2020 NFL DRAFT WIDE RECEIVER TIERS

[Deputy Nutz]

Why Tiers?
Player tiers is a way to group players at the same position with similar production. Putting players into tiers could be one of the most useful techniques used to understand player value. Tiers give you a sense of how many players are available for a particular position, and at what level. Simply put I am not splitting hairs on how I think is better or high ranked.

Wide Receiver Tiers - After reading about 100 analysis on receivers the biggest negative you will always see is how they handle press coverage. I find it ironic as you also see negatives on the players at the corners spot for not being able to play press at the college level. Anyways, all rookies will basically struggle against press their rookie year. The ones that figure it out the fastest will have the best chance to contribute in a big way in 2020.

Tier 1: The Elites - First round of the 2020 Draft.
I had a few guys in this tier last year that fell into the second round, but regardless this group in 2019 produced in the NFL. The 2020 group has remained pretty consistent since the college football season ended. After the draft I was waiting for someone to jump into this tier.

Henry Ruggs III Alabama, 5’11” 188 - He offers something that nobody else in this tier or any other tier has, and that is elite, top of the food chain speed. He doesn’t have the frame or size of some but he is explosive with a 42” vertical jump at the Combine. What I like about Ruggs is his ability to use his speed on crossing routes by creating the separation in man coverage and by also out running the zone across the middle of the field. Large hands are on display while catching the ball in traffic and away from his body. Ruggs will have to get better fighting off press coverage and breaking free of physical corners.

CeeDee Lamb Oklahoma, 6’2” 198 - Lamb could be the complete package in the NFL. Some might think he will slip in the draft because of his average 40 time, but in reality it shouldn’t impact his status as one of the elite receivers in this draft. He is a threat at all three receiver positions and has the experience and has crafted his skills to attack all levels of the football field. He does a good job at working back to the QB on broken plays and finding the soft spots in the zone. Lamb could struggle adjusting to an NFL offense and playing against the elite of the elites in the NFL, as the Big 12 is not known for defense. He will have to refine his game and take away the wasted motion in his route running.

Jerry Jeudy Alabama 6’1” 193 - Jeudy is a polished receiver that works his routes extremely well, to the point where he is at the top of this draft class in his ability to run all his routes with polish and speed. Quick acceleration helps him create seperation from even the best college corners. Juedy could become a viable All Pro type receiver at the next level if he adds some muscle mass to his frame while keeping his quickness. If Jeudy improves his ability to go after deep balls he should be an elite threat at every level of the field.

Justin Jefferson LSU 6’2” 202 - Better than the rest at contested catches and in 50/50 balls than the other three receivers, but might not be as polish of a route runner as the others in the top tier. It might be a stretch to list Jefferson in the top tier but his production in his last year at LSU can’t be overlooked. The all out spread attack that LSU implemented this year might have been part of his offensive explosion. His combine answered some questions about his athletic ability and speed.

[Deputy Nutz]

Tier 2 - Possible 1st round through second round in 2020 NFL Draft. This group has it’s base in consistency. These are quality kids that might just be lacking either a touch of that elite athleticism or production to be considered a sure fire first round pick.

Denzel Mims Baylor, 6’3” 205 - One of the most dynamic and biggest athletes at the wide receiver position in this draft. Mims has in most scenarios moved himself into the first with a fantastic combine. The biggest question mark of Mims’s game is the offense that he played in at Baylor. He caught a lot of quick screens and jailbreak screens in this offense where they utilized Mims big play ability in open space. He has the size, speed and jumping ability to attack defensive backs and put them in conflict. Mims could be more physical with defensive backs and with contested catches, he needs to be more sudden off the snap and get into his routes faster with more urgency. Watching film of Mims I don’t necessarily agree with the NFL.com analysis on his hands and drops of contested throws.

Jalen Reagor TCU, 5’11” 205 - Reagor’s combine neither helped him or hurt him as his 40 time was above average, his vertical jump was elite, and his agility drills were below average. Stocky receiver that works hard to make plays for himself. Comparisons to Deebo Samuels are accurate when he has the ball in his hands. He has the route running ability and the athletic ability to attack the whole field. At times he needs to work on his composure, and like most college receivers he will need to work on defeating press coverage more consistency.

Laviska Shenault Colorado 6’1” 227 - Shenault is built thick and although never expected to run a blazing 40 I think teams still want a receiver his size running in the 4.4s for the forty if they are going to extend a first round pick on a player. He will use his size to assault defensive backs that press him, but at times he will get careless. Shenault needs to be better with his route running and double moves. He is one of the top receivers in this class with attacking the ball in 50/50 situations, and making tough catches. He will sell out for passes, and when trying to gain extra yards with the ball in his hands. Needs to get better as a blocker.

Donovan Peoples-Jones Michigan 6’2” 212 - Probably the best overall athlete in this class especially when you consider his size and weight. His explosiveness was on hand at the combine when he jumped 44.5 inches in the vertical and 139 inches in the broad jump. Much like the current trend of Michigan players he has the physical traits and athleticism that should indicate dominance at the college level, but the production and play on the field never materialize. Peoples-Jones can use the lack of identity of the Wolverines’ offense as a legit reason why his production wasn’t higher, but he has some ownership in it all being the athlete that he is. He could very easily be viewed as the offensive version of Rashan Gary. Because of his successful combine he will be drafted higher than he probably should be.

[Deputy Nutz]

Tier 3 - These are guys that have an outside chance of being a 1st round pick, but could also be early to mid 3rd round picks. Receiver is a deep group and teams will try to wait on talent as the picks go past.

Micheal Pittman USC, 6’4” 223 - Big framed receiver that is an easy target for QBs. I think he showed a little more than just being a possession receiver at the next level with a very solid 4.52 in the forty. For a player his size that is more than an adequate number. His agility scores were also very good especially for a player his size. He caught over 100 balls in his last season so you know that he has viable hands. Pittman does a nice going in and out of breaks, he seems to know how to work zone coverages to find openings. Also, he doesn’t need separation to get open. Even at 6 '4 `` 223 pounds I would like to see him as a more physical receiver with press coverage. Pittman could easily be a 1st round draft pick as the end of April rolls around.

Brandon Aiyuk ASU, 6’ 205 - highly productive at ASU based on utilizing his athleticism. He does need to get better at understanding the basics of running routes, even though he is dynamic on his cuts and breaks. Currently I would rate him as an above average athlete, but just an average skill receiver. He will need work to make a significant impact as a rookie in 2020.

Tee Higgins Clemson 6’4” 216 - Higgins is built like a wingman on the basketball court, he is long and is at his best when he needs to go up and catch the ball. He is a glider and long strider. He is the type of receiver that lacks a bit of polish because he has never had to be perfect to dominate a game. His biggest issue is that for his size he can get pushed around and beat up by physical corners. He was worked over quite a bit by the Ohio St defense in the playoff game. He also didn’t run at the combine or work out.

KJ Hamler Penn St. 5’9”178 - A bit heavier than what was thought. Still not many receivers dominate the game at 5’9” 178 pounds and it will be a negative he can’t overcome. Also, not working out at the combine leaves a bunch of unanswered questions about his speed and quickness which he will most definitely need to rely on if he will contribute at the next level. He is a fiesty downfield blocker. His film shows his quickness in his route running and his stops and starts. Struggles to gain separation on deeper routes and bigger defensive backs can shield him from the ball.

Chase Claypool Notre Dame, 6’4” 238 - The guy is built like a tight end but showed the speed of an elite receiver running a 4.42 at the combine. He offers a lot to a team that needs a downfield threat that can physically dominate 50/50 balls, a receiver that will contribute right away to special teams, and maybe most important will become a dominant blocker in the NFL. At times he will struggle getting in and out of breaks with efficiency, and struggles with being a natural pass catcher.

Van Jefferson Florida 6’1” 200 - He did not run at the combine, but it will be his consistency and attention to detail that will make him an impactful player at the next level. He is competitive and a son of a former NFL receiver and current NFL coach. Jefferson relies on technique to catch passes and create separation from defensive backs. It will be interesting to see his pro day as he is relatively old at 24 years old for a rookie.

[Deputy Nutz]

Tier 4
I think there are some diamonds in this tier but teams will have to start risking mid round draft picks on guys with questionable combine numbers, or a lack of production on the field. Some of these guys have not run at the combine so after their pro day they could easily move up a tier or two. There might a one or two second round draft picks in this group, but in reality they are all late day 2 picks to day 3 picks.

Devin Duvernay Texas, 5’10” 200 - Fantastic athlete with a 4.39 forty yard dash. The production is also there as he caught 103 balls for over 1300 yards as a senior. Why is he in Tier 4? It is what happens when Duvernay doesn’t have the ball in his hands as he is not going to win consistently enough on contested passes, and isn’t a great route runner. He will disappear on film if the offense isn’t purposively working on getting him the football.

Tyler Johnson Minnesota, 6’1” 205 - one word to describe Johnson would be ''smooth ``. Johnson is a typical grinder who lacks that explosiveness on film, but has solid hands especially in traffic. He is a leader, who will go over the middle and sacrifice himself for his teammates. Johnson has really good body control, but he will lack the elite athleticism that will make him a priority in earlier rounds. He did not run at the combine.

Quez Watkins Southern Miss, 5’10” 185 - The guy can fly, he ran a 4.35 at the combine which is always numbers you want from the position, but the questions start to come into play when you look at his agility numbers which were below average at the combine. This usually leads to having tight hips and in some cases a lack of flexibility throughout the body. He does a decent job of working vertically on his routes, and working deep crosses and posts. Watkins biggest inconsistency is getting off of press coverage.

Antonio Gandy-Golden Liberty, 6’4” 223 - Big strong receiver that might end up making the transition to tight end hybrid type player. His speed and agility are below average for the position, but that doesn’t stop him from being a big play threat. His lack of competition playing mid major ball will be a concern from some scouts, but I see no real issues with his route running abilities, seems to put all the little extras into his cuts and breaks that you like to see. Scouts will say he is a work in progress because he is coming from a small school.

John Hightower Boise St. 5’10” 185 - All the combine numbers are above average, and when he is in clean air he is a real threat to be a game breaker. His trouble starts when he has to compete for 50/50 balls. He needs to get stronger, and do a better job tracking the ball.

Quartney Davis Texas A&M 5’10” 201 - Slot like receiver with a good build but his slightly below average combine didn’t do him any favors. Production at A&M wasn’t great. He has quality hands especially in traffic and he does a nice job of turning his shoulders up field and finding green grass after the catch.

Quintez Cephus Wisconsin 6’1” 202 - Big strong receiver that made some of the toughest contested catches in college football last year. Much as been made over his legal situation in 2018, but Cephus proved his innocence for hyped up sexual assault charges. Cephus’s biggest concern is his truly poor 40 time at the combine which if he can’t improve on a 4.73 at his pro day he might seriously go on drafted. Cephus is an aggressive blocker in the run game, an above average route runner, and although he will have an occasional drop his hands are solid.


Isaiah Hodges Oregon St. 6’4” 210 - Big body receiver that has above average ball skills and will attempt to high point the football. He has good instincts and his route running is also NFL caliber, but he lacks the elite speed to be a top tier draft pick, but for a player that 6’4” he has above average agility with 7.01 three cone, and 4.12 short shuttle.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

What the fuck? 4.73? That's even slower than the Sloth.

[SudsMcBucky]

What the fuck? 4.73? That's even slower than the Sloth.

Right on que.

[mraynrand]

Right on que.

Not really. He's a little slow on this one - 4.73 slow. Cephus' 40 time has been reported in other threads.

[mraynrand]

Cephus is a rich man's Geronimo Allison.

[mraynrand]

Why Teers?


https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.startrek.com%2Fsites%2Fdefaul t%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Fcontent_full%2Fpublic%2Fimage s%2F2019-07%2F1651cf0d2f737d7adeab84d339dbabd3.jpg%3Fitok%3 Dbqtpi3Ei&f=1&nofb=1

Maab Deep

[mraynrand]

Ruggs is being talked up as the Tyreek Hill of the draft. Some are even speculating he might fall to New Orleans. But they already have their Hill to die for/on.

[run pMc]

Cephus is a rich man's Geronimo Allison.

LOL

[run pMc]

Nutz - thanks for putting this together. I have to say I agree with you re: use of tiers.
Generally agree with your assessments of the players and their placement in the tiers, although I think a few of them will move up/down based on pro days, rumors, scheme fits, etc. Tier 3 is a tricky one because as you say some could be R1 picks but could also last into R3.

I also think this is a deep enough WR draft where you could have a sizeable Tier 5 for players who will should drafted but only on Day 3.

[texaspackerbacker]

It's hard to believe four WRs will be drafted ahead of the Packers at 30. Thus, we might be able to get one of the top tier - maybe Ruggs. I really would not want the Packers to use a first round pick on the other three. I think my guy, Duvernay, ought to be in a higher tier than 4. Hopefully we could get him about the 3rd round - if teams see him as low as Nutz sees him.

[hoosier]

Turdelle Owens was the best ever at handling press coverage.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2008/01/14/sports/14dallas.1.190.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale

[mraynrand]

Turdelle Owens was the best ever at handling press coverage.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2008/01/14/sports/14dallas.1.190.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale

He was the 'Woodbuck' of wide receivers - he made the press watch as he did his crunches.

[Deputy Nutz]

It's hard to believe four WRs will be drafted ahead of the Packers at 30. Thus, we might be able to get one of the top tier - maybe Ruggs. I really would not want the Packers to use a first round pick on the other three. I think my guy, Duvernay, ought to be in a higher tier than 4. Hopefully we could get him about the 3rd round - if teams see him as low as Nutz sees him.

Tier 4 is still a pretty good group of receivers. I honestly could have put Duvernay in Tier 3, but I would like to see more effort into blocking, especially how much of a competitor he is. I absolutely love this guy after the catch.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Not really. He's a little slow on this one - 4.73 slow. Cephus' 40 time has been reported in other threads.

Sorry for being clueless, for, I was a bit busy debunking Tex and 31 in FYI. And I don't start researching for my annual thread, "My Mastery Mockery of a Draft" til free agency starts.

4.73 would be a fast time for Josh Jones, the Yokozuna making Harrell hard, but that's slow as fuck for a WR. Avoid Cephus like the plague.

Btw, Suds, I was gonna joke about Cephus' rape ordeal. However, just watched "Brian Banks" on the Hulu. So I won't. Good flick.

[GB-Brandon]

Cephus is a rich man's Geronimo Allison.

Which would be an improvement overall.

[Deputy Nutz]

Ruggs is being talked up as the Tyreek Hill of the draft. Some are even speculating he might fall to New Orleans. But they already have their Hill to die for/on.

He is my top receiver in this draft. He is bigger than Hill and timed faster in the 40.

[texaspackerbacker]

He is my top receiver in this draft. He is bigger than Hill and timed faster in the 40.

I agree with you on that, and at the same time, I suspect your other 3 tier one WRs will go earlier, so hopefully he ends up a Packer.

I should have said my earlier post, Nutz, I also am thankful for the work you put in with these position group rankings. It's at least as good as what people do for pay.

[yetisnowman]

Ruggs will go top 20. Unpopular opinion. But I say do what it takes to get him. We suck at drafting defense anyway, throw some darts in the middle rounds like we
do every year regardless. Just use capital to get an elite caliber playmaker that has refined skills. I know this has a .07% chance of happening. We'll end up getting a mediocre defender and a decent wideout with the first 2 picks instead of trying to parlay something into an actual difference maker.

[SudsMcBucky]

Sorry for being clueless, for, I was a bit busy debunking Tex and 31 in FYI. And I don't start researching for my annual thread, "My Mastery Mockery of a Draft" til free agency starts.

4.73 would be a fast time for Josh Jones, the Yokozuna making Harrell hard, but that's slow as fuck for a WR. Avoid Cephus like the plague.

Btw, Suds, I was gonna joke about Cephus' rape ordeal. However, just watched "Brian Banks" on the Hulu. So I won't. Good flick.

Yeah, that was a great movie. Horrible ordeal he went through. Awesome ending, though.

[pbmax]

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.startrek.com%2Fsites%2Fdefaul t%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Fcontent_full%2Fpublic%2Fimage s%2F2019-07%2F1651cf0d2f737d7adeab84d339dbabd3.jpg%3Fitok%3 Dbqtpi3Ei&f=1&nofb=1

Maab Deep

Scarlett made a dress from drapes.

That guy made a tunic out of a pillow cover.

[RashanGary]

I read all of that. Good year to need a wr. Little bit of everything

[mraynrand]

Scarlett made a dress from drapes.

That guy made a tunic out of a pillow cover.

Trek had to find way to "cut corners" for those high cost special effects:

http://1125996089.rsc.cdn77.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/lincolnstartrek.jpg?w=300

Sulu: "Captain, WTF?"

[Deputy Nutz]

Even with Cephus running a 4.56 at his pro day, I don't see him moving up any of the tiers. I could see him moving up into the top of tier 4. Tier 4 should have guys drafted at the end or round two with most of them being drafted no later than round 4

[call_me_ishmael]

I would be shocked if Cephus is drafted before the third day. I bet he's a round 5 pick. 4.56 is still not exactly fast. I think he could be a great value for somebody. Hopefully it's us.

[Joemailman]

I don't see him going later than early-mid 4th round. For teams entering Day 3 looking for a WR, he should be near the top of the list. That is, if he isn't taken in the 3rd round.

[run pMc]

I think 3rd round is high for Cephus. He's a Day 3 pick for me. I'd put him in the R4-6 range depending on the team and how the draft plays out.

If you believe draft network's board/rankings, he's the 18th WR, and 127th ranked player as of today (IIRC he's moved around a lot, between ~106 and 170). Some team might absolutely fall in love with him and take him R3 thinking he's Anquan Boldin; some teams might look at him and think he's Laquon Treadwell with baggage.

I wouldn't be sad if Gute took a R5 flyer on him, but a R3 is too rich for me. There will likely be better players available at that point. He's definitely draftable, but he's not a top-100 pick in this draft IMO.

[Deputy Nutz]

Cephus's 2019 film is really good.
Jeff Okudah says has the best receiver he went up against this year.
I am not sure where Cephus goes, but I would be surprised if he goes before Round 3, and I would be surprised if he lasts until the 5th round.

[smuggler]

He was the 'Woodbuck' of wide receivers - he made the press watch as he did his crunches.

What's woody up to nowadays?

[wist43]

Cephus's 2019 film is really good.
Jeff Okudah says has the best receiver he went up against this year.
I am not sure where Cephus goes, but I would be surprised if he goes before Round 3, and I would be surprised if he lasts until the 5th round.

And I wouldn't be surprised if he goes undrafted.

Remember all the talk about Laquan Treadwell being a possible top 5 pick?? Ran a 4.63 at his pro day. The Vikings took him at 23 - and he really should have been no more than a late round guy.

He hasn't done anything in the pros, and his lack of speed is very noticeable.

Cephus is a late round flyer at best. No pun intended ;)

[Bretsky]

And I wouldn't be surprised if he goes undrafted.

Remember all the talk about Laquan Treadwell being a possible top 5 pick?? Ran a 4.63 at his pro day. The Vikings took him at 23 - and he really should have been no more than a late round guy.

He hasn't done anything in the pros, and his lack of speed is very noticeable.

Cephus is a late round flyer at best. No pun intended ;)


Badger hater :)
How did TJ Watt turn out ?

[Bretsky]

Cephus's 2019 film is really good.
Jeff Okudah says has the best receiver he went up against this year.
I am not sure where Cephus goes, but I would be surprised if he goes before Round 3, and I would be surprised if he lasts until the 5th round.


I would be guessing early round four to early round five
Those that get too connected to the initial 40 are ignoring the film/production

[wist43]

Badger hater :)
How did TJ Watt turn out ?

1 guy turns out, and suddenly they're all studs again, lol :D

[Bretsky]

1 guy turns out, and suddenly they're all studs again, lol :D

Melvin; I can keep going if ya want

[smuggler]

Melvin; I can keep going if ya want

Meh. Not worth a 15th overall pick. Better example would be Ramczyk.

[Bretsky]

Meh. Not worth a 15th overall pick. Better example would be Ramczyk.


My memory makes me think Wisty hates every Badger; I'm just getting ready to list all of the successful ones :))

[ThunderDan]

How about Joe Thomas? Frederick for the Cowgirls? Al Toon? Troy Vincent?

[wist43]

OL doesn't count - coz I'm all onboard with Wisconsin producing legit NFL OL.

I liked Vincent, Toon, some of the RB's.

Absolutely don't trust defensive players though.

That said, I'd really like to like Zach Baun, but he played at Wisconsin!! How can I??Lol...

[wist43]

Becoming more and more convinced that Mims will be long gone by pick 30 :(

He's my #1 get at this point.

I've warmed up to Reagor and Aiyuk... think Jefferson might be available at 30 now too.

[ThunderDan]

Becoming more and more convinced that Mims will be long gone by pick 30 :(

He's my #1 get at this point.

I've warmed up to Reagor and Aiyuk... think Jefferson might be available at 30 now too.

One of those will be available and I wouldn’t be surprise at Mims. Too many good WR in this draft and too many teams with holes at different positions. There will be WRs who go in the 3rd round this year who would be late 1st round/early 2nd round in most years.

[Deputy Nutz]

I like the tier 4 more than any other tier in this draft. I think there is a lot of possible production out of the tier 4 guys with a lot of high upside for the middle of the draft type value

[GB-Brandon]

My thinking is you have D. Adams who is a bigger bodied receiver. They went out and signed a huge receiver in Funches. Lazard is a young, huge receiver who is developing. For me, all this points to them targeting a smaller explosive type in the draft.

Reagor or Aiyuk just make too much sense. LaFluer’s scheme needs some guys like this to be optimal.

[texaspackerbacker]

I agree, but Nutz is right too about those Tier 4 guys - several nice burners in there including my guy, Duvernay.

[pbmax]

My thinking is you have D. Adams who is a bigger bodied receiver. They went out and signed a huge receiver in Funches. Lazard is a young, huge receiver who is developing. For me, all this points to them targeting a smaller explosive type in the draft.

Reagor or Aiyuk just make too much sense. LaFluer’s scheme needs some guys like this to be optimal.

Aiyuk got compared to Greg Jennings yesterday in McGinn's column, so I automatically like him. But Gute doesn't seem to have backed off wanting big receivers even if his coach isn't publicly insisting. I think its obvious the big slot didn't work last year, but I'd be hard pressed to convince anyone it was the plan and not the talent.

But they also aren't going to reveal any changes to the plan before the draft.

So maybe this happens. La Fleur has had smaller receivers before.

[Deputy Nutz]

Big slots are a bonus in the run game. Kumerow was a good inline blocker along with Lazard.

Big framed receivers
top of second day of draft guys:

Chase Claypool Notre Dame 6'4" 238 - Super athletic for size

Micheal Pittman USC 6'4" 223 - he was more of an outside guy at USC and was a willing blocker on the edge.

Antonio Gibson Memphis 6'0" 228 - sub 4.4 guy with some thickness. He is a jack of all trades as he played lined up in the slot and at running back, one year of production that was huge as he had 7 TDs of 40 yards or more.

Bryan Edwards South Carolina 6'3" 212 - didn't run at the combine and didn't get his pro day in. He had good production at South Carolina. Has the ability in the run game but needs to put forth a better consistent effort.

Other mid round/late round players

Quintez Cephus 6'1" 202 - Probably the smallest guy on this list, but we know he had the most reps @ 225 and he played in the Badgers run heavy offense, he is one of the better blockers in this class of receiver

Juan Jennings Tennessee 6'3" 215 - yeah he is slow and he is slow on film, but he blocks from the slot position and he makes plays. Those skills may get him into a camp.

Antonio Golde-Gandy Liberty 6'4" 223 - big dude that hasn't played a lot in the slot but has the frame that makes you think he could sort of play as a y-off or closer to the end man on the line of scrimmage.

[GB-Brandon]

Aiyuk got compared to Greg Jennings yesterday in McGinn's column, so I automatically like him. But Gute doesn't seem to have backed off wanting big receivers even if his coach isn't publicly insisting. I think its obvious the big slot didn't work last year, but I'd be hard pressed to convince anyone it was the plan and not the talent.

But they also aren't going to reveal any changes to the plan before the draft.

So maybe this happens. La Fleur has had smaller receivers before.


Last year I wanted them to Target Deebo Samuel or Parris Campbell. I was completely disappointed.

This year I got Aiyuk and Reagor. If it’s not now then it’s probably never.

[GB-Brandon]

Big slots are a bonus in the run game. Kumerow was a good inline blocker along with Lazard.

Big framed receivers
top of second day of draft guys:

Chase Claypool Notre Dame 6'4" 238 - Super athletic for size

Micheal Pittman USC 6'4" 223 - he was more of an outside guy at USC and was a willing blocker on the edge.

Antonio Gibson Memphis 6'0" 228 - sub 4.4 guy with some thickness. He is a jack of all trades as he played lined up in the slot and at running back, one year of production that was huge as he had 7 TDs of 40 yards or more.

Bryan Edwards South Carolina 6'3" 212 - didn't run at the combine and didn't get his pro day in. He had good production at South Carolina. Has the ability in the run game but needs to put forth a better consistent effort.

Other mid round/late round players

Quintez Cephus 6'1" 202 - Probably the smallest guy on this list, but we know he had the most reps @ 225 and he played in the Badgers run heavy offense, he is one of the better blockers in this class of receiver

Juan Jennings Tennessee 6'3" 215 - yeah he is slow and he is slow on film, but he blocks from the slot position and he makes plays. Those skills may get him into a camp.

Antonio Golde-Gandy Liberty 6'4" 223 - big dude that hasn't played a lot in the slot but has the frame that makes you think he could sort of play as a y-off or closer to the end man on the line of scrimmage.

Neither could get consistent “SEPARATION” in the passing game.

I’ve seen Claypool thrown around out there going to us in 1st or 2nd. I would absolutely hate that pick. We just signed Funches and it makes zero sense.

Cephus on day 3 would work.

Edit: I like Edwards too.

[Deputy Nutz]

I was talking about the strengths of the receivers and why the Packers used them. I fully recognize they can't get regular separation, probably because they were street free agents, and are not overly talented receivers. Lazard was actually a high profile recruit out of high school, so he has some sneaky athleticism, he just isn't a burner.

Funches isn't a long term solution to the Packers receiving woes. I am not a proponent of the Packers drafting anyone. The Packers are going to draft who they think is the best fit and need and then you sit back and show patients and really look to reevaluate after year three.

[GB-Brandon]

I was talking about the strengths of the receivers and why the Packers used them. I fully recognize they can't get regular separation, probably because they were street free agents, and are not overly talented receivers. Lazard was actually a high profile recruit out of high school, so he has some sneaky athleticism, he just isn't a burner.

Funches isn't a long term solution to the Packers receiving woes. I am not a proponent of the Packers drafting anyone. The Packers are going to draft who they think is the best fit and need and then you sit back and show patients and really look to reevaluate after year three.

Been there and done that with:

J’’momma Moore
MVS
G. Allison
Jeff Janis
Jarred Abbrederis
ESB
Trevor Davis
DeAngelo Yancy
Kevin Dorsey
Charles Johnson

Who am I missing?

This is what happens when you build a receiving Corp with “tier 4” prospects which is a damn shame when you have a generational talent at QB.

[Deputy Nutz]

I have been hearing the same fan complaints for the past 25 years.

[Deputy Nutz]

Been there and done that with:

J’’momma Moore never made it to year 2
MVS Going into his 3rd year, Adams had a very tough 2nd year with Packer fans wanting to cut him
G. Allison Free agent signing, I wouldn't call him a tier 4 guy, and the amount of production you got out of him I would consider a plus
Jeff Janis Special teams demon, that is why he was on the roster
Jarred Abbrederis wasn't signed to be a #1 or #2. Stepped up when Packers receiving core was decimated due to injury
ESB Going into year 3
Trevor Davis Never liked him, but he was a late rounder? What do you want?
DeAngelo Yancy
Kevin Dorsey
Charles Johnson

Who am I missing?

This is what happens when you build a receiving Corp with “tier 4” prospects which is a damn shame when you have a generational talent at QB.

Donald Driver, you missed him. He is the Packers all time leading receiver and happened to be a 7th round pick.

[GB-Brandon]

Donald Driver, you missed him. He is the Packers all time leading receiver and happened to be a 7th round pick.

So we’re basically 1 for 15 and that hit was over 10 years ago. Not the odds I like. It hasn’t worked over the long haul. Sure, if you scratch off enough lotto tickets you will eventually hit a winner. The Packers need too quit shopping at K-Mart for WR’s and it’s almost too late.

You do know what the definition of insanity is right?

[GB-Brandon]

Donald Driver, you missed him. He is the Packers all time leading receiver and happened to be a 7th round pick.

Don’t forget the mighty Jarrett Boykin, Jake Kummerow or the “Next Randall Cobb”(Ty Montgomery) who ended up playing RB.

The bottom line is they haven’t produced Sh*t since drafting Adams in the second round.

Jordy- 2nd Round
Cobb- 2nd Round
Jennings 2nd Round
JJ - 3rd round
Jevon Walker- 1st round
Sterling Sharpe- 1st round

I know what group I like. This isn’t rocket science.

[pbmax]

How quickly everyone forgets about Craig Bragg.

[GB-Brandon]

How quickly everyone forgets about Craig Bragg.

The list of “mediocrity” of “tier 4 receivers” is so long it’s easy to forget one here and there.

[Deputy Nutz]

So we’re basically 1 for 15 and that hit was over 10 years ago. Not the odds I like. It hasn’t worked over the long haul. Sure, if you scratch off enough lotto tickets you will eventually hit a winner. The Packers need too quit shopping at K-Mart for WR’s and it’s almost too late.

You do know what the definition of insanity is right?

Making the playoffs just about ever year? Is that your definition of insanity? What's your expectation? The Packers having 5 first round draft picks at wide receiver? I don't think the Packers or any other organization skip positional need because they only want to draft the position later in the draft, most likely their isn't a prospect rated high enough to draft early.

I am evaluating the draft, not the Packers. If you are so good at evaluating talent at wide receiver please tell me why Jalen Reagor is so much better than Quartney Davis or Devin Duvernay? Go ahead and watch all the game tape on them, don't read any other write ups, just watch film and tell me why one player is so highly valued over another one? I am not a full time scout, I have my reasons why I rate him two tiers higher, but truly we have very little room to decipher compared to a full time scout. Is Reagor a better value in the first round than Duvernay or Davis in the 3rd or 4th round? Please explain it to me?

[GB-Brandon]

“Malachi Dupre” - People were so so excited about this one although it didn’t last too long.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I guess I don't understand the disconnect. He only has like 15 receivers in his top three tiers, so the tier four he is talking about are a lot of 3rd and 4th rounders (in a very deep WR draft)--not late round flyers. Think James Jones, not Malachi Dupre. There are guys he has listed in that tier that I don't like that high though.

[GB-Brandon]

Making the playoffs just about ever year? Is that your definition of insanity? What's your expectation? The Packers having 5 first round draft picks at wide receiver? I don't think the Packers or any other organization skip positional need because they only want to draft the position later in the draft, most likely their isn't a prospect rated high enough to draft early.

I am evaluating the draft, not the Packers. If you are so good at evaluating talent at wide receiver please tell me why Jalen Reagor is so much better than Quartney Davis or Devin Duvernay? Go ahead and watch all the game tape on them, don't read any other write ups, just watch film and tell me why one player is so highly valued over another one? I am not a full time scout, I have my reasons why I rate him two tiers higher, but truly we have very little room to decipher compared to a full time scout. Is Reagor a better value in the first round than Duvernay or Davis in the 3rd or 4th round? Please explain it to me?

Please. This organization was making the playoffs for several years because Aaron Rodgers was playing at a “Michael Jordan Level” and was covering up all the WARTS!!!!! Everyone took it for granted. The second Rodgers fell off that level this whole thing stalled with the overall MEDIOCRE weapons they have given him being EXPOSED.

My issue has been this infatuation of drafting db’s high just about every year with little to zero overall improvement year after year. We finally have an adequate secondary 10 high draft picks later. Just a plethora of resources purged. Then they get up there and drop their pants with the 12th pick of the draft for Rashan Gary(who is a 4-3 DE) and try to make him a 3-4 OLB. Yeah it’s “INSANE”. Remember Datone Jones?

“NEVER LEAVE THE GAME IN THE HANDS OF DB’s!!!!!!!”

The players have been there.

I advocated for Joe Mixon- PASS

I advocated for Courtland Sutton and Calvin Ridley -PASS

I advocated for DK Metcalf, Deebo Samuel or Parris Campbell - PASS

Could you imagine having these guys now?

This is just the last few years. I don’t want to hear that talented players weren’t there. The Packers went from valuing the WR position with the list of picks they made that I provided to making it an afterthought. That’s the bottom line.

Yes i value Reagor higher. He is a very very talented player that I project as a “GAME CHANGER” for this offense. He has all the tools needed for what this offense and scheme needs. Doesn’t take a “high level scout” to figure it out.

Lastly my expectations are “Lombardi’s”. It’s called “Titletown” for a reason and it’s not “2nd place”

[GB-Brandon]

I guess I don't understand the disconnect. He only has like 15 receivers in his top three tiers, so the tier four he is talking about are a lot of 3rd and 4th rounders (in a very deep WR draft)--not late round flyers. Think James Jones, not Malachi Dupre. There are guys he has listed in that tier that I don't like that high though.

I want “Tier 1”

[Deputy Nutz]

I think all the tier one guys will be gone by the time the Packers pick.

I would tend to agree with you about Dk Metcalf, Debo Samuel, and Paris Campbell. I had Campbell rated pretty high last year as a possible first round pick. To bad he got injured and had zero production last year, mean while his college teammate McLauren was draft much much later and had over 900 yards receiving and 7 touchdowns.

Debo Samuel was not a tier one guy last year, I think he was tier 2 or tier 3.

My reference to tier 4 was simply how deep the receiver class was this year. You have 15 guys in 4 tiers and reality some are much much closer.

Also I am not sure how old you are Brandy, but the reality is the Packers went decades with losing after Lombardi. Along the way I think the franchise as a whole decided that to be financially successful in the smallest market in professional sports they needed to win consistently. I don't think they have ever really considered to make one big push because of Rodgers or Favre. The reality is, it is a really good franchise one of the top 5 in the NFL in terms of winning percentage and championships, but they are not the New England Patriots under the "Hoodie Genius", and those are just the facts. You want a comparison, The Packers and the Steelers are a good comparison.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I was looking at more numbers from my draft spreadsheets. There was only one player in those four drafts who ran slower than 4.57 40 that amounted to anything. Michael Thomas ran 4.57. Davante Adams ran 4.56. Jarvis Landry ran a friggin' 4.77, but he had to slip or something. He's not that slow. That 4.57 is about the cutoff. I'm not even looking for stars. In one year Allen Lazard ran 4.55. Nobody who ran slower amounted to much. Below are the guys who ran slower that year. Guys who are slower than that have a tough time making it. Unfortunately, that makes the odds long for Gandy-Golden (my guy) and Cephus (everbody else's guy) making it.

Jaleel Scott
Korey Robertson
Steven Mitchell
Dylan Cantrell
J'Mon Moore
Deontay Burnett
Marcell Ateman
Simmie Cobbs
Jake Wieneke
Auden Tate
Darren Carrington
Cam Phillips
Tavares Martin

[HarveyWallbangers]

The guys who ran slower than 4.57 40 in 2014-2016 (looks like I missed Allen Robinson at 4.60 in 2014 as another slow guy who made it):

Devon Cajuste
Demarcus Robinson
Jalin Marshall
Pharoh Cooper
Rashard Higgins
Geronimo Allison
Nelson Spruce
Kenny Lawler
Laquon Treadwell
Cayleb Jones
Bralon Addison
Demarcus Ayers
D'haquille Williams
De'Runnya Wilson
Tony Lippett
Austin Hill
Rannell Hall
Josh Harper
Vince Mayle
Allen Robinson
Jeremy Butler
Kelvin Benjamin
Ryan Grant
Cody Hoffman
Jarvis Landry

[HarveyWallbangers]

Top players in each class:

2014

Brandin Cooks 4.33
Sammy Watkins 4.43
Odell Beckham 4.43
Mike Evans 4.53
Davante Adams 4.56
Allen Robinson 4.60

2015

Tyler Lockett 4.40
Amari Cooper 4.42
DeVante Parker 4.45
Stefon Diggs 4.46
Darren Waller 4.46 (converted to TE)

2016

Tyreek Hill 4.29 (Pro Day)
Will Fuller 4.32
Robbie Anderson 4.38 (Pro Day)
Tyler Boyd 4.54
Michael Thomas 4.57

2018

D.J. Chark 4.34
D.J. Moore 4.42
Calvin Ridley 4.43
Michael Gallup 4.51
Courtland Sutton 4.54

I might be the only one that finds these things interesting. :)

[HarveyWallbangers]

This reminds me that I was a big Michael Gallup guy. Consensus #10 WR that year. Projected to go round 3. I had him as #4 WR and a second round grade.

1 D.J. Moore
2 Calvin Ridley
3 Courtland Sutton
4 Michael Gallup
5 D.J. Chark
6 Christian Kirk

[GB-Brandon]

I think all the tier one guys will be gone by the time the Packers pick.

I would tend to agree with you about Dk Metcalf, Debo Samuel, and Paris Campbell. I had Campbell rated pretty high last year as a possible first round pick. To bad he got injured and had zero production last year, mean while his college teammate McLauren was draft much much later and had over 900 yards receiving and 7 touchdowns.

Debo Samuel was not a tier one guy last year, I think he was tier 2 or tier 3.

My reference to tier 4 was simply how deep the receiver class was this year. You have 15 guys in 4 tiers and reality some are much much closer.

Also I am not sure how old you are Brandy, but the reality is the Packers went decades with losing after Lombardi. Along the way I think the franchise as a whole decided that to be financially successful in the smallest market in professional sports they needed to win consistently. I don't think they have ever really considered to make one big push because of Rodgers or Favre. The reality is, it is a really good franchise one of the top 5 in the NFL in terms of winning percentage and championships, but they are not the New England Patriots under the "Hoodie Genius", and those are just the facts. You want a comparison, The Packers and the Steelers are a good comparison.

Yeah, winning the Super Bowl every year isn’t realistic but we have let at least a couple slip away. I was around in the Lynn Dickey days sitting on my grandpa’s lap as he yelled at the tv so I get it. The Packers are a successful organization overall no doubt. Titletown District is really coming together.

My thing is when we had Rodgers in his prime we could of racked some more up. Major opportunity was lost and I hope it isn’t too late. Being a small franchise has nothing to do with drafting top tier talent receivers. I live here about 6 blocks from the stadium and all I hear is “Why Don’t We Get Rodgers More Weapons!!!” I sat at a bar that emptied out after they drafted Rashan Gary surrounded by BOO’S!!!!. I’m well aware of the temperature of the city. We want a CHAMPIONSHIP!!!! People miss regular Lambeau Leaps on Sunday afternoon. Instead it appears the front office would rather put square pegs in round holes and pray for the best. THAT’S NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!

It’s 2020 so time to get with the program. Score! Score! Score! We have a defense that can play with the lead and get some pressure and get some turnovers. We need to put this OFFENSIVE MACHINE back together and time is of the urgency.

I really believed Thompson was gonna take a chance on Mixon. He was a “Top 10 Talent”. The small city of Green Bay would of been the perfect for him. He has been nothing but a stand up citizen since being a pro in Cincinnati. Mixon’s skill set could of flourished with AR12.

I prayed almost every night they would of drafted Courtland Sutton. Instead they drafted a few wannabee’s in MVS, ESB and Moore.

I WANTED Parris Campbell so damn bad. I’m right with you on your evaluation of him. I still believe he can be a star but probably isn’t in the best situation with the Colts. I’d still take him right now after his injury riddled rookie year.

As far as Deebo you could tell he was gonna be a star. What he did at South Carolina and at the Senior Bowl he looked like he was playing against 8th graders with his cuts and breaks out of routes. Nobody could keep up with him when he put on the breaks and “flipped the hips”. I see some Deebo in Reagor which is exciting to see.

I want a “double down” at receiver. I want Reagor and Aiyuk and then we can get this “Ferrari With Snow Tires” back on the Road.

[GB-Brandon]

Top players in each class:

2014

Brandin Cooks 4.33
Sammy Watkins 4.43
Odell Beckham 4.43
Mike Evans 4.53
Davante Adams 4.56
Allen Robinson 4.60

2015

Tyler Lockett 4.40
Amari Cooper 4.42
DeVante Parker 4.45
Stefon Diggs 4.46
Darren Waller 4.46 (converted to TE)

2016

Tyreek Hill 4.29 (Pro Day)
Will Fuller 4.32
Robbie Anderson 4.38 (Pro Day)
Tyler Boyd 4.54
Michael Thomas 4.57

2018

D.J. Chark 4.34
D.J. Moore 4.42
Calvin Ridley 4.43
Michael Gallup 4.51
Courtland Sutton 4.54

I might be the only one that finds these things interesting. :)

Thanks for all the work!!!

[run pMc]

This reminds me that I was a big Michael Gallup guy. Consensus #10 WR that year. Projected to go round 3. I had him as #4 WR and a second round grade.

1 D.J. Moore
2 Calvin Ridley
3 Courtland Sutton
4 Michael Gallup
5 D.J. Chark
6 Christian Kirk

I really liked Christian Kirk but thought he wouldn't make it to GB's R2 pick. I was wrong. Then again I thought Josh Jackson two picks before Kirk went was good value at the time. Now? Not so sure. You pick one player, you lose out on many others potentially.

I'm not sold on Reagor or Aiyuk specifically, but I do think they need some explosive players who have quickness and can separate. Yeah, so they can draft Pittman, I'm ok with him as a big slot and outside receiver, but you'd still want a guy like Duvernay or some other burner (including Raegor/Aiyuk) IMO.

FWIW, there's something about Aiyuk that screams one-year college wonder and bust player to me. Can't put my finger on it, but probably would need to watch more film.
Reagor is a burner who had some subpar QB play, the whole gaining and dropping weight thing for combine/pro day makes me wonder what weight he would play at, and he has some other questions re: his route running but I'd prefer him over Aiyuk at this point.

It's fine if people have favorite players, or players they want GB to draft. Doesn't mean they will.

If they don't draft 2 WRs -- one of them by the end of R3 -- I'll be worried. That gives you 8 players -- Funchess, Lazard, MVS, EQ, Kumerow, Begelton and 2 draft picks -- fighting it out for at most 5 spots. (I'm assuming they carry 6 WR like last year, and Adams is a lock.)

[run pMc]

Thanks for all the work!!!

Agree. Now for my nitpicking -- there are probably receivers left off the list who are at least #3WRs. Also, where's 2017? LOL

[HarveyWallbangers]

Life was busy in 2017. I was going through a divorce in 2019. :)

[Bretsky]

I really liked Christian Kirk but thought he wouldn't make it to GB's R2 pick. I was wrong. Then again I thought Josh Jackson two picks before Kirk went was good value at the time. Now? Not so sure. You pick one player, you lose out on many others potentially.

I'm not sold on Reagor or Aiyuk specifically, but I do think they need some explosive players who have quickness and can separate. Yeah, so they can draft Pittman, I'm ok with him as a big slot and outside receiver, but you'd still want a guy like Duvernay or some other burner (including Raegor/Aiyuk) IMO.

FWIW, there's something about Aiyuk that screams one-year college wonder and bust player to me. Can't put my finger on it, but probably would need to watch more film.
Reagor is a burner who had some subpar QB play, the whole gaining and dropping weight thing for combine/pro day makes me wonder what weight he would play at, and he has some other questions re: his route running but I'd prefer him over Aiyuk at this point.

It's fine if people have favorite players, or players they want GB to draft. Doesn't mean they will.

If they don't draft 2 WRs -- one of them by the end of R3 -- I'll be worried. That gives you 8 players -- Funchess, Lazard, MVS, EQ, Kumerow, Begelton and 2 draft picks -- fighting it out for at most 5 spots. (I'm assuming they carry 6 WR like last year, and Adams is a lock.)


Aiyuk scares me too; he didn't run many route and really needs a lot of development. But he is a playmaker. Cordelle Patterson ?

I'm down with Mims/Jaegor/Jefferson in round one
and
the my Fave Cephus.

GB never drafts the Badgers I am high on; so in the end I hope Cephus goes to a team with a stud QB and tears it up. Maybe Phily. Who knows

[GB-Brandon]

I really liked Christian Kirk but thought he wouldn't make it to GB's R2 pick. I was wrong. Then again I thought Josh Jackson two picks before Kirk went was good value at the time. Now? Not so sure. You pick one player, you lose out on many others potentially.

I'm not sold on Reagor or Aiyuk specifically, but I do think they need some explosive players who have quickness and can separate. Yeah, so they can draft Pittman, I'm ok with him as a big slot and outside receiver, but you'd still want a guy like Duvernay or some other burner (including Raegor/Aiyuk) IMO.

FWIW, there's something about Aiyuk that screams one-year college wonder and bust player to me. Can't put my finger on it, but probably would need to watch more film.
Reagor is a burner who had some subpar QB play, the whole gaining and dropping weight thing for combine/pro day makes me wonder what weight he would play at, and he has some other questions re: his route running but I'd prefer him over Aiyuk at this point.

It's fine if people have favorite players, or players they want GB to draft. Doesn't mean they will.

If they don't draft 2 WRs -- one of them by the end of R3 -- I'll be worried. That gives you 8 players -- Funchess, Lazard, MVS, EQ, Kumerow, Begelton and 2 draft picks -- fighting it out for at most 5 spots. (I'm assuming they carry 6 WR like last year, and Adams is a lock.)

I was skeptical about Aiyuk too early on and I get the “One Season Thing.” In fact I hold a Pac 12 bias of dislike. I didn’t like Harry at all last year. Aiyuk is a different story. He is just so natural and fluid. He doesn’t have that Parris Campbell top gear but he is right there with him on how fluid and smooth he is. This is stuff you can’t teach or coach. Aiyuk also has proven a better deep ball tracking then Campbell who didn’t have much tape of that at OSU. I see Aiyuk as a guy you can line up at multiple spots and get him involved. He is “Twitchy” and we need “Twitchy” or we’re continue to see Rodgers just chucking the ball away out of bounds cause nobody can get open and then shaking his head..

I kind of like the Greg Jennings comparison. I can see that.

[Bretsky]

I think Greg Jennings are a very very advance route runner coming out of college. I think Aiyuk can be but I don't think he is now

[GB-Brandon]

Reagor > Cobb End of story.

[GB-Brandon]

I think Greg Jennings are a very very advance route runner coming out of college. I think Aiyuk can be but I don't think he is now

I understand the route running thing but I’d rather get a guy that “has the ability” and is close then some guy like Abbrederis that runs beautiful routes but doesn’t have the physical ability to match it at the next level.

Aiyuk has “smooth hips”. Everyone thought Thompson was a “Receiver Guru Evaluator” and one of his main things he looked at was the way they were in the hips and how they moved. Aiyuk has that type of movement Thompson would be drawn too.

If we get 30-40 catches for 600 yards and 6 TD’s his rookie year we killed it. Not to mention how these guys would complete LaFluer’s offense and open things up for everyone else.

[RashanGary]

With Thompson's hAigher picks, he seems to take pass catchers who are really good at catching passes. Sounds common sense, but there are distractions that take GMs away from the obvious.

I like Pittman Jr. For that

I remember a couple times talking about OL, he would say, I liked him because he always blocked his guy. Just super common sense shit, but things that get forgotten in some of the height, weight, athleticism hype.

I like Josh Jones for that

[HarveyWallbangers]

Aiyuk scares me too; he didn't run many route and really needs a lot of development. But he is a playmaker. Cordelle Patterson ?

I'm down with Mims/Jaegor/Jefferson in round one
and
the my Fave Cephus.

GB never drafts the Badgers I am high on; so in the end I hope Cephus goes to a team with a stud QB and tears it up. Maybe Phily. Who knows

I didn't think I'd like Aiyuk, but I actually like him a lot. I don't know where you get that he doesn't run many routes. I think he has great potential with his route running.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRz8hDS93Rk

[HarveyWallbangers]

https://www.bigblueview.com/2020/2/13/21136145/2020-nfl-draft-prospect-profile-brandon-aiyuk-wr-arizona-state-scouting-report-ny-giants


Best: Explosiveness, route running, versatility, ball skills
Worst: Play strength, blocking
Projection: A starting receiver in a West Coast based offense

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2020/03/05/2020-nfl-draft-brandon-aiyuk-scouting-report/


Though not a finished product, Aiyuk has also shown some promise and growth as a route-runner. He stems his routes well and excels at attacking leverage points on the opposition, and he bursts out of his stems well. He has shown some potential in regards to his ability to sink his hips and make sharp cuts.

https://steelersdepot.com/2020/04/2020-nfl-draft-player-profiles-arizona-state-wr-brandon-aiyuk/


– Knows how to beat tight man coverage, impressive releases and overall route running
– Uses head fakes and nuanced route running to create space at break point
– Good vertical speed but wins more with quickness and route running

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm not sure how his medicals are, but one of my favorite draft scenarios is to trade down into the second round, pick up an extra pick or two, and draft Aiyuk (ala Jordy Nelson). Like Brandon, I think he does a lot of the things that Jennings did well. Jennings was an elite route runner (Aiyuk isn't that good yet), but Aiyuk is better after the catch. He's the type of WR that Aaron Rodgers prefers.

[GB-Brandon]

I didn't think I'd like Aiyuk, but I actually like him a lot. I don't know where you get that he doesn't run many routes. I think he has great potential with his route running.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRz8hDS93Rk


Thank You!!!!

He is a “Smooth Operator”

And for all these Duvernay Lovers. His hips are as tight as a drum. All your ever gonna get with him is a seam route. Not worth it!!

[GB-Brandon]

I'm not sure how his medicals are, but one of my favorite draft scenarios is to trade down into the second round, pick up an extra pick or two, and draft Aiyuk (ala Jordy Nelson). Like Brandon, I think he does a lot of the things that Jennings did well. Jennings was an elite route runner (Aiyuk isn't that good yet), but Aiyuk is better after the catch. He's the type of WR that Aaron Rodgers prefers.


Exactly, Rodgers can actually “throw Aiyuk Open”.

Yeah trade back and get Aiyuk and then pick up Niang in 2nd with and extra 3rd or 4th.

We can pick up Quez Watkins or QuIntez Cephus later.

I like it !!!!

[wist43]

Reagor reminds me of Jennings... faster than Jennings though.

I'd be fine with Reagor or Mims at 30. Aiyuk at 62... there's a few guys I like in that 2nd/3rd round range.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Unless his medicals don't check out, I don't think Aiyuk makes it to #62. He's a top of the 2nd round quality WR, but stranger things have happened. Josh Jones in the 1st and Aiyuk in the 2nd would be a dream scenario for me.

[GB-Brandon]

Reagor reminds me of Jennings... faster than Jennings though.

I'd be fine with Reagor or Mims at 30. Aiyuk at 62... there's a few guys I like in that 2nd/3rd round range.

I’d throw a party if they get both Reagor and Aiyuk. Don’t think Aiyuk will make it to 62 but Gute has plenty of ammunition to make it happen.

[wist43]

I dont think Aiyuk makes it to 62 either...

I wouldn't mind a trade down this year.

Kind of hoping for Bartch at 62.

[Bretsky]

I dont think Aiyuk makes it to 62 either...

I wouldn't mind a trade down this year.

Kind of hoping for Bartch at 62.


Really doubt the guys we really like make it to 62. Guys like Pittman, The Michigan Tarzan/Jane, and the ND WR will be

[texaspackerbacker]

I could see drafting Reagor or Mims early, even first round, but not Aiyuk even in the second round. His 4.5 time for the 40 smacks of mediocrity. Devin Duvernay performed way better and had a lot better 40 time.

I don't like a O Lineman in the first round; We don't need a ILB bad enough for a first round pick; It's doubtful that a Kenny Clark clone will be available in our first round; So what does that leave? Maybe another Corner? Maybe Jonathan Taylor? I hope not an edge rusher, especially Epenesa; Maybe Reagor or Mims. In the second round or maybe even third, I'd rather have Isaiah Wilson of Georgia over Josh Jones.

[Deputy Nutz]

I didn't think I'd like Aiyuk, but I actually like him a lot. I don't know where you get that he doesn't run many routes. I think he has great potential with his route running.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRz8hDS93Rk

A lot of it is scout speak that people, myself included regurgitate. Aiyuk is a Juco kid that ASU moved from DB to WR. So the thought is that he is raw, and it's not that he can't run all these different routes, it's can he adapt to what the defense is showing him and can he be on the same page as a NFL QB.

It's the same things said about Shenault

[Deputy Nutz]

Micheal Pittman Jr, its hard to get too excited about a guy like him, but I really watch how well receivers catch and attack the ball in traffic and he is really good at this. He has really good body control, his hands are ridiculous, and he is phyiscal. Good special team option for punt blocks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji8wcjkVb2A&t=445s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtkJHAhGGkw&feature=emb_rel_pause

[smuggler]

Reagor reminds me of Jennings... faster than Jennings though.

I'd be fine with Reagor or Mims at 30. Aiyuk at 62... there's a few guys I like in that 2nd/3rd round range.

Jennings clocked 6.68 in the 3-cone. Reagor 7.31.

[call_me_ishmael]

Jennings clocked 6.68 in the 3-cone. Reagor 7.31.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong or whatever, but I've read a few articles about how receivers are very much de-emphasizing the 3-cone in their training and that's why scores are so much lower the past two years. Apparently it is bad for their bodies or something? I'm not totally clear on what the reason was for de-emphasizing.

[GB-Brandon]

I could see drafting Reagor or Mims early, even first round, but not Aiyuk even in the second round. His 4.5 time for the 40 smacks of mediocrity. Devin Duvernay performed way better and had a lot better 40 time.

I don't like a O Lineman in the first round; We don't need a ILB bad enough for a first round pick; It's doubtful that a Kenny Clark clone will be available in our first round; So what does that leave? Maybe another Corner? Maybe Jonathan Taylor? I hope not an edge rusher, especially Epenesa; Maybe Reagor or Mims. In the second round or maybe even third, I'd rather have Isaiah Wilson of Georgia over Josh Jones.

Yet Aiyuk and Duvernay had almost identical 10 yard splits. Aiyuk is much more explosive then Duvernay also. The main thing that turns me off with Duvernay is his hips are as tight as a drum which will make it very difficult for him to develop an NFL route tree. I see him as a one trick pony that can run seam routes but won’t have much to play off that which could be a huge problem.

[GB-Brandon]

Micheal Pittman Jr, its hard to get too excited about a guy like him, but I really watch how well receivers catch and attack the ball in traffic and he is really good at this. He has really good body control, his hands are ridiculous, and he is phyiscal. Good special team option for punt blocks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji8wcjkVb2A&t=445s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtkJHAhGGkw&feature=emb_rel_pause

Nice prospect but to me it’s just more of the same.

[GB-Brandon]

I'm not saying you're right or wrong or whatever, but I've read a few articles about how receivers are very much de-emphasizing the 3-cone in their training and that's why scores are so much lower the past two years. Apparently it is bad for their bodies or something? I'm not totally clear on what the reason was for de-emphasizing.

I think Reagor putting on that weight so fast might of had something to do with it too.

[pbmax]

I'm not saying you're right or wrong or whatever, but I've read a few articles about how receivers are very much de-emphasizing the 3-cone in their training and that's why scores are so much lower the past two years. Apparently it is bad for their bodies or something? I'm not totally clear on what the reason was for de-emphasizing.

Source? Link?

[wist43]

I have no concern about Reagor's short area burst of being able to get into and out of his cuts crisply.

I'm fine with Reagor at 30.

I want to come away from the first 2 picks with any 2 of the following:

Mims, Reagor, Queen, Blacklock, Aiyuk, Bartch, Terrell, Taylor, Elliot, Murray, Jefferson, Chinn, Edwards...

Those are all guys I think could be available at either pick or in between. Someone ranked higher could drop, we could trade up or down... pretty deep draft, so a lot of scenarios.

[Deputy Nutz]

Duvernay gets going fast off the LOS his acceleration is damn good. Although I agree that he is stiff through his core and hips and he struggles to get his hips flipped, he does a really nice job of sinking his his hips to adjust his center of gravity to improve his balance.

We can argue all day about who and where a player should be drafted, but the reality is there are 15 to 20 guys in this draft that could easily make and impact in the NFL in 2020, which probably means there will be a ton of duds in 2020 with only 4 or 5 making a positive impact in 2020.

[Deputy Nutz]

I have no concern about Reagor's short area burst of being able to get into and out of his cuts crisply.

I'm fine with Reagor at 30.

I want to come away from the first 2 picks with any 2 of the following:

Mims, Reagor, Queen, Blacklock, Aiyuk, Bartch, Terrell, Taylor, Elliot, Murray, Jefferson, Chinn, Edwards...

Those are all guys I think could be available at either pick or in between. Someone ranked higher could drop, we could trade up or down... pretty deep draft, so a lot of scenarios.


I like this, I think the Packers would get a good initial grade if they came away with these guys:
Obviously I am expecting certain top tier guys to be off the board, also no specific order
WR
Mims
Reagor
Pittman
Jefferson
KJ Hamler
Aiyuk
Higgins
Shenault

DL
Epenesa
Davidson
Gallimore
Blacklock

LB
Queen
Murray
Baun

OT
Jones
Niang
Tega Wanogho
Jackson

IOL
Ruiz
Hunt

CB
Gladney
Jaylon Johnson
Terrell
Arnette

[RashanGary]

Pittman reminds me a ton of Jordy. QBs best friend, big body, blocks, sneaky fast, sneaky agile for size. Rodgers did well with Jordy.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm not saying you're right or wrong or whatever, but I've read a few articles about how receivers are very much de-emphasizing the 3-cone in their training and that's why scores are so much lower the past two years. Apparently it is bad for their bodies or something? I'm not totally clear on what the reason was for de-emphasizing.

3 cone scores were lower for every position group this year.

[GB-Brandon]

Duvernay gets going fast off the LOS his acceleration is damn good. Although I agree that he is stiff through his core and hips and he struggles to get his hips flipped, he does a really nice job of sinking his his hips to adjust his center of gravity to improve his balance.

We can argue all day about who and where a player should be drafted, but the reality is there are 15 to 20 guys in this draft that could easily make and impact in the NFL in 2020, which probably means there will be a ton of duds in 2020 with only 4 or 5 making a positive impact in 2020.

Which is why I have Porche ahead of him. Porche is the better natural route runner with the best hands in the draft. His natural movements are far superior to Duvernay. I once again would take short area quickness with ability to separate in small places over deep speed.

We need someone to mix the drink from the slot and “move the chains”. If they fail to hit on Reagor, Hamler, Aiyuk then Porche provides an option in 4th-5th round. He screams Randall Cobb to me with Porche having better hands.

[Deputy Nutz]

Which is why I have Porche ahead of him. Porche is the better natural route runner with the best hands in the draft. His natural movements are far superior to Duvernay. I once again would take short area quickness with ability to separate in small places over deep speed.

We need someone to mix the drink from the slot and “move the chains”. If they fail to hit on Reagor, Hamler, Aiyuk then Porche provides an option in 4th-5th round. He screams Randall Cobb to me with Porche having better hands.

Draft Network
James Proche
"Routes are not crisp, his breaks are rounded and his hips are tight. Creative working after the catch but you won’t find him breaking tackles on tape. Struggles to free himself when crowded early in his routes. Struggles to gain quick leverage and pull away due to his short strides."

Be consistent

[GB-Brandon]

Draft Network
James Proche
"Routes are not crisp, his breaks are rounded and his hips are tight. Creative working after the catch but you won’t find him breaking tackles on tape. Struggles to free himself when crowded early in his routes. Struggles to gain quick leverage and pull away due to his short strides."

Be consistent

And 24/7 Sports says

“He's got fantastic hands, he's got good route running, especially in short and small spaces”

I can find an opinion to go either way on any of these guys if I look hard enough. I’m going by what I see when I WATCH THE FILM so I am being as consistent as I can.

Thank You

[Deputy Nutz]

I do like Proche's hands and play making ability when the ball is in the air. It is probably what defines him at the next level.

Again, if you are talking about value, I think Proche's is a sleeper value with mid round grade. If you get him between the 5th and 6th round he could prove to be a total steal.

Heads up, I take Duvernay, at least with Duvernay he has that speed and is more sudden, he has great hands in traffic and he is true slot. Proche's huge play making ability certainly can't be overlooked. On thedraftnetwork.com they are rated pretty similar as Duvernay is the 138th prospect and Proche is the 147th.

[GB-Brandon]

I do like Proche's hands and play making ability when the ball is in the air. It is probably what defines him at the next level.

Again, if you are talking about value, I think Proche's is a sleeper value with mid round grade. If you get him between the 5th and 6th round he could prove to be a total steal.

Heads up, I take Duvernay, at least with Duvernay he has that speed and is more sudden, he has great hands in traffic and he is true slot. Proche's huge play making ability certainly can't be overlooked. On thedraftnetwork.com they are rated pretty similar as Duvernay is the 138th prospect and Proche is the 147th.

Yeah, it comes down to more of what you value and need. I’m not gonna deny Duvernay’s ability to put vertical pressure on the seam but I’m concerned about the rest of his game and not sure he will ever produce into having an all-around NFL route tree. Is his vertical game enough to merit a mid round draft pick? I’m not so sure. There are tons of theses types bouncing around the league. However; he wouldn’t be the first “speed herky jerky type” to be able to transition but there are other guys I like better.

Yes, I have Porche’s sweet spot in the 5th round and that’s only due to him not running sub 4.5. “Great Hands” are still welcomed in the NFL and I believe he is just athletic enough to be able to use his skill-set to produce in the NFL. How much remains to be seen but these type of guys seem to “over-perform” there combine numbers a lot of times. Randall Cobb wasn’t the most explosive athlete but he found ways to win in the short-intermediate passing game. Calvin Ridley would be another example of a guy who lacked explosion.

The combine and numbers to me are just one part of the evaluation process. I wish it was easy as just picking the guys with the best numbers but most of us know it’s just not that easy.

[Deputy Nutz]

I stand by my initial rankings of these guys, but both Mims and Reagor are deserving of first round picks. With the depth of the WR group this year it might cause the second tier guys to be bumped to second round status as teams feel they can get considerable value with lower commodities. If Reagor or Mims are there in the second round, a team like the Packers should move up in the second round and draft them.

There is just so much value. I have right around 8 guys that have first round value, and some teams are going to get steals on days 2 and 3 of this draft at wide receiver.
Ruggs
Juedy
Lamb
Jefferson
Mims
Reagor
Aiyuk
Pittman
& I am high Shenault as well but I can't quite slap a first round grade on him
Also - Peoples-Jones has as much natural talent at the WR position as anyone in this draft.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I've been watching film all day on WRs. Giving some a third look. This is my final board at WR:

1 1 CeeDee Lamb Oklahoma
2 1 Jerry Jeudy Alabama
3 1 Henry Ruggs Alabama
4 1 Justin Jefferson LSU
5 1-2 Brandon Aiyuk Arizona State
6 1-2 Denzel Mims Baylor
7 1-2 Jalen Reagor TCU
8 2 Tee Higgins Clemson
9 2 Laviska Shenault Colorado
10 2 Michael Pittman USC
11 2 Chase Claypool Notre Dame
12 2-3 Bryan Edwards South Carolina
13 3 Van Jefferson Florida
14 3 Tyler Johnson Minnesota
15 3 K.J. Hamler Penn State
16 3-4 Antonio Gandy-Golden Liberty
17 3-4 Devin Duvernay Texas
18 3-4 Lynn Bowden Kentucky
19 4 James Proche SMU
20 4 Donovan Peoples-Jones Michigan
21 4 Gabriel Davis UCF
22 4-5 Quartney Davis Texas A&M
23 4-5 K.J. Hill Ohio State
24 5-6 John Hightower Boise State
25 5-6 Quez Watkins Southern Miss
26 5-6 Isaiah Coulter Rhode Island
27 5-6 Quintez Cephus Wisconsin
28 5-6 Isaiah Hodgins Oregon State
29 6-7 Joe Reed Virginia
30 6-7 Collin Johnson Texas
31 6-7 Kalija Lipscomb Vanderbilt
32 7-FA Josh Pearson Jacksonville State
33 7-FA Dezmon Patmon Washington State
34 7-FA Stephen Guidry Mississippi State

Other WRs that I watched, but deemed as UDFA:
Aaron Parker, Aaron Fuller, Darnell Mooney

[Bretsky]

Strongly agree that CeeDee Lamb is the best WR in this draft
Jeudy is 1B

[GB-Brandon]

I've been watching film all day on WRs. Giving some a third look. This is my final board at WR:

1 1 CeeDee Lamb Oklahoma
2 1 Jerry Jeudy Alabama
3 1 Henry Ruggs Alabama
4 1 Justin Jefferson LSU
5 1-2 Brandon Aiyuk Arizona State
6 1-2 Denzel Mims Baylor
7 1-2 Jalen Reagor TCU
8 2 Tee Higgins Clemson
9 2 Laviska Shenault Colorado
10 2 Michael Pittman USC
11 2 Chase Claypool Notre Dame
12 2-3 Bryan Edwards South Carolina
13 3 Van Jefferson Florida
14 3 Tyler Johnson Minnesota
15 3 K.J. Hamler Penn State
16 3-4 Antonio Gandy-Golden Liberty
17 3-4 Devin Duvernay Texas
18 3-4 Lynn Bowden Kentucky
19 4 James Proche SMU
20 4 Donovan Peoples-Jones Michigan
21 4 Gabriel Davis UCF
22 4-5 Quartney Davis Texas A&M
23 4-5 K.J. Hill Ohio State
24 5-6 John Hightower Boise State
25 5-6 Quez Watkins Southern Miss
26 5-6 Isaiah Coulter Rhode Island
27 5-6 Quintez Cephus Wisconsin
28 5-6 Isaiah Hodgins Oregon State
29 6-7 Joe Reed Virginia
30 6-7 Collin Johnson Texas
31 6-7 Kalija Lipscomb Vanderbilt
32 7-FA Josh Pearson Jacksonville State
33 7-FA Dezmon Patmon Washington State
34 7-FA Stephen Guidry Mississippi State

Other WRs that I watched, but deemed as UDFA:
Aaron Parker, Aaron Fuller, Darnell Mooney

I’m good with that other then I have Jefferson lower and would put Edwards ahead of Pittman/Claypool. I’d also have Cephus a little higher. Maybe Porche too.

[GB-Brandon]

With even more review one thing I will say about Mimms is he doesn’t offer a whole lot after the catch.

It’s not the end of the world type thing but I just prefer someone that can explode with ball in his hands.

[Bretsky]

With even more review one thing I will say about Mimms is he doesn’t offer a whole lot after the catch.

It’s not the end of the world type thing but I just prefer someone that can explode with ball in his hands.


Way more advanced as a route runner IMO than Aiyuk or Jaegor

[wist43]

3 cone scores were lower for every position group this year.

Cause of global warming :-|

[GB-Brandon]

Way more advanced as a route runner IMO than Aiyuk or Jaegor

We have guys that can run routes. We need some someone to make some explosive plays.

[Bretsky]

We have guys that can run routes. We need some someone to make some explosive plays.


You really think more of our WR's than I do

I would argue we need both

We have Devante Adams. The Lizard is ok. The rest probably need upgrading. Mims, Jaegor, Aiyuk....they would probably all be our second most talented WR's.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Brandon was high on Reagor.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Way more advanced as a route runner IMO than Aiyuk or Jaegor

I think both Aiyuk and Reagor are better route runners than Mims.

[GB-Brandon]

I think both Aiyuk and Reagor are better route runners than Mims.

I am high on Aiyuk too. Please Lord.

[GB-Brandon]

Just got beat and schooled by the Niners again.

[Bretsky]

Just got beat and schooled by the Niners again.


Yup, they are good

Teams seem to be aggressively moving.

Not sure I like any WR left over Patrick Queen. But the Ravens need a ILB as well and dammit I'm sick of drafting defense !!!!

[ThunderDan]

GB trades up.

[Bretsky]

NOBODY TWITTER THIS PLZZZZZZ

[Bretsky]

QUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNN NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

[Bretsky]

HOLLLYYYYYYYYYYYYY SHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT