Official Week 2 Studs and Duds

[George Cumby]

I didn't see the game, but sounded like a solid shellacking.

Based on the Box Score:

Rodgers
Jones

Kirksey


Discuss, please.

[Joemailman]

Winners

Aaron Freakin' Jones - 236 total yards and 3 TD's.
Aaron Rodgers - Not an eye-popping performance like last week. However, solid despite some drops and no turnovers.
Rashan Gary - Disruptive and 1.5 sacks to show for it.
Chandon Sullivan - Pick 6 at a time offense was struggling a bit.
Matt LaFleur - He is brilliantly utilizing all his offensive weapons.

Losers

Jace Sternberger - Catch that ball son.
Defensive Intensity - Looked like they were sleepwalking early. I know they turned it around, but you have to come ready to play.

[texaspackerbacker]

A bunch of studs: Rodgers and Jones, of course, Jamal Williams too, Jenkins on O, Alexander, Sullivan, Gary on D.

More than decent and/or better than most people expected, but not quite up to stud level: Rick Wagner, Tonyan, Lazard, and MVS - way more good than bad, and LaFleur's coaching - not taking his foot off the gas and again subordinating his ego to doing what worked on O, Z. Smith, whoever was covering Hockenson - I think Amos, Kevin King and Savage for disappearing/not having their name called - generally a good thing for a DB, LaFleur for chewing out and firing up the D at half time - if we belief the reporterette who said he did that, and Pettine (who I was about ready to jump on the "fire him" bandwagon at one point) for adjusting, getting the Northwestern pigs out of the D Line most of the time in the second half and going zone on pass D for a lot of plays.

Slightly duddish: Preston Smith, Lucas Patrick

Very duddish: Sternberger (I'm thinking that might be a perpetual condition) and Kirksey - who is making the accomplishments of Martinez in past years look impressive in comparison

[Harlan Huckleby]

Winners

Aaron Freakin' Jones - 236 total yards and 3 TD's.

I never thought of Jones as being much of a pass catcher. but he had two nice snags today.

[jklowan]

Rashan Gary :)

[wootah]

Studs:
https://i.imgur.com/sJSgVC1.png
https://i.imgur.com/f1pdQVH.png

[Tony Oday]

AJ is a great threat and watching Dillion wow that boy can hammer people.

Gary with Smith X2 is AMAZING

[Fritz]

I have not been able to see either game.

How are the rookies looking? Dillon looking good? Is he quick enough? How about the tight end, Daguerrotype or whatever his name is? And who the hell did they draft after that? Three OL in a row, right - and Runyan is playing?

[Tony Oday]

I have not been able to see either game.

How are the rookies looking? Dillon looking good? Is he quick enough? How about the tight end, Daguerrotype or whatever his name is? And who the hell did they draft after that? Three OL in a row, right - and Runyan is playing?

Dillon is going to be a player, has power and some speed. He would be terrifying in the 4thQ in the winter, might kill a LB ;) Runyan has played and I have not heard his name. The TEs in general have drops and it is getting annoying.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I have not been able to see either game.

How are the rookies looking? Dillon looking good? Is he quick enough? How about the tight end, Daguerrotype or whatever his name is? And who the hell did they draft after that? Three OL in a row, right - and Runyan is playing?

Dillon looks pretty good in his limited reps. He had some power runs in college, but I actually thought he played softer than his size at times. He's showing burst and power in his limited reps.

I really liked what Deguara brought to the table in the first game. He blocks like a FB, but has TE hands and speed out of the backfield. He didn't play in the second game.

[Patler]

Runyan has done OK, too, in limited opportunities.

Daguara was the most impressive to me, playing 24 snaps (31%) in a complicated offense, without the benefit of a typical off season, having had no preseason games and only an abbreviated training camp. Considering there were three other TEs active for the game, I thought this showed an unusual amount of confidence by the coaches, for his first game.

[Bossman641]

I judge DB's like I judge the OL, if they go unnoticed it's a good thing. By that token, both Alexander and King had good games. On the flip side, the safeties haven't looked good in either game. Kirksey also hadn't flashed at all.

[GB-Brandon]

I judge DB's like I judge the OL, if they go unnoticed it's a good thing. By that token, both Alexander and King had good games. On the flip side, the safeties haven't looked good in either game. Kirksey also hadn't flashed at all.

Your pretty spot on with that. Especially the safeties. “Per PfF Season Grade”

Adrian Amos 45.5 “F”
Darnell Savage 44.2 “F”

This is a total fail so far with what the Packers have invested. It’s a top 20 defense at best.

Even more reason to make offense more explosive!!

[GB-Brandon]

Christian Kirksey PFF season grade “30.1”

It’s a failed signing!!!!!!

[GB-Brandon]

The middle of this defense is pathetic and weak. This has been going on for years. We have the wrong people making the decisions at the top.

Even more proof of what Rodgers has to overcome.

[texaspackerbacker]

A lot of the PFF numbers seem like bullshit, but the Kirksey number is right there in tune with what is observable.

What Bossman said above about DBs is very true - silence about them is golden. LBs, however, are different. If they don't get mentioned, they probably aren't doing their job.

[George Cumby]

Lots of talk about Kirksey stinking it up.

Like I said, I didn't see the game.

He led the team with 12 tackles.

What gives?

[GB-Brandon]

A lot of the PFF numbers seem like bullshit, but the Kirksey number is right there in tune with what is observable.

What Bossman said above about DBs is very true - silence about them is golden. LBs, however, are different. If they don't get mentioned, they probably aren't doing their job.

You sound like my friend who is a Seahawks fan who is in denial about their pass rush after giving up an average of 485 yards a game. People love to flaunt the PFF numbers when there good but try to say there bullshit when there bad. Typical stuff.

Savage was “All Rookie PFF” last year and Amos has always scored in the top end of safeties so this isn’t some conspiracy directed towards the Packers!!

[Joemailman]

Lots of talk about Kirksey stinking it up.

Like I said, I didn't see the game.

He led the team with 12 tackles.

What gives?

He's had the tackles so far, (3rd on the NFL) but not impact plays. In his defenae, he's not playing behind the stoutest defensive line in the NFL. He would probably be helped immensely by the return of Kenny Clark.

[GB-Brandon]

Kirksey was supposed to be this big upgrade in coverage. Thus far he has been a major disappointment.

[GB-Brandon]

He's had the tackles so far, (3rd on the NFL) but not impact plays. In his defenae, he's not playing behind the stoutest defensive line in the NFL. He would probably be helped immensely by the return of Kenny Clark.

He didn’t grade out well either when Clark was playing though.

[GB-Brandon]

Kirksey really hasn’t graded out decent since 2016. He was a long shot to begin with.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I know he had some big holes to run through, but RG's guy (Jamaal Williams) looked good. He actually looked like he had some burst. He really is a great backup.

[Joemailman]

Packers top 5 offensive and defensive grades from PFF vs, Lions.


Top 5 Offensive Grades
1. C Corey Linsley, 90.2
2. QB Aaron Rodgers, 89.4
3. RB Aaron Jones 78.1
4. LT David Bakhtiari, 77.3
5. TE Marcedes Lewis, 74.0

Top 5 Defensive Grades
1. CB Jaire Alexander, 90.1
2. CB Chandon Sullivan, 80.9
3. S Will Redmond, 75.9
4. CB Kevin King, 73.8
5. LB Krys Barnes, 72.1


Linsley has the highest run-blocking grade among NFL centers and hasn’t allowed a single pressure over 147 total snaps through two games.

Like Linsley, Alexander is the highest-graded cornerback through two games.

Quarterback Aaron Rodgers was the highest-graded quarterback in Week 2 and has the highest overall grade among quarterbacks through two games. Rodgers didn’t have outstanding final numbers against the Lions but he was hurt by four drops.

[Harlan Huckleby]

nm

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Kirksey was supposed to be this big upgrade in coverage. Thus far he has been a major disappointment.

Kirksey ain’t Urlacher in coverage, but he’s still an upgrade over Martinez. Almost had a pick but Stafford’s cannon blazed through Kirk’s hands faster than the speed of fuck. I think 87 of the Lions caught it. 87 is Cypress Hill, right?

Martinez was so godawful in coverage, he made Allison Geronimo look like Randy Moss in practice.

[Vincenzo]

The middle of this defense is pathetic and weak. This has been going on for years. We have the wrong people making the decisions at the top.

Even more proof of what Rodgers has to overcome.
Yes we scored 85 points in 2 games, but against who? The answer is we scored that many points against 2 garbage football teams. Next week at Saints things could look very different but from what I saw last night vs. Vegas, the Saints don’t look that hot either.
Fact is, it’s just a matter of time before the Packer D gets exposed.

[RashanGary]

Packers #1 in total yards on offense. #10 total yards on defense.

Playing cousins, Stamford, Brees, Ryan, Brady and Watson to start the season, I doubt their total defense yards gonna look good early. But the run game, the great ball security offense and the turnover creating defense should lean to a lot of dubs even if they’re not top 5 in yards on defense.

[GB-Brandon]

Yes we scored 85 points in 2 games, but against who? The answer is we scored that many points against 2 garbage football teams. Next week at Saints things could look very different but from what I saw last night vs. Vegas, the Saints don’t look that hot either.
Fact is, it’s just a matter of time before the Packer D gets exposed.

I agree. The Packers do have a history of being “Perennial Front Runners” against poor competition and then get smacked in the mouth by better teams. We have seen this movie before many times.

If you look at the PFF grades nobody outside Adams and Jones at the skilled spots really has a passable grade. We really need that third guy whether it be a TE or WR.

[GB-Brandon]

Yes we scored 85 points in 2 games, but against who? The answer is we scored that many points against 2 garbage football teams. Next week at Saints things could look very different but from what I saw last night vs. Vegas, the Saints don’t look that hot either.
Fact is, it’s just a matter of time before the Packer D gets exposed.

And Yes, the Packer defense will most certainly get exposed at some point. They just aren’t that good overall.

[GB-Brandon]

Kirksey ain’t Urlacher in coverage, but he’s still an upgrade over Martinez. Almost had a pick but Stafford’s cannon blazed through Kirk’s hands faster than the speed of fuck. I think 87 of the Lions caught it. 87 is Cypress Hill, right?

Martinez was so godawful in coverage, he made Allison Geronimo look like Randy Moss in practice.

2020 PFF season grade thus far:

Blake Martinez 87.4
C. Kirksey 30.1

I don’t think there is anything to compare thus far.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

2020 PFF season grade thus far:

Blake Martinez 87.4
C. Kirksey 30.1

I don’t think there is anything to compare thus far.

Aren’t the G-Men 0-2? I watched about 5 seconds of Giants-Bares and didn’t notice Martinez.

I do, however, notice that the middle of the field, passing-wise, ain’t being exposed and exploited for huge chunks of yards with Kirksey roaming the middle. Martinez, while donning the Green and Gold, lacked speed to cover anyone Mano-a-Mano and he had absolutely zero awareness playing zone coverages.

[GB-Brandon]

Aren’t the G-Men 0-2? I watched about 5 seconds of Giants-Bares and didn’t notice Martinez.

I do, however, notice that the middle of the field, passing-wise, ain’t being exposed and exploited for huge chunks of yards with Kirksey roaming the middle. Martinez, while donning the Green and Gold, lacked speed to cover anyone Mano-a-Mano and he had absolutely zero awareness playing zone coverages.

I’m not sure you can put the Giants 0-2 record directly on Martinez. I did watch him against Pitt and he showed some speed identifying a screen play and played a great game overall.

Martinez threw some Jabs at Pettine on the way out and it’s just more proof of what’s going on IMO.

Kirksey hasn’t shown anything thus far. He can’t get off blocks. He is missing assignments and he isn’t what they thought he would be overall in coverage which is indicative of his rating so far.

[RashanGary]

I know he had some big holes to run through, but RG's guy (Jamaal Williams) looked good. He actually looked like he had some burst. He really is a great backup.

Solid. It’s the pass pro and screens and route running more than being a pure runner. But 12 loves playing with guys he can trust and I think Williams brings a lot of consistency and assignment responsibility to the table.

[texaspackerbacker]

The only thing bad about Martinez was he wanted too much money; It's beginning to look like the only thing good about Kirksey is we got him cheap. I don't trust those PFF numbers when I don't agree with him, so I suppose I shouldn't put too much credence by them when I do agree, but 87 to 30 is a pretty big gap. I had high hopes for Kirksey coming in - uber-athletic supposedly, better than he played last season due to injury supposedly, but he has been a colossal disappointment so far.

[bobblehead]

Yes we scored 85 points in 2 games, but against who? The answer is we scored that many points against 2 garbage football teams. Next week at Saints things could look very different but from what I saw last night vs. Vegas, the Saints don’t look that hot either.
Fact is, it’s just a matter of time before the Packer D gets exposed.

Fact is its the NFL and no one is dominant enough to not look bad at times. Saints hit a juggernaut situation with opening of a new stadium and all. It was a huge game for Raiders and they played like it.

I'm worried that the Saints, coming off that game will be really motivated to not fall to 1-2.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I’m not sure you can put the Giants 0-2 record directly on Martinez. I did watch him against Pitt and he showed some speed identifying a screen play and played a great game overall.

Martinez threw some Jabs at Pettine on the way out and it’s just more proof of what’s going on IMO.

Kirksey hasn’t shown anything thus far. He can’t get off blocks. He is missing assignments and he isn’t what they thought he would be overall in coverage which is indicative of his rating so far.

I’m too lazy to fact check, but pretty confident all of the passing TDs the Packers have allowed thus far this season are the fuck ups of the DBs. I only count Kirksey giving up a one big passing play over the middle - the one that Cypress Hill caught.

Like I said, Kirksey is no Urlacher but he’s an upgrade over Martinez, especially in coverage. The numbers don’t always tell the whole story.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

The only thing bad about Martinez was he wanted too much money; It's beginning to look like the only thing good about Kirksey is we got him cheap. I don't trust those PFF numbers when I don't agree with him, so I suppose I shouldn't put too much credence by them when I do agree, but 87 to 30 is a pretty big gap. I had high hopes for Kirksey coming in - uber-athletic supposedly, better than he played last season due to injury supposedly, but he has been a colossal disappointment so far.

Martinez couldn’t cover or shed blocks. Made most
of his tackles 10 yards down hill. I don’t miss the guy one bit.

[texaspackerbacker]

Kirksey has been worse so far. It wouldn't take much at all for Kryss Barnes or Kamal Martin or whoever to be better than either of them. They said 6 weeks or so from Sep. 2 for Martin to come back, so hopefully he amounts to something in mid October.

[GB-Brandon]

I’m too lazy to fact check, but pretty confident all of the passing TDs the Packers have allowed thus far this season are the fuck ups of the DBs. I only count Kirksey giving up a one big passing play over the middle - the one that Cypress Hill caught.

Like I said, Kirksey is no Urlacher but he’s an upgrade over Martinez, especially in coverage. The numbers don’t always tell the whole story.

Martinez had a “58.9” rating last year with the Packers which is still higher then Kirksry so far of “30.1”. The “87.4” rating Martinez has so far this year represents “Elite Play.” So I suppose you could argue like some are that PFF is a joke and they don’t know what the hell they are doing but the gap in rating is significant.

[run pMc]

Agree: Kirksey has not been an upgrade, I'd say it's been more of the same that we had with Blake TBH. He makes a lot of clean up tackles and keeps the D lined up. If he stays healthy, there's value in that...but not what Blake is making now. I can't say for sure that he's been better in pass coverage than Blake was.

Does anyone think we would be doing better if we kept Blake? I think he'd be about the same, except we would be howling at Gute for paying him 8-10M. I'm not gonna dog Kirksey for starting and playing at Blake-level for cheaper, but I was hoping for a little more upside/athleticism.

I don't think Barnes or Martin are going to be a sudden fix or drastic improvement. Maybe in Year 2 they'll surpass him, but I think Burks has proven he's not the answer and hopefully Gute will go back and look for a Day 3 ILB to add to the mix (unless Barnes really is an answer, albeit an undersized one). What happened to Summers? Still not cutting it? Preseason game snaps would have helped him I think.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'll give Kirksey some time to figure things out. Our DL (especially without Clark) doesn't help. DL is the weakness on this team. Every other group is at least decent. Defense has disappointed. I fear that we may again be good when other teams are forced to pass, but struggle when teams can stay balanced. Not sure who to pin it on more, Pettine or Gute. I like what Gute's done for the most part, but our DL is not good enough (only when we play OLBs at DL in pass rush situations).

[GB-Brandon]

Agree: Kirksey has not been an upgrade, I'd say it's been more of the same that we had with Blake TBH. He makes a lot of clean up tackles and keeps the D lined up. If he stays healthy, there's value in that...but not what Blake is making now. I can't say for sure that he's been better in pass coverage than Blake was.

Does anyone think we would be doing better if we kept Blake? I think he'd be about the same, except we would be howling at Gute for paying him 8-10M. I'm not gonna dog Kirksey for starting and playing at Blake-level for cheaper, but I was hoping for a little more upside/athleticism.

I don't think Barnes or Martin are going to be a sudden fix or drastic improvement. Maybe in Year 2 they'll surpass him, but I think Burks has proven he's not the answer and hopefully Gute will go back and look for a Day 3 ILB to add to the mix (unless Barnes really is an answer, albeit an undersized one). What happened to Summers? Still not cutting it? Preseason game snaps would have helped him I think.

Blake basically said the Problem was Pettine. I’d parlay that and say it’s Pettine and Gute because Gute didn’t put enough into the D-Line Either.

[GB-Brandon]

I'll give Kirksey some time to figure things out. Our DL (especially without Clark) doesn't help. DL is the weakness on this team. Every other group is at least decent. Defense has disappointed. I fear that we may again be good when other teams are forced to pass, but struggle when teams can stay balanced. Not sure who to pin it on more, Pettine or Gute. I like what Gute's done for the most part, but our DL is not good enough (only when we play OLBs at DL in pass rush situations).

Let me see here.

“Is it Pettine or Gute?”

Or kinda like

“Was it Capers or Thompson?”

Some things never change!!!!

[RashanGary]

I'll give Kirksey some time to figure things out. Our DL (especially without Clark) doesn't help. DL is the weakness on this team. Every other group is at least decent. Defense has disappointed. I fear that we may again be good when other teams are forced to pass, but struggle when teams can stay balanced. Not sure who to pin it on more, Pettine or Gute. I like what Gute's done for the most part, but our DL is not good enough (only when we play OLBs at DL in pass rush situations).

DL sure does look like the weakness. The offense is taking some pressure off by making teams play catch up. Missing Clark hurts. Those other 4 guys just aren't good players. For them to be effective, they need to be healthy and well rested. And even then, its just barely enough.

However, the offense is doing so well with ball control and scoring, the defense, once Clark gets back, has a chance to be perpetually rested and close to 100%. They do have a shot with Clark, especially with Gary playing so well this year.

[RashanGary]

Clark
Z
P
Gary

Lowry
Lancaster
Keke
Adams

Those are the 8 guys who play along the line. Clearly we're better suited to stop the pass compared to the run. Clark really does change things quite a bit though. He's the top nose in football so getting him back shores things up quite a bit.

[RashanGary]

If clark were out for the year, I wouldn't have a lot of hope for our defense in the playoffs, especially if we made it to face Baltimore.

[GB-Brandon]

If clark were out for the year, I wouldn't have a lot of hope for our defense in the playoffs, especially if we made it to face Baltimore.

Like I’ve been posting “CATASTROPHIC!”-

Even with him we might need to win a shoot out on the way or in the big one if we make it that far which is why I’ve suggested what I have.

[wist43]

Stud??

The kicker who missed an extra point, but instead hit a cardboard cutout of a fan. The cardboard cutout was taken to the hospital and pronounced dead from covid-19.

;)