Week 1 Vikings discussion thread

[bobblehead]

If ever I wanted to punch a team in the mouth, this is the game. Wagner and Turner go down at the end of camp. The pack hasn't called Veldheer in yet. The Vikings just traded for Ngakoue. Passing is going to be tough early in this game.

Not sure who is even going to start at RT, but the combination of above facts has created a problem right out the gate. The only solution I can come up with is to smash mouth at that DL early and often. Wear them down. Frustrate them. Then when they muscle up to hold position....boom Rodgers to MVS 40 yards downfield.

Like last year, we don't get no patsies early. Vikings, Lions, Saints. If we emerge 2-1 it will be a good start. C'mon gang, lets discuss this game.

And where the f#ck is Pb?

[RashanGary]

I thought Wagner came back august 28th and has practiced for a week. Two weeks if you count this Vikings week.

[RashanGary]

And yeah, we miss pb for sure. Most of us are too lazy to do anything but throw our opinions around like a dick measuring contest

[GB-Brandon]

I got the Packers winning this and feel real good about it. Line opened at +156 and has moved to +110 so $ coming in on Packers.

There are several new parts on this queens team and with no pre-season games it’s probably gonna take them some time to gel even more so then most teams. They are brand new at the corners so opportunities will be there.

Key Advantages- Aaron Rodgers > Kirk Cousins. No hostile environment at U.S Bank Stadium. More continuity among Packers starters.

Potential problems- Packers run defense and RT holding off Viking edge rushers.

Final Break Down- Unless the Packers blow the turnover battle in this one significantly I like the road team 24-13

[Patler]

The big question I have about this game is this:

Will the Vikings still pipe in high volume crowd noise to speakers above the Packer sideline?

[Tony Oday]

Big loss for the Pack in this game, hope to just get out of it healthy.

[RashanGary]

Wagner gonna need some help
The rest of the OL should hold up fine
Adams, Lazard and MVS have nice matchups vs a young corner group
Jones gonna have some run lanes up the middle of their soft interior DL

Vikings soft up middle on offense. Clark gonna have monster day.
Time to put Z, P and Gary to the test on setting an edge
Cousins in trouble cuz Z, Gary and Clark gonna be coming up gut all day
Our secondary should be able to stop thielen and company. Bisi Johnson a high upside second year guy, but still second year.


Vikings are a good team, but I think the Packers have fewer weak spots. Interior OL, corner and interior DL weaknesses for Vikings. Packers, really it’s just TE and ILB depth.

Vikings gonna test Sullivan and Greene. They’ll like up 3 wide and see if they can pick on the slot, Sullivan. Or they’ll go big and see if they can pick on Greene. Also gonna test P and Z in the run game. See if they learned anything from the SF game.

I think the Packers rise to the occasion. Vikings are good, but the Packers are better!

[RashanGary]

Rodgers is the wrong guy to go young at CB against and expect to win. Huge day from WR group!

[theeaterofshades]

calling a big day for EQ off the bench

[call_me_ishmael]

Aaron Rodgers starts the 2020 MVP campaign with 3 TDs. Big Bob Tonyan has 1.5 of them.

[RashanGary]

Aaron Rodgers starts the 2020 MVP campaign with 3 TDs. Big Bob Tonyan has 1.5 of them.

AR definitely has another MVP in him. Gonna need MVS and Lizard to be the best they can be!

[bobblehead]

Things I would like to see:

Z and Preston setting edge and stopping Dalvin cold
Z, and company still being able to pressure Cousins when they play action
Tonyan and Sternberger being incorporated into the passing game. Rodgers history isn't strong in utilizing TEs other than on the edges.
MVS/Lazard having an impact.
RT holding up with minimal help.

These are the things we need to have happen for a big season, and for a win Sunday.

[texaspackerbacker]

A Big Win. Rodgers will be excellent as always, but the MVP this game anyway will be Aaron Jones busting some big runs up the middle. Dillon plays late in the game and looks like the Colorado Buffalos mascot running through people. An outstanding pass rush makes the DBs look like all-pros. At least 5 sacks of Cousins including one by Gary and one the last series by Garvin. An early Packer lead makes run D not a problem. Kirksey looks good, Burks better than last year.

[run pMc]

Vikings will find out quickly if Pettine really did make efforts to fix the run defense. This will likely be an ugly low scoring game with poor tackling and passes thrown to nobody. I expect a good amount of rust on both sides, and plenty of running plays called. Vikings O is heavy play action and Kyle Rudolph is ancient but always a problem for GB.

If the Packers OL plays well, they should do ok. Not sure about RG's assertion they are soft up the middle, but I do think they can be beat. Young CBs will get beat -- even by GB's WR -- if Rodgers has enough time. Hunter and Ngakoe(?) are a concern, they have good safeties, and their LBs aren't bad.

Division games early are always a mystery, and they are playing on the road. Hard to predict this one, but I could see it being a 16-13 game going either way.

[Fritz]

It's weird having no news from the JSO. So Turner is hurt, and so was Wagner, but Wagner's back? How badly is Turner hurt? Who the hell is the backup RT?

Who won the starting WR jobs? Who's the starting TE? Is Dillon just a slug?

[GB-Brandon]

It's weird having no news from the JSO. So Turner is hurt, and so was Wagner, but Wagner's back? How badly is Turner hurt? Who the hell is the backup RT?

Who won the starting WR jobs? Who's the starting TE? Is Dillon just a slug?

From what I know and have heard Tonyan is the starting TE. Lazard and Adams are the starting receivers with MVS as the 3rd. Turner will most likely not be a go. Wagner should be a go. If Wagner can’t go the move would be to move Lane Taylor E. Jenkins out to Right Tackle.

Dillion is not a slug but is buried behind Jones and Williams.

[RashanGary]

You never know what you have with the young corners. Guys develop and become stars. It’s no sure thing that they’re bad players. But still..... Rodgers and Lafleur almost have to test that corner group early and often to see if they’re ready.

I’m pretty sure we’re gonna see a lot of 3 WR looks early just to test the Vikings boundary youth out of the gate.

With that, Jones is obviously your running back. And you almost need a TE/H-back type in there to really threaten those defensive ends with a run option. Tonyan, Jamaal Williams and Mercedes are our three more polished blocking/Swiss army types.

Adams
MVS
Lizard
Tonyan/Jamaal/Mercedes/swerv
Jones

Tonyan has a traditional TE skillset
Mercedes has a blocking TE skill set with a little pass catching ability
Jamaal is unique, being he best pass blocking back in football, really opening up the passing game and allowing Jones to get some deep opportunities against linebackers. I also think he could run block like a FB if he ever had the chance, and might now with the deep stable of backs
Swerv is a different kind of Swiss Army knife. More like a Deebo Samuel type. That would put additional threat on the Vikings shallow cornerback group


I expect to see all four of our most experienced versatility players matched with the 3 WR sets. If the Vikings go small, I expect our tackles to lean on their pass rushers and wear them down with the run game. If they go a little bigger, I’d expect to see some matchup problems with really good pass catching backs on linebackers.

I have an idea what the packers have and some ideas of what the Vikings have. They’ll play around and see which matchups work best, but I think a heavy dose of 3WR sets is very likely in week 1

[RashanGary]

I’d say just line up and pass the ball, but those edge rushers make that impossible. So that’s where the blocking pieces we have need to be inserted and some wear em out and keep em off balance run game needs to be a part of the equation.

[texaspackerbacker]

Not a word about Sternberger, RG and GBB. Is he hurt or has he fallen that far in the depth charts? I had a low opinion of the guy, and I haven't heard of anything he's done to change that.

I don't expect Rodgers to use TEs any more than he ever has. I do expect some big plays to WRs, though, as the Vikings try to tighten up against the run. And I do NOT expect a low scoring game. 38-20 Packers sounds about right.

[George Cumby]

The big question I have about this game is this:

Will the Vikings still pipe in high volume crowd noise to speakers above the Packer sideline?

Lol.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

It's weird having no news from the JSO. So Turner is hurt, and so was Wagner, but Wagner's back? How badly is Turner hurt? Who the hell is the backup RT?

Who won the starting WR jobs? Who's the starting TE? Is Dillon just a slug?

You must’ve missed the news: A while ago, the German Shepherd outlawed scribes from reporting the depth chart, injuries and the such. Covid has permitted secrecy in the NFL. Ole GB-Brandon was like, Gute is trying to mask the Packers’ suckness.

The Detroit Lions have been posting mini-Hard Knocks vids on the YouTube. As a result, I’ve learned more about the Lions this summer than our beloved Pack. For example, Patrica talks like he’s black. Can’t say a sentence without using the word “man.” Also, the Lions boycotted a practice before the Pack. Don’t ask me why they - and the Pack - boycotted practice. Too FYI.

[RashanGary]

Kirksey 4.58 and Greene 4.51 are incredibly fast at the LB position (4.55 average)
Amos 4.56 and Savage 4.36 are incredibly fast at the safety position (4.46 average)
Alexander 4.38 and King 4.43 are incredibly fast at the CB position (4.41 average)

That’s probably the fastest base defense in the NFL.

Sullivan 4.6 slows things down a bit when he’s in at nickel. I’m excited to see Savage fly around this year. I could see a ton of cover 1 with savage roaming the deep middle and Alexander/King being able to run with anyone on the outside. Frees up that extra box defender on early downs to stop the run. Then a lot of cover 2 on third down cuz our pass rush only needs 4 to get home.

[jklowan]

Packers 2020 Depth Chart: Week 1 vs. Vikings

Offense

WR: Davante Adams | Equanimeous St. Brown
LT: David Bakhtiari | Yosh Nijman
LG: Elgton Jenkins | Jon Runyan
C: Corey Linsley | Lucas Patrick
RG: Lane Taylor | Lucas Patrick
RT: Billy Turner | Rick Wagner
TE: Marcedes Lewis | Robert Tonyan | Jace Sternberger/Josiah Deguara
WR: Allen Lazard | Malik Taylor
WR: Marquez Valdes-Scantling | Equanimeous St. Brown
QB: Aaron Rodgers | Tim Boyle | Jordan Love
RB: Aaron Jones | Jamaal Williams | Tyler Ervin/AJ Dillon


Defense

DE: Dean Lowry | Montravius Adams
NT: Kenny Clark | Montravius Adams
DE: Tyler Lancaster | Kingsley Keke
OLB: Preston Smith | Randy Ramsey | Jonathan Garvin
ILB: Christian Kirksey | Ty Summers
ILB: Oren Burks | Ty Summers
OLB: Za’Darius Smith | Rashan Gary
CB: Jaire Alexander | Chandon Sullivan | Ka’dar Hollman
CB: Kevin King | Josh Jackson | Parry Nickerson
S: Adrian Amos | Will Redmond | Vernon Scott
S: Darnell Savage Jr. | Raven Greene


Looks like RT, NT, DE and ILB has very little depth

[GB-Brandon]

I’d say just line up and pass the ball, but those edge rushers make that impossible. So that’s where the blocking pieces we have need to be inserted and some wear em out and keep em off balance run game needs to be a part of the equation.

Expect a lot of J. Williams on passing downs to help out in pass protection and especially at RT with chips etc. This is why I don’t expect to see much of Dillion other then to possibly give Jones a breather on run plays. They trust Williams more then anyone in pass protection situations.

[George Cumby]

Burks "Parkerats Love to Hate Me" is starting?

[texaspackerbacker]

Interesting that they don't even list a fullback in the depth chart, 3 WRs instead. I like that, I think.

[RashanGary]

Expect a lot of J. Williams on passing downs to help out in pass protection and especially at RT with chips etc. This is why I don’t expect to see much of Dillion other then to possibly give Jones a breather on run plays. They trust Williams more then anyone in pass protection situations.

I do expect a lot of this. Sort of like the way John Kuhn manned that third down spot for years. Pass pro. Pass pro. Pass pro. The three most important qualities of a running back in clear passing situations.

Rodgers has said a few times last year that he loved his chemistry with both Jones and Williams. He said last year it’s been a while since he had a running back he really had that with.

Tonyan, Stergberger and Deguara have a long way to go before 12 can say he has chemistry with them. I don’t expect the Packers to be too gung ho about getting the green players on the field in week 1.

Not only is Williams an elite pass protector. He’s also incredibly savvy in the screen game. He’s always been a good pass catcher and Rodgers said Williams has made a big jump in that area. With so much inexperience in Stergberger, Tonyan and Deguara, the experience of Williams and chemistry with 12 really comes to the forefront. I would not be the least bit surprised to see Williams play some Hback type role with Jones on the field as RB. Or Hback with Ervin at RB too. Kind of a creative way to use your most NFL ready blocking/catching prospect. Hides the inexperience at TE and allows 12 to build chemistry before they have to do it in game action.

[RashanGary]

Damon Harrison saying he might let twitter decide his next spot. Must not be getting any blow away offers. Green Bay has been in contact with him.

Packers fans blowing up Twitter to get him here.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Just a reminder: I have dibs on the official week 1 GameDay thread.

Don’t want to give ThunderDan the opportunity to start the GD thread for 19 str8t weeks. TD thinks he’s so much better than us all cos he has season tickets.

[RashanGary]

Rick Wagner has been a Lane Taylor level starting RT for the last 7 years. Outside of last years injury riddled season he’s graded out as a solid starter on Pff. He’s 30. Turning 31 in October.

He’s healthy. For now. And Billy Turner is coming back.

Guy has played a lot of good NFL football. If that’s our biggest concern, and it is, we're no where near the level of uncertainty as the Patriots starting Marshmallow Newhouse at LT last year. Let's RELAX! Bakh will hold down the left side and Wagner will.get a little help. No worries!

[Patler]

Rick Wagner has been a Lane Taylor level starting RT for the last 7 years. Outside of last years injury riddled season he’s graded out as a solid starter on Pff. He’s 30. Turning 31 in October.

He’s healthy. For now. And Billy Turner is coming back.

Guy has played a lot of good NFL football. If that’s our biggest concern, and it is, we're no where near the level of uncertainty as the Patriots starting Marshmallow Newhouse at LT last year. Let's RELAX! Bakh will hold down the left side and Wagner will.get a little help. No worries!

... and yet, Newhouse has 81 career starts to Wagner's 87, albeit in two more seasons. I have always had respect for the way Newhouse has battled to have an NFL career, going where ever he is needed, and playing what ever position he is needed for. He has started at every o-line position except center

[RashanGary]

... and yet, Newhouse has 81 career starts to Wagner's 87, albeit in two more seasons. I have always had respect for the way Newhouse has battled to have an NFL career, going where ever he is needed, and playing what ever position he is needed for. He has started at every o-line position except center

Pretty damn solid NFL career. Very few who make it to the NFL accomplish what Marshmallow did in his long career. I'm with you on that respect for sure. He's been a career 60 grade player per pff grading scale. And teams always looking to replace him seem to match with that grade. Team's not being able to find someone better is also a pattern, probably the reason he's lasted so long.

Wagner is different in that he's locked down a spot and held it for two different teams. A career 70 grade matches with that sort of team commitment too because there aren't many better.

Wagner at age 31, one of his last likely to be really solid years is a fairly big improvement compared to all the team's starting those 60 level players. It's happening all over the place. We're fretting about one of the more solid RTs of the last decade. Its a bit of a luxury gripe.

[RashanGary]

Both Lane Taylor and Rick Wagner are in that 70 Pff grade performance level. Both are guys team's have penciled in and paid. Both are 30 years old and turning 31 by the end of November.

It's a fairly solid, but aging, right side.

The bigger fear is next year when we need to start looking at moving on from both

[bobblehead]

Not a word about Sternberger, RG and GBB. Is he hurt or has he fallen that far in the depth charts? I had a low opinion of the guy, and I haven't heard of anything he's done to change that.

I don't expect Rodgers to use TEs any more than he ever has. I do expect some big plays to WRs, though, as the Vikings try to tighten up against the run. And I do NOT expect a low scoring game. 38-20 Packers sounds about right.

Then I expect Love or Boyle to be our QB sooner rather than later.

[bobblehead]

Both Lane Taylor and Rick Wagner are in that 70 Pff grade performance level. Both are guys team's have penciled in and paid. Both are 30 years old and turning 31 by the end of November.

It's a fairly solid, but aging, right side.

The bigger fear is next year when we need to start looking at moving on from both

This year we will see the "rise of Yosh". Or he will flame out ala Alan Babre.

[Tony Oday]

I would imagine Dalvin Runs for 120+, Thielen destroys our secondary and AR is under pressure all day and has a lack luster game until crunch time when he gets junk stats and a TD or 2.

[RashanGary]

Danielle hunter out!!! Might be able to line up and poke at those corners a little easier than we first thought!

[Tony Oday]

Danielle hunter out!!! Might be able to line up and poke at those corners a little easier than we first thought!

Yikes that changes a lot.

[Upnorth]

Danielle hunter out!!! Might be able to line up and poke at those corners a little easier than we first thought!

They still have decent edge rush in the fa and back up so not easy for our tackles but good news for our oline.

[RashanGary]

Hunter is the best player on their team. He’ll be missed.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers pimping Tonyan. Lazard was his guy last year. 12 might know a thing or two. I've been a huge tonyan counter, but if 12 is on board, so am I

[RashanGary]

Viking fans, fans of the team that had the collarbone injury in their stadium as part of their hype videos during games, are whining that Packer fans are happy that Hunter is out. Yeah, fuck off!

[Fosco33]

Hoping for a somewhat competitive game. I imagine the lack of preseason will show up (sort of like NCAA) in the first month.

Not sure about others - but this is the least excited I’ve been about a packers season in a very long time.

[run pMc]

Viking fans, fans of the team that had the collarbone injury in their stadium as part of their hype videos during games, are whining that Packer fans are happy that Hunter is out. Yeah, fuck off!

I'm not happy that Hunter has a neck injury. I am happy that the Vikings defense could be negatively impacted.

As for Rodgers 'pimping' certain players, I always am wary of that. Seems to me when coaches or the QB do that it's more of a confidence-booster or public way to motivate them. Sternberger was on COVID list and then seemed rusty coming back, so it's not a huge surprise he's not the starter. I think they'll all rotate in. Tonyan has had several seasons to get it figured out; IMO it's now or never for him to show something or get labelled a tease.

[Patler]

Wagner is different in that he's locked down a spot and held it for two different teams. A career 70 grade matches with that sort of team commitment too because there aren't many better.

Wagner at age 31, one of his last likely to be really solid years is a fairly big improvement compared to all the team's starting those 60 level players. It's happening all over the place. We're fretting about one of the more solid RTs of the last decade. Its a bit of a luxury gripe.

That's my concern, he did not lock down a position with the Lions. There were rumblings from the get-go that he was not performing up to his FA contract, but played because of it. Then, after just three years of a 5 year contract, the Lions released him, took the signing bonus hit, then went out and signed a replacement to an even larger $/yr contract than Wagner's. That sounds like a player who has hit his end, even though he is not by any means ancient for a lineman.

I fear this might be a Jeff Saturday-like signing. Hope I am wrong.

[Guiness]

That's my concern, he did not lock down a position with the Lions. There were rumblings from the get-go that he was not performing up to his FA contract, but played because of it. Then, after just three years of a 5 year contract, the Lions released him, took the signing bonus hit, then went out and signed a replacement to an even larger $/yr contract than Wagner's. That sounds like a player who has hit his end, even though he is not by any means ancient for a lineman.

I fear this might be a Jeff Saturday-like signing. Hope I am wrong.

But Saturday made the Pro Bowl when he was with the Packers!:huh::cnf::roll:

[RashanGary]

That's my concern, he did not lock down a position with the Lions. There were rumblings from the get-go that he was not performing up to his FA contract, but played because of it. Then, after just three years of a 5 year contract, the Lions released him, took the signing bonus hit, then went out and signed a replacement to an even larger $/yr contract than Wagner's. That sounds like a player who has hit his end, even though he is not by any means ancient for a lineman.

I fear this might be a Jeff Saturday-like signing. Hope I am wrong.

Wagner got a contract in he the top 5 of right tackles. He's more like top 15, so a gripe may have more to do with a couple injuries he battles and a bad contract like players often get as UFAs.

Performance wise, outside last year, he's consistently graded as an above average RT. Bulaga slightly above Wagner. Marshmallow a good step below Wagner, even at his best.

If Wagner had the RT version on the Lane Taylor contract, hed probably still be a Lion. But he had a Bulga level contract and couldnt stay healthy.

[RashanGary]

For a couple games, I have a ton of faith in Wagner. For a whole season, at his age and injury history, glad we have Turner.

[RashanGary]

Lane Taylor and Wagner have graded about the same. Solid starter grades. They're the same age. Both have had injuries. I don't feel like the right side is weak right now. Just average.

[RashanGary]

Bakhtiari/Jenkins/Lindsley

Is about as solid of a left side as you'll get in football.


Lindsey/Taylor/Wagner is as veteran, steadily average of a right side as you'll find in football.


Jenkins likely growth and the drop from Bulaga to Wagner probably offset each other. I like Taylors consistency a little more than I like Turners hot/cold profile.



Rodgers has played with some different OL combos in his career. There were times where the tackles we're the strength and time where Sitton/(Tretter/Lindsley)/Lang were the strength. When the inside was strong he stepped into that space. When the tackles were strong he stayed a little deeper in the pocket for longer. Rodgers can develop the habit of stepping up and to his left a little more this year. He's the 30 million dollar man for a reason.

[RashanGary]

When Bakh was young, Rodgers had that great interior and was really good at stepping up to make Bakhs job easier. Right now, with Wagner older and Jenkins/Lindsleu/Taylor so steady, he can do that for Wagner

[jklowan]

D line help on the way... According to ESPN’s Rob Demovsky, the Packers (https://heavy.com/sports/green-bay-packers/) are signing former Baltimore Ravens defensive tackle Daylon Mack, a 2019 fifth-round pick, after he worked out for the team earlier this week. The 6-foot-1, 340-pound run-stopper fills the final open space on the Packers’ 53-man active roster ahead of Sunday’s season opener in Minnesota.

[GB-Brandon]

Lane Taylor and Wagner have graded about the same. Solid starter grades. They're the same age. Both have had injuries. I don't feel like the right side is weak right now. Just average.

Wagner’s overall PFF grade last year was 58.6. That’s hardly “Average”

Thanks for the sales job though!!!

[RashanGary]

Wagner’s overall PFF grade last year was 58.6. That’s hardly “Average”

Thanks for the sales job though!!!

He battled injuries and is around 75 the 5 or 6 years prior. No sales necessary. Just an objective look at his level of production and accomplishment is all it takes

[Spaulding]

Wagner can be considered a more than serviceable RT provided last year was an aberration and due to some underlying condition such as injuries versus inconsistency or age related.

Pro Football Focus has Wagner listed for the following ratings since he entered the league:

2019 - 58.6
2018 - 71.4
2017 - 75.2
2016 - 74.0
2015 - 64.4
2014 - 80.1
2013 - 76.3

If you throw out the high and the low (although his high was early in his career and his low was last year and so up for debate on if that suggests a fading player) you have a player averaging out for just over 72 which is more than serviceable in the NFL and likely at least average if not slightly above.

I certainly would have liked the bull from Iowa back at RT but given the cost and his injury concerns as well it's worth the gamble at RT given our ability to slot Turner and others for a few games there if needed. Not ideal but the norm for most teams that aren't the Colts/KC/Saints/Ravens/Eagles.

More concerned about the run defense at this point. Interesting to see the signing of Mack n Cheese today. Hopefully that allows Clark to remain fresh without too much of a drop off in run situations.

[RashanGary]

Bulagas average is about 2 ticks higher. Not all that dissimilar. Bulaga is slightly better and equally injury prone. It’s not a big drop at all.

Now, there’s a chance Wagner is just over the hill, but he’s still 30 years old. He’s got one more I bet

[GB-Brandon]

Bulagas average is about 2 ticks higher. Not all that dissimilar. Bulaga is slightly better and equally injury prone. It’s not a big drop at all.

Now, there’s a chance Wagner is just over the hill, but he’s still 30 years old. He’s got one more I bet


The key here is “Thirty” where most of these guys fall off. Sure, some can hang on a few more years and be productive but to think Wagner isn’t anything more then a low budget gamble coming off his injury and production woes to me is just wishful thinking.

Sure, we could get lucky but the probabilities in these type of signings is far more to the greater that they don’t usually work out. I’d be shocked if he even finishes the season.

[call_me_ishmael]

Bulaga is a top tier player in the NFL. Wagner is just a guy. He's a Milwaukee guy, so I like him, but to compare the two is not really a competition. Bulaga makes 5x the money for a reason.

[GB-Brandon]

Bulaga is a top tier player in the NFL. Wagner is just a guy. He's a Milwaukee guy, so I like him, but to compare the two is not really a competition. Bulaga makes 5x the money for a reason.

Exactly, Bulaga has been a top 5 RT in the league. To spread propaganda that Wagner is a just a tick down is ridiculous. Wagner was a “Stop Gap” move by Gute and we’ll see if it will be enough. I’m not so sure.

[Patler]

No one knows Wagner's performances the last three years better than the Lions. No one knows his injury last year better than the Lions. No one knows the impact of his injury on his performance last year better than the Lions. No one is in a better position than the Lions to judge how he might perform this year in view of past injuries and age.

It appears that the Lions determined last year was less of an aberration and more of an indication of what to expect in the future. Wagner was under contract for two more seasons. If they believed he would still be a reliable starter, he would still be on the team, even if overpaid. There are many players who are paid to be better than they really are. So long as they are still competent, reliable starters, they keep their jobs.

Yes, overpaid vets often are released to save cap space, but that isn't what happened with Wagner. The Lions didn't have a cheaper alternative ready to plug in to Wagner's spot. Instead, they released Wagner, ate the remaining signing bonus amounts against their cap, and then went out and signed a guy to a contract valued at slightly more per year than Wagner's contract. It is difficult to come up with a plausible explanation other than that the Lions determined Wagner would be a very weak link this year and next, so weak that he needed to be replaced.

All that said, as for GB, I think it was reasonable to sign Wagner. They don't have a lot guaranteed in his contract. He can even be kept as a backup for a not atrocious cost. If he does start and hits the contract max, he will ne relatively cheap.

I don't mind the signing, but don't expect much from it.

[Bretsky]

Bulagas average is about 2 ticks higher. Not all that dissimilar. Bulaga is slightly better and equally injury prone. It’s not a big drop at all.

Now, there’s a chance Wagner is just over the hill, but he’s still 30 years old. He’s got one more I bet


I'm calling bullshit here. Wagner is fine at OT, but he's not near Bulaga quality.

And I'm a Wisconsin Badger fanatic. He was a good Badger ! So I probably overvalue him, like many others.

Completely healthy I feel Wagner is average (which probably means he's below average cuz I'm a homer)

Bulaga is way above average when completely healthy

[GB-Brandon]

The big question I have about this game is this:

Will the Vikings still pipe in high volume crowd noise to speakers above the Packer sideline?

From what I gather crowd noise can be pumped in up to the 70 dB level during this altered state of no fans or limited fans at games.

[RashanGary]

Bulaga has a hamstring. Wagner looking like a good move 1 week in.

[pittstang5]

Bulaga is way above average when completely healthy

...When Healthy

Seemed Bulaga was always getting hurt and getting older - not a good combo.

[RashanGary]

Bulaga is 31 years old. Wagner is over the hill and injury prone at 30 but Bulaga is elite at 31!

And I'm the one who sees with a cloudy perspective. Ok :lol:

[RashanGary]

Andrew Witworth age 39, Pff grade 72 last year. Pff grade close to 90 most of the last 7 years.

Bulaga 31, Pff grade close to 75 most of the last 7 years

Wagner 30, Pff grade close to 74 most of the last 7 years

It's not a big drop and Wagner is no more injury prone than Bulaga.

Gute made the right move with two overpriced, solid players in Bulaga and Martinez. Made the right move with two low paid solid players in kirksey and Wagner.

[RashanGary]

Pff grades

------Newhouse---Bulaga--Wagner--Witworth 39 years old
2012 66-- 63-- dnp-- 75
2013 53-- dnp-- 76-- 90
2014 57-- 75-- 80-- 92
2015 57-- 68-- 64-- 85
2016 66-- 75-- 74-- 83
2017 58-- 61-- 75-- 82
2018 56-- 75-- 71-- 84
2019 63--78-- 58-- 72

Newhouse is kind of a career 55-60 player
Wagner is a career 70-75 player
Bulaga 70-75
Witworth 80-90


First of all, bulaga is not, not even in his best year, even close to elite. 2nd of all, Wagner does perform at Bulagas level. Newhouse is bad. Bulaga and Wagner are good. Witworth is a career elite player.

Wagner was injured last year, is solid otherwise and had a big bad contract. We’re lucky to have him at half of Bulagas contract.

[GB-Brandon]

Bulaga is 31 years old. Wagner is over the hill and injury prone at 30 but Bulaga is elite at 31!

And I'm the one who sees with a cloudy perspective. Ok :lol:

Based on talent and production on the field they are not even close yet you continue to try and push the needle that we got the “Next Best Thing”. I’m fine with it being a Stop Gap Signing and providing some depth but like the receiver position it should not of been the only means used to fortify the position. Time will tell.

See, there is this thing called the draft where a team that was 13-3 had plenty of resources to shore these things up yet they chose to make “Other Things” more important!!!

[GB-Brandon]

Bryan Bulaga is going into the Packer HOF. Rick Wagner is an average at best player who got overpaid who is currently physically breaking down.

End of Story. Please quit disrespecting Bulaga.

[RashanGary]

Pettine talked all last year about not giving up the big play and how the passing game is a little.more important than the run game. With 7 man boxes, the defense doesn't have enough guys near the line of scrimmage to play a guy in each gap. Pettine protected his rookie free safety and instead asked his guys up front to play a gap and a half. They were young guys and didn't stay disciplined in their gap and a half responsibilities. The result was a great pass defense, but an undermanned and inexperienced run defense getting gashed at times.

Fast forward to 2020. Pettine has zero rookies in the back end and experience across.the board. Not once.did he say he was going.to ”lean on the experience and talent of.the secondary last year and he's already calling his shot.this year. What does that mean? It means more 8 man boxes and more single safety looks for savage. He’ll probably mix in some of last years gap and a half responsibilities in the front too, with guys being asked.to be more disciplined during those times.

Thanks to a more mature and reliable secondary, the Packers will have more resources to stop the run. Thanks to a more experienced and battle tested front, even during the gap and a half responsibilities, the front will be more disciplined.

The run D is fixed. Heard it here first!

[GB-Brandon]

Pettine talked all last year about not giving up the big play and how the passing game is a little.more important than the run game. With 7 man boxes, the defense doesn't have enough guys near the line of scrimmage to play a guy in each gap. Pettine protected his rookie free safety and instead asked his guys up front to play a gap and a half. They were young guys and didn't stay disciplined in their gap and a half responsibilities. The result was a great pass defense, but an undermanned and inexperienced run defense getting gashed at times.

Fast forward to 2020. Pettine has zero rookies in the back end and experience across.the board. Not once.did he say he was going.to ”lean on the experience and talent of.the secondary last year and he's already calling his shot.this year. What does that mean? It means more 8 man boxes and more single safety looks for savage. He’ll probably mix in some of last years gap and a half responsibilities in the front too, with guys being asked.to be more disciplined during those times.

Thanks to a more mature and reliable secondary, the Packers will have more resources to stop the run. Thanks to a more experienced and battle tested front, even during the gap and a half responsibilities, the front will be more disciplined.

The run D is fixed. Heard it here first!


Pettine can run his mouth all he wants. Until I see him “In-Game” make the right adjustments needed I have my reservations.

[bobblehead]

The key here is “Thirty” where most of these guys fall off. Sure, some can hang on a few more years and be productive but to think Wagner isn’t anything more then a low budget gamble coming off his injury and production woes to me is just wishful thinking.

Sure, we could get lucky but the probabilities in these type of signings is far more to the greater that they don’t usually work out. I’d be shocked if he even finishes the season.

Big men hit the wall a bit later because technique and strength are more important than quick twitch and agility. If Wagner is healthy he will be serviceable. I doubt he will be Bulaga, but serviceable. And injury has a lot to do with how you care for your body, especially as you age. I can't predict the future as I don't know Wagner in his everyday life, but he definitely has a few years left as adequate if he is doing the right things.

[bobblehead]

To Ismael and Brandon, Bulaga was not top 5. I love Bulaga, but he is more like top 12. Wagner probably slots in around 20. The reason we have Wagner is because both Bulaga and Wagner were slated to be paid as top 5. Both us and the Lions rejected that paycheck, but we got wagner on a reasonable contract.

Patler, the Lions cut him in year 3 because all these deals are really 3 year deals with an out. Most of them are structured exactly this way to be eliminated in year 3 unless the player outplays it. Some teams are being cap smarter like the packers and doing more 3 year deals so we are not paying a penalty when we get out after 3 years. I could be wrong about this specific situation as I haven't seen his contract details, but its the norm and it was the case with Lang.

In short, I'd rather have Wagner on the contract we have him on than Bulaga on the deal he signed.

[bobblehead]

Andrew Witworth age 39, Pff grade 72 last year. Pff grade close to 90 most of the last 7 years.

Bulaga 31, Pff grade close to 75 most of the last 7 years

Wagner 30, Pff grade close to 74 most of the last 7 years

It's not a big drop and Wagner is no more injury prone than Bulaga.

Gute made the right move with two overpriced, solid players in Bulaga and Martinez. Made the right move with two low paid solid players in kirksey and Wagner.

Good analysis. This is about right. Maybe overstating Wagner a touch. Whitworth is an example of what I'm saying about big men aging better in NFL terms. Andre is a very large man. He is very technically sound. He can continue to play even though he has lost a touch of quick twitch. Show me a 39 year old WR or cornerback or even linebacker.

[bobblehead]

Based on talent and production on the field they are not even close yet you continue to try and push the needle that we got the “Next Best Thing”. I’m fine with it being a Stop Gap Signing and providing some depth but like the receiver position it should not of been the only means used to fortify the position. Time will tell.

See, there is this thing called the draft where a team that was 13-3 had plenty of resources to shore these things up yet they chose to make “Other Things” more important!!!

Same old spiel. If I say they suck data be damned. JH patlerized you dude. Accept it. He is correct. Wagner is just a step below Bulaga. Both have injury issues. Bulaga was healthy one year and got paid. Wagner was unhealthy in year 3 of a get out contract and got cut. We got a similar player (just a bit below) for a much better price. You are wrong on this. You are a one trick pony. Everyone sucks ass except who you say doesn't and it doesn't matter how many times you get served with hard data proving you wrong.

[bobblehead]

Bryan Bulaga is going into the Packer HOF. Rick Wagner is an average at best player who got overpaid who is currently physically breaking down.

End of Story. Please quit disrespecting Bulaga.

Please quit telling us a good, above average T is top 5.

[bobblehead]

Bryan Bulaga is going into the Packer HOF. Rick Wagner is an average at best player who got overpaid who is currently physically breaking down.

End of Story. Please quit disrespecting Bulaga.

Its pretty simple to do math. Average out the 7 years both players played and see who is the better player by an objective source, PFF. Its not the guy you seem to think it is.

Actually, before last year, it wasn't even that close. So Bulaga has a near career year at the age of 31 to get it close. He still isn't the tackle Rick Wagner has been in his career. Data doesn't lie.

End of Story. Please Quit disrespecting Rick Wagner.

[Bretsky]

To Ismael and Brandon, Bulaga was not top 5. I love Bulaga, but he is more like top 12. Wagner probably slots in around 20. The reason we have Wagner is because both Bulaga and Wagner were slated to be paid as top 5. Both us and the Lions rejected that paycheck, but we got wagner on a reasonable contract.

.



I'm pretty close to this; I would put Bulaga more of a top 10 guy and Wagner a top 20ish guy

We signed Wagner for a cheaper deal, and I'm ok with that

[Patler]

Honest question here, because I don't know:

Does PFF really have a meaningful calculus for O-linemen? For that matter, how many of their ratings for any position are accurate and meaningful? I honestly don't know if they are really meaningful, or not. In some ways it strikes me like the various credit score companies that have convinced just about every business and industry that they can manipulate an individuals lifetime credit data into meaningful conclusions for anything you can think of. including life expectancy.

I know what PFF does and how they do it, just wonder if it really means anything, or are they just numbers?

[GB-Brandon]

Same old spiel. If I say they suck data be damned. JH patlerized you dude. Accept it. He is correct. Wagner is just a step below Bulaga. Both have injury issues. Bulaga was healthy one year and got paid. Wagner was unhealthy in year 3 of a get out contract and got cut. We got a similar player (just a bit below) for a much better price. You are wrong on this. You are a one trick pony. Everyone sucks ass except who you say doesn't and it doesn't matter how many times you get served with hard data proving you wrong.

No, I’m not wrong on this and it will be very clear as the season progresses. Packer fans have been spoiled by having a RT as good as Bulaga. He had some knee issues but when healthy he is one of the best in the league.

We can re-visit this later.

[RashanGary]

Honest question here, because I don't know:

Does PFF really have a meaningful calculus for O-linemen? For that matter, how many of their ratings for any position are accurate and meaningful? I honestly don't know if they are really meaningful, or not. In some ways it strikes me like they various credit score companies that have convinced just about every business and industry that they can manipulate an individuals lifetime credit data into meaningful conclusions for anything you can think of. included life expectancy.

I know what PFF does and how they do it, just wonder if it really means anything?

If you don't watch every play of every player in every game, and I don't think anyone does, this is the best player measure we have. And it lines up pretty well if you back check it against coaching decisions and contracts.

[GB-Brandon]

Honest question here, because I don't know:

Does PFF really have a meaningful calculus for O-linemen? For that matter, how many of their ratings for any position are accurate and meaningful? I honestly don't know if they are really meaningful, or not. In some ways it strikes me like they various credit score companies that have convinced just about every business and industry that they can manipulate an individuals lifetime credit data into meaningful conclusions for anything you can think of. included life expectancy.

I know what PFF does and how they do it, just wonder if it really means anything?

I really don’t have the time for a PFF debate. While they aren’t the Bible of football player rankings they do a pretty good job and give a good general indication of where a player is at. I like to use PFF as a baseline and then go from there but everyone has their own way of things I suppose.

In the case of Wagner his tape last year more then matches his rating. He hasn’t looked that great in camp either. Unfortunately, there are some “tools” here that think if you just put the Green and Gold on someone then they become an All-Pro all the sudden.

[RashanGary]

I pay for Pff because I consider it the most trust worthy information out there. And I watch 80% of nfl games condensed on game pass. It lines up really well with my observations and gives me insight into things I can't see watching each play once from a big picture perspective.

I don't think they're right all of the time. They have the Packers as a top 7 defense. I think the Packers are top 5 easy.

[GB-Brandon]

I pay for Pff because I consider it the most trust worthy information out there. And I watch 80% of nfl games condensed on game pass. It lines up really well with my observations and gives me insight into things I can't see watching each play once from a big picture perspective.

I don't think they're right all of the time. They have the Packers as a top 7 defense. I think the Packers are top 5 easy.

The Packers haven’t proven they are a top 5 defense so once again your just throwing Kool-Aid around.

Are we just trying speak things into existence?

[RashanGary]

No one thought DJ Chark or Chris Godwin were top WRs heading into last season. Just as no one thinks Lazard and MVS are good receivers now. But that's what's nice about football. It shuts people like Brandon up year after year.

[RashanGary]

The Packers haven’t proven they are a top 5 defense so once again your just throwing Kool-Aid around.

Are we just trying speak things into existence?

Try seeing things for how they are, not how they were and you'll be wrong less often :wink:

[GB-Brandon]

Try seeing things for how they are, not how they were and you'll be wrong less often :wink:

I am and I’m not sold on this D-Line outside of Clark. Lowry and Lancaster are mediocre. Adams is hurt already again. They simply don’t have enough upfront IMO to finish the season as a top 5 defense. Yes, they will flash here and there but just not dominate enough up front over the course of 16 games.

[Patler]

Patler, the Lions cut him in year 3 because all these deals are really 3 year deals with an out. Most of them are structured exactly this way to be eliminated in year 3 unless the player outplays it. Some teams are being cap smarter like the packers and doing more 3 year deals so we are not paying a penalty when we get out after 3 years. I could be wrong about this specific situation as I haven't seen his contract details, but its the norm and it was the case with Lang.

In short, I'd rather have Wagner on the contract we have him on than Bulaga on the deal he signed.

That's just it, Wagner's deal wasn't really one of those contracts with funny money, and that was my point. Wagner's contract was very straight forward and simple. His salary for 2020 would have been the same as it was in 2019, and the same as it would have been in 2021, if they kept him. No roster bonuses, either. $47.5 million, 5 years; $14.5 M signing bonus, salaries of $3M in 2017 & 2018; $9M in 2019, 2020 and 2021. Basically, they decided that in 2020 and 2021 he wouldn't be worth what they paid him in 2019. As I wrote before, they seemingly determined that 2019 was not an aberration, but an indication of what was to come.

Salary cap savings wasn't their reason either, they didn't need it. They had something like $50M in cap space going into the off season, as I recall.

The only reason that makes any sense to me is that the Lions concluded Wagner would be a significant weakness as a starter, so much so that he had to be replaced. Nothing else really makes much sense to me. If Wagner really was a top half of the league RT, they would have kept him.

Instead, they went out and signed a guy to replace him that is costing them an additional $20M in guaranteed money this year and next.

All that said, with Bulaga's injury history and the Packers cap situation, I think I too prefer Wagner and his Packer contract to Bulaga and his new contract, but only because I don't trust Bulaga injury wise. What I was really hoping for was Bulaga for about the contract that Wagner signed in GB.

[RashanGary]

9m would make him the 9th highest paid RT in the NFL. Bulaga, coming of his best two years just got 10m per season.

Not wanting to pay him 9m doesn’t mean he’s not worth 5. It means they didn’t want to give him top 10 $$. That’s all it means for sure

[RashanGary]

Wagner is a 30 year old historically solid RT. Bulaga is slightly better than that and 31. The salary cap makes everything a money game

[RashanGary]

The Packers faced Wagner 5 or 6 times in the last three years. They know what kind of player he is.

[RashanGary]

Funny thing is, he’s still the 14th highest paid RT at 5.5M per year. Packers must not have thunk he was garbage, eh?

[RashanGary]

Even more perspective.... the Packers just let Bulaga walk for 10m/year coming off his best and healthiest two year stretch of his career. The lions Not paying Wagner 9m doesn’t seem to mean nearly as much as you seem to assume, Patler.

[RashanGary]

Wagner had the 3rd highest cap hit on his team. I’m pretty sure even the Greenest of gold vision here (me) hasn’t called him a top 3 player for any NFL team. He was just overpaid. The Packers paid him more what he’s worth. Top 15, basically in line with his PFF grade and coming off an injured year type money.

[Patler]

I am and I’m not sold on this D-Line outside of Clark. Lowry and Lancaster are mediocre. Adams is hurt already again. They simply don’t have enough upfront IMO to finish the season as a top 5 defense. Yes, they will flash here and there but just not dominate enough up front over the course of 16 games.

D-line is a concern. Lowry and Lancaster are what they are. Sure, in any given year one might provide better pass rush stats than before, but they won't be difference makers, just place holders. Adams has to be a regular part of the rotation soon, or he won't last the season, I suspect.

Clark is good and could improve further, because inspite of his NFL experience he is still very young. Physically maturing could make him even better. Other than Clark, maybe Keke could show improvement?

Just don't see them dominating many games as a group.

[Patler]

Even more perspective.... the Packers just let Bulaga walk for 10m/year coming off his best and healthiest two year stretch of his career. The lions Not paying Wagner 9m doesn’t seem to mean nearly as much as you seem to assume, Patler.

Apples and oranges, in my opinion, considering cap space for each team, contract status of the player, dead money, etc. If the Packers had had $50 M cap space and Bulaga under contract for another 2 years at an additional $9M per year, I suspect they would have been happy to keep him.

[GB-Brandon]

D-line is a concern. Lowry and Lancaster are what they are. Sure, in any given year one might provide better pass rush stats than before, but they won't be difference makers, just place holders. Adams has to be a regular part of the rotation soon, or he won't last the season, I suspect.

Clark is good and could improve further, because inspite of his NFL experience he is still very young. Physically maturing could make him even better. Other than Clark, maybe Keke could show improvement?

Just don't see them dominating many games as a group.

They signed Dylon Mack so they know that they are thin.

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2020/09/10/green-bay-packers-sign-former-ravens-daylon-mack-fill-out-roster/3456614001/

I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see additional improvement from Clark but also wouldn’t be surprised to see some injury set in. So Yeah, whether Keke or Adams someone is going to need to step up at some point.

Generally when people talk about “Top 5 Defenses” you can point to guys or a group of guys upfront that can dominate. The Packers can have all the shinny toys in the world on the back end but if they “can’t dominate as a group” like you posted upfront I think this top 5 talk is a MIRAGE.

[Patler]

9m would make him the 9th highest paid RT in the NFL. Bulaga, coming of his best two years just got 10m per season.

Not wanting to pay him 9m doesn’t mean he’s not worth 5. It means they didn’t want to give him top 10 $$. That’s all it means for sure


Funny thing is, he’s still the 14th highest paid RT at 5.5M per year. Packers must not have thunk he was garbage, eh?

I have already said I don't mind the signing at all, (because as structured GB has little financial risk with Wagner). I wasn't confident he would even make the final 53. Even said I prefer Wagner and his contract to Bulaga and his new contract (mostly because of the guarantees). Guarantees mean a lot on older player contracts.

I'll say it again, I don't mind the Wagner signing at all; I just don't expect much from it.

[GB-Brandon]

Wagner had the 3rd highest cap hit on his team. I’m pretty sure even the Greenest of gold vision here (me) hasn’t called him a top 3 player for any NFL team. He was just overpaid. The Packers paid him more what he’s worth. Top 15, basically in line with his PFF grade and coming off an injured year type money.

Yet he wasn’t even going to beat out Billy Turner!!!

[RashanGary]

I'll say it again, I don't mind the Wagner signing at all; I just don't expect much from it.

5.5 per from a 30 year old RT who's been a pretty solid NFL player.... Plus the Packers new personnel guy, he's the #2 or #3 guy after gute.... He was pryed from the Ravens staff and has a track record of finding OL.

Anyway, that guy spent 4 years with Wagner. He knows how Wagner works and how he fit in with that team. It's not a blind audition. They know his NFL production and they know the kind of guy he is.

I expect a little less than Bulaga. Bulagas paid in the top 10 and deserves it. Wagner is top 15 now and should live up to that or they shouldn't have paid him. I expect a RT who performs about as well as Lane Taylor did at guard. Just a decent RT. Servicable.

[texaspackerbacker]

They signed Dylon Mack so they know that they are thin.

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2020/09/10/green-bay-packers-sign-former-ravens-daylon-mack-fill-out-roster/3456614001/

I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see additional improvement from Clark but also wouldn’t be surprised to see some injury set in. So Yeah, whether Keke or Adams someone is going to need to step up at some point.

Generally when people talk about “Top 5 Defenses” you can point to guys or a group of guys upfront that can dominate. The Packers can have all the shinny toys in the world on the back end but if they “can’t dominate as a group” like you posted upfront I think this top 5 talk is a MIRAGE.

We didn't have anybody like him - a Gilbert Brown or Howard Green or Grady Jackson. I like that kind of player a helluva lot more than the Lowry or Lancaster type, especially beside Kenny Clark. Mack was a 5 star high school player, so he must have some skill. I'm expecting more from Keke (a college teammate of Mack) this year than Adams.

[wist43]

I thought Mack was signed to the practice squad??

[GB-Brandon]

I thought Mack was signed to the practice squad??

According to everything I have read and heard he is was signed to the 53

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2020/09/10/packers-will-sign-dl-daylon-mack-to-complete-53-man-roster/

[GB-Brandon]

We didn't have anybody like him - a Gilbert Brown or Howard Green or Grady Jackson. I like that kind of player a helluva lot more than the Lowry or Lancaster type, especially beside Kenny Clark. Mack was a 5 star high school player, so he must have some skill. I'm expecting more from Keke (a college teammate of Mack) this year than Adams.

I never said I didn’t like the signing. Like I’ve said “Someone is going to need to step up” big time if this is going to be a top 5 defense like some seem to think.

[wist43]

According to everything I have read and heard he is was signed to the 53

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2020/09/10/packers-will-sign-dl-daylon-mack-to-complete-53-man-roster/

No, he's on the PS. I looked up the transaction.

If he were on the opening day roster his salary would be guaranteed for the year. The rules for activating from the PS used to say that player had to be carried the rest of the year - not sure if that is still the case.

[GB-Brandon]

The other thing to watch for is when you have “Stellar Tackle Play” like we had with Bulaga it’s easier to hide poor to average guard play. It will be interesting to see how the whole right side of the OL holds up.

Like I posted much earlier I expect a lot of J. Williams tomorrow. Not a horrible thing but makes the offense even less dynamic in certain situations.

[RashanGary]

The other thing to watch for is when you have “Stellar Tackle Play” like we had with Bulaga it’s easier to hide poor to average guard play. It will be interesting to see how the whole right side of the OL holds up.

Like I posted much earlier I expect a lot of J. Williams tomorrow. Not a horrible thing but makes the offense even less dynamic in certain situations.

R-E-L-A-X chicken little

[RashanGary]

In Gute we trust

[RashanGary]

No, he's on the PS. I looked up the transaction.

If he were on the opening day roster his salary would be guaranteed for the year. The rules for activating from the PS used to say that player had to be carried the rest of the year - not sure if that is still the case.

Pretty sure only the players on the initial roster are guaranteed. He was signed after so not guaranteed

[Bretsky]

In Gute we trust


Don't be a Gutebag :)

[RashanGary]

Don't be a Gutebag :)

:lol:

I'm trolling :lol:

[wist43]

Pretty sure only the players on the initial roster are guaranteed. He was signed after so not guaranteed

Was listening to a podcast, and they said it was 'on the roster week 1'. As such and b/c of that, they said they expect Mack might be activated on Tuesday if they still need him; then, can cut him later without consequence.

I don't know myself, I haven't kept up with the rules. Just going off what they said.

[RashanGary]

Oh yeah, looks like ps

[The Shadow]

Forget the BS.
It comes down to QBs.
Packers 27
Vikes 17

[Patler]

No, he's on the PS. I looked up the transaction.

If he were on the opening day roster his salary would be guaranteed for the year.

Not sure about the guarantee, isn't he only a 2nd year player? Doesn't the guarantee apply only to vested veterans (essentially 4 years)?

[wist43]

Not sure about the guarantee, isn't he only a 2nd year player? Doesn't the guarantee apply only to vested veterans (essentially 4 years)?

Not sure, like I say - I haven't kept up with the rule changes. The podcast I was listening to said they looked up the rules and that's what they reported back.

I think Mack could be a good thing rotational guy, but he needs to be kept fresh.

[GB-Brandon]

Forget the BS.
It comes down to QBs.
Packers 27
Vikes 17

Does this mean we’ll get to see Jordan Love today? :bang:

[GB-Brandon]

:lol:

I'm trolling :lol:

And Wagner can’t even get on the field today!!!!

http://twitter.com/RobDemovsky/status/1305181481237721090

I try telling you these things but you just don’t want to listen!!!!!!!!

[GB-Brandon]

Its pretty simple to do math. Average out the 7 years both players played and see who is the better player by an objective source, PFF. Its not the guy you seem to think it is.

Actually, before last year, it wasn't even that close. So Bulaga has a near career year at the age of 31 to get it close. He still isn't the tackle Rick Wagner has been in his career. Data doesn't lie.

End of Story. Please Quit disrespecting Rick Wagner.

But But But But But?

http://twitter.com/RobDemovsky/status/1305181481237721090

Lmao. You guys are something else!!!!

[RashanGary]

Lizard!

[RashanGary]

How Rodgers lookin to ya, Brandon. Ready to eat some crow?

[GB-Brandon]

How Rodgers lookin to ya, Brandon. Ready to eat some crow?

Why would I eat crow? I’m the biggest Aaron Rodgers fan in here!!!!

[George Cumby]

How Rodgers lookin to ya, Brandon. Ready to eat some crow?

Sharp in a way today that we haven’t seen for a couple years.

[GB-Brandon]

If it wasn’t for MVS dropping wide open passes and Lazard tripping over his shoe laces he would of had over 500 yards and 5 TD’s.

You fools eat Crow!!!

[GB-Brandon]

It’s like I keep saying. Go get a legit number 2 option outside Adams and this team can go all the way.

It’s not Fucken rocket science.

[GB-Brandon]

However @RG I don’t believe there will be any “Top 5 defensive rankings” this season by the Packers defense. Just sayin.

[RashanGary]

If it wasn’t for MVS dropping wide open passes and Lazard tripping over his shoe laces he would of had over 500 yards and 5 TD’s.

You fools eat Crow!!!

:lol:

Just stop saying things Brandon. I think the quiet look is your smartest look :wink:

[RashanGary]

Calling us fools :lol:

You’re so cute :lol:

[run pMc]

Rodgers was very sharp today. If that's his default mode this year, they look dangerous. Then again, Minny trotted out some green CBs so Adams should feast on that. Was disappointed in MVS dropping some nice throws, but he also made some decent catches. Lazard looked like he belongs too. Didn't see much from the TEs but the Vikes' LBs have good speed so I'm not surprised. Thought the RBs looked good. Jones had some nice cuts, Ervin looked sharp on the jet sweeps and even Dillon got a couple of nice runs in.

That 2nd half defense though - oof.

Worried about those injuries though. Any news on those yet? I missed the 1st half and didn't see Clark or Lucas Patrick, but Lane Taylor's injury didn't look good.

[RashanGary]

The green CBs and the injured pass rush was a problem.for minny. That's a real good team. Great offense and much better defense with the pass rushers back.

[GB-Brandon]

Rodgers was very sharp today. If that's his default mode this year, they look dangerous. Then again, Minny trotted out some green CBs so Adams should feast on that. Was disappointed in MVS dropping some nice throws, but he also made some decent catches. Lazard looked like he belongs too. Didn't see much from the TEs but the Vikes' LBs have good speed so I'm not surprised. Thought the RBs looked good. Jones had some nice cuts, Ervin looked sharp on the jet sweeps and even Dillon got a couple of nice runs in.

That 2nd half defense though - oof.

Worried about those injuries though. Any news on those yet? I missed the 1st half and didn't see Clark or Lucas Patrick, but Lane Taylor's injury didn't look good.

Taylor has a torn ACL.

[QBME]

Taylor has a torn ACL.

From whence does your information come?

I agree it certainly did not look good when he was on the cart.

Are you some medical expert that spends an inordinate time on this site, or just a pessimistic person? (I wanted to call you an asshole, but you haven't earned that level as of yet. But keep it up you're on your way.)

[bobblehead]

And Wagner can’t even get on the field today!!!!

http://twitter.com/RobDemovsky/status/1305181481237721090

I try telling you these things but you just don’t want to listen!!!!!!!!

Funny about this. If you dig through all my garbage posts somewhere you will find me saying the right move is to put Elgton at RT and Taylor at LG. That was way back before camp. I always thought the replacement for Bulaga should be Jenkins. If not Elgton, then Leroy.

[bobblehead]

But But But But But?

http://twitter.com/RobDemovsky/status/1305181481237721090

Lmao. You guys are something else!!!!

But I was trolling you by acting like you. And in the end, Wagner played RT and actually held up pretty well.

[Patler]

But I was trolling you by acting like you. And in the end, Wagner played RT and actually held up pretty well.

Not much of a feather in his cap, though, nor in Gutekunst's, when he was the third option for the position.

[sharpe1027]

It's true. I don't want to listen to Brandon.

[run pMc]

I think if Wagner didn't have a bad elbow he'd have been out there starting instead of Jenkins.
They put him out there because they didn't have anyone else except Runyan Jr. and Njiman, and putting them out at RT over Wagner would have been iffy at that point. I'd take 90% Wagner at RT over 100% of Njiman just coming off PUP, and probably over a rookie in Runyan (who I actually like and thought played ok at RG).

Not a huge fan of having a lot of cap money tied up in depth OL, but you have to have some reliable backups. $7M is a lot though. If it keeps Rodgers from getting sacked and he continues to have days like yesterday it might be worth it lol. Rodgers also seemed to get the ball out fast and on rhythm more often which was good, and I thought he made some great throws but also showed some decent mechanics (throwing with feet set, shoulders squared, etc.). Not very often GB puts up over 500 yds of offense and a 40-burger on the Vikes in their dome.

There were times that game looked like a scrimmage with rusty/tentative defenses. I didn't expect the offenses to go crazy like they did.

[GB-Brandon]

From whence does your information come?

I agree it certainly did not look good when he was on the cart.

Are you some medical expert that spends an inordinate time on this site, or just a pessimistic person? (I wanted to call you an asshole, but you haven't earned that level as of yet. But keep it up you're on your way.)



https://twitter.com/ProFootballDoc/status/1305311721905467393?s=20

[run pMc]

https://twitter.com/richeisen/status/1305235269554110464?s=20
@richeisen

Mike Zimmer is going to peel the paint off his lockerroom.
@AaronRodgers12 supplanted the Wilfs as owners of the Vikings today.
Wow.

Wouldn't want to be a CB during team film review. Dantzler, Hill, Hughes all got torched, mostly by Adams. Didn't see much of Gladney, their R1 pick. Rodgers looked good; can he do that consistently? Detroit has given him problems under Patricia.

[GB-Brandon]

https://twitter.com/richeisen/status/1305235269554110464?s=20
@richeisen


Wouldn't want to be a CB during team film review. Dantzler, Hill, Hughes all got torched, mostly by Adams. Didn't see much of Gladney, their R1 pick. Rodgers looked good; can he do that consistently? Detroit has given him problems under Patricia.

Rodgers had 144 passer rating when throwing to Adams. 112 to everyone else.

In my keys to game Queens corners were a big factor. Them having no pre-season or basically off-season didn’t help either. They(Queens Corners) have a long way to go and they just didn’t have much of a chance against Adams. MVS was also streaking open on several plays.

I don’t expect this to be the norm moving forward but that doesn’t mean Rodgers can’t keep the offense humming to a degree with his elite play and a healthy Adams. I think it’s pretty obvious this offense would be nasty and pretty much unstoppable with a legit no.2 option outside Adams.

Why that hasn’t happened yet is unthinkable!!!!

[bobblehead]

Not much of a feather in his cap, though, nor in Gutekunst's, when he was the third option for the position.

Agree with that. But I thought Elgton should be the starting RT way back when Bulaga left, not because of anything Wagner (who wasn't signed yet) might do, but because of just how damn good he looked as a rookie. We didn't get much from camp, but I wonder how much Jenkins was playing RT behind closed doors and if signing wagner was just a shotgun approach to having options.

Wagners career is what it is. Nothing special, but a long term NFL adequate starter. Daryn College if you will. Bulaga is an above average starter. I think if they commit to Jenkins long term he will be equal to Bulaga and hopefully more healthy. The more damning thing is as you say...they probably had Turner ahead of him on the depth chart, but we don't even know that for sure. Turner is a below average tackle by the looks of it.

[bobblehead]

Rodgers had 144 passer rating when throwing to Adams. 112 to everyone else.

In my keys to game Queens corners were a big factor. Them having no pre-season or basically off-season didn’t help either. They(Queens Corners) have a long way to go and they just didn’t have much of a chance against Adams. MVS was also streaking open on several plays.

I don’t expect this to be the norm moving forward but that doesn’t mean Rodgers can’t keep the offense humming to a degree with his elite play and a healthy Adams. I think it’s pretty obvious this offense would be nasty and pretty much unstoppable with a legit no.2 option outside Adams.

Why that hasn’t happened yet is unthinkable!!!!

So yesterdays offense wasn't good enough? I would say having a #2 who put up 4/96 and a TD is pretty good. You can continue your mantra in the face of evidence if you want. You might as well tell us how dominant your top contender, SF, looked yesterday as well.

[texaspackerbacker]

Agree with that. But I thought Elgton should be the starting RT way back when Bulaga left, not because of anything Wagner (who wasn't signed yet) might do, but because of just how damn good he looked as a rookie. We didn't get much from camp, but I wonder how much Jenkins was playing RT behind closed doors and if signing wagner was just a shotgun approach to having options.

Wagners career is what it is. Nothing special, but a long term NFL adequate starter. Daryn College if you will. Bulaga is an above average starter. I think if they commit to Jenkins long term he will be equal to Bulaga and hopefully more healthy. The more damning thing is as you say...they probably had Turner ahead of him on the depth chart, but we don't even know that for sure. Turner is a below average tackle by the looks of it.

I disagree about Jenkins. We didn't do much with him at RT, and we snapped back to some good runs up the middle when he moved back to LG. Either Wagner did a good job at RT, or else the position just wasn't that important a factor.

Apparently Lane Taylor is gone - ACL?. Runyon also either did a good job or else the position just wasn't much of a factor, as things did not get worse when he subbed in. I've said for a long time, Aaron Rodgers' mobility allows us to get by without particularly good O Line play.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I disagree about Jenkins. We didn't do much with him at RT, and we snapped back to some good runs up the middle when he moved back to LG. Either Wagner did a good job at RT, or else the position just wasn't that important a factor.

Jenkins played well at RT and LG. We moved the ball all day. We just got bogged down in the redzone the first few drives, but I didn't see that being because of Jenkins.

[GB-Brandon]

So yesterdays offense wasn't good enough? I would say having a #2 who put up 4/96 and a TD is pretty good. You can continue your mantra in the face of evidence if you want. You might as well tell us how dominant your top contender, SF, looked yesterday as well.

Yes we got a win and Rodgers and Adams looked Elite and Amazing. The rest was a mixed bag and so so with obviously some major concerns moving forward.

Will that be enough? I’m not so sure.

I’d feel a heck of a lot better with better weaponry and I’m not buying this bullshit excuse that it just wasn’t attainable. Our first round pick isn’t even suiting up. This is just an all to familiar road of falling short in the end. It’s just so unfair to Rodgers. He has to overcome so much.

[Patler]

I think if Wagner didn't have a bad elbow he'd have been out there starting instead of Jenkins.


If true, the Packers should be investigated by the league, because he was not listed on their injury reports last week.

[RashanGary]

We have to see Jenkins against top tier talent before we crown him. But he did nothing to suggest he doesn't deserve a crown some day.

Wagner getting beat by Jenkins might not mean as much as we think it means. Wagner being kept on the roster and plying well might mean something tho. Lots of information to sift through here.

[GB-Brandon]

I’d be shocked if they didn’t bring in Justin Britt with these injuries on the OL and how they feel about Wagner.

[HarveyWallbangers]

We don't know what they feel about Wagner. The guy missed quite a bit of camp. He might be healthy now, but he may not have gotten enough reps on a new team with a new scheme for the coaches to feel comfortable with him yet.


“Anytime you’re not out on the grass and not getting those meaningful reps, it does set you back,” Packers coach Matt LaFleur said Friday. “But Rick’s a pro, we’ve got a lot of confidence in him, he’s started a lot of games in this league and he’s done it at a high level.”

[HarveyWallbangers]

We have to see Jenkins against top tier talent before we crown him. But he did nothing to suggest he doesn't deserve a crown some day.

Wagner getting beat by Jenkins might not mean as much as we think it means. Wagner being kept on the roster and plying well might mean something tho. Lots of information to sift through here.

Crown his ass!

[GB-Brandon]

Crown his ass!

Gute desperately needs it to work as his draft picks are flaming out left and right!!!

[HarveyWallbangers]

Lucas Patrick got good news on his shoulder. He should be good to go next week. Now, let's get some good news on Clark.

[Patler]

We have to see Jenkins against top tier talent before we crown him. But he did nothing to suggest he doesn't deserve a crown some day.

Wagner getting beat by Jenkins might not mean as much as we think it means. Wagner being kept on the roster and plying well might mean something tho. Lots of information to sift through here.

In some ways, Wagner didn't get beat out by Jenkins, he was beaten out by Lucas Patrick. The coaching staff decided it was better to make two changes to the starting o-line than it was to simply insert Wagner. That usually is not a good sign because arguably you are then weaker at two positions.

[GB-Brandon]

Darnell Savage brought up the rear for PFF @ 38.5

Wow. That’s pretty bad.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Barnes had 6 tackles on 15 snaps. One was a TFL on a screen. I think there was another at the LOS. I won't crown his ass, but it would be funny if we solved the ILB problem with a late round pick (Martin) and a UDFA (Barnes) + Kirksey. I think Summers has some potential. Hopefully, Greene gets back to where he was at the start of last year.

[GB-Brandon]

Barnes had 6 tackles on 15 snaps. One was a TFL on a screen. I think there was another at the LOS. I won't crown his ass, but it would be funny if we solved the ILB problem with a late round pick (Martin) and a UDFA (Barnes) + Kirksey. I think Summers has some potential. Hopefully, Greene gets back to where he was at the start of last year.

Kamal Martin can ball!!! They need to get him back.

Right now they have a lot to figure out.

[run pMc]

Gute desperately needs it to work as his draft picks are flaming out left and right!!!

Take a look at the Vikes. They had 14 picks, 10 on the roster. R1 pick Gladney played ST, R2 pick Ezra Cleveland didn't suit up, R1 pick Justin Jefferson dominated with 2 catches for 26 yards. Dantzler got a toasty welcome to the NFL. KJ Osborn, a Day 3 pick, probably had the biggest impact returning kicks.

How about DeAndre Swift dropping a game winning TD throw for Det, or the fact that the Lions are playing a 35 year old Adrian Peterson over Kerryon Johnson and Swift.

Look around the league; many draft picks don't pan out and GMs keep their jobs...and so do the online "draft gurus".

[RashanGary]

Darnell Savage brought up the rear for PFF @ 38.5

Wow. That’s pretty bad.

He had an awful game. I saw that right away. Cocky kid. Needs his head on straight. He's young. He don't know shit.

[GB-Brandon]

Take a look at the Vikes. They had 14 picks, 10 on the roster. R1 pick Gladney played ST, R2 pick Ezra Cleveland didn't suit up, R1 pick Justin Jefferson dominated with 2 catches for 26 yards. Dantzler got a toasty welcome to the NFL. KJ Osborn, a Day 3 pick, probably had the biggest impact returning kicks.

How about DeAndre Swift dropping a game winning TD throw for Det, or the fact that the Lions are playing a 35 year old Adrian Peterson over Kerryon Johnson and Swift.

Look around the league; many draft picks don't pan out and GMs keep their jobs...and so do the online "draft gurus".

You can cherry pick some guys from yesterday but Gute’s philosophy and not addressing needs on a team that could be a Super Bowl contender has been catastrophic.

I’d argue a 6th grader can chart an RAS board if you really want to get down to it. Then you throw in the stubbornness to not get Rodgers more playmakers on offense and it’s not good. Gute’s been here 3 years now. Where are all his players? Show me?

If anyone can’t see what this offense would be like with a legit weapon opposite Adams after yesterday then I can’t help them.

[wist43]

Barnes had 6 tackles on 15 snaps. One was a TFL on a screen. I think there was another at the LOS. I won't crown his ass, but it would be funny if we solved the ILB problem with a late round pick (Martin) and a UDFA (Barnes) + Kirksey. I think Summers has some potential. Hopefully, Greene gets back to where he was at the start of last year.

Watching the tape today... noticed Barnes - Burks nowhere in sight. Barnes showed good recognition and instincts.

Think they've given up on Burks... great athlete, just can't play football.

[GB-Brandon]

Watching the tape today... noticed Barnes - Burks nowhere in sight. Barnes showed good recognition and instincts.

Think they've given up on Burks... great athlete, just can't play football.

The good ole RAS Chart. Had to trade up and have him!!!