Official Packers vs. Sparrows Studs and Duds

[George Cumby]

Studs:

Rodgers.
Z-Smith
LaFleur
Run Defense

Duds:

Secondary
Tackling ?

[Harlan Huckleby]

WRs were all duds. They don't play the ball well.

Tonyan, again, is #1TE worthy

[RashanGary]

Jamal Williams had 95 yards receiving. He's on pace for 400 rushing and 500 receiving. He's also elite in pass pro and was a lead blocker on a few run plays tonight

Blocks in the pass game
Can play as FB doing lead blocks
Catches like a wr
Tough runner

Does it all. Opens up the playbook. A big reason we didn't stumble too bad without our two top WRs.


MVS.... Sure, you don't want him to have to make a living on the underneath stuff. It's not the strength of his gsme. But it's nice to see him servicable in his least effective skill area tonight. Bodes well for the WR group when Davante gets back and even more so when Lizard is back too.

[RashanGary]

With Deguara down, might see Williams a little more as that FB type going forward. Even with Adam back.

[RashanGary]

12 plays well with guys he knows and trusts.


Jones (runner/WR)
Williams (blocker/pass pro/receiver/runner)
Tonyan (complete TE skillset)
Adams (complete WR)
MVS (deep threat)

It’s not a bad grouping to run or spread out and pass. I think that’s our best 5 when you think about Stergberger and Mercedes being the other two pushing for time. Williams just brings a better combination of versatility and cohesion with 12 to the table

[texaspackerbacker]

Studs

Rodgers - every game all the time THE number one stud

Jones - getting right up there too

Tonyan - looking like the best TE the Packers have had since ....... better than Cook, better than Finley, better than Coffman if he keeps it up, who am I forgetting? I don't remember a better one, based on this small sample of four games.

Lesser Studs

Z. Smith - much better the second half, but I'm gonna say not as productive as last year yet, maybe when we get Clark back

Jamal Williams - damn good all around player, but don't even think about having him replace Jones. He's strictly "supporting cast".

Adrian Amos - the best I've seen him this season

Jaire Alexander - good game, but I've seen him play better

Valdez-Scantling - did what he was called on to do

Savage - improving, but needs to get better yet

Just OK but did their job mostly

the center and left side of the O Line - not as good as their reputation or earlier weeks

the ILBs - good play considering the low expectations

Raven Greene - no mistakes that I saw

Malik Taylor - at least OK maybe better

Tyler Ervin - did his job, but I just don't see anything special about him.

Josh Jackson - sorry to the King fans, but I like Jackson better, although he was only ok at best

Duds

the right side of the O Line, Lucas Patrick in particular - relatively poor run blocking, inconsistent at best pass blocking

The D Line - not horrible, but basically played down to low expectations - Sign Snacks, cut Lancaster

Kevin King - I know a lot of people love him and have high expectations for him, but what I saw was him getting beat too many times in coverage as well as not being a very sure tacker.

P. Smith - basically disappeared

RG, what's wrong with Deguara? I couldn't find any info about an injury.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Studs

Rodgers - every game all the time THE number one stud

Jones - getting right up there too

Tonyan - looking like the best TE the Packers have had since ....... better than Cook, better than Finley, better than Coffman if he keeps it up, who am I forgetting? I don't remember a better one, based on this small sample of four games.

Lesser Studs

Z. Smith - much better the second half, but I'm gonna say not as productive as last year yet, maybe when we get Clark back

Jamal Williams - damn good all around player, but don't even think about having him replace Jones. He's strictly "supporting cast".

Adrian Amos - the best I've seen him this season

Jaire Alexander - good game, but I've seen him play better

Valdez-Scantling - did what he was called on to do

Savage - improving, but needs to get better yet

Just OK but did their job mostly

the center and left side of the O Line - not as good as their reputation or earlier weeks

the ILBs - good play considering the low expectations

Raven Greene - no mistakes that I saw

Malik Taylor - at least OK maybe better

Tyler Ervin - did his job, but I just don't see anything special about him.

Josh Jackson - sorry to the King fans, but I like Jackson better, although he was only ok at best

Duds

the right side of the O Line, Lucas Patrick in particular - relatively poor run blocking, inconsistent at best pass blocking

The D Line - not horrible, but basically played down to low expectations - Sign Snacks, cut Lancaster

Kevin King - I know a lot of people love him and have high expectations for him, but what I saw was him getting beat too many times in coverage as well as not being a very sure tacker.

P. Smith - basically disappeared

RG, what's wrong with Deguara? I couldn't find any info about an injury.

Tonyan “Harding“ could turn out to be a “Hillbilly” Kittle clone, but at this point in space-time, no fucking way Tonyan is better than J-Mike was in his prime.

J-Mike could run routes like Greg Jennings and break tackles like Adrian Peterson. A matchup nightmare: too fast for linebackers; too big for DBs. Two reasons J-Mike never put up monster numbers: 1. Injuries and 2. Rodgers had to also feed the egos of the likes of Jennings, Driver, Nelson, Jones and Cobbs.

On the Falconers’ first drive, 21 Savage pretty much bailed out Alexander and prevented a TD after 23 bite hard on a double move. Pass was thrown bit behind but Amos nonetheless prevented a TD to a wide open Ridley in the clutch. For the game, Amos and Savage were egotists (good), not egoists (bad).

[HarveyWallbangers]

On the Falconers’ first drive, 21 Savage pretty much bailed out Alexander and prevented a TD after 23 bite hard on a double move. Pass was thrown bit behind but Amos nonetheless prevented a TD to a wide open Ridley in the clutch. For the game, Amos and Savage were egotists (good), not egoists (bad).

I'm with the announcers on this one. It looked like it was zone and Jaire had short responsibility while Savage had deep responsibility. I think Jaire played it how it was meant to be played--which is why he never played catchup after the double move. He stayed in the short zone.

[Zool]

I'm with the announcers on this one. It looked like it was zone and Jaire had short responsibility while Savage had deep responsibility. I think Jaire played it how it was meant to be played--which is why he never played catchup after the double move. He stayed in the short zone.

Tough to argue X's and O'x with Tank. He thinks it means hugs and kisses.

23 definitely was playing shallow expecting help over the top. Savage was late on the read and got lucky with a slightly off throw. Good thing Savage is so crazy fast.

[HarveyWallbangers]

As bad as the defense has seemed to play, they've made a few plays. They are now 18th in pts allowed, 13th in yards allowed, 9th in rushing yards allowed, 18th is passing yards allowed, and 5th in sacks. Offense is way up around the league. The yards and points they've given up late in prevent has really hurt their stats too.

[Zool]

As bad as the defense has seemed to play, they've made a few plays. They are now 18th in pts allowed, 13th in yards allowed, 9th in rushing yards allowed, 18th is passing yards allowed, and 5th in sacks. Offense is way up around the league. The yards and points they've given up late in prevent has really hurt their stats too.

Agreed. The D is perfectly mediocre this year. P Smith has kinda disappeared from the backfield, but he seems to be dropping into coverage a lot more than last season. Through 3 quarters, there was almost no pressure on the QB.

Having a lead in every game lends itself to softer D and more stats. Ws mean a lot more than YPG.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It seemed Raven Greene finally played more snaps than Will Redmond, and I think that's a good thing.

[RashanGary]

As bad as the defense has seemed to play, they've made a few plays. They are now 18th in pts allowed, 13th in yards allowed, 9th in rushing yards allowed, 18th is passing yards allowed, and 5th in sacks. Offense is way up around the league. The yards and points they've given up late in prevent has really hurt their stats too.

I haven’t felt like they were that bad. I always feel like a big play is coming when it seems like the opposing offenses are making hay. And I’ve never felt a hopeless feeling like they’re just gonna score. The garbage yards and points definitely hurt us. Can’t wait for Clark to come back. Would love to see a full healthy defense going into post swason. We definitely have a shot

[call_me_ishmael]

I don't really watch the games anymore, but this seems like an impressive play from the undrafted LB who's name escapes me.

https://twitter.com/BenFennell_NFL/status/1313480068627341314

[Guiness]

As bad as the defense has seemed to play, they've made a few plays. They are now 18th in pts allowed, 13th in yards allowed, 9th in rushing yards allowed, 18th is passing yards allowed, and 5th in sacks. Offense is way up around the league. The yards and points they've given up late in prevent has really hurt their stats too.

They had a handful of 3 and outs last night, against a very good offense. They also held them to 3pts on that really long drive, which had to be demoralizing for Atlanta's O. I'm happy with their play against the Falcons.

[Joemailman]

I don't really watch the games anymore, but this seems like an impressive play from the undrafted LB who's name escapes me.

https://twitter.com/BenFennell_NFL/status/1313480068627341314

I thought it strange Barnes wasn't drafted. Obviously he should have been.

[Joemailman]

As bad as the defense has seemed to play, they've made a few plays. They are now 18th in pts allowed, 13th in yards allowed, 9th in rushing yards allowed, 18th is passing yards allowed, and 5th in sacks. Offense is way up around the league. The yards and points they've given up late in prevent has really hurt their stats too.

True but the run defense is 23rd in rushing YPC allowed. They've been protected by an offense averaging almost 40 PPG so teams aren't running a lot in the 2nd half. They need to get better to beat teams like the 49ers. Getting Clark back and maybe Snacks should help.

[RashanGary]

Clark helps Preston a lot because a big part of Ps sacks come on speed rushes where the QB can’t step up. Those are special because P has a way of doing those rushes at the perfect times. He times it out

[George Cumby]

I don't really watch the games anymore, but this seems like an impressive play from the undrafted LB who's name escapes me.

https://twitter.com/BenFennell_NFL/status/1313480068627341314

That was heads up, he turned his hips fast and has nifty feet, if that thin slice is indicative of his ceiling, holy cow.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I'm with the announcers on this one. It looked like it was zone and Jaire had short responsibility while Savage had deep responsibility. I think Jaire played it how it was meant to be played--which is why he never played catchup after the double move. He stayed in the short zone.

I will review the All-24 films of the game and get back to you.

[texaspackerbacker]

Tonyan “Harding“ could turn out to be a “Hillbilly” Kittle clone, but at this point in space-time, no fucking way Tonyan is better than J-Mike was in his prime.

J-Mike could run routes like Greg Jennings and break tackles like Adrian Peterson. A matchup nightmare: too fast for linebackers; too big for DBs. Two reasons J-Mike never put up monster numbers: 1. Injuries and 2. Rodgers had to also feed the egos of the likes of Jennings, Driver, Nelson, Jones and Cobbs.

On the Falconers’ first drive, 21 Savage pretty much bailed out Alexander and prevented a TD after 23 bite hard on a double move. Pass was thrown bit behind but Amos nonetheless prevented a TD to a wide open Ridley in the clutch. For the game, Amos and Savage were egotists (good), not egoists (bad).

You've got a lot more positive memory of Finley than I have hahahahaha.

I'm pretty sure they were in zone on that play you're talking about - Alexander had him short, and then Savage had the deep zone, getting there just barely in time. , BTW, Savage is #26, not 21. I like it when they play zone. You're right, both Safetys played good games.

Gosh, I guess I should finish the thread before responding to early posts. Harvey, I see you beat me to it making that point.

[Fritz]

Jamal Williams had 95 yards receiving. He's on pace for 400 rushing and 500 receiving. He's also elite in pass pro and was a lead blocker on a few run plays tonight

Blocks in the pass game
Can play as FB doing lead blocks
Catches like a wr
Tough runner

Does it all. Opens up the playbook. A big reason we didn't stumble too bad without our two top WRs.


MVS.... Sure, you don't want him to have to make a living on the underneath stuff. It's not the strength of his gsme. But it's nice to see him servicable in his least effective skill area tonight. Bodes well for the WR group when Davante gets back and even more so when Lizard is back too.


I was really impressed with Jamaal Williams last night. That guy can really, really catch the ball well, and he's a better runner than he has been the last couple of years. And he can block. Mike Holmgren would've loved this guy; he's like Edgar Bennett only a bit better, I think.

I also thought the offensive line's pass blocking was great. Really great. They bottled up that pass rush nicely.

Oh, and Tex, did you see that Rodgers is getting the ball out way quicker this year than during MM's day, and he's getting longer completions to boot??

[run pMc]

Savage played better, he still guesses and misses tackles too often IMO, but he's coming along. He's got ability and he works at his game.
Nick Collins took a couple of seasons of bad angles before the light went on and he played like a Pro Bowl level safety.

Tonyan is not Finley. They don't have a Finley on the roster right now. I don't think of any of the current TEs as RAC threats like he was. I thought Tonyan was what he was; tease here, blah otherwise. He's proven me wrong and is becoming a nice weapon for Rodgers. I don't expect Lazard back soon so it's important to have players besides Adams and Jones catching passes. I'd like to see what Jace and Josiah can do, but I think they are behind because of injuries etc.

MLF didn't call quite the game I expected, but I think he called a smart game and Rodgers ran it to near-perfection.

[Vincenzo]

In my humble opinion the Atlanta Falcons played like a High School football team and I kinda got annoyed with the Packers towards the end of the game when the Falcons were kinda hanging around.
The Packers looked as if they should have buried the Falcons by halftime.

[gbgary]

studs: rodgers, jones, alexander, Big Bob, Z.
duds: duds? there were no stinking duds!

[gbgary]

Studs:

Rodgers.
Z-Smith
LaFleur
Run Defense

Duds:

Secondary
Tackling ?

the secondary? the falcons got squat. calvin ridley? 0! jones? 32. normal garbage time yards given up. tackling? who tackles well any more? it's not a priority in high school or college. college D sucks and that's the player pool. the cba and player salaries basically prohibit it being taught with any seriousness. it is what it is.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

That was heads up, he turned his hips fast and has nifty feet, if that thin slice is indicative of his ceiling, holy cow.

Barnes tipped a sure pick by the DB right into the hands of a Falconer.

How the duck is that a heads up play?

[George Cumby]

Barnes tipped a sure pick by the DB right into the hands of a Falconer.

How the duck is that a heads up play?

You are stupid.

[George Cumby]

the secondary? the falcons got squat. calvin ridley? 0! jones? 32. normal garbage time yards given up. tackling? who tackles well any more? it's not a priority in high school or college. college D sucks and that's the player pool. the cba and player salaries basically prohibit it being taught with any seriousness. it is what it is.

I had to put something in there.

Ryan put up solid numbers.

Question mark on the tackling, I was scraping for something.

[bobblehead]

This isn't a championship defense, but man is Rodgers on fire in the M4 offense. He don't give a shit who you line up with him, just give him a pocket and he is finding guys. Vintage MVP Rodgers.

Sign snacks. Get 'er done. It could be the difference between and Owl or not (as opposed to Antonio Brown who can single handedly sink a team).

[SudsMcBucky]

Just gotta hope Snacks makes it outta Seattle without signing a contract.

[texaspackerbacker]

"Oh, and Tex, did you see that Rodgers is getting the ball out way quicker this year than during MM's day, and he's getting longer completions to boot??"

Not really, Fritz. Longer completions, yes, but quicker? Sometimes, maybe, but not always. It's a matter of circumstances about that. Did you see Tonyan's presscon where he described getting held, knocked down, doing a somersault, getting up and still having Rodgers spot him for a TD pass? 8 or 9 seconds there hahahaha.

[Upnorth]

Duds: not getting dillion involved so we can take a look see at what we got. This was the game we could.

[Fritz]

"Oh, and Tex, did you see that Rodgers is getting the ball out way quicker this year than during MM's day, and he's getting longer completions to boot??"

Not really, Fritz. Longer completions, yes, but quicker? Sometimes, maybe, but not always. It's a matter of circumstances about that. Did you see Tonyan's presscon where he described getting held, knocked down, doing a somersault, getting up and still having Rodgers spot him for a TD pass? 8 or 9 seconds there hahahaha.

I did. That's one play, Tex. I'm talking about the statistic that Chris Collinsworth put up last Sunday - the actual numbers. Rodgers is getting rid of the ball way quicker than he did in M3's offense, and is getting more yards per completed pass than he used to.

[texaspackerbacker]

I won't disagree with that except to say, sometimes he still holds it - because it's a good idea to hold it, and most of the time, maybe all the time when he does get rid of it quick, it's because of circumstances - somebody coming open quick as well as not having to run for his life quite as much as previous years. Forcing quickness is a recipe for interceptions, which, of course, Rodgers literally never throws - the most GOATly of all his many GOATly qualities.

[Fritz]

I don't know, Tex. He seems to be getting the ball out quicker, but it's because he's more decisive about where it's going. And the dude it's going to is often pretty wide open, thanks in part to The Flower's scheming and motion.

[KYPack]

I will review the All-24 films of the game and get back to you.

What good would that do? You wouldn't know what in the hell you were looking at, so why would anybody learn anything from your "analysis".

There are two types of zone coverages. One is called pattern. That is the type of coverage where you are covering an area of the field. Just as in basketball where you cover an area of the court. Alexander had the short zone. He covered his responsibility, lhen he released his receiver to his inside help.

The other zone cover is called lock (or match). When the offensive player enters your area of coverage, you pick him up in man technique. The newish term for this is plaster, you got him all over the field.

I see many on here slagging Pettine. They are goofy. Defensive lapses happen, but they aren't usually the fault of the coach. This play we are discussing is an excellent example of an experienced DC crafting a sophisticated game plan. His young dbacks are picking up on team play on their back line. Alexander is a brilliant player that is coming together with his backfield mates to form a solid pass coverage unit.

Why should we wait for your silly ass to analyze tape, you have no clue what you are looking at. Just go into your bedrooom and look at the posters of DK Metcalf and Mike Sherman on the ceiling and tell us about that.

[Zool]

Just go into your bedrooom and look at the posters of DK Metcalf and Mike Sherman on the ceiling and tell us about that.

See now, what you've done here is bring up a very important question. Does he cut out Metcalf's head and put it on Sherman's Pear Shaped Loser of a body? Or does he like the fatherly face of ol' Mike on a ripped up black man's body? I, tentatively, want answers.

[George Cumby]

See now, what you've done here is bring up a very important question. Does he cut out Metcalf's head and put it on Sherman's Pear Shaped Loser of a body? Or does he like the fatherly face of ol' Mike on a ripped up black man's body? I, tentatively, want answers.

Thanks for qualifying this, otherwise I'd be really concerned.

As it is, I'm only slightly concerned.

[KYPack]

See now, what you've done here is bring up a very important question. Does he cut out Metcalf's head and put it on Sherman's Pear Shaped Loser of a body? Or does he like the fatherly face of ol' Mike on a ripped up black man's body? I, tentatively, want answers.

T'Would be but idle speculation. But given your level of smarts and experience. I'd lean to the Sherm head/face on that rockin' DK bod.

There is a possibility he has a Deion Sanders/Josh McDaniels morph also, but that would just be a guess.

[texaspackerbacker]

I don't know, Tex. He seems to be getting the ball out quicker, but it's because he's more decisive about where it's going. And the dude it's going to is often pretty wide open, thanks in part to The Flower's scheming and motion.

We're not that far apart on this. Yeah, he's getting rid of the ball quicker probably well over half the time. And yeah, a lot of receivers are open in part because of LaFleur's scheme which Rodgers seems to appreciate and which they are doing with a minimum of mistakes. I appreciate all that motion and misdirection too, especially because I still don't think our O Line is very good at just lining up and controlling the D Line.

My point is that if you mandate getting rid of the ball quick, not just in good circumstances, then you risk interceptions or at least a helluva lot of throwaways. And the thing I'm most thankful about Aaron Rodgers about is that lack of interceptions.

[RashanGary]

What good would that do? You wouldn't know what in the hell you were looking at, so why would anybody learn anything from your "analysis".

There are two types of zone coverages. One is called pattern. That is the type of coverage where you are covering an area of the field. Just as in basketball where you cover an area of the court. Alexander had the short zone. He covered his responsibility, lhen he released his receiver to his inside help.

The other zone cover is called lock (or match). When the offensive player enters your area of coverage, you pick him up in man technique. The newish term for this is plaster, you got him all over the field.

I see many on here slagging Pettine. They are goofy. Defensive lapses happen, but they aren't usually the fault of the coach. This play we are discussing is an excellent example of an experienced DC crafting a sophisticated game plan. His young dbacks are picking up on team play on their back line. Alexander is a brilliant player that is coming together with his backfield mates to form a solid pass coverage unit.

Why should we wait for your silly ass to analyze tape, you have no clue what you are looking at. Just go into your bedrooom and look at the posters of DK Metcalf and Mike Sherman on the ceiling and tell us about that.

Curious, ky, in a match concept, what if no one comes into your area? Just stand there? And what if the offense sends two guys into one area and then they split off....

Seems like a lot of room for mistakes in this match zone concept.

[Fosco33]

Z smith gave up outside contain on a few routes last game. Seems like people see that and expose it as it’s happened a couple times in early weeks

[MadScientist]

We're not that far apart on this. Yeah, he's getting rid of the ball quicker probably well over half the time. And yeah, a lot of receivers are open in part because of LaFleur's scheme which Rodgers seems to appreciate and which they are doing with a minimum of mistakes. I appreciate all that motion and misdirection too, especially because I still don't think our O Line is very good at just lining up and controlling the D Line.

My point is that if you mandate getting rid of the ball quick, not just in good circumstances, then you risk interceptions or at least a helluva lot of throwaways. And the thing I'm most thankful about Aaron Rodgers about is that lack of interceptions.

There isn't a quick pass mandate in this offense, at least not more than any other offense. All NFL offenses try to get the ball out quickly for the most part to negate the pass rush. This is just a better scheme that allows for more open receivers on rhythm. The last years of M3 was run a two-part route so that when the first one was covered (very often), let Rodgers run around and see if the second part comes open. It sometimes worked great, but often Rodgers had to throw it away or dump it off.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

You are stupid.

You’re stupider.

Watch the film that Ole Partial provided. 21 Savage was in position to pick it off. Barnes came out of nowhere and knocked it away. Right into the waiting hands of a Falconer, in fact.

Play reminds me of another Monday Nite game. Shields was in position for a 200 yards pick-6, but Mr. Hyde popped out of nowhere and batted the rock down. Mr. Hyde was celebrating as if he had just picked off a gimme Kap throw in da clutch to seal a playoff victory for the Pack. Shields was like, fool, I coulda taken that to the house!

[George Cumby]

^

Nope.

You are wrong. As almost always

He pushes in, reads Ryan's eyes, flips his hips, gets to where he needs to be, fast, jumps really athletically and gets his hands on the ball, almost picks it himself.

The other two Packers there both had a shot at the ball, it was mere happenstance the Falcon got it. Kind of like the sun shining on a dog's ass. Kind of like a blind squirrel finding a nut. Kind of like the rare occasions you don't post something totally stupid.

[Fosco33]

So Z is nfc def player of the week w/ 3 sack performance.

I was thinking w/ the late hits and some bad outside contain that he didn’t have a good game.

[KYPack]

I will review the All-24 films of the game and get back to you.

I love Halloween. One of my other favorite things is a thread where

Tank posts a lot of stupid and wrong headed posts and gets rolled for it.

It's All 22, All 24 must be a CFL product.

[KYPack]

Curious, ky, in a match concept, what if no one comes into your area? Just stand there? And what if the offense sends two guys into one area and then they split off....

Seems like a lot of room for mistakes in this match zone concept.

Remember, these different styles are incorporated into an overall coverage scheme. One back may be in match technique while the others are covering their guys in pattern. And sure, if the offense has your coverage sniffed out, they damn sure will send two guys into a zone patrolled by one back. In that case, you just have to get to the deepest of the deep receiver and hope for the best.

An old coach explained to me that the principal of any zone is to provide maximum coverage at the snap and maintain it for 4 to five seconds until the pass rushers heat up the passer and stop the play. The rush men are trying to stop the pass so the cover guys don't have a zone too big to cover. Zone coverage is living on the edge. The D coaches have to disguise coverages and change things up so the offense can't get a handle on what they are doing.

[texaspackerbacker]

Zone is a distinct advantage against the run including QB scrambles. The main reason I want the Packers to play at least some zone, though, is that our Corners are often beatable in man coverage. Even Jaire gets beat when he covers an elite receiver, and just about anybody beats Kevin King.

[George Cumby]

So Z is nfc def player of the week w/ 3 sack performance.

I was thinking w/ the late hits and some bad outside contain that he didn’t have a good game.

I kind of accept those blown assignments and late hits as a function of his aggressive play.

My thought is that it's okay as it sets a head-hunting tone for the defense, so long as he's productive.

Doing it like Clay or Daniels with late hits but no production? Not so much.

[KYPack]

Zone is a distinct advantage against the run including QB scrambles. The main reason I want the Packers to play at least some zone, though, is that our Corners are often beatable in man coverage. Even Jaire gets beat when he covers an elite receiver, and just about anybody beats Kevin King.

Then you must be ecstatic with Pettines defense. He plays almost exclusively zone. He preferred D is a 34 with the backline
in cover 3 with Amos the post safety, deepest of the deep. The 3 deep backs in cover 3 divide the field in thirds. My guess is Amos the vet makes the coverage calls.

Amos is an excellent captain and post safety. He calls the coverages and gets the boys lined up and makes the calls.

It's a sound D and of course the 34 with cover 3 is just the basic shell. Pettine makes numerous tweaks to keep those offenses guessing. But he's pretty much exclusively a zone guy.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I am friends with Al Harris on the Facebook and I asked him about the Pistol Force. Ole Al was like, what the fuck is the the Pistol Force?

Nuff said.

[run pMc]

Then you must be ecstatic with Pettines defense. He plays almost exclusively zone. He preferred D is a 34 with the backline
in cover 3 with Amos the post safety, deepest of the deep. The 3 deep backs in cover 3 divide the field in thirds. My guess is Amos the vet makes the coverage calls.

Amos is an excellent captain and post safety. He calls the coverages and gets the boys lined up and makes the calls.

It's a sound D and of course the 34 with cover 3 is just the basic shell. Pettine makes numerous tweaks to keep those offenses guessing. But he's pretty much exclusively a zone guy.

This. I believe GB ranks in the middle on % of zone, which is more zone than I would expect because they seem to draft guys who can press and play man. I don't see them play tight man coverage that often though. If you listen to the Larivee/Rock broadcasts they will call zone coverage, it happens more than you might think. I've mostly stopped listening to the TV since they frequently get the players wrong and spout 99% cliches and 1% useful info.

[texaspackerbacker]

Then you must be ecstatic with Pettines defense. He plays almost exclusively zone. He preferred D is a 34 with the backline
in cover 3 with Amos the post safety, deepest of the deep. The 3 deep backs in cover 3 divide the field in thirds. My guess is Amos the vet makes the coverage calls.

Amos is an excellent captain and post safety. He calls the coverages and gets the boys lined up and makes the calls.

It's a sound D and of course the 34 with cover 3 is just the basic shell. Pettine makes numerous tweaks to keep those offenses guessing. But he's pretty much exclusively a zone guy.

I haven't always been completely happy with Pettine's D, but I'm not nearly as negative about him as a lot of people. I liked Capers too. The bad scenario to me is if we had a non-attacking D like what McCarthy's guy in Dallas has. You have to put pressure on the QB these days. The worst times for the Packers this year has been when they sagged back too much late in games or halves while leading - not quite a prevent, but close.

As for the zone stuff, I wasn't aware that he plays it "almost exclusively". Last year, it seemed like they played a lot of man; This year, I see more zone, but a lot of man also - or are my eyes deceiving me?

That 20 play 10 minute drive was basically what you get with that "shell" thing - keeping everything in front of you. I'm not sure whether I like that or not as a base D. It beats giving up big plays, though.

[KYPack]

This. I believe GB ranks in the middle on % of zone, which is more zone than I would expect because they seem to draft guys who can press and play man. I don't see them play tight man coverage that often though. If you listen to the Larivee/Rock broadcasts they will call zone coverage, it happens more than you might think. I've mostly stopped listening to the TV since they frequently get the players wrong and spout 99% cliches and 1% useful info.

Absolutely Run.

Very few teams ever play the old classic man to man/cover 1 anymore. Also gone the way of the dodo is the old cover 2 with both safeties over in support of the corners. Most teams play 2 high safeties (NE) or the 3 high like Pettine.

RE announcers. These guys see a defensive guy in an iso situation and tell the viewers that the defensive team was in a man to man defense. No, the player in question was doing his job in a complicated defense but the base defense was a zone. So the announcer and 98% of the audience thinks the D was a man to man.

Not so grasshopper.

There is an ex-player or coach in the booth that knows the announcer is a boob, but they aren't going to go on a tangent explaining the finer points and interrupt the broadcast.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

dbl post

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I'm with the announcers on this one. It looked like it was zone and Jaire had short responsibility while Savage had deep responsibility. I think Jaire played it how it was meant to be played--which is why he never played catchup after the double move. He stayed in the short zone.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50432220128_95fe896895_b.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50432913316_3c59a2a359_b.jpg

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Check out the screenshots. 21 Savage didn't line up in Cover 2 presnap. Every DB was in man instead for 23.

I am correct.

[KYPack]

I am friends with Al Harris on the Facebook and I asked him about the Pistol Force. Ole Al was like, what the fuck is the the Pistol Force?

Nuff said.

Will he send you an autographed picture?

Fan Boy.

[KYPack]

Check out the screenshots. 21 Savage didn't line up in Cover 2 presnap. Every DB was in man instead for 23.

I am correct.

What man is the post safety covering, dimbulb?

This is a cover three zone.

Alexander Savage and Amos correctly executed their assignments perfectly.

I guess you think the only zone is a cover two.

This is a cover 3 with Amos the post safely.

The 3 deep guys were in thirds with Alexander covering the short zone.

pass incomplete

just like your football knowledge.

[George Cumby]

pass incomplete

just like your football knowledge.

oof

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Sorry, Kentucky, you don't know what you're taking about. I'm guessing the last time you coached futbol, the rock was as fat as the rugby ball and the forward pass was illegal.

I posted pre and post snaps screen shots. Cover 3, the "free" most often lines up at deep center field. In the pre snap pic, Amos lines up in Cover 2. Sure, sometimes the call is Cover 3 and the free lines up presnap in Cover 2 with the aim of confusing the offense. But as the 2nd pic shows, Amos doesn't run to center field post snap, as he should in cover 3. Also Cover 3 is zone. If it's cover 3, why the fuck is everyone but 23 playing man? Additionally, if it's Cover 3, 23's assignment should be the outside third, not the flat.

Call was man, most likely Cover2 man. 23 gambled wrong but was bailed out by 21 Savage.

Never question my futbol acumen again. I shutdown Darren Charles in a high school futbol game, after all. :)

[KYPack]

No fan boy.
This was a zone.

See Savage bailing back to his assignment.

Amos is the post safety.

Alexander covering his area.

Savage is bailing to provide deep support in that zone

All the people you have circled as being in man coverage are iso d on their assignment in this zone cover.

How did both Savage and Amos end up in deep coverage on this play?

Devine intervention?

Cover 2 man is used by Pettine, but rarely.

This is a zone and you are a fan boy that never took one step on a football field

[HarveyWallbangers]

Don't you think they may be disguising their coverage?

[George Cumby]

Don't you think they may be disguising their coverage?

One might think a different look used to mask a coverage from an excellent ten-year NFL quarterback might be enough to confuse some keyboard warrior.

It sure confuses me, I look at the screen grab, "Yup! Eleven guys on Green! It's a Defense!"

[Zool]

Don't you think they may be disguising their coverage?

Or possibly miscommunication on the call/check?

[Upnorth]

One might think a different look used to mask a coverage from an excellent ten-year NFL quarterback might be enough to confuse some keyboard warrior.

It sure confuses me, I look at the screen grab, "Yup! Eleven guys on Green! It's a Defense!"

I don't know if it always is a defence this year. Sometimes our d looks offensive

[Zool]

I don't know if it always is a defence this year. Sometimes our d looks offensive

:rs:

[George Cumby]

I don't know if it always is a defence this year. Sometimes our d looks offensive

lol

[bobblehead]

Absolutely Run.

Very few teams ever play the old classic man to man/cover 1 anymore. Also gone the way of the dodo is the old cover 2 with both safeties over in support of the corners. Most teams play 2 high safeties (NE) or the 3 high like Pettine.

RE announcers. These guys see a defensive guy in an iso situation and tell the viewers that the defensive team was in a man to man defense. No, the player in question was doing his job in a complicated defense but the base defense was a zone. So the announcer and 98% of the audience thinks the D was a man to man.

Not so grasshopper.

There is an ex-player or coach in the booth that knows the announcer is a boob, but they aren't going to go on a tangent explaining the finer points and interrupt the broadcast.

Something I wasn't aware of to be honest, but it makes sense now that you say it. With the cover 2 gone and the deep roamers being more the norm it explains the desire for safeties that run 4.4 but tackle for shit. Mix in the ILB/S hybrids and defenses have adjusted to offenses using RB and TE more in the passing game. Teams are using erasers deep and hybrids shallow.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Raven Greene taking more of Will Redmon's snaps is a underrated way for the Packers defense to get better. He played more in week 4, and it's the best the defense has looked this year.

[Upnorth]

I think Raven Greene taking more of Will Redmon's snaps is a underrated way for the Packers defense to get better. He played more in week 4, and it's the best the defense has looked this year.

He started as a hybrid saftey then moves to free whene savage was hurt then to slot corner when Sullivan was hurt. Talk about helping out!
https://www.packers.com/news/raven-greene-s-versatility-helped-keep-packers-secondary-afloat-against-atlanta

[bobblehead]

I think Raven Greene taking more of Will Redmon's snaps is a underrated way for the Packers defense to get better. He played more in week 4, and it's the best the defense has looked this year.

Yea, I pointed out last year how much our D regressed when Raven got injured. And then he got hurt early this year, but as he sees the field more they seem to perform better. Coincidence? I doubt it.

[bobblehead]

He started as a hybrid saftey then moves to free whene savage was hurt then to slot corner when Sullivan was hurt. Talk about helping out!
https://www.packers.com/news/raven-greene-s-versatility-helped-keep-packers-secondary-afloat-against-atlanta

Nice article up. I didn't realize he played slot at all in that game (or was capable of it to be honest). He is truly an under rated player.

[Fritz]

Remember, these different styles are incorporated into an overall coverage scheme. One back may be in match technique while the others are covering their guys in pattern. And sure, if the offense has your coverage sniffed out, they damn sure will send two guys into a zone patrolled by one back. In that case, you just have to get to the deepest of the deep receiver and hope for the best.

An old coach explained to me that the principal of any zone is to provide maximum coverage at the snap and maintain it for 4 to five seconds until the pass rushers heat up the passer and stop the play. The rush men are trying to stop the pass so the cover guys don't have a zone too big to cover. Zone coverage is living on the edge. The D coaches have to disguise coverages and change things up so the offense can't get a handle on what they are doing.

This is why I still show up at Packerrats. I have very little football knowledge (though it does not stop me from making confident, sweeping declarations), so I always thought zone defense was kind of a lame, soft defense. Having KY explain this helps me understand how it actually does work.

One thing KY is totally wrong about, however: he says Tank never took a single step on a football field. Tank did - but it was a very slow step, and Darren Charles blew by him, over and over, burning Tank like a piece of dry kindling, beating him like a mule.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

One thing KY is totally wrong about, however: he says Tank never took a single step on a football field. Tank did - but it was a very slow step, and Darren Charles blew by him, over and over, burning Tank like a piece of dry kindling, beating him like a mule.

It’s been proven that I shut down Darren Charles. At SportsBubblers, a dude got sick of my bragging and actually looked it up. Charles had 1 catch for 19 yards - He ran a 5 yards slant, I slipped, and since Neon Deion was my hero (Neon hated to tackle), I allowed the safety the pleasure of making the tackle some 14 yards downfield.

Didn’t catch a rock again the rest of the night.

Btw, the Kentucky said that on the Alexander-21 Savage play that I posted screenshots of, the Packers were in Cover 3. That speaks volumes about his knowledge of the modern game.

Hint: the Packers were NOT in Cover 3. Look at the techniques of all the DBs other than 23! Trust me, I know
a thing or two about DB technique. I shutdown Darren Charles, after all.

[texaspackerbacker]

Did you punt too? Cuz if you did, you coulda flipped the field like a burger.

It doesn't happen often, APB, but when you're right, you're right. I'm thinking they play cover two or rover two (somebody needs to explain the difference to me hahaha) most of the time, with Alexander sort of a wild card who just does what needs to be done according to the situation.

[CaptainKickass]

I think Raven Greene taking more of Will Redmon's snaps is a underrated way for the Packers defense to get better. He played more in week 4, and it's the best the defense has looked this year.

Yes. Now if only there was a complimentary-named player, who also made the defense better, to share the field with Greene named Baye.

[sharpe1027]

It’s been proven that I shut down Darren Charles. At SportsBubblers, a dude got sick of my bragging and actually looked it up. Charles had 1 catch for 19 yards - He ran a 5 yards slant, I slipped, and since Neon Deion was my hero (Neon hated to tackle), I allowed the safety the pleasure of making the tackle some 14 yards downfield.

Didn’t catch a rock again the rest of the night.

Btw, the Kentucky said that on the Alexander-21 Savage play that I posted screenshots of, the Packers were in Cover 3. That speaks volumes about his knowledge of the modern game.

Hint: the Packers were NOT in Cover 3. Look at the techniques of all the DBs other than 23! Trust me, I know
a thing or two about DB technique. I shutdown Darren Charles, after all.

If your team got rolled and couldn't stop the rushing game, there's a completely different reason for only being one catch. How many passes total in the game?

[RashanGary]

https://twitter.com/pff_seth/status/1314611267965984770?s=10

What do you guys see in this one?

[Zool]

https://twitter.com/pff_seth/status/1314611267965984770?s=10

What do you guys see in this one?

I love the direct swat to the QBs head about 4 seconds after the play.

[Joemailman]

I see a throwing motion Rodgers should try.

[George Cumby]

https://twitter.com/pff_seth/status/1314611267965984770?s=10

What do you guys see in this one?

#61 shit his pants.

[RashanGary]

https://twitter.com/pff_seth/status/1314611267965984770?s=10

What do you guys see in this one?

#72s motor runs hot and cold. He has all the physical gifts but I don't know if he loves football

[Sparkey]

https://twitter.com/pff_seth/status/1314611267965984770?s=10

What do you guys see in this one?
The left guard, 62, with the pancake block. Either that or he actually saw a pancake on the ground and was hungry.

[KYPack]

Nobody said anything about the photog snapping pics in the end zone while the play was going on?

[RashanGary]

Nobody said anything about the photog snapping pics in the end zone while the play was going on?

There's a lot to unpack here, Ky.

[Upnorth]

https://twitter.com/pff_seth/status/1314611267965984770?s=10

What do you guys see in this one?

I see so much comedy. The rt slowly standing up like he is just realizing people are around him. The qb throwing the ball to his son who is learning to catch. His older brother smacking that shit down.
And I just keep wishing some one gave the defensive end a pie to smash into the qb head.
It's dam near keystones cops.
It's like mitch trubyski last year.

[Upnorth]

The left tackle #75 blocks the head slapper for a solid second then just lets him go at the qb and even kinda pats his back on his way by. The more I watch this The more in laughing.

[RashanGary]

The way that defender falls after dropping the interception is priceless too!

[RashanGary]

The scouting report on 72 is that he's been known to take plays off :lol:

[Upnorth]

[QUOTE=RashanGary;1071676]The scouting report on 72 is that he's been known to take plays off :lol:[/QUOTE

This is why we have a concussion protocol today

[bobblehead]

All I saw was that Art Vande Lay had a twitter account. Priceless.

[Joemailman]

I think Raven Greene taking more of Will Redmon's snaps is a underrated way for the Packers defense to get better. He played more in week 4, and it's the best the defense has looked this year.

Yep. He played 72% of snaps and it showed. In general, I thought it was the best game the safeties played. They'll be getting Clark, Gary and Kirksey back. If they can fix the tackling problem, arrow is pointing up for this defense.

[run pMc]

Nobody said anything about the photog snapping pics in the end zone while the play was going on?

My first thought was the deep safety has a camera, and then I realized that photog was brave.
The line play was pretty lazy - slow out of their stances, everyone on skates, etc. The QB not reading the defense well, the receiver running a lousy route -- shoulda been a 7 route or corner fade.

The coach should be fired.

Only good thing was the bear paw swipe on the QB's face at the end...I doubt roughing the passer or illegal hands to the face was a penalty in 1933. That was probably how they said hello to each other...some old timer here can confirm.

[Joemailman]

We need Patler or Shadow to give a valid diagnosis of this play.