Great analysis of pack future and 2020 draft by a writer I respect.

[Upnorth]

Bill barnwell

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29113276/2020-nfl-draft-surprises-why-did-packers-eagles-draft-quarterbacks-jordan-love-jalen-hurts

I only read about the packers, but it is a great summation of many things said on here.
I almost put this in rg's 2020 d improvement post as that is my biggest concern, but in the end figured this might spark better general discussion

[bobblehead]

So, in order:

1) "but this team is arguably the league's most likely to decline next season." No, not even close. The chiefs are most likely to decline. Anything other than a Owl is a decline. The packers are likely to decline because they won 13 games and went to the NFCC. But how about the 9ers who won 4 of the last 5 by a nose hair? (regular season)

2) ah, point differential. Yea, I get the argument, but how many TD's did we give up when we had a good sized lead? How many did we not score because we were killing the clock with a lead?

3) Fair point...we probably stole a V against the Maholmless chiefs. But I could nit pick every schedule and make a similar argument.

4) We were eerily lucky in the injury department....meh...I don't believe in luck, and so was SF. I also think losing Raven Greene really hurt our D.

5) I don't care that SF blew us out...we actually were one game away. You can say "doesn't count" all you want. What if we had played that first game in GB and gotten home field throughout. ifs and buts...but we WERE one game away. So saying yea, but were you really?? My answer is simple...yes, we were.

6) I simply love an argument that starts with the point "other than". As in other than Devante Rodgers has no one at WR. He has a true stud at WR. Its on him to use that to his advantage and elevate those around him and D. Other than AJones, he has no good RB. Other than the starting 5 he has a bad OL. duh! And don't even get me started about his best games being the ones D was watching from the sidelines.

So here is my conclusion. I really didn't want to draft a QB while ARod has 4 years left and intends to play them. Bad move, but every other point in this article is kinda foolish.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Well, it’s true that we weren’t really a 13-3 quality team and will likely regress, but the 10-6 Super Bowl champions proved that anything can happen in the playoffs.

Let’s not forget that Matt Moore played well replacing Mahomes. At KC, even without Mahomes, was no gimme. Just ask the Vikings.

We were lucky with injuries last year, but I think Greene was an underrated loss last year. He looked really good before getting hurt.

[pbmax]

Well, it’s true that we weren’t really a 13-3 quality team and will likely regress, but the 10-6 Super Bowl champions proved that anything can happen in the playoffs.

Let’s not forget that Matt Moore played well replacing Mahomes. At KC, even without Mahomes, was no gimme. Just ask the Vikings.

We were lucky with injuries last year, but I think Greene was an underrated loss last year. He looked really good before getting hurt.

Also Allison and MVS with injuries they played through.

[red]

florio andc peter king were talking about it the other day, and they quoted bob mcgiin

basically rodgers is changing everything at the line, and not running lefluers offense. lafluer is pissed because they practice his offense all week, only for a-rod to run his own thing in the game

they also quoted mcgiin that the relationship between coach and QB is over, and the coach wants a QB that will actually run the offense

this would go along with what a few of us have been saying for a few years. a rod is doing his own thing. thirst and 2, he audibles into a long pass. that could also be why we look so good at the beginning of games while we are running scripted plays, then seem to switch to the long ball approach and fizzle out

florio thinks this is rodgers last season in GB, and then they will trade or release him with the june 1st designation to spread out the cap hit

i'll try and fine the video

here it is


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFl1oAlhOdU

[red]

the video also talks towards the end about how the organization has completely ignored the WR position lately and just relied on rodgers to do everything

[mraynrand]

Bill barnwell

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29113276/2020-nfl-draft-surprises-why-did-packers-eagles-draft-quarterbacks-jordan-love-jalen-hurts

I only read about the packers, but it is a great summation of many things said on here.
I almost put this in rg's 2020 d improvement post as that is my biggest concern, but in the end figured this might spark better general discussion

Good find but I trust Bill Brasky more. To Bill Brasky!!

[Bretsky]

Good find but I trust Bill Brasky more. To Bill Brasky!!

Screw Brasky
Trust Bretsky :)

[Joemailman]

Well, it’s true that we weren’t really a 13-3 quality team and will likely regress, but the 10-6 Super Bowl champions proved that anything can happen in the playoffs.

Let’s not forget that Matt Moore played well replacing Mahomes. At KC, even without Mahomes, was no gimme. Just ask the Vikings.

We were lucky with injuries last year, but I think Greene was an underrated loss last year. He looked really good before getting hurt.

Packers should also get some credit for going 4-0 without their best offensive player, Davante Adams in the lineup. This included road wins at Dallas and Kansas City. Rodgers had his 2 best games of the season against Oakland and Kansas City during that stretch.

[mraynrand]

Screw Brasky
Trust Bretsky :)
lol

[mraynrand]

Packers should also get some credit for going 4-0 without their best offensive player, Davante Adams in the lineup. This included road wins at Dallas and Kansas City. Rodgers had his 2 best games of the season against Oakland and Kansas City during that stretch.

Flower Power!

[texaspackerbacker]

Bill barnwell

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29113276/2020-nfl-draft-surprises-why-did-packers-eagles-draft-quarterbacks-jordan-love-jalen-hurts

I only read about the packers, but it is a great summation of many things said on here.
I almost put this in rg's 2020 d improvement post as that is my biggest concern, but in the end figured this might spark better general discussion

If you respect the guy, fine, but I absolutely have a lower than snakeshit opinion of most of what he wrote.

I could have stopped reading when the guy said the Packers were the tenth best team in the league, but I slogged through to the end, and it became more and more apparent that he is just another outsider who doesn't have a clue about the Packers.

[Bretsky]

It was a good article; it's crazy we went 13 and 3 with that small of a point differential

[Joemailman]

It was a good article; it's crazy we went 13 and 3 with that small of a point differential

It is. Packers did the things you have to do to win close games. Usually won the turnover battle, and were good in the red zone both on offense and defense. I'm definitely in the camp of those who say Packers could be better this year and not win as many games.

[Bretsky]

It is. Packers did the things you have to do to win close games. Usually won the turnover battle, and were good in the red zone both on offense and defense. I'm definitely in the camp of those who say Packers could be better this year and not win as many games.


i would never embrace that we were the worst 13 and 3 team ever

But I also think talent wise we weren't a 13 and 3 team and I don't expect to be there next year either.

Rodgers will get us to slip into the playoffs

[call_me_ishmael]

Are there any other extremely overpriced playres with a year or two left on a prohibitive deal from a team that lacks a QB? I highly doubt they just cut ARod, but I could see them taking on a short term contract and picks to make it work after this season.

[George Cumby]

Re: Reds post. If the salient point is accurate, and Rodgers is free wheeling it and putting himself above the Team, it’s 2003-8 all over again.

So what does the organization do?

[mraynrand]

Re: Reds post. If the salient point is accurate, and Rodgers is free wheeling it and putting himself above the Team, it’s 2003-8 all over again.

So what does the organization do?

Draft a QB.

[George Cumby]

Draft a QB.

I was thinking of boxing up his locker, but that works, too.

[mraynrand]

I was thinking of boxing up his locker, but that works, too.

That comes later, after appearing on ‘Greta’

You know the timeline. Embrace it.

[pbmax]

florio andc peter king were talking about it the other day, and they quoted bob mcgiin

basically rodgers is changing everything at the line, and not running lefluers offense. lafluer is pissed because they practice his offense all week, only for a-rod to run his own thing in the game

they also quoted mcgiin that the relationship between coach and QB is over, and the coach wants a QB that will actually run the offense

this would go along with what a few of us have been saying for a few years. a rod is doing his own thing. thirst and 2, he audibles into a long pass. that could also be why we look so good at the beginning of games while we are running scripted plays, then seem to switch to the long ball approach and fizzle out

florio thinks this is rodgers last season in GB, and then they will trade or release him with the june 1st designation to spread out the cap hit

i'll try and fine the video

here it is



1. If you are Gute, do you trust Rodgers or LaFleur more? LaFleur wasn't your pick, it was Murphy's. Gute was ready for second interviews. Gute is worried about his own behind, the coach doesn't report to him. Gute drafted Love so he could have a shot at another Rodgers and therefore job security. LaFleur getting by is a side effect.

2. Demovsky reported reasonable speculation that the third round pick was a sop to LaFleur after taking a player who would not contribute to his success coaching in the next year. LaFleur knows the kids coach.

3. Mike Sherman wasn't happy with first rounder Rodgers because he'd run his offense. A coach wants to win to keep his job. Rodgers didn't help that. Same thing with Love.

4. Everyone looks at Rodgers deal and thinks 1-3 years max. You can say the same about the coach.

5. Not the first Wolf family tree draft that did not address a need.

6. There is no guarantee Love helps the situation.

7. McGinn has no sources left. He is guessing, and therefore so are King and Florio.

8. I would LOVE to hear Bob explain in detail how he knows Rodgers is changing the play to one not practiced when we already know LaFleur is handing Rodgers an alternate play every time out on the field.

9. If you want an explanation for the RB and TE in the second and third round, that last phrase in #8 is a good on to focus on. Having defenses threatened by your run/pass options is th entire goal of this offense. It doesn't take Love to deliver that. It takes players who are a threat downfield and could also throw a block.

[pbmax]

If you respect the guy, fine, but I absolutely have a lower than snakeshit opinion of most of what he wrote.

I could have stopped reading when the guy said the Packers were the tenth best team in the league, but I slogged through to the end, and it became more and more apparent that he is just another outsider who doesn't have a clue about the Packers.

I don't think 10th best is too far off the mark. They had a new coach, new offense new film advantage PLUS the defense got major upgrades and changes. That is an advantage to every new regime.

The offense and defense had obvious flaws but played well and both sides of the ball were well coordinated. The defense was designed to protect a lead.

But after two down years and some desultory drafts, if you can be Top 10 and be trending up, that speaks pretty well of the organization's plan.

[Bretsky]

I don't think 10th best is too far off the mark. They had a new coach, new offense new film advantage PLUS the defense got major upgrades and changes. That is an advantage to every new regime.

The offense and defense had obvious flaws but played well and both sides of the ball were well coordinated. The defense was designed to protect a lead.

But after two down years and some desultory drafts, if you can be Top 10 and be trending up, that speaks pretty well of the organization's plan.



I would guess the 10th best team is around where we are at now as well....if that

[pbmax]

I would guess the 10th best team is around where we are at now as well....if that

Considering the previous two years were 6-9-1 and 7-9, I am not sure what else you'd expect.

They needed an infusion of talent on D and skill position players on O and probably some new ideas on both sides of the ball. They got most of those except WR. Which is why, record of 13-3 not-withstanding, I expect they are trending up for a bit.

There are still question marks:

1. Pettine's first two years not as good as Capers first two years which is a little worrying
2. If Rodgers is in steep decline, then its mostly on Love to rectify the situation which is worrying
3. LaFleur's offense is a definite work in progress. Can he and Rodgers get more out of most of the same characters as last year? Can The Flower Power guru actually develop a QB?
4. They still need talent or at least someone to break out of the pedestrian lane on offense. Gute's WR haul looks kinda pathetic at this point.

[beveaux1]

Considering the previous two years were 6-9-1 and 7-9, I am not sure what else you'd expect.

They needed an infusion of talent on D and skill position players on O and probably some new ideas on both sides of the ball. They got most of those except WR. Which is why, record of 13-3 not-withstanding, I expect they are trending up for a bit.

There are still question marks:

1. Pettine's first two years not as good as Capers first two years which is a little worrying
2. If Rodgers is in steep decline, then its mostly on Love to rectify the situation which is worrying
3. LaFleur's offense is a definite work in progress. Can he and Rodgers get more out of most of the same characters as last year? Can The Flower Power guru actually develop a QB?
4. They still need talent or at least someone to break out of the pedestrian lane on offense. Gute's WR haul looks kinda pathetic at this point.

1. I agree
2 and 3. He doesn't have to be a guru. That offense is designed around a young, mobile QB with, usually no more than 2 reads on pass plays. It's run based with play action options and much easier for a young QB to get up to speed.
4. Running game this year, WRs next year.

[Bretsky]

1. If you are Gute, do you trust Rodgers or LaFleur more? LaFleur wasn't your pick, it was Murphy's. Gute was ready for second interviews. Gute is worried about his own behind, the coach doesn't report to him. Gute drafted Love so he could have a shot at another Rodgers and therefore job security. LaFleur getting by is a side effect.

2. Demovsky reported reasonable speculation that the third round pick was a sop to LaFleur after taking a player who would not contribute to his success coaching in the next year. LaFleur knows the kids coach.

.


DUDE< there are MULTIPLE THREAD TOPICS WITHIN THIS AWESOME POST !!!!

Regarding #1, early ratings are high on LaFleur but I think the sensible fans know a lot of things fell our way last year. I'm a fan, but to me his hire is undoubtedly TBD still. I'm not a Marcia Marcia Marcia fan at all.

I always wondered WHY GB hired the top coaching candidate, IMO, and the top OC in the NFL.............and INSTANTLY.......it was reported he wasn't getting hired. And the report was quiet with no real explanation from either side other than Hoody Genius Jr was no longer under consideration. WHY.........I never hear any credible theories on this........UNTIL.........GB Brandon, who is obviously a fanatical GB Packer fan and lives in the area, noted how it's thought in GB that he immediately pulled himself from consideration because the new coach basically needed to retain Pettine. Whether that is good or bad, these coaches have their inner circles and most candidates are not going to want to be bullied into brining a coordinator on. When Flower was hired, reports came out that in his interview he brought out a list of his top DC Candidates and Pettine was one.....so adding 1 PLUS 1 I have to ponder......how much of a consideration was it to getting the guy hired ?

Regarding the report about giving the #3 to the coach, if trued, again....a good topic in itself,......that is VERY concerning at best and dysfuncational at worse. I'd say WTF to that one.

I don't buy McGinn has not sources for a second, and Peter King IMO has a bunch of sources. I do agree that I'd love to know how McGinn knows AROD is changing plays though.

[Bretsky]

Considering the previous two years were 6-9-1 and 7-9, I am not sure what else you'd expect.

They needed an infusion of talent on D and skill position players on O and probably some new ideas on both sides of the ball. They got most of those except WR. Which is why, record of 13-3 not-withstanding, I expect they are trending up for a bit.

There are still question marks:

1. Pettine's first two years not as good as Capers first two years which is a little worrying
2. If Rodgers is in steep decline, then its mostly on Love to rectify the situation which is worrying
3. LaFleur's offense is a definite work in progress. Can he and Rodgers get more out of most of the same characters as last year? Can The Flower Power guru actually develop a QB?
4. They still need talent or at least someone to break out of the pedestrian lane on offense. Gute's WR haul looks kinda pathetic at this point.



I was expecting to be flamed for noting GB is around the 10th best team in the NFL. That might be too gracious. In the NFC somewhere in the 4-7 range; those teams seem about the same to me. My bias is in the latter area; had we improved ourselves more in the draft I think I'd rate us i the 3-4 area in the NFC.

I'd use words stronger than pathetic but you are way nicer than I am :)))

[pbmax]

1. I agree
2 and 3. He doesn't have to be a guru. That offense is designed around a young, mobile QB with, usually no more than 2 reads on pass plays. It's run based with play action options and much easier for a young QB to get up to speed.
4. Running game this year, WRs next year.

My concern about 3 (and therefore spills into 2) is that I am not certain this offensive line blocks good enough for the outside zone to be successful.

I have no film or tape to point to, only that my sense was that defenses still defer to Rodgers and not Jones. Teams did not have huge difficulty stopping Jamaal Williams runs.

A mobile blocker with the rookie TE, a good all around TE in Stormbringer and the new back might help this. But I was generally not too impressed with the zone run blocking next year.

[Joemailman]

DUDE< there are MULTIPLE THREAD TOPICS WITHIN THIS AWESOME POST !!!!

Regarding #1, early ratings are high on LaFleur but I think the sensible fans know a lot of things fell our way last year. I'm a fan, but to me his hire is undoubtedly TBD still. I'm not a Marcia Marcia Marcia fan at all.

I always wondered WHY GB hired the top coaching candidate, IMO, and the top OC in the NFL.............and INSTANTLY.......it was reported he wasn't getting hired. And the report was quiet with no real explanation from either side other than Hoody Genius Jr was no longer under consideration. WHY.........I never hear any credible theories on this........UNTIL.........GB Brandon, who is obviously a fanatical GB Packer fan and lives in the area, noted how it's thought in GB that he immediately pulled himself from consideration because the new coach basically needed to retain Pettine. Whether that is good or bad, these coaches have their inner circles and most candidates are not going to want to be bullied into brining a coordinator on. When Flower was hired, reports came out that in his interview he brought out a list of his top DC Candidates and Pettine was one.....so adding 1 PLUS 1 I have to ponder......how much of a consideration was it to getting the guy hired ?

Regarding the report about giving the #3 to the coach, if trued, again....a good topic in itself,......that is VERY concerning at best and dysfuncational at worse. I'd say WTF to that one.

I don't buy McGinn has not sources for a second, and Peter King IMO has a bunch of sources. I do agree that I'd love to know how McGinn knows AROD is changing plays though.

Maybe they interviewed McDaniels and decided that like every other team in the NFL, they didn't want him coaching their team. It was the only known interview that McDaniels received in a year when 8 new coaches were hired. Maybe he's not as sought after for head coach as you think he is.

[red]

1. If you are Gute, do you trust Rodgers or LaFleur more? LaFleur wasn't your pick, it was Murphy's. Gute was ready for second interviews. Gute is worried about his own behind, the coach doesn't report to him. Gute drafted Love so he could have a shot at another Rodgers and therefore job security. LaFleur getting by is a side effect.

2. Demovsky reported reasonable speculation that the third round pick was a sop to LaFleur after taking a player who would not contribute to his success coaching in the next year. LaFleur knows the kids coach.

3. Mike Sherman wasn't happy with first rounder Rodgers because he'd run his offense. A coach wants to win to keep his job. Rodgers didn't help that. Same thing with Love.

4. Everyone looks at Rodgers deal and thinks 1-3 years max. You can say the same about the coach.

5. Not the first Wolf family tree draft that did not address a need.

6. There is no guarantee Love helps the situation.

7. McGinn has no sources left. He is guessing, and therefore so are King and Florio.

8. I would LOVE to hear Bob explain in detail how he knows Rodgers is changing the play to one not practiced when we already know LaFleur is handing Rodgers an alternate play every time out on the field.

9. If you want an explanation for the RB and TE in the second and third round, that last phrase in #8 is a good on to focus on. Having defenses threatened by your run/pass options is th entire goal of this offense. It doesn't take Love to deliver that. It takes players who are a threat downfield and could also throw a block.


It’s no secret that arid changes the plays all the time. How else can you explain how the fat mike offense changed so much in later years, and how the offense last year looked just like the later McCarthy offense when it was stuttering?

How else can you explain the constant delay of games and wasted time outs because the play clock is running down, over 2 separate regimes?

I don’t think for a second there is any doubt that a rod is calling the shots. The question is just how many

And it’s not just McGinn, king came to his own conclusion about a rod changing all the plays for what he’s seen and heard. It just happens to coincide with what mcginn is hearing. Sims also talked about how Rodgers is running his own plays

[run pMc]

I thought King posed a good question: How many plays did Arod change last year?

I think it's reasonable to think that MLF gave ARod a lot of rope last year as a rookie coach inheriting a future HOF QB, but would want to rein that in more this year. McGinn might have been a good beat writer (he was) and still have contacts in the league, but I'd bet he's not well plugged into the Lambeau offices anymore... he seemed to have gotten brushed aside during the TT era and it made him angry. Doesn't seem like that's changed with Gute, and the paragraph they were referring to in the video was McGinn's speculation, not quoted or from a direct source.
Sure, where there's smoke there's fire, but it's fair to wonder how much of the smoke McGinn is creating himself.
It's just gossip.

As for getting flamed for calling GB the 10th best, I don't get it. They benefited from a lot of things last year, and IMO far exceeded expectations with a 13 win season, #2 seed and NFCC appearance. For a rookie coach brought in off a losing season, that's unheard of. I'd think regression to the mean will happen, and put them closer to a 10 win season if their most important players stay healthy.

[Bretsky]

Maybe they interviewed McDaniels and decided that like every other team in the NFL, they didn't want him coaching their team. It was the only known interview that McDaniels received in a year when 8 new coaches were hired. Maybe he's not as sought after for head coach as you think he is.



Or maybe, as discussed on ESPN he didn't want any bad jobs because he's the successor in NE but GB appealed to him.

[Bretsky]

Maybe they interviewed McDaniels and decided that like every other team in the NFL, they didn't want him coaching their team. It was the only known interview that McDaniels received in a year when 8 new coaches were hired. Maybe he's not as sought after for head coach as you think he is.

And maybe Marcia wanted a coach he felt he could control with the DC; probably more evidence to suggest this than your above point.

[Zool]

Or maybe, as discussed on ESPN he didn't want any bad jobs because he's the successor in NE but GB appealed to him.

He did so well in Denver, or what that someone else’s fault too?

[Bretsky]

He did so well in Denver, or what that someone else’s fault too?

well that's an ignorant comment.

have any coaches not had success round one only to be successful round two ?


A better way to look at it could be coaches can learn from each experience.

Think Hoody Genius learned from Cleveland ?

[GB-Brandon]

From everything I heard and have read McDaniels was only interested in the GB job and mostly only
because of Aaron Rodgers along with draft picks and salary cap situation at that time. He was the “lead candidate” from the fans, media etc etc and then a guy named Mark Murphy got involved.

I don’t think this town was big enough for the both of them. Lol

[GB-Brandon]

As far as “Aaron Regressing”, it’s all too predictable and some predicted this would be the talk last offseason with Gute’s lackluster approach to building the offense efficiently and acquiring some top level talent. Gute jettisoned Rodgers favorite target(Jordy) and then McCarthy got hung out to dry and now the narrative is “Aaron’s Regressing.” This is gonna continue as Gute did next to nothing for 3 years in a row failing to re-stock the shelves of playmakers on offense.

If “Gute The Fraud” spent as much time getting Rodgers weapons as he has giving up resources for his potential replacement(Kizer, Love) we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.

[call_me_ishmael]

He did so well in Denver, or what that someone else’s fault too?

Couldn't you say the same thing about BB in Cleveland, though, or Saban at Michigan State?

[Zool]

Couldn't you say the same thing about BB in Cleveland, though, or Saban at Michigan State?

I'll reply to you and Bretsky at the same time. Did both of those guys go back to being a coordinator for 8-10 years waiting for the "right job"? If he was such a savant, wouldn't someone have thrown enough money at him by now? Wouldn't the SF job have been the "right job"?

Eventually a guy is what he is.

[Upnorth]

As far as “Aaron Regressing”, it’s all too predictable and some predicted this would be the talk last offseason with Gute’s lackluster approach to building the offense efficiently and acquiring some top level talent. Gute jettisoned Rodgers favorite target(Jordy) and then McCarthy got hung out to dry and now the narrative is “Aaron’s Regressing.” This is gonna continue as Gute did next to nothing for 3 years in a row failing to re-stock the shelves of playmakers on offense.

If “Gute The Fraud” spent as much time getting Rodgers weapons as he has giving up resources for his potential replacement(Kizer, Love) we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.

re Kiser, so they should have traded randle for a wr?

[GB-Brandon]

re Kiser, so they should have traded randle for a wr?

They should of “allocated resources” responsibly and made a better effort to bolster the WR position. My point is they have allocated more premium resources to Rodgers replacement or back up then getting AR12 competent weapons under Gute which IMO is inexcusable.

I question the vision and direction.

[pbmax]

It’s no secret that arid changes the plays all the time. How else can you explain how the fat mike offense changed so much in later years, and how the offense last year looked just like the later McCarthy offense when it was stuttering?

How else can you explain the constant delay of games and wasted time outs because the play clock is running down, over 2 separate regimes?

I don’t think for a second there is any doubt that a rod is calling the shots. The question is just how many

And it’s not just McGinn, king came to his own conclusion about a rod changing all the plays for what he’s seen and heard. It just happens to coincide with what mcginn is hearing. Sims also talked about how Rodgers is running his own plays

He absolutely was changing a lot of plays under McCarthy. The evidence became plain when they agrees to run a modified script for the first first fifteen/twenty plays with plays both liked. Worked like a charm.

Then it went to hell in a handbasket after that. Think that was 2018.

And LaFleur said he gave Rodgers total control. But again I ask, what is your evidence that he is changing the same number of plays? Those early down runs weren't his plays. They ran on first down more than most other teams.

If LaFleur gives him at least one option per play, where is the evidence of what he is changing it to? There is little. The number of blown timeouts last year was down if I am not mistaken. They, surprisingly, often had timeouts left at the half.

They played four games in which they couldn't run the EO. That alone argues for him changing less plays.

[Zool]

Should have allocated......my goodness

[pbmax]

I'll reply to you and Bretsky at the same time. Did both of those guys go back to being a coordinator for 8-10 years waiting for the "right job"? If he was such a savant, wouldn't someone have thrown enough money at him by now? Wouldn't the SF job have been the "right job"?

Eventually a guy is what he is.

Belichick had a new HC gig within 5 years I believe. So I agree. But we won't know until he gets a gig.

[GB-Brandon]

Should have allocated......my goodness

Yes, and now we’re sitting around talking about “Audibles”. It’s like let’s point to anything other then the obvious. :bang:

[Zool]

Yes, and now we’re sitting around talking about “Audibles”. It’s like let’s point to anything other then the obvious. :bang:

I guess I thought I was pointing out something obvious?

Hey just so you know, I didn't like the draft. I advocated trading up for a WR in March. I got my ass kicked. I also thought drafting 256 o-lineman was dumb.

You know what else, no matter how much I might want something to be different, it won't be. I choose to not let it ruin my life or monopolize my thoughts.

[mraynrand]

You know what else, no matter how much I might want something to be different, it won't be. I choose to not let it ruin my life or monopolize my thoughts.

If you were a real fan you would ruminate on it until it destroyed you.

[mraynrand]

Should have allocated......my goodness

I'm beginning to be torn. Should I hope Funchess is a beast so the Packers dominate, or hope he sucks because the whiners don't deserve the victories? Hmm...I'll take the beast and the 'I told you sos'

[pbmax]

I'm beginning to be torn. Should I hope Funchess is a beast so the Packers dominate, or hope he sucks because the whiners don't deserve the victories? Hmm...I'll take the beast and the 'I told you sos'

Oh, I'm rooting for wins, being wrong and charges of hypocrisy all the way.

[GB-Brandon]

I guess I thought I was pointing out something obvious?

Hey just so you know, I didn't like the draft. I advocated trading up for a WR in March. I got my ass kicked. I also thought drafting 256 o-lineman was dumb.

You know what else, no matter how much I might want something to be different, it won't be. I choose to not let it ruin my life or monopolize my thoughts.

First of all, “This Isn’t ruining my Life.” I’m being much more disrupted with this current pandemic then “The Failing Moves Of The Green Bay Packers” By Brian Gutekunst.

With that said I’m hoping for a training camp and planning to attend if there is one. I have family on hold from coming here for our yearly Packer Family Night Tradition. I would like nothing more then to report “Great Things” and have a better understanding of why they did what they did while washing down some Grey Goose. It would be amazing to see all our receivers going from zeros to hero’s. As posted I have some serious concerns regarding all of this.

Overall, Keeping my expectations in check is an important thing when following the Green Bay Packers.

[mraynrand]

Oh, I'm rooting for wins, being wrong and charges of hypocrisy all the way.

You're not a whiner. Not even close.

[Zool]

I'm beginning to be torn. Should I hope Funchess is a beast so the Packers dominate, or hope he sucks because the whiners don't deserve the victories? Hmm...I'll take the beast and the 'I told you sos'

Et Tu Rand? I should "of" known better.

[GB-Brandon]

Now being at the 2015 NFC Champ Game “Ruined My Life” temporally.

This is nothing. Damage has already been done.

[mraynrand]

Et Tu Rand? I should "of" known better.

Lay off, I am busy allocating resources over here.

[mraynrand]

being at the 2015 NFC Champ Game “Ruined My Life” temporally.

Arguably the worst moment in Packer playoff history. Being there, with the promise of victory over the hated Pete Carrol, and having in stripped away...too much pain.

[ThunderDan]

Arguably the worst moment in Packer playoff history. Being there, with the promise of victory over the hated Pete Carrol, and having in stripped away...too much pain.

Another great Packer/Seahag game is being replayed on ESPN tonight, the Fail Mary game.

[GB-Brandon]

Another great Packer/Seahag game is being replayed on ESPN tonight, the Fail Mary game.

Oh the Joy. I was at that game too. Lived in Seattle during those years. That’s the one where my son and I got trampled by the 12th Goon.

And people wonder why I hate the Seahawks more then the Bears or Vikings.

[GB-Brandon]

Arguably the worst moment in Packer playoff history. Being there, with the promise of victory over the hated Pete Carrol, and having in stripped away...too much pain.

Yep, sold everything and moved!!!!

[Upnorth]

As if we arent in enough turmoil. They you bring up THAT game....:sad:

[RashanGary]

If you were a real fan you would ruminate on it until it destroyed you.

:lol:

[George Cumby]

If you were a real fan you would ruminate on it until it destroyed you.

I was thinking about this the other day.

"Fan" is short for "fanatic".

A fanatic, according to MW definition 2 is: "marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion"

So for those of us who aren't "fanatics", what are we?

Whats the term, slang or otherwise, for someone who is moderately enthusiastic but doesn't get too worked up one way or the other?

Help me out, Packerrats.

[Upnorth]

I don't think we have any fanatics here by this definition. Intense UNCRITICAL devotion. We are much better at intense CRITICAL devotion, some more than othera.

[yetisnowman]

Tex is definitely 100% a Rodgers fanatic. No one else qualifies as the textbook definition.

[pbmax]

Another great Packer/Seahag game is being replayed on ESPN tonight, the Fail Mary game.

No chance I am watching that travesty.

[pbmax]

Hypervigilant critical devotion is where I come down.

[pbmax]

Now this is where things could get interesting: https://twitter.com/KenIngalls/status/1257400285485510659

Ken Ingalls - Packers Cap @KenIngalls
SUPER EARLY 2021 Packers salary cap looks roughGrimacing face

Memo54 Contracted Players (15 UDFAs)
Money bag Current Cap Space: $15.3M

No entry signThis is without Free Agents Bahktiari, Clark, Linsley, King, Jones, Williams.

Keycap digit five The top 5 players (Rodgers, Smith x2, Adams, & Amos) cost $100M in salary cap.

IF IT STAYS THIS WAY, I EXPECT SOMETHING TO HAPPEN TO AMOS. NOT SURE HE'S WORTH TOP 5 ON TEAM DEAL


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXMtnDDX0AgB5WW?format=png&name=small

[texaspackerbacker]

Tex is definitely 100% a Rodgers fanatic. No one else qualifies as the textbook definition.

No one else in here maybe, but a large majority of Packer fans have that kind of common sense.

[texaspackerbacker]

I was thinking about this the other day.

"Fan" is short for "fanatic".

A fanatic, according to MW definition 2 is: "marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion"

So for those of us who aren't "fanatics", what are we?

Whats the term, slang or otherwise, for someone who is moderately enthusiastic but doesn't get too worked up one way or the other?

Help me out, Packerrats.

hahahaha Label thyself.

What I've observed in here is that most claiming to be fans care more about making snide negative remarks than they do for the team, and in the weird name of realism or whatever, are too timid (I used to say don't have the balls) to be homers.

Any exceptions, step forward and identify yourselves.

[run pMc]

Keycap digit five The top 5 players (Rodgers, Smith x2, Adams, & Amos) cost $100M in salary cap.

IF IT STAYS THIS WAY, I EXPECT SOMETHING TO HAPPEN TO AMOS. NOT SURE HE'S WORTH TOP 5 ON TEAM DEAL

If possible, I'd try to extend Adams for 2-3 more seasons and see if that would bring any cap relief. Amos could very well be a casualty if they can bring another safety along. I wonder if the cap will go up, and if so by how much. I don't think Gary will replace either Smith next year unless he really shows a big jump in him play. Of the FA's (Bahktiari, Clark, Linsley, King, Jones, Williams) I'm guessing Bahk and Clark are the highest priorities, with Jones coming in at #3. Linsley, Williams, King are probably not re-signed (although Jamaal could be brought back on the cheap).

Of course this means they extend Jones and let Bahk walk in favor of bringing back Marshall Newhouse.

[Rastak]

If possible, I'd try to extend Adams for 2-3 more seasons and see if that would bring any cap relief. Amos could very well be a casualty if they can bring another safety along. I wonder if the cap will go up, and if so by how much. I don't think Gary will replace either Smith next year unless he really shows a big jump in him play. Of the FA's (Bahktiari, Clark, Linsley, King, Jones, Williams) I'm guessing Bahk and Clark are the highest priorities, with Jones coming in at #3. Linsley, Williams, King are probably not re-signed (although Jamaal could be brought back on the cheap).

Of course this means they extend Jones and let Bahk walk in favor of bringing back Marshall Newhouse.


It's based on revenue so I am expecting it to go down which will likely sting both Minnesota and Green Bay.

[texaspackerbacker]

Now this is where things could get interesting: https://twitter.com/KenIngalls/status/1257400285485510659

Ken Ingalls - Packers Cap @KenIngalls
SUPER EARLY 2021 Packers salary cap looks roughGrimacing face

Memo54 Contracted Players (15 UDFAs)
Money bag Current Cap Space: $15.3M

No entry signThis is without Free Agents Bahktiari, Clark, Linsley, King, Jones, Williams.

Keycap digit five The top 5 players (Rodgers, Smith x2, Adams, & Amos) cost $100M in salary cap.

IF IT STAYS THIS WAY, I EXPECT SOMETHING TO HAPPEN TO AMOS. NOT SURE HE'S WORTH TOP 5 ON TEAM DEAL


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXMtnDDX0AgB5WW?format=png&name=small

Seems like a little bit of apples and oranges going on here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you talking about the 2021 situation using 2020 cap figures? True, Clark, Jones, Linsley, Bakhtiari, and King will be expensive to re-sign, but the salary cap has gone up by $55 million over the last 5 seasons. We can probably count on at least $11 million more next season. If you add that to the $15.3 million leftover now and figure in the roughly $25 million those guys are counting now, signing as many of them as we want should be well within reason.

[red]

Now this is where things could get interesting: https://twitter.com/KenIngalls/status/1257400285485510659

Ken Ingalls - Packers Cap @KenIngalls
SUPER EARLY 2021 Packers salary cap looks roughGrimacing face

Memo54 Contracted Players (15 UDFAs)
Money bag Current Cap Space: $15.3M

No entry signThis is without Free Agents Bahktiari, Clark, Linsley, King, Jones, Williams.

Keycap digit five The top 5 players (Rodgers, Smith x2, Adams, & Amos) cost $100M in salary cap.

IF IT STAYS THIS WAY, I EXPECT SOMETHING TO HAPPEN TO AMOS. NOT SURE HE'S WORTH TOP 5 ON TEAM DEAL


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXMtnDDX0AgB5WW?format=png&name=small

thats a lot of money to just sit on for reserves

especially when all the big name players signing big contracts are usually gone by the time the season starts

most players you sign during the season are minimum wage guys who are gonna be replacing other minimum wage guys

we're also sitting on about 11 million in free cap this year. but they were nice enough to say we have zero rollover

i call complete BS on those guys

fudge some numbers to get some clicks

[Smidgeon]

Now this is where things could get interesting: https://twitter.com/KenIngalls/status/1257400285485510659

Ken Ingalls - Packers Cap @KenIngalls
SUPER EARLY 2021 Packers salary cap looks roughGrimacing face

Memo54 Contracted Players (15 UDFAs)
Money bag Current Cap Space: $15.3M

No entry signThis is without Free Agents Bahktiari, Clark, Linsley, King, Jones, Williams.

Keycap digit five The top 5 players (Rodgers, Smith x2, Adams, & Amos) cost $100M in salary cap.

IF IT STAYS THIS WAY, I EXPECT SOMETHING TO HAPPEN TO AMOS. NOT SURE HE'S WORTH TOP 5 ON TEAM DEAL


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXMtnDDX0AgB5WW?format=png&name=small

Almost makes me wonder if they expected 1-2 of their FA acquisitions to fail and come off the books. How rare is it for a significant high-priced class to all be upgrades. And yes, Turner may be a weakness, but he's still an improvement over two prior turnstile years.

[GB-Brandon]

hahahaha Label thyself.

What I've observed in here is that most claiming to be fans care more about making snide negative remarks than they do for the team, and in the weird name of realism or whatever, are too timid (I used to say don't have the balls) to be homers.

Any exceptions, step forward and identify yourselves.

The whole thing is an expensive investment so for me the “buy in” equals the effort put in by the front office to take a chance and go for it. I’ve seen this movie play out far too many times with them having one foot in so I’m gonna go with one foot in. Tickets, Road Games, Travel, Gambling, Time etc etc adds up quickly.

When they decide too pull their heads out of their ass’s and quit “Pussy Footing Around” then the “buy in” from more fans(fanatics) would equal out more IMO.

[George Cumby]

Hypervigilant critical devotion is where I come down.

Fine. You’re a “Hype”.

Tex is a “fan”.

[mraynrand]

I was thinking about this the other day.

"Fan" is short for "fanatic".

A fanatic, according to MW definition 2 is: "marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion"

So for those of us who aren't "fanatics", what are we?

Whats the term, slang or otherwise, for someone who is moderately enthusiastic but doesn't get too worked up one way or the other?

Help me out, Packerrats.

Losers

[pbmax]

thats a lot of money to just sit on for reserves

especially when all the big name players signing big contracts are usually gone by the time the season starts

most players you sign during the season are minimum wage guys who are gonna be replacing other minimum wage guys

we're also sitting on about 11 million in free cap this year. but they were nice enough to say we have zero rollover

i call complete BS on those guys

fudge some numbers to get some clicks

His numbers have been good. That in season reserve is usually less than the Packers carry into the season. Under Thompson after adjusting from Sherman, he never went into a year without more than a couple mil to sign an emergency vet or two and extend a contract.

He's gone through where he gets that number from and is pretty thorough. Its basically the answer to why they never sign that one more player before camp question.

[pbmax]

Almost makes me wonder if they expected 1-2 of their FA acquisitions to fail and come off the books. How rare is it for a significant high-priced class to all be upgrades. And yes, Turner may be a weakness, but he's still an improvement over two prior turnstile years.

Fair point about getting across the board upgrades from FA in 2019 even if 2 aren't All Pro, but I doubt they keep Turner if they develop another Guard. Lot of money invested for modest production.

He'd have to get lights out performance this year or move to RT.

[pbmax]

Seems like a little bit of apples and oranges going on here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you talking about the 2021 situation using 2020 cap figures? True, Clark, Jones, Linsley, Bakhtiari, and King will be expensive to re-sign, but the salary cap has gone up by $55 million over the last 5 seasons. We can probably count on at least $11 million more next season. If you add that to the $15.3 million leftover now and figure in the roughly $25 million those guys are counting now, signing as many of them as we want should be well within reason.

Would be better with increasing cap, yes.

Problem is, with a possible season delay, no one knows what the revenue situation will look like in 2020 so the cap in 2021 is way up in the air. They already cancelled the internationalal games next year.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I'll reply to you and Bretsky at the same time. Did both of those guys go back to being a coordinator for 8-10 years waiting for the "right job"? If he was such a savant, wouldn't someone have thrown enough money at him by now? Wouldn't the SF job have been the "right job"?

Eventually a guy is what he is.

Irsay did write J-Mac a blank check. But in a move that reeks of Belichickism, J-Mac immediately resigned and returned to the city of traitious Red Coats, Boston.

Reeks of Belichickism. The NE headjob was actually Belichick's third gig, not second. After Rhodes' unjust dismissal, I told uncool Pack fans at jsonline that Wolf should trade a 1st rounder for some loser head coach of the JETs named Bill Belichick.

[texaspackerbacker]

I doubt he's exactly a difference maker of a coach anyway, but I'm thinking MacDaniel got assurance that he will be Belichick's successor in x number of years.

Good to see you are back, APB. I figured your stimulus arrived and you were out destroying more brain cells or something.

[pbmax]

Irsay did write J-Mac a blank check.

What the heck does this mean?


Reeks of Belichickism. The NE headjob was actually Belichick's third gig, not second.

:roll:

If you want to be pedantic, he has had four NFL HC stints. You should figure that out yourself.

[George Cumby]

Losers

Lol

[bobblehead]

Oh, I'm rooting for wins, being wrong and charges of hypocrisy all the way.

Pb, you have to learn to hedge everything you say, and then rewrite history and claim you were all in on XYZ and things went exactly as you stated.

[bobblehead]

Now being at the 2015 NFC Champ Game “Ruined My Life” temporally.

This is nothing. Damage has already been done.

Ok, I give major props for this post. I think you have been overly dramatic and irrational for a few weeks, but I laughed hard enough at this to forgive the rest. I too needed therapy after that one...my shrink was very understanding....didn't report me to authorities for the things I fantasized about doing to fat mike.

[Bretsky]

No chance I am watching that travesty.


I could not do it either

My self inflicted torture has been watching the second half of the NCAA championship BB game between Wisconsin and Duke. That still reigns in my book at the Biggest Screw Job of All Time.

Each time I watch it I get more pissed

[call_me_ishmael]

What I don't get is the 2nd round pick. You could land a better version of that dude in Fournette for a conditional pick probably. Why spend a #2 that when there are obvious needs elsewhere?

We shall see how it plays out.

[Bretsky]

What I don't get is the 2nd round pick. You could land a better version of that dude in Fournette for a conditional pick probably. Why spend a #2 that when there are obvious needs elsewhere?

We shall see how it plays out.



I get it

we are becoming Tennessee's offense. He's Flower's Derrick Henry

[pbmax]

Who did the full review of the Packers' decade of drafting? Was it Rashan or Ishmael?

Because Tom Silverstein took a stab at it https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2020/05/06/green-bay-packers-draft-criticize-all-you-want-but-wait-grades/3085479001/

and I have some complaints. Players still on the team is an obvious metric, but one with a flaw. Players can leave the team and do well elsewhere. Kyle Murphy is just hangin on with the Texans, but Dix, whatever you think of his skill set, is still starting.

We should have this argument again.

[GB-Brandon]

I could not do it either

My self inflicted torture has been watching the second half of the NCAA championship BB game between Wisconsin and Duke. That still reigns in my book at the Biggest Screw Job of All Time.

Each time I watch it I get more pissed

I was in Las Vegas for that one. Another painful blow no doubt. Got caught “counting the $” midway through second half.

[GB-Brandon]

“Total Insanity”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH-WO7-KpG4&feature=share

Sometimes things even make “less sense” as time goes on.

[mraynrand]

“Total Insanity”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH-WO7-KpG4&feature=share

Sometimes things even make “less sense” as time goes on.

Confirmation bias

[GB-Brandon]

Confirmation bias

Well I do believe he at least caught the right scent that has him sniffing too Mark Murphy. Quite frankly I’m not sure who Murphy is sucking off or what dirt he has on the city of Green Bay because IMO he has been a total Achilles Heal of this organization.

If you take away his contributions away from The Title Town District he has caused more damage then good.

[mraynrand]

Well I do believe he at least caught the right scent that has him sniffing too Mark Murphy. Quite frankly I’m not sure who Murphy is sucking off or what dirt he has on the city of Green Bay because IMO he has been a total Achilles Heal of this organization.

If you take away his contributions away from The Title Town District he has caused more damage then good.

I respect your right to a negative opinion of Murphy. I’d just like some better support for your view. I liked Stubby and thought he got railroaded out in favor of Rodgers and yet I still don’t have an overall negative view of Murphy. He may have made the wrong move with the “Silos” and with hiring Gute, but it’s too soon to know that yet, it seems to me.

[GB-Brandon]

Ok, I give major props for this post. I think you have been overly dramatic and irrational for a few weeks, but I laughed hard enough at this to forgive the rest. I too needed therapy after that one...my shrink was very understanding....didn't report me to authorities for the things I fantasized about doing to fat mike.

Rubber walls, straight jackets and lots of pills. :bang:

[GB-Brandon]

I respect your right to a negative opinion of Murphy. I’d just like some better support for your view. I liked Stubby and thought he got railroaded out in favor of Rodgers and yet I still don’t have an overall negative view of Murphy. He may have made the wrong move with the “Silos” and with hiring Gute, but it’s too soon to know that yet, it seems to me.

I also thought McCarthy got hung out to dry and basically set up. I believe McCarthy could “still be winning” with the Packers if he had the adequate tools to run his offense. Winning usually has a positive effect on coach/player relationships. However, I can see in hindsight where it might of been a good time to move on from McCarthy after the 2015 Champ Game. These types of failures are difficult to recover from sometimes in the same situation. This is another reason why I have concerns with Pettine moving forward.

Murphy has never intrigued me. Some things I don’t care too discus on here. Let’s just say I’m not a fan. I believe the power structure has been compromised and based on my history leads me to believe these things start at the top. Until you relieve the top of unnecessary ego and malpractice concerning personnel it’s hard to have “real change”.

[mraynrand]

I also thought McCarthy got hung out to dry and basically set up. I believe McCarthy could “still be winning” with the Packers if he had the adequate tools to run his offense. Winning usually has a positive effect on coach/player relationships. However, I can see in hindsight where it might of been a good time to move on from McCarthy after the 2015 Champ Game. These types of failures are difficult to recover from sometimes in the same situation. This is another reason why I have concerns with Pettine moving forward.

Murphy has never intrigued me. Some things I don’t care too discus on here. Let’s just say I’m not a fan. I believe the power structure has been compromised and based on my history leads me to believe these things start at the top. Until you relieve the top of unnecessary ego and malpractice concerning personnel it’s hard to have “real change”.

I’ll just have to accept your word on Murphy and wait and see.

I agree about Stubby and the 2015 failure. ATL didn’t recover from their collapse either. Sometimes you can’t get over something like that. Players lose confidence in the ability of leaders. And Pettine will have to go if he can’t counter SF in 2020.

[pbmax]

I also thought McCarthy got hung out to dry and basically set up. I believe McCarthy could “still be winning” with the Packers if he had the adequate tools to run his offense. Winning usually has a positive effect on coach/player relationships.

This is the fact that leads me to believe "big slot", "WR-less draft" and "Jordan Love" are not a function of LaFLeur, but Gute.

It started before him. Hell, Gute wanted Lock last year.

[pbmax]

I’ll just have to accept your word on Murphy and wait and see.

I agree about Stubby and the 2015 failure. ATL didn’t recover from their collapse either. Sometimes you can’t get over something like that. Players lose confidence in the ability of leaders. And Pettine will have to go if he can’t counter SF in 2020.

Capers eventually figured it out and Matthews stopped spinning himself like a top facing that offense.

But if it takes two years, we'll be on Lovetron.

[GB-Brandon]

This is the fact that leads me to believe "big slot", "WR-less draft" and "Jordan Love" are not a function of LaFLeur, but Gute.

It started before him. Hell, Gute wanted Lock last year.

And they wanted Kizer in the 2017 draft as he eventually traded for him in 2018 when becoming the GM. He seems to be obsessed with QB’s.

I’m starting to think the same that LaFluer wasn’t pounding the table for this either.