Why the Packers are better than last year: D edition

[RashanGary]

In two words; experience and cohesiveness. This quality is further amplified by a shortened off-season that will set back new defenses and defenses with a lot of new faces.

The best defenses, especially back 7s rely on veteran experience and trust throughout the group to handle formation checks and route combination checks. Alexander, King, Amos, Savage, Sullivan, Greene and Campbell have all played together. Those who play together prey together. Expect solid. Expect consistent. Expect big plays. Heard it here first!

Up front, same. Guys played together, stayed together, now they gonna prey together. Time for Gary to unleash the beast. As if his workout warrior videos weren't impressive enough last year, now he's down to 275 and they have videos of him moving like a damn safety. Might get some growth there! Not losing anyone of value and no one is aging. Just better!


In summary, the Packers defense is better in 2020 than in 2019 due to experience and cohesion with so many important young players during a shortened off season that will set other teams back. Boom. STFU Brandon! And Bretsky :lol:

[George Cumby]

Homer!

Sheeple!

Kool-aid drinker!

[GB-Brandon]

In two words; experience and cohesiveness. This quality is further amplified by a shortened off-season that will set back new defenses and defenses with a lot of new faces.

The best defenses, especially back 7s rely on veteran experience and trust throughout the group to handle formation checks and route combination checks. Alexander, King, Amos, Savage, Sullivan, Greene and Campbell have all played together. Those who play together prey together. Expect solid. Expect consistent. Expect big plays. Heard it here first!

Up front, same. Guys played together, stayed together, now they gonna prey together. Time for Gary to unleash the beast. As if his workout warrior videos weren't impressive enough last year, now he's down to 275 and they have videos of him moving like a damn safety. Might get some growth there! Not losing anyone of value and no one is aging. Just better!


In summary, the Packers defense is better in 2020 than in 2019 due to experience and cohesion with so many important young players during a shortened off season that will set other teams back. Boom. STFU Brandon! And Bretsky :lol:

”The Best Defenses” can stop the run. I’m not buying any of this until I see it including the Gary Pipe Dream!

Once this “Fairy Tale” collapses can we please fire Gute, Lafluer, Murphy and Pettine?

I’d like to see a re-structure with John Dorsey, Josh McDaniels and Wade Phillips and a new team president that isn’t such a Douche!

We can then get Aaron back to being Aaron and hopefully make a run before it’s too too late.

[Bretsky]

In two words; experience and cohesiveness. This quality is further amplified by a shortened off-season that will set back new defenses and defenses with a lot of new faces.

The best defenses, especially back 7s rely on veteran experience and trust throughout the group to handle formation checks and route combination checks. Alexander, King, Amos, Savage, Sullivan, Greene and Campbell have all played together. Those who play together prey together. Expect solid. Expect consistent. Expect big plays. Heard it here first!

Up front, same. Guys played together, stayed together, now they gonna prey together. Time for Gary to unleash the beast. As if his workout warrior videos weren't impressive enough last year, now he's down to 275 and they have videos of him moving like a damn safety. Might get some growth there! Not losing anyone of value and no one is aging. Just better!


In summary, the Packers defense is better in 2020 than in 2019 due to experience and cohesion with so many important young players during a shortened off season that will set other teams back. Boom. STFU Brandon! And Bretsky :lol:



bunch of cliches jammed into one thread; you are better than this Jh/RG; for effort, I give you in Incomplete on this mess

[Bretsky]

I don't think I'm negative; There is noting wrong with being a marginal playoff team. It could be worse...or better

[mraynrand]

Homer!

Sheeple!

Kool-aid drinker!

Good post. You should always save the Kool Aid for last.

[texaspackerbacker]

Good Job, RashanGary. This thread is a breath of fresh air and a good counter to the idiocy being spewed by some people in here. What you said about improvement due to cohesiveness in our secondary (plus Greene back from injury and maybe experience from a couple of young guys) makes a lot of sense.

There also should be some addition by subtraction up front if we get rid of Lancaster and make less use of Lowery. I'm not gonna say the same for Fackrell - who I had a high opinion of, or Martinez either, but it's pretty likely that we at least replaced them with something equal, maybe better. And of course, there is your guy, Gary - we can always hope. The player I want to see do good is Gerald Willis.

Keep on fighting the good fight against the idiots and shitheads. I look forward to a similar post about the offense.

[pbmax]

Healthy Raven Green is the likeliest and best reason for improvement.

[Bretsky]

The Sky is the Limit for Mark Murphy and the Northwestern connection

[Joemailman]

The Green Bay Packers have signed DL Treyvon Hester. General Manager Brian Gutekunst announced the transaction Friday.

Hester (6-2, 304), a fourth-year player out of the University of Toledo, was originally selected by the Oakland Raiders in the seventh round (No. 244 overall) of the 2017 NFL Draft. He has appeared in 41 games with two starts during his career and has registered 40 tackles (19 solo), two sacks, a forced fumble and a fumble recovery. Hester played for the Raiders in 2017 (14 games played, one start), the Philadelphia Eagles in 2018 (12 games, one start) and the Washington Redskins in 2019 (15 games). He will wear No. 93 for the Packers.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/treyvon-hester?id=2558111


ANALYSIS
STRENGTHS Has decent power at the point of attack. Fairly athletic. Shows an ability to shed quickly to make tackles. Good reactive quickness allows for sudden shifts to make tackles against running backs trying to dart through gaps nearby. Highly instinctive. Keys on his man pulling and will work around the down-block coming his way to scrape and follow the play. Initial quickness laterally is solid. Effective arm over frees him from a block on his edge. Has very active hands as a rusher. Swipes and chops consistently at blocker's punch to try and keep himself clean. Able to maneuver around pass blocks if he gets an early advantage.
WEAKNESSES Plays too straight-legged. Base is often way too narrow in his operation. Plays with inconsistent pad level. Shows issues with contact balance when he's playing too tall. Inconsistent get-off into the neutral zone. Will drop head into his initial contact and lose sight of the ball at times. Motor will fizzle out the longer a rep lasts. Pursuit effort can run hot and cold. Effort rusher who may not have the skill level to play on pass downs.
DRAFT PROJECTION Round 6-7
BOTTOM LINE Three-technique with good size and quickness, Hester plays with active hands and he has a shot to become a disruptive, rotational defensive tackle if he can continue to improve at the point of attack.

[Tony Oday]

Easily a playoff team and more than likely dominate the NFC.

[pbmax]

Easily a playoff team and more than likely dominate the NFC.

You are still reverse jinxing this are you, you son of a gun!

[QBME]

”The Best Defenses” can stop the run. I’m not buying any of this until I see it including the Gary Pipe Dream!

Once this “Fairy Tale” collapses can we please fire Gute, Lafluer, Murphy and Pettine?

I’d like to see a re-structure with John Dorsey, Josh McDaniels and Wade Phillips and a new team president that isn’t such a Douche!

We can then get Aaron back to being Aaron and hopefully make a run before it’s too too late.

Holy cryin' out loud.
It just hit me like a ton of bricks...
You're Tank part three!!!
You remain funny....

[RashanGary]

Holy cryin' out loud.
It just hit me like a ton of bricks...
You're Tank part three!!!
You remain funny....

I've been thinking it's tank too, haha! Dude disappears and someone equally relentless appears in his place.

[George Cumby]

Holy cryin' out loud.
It just hit me like a ton of bricks...
You're Tank part three!!!
You remain funny....

Ho.

Lee.

Cow.

ROFLMAO.

[MadtownPacker]

Holy cryin' out loud.
It just hit me like a ton of bricks...
You're Tank part three!!!
You remain funny....Tank part 3? There has been more Tanks than there is players on defense.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't think so. He was a little too spot on with some of his draft analysis (he liked Jason Huntley, Jalen Reagor, and Brandon Aiyuk). Those were pretty astute.

[GB-Brandon]

I don't think so. He was a little too spot on with some of his draft analysis (he liked Jason Huntley, Jalen Reagor, and Brandon Aiyuk). Those were pretty astute.

Don’t forget too add

Jordyn Brooks
Lucas Niang
Denzel Mims
Quintez Cephus
Quez Watkins
James Proche
Raekwon Davis
Devon Hamilton
AJ Dillon

[GB-Brandon]

We could of plugged a few holes instead of everyone trying to sell themselves on “How were gonna get Luckier than last year”

[call_me_ishmael]

Personally, I predict the Packers aren't done building their DL. I think they need another long boi DE to go into the season. There's gotta be a few walking the streets looking for a squad. Hell, I'd maybe even put in a call to old JP and see if he'd give another another go.

[GB-Brandon]

All Gute did was basically get our HOF QB salty and start a “Civil War” amongst the fan base.

My Oh My how I see people practice amnesia from what was being said around here after the Niners game and the only difference is minus Martinez and plus Kirksey.

[George Cumby]

Tank part 3? There has been more Tanks than there is players on defense.

Well. One can never have enough Shut Down Corners.

[mraynrand]

All Gute did was basically get our HOF QB salty and start a “Civil War” amongst the fan base.

My Oh My how I see people practice amnesia from what was being said around here after the Niners game and the only difference is minus Martinez and plus Kirksey.

I cant think of anyone other than Tex who truly thinks they’ve solved the run ‘defense’ that was gashed by SF. Still it’s one team. Packers probably still believe in their pass focused defensive approach and are probably banking on maturity increase for some on the defense, a better scheme for SF, and a better ball/clock control offense to counter them. I’m skeptical, but that seems to be the plan.

[mraynrand]

Well. One can never have enough Shut Down Corners.

If Brandon starts posting lyrics, then it’s a lock.

[call_me_ishmael]

You know what's going to chap my ass? When Kevin King stays healthy enough this year to earn another contract and then gets hurt again.

[Smidgeon]

The saddest part to me is that the greater internet will never become aware of the legend of tank and his persistence.

[mraynrand]

The saddest part to me is that the greater internet will never become aware of the legend of tank and his persistence.

I hold all of you responsible What have you done to spread the legend of the Tank Duke elf?

[pbmax]

While the basic and obvious among you continue to debate the divas and darlings on offense, the more serious-minded people on this board are asking a question that is still begging for an answer:

How will they play better run defense in 2020? Mike Pettine weighs in and doesn't say a whole lot.

Bill Huber @BillHuberSI
Pettine calls Kirksey a great signing. Has head-start in learning system. Worth it despite injury history.

Bill Huber @BillHuberSI
Run defense was “beyond disappointing” vs Niners, Pettine says. Energy, effort, scheme weren’t good enough.

Bill Huber @BillHuberSI
Without Tramon (for now, anyway), Pettine says he was really good last year. Will he play here, elsewhere or retire?

Bill Huber @BillHuberSI
Pettine says there was never a moment that he didn’t think he’d be back.

Wes Hodkiewicz @WesHod
Pettine identifies Kingsley Keke as a young player who could take a big jump in 2020. Ideally want to take some snaps off Kenny Clark and build the rotation a little more.

[pbmax]

Wes Hodkiewicz @WesHod
Mike Pettine sees Rashan Gary having a "significantly increased role" in Year 2, giving more breaks to the Smiths. "Because of his skill set, we can use him like we use Z on third downs in the tackle spot" #Packers

Pettine owning what happened with the run defense vs. San Francisco. Wrong time to play their worst game. "It was a tough pill to swallow. I hate for it to tarnish what we did during the season, winning 14 games. ... Won't sweep it under the carpet. It's a focal point" #Packers

Pettine identifies Kingsley Keke as a young player who could take a big jump in 2020. Ideally want to take some snaps off Kenny Clark and build the rotation a little more.

Despite Fackrell's departure, Pettine still feels this is one of the deepest OLB rooms he's had #Packers

[RashanGary]

Pettine touched on the secondary playing together in their second year being an advantage, especially Amos and savage. Said Savage showed everything they thought he was last year. Excited to see him in year 2

Said all teams might have to stick with the basics a little longer because of lack of off-season reps.

Keke growth would be huge. Gary as well. You get that, along with a more assignment sure secondary and I think some good things can happen.

Bad matchup with SF last year. But SF lost Buckner and Sanders and replaced them with rookies. Might not run into worst case scenario matchup next year. Might get them at home. They might get knocked off. Just a bad matchup with such a run oriented team. We have a lot better chance if the 9ers regress or get knocked off. Still think they're a bad matchup, but 2020 is a new year.

[RashanGary]

49ers and Ravens worst case scenario for Packers. Just stacked in a way that we struggle against that kind of offense.

If the 9ers and Ravens get knocked off instead of us having to beat them, we match up a lot better against the rest of the league, including KC.

[texaspackerbacker]

That sounds good (the Wes Hodkiewicz article), but the whole thing depends on getting decent coverage from those Corners often left out on an island. Even if we get top level play from the Smiths and maybe Gary and/or some other edge rusher, there are gonna be times, probably way more than half of all pass plays when they do not get to the QB. We have one very good Corner who got beat way too many times last year and several other possibilities who are very unlikely to cover for more than a second or two. I have a hard time seeing how this situation can improve with current personnel. More zone pass D would help IMO, but it seems like Pettine is stubbornly opposed to doing that.

[RashanGary]

I incorrectly thought the WR position would be fine last year. Lazard was too green. MVS too incomplete as a player. One trick pony really. Everyone else pathetic. Just wrong!

This year I like the defense because of growth within but I'm running the risk of pb always being right and developing a reputation as a Kool aid drinking homer.

I'm a gambler though. That's a risk I'm willing to take :wink:

Improved D!!!

[GB-Brandon]

The defense will fine under three circumstances . The offense can get a lead and they avoid teams that employ any kind of Power run game.

Other then that they need to duplicate the health level of last year.

[wist43]

My biggest worry on defense is the DL... and of course, like WR, Gute added nothing here.

We need a big jump from Keke if we are to see any improvement against the run. I like Keke a lot, so we'll see.

I expect our secondary will be better.

[Bretsky]

My biggest worry on defense is the DL... and of course, like WR, Gute added nothing here.

We need a big jump from Keke if we are to see any improvement against the run. I like Keke a lot, so we'll see.

I expect our secondary will be better.



Your boy Blacklock was sitting there for you at 30

I think the Texans grabbed him

[wist43]

Your boy Blacklock was sitting there for you at 30

I think the Texans grabbed him

There were a few guys there at 30 that I liked on both sides of the ball...

Love may turn out to be the next Mahomes, but we won't know that for at least 4 years. With Ted's approach we won 1 SB in 15 years - all while 2 HOF QB's were under center.

To me, that's a failure.

We'll be better this year I think, with more continuity and maturity, but that won't be enough to overcome the teams in front of us.

[RashanGary]

SF is an absolute matchup disaster against the Packers.

SF gonna miss Buckner. No rookie can replace that. Sanders too. Hopefully they get knocked off and we have a gauntlet of passing teams to face on the road to the Owl. That would help.

Seattle, St Louis and a much improved Arizona are gonna he scheming to take down the bully on the block too.

[Zool]

There were a few guys there at 30 that I liked on both sides of the ball...

Love may turn out to be the next Mahomes, but we won't know that for at least 4 years. With Ted's approach we won 1 SB in 15 years - all while 2 HOF QB's were under center.

To me, that's a failure.

We'll be better this year I think, with more continuity and maturity, but that won't be enough to overcome the teams in front of us.

Under Thompson and Wolf they won 2 in 25 years. How many did Marino win in Miami?

[GB-Brandon]

SF is an absolute matchup disaster against the Packers.

SF gonna miss Buckner. No rookie can replace that. Sanders too. Hopefully they get knocked off and we have a gauntlet of passing teams to face on the road to the Owl. That would help.

Seattle, St Louis and a much improved Arizona are gonna he scheming to take down the bully on the block too.

Once again I think your underestimating potential rookie contribution. I expect Kinlaw to eventually be an upgrade over Buckner. He will for sure adequately fill in for what they do as a rookie.

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-javon-kinlaw-stands-out-as-top-prospect-on-day-1-at-2020-senior-bowl

They also got Aiyuk who I had as the 5th best receiver in the draft. Lynch traded up for him because he knew he is gonna be a stud. You pair Aiyuk with Deebo and they can now go “BOTH WAYS” which nobody in the NFL can currently match up with. The Niners aggressively made moves to continue their bid for a world championship. They basically put on a clinic on how to do it too.

Seattle is done. They’re old and just getting older through free agency. This should be the end for the
Pete Carroll era. Wilson will win then some games but they might not even be able to rely on there crowd noise this year.

The Cardinals are a team to watch. Lots of new talent but they still might be a year out.

The Rams are missing pieces.

Unless the Niners get ravaged by injuries the Packers will still eventually have to win in San Francisco and We have done almost zero to make that any type of reality.

[RashanGary]

Unless the Niners get ravaged by injuries the Packers will still eventually have to win in San Francisco and We have done almost zero to make that any type of reality.

We'll see.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I disagree with the statement that we've done nothing to get better against the Niners. I think our off-season has been filled with the Niners in mind. Our biggest move on defense (Kirksey) gives use more speed at ILB to combat them. Dillon and Deguara are moves with the Niners in mind. How do you beat the Niners and especially their pass rush? You do like Arizona and Seattle. You grind them down in the run game. With their pass rush, you aren't going to sit in 4 WRs all games and try to throw on them.

[GB-Brandon]

I disagree with the statement that we've done nothing to get better against the Niners. I think our off-season has been filled with the Niners in mind. Our biggest move on defense (Kirksey) gives use more speed at ILB to combat them. Dillon and Deguara are moves with the Niners in mind. How do you beat the Niners and especially their pass rush? You do like Arizona and Seattle. You grind them down in the run game. With their pass rush, you aren't going to sit in 4 WRs all games and try to throw on them.

The Chiefs did.

[Joemailman]

The Chiefs did.

No they didn't. Chiefs WR's had 202 combined snaps on 79 plays. That comes out to an average of 2.5 WR's per snap. 49ers were 2.4.

[GB-Brandon]

No they didn't. Chiefs WR's had 202 combined snaps on 79 plays. That comes out to an average of 2.5 WR's per snap. 49ers were 2.4.

Okay but Mahommes threw the ball 42 times. They mixed in some run but they beat the niners and coming back “Throwing the Ball”

It’s sure and the hell wasn’t by some big power run game.

[GB-Brandon]

Matt Ryan threw the ball 39 times then the Falcons beat them.

Russell Wilson threw the ball 34 times when the Seahawks beat them.

[GB-Brandon]

See the Niners aren’t like the Packers. The Niners can stop the run “if they want too”. The Packers CAN’T. That’s the difference and if people think adding Kirksey is gonna make this run defense have a night and day difference then need there head examined.

[RashanGary]

Okay but Mahommes threw the ball 42 times. They mixed in some run but they beat the niners and coming back “Throwing the Ball”

It’s sure and the hell wasn’t by some big power run game.

It's interesting how the two teams in the SB like to use TEs and backs though.

Conventional thought is it helps get matchups and keep defenses focused on both the run and pass so they can't commit to stopping one over the other.

Offensive balance creates defensive imbalance is the theory. Chiefs seem to subscribe.

I'm not opposed to other methods when the personnel fits something better, but the run/pass concept is a pretty solid one. Becoming more of a trend since the huge QB years a few years back.

[GB-Brandon]

The only chance in hell this team has to beat the Niners is throw the ball actually and get the lead. Force a turnover and then get Garapalo throwing 34-40 times.

That’s are big chance. We’re not gonna line up against the Niners and beat them at smash mouth and field position with this Mickey Mouse Defense.

[GB-Brandon]

Gute and LaFluer and Pettine are fucking up the “Winning Formula.”

[GB-Brandon]

Go fix giving up 186 yards rushing before contact before anyone even makes a peep about beating the Niners.

[GB-Brandon]

See, the Philosophy being pushed here is a sham. We can’t match up against the Niners the way they want us too. They’re just bigger, faster, meaner and better. We’re overmatched. Adding a power back an H-Back doesn’t even nearly close the gap.

However, Rodgers is > then Garapalo. We need to get the game to match up that way and if we can or could the chances start to play in our favor. Once again Gute didn’t make the required moves for this to happen or even give us a fighting chance.

This is just another example of many how the Packers have failed to put adequate talent around their most talented player. Why can’t this organization embrace “who we are” and make it work? It really isn’t rocket science. The frustration meter with many fans is about to blow through the roof when this sham their pushing fails cause the Way With Rodgers will have expired.

[texaspackerbacker]

Brandon, I agree with you on a couple of points. A team with a mobile QB like Mahomes or Wilson - or Rodgers - can use 4 WRs for a lot of plays against the Niners. In addition to the passing, it spreads the D and opens up running room - maybe. Also, I agree, Kirksey alone isn't gonna make the Packers an effective run stopping team. He's pretty much a wash with Martinez. The problem lies with the D Line - everybody last year not named Clark. Some people are hopeful about Keke. I have more hope for the UDFA Gerald Willis. We certainly need somebody to step up there.

The Niners were not unbeatable last season, and they may be slightly less good this year. We just had the misfortune to catch them playing at the top of their game. Atlanta, for example, and maybe some others did not.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Matt Ryan threw the ball 39 times then the Falcons beat them.

Russell Wilson threw the ball 34 times when the Seahawks beat them.

Matt Ryan plays for Atlanta. I said Arizona. A bad Arizona team kept the game close by having a 50/50 run/pass split.

The Seattle game was an OT game, so more plays. They threw the ball 34 times and ran the ball 34 times.

[pbmax]

Under Thompson and Wolf they won 2 in 25 years. How many did Marino win in Miami?

Zero. As important, are the company you keep.


NWE 6
DEN 3
DAL 3
BAL 2
NYG 2
GNB 2
PIT 2
KAN 1
PHI 1
SEA 1
NOR 1
IND 1
TAM 1
STL 1
SFO 1

[pbmax]

If they stop turning the ball over in the first half, beating the 49ers is eminently doable.

[pbmax]

Matt Ryan plays for Atlanta. I said Arizona. A bad Arizona team kept the game close by having a 50/50 run/pass split.

The Seattle game was an OT game, so more plays. They threw the ball 34 times and ran the ball 34 times.

Falcons are legit data point. I did not see the game but they had 290 yards of offense and SF had 2 TOs. Most of their offense was passing (2:1 yards). I suspect the TOs helped a great deal.

[RashanGary]

Falcons are legit data point. I did not see the game but they had 290 yards of offense and SF had 2 TOs. Most of their offense was passing (2:1 yards). I suspect the TOs helped a great deal.

Almost every game has more passing yards. The principle of balance applies because the defense is unsure what play will be used by the offense, hence slowing their aggression toward any one or the other.

[GB-Brandon]

Brandon, I agree with you on a couple of points. A team with a mobile QB like Mahomes or Wilson - or Rodgers - can use 4 WRs for a lot of plays against the Niners. In addition to the passing, it spreads the D and opens up running room - maybe. Also, I agree, Kirksey alone isn't gonna make the Packers an effective run stopping team. He's pretty much a wash with Martinez. The problem lies with the D Line - everybody last year not named Clark. Some people are hopeful about Keke. I have more hope for the UDFA Gerald Willis. We certainly need somebody to step up there.

The Niners were not unbeatable last season, and they may be slightly less good this year. We just had the misfortune to catch them playing at the top of their game. Atlanta, for example, and maybe some others did not.

Then go get Jadaveon Clowney on a 1 year deal and close the gap more. At least then I could buy into this whole theory that we’re gonna beat the Niners at their own game.

[pbmax]

Almost every game has more passing yards. The principle of balance applies because the defense is unsure what play will be used by the offense, hence slowing their aggression toward any one or the other.

Look at the other SF losses. Its not 2:1 passing to rush yards. Both Seattle (to its detriment at times last year) and Arizona ran like their very lives depended on it.

[texaspackerbacker]

Then go get Jadaveon Clowney on a 1 year deal and close the gap more. At least then I could buy into this whole theory that we’re gonna beat the Niners at their own game.

But Clowney would be an edge rusher in Pettine's system - a slightly bigger maybe or maybe not better Smith. We need somebody very much like Kenny Clark.

[RashanGary]

A second Kenny Clark would give us a NFC front runners shot at the SB. So weird to hear people talking about receivers

[Radagast]

In two words; experience and cohesiveness. This quality is further amplified by a shortened off-season that will set back new defenses and defenses with a lot of new faces.

The best defenses, especially back 7s rely on veteran experience and trust throughout the group to handle formation checks and route combination checks. Alexander, King, Amos, Savage, Sullivan, Greene and Campbell have all played together. Those who play together prey together. Expect solid. Expect consistent. Expect big plays. Heard it here first!

Up front, same. Guys played together, stayed together, now they gonna prey together. Time for Gary to unleash the beast. As if his workout warrior videos weren't impressive enough last year, now he's down to 275 and they have videos of him moving like a damn safety. Might get some growth there! Not losing anyone of value and no one is aging. Just better!


In summary, the Packers defense is better in 2020 than in 2019 due to experience and cohesion with so many important young players during a shortened off season that will set other teams back. Boom. STFU Brandon! And Bretsky :lol:


Responding to your original thread post, I'm pleased to agree with most of your case. I would like to add to it with this: ILB may not be so in need as some believe. Oren Burks should finally get his starting chance and will be joined by Christian Kirksey. Kirksey brings with him the experience of playing under Pettine in Cleveland.

Additionally, CBs Darnell Savage and Jaire Alexander could be the best CB duo in the 2020 NFL. My D concern now lies with the men in the trenches. Often stopping a running attack or a successful pass rush starts with the D-Line. Fighting off blocks to make the tackle or push through to opposing QBs. I'm pleased that the depth on both the D and O lines are better positioned to carry on "when" the unwanted but inevitable injuries occur.

[RashanGary]

King/Alexander/Amos/Savage could easily push to be tops in the league. I like Sullivan too.

[RashanGary]

PFF has

Patriots
49ers
Vikings
Bills
Steelers
Cowboys
Packers

Packers at 7th overall last year in coverage. 49ers a bit of an outlier with that pass rush allowing them to be more aggressive.

But the Packers should rise. #1 would not shock me

[texaspackerbacker]

You don't think the Packers were artificially high last season also due to good pass rush?

[RashanGary]

Really want to see Daniels signed back. More than Tramon, Daniels is healthy right now and he'd be a great 1 year rental for what we need

[RashanGary]

You don't think the Packers were artificially high last season also due to good pass rush?

Yeah, but all 4 guys learning to work together in positions that require cohesion.... Packers secondary is primed for a huge season. Let's call them top 10 last year due to pass rush adjustment. This year is going to be significantly better.

[GB-Brandon]

But Clowney would be an edge rusher in Pettine's system - a slightly bigger maybe or maybe not better Smith. We need somebody very much like Kenny Clark.

He has played 3-4 defensive end before at Houston. He is exactly the what we need to pair with Kenny Clark. Pass rush would be amazing and Clowney is so gifted he can hold up against the run as a 3-4 DE.

The Seahawks moved him around some too and used him inside at times.

[GB-Brandon]

We had this whole discussion last year after the Niners Debacle. Nothing has really changed but Kirksey.

As I posted before Pettine is supposed to be some 3-4, 4-3 guru with the ability to alter both schemes to his talent. He needs to get it done.

[Radagast]

IMO, the weakest part of what will be a top 10 defense in 2020 will be the D-line. Lowery, Clark, and Lancaster (LCL) are qualified starters, but I've not seen any among them that have equaled the level of a Gilbert Brown. "LCL'" don't have the talent of a Fletcher Cox (Phil) or Jurrell Casey (Tenn). GB did, once upon a time, have Aaron Donald, but he plays for the Rams now and won't return to GB, IMO. I have read of using Rashan Gary as a special inside blitzer to take advantage of his physical strength, but that remains to be seen yet.

The D-line is the primary first line of defense against the run. Sweeps and end runs remain the responsibility of the OLBs and the Safeties. ILBs and OLBs "BACK UP THE LINE"! While I'm comfortable with GB's current starting LBs, I do want to see better depth at those important positions. Should a starter go down, who would best fill the void, Ramsey/Bolton/Summers/or Gary?

[RashanGary]

DL is pedestrian. Unless Keke somehow jumps above Lowry and Lancaster, it's not looking good up there.

[RashanGary]

If you look at the OLBs along with the DL

Z, Clark, Preston, Lowry, Lancaster, Gary and Keke...... You start to feel a little better. Not world beaters, but not bad either

7th-8th overall defense isn't unrealistic

[GB-Brandon]

IMO, the weakest part of what will be a top 10 defense in 2020 will be the D-line. Lowery, Clark, and Lancaster (LCL) are qualified starters, but I've not seen any among them that have equaled the level of a Gilbert Brown. "LCL'" don't have the talent of a Fletcher Cox (Phil) or Jurrell Casey (Tenn). GB did, once upon a time, have Aaron Donald, but he plays for the Rams now and won't return to GB, IMO. I have read of using Rashan Gary as a special inside blitzer to take advantage of his physical strength, but that remains to be seen yet.

The D-line is the primary first line of defense against the run. Sweeps and end runs remain the responsibility of the OLBs and the Safeties. ILBs and OLBs "BACK UP THE LINE"! While I'm comfortable with GB's current starting LBs, I do want to see better depth at those important positions. Should a starter go down, who would best fill the void, Ramsey/Bolton/Summers/or Gary?

This is what I was hoping but he is losing weight and not gaining weight or even staying at his playing weight last year. There gonna plug him into what Fackrell did but everything I’ve seen of Gary “In Space” is mostly a disaster. The jump he has to make is monumental. This pick is a bust. They should just throw weight on him and salvage him as a DE and count their losses.

[RashanGary]

I lack patience and like to jump the gun. Always felt it was a weakness. Shit, it might be a strength. Some packer fans on Twitter and Brandon make me feel really calm and collected.

[GB-Brandon]

I lack patience and like to jump the gun. Always felt it was a weakness. Shit, it might be a strength. Some packer fans on Twitter and Brandon make me feel really calm and collected.

Spend a training camp watching him and get back to me.

[RashanGary]

Spend a training camp watching him and get back to me.

I went quite a bit last year. Adams and Alexander were the best competition to watch.

[RashanGary]

King looked good too. I think king should get more chances vs Adams to sharpen his craft.

[GB-Brandon]

King looked good too. I think king should get more chances vs Adams to sharpen his craft.

I think King has developed nicely and is poised to have a good season which is gonna make for a real difficult decision for the Packers.

He has come along. When he first got here he was just so “Grabby”. He has cleaned that up quite a bit. Then there is the “Health Thing”

I see the Packers letting him go. This was our year to push in no doubt about it.

[texaspackerbacker]

Yeah, but all 4 guys learning to work together in positions that require cohesion.... Packers secondary is primed for a huge season. Let's call them top 10 last year due to pass rush adjustment. This year is going to be significantly better.

I guess you've passed me up as top optimist in the Packer section of the forum hahahaha. More power to you for that.

Yeah, cohesion is important, but in the Pettine system of all out man coverage, the premium is being able to cover on an island. I don't see King doing an adequate job of that even healthy. Alexander, as good as he is, just barely gets the job done - good against most WRs, not so good against the top tier. I really wish they were so damn stubborn about not playing zone. This cohesive bunch might be really special in that kind of D.

I never heard it said that Pettine was a 3/4 and 4/3 genius. It seems like we have generally had personnel better suited for 4/3 and not played it. The reason our Corners are on those islands and so much man coverage in general is that the Smiths and Gary are anything but classic OLBs. They are excellent at what they do, being edge rushers, but like somebody said in this thread, LBs back up the line, and that ain't their strong suit. Don't get me wrong, I like going all in for pass rush, and ideally, I don't hate man coverage. I just think coaches should let personnel dictate the style of D they play, not the other way around.

[pbmax]

He has played 3-4 defensive end before at Houston. He is exactly the what we need to pair with Kenny Clark. Pass rush would be amazing and Clowney is so gifted he can hold up against the run as a 3-4 DE.

The Seahawks moved him around some too and used him inside at times.

I think Gary and Smith get those snap inside on passing downs. But they need OLB depth so maybe there is a spot? Doubt the price works though.

I'd like a run stuffer (Harrison) or an upgrade over Lowry at 3 tech. Ideally, big enough to hold a gap but with some pass rush, however, then I am describing half the League's shopping list.

[Bretsky]

I think Gary and Smith get those snap inside on passing downs. But they need OLB depth so maybe there is a spot? Doubt the price works though.

I'd like a run stuffer (Harrison) or an upgrade over Lowry at 3 tech. Ideally, big enough to hold a gap but with some pass rush, however, then I am describing half the League's shopping list.


How can we possibly upgrade somebody from Northwestern ? :))))

[texaspackerbacker]

Does anybody know the status of Gerald Willis - former 1st round pick, just 24 yrs old, apparently signed as a UDFA by the Packers? I read an article about the Packers D Line and no mention of him even though supposedly the whole bunch were listed. I Googled him and it still says "Packers D Lineman".

[run pMc]

Does anybody know the status of Gerald Willis - former 1st round pick, just 24 yrs old, apparently signed as a UDFA by the Packers? I read an article about the Packers D Line and no mention of him even though supposedly the whole bunch were listed. I Googled him and it still says "Packers D Lineman".

I believe Willis is still on the roster... and he was a UDFA signed by BAL originally. Perhaps you were thinking of Gerald McCoy?

[GB-Brandon]

I think Gary and Smith get those snap inside on passing downs. But they need OLB depth so maybe there is a spot? Doubt the price works though.

I'd like a run stuffer (Harrison) or an upgrade over Lowry at 3 tech. Ideally, big enough to hold a gap but with some pass rush, however, then I am describing half the League's shopping list.

Gary needs to be beefed up and become a 5 tech DE. That’s our only hope with him. Clowney is a top 25 player in the whole league. Just a very rare and unique talent. He can defend run and disrupt and rush passer. Pettine would have the final piece to make it all work and potentially make the defense elite.

[Sparkey]

This is what I was hoping but he is losing weight and not gaining weight or even staying at his playing weight last year. There gonna plug him into what Fackrell did but everything I’ve seen of Gary “In Space” is mostly a disaster. The jump he has to make is monumental. This pick is a bust. They should just throw weight on him and salvage him as a DE and count their losses.

Your the jag that talks over everyone at a party, right?

There are some things you bring up that I don't disagree with, but other times your just a fuck nob that thinks he has all the answers and likes to hear himself talk.

All those absolutes you share. Must be lonely being smarter than everyone else.

[GB-Brandon]

Your the jag that talks over everyone at a party, right?

There are some things you bring up that I don't disagree with, but other times your just a fuck nob that thinks he has all the answers and likes to hear himself talk.

All those absolutes you share. Must be lonely being smarter than everyone else.

So are you telling me I should take it Live? It has crossed my mind.

I’m not gonna bend my views to appease the masses on some of these “Fairy Tale Narratives.” I’m sorry but it’s just too much of a stretch for me. However; they have just as much right to post what they believe as I do and likewise to challenge my view as I do theirs. There are several “feel good” and “positive posts” I have done on Packer players and Moves that the organization has made over the years.

You really don’t have to read what I post. I’m simply following the teams moves and adding some insightful things I’ve seen with my own two eyeballs as a direction to my posts. It’s definitely not “main stream.”

[pbmax]

Gary needs to be beefed up and become a 5 tech DE. That’s our only hope with him. Clowney is a top 25 player in the whole league. Just a very rare and unique talent. He can defend run and disrupt and rush passer. Pettine would have the final piece to make it all work and potentially make the defense elite.

OK, in the Land of Oz, Gary gains weight to become the most freakishly athletic 5 tech ever and the Packers find the money to sing Clowney.

Here on planet Earth, Gary (a ~270 rush end, OLB, EDGE) and Smith will be in inside in a NASCAR package on must pass downs and maybe Snacks gets signed to help beef up the line.

[GB-Brandon]

OK, in the Land of Oz, Gary gains weight to become the most freakishly athletic 5 tech ever and the Packers find the money to sing Clowney.

Here on planet Earth, Gary (a ~270 rush end, OLB, EDGE) and Smith will be in inside in a NASCAR package on must pass downs and maybe Snacks gets signed to help beef up the line.

But it has kinda become the “land of OZ.” Don’t you get it? Where we ignore needs and blow picks and trade up to draft a QB that threw 17 interceptions last year at Utah State after reaching from Mars and taking Gary with the 12th pick of the last draft that also had serious production issues at Michigan.

Please tell Toto “That Were Not In KANSAS Anymore”

[texaspackerbacker]

I believe Willis is still on the roster... and he was a UDFA signed by BAL originally. Perhaps you were thinking of Gerald McCoy?

hahahaha I wish we'd gotten McCoy - he was signed by the Cowboys. Willis is potentially a star quality player, but he's an under-achiever. I don't know if the Packers staff can get him motivated, but he could be just what we need in the D Line.

[GB-Brandon]

Maybe this puts it in better perspective. Based on points this is investment made.

Rashan Gary 12th Pick. = 1200pts
Jordan Love 30th, 136th = 658 pts

Total = 1858 draft pts.

= “On The Bench”

Totally Unacceptable.

[RashanGary]

There are a whole bunch of good viewpoints here, Brandon. Lots of people see things differently than you, and if you stick around long enough, you'll see they're right a bunch of the time, just like you probably are a bunch of the time.

One thing I've never seen, not from McGinns scouts, any NFL GM and not from anyone who's ever posted here. I've never seen someone right all of the time.

Ease up, cowboy, youre just an imperfect human like the rest of humanity. You don't know it all. Get over yourself.

[GB-Brandon]

There are a whole bunch of good viewpoints here, Brandon. Lots of people see things differently than you, and if you stick around long enough, you'll see they're right a bunch of the time, just like you probably are a bunch of the time.

One thing I've never seen, not from McGinns scouts, any NFL GM and not from anyone who's ever posted here. I've never seen someone right all of the time.

Ease up, cowboy, youre just an imperfect human like the rest of humanity. You don't know it all. Get over yourself.

I’m dealing with this the best I can whether right or indifferent. If you can’t tell I’m furious over what’s going on. You haven’t seen the years of my views because I haven’t been on this forum and that’s fine. To me the unthinkable has happened and it’s way way deeper then them not getting the guy or guys I wanted. They didn’t get “Any Guys” as far as I’m concerned of what they needed which “we all saw last season” so this isn’t some giant conspiracy theory.

What’s funny is this story is just “warming up.” We’re not even halfway through the 1st chapter. We’re just finishing up the introduction.

[RashanGary]

This forum moved here after the journal sentinel message board went to shit. 2006.

I've been around all these people since before the Rodgers pick.

Nothing you're saying is unique. We've been here before. We're calm and used to this shit.

It's understandable. But most of us are just calm and used to it so we wait and see. Experience changed us all, as far as I can tell. I wouldn't expect anyone to see your viewpoint with anymore trust than we see McGinns scouts who are wrong so often. You're just a person. We don't worship you or think you're right about everything, no matter how stubborn you get about things. I tried once upon a time too. I'm not that special. I think there's a good chance you'll see how you're not that special over time too.

[GB-Brandon]

This forum moved here after the journal sentinel message board went to shit. 2006.

I've been around all these people since before the Rodgers pick.

Nothing you're saying is unique. We've been here before. We're calm and used to this shit.

It's understandable. But most of us are just calm and used to it so we wait and see. Experience changed us all, as far as I can tell. I wouldn't expect anyone to see your viewpoint with anymore trust than we see McGinns scouts who are wrong so often. You're just a person. We don't worship you or think you're right about everything, no matter how stubborn you get about things. I tried once upon a time too. I'm not that special. I think there's a good chance you'll see how you're not that special over time too.

That’s great. I enjoy many of the posts I read here. Even some of yours. I really don’t care if people think I’m special or not. It does zero for me and I’m certainly not here for my health. My posts are no more annoying then some of your posts that go on and on with all this sunshine and rainbows talk. Yet I don’t I have a problem with it. Shaking my head and rolling my eyes is fun sometimes. That’s you and you should be allowed to be you. Why should I have to modify my feelings towards a certain post that I completely disagree with. I get “positive thinking” but it’s not like we’re in the Packers locker room and i’m destroying the vibe on game day. This is a forum and last time I checked a place for people to bring new ideas and debate them.

As I’ve already posted and stated “I’m not always right” but I am right a lot. Not because I’m Nostradamus or some 3 D Chess genius. I’m sure everyone is counting what I’m posting and will hold my feet to the fire if and when I am wrong. That’s fine if they do. I trust my research and my intuition. I also have no problem admitting when I’m wrong and won’t run and hide.

With these games I have little margin for error.

[Bretsky]

But it has kinda become the “land of OZ.” Don’t you get it? Where we ignore needs and blow picks and trade up to draft a QB that threw 17 interceptions last year at Utah State after reaching from Mars and taking Gary with the 12th pick of the last draft that also had serious production issues at Michigan.

Please tell Toto “That Were Not In KANSAS Anymore”




Honest Assessment here. I hated giving up a 1st and 4th for Jordan Love when I really felt we had needs to fill with pick 30 to get back to the big show.

I would encourage you to watch Jordan Love's full Junior Season. He was really good that year when he had some talent around him and a bit of coaching stability.

I don't mind Jordan Love at all; he's got the talent/ability. We just drafted him two years too soon.

And add in that we gave him up the pick that could have been used to move up in round two for a WR, and it's a double yuk in my book.

I certainly like the player more than Gary

[GB-Brandon]

Honest Assessment here. I hated giving up a 1st and 4th for Jordan Love when I really felt we had needs to fill with pick 30 to get back to the big show.

I would encourage you to watch Jordan Love's full Junior Season. He was really good that year when he had some talent around him and a bit of coaching stability.

I don't mind Jordan Love at all; he's got the talent/ability. We just drafted him two years too soon.

And add in that we gave him up the pick that could have been used to move up in round two for a WR, and it's a double yuk in my book.

I certainly like the player more than Gary

Ive watched everything I can on Love. I’ve put out pretty thorough posts on my concerns with him and what’s good as well. That’s not to say he won’t eventually be a good QB. I think he has some things to overcome but it is possible. It’s far from a slam dunk but LaFluer’s offense will help him. As I’ve also posted I’m not mad at Jordan Love at all about this.

Yes, it was two years early which takes me down the path I have posted. Three years down the road we could be so happy about this but right now it sucks and once again there is no guarantee in 2-3 years it’s gonna work out. On top of that we had an opportunity in our face RIGHT NOW. I do not believe Jordan Love is ready to be an NFL starter at this time either.

The bottom line is it’s next to impossible to spend 1858 draft points in two years and get next to zero production and legitimately compete with the best teams in the NFL. This league is so competitive today that you need to utilize every resource you have because it all tends to add up in the end. This doesn’t mean I’m not rooting for the Packers or don’t want the best but I would not feel safe at all taking them on the “OVER” at 9.5 wins as an example of lack of confidence.

I just see a lot of problems right now as far as keeping Pettine to WR to RT to DL to ILB to potentially the secondary with an injury or two. Any of these things can become a disaster and I can explain them all. I’m not certain today’s version of Rodgers will be able to overcome getting nothing right now from 1858 draft points over two years. We really needed some help. I don’t feel any better about this team then I did at seasons end and in some ways I feel worse..

[HarveyWallbangers]

This forum moved here after the journal sentinel message board went to shit. 2006.

I've been around all these people since before the Rodgers pick.

Nothing you're saying is unique. We've been here before. We're calm and used to this shit.

It's understandable. But most of us are just calm and used to it so we wait and see. Experience changed us all, as far as I can tell. I wouldn't expect anyone to see your viewpoint with anymore trust than we see McGinns scouts who are wrong so often. You're just a person. We don't worship you or think you're right about everything, no matter how stubborn you get about things. I tried once upon a time too. I'm not that special. I think there's a good chance you'll see how you're not that special over time too.

RG, the voice of reason. I remember playing Guitar Hero with Bretsky, Michele, Madtown, Superfan, and RG until 5-6 in the morning. Partial was passed out on the couch.

Shit, I've had two daughters and gotten a divorce--and I'm still here arguing with you dumbshits. I'm so old I remember when RG was a know it all and Bretsky was an optimistic realist.

[Bretsky]

RG, the voice of reason. I remember playing Guitar Hero with Bretsky, Michele, Madtown, Superfan, and RG until 5-6 in the morning. Partial was passed out on the couch.

Shit, I've had two daughters and gotten a divorce--and I'm still here arguing with you dumbshits. I'm so old I remember when RG was a know it all and Bretsky was an optimistic realist.



HA

Don 't forget the part about me kicking your @ss in WI Bowling....haha

[pbmax]

Maybe this puts it in better perspective. Based on points this is investment made.

Rashan Gary 12th Pick. = 1200pts
Jordan Love 30th, 136th = 658 pts

Total = 1858 draft pts.

= “On The Bench”

Totally Unacceptable.

If I was building a franchise I would quite possibly make this same point.

But its not how they (Wolf's Packer proteges) view the draft. Its sacrosanct to pick for the future, even to the present's detriment.

However, I made a point earlier that 2019 in retrospect might seem exactly like 2007. Except no one knows if Love can play and the Packers were increasingly sure Rodgers could.

So this might be 2005. Clearing the decks, one wackdoodle pick (Gary is going to get snaps one way or another so I don't think he's truly on the bench) and a 2-3 year window.

[falco]

RG, the voice of reason. I remember playing Guitar Hero with Bretsky, Michele, Madtown, Superfan, and RG until 5-6 in the morning. Partial was passed out on the couch.

Shit, I've had two daughters and gotten a divorce--and I'm still here arguing with you dumbshits. I'm so old I remember when RG was a know it all and Bretsky was an optimistic realist.

It's interesting the ties that bind forum members here...

- Joe once delivered my mail
- I ran into Esoxx at the Kwik Trip on Grand (across from the cemetery)
- My favorite - I was driving a deserted road in the middle of nowhere in NE Wisconsin and came up on Fosco's dad, needing a jump and miles from civilization

These were all circa 2005-2008 I think.

[pbmax]

It's interesting the ties that bind forum members here...

- Joe once delivered my mail
- I ran into Esoxx at the Kwik Trip on Grand (across from the cemetery)
- My favorite - I was driving a deserted road in the middle of nowhere in NE Wisconsin and came up on Fosco's dad, needing a jump and miles from civilization

These were all circa 2005-2008 I think.

Was he wearing a name badge that said "Hello, I am Fosco's Dad"?

[falco]

Was he wearing a name badge that said "Hello, I am Fosco's Dad"?

the exact story is lost to time, but I think his dad shared a story with me that Fosco similarly relayed months/years later in the forum; when I mentioned to him that I had picked his dad up he didn't believe it until he validated the story with him.

I can't imagine the odds...

[texaspackerbacker]

I stopped by a George Webb for a burger in Milwaukee, and in the Corner in the Back flipping burgers was this scruffy looking over-age Beavis & Butthead type guy ..... but no, it couldn't have been APB hahahahaha. It was almost closing time. I think he was gonna shut down the place.

[RashanGary]

PFF listed the top 8 defenses from a year ago. Packers 8th overall.

I do think they can crack top 5 with just a little bit of growth from the secondary as a talented, fast, now veteran unit. Also the growth of Gary and Keke solidifying the DL depth and shoring up the run defends just a couple ticks to move them into top 5 overall.

[RashanGary]

Darnell Savage 4.36
Alexander 4.38
King 4.43
Amos 4.56

The average 40 yard dash time of the whole starting secondary is 4.43.

That speed, experience and cohesiveness is going to make for a top 5 secondary!

[ThunderDan]

Darnell Savage 4.36
Alexander 4.38
King 4.43
Amos 4.56

The average 40 yard dash time of the whole starting secondary is 4.43.

That speed, experience and cohesiveness is going to make for a top 5 secondary!

And who stops the TE running crossing routes?

[RashanGary]

Raven Greene, Will Redmond and Chandon Sullivan have gotten some good experience with the defense too. Maybe not world beaters, but guys you can count on to run the defense at this point in their respective careers from those nickel and dime spots.

[Zool]

And who stops the TE running crossing routes?

Same guy that has been for 20+ years. No one.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I have hopes for Raven Greene.

[falco]

Same guy that has been for 20+ years. No one.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c5/a3/54/c5a3544da177ed8940d5fd7e535fadf9.gif

[run pMc]

^ LOL

[RashanGary]

Mike Daniels might be a decent pick up. Could eat some of Clark's NT snaps. He'd generate more knock back and interior pressure than Lowry on pass rush snaps at 5t.

Not a great positional fit for base, when you consider Clark is the clear starter at NT, but when you start thinking situational and rotation snaps, he makes a lot more sense. Shouldn't be too expensive. 5m maybe

[GB-Brandon]

If I was building a franchise I would quite possibly make this same point.

But its not how they (Wolf's Packer proteges) view the draft. Its sacrosanct to pick for the future, even to the present's detriment.

However, I made a point earlier that 2019 in retrospect might seem exactly like 2007. Except no one knows if Love can play and the Packers were increasingly sure Rodgers could.

So this might be 2005. Clearing the decks, one wackdoodle pick (Gary is going to get snaps one way or another so I don't think he's truly on the bench) and a 2-3 year window.

Yet it hasn’t been “Saving For The Future”. It looks more like a dog chasing it’s own tail. He went crazy and spent 155 million on Z.Smith, P. Smith and Amos alone. He even threw another 20 million at Dean Lowry. McCarthy got hung to dry which = Rashan Gary.

Let’s go to the NFC Champ Game guys and give everyone “Blue Balls.” Now let’s ramp up all the hype and “Slam On The Breaks” and reboot and trade up for a QB in the first round.

This dysfunction is exactly why we only have 1 Super Bowl in the Rodgers era.

[GB-Brandon]

Now it’s Rodgers turn to get “Hung Out To Dry”

“Bad News Gute!!!”

[falco]

I hate to be pedantic but your posts give me a headache.

[sharpe1027]

I hate to be pedantic but your posts give me a headache.

No worries. That's far from pedantic.

[GB-Brandon]

I hate to be pedantic but your posts give me a headache.

Just laying out facts. It confuses me why so many Packer fans get trapped into this “At Least It’s Not The 70’s and 80’s”. Yeah, there was some tough years there but it was a different time and place. At times the franchise was just trying to financially stay alive and the playing field financially was far from being equal across the league. I can understand operating then on certain principles. I can also understand some trauma and this “Save Up For A Rainy Day Procedure”

The problem is it’s 2020 and now there is TV revenue that’s equally shared across the league. Even the Jacksonville Jaguars are profitable. The field has been leveled. We don’t need to operate on this “Narrow Driven Level” of a few years down the road continuously. There building “Title Town district” out as far as the eye can see. The Kansas City Chiefs(Smaller Market) just won the Super Bowl. This excuse of we have to do it this way and play it safe is worn out. There just isn’t as much of an economic disadvantage anymore.

The question is would you give up a couple of those 10-6 seasons for a couple more Super Bowls over the last ten years? You know what my answer is.

[falco]

Nothing you said has anything to do with my comment.

[GB-Brandon]

Nothing you said has anything to do with my comment.

Well I guess we’re all walking around with headaches then.

[sharpe1027]

Just laying out facts.

No, you're not.

[Zool]

Just laying out facts.

You mean educated guesses.

[sharpe1027]

Well I guess we’re all walking around with headaches then.

Tiresome.

[sharpe1027]

The question is would you give up a couple of those 10-6 seasons for a couple more Super Bowls over the last ten years? You know what my answer is.

You should apply for a position with an NFL team. You're guaranteed to be running the place within a few short years with such meaningful insight. Nobody I know could offer such a guaranteed tradeoff. You must be so much smarter than us. You could be rich and famous with multiple Superbowl rings!

[Joemailman]

It just seems so unfair. What good are my mere opinions when Brandon has the facts? And how did this forum survive for 14 years without the facts?

[falco]

It just seems so unfair. What good are my mere opinions when Brandon has the facts? And how did this forum survive for 14 years without the facts?

We didn't have facts, but we at least could tell the difference between "they're," "their" and "there." And "than" vs "then." And when to use an apostrophe in "it's" and when not to.

In isolation, they weren't much, but when added together they made us bigger than the sum of our parts.

[Zool]

We didn't have facts, but we at least could tell the difference between "they're," "their" and "there." And "than" vs "then." And when to use an apostrophe in "it's" and when not to.

In isolation, they weren't much, but when added together they made us bigger than the sum of our parts.

My parts are just fine thank you very much. Perfectly adequate.

[falco]

My parts are just fine thank you very much. Perfectly adequate.

I guess you and Gutekunst are both content with mediocrity instead of greatness.

[Zool]

I guess you and Gutekunst are both content with mediocrity instead of greatness.

My wife seems to be also.

[RashanGary]

My wife seems to be also.

:lol:

Well, my ex wife was for a while. But I wore out my welcome with my insanity! Best thing that ever happened to me tho!

[GB-Brandon]

We didn't have facts, but we at least could tell the difference between "they're," "their" and "there." And "than" vs "then." And when to use an apostrophe in "it's" and when not to.

In isolation, they weren't much, but when added together they made us bigger than the sum of our parts.

Oh Great. The Grammar Police is coming out. Let’s resort to “Grammar.” :glug:

[falco]

Oh Great. The Grammar Police are coming out. Let’s resort to “Grammar.” :glug:

FIFY

[GB-Brandon]

You should apply for a position with an NFL team. You're guaranteed to be running the place within a few short years with such meaningful insight. Nobody I know could offer such a guaranteed tradeoff. You must be so much smarter than us. You could be rich and famous with multiple Superbowl rings!

Let’s see how it plays out. It has nothing to do with me wishing or hoping something is gonna happen. What’s gonna happen is gonna happen. It’s called “Probabilities.” We haven’t even gotten to camp yet. Right now I’ve expressed some concerns. Things could change a little here and there. It’s still early. We can re-visit these things later. I’m not gonna try and rub it in anyone’s face.

I never said anything about working for an NFL front office. And trust me, my views are shared by many other then me. I’m really not so unique in this as you kinda describe.

[bobblehead]

Gary needs to be beefed up and become a 5 tech DE. That’s our only hope with him. Clowney is a top 25 player in the whole league. Just a very rare and unique talent. He can defend run and disrupt and rush passer. Pettine would have the final piece to make it all work and potentially make the defense elite.

If I were inclined, I could name 25 I would rather have off the top of my head.

[bobblehead]

Maybe this puts it in better perspective. Based on points this is investment made.

Rashan Gary 12th Pick. = 1200pts
Jordan Love 30th, 136th = 658 pts

Total = 1858 draft pts.

= “On The Bench”

Totally Unacceptable.

In fairness Gary will get starter snaps this year. With Fackrell gone, and Gary/smith moving inside on pass, he will get 700 snaps this year. whether that is a good thing or not, I'm willing to concede, but he will not be "on the bench"

[GB-Brandon]

FIFY

When I’m using “MY PHONE ON THE GO” and making a reply sometimes my phone auto populates so please forgive me. I will start making announcements when I post from my home office that we can broadcast it if you’d like?

Would that adjust your comfort zone with my grammar?

[GB-Brandon]

If I were inclined, I could name 25 I would rather have off the top of my head.

He made that Seattle defense “somewhat serviceable” last year. He played hurt and still made a huge impact. He was a disrupter for them and his PFF grade falls in line with this. He is really good against the run. Didn’t get pushed against Niners like “our” guys did. I don’t care about the sack numbers. He was an issue for opposing teams. Not sure what more you want?

[GB-Brandon]

In fairness Gary will get starter snaps this year. With Fackrell gone, and Gary/smith moving inside on pass, he will get 700 snaps this year. whether that is a good thing or not, I'm willing to concede, but he will not be "on the bench"

We’re gonna see. Their definitely gonna rev up the engine. Let’s see if it drives.

[bobblehead]

He made that Seattle defense “somewhat serviceable” last year. He played hurt and still made a huge impact. He was a disrupter for them and his PFF grade falls in line with this. He is really good against the run. Didn’t get pushed against Niners like “our” guys did. I don’t care about the sack numbers. He was an issue for opposing teams. Not sure what more you want?

He's a player, just closer to top 50 than 25.

[GB-Brandon]

I “Love” all the debate but I’m not gonna continue to regurgitate my opinions and wear people out. I think I’ve made them more then clear. I’m gonna take a break until training camp and play in my garden and do some things. I will happily offer my opinion if anything big happens before camp and look forward to training camp and giving some insight if people would like.

Everyone please stay safe.

[GB-Brandon]

He's a player, just closer to top 50 than 25.

He could be the “Game Changer Move” this team needs with current roster. Might make up for offensive deficiencies. That’s where I stand.

[Zool]

I “Love” all the debate but I’m not gonna continue to regurgitate my opinions and wear people out. I think I’ve made them more then clear. I’m gonna take a break until training camp and play in my garden and do some things. I will happily offer my opinion if anything big happens before camp and look forward to training camp and giving some insight if people would like.

Would like. The part that tends to rub people the wrong way is not exclusive to you. It's hard on the internet to put down words as opinions without it coming across as concrete facts. It's a weird line. As RG pointed out, his posts a few years ago came across the same way. Its much easier face to face, but such is the beast that is Packer Rats. You win some, you lose some, you get called an asshole some. Welcome!

[GB-Brandon]

Would like. The part that tends to rub people the wrong way is not exclusive to you. It's hard on the internet to put down words as opinions without it coming across as concrete facts. It's a weird line. As RG pointed out, his posts a few years ago came across the same way. Its much easier face to face, but such is the beast that is Packer Rats. You win some, you lose some, you get called an asshole some. Welcome!

I would agree.

Thank You.

[pbmax]

Would like. The part that tends to rub people the wrong way is not exclusive to you. It's hard on the internet to put down words as opinions without it coming across as concrete facts. It's a weird line. As RG pointed out, his posts a few years ago came across the same way. Its much easier face to face, but such is the beast that is Packer Rats. You win some, you lose some, you get called an asshole some. Welcome!

That's why he changes his screen name every three years.

Poster Rashan Gary is reasonable if confused about perfume. But poster Greg Jennings was a blowhard.

[sharpe1027]

Let’s see how it plays out. It has nothing to do with me wishing or hoping something is gonna happen. What’s gonna happen is gonna happen. It’s called “Probabilities.” We haven’t even gotten to camp yet. Right now I’ve expressed some concerns. Things could change a little here and there. It’s still early. We can re-visit these things later. I’m not gonna try and rub it in anyone’s face.

I never said anything about working for an NFL front office. And trust me, my views are shared by many other then me. I’m really not so unique in this as you kinda describe.

Probabilities? I thought it was just facts?

[sharpe1027]

I never said anything about working for an NFL front office. And trust me, my views are shared by many other then me. I’m really not so unique in this as you kinda describe.

I see the sublety of my statement was lost. Let me be more clear. If you can guarantee a trade-off between multiple playoff runs and a Superbowl victory, you can be the GM of just about any franchise you want. Go for it. All you need are your facts!

[sharpe1027]

Would like. The part that tends to rub people the wrong way is not exclusive to you. It's hard on the internet to put down words as opinions without it coming across as concrete facts. It's a weird line. As RG pointed out, his posts a few years ago came across the same way. Its much easier face to face, but such is the beast that is Packer Rats. You win some, you lose some, you get called an asshole some. Welcome!

This is a much more reasonable position. I concede to being an asshole.

[Zool]

I concede to being an asshole.

Ditto

[falco]

This is a much more reasonable position. I concede to being an asshole.

I think the grammatically correct usage would be to say "I concede that I am an asshole."

Bunch of assholes in here.

[RashanGary]

That's why he changes his screen name every three years.

Poster Rashan Gary is reasonable if confused about perfume. But poster Greg Jennings was a blowhard.

I own it man, and regret it and feel pretty decent about the way I act now!

Brandon, don't pull a me and then have to be reminded of yourself. It's not the way to go. You can avoid that right now.

[sharpe1027]

I think the grammatically correct usage would be to say "I concede that I am an asshole."

Bunch of assholes in here.

Damnit. Thanks for making me think about high school English, asshole. I'm still not sure what's wrong with my sentence.

[pbmax]

I think the grammatically correct usage would be to say "I concede that I am an asshole."

Bunch of assholes in here.

I have a conference call early or I would spend a lot of time trying to get a prepositional phrase tacked onto the end of that statement.

[Fritz]

Damnit. Thanks for making me think about high school English, asshole. I'm still not sure what's wrong with my sentence.

Grammar lesson of the day - watch what happens when you remove just one little comma: "Thanks for making me think about high school English asshole."

We did have a hot little exchange student in our high school back in the day...

[Zool]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPk1hdMYRRM

Keep posting, assholes!

[Zool]

Grammar lesson of the day - watch what happens when you remove just one little comma: "Thanks for making me think about high school English asshole."

We did have a hot little exchange student in our high school back in the day...

Let's eat, grandma.
Let's eat grandma.

Or better yet the oxford comma

The strippers, JFK, and Nixon.
The strippers, JFK and Nixon.

[sharpe1027]

Let's eat, grandma.
Let's eat grandma.

Or better yet the oxford comma

The strippers, JFK, and Nixon.
The strippers, JFK and Nixon.

Oxford comma or bust.

[George Cumby]

I think the grammatically correct usage would be to say "I concede that I am an asshole."

Bunch of assholes in here.

Did someone say my name?

[sharpe1027]

Grammar lesson of the day - watch what happens when you remove just one little comma: "Thanks for making me think about high school English asshole."

We did have a hot little exchange student in our high school back in the day...

You should create a dedicated educational thread about English[,] asshole.

[GB-Brandon]

I own it man, and regret it and feel pretty decent about the way I act now!

Brandon, don't pull a me and then have to be reminded of yourself. It's not the way to go. You can avoid that right now.

I’m gonna be who I am. How about that?

I believe what I believe and dearly apologize if it doesn’t align with much of your “Hopium” rhetoric.

I’ve been through everything with this team. I was once part of the “In Ted I Trust” group and then “We’ll Get Them Next Year.” I attended the 2015 NFC Champ game and traveled to road games for a couple years. What I am expressing is years of disappointment. People can call everything a success and normally I would go along but with Aaron Rodgers as the QB I believe we fell short of the expected target. To continue to see the front office make the same mistakes is at the very least frustrating.

Sorry but you will have “To Find Fresh Faces And New People To Disappoint”

[sharpe1027]

I’m gonna be who I am. How about that?

I believe what I believe and dearly apologize if it doesn’t align with much of your “Hopium” rhetoric.

I’ve been through everything with this team. I was once part of the “In Ted I Trust” group and then “We’ll Get Them Next Year.” I attended the 2015 NFC Champ game and traveled to road games for a couple years. What I am expressing is years of disappointment. People can call everything a success and normally I would go along but with Aaron Rodgers as the QB I believe we fell short of the expected target. To continue to see the front office make the same mistakes is at the very least frustrating.

Sorry but you will have “To Find Fresh Faces And New People To Disappoint”
You seem to completely miss the point. Nobody thinks twice about someone having a particular belief here. Sure, someone will always disagree. People generally discuss and move on. There's a reason why you're getting some flack here, but it has little to do with your opinion about the Packers.

[pbmax]

Back to OP:

Jerry Gray



fter a 13-3 regular-season campaign and a trip to the NFC championship game, Green Bay Packers head coach Matt LaFleur made some changes on his coaching staff. Secondary coach Jason Simmons left to take a similar position in Carolina and LaFleur fired wide receivers coach Alvis Whitted in January.

In their places, LaFleur hired veteran coach Jerry Gray to take over the secondary and promoted Jason Vrable to coach the receivers. Vrable spent last year as an offensive assistant for the Packers and Gray had coached the Minnesota Vikings secondary for the last six seasons before being fired at the end of last year. A four-time Pro Bowl cornerback for the Rams, he served as defensive coordinator with the Buffalo Bills (2001-05) and the Tennessee Titans (2011-13).

Quarterbacks coach Luke Getsy also earned a promotion, adding passing game coordinator to his résumé. LaFleur also hired longtime college and NFL offensive line coach Butch Barry as a senior analyst.

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2020/05/29/green-bay-packers-coach-matt-lafleur-gushes-over-jerry-gray-hire/5267300002/

[texaspackerbacker]

I wonder if Simmons was behind the idea of almost never using zone pass defense and Gray might use it more. It seems like the Vikings used a lot of zone the past few seasons. I hope it's like that, and not Pettine himself being so damn stubborn, as it seems to me, our pass D could be a helluva better with more zone.

[pbmax]

Answer to OP: attrition

Davis Mattek @DavisMattek
Jones' Fractures are one of the worst injuries for a pro football player to get.

"50% of all players with a previous Jones fracture demonstrated incomplete healing."

Not great for Deebo Samuel.

nih study: https://t.co/IJ0sUhxOwy