The Next Few Years - Rebuild Mode

[pbmax]

I don’t understand how this is so hard to understand. The draft gives you a clear vision of “what their doing” or “attempting to do”. This was draft a QB and bunch of “Big Ass’s and Bigs legs” literally so there is your direction. Then look at LaFluer’s background and principles and I believe it is pretty obvious there re-building into that. You also don’t move up and draft QB’s in the first round to sit on the bench forever. I am so so sorry that this is so hard for you.

Call it a Re-tool, Re-build, Change of Philosophy or whatever you want. The fact is their moving towards players to play out LaFluers principals. The real question is how long will it take them to complete it. That should be the narrative moving forward . We’re just wasting our time with all this DENIAL.

The TE drafted is smaller than the TEs on the roster. Only his position is different. He's not carrying the ball.

Only the RB is bigger and we don't know how much he will be playing. Other than this guy, who is a RAS freak and therefore not much different than the typical Packer draft profile, where do you see a giant size increase? One of the OL drafted seems larger than normal.

[pbmax]

So according to max, we have no identity, we are not transitioning to anything, Rodgers is a happy camper, and the team is improved and steaming toward a championship??

Got it ;)

No, no. I don't think Rodgers is necessarily happy. That remains to be seen. He hasn't be Hamlet-ing his retirement, but there is a lot of time between now and a September camp.

As for identity, you saw this offense last year. Its a TE plus an Hback and one tailback. Stormbringer was out there with Lewis or Graham for it.

[pbmax]

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2020/4/28/21237982/packers-2020-draft-class-matt-lafleur-revamped-offense-aj-dillon-run-focus-play-action

Good point about two backs. Forgot about that.

[pbmax]

Glad to see I took a couple days off and the usual suspects are having the same conversations.


https://media.giphy.com/media/13fHO8l7RUUDgA/giphy.gif

[pbmax]

I'm shocked, shocked to see senseless arguing on a sports forum!

Gentleman, we can't have fighting, this is the War Room!

[Zool]

Fuck, it's just football. Be like Elsa.

[pbmax]

Here is the other disconnect over this draft, though I have seen it more on Twitter than here.

People are now full fledged calling Love a system quarterback. :roll:

A guy drafted in the first round on his big arm, legit size, mobility and athleticism and the ability to extend plays (and not his production) is a system QB.

OK.

[wist43]

Fuck, it's just football. Be like Elsa.

My Grandmother?? She died 15 years ago... try to keep up would ya ;)

[GB-Brandon]

Here is the other disconnect over this draft, though I have seen it more on Twitter than here.

People are now full fledged calling Love a system quarterback. :roll:

A guy drafted in the first round on his big arm, legit size, mobility and athleticism and the ability to extend plays (and not his production) is a system QB.

OK.

Alex Smith was talented and the first player picked in the draft and he was a system QB.

[mraynrand]

Why did SF trade up to draft Aiyuk, when then run the very offense we're trying to emulate??.

Didn’t they lose a WR in the offseason?

[mraynrand]

Fuck, it's just football. Be like Elsa.

No. I am not that fabulous.

[Zool]

My Grandmother?? She died 15 years ago... try to keep up would ya ;)

Please tell me you have a great aunt named Anna.

[Bretsky]

Didn’t they lose a WR in the offseason?

they lost Sanders and his contract.

[pbmax]

Alex Smith was talented and the first player picked in the draft and he was a system QB.

So was Rodgers. And people who did not like that did not rate them as highly. Rodgers, and to a lesser extent Smith, were downgraded because of the system (Tedford in one case, spread read option in the other I think).

I don't believe Gute drafted him because of the system. He drafted him on the measurables and the success of 2018.

[wist43]

Please tell me you have a great aunt named Anna.

No... my 4 year old is a Frozen junkie. If she thought she had relatives named Elsa and Anna?? There'd be no living with her, lol...

[mraynrand]

No... my 4 year old is a Frozen junkie. If she thought she had relatives named Elsa and Anna?? There'd be no living with her, lol...

Be like Anna or Elsa!

[mraynrand]

https://media.giphy.com/media/13fHO8l7RUUDgA/giphy.gif

That’s me in front of my thesis committee.

[GB-Brandon]

So the sweet spot for Rodgers to be gone is 2021 based on this formula. It makes sense after what will be presumed to be a soap opera situation in 2020(if they even play). If this becomes a losing football team situation in 2020 this will almost certainly become reality.

The Packers really took a massive gamble here. If the 2021 version of Jordan Love becomes a disaster with him being forced to play and even harder losing is the result you would have to wonder if Gute/Lafluer are even around 2022-2023 as @Wist has posted. Makes a lot of sense. These fools could very easily go from smiling ear to ear on draft day(2020) with the selection of JL to being ran out of town very soon.

“Aaron Rodgers plays out 2020 in GB. He then agrees to push back his $6.8M 2021 roster bonus payment date to the summer, allowing the #Packers to trade him Post June 1st, which means $14.3M of 2021 dead cap ($22M saved), & $17.2M of 2022 dead cap”

[pbmax]

So the sweet spot for Rodgers to be gone is 2021 based on this formula. It makes sense after what will be presumed to be a soap opera situation in 2020(if they even play). If this becomes a losing football team situation in 2020 this will almost certainly become reality.

The Packers really took a massive gamble here. If the 2021 version of Jordan Love becomes a disaster with him being forced to play and even harder losing is the result you would have to wonder if Gute/Lafluer are even around 2022-2023 as @Wist has posted. Makes a lot of sense. These fools could very easily go from smiling ear to ear on draft day(2020) with the selection of JL to being ran out of town very soon.

“Aaron Rodgers plays out 2020 in GB. He then agrees to push back his $6.8M 2021 roster bonus payment date to the summer, allowing the #Packers to trade him Post June 1st, which means $14.3M of 2021 dead cap ($22M saved), & $17.2M of 2022 dead cap”

Link?

He doesn't need to push that bonus number back. You can designate a post June 1 date at almost any time. Whatever it saves them in cash just drops the return they are getting by trade.

[GB-Brandon]

Link?

He doesn't need to push that bonus number back. You can designate a post June 1 date at almost any time. Whatever it saves them in cash just drops the return they are getting by trade.

https://twitter.com/spotrac/status/1255503169771188224?s=20

[SudsMcBucky]

I still have high hopes that ESB is the WR we're looking for opposite Davante. He's a 6'5" dude who ran 4.48 at the combine. Just a shame he was hurt all last year, but I really think he can be that guy.

[Upnorth]

I hate asking this but why is Rodgers gone 2021? How is this any different than 2005?

[Fritz]

No... my 4 year old is a Frozen junkie. If she thought she had relatives named Elsa and Anna?? There'd be no living with her, lol...

Your four-year-old is a frozen junkie? Man, that's harsh, Wist. Harsh.

[GB-Brandon]

I hate asking this but why is Rodgers gone 2021? How is this any different than 2005?

Many Many differences and this has caused IMO a lot of confusion among the fan base.

First of all NFL contracts and the salary cap are different then in 2005 and how it is all set up. The rookie QB deal is a way many teams now try to compete in the modern day NFL. By drafting Jordan Love the Packers have a value budget QB for up too 5 years. It has been widely used by teams so they can allocate assets to other areas of the roster and making it more manageable to re-sign there other players they want to keep so it relieves the overall cap situation.

Secondly while the Packers groomed Rodgers for 3 years on the bench this just isn’t practiced anymore. In fact, most rookie 1st round QB’s today are almost immediately put into the fire day 1, if not during sometime their rookie season. Pat Mahommes was even an outlier to this but was still inserted as the starter after his rookie season. This was after Alex Smith led them to a division championship and playoff berth with Smith then being traded during the offseason.

Lastly, the dynamics of the situation are completely different. Ted Thompson had Rodgers fall too him and many had Rodgers as the No.1 overall pick in the draft. It was a weird year where nobody was looking for QB’s. This is a situation where the Packers traded up to draft a QB which some believe was the 5th or 6th best QB in the draft. The number 1 player in the draft simply didn’t just fall to us. This willingness to move up after a 13-3 season has to point to there already being some decay somewhere in the organization with Rodgers.

So overall the value is just too high to keep JL on the bench for 3 or 4 years with his rookie contract . On top of this the “daily distraction” would be too much. I mean can you imagaine what’s gonna be the narrative every time Rodgers has a bad game? This will become cancerous to the locker room and the organization and the pressure building with “Social Media” etc etc will not allow for JL to simply just sit on the bench for 3-4 years. This simply isn’t 2004-2005. LaFluer/Gute are gonna get asked way more by the media every day about Jordan Love then Belichick was asked about Antonio Brown last season. It’s never gonna work.

[RashanGary]

3 years learning would make sense. I wouldnt be disappointed if we move on from Rodgers when he's 39/40. Great timing gute!

[GB-Brandon]

3 years learning would make sense. I wouldnt be disappointed if we move on from Rodgers when he's 39/40. Great timing gute!

Not Really. I question how much you can really learn from basically sitting on the bench for 3 years holding a clipboard. You need live rounds at some point against top NFL competition.

Hundley obviously “Didn’t learn from the Bench”

Nobody in the league is practicing this with a 1st round pick.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Many Many differences and this has caused IMO a lot of confusion among the fan base.

First of all NFL contracts and the salary cap are different then in 2005 and how it is all set up. The rookie QB deal is a way many teams now try to compete in the modern day NFL. By drafting Jordan Love the Packers have a value budget QB for up too 5 years. It has been widely used by teams so they can allocate assets to other areas of the roster and making it more manageable to re-sign there other players they want to keep so it relieves the overall cap situation.

Secondly while the Packers groomed Rodgers for 3 years on the bench this just isn’t practiced anymore. In fact, most rookie 1st round QB’s today are almost immediately put into the fire day 1, if not during sometime their rookie season. Pat Mahommes was even an outlier to this but was still inserted as the starter after his rookie season. This was after Alex Smith led them to a division championship and playoff berth with Smith then being traded during the offseason.

Lastly, the dynamics of the situation are completely different. Ted Thompson had Rodgers fall too him and many had Rodgers as the No.1 overall pick in the draft. It was a weird year where nobody was looking for QB’s. This is a situation where the Packers traded up to draft a QB which some believe was the 5th or 6th best QB in the draft. The number 1 player in the draft simply didn’t just fall to us. This willingness to move up after a 13-3 season has to point to there already being some decay somewhere in the organization with Rodgers.

So overall the value is just too high to keep JL on the bench for 3 or 4 years with his rookie contract . On top of this the “daily distraction” would be too much. I mean can you imagaine what’s gonna be the narrative every time Rodgers has a bad game? This will become cancerous to the locker room and the organization and the pressure building with “Social Media” etc etc will not allow for JL to simply just sit on the bench for 3-4 years. This simply isn’t 2004-2005. LaFluer/Gute are gonna get asked way more by the media every day about Jordan Love then Belichick was asked about Antonio Brown last season. It’s never gonna work.

Most of these are really good takes, but I think the part about what happened to Rodgers isn't reality. I think a lot of people thought there were no QBs were drafting high that year. If Rodgers was truly that highly regarded, he wouldn't have dropped to the #24 pick. There was a lot of skepticism about Rodgers because all Tedford QBs had failed up to that point (Joey Harrington, Akili Smith, and many others). The revisionist thinking about no team needing a QB is nonsense. If Rodgers was an elite QB prospect, several teams would have drafted him:

#2 Miami started a terrible A.J. Feeley (12 TDs, 15 ints) in 2004. They replaced him with 34-year-old Gus Frerotte in 2005.
#3 Cleveland started 34 year-old Jeff Garcia (10 TDs, 9 ints) in 2004. They replaced him with 33-year-old Trent Dilfer in 2005.
#5 Tampa Bay started an average Brian Griese (20 TDs, 12 ints) in 2004. They replaced him with a 3rd round pick from 2003, Chris Simms, in 2005.
#8 Arizona started a terrible Josh McCown (11 TDs, 10 ints) in 2004. They replaced him with Kurt Warner in 2005, but Warner was coming off three miserable years (with St. Louis and NY Giants).
#9 Washington started 34 year-old Mark Brunett (7 TDs, 6 ints) in 2004. Brunell was coming off a couple of down years and was at the end of his career.
#10 Detroit started Joey Harrington in 2004. After three years in the league Harrington had shown he wasn't going to amount to much in the league.
#11 & #20 Dallas started 41 year-old Vinny Testaverde (17 TDs, 20 ints) in 2004. They replaced him with 34-year-old Drew Bledsoe in 2005, but Bledsoe was coming off three average years in Buffalo.
#13 New Orleans started an average Aaron Brooks (21 TDs, 16 ints) in 2004 and 2005 with no prospect waiting in the wings.
#20 Oakland started 32-year-old Kerry Collins (21 TDs, 20 ints) in 2004 and 2005 with no prospect waiting in the wings.

If Rodgers had truly been that highly regarded around league circles, there's no way these teams would have passed on him.

Somebody previously posted the quotes from scouts around the league regarding Rodgers.

[mraynrand]

Not Really. I question how much you can really learn from basically sitting on the bench for 3 years holding a clipboard. You need live rounds at some point against top NFL competition.

Hundley obviously “Didn’t learn from the Bench”

But Rodgers 'did.' No, I don't believe that for a second. Rodgers - and probably Love - just have a higher ceiling. Rodgers looked fantastic in 2007 throwing the route tree to Jennings in pre-game practices (saw him twice) and was fine versus Dallas. did those years help him dump the Tedford programming for a better form, etc. Maybe. Maybe he didn't;'t need two years. Love (hopefully) will be the same - unless you believe he has a low ceiling. Eventually we will find out.

[mraynrand]

If Rodgers had truly been that highly regarded around league circles, there's no way these teams would have passed on him.

The most critical point, and certainly was true. Cleveland talk shows were laughing at GB for drafting him. "Terrible Tedford QB* - will be as bad as Joey" is the gist of what I recall.




*edit: Not that Rodgers was himself particularly terrible (he wasn't) but that the talking heads (and others) were saying Tedford QBs were terrible in the NFL...

[pbmax]

Many Many differences and this has caused IMO a lot of confusion among the fan base.

First of all NFL contracts and the salary cap are different then in 2005 and how it is all set up. The rookie QB deal is a way many teams now try to compete in the modern day NFL. By drafting Jordan Love the Packers have a value budget QB for up too 5 years. It has been widely used by teams so they can allocate assets to other areas of the roster and making it more manageable to re-sign there other players they want to keep so it relieves the overall cap situation.

Two things changed. One, even top of the first round QB draft picks are now slotted. They no longer get Stafford sized bonuses. So all first round QBs are cheaper. but this applies less so to back end of first round picks. The length of contact hasn't changed, most big bonus deals ran 5 years.

Coaches have adapted to the found cap money by being more open to QBs coming in and running offenses that aren't duplicates of the 500 page playbooks of the past.

So former early first round picks almost HAD to start because you couldn't afford a good backup. Not true so much anymore.

Packers offense could qualify. But Rodgers cannot be comfortably cut this year and debate rages how easy it would be to do it after 2020.


Secondly while the Packers groomed Rodgers for 3 years on the bench this just isn’t practiced anymore. In fact, most rookie 1st round QB’s today are almost immediately put into the fire day 1, if not during sometime their rookie season. Pat Mahommes was even an outlier to this but was still inserted as the starter after his rookie season. This was after Alex Smith led them to a division championship and playoff berth with Smith then being traded during the offseason.

It wasn't practice before Rodgers. Even Marino only sat a year. Elway was going to sit but he started his rookie year 10 times. Learning on the bench was over in the 80s. Rodgers was an anomaly. The only recent comparison is Mahomes who sat for one year.


Lastly, the dynamics of the situation are completely different. Ted Thompson had Rodgers fall too him and many had Rodgers as the No.1 overall pick in the draft. It was a weird year where nobody was looking for QB’s. This is a situation where the Packers traded up to draft a QB which some believe was the 5th or 6th best QB in the draft. The number 1 player in the draft simply didn’t just fall to us. This willingness to move up after a 13-3 season has to point to there already being some decay somewhere in the organization with Rodgers.

Possibly, but its just speculation. Just as possible things continue as they were.


So overall the value is just too high to keep JL on the bench for 3 or 4 years with his rookie contract . On top of this the “daily distraction” would be too much. I mean can you imagaine what’s gonna be the narrative every time Rodgers has a bad game? This will become cancerous to the locker room and the organization and the pressure building with “Social Media” etc etc will not allow for JL to simply just sit on the bench for 3-4 years. This simply isn’t 2004-2005. LaFluer/Gute are gonna get asked way more by the media every day about Jordan Love then Belichick was asked about Antonio Brown last season. It’s never gonna work.

He is going to sit for at least a year and likely two. 3 or 4 doesn't make that much of a difference. They would extend him after he starts and doesn't fall apart just as they did Rodgers. More importantly is how Rodgers reacts and plays. Plus his health.

[pbmax]

I agree with Harv about the draft needs of teams in 2005, but Schneider and Thompson both have said if he got past the top 10 (don't remember which team they thought was the last high pick looking for a first round QB) he was likely going to fall to the last 1/3 of the round.

That list of their QBs is pathetic and fun, but you also need to know what a QB in the Top 8 was expensive AND some of these teams were already sending good money on vet replacements.


John Schneider, now the Seattle Seahawks GM but one of Thompson’s top personnel lieutenants at the time: I think it was the Thursday before the draft started, Ted and I were sitting there watching film and we had a TV on, and (then-NFL Network draft analyst) Mike Mayock was going through his mock draft. And he had Aaron (falling to the Packers), because if you got past 12 or 14, right in there, all those teams had quarterbacks already. So we looked at each other like, ‘That could happen.’

They thought 12 or 14.

https://theathletic.com/1760221/2020/04/22/i-do-not-look-happy-an-oral-history-of-aaron-rodgers-draft-day-free-fall/

[falco]

No one is going to know whether this was a good decision or a bad one for a few years at least. All we can do now is debate, like we did in 2005 on JSO.

Adding a high-potential backup QB gives the team plenty of optionality moving into the back end of Rodgers career. I don't see this as pushing Rodgers out the door; it gives the team flexibility and creates a succession plan so they are protected against catastrophic scenarios.

Could we have picked an future HoF inductee who brought us over the top? Probably unlikely at where we were drafting.

There's a good chance Love will be a bust, but you do homework and hope that doesn't happen. It's a gamble no matter what.

I have a hard time faulting the team for their decision. I'm not a draft expert so can't say if any of their picks were reaches.

[texaspackerbacker]

Certainly he has the tools not to be a bust. With a lot of teams, however, Love's propensity to throw interceptions would undoubtedly doom his career and make him a bust. With the Packers, though, and presumably adopting Aaron Rodgers' magnificent propensity not to throw interceptions, I'd say there is a good chance - better in Green Bay than anywhere else - of his developing as our next great QB.

The other pertinent fact is that coming off a 13-3 season, our "needs" apparently weren't quite as obvious as the panicky portion of the Packer fans seem to think. We could afford to gamble - I guess. I'm not saying it's what I woulda done, but I ain't the GM; Neither are any of us in here.

[GB-Brandon]

Wow, you guys collectively should start a band.

You can call it, “The Spin Doctors”.

[GB-Brandon]

All these “Fairy Tales” come to an end as soon Rodgers decides to take his ball and go home which I completely expect sooner then later with this bullshit situation the organization has put him in.

It’s really interesting how we haven’t heard anything yet from Rodgers about this as he carefully calculates his plan to get the fuck out of this dysfunction.

[pbmax]

Are they rebuilding though? Ooof.


Andy Herman @AndyHermanNFL
Offensive unrestricted free agent signings & draft picks in 3 years w/ Brian Gutekunst:

QB: Love
RB: D. Williams | Dillon
WR: J’Mon | MVS | EQ | Funchess
TE: Graham | Looney | Sternberger | Deguara
OL: B. Bell | Turner | Wagner | Madison | Jenkins | Runyan | Hanson | Stepaniak


HE FORGOT MARCEDES LEWIS

[mraynrand]

All these “Fairy Tales” come to an end as soon Rodgers decides to take his ball and go home which I completely expect sooner then later with this bullshit situation the organization has put him in.

It’s really interesting how we haven’t heard anything yet from Rodgers about this as he carefully calculates his plan to get the fuck out of this dysfunction.

Maybe he can retire, and then appear with ??? - Greta Van Susteren is currently off the air, I believe. There has to be somewhere he can go to cry on TV.

[GB-Brandon]

Even Favre knows this a Fucken Disaster!!!!

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2889306-brett-favre-thinks-packers-aaron-rodgers-will-change-teams-before-career-ends

[mraynrand]

HE FORGOT MARCEDES LEWIS

SO DID THE PACKERS

[mraynrand]

Even Favre knows this a Fucken Disaster!!!!’n

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2889306-brett-favre-thinks-packers-aaron-rodgers-will-change-teams-before-career-ends

Favre is the perfect go-to guy for advice on how to leverage yourself out of a team on a SB trajectory!

[GB-Brandon]

Some dumb ass Rookie Coach and Fraudulent second year GM running around burning bridges with a HOF QB with plenty of tread left on the tire.

Yeah let’s talk about year 1, year 2 and year 3?

It’s called

6-10
3-13
4-12

Wow!!!!!!!! Can’t wait!!!!!

[pbmax]

Didn't someone start an Aaron Rodgers thread that was the same format as the world famous Official Brett Favre thread?

I cannot find it. But it is time.

[falco]

All these “Fairy Tales” come to an end as soon Rodgers decides to take his ball and go home which I completely expect sooner then later with this bullshit situation the organization has put him in.

:roll:

[Upnorth]

Many Many differences and this has caused IMO a lot of confusion among the fan base.

First of all NFL contracts and the salary cap are different then in 2005 and how it is all set up. The rookie QB deal is a way many teams now try to compete in the modern day NFL. By drafting Jordan Love the Packers have a value budget QB for up too 5 years. It has been widely used by teams so they can allocate assets to other areas of the roster and making it more manageable to re-sign there other players they want to keep so it relieves the overall cap situation.

Secondly while the Packers groomed Rodgers for 3 years on the bench this just isn’t practiced anymore. In fact, most rookie 1st round QB’s today are almost immediately put into the fire day 1, if not during sometime their rookie season. Pat Mahommes was even an outlier to this but was still inserted as the starter after his rookie season. This was after Alex Smith led them to a division championship and playoff berth with Smith then being traded during the offseason.

Lastly, the dynamics of the situation are completely different. Ted Thompson had Rodgers fall too him and many had Rodgers as the No.1 overall pick in the draft. It was a weird year where nobody was looking for QB’s. This is a situation where the Packers traded up to draft a QB which some believe was the 5th or 6th best QB in the draft. The number 1 player in the draft simply didn’t just fall to us. This willingness to move up after a 13-3 season has to point to there already being some decay somewhere in the organization with Rodgers.

So overall the value is just too high to keep JL on the bench for 3 or 4 years with his rookie contract . On top of this the “daily distraction” would be too much. I mean can you imagaine what’s gonna be the narrative every time Rodgers has a bad game? This will become cancerous to the locker room and the organization and the pressure building with “Social Media” etc etc will not allow for JL to simply just sit on the bench for 3-4 years. This simply isn’t 2004-2005. LaFluer/Gute are gonna get asked way more by the media every day about Jordan Love then Belichick was asked about Antonio Brown last season. It’s never gonna work.

Your first point - do you believe they will start love over arod this or the next year baring injury? If not your point is moot.

Second I can't think of any QB since I have watched football who was groomed for three years besides Rodgers. So no history before during or since, your point is moot.

Third, this very similar reaction occurred in 2005 which is my original point. Most fans and media were flummoxed that we would draft a QB instead of a wr.

You have not shown a difference between then and now. Both qbs are behind a hof QB who some think doesn't care or want to be with the present management. The only difference is hindsight with arod and the unknown with love.

Our reaction and the media reactions are basically identical.

[RashanGary]

I agree, upnorth. We were all here 15 years ago. Any other fan base would be losiing their minds right now, but we've seen this before so we're like, yeah, whatever. Even Rodgers had to have known this was possible

[RashanGary]

Media was even asking about a QB before the draft this year. Everyone knew this is about the time you'd do it. Groom a guy for 2-3 years and then let the 38-40 year old guy go.

[GB-Brandon]

Your first point - do you believe they will start love over arod this or the next year baring injury? If not your point is moot.

Second I can't think of any QB since I have watched football who was groomed for three years besides Rodgers. So no history before during or since, your point is moot.

Third, this very similar reaction occurred in 2005 which is my original point. Most fans and media were flummoxed that we would draft a QB instead of a wr.

You have not shown a difference between then and now. Both qbs are behind a hof QB who some think doesn't care or want to be with the present management. The only difference is hindsight with arod and the unknown with love.

Our reaction and the media reactions are basically identical.

Well unfortunately your “history lesson” has one major flaw. The percentages required for this to work out like last time might be equivalent to winning the Lottery twice .


Go read another History Book.

Let me be clear that I am not rooting against Jordan Love but as much as I want the Packers to win the probabilities are not in our favor. Franchises have literally spent decades looking for a franchise QB so to me the downside is much more probable.

The arrogance to make this move all things considered to me is just disgusting.

[GB-Brandon]

I agree, upnorth. We were all here 15 years ago. Any other fan base would be losiing their minds right now, but we've seen this before so we're like, yeah, whatever. Even Rodgers had to have known this was possible

Yeah because finding HOF QB’s is just so easy. Lol. We do it in our sleep.

[Bretsky]

The media politician...Dan Patrick....who tries to stay in the middle on everythig......lit up GB this morning.

[mraynrand]

The media politician...Dan Patrick....who tries to stay in the middle on everythig......lit up GB this morning.

Somehow, my heart will go on.

[mraynrand]

Yeah because finding HOF QB’s is just so easy. Lol. We do it in our sleep.

Yep, strong point. GB is pretty good at this.

[pbmax]

Yep, strong point. GB is pretty good at this.

Its five and counting:

Herber, Starr, Dickey (one less injury, couple more years), Favre and Rodgers.

Should be Ready Wright too if they gave him better weapons :lol:

[mraynrand]

Its five and counting:

Herber, Starr, Dickey (one less injury, couple more years), Favre and Rodgers.

Should be Ready Wright too if they gave him better weapons :lol:

lol about Randy Wright. I’ve always maintained that Dickey was a bit better than Dan Fouts. Lousy teams and injuries KOed him. But he had greatness in him.

[GB-Brandon]

Its five and counting:

Herber, Starr, Dickey (one less injury, couple more years), Favre and Rodgers.

Should be Ready Wright too if they gave him better weapons :lol:

I would add David Whitehurst if you really want to make the list complete.

[Upnorth]

Well unfortunately your “history lesson” has one major flaw. The percentages required for this to work out like last time might be equivalent to winning the Lottery twice .


Go read another History Book.

Let me be clear that I am not rooting against Jordan Love but as much as I want the Packers to win the probabilities are not in our favor. Franchises have literally spent decades looking for a franchise QB so to me the downside is much more probable.

The arrogance to make this move all things considered to me is just disgusting.

I doubt we found another hof QB, but the timing to try was now. 2018 love had a ton of potential and that is what gutbag bought into and his board said go.
One thing I know is if he didn't try then he has zero chance. Love maybe garbage but I hope not.

[Rastak]

Was surprised to see the early Superb Owl odds post draft.

https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/super-bowl-odds-chances-projections-betting-2020?%243p=a_partnerize&%24affiliate_url=https%3A%2F%2Fprf.hn%2Fclick%2Fca mref%3A1100l8b2N%2Fpubref%3A124578X1617579Xb14bfcb fd434d40300af4be814ec81a0%5B%5Bsubaffiliatedomain% 3Afansided.com%5D%24canonical_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2F www.actionnetwork.com%2Fnfl%2Fsuper-bowl-odds-chances-projections-betting-2020&%24fallback_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.actionnetwork.co m%2Fnfl%2Fsuper-bowl-odds-chances-projections-betting-2020&_branch_match_id=704363653260913247

[Joemailman]

Bob McGinn:


Public niceties aside, my sense is LaFleur, fresh from a terrific 13-3 baptismal season, simply had enough of Rodgers’ act and wanted to change the narrative. With a first-round talent on the roster, the Packers would gain leverage with their imperial quarterback and his passive-aggressive style. If the Packers do indeed want to become a running team next season, they surely wouldn’t want Rodgers rocking the boat and becoming even more difficult to coach.

[GB-Brandon]

I don’t see what “leverage” the Packers have too gain. Sounds like if they don’t go into full damage control they could lose total control of the situation.

I’ve suggested in previous posts that the Packers need to do something to keep Rodgers happy for a two year window and then let him go where he wants to go as Brett Favre echoed similar thoughts today.

[Rastak]

I don’t see what “leverage” the Packers have gain. Sounds like if they don’t go into full damage control they could lose total control of the situation.

I’ve suggested in previous posts that the Packers need to do something to keep Rodgers happy for a two year window and then let him go where he wants to go as Brett Favre echoed similar thoughts today.


That's my take. No idea on the internal politics but smoothing things over while evaluating how Love is progressing while keeping an eye on the cap seems like the obvious course of action.

[GB-Brandon]

Was surprised to see the early Superb Owl odds post draft.

https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/super-bowl-odds-chances-projections-betting-2020?%243p=a_partnerize&%24affiliate_url=https%3A%2F%2Fprf.hn%2Fclick%2Fca mref%3A1100l8b2N%2Fpubref%3A124578X1617579Xb14bfcb fd434d40300af4be814ec81a0%5B%5Bsubaffiliatedomain% 3Afansided.com%5D%24canonical_url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2F www.actionnetwork.com%2Fnfl%2Fsuper-bowl-odds-chances-projections-betting-2020&%24fallback_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.actionnetwork.co m%2Fnfl%2Fsuper-bowl-odds-chances-projections-betting-2020&_branch_match_id=704363653260913247

Packers are dropping like a rock. Figures Vegas doesn’t like how this Rat smells either.

[wist43]

Bob McGinn:

McGinn is stealing my stuff, that's exactly what I said...

And just to put it out there - I am not Bob McGinn :)

[Bretsky]

McGinn is stealing my stuff, that's exactly what I said...

And just to put it out there - I am not Bob McGinn :)


HA; poll option

Who is Bob Mcginn.....me..wist...gb brandon....lol

[mraynrand]

30:1 for the Packers? How do I legally place a bet? Legal sports gambling bills haven't passed yet in Ohio. I think $500 is a good bet.

[pbmax]

wist carries more weight with me than McGinn at this point, but I don't trust this conclusion from either of them.

Though I am starting to wonder if Gute is much dumber than I thought.

[mraynrand]

HA...


Pittsburgh Steelers
@steelers
· 11h
Want a signed @_TJWatt mini helmet?

All you have to do is RT this tweet for a chance to win it!

[yetisnowman]

Imo the most likely outcome now is that Aaron leaves in a year or two, AND Jordan Love doesn't pan out as a franchise qb. It's weird how little this scenario is discussed comparatively. Like Love being a viable successor is just a foregone conclusion, and it's just a matter of when.

[sharpe1027]

Yeah because finding HOF QB’s is just so easy. Lol. We do it in our sleep.

So the answer is clear. Don't bother drafting QBs because the only acceptable outcome is getting a HOFer and odds are too bad of that happening.

Seriously though, you may need to take multiple shots to find a quality starter, more if you need a true elite QB. That is justification for drafting more QBs earlier, not less later

[texaspackerbacker]

Bob McGinn:

Public niceties aside, my sense is LaFleur, fresh from a terrific 13-3 baptismal season, simply had enough of Rodgers’ act and wanted to change the narrative. With a first-round talent on the roster, the Packers would gain leverage with their imperial quarterback and his passive-aggressive style. If the Packers do indeed want to become a running team next season, they surely wouldn’t want Rodgers rocking the boat and becoming even more difficult to coach.

McGinn has always been a piece of shit - an anti-Packer piece of shit.

[Upnorth]

Imo the most likely outcome now is that Aaron leaves in a year or two, AND Jordan Love doesn't pan out as a franchise qb. It's weird how little this scenario is discussed comparatively. Like Love being a viable successor is just a foregone conclusion, and it's just a matter of when.

I don't think anyone assumes love will be of, or even decent. but we hope he is and understand the timing.

[run pMc]

Imo the most likely outcome now is that Aaron leaves in a year or two, AND Jordan Love doesn't pan out as a franchise qb. It's weird how little this scenario is discussed comparatively. Like Love being a viable successor is just a foregone conclusion, and it's just a matter of when.

Agree - it's not a foregone conclusion. It does give them options and leverage.
Love gets this year to learn, next offseason to show if he's making a Year2 leap. If he's hot garbage, they dump him and keep Rodgers. If he's at least ok but Rodgers goes off and wins the Superb Owl they probably pull a Garrapolo and trade Love while keeping Rodgers but drafting another QB. If Love looks good they trade Rodgers after 2 years for a haul of picks.

When ARI drafted Rosen and then Murray in back to back years I thought they were Millen-level-crazy at first, but then I realized that if you are looking for a franchise type QB you have to spend the picks until you get one...and then you hang onto them as long as you realistically can. I think GB will do that until Rodgers forces their hand.

[Upnorth]

I hope we draft another QB next year. enough bullets and you eventually hit the target. We know arods end is 2-5 years. Gotta try

[sharpe1027]

Imo the most likely outcome now is that Aaron leaves in a year or two, AND Jordan Love doesn't pan out as a franchise qb. It's weird how little this scenario is discussed comparatively. Like Love being a viable successor is just a foregone conclusion, and it's just a matter of when.

Nobody is saying Love's a sure thing. Far from it.

Assuming a late first round pick is going be the difference maker that pushes a team to win the Superbowl...How do you view that?

[yetisnowman]

My view is that taking a WR, OL, LB in the 26-30 range and using the rest of the draft to be aggressive would have given us a better chance to compete for super bowls than Jordan Love has of being a franchise QB. Taking a final 4 team with a pro bowl QB and drafting for 1-3 seasons down the line is sort of unprecedented.

[wist43]

The timing wasn't right, and while there are similarities to the Favre situation - the main difference is Favre was doing the retirement dance every offseason while Rodgers has said he wants to continue playing.

Rodgers going off script had to be dealt with - how I'm not sure, and is debatable; but, I don't think this was the right way to go about it.

As for Love, if you watch his combine tape, he's very impressive. Crazy arm talent. Puts big air under the ball deep and can drop it in on-target. His mechanics looked better at the combine than on game film. His in-game decision making was very erratic.

In short, he is what his scouting report says, i.e. a bigtime talent with a lot of question marks.

If I had to bet, I'd say he's more likely to boom than bust, but it's going to take him a lot of time to get there... he's very raw.

[yetisnowman]

And I'm as critical of Aaron's big game chokiness as anyone, but I hate this offseason and the drama it creates. At least a year too early to be reaching and gambling trying to roll a hard 8.

[GB-Brandon]

So the answer is clear. Don't bother drafting QBs because the only acceptable outcome is getting a HOFer and odds are too bad of that happening.

Seriously though, you may need to take multiple shots to find a quality starter, more if you need a true elite QB. That is justification for drafting more QBs earlier, not less later

Many including myself had this team as being a few pieces away from being able to get over the hump on a 13-3 campaign and winning a Super Bowl. So with all the urgency to complete the puzzle I would argue trading up for Love instead of taking chances TO WIN NOW puts way more pressure on the JL pick to hit and for him to become something special.

For example, If all we ever get from this is a competent back up QB it would be widely considered a catastrophic failure.

[GB-Brandon]

The timing wasn't right, and while there are similarities to the Favre situation - the main difference is Favre was doing the retirement dance every offseason while Rodgers has said he wants to continue playing.

Rodgers going off script had to be dealt with - how I'm not sure, and is debatable; but, I don't think this was the right way to go about it.

As for Love, if you watch his combine tape, he's very impressive. Crazy arm talent. Puts big air under the ball deep and can drop it in on-target. His mechanics looked better at the combine than on game film. His in-game decision making was very erratic.

In short, he is what his scouting report says, i.e. a bigtime talent with a lot of question marks.

If I had to bet, I'd say he's more likely to boom than bust, but it's going to take him a lot of time to get there... he's very raw.

I share some of that sentiment. This move basically gives Gute/Lafluer 4 years to put things together.

[Packers4Glory]

My view is that taking a WR, OL, LB in the 26-30 range and using the rest of the draft to be aggressive would have given us a better chance to compete for super bowls than Jordan Love has of being a franchise QB. Taking a final 4 team with a pro bowl QB and drafting for 1-3 seasons down the line is sort of unprecedented.

not to mention a pro bowl WR and a pro bowl RB to go along with the new WR.

defensively whoever may have been drafted didn't need to carry the team. we have clark and the smiths. A rookie could have helped either area in a support role

[HarveyWallbangers]

Barnwell with a timely story that echoes what I've been saying about the 2005 draft.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29113276/2020-nfl-draft-surprises-why-did-packers-eagles-draft-quarterbacks-jordan-love-jalen-hurts


This situation isn't all that different from when the Packers drafted Rodgers in 2005.

I could do a whole other article on this, so let me be brief. With hindsight, we can look back and say that it was easy for the Packers to draft Rodgers and that there was a dramatic difference between him and Love as prospects. That's not realistic. There were plenty of reasons NFL teams were skeptical of Rodgers at the time, most notably the idea that he was another product of Jeff Tedford, who had sent first-rounders such as Akili Smith, Joey Harrington and Kyle Boller to the pros, only for them to fail.

The idea that Rodgers was in the mix for the first overall pick and then wasn't really an option for other teams before the Packers snapped him up at No. 24 is also revisionist history. The Dolphins drafted Ronnie Brown at No. 2 and started a 34-year-old Gus Frerotte at quarterback. The Browns added Braylon Edwards as opposed to upsetting their mix of Trent Dilfer and Charlie Frye. Teams starting Chris Simms, Mark Brunell, Drew Bledsoe, Jake Delhomme, Trent Green, Kyle Boller and Kerry Collins all passed on drafting Rodgers before the Packers took him. Most of the league passed on Rodgers until he fell to a roughly similar spot as Love.

[pbmax]

I think everyone is giving both Gute and The Flower too much credit for cunning.

I think the board fell this way and now they wait and hope it doesn't blow up in their face. Gute, as seems to be the new normal, isn't really excited about expending major capital on a WR unless its a big value.

The plan was that everyone will see it as reasonable. But if Rodgers doesn't agree, these two aren't going to get 4 years to straighten it out.

To go from 13-3 and hit .500 hard for 2-3 years won't do it.

[pbmax]

Barnwell with a timely story that echoes what I've been saying about the 2005 draft.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29113276/2020-nfl-draft-surprises-why-did-packers-eagles-draft-quarterbacks-jordan-love-jalen-hurts

Still think that list of QBs sells short the investment's teams made in those players. Either with money or draft picks, not every team on that list was in the market. We have John Schneider on record saying so.

Judging Boller, Delhomme or Warner or Simms a poor starting QB choice in 2005 is just as much revisionist history as saying Rodgers was a lock.

[Bretsky]

I think everyone is giving both Gute and The Flower too much credit for cunning.

I think the board fell this way and now they wait and hope it doesn't blow up in their face. Gute, as seems to be the new normal, isn't really excited about expending major capital on a WR unless its a big value.

The plan was that everyone will see it as reasonable. But if Rodgers doesn't agree, these two aren't going to get 4 years to straighten it out.

To go from 13-3 and hit .500 hard for 2-3 years won't do it.


Rodgers normally gets them to 8; so 10 is realistic IMO

If they no longer have an eiite QB's we'll be exposed if we continue to draft the way GUTEBAG has

Hopkins would look nice in G and G now, that's for sure.

[RashanGary]

On the bright side, rashan Gary is down to 275 pounds and moving like defensive back at that weight. Can't wait for the underwear Olympics :lol:

[RashanGary]

I did not think it was possible for Gute to be less popular than Ted in three short years, but fuck, he gutebagged us all and proved us wrong. Rashan Gary and Jordan Love. Ouch!

[mraynrand]

I did not think it was possible for Gute to be less popular than Ted in three short years, but fuck, he gutebagged us all and proved us wrong. Rashan Gary and Jordan Love. Ouch!

It's astonishing if you think about it. Had he drafted some fancy WR everyone would be kissing his hole.

[RashanGary]

It's astonishing if you think about it. Had he drafted some fancy WR everyone would be kissing his hole.

The real nuts and bolts of a football team :lol:

#2 WR

[pbmax]

Kruse at USAToday For The Win is posting about how the Packers 8th place offensive DVOA finish was mostly the run. Packers were ranked fourth with the run and 11th with the pass.

But I think that argues to solidify the pass game, not run better? More opportunity to improve?

[pbmax]

It's astonishing if you think about it. Had he drafted some fancy WR everyone would be kissing his hole.


If he gets Love at 30 and trades up for Pittman, he's a genius.

[Upnorth]

Kruse at USAToday For The Win is posting about how the Packers 8th place offensive DVOA finish was mostly the run. Packers were ranked fourth with the run and 11th with the pass.

But I think that argues to solidify the pass game, not run better? More opportunity to improve?

Very valid point. But if they think love is the man QB > wr by a mile

[GB-Brandon]

I think everyone is giving both Gute and The Flower too much credit for cunning.

I think the board fell this way and now they wait and hope it doesn't blow up in their face. Gute, as seems to be the new normal, isn't really excited about expending major capital on a WR unless its a big value.

The plan was that everyone will see it as reasonable. But if Rodgers doesn't agree, these two aren't going to get 4 years to straighten it out.

To go from 13-3 and hit .500 hard for 2-3 years won't do it.


Then they might want to start getting their resumes out cause they just cut their own throats.

[mraynrand]

Then they might want to start getting their resumes out cause they just cut their own throats.

you can't win in the NFL without a first or second round rookie WR

[yetisnowman]

If he gets Love at 30 and trades up for Pittman, he's a genius.

Nonsense. A lot of us would have hated Love at 30 just the same. Trading up was the icing on the cake.

[Smidgeon]

Bob McGinn:

I doubt this is accurate. Rodgers (before the draft) was on AJ Hawk's show and said that the disconnect between him and M4 was all media driven. That they got along "really fucking well". So any speculation about "tired acts" is clickbait as a direct source claims otherwise.

[call_me_ishmael]

I doubt this is accurate. Rodgers (before the draft) was on AJ Hawk's show and said that the disconnect between him and M4 was all media driven. That they got along "really fucking well". So any speculation about "tired acts" is clickbait as a direct source claims otherwise.

To be fair, what else is Rodgers going to say?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Still think that list of QBs sells short the investment's teams made in those players. Either with money or draft picks, not every team on that list was in the market. We have John Schneider on record saying so.

Judging Boller, Delhomme or Warner or Simms a poor starting QB choice in 2005 is just as much revisionist history as saying Rodgers was a lock.

There were a handful of teams (Miami, Cleveand, Tampa Bay, Washington, Oakland) on that list that had terrible QB situations. There were a few that had drafted guys in 2002 (e.g. Harrington in Detroit), but they had three years to show they didn't belong. There were a couple of teams (Arizona, Dallas) that went older free agent QBs, but not somebody you pass en elite QB prospect for. Teams in that draft were in worse shape at the QB position than teams in this year's draft. After the Chargers pick, there may have been two teams that needed a QB. Carolina with Bridgewater. Jacksonville with Minshew, but he had a solid rookie year.

Arizona - Murray
Cleveland - Mayfield
Jets - Darnold
Raiders - Carr
49ers - Jimmy G
Broncos - Lock
Falcons - Ryan
Cowboys - Prescott
Dolphins - just took Tua
Eagles - Wentz
Vikings - Cousins
Chargers - just took Herbert

[pbmax]

Nonsense. A lot of us would have hated Love at 30 just the same. Trading up was the icing on the cake.

True. But if you get a legit prospect as backup/future QB PLUS you get a WR, then the lack of DL is easier to understand.

For that matter, trading up in the second should cost less than the first round move. So maybe they keep a 4th or get an early 5th back. Then you get another stab at DL or ILB.

Even I would be hard pressed to be too upset if you address two needs AND get a legit backup.

[pbmax]

I think the difference in that Top 12-15 (Schneider said past 12-14 it wasn't clear who would take him, McKenzie remembers 15) is that in 2020 there were 3 QBs to choose from before Love. That satisfies the QB needy early.


McKenzie: Once he got past 15 or so, we were… looking at some of those other teams [ahead of us] and feeling like [a quarterback] was not a need for them. [Rodgers] could be a possibility. And the closer and closer it got, our discussion was that he could fall to us.

Mayock: John [Schneider, former Packers personnel analyst and current Seahawks general manager] and I have had a few laughs about that over the years, because he heard my evaluation on my mock draft prior to it [the draft], and he thought there was some merit to it.

The shock with Rodgers wasn't the slide from 14-24, it was from 2-13. He was the only other first round QB grade around.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2015/04/24/aaron-rodgers-alex-smith-2005-nfl-draft

[HarveyWallbangers]

Well, again, teams that needy at QB don't bypass truly elite QB prospects. Rodgers wasn't considered an elite QB prospect. There may have been talk of him going 1st because the 49ers were thinking about taking the hometown kid over another QB prospect (Alex Smith) that wasn't elite. As a prospect, Rodgers was closer to Love than Burrow or Tua. There were a lot of question marks surrounding him. That's why I give Thompson credit for drafting him. He wasn't a slam dunk--like Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, or Carson Palmer.

[pbmax]

Well, again, teams that needy at QB don't bypass truly elite QB prospects. Rodgers wasn't considered an elite QB prospect. There may have been talk of him going 1st because the 49ers were thinking about taking the hometown kid over another QB prospect (Alex Smith) that wasn't elite. As a prospect, Rodgers was closer to Love than Burrow or Tua. There were a lot of question marks surrounding him. That's why I give Thompson credit for drafting him. He wasn't a slam dunk--like Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, or Carson Palmer.

Going back to one year before Palmer, Top 5 picks only.

Sam Bradford, Trubisky, Goff, Winston, Bortles, Stafford, Sanchize, Russell, Young, Eli, Carr. All way over drafted if not outright busts.

Slam dunk prospect, I suspect, is more a state of mind than measurable state.

Even more likely, until recently, teams wanted QB to fit their offensive model and were almost unwilling to adjust.

[GB-Brandon]

Well, again, teams that needy at QB don't bypass truly elite QB prospects. Rodgers wasn't considered an elite QB prospect. There may have been talk of him going 1st because the 49ers were thinking about taking the hometown kid over another QB prospect (Alex Smith) that wasn't elite. As a prospect, Rodgers was closer to Love than Burrow or Tua. There were a lot of question marks surrounding him. That's why I give Thompson credit for drafting him. He wasn't a slam dunk--like Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, or Carson Palmer.


You are obviously just throwing the 17 interceptions out the window that JL threw last season alone with only 20 TD tosses. This is a serious concern and Rodgers didn’t have anywhere near this problem at Cal. For a team that wants to “run the football” and play ball control taking care of the football is a must.

[GB-Brandon]

Looks like Favre had more to say today.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/04/30/brett-favre-aaron-rodgers-feels-like-the-odd-man-out/

[GB-Brandon]

This is just such an amazing gesture by Favre to be there for Aaron as the Packer organization has unleashed a full out attack on Rodgers. I’m so glad Rodgers has Favre to help him navigate through this as the Packers try to basically smear Rodgers with the leak by Bob McGinn etc etc.

[Bretsky]

I did not think it was possible for Gute to be less popular than Ted in three short years, but fuck, he gutebagged us all and proved us wrong. Rashan Gary and Jordan Love. Ouch!



I'm thinking ET


ELIOOOOOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

ELLIOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Come back and be our GM ELIOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

[GB-Brandon]

The Packers better have some type of plan in place because this is not gonna go away. Gute gives Rodgers this huge guaranteed contract where they basically can’t get rid of him cap wise with nothing in place to off-set the blow. This is just INSANE!!

[RashanGary]

Rodgers tweeting tonight about his favorite Netflix show. Seems in good spirits. I'm sure he's faking the positive vibes and deep down he really wants to stick it to gute.

[Bretsky]

Rodgers tweeting tonight about his favorite Netflix show. Seems in good spirits. I'm sure he's faking the positive vibes and deep down he really wants to stick it to gute.


He won't go all Fare; he'll drop hints and use occasional sarcasm to let the media read ink. I'm figuring most coaches would hate those message tones

[RashanGary]

Ya know, its really not that awkward. Keep Aaron through ages, 36, 37 and 38. Trade him away at 39 if Love shows enough to feel confident in.

No more awkward than Brady leaving or Montana or.... Well, Favre made it weird. But still. Three years left to get one with Aaron! Let's go!!

[GB-Brandon]

Well, again, teams that needy at QB don't bypass truly elite QB prospects. Rodgers wasn't considered an elite QB prospect. There may have been talk of him going 1st because the 49ers were thinking about taking the hometown kid over another QB prospect (Alex Smith) that wasn't elite. As a prospect, Rodgers was closer to Love than Burrow or Tua. There were a lot of question marks surrounding him. That's why I give Thompson credit for drafting him. He wasn't a slam dunk--like Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, or Carson Palmer.

Also, i actually compared Burrow’s arm talent to one QB and his name wasn’t Jordan Love.

Guess who it was?

AARON CHARLES RODGERS!!!!!!!!!!!


I suppose you got it half right.

[GB-Brandon]

Jordan Love goes out and makes a few gunslinger Mahommes type throws across his body while throwing 17 interceptions and all the sudden the Packers basically mortgage the rest of the Rodgers era for him.

Unreal!

[RashanGary]

If Aaron handles this like a man, the whole lockerroom gonna have his back. They're all replaceable too, and they know it. They all kinda feel in this brutal business together when they see Aaron get the, "yeah, we're preparing for life without you" treatment. Really good omen for the lockerroom in 2020, that Aaron gets treated like one of the guys!

[GB-Brandon]

Ya know, its really not that awkward. Keep Aaron through ages, 36, 37 and 38. Trade him away at 39 if Love shows enough to feel confident in.

No more awkward than Brady leaving or Montana or.... Well, Favre made it weird. But still. Three years left to get one with Aaron! Let's go!!

If this gains even more steam and there is a football season this year and Rodgers is not happy then why would you keep him?

Do you really think this is gonna magically make Rodgers stop making audibles? If anything he might just run his playbook all game long. What does he have to lose at this point?

Is he all the sudden gonna change his entire personality?

[RashanGary]

Jordan Love goes out and makes a few gunslinger Mahommes type throws across his body while throwing 17 interceptions and all the sudden the Packers basically mortgage the rest of the Rodgers era for him.

Unreal!

He does a lot of things well. You look at his arm, his movement and escapability, all the pressure he faced and the off balance throws and moving throws that came with it.... He showed that he can do it all. His upside is huge. Not just physical talent, but he shows a knack under pressure and a knack to be able to make things happen.

Not saying it's gonna happen, but if we went back to back to back on all time QBs, it will be the first time ever and lifetimes of Packer fans will never really know what losing ever felt like.... Even going into their 40s and 50s.

Relax! This might work out, bud!

[RashanGary]

We are absolutely gonna go try to win one with Aaron next year, abd the year after and probably one more after that.

Defense is gonna be more veteran and cohesive this year. Run game is gonna be better. STs is solid. We're gonna win a bunch. Bet on it!

[mraynrand]

If this gains even more steam and there is a football season this year and Rodgers is not happy then why would you keep him?

Do you really think this is gonna magically make Rodgers stop making audibles? If anything he might just run his playbook all game long. What does he have to lose at this point?

Is he all the sudden gonna change his entire personality?

Well if this is the case then you either hire him as player/coach and save money as I suggested last year or you trade him.

But Rodgers would be smart to go along with the coach’s playbook given his diminishing skills. Not likely he can run the EO like he used to.

[mraynrand]

...the Packers basically mortgage the rest of the Rodgers era for him!

You write this like every first round pick from every team is a guaranteed pro bowl level talent. Or like the Packers have never blown a first round pick.

[Bretsky]

He does a lot of things well. You look at his arm, his movement and escapability, all the pressure he faced and the off balance throws and moving throws that came with it.... He showed that he can do it all. His upside is huge. Not just physical talent, but he shows a knack under pressure and a knack to be able to make things happen.

Not saying it's gonna happen, but if we went back to back to back on all time QBs, it will be the first time ever and lifetimes of Packer fans will never really know what losing ever felt like.... Even going into their 40s and 50s.

Relax! This might work out, bud!



He's a solid prospect; just two years early

Had we taken Patrick Queen in R2 and traded up and grabbed Mims in round two I'd be stoked at our shot to get to the Bowl

As nearly always, AROD will get us to the playoffs; the rest will get us bounced out of them shortly after

[Bretsky]

You write this like every first round pick from every team is a guaranteed pro bowl level talent. Or like the Packers have never blown a first round pick.


Gutebag is doin some blowin there

[Bretsky]

We are absolutely gonna go try to win one with Aaron next year, abd the year after and probably one more after that.

Defense is gonna be more veteran and cohesive this year. Run game is gonna be better. STs is solid. We're gonna win a bunch. Bet on it!



I hope you never ever change your name in PR to Jordan Love :))))

[sharpe1027]

Many including myself had this team as being a few pieces away from being able to get over the hump on a 13-3 campaign and winning a Super Bowl. So with all the urgency to complete the puzzle I would argue trading up for Love instead of taking chances TO WIN NOW puts way more pressure on the JL pick to hit and for him to become something special.

For example, If all we ever get from this is a competent back up QB it would be widely considered a catastrophic failure.

I don't really care whether it's "widely considered" a purple unicorn. What's relevant is how it helps the Packers. A competent backup is a likely outcome, but the same goes for any of the WRs we could have taken. It all comes down to which they liked more. If they were pinning the chances of winning this year on a late first round pick, we were probably screwed anyway. Since they probably weren't, this isn't really the big deal some are making it.

[GB-Brandon]

I don't really care whether it's "widely considered" a purple unicorn. What's relevant is how it helps the Packers. A competent backup is a likely outcome, but the same goes for any of the WRs we could have taken. It all comes down to which they liked more. If they were pinning the chances of winning this year on a late first round pick, we're were probably screwed anyway. Since they probably weren't, this isn't really the big deal some are making it.

“Wash, Rinse and Repeat”

Seems to be the same narrative every year. I thought this is why we replaced an ill Ted Thompson with Gute. Not sure this is the outcome everyone envisioned.

The best case scenario for these moves or lack of moves is to not have a season this year which I don’t think we will if I had to bet. Even if there is a season it will most likely be modified. If that is the case then this move to take Love would make sense because the Packers would be closer to getting out of Rodgers contract. I am sure the Packer brass did their due diligence in looking over the CBA to determine what the potential outcomes are if no 2020 season.

In a sense a cancelled season would trigger sort of a “NFL Re-Set”. Maybe this was the key contributor for the Packers to go the direction they did.

[sharpe1027]

“Wash, Rinse and Repeat”

Seems to be the same narrative every year. I thought this is why we replaced an ill Ted Thompson with Gute. Not sure this is the outcome everyone envisioned.

The best case scenario for these moves or lack of moves is to not have a season this year which I don’t think we will if I had to bet. Even if there is a season it will most likely be modified. If that is the case then this move to take Love would make sense because the Packers would be closer to getting out of Rodgers contract. I am sure the Packer brass did their due diligence in looking over the CBA to determine what the potential outcomes are if no 2020 season.

In a sense a cancelled season would trigger sort of a “NFL Re-Set”. Maybe this was the key contributor for the Packers to go the direction they did.

Maybe it's this complex planning based on contingencies they can't control. Or maybe they just liked Love more than anyone else left on their board and saw good value.

Hard to say which seems more plausible.

[RashanGary]

Maybe it's this complex planning based on contingencies they can't control. Or maybe they just liked Love more than anyone else left on their board and saw good value.

Hard to say which seems more plausible.

Well, thats not very fun internet banter material now is it, Sharpe :lol:

[sharpe1027]

Well, thats not very fun internet banter material now is it, Sharpe :lol:

Sorry. I'll go back to my corner. Carry on.

[Joemailman]

He's a solid prospect; just two years early

Had we taken Patrick Queen in R2 and traded up and grabbed Mims in round two I'd be stoked at our shot to get to the Bowl

As nearly always, AROD will get us to the playoffs; the rest will get us bounced out of them shortly after

The pick is 2 years early only if you assume that Rodgers will start for the Packers for the next 4 years. Given Rodgers recent career trajectory, It's not surprising Gutey and MLF were not willing to assume that. After 6 straight years of a passer rating over 100, he's had just 1 in the last 5. If Love turns out to be the player the Packers expect, the likelihood is that they would trade or release Rodgers after the 2021 season. At that point, Love should know the offense well, and the Packers would create significant salary cap room by moving Rodgers. I think Rodgers would have to play significantly better than he played in 2019 to be here 4 more years.

[pbmax]

Sorry. I'll go back to my corner. Carry on.


https://i.imgur.com/Ap20u6k.gif

[pbmax]

The pick is 2 years early only if you assume that Rodgers will start for the Packers for the next 4 years. Given Rodgers recent career trajectory, It's not surprising Gutey and MLF were not willing to assume that. After 6 straight years of a passer rating over 100, he's had just 1 in the last 5. If Love turns out to be the player the Packers expect, the likelihood is that they would trade or release Rodgers after the 2021 season. At that point, Love should know the offense well, and the Packers would create significant salary cap room by moving Rodgers. I think Rodgers would have to play significantly better than he played in 2019 to be here 4 more years.

Drafting a QB, especially after his comments before the draft, is not unexpected by Gute. Its completely understandable.

What hurt was that it seems to have cost them fortifying other positions of greater immediate need. Positions they don't like to draft high.

So its not baffling, just very frustrating.

[Bretsky]

The pick is 2 years early only if you assume that Rodgers will start for the Packers for the next 4 years. Given Rodgers recent career trajectory, It's not surprising Gutey and MLF were not willing to assume that. After 6 straight years of a passer rating over 100, he's had just 1 in the last 5. If Love turns out to be the player the Packers expect, the likelihood is that they would trade or release Rodgers after the 2021 season. At that point, Love should know the offense well, and the Packers would create significant salary cap room by moving Rodgers. I think Rodgers would have to play significantly better than he played in 2019 to be here 4 more years.



If Rodgers is playing 3 more years I'm drafting a QB 2 years from now so he has one year on the bench to watch and learn.

Then I'm spending a bunch of money to build talent around him for a 4 year run

[falco]

The pick is 2 years early only if you assume that Rodgers will start for the Packers for the next 4 years. Given Rodgers recent career trajectory, It's not surprising Gutey and MLF were not willing to assume that. After 6 straight years of a passer rating over 100, he's had just 1 in the last 5. If Love turns out to be the player the Packers expect, the likelihood is that they would trade or release Rodgers after the 2021 season. At that point, Love should know the offense well, and the Packers would create significant salary cap room by moving Rodgers. I think Rodgers would have to play significantly better than he played in 2019 to be here 4 more years.

I think this is it in a nutshell. This gives the Packers a great succession plan towards the future for all possible scenarios except for the case where Rodgers declines too quickly and Love is a bust, which is a better position than they were in a week ago.

[RashanGary]

If Rodgers is playing 3 more years I'm drafting a QB 2 years from now so he has one year on the bench to watch and learn.

Then I'm spending a bunch of money to build talent around him for a 4 year run

In a perfect world, a HOFer just naturally falls to you just the year before your HOF QB hits the wall.

But if ya pick him and he sits for 2 or 3, beats the shit outta not picking him.

[Bretsky]

In a perfect world, a HOFer just naturally falls to you just the year before your HOF QB hits the wall.

But if ya pick him and he sits for 2 or 3, beats the shit outta not picking him.



Are you saying the Love Train is going to be a HOF'er ?

[RashanGary]

Are you saying the Love Train is going to be a HOF'er ?

Saying you take your swings at hof skillsets when you get the chance

[RashanGary]

And you cabt pick what year theyrre gonna fall to you. So it can't be that perfect world, or at least very rarely is

[mraynrand]

In a perfect world, a HOFer just naturally falls to you just the year before your HOF QB hits the wall.

But if ya pick him and he sits for 2 or 3, beats the shit outta not picking him.

Preach it.

[pbmax]

I am not as convinced Harv is that Rodgers flaws made him fall to number 24, but it definitely was a part of it, especially early in the round.

Love has that same feeling. He seems nearly a perfect fit. Just enough off about him to drop, but obvious physical skill and some good successes.

I just wish it hadn't cost the fourth rounder.

[GB-Brandon]

“Purgatory”

https://www.newsbreakapp.com/n/0OwZWwXI?pd=02g6SRym&s=i0

[pbmax]

“Purgatory”

https://www.newsbreakapp.com/n/0OwZWwXI?pd=02g6SRym&s=i0

Well if Sportsnaut is reporting it, it must be true.

[Bretsky]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/draft/2020/04/25/nfl-draft-grades-2020-teams-packers-eagles-cowboys-dolphins/3026362001/


\
Draft Grades; we weren't the worst !!!!

[GB-Brandon]

Somehow Mike Pettine comes away from all this unscathed which makes it almost unbearable. The dysfunction is unreal.

Even if this team somehow finds a way to contend and continues to win close games I still have zero faith Mike Pettine will be able too deliver a “championship game plan.”

[Bretsky]

Is Pettine really that big of an upgrade over Dom ? I know how Wist responds; but I'm curious about the rest. To me, they are both average

[Joemailman]

I think Pettine's job is on the line this year. To get blown out of a game where the other team doesn't have to throw the ball is unreal in this NFL. We'll see if he can the necessary adjustments that good coaches have to make.

[texaspackerbacker]

The gripe against Capers was that teams figured him out, and he wasn't able to counter the adjustments. That already appeared to be happening with Pettine at times last season. Partly, it was personnel weakness - those Northwestern pigs, etc., but a lot of other teams seem like they do a better job of covering up or overcoming their personnel problems. One thing Capers and Pettine had in common was being almost religiously opposed to zone coverage in our secondary. There were people our top Corner, Alexander, just couldn't cover consistently, and King and the rest got beat it seemed like more than half the time. Zone coverage might have helped that. It might also have helped against the run.

[GB-Brandon]

The thing is I don’t think Belichick himself could of made those Capers defenses much better. Capers was trying to create a pass rush with an aging Clay Matthews and two pretty big busts in Nick Perry and Datone Jones. Capers was able to get some stuff out of Julius Peppers. He was using UDFA ILB’s like Sam Barrington and Joe Thomas. Low budget guys up front were Letroy Guion and Mike Pennel. Throw in bad draft picks across the secondary mostly and it was a disaster.

Pettine has more talent to work with. To me Pettine is a guy who can give you a top 10 defense “IF” you give the guy mass talent at just about every position.

[mraynrand]

To me Pettine is a guy who can give you a top 10 defense “IF” you give the guy mass talent at just about every position.

Kinda going out on a limb here, aren’t ya?

[RashanGary]

Is Pettine really that big of an upgrade over Dom ? I know how Wist responds; but I'm curious about the rest. To me, they are both average

One day it's, "Aaron Rodgers gets them to the playoffs but the lack of team talent kills them"

The next day it's, "Pettine isn't getting the most of the talent on defense"


Maybe you'd be taken more seriously if you had gripes that lined up with each other, rather than just being negative about everything.

[run pMc]

TEH SKY IZ FALLIN GB REBUILDN NO TALNT N DUM COACHES FIRW GUTE

[ThunderDan]

One day it's, "Aaron Rodgers gets them to the playoffs but the lack of team talent kills them"

The next day it's, "Pettine isn't getting the most of the talent on defense"


Maybe you'd be taken more seriously if you had gripes that lined up with each other, rather than just being negative about everything.

How don't those two points line up? We have been drafting heavily on D for years until this last draft. Our biggest FA pick ups have been on the D side of the ball. The D has been getting the majority of the "investments" into the team.

Our D should be leaps ahead. So it is either Pettine isn't able to get the most out of his players or Gute hasn't gotten him the pieces he needs. 2019 was better than 2018 but we spent a lot of money in FA on that side of the ball so there should have been a jump.

And trust me, I take Bretsky's posts a lot more seriously than your posts if you want to start playing that game.

[GB-Brandon]

One day it's, "Aaron Rodgers gets them to the playoffs but the lack of team talent kills them"

The next day it's, "Pettine isn't getting the most of the talent on defense"


Maybe you'd be taken more seriously if you had gripes that lined up with each other, rather than just being negative about everything.


“Negative About Everything”?

Just because someone “critically thinks or questions” which many believe is warranted they’re being “Negative”?

If people want to call a blue sky purple then that’s they’re choice but that doesn’t make the person calling the sky blue wrong or negative.

[Zool]

TEH SKY IZ FALLIN GB REBUILDN NO TALNT N DUM COACHES FIRW GUTE

Well it is May?

[Smidgeon]

Well it is May?

"The Sky Is Falling" in May. Hmm. No Apocalypse Bingo yet. Maybe June will bring "Unnatural Darkness", then I'll have Apocalypse Bingo for sure!

[Zool]

https://i.redd.it/3l62p3h44ow41.jpg

[pbmax]

I'm not saying the sky is falling, but I do have some complaints.

And I think GB-Brandon's point of investments is spot on. Its almost as if, without an announcement, they Packers spent 4 years moving away from QB led offense to the Ravens model considering the improvements they did not make to the offense until this draft. And it was all before that Raven dude got hired.

And Pettine is absolutely on a hot seat and Gute shouldn't buy a large house.

But its not as bad as Murder Hornets.

[ThunderDan]

I'm not saying the sky is falling, but I do have some complaints.

And I think GB-Brandon's point of investments is spot on. Its almost as if, without an announcement, they Packers spent 4 years moving away from QB led offense to the Ravens model considering the improvements they did not make to the offense until this draft. And it was all before that Raven dude got hired.

And Pettine is absolutely on a hot seat and Gute shouldn't buy a large house.

But its not as bad as Murder Hornets.

It was my idea. GB-Brandon was talking about blue and purple skies.

[pbmax]

It was my idea. GB-Brandon was talking about blue and purple skies.

True, Brandon preferred the apocalyptic metaphor.

But I think he was also banging on about the help that both Capers and Pettine have received without much in the way of results for quite a while now, especially before the draft. He's not the only person who has ever mentioned it, but I think its a correct point and worth repeating.

And it was underway well before LaFleur or Gute or the Ravens personnel dude arrived. wist has been on it for a long time.

The Packers, perhaps by virtue of QB first posture, simply get more value from picks on offense regularly than compared to their D picks.

[mraynrand]

True, Brandon preferred the apocalyptic metaphor.

But I think he was also banging on about the help that both Capers and Pettine have received without much in the way of results for quite a while now, especially before the draft. He's not the only person who has ever mentioned it, but I think its a correct point and worth repeating.

And it was underway well before LaFleur or Gute or the Ravens personnel dude arrived. wist has been on it for a long time.

The Packers, perhaps by virtue of QB first posture, simply get more value from picks on offense regularly than compared to their D picks.

I thought the consensus was more that the defensive picks were poor, rather than their utilization being terrible. I guess with Capers, most ended up believing 'both'

Pettine should have his feet to the fire. Not being able to adjust in that NFCC game was astonishing. If they can't counter SF this year, he should lose his job. Not saying they have to shut SF down, but he'd better not get gashed again. There's no reason they can't match KC's effort. (should be better actually).

I am placing all my hopes on the emergence of Burks.

[GB-Brandon]

I thought the consensus was more that the defensive picks were poor, rather than their utilization being terrible. I guess with Capers, most ended up believing 'both'

Pettine should have his feet to the fire. Not being able to adjust in that NFCC game was astonishing. If they can't counter SF this year, he should lose his job. Not saying they have to shut SF down, but he'd better not get gashed again. There's no reason they can't match KC's effort. (should be better actually).

I am placing all my hopes on the emergence of Burks.

Yet another senseless trade up.

[mraynrand]

Yet another senseless trade up.

almost certainly true

[Smidgeon]

It was my idea. GB-Brandon was talking about blue and purple skies.

Murder Hornets. I knew I missed one on my bingo card!

[GB-Brandon]

There is a move out there that could set this whole thing off.

Hope Gute has the balls to pull it off.

[pbmax]

I thought the consensus was more that the defensive picks were poor, rather than their utilization being terrible. I guess with Capers, most ended up believing 'both'

Pettine should have his feet to the fire. Not being able to adjust in that NFCC game was astonishing. If they can't counter SF this year, he should lose his job. Not saying they have to shut SF down, but he'd better not get gashed again. There's no reason they can't match KC's effort. (should be better actually).

I am placing all my hopes on the emergence of Burks.

A few players have gone on to have decent if not spectacular careers. Pennel is still playing and starting I believe. Zombo played for a while. Hyde has been good as a safety and Hayward good at CB.

But you are correct, Datone Jones did not go elsewhere and light up the world and I think Nick Perry has just retired, though 2 contracts make his case different.

A lot more blown picks in the secondary.

I suppose I come down on equal blame. There were some drafted players and the scheme often refuse to accommodate the better of them. Pettine hasn't done that yet, but it is early in his tenure. He has had more pieces that late stage Capers and less to show for it. In retrospect, I think insisting on retaining Pettine was probably a mistake, as it usually is

I still think that the issue with the Packers long term defensive woes come down to getting limited players who can do what the coaches want (coaches choice) and the Packer preference to have higher upside athletes.

[wist43]

I am placing all my hopes on the emergence of Burks.

I'm thinking he'll be cut this year... 1st round athlete, UDFA as a football player.

[mraynrand]

I'm thinking he'll be cut this year... 1st round athlete, UDFA as a football player.

I think at worst he ends up like Jarett Bush or Jeff (All Pro WR per Tex) Janis. - a ST specialist who stays on the roster unless other LB depth is significantly better and can play ST too.

[Bretsky]

There is a move out there that could set this whole thing off.

Hope Gute has the balls to pull it off.



You mean trading for Pitt stud WR who apparently is on the market ?

[GB-Brandon]

You mean trading for Pitt stud WR who apparently is on the market ?

You read my mind. :glug:

[Bretsky]

You read my mind. :glug:



But realistically the harder questions are

1. Would you trade draft capital for a one year rental, or would you ask Russ Ball to work magic and sign him to a long term deal as part of the trade

2. Under both scenarios, what would you give up for him ??

[wist43]

But realistically the harder questions are

1. Would you trade draft capital for a one year rental, or would you ask Russ Ball to work magic and sign him to a long term deal as part of the trade

2. Under both scenarios, what would you give up for him ??

Not sure who you're talking about, but given what Gute did in the draft, I don't think the short term matters at all.

We're not going anywhere this year, and most likely next year either. Rodgers will be gone for sure before the 2022 season, so now Love is your new starting QB - so that takes 2023 out of the mix in terms of contending.

So that, realistically, brings you to 2024 being the first year you might-could contend.

By 2024, both Smith's and Amos are gone; Adams, Bahk, and Clark will all be getting gray by then; you know they won't do anything to fix LB; Jones will be gone and Dillon, if he stays healthy, will have a ton of mileage on his body, as he already has 900 carrys coming into the pros; and they still have glaring vacancies at DL, WR, and OT.

2024 is an entirely different roster before you might be able to contend - so no, you don't trade away any draft capital.

If anything, I would be looking to deal pieces we already have. Problem with that is we don't have any depth.

[GB-Brandon]

Not sure who you're talking about, but given what Gute did in the draft, I don't think the short term matters at all.

We're not going anywhere this year, and most likely next year either. Rodgers will be gone for sure before the 2022 season, so now Love is your new starting QB - so that takes 2023 out of the mix in terms of contending.

So that, realistically, brings you to 2024 being the first year you might-could contend.

By 2024, both Smith's and Amos are gone; Adams, Bahk, and Clark will all be getting gray by then; you know they won't do anything to fix LB; Jones will be gone and Dillon, if he stays healthy, will have a ton of mileage on his body, as he already has 900 carrys coming into the pros; and they still have glaring vacancies at DL, WR, and OT.

2024 is an entirely different roster before you might be able to contend - so no, you don't trade away any draft capital.

If anything, I would be looking to deal pieces we already have. Problem with that is we don't have any depth.

I’m not so sure about that. You go out and get JuJu and along with Adams you now have the best or one of the best 1-2 punches in the NFL. I am very very high on Dillon and all the sudden you have potentially one of the best 1-2 punches at RB. “Thunder and Lightning”

We would need Wagner to hold up at RT but all the sudden with the mix and matching with new personnel(Sternberger, Deguara) we have something formidable here. This move would certainly have Rodgers “All-In” as he wants a ring badly.

All of this might give our defense a chance with “Playing Ahead”

I would be pretty excited if Gute could pull it off.

[GB-Brandon]

But realistically the harder questions are

1. Would you trade draft capital for a one year rental, or would you ask Russ Ball to work magic and sign him to a long term deal as part of the trade

2. Under both scenarios, what would you give up for him ??

I’d go long term with him as Adams probably won’t be re-signed with a 3rd contract. You basically stabilize the receiver position for a few years which gives the Packers another chance to draft one next year to develop to replace Adams.

If they could get him for a 2nd that would be amazing considering that could be a pick in the 60’s..

[GB-Brandon]

Maybe you could also package in Jamaal Williams in for JuJu too.

[Bretsky]

I’d go long term with him as Adams probably won’t be re-signed with a 3rd contract. You basically stabilize the receiver position for a few years which gives the Packers another chance to draft one next year to develop to replace Adams.

If they could get him for a 2nd that would be amazing considering that could be a pick in the 60’s..


I don't know how we can afford him next year. Let's assume he gets 12-14MIL/Year

How do we make cap room for that ?

I would not give up a 2nd w/o an extension.

Then again, I should really be all in for trading our entire draft for players who can play :)))

[run pMc]

They won't go after JuJu unless they got him very cheap as a one year rental. No cap space.
They will look at who gets cut. All these WR draft picks are going to push some veterans out, ones better than Ryan Grant who could contribute right away.

[GB-Brandon]

I don't know how we can afford him next year. Let's assume he gets 12-14MIL/Year

How do we make cap room for that ?

I would not give up a 2nd w/o an extension.

Then again, I should really be all in for trading our entire draft for players who can play :)))

I don’t like how the Packers do this cap thing where they balance the budget three years down the road. I’m convinced it has cost us championships. Generally, the cap thing works it way out with some players regressing or getting injured along with following certain re-signing principles that the Packers usually follow(which I do like)

If everyone hits and plays like all-stars then I would certainly take having a Lombardi in the showroom and having to make some tough decisions on a couple guys over the current situation of putting up with mediocrity. I’m really not sure what we’re saving up for.

[pbmax]

No one is getting big deals unless you are a core member of the team this offseason.

Too much uncertainty about the cap in 2021.

[GB-Brandon]

No one is getting big deals unless you are a core member of the team this offseason.

Too much uncertainty about the cap in 2021.

That’s fine but why do we need to make all these decisions now with so much uncertainty? They say there gonna play so put the best roster together to win now. “Now is all you have”. Time usually works these decisions out that need to be made later one way or another.

Trying to create a 2-3 crystal ball with so much uncertainty is like trying to conquer a Roulette Table.

They certainly didn’t maximize there cap situation correctly with the timing of the Rodgers extension along with the JL pick. Go get a receiver that helps us win now. They have planned enough for the future with there big draft pick.

[RashanGary]

That’s fine but why do we need to make all these decisions now with so much uncertainty? They say there gonna play so put the best roster together to win now. “Now is all you have”. Time usually works these decisions out that need to be made later one way or another.

Trying to create a 2-3 crystal ball with so much uncertainty is like trying to conquer a Roulette Table.

They certainly didn’t maximize there cap situation correctly with the timing of the Rodgers extension along with the JL pick. Go get a receiver that helps us win now. They have planned enough for the future with there big draft pick.

Do you ever get sick of yourself?

[Radagast]

Rebuilding, as I've said before, is an incorrect term. You rebuild a team by continuing to replace players/fill needs as you always have. GB, with the arrival of Pettine and LaFleur (and Gutekunst's promotion to GM), the Packers began to evolve with new thinking and new ways of building a winning team. Too many in the media and in the forums are so accustomed to the traditional ways that teams address concerns and don't see how GB has been on the road less traveled. That will make all the difference.

[PackerGold]

These picks do nothing to improve the 2020 team...

Dillion and Josiah Duhwtf will play and contribute, but their impact will be very modest.

Love of course is a long-term project - and a big project at that. He's got terrible mechanics, is inaccurate, makes poor decisions, and makes an incredible number of poor throws. He's got one hell of a long way to go before he can even serve as the game day backup.

So, given that this draft is going to provide no help this year, and Rodgers will be one year closer to calling it a career - the following might be our near term reality:

1) Rodgers will certainly be gone after 2022, if not 2021.

2) P Smith is on a 3 year deal and is likely gone after 2021.

3) Ditto for Amos.

4) Z Smith is on a 4 year deal and will be over 30, so he's gone thereabouts.

5) Bacteria will probably be gone after 2020.

6) Jones will be gone next year.

7) Adam's will be getting long in the tooth.

That's 3-4 years with no realistic shot at a Championshp, and a pretty depleted roster by 2022.

We can't expect Gute will do anything to actually flesh out the roster - so I'm guessing our best hope is that we fail spectacularly enough to be able to dump Gute and Lefluer after the 2022 season.

That's the only lipstick I can put on this pig. Horrific last 2 days for the Green Bay Packers.

Pig it is. In reading everything out there on AJ Dillion, there are more unkowns than known about how he will do in the NFL. I equate drafting AJ Dillion to draft Rashad Gary in 2019. A very large player and fast but booth may end up a bust, and costing a high draft pick in the process. AJ Dillion was rated the no 12 running back for a reason. Yes, he will play this year because Gute and HC have to save face. Just like playing Rashad Gary last year which didn't work out well. Rashad Gary shows up at the first practice with a shoulder brace. Not good. My forecast for Dillon is that he will be marginally effective but will he earn the No. 2 draft pick he got, NO.

My largest concern is Aaron Rogers. Pretty much everyone agrees not much was done to help Aaron and the team one game away from the Super bowl. With four years left on his contract, I believe Gute & HC will play Aaron, the team will move backward and finish 10-6, make the playoffs and loose early on and then a trade will be made with Aaron. We have two drafts under the belt now for Gute and LaFluer and at the end of both my question is the same, why?

[PackerGold]

Nothing make sense from the last two drafts. Last year, Rashad Gary No1 pick. How did that go in 2019? This year, the combination of Love and Dillon draft picks 1 &2. The first three picks make or breaks a team over the long-term. I looked at players who went undrafted like Benito Jones DT which we need desperately, and Hunter Bryant TE which we need desperately and their combine ratings are higher than 7-8 of the draft picks the Packers selected. Why move up four positions and give up a 4th round pick, when they could have got Love at No. 30. After two drafts, I am beginning to wonder how knowledgeable Gute and LaFluer really are and if they have a plan, it doesn't sound like a good one, if they do.

[falco]

https://i.imgflip.com/411hdx.jpg

[mraynrand]

lol

[Upnorth]

One good thing about the uncertainty is that all teams are facing it. Might make for some bargains now.

[gbgary]

covid will trash the 2021 cap. it's bite the bullet time. Packers will need to shed contracts/talent. it's time to start blowing things up. trade jones now and get something for him. release rodgers and bakhtiari (and whoever else to get by) next off-season.

https://twitter.com/KenIngalls/status/1260580502626603008

[mraynrand]

covid will trash the 2021 cap. it's bite the bullet time. Packers will need to shed contracts/talent. it's time to start blowing things up. trade jones now and get something for him. release rodgers and bakhtiari (and whoever else to get by) next off-season.

https://twitter.com/KenIngalls/status/1260580502626603008

Stop

[GB-Brandon]

covid will trash the 2021 cap. it's bite the bullet time. Packers will need to shed contracts/talent. it's time to start blowing things up. trade jones now and get something for him. release rodgers and bakhtiari (and whoever else to get by) next off-season.

https://twitter.com/KenIngalls/status/1260580502626603008

This has actually been my one caveat with the Jordan Love pick.

[mraynrand]

This has actually been my one caveat with the Jordan Love pick.

Realistically there’s two years before any blow up, doncha think?

[pbmax]

covid will trash the 2021 cap. it's bite the bullet time. Packers will need to shed contracts/talent. it's time to start blowing things up. trade jones now and get something for him. release rodgers and bakhtiari (and whoever else to get by) next off-season.

https://twitter.com/KenIngalls/status/1260580502626603008

They will have to negotiate a percentage drop in all contracts for 2021 if this does come true.

No way does the cap drop and all contracts remain the same.

[mraynrand]

They will have to negotiate a percentage drop in all contracts for 2021 if this does come true.

No way does the cap drop and all contracts remain the same.

Maybe they can hire the same guys who assessed home values for property taxes in 2009.

[gbgary]

This has actually been my one caveat with the Jordan Love pick.
the 2021 cap demolition puts this last draft into perspective. tackle, QB, and RB...3 big contracts gone. they definitely can't keep Jones. let Bakh walk. cut/trade Rodgers after 2020 season will save, at the very least, $5m. think I read if they trade him they can split the dead cap charge over two years. that would save them even more in 2021.

[GB-Brandon]

Realistically there’s two years before any blow up, doncha think?

I don’t know. I went to get some take out today and drove by Lambeau on my way. As some might know people paint the fences across from the stadium with “New Slogans” from time to time. The fence that used to say “Hail Rodgers” was painted with “A New Star A New Era”. I Was gonna pull around and take a pic but didn’t want to get my food to get cold. I will get a pic next time.

I thought that was very interesting.

[mraynrand]

I don’t know. I went to get some take out today and drove by Lambeau on my way. As some might know people paint the fences across from the stadium with “New Slogans” from time to time. The fence that used to say “Hail Rodgers” was painted with “A New Star A New Era”. I Was gonna pull around and take a pic but didn’t want to get my food to get cold. I will get a pic next time.

I thought that was very interesting.

That is interesting, but obviously premature. How exciting will the preseason games be?!

[red]

I like jones, think he’s a really good running back, but I strongly believe that in this day and age, you don’t spend for a RB

It’s kind of a shit thing to be a running back these days. You take a massive beating, and play a huge role in the game, but by the time your rookie contract is up, you’re almost over the hill.

I would be honestly trying to trade him right now, especially with the second round pick added to the pretty solid stable of RBs we already have

[GB-Brandon]

That is interesting, but obviously premature. How exciting will the preseason games be?!

I’m not certain of anything right now. From what I’ve read fans won’t be allowed at camp. There will be no mini-camp. Training camp will be cut short. I have not idea how many pre-season games there will actually be. I’m about 99 percent sure no family night scrimmage. Players will have to sign waivers. Obviously no fans in the stadium. League is prepared to play Super Bowl in empty stadium. Any uptick in Covid and the whole season probably goes up in smoke.

League will play games that certain states won’t allow in closest states that will allow play.

[GB-Brandon]

the 2021 cap demolition puts this last draft into perspective. tackle, QB, and RB...3 big contracts gone. they definitely can't keep Jones. let Bakh walk. cut/trade Rodgers after 2020 season will save, at the very least, $5m. think I read if they trade him they can split the dead cap charge over two years. that would save them even more in 2021.

I never thought they would re-sign Jones even before this new cap stuff. Somebody will be willing to overpay.

[Sparkey]

They will have to negotiate a percentage drop in all contracts for 2021 if this does come true.

No way does the cap drop and all contracts remain the same.

It's more likely they come up with a formula where teams can stretch the cap guys of their top 5 or 10 players over a five year period. Sort of like how the NBA does it. There is no way the players associations let's teams adjust contracts unilaterally.

[pbmax]

the 2021 cap demolition puts this last draft into perspective. tackle, QB, and RB...3 big contracts gone. they definitely can't keep Jones. let Bakh walk. cut/trade Rodgers after 2020 season will save, at the very least, $5m. think I read if they trade him they can split the dead cap charge over two years. that would save them even more in 2021.

They did not prep their entire draft in anticipation of the cap implosion.

They were obviously counting on it rising. Same as every other team.

This infatuation with low QB contracts is ignoring one important point. There is no evidence that Gute believes in it.

[gbgary]

They did not prep their entire draft in anticipation of the cap implosion.

They were obviously counting on it rising. Same as every other team.

cap implosion? no...but they already knew the 2021 cap space was going to be next to nothing with Rodgers drawing $36m. all covid did was insure even more contracts would have to be shed and hasten the needed rebuild. these draft picks, imo, reflect the contract dump. they know the Rodgers SB window is closed. they'll let fans fool themselves. in the meantime they have an even leaner 2021 to prepare for than they thought.

[pbmax]

cap implosion? no...but they already knew the 2021 cap space was going to be next to nothing with Rodgers drawing $36m. all covid did was insure even more contracts would have to be shed and hasten the needed rebuild. these draft picks, imo, reflect the contract dump. they know the Rodgers SB window is closed. they'll let fans fool themselves. in the meantime they have an even leaner 2021 to prepare for than they thought.

I guess we will see in 2021 then.

For what it is worth, Andy Herman laid out the scenario for you: https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/Article/Why-an-Aaron-Rodgers-trade-could-come-sooner-than-you-think-147055106/

I would like to say that if Gute has decided to go the cheap QB route, he has to take the cap hit in one year so he can spend some FA money while Love is cheap in years 3,4 and possibly 5. So the cap savings aren't going to help in 2021. They'd be carrying a dead cap hit of $30 mil or so.

If he is after cap savings, it will be a post-June 1 trade and will mean that the Packers will not go the traditional route and sign a bunch of FAs to help.

I don't think either is likely in 2021 given what we know now. Love has to develop and Rodgers is less likely to get hurt in this offense.

[texaspackerbacker]

There's not gonna be any cap implosion ....... Sheeesh, the idiotic ideas some people come up with.

[run pMc]

I agree with tex. I think they will pull some kind of "extreme circumstances" clause or something and freeze the cap for one year. The NFLPA don't want to have a bunch of players kicked to the curb, and the players sure don't want to take a pay cut.

Might create a lot of excitement if teams do have to slash cap space, but I also think the owners would rather not have the chaos, and the "shrinking middle class players" wouldn't want to get gutted from rosters.

[pbmax]

I agree with tex. I think they will pull some kind of "extreme circumstances" clause or something and freeze the cap for one year. The NFLPA don't want to have a bunch of players kicked to the curb, and the players sure don't want to take a pay cut.

Might create a lot of excitement if teams do have to slash cap space, but I also think the owners would rather not have the chaos, and the "shrinking middle class players" wouldn't want to get gutted from rosters.

This is all dependent on the owner's receiving a near normal amount fo revenue. If that doesn't happen, then it won't be just a freeze.

[red]

This is all dependent on the owner's receiving a near normal amount fo revenue. If that doesn't happen, then it won't be just a freeze.

if there are no fans in the stands, then by just doing some real quick shitty math ($150x70,000x8 games) each team is gonna lose between 75 and 100 million, just in ticket revenue, not to mention game day merch, concesions and parking.

teams would be out a lot of money. if the cap just freezes, the owners would take all of that loss

i don't see that happening

[ThunderDan]

if there are no fans in the stands, then by just doing some real quick shitty math ($150x70,000x8 games) each team is gonna lose between 75 and 100 million, just in ticket revenue, not to mention game day merch, concesions and parking.

teams would be out a lot of money. if the cap just freezes, the owners would take all of that loss

i don't see that happening

You forgot the 2 preseason games.

And the business in Green Bay will get decimated also. I had a client who owned a couple of hotels in the area. It was 3 nights max rate every home game. He figured it dropped $50,000 a weekend to his bottom line.

[GB-Brandon]

You forgot the 2 preseason games.

And the business in Green Bay will get decimated also. I had a client who owned a couple of hotels in the area. It was 3 nights max rate every home game. He figured it dropped $50,000 a weekend to his bottom line.

Things are getting ready to “Go On Sale” that’s for sure.

[wist43]

By the time the season starts - hopefully enough people will have figured out just how much of a hype the whole coronavirus thing was, and the stadiums will be full.

Some states are beginning to revise down the number of coronavirus deaths from what they had previously reported - in the face of pressure to continue lying. Colorado has revised their numbers down by 23%, and the Governor is taking a lot of heat for simply telling the truth.

More still, even the revised numbers will still be high. Some states, and some businesses, have strong financial and political motivations to keep lying and try to make it seem worse than it is.

More and more people are catching on though; so, hopefully by football season the jig will be up, and we'll be back somewhere close to normal.

[ThunderDan]

By the time the season starts - hopefully enough people will have figured out just how much of a hype the whole coronavirus thing was, and the stadiums will be full.

Some states are beginning to revise down the number of coronavirus deaths from what they had previously reported - in the face of pressure to continue lying. Colorado has revised their numbers down by 23%, and the Governor is taking a lot of heat for simply telling the truth.

More still, even the revised numbers will still be high. Some states, and some businesses, have strong financial and political motivations to keep lying and try to make it seem worse than it is.

More and more people are catching on though; so, hopefully by football season the jig will be up, and we'll be back somewhere close to normal.

No they don't, there is no reason to lie about the numbers.

[SudsMcBucky]

No they don't, there is no reason to lie about the numbers.

There is. Hospitals receive an additional $13k for listing a patient as Covid. Now, I'm not necessarily saying there's intentional fraud, but the potential incentive is certainly there.

[pbmax]

No they don't, there is no reason to lie about the numbers.


There is. Hospitals receive an additional $13k for listing a patient as Covid. Now, I'm not necessarily saying there's intentional fraud, but the potential incentive is certainly there.


By the time the season starts - hopefully enough people will have figured out just how much of a hype the whole coronavirus thing was, and the stadiums will be full.

Some states are beginning to revise down the number of coronavirus deaths from what they had previously reported - in the face of pressure to continue lying. Colorado has revised their numbers down by 23%, and the Governor is taking a lot of heat for simply telling the truth.

More still, even the revised numbers will still be high. Some states, and some businesses, have strong financial and political motivations to keep lying and try to make it seem worse than it is.

More and more people are catching on though; so, hopefully by football season the jig will be up, and we'll be back somewhere close to normal.

There are plenty of places on this board to discuss these matters. But this thread isn't one of them.

Back to the topic please.

[falco]

Back to the topic please.

COVID-19 is like 6 degree of Kevin Bacon. Regardless of topic, you can find yourself arguing about it within 6 posts in a thread... :O

Thx PB for reframing, once again.

[falco]

I assume there is some sort of force majeure clause built into the CBA with provisions for a disruption like this. I can't see the owners paying full salaries while revenues decline that sharply and just allowing the salary cap to make up for it in subsequent years.

[pbmax]

This is interesting. Love's fifth year option can get kinda pricey. Even Mike Glennon pricey.


Participating in 75 percent of offensive plays in two of the first three seasons of the deal or an average of at least 50 percent offensive playtime in each of his first three seasons will set Love's fifth-year salary at the average of the third through 20th-highest salaries for quarterbacks in 2023. If Love doesn't fall into any of these three categories, his fifth-year salary will be the average of the third through 25th-highest salaries for quarterbacks. This number is currently $17.54 million.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-heres-when-the-packers-should-trade-aaron-rodgers-based-on-how-his-contract-is-structured/

I had no idea those kind of escalators were available.

[ThunderDan]

This is interesting. Love's fifth year option can get kinda pricey. Even Mike Glennon pricey.



https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-heres-when-the-packers-should-trade-aaron-rodgers-based-on-how-his-contract-is-structured/

I had no idea those kind of escalators were available.

Either number would be a bargain in 2024 if the salary cap kept going up like it has.

[pbmax]

Either number would be a bargain in 2024 if the salary cap kept going up like it has.

Not such a sure thing these days.

However, I am more thinking how this impacts a decision to keep or trade Rodgers (assuming they like what they see from Love). Even if Love qualifies for nothing but the basic escalator, he gets a basically guaranteed $17 mil.

If he starts to play serious minutes, the higher the odds are that the Packers sign him to a deal after Year 3. Assuming they still like him.

[RashanGary]

That 5th year option will be pricy..... But, I'm a big enough Rodgers fan and have enough confidence in his physical skills hanging on, especially with how little physical risk he took last year. Not quite Brees level *get the ball out* but a lot closer than he's been.

Unless love impresses the living shit out of those coaches over the next 3 years, I'm content with the possibility of paying him that 5th year option to see if he can play (assuming hes shown them enough for that)

The love situation is interesting. I have no guess right now.

[RashanGary]

In the sense of 6'4", an athletic 225 pounds along with a cannon arm, NFL mobility and the ability to unleash passes off balance.... Love is an extremely interesting prospect. Favre, Big Ben, AR, Watson, Mahomes, Wilson.... That off schedule skillset has been hyper successful in the NFL lately, as killing QBs has been ruled out of the game.

But as Turdbuscuit showed us in shitcago, this dude could be an epic bust.

Half of our first round picks bust. It's not like we gave up a sure Kenny clark. Shit, it could be a sherrod. We have 5 years to decide if this guy is our back to back to back HOF off schedule NFL QB candidate.

He has HOF upside, but it's the NFL. It's rare. I understand taking the gamble though. And now we watch it play out.

[pbmax]

That CBS Sports article contains my current, least favorite point:


Rodgers sat behind first-ballot Hall of Fame quarterback Brett Favre for three years after he unexpectedly fell to the 24th overall pick in the 2005 draft. Teams no longer keep quarterbacks taken in the first round on the bench for an extended period of time, as Green Bay did with Rodgers. The Chiefs essentially redshirting 2018 NFL MVP Patrick Mahomes during his rookie year in 2017 is considered exercising patience with quarterbacks nowadays.

No one was making the QBs wait three years. This is nostalgia based on nothing. Marino started 9 games his rookie season. Elway 10. Ken O'Brien 5. Tony "FREAKING" Eason started 4 games. Do you know who waiting for a year to groom himself before starting? Todd Blackledge. Because he wasn't an NFL quality starter.

[Zool]

That CBS Sports article contains my current, least favorite point:



No one was making the QBs wait three years. This is nostalgia based on nothing. Marino started 9 games his rookie season. Elway 10. Ken O'Brien 5. Tony "FREAKING" Eason started 4 games. Do you know who waiting for a year to groom himself before starting? Todd Blackledge. Because he wasn't an NFL quality starter.

So I suppose you're telling me the Steelers aren't a run-first team?

[gbgary]

well...heard on nfl network that, because of the obvious coming cap loss for the 2021 season, there's some discussion in the league that they may want to mitigate some of that by taking some money out this year. lol. that would screw the Packers, and teams like them with little cap room, this year AND next.

[run pMc]

Fire stupid GM Eliot Wolf for not drafting Ozmataz Buckshank in the 2028 draft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l9SDAqAV3U

CLEARLY he was the best player available and they are screwed forever now. They are hopeless and will only win 3 games this year. I saw this coming.
This is a catastrophe, an apocalypse, a baby shower without Chardonnay. Abandon all hope, ye who cheer for them.

[gbgary]

There's not gonna be any cap implosion ....... Sheeesh, the idiotic ideas some people come up with.
https://overthecap.com/nfl-asks-for-175m-2021-salary-cap/
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2021/
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-proposes-2021-nfl-salary-cap-floor-at-175-million-due-to-covid-19-pandemic/
lol soooo...possible flat-cap set for the next 3-4 years at a $175m minimum. could be higher (hope it's at close to 2020 level {$198}). implosion, trashed, were pretty apt descriptions i think. any extensions, re-ups, pushed-back money coming due (rodgers), new signings, etc are ALL up in the air now going into 2021. a clearer picture beyond 2021 depends on what they do during the 2020 off-season.

[Upnorth]

I am incredibly happy they took a shot at a qb now plus the swing at the running game. Great way to free up $ plus we cant afford jones

[GB-Brandon]

I just don’t think a lot of us expected such a rushed and massive rebuild.

[Upnorth]

If the cap does fall by evan half as much as many are projecting a lot of teams are going to be rebuilding. Anyone notice where NE is for 2021 cap space?http://https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2021/

[GB-Brandon]

Players valuations and expectations of future contracts are gonna have to change as there will probably be some re-pricing if these numbers take effect.

[Rastak]

Players valuations and expectations of future contracts are gonna have to change as there will probably be some re-pricing if these numbers take effect.

As Wyatt Earp said in Tombstone. "That's a fact".

[mraynrand]

If you're not re-building, you're re-dying.