Packers 3rd Year Players

[pbmax]

Almost time to judge: https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/Article/Packers-desperately-need-their-third-year-players-to-step-up-Jaire-Alexander-Josh-Jackson-Oren-Burks-Allen-Lazard-147871702/

The only solid answers so far: Alexander, Scott and Bradley.

[bobblehead]

I'm not even overly impressed with scott. His inconsistency hurts the team at times.

I'm also upset that we don't have any 4th round picks to judge. Gutes keeps trading his 4ths away. You know who was a 4th round pick? Bacteria and Dr. Z

[texaspackerbacker]

I wish I was more confident in Alexander. He was great his first year, but it seemed like he backslid a little bit his second season in terms of ability to cover the top receivers. King ain't a 3rd year man, but I have a lot less confidence in him.

Scott does his job. I doubt he does it any better, though, than a lot of cheap UDFAs we could have picked up. Bradley? who knows - but if he doesn't get his name in the news, he must be getting his job done too.

The best example of solid on that list are the WRs - Lazard already, and St. Brown and Valdez-Scantling still good bets IMO.

Sullivan and Greene are good bets too.

All in all, though, it was a pretty sorry crop - with possibilities of rising all the way to average.

[ThunderDan]

I wish I was more confident in Alexander. He was great his first year, but it seemed like he backslid a little bit his second season in terms of ability to cover the top receivers. King ain't a 3rd year man, but I have a lot less confidence in him.

Scott does his job. I doubt he does it any better, though, than a lot of cheap UDFAs we could have picked up. Bradley? who knows - but if he doesn't get his name in the news, he must be getting his job done too.

The best example of solid on that list are the WRs - Lazard already, and St. Brown and Valdez-Scantling still good bets IMO.

Sullivan and Greene are good bets too.

All in all, though, it was a pretty sorry crop - with possibilities of rising all the way to average.
Thanks for the laugh. TPB thinks the CBs who have performed aren’t as good as our shitty WR Corps other than Adams.

[texaspackerbacker]

Hell yeah. You honestly are not at least a little bit worried that Alexander got beat so many times by most of the top receivers he was supposed to cover? And I keep hearing in here that King is so good. I really don't see it. It seems like he gets beat regularly by anybody, even lesser receivers. And Pettine's whole D scheme rests on these guys being out on an island a large part of the time.

You see our WRs as shitty? I won't rule out the possibility you get proven right about that, but I honestly see more hope for them than I do for our pass defense.

[Joemailman]

Hell yeah. You honestly are not at least a little bit worried that Alexander got beat so many times by most of the top receivers he was supposed to cover? And I keep hearing in here that King is so good. I really don't see it. It seems like he gets beat regularly by anybody, even lesser receivers. And Pettine's whole D scheme rests on these guys being out on an island a large part of the time.

You see our WRs as shitty? I won't rule out the possibility you get proven right about that, but I honestly see more hope for them than I do for our pass defense.

I think you're remembering a few bad plays by Alexander. For the year opposing QB's completed just 53.6% of passes when targeting Alexander's man. King was not as good at 58.8%

Chandon Sullivan was the best among DB's at 35.5%. Maybe that's why they're not rushing out to sign Tramon Williams, although it has to be considered that Sullivan didn't cover the quality of receivers that Alexander and King did.

[RashanGary]

In order, value of player (position adjustment for long snapper, for example being less valuable than WR)

Alexander
Lazard (big fan of this guy!)
Sullivan (imma fan!)
Scott (I think he's gonna be a great one)
MVS (one trick pony)
EQ (maybe!?)
Lancaster (we'll see)
Greene (we'll see)
Bradley (long snapper with some speed)
Light (ho hum)
Boyle (ho hum)
Madison (probably trash)
Burks (trash)
Jackson (trash)

[pbmax]

Hell yeah. You honestly are not at least a little bit worried that Alexander got beat so many times by most of the top receivers he was supposed to cover? And I keep hearing in here that King is so good. I really don't see it. It seems like he gets beat regularly by anybody, even lesser receivers. And Pettine's whole D scheme rests on these guys being out on an island a large part of the time.

You see our WRs as shitty? I won't rule out the possibility you get proven right about that, but I honestly see more hope for them than I do for our pass defense.

I don't think either Alexander or King are shut down corners, but both are capable of playing solid defense. I have FAR more concerns about the run D personnel than pass D personnel.

According to DVOA, Packers D was 9th against the pass and 23rd against the run.

I do think part of that disparity is the lean the Packers put into fielding pass D personnel and sub-packages. But they perform better versus the pass than the run.

[texaspackerbacker]

The problem is, in Pettine's defense, you need shutdown Corners, at least one for sure.

I read the percentages in Joe's post above. Are 53% and 58% seriously considered good? They sure don't seem very good to me - more than half the passes thrown their way completed?

We were 9th against the pass and 23rd against the run? I seem to remember some real stinker games against both, but we were 13-3, so what the heck. Maybe the higher rank against the pass was because a lot of teams were successful running on us and stuck with that. Also, we had a lot of sacks and hurries. Maybe our pass rush accounts for a lot of that high rank against the pass.

Ya'all know, usually I'm about the last person in here to be negative about anything Packer, but I just have bad memories of both King and Alexander getting beat, King just about all the time, it seemed, and Alexander whenever he single-covered somebody good.

[Bretsky]

In order, value of player (position adjustment for long snapper, for example being less valuable than WR)

Alexander
Lazard (big fan of this guy!)
Sullivan (imma fan!)
Scott (I think he's gonna be a great one)
MVS (one trick pony)
EQ (maybe!?)
Lancaster (we'll see)
Greene (we'll see)
Bradley (long snapper with some speed)
Light (ho hum)
Boyle (ho hum)
Madison (probably trash)
Burks (trash)
Jackson (trash)




It's a rough start when your 2nd and 3rd round picks are trash but I think you are right.

upside is really limited IMO

Gutebag was great at free agency last year but beyond that to be nice her performance is really up in the air

[RashanGary]

In order, value of player (position adjustment for long snapper, for example being less valuable than WR)

1[\b]Alexander
[B]3Lazard (big fan of this guy!)
4Sullivan (imma fan!)
7Scott (I think he's gonna be a great one)
7MVS (one trick pony)
7 EQ (maybe!?)
7 lancaster (we'll see)
7Greene (we'll see)
undrafted rest of the way Bradley (long snapper with some speed)
Light (ho hum)
Boyle (ho hum)
Madison (probably trash)
Burks (trash)
Jackson (trash)

I'm gonna place a round designation on where they should have been reasonably drafted and feel good about it.

That's not a great third year class so far. A couple decent players and a bunch of 7th round level jags you want to reolace. Let's hope Lazard, MVS, EQ and Sullivan jump. And maybe one of the other losers too

[RashanGary]

I mean, credit to the coaches for not playing the busted high picks. How long did we have to watch Randall start over Hyde or Jamaal Williams play over Jones in the McCarthy regime. Fuck.

[RashanGary]

I don't know if capers was senile down the stretch there (along with Thompson) or if McCarthy had his fat Pittsburgh fists entrenched in the defensive decision making.

But that was a nightmare. Glad to see Burks and Jackson not even get a shot. Shows the coaches ain't gonna just force a shitty player on the field anymore.

[RashanGary]

Speaking of funny old regime decision making....

Kind of hilarious that the Murphy brought in former white house press secretary as the secret weapon against Favre and bus cooks media campaign. Lol! Made Rodgers very media smart. Helped his career.

[pbmax]

Josh Jackson might not be built for this defense, but like Heyward, he is going to go somewhere and play well.

[texaspackerbacker]

I wouldn't be surprise at all if that happened. He just might be a very good zone D Corner. I really wish Pettine wasn't so damn stubbornly opposed to playing zone.

[Joemailman]

The problem is, in Pettine's defense, you need shutdown Corners, at least one for sure.

I read the percentages in Joe's post above. Are 53% and 58% seriously considered good? They sure don't seem very good to me - more than half the passes thrown their way completed?

We were 9th against the pass and 23rd against the run? I seem to remember some real stinker games against both, but we were 13-3, so what the heck. Maybe the higher rank against the pass was because a lot of teams were successful running on us and stuck with that. Also, we had a lot of sacks and hurries. Maybe our pass rush accounts for a lot of that high rank against the pass.

Ya'all know, usually I'm about the last person in here to be negative about anything Packer, but I just have bad memories of both King and Alexander getting beat, King just about all the time, it seemed, and Alexander whenever he single-covered somebody good.

The average completion percentage in the NFL is 63%. Stephon Gilmore, who was probably the NFL's best CB last year, allowed a completion percentage of 50.5. So I would say Alexander's 53% was well above average. King's 58% was probably pretty average. At any rate, if Alexander and King were as bad as you say, Packers would not have been 9th in the NFL against the pass.

[texaspackerbacker]

hahahahahaha I guess statistics never lie ...... like the stat of 13 wins and 3 losses.

I read a huge amount of crap every day in here about that stat being misleading. My take is that the 13 and 3 is a valid indicator, and the pass D stat is misleading. I guess we'll see going forward how it plays out.

[pbmax]

hahahahahaha I guess statistics never lie ...... like the stat of 13 wins and 3 losses.

I read a huge amount of crap every day in here about that stat being misleading. My take is that the 13 and 3 is a valid indicator, and the pass D stat is misleading. I guess we'll see going forward how it plays out.

Its not a lie. But the team is unlikely to be as healthy as they were last year. There is a first place schedule to compete against.

I think this is a good team, much closer in talent to the results in 2016/19 than 2017 or 2018.

But they aren't world beaters yet.

[RashanGary]

Its not a lie. But the team is unlikely to be as healthy as they were last year. There is a first place schedule to compete against.

I think this is a good team, much closer in talent to the results in 2016/19 than 2017 or 2018.

But they aren't world beaters yet.

I pretty much agree with this. Playoff contender, but not in the class of KC, Baltimore and New Orleans.

As a fan, I like to picture possibilities too. There's a chance a few things could fall our way and be contenders. I'm not betting on it tho.

[pbmax]

I pretty much agree with this. Playoff contender, but not in the class of KC, Baltimore and New Orleans.

As a fan, I like to picture possibilities too. There's a chance a few things could fall our way and be contenders. I'm not betting on it tho.

If you were a New Orleans fan, you would be posting about yearly playoff disappointment. People ALWAYS overrate that team.

[wist43]

Still have hope for EQ, and Lazard, Sullivan, and Green take some of the sting out of what is a pretty bad draft.

Been wondering for years if the Packers actually go back and evaluate past drafts by comparing their scouting report against the hard results??

Does Sam Seale need to go?? Other shakeups the scouting dept??

[run pMc]

Josh Jackson might not be built for this defense, but like Heyward, he is going to go somewhere and play well.

This would not shock me at all, sadly.
Pettine has had some pretty good talent to work with. How that talent is coached and used might be his downfall.

[bobblehead]

I mean, credit to the coaches for not playing the busted high picks. How long did we have to watch Randall start over Hyde or Jamaal Williams play over Jones in the McCarthy regime. Fuck.

Or Hawk and whoever play ahead of Desmond Bishop.

[pbmax]

I mean, credit to the coaches for not playing the busted high picks. How long did we have to watch Randall start over Hyde snip

2 years. But it wasn't Randall keeping Hyde on the bench. It was Burnett and the other safety flavor of the month.