Rodgers 2020 MVP campaign!

[RashanGary]

Russ just played himself out of the top spot. It's 12’s to lose.

[texaspackerbacker]

hahahaha At what point in the game did you type that?

[texaspackerbacker]

I just heard something that PISSED ME OFF no end. Fox did a commercial for next week's game portraying it as Aaron Rodgers vs. the GOAT. FUCK THAT!!! And Fuck the shitheads at that network putting out that stupid shit.

No way in hell that Brady comes close to the quality of Aaron Rodgers for a career.

[Upnorth]

So I'm drunk and figured I would say happy canadian thanksgiving!!! Our beer is better and the Vikings can fuck up every time. Assholes.

[Patler]

I just heard something that PISSED ME OFF no end. Fox did a commercial for next week's game portraying it as Aaron Rodgers vs. the GOAT. FUCK THAT!!! And Fuck the shitheads at that network putting out that stupid shit.

No way in hell that Brady comes close to the quality of Aaron Rodgers for a career.

In a big game, I would take Brady in a heartbeat over Rodgers, and it has nothing to do with stats, arm talent, etc.

[Sparkey]

There are many ways to classify GOAT.

Purely on championships, there is no on better than Brady.

Although I wouldn't have expected the GOAT after yelling at his O-line to get their shit together earlier in the game, completely lost his shit regarding what down it was.

[Patler]

There are many ways to classify GOAT.

Purely on championships, there is no on better than Brady.

Although I wouldn't have expected the GOAT after yelling at his O-line to get their shit together earlier in the game, completely lost his shit regarding what down it was.

I have seen a lot of great players get old, many who played too long. One of my saddest moments as a sports fan was watching Willie Mays misplay several routine fly balls in one of his last games, simply because his legs/feet were gone. He was a great defensive outfielder, smooth and graceful in how he played. It was sad watching him play too long, stumbling and tripping.

Nitschke played too long. In some of his last appearances, he couldn't tackle. Again, watching it saddened me.

I'm not sure if Brady has gotten there or not. We will know in the coming weeks.

[Joemailman]

Russ just played himself out of the top spot. It's 12’s to lose.

The marquee games will matter. How Rodgers plays when the go to SF for a national game will be huge.

[run pMc]

hahahaha At what point in the game did you type that?

No idea. Wilson was 15/15 at one point, and was getting pressured frequently.

[texaspackerbacker]

Rodgers is simply better than Brady - past, present, and future. Those shitheads handing Rodgers' GOAT label to Brady should be horse-whipped. If Brady has won some big games, it's because he always had better talent around him.

[Tony Oday]

How good would Brady be without all the cheating?

[Patler]

How good would Brady be without all the cheating?

Probably just as good, which makes all the cheating even more absurd.

[Patler]

Rodgers is simply better than Brady - past, present, and future. Those shitheads handing Rodgers' GOAT label to Brady should be horse-whipped. If Brady has won some big games, it's because he always had better talent around him.

I don't think it is possible to pick a GOAT among NFL qbs. Too many, too close in performance. I won't suggest Brady or Rodgers is the GOAT. That said, if I had to pick between Rodgers and Brady for a single game, I would take Brady over Rodgers; and Favre wouldn't even be on my short list if I had the option of QBs from "all time."

[texaspackerbacker]

Not so. Right now, Rodgers and Mahomes are head and shoulders better than anybody else. Then you have another high level a little below - Watson, Jackson, Dak before the injury, and Wilson and nobody else I can think of on that. Then you have a lot of mediocre QBs below that

If Mahomes plays at the same high level for 12 or 14 more years, then he can maybe be called co-GOAT hahahahaha.

[George Cumby]

In a big game, I would take Brady in a heartbeat over Rodgers, and it has nothing to do with stats, arm talent, etc.

So if it's not what you listed, I assume you mean Brady manages his headspace better in big games?

I'd be curious to see if there's a statistical break-down of that somewhere.

I don't disagree, I just think Rodgers is a better QB, but my sample is biased.

Someone here, I think it was Harv or Joe did a breakdown showing how much better NE's defense has been during Brady's career compared to GB's during Rodgers career. That's kind of put this kind of question into the 'push' category for me.

[Upnorth]

So if it's not what you listed, I assume you mean Brady manages his headspace better in big games?

I'd be curious to see if there's a statistical break-down of that somewhere.

I don't disagree, I just think Rodgers is a better QB, but my sample is biased.

Someone here, I think it was Harv or Joe did a breakdown showing how much better NE's defense has been during Brady's career compared to GB's during Rodgers career. That's kind of put this kind of question into the 'push' category for me.

Football perspectives is a great analytics site that did a brady manning brees team support comparision and brady had the most support in at least the defensive and special teams phases. I believe also for offense but I might be wrong there

[RashanGary]

New England has always sort of played experienced guys. Their own and other teams cast offs. But experienced football players. Even still, after Brady, that’s a well coached and experienced team that they put on the field. Rodgers excels with those types too. He can do more with Jamaal Williams than Jace Stergberger, regardless of pure physical talent.

Gute seems to be leaning that way too. I like that a little better than constantly starting over with new green players. You can over invest in development and I think the Packers usually have. The practice squad and last couple spots, sure, but to start rookies and underdeveloped second year guys, I’m not a big fan

[bobblehead]

In a big game, I would take Brady in a heartbeat over Rodgers, and it has nothing to do with stats, arm talent, etc.

Have to disagree. There was a time I felt this way, but to be honest, the main difference between the 2 guys is the defenses they got to play with. And the head coach. A few years back someone posted a comparison of their playoff games. The number of times Brady had his defense hold teams to under 20 is a damn joke. Rodgers actually has been the better QB overall. Don't misunderstand me, I will still knock him for a handful of playoff stinkers he put forth, but again, the difference in results is coaching and Defense.

[Upnorth]

McCarthy had a front runners system where as hoody genius has a grind it out system (which Lafluer has similarities to). I think it is obvious which works better in a close game. How many game winning drives did rodgers have pre 2019? 20. In 2019 and 2020? 4.
1.25 seasons he has 20 percent of what he achieved in 10 years. Small sample size but i think the evidence speaks for itself.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Packers defense has given up 36.4 ppg in ARod's 8 playoff losses.
Patriots defense has given up 27.1 ppg in Brady's 11 playoff losses, 23.9 ppg overall in 41 games.

In Brady's first three Super Bowl runs, New England's defense gave up 13, 17, 17, 14, 14, 29, 3, 27, 21 points. Because of the weak AFC East, New England had the #1 seed three times and the #2 seed three times in the six Super Bowl runs. The only time the Packers had the #1 overall seed, the defense gave up 37 points to the Giants.

You almost have to rank Brady over Rodgers though. It's a combination of stats and team success. If Rodgers notched another Super Bowl title or two, then it gets interesting.

[George Cumby]

There you go.

Thanks, Harv.

[texaspackerbacker]

Packers defense has given up 36.4 ppg in ARod's 8 playoff losses.
Patriots defense has given up 27.1 ppg in Brady's 11 playoff losses, 23.9 ppg overall in 41 games.

In Brady's first three Super Bowl runs, New England's defense gave up 13, 17, 17, 14, 14, 29, 3, 27, 21 points. Because of the weak AFC East, New England had the #1 seed three times and the #2 seed three times in the six Super Bowl runs. The only time the Packers had the #1 overall seed, the defense gave up 37 points to the Giants.

You almost have to rank Brady over Rodgers though. It's a combination of stats and team success. If Rodgers notched another Super Bowl title or two, then it gets interesting.

Excellent recitation of the facts and stats; Your conclusion, however, is flawed. Who is the MVP/who is the GOAT is a strictly individual thing. Rodgers' individual performance over the years has been consistently better than Brady's or anybody else's. Hopefully Rodgers and the Packers will get those additional Super Bowl titles in the coming years like we all want.

[Upnorth]

Wins are a team stat. It really bugs me how people attribute sb to the qb. Like manning was the reason the giants won in 07 or 11. Thats like saying he was a bettee qb than Brady and rodgers. Give me a break.

[Patler]

It's never simple in these types of discussions. Points for, points against are meaningless, because the number of possessions can change so much. Not saying Rodgers has played with great defenses, but I think many were not nearly as bad as their average "points against" might lead one to believe. As some have alluded to, McCarthy and Rodgers when they were at their best would fly up and down the field. The Packers offense didn't keep their defense off the field for long even when they were scoring touchdowns. Other teams had to open up their offenses to try and keep up. Lots of points for both teams were inevitable.

Some very good athletes play at their average or expected performance consistently, others "averages" are achieved with very high highs and very low lows. Both Rodgers and Brady have been consistent performers; so, for me, the distinction is even more subtle than that

I have always said that the amazing thing about Bart Starr was high much he rose to the occasion in the biggest moments of the biggest games. Sure, Unitas was a "better" QB, but if I had to pick a QB to engineer a winning drive in their era, it would have been Starr. Especially in the years of their three-peat, when the team was getting old with many players already replaced, Starr was the key to their success. After the Ice Bowl, many players talked about how calm their huddles were during the winning drive. They knew they would score, because Bart Starr would not allow them to fail. No panic, just reasolve.

As for Brady vs Rodgers, to be perfectly honest I have not actually watched all that many of Brady's playoff games to really know. I made the bold and forceful choice of him over Rodgers to rile things up a bit as much as anything. However, I have seen all of the Packer playoff games, and there were a lot of them in which I thought a GOAT should have made plays that Rodgers did not. Not that he had terrible games, but when winning or losing comes down to just a handful of plays, the GOAT has to make them. Like when he missed the wide open Jennings running behind the Arizona defense in overtime ......

As much feeling as analysis in my selection.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Tom Brady with a career 89.8 passer rating in 41 playoff games.
Aaron Rodgers with a career 100.0 passer rating in 19 playoff games.

Brady certainly has had more big moments in the playoffs, but part of that is Hoody Genius and part of it is his defense has kept him in games (plenty when he hasn't played particularly well). I still give the edge to Brady because championships factor into this, like it or not. It's hard to argue 6 vs 1. I think Rodgers at his best is better than Brady. Rodgers at his best can do all that Brady can + things that Brady can't (arm strength/scrambling). If Rodgers won 1 or 2 Super Bowls, you could make a better argument -- like arguing Elway vs. Montana.

[HarveyWallbangers]

there were a lot of them in which I thought a GOAT should have made plays that Rodgers did not.

In my mind that describes Brett Favre more than Aaron Rodgers. Favre cost the Packers playoff victories. I think the losses with Rodgers are more on the players around him.

Brady missed plenty of receivers over the years, but nobody notices when you win. Brady played lousy in several games that the Patriots won -- especially during the first three Super Bowl seasons (ultimate game manager; just 11 TDs in 9 games over those three) and the last one (2 TDs in 3 playoff games and had a lousy Super Bowl). Just 13 TDs in 12 playoff games during those four Super Bowl seasons.

[Patler]

In my mind that describes Brett Favre more than Aaron Rodgers. Favre cost the Packers playoff victories.

Which is exactly why I wrote in my earlier post that "...Favre wouldn't even be on my short list if I had the option of QBs from 'all time.' "

[Patler]

Brady missed plenty of receivers over the years, but nobody notices when you win. Brady played lousy in several games that the Patriots won -- especially during the first three Super Bowl seasons (ultimate game manager; just 11 TDs in 9 games over those three) and the last one (2 TDs in 3 playoff games and had a lousy Super Bowl). Just 13 TDs in 12 playoff games during those four Super Bowl seasons.

Of course Brady has missed plenty of receivers over the years, all QBs have. I would hate to think you missed my point of the one example I gave, but perhaps you did. All incompletions are not equal when trying to chose among good players for the one to carry your standard.

I will never subscribe to the view that Packer wins are because of Rodgers, but losses are because of all the others. Many share in the wins and in the losses. But, a true GOAT makes the plays that are presented when the game is on the line. No, not any QB ever has made them all, and, yes, Rodgers has made some too, but I have come away from a lot of Packer playoff losses thinking Rodgers could/should have been better at crucial times of the game.

For that reason, and to get under the skins of the Rodgers adoration society, I'll vote for Brady.

[Patler]

Brady certainly has had more big moments in the playoffs, but part of that is Hoody Genius and part of it is his defense has kept him in games (plenty when he hasn't played particularly well). I still give the edge to Brady because championships factor into this, like it or not. It's hard to argue 6 vs 1. I think Rodgers at his best is better than Brady. Rodgers at his best can do all that Brady can + things that Brady can't (arm strength/scrambling). If Rodgers won 1 or 2 Super Bowls, you could make a better argument -- like arguing Elway vs. Montana.

I don't disagree with any of that.

[RashanGary]

Number of career starts it took before defense gave up 30+ points in back to back games:

Justin Herbert: 4
Peyton Manning: 7
Aaron Rodgers: 12
Patrick Mahomes: 13
Drew Brees: 26
Dan Marino: 37
.
.
.
.
Tom Brady: 295

[Upnorth]

Number of career starts it took before defense gave up 30+ points in back to back games:

Justin Herbert: 4
Peyton Manning: 7
Aaron Rodgers: 12
Patrick Mahomes: 13
Drew Brees: 26
Dan Marino: 37
.
.
.
.
Tom Brady: 295

Is that true or are you making a joke?

[Joemailman]

Rodgers has lost 5 playoff games where the Packers opponent scored 37 or more points (2009 - Arizona/2011 - New York/ 2012 - San Francisco/2016 - Atlanta/2019 - San Francisco). He has lost 2 overtime playoff games where he never got the ball in overtime. He hasn't been perfect, but he has been handicapped.

[George Cumby]

Up until the last two years, when there was something wrong with Rodgers, I never was nervous when he had the ball, no matter the stakes. Third and twelve? No problem. I just knew he was going to make a play or a great throw. Digressing: think of the sense of dread when Favre would have the ball in clutch situations.

I think Harv's QBR comparison is enough to send me over the edge. I'll take Rodgers over Brady.

[texaspackerbacker]

Rodgers has lost 5 playoff games where the Packers opponent scored 37 or more points (2009 - Arizona/2011 - New York/ 2012 - San Francisco/2016 - Atlanta/2019 - San Francisco). He has lost 2 overtime playoff games where he never got the ball in overtime. He hasn't been perfect, but he has been handicapped.

Interesting. In addition to faulty D, I guess they needed to improve their coin flipping skills.

[bobblehead]

It's never simple in these types of discussions. Points for, points against are meaningless, because the number of possessions can change so much. Not saying Rodgers has played with great defenses, but I think many were not nearly as bad as their average "points against" might lead one to believe. As some have alluded to, McCarthy and Rodgers when they were at their best would fly up and down the field. The Packers offense didn't keep their defense off the field for long even when they were scoring touchdowns. Other teams had to open up their offenses to try and keep up. Lots of points for both teams were inevitable.

Some very good athletes play at their average or expected performance consistently, others "averages" are achieved with very high highs and very low lows. Both Rodgers and Brady have been consistent performers; so, for me, the distinction is even more subtle than that

I have always said that the amazing thing about Bart Starr was high much he rose to the occasion in the biggest moments of the biggest games. Sure, Unitas was a "better" QB, but if I had to pick a QB to engineer a winning drive in their era, it would have been Starr. Especially in the years of their three-peat, when the team was getting old with many players already replaced, Starr was the key to their success. After the Ice Bowl, many players talked about how calm their huddles were during the winning drive. They knew they would score, because Bart Starr would not allow them to fail. No panic, just reasolve.

As for Brady vs Rodgers, to be perfectly honest I have not actually watched all that many of Brady's playoff games to really know. I made the bold and forceful choice of him over Rodgers to rile things up a bit as much as anything. However, I have seen all of the Packer playoff games, and there were a lot of them in which I thought a GOAT should have made plays that Rodgers did not. Not that he had terrible games, but when winning or losing comes down to just a handful of plays, the GOAT has to make them. Like when he missed the wide open Jennings running behind the Arizona defense in overtime ......

As much feeling as analysis in my selection.

Some good points Patler. We need some NBA style defensive rankings like Points/yards per possesion or per 10 possessions. Something like that would give you a dominance factor. Maybe another metric stating yards/possession with a lead vs. while behind. Its not always black and white. And your final point sums it up. To paraphrase, I can't give you the numbers on a great QB or Defense, but I know it when I see it.

[bobblehead]

In my mind that describes Brett Favre more than Aaron Rodgers. Favre cost the Packers playoff victories. I think the losses with Rodgers are more on the players around him.

Brady missed plenty of receivers over the years, but nobody notices when you win. Brady played lousy in several games that the Patriots won -- especially during the first three Super Bowl seasons (ultimate game manager; just 11 TDs in 9 games over those three) and the last one (2 TDs in 3 playoff games and had a lousy Super Bowl). Just 13 TDs in 12 playoff games during those four Super Bowl seasons.

Agree and disagree. Just off my gut I would say Rodgers has FAR more playoff fumbles and picks than compared to similar regular season rates. Some of the losses he has been just as responsible for.

[smuggler]

I'm late on this, but I'll take Brady over Rodgers in a big game. As long as I get Belichik, too.


Is that true or are you making a joke?

Brady has 290 career regular season starts. Maybe this is including playoffs. Or it's just BS.

[Upnorth]

All other things being equal, like defense scheme skill players etc. I don't see how it is even a question who you take. Scheme matters. Coaching matters. Defense matters. Special teams matters.
The one area I would say rodgers has had more support than Brady in is oline.
In a vacumm with one game to win I pick rodgers first young second Marino third. I pick a few more before Brady as well. It is hard to separate the man from the myth but the setting tb has played in has helped him so much over the years. Matt cassel went 11-5 garrapalo 3-0 in that scheme. I don't think a rodgers backup has won a game since 2011.

As to rodgers 2020 MVP I think he has to overcome a lot of pro Wilson sentiment. When they meet again it will be epic. Has a manning Brady feel

[SudsMcBucky]

I'm late on this, but I'll take Brady over Rodgers in a big game. As long as I get Belichik, too.



Brady has 290 career regular season starts. Maybe this is including playoffs. Or it's just BS.

Which duo would you pick, then. Brady/Belichik or Rodgers/Belichik?

[Spaulding]

Which duo would you pick, then. Brady/Belichik or Rodgers/Belichik?

Good question as that's boiling it down to the lowest level. All things equal (same coach, same players outside of QB), who would you take Rodgers or Brady.

In my eyes it's pretty clear that I'd take Rodgers over Brady. However, even given that, in reality Brady will go down as the GOAT based purely on longevity and championships.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers now over Brady ever.

[RashanGary]

Brady matured faster, was always willing to take what is given, understood how deadly a thousand paper cuts can be. Rodgers had a hard on for the spectacular.

Rodgers now though, moves as well as Brady in his prime, has the arm of Brady in his prime. And he’s now matched Brady as far as being a fierce winner vs being a big play glory hound. Today Rodgers is better than Brady has ever been.

Consistent greatness.... I’d take Brady. GOATs for different reasons.

[Jaire]

Brady = system product. :duel:

Way way overrated. Just been reconsidering old debates the
last couple days and finding intetesting stats.

Rodgers is GOAT is seems and to my surprise, and by a bit. Compare his ranked (yards/points) defense with any elite QB. Favre is an interesting comp for instance.

Brady had elite D's and the best coach of the last 20 years by far. He needs an asterisk at his induction into HoF. Under any other coach he is average.

That said, Brady maxed the tools he had. Rodgers, to compare, was given the Marino treatment (though losing Collins, Tramon, Shields, & Woodson was the worst luck ever). Even Marino had more top 10 defenses than Rodgers though that was the era of NFC dominance and some really stacked teams until FA.

How's that for a first post?

[Jaire]

Rodgers >>>> Brady

Rodgers had the worst defenses of any HoF QB, worse than Marino. The rankings don't lie. I only just realized how much better ARod is than any QB of the last 30 years at least.

Brady had the best Defenses of any QB over the last 20 years and the best coach by far of the last 2 decades.

Brady maxed the gifts he has but he was very lucky. Just remember his first 3 Super bowls. Watch the Bucs go 8-8. It was BB, not Brady. As to the digs on Arod, that's how Mac trained him tbh. MLF deserves much credit for turning Rodgers career back on track. I agree Rodgers now is better than Brady ever was.

1st post

[Jaire]

Rodgers >>>> Brady

Rodgers had the worst defenses of any HoF QB, worse than Marino. The rankings don't lie. I only just realized how much better ARod is than any QB of the last 30 years at least.

Brady had the best Defenses of any QB over the last 20 years and the best coach by far of the last 2 decades. Brady maxed the gifts he has but he was very lucky. Just remember his first 3 Super bowls. Watch the Bucs go 8-8. It was BB, not Brady. As to the digs on Arod, that's how Mac trained him tbh. MLF deserves much credit for turning Rodgers career back on track. I agree Rodgers now is better than Brady ever was.

[Jaire]

Rodgers >> Brady

Rodgers had the worst defenses of any HoF QB, worse than Marino. Favre had 8 top ten D's; Rodgers just 2, one of which allowed 51 points in the shootout in the desert. The rankings don't lie. I only just realized how much better ARod is than any QB of the last 30 years at least.

Brady had the best Defenses of any QB over the last 20 years and the best coach by far of the last 2 decades.

Brady maxed the gifts he has but he was very lucky. Just see his first 3 Super bowls. Watch the Bucs go 8-8. It was BB, not Brady. As to the digs on Arod, that's how Mac trained him tbh. MLF deserves much credit for turning Rodgers career back on track. I agree Rodgers now is better than Brady ever was.

BB is consistent greatness. Brady road that gravy train.

[texaspackerbacker]

Rodgers now over Brady ever.

Absodamnlutely!

[MadtownPacker]

Jaire - Your account has been fully activated and your post are viewable by everyone now. Welcome to the forum.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers >> Brady

Rodgers had the worst defenses of any HoF QB, worse than Marino. Favre had 8 top ten D's; Rodgers just 2, one of which allowed 51 points in the shootout in the desert. The rankings don't lie. I only just realized how much better ARod is than any QB of the last 30 years at least.

Brady had the best Defenses of any QB over the last 20 years and the best coach by far of the last 2 decades.

Brady maxed the gifts he has but he was very lucky. Just see his first 3 Super bowls. Watch the Bucs go 8-8. It was BB, not Brady. As to the digs on Arod, that's how Mac trained him tbh. MLF deserves much credit for turning Rodgers career back on track. I agree Rodgers now is better than Brady ever was.

BB is consistent greatness. Brady road that gravy train.

In some ways, yes. Brady had better teams. I wouldn’t say he rode the gravy train tho. Brady is the most patient assassin I’ve ever seen. I’ve seen him go whole games without throwing the ball down field and then the one play where it’s there, he makes it. Rodgers forced things for a lot of years.

Last year was the best I’ve ever seen Rodgers play, mentally. I’m not surprised in the least it’s turned into this as his guys developed around him and he grew in the system.

Rodgers now over Brady ever. Rodgers now over any QB I’ve seen.

[Jaire]

Sorry about the repeat posts.

Brady honed his skills and strengths to perfection. But BB had a lot to do with that and with giving him every opportunity to succeed. I would put Brady over Manning but not Rodgers who in hind sight was given the Marino hand. Just compare Favre's defenses 1993 to 1998. Some of that is the devastating injuries to the secondary from 2011 to 2016.

The Bucs are pretty loaded right now. The truth is Arod only had the opportunity in 2010 and 2014. I'm not sure Pettine is going to give him that opportunity.

As far as Rodgers playing his best now. He did that in 2009 through 2011 also. I don't think Rodgers could have done much different since Mac's system was figured out in 2011. Not much Rodgers could do but play perfect ball which he frequently did even in 2018 and 2019 at times. The difference now is that the game no longer rests entirely on him and he's made the adjustments he needed.

"Rodgers now over Brady ever. Rodgers now over any QB I’ve seen." Agreed. And MLF deserves some credit in properly motivating the changes Rodgers needed to make. AFIK MLF just told AR to look at his 2010 play. Rodgers is self motivated. Not sure many coaches would have handled that right.

[bobblehead]

Rodgers >> Brady

Rodgers had the worst defenses of any HoF QB, worse than Marino. Favre had 8 top ten D's; Rodgers just 2, one of which allowed 51 points in the shootout in the desert. The rankings don't lie. I only just realized how much better ARod is than any QB of the last 30 years at least.

Brady had the best Defenses of any QB over the last 20 years and the best coach by far of the last 2 decades.

Brady maxed the gifts he has but he was very lucky. Just see his first 3 Super bowls. Watch the Bucs go 8-8. It was BB, not Brady. As to the digs on Arod, that's how Mac trained him tbh. MLF deserves much credit for turning Rodgers career back on track. I agree Rodgers now is better than Brady ever was.

BB is consistent greatness. Brady road that gravy train.

Rankings can lie. Rodgers is great and its a tough comparison. Brady's greatest strength happens to also be Rodgers greatest weakness. The willingness to take the ball out of his own hands and audible to a run when the D is handing it to him.

Welcome back.

[RashanGary]

Brady's greatest strength happens to also be Rodgers greatest weakness. The willingness to take the ball out of his own hands and audible to a run when the D is handing it to him.

Welcome back.

That and taking short dump offs. Rodgers would literally line up and attack half the field on almost every play. 70% pass. Occasional short outs to WRs and then the rest intermediate to deep.

Brady, consistently, has understood and committed to the run game as part of his play selection attack. He’s consistently pressured the short middle, flats and RB option routes. He also consistently attacks the intermediate and deep parts of the field. For years he’s taken what is given and attacked the whole field.

That’s why I said AR played the best football of his career last year. Outside of rarely throwing over the middle, he attacked, consistently as it was available, all parts of the field. A complete 180 from his narrow and predictable attack style.

[smuggler]

Good question as that's boiling it down to the lowest level. All things equal (same coach, same players outside of QB), who would you take Rodgers or Brady.

This is a classic case of an embarrassment of wealth. I don't know the name of the trope, but there's no worries if you're rolling with Ice Man or Maverick. You're good.

[bobblehead]

Rankings can lie. Rodgers is great and its a tough comparison. Brady's greatest strength happens to also be Rodgers greatest weakness. The willingness to take the ball out of his own hands and audible to a run when the D is handing it to him.

Welcome back.

And just so I don't get accused of criticizing Rodgers (a mortal sin to some) he does something Brady would never do. How many 4th and 3 (or 5 or 7) have we seen Rodgers take the top off the defense for a 50+ yard TD with game on the line. He is the only QB I have ever seen who is confident enough to throw deep in those settings instead of settling for a first down where failure means game is over.

[smuggler]

If I know my team and coach are good, I guess I can see the argument for choosing Brady.

If I don't know how good the team and coach are going to be, I'll take Rodgers and hope he can pull some witchcraft.

[RashanGary]

2253
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Has hardly had his two biggest weapons healthy together and putting up MVP type pace with a hand tied behind his back with the Jones/adams injuries. Packers get healthy, plus a fairly favorable schedule, and he could be making a strong push. Would be cool of he keeps pace with Mahommes and Wilson and then has a couple big ones at the end to leave that final memory in the minds of the voters and take home his 3rd MVP

[run pMc]

I think he's a strong candidate.
I also think the schedule has a few favorable games ahead (JAX, PHI, CAR) but I wouldn't call it easy sledding with CHI twice, DET (who are unpredictable), TEN, and IND.
Even PHI or CAR could cause them trouble, depending on who is healthy for each team. GB could go 4-4 down the stretch, and they'll need to do much better than that for him to be MVP.

Something tells me it goes to Wilson this year.

[texaspackerbacker]

Rodgers as a matter of fact is the most valuable/greatest. However, with regard to winning the award, the team of whoever will rule the day - Wilson, Mahomes, maybe even Jackson, maybe even Brady, heaven forbid, if Tampa won it all. That's just the way things happen.

[smuggler]

Voting for MVP takes place after week 17.

[Patler]

I could not care less who wins MVP, All-Pro or any other such award.
Awards such as that stopped having much meaning to me many years ago.

[texaspackerbacker]

And just so I don't get accused of criticizing Rodgers (a mortal sin to some) he does something Brady would never do. How many 4th and 3 (or 5 or 7) have we seen Rodgers take the top off the defense for a 50+ yard TD with game on the line. He is the only QB I have ever seen who is confident enough to throw deep in those settings instead of settling for a first down where failure means game is over.

It seems like I've heard a lot of criticism of that over the years - since it is risky and many times doesn't work. The criticism, though, I think was mostly directed at McCarthy.

[Fritz]

I could not care less who wins MVP, All-Pro or any other such award.
Awards such as that stopped having much meaning to me many years ago.

I could care less, but not a lot less, as I hardly care now.

I will say I've always thought that the number-of-championships part is way, way overrated. At least in the NFL and in baseball. Maybe in the NBA, where you've only got five guys on the floor, one person can make more of a difference. But the greatest QB of all time could not win a SB with a bunch of high schoolers.

[run pMc]

Yup

[Zool]

I could care less, but not a lot less, as I hardly care now.

I will say I've always thought that the number-of-championships part is way, way overrated. At least in the NFL and in baseball. Maybe in the NBA, where you've only got five guys on the floor, one person can make more of a difference. But the greatest QB of all time could not win a SB with a bunch of high schoolers.



Hey you leave Dan Marino out of this.

[RashanGary]

I'd go Mahommes/Rodgers followed by Wilson and then a bunch of guys still in the hunt right now.

Mahommes does it with a little more raw physical arm and leg talent and Rodgers does it by bringing out the best in the 11 guys he works with a little better. Wilson is kind of a cross. All three playing really good football.

I think we all know there's a lot to football, a lot to QB play and a lot to winning, and there are other guys who are great players and in the true conversation. But this is a world where people trust stats more than their eyes or their wisdom.

Rodgers leading the league in touchdowns. Wilson has a chance to match him but id say thats unlikely as Philly is an awful matchup for them. Wilson has completion percentage and Mahommes the fewest interceptions. So all three, statistically, making a case.


I'm a bigger fan of Rodgers than the other guys. I've watched his evolution as a leader, person and football player, so I hope Rodgers puts up numbers that give him one more MVP.

[RashanGary]

Mahommes situation is simplified. He has Tyreek Hill, a do it all player with generational deep ability. A probable HOfer. He has kelce, a do it all TE whos a HOF possession receiver. And then he has an excellent OL and a bunch of upper tier, KC Chief HOF level guys to boot.

It's a little easier to look good with two HOFers to toss the rock to.


Wilson and Rodgers both doing it with various handicaps compared to Mahommes. I give AR the edge because he's doing it a little more consistently than Wilson and with a little less to work with than Mahommes.

[texaspackerbacker]

Rodgers makes throws that probably nobody other than Mahomes could make. He also reads defenses like nobody else now or maybe in history. Assuming the MVP vote is after the Super Bowl, give it to whichever one of the two beats the other on the field and wins it all.

I may be just a little bit biased hahahaha, but Rodgers is still the better of the two, though. He does it with slightly lesser players around him than Mahomes has, and while Mahomes is pretty good at being careful and not throwing picks, he is not quote on Rodgers' level in that respect.

[smuggler]

The MVP vote is at the conclusion of the regular season, since it is strictly a regular season award. At this point, I would give the edge to ARod because the stats are close (Rodgers slightly ahead in TDs and passer rating, Mahomes in INTs and total yards), but Rodgers was missing Adams and Lazard (hah) for a bunch of time this season and Tyreek Hill is kind of a cheat code for Mahomes. Really, he's just the milk chocolate version of Rodgers, so it's hard to cheer against Mahomes. I think, by season's end, Mahomes will probably have it because he is going to have a better record and the Chiefs are going to face easier competition down the stretch which will help him get a statistical edge in the last five weeks of the season.

Russ is pretty much out of it at this point. He's lost his lead in TD passes to Rodgers and all the other numbers don't look nearly as good without that TD margin.

[Joemailman]

Aaron Rodgers is 37 today.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/bbd90f898651c1913f5f6bfdf403b70e/tenor.gif

[Upnorth]

I justvappreciate how the whole team is trying to help him out. The receivers getting open. The running backs for play action. The o lines amazing blocking. But most of all the d for keeping the other team in no matter what kind of lead we have built. Very under appreciated comtribution I think.

[MadtownPacker]

Aaron Rodgers is 37 today.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/bbd90f898651c1913f5f6bfdf403b70e/tenor.gifIf he hasn’t he should make peace with his family.

[smuggler]

They'll probably need to wait until he's retired, Mad, since coattailing his fortune and fame seemed to be the issue.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Aaron Rodgers is 37 today.

]

And I was born the very next day, the third of December, in the year of Moses.

If not for biological biases, I’d be a greybeard shutdown corner today for the New England Patriots. Alvarez personally told me that I was too short and too pale to play cornerback for the Wisconsin Badgers.

No wonder I am so fond of NFL oddities. Taylor Rapp. Marquette King. Younghoe Koo. #30 of the Broncos.

Btw, I haven’t celebrated my own birthday since I turned 27. All the day does is remind me that I am past my prime. 40 on the horizon, and I am still flipping burgers for the minimum wage. Still living a wretched life devoid of marriage.

Thanks, Alvarez. :x

[texaspackerbacker]

I thought you were already beyond 40 hahahahaha. Happy Birthday even though you don't celebrate it. I can believe still flipping burgers, but the minimum wage part I don't buy. They give raises every 6-12 months to anybody who isn't a total fuck up - and if that's you, you wouldn't have lasted this long on the job. I say again, there are millions - literally - of slim pretty Filipinas who would absolutely love to marry you and be devoted to you for life.

[hoosier]

I think I need to disinfect my screen.

[gbgary]

right in the middle of it. at this point probably 2nd by a tiny bit. his stark improvement over the last several seasons is great.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I thought you were already beyond 40 hahahahaha. Happy Birthday even though you don't celebrate it. I can believe still flipping burgers, but the minimum wage part I don't buy. They give raises every 6-12 months to anybody who isn't a total fuck up - and if that's you, you wouldn't have lasted this long on the job. I say again, there are millions - literally - of slim pretty Filipinas who would absolutely love to marry you and be devoted to you for life.

Almost 40. About the same age as the Great Arm of Butte.

At the burger joint that enslaves me, all employees get a 2% raise each year, slackers and hard workers alike. When the cost of living increases by 4-15% annually, I’m pretty much swimming in a perpetual sea of negative minimum-wage.

Speaking of Filipina chicks, when I was young and institutionalized, I did have a crush on a “slim pretty” Filipina-American. But she was always into black guys, so I never made a move. I also had a chick Filipina friend. She was kinda chubby and our relationship was plutonic. I still check her Facebook page from time to time. Looks like she has lost some weight.

Goddamn, time flies by faster than the speed of fuck.

[gbgary]

Almost 40. About the same age as the Great Arm of Butte.

At the burger joint that enslaves me, all employees get a 2% raise each year, slackers and hard workers alike. When the cost of living increases by 4-15% annually, I’m pretty much swimming in a perpetual sea of negative minimum-wage.

Speaking of Filipina chicks, when I was young and institutionalized, I did have a crush on a “slim pretty” Filipina-American. But she was always into black guys, so I never made a move. I also had a chick Filipina friend. She was kinda chubby and our relationship was plutonic. I still check her Facebook page from time to time. Looks like she has lost some weight.

Goddamn, time flies by faster than the speed of fuck.

ha! ya got that right. smh

[RashanGary]

A few great seasons, but Rodgers is week by week knocking off the competition.

Adams is the true weapon
Jones is a great 2nd
Lizard, MVS and Tonyan are excellent run/pass pieces who open up both with equal consistency. And MVS stretches the field


After that, Mercedes has a great extra OL type package WITH intermediate and short receiving threat

Williams is one of the best third down backs in the league

EQ opens up spread options and gives rest to the other guys


Those are the weapons and they're a great compliment to a good OL and HOf QB who like to.mix run and pass.


Unstoppable. 12 gets MVP but it's just a perfect mix of talents for run and pass!! With complimentary role players that can attack big or small of the defense is weaker in one area.



Go Pack Go!!!

[RashanGary]

Can win in bad weather with Mercedes, Tonyan and Lizard.
Can win on a fast track with Tonyan, Lizard and MVS
Can beat teams with shoddy secondaries by bringing in EQ more
Can beat teams with shoddy run defenders by going with Mercedes more


It's just the right amount of reliable all around talent with a perfect mix of specialty pieces. A truly special offense! It's exciting to watch, week after week!



And I mean, to Brandon's credit we had no idea Tonyan would be a top 10 TE and no idea lizard would develop so much or MVS. But to all of our credit, that is how the NFL has always worked. Young players get better and some of them get a lot better. It's not like some miracle when a so/so young NFL player grows into a really good veteran one. Happens every year. Literally, dozens of times.

[smuggler]

I sort of saw the possibility with Tonyan. More in 2018 than in his injury-plagued 2019. But if you asked me in August which was more likely, 500 yards from Sternberger or 500 from Tonyan, I would have guessed wrong.

[texaspackerbacker]

I praised Tonyan all along and criticized Sternberger. But if I take credit for that, I guess I also have to cop to saying they should get rid of Marcedes Lewis. I'm also thinking Deguara will be a bust, but I hope I'm wrong about that too.

[CaptainKickass]

More fuel for the MVP



Consider this: Aaron Rodgers has more touchdown passes (39) than JK Scott has punts (38) in 2020, and Mason Crosby has only attempted 15 field goals.

[CaptainKickass]

And one more for the history books


Rodgers is the first player in NFL history to have nine games in a season with three-plus touchdowns and zero INTs.

[smuggler]

Three games to go. Do it three more times and get the 48 TDs!

[texaspackerbacker]

Don't bet against it hahahaha.

[Joemailman]

Aaron Rodgers aiming to become the 3rd QB in NFL history to have 40 or more TD passes and 8 or fewer INT"s in a season. The other 2:


Aaron Rodgers in 2016 (40/7)
Aaron Rodgers in 2011 (45/6)

[Fritz]

Aaron Rodgers aiming to become the 3rd QB in NFL history to have 40 or more TD passes and 8 or fewer INT"s in a season. The other 2:


Aaron Rodgers in 2016 (40/7)
Aaron Rodgers in 2011 (45/6)


That would be some elite company he'd be joining.

[smuggler]

Mahomes will also join that list this season.

[texaspackerbacker]

3 picks last game and Mahomes is still on track for less than 8? I see he's at 33 and 5, so maybe.

[MadtownPacker]

I think the championship reign and all that comes with it has finally worn Mahomie out.

Rodgers is clearly the MVP. Fucker has even been doing it with ease throughout the season. Seriously toying with defenses at times.

[CaptainKickass]

40-plus TDs in a single season has only been done 13 times total in NFL history and four players have done it twice: Dan Marino (48 and 44), Peyton Manning (55 and 49), Drew Brees (46 and 43) and Aaron Rodgers (45 and 40). Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, Kurt Warner, Andrew Luck and Matthew Stafford: once. It's not a common occurrence. Rodgers, with one TD becomes the NFL's first QB to have THREE 40-plus TDs in a season.

I haven't verified any of this but if true it really shines a big bright spotlight on the continuity of Rodgers and his excellence at the position

[George Cumby]

I think the championship reign and all that comes with it has finally worn Mahomie out.

Rodgers is clearly the MVP. Fucker has even been doing it with ease throughout the season. Seriously toying with defenses at times.

It's almost surgical.

[RashanGary]

Woot! 12 making me some money!

[gbgary]

mvp race is over.

[Upnorth]

mvp race is over.

If rodgers struggles vrs bears and mahomes is excellent I think it flips the other way. Recency bias plus most of the season it was mahomes and Wilson then mahomes and rodgers according to the media. Factor the brain washing and bad week 17 possible outcome and it is still not a lock.

[Fritz]

If rodgers struggles vrs bears and mahomes is excellent I think it flips the other way. Recency bias plus most of the season it was mahomes and Wilson then mahomes and rodgers according to the media. Factor the brain washing and bad week 17 possible outcome and it is still not a lock.

That makes sense. What have you done for me lately? - As Janet Jackson used to say.

[GB-Brandon]

Rodgers is ahead of Mahommes in so many key statistics. It would take a horrible game plus a loss to Bears plus a great game by Mahommes plus Chiefs win.

I feel good about this!!!

[RashanGary]

Chiefs locked up 1 seed. Doubt Mahommes and chiefs will do anything other than simple plays to practice fundamentals.

Bears D is really good though. 75% chance its Rodgers

[Joemailman]

Good chance Mahomes won't play at all. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30613302/andy-reid-rest-some-kansas-city-chiefs-starters-vs-los-angeles-chargers

[CaptainKickass]

We're all a little bit spoiled methinks



Rodgers became the first quarterback since Steve Young in 1992 to lead the NFL in in passing touchdowns, passer rating, completion percentage, touchdown percentage and interception percentage.(regular season) He now holds the top two passer rating seasons of all-time and is the only quarterback in NFL history with two seasons of 120.0 or greater.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Mahomes will also join that list this season.

And he didn't. :) The list is now:

Aaron Rodgers in 2016 (40/7)
Aaron Rodgers in 2011 (45/6)
Aaron Rodgers in 2020 (48/5)

[Upnorth]

And he didn't. :) The list is now:

Aaron Rodgers in 2016 (40/7)
Aaron Rodgers in 2011 (45/6)
Aaron Rodgers in 2020 (48/5)

So does that mean next season is 51 / 4?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Too bad he didn’t go 44/6 in 2011. That would have been a cool pattern.

[texaspackerbacker]

If this was an SAT question, the correct answer would be 49/4 next season.

[RashanGary]

If this was an SAT question, the correct answer would be 49/4 next season.

Haha, leave it to School to school us.

[HarveyWallbangers]

If this was an SAT question, the correct answer would be 49/4 next season.

I’m lost. How about 53/4?

[Zool]

I’m lost. How about 53/4?

Correct. You have to take the years out to get this answer.

Leaving the years in, it would be 43/6 in 2025

[RashanGary]

It would be 49/4 in 2015. Facts.

[Upnorth]

He was just named the MVP by the pfwa.