2020 Wide Receivers

[Sparkey]

Is a slot receiver already on the roster ? Nmely Reggie Begelton

https://totalpackers.com/2020/04/reggie-begelton/amp/



Davante Adams
17 WR 6-1 215 27 7 Fresno State
Reggie Begelton
84 WR 6-0 200 26 1 Lamar
Devin Funchess
11 WR 6-4 225 25 6 Michigan
Jake Kumerow
16 WR 6-4 209 28 3 Wisconsin-Whitewater
Allen Lazard
13 WR 6-5 227 24 2 Iowa State
Darrius Shepherd
9 WR 5-11 186 24 2 North Dakota State
Equanimeous St. Brown
19 WR 6-5 214 23 3 Notre Dame
Malik Taylor
86 WR 6-2 216 24 1 Ferris State
Marquez Valdes-Scantling
83 WR 6-4 206 25 3 South Florida

[HarveyWallbangers]

We don’t need no stinkin’ slot receiver. We’re going 12 personnel all day baby.

[SMBASS]

Rob Demovsky

@RobDemovsky
·
1m

Gutekunst said he doesn't necessarily agree this was the strongest WR draft class top to bottom. He loved the top but sounds like he didn't evaluated the class as highly as others.

[HarveyWallbangers]

ESB and Adams in the slot, when we go three wide. The Funchise and The Lizard on the outside.

[Freak Out]

Any chance we make a trade for Edelman? Is he even worth it at this point?

[Bretsky]

Well.........They can Block good !!!!

[GB-Brandon]

We don’t need no stinkin’ slot receiver. We’re going 12 personnel all day baby.

Lol. Yeah. I suppose they can try anything. Too bad they don’t have overall personal to pull of off.

Looks like the Packers might have a new “Pipe Dream” to pump massive capital into with failed results.

[texaspackerbacker]

I guess LaFleur didn't see the benefit in a speed guy to stretch the field like I and some others saw. Oh well; Maybe the guys that took the team to 13-3 plus a playoff win last year know more than we do.

Just improvement of what we have plus maybe Begelton should mean things ain't that bad.

[run pMc]

Has there been a CFL receiver that has ever gone on to do well in the NFL? Just curious.
I am absolutely stunned and deeply concerned that they didn't draft a single WR in what was widely considered (if not by Gute) to be a historically good draft for WR. The WR group they had last season weren't exactly keeping DC's up at night working out special coverages.

Maybe the plan is to copy SF by running the ball so much they only ask Rodgers to throw 8 passes a game. Drafting a RB, H-Back and 3 OL would certainly point to a commitment to the running game like few I've seen.

[red]

If the plan is to become a running team they better step a-rod of his ability to audible at the line

[GB-Brandon]

I guess LaFleur didn't see the benefit in a speed guy to stretch the field like I and some others saw. Oh well; Maybe the guys that took the team to 13-3 plus a playoff win last year know more than we do.

Just improvement of what we have plus maybe Begelton should mean things ain't that bad.

When all else fails. It’s “Bagelton to the rescue” lol

He is a 4.6ish guy I believe.

[Sparkey]

https://lastwordonprofootball.com/2020/01/09/reggie-begelton-packers-wide-receivers-group/

The Bagelman delivered last year.

[Upnorth]

Has there been a CFL receiver that has ever gone on to do well in the NFL?

Not that I can think of. It is one of the areas that don't cross over well. I think our bigger field reduces the need for small area quickness so our stars who get brought down have a different skills than what is prioritized in the NFL.
One thing I have noticed is the CFL tends to be about 5-10 years ahead in the general direction that offensive strategy goes. When the NFL focused on single back stud rb, we were moving to committee backfield. When the NFL was quick read pocket passer we were scramble qbs. When the NFL was 3,5,7 step drops we were short route quick release. Just a couple of broadbrush generalizations to show trends. The CFL has been doing the return to the rushing focus for about 5 to 10 years now we are seeing in the NFL the last couple years so I think it's going to spread more down south in the NFL. Not saying rushing is more important, just it is gaining importance.

Getting back to wrs, I read Percy harvin wants back in. Now that would be an interesting piece to pick up for a possible tryout...

For the record I pray that stampeders dickwad is good enough to stick with the Packers because he was hard to match up against. He was a difference maker up here and I hated watching him in that red and white uniform. Saw him take over a game we were up by at least 10 points and just shredded us in the second half...

[mraynrand]

When the NFL was 3,5,7 step drops we were short route quick release.

So are you saying the West Coast Offense should really be the Hudson Bay Offense?

[run pMc]

Random thought: What if the problem with the WRs was Alvis Whitted?

I'm wondering if Gute is going to pick thru the veteran cuts that are going to happen with all these WRs getting drafted, or if he's going to poach WRs off teams' practice squads.

[smuggler]

RIP Darrius Shepherd

You are the weakest link.

[Tony Oday]

We went a lot of draft Captial on MVS and ESB, we have a diamond in the rough Lazard, elite #1 in Adams, now one of these young guys needs to step up in their third year.

Also how would a rookie do with AR when they will not ha e OTAs or anything like that?

[texaspackerbacker]

RIP Darrius Shepherd

You are the weakest link.

Shepherd's competition isn't those other WRs so much as it's Tyler Irvin. To me, Irvin is nothing special, and I'd like to see Shepherd show some improvement and beat him. But then again, Shepherd even if you take away his blunders wasn't all that special either. Maybe Dequoy beats both of them out.

[run pMc]

I think Malik Taylor, Bagelman and Kumerow are Sheppard's competition. I don't see Darius making the cut.
Tyler Ervin can at least return punts and ran a 4.41 40. Sheppard didn't exactly impress last year with routes or punts, runs a 4.6, and I think his upside is very limited. Ervin's better now and I expect still will be in Week 13.

[GB-Brandon]

This receiver room overall is pathetic.

[Upnorth]

It has Adams so pathetic is a bit of an over statement. Remove all teams #1 wr and we are definitely bottom 5 imo.

[pbmax]

If they cut Swervin' Ervin for Shepard its going to get ugly again on ST.

[Carolina_Packer]

Random thought: What if the problem with the WRs was Alvis Whitted?

I'm wondering if Gute is going to pick thru the veteran cuts that are going to happen with all these WRs getting drafted, or if he's going to poach WRs off teams' practice squads.

Especially if any WR from an offense that matches LaFleur's or a similar system gets cut and can still play.

I was talking to my son about his desire for the Packers to draft a receiver high in the draft. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just throwing it out there that Aaron is not like Brett in that if you gave Brett a weapon, he seemed more open to trying to utilize it, and it didn't seem to need this breaking in period that we've seen with Rodgers seeming to need with other receivers. The point is, even if you draft a receiver early, there is no guarantee that Rodgers will develop chemistry with him right away, enough to make a difference, or possibly even at all. The advantage with Rodgers always seems to go to the established players. Yes, I wish they had actually drafted a receiver, but if it's between a guy who might not be able to make the roster, or a guy who can help the depth on the O or D line, I think the front office was clearly more in favor of the latter.

[beveaux1]

Especially if any WR from an offense that matches LaFleur's or a similar system gets cut and can still play.

I was talking to my son about his desire for the Packers to draft a receiver high in the draft. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just throwing it out there that Aaron is not like Brett in that if you gave Brett a weapon, he seemed more open to trying to utilize it, and it didn't seem to need this breaking in period that we've seen with Rodgers seeming to need with other receivers. The point is, even if you draft a receiver early, there is no guarantee that Rodgers will develop chemistry with him right away, enough to make a difference, or possibly even at all. The advantage with Rodgers always seems to go to the established players. Yes, I wish they had actually drafted a receiver, but if it's between a guy who might not be able to make the roster, or a guy who can help the depth on the O or D line, I think the front office was clearly more in favor of the latter.

I certainly don't think they purposely didn't draft a WR because Rodgers seems to prefer more seasoned WRs over unproven ones. What I do believe is that after the first couple of rounds, the WRs on the board would have needed more practice and polish to provide much help to this team in the near term. The WRs on the roster, although an admittedly pedestrian group, have worked with Rodgers for some time, and would be ahead of the curve. This is especially true if we have limited training camp.

I believe our best bet for improving this position is to pick up a veteran cut and hope for some improvement from the 3rd year veterans.

Remember how much they used Ryan Grant after acquiring him. That should tell you the relative strength of the WRs on the roster and tell you how good that veteran has to be to see playing time.

[Packers4Glory]

54% of our snaps last year went to undrafted receivers

[Bretsky]

It has Adams so pathetic is a bit of an over statement. Remove all teams #1 wr and we are definitely bottom 5 imo.



You Kidding ? Stop being nice .


Remove the #1's we are last

[wist43]

I could see Begelton win the slot job... he's a pretty good player. A little hard to evaluate though, because of the level of competition.

[GB-Brandon]

I could see Begelton win the slot job... he's a pretty good player. A little hard to evaluate though, because of the level of competition.

Yep, level of competition and playing on some huge ass field which allows him to overcome being SLOW.

I will be targeting him at camp(if there is a camp) to see if he can get separation. It’s a huge question mark. I wouldn’t be cashing any checks on it.

[texaspackerbacker]

Did he return kicks in Canada?

[GB-Brandon]

Did he return kicks in Canada?

Not that I am aware of.

[Deputy Nutz]

Here is crazy stat, Aaron Rodgers has thrown exactly one touchdown pass to first round draft pick during his entire career.


Can you name him?

[mraynrand]

Here is crazy stat, Aaron Rodgers has thrown exactly one touchdown pass to first round draft pick during his entire career.


Can you name him?

Gardner?

(nope, was gone before Rodgers took a snap)

[mraynrand]

Save Ferris: Malik Taylor = Donald Driver II

well, maybe not. But it's the offseason.

[mraynrand]

Here is crazy stat, Aaron Rodgers has thrown exactly one touchdown pass to first round draft pick during his entire career.


Can you name him?

Former Bears running back....

[mraynrand]

Here is crazy stat, Aaron Rodgers has thrown exactly one touchdown pass to first round draft pick during his entire career.


Can you name him?

Lance Kendricks (2nd, no!)
Justin Perillo (lol)
Cook (3rd, no!)

[mraynrand]

Former Bears running back....

NO!


Marcedes Lewis!

[Deputy Nutz]

NO!


Marcedes Lewis!

Winner, Winner.....

[run pMc]

I certainly don't think they purposely didn't draft a WR because Rodgers seems to prefer more seasoned WRs over unproven ones. What I do believe is that after the first couple of rounds, the WRs on the board would have needed more practice and polish to provide much help to this team in the near term. The WRs on the roster, although an admittedly pedestrian group, have worked with Rodgers for some time, and would be ahead of the curve. This is especially true if we have limited training camp.

I believe our best bet for improving this position is to pick up a veteran cut and hope for some improvement from the 3rd year veterans.

Remember how much they used Ryan Grant after acquiring him. That should tell you the relative strength of the WRs on the roster and tell you how good that veteran has to be to see playing time.

I agree that expecting much from a rookie WR is asking a lot, even in a year that doesn't have camps impacted by pandemics. For me, it's as much about the end of the season and beyond -- finding a running mate/successor for Adams -- as anything else. That Jordan Love is the 1st R1 offense pick in the Rodgers era is stunning, and speaking poorly to the defensive coaching.

I do hate this draft. I do not think they are rebuilding or giving up on the Rodgers era -- Rodgers is gonna be a maniac trying to stick it to MLF and Gute, MLF is getting the players he probably wants from Gute now that he's had a season to see the roster, and they are making serious investments to becoming a running team. I'd still like them to improve their receivers -- it is a passing league, after all.

Looking at how the board fell, I can see where they would not have picked WRs after Day2 -- there weren't a lot of great choices when their turn kept coming up. Trading the R4 pick to move up to 26 really hamstrung them IMO and forced them to reach for the TE a round early and took away some flexibility for moving around on Day3 or up on Day2. Ex. trading the R2 and R4 or R5 to move up enough to take Jefferson or Mims.

I'm not sold on the WR group as-is, or that adding Bagel Man and Funchise will make a huge difference (even if it is an upgrade over Allison and Grant). Maybe Year 2 in the system and Year 3 for ESB/MVS/Lazard will be the difference, but I wouldn't count on it. I guess running more makes it less of an issue?

[wist43]

Here is crazy stat, Aaron Rodgers has thrown exactly one touchdown pass to first round draft pick during his entire career.


Can you name him?

BJ Raji

[run pMc]

I believe our best bet for improving this position is to pick up a veteran cut and hope for some improvement from the 3rd year veterans.
A number of WRs listed here as possible cuts/trades. Surprised they listed Jamaal over Lane Taylor though.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29101985/32-nfl-players-most-likely-cut-traded-2020-nfl-draft

[Sparkey]

If someone is interested, Begelton's pro day workout in 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56-Uc6vNOwA

[Bretsky]

hitting new lows hyping our new WR hopefuls

Bring back Billy Schroeder !!!!!

[GB-Brandon]

hitting new lows hyping our new WR hopefuls

Bring back Billy Schroeder !!!!!

Yeah. Lol. I used to get bought into it too. Not now after I’ve seen 6 years of late round busts and “UDFA Feel Good Stories”

They do this every year. Let’s make believe we have Jerry Rice and nobody just knows it yet.

[Sparkey]

Actually, nobody knows. Yet there are some that seem to enjoy being that proud peacock that never shuts up.

In regards to Begelton, what I see is someone who has improved each year in the CFL. Last year, his third year, he made a huge leap in production. Will it translate to the NFL? Only time can answer that question. But I dare say, he has a better chance, this season, to help the Packers than any receiver available to GB at the end of round 2.

[Bretsky]

Actually, nobody knows. Yet there are some that seem to enjoy being that proud peacock that never shuts up.

In regards to Begelton, what I see is someone who has improved each year in the CFL. Last year, his third year, he made a huge leap in production. Will it translate to the NFL? Only time can answer that question. But I dare say, he has a better chance, this season, to help the Packers than any receiver available to GB at the end of round 2.



I would agree, seeing we ignored them all and he might make the team :))))

[GB-Brandon]

We’ve entered “Wide Receiver Rock Bottom”

Sign no.3- Hoping and praying a CFL refugee becomes your savior!!!

[pbmax]

We’ve entered “Wide Receiver Rock Bottom”

Sign no.3- Hoping and praying a CFL refugee becomes your savior!!!

I'd settle for #3.

Maybe Matthias, not Christ or even Paul.

[mraynrand]

We’ve entered “Wide Receiver Rock Bottom”

Sign no.3- Hoping and praying a CFL refugee becomes your savior!!!

Maybe signing a second round WR (Packers don’t
Like first round WRs) free agent would be a better plan.

[texaspackerbacker]

I read about a rumor that we might trade for Curtis Samuel of the Panthers - 4.31 speed and just 23 years old. I'd like to see that a lot more than trading for Aiyuk.

[Bretsky]

I read about a rumor that we might trade for Curtis Samuel of the Panthers - 4.31 speed and just 23 years old. I'd like to see that a lot more than trading for Aiyuk.

don't think we're getting Aiyuk, but i"d take him over Samuel for sure.

At this point beggers can't be choosers. I'll take Sumuel

[RashanGary]

Predictions

Davante Adams will play in the slot a bunch
Lazard will be our #2


After that, it's gonna be a bunch of guys mixed and moved around depending on situation.

[texaspackerbacker]

Clearly they have decided to go with size rather than blazing speed. I and maybe some others in here would like some smaller faster WRs, but we're not the ones getting paid to make the decisions. And despite all the whiny shit talked by many in here, I can't help but think Aaron Rodgers is in on the decision process - remember, he heaped a lot of praise on Lazard, and Adams - who really isn't a burner - is far and away his favorite. Kumerow too, to a lesser extent. MVS, on the other hand, as fast as he is, doesn't seem to be on Rodgers' good list.

Myself, for years I thought and said we needed to get more size at WR. I could see this group being at least as good as Jennings, Nelson, Driver, and Jones. I'm not saying they are there yet, but other than Adams, they are just starting out. I'd argue Adams is better than any of those four from 2010.

I've read posts by somebody in here maybe blaming Whitted for things like poor route running/not getting open. I see a lot of pretty lame-assed receivers from other teams get open on us. Maybe our DBs are just worse, but I suspect it is because whoever is designing pass routes for us has been deficient. That is part of the WR coach's job description, right?

[Bossman641]

I could see this group being at least as good as Jennings, Nelson, Driver, and Jones. I'm not saying they are there yet, but other than Adams, they are just starting out.

Wow...pass the koolaid

[Bretsky]

I could see this group being at least as good as Jennings, Nelson, Driver, and Jones. I'm not saying they are there yet, but other than Adams, they are just starting out. ?



Holy Sh@t Tex; you deserve this...dumb@ss.......... :)

[run pMc]

They aren't as good as the 2010 and 2011 group. They might be better than we're giving them credit for.
Link compares 2nd season of a few WRs:

http://pfref.com/tiny/wRxYY

[Upnorth]

They aren't as good as the 2010 and 2011 group. They might be better than we're giving them credit for.
Link compares 2nd season of a few WRs:

http://pfref.com/tiny/wRxYY

Now that is interesting... nice post! Still not overly optimistic about our wr, but that is interesting.

[texaspackerbacker]

Adams, of course, gives the current bunch a head start. I doubt even ya'all detractors would disagree that he is better than whoever would be considered the best of those 2010 guys. I have always thought - and the careers of the 3 who left the Packers give evidence - that the greatness of Aaron Rodgers made these guys seem way better than what they were. Jordy in his pre-injury years might be an exception, but Jennings and Jones commanded big money elsewhere and generally disappointed the teams paying them.

I, for one, have a high opinion of Lazard. St. Brown is a clean slate who sure looked good before he got hurt. And I still have hope for Valdez-Scantling too - how could you not have hope for somebody 6'4" who runs a 4.35 40? Even Kumerow looked good for a bottom of the receiver group UFA. And Funchess, who I really didn't want, who knows just how good he can be with the GOAT throwing it to him?

Damn straight I'm drinking the Kool-Aid. You pukes who refuse, how did that negativity work out for you last season? Or basically any season where Aaron Rodgers has stayed healthy?

[ThunderDan]

So ……

Devante in 2018 for a full year 111 catches 1,386yards 13 TDs 12.5 yards per catch
Jennings in 2010 76 catches 1,265 yards 12 TDs 16.6 yards per catch

[MadtownPacker]

Interesting stats considering Adams earns his yards shaking and baking while Jennings more of a deep pass big play type.

[Fritz]

Damn. I'm rooting for The Bagelman.

[GB-Brandon]

https://www.newsbreakapp.com/n/0OyvFJ0g?pd=02g6SRym&s=i0

I’d be more focused about getting open and catching the ball and making the team Marquez!!!

[Joemailman]

https://www.newsbreakapp.com/n/0OyvFJ0g?pd=02g6SRym&s=i0

I’d be more focused about getting open and catching the ball and making the team Marquez!!!

Because it's impossible to express support for his QB AND focus on improving his own performance?

[GB-Brandon]

Because it's impossible to express support for his QB AND focus on improving his own performance?

Chirp Chirp.

A couple times now. Reminds me of Jarret Boykin. I don’t consider MVS to be anything more then a reserve sticking around for a couple years on a real NFL receiving Corp roster.

It’s really too bad that this is the best we can do. I never thought it could get this bad.

[pbmax]

Chirp Chirp.

A couple times now. Reminds me of Jarret Boykin. I don’t consider MVS to be anything more then a reserve sticking around for a couple years on a real NFL receiving Corp roster.

It’s really too bad that this is the best we can do. I never thought it could get this bad.

He has skills that Boykin could only dream about, but he has some deficits (catching the ball, competing for the ball) that aren't easily overcome.

[bobblehead]

Chirp Chirp.

A couple times now. Reminds me of Jarret Boykin. I don’t consider MVS to be anything more then a reserve sticking around for a couple years on a real NFL receiving Corp roster.

It’s really too bad that this is the best we can do. I never thought it could get this bad.

I still believe that the 2nd year slump that MVS encountered had a lot to do with injury. It mirrors James Jones 2nd year so much its spooky. He worked out hard last offseason and had an incredible camp. This year is huge for him.

[run pMc]

I still believe that the 2nd year slump that MVS encountered had a lot to do with injury. It mirrors James Jones 2nd year so much its spooky. He worked out hard last offseason and had an incredible camp. This year is huge for him.

I'm sure there are still some good "Davante Adams should be cut" posts out here from after his 2nd season.
MVS is a raw prospect, this is the year he has to show progress. Might have been injuries, but he had lost the faith of the coaches somewhere after mid-season.

This was an interesting story about the throwing to MOF vs. sidelines: https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-the-numbers/2020/5/7/21247582/aaron-rodgers-packers-pass-direction-middle-of-field-shot-selection-2019

Maybe the WRs should try running routes in the MOF? Maybe replacing Graham will help?

[pbmax]

I still believe that the 2nd year slump that MVS encountered had a lot to do with injury. It mirrors James Jones 2nd year so much its spooky. He worked out hard last offseason and had an incredible camp. This year is huge for him.

Huge if true. He had some nice moments early in the year.

[beveaux1]

This was an interesting story about the throwing to MOF vs. sidelines: https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-the-numbers/2020/5/7/21247582/aaron-rodgers-packers-pass-direction-middle-of-field-shot-selection-2019

The article brings up something that I've commented on a few times in the past, as well as other posters.
My feeling has always been that he avoids the middle of the field because of the possibility of tipped balls and interceptions.

It's a high percentage throw, but can be a dangerous throw.

I noticed that SF avoids the sideline like GB avoids the middle of the field. Kind of interesting.

[bobblehead]

I'm sure there are still some good "Davante Adams should be cut" posts out here from after his 2nd season.
MVS is a raw prospect, this is the year he has to show progress. Might have been injuries, but he had lost the faith of the coaches somewhere after mid-season.

This was an interesting story about the throwing to MOF vs. sidelines: https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-the-numbers/2020/5/7/21247582/aaron-rodgers-packers-pass-direction-middle-of-field-shot-selection-2019

Maybe the WRs should try running routes in the MOF? Maybe replacing Graham will help?

Last pre season I saw Boyle bust the seam up the middle to Tonyan a few times. I commented that if I didn't see the play again that it was no longer fat mikes fault, but on ARod since we now know its in the playbook....anyone remember Tonyan or anyone splitting that seam open for a 20 yarder??

[pbmax]

Last pre season I saw Boyle bust the seam up the middle to Tonyan a few times. I commented that if I didn't see the play again that it was no longer fat mikes fault, but on ARod since we now know its in the playbook....anyone remember Tonyan or anyone splitting that seam open for a 20 yarder??

What is this? Janis logic?

:lol:

[GB-Brandon]

I'm sure there are still some good "Davante Adams should be cut" posts out here from after his 2nd season.
MVS is a raw prospect, this is the year he has to show progress. Might have been injuries, but he had lost the faith of the coaches somewhere after mid-season.

This was an interesting story about the throwing to MOF vs. sidelines: https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-the-numbers/2020/5/7/21247582/aaron-rodgers-packers-pass-direction-middle-of-field-shot-selection-2019

Maybe the WRs should try running routes in the MOF? Maybe replacing Graham will help?

I’m sure we can even find more posts of using this analogy on several others that didn’t improve. Not gonna take the time to list them all. Adams was a different story then them all. He was a 2nd round pick and much higher graded player coming out of Fresno State. He also showed and flashed as a rookie which proved he was worth the pick. He Had huge games his rookie season in big wins vs New England and Dallas in the playoffs. He had Aaron Rodgers gushing about him during his rookie camp comparing him to “Greg Jennings Talent”.

His second year he had a pretty severe ankle injury that he tried to play through and couldn’t plant which his whole game revolves around if you watch his route running. It made it so he couldn’t beat “press coverage”. His confidence went down and he caught a case of the dropsies. He got healthy and never looked back. Too me comparing Scantling to Adams is like comparing a Malibu to a Mercedes. MVS was drafted in the 5th round for a reason. He is a slightly better version of Trevor Davis which is basically some straight line speed and not much else. HE WILL NEVER be able to win in short spaces or areas and isn’t a great natural catcher of the football. THIS IS A PIPE-DREAM!!

For this to be our big Hope is just bullshit. It’s very undermining and reckless of Gute to say the least.

[Joemailman]

I still believe that the 2nd year slump that MVS encountered had a lot to do with injury. It mirrors James Jones 2nd year so much its spooky. He worked out hard last offseason and had an incredible camp. This year is huge for him.

It'll be interesting to see if he can bounce back. It's easy to forget he had 400+ receiving yards through 7 games. He had 30 the rest of the season.

[GB-Brandon]

He isn’t fluid and can’t glide. He has almost zero explosion. Tight in the hips too.

One trick pony with not much to work with. Maybe a no.4 at best. You can’t form consistency with this.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I have little hope for MVS. Bad hands, bad ball skills. ESB, on the other hand, is my hope.

[mraynrand]

I’m sure we can even find more posts of using this analogy on several others that didn’t improve. Not gonna take the time to list them all. Adams was a different story then them all. He was a 2nd round pick and much higher graded player coming out of Fresno State. He also showed and flashed as a rookie which proved he was worth the pick. He Had huge games his rookie season in big wins vs New England and Dallas in the playoffs. He had Aaron Rodgers gushing about him during his rookie camp comparing him to “Greg Jennings Talent”.

His second year he had a pretty severe ankle injury that he tried to play through and couldn’t plant which his whole game revolves around if you watch his route running. It made it so he couldn’t beat “press coverage”. His confidence went down and he caught a case of the dropsies. He got healthy and never looked back. Too me comparing Scantling to Adams is like comparing a Malibu to a Mercedes. MVS was drafted in the 5th round for a reason. He is a slightly better version of Trevor Davis which is basically some straight line speed and not much else. HE WILL NEVER be able to win in short spaces or areas and isn’t a great natural catcher of the football. THIS IS A PIPE-DREAM!!

For this to be our big Hope is just bullshit. It’s very undermining and reckless of Gute to say the least.

Good post except the last part. Did Gute actually ever say MVS was his big hope?

[GB-Brandon]

Good post except the last part. Did Gute actually ever say MVS was his big hope?

Well he did say “I really like where our receiver room is at right now”. Which I do understand is normal GM type talk but outside of Adams who is really all that great in our receiver room? What is there to really like?

I’m really hoping there is another move to be made here cause it’s not looking all that great.

[texaspackerbacker]

One of two things has to be true: either they do still have good hope for MVS to succeed, OR they really don't think we need a speedy WR. MVS has the physical tools. So it comes down to attitude and coaching.

[Radagast]

I think that we are just seeing the start of the WR parade that I believe will pass through the Packers facilities before the 2020 regular season begins. Devante Adams might be the only "safe" WR. With so many competing for the limited WR slots, this years WR roster tryouts/competition could be epic. With so many crying over the Packers not picking a WR in the 2020 draft, Gutekunst's strategy toward addressing this clear need seems to be revealing itself. Load up on WRs and let the cream rise to the top. Also Love and the other backup QBs will get plenty of practice throws and the coaches will have lots of video to evaluate. TC is going to be intense this year for sure !

[pbmax]

One of two things has to be true: either they do still have good hope for MVS to succeed, OR they really don't think we need a speedy WR. MVS has the physical tools. So it comes down to attitude and coaching.

tex, several people have pointed out the fact that he is missing several physical tools. He was drafted late for some reason despite being tall and fast.

If his hands are suspect, if he doesn't compete well for the ball, if he doesn't have any explosion in his route or fluidity to make breaks, he would seem to be missing some tools.

What he does have is size and speed. And Rodgers seemed to like throwing to him a bit. Threat on the outside.

[GB-Brandon]

tex, several people have pointed out the fact that he is missing several physical tools. He was drafted late for some reason despite being tall and fast.

If his hands are suspect, if he doesn't compete well for the ball, if he doesn't have any explosion in his route or fluidity to make breaks, he would seem to be missing some tools.

What he does have is size and speed. And Rodgers seemed to like throwing to him a bit. Threat on the outside.


Yes, he is a guy that within the right collection of pieces could have some flash plays here and there and have some success helping the offense. This I would go along with but once again I don’t believe the Packers have the adequate “collection of pieces” in play at this current time.

HE ISN’T a guy you can just line up out there and tell him to do his thing and dominate like D.Adams.

[mraynrand]

HE ISN’T a guy you can just line up out there and tell him to do his thing and dominate like D.Adams.

He's a bit player, a role player at best. Packers are banking on a resurgence of Funchess to be their true #2. I have hopes, but wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't happen. Other than that, they'll have to hope a number of other guys emerge as better role players or true targets to have a really good passing offense. Right now they really have Adams and Jones. Could see Stoneburner coming on, maybe Encyclopedia St. Brown...in addition to Funchess being respectable, that could be enough for a pretty formidable offense.

[texaspackerbacker]

tex, several people have pointed out the fact that he is missing several physical tools. He was drafted late for some reason despite being tall and fast.

If his hands are suspect, if he doesn't compete well for the ball, if he doesn't have any explosion in his route or fluidity to make breaks, he would seem to be missing some tools.

What he does have is size and speed. And Rodgers seemed to like throwing to him a bit. Threat on the outside.

Yes, I've read that ....... I'd reply by saying MVS showed good "explosion" off the line of scrimmage. Apparent lack of it in route running and "fluidity" too should be things that coaching can fix. Ditto that for the "hands" thing, which is probably more a matter of technique than anything else.

Hopefully, the comparisons to Davante Adams and James Jones after their second seasons are more valid. I'm certainly not 100% confident in him, but they must see something in him since they didn't draft a speed guy - or else, as I said, they just don't care to have a speedy wideout.

[Bretsky]

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2020/5/8/21251286/packers-failure-to-draft-a-wr-was-a-mistake-but-its-only-a-continuation-of-the-neglect?fbclid=IwAR2ktVgh_9qn8EStnzX93w-4HFHRNge_Po9WXy7OSgy69CkUQnbFIQWmx1U

[GB-Brandon]

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2020/5/8/21251286/packers-failure-to-draft-a-wr-was-a-mistake-but-its-only-a-continuation-of-the-neglect?fbclid=IwAR2ktVgh_9qn8EStnzX93w-4HFHRNge_Po9WXy7OSgy69CkUQnbFIQWmx1U

Amen. It’s what I’ve been saying for 3 years now. It’s just maddening because it makes too much sense.

[Zool]

Amen. It’s what I’ve been saying for 3 years now. It’s just maddening because it makes too much sense.

Where have you said they should of drafted a WR?

[GB-Brandon]

Free-agent wide receiver Antonio Brown has hired a new agent as he continues pursuing a return to the NFL in 2020

[RashanGary]

Free-agent wide receiver Antonio Brown has hired a new agent as he continues pursuing a return to the NFL in 2020

I would take Antonio brown in a heartbeat. I do not believe the accusations and im a huge fan of his talent.

[GB-Brandon]

I would take Antonio brown in a heartbeat. I do not believe the accusations and im a huge fan of his talent.

I’d be soooo happy. Our big power running game with Antonio Brown and Devante. OMG!!! It would push us over the top.

He would be cheap on a 1 year deal and 4 game suspension tops. He doesn’t even have any criminal charges. Let the man play.

This move would make me forgive everything.

[GB-Brandon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHp_RlLgTkg

[Bretsky]

Antonio Brown is a psycho and a team cancer

[GB-Brandon]

Yeah, it has some risk but reports are he is doing better. We’re looking for a Lombardi here. Cheap 1 year deal is what I’m talking about with little risk. Brown needs an opportunity too put back together his Potential HOF career. He can do it and with this being his last last last shot we could very possible get a tempered version. Set the deal up to give us leverage. We know he is gonna be in shape. This weird season layout might chill him out a bit too. This team currently isn’t going too a Super Bowl without him so why not take a shot? We’re desperate at WR right now. He immediately flips the whole thing.

Holmgren Baby Sat Andre Rison for a Lombardi. I’ve heard all the stories.

[pbmax]

Sign Gabriel and Snacks Harrison.

[Bretsky]

Sign Gabriel and Snacks Harrison.

probably where I'm at too; I don't think we win a SB with our without that whack job

[call_me_ishmael]

Sign Gabriel and Snacks Harrison.

This.

[texaspackerbacker]

Sign Gabriel and Snacks Harrison.

Snacks yes, Gabriel no. We could use a stretch-the-field kind of guy. Gabriel isn't that. Otherwise, we have too many WRs now.

[GB-Brandon]

Snacks yes, Gabriel no. We could use a stretch-the-field kind of guy. Gabriel isn't that. Otherwise, we have too many WRs now.

What do you consider Gabriel? A possession receiver? He has been clocked in the 4.2’s. He has mass acceleration and can get to top gear very quickly. He isn’t quite Tyreek Hill but he was a “Seam Buster” with the Falcons. Even popped one over the top on the Packers. He was ranked pretty high in 2017 for “Fastest Player in the NFL”. I don’t seem to see any of our guys on the list.

http://es.pn/2qKry2P

He Is Exactly What This Offense NEEDS assuming he checks out. Even if he is a Tik slower now he would still be our best shot going over the top.

[texaspackerbacker]

He was clocked at 4.4 on his pro-day. He's 29 now, and it's unlikely he got any faster. He's Beasley, Welker, or Cobb, definitely not Tyreek Hill or whatever other burner you can name.

[Joemailman]

What do you consider Gabriel? A possession receiver? He has been clocked in the 4.2’s. He has mass acceleration and can get to top gear very quickly. He isn’t quite Tyreek Hill but he was a “Seam Buster” with the Falcons. Even popped one over the top on the Packers. He was ranked pretty high in 2017 for “Fastest Player in the NFL”. I don’t seem to see any of our guys on the list.

http://es.pn/2qKry2P

He Is Exactly What This Offense NEEDS assuming he checks out. Even if he is a Tik slower now he would still be our best shot going over the top.

Speed isn't the issue with Gabriel now. Last year he missed 7 games with 2 concussions. The 2nd one caused him to miss the last 5 games. He would be a nice addition, but it's possible no team will decide to put him on the field.

[pbmax]

He has mass*acceleration = Force

FIFY

[pbmax]

Antonio Brown is a psycho and a team cancer

He is less a threat to engulf the locker room in an inferno than Andre Rison though.

[Joemailman]

I suspect Packers see ESB as a potential deep threat. Not a burner, but his 4.48 at the combine is Greg Jennings-like. You don't need to be a 4.3 guy to be a downfield threat if you have reach and ball skills.

[RashanGary]

I suspect

A. We're going to see as many 3 (RB/TE) sets as we see 3 WR sets

B when we are in 3 WR sets, Adams will play a bunch of slot

C Lazard and Funchess will be the main outside guys in our 3 WR sets

[GB-Brandon]

Speed isn't the issue with Gabriel now. Last year he missed 7 games with 2 concussions. The 2nd one caused him to miss the last 5 games. He would be a nice addition, but it's possible no team will decide to put him on the field.

And that’s why I’ve said “If He Checks Out” and “Is a Go”

[GB-Brandon]

I suspect Packers see ESB as a potential deep threat. Not a burner, but his 4.48 at the combine is Greg Jennings-like. You don't need to be a 4.3 guy to be a downfield threat if you have reach and ball skills.


I don’t see a single legitimate deep threat on the Packers roster. If i had too pick one that was close it would probably be MVS but have concerns which have been posted over and over regarding him. There is obviously more too it then just a fast 40 time.

[GB-Brandon]

He was clocked at 4.4 on his pro-day. He's 29 now, and it's unlikely he got any faster. He's Beasley, Welker, or Cobb, definitely not Tyreek Hill or whatever other burner you can name.

Actually if had to peg him into a comp “When Healthy” I would call him a poor mans Tyreek Hill. He offers something after the catch that those others don’t offer. Yes he is almost 30 and has some medicals. He isn’t or never was my first choice. This is where we’re at right now in regards to addressing the need after basically ignoring it for 2 years now.

“Beggars Can’t Be Picky”

[run pMc]

I'd expect Gut will wait to see what they actually have and if any players have made the proverbial leap before adding anyone. Don't think that happens until they can have an actual camp.
There will be cuts to accommodate the 35+ drafted WRs also. In other words, hang tight until August/September.

Personally, I'm not sure what a diminutive WR who is nearing age 30 with an injury history will give you. They let Cobb go for the same reason, and we know he can play off-script with Rodgers and has his trust.

Trying to remember - Did Gabriel ever really burn the GB secondary in any of the Bears games?

[Joemailman]

I'd expect Gut will wait to see what they actually have and if any players have made the proverbial leap before adding anyone. Don't think that happens until they can have an actual camp.
There will be cuts to accommodate the 35+ drafted WRs also. In other words, hang tight until August/September.

Personally, I'm not sure what a diminutive WR who is nearing age 30 with an injury history will give you. They let Cobb go for the same reason, and we know he can play off-script with Rodgers and has his trust.

Trying to remember - Did Gabriel ever really burn the GB secondary in any of the Bears games?

No. In 3 games he had 7 catches for 79 yards. He did score a 47 yard TD against Pack in 2016 as Falcons beat Packers 33-32.

The other question is whether LaFleur, given his insistence on WR's blocking, would have much interest in a WR listed at 5-7, 168. All of the Packers WR's, with the exception of Shepherd, weigh in a 200+.

[GB-Brandon]

I'd expect Gut will wait to see what they actually have and if any players have made the proverbial leap before adding anyone. Don't think that happens until they can have an actual camp.
There will be cuts to accommodate the 35+ drafted WRs also. In other words, hang tight until August/September.

Personally, I'm not sure what a diminutive WR who is nearing age 30 with an injury history will give you. They let Cobb go for the same reason, and we know he can play off-script with Rodgers and has his trust.

Trying to remember - Did Gabriel ever really burn the GB secondary in any of the Bears games?

Like I’ve said he isn’t my first choice or second or third choice for that matter. To me it’s more we’re running out of choices and IMO we need more competition at the receiver position other then being that hopefully EQ is recovered from a pretty bad injury who was basically a long shot even before the injury. On top of this someone will probably go down with a new injury this camp. Maybe by some divine intervention some of our guys make a huge jump but for that to be the only hope on a team so close to winning it all is reckless. It reminds me of how Thompson ignored the safety position for years other then hoping mediocre talents got better. We need to safeguard the position.

I do agree with everything is so up in the air that we need to wait for a move to be potentially made. Right now there is no guarantee there will even be a season and with all the uncertainty I can understand Gute not wanting to make a big move right now.

Gabriel made some catches against the Packers while with the Bears. Nothing mind blowing but I’m not sure Mitchell Trubisky served Gabriel well. Nagy came over from the Chiefs so it’s pretty easy to see the plan was for Tyler Gabriel to be his form of Tyreek Hill too some degree.

[pbmax]

Of all the traits I think might be important for a WR, blocking is perhaps #10 on the list. I get it, it helps, but it can't decide each WR roster slot.

He played OK with the Falcons in this offense, he'd be OK for Flower Power.

[texaspackerbacker]

I suspect Packers see ESB as a potential deep threat. Not a burner, but his 4.48 at the combine is Greg Jennings-like. You don't need to be a 4.3 guy to be a downfield threat if you have reach and ball skills.

I agree with this to some extent, along with MVS outside if he can get back to some semblance of his rookie season.

Stretching the field doesn't necessarily mean throwing a lot of bombs to the outside WRs. It is more about occupying Safetys and loosening coverage for others on shorter routes. I think St. Brown is more suited for that than slants and shallow crossing routes. I have a sick sad memory of how he got wiped out going over the middle and injured for the season.

[RashanGary]

Lazard and Adams both ran 4.55

Just fast enough. MVS, if healthy, with a little bit of development, might be a nice between the 20s piece to stretch the field, with funchess more of a goal line piece. And EQ a bonus.

Using less 3 and 4 we sets, we could be set this year.

[GB-Brandon]

Of all the traits I think might be important for a WR, blocking is perhaps #10 on the list. I get it, it helps, but it can't decide each WR roster slot.

He played OK with the Falcons in this offense, he'd be OK for Flower Power.


Yeah, yet it gets brought up with every receiver prospect that gets thrown around here. You’d think we are attempting to run the Barry Switzer playbook and the Wishbone of the 80’s at OU.

Just because the Packers “Can’t Stop the Run” most teams can and will by committing and stacking boxes. Against better teams with better secondaries we need guys that can take advantage of this. I’m not convinced we currently have that.

[GB-Brandon]

Someone please show me where we got better at stopping the run or getting better on the perimeter Where we can separate? The Packers two biggest problems last year on a 13-3 team.

Back to the drawing board. :bang:

[RashanGary]

Davante is an all around #1 WR. He can play well outside or in the slot. If we don't have a good slot option, Adams will play inside.

Lazard showed the talent and competitiveness to be a legit #2 WR last year. He's an upgrade over himself last year due to growth. He was young and new to the offense, but you saw a guy who thrives on catching contested footballs and enough physical talent to expect a big leap in production.

MVS has had 9 catches of 40 or more yards in his first two years. That's legitimate top 20 big play production in the NFL. He's an upgrade to himself last year due to growth. He adjusts well to deep passes and catches them too. He struggles in traffic and struggles adjusting his routes to 12s liking. But between the 20s, he opens the offense up for big plays down the field.

Funchess might be used as more of a hybrid TE. Similar size to Lazard, but Lazard is a 4.55 guy and Funchess a 4.7 guy. I see him as our #4 and an upgrade to Allison last year.

EQ is an upgrade to kumerow.


So, due.to growth from within, I see our #2-#4 wr positions better than 2019

[RashanGary]

I think there is like 90% chance Lazard, MVS and EQ are better than the younger/injured versions of themselves. And a 100% chance Funchess is better than Allison. So we got better. Period.

[RashanGary]

Not EXPECTING growth from young players doesn't match up with history.

A list of guys who for a year or two were backups and didn't do much, or starters who didn't do much for their first year or two in the league.

Brett Favre
Aaron Rodgers
Jordy Nelson
Nick Collins
Kenny Clark
Davante Adams
Aaron Jones
Lane Taylor
David Bahktiari
Mike Daniels
Zadarius Smith
Preston Smith
Adrian Amos


Most players aren't very good for their first year or two.

Truly, not being a homer or Kool aid drinker, EXPECTING the Packers to be better at WR in 2020 than 2019 based on how young they've been the last two years and how they're just getting to the solid parts of their careers.... It's more realistic to think there will be growth than to expect them to stay the same. It's not even unrealistic to think a guy like Lazard could be a 1000 yard per season type receiving talent

[Bretsky]

I think there is like 90% chance Lazard, MVS and EQ are better than the younger/injured versions of themselves. And a 100% chance Funchess is better than Allison. So we got better. Period.


We have a 1 and a bunch of 4's that are upgrading over themselves. It's a tough sell at WR
It's hard to find a group that's worse from 1-4. There are some, I maybe think, but it's a challenge. I do agree our RB's are definitely better. So the solution would be dominate the game with the run, and surprise people with occasional passes. Besides our RB's, I'm not sure we're built do that that though. Time will tell

[Bretsky]

Not EXPECTING growth from young players doesn't match up with history.

A list of guys who for a year or two were backups and didn't do much, or starters who didn't do much for their first year or two in the league.

Brett Favre
Aaron Rodgers
Jordy Nelson
Nick Collins
Kenny Clark
Davante Adams
Aaron Jones
Lane Taylor
David Bahktiari
Mike Daniels
Zadarius Smith
Preston Smith
Adrian Amos


Most players aren't very good for their first year or two.

Truly, not being a homer or Kool aid drinker, EXPECTING the Packers to be better at WR in 2020 than 2019 based on how young they've been the last two years and how they're just getting to the solid parts of their careers.... It's more realistic to think there will be growth than to expect them to stay the same. It's not even unrealistic to think a guy like Lazard could be a 1000 yard per season type receiving talent



Agree on the Lizard somewhat. All 32 teams in the NFL can make the improvement from within argunment. Let's hope our coaching staff is elite and maybe our argument is stronger than the other 31 teams

[RashanGary]

Lizard is a really good bet to improve

1. He's young at at an age where improvement is likely

2. He showed skill and made big plays in his first year in the offense

3. His speed is 4.54. fast enough at his height, he does have athletic upside


Young, showed signs, has athletic upside. 2nd year in offense. He's the perfect candidate for a big stride.


After that, we just need a bunch of guys to be a #3 in an offense that doesn't play as often with 3 receivers.

I like our chances, with the running backs and high energy tight ends, to be better.

[RashanGary]

Obviously you don't expect kumerow to be much better, or Darius Shepherd. Physical limitations, same reason you never expected Allison to get better last year.

Even MVS and EQ, we haven't see enough big plays to really expect big things.

Not every young player gets better or should be expected to. But Lizard hits all the targets of a guy who's gonna take a big step forward.

[RashanGary]

The top 16 WR reception leaders from 2019

Michael Thomas 4.58 40
DeAndre Hopkins 4.57 40
Keenan Allen 4.71 40 *knee injury*
Julian Edelman 4.52 40
Julio Jones 4.34 40
Allen Robinson 4.60 40
Cooper kupp 4.62 40
Robert Woods 4.51 40
Tyler Boyd 4.58 40
DJ Moore 4.42 40
Chris Godwin 4.42 40
Jarvis Landry 4.58 40
Davante Adams 4.56 40
Tyler Locket 4.40 40
Amari Cooper 4.42 40
Jamison Crowder 4.56 40

31% ran under a 4.5s 40
81% ran under a 4.6 40

Then there is a 4.60 and a 4.62. Keenan Allen ran a 4.71 but there was a knee injury that affected that.



Allen Lazards 4.54 40 yard dash is right about where last year's reception leaders timed. He's fast enough to be fast enough. He showed grit, ball skills, contested catch skills and AR says dude just gets it.

I wouldn't be surprised if he had a 1,000 yard season. There is nothing about his game or athletic profile that suggests he can't do it.

[RashanGary]

From his first catch, Lazards last 10 games of 2019

4 65
3 42
5 42
3 44
3 27
1 7
3 103
2 19
2 14
5 45
4 69

477 yards over 10 games. That would be 750 over 16 games. And I think he's better than last year's virsion of himself. Easy to envision 1000 yard season actually. He was consistent once he got his chance and will be better.

[GB-Brandon]

People did all these fancy stats to show basically the same thing with Allison last year and how he projected so well this last season. I can appreciate your optimism but I’m kind of in the same boat with Bretsky. It’s a bunch of 4’s. The days of me counting on significant jumps and improvement in regards too the Packers receivers are long gone because it’s been nothing but a let down all the way back to Donald Driver. This position group should of been upgraded 2-3 years ago and yet we’re still sitting here in 2020 singing the same damn tune. If anything is a broken record player it is the yearly Rah Rah talk about how all these project receivers are gonna finally develop and be stars.

And I really can’t get upset at MVS, EQ, Lazard and Kummerow. There a collection of day 3 picks and UDFA’s. There was a REASON FOR THEM TO FALL. That’s not to say you can’t “get lucky” every once and while but too build a receiving Corp on this is just unacceptable all things considered. Its all about probabilities and while there is nothing wrong with “hoping” the probabilities don’t equal out. Then you throw in the potential normal injury bug and it’s a dire situation.

You wanna he considered a Serious Super Bowl Contender then the Packers need too buck the fuck up and get Rodgers the weapons he needs and deserves. Tired of K-Mart shit.

[Joemailman]

Lazard's 4.55 40 time was when he weighed 227 pounds. He's 215 now and is probably a little faster than he was then.

There are solid reasons why he should be able to get in the 700-800 yard range:

1. Rodgers trusts him. With good reason. Lazard's catch % of 67 was the best among Packers WR's.

2. He'll get more snaps. Lazard was 2nd on the Packers in receiving yards despite being 4th among WR's in snap counts. He could get at least 200 more snaps than last year.

3. He's a known quantity to the coaching staff. He'll be a big part of their offseason offensive planning. MLF probably barely knew who he was this time last year.

4. He took advantage when his snaps increased last year. He didn't shy away from a bigger role.

[RashanGary]

Brandon, Allison ran a 4.67 and fell outside the fast enough to be fast enough threshold

Lazards speed (in a different class than Allison) is just one of the reasons to think he might be a big contributor in 2020

[GB-Brandon]

I’m sure Lazard is gonna be given a chance this year as there really isn’t any other option other then possibly Funches revitalizing his career. I don’t believe Lazard will be able to shoulder the load all by himself as an every down no.2 receiver. He’s a great kid and great story. I expect the Packers to rotate all of these guys in from time to time and going with the hot hand kinda like they did last year with limited success. It will be amazing when they play teams like the Giants and Raiders but will struggle vs the better teams which we have more of this year.

The unit as a whole outside of Adams is lacking top-end talent along with short area quickness and speed along with potentially not being able too hold up against injury.

[GB-Brandon]

Brandon, Allison ran a 4.67 and fell outside the fast enough to be fast enough threshold

Lazards speed (in a different class than Allison) is just one of the reasons to think he might be a big contributor in 2020

I was well aware of Allison’s top end speed. My original post was geared towards the fact that last off-season I heard a lot people projecting Allison’s numbers based on him not getting hurt in 2018 which didn’t come true in 2019.

Once again I expect some good WR play here and there outside of Adams in 2020 but I do not feel the Packers have the correct cocktail of players they need at the receiver position for the offense to hit full potential.

[Zool]

Well since you brought up Driver, a 7th round pick, he had just about 500 yards combined in his first 3 years. He had a tough time getting past Corey Bradford and Bill Schroeder to get playing time.

You really just never know if/when the light will go on.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DrivDo00.htm

[bobblehead]

I was well aware of Allison’s top end speed. My original post was geared towards the fact that last off-season I heard a lot people projecting Allison’s numbers based on him not getting hurt in 2018 which didn’t come true in 2019.

Once again I expect some good WR play here and there outside of Adams in 2020 but I do not feel the Packers have the correct cocktail of players they need at the receiver position for the offense to hit full potential.

The catch is that flowers vision of an offense isn't the same as yours. Funchess and lazard fit his mold of big strong wr who can block.

[GB-Brandon]

Well since you brought up Driver, a 7th round pick, he had just about 500 yards combined in his first 3 years. He had a tough time getting past Corey Bradford and Bill Schroeder to get playing time.

You really just never know if/when the light will go on.

https://www.pro-football-
reference.com/players/D/DrivDo00.htm (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DrivDo00.htm)

That’s all well and good but for a lot of us we would of liked to see more added to the pot then the main plan being an UDFA that lacks adequate change of direction or short area quickness or bend in hip movement. I also wouldn’t call him to have Elite Speed. He is basically DK Metcalf without the elite speed(4.3) or strength which is a huge difference. I guess you could call him a poor mans DK Metcalf. That’s this guys ceiling.

Also, for every Driver there is 15-20 that didn’t make the jump so once again we’re back too probabilities and giving the team the best possible chance to be successful which clearly was not done here.

[Massive J]

Antonio Brown is a psycho and a team cancer

I agree. This is why he doesn't belong.

[Zool]

That’s all well and good but for a lot of us we would of liked to see more added to the pot then the main plan being an UDFA that lacks adequate change of direction or short area quickness or bend in hip movement. I also wouldn’t call him to have Elite Speed. He is basically DK Metcalf without the elite speed(4.3) or strength which is a huge difference. I guess you could call him a poor mans DK Metcalf. That’s this guys ceiling.

Also, for every Driver there is 15-20 that didn’t make the jump so once again we’re back too probabilities and giving the team the best possible chance to be successful which clearly was not done here.

I’m not disagreeing that more WR help would be amazing. That’s why I hate the draft though. For every Donald Driver in the 7th, there’s a Troy Williamson in the first. For every James Jones, there’s a Darius HeywardBey in the first. Marques Colston was a 7th rounder, and Roy Williams was a 1st.

[QBME]

That’s all well and good but for a lot of us we would of liked to see more added to the pot then the main plan being an UDFA that lacks adequate change of direction or short area quickness or bend in hip movement. I also wouldn’t call him to have Elite Speed. He is basically DK Metcalf without the elite speed(4.3) or strength which is a huge difference. I guess you could call him a poor mans DK Metcalf. That’s this guys ceiling.

Also, for every Driver there is 15-20 that didn’t make the jump so once again we’re back too probabilities and giving the team the best possible chance to be successful which clearly was not done here.

Who exactly are "us"?

To, not "too"

Sorry, fact checking and grammar Sheriff on patrol.

[QBME]

And BTW, Aaron Rodgers is going to make the Lizard a Pro Bowler.
You heard it here first.

[GB-Brandon]

The catch is that flowers vision of an offense isn't the same as yours. Funchess and lazard fit his mold of big strong wr who can block.

We’ll see if it works. Every Shanahan Offense I’ve seen that was at top gear had/has multiple WR’s that could get it done in different ways then then what the Packers have.

[RashanGary]

We’ll see if it works. Every Shanahan Offense I’ve seen that was at top gear had/has multiple WR’s that could get it done in different ways then then what the Packers have.

Samuel and Sanders weren't that good. That team was more RB, te and fb strong

[GB-Brandon]

Samuel and Sanders weren't that good. That team was more RB, te and fb strong

So now we’re gonna say things that just are completely false? Samuel only had a rookie season that competes with “greatest of all-time” in niners history

https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2019/12/30/deebo-samuel-stats-49ers-rookies-jerry-rice/

The offense took off after they brought in Emanuel Sanders also..

https://www.ninersnation.com/2020/3/28/21197503/49ers-nfl-news-free-agency-pff-sanders

Add Kittle(The best receiving TE in Football) and this was an amazing collection of talent by Lynch. The void left by Sanders(who the Packers tried to acquire) was then off-set by the trade up to nab Brandon Aiyuk.

This is an organization doing “all the things” to build and retain a legitimate receiving corp. They didn’t just sit pat and rely on Dante Pettis and practice the Packers approach of “Mediocrity.”

[run pMc]

The Denver - Mike Shanahan offenses of '97 & '98 had Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith, and Ed McCaffrey as the top 3 targets.
Smith was a UDFA gem, and McCaffrey was a R3 pick by the NYG. Sharpe was one of their best players.

It's unlikely, but within the realm of possibility, that Adams-Lazard-Funchess could approximate much of their production... the thing is, they had Terrell Davis at RB and a group of extremely well trained OL zone blocking for him. I'm not convinced GB has that.

A lot of the improvement on offense may have to come from Lazard and Sternberger. Denver had Sharpe, and SF has Kittle. If you have a great TE and a running game you can do a lot with your play action IMO with deception and mismatches...and without the need for great WRs.

I'd still like them to improve the talent/depth though. Kumerow is what he is at this point, Funchess is a rental, and Adams has about 2-3 more seasons where he'll be in his prime. Developing the next batch of WRs for Rodgers/Love will be important in 2022, if not now.

[GB-Brandon]

I’m not disagreeing that more WR help would be amazing. That’s why I hate the draft though. For every Donald Driver in the 7th, there’s a Troy Williamson in the first. For every James Jones, there’s a Darius HeywardBey in the first. Marques Colston was a 7th rounder, and Roy Williams was a 1st.

The Packers have gone 20 straight draft picks without drafting a receiver though. Need more bites at the apple.

[GB-Brandon]

And BTW, Aaron Rodgers is going to make the Lizard a Pro Bowler.
You heard it here first.

Unfortunately the Packers Super Bowl Chances weigh heavily on this happening.

[pbmax]

Not EXPECTING growth from young players doesn't match up with history.

A list of guys who for a year or two were backups and didn't do much, or starters who didn't do much for their first year or two in the league.

Brett Favre
Aaron Rodgers
Jordy Nelson
Nick Collins
Kenny Clark
Davante Adams
Aaron Jones
Lane Taylor
David Bahktiari
Mike Daniels
Zadarius Smith
Preston Smith
Adrian Amos

snipped

I am confused. Are you saying these players leaped, failed to leap, or were the rare exceptions?

Aaron Jones was the best back his rookie year as soon as he got healthy and saw the field. I don't think I am rewriting history there.

[RashanGary]

I am confused. Are you saying these players leaped, failed to leap, or were the rare exceptions?

Aaron Jones was the best back his rookie year as soon as he got healthy and saw the field. I don't think I am rewriting history there.

The idea that the Packers WRs won't be better.this year doesnr account for the reality that players. Often times get better in years 2, 3 and 4

[RashanGary]

Lazard showed quite a few signs that he might be one of those players who really breaks out

[pbmax]

The idea that the Packers WRs won't be better.this year doesnr account for the reality that players. Often times get better in years 2, 3 and 4

OK.

[RashanGary]

Adams - legit #1, does everything

Lazard - showed talent in contested catch situations. The QB likes his feel for setting up his routes.

MVS has 9 catches over 40 yards in his first two years. Adams has 7 in the last two years for perspective. MVS runs well and tracks the deep ball well. Shows limitations in contested catch situations and doesn't have a feel for setting up routes. More of a situational player, to stretch the field. Probably shouldn't play on a short field or 4 minute offense

Funchess is more of a possession player with speed liabilities. I'd play MVS on a long field and Funchess in shorter yardage situations.

EQ is a wild card


Being the hopeful fan I am, I could see Adams and Lazard being firm #1 and #2. Situationally, I think MVS and Funchess could combine to be a good #3. MVS when it's a long field and Funchess when it's short.

[GB-Brandon]

Well so far we got “The Niners receivers weren’t that good”, “Lazard is gonna be a Pro Bowl receiver in 2020”, “The vision of this offense will work as it did for the 97-98 Denver Broncos”

RAH RAH RAH RAH!!! Let’s keep it going!

[RashanGary]

Well so far we got “The Niners receivers weren’t that good”, “Lazard is gonna be a Pro Bowl receiver in 2020”, “The vision of this offense will work as it did for the 97-98 Denver Broncos”

RAH RAH RAH RAH!!! Let’s keep it going!

That's not what I said at all.

I think Lazard has a good chance to be a James Jones level talent. Adams and Lazard could be pretty good. I like MVS on a long field because of his speed and ability to track the ball. I don't like him in tight spaces, but Funchess could be used more in those situations. I think they're improved over 2019 because of Lazards growth and then MVS and Funchess's complimentary skillset as alternating #3s.

This is the 2020 Packers not any other team from any other era. It's about using what we have.to their best abilities, not trying to recreate something else.

Aaron Rodgers talents and the solid OL help bring it all together.

[RashanGary]

And yeah, the 9ers receivers weren't that good last year. But that has nothing to do with the 2020 Packers other than you claiming they (9ers) were world beaters and proof positive we're screwed because our receivers suck.

We have Aaron Rodgers, a solid vet OL, Adams and Jones. The 2020 Packers have a few proven strengths that pretty much guarantee they won't suck.

How the rest comes together, that's what I'm wonderint at this point

[texaspackerbacker]

It's gonna be an interesting preseason with the five mentioned plus Kumerow, Begelton, and maybe Shepherd and Taylor. That plus the rookie getting tested and Boyle fighting to keep his back up QB job.

[GB-Brandon]

And yeah, the 9ers receivers weren't that good last year. But that has nothing to do with the 2020 Packers other than you claiming they (9ers) were world beaters and proof positive we're screwed because our receivers suck.

We have Aaron Rodgers, a solid vet OL, Adams and Jones. The 2020 Packers have a few proven strengths that pretty much guarantee they won't suck.

How the rest comes together, that's what I'm wonderint at this point

If there receivers “Aren’t That Good” then ours are complete trash. This team beat us a combined 50-0 in 2 first half’s of football combined. They did whatever they wanted whether throwing or running in those two games.

Being positive is one thing but being completely ignorant is another.

[RashanGary]

If there receivers “Aren’t That Good” then ours are complete trash. This team beat us a combined 50-0 in 2 first half’s of football combined. They did whatever they wanted whether throwing or running in those two games.

Being positive is one thing but being completely ignorant is another.

Picking two games in a season as the tell all, end all might be equally ignorant

[GB-Brandon]

Picking two games in a season as the tell all, end all might be equally ignorant

Don’t forget one of those games we were even coming off a bye. Both games we were at or near 100 percent health as much of the season. While the Packers were busy creating controversy trading premium resources away for a back up QB the Niners got two 1st round talents to fill immediate holes. This is why I was so upset after the draft. We also got potentially worse at RT and ILB. It will be a miracle if Kirksey stays healthy for the whole season. Literally nothing has been done to shore up the run defense.

The probabilities tell us we won’t be as “healthy” this year and the schedule is much more difficult this year as of now. If you think Allen Lazard is gonna be the ultimate equalizer in all of this then “WOW.” I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a level of Homerism. Outside Adams our receivers suck. This doesn’t mean we won’t find a way to win some games but the front office has done little to nothing to address the Packers glaring needs.

[pbmax]

Picking two games in a season as the tell all, end all might be equally ignorant

How about this?

Emanuel Sanders signed a 2 year, $16 million dollar contract for this year, $10 million guaranteed. In 2016, he got $20 mil guaranteed.

Do you see any of the WR not named Adams getting this kind of dough?

Any number of them could become functional. But as TJ Lang, tweeted recently, you can tell who belongs right away. I don't think we have seen that with any of them except possibly Lazard. I suppose ESB has a chance in what will likely be his second full year.

On your side of the equation, the Niners before Sanders were getting pretty paltry production from Goodwin and company.

[Zool]

I hate the offseason.

[GB-Brandon]

One of those games decided Home Field Advantage and the other decided who went to the Super Bowl so quit acting like they were some meaningless Fucken games.

#ignorant

[RashanGary]

One of those games decided Home Field Advantage and the other decided who went to the Super Bowl so quit acting like they were some meaningless Fucken games.

#ignorant

Am I being disrespectful to you?

[ThunderDan]

That's not what I said at all.

I think Lazard has a good chance to be a James Jones level talent. Adams and Lazard could be pretty good. I like MVS on a long field because of his speed and ability to track the ball. I don't like him in tight spaces, but Funchess could be used more in those situations. I think they're improved over 2019 because of Lazards growth and then MVS and Funchess's complimentary skillset as alternating #3s.

This is the 2020 Packers not any other team from any other era. It's about using what we have.to their best abilities, not trying to recreate something else.

Aaron Rodgers talents and the solid OL help bring it all together.

You do know that James Jones was our 3rd WR for all but 1 year when the whole receiving core was out with injuries and we were able to pick him up?

[RashanGary]

How about this?

Emanuel Sanders signed a 2 year, $16 million dollar contract for this year, $10 million guaranteed. In 2016, he got $20 mil guaranteed.

Do you see any of the WR not named Adams getting this kind of dough?

Any number of them could become functional. But as TJ Lang, tweeted recently, you can tell who belongs right away. I don't think we have seen that with any of them except possibly Lazard. I suppose ESB has a chance in what will likely be his second full year.

On your side of the equation, the Niners before Sanders were getting pretty paltry production from Goodwin and company.

Tramon Williams was brought into Houston, cut before the season started, brought to Green Bay. Then he was a spot player for a year and then nickle.... He showed some things early where you thought he had a chance. Eventually he got a couple big pay days, probably a better db than Sanders was a WR. If you asked after his second season if he'd command a big contract, you'd probably say no.

It's just hard to judge a player after his first or second year in the league.

Honestly, it could go either way with Lazard, but my being hopeful is no more invalid than someone who's doubtful.

[RashanGary]

You do know that James Jones was our 3rd WR for all but 1 year when the whole receiving core was out with injuries and we were able to pick him up?

Yeah. Those were some prolific passing offenses. Jones could be a number 2 on a more balanced team.

[RashanGary]

I was hopeful MVS would be more complete last year. I was wrong. I'm hopeful Lazard will be better this year. I could be wrong again.

In no way do I know what's going to happen or claim to. But I get hopeful about the Packers and look for the ways they could be better. It's no different than Rastak being hopeful about his Vikings (even though I'm doubtful for.thsy young defense)

[GB-Brandon]

Am I being disrespectful to you?

I think you should change your screen name to “Hopium”. :glug:

[RashanGary]

I think you should change your screen name to “Hopium”. :glug:

If you change yours to receivers win championships!

[GB-Brandon]

If you change yours to receivers win championships!

I don’t think the Kansas City Chiefs would argue that!!!

[RashanGary]

I don’t think the Kansas City Chiefs would argue that!!!

Touche! Brandon, no one's gonna change your mind or mine! Being right all of the time wouldn't be fun for me if there wasn't people like you to create contrast :wink:

[GB-Brandon]

Touche! Brandon, no one's gonna change your mind or mine! Being right all of the time wouldn't be fun for me if there wasn't people like you to create contrast :wink:

I Try. :glug:

[RashanGary]

I Try. :glug:

You weren't here, but I thought MVS was gonna be a legit #2 all last off-season. If you're right, I'll crown ya man. I ain't here to stir shit and never tip my hat.

[RashanGary]

Pb was right last off-season. The receivers bit us in the ass.

[GB-Brandon]

Hats off to Pb. I shared the same sentiment last year but I’m sure you already knew that. :roll:

All I can think is Gute has another move up his sleeve. I’ll be rooting for Lazard as hard as anybody.

[pbmax]

I hate the offseason.

I might be almost as excited about the Cowboys season (McCarthy) as I am the Packers season truth be told.

I am really rooting for both success and failure down there.

[bobblehead]

I don’t think the Kansas City Chiefs would argue that!!!

The Chiefs don't have the best WR core in the league. I would argue its barely top 10...what they have is the single best QB in the league right now, and no one has argued that that doesn't give you a huge edge.

[bobblehead]

Hats off to Pb. I shared the same sentiment last year but I’m sure you already knew that. :roll:

All I can think is Gute has another move up his sleeve. I’ll be rooting for Lazard as hard as anybody.

We know now what you claim you believed before January 2020, but we have no idea what you actually believed.

[Zool]

I might be almost as excited about the Cowboys season (McCarthy) as I am the Packers season truth be told.

I am really rooting for both success and failure down there.

I follow the old adage of "if you ain't wit us, you again' us"

[pbmax]

I follow the old adage of "if you ain't wit us, you again' us"

I want him to win just enough to keep the job for 10 years. :lol:

[Zool]

The Chiefs don't have the best WR core in the league. I would argue its barely top 10...what they have is the single best QB in the league right now, and no one has argued that that doesn't give you a huge edge.

Boy they definitely have to be in the conversation with Hill, Watkins, Hardman, and Kelce.

[GB-Brandon]

The Chiefs don't have the best WR core in the league. I would argue its barely top 10...what they have is the single best QB in the league right now, and no one has argued that that doesn't give you a huge edge.

If you count Kelce as a pass catcher then together It’s “Elite”. They typically have guys running wide open all over the field. There offense is explosive. They can score fast and quickly and from anywhere. Mahommes is great no doubt but the Chiefs have done an amazing job putting the necessary talent and pieces around him. I give John Dorsey a lot of the credit for this.

I wish the Packers would of followed the same blueprint.

[Zool]

If you count Kelce as a pass catcher then together It’s “Elite”. They typically have guys running wide open all over the field. There offense is explosive. They can score fast and quickly and from anywhere. Mahommes is great no doubt but the Chiefs have done an amazing job putting the necessary talent and pieces around him. I give John Dorsey a lot of the credit for this.

I wish the Packers would of followed the same blueprint.

It's would have, not would of.

[run pMc]

All I can think is Gute has another move up his sleeve. I’ll be rooting for Lazard as hard as anybody.
Agree 100% ... and while I was very disappointed and shocked they didn't draft one if not two WRs, I can't do anything about it except cheer for who they have and hope they develop.

I am very curious to find out if ESB or Begelton show anything, and whether Lazard truly makes a leap. I think it would be optimistic to expect all three to show up, but it's certainly possible if not likely ONE of them does.

MVS has always been a raw talent and project, and it's possible he'll develop just like he might turn into Darius Heyward-Bey. (Or Torrey Smith.) I don't think he's a #2 WR... he probably shouldn't be a #3 either. I think he's a #4WR who you hope can play some ST's and worry defenses with his deep speed. Guys who run 4.37 at 6-4 are uncommon.

The problem is GB doesn't have a clear #2 WR (Funchess? Lazard?) and lacks an heir apparent to Adams on the roster. Maybe that player emerges this year, or maybe Gute finds one after/during roster cuts, but that's a fairly big ask.


As for the KC receivers... they are very good. Remember what Matt freaking Moore did to the defense once Andy Reid figured out he just needed to get them the ball on easy throws and make a play?

[RashanGary]

Im a fan of kc receivers. Perfect for for Mahomes in his prime.

We have Rodgers, still has enough legs to be as good as Brady or Brees in tbeir prime. And knows football. He's not Mahomes in his prime, just as good In different ways imo.

Rodgers, a generational field general at this point, who can move a little too. A balanced team is the perfect team for AR to lead. He can pick apart defenses with runs and passes.

I see what Gutebag is doijbg and curious to see it play out. Lazard, Sternberger, Dillion, an improved Jamaal Williams who looks like an elite 3rd down back and Deguara who can get a piece role.... Plus Jones and Adams and a chance of one of the other young WRs taking a leap. 2nd year in the offense, mostly returning players from a year ago in a offseason shortened by covid......

I like their chances, honestly

[texaspackerbacker]

I'll compete with you here too, RG hahahaha. Rodgers is the GOAT - period. Brady may be the only QB ever who threw it as good as Rodgers and he wasn't even on the same planet in terms of mobility. Mahomes is a little more mobile than Rodgers ever has been, and he throws it damn good too, but not quite up to Rodgers level. And Brees falls a little short throwing and not even close in mobility. The greatest thing of our GOAT, though, is his mindset - absolutely not putting it up for grabs. All of those others are good that way too - above average, but way short of Rodgers.

Getting back to the topic of the thread, though, Rodgers has done it with lesser receivers and has throughout his career made good receivers rise to near great. Hopefully he has enough left to do that with Lazard and maybe St. Brown and Valdez-Scantling.

[GB-Brandon]

My concern with Rodgers is the 13 screws and steel plate in his throwing shoulder. I’m not sure we have seen elite type Rodgers play since the surgery. We’ve seen flashes of it but it hasn’t been consistent for periods of time like in years past where he could get it done with the likes of Jeff Janis and Abbrederis and R. Rodgers. I sometimes wonder if it has messed with his mental timing and velocity of throws along with his accuracy. There just appears to be lapses in his normal superior arm talent. There also appears to be a difference in play from Rodgers leading right up to the injury to post surgery. Remember, the big contract extension was done the offseason after the surgery.

I’m hoping this isn’t the case and that he just needs better weapons at this stage of his career.. My thinking was get him some elite talent at the WR position to overcompensate for some of this and make one final run. It appears at this stage the Packers are choosing the approach of taking the ball out of his hands more with adding a power run game while grooming his successor.

[GB-Brandon]

This is what we needed to get. Some of this!!! No Comparison!! “It Factor”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=526rWYgaR0c&feature=share


https://youtu.be/4bSYdWLkhO4

[SudsMcBucky]

I'm one of those that was hell bent on getting a WR in R1, too. But, the more I think about it and as much as Rodgers takes a couple of years before trusting WR's, I'm wondering more if he's better off on the remaining 2 or 3 years of continuing to build rapport with the guys he's already been working with.

[GB-Brandon]

Were walking around with "FAKE NIKE'S"

[GB-Brandon]

https://chumley.barstoolsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/20/Screen-Shot-2018-08-20-at-11.39.50-AM.png

[bobblehead]

Well so far we got “The Niners receivers weren’t that good”, “Lazard is gonna be a Pro Bowl receiver in 2020”, “The vision of this offense will work as it did for the 97-98 Denver Broncos”

RAH RAH RAH RAH!!! Let’s keep it going!

You go boy. Burn that strawman to the ground!!!

[bobblehead]

If there receivers “Aren’t That Good” then ours are complete trash. This team beat us a combined 50-0 in 2 first half’s of football combined. They did whatever they wanted whether throwing or running in those two games.

Being positive is one thing but being completely ignorant is another.

We had 12 less yards receiving than SF last year.

[bobblehead]

I think you should change your screen name to “Hopium”. :glug:

And you should change yours to any of the posters who have come through here over the years with a similar act and then disappeared rather than face the truth when they are proven epically wrong. I.E. I guarantee SF wins the superbowl as its all rigged anyway.

[bobblehead]

I don’t think the Kansas City Chiefs would argue that!!!

Really? I think Maholmes made a lot of guys look better than they are.

Edit: So which of their receivers do you really love? The 5th round pick, the 2nd round pick or the top 5 journeyman with exactly 1 thousand yard season to his resume (not with KC)

[bobblehead]

Hats off to Pb. I shared the same sentiment last year but I’m sure you already knew that. :roll:

All I can think is Gute has another move up his sleeve. I’ll be rooting for Lazard as hard as anybody.

We don't. We have to take your word for it since you only tell us how smart you are but weren't actually here posting. Also the teams you seem to love have one thing in common....an elite TE. They don't actually have good WRs. That is more my think to be honest. Having guys like Kittles who block and catch. Its also the type of WR Flower seems to like. You don't even seem to understand the only thing you are kinda right about.

[bobblehead]

Boy they definitely have to be in the conversation with Hill, Watkins, Hardman, and Kelce.

Kelce is a TE. Watkins is a journeyman. Neither hill nor hardiman got 1k last year.

[bobblehead]

If you count Kelce as a pass catcher then together It’s “Elite”. They typically have guys running wide open all over the field. There offense is explosive. They can score fast and quickly and from anywhere. Mahommes is great no doubt but the Chiefs have done an amazing job putting the necessary talent and pieces around him. I give John Dorsey a lot of the credit for this.

I wish the Packers would of followed the same blueprint.

See my other post. You don't even get why KC and SF are so good. They have elite TE who can catch and block. Its a mismatch. Its not about having a WR who can seperate, its about putting a D on its heels. WR don't make any of the offenses you envy great, the TEs do.

[pbmax]

See my other post. You don't even get why KC and SF are so good. They have elite TE who can catch and block. Its a mismatch. Its not about having a WR who can seperate, its about putting a D on its heels. WR don't make any of the offenses you envy great, the TEs do.

C'mon. This point makes Kelce more of a WR than you want to admit. He blocks DBs. Here is a Chefs video of Kelce dominating the DBs. Kelce is basically an H back.

https://www.chiefs.com/video/travis-kelce-doing-an-incredible-job-blocking-to-help-the-running-game-18340202

[Zool]

Kelce is a TE. Watkins is a journeyman. Neither hill nor hardiman got 1k last year.

Huh, I didn't know that. /s

[RashanGary]

See my other post. You don't even get why KC and SF are so good. They have elite TE who can catch and block. Its a mismatch. Its not about having a WR who can seperate, its about putting a D on its heels. WR don't make any of the offenses you envy great, the TEs do.

I agree.

[GB-Brandon]

See my other post. You don't even get why KC and SF are so good. They have elite TE who can catch and block. Its a mismatch. Its not about having a WR who can seperate, its about putting a D on its heels. WR don't make any of the offenses you envy great, the TEs do.

So you basically just uncovered another hole in the Packers offense and not having “Elite TE Play.”

I would tend to agree as I don’t believe Sternberger will project to that level. Have to wait and see.

Get it at TE or WR you still need to get it somewhere and we currently don’t.

[GB-Brandon]

We don't. We have to take your word for it since you only tell us how smart you are but weren't actually here posting. Also the teams you seem to love have one thing in common....an elite TE. They don't actually have good WRs. That is more my think to be honest. Having guys like Kittles who block and catch. Its also the type of WR Flower seems to like. You don't even seem to understand the only thing you are kinda right about.
Once again, it’s gotta come from somewhere. They drafted a TE in the 3rd round last year to hopefully address this.

Don’t get upset with me. I didn’t build this mess. Of course I’m not right about every single thing but I think you will find I’m right a lot more then I’m wrong. If you can’t handle my posts then don’t read them.

[GB-Brandon]

I believe the Packers current TE’s would be sufficient and successful with a legitimate no.2 receiver.

[pbmax]

An argument for having receivers your QB likes.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYe-9WbWkAM0GGM?format=png&name=900x900

[RashanGary]

Brandon, most of this forum is between 40 and 60 years old I think. I'm on the young side at 39. Im guessing you're about that age too based on the way you communicate and the history you draw on.

Haven't we seen enough guys develop in their 2nd and 3rd years to have some optimism for a guy like Lazard, who showed quite a bit in his first opportunity???

[pbmax]

Game Game Rece Rece Rece Rece Rece Rece Rece Rece Tota Tota Tota
No. Player G GS Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng Ctch% Y/Tgt Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb
17 Davante Adams* 12 12 127 83 997 12.0 5 58 65.4% 7.9 83 12.0 997 5 2
13 Allen Lazard 16 3 52 35 477 13.6 3 43 67.3% 9.2 36 13.8 498 3 0
83 Marquez Valdes-Scantling 16 10 56 26 452 17.4 2 74 46.4% 8.1 28 16.5 461 2 0
81 Geronimo Allison 16 6 55 34 287 8.4 2 31 61.8% 5.2 35 8.4 294 2 2
16 Jake Kumerow 14 4 21 12 219 18.3 1 49 57.1% 10.4 12 18.3 219 1 0
11 Trevor Davis 2 0 1 1 28 28.0 0 28 100.0% 28.0 1 28.0 28 0 0
10 Darrius Shepherd 6 0 2 1 1 1.0 0 1 50.0% 0.5 1 1.0 1 0 1
Team Total 16 542 356 4017 11.3 26 74 65.7% 767 7.6 5812 44 15
Opp Total 16 326 3721 11.4 19 5642 34 19


Provided by Pro-Football-Reference.com (https://www.sports-reference.com/sharing.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool): View Original Table (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2019.htm?sr&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#rushing_and_receiving)
Generated 5/20/2020.

[GB-Brandon]

Brandon, most of this forum is between 40 and 60 years old I think. I'm on the young side at 39. Im guessing you're about that age too based on the way you communicate and the history you draw on.

Haven't we seen enough guys develop in their 2nd and 3rd years to have some optimism for a guy like Lazard, who showed quite a bit in his first opportunity???

Yes on Lazard and No on that being the only real solution with so much at stake.

[pbmax]

Game Game Rece Rece Rece Rece Rece Rece Rece Rece Tota Tota Tota
No. Player G GS Tgt Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng Ctch% Y/Tgt Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb
10 Tyreek Hill* 12 12 89 58 860 14.8 7 57 65.2% 9.7 66 13.4 883 7 0
14 Sammy Watkins 14 13 90 52 673 12.9 3 68 57.8% 7.5 54 12.7 685 3 2
17 Mecole Hardman* 16 5 41 26 538 20.7 6 83 63.4% 13.1 30 18.5 555 6 2
11 Demarcus Robinson 16 10 55 32 449 14.0 4 44 58.2% 8.2 32 14.0 449 4 0
13 Byron Pringle 16 0 16 12 170 14.2 1 28 75.0% 10.6 12 14.2 170 1 0
Team Total 16 558 378 4690 12.4 30 83 67.7% 753 8.3 6259 46 20
Opp Total 16 352 3543 10.1 21 5594 35 20


Provided by Pro-Football-Reference.com (https://www.sports-reference.com/sharing.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool): View Original Table (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/2019.htm?sr&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#rushing_and_receiving)
Generated 5/20/2020.

[pbmax]

Your position on Kelce makes a determination harder.

If Kelce counts as a WR or you just want receiving threats, then KC is better top to bottom.

You could argue that Adams trumps Kelce, but the depth on GB is bad. If Lazard continues to play well for a full year, or Scantron regains form or ESB breaks through, then it might be a closer call. I saw the KC depth make some big plays for them.

[RashanGary]

Yes on Lazard and No on that being the only real solution with so much at stake.

Ima gambler. I win some. Lose some. Over time, I win. Like sports bets, this a gamble. I see that and agree. Now we find out if Gute wins more bets than he loses, optimally better than anyone else. Probably, someone's better. But this is gute shooting his shot.

I'm sure every team would like to just be the best at everything and have no Gamble's at all, just sure things to win every year. Not so sure that's realistic.

[GB-Brandon]

Ima gambler. I win some. Lose some. Over time, I win. Like sports bets, this a gamble. I see that and agree. Now we find out if Gute wins more bets than he loses, optimally better than anyone else. Probably, someone's better. But this is gute shooting his shot.

I'm sure every team would like to just be the best at everything and have no Gamble's at all, just sure things to win every year. Not so sure that's realistic.

Yeah, drafting a receiver in the 1st or 2nd round over the last few years is just ”Sooooo UNREALISTIC” Give me a break.

I would just hate to give up some of these guys that were drafted instead. This is beyond “gambling.” This is just flat out reckless and stubborn mixed with too much Ego and it’s gonna cost us dearly.

[GB-Brandon]

Your position on Kelce makes a determination harder.

If Kelce counts as a WR or you just want receiving threats, then KC is better top to bottom.

You could argue that Adams trumps Kelce, but the depth on GB is bad. If Lazard continues to play well for a full year, or Scantron regains form or ESB breaks through, then it might be a closer call. I saw the KC depth make some big plays for them.

Spot on. They had Kelce yes but they also had multiple guys that can win one on one and that’s why they were so explosive. Nobody even brought up Demarcus Robinson. He would be a #2 on the Packers hands down.

[Bretsky]

Yeah, drafting a receiver in the 1st or 2nd round over the last few years is just ”Sooooo UNREALISTIC” Give me a break.

I would just hate to give up some of these guys that were drafted instead. This is beyond “gambling.” This is just flat out reckless and stubborn mixed with too much Ego and it’s gonna cost us dearly.




Over the studs we've brought in ? We talkin Bacon and JoshyJackson or the Lovemachine ?

[GB-Brandon]

Over the studs we've brought in ? We talkin Bacon and JoshyJackson or the Lovemachine ?


Don't forget about the BIG TRADE UP for Oren Burks in the 3rd round either. Unless Love turns out to be some big deal its a disaster of "Asset Allocation" which is a blade that cuts both ways. It has potentially stunted our growth for a 'RUN RIGHT NOW" and it will also set up a disaster for the near future if it fails. That's the very scary part of the whole thing.

Josh Jackson is already "Maxed Out". I am also getting tired of RG continuing to bring up work out videos about Rashan Gary. It's like BFD!!!l We know the dude can work out. That's why Gute drafted him. Were certainly not sure he knows how to play football effectively. I mean the guy couldn't even get on the field in a playoff game where we really needed him. Huge Early Fail.

[RashanGary]

Huge early fails from the Packers current roster:

Aaron Rodgers
Aaron Jones
Jace Sternberger
Davante Adams
Zadarius Smith
Kenny Clark
Kevin King

A whole bunch of guys are just ok or bad as rookies. It's really common for guys to develop from average or below average NFL players in their rookie years, into probowl players.

[GB-Brandon]

Huge early fails from the Packers current roster:

Aaron Rodgers
Aaron Jones
Jace Sternberger
Davante Adams
Zadarius Smith
Kenny Clark
Kevin King

A whole bunch of guys are just ok or bad as rookies. It's really common for guys to develop from average or below average NFL players in their rookie years, into probowl players.

I don't have time to respond to that and its completely flawed.

Here is the deal. Gute better hope all these 60-1 long-shot ponies he has been "Betting On" come to some type of positive fruition or he is gonna get ran the hell out. Just about every star on the roster that has "Been Drafted" are Thompson leftovers that Gute is actually trying to push out the door and replace with 'His Guys".

Were gonna find out very soon "What We Actually Have." Let me remind you that the NFL stands for "Not For Long." You simply don't have 3-4 years to develop first round picks let alone the 12th pick in the draft. That shit just isn't gonna work anymore with Rodgers taking a step back. You don't have his "All Time Elite QB Play" to save the fucken day anymore. We had a chance. A crack in the door so to speak and Gute totally turned his back on it to institute his long term agenda that I don't believe will be all that long.

It will be interesting to watch play out. That's for sure.

[GB-Brandon]

This isn't a good sign either. Betting on "Long Shots" at the horse track all day will leave you BROKE 9 times out of ten. I like BETTING ON WINNERS!!!

https://walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/Jordan-Love-Voted-Most-Overrated-Prospect

[Zool]

I agree they aren't taking enough swings at the WR position, but in a best case scenerio, it's 50/50 on every draft pick. There's not a single sure-thing in any draft ever, despite what the "experts" keeps telling you. I could write the script for the TV morons for the first 3 rounds.

"This is a plug and play left tackle for the next 10 years"
"This guy is outstanding in space and is a great north/south runner"
"The guy can absolutely fly and his catch radius is X"
"This guy is going to terrorize QBs for the next decade. He can really bend the corner and his motor never stops"
"The guy is an absolute stud and you've really shored that position up for 10 years"

None of them ever get called out for their absolute whiffs. Watch the draft on mute once. You'll get a new appreciation for the live stock auction it actually is.

[GB-Brandon]

I agree they aren't taking enough swings at the WR position, but in a best case scenerio, it's 50/50 on every draft pick. There's not a single sure-thing in any draft ever, despite what the "experts" keeps telling you. I could write the script for the TV morons for the first 3 rounds.

"This is a plug and play left tackle for the next 10 years"
"This guy is outstanding in space and is a great north/south runner"
"The guy can absolutely fly and his catch radius is X"
"This guy is going to terrorize QBs for the next decade. He can really bend the corner and his motor never stops"
"The guy is an absolute stud and you've really shored that position up for 10 years"

None of them ever get called out for their absolute whiffs. Watch the draft on mute once. You'll get a new appreciation for the live stock auction it actually is.

I agree with this but this whole "Gute Experience" which I admit the jury is still out on is giving me a new found appreciation for Ted Thompson and I can't believe I'm saying that. I was really upset with Thompson towards the end but now we know why which was a shame. The man knew what to look for. He was able to watch how players move and such and identify talent other then just looking at an RAS Board and saying "Well make this kid a winner". In his prime Thompson really was an amazing talent evaluator and especially when it came to wide receivers.

You look at those receivers he drafted during the earlier years and he just hit and hit again. You watch a lot of those guys and you see the hip movement and the body control along with the twitch and just some of the natural instincts that made them high quality players for the Packers. Thompson was able to identify that and capitalize. With Gute I do feel like its more just "Picking Ponies" so far. If it was as simple as RAS boards then you mine as well call up Renaldo Nehemiah and run him on a 40 yard dash. I'm starting to have serious questions about Gutekunst and time will ultimately tell. I just can't believe were sitting here in 2020 with this situation at WR.
.

[pbmax]

Huge early fails from the Packers current roster:

Aaron Rodgers
Aaron Jones
Jace Sternberger
Davante Adams
Zadarius Smith
Kenny Clark
Kevin King

A whole bunch of guys are just ok or bad as rookies. It's really common for guys to develop from average or below average NFL players in their rookie years, into probowl players.

Aaron Rodgers - poor first camp but everyone knew he was sitting
Aaron Jones - I don't get this one, he was obviously the best back on the roster even when hurt - it showed all of camp
Jace Sternberger - he was hurt
Davante Adams - don't get this one either, was a great 3rd WR as a rookie
Zadarius Smith - dunno
Kenny Clark - played well, wasn't dominating until late. Got better as rookie season progresses. Compare him to Mt Adams or Keke.
Kevin King - was hurt otherwise looked fine

[bobblehead]

C'mon. This point makes Kelce more of a WR than you want to admit. He blocks DBs. Here is a Chefs video of Kelce dominating the DBs. Kelce is basically an H back.

https://www.chiefs.com/video/travis-kelce-doing-an-incredible-job-blocking-to-help-the-running-game-18340202

Most WR can't block even a CB...most won't even try. This is Flowers whole philosophy. I want guy who will either block or beat the man covering him. Thus big WR like Funchess and Lazard.

I know Kelce ain't kittles in the blocking department, but he ain't jimmy fucking graham either. And Kelce destroys teams in the middle of the field because a LB can't cover him and if you use a DB he crushes him in the run game. He is a TE.

And last year while you and Brandon were saying WR was the weakness, I was saying TE. Go back and pull up my threads where I broke positions and see the one re: TE. TE is/was our problem. I am way more concerned with Jace and Tonyan taking a step than I am Lazard.

[bobblehead]

Huh, I didn't know that. /s

Well then why do you think they belong in the top 10 in the league? Why are ours horrible? This thread is about the WR position and honestly KCs is marginally better than ours.

[bobblehead]

So you basically just uncovered another hole in the Packers offense and not having “Elite TE Play.”

I would tend to agree as I don’t believe Sternberger will project to that level. Have to wait and see.

Get it at TE or WR you still need to get it somewhere and we currently don’t.

I didn't "just uncover another hole" I identified the primary hole which I did last year...like for real right here on this board, unlike you who identified WR as the problem in a bar somewhere and now want credit for "knowing it all along". The WR talent on this roster was good enough to get us to 13-3. The D was average, the TEs were awful. We had only one good RB. Its amazing we won 13 games with no TE, no WR, only one RB and a horrible OL (according to tex).

[bobblehead]

Your position on Kelce makes a determination harder.

If Kelce counts as a WR or you just want receiving threats, then KC is better top to bottom.

You could argue that Adams trumps Kelce, but the depth on GB is bad. If Lazard continues to play well for a full year, or Scantron regains form or ESB breaks through, then it might be a closer call. I saw the KC depth make some big plays for them.

Again, the offenses in the SB had one thing in common. An elite TE. Any team not in the SB wasn't better than we were last year. Titans also made a championship game and no one would claim they have better WR than us. We have good enough WR to win it all. We lack at TE. We have all young talent entering a 2nd year in the flower offense + Rodgers. If we don't win this year my guess is it won't be because we lack WR talent.

[RashanGary]

PFF just ranked receiver classes for the 2020 season. Packers ranked 26.

Funchess a nice possession receiver with no big play ability.

Relying heavily on Lazard and Sternberger taking steps.

Pretty much what Brandon and Bretsky are saying.

Realistic. My excitement about Lazard might be misguided.

[RashanGary]

You guys do make sense. There is as much if a chance as those guys not panning out as guys planning out. No way to know for sure right now, honestly, I lean on the side of excitement for the guys making it. But this shit has bit us and the Patriots (banking on finding a LT last year) and 49ers (banking on gorappalo to win a SB) in the ass. Might not be our year.

Might be our year!

[GB-Brandon]

Aaron Rodgers - poor first camp but everyone knew he was sitting
Aaron Jones - I don't get this one, he was obviously the best back on the roster even when hurt - it showed all of camp
Jace Sternberger - he was hurt
Davante Adams - don't get this one either, was a great 3rd WR as a rookie
Zadarius Smith - dunno
Kenny Clark - played well, wasn't dominating until late. Got better as rookie season progresses. Compare him to Mt Adams or Keke.
Kevin King - was hurt otherwise looked fine

Thank you for addressing that for me. It was pretty simple.

[bobblehead]

I agree with this but this whole "Gute Experience" which I admit the jury is still out on is giving me a new found appreciation for Ted Thompson and I can't believe I'm saying that.

This says it all. You are a total monday morning QB who doesn't have time to respond to JHs point, but has plenty of time to bitch and moan non stop.

I on the other hand loved TT and defended him often. I also have been extremely anti Gutes so far. I think we reversed course. Great GM horrible coach. Now we have horrible GM great coach. But I'm a realist and am aware of my table image. We won 13 games and made the NFCC last year with a new offense and a rookie head coach. Thats impressive unless you are a whiny bitch that thinks you are entitled to 4 Owls every 5 years. If we have a horrible year and Gutes picks continue to not impress then I was right. If we have a great year and Gary steps up and Tonyan and Jace step up then Gutes is putting a winner on the field. If fat mike wins 14 games next year in dallas with that loaded roster he is a better coach than I gave him credit for. My guess is jason garrett like results.

[GB-Brandon]

Most WR can't block even a CB...most won't even try. This is Flowers whole philosophy. I want guy who will either block or beat the man covering him. Thus big WR like Funchess and Lazard.

I know Kelce ain't kittles in the blocking department, but he ain't jimmy fucking graham either. And Kelce destroys teams in the middle of the field because a LB can't cover him and if you use a DB he crushes him in the run game. He is a TE.

And last year while you and Brandon were saying WR was the weakness, I was saying TE. Go back and pull up my threads where I broke positions and see the one re: TE. TE is/was our problem. I am way more concerned with Jace and Tonyan taking a step than I am Lazard.

Your making it more difficult then it is though. "It's Still gotta come from Somwhere." Fine, get it at TE and that would be great. The Chiefs are getting it at TE and WR. They have two players, Kelce and Tyreek Hill that are elite. We have one at any of those positions.. They also have a supporting cast much stronger then ours. Once again Watkins, Hardman and D. Robinson trump our guys in any order.

Were comparing apples and oranges here.

For me it just seems harder to find a Kelce then it is an AJ Brown.

[bobblehead]

PFF just ranked receiver classes for the 2020 season. Packers ranked 26.

Funchess a nice possession receiver with no big play ability.

Relying heavily on Lazard and Sternberger taking steps.

Pretty much what Brandon and Bretsky are saying.

Realistic. My excitement about Lazard might be misguided.

Can you have a top 5 WR in the entire league while being so horrible everywhere else as to drop to 26? Doesn't having your #1 WR being better than 27 other teams warrant you finishing ahead of at least 15 of them?

[bobblehead]

Your making it more difficult then it is though. "It's Still gotta come from Somwhere." Fine, get it at TE and that would be great. The Chiefs are getting it at TE and WR. They have two players, Kelce and Tyreek Hill that are elite. We have one at any of those positions.. They also have a supporting cast much stronger then ours. Once again Watkins, Hardman and D. Robinson trump our guys.

Were comparing apples and oranges here.

Well...you are because you keep trying to compare a 5'9" speedster like Tyreek Hill to a 6'5" mauler like Kelce. You say our WR suck. Then you want to use TE as the reason why. Thats the apples to oranges. What you really mean is we don't have the WEAPONS that KC has. Then you must include Jones who was better than any RB KC had last year and the weapons are back to even.

The truth is that KC had it come together last year. Maholmes at his best with enough weapons to work with and all being in the same system for years. Andy Reid arguably designs the best offense in the game, and next would be Shannahan. They played in the big game. We were year one with Flower and just maybe we get better in year 2.

[GB-Brandon]

This says it all. You are a total monday morning QB who doesn't have time to respond to JHs point, but has plenty of time to bitch and moan non stop.

I on the other hand loved TT and defended him often. I also have been extremely anti Gutes so far. I think we reversed course. Great GM horrible coach. Now we have horrible GM great coach. But I'm a realist and am aware of my table image. We won 13 games and made the NFCC last year with a new offense and a rookie head coach. Thats impressive unless you are a whiny bitch that thinks you are entitled to 4 Owls every 5 years. If we have a horrible year and Gutes picks continue to not impress then I was right. If we have a great year and Gary steps up and Tonyan and Jace step up then Gutes is putting a winner on the field. If fat mike wins 14 games next year in dallas with that loaded roster he is a better coach than I gave him credit for. My guess is jason garrett like results.

Lets not get crazy here. TT regressed quite a bit the last few years and more then likely it had to do with his condition. It was not the same TT.

Yes, they had a successful season. The concern is the moves or lack of moves made to actually improve on that season.

4 out 5 years? Maybe a little overboard here? It's been since 2010 and could get a lot longer.

[pbmax]

I'll take a TE to unlock the offense like KC or SF. Bit I am not sure he is here.

Stormbringer might be the answer, I don't know.

I do know they needed some depth and development at WR. Whether such a pick makes a difference this year, even in first round, hard to say. Much depends on those already on roster.

[GB-Brandon]

Well...you are because you keep trying to compare a 5'9" speedster like Tyreek Hill to a 6'5" mauler like Kelce. You say our WR suck. Then you want to use TE as the reason why. Thats the apples to oranges. What you really mean is we don't have the WEAPONS that KC has. Then you must include Jones who was better than any RB KC had last year and the weapons are back to even.

The truth is that KC had it come together last year. Maholmes at his best with enough weapons to work with and all being in the same system for years. Andy Reid arguably designs the best offense in the game, and next would be Shannahan. They played in the big game. We were year one with Flower and just maybe we get better in year 2.

Were stuck living and dying with these guys and hoping for the best. I like how PB put it earlier with a different player. The Chiefs are paying Sammy Watkins 9 million this year. Other then Adams what salary would any of our WR's command on the open market? Some might not even get picked up let alone paid anything of real significance.

That's right. "60-1 Ponies" These odds don't usually work out well.

[GB-Brandon]

Your coming off a 14-4 season and the NFC Champ Game and you have all these "Unknown's" at your areas of your two biggest needs along with pissing off your franchise QB. To me that just isn't smart practice. In fact I find it to be unacceptable. Something is lurking and it doesn't feel right.

[GB-Brandon]

Can you have a top 5 WR in the entire league while being so horrible everywhere else as to drop to 26? Doesn't having your #1 WR being better than 27 other teams warrant you finishing ahead of at least 15 of them?

Not when the rest of bunch is considered mediocre at best. Its also very dangerous to play this game where it all hinges on Adams. There were plays last year where he was triple covered. That's how little respect the rest of the guys get.

[GB-Brandon]

I'll take a TE to unlock the offense like KC or SF. Bit I am not sure he is here.

Stormbringer might be the answer, I don't know.

I do know they needed some depth and development at WR. Whether such a pick makes a difference this year, ben in first round, hard to say. Much depends on those already on roster.

Every team in the league would but as the draft has shown they are hard to hit on. That ship has sailed for the Packers. Much better chance the last few years being able to get a high quality receiver and the Packers passed on a lot of them.

[GB-Brandon]

I can see it now. 3rd down conversions wont be consistent. Guys wont be able to get open other then Adams beating double coverage sometimes. The camera will focus in on Rodgers face and he will be rolling his eyes and making smirks. Fans will get mad and say Rodgers has completely regressed and has a bad attitude etc etc. People will start talking and chirping about Love.

Disaster!!! It's almost like a set up job.

[GB-Brandon]

Well...you are because you keep trying to compare a 5'9" speedster like Tyreek Hill to a 6'5" mauler like Kelce. You say our WR suck. Then you want to use TE as the reason why. Thats the apples to oranges. What you really mean is we don't have the WEAPONS that KC has. Then you must include Jones who was better than any RB KC had last year and the weapons are back to even.

The truth is that KC had it come together last year. Maholmes at his best with enough weapons to work with and all being in the same system for years. Andy Reid arguably designs the best offense in the game, and next would be Shannahan. They played in the big game. We were year one with Flower and just maybe we get better in year 2.

Well since you want to get down to the "Nitty Gritty" they could run the ball when they wanted to. Obviously Jones is better and also in the passing game but the Chiefs averaged "per carry' pretty much on the same mark on the ground.

CARRIES
11140th
RUSHING YARDS
49836th
RUSHING TOUCHDOWNS
5T-24th
YARDS / CARRY
4.5

Jones averaged 4.6 so its not like Williams is some scrub.

[GB-Brandon]

Comparing the offensive firepower between the Packers and the Chiefs is like comparing a Ford Explorer to a Ferrari.

I think we know who the Ford Explorer is.

[Zool]

Well then why do you think they belong in the top 10 in the league? Why are ours horrible? This thread is about the WR position and honestly KCs is marginally better than ours.

Pass catching unit as a whole, they are pretty damned good. Show me where I said ours is horrible. All I said was KC has to be in conversation for best.

[Zool]

Well since you want to get down to the "Nitty Gritty" they could run the ball when they wanted to. Obviously Jones is better and also in the passing game but the Chiefs averaged "per carry' pretty much on the same mark on the ground.

CARRIES
111 - 40th
RUSHING YARDS
498 - 36th
RUSHING TOUCHDOWNS
5T-24th
YARDS / CARRY
4.5

Jones averaged 4.6 so its not like Williams is some scrub.

Took me a minute to figure out what you were saying. I updated the numbers.

[GB-Brandon]

This should end the discussion. Guys running open everywhere. Matt Moore beat the Vikings with these guys and almost beat the Packers.


https://youtu.be/An5kw3TSVro

[RashanGary]

Aaron Rodgers - poor first camp but everyone knew he was sitting
Aaron Jones - I don't get this one, he was obviously the best back on the roster even when hurt - it showed all of camp
Jace Sternberger - he was hurt
Davante Adams - don't get this one either, was a great 3rd WR as a rookie
Zadarius Smith - dunno
Kenny Clark - played well, wasn't dominating until late. Got better as rookie season progresses. Compare him to Mt Adams or Keke.
Kevin King - was hurt otherwise looked fine

You can make a case Lazard showed just as much as any of these guys is the point. They showed something and then got a lot better and more consistent. Lazard could too. A lot of guys get better after their first 10 games. It's not uncommon.

[GB-Brandon]

You can make a case Lazard showed just as much as any of these guys is the point

I understand you love Lazard and that's cool. My thing is I don't understand what you really expect Lazard to be or your vision of him. Do you see the second coming of Jordy Nelson? I am trying to figure out what your seeing here cause I want to see it.

Yeah he came in the Detroit game and Rodgers put a ball on him and he caught it and beat a shitty corner in Tevin Coleman and had a half step on him. Still credit to Lazard for coming in and making that play to help the Packers win the game. He had a nice TD against the Giants and another nice catch in that game. Another nice conversion in Detroit. Nothing earth shattering here. Nothing that just pops off on film where your like wow this guy could be something special.

Now this isn't to say that he can't develop into something but after re-watching some specific film last few nights I see some limitations that are concerning. He isn't very twitchy or explosive(at least on film) and he can struggle with separation at times in and out of cuts. I don't see him running away from people and certainly not someone that would be a major threat after the catch. I am not seeing high end consistent explosive play potential. I'm seeing a guy that you can plug in a pinch. At least at this time I really believe he would be in over his head as a down in down out no.2

So with all this said I am not counting him out. He is young and from everything I can gather he is an extremely hard worker so all the "intangibles" are there. Him and Rodgers seem to like each other which is a plus but lets not ignore needed talent over friendship. I would really much rather like him as a guy that is kind of waiting in the wings for another year so that can maybe overcome some of these things with hard work. I definitely think he is a guy worth developing that can come in and in certain situations give some production. I'm not seeing on film what we need at this time. I think if this is the plan the Packer are asking for a massive jump. I will use Adams as an example. You go watch his rookie tape and he has that film where you go "WOW! This guy could be something special". Adams also was doing things very early in camp his rookie year where you would go "WOW". Lazard just doesn't appear to be quite on that level yet.

So basically that is where i get back to the final analysis that I am not comfortable with this being the big option. If we were rebuilding then fine, give him reps. If were really trying to contend for a Super Bowl we need better at this time.

[RashanGary]

More Mike Evans than Davante Adams....

[GB-Brandon]

More Mike Evans than Davante Adams....

I'm not seeing that either right now. I suppose you can comp it out. I can comp a ton of players to Mike Evans right now. Whether college of pro film Lazard has yet to match Evans explosion "On The Fied" and i'm pretty sure that's why he was a UDFA instead of the 7th overall pick in the draft.

[RashanGary]

Don't bet against this guy, Brandon. #2 WR if i ever saw one.


https://youtu.be/JvMM16OAtp0

[GB-Brandon]

[QUOTE=RashanGary;1062021]Don't bet against this guy, Brandon. #2 WR if i ever saw one.

This guy was gonna be one too someday. Still waiting.


https://youtu.be/DT47wkQyET0

I've been around too long. I don't get excited about these "K-Mart Red Light Special Pipe Dreams" anymore. Someone needs to tell Gute to go get some "Real Nike's." Tired of the fake shit.

[GB-Brandon]

What we have wasted might be unprecedented in all of sports. It's way up there. That's for sure.

[RashanGary]

Top WRs get 20M per year. Yikes. Davante has two years left......

Really hope Lizard and stergburger pan out and we get some re-enforcements soon cuz an ugly situation could get a whole lot uglier in two years.

12 gonna be fucking irate to lose Davante when he's only 29. Gotta think he'd have two more very good, very expensive years at ages 29 and 30.

I'd hate to see 12 done that dirty. It's a business, but shit, the guy has had a great career. Don't wanna see him just drown out in a hopeless situation.

[RashanGary]

Last year and this year kinda suck for 12. There might be like a one year window for him to have a great offense and that one year is 2021 and that's a huge if!

IF lizard and Stergburger are weapons
IF Dillon and Deguara become good in their second years
IF we keep Jones
In Davantes last year

Maybe, barely, maybe, 12 gets one more great year IF everything goes right

Not looking good for 12. Ouchy. I smell what you're stepping in, Brandon. But Love is a sure HOFer. Don't worry! Gutes got this!

[GB-Brandon]

Top WRs get 20M per year. Yikes. Davante has two years left......

Really hope Lizard and stergburger pan out and we get some re-enforcements soon cuz an ugly situation could get a whole lot uglier in two years.
the
12 gonna be fucking irate to lose Davante when he's only 29. Gotta think he'd have two more very good, very expensive years at ages 29 and 30.

I'd hate to see 12 done that dirty. It's a business, but shit, the guy has had a great career. Don't wanna see him just drown out in a hopeless situation.

Kinda looks like the writing is on the wall that neither Rodgers or Adams will be here in two years. I'd imagine Gute will finally get aggressive all the sudden and bring in more receiver talent for his boy Love. That's kinda how I see it playing out.

He is hell bent on making this "His Team."

[Bretsky]

Don't bet against this guy, Brandon. #2 WR if i ever saw one.


https://youtu.be/JvMM16OAtp0


There is a reason he didn't get drafted

Don't get me wrong, I love the Lizard. But he is what he is.....solid 4 maybe a 3

Put him against starters every week and he's not an impact starter

I want him to be our 5 talent wise. But he's not. He might be our 2

[RashanGary]

Don't get me wrong, I love the Lizard. But he is what he is.....solid 4 maybe a 3



His first 10 games, yeah, that's what he was for those 10 games.

Hard to imagine him not being better this year.

[pbmax]

You can make a case Lazard showed just as much as any of these guys is the point. They showed something and then got a lot better and more consistent. Lazard could too. A lot of guys get better after their first 10 games. It's not uncommon.

I basically expect his ceiling is James Jones. Not based on year 1 but based on his skill set.

If we had Jennings or Finley, it would be more than enough.