O-line shuffles during week 1

[Guiness]

Did anyone keep up with the o-line shuffles on Sunday?

Jenkins started at RT, did he play the whole game there? He isn't even listed at that position on the depth chart. I think Wagner came in after Taylor and Patrick went down. I saw Runyan out there too, where did he play?

[texaspackerbacker]

Jenkins switched back to LG early on when Patrick got hurt - thankfully IMO (not Patrick getting hurt, but Jenkins back at Guard). Runyon played RG after Taylor got hurt, and he seemed to do a good job. Wagner did ok at RT too, it seemed to me anyway.

Supposedly there's a good chance Patrick can play against the Lions. I HOPE they don't go back to Jenkins at Tackle. Either Patrick or Runyon at RG.

If we get way ahead, I'd like to see what Nijman can do too.

[Upnorth]

If runyon is a solidish and he can keep it up it will dramatically help after loosing Taylor.

[run pMc]

Bahk - Patrick - Linsley - Taylor - Jenkins

then

Bahk - Jenkins - Linsley - Taylor - Wagner

then

Bahk - Jenkins - Linsley - Funyun - Wagner

Thank goodness they didn't have to play Njiman.

[run pMc]

If runyon is a solidish and he can keep it up it will dramatically help after loosing Taylor.

I thought Runyan played well for being thrown in there. Wagner held up too. Rodgers barely got touched, partly because of the OL and partly because he got the ball out quick.

[texaspackerbacker]

I read where Billy Turner will likely go back to RG where he was last season when he's healthy enough.

[run pMc]

I read where Billy Turner will likely go back to RG where he was last season when he's healthy enough.

That makes sense if they like how Wagner played. The other option would be to put Lucas Patrick at RG and Turner (or Wagner) at RT.
They have to be encouraged by what they saw from Wagner and Runyan yesterday. Ngawoe (or whatever) was shutout.

Rodgers was supposedly pressured four times yesterday (https://www.dailynorseman.com/21436389/minnesota-vikings-green-bay-packers-recap-2020-week-1-five-game-changing-plays)

pretty incredible for 40+ passing attempts.

That's a combination of very good OL blocking, QB and receiver play, and poor CB coverage. Still, you gotta give the GB OL depth some credit.

[Sparkey]

Seems I remember fans ranting about LaFleurs choice of Stenavich as OLine coach. Looking like he knows what he is doing and getting guys ready to play.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Runyan is listed as 6-4 307 but he looked smaller than that in the huddle.

[RashanGary]

Good second game for a banged up OL. Lions aren’t incredibly potent up front.

[HarveyWallbangers]

OL of the future:

LT Bakh
LG Runyan
OC Hanson (unless they somehow resign Linsley to a reasonable deal, unlikely)
RG Patrick/Stepaniak/Taylor/Turner - may the best man win
RT Jenkins

[RashanGary]

OL of the future:

LT Bakh
LG Runyan
OC Hanson (unless they somehow resign Linsley to a reasonable deal, unlikely)
RG Patrick/Stepaniak/Taylor/Turner - may the best man win
RT Jenkins

Probably....

Bakh
Runyan
Patrick
Turner
Jenkins

Is a real possibility too.

[RashanGary]

If Bakh is ridiculously expensive, might have to cut Turner

Bakh
Runyan
Hanson
Patrick
Jenkins

In that case

[RashanGary]

Regardless of how it shakes out, Jenkins playing RT like he belonged and Runyan being serviceable as a rookie make the future look bright.

[texaspackerbacker]

It REALLY rubs me the wrong way whenever I see somebody's stupid projection of an O Line next year WITH Bakhtiari and WITHOUT Linsley. Don't ya'all have eyes? Can't you see Bakhtiari getting beat way too often, and Linsley being extremely solid? Can't ya'all see the lack of decent off tackle runs on Bakhtiari's side because of lack of blocking, while most of the good runs come up the middle through the C-G hole?

I certainly could see cutting Turner to retain Bakhtiari, although I wouldn't be very enthusiastic about that. No way in hell, though, should they let Linsley go to retain a clearly lesser player, Bakhtiari.

[HarveyWallbangers]

No, Bakh isn't routinely beat. Bakh was beat early last year, but since midseason last year, he's been back to his old self.

The Packers can't afford to pay Linsley top dollar. They have other options, and it's not a priority position.

[texaspackerbacker]

You see what you see, and I see what I see. The mobility of Aaron Rodgers mitigates the rush coming around that corner almost all the time, but it's still there. Not long ago, we had video of the Hail Mary Pass(es), and it was obvious there that first thing, Rodgers had to get away from Bakhtiari's man rushing in. Even in the early part of Sunday's game, I noticed it a couple of times. And there sure wasn't much rushing yardage to Bakhtiari's side - as usual, it was mostly over Linsley and Jenkins when he went back to Guard.

As for other options, I'd say the situation at RT tells us a lot about how easy or not it is to replace somebody at offensive tackle. And "top dollar" with Linsley undoubtedly would be way cheaper than "top dollar" with Bakhtiari.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Rodgers with PFF's top grade for the week. Bakh second.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2020/09/16/packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-was-pffs-highest-graded-player-in-nfl-in-week-1/


The Packers’ second highest-graded player was left tackle David Bakhtiari, who didn’t allow a single pressure over 45 pass-blocking snaps.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers with PFF's top grade for the week. Bakh second.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2020/09/16/packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-was-pffs-highest-graded-player-in-nfl-in-week-1/

Tex not liking Bakh is perplexing. It feels like trolling but I’m pretty sure he believes it

[texaspackerbacker]

Tex not liking Bakh is perplexing. It feels like trolling but I’m pretty sure he believes it

Watch the tapes.

[KYPack]

Watch the tapes.

I watch the tapes Tex. Must say your constant bleating about Bahk being a poor player is goofy and arbitrary.

Bahk is a solid player and one of the top 5 LT's in the game. He's been a first team All pro once and second team twice in his career. They don't hand out those awards to a so so Lt like you describe in your repeated posts slagging the guy. He has some unique skills and applies them well in executi
ng his assignments. He is extremely quick and is very good at anticipating the snap count. The only LT I've seen since I started watch NFL football that was quicker than Bahk off the snap count is HOFer Anthony Munoz. He is a solid run blocker and rarely gives up a bad run.

Also in this thread you rap Jenkins for his play on Sunday. Good God man, have you taken leave of your senses? This guy pitched a shut-out at RT then moved back to LG where he maintained his usual high level of play. Hey everybody likes to bitch, but there has to be some level of reality involved in the complaining. I think you've maintained a point of view so long, you think you have to defend it. Over and over again.

I'd turn your own admonition against you.

Record some games and grade both players.

You'll find you have anal oculosis.

That's a shitty way of looking at things.

[Joemailman]

I sense a Bakhtiari is overrated by the media pukes post coming...

[KYPack]

I sense a Bakhtiari is overrated by the media pukes post coming...

Yeah.

I know.

[bobblehead]

No, Bakh isn't routinely beat. Bakh was beat early last year, but since midseason last year, he's been back to his old self.

The Packers can't afford to pay Linsley top dollar. They have other options, and it's not a priority position.

I would even argue Bakh was BETTER after he figured it out. In the past he used the "holding" technique that never got called and was good at it, but he sacrificed leverage and position at times. After he started getting called for that hold which in the past they allowed he actually worked to gain better positioning and I think was better than in the past. Before he slowed down the rush. Now he is stonewalling it by not allowing guys to get "into" him.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

If anything, the Queens game is proof that you don’t draft a fat guy - defensive linemen and offensive linemen alike - til maybe the 5th round. Fat guys aren’t exotic playmakers.

However, if a fat guy proves that he can play, you try not to let him walk. Mike Sherman woulda found a way to retain both Wahle and Rivera.

[George Cumby]

I'm still pissed the Pack wasted that second round pick on Leeeeeeeeeroy Jenkins!

[George Cumby]

If anything, the Queens game is proof that you don’t draft a fat guy - defensive linemen and offensive linemen alike - til maybe the 5th round. Fat guys aren’t exotic playmakers.

However, if a fat guy proves that he can play, you try not to let him walk. Mike Sherman woulda found a way to retain both Wahle and Rivera.

Hey, dickwad, here's what you said about Leeeeeeeeeroy Jenkins! in his official draft thread:

"A fucking center?

Todd was the mother of incompetence but at least he wasn’t afraid of - and excelled at - drafting WRs in the 2nd.

German Shepherd had his choice between Metcalf, AJ Brown and Isabella, he took a fucking center!!! A fucking center! Fuck!!!!! I am pissed beyond fuck.

Orangutans are smarter than Brian Gutekunst."

Your game is weaker by the day.

Brandon's a way better Troll than you.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Hey, dickwad, here's what you said about Leeeeeeeeeroy Jenkins! in his official draft thread:

"A fucking center?

Todd was the mother of incompetence but at least he wasn’t afraid of - and excelled at - drafting WRs in the 2nd.

German Shepherd had his choice between Metcalf, AJ Brown and Isabella, he took a fucking center!!! A fucking center! Fuck!!!!! I am pissed beyond fuck.

Orangutans are smarter than Brian Gutekunst."

Your game is weaker by the day.

Brandon's a way better Troll than you.

McGinn gave the fucking center a bum grade last season. ‘Nuff said.

[George Cumby]

Hahahahahahahaha

[texaspackerbacker]

I watch the tapes Tex. Must say your constant bleating about Bahk being a poor player is goofy and arbitrary.

Bahk is a solid player and one of the top 5 LT's in the game. He's been a first team All pro once and second team twice in his career. They don't hand out those awards to a so so Lt like you describe in your repeated posts slagging the guy. He has some unique skills and applies them well in executi
ng his assignments. He is extremely quick and is very good at anticipating the snap count. The only LT I've seen since I started watch NFL football that was quicker than Bahk off the snap count is HOFer Anthony Munoz. He is a solid run blocker and rarely gives up a bad run.

Also in this thread you rap Jenkins for his play on Sunday. Good God man, have you taken leave of your senses? This guy pitched a shut-out at RT then moved back to LG where he maintained his usual high level of play. Hey everybody likes to bitch, but there has to be some level of reality involved in the complaining. I think you've maintained a point of view so long, you think you have to defend it. Over and over again.

I'd turn your own admonition against you.

Record some games and grade both players.

You'll find you have anal oculosis.

That's a shitty way of looking at things.

One of the things I least enjoy doing is saying bad things about Packer players - unlike some in here who spew shit like that all the time. Everything I see, though, current games, live action, replays, old films, whatever is Bakhtiari messing up - and most of the time, Rodgers escaping and making good things happen anyway, probably a large part of the reason Bakhtiari is considered so good. When is the last time you saw a decent run over Bakhtiari's block? If there are any, maybe somebody can dig up and post one or two. I will concede that there were a couple instances where Bakhtiari held off the pass rusher good, but there were also several, especially early in the game, where the outside guy ran right around him and forced our QB to adjust. I'm not saying the guy is a bad player, but I just think he is no better than a helluva lot of others playing the position, and if we can't get him for a pretty ordinary amount of money, then let somebody else have him.

On the other hand, how many times last year and in the first game this year did we get big holes and good runs right over Linsley and Jenkins? A lot. I rapped Jenkins? All I said is that he did great at LG, and not much good happened with him at RT. I really hope they keep him at LG for anything other than emergency use at tackle.

Yeah, Joe, I suppose the media pukes do overrate Bakhtiari, but mostly I'm focusing on the mania a lot of posters liking him. And I wouldn't say a word against re-signing Bakhtiari for whatever ridiculous amount it might take, except that people have had the gall to suggest sacrificing Aaron Jones or Linsley or both to keep Bakhtiari. Hopefully, that's just poster nonsense or media puke nonsense, and the team ain't that damn dumb.

"Mike Sherman woulda found a way to retain both Wahle and Rivera." yes, this, APB.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Bahk got won a starting job as a rookie, and I think he came out a year early. He's gotta be talented.

fact checkers not welcome

[Harlan Huckleby]

During the Packers' 'Family Night' inter squad scrimmage later in training camp, starting left tackle Bryan Bulaga succumbed to a torn ACL injury. Due to the injury and Bakhtiari's play during training camp, he was inserted as the starting left tackle in the Packers first preseason game against the Arizona Cardinals at Lambeau Field. Though they lost, it was later noted that one of the positives to take away was the steady play of the rookies.[14] He later went on to start every game at left tackle for the Packers, becoming the first rookie to do so in Green Bay since the start of the 16-game schedule employed by the NFL since 1978 and the only NFL rookie to start every game that season at left tackle in 2013.[15] He was a key contributor to Green Bay finishing seventh in the league for rushing (blocking for rookie running back Eddie Lacy) and sixth in passing for the first time since 2004.

Following his rookie season, Bakhtiari worked significantly on his strength and continued to fight for his job at left tackle, prompting the Packers to move Bryan Bulaga to right tackle and have Bakhtiari at left.

memory lane

[George Cumby]

Bakh was second team All-Pro in 2019.

Just some fake news hype, I guess.

[KYPack]

One of the things I least enjoy doing is saying bad things about Packer players - unlike some in here who spew shit like that all the time. Everything I see, though, current games, live action, replays, old films, whatever is Bakhtiari messing up - and most of the time, Rodgers escaping and making good things happen anyway, probably a large part of the reason Bakhtiari is considered so good. When is the last time you saw a decent run over Bakhtiari's block? If there are any, maybe somebody can dig up and post one or two. I will concede that there were a couple instances where Bakhtiari held off the pass rusher good, but there were also several, especially early in the game, where the outside guy ran right around him and forced our QB to adjust. I'm not saying the guy is a bad player, but I just think he is no better than a helluva lot of others playing the position, and if we can't get him for a pretty ordinary amount of money, then let somebody else have him.

On the other hand, how many times last year and in the first game this year did we get big holes and good runs right over Linsley and Jenkins? A lot. I rapped Jenkins? All I said is that he did great at LG, and not much good happened with him at RT. I really hope they keep him at LG for anything other than emergency use at tackle.

Yeah, Joe, I suppose the media pukes do overrate Bakhtiari, but mostly I'm focusing on the mania a lot of posters liking him. And I wouldn't say a word against re-signing Bakhtiari for whatever ridiculous amount it might take, except that people have had the gall to suggest sacrificing Aaron Jones or Linsley or both to keep Bakhtiari. Hopefully, that's just poster nonsense or media puke nonsense, and the team ain't that damn dumb.

"Mike Sherman woulda found a way to retain both Wahle and Rivera." yes, this, APB.

Then why in the hell are you saying bad things about our good players?

An All Pro left tackle and a solid LG who can play two positions? What in the hell is your problem with that?

Notice you are tag teaming with Tank. He is a well known dip shit, fan boy type.

I thought you had your shit wrapped a lot tighter than that.

There are many teams that would love to have two players like Bahk and Jenkins.

And yes, it will be difficult to keep that line together. Every team in the league faces those challenges. Tennessee had the best OLine in the NFL. They lost their marquee RT, cause you can't keep 5 top lineman together.

Linsley is our top OLineman? Are you out of your wits? He's a good hand, but Gute isn't formulating his strategy to retain a center. Ask your buddy Tank. Guess that would be a fucking center. You have to make changes and sacrifices when you move your roster forward. We can't keep 'em all, ya know.

You used to be one of the most together posters on the forum.

Now you are talikin like a man with a paper asshole.

I'd urge you to do what you advise.

Watch the game and tell me your criticisms are valid.

You say Jenkins and Bahk are bums?

You are totally fulla shit.

[texaspackerbacker]

I repeat, I never said one bad word about Jenkins. I think he will be a legitimate all pro - he's on the way to that already. Other than Bakhtiari, I haven't been overtly negative about a Packer since B.J. Raji or Seneca Wallace, and that includes Burks, Hundley, and the rest of them that so many in here like to shit on. I'm not real thrilled about Kevin King, but I'm still hopeful the hype about him turns out to be justified.

I haven't heard a word of counter to the claim that we don't have success running over Bakhtiari, and that practically all our decent run plays go over Linsley and Jenkins.

I appreciate the flowery words hahahaha about me. I've always had respect for you too. And I will allow for the fact that my view is distinctly a minority view in here, but with all due respect, I think ya'all have a severely inflated view of Bakhtiari. Call it doubling down if you like, but at the risk of upsetting ya'all further, I'd say that LT or OT in general, at least on the Packers with Aaron Rodgers' mobility and accuracy, are not all that important positions in the passing game. For a lot of years, I've seen Rodgers have to elude a mad rush - to a much worse extent than other QBs, escape, and still make plays. I hate to think how Bakhtiari would look if we had somebody like Boyle back there, or even somebody like Brady or Cousins.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Bahk got won a starting job as a rookie, and I think he came out a year early. He's gotta be talented.

fact checkers not welcome

We need you back in FYI, yo!

[Patler]

I haven't heard a word of counter to the claim that we don't have success running over Bakhtiari, and that practically all our decent run plays go over Linsley and Jenkins.


Here you go Tex: :)


ESPN has a new metric called run block win rate, ranking offensive tackles in the NFL for their success in run blocking. Last season, Bakhtiari ranked second in the NFL among all tackles with a run block win rate of 79.2 percent. Only Carolina Panthers tackle Taylor Moton (81.1 percent) ranked higher.

[Patler]

Here's a link to how ESPN performs their calculation:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29813062/introducing-new-nfl-run-blocking-run-stopping-stats-how-run-block-win-rate-run-stop-win-rate-work

[texaspackerbacker]

Yeah right - because ESPN says so huh? Why does that #2 ranking not show up in performance on the field/successful runs to his side?

[Patler]

Yeah right - because ESPN says so huh? Why does that #2 ranking not show up in performance on the field/successful runs to his side?

Did you even read the article I linked, explaining how the calculation is performed? The calculation in and of itself answers your question. All based on the Next Gen stuff, actual analysis of every player on every play, who did what, regardless of where the play went. Everyone has a responsibility on every play, and this evaluates that.

[Patler]

Face it Tex, you are flat out wrong about Bakhtiari. No "ifs" , "ands" or "buts" about it. Coaches disagree with you. Scouts disagree with you. Players disagree with you. Reporters disagree with you. News services disagree with you. Services specializing in stats generation, who are successful only as a result of their accuracy, disagree with you. Fans disagree with you.

In short, you are a lone wolf in your detest of David Bakhtiari's performance.

Unless you can explain why your evaluation should be accepted over those of virtually everyone else, including those of people more skilled and accomplished than any of us on here, and those of people and organizations having evaluation tools of the highest caliber, I can not give credence to your comments about Bakhtiari.

Why do you not see his success, you ask? Because you will not allow yourself to see it. You are closed minded about it.

You are wrong.

[bobblehead]

Here you go Tex: :)
Quote Originally Posted by texaspackerbacker View Post
I haven't heard a word of counter to the claim that we don't have success running over Bakhtiari, and that practically all our decent run plays go over Linsley and Jenkins.
Here you go Tex:

ESPN has a new metric called run block win rate, ranking offensive tackles in the NFL for their success in run blocking. Last season, Bakhtiari ranked second in the NFL among all tackles with a run block win rate of 79.2 percent. Only Carolina Panthers tackle Taylor Moton (81.1 percent) ranked higher.

Had to do a funky copy paste to get full context, but you get the gist. Remember when I used to say Bakh was barely top 10 pass blocking but his superior run blocking for a LT put him over the top? Funny how things come full circle. I personally never "follow the popular story" Back then people would say stupid shit like "bakh is a wall, but his run blocking is a little weak" It became the popular thing to say with no grounds in reality.

Right now, Me, the guy who argued Bakh was over rated is going to say this. Taking away the "legal hold" has made him elite. He works much harder for position and arm extension at this point and he is the same run blocker he always was. Most of Jones long runs last year went over LT, not right side. Before I thought he was solid in pass, now he is top 3ish.

[bobblehead]

Here's a link to how ESPN performs their calculation:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29813062/introducing-new-nfl-run-blocking-run-stopping-stats-how-run-block-win-rate-run-stop-win-rate-work

I like it. Bulaga was top 20 and Bakh was number 2. MM didn't like to run.

Also noted that Vince Biegal was #8 edge defender.

[bobblehead]

Yeah right - because ESPN says so huh? Why does that #2 ranking not show up in performance on the field/successful runs to his side?

Let me put it to you a different way tex. This season I want you to note the time in the game that Bakh failed in his assignment then post it here. I will go back and watch for it. I could go back last year and point out 3 blocks DB made to spring Jones on 25+ yard runs. There were more, but I can recall 3 that I said "wow, Bakh crushed that dude"

[George Cumby]

Face it Tex, you are flat out wrong about Bakhtiari. No "ifs" , "ands" or "buts" about it. Coaches disagree with you. Scouts disagree with you. Players disagree with you. Reporters disagree with you. News services disagree with you. Services specializing in stats generation, who are successful only as a result of their accuracy, disagree with you. Fans disagree with you.

In short, you are a lone wolf in your detest of David Bakhtiari's performance.

Unless you can explain why your evaluation should be accepted over those of virtually everyone else, including those of people more skilled and accomplished than any of us on here, and those of people and organizations having evaluation tools of the highest caliber, I can not give credence to your comments about Bakhtiari.

Why do you not see his success, you ask? Because you will not allow yourself to see it. You are closed minded about it.

You are wrong.

Patlerized.

[RashanGary]

Watching Orlando Brown jr on film session. Was mentioning the star OL he studies and he put Bakhtiari in the list of guys he learns from. This isn't a media puke, it's a young up and coming OL who models some of his gsme after a guy he considers to be a stud, bahk.

What say you, tex?

[RashanGary]

Orlando brown was a really cool film session guy. He's 6’8” with a 7’ wing span. He tested poorly at combine, but really, it takes time to really fill in A frame that big.

Anyway, with his uncommon length and size he does things different. He's a waist bender, something guys typically fall on their face doing. But he's so big, he can bend that way and doesbt have to really thrust forward and lose balance. He just bends, making his length even longer and gets his hands on guys and is really good at balance in that position. He says he works all offseason on his balance because it's such a part of his unusual style.

Anyway, it's cool to see unusual body types come up with their own style and game. Does it different, but does it well. Uses his strengths.

[Guiness]

memory lane

I remember that well, it was a dark time. Consecutive first round selections Bulaga and Sherrod were both out and looking like bad choices. Despite ending up on IR two consecutive seasons Bulaga would come around and have a good career; Sherrod, not so much.

[RashanGary]

I love watching the big guys on nfl film session. There's endless details I don't think about, so I learn a lot. But then there are little human elements. As for example.... OL love to run block. When I supervised a big crew, I learned real quick, A. My success depends on my team. Even though I'm country tough and can do the work of two decent people or three mediocre ones, with a team of 20, I need my guys to succeed. And B. The best plan for the day is the plan my guys believe in. You can run the lesser plan and get greater results when the guys are bought in.

Which brings me to lafleur. Subtly, he empowers the whole team by leaning on that run game. Those 5 big guys pass block better when theyre excited to play and feel important. We can say all day, people should be at 100 all the time and do what they're told, but the reality is, a lot of people perform better when they feel engaged, empowered and important. Lafleur brings out the best in all 11 with his ”run the ball” mentality!

That's not an analytics thing. That's a down to earth, people thing

[texaspackerbacker]

Let me put it to you a different way tex. This season I want you to note the time in the game that Bakh failed in his assignment then post it here. I will go back and watch for it. I could go back last year and point out 3 blocks DB made to spring Jones on 25+ yard runs. There were more, but I can recall 3 that I said "wow, Bakh crushed that dude"

I will try to do that Sunday.

I watched every play of every game last year, and I sure don't recall those "3 blocks DB made to spring Jones on 25+ yard runs". Almost all his big runs were through the Center/Guard hole, to my recollection. He couldn't have had too many more than 3 runs of 25+, so it shouldn't be that hard to at least find a play by play saying where the runs were.

For the record, I don't "detest" the guy. I just don't think he is near as good as a lot of ya'all do.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Orlando brown was a really cool film session guy. He's 6’8” with a 7’ wing span. He tested poorly at combine, but really, it takes time to really fill in A frame that big.

That's the guy who got injured by a referee flag hitting him in the eye

[HarveyWallbangers]

Yeah right - because ESPN says so huh? Why does that #2 ranking not show up in performance on the field/successful runs to his side?

You ask for one source to back up his claim. He provides it. You say the source isn't credible. Convenient. :)

[HarveyWallbangers]

Jones had three plays of 40+ yards last year (BTW, it seemed like more):

Against Minnesota he ran for a late 56 yard TD off left tackle.
Against Washington he ran for a 42 yard run up the middle. However, the line had stunted to the right, so he actually ran behind Bakh's block. Bakh was actually to the right of Jones as he went by.
Against Kansas City he took a screen to the left for a late 67 yard TD. Bakh's assignment was to get out in space and find somebody--which he did.

[RashanGary]

Jones had three plays of 40+ yards last year (BTW, it seemed like more):

Against Minnesota he ran for a late 56 yard TD off left tackle.
Against Washington he ran for a 42 yard run up the middle. However, the line had stunted to the right, so he actually ran behind Bakh's block. Bakh was actually to the right of Jones as he went by.
Against Kansas City he took a screen to the left for a late 67 yard TD. Bakh's assignment was to get out in space and find somebody--which he did.

That doesn't count cuz tex doesn't remember it :lol:

[Sparkey]

So, guessing the line is Bahk, Jenkins, Linsley, Patrick, Turner ?

[RashanGary]

So, guessing the line is Bahk, Jenkins, Linsley, Patrick, Turner ?

I think I'd Roll a six sided dice from what I know of the situation is that there is too much unknown

How healthy is Turner?
How healthy is Patrick?
How much do the Packers see Jenkins as the RT of the future?
How good do they even feel about Turner at RT?
How scared are they to play the rookie if they have an option not to?

Bakh/Jenkins/Lindsley/Patrick/Wagner
Bakh/Jenkins/Lindsley/Turner/Wagner
Bakh/Patrick/Lindsley/Turner/Jenkins
Bakh/Patrick/Lindsley/Runyan/Jenkins
Bakh/Jenkins/Lindsley/Runyan/Wagner
Bakh/Runyan/Lindley/Turner/Jenkins

I have no clue!

[texaspackerbacker]

After re-watching the game (see my post in the Revenge Tour thread), I absolutely don't want Jenkins moved away from LG. Wagner did well at RT too, and should stay there. Any of the three - Turner, Patrick, or Runyon at RG should be ok also.

[Sparkey]

Bahk,Jenkins,Kinsley center/left.

If Runyan starts at rg, then start Wagner next too him. That experience matters with a rookie to his left.

[RashanGary]

Bahk,Jenkins,Kinsley center/left.

If Runyan starts at rg, then start Wagner next too him. That experience matters with a rookie to his left.

The packers might want to make Jenkins the RT of the future. Slightly harder spot to fill and if they think he’s legit there, why not?

[bobblehead]

I will try to do that Sunday.

I watched every play of every game last year, and I sure don't recall those "3 blocks DB made to spring Jones on 25+ yard runs". Almost all his big runs were through the Center/Guard hole, to my recollection. He couldn't have had too many more than 3 runs of 25+, so it shouldn't be that hard to at least find a play by play saying where the runs were.

For the record, I don't "detest" the guy. I just don't think he is near as good as a lot of ya'all do.

I went and watched all his TD runs. 3 I can say Bakh threw a great block and was a big part of the reason he sprung. He had a couple other nice blocks on long runs that weren't TDs, but as I said last year, Jones is a better inside ZBS runner than outside and you are correct that many of his good runs went up the gut. I gained even more respect for Jenkins in watching them though. We have the RT for the next decade on the roster kids. We won't even remember Bill Bulaga's name by seasons end.

[bobblehead]

After re-watching the game (see my post in the Revenge Tour thread), I absolutely don't want Jenkins moved away from LG. Wagner did well at RT too, and should stay there. Any of the three - Turner, Patrick, or Runyon at RG should be ok also.

Jenkins is great at LG, but he is so talented he needs to play tackle. Especially if you don't have an elite tackle starting on the right side right now.

[texaspackerbacker]

You're talking like RT is the more important position of the two. With Aaron Rodgers at QB, it absolutely is not. Rodgers has always eluded the outside rush consistently. The Guard positions also are more important in the running game.

We've had this whole discussion about Bakhtiari, and after watching game film more closely, I walked back my criticism of him a little bit, but what really stood out in what I saw was the number of times Bakhtiari made his block, and the runs got stuffed anyway. I didn't specifically watch the right side, but I assume the same tackle kick out block is most often used there - and we don't often gain much running off tackle right either. Over Guard and Center is where most of the success has been.

[Joemailman]

The packers might want to make Jenkins the RT of the future. Slightly harder spot to fill and if they think he’s legit there, why not?

Only of you feel he'll be elite there. You don't want to take a player from a position where he's elite and move him to a position where he's merely above average.

[RashanGary]

Only of you feel he'll be elite there. You don't want to take a player from a position where he's elite and move him to a position where he's merely above average.

An above average RT makes about the same as a top 3 guard. Tackles are just harder to find. Big guys are rare. Big guys who move really well are the rarest. I think I'd rather lock the tackle spots down and count on Gute to be able to find guards in the 3rd-5th rounds

[KYPack]

Jenkins is a solid talent. He is near elite at LG right now. But a solid RT with sound pass blocking skills is always the way to go. Establishing bookend Tackles is the preference. But keeping a tackle tandem is almost impossible. Tennessee invested two high draft picks and formed the NFLs best Oline with twin T's Taylor Lewan and Jack Conklin. They lost Conklin to FA in the off-season when he signed with Cleveland. With Jenkins still on his rookie deal, I say move him to RT. Having solid bookends is the goal of any NFL team. We probably can't move Jenkins this season bc of our injury situation. But I think 2021 will see Jenkins moved to RT.

[Joemailman]

I get the RT over G argument. But I've always liked the idea of having one side of your offensive line being truly dominant. Guys you can run behind even they know you're going to run. Always was impressed what the Raiders could do behind Shell and Upshaw. Yeah, I'm that old.

[RashanGary]

I get the RT over G argument. But I've always liked the idea of having one side of your offensive line being truly dominant. Guys you can run behind even they know you're going to run. Always was impressed what the Raiders could do behind Shell and Upshaw. Yeah, I'm that old.

I see this too! Rodgers is really good at knowing the strength of his line. When bakh and Baluga were young, Sutton/lindsleytretter/Lang were beasts. AR would Step forward, then back..... Witb bakh and bulaga as the strength, hed sit back a little longer and avoid stepping up as much. If the left side was inpenetrable, hed find a way to count on that and put his focus on dodging the right side uncertainty. Rodgers has enough pocket presence to play with different styles of OL, seamlessly. A star left side would be interesting to see how AR uses that to his pocket creativity advantage

[RashanGary]

If they can make a stud interior, Rodgers definitely knows how to make the tackles job easier.... I'd be ok either way, but finding a servicable tackle is hard so I'd lean a touch that way.

[Bretsky]

OL holding up fine

[RashanGary]

OL holding up fine

Yep! Get Turner healthy, then Lindsey and hopefully 69 never goes down!

But we had some cupcake games for the OL. It’s about to get real next week. Hopefully we’re close to 100%. I’d rather see Wagner at tackle than Turner.

Bakh/Jenkins/(Patrick or Lindsey)/Turner/Wagner

I like it like that.

[George Cumby]

Bakh owned his man on Jones' third td.

[run pMc]

Only of you feel he'll be elite there. You don't want to take a player from a position where he's elite and move him to a position where he's merely above average.

Agree. You put Jenkins next to Bahk and your left side is rock solid. Good-to-great OTs are hard to find but if Jenkins is the next Steve Hutchinson you keep him at G and get by with the Wagner-Turner-Overdrive takin care of business on the right for now. I was banging the drum that they needed to draft a tackle (WR too ugh) and thought they took Runyan as a backup/swing tackle until all the guard talk started up. Maybe Nijman can figure it out, but their tackle situation is not great looking ahead. That's especially true if Bahk doesn't get a new contract with GB.

[bobblehead]

You're talking like RT is the more important position of the two. With Aaron Rodgers at QB, it absolutely is not. Rodgers has always eluded the outside rush consistently. The Guard positions also are more important in the running game.

We've had this whole discussion about Bakhtiari, and after watching game film more closely, I walked back my criticism of him a little bit, but what really stood out in what I saw was the number of times Bakhtiari made his block, and the runs got stuffed anyway. I didn't specifically watch the right side, but I assume the same tackle kick out block is most often used there - and we don't often gain much running off tackle right either. Over Guard and Center is where most of the success has been.

I'll grant you this. In the Flower system, having Bakh cut down pursuit, and Jenkins at LG, Jones busted a big one left/inside. I'm not against having Jenkins at LG as long as we are solid at RT. Wagner seems to be doing the job.

[bobblehead]

Jenkins is a solid talent. He is near elite at LG right now. But a solid RT with sound pass blocking skills is always the way to go. Establishing bookend Tackles is the preference. But keeping a tackle tandem is almost impossible. Tennessee invested two high draft picks and formed the NFLs best Oline with twin T's Taylor Lewan and Jack Conklin. They lost Conklin to FA in the off-season when he signed with Cleveland. With Jenkins still on his rookie deal, I say move him to RT. Having solid bookends is the goal of any NFL team. We probably can't move Jenkins this season bc of our injury situation. But I think 2021 will see Jenkins moved to RT.

Yea, this.

[bobblehead]

Agree. You put Jenkins next to Bahk and your left side is rock solid. Good-to-great OTs are hard to find but if Jenkins is the next Steve Hutchinson you keep him at G and get by with the Wagner-Turner-Overdrive takin care of business on the right for now. I was banging the drum that they needed to draft a tackle (WR too ugh) and thought they took Runyan as a backup/swing tackle until all the guard talk started up. Maybe Nijman can figure it out, but their tackle situation is not great looking ahead. That's especially true if Bahk doesn't get a new contract with GB.

No team has a great looking Tackle situation if a starter falls. Just the nature of the beast. I'm hoping for Nijman, but without preseason I have nothing to go on other than his athletic gifts and size. I need to see him play again....but not yet!!

[texaspackerbacker]

I'll grant you this. In the Flower system, having Bakh cut down pursuit, and Jenkins at LG, Jones busted a big one left/inside. I'm not against having Jenkins at LG as long as we are solid at RT. Wagner seems to be doing the job.

Bakhtiari wasn't even part of the play on the 75 yard run. I don't say this to knock ya'all's sacred cow, Bakhtiari, because he did a good job on several kick out blocks, but the hole was opened and Jones 10 or 15 yards down field so quick that there really wasn't any pursuit to be cut off on that play.

And yes, Wagner appears to be doing the job at RT. I strongly disagree with the people who say finding a serviceable OT is difficult - on any team, but especially on a team with a QB like Aaron Rodgers who is so good at eluding the pass rush.

And I will join runMc in agreeing with Joe about not rocking the boat and moving Jenkins from LG. He and Linsley (not so much he and Bakhtiari) are producing the Packers' best running plays. I wouldn't say Jenkins did bad in his brief time at RT, but nothing much happened, and Wagner seems to be just as good there. I say again, in the Packer offense especially, Guard is more important than Tackle.

[KYPack]

Bakhtiari wasn't even part of the play on the 75 yard run. I don't say this to knock ya'all's sacred cow, Bakhtiari, because he did a good job on several kick out blocks, but the hole was opened and Jones 10 or 15 yards down field so quick that there really wasn't any pursuit to be cut off on that play.

And yes, Wagner appears to be doing the job at RT. I strongly disagree with the people who say finding a serviceable OT is difficult - on any team, but especially on a team with a QB like Aaron Rodgers who is so good at eluding the pass rush.

And I will join runMc in agreeing with Joe about not rocking the boat and moving Jenkins from LG. He and Linsley (not so much he and Bakhtiari) are producing the Packers' best running plays. I wouldn't say Jenkins did bad in his brief time at RT, but nothing much happened, and Wagner seems to be just as good there. I say again, in the Packer offense especially, Guard is more important than Tackle.

Tex, be careful. You may be suffering from a relapse of your "Anti-Bakhtiari" disease. Keep it up and you may have to go back to re-hab.

[Joemailman]

Through 2 games the Packers have played extensively 2 guys at RT (Jenkins, Wagner), 3 guys at RG (Patrick, Taylor, Runyan), 2 at C (Linsley, Patrick), 2 at LG (Patrick, Jenkins), and 1 at LT (Bakhtiari). With all that shuffling, they've passed for almost 600 yards, run for more than 400, scored 9 TD's and allowed 1 sack.

A Mea Culpa: When Lafleur hired Stenavich as O-Line coach, I had some concerns he had made a "system" pick who might not have the experience needed for the position. Obviously what the offensive line coaches have done is beyond impressive.