Marquez Valdez-Scantling and Preston

[RashanGary]

MVS is the most polarizing player on the Packers right now followed by Preston Smith.

MVS has a bunch of deep passes caught in his first 2.5 seasons. He’s been hit or miss and streaky at best. He’s an oddly effective blocker for being so skinny. He gets in the way and tries hard and doesn’t get called for holding.

MVS also drops short to intermediate passes with alarming regularity and it’s even worse when it’s mildly contested. His route tree is so limited, it’s crossers and seams with nothing in between.

I, the resident homer, do see his strengths being highlighted more once Lizard is back. He’s a huge liability now, but I expect him to be big down the stretch if he can settle into a more limited role and asked to do more of what he’s good at and taken out when the situations don’t fit his skillset. A big play specialist I guess is what I’d call him.


Preston is the next most polarizing player. He’s made some big plays, mostly last year. He seemed to have come into the season a bit out of shape. His speed rush, that he was winning with last year is non existent.

Preston is however stable in the run game, has made the occasional flash play and looks surprisingly fluid and effective in space.

I, the resident homer, don’t see him as a long term piece. With King looking expendable and Jones too, and maybe even Bakh on top of that, maybe you keep him one more year and cut ties after 2021. He, and kirksey, are at the top of the cut list if you want to keep Bakh though. I don’t see Bakh commanding the dollar amount he wanted with the Covid affected free agency and I’d be more than happy to sacrifice kirksey and Preston to keep the sacred cow

[RashanGary]

I wouldn’t mind seeing MVS kept long term on a small contract as a #4 WR, but in a specialist role. I don’t think he has much value, but I do think in the right role, it’s not a wasted roster spot if you just have him run seam routes all day to keep the safeties at bay.

[RashanGary]

Adams, Lazard, hopefully Malik Taylor evolves into a player and then MVS as a specialist doesn’t bother me as much as him being the #2, every down WR that he is right now.

[GB-Brandon]

MVS needs to be washed out of your mouth like Geronimo Allison was last year and Janis was the year before. The Packers need to start getting serious about the WR position and quit treating it like an after thought if they want to be a true contender and play with the BIG BOYS!!!

[GB-Brandon]

You go to K-Mart and buy shoes at K-Mart and then you expect them to be like “Real Nike’s” is just Insane!!! That’s what the Packers have been doing for years now at the WR position outside of Adams who was drafted by Thompson years ago in the 2nd round!

[texaspackerbacker]

Polarizing generally means some people like them, some don't. I haven't heard anybody say much good about Preston Smith for quite a while hahahaha.

I'd call Bakhtiari polarizing, but I guess I haven't heard much of anybody except me not totally in love with him.

The closest I can think of associated with the Packers that is anywhere near 50/50 polarizing is Pettine as D Coordinator.

Valdez-Scantling is a little bit polarizing, I guess, but those of us on the good side are starting to have doubts, and even most of the detractors like his potential and are hoping he begins to catch the ball regularly. I'll throw out an idea for MVS. Let him return kicks. with that speed and ability to turn the corner, he could be something special - assuming he didn't muff the catch hahahaha.

[GB-Brandon]

I’m on the fence with Preston Smith. Have to see how he finishes out the season. Not sure he is worth his contract at this point. Pass rush is everything so if he can turn it around the he stays if they can make the cap work because to me Gary is bonafide JAG!!!!

[GB-Brandon]

Polarizing generally means some people like them, some don't. I haven't heard anybody say much good about Preston Smith for quite a while hahahaha.

I'd call Bakhtiari polarizing, but I guess I haven't heard much of anybody except me not totally in love with him.

The closest I can think of associated with the Packers that is anywhere near 50/50 polarizing is Pettine as D Coordinator.

Valdez-Scantling is a little bit polarizing, I guess, but those of us on the good side are starting to have doubts, and even most of the detractors like his potential and are hoping he begins to catch the ball regularly. I'll throw out an idea for MVS. Let him return kicks. with that speed and ability to turn the corner, he could be something special - assuming he didn't muff the catch hahahaha.

At this point your wasting a roster spot with MVS. You need to improve that roster sport either through the draft or Free agency or trade is the bottom line!!

I would prefer they replace him through the draft this off-season! It won’t be hard!!

[GB-Brandon]

MVS has had two years to sit there and have no real competition come in and be all comfy. it’s time to blow up the receiver group. I want massive talent that can play ball!! They are out there. It’s Gute’s job to get them.

[texaspackerbacker]

Getting shoes at K-Mart, Brandon, - if it still exists there/it doesn't here - is a good idea when the amount you can spend is limited (like with a salary cap). Sometimes, you get the big name, and all you're paying for is the name. I'd say that works just as well for WRs as it does shoes. Our recent K-Mart ILB seems to be a comfortable fit.

[GB-Brandon]

Getting shoes at K-Mart, Brandon, - if it still exists there/it doesn't here - is a good idea when the amount you can spend is limited (like with a salary cap). Sometimes, you get the big name, and all you're paying for is the name. I'd say that works just as well for WRs as it does shoes. Our recent K-Mart ILB seems to be a comfortable fit.

That’s not it. That’s a LIE! It’s that everyone is getting all stirred up and delusional over a 5th round pick from 3 years ago that isn’t working out and it really isn’t a big surprise. That’s all this team has really invested through the draft other then then the two others they drafted in mid to late rounds with him. Lazard is someone they got lucky with as an UDFA which is great however there has not been enough commitment through the draft to the build a formidable receiving Corp that does not require massive cap space.

They have made the choice to invest in other areas I don’t care to list but to say the Packers can’t have premiere receivers because of cap space simply isn’t true.

My bottom line is that when I take in the current landscape of the NFL and the teams the Packers will need to beat to win it all we are not strong enough at the “Weapon/Receiver” or whatever you want to call it position to achieve greatness. That is my opinion. I saw it against Tampa. You can believe otherwise. I would suggest/recommend a trade in this department as soon as possible to increase our chances.

Thats my take!

[RashanGary]

Tonyans development and Lizards have limited the pain of fully relying on MVS for much of anything this year. It’s hard for me to let go of his big deep catches, but i might be wrong.

Even with Tonyan and Lazard stepping up, MVS has been a liability. I don’t want to see him do anything but crossers and seams. There are only so many situations in football where those are welcome and helpful, so I hope to see Tonyan, Adams and Lizard be the guys with MVS in a really part time and decoy type role.

[RashanGary]

To Brandon’s never ending point, we are probably one quality WR (plus Lazard coming back) from being unstoppable.

[Zool]

Tonyans development and Lizards have limited the pain of fully relying on MVS for much of anything this year. It’s hard for me to let go of his big deep catches, but i might be wrong.

Even with Tonyan and Lazard stepping up, MVS has been a liability. I don’t want to see him do anything but crossers and seams. There are only so many situations in football where those are welcome and helpful, so I hope to see Tonyan, Adams and Lizard be the guys with MVS in a really part time and decoy type role.

Well he's a much better blocker than Taylor.....so he's got that going for him which is nice.

[GB-Brandon]

To Brandon’s never ending point, we are probably one quality WR (plus Lazard coming back) from being unstoppable.

There you go. That is the “Vision.” Why would Gute not want to make that vision a reality. I would be so on board!!!

[GB-Brandon]

There you go. That is the “Vision.” Why would Gute not want to make that vision a reality. I would be so on board!!!

That gives me “The Vision Of Super Bowl Parade” in front of my house!!!

[GB-Brandon]

Go Make “The Vision A Reality” Gute!!!!


https://youtu.be/ZLG52PN1RgM

[texaspackerbacker]

Brandon, about the only one stirred up about the Packer receiver situation is you. 13-3 and 5-1 says we are in pretty good shape there and elsewhere. The fact that a lot of the production comes from players picked up at K-Mart prices, using your metaphor, makes that all the more impressive.

As for MVS, he hasn't really been a liability. He just hasn't been the high grade asset many expected based on his size, speed, etc. He has been damn good, though, for a 5th round "K-Mart" pick. IMO, he will get better.

[RashanGary]

There you go. That is the “Vision.” Why would Gute not want to make that vision a reality. I would be so on board!!!

It’s a idea. It has a chance of working. Cooks is probably best bet. He’s a vet who could click sooner with 12. Plus, he’s available

[RashanGary]

Cooks has played with Brees, Brady, Goff and Watson. He probably understands what QBs want fairly well. It’s not the worst idea. With Lazard back, we’d be pretty good. But I think we might be pretty good without cooks, once Lazard comes back and we’re pretty good now. So it’s a risk/reward equation.

[RashanGary]

Sure makes ya wonder why nobody wants him tho.... risky

[beveaux1]

I'll be somewhat surprised if we trade for a vet receiver, especially this year with the high-end players we have on the last year of their contracts, the cap space we have presently, and the almost certain drop in next year's cap.

[GB-Brandon]

Cooks has played with Brees, Brady, Goff and Watson. He probably understands what QBs want fairly well. It’s not the worst idea. With Lazard back, we’d be pretty good. But I think we might be pretty good without cooks, once Lazard comes back and we’re pretty good now. So it’s a risk/reward equation.

Yep, Cooks is the one I’ve been posting about. Ran this offense with Rams. Has an out in his contract after this season. Perfect Fit!

[RashanGary]

Yep, Cooks is the one I’ve been posting about. Ran this offense with Rams. Has an out in his contract after this season. Perfect Fit!

Yeah, you’re making sense. On paper, it sounds great. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn’t. Nobody really wanting to invest in him as a core player says a lot. We have a locker room of really good guys and a staff that talks about family and commitment. There are things that affect the team that don’t show up on a lineup sheet, like trust, motivation, moral, etc..... If the Packers bring in Cook this year and pay him a bunch of millions of dollars and then let Jones go next year, it’s a bad look. It sure doesn’t match up with the family atmosphere they’re trying to pretend they have so guys buy in or do have. You have to consider everything and everyone because we need these guys to want to be here. People perform better when they feel cared about, respected and committed to.

If we lose Bakh or King or Jones next year, guys everyone loves and who play well, while they’re paying millions to guys from other teams, it’s a really bad look and honestly, bad karma overall.

I would definitely consider the locker room when I make any and every decision. It sounds good to say, “you make millions, shut up and play.” It feels good coming off the tongue, but in real life, where people actually feel betrayed or let down by other people, it’s asking for trouble to back stab your guys financially for your own glory.

I think guys understand it’s a business, but they still play better when they feel like the guys they’re working for and with do everything they can to make sure they take care of each other when it’s possible.

Needless to say, I’m big on the win with your guys mentality and the stick together mentality. Even if the brutal cold actions of NE paid off, I’d rather be a fan of a team that wins one every 10 years with some fucking morals that I can feel good about

[GB-Brandon]

Brandon, about the only one stirred up about the Packer receiver situation is you. 13-3 and 5-1 says we are in pretty good shape there and elsewhere. The fact that a lot of the production comes from players picked up at K-Mart prices, using your metaphor, makes that all the more impressive.

As for MVS, he hasn't really been a liability. He just hasn't been the high grade asset many expected based on his size, speed, etc. He has been damn good, though, for a 5th round "K-Mart" pick. IMO, he will get better.

I don’t care about “Winning Seasons” Tex. I care about “Winning a Super Bowl”

Get with the program!!

Second place trophy’s don’t mean shit to me.

[GB-Brandon]

Yeah, you’re making sense. On paper, it sounds great. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn’t. Nobody really wanting to invest in him as a core player says a lot. We have a locker room of really good guys and a staff that talks about family and commitment. There are things that affect the team that don’t show up on a lineup sheet, like trust, motivation, moral, etc..... If the Packers bring in Cook this year and pay him a bunch of millions of dollars and then let Jones go next year, it’s a bad look. It sure doesn’t match up with the family atmosphere they’re trying to pretend they have so guys buy in or do have. You have to consider everything and everyone because we need these guys to want to be here. People perform better when they feel cared about, respected and committed to.

If we lose Bakh or King or Jones next year, guys everyone loves and who play well, while they’re paying millions to guys from other teams, it’s a really bad look and honestly, bad karma overall.

I would definitely consider the locker room when I make any and every decision. It sounds good to say, “you make millions, shut up and play.” It feels good coming off the tongue, but in real life, where people actually feel betrayed or let down by other people, it’s asking for trouble to back stab your guys financially for your own glory.

I think guys understand it’s a business, but they still play better when they feel like the guys they’re working for and with do everything they can to make sure they take care of each other when it’s possible.

Needless to say, I’m big on the win with your guys mentality and the stick together mentality. Even if the brutal cold actions of NE paid off, I’d rather be a fan of a team that wins one every 10 years with some fucking morals that I can feel good about


They Know deep down inside what they are missing. Everyone was shocked they didn’t draft a receiver including Adams. They tried to give these guys opportunities and run with it and were a little short. They should be the first one’s saying yeah go get us help to make us ELITE! Why would they not want to be part of something that has to the potential to be ELITE and get a Super Bowl Ring instead of being “Pretty Good.” Choose to go down in history as Being Great or protect your Fucken Fragile Feelings? Spare me!!!

[GB-Brandon]

I’m sorry but this isn’t high school football and “Friday Night Lights.” It’s the NFL and the fans pay through the teeth to watch their team put the best team out there to win Championships. Its $400 dollars just for a good seat at Lambeau. I want to see “Greatness” on the field. We deserve this as fans. If “Feel Good Stories” happen through the natural development of the team then great but this is about “Winning” and doing what puts you in the best interest of “Winning.”

[GB-Brandon]

So we should all be held hostage of winning a Fucken Super Bowl for the “Feel Good Story” of a few guys that got a chance and couldn’t get the job done?

Fuck That!!!

[RashanGary]

I’m sorry but this isn’t high school football and “Friday Night Lights.” It’s the NFL and the fans pay through the teeth to watch their team put the best team out there to win Championships. Its $400 dollars just for a good seat at Lambeau. I want to see “Greatness” on the field. We deserve this as fans. If “Feel Good Stories” happen through the natural development of the team then great but this is about “Winning” and doing what puts you in the best interest of “Winning.”

I have some good, cold hearted attitudes toward life, but when I have to go to work and look a mf in the eye while I screw him over, my cold hearted intentions suddenly become a little harder to follow through with. From your perspective, not being there to see the hurt in their eyes when they’re let go, it’s easier to make paper champion visions. I don’t know if it’s that easy for Gute. And I don’t know that it’s good for our chances of winning a SB (of which, we’re poised to make a run at for several years.)

Look, I’m smelling what you’re stepping in and understanding your viewpoint, but I have some other thoughts too. We’re not all gonna agree with each other all of the time.

Jones is almost a sure casualty. He’s the best guy ever. That alone means you better, if you want the team to trust you at all, do what you can for as many as you can. Business is business, but giving a shit is good business too, if you want guys to play for you and buy in.

[GB-Brandon]

I have some good, cold hearted attitudes toward life, but when I have to go to work and look a mf in the eye while I screw him over, my cold hearted intentions suddenly become a little harder to follow through with. From your perspective, not being there to see the hurt in their eyes when they’re let go, it’s easier to make paper champion visions. I don’t know if it’s that easy for Gute. And I don’t know that it’s good for our chances of winning a SB (of which, we’re poised to make a run at for several years.)

Look, I’m smelling what you’re stepping in and understanding your viewpoint, but I have some other thoughts too. We’re not all gonna agree with each other all of the time.

Jones is almost a sure casualty. He’s the best guy ever. That alone means you better, if you want the team to trust you at all, do what you can for as many as you can. Business is business, but giving a shit is good business too, if you want guys to play for you and buy in.


You have to look at guys in the eye when it’s a 90 man roster and cut it all the way down to 53 when they have worked their ass off all year to make your team. It’s part of the business. It’s why they make the $ they do. Aaron Jones was always gone. The only way Aaron Jones was getting resigned was if Rodgers came out and tanked this year. The fact that Rodgers is playing the way he is made the decision as far as a cap stand point and Jones not getting re-singed. Had noting to do with GM wanting to be mean to Aaron Jones. I’m sure the GM’s would like to keep lots of players but can’t. Just the nature of how it’s all set up. Geez, you sound like a Packer PR guy I knew that used to cry every time they let a guy go that he liked so much. It’s the nature of the business and most of the players understand. It’s never easy but they are wired for this.

Teams trade for players all the time. The Packers making a trade for a receiver that has zero documented history of being a cancer in the locker room to help them fortify a weak position to help them get over the hump being potentially looked at as a negative by the team is just mind blowing to me. If the team is that Fucken Fragile they aren’t gonna win it all anyways.

[GB-Brandon]

What’s funny is you have finally admitted after all this that “Our Offense Would Be Unstoppable” with another competent receiver but yet now your gonna grasp at straws about “other players feelings” etc etc if the Packers pull the trigger to bring one in.

#Mindless

[Patler]

Re Preston Smith - just before the bye, there was an interesting article about his (lack of) pass rush stats. The point made was that he is playing a very different role this year than last. Last year, Fackrell was the OLB most frequently used to drop into coverage. With Fackrell gone, Preston Smith is picking up most of those responsibilities. His pass rush opportunities are way down this year compared to last. Coach comment was they needed to find ways to give him more pass rush opportunities.

[GB-Brandon]

Kamal Martin PFF Grade “77.3”. He is gonna be a star for us!!!

[GB-Brandon]

Everything is in place. Go get a WR!!!

[GB-Brandon]

Re Preston Smith - just before the bye, there was an interesting article about his (lack of) pass rush stats. The point made was that he is playing a very different role this year than last. Last year, Fackrell was the OLB most frequently used to drop into coverage. With Fackrell gone, Preston Smith is picking up most of those responsibilities. His pass rush opportunities are way down this year compared to last. Coach comment was they needed to find ways to give him more pass rush opportunities.

I expect more effort out of him as the noise was getting loud as well.

[Patler]

Re: MVS - when you are the second most experienced guy in the group, if you aren't an asset, you ARE a liability; and no, he has not been good for a 5th round pick. He's not even a real asset on deep passes because he is so inconsistent. Just because he managed to catch a few doesn't make him an asset. I read a scout or someone comment that he does not seem to track long throws well. This would explain the large number of missed opportunities when he does seem open deep, but he and Rodgers do not connect. Throw in his penchant for dropping catches he should make, and he is not an asset deep, either.

This is a guy who has had an extraordinary opportunity in GB. Young players don't always get the opportunity he has had. He has done nothing with it. In just six games this year, Adams has already missed 2 games, Lazard has missed 3, and MVS has managed to get just 15 receptions playing with them and without them. He had similar wide open opportunities last year, and as a rookie. For his career, he is barely averaging 2 rec/game. He needs to turn it around soon, or be moved aside to give others their shots at making an impact as part of the upper group in the WR combinations.

[GB-Brandon]

Re: MVS - when you are the second most experienced guy in the group, if you aren't an asset, you ARE a liability; and no, he has not been good for a 5th round pick. He's not even a real asset on deep passes because he is so inconsistent. Just because he managed to catch a few doesn't make him an asset. I read a scout or someone comment that he does not seem to track long throws well. This would explain the large number of missed opportunities when he does seem open deep, but he and Rodgers do not connect. Throw in his penchant for dropping catches he should make, and he is not an asset deep, either.



This is a guy who has had an extraordinary opportunity in GB. Young players don't always get the opportunity he has had. He has done nothing with it. In just six games this year, Adams has already missed 2 games, Lazard has missed 3, and MVS has managed to get just 15 receptions playing with them and without them. He had similar wide open opportunities last year, and as a rookie. For his career, he is barely averaging 2 rec/game. He needs to turn it around soon, or be moved aside to give others their shots at making an impact as part of the upper group in the WR combinations.

Yeah, he had a great opportunity against Houston to turn it around too. Instead there was the out pattern where he seemed to be in the wrong place AGAIN which annoyed Rodgers and then the critical drop that stalled yet another drive. When MVS finally “Costs Us A Game” are people going feel Good like we did some great Noble thing?

This guy has been given so many more chances then I can remember any Packer receiver and mainly because the talent drop off after him is significant so they keep swallowing the poison pill and that’s on Gute. At the end of the day nobody should feel guilty about bringing in a better and more accomplished player and telling MVS he has been demoted and feel bad about it. MVS has had way more chances then many many many other talented players trying to make a football team. Once again, this guy is a 5th round pick out of South Florida with some straight line speed so I am not sure how high the expectations should of ever been. He is basically a bigger version of Trevor Davis. I just don’t understand why so many fans have been so enamored with MVS.

[GB-Brandon]

What happens is when MVS can’t make plays against Houston then Rodgers doesn’t trust him against teams like Tampa Bay. It’s that simple.

NEXT!!!

[HarveyWallbangers]

I like Preston Smith. He was good last year. I do think he came into camp out of shape, but he’s getting better. I expect a good finish to the season from him.

People know how I feel about MVS, so I won’t beat that dead horse.

[texaspackerbacker]

I don’t care about “Winning Seasons” Tex. I care about “Winning a Super Bowl”

Get with the program!!

Second place trophy’s don’t mean shit to me.

I know that's one point of view, but it ain't mine. Consistent winning seasons - as the Packers have had for nearly 30 years now, that's what it's all about IMO.

[GB-Brandon]

I know that's one point of view, but it ain't mine. Consistent winning seasons - as the Packers have had for nearly 30 years now, that's what it's all about IMO.

Well buckle up! Packers are gonna make a trade and go all in and try and win the whole damn thing this year!!!

[texaspackerbacker]

Nope. I very much doubt it happens. I Googled Tate and found out the Giants are shopping Zeitler. I wouldn't mind at all getting him.

[RashanGary]

Got your big signing. Seth Roberts to the practice squad!

[GB-Brandon]

Got your big signing. Seth Roberts to the practice squad!

Patience!!! The “Big Trade” is coming. We’ll put you in charge in looking MVS eye to eye and telling him “He Sucks.”

Don’t want the locker room going sideways!!

[GB-Brandon]

The thing about MVS is he ran his mouth all Off-Season too. Appearing on NFL network and acting like he was some established Big Dog offering opinions and all his tweets. If your gonna talk a big game then please back it up.

Nobody should feel sorry about the Packers looking to replace this guy.

[GB-Brandon]

Cooks has played with Brees, Brady, Goff and Watson. He probably understands what QBs want fairly well. It’s not the worst idea. With Lazard back, we’d be pretty good. But I think we might be pretty good without cooks, once Lazard comes back and we’re pretty good now. So it’s a risk/reward equation.


You might want to slow down with Lazard coming back. Just saying. Chirp Chirp!!

[GB-Brandon]

I have some good, cold hearted attitudes toward life, but when I have to go to work and look a mf in the eye while I screw him over, my cold hearted intentions suddenly become a little harder to follow through with. From your perspective, not being there to see the hurt in their eyes when they’re let go, it’s easier to make paper champion visions. I don’t know if it’s that easy for Gute. And I don’t know that it’s good for our chances of winning a SB (of which, we’re poised to make a run at for several years.)

Look, I’m smelling what you’re stepping in and understanding your viewpoint, but I have some other thoughts too. We’re not all gonna agree with each other all of the time.

Jones is almost a sure casualty. He’s the best guy ever. That alone means you better, if you want the team to trust you at all, do what you can for as many as you can. Business is business, but giving a shit is good business too, if you want guys to play for you and buy in.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIosHNpGjTE&feature=share

[run pMc]

MVS is a one trick pony and a #4WR you'll always try to replace and have trouble doing so because he shows just enough to tease. Lazard is a quality #3 who can play some #2, a la James Jones. They need another Lazard, or better yet an heir apparent for Adams. I think that almost has to come from the draft, and then you're probably waiting 2-3 years for them to blossom.

Re: Brandin Cooks, that he's bounced around so much makes me think the guy is a head case or locker lawyer. I like what he can do, but that he's played for so many teams and QBs and hasn't exactly stayed anywhere long is unusual. For a 10 game rental he might be pretty useful in MLF scheme, but I suspect the Texans asking price would be high. I think Gute continues his dumpster diving.

Honestly, the defense is the bigger concern to me. They still struggle to cover the middle of the field, and their pass rush is way off compared to last year. Preston played better vs. Houston. I heard a rumor that he came into camp a little heavier, and I wonder if that's true and is impacting his play.

[RashanGary]

MVS is a one trick pony and a #4WR you'll always try to replace and have trouble doing so because he shows just enough to tease. Lazard is a quality #3 who can play some #2, a la James Jones. They need another Lazard, or better yet an heir apparent for Adams. I think that almost has to come from the draft, and then you're probably waiting 2-3 years for them to blossom.

Re: Brandin Cooks, that he's bounced around so much makes me think the guy is a head case or locker lawyer. I like what he can do, but that he's played for so many teams and QBs and hasn't exactly stayed anywhere long is unusual. For a 10 game rental he might be pretty useful in MLF scheme, but I suspect the Texans asking price would be high. I think Gute continues his dumpster diving.

Honestly, the defense is the bigger concern to me. They still struggle to cover the middle of the field, and their pass rush is way off compared to last year. Preston played better vs. Houston. I heard a rumor that he came into camp a little heavier, and I wonder if that's true and is impacting his play.


I’m kind of with this.

MVS

Deep threat
Decent on crossers
Serviceable blocker
Good guy

Horrible on any other routes besides the two above
Plays WR so shouldn’t be horrible at nearly every route
Poor hands on short to intermediate
Horrible with any type of contested situation



Lazard
Hard to say he’s a 2 or 3 this early. Has #1 potential


Preston
Looks fatter. Always a little chubby but did not look in shape



And defense finally looks to be taking off. Depth at DL has been a pleasant surprise. As DBs get healthier, there’s a chance. Barnes and Greene playing fairly well inside too. Nice surprises. I do see some hope there

[GB-Brandon]

Your leaving out Kamal Martin

[run pMc]

More on MVS, courtesy of acmepackingcompany.com:

MVS spent one game as WR1 (week 4 vs Atlanta) and three games as WR2 (week 3 vs New Orleans, weeks 6-7). MVS’ grand total of production in that time is eight catches for 82 yards and no touchdowns. He has those eight catches on 21 targets, giving him a catch rate of just 38%. His yards-per-target is an atrocious 3.9 yards in those games. Over that time frame, MVS’ yards-per-target would rank dead-last in the NFL among wide receivers. His DVOA this year is the second worst in the league, only ahead of AJ Green, who has actively quit on his team.

I like MVS for his potential, but whenever Rodgers throws his way I assume it's not being caught. I think by end of season he'll be relegated to a handful of snaps and Gute will bring him back to camp with competition. His routes are better but his hands remain iffy and he doesn't track the deep ball well. For his size he's not good with contested catches either. Not trying to dog him -- he was a R5 pick for a reason -- but most of the holes in his game remain.

[RashanGary]

More on MVS, courtesy of acmepackingcompany.com:


I like MVS for his potential, but whenever Rodgers throws his way I assume it's not being caught. I think by end of season he'll be relegated to a handful of snaps and Gute will bring him back to camp with competition. His routes are better but his hands remain iffy and he doesn't track the deep ball well. For his size he's not good with contested catches either. Not trying to dog him -- he was a R5 pick for a reason -- but most of the holes in his game remain.

Pretty much. I think he tracks the deep ball alright, but otherwise agree. He’s made some progress in the other areas but not much. A disappointment but has a small role on the team when the other guys are healthy .

[RashanGary]

MVS on pace for 823 yards with 7 of them over 40.


Definitely not a #2 WR, but I think my situational one trick pony description is holding water

[gbgary]

good game for mvs and gary today.

[run pMc]

MVS on pace for 823 yards with 7 of them over 40.


Definitely not a #2 WR, but I think my situational one trick pony description is holding water

Agree with this. IF he can create a big play per game, opposing defenses will have to respect him. He's a deep threat, and that's really it. He's gotta be more consistent.

I still question his ability to track the ball in the air and his hands. He double clutched that 78 yarder. Maybe I'm being to critical; at least he caught it.
He completely scorched Jones on that play -- ran by and around him so Jones was actually along the sideline. THAT was impressive.

[Tony Oday]

MVS on pace for 823 yards with 7 of them over 40.


Definitely not a #2 WR, but I think my situational one trick pony description is holding water

If he ends up with 800+ yards that is a 2nd WR and an elite 3rd WR if Lazard can come back healthy

[HarveyWallbangers]

If he ends up with 800+ yards that is a 2nd WR and an elite 3rd WR if Lazard can come back healthy

He will get those yards primarily being the #1 or #2 WR because of the injuries to Adams and Lazard, so the yards aren't quite as impressive. The problem is catching consistency. He has poor hands and ball skills. I'm not sure if I trust him in a big playoff game to make the plays that are needed. Having said that, he didn't have any drops yesterday. It was an encouraging game, and he was one of the most important players on the field. One game doesn't mean he suddenly will have good hands, but it's a start.

[RashanGary]

He is leading the league in receptions over 40 yards.

His rookie year and second year, even injured, he finished top 10 in catches over 40 in the NFL.

So he definitely has upper end deep ball production.


I think you’re a lot happier with him in a part time role when you want to stretch the field than an every down guy. His strengths will be highlighted with Adams, Lazard and Tonyan being the every down guys and MVS being used less often but more regularly on the deep stuff.

[GB-Brandon]

HE NEVER SHOWS UP IN BIG GAMES!!!!!! Show me one?

He fits the “Perennial Front Runner Mold” to a tee!!!

Until MVS shows up and makes some big plays in a big game then I don’t want to hear a peep!!!

It’s FRAUD!!!!!!!

[Joemailman]

HE NEVER SHOWS UP IN BIG GAMES!!!!!! Show me one?

He fits the “Perennial Front Runner Mold” to a tee!!!

Until MVS shows up and makes some big plays in a big game then I don’t want to hear a peep!!!

It’s FRAUD!!!!!!!

Every game is big. He made plays on a day when Adams wasn't having a great day and the running game wasn't effective.

https://api.time.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/peeps-belle-contest.jpg

[King Friday]

A one trick pony is worth keeping if that one trick is blowing past opposing DBs like they are standing still. Yeah, MVS ain't gonna be claiming any All Pro honors in his career, but he rips the top off a defense. That is always needed. His threat is what will give the better WRs room to operate.

[RashanGary]

A one trick pony is worth keeping if that one trick is blowing past opposing DBs like they are standing still. Yeah, MVS ain't gonna be claiming any All Pro honors in his career, but he rips the top off a defense. That is always needed. His threat is what will give the better WRs room to operate.

I agree. I don’t know if he’s the guy you want on the field on 3rd and 1 from the opponents 9 yard line. Short field, short yardage. Ugh, he doesn’t bring much to the table there. That’s why Lazard coming back is so important. MVS is completely miscast as an every down player right now. He needs to be a go ball specialist who has crossers and jet sweeps as a change up.

[RashanGary]

If you bring Marquez in, in long field situations and have him run decoy go balls until 12 finds him on one, GREAT! That’s what he’s good for. He has a place in this offense. Even if we had the best 4 all around receivers in the game, 83 would still probably be better running straight go routes on a long field, and would still have a place.

[RashanGary]

It’s like if you had Kingsley Keke, Kampman and Kabeer as your top 3 DEs and it’s goal line and your bring KGB in to take a double. Dude is not a goalline run stuffer. He’s a speed edge rusher. MVS is miscast right now because they have no one to take his short yardage and short field snaps. He’s being forced, because of lack of players better than him, into situations he’s not built for.

We’ll all appreciate 83 more when he’s back to his best role and not being square pegged into some really bad roles for him

[GB-Brandon]

Once again it’s a situation where Gute had multiple opportunities in the draft, free agency, trade dead line etc etc to upgrade a very important piece in the offense. One that I’m sure if you asked Aaron or LaFluer privately they would agree they would like improved and Gute couldn’t get it done. Gute prioritized other things and made them more important then giving us a very important pieces that could significantly improve our chances against better teams. At this stage in Rodgers career you have to almost treat every year as there is “No Tomorrow.” He Will be 37 next year and after all this bullshit Gute has done or “Not Done” Rodgers has perfectly positioned himself to say “Get me the fuck out of here” and it would have merit. Nobody would blame Rodgers one bit.

So it’s more of a situation of here we are and we’re stuck MVS and have to hope for best. Most people knew MVS was never gonna be more then what he has shown but Gute had to show us how smart he is. Just like with EQ and not drafting a receiver for 2 years or a really doing anything. The fact is Gute isn’t that smart at all.

“HOPIUM”

[GB-Brandon]

There is going to be plenty of time for losing. Trust me on that!!!

Plenty of time watch guys like MVS with a 4-12 team. We had a chance for greatness!!!

[Bretsky]

To Brandon’s never ending point, we are probably one quality WR (plus Lazard coming back) from being unstoppable.


I embrace this; assuming we keep the Aaron Squared DUO

[GB-Brandon]

The thing is Rodgers wants to stay. He cares about his legacy and has much more character then a lot of people give him credit for. They should put a statue of him in front of Lambeau field as far as I’m concerned when it’s all said and done!!!

Hopefully Gute has gotten it through his thick skull what he needs to do to finish this thing. NO MORE FUCKEN EXCUSES!!!

[bobblehead]

MVS on pace for 823 yards with 7 of them over 40.


Definitely not a #2 WR, but I think my situational one trick pony description is holding water

He needs 2 things. First he needs to work the juggs machine for 500 catches a week. Second he needs to get it out of his head that he can't afford to drop it. He gets open in the midfield game and could yet develop into a rounded player. The fact that Rodgers continues to go at him will help that confidence. If he can stop thinking too much he can be a consistent #2 field stretcher.

[bobblehead]

Agree with this. IF he can create a big play per game, opposing defenses will have to respect him. He's a deep threat, and that's really it. He's gotta be more consistent.

I still question his ability to track the ball in the air and his hands. He double clutched that 78 yarder. Maybe I'm being to critical; at least he caught it.
He completely scorched Jones on that play -- ran by and around him so Jones was actually along the sideline. THAT was impressive.

I still see James Jones in him (different players, same trajectory). Jones got it in his head and dropped a lot of deep balls early. Its in MVS head at this point. Is he going to be Macky Sasser or will he overcome it.

[bobblehead]

HE NEVER SHOWS UP IN BIG GAMES!!!!!! Show me one?

He fits the “Perennial Front Runner Mold” to a tee!!!

Until MVS shows up and makes some big plays in a big game then I don’t want to hear a peep!!!

It’s FRAUD!!!!!!!

speaking of not wanting to hear a peep....Let me offer this for everyone here.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/42/d0/45/42d045fea13b82644b9bb8e9488671a9.jpg

[bobblehead]

The thing is Rodgers wants to stay. He cares about his legacy and has much more character then a lot of people give him credit for. They should put a statue of him in front of Lambeau field as far as I’m concerned when it’s all said and done!!!

Hopefully Gute has gotten it through his thick skull what he needs to do to finish this thing. NO MORE FUCKEN EXCUSES!!!

His own family disagrees. I have no clue to be honest, but neither do you. He has done some very high character things in his life and he has done a few low rent things. Overall, I'll take him. He ain't Antonio Brown, but he isn't Bart Starr either.

[run pMc]

Until MVS shows up and makes some big plays in a big game then I don’t want to hear a peep!!!
LOL MVS was a major contributor to winning this game. The 78 yard TD, and a couple of 1st downs converted to keep drives going. His 149 yards receiving was almost 50% of Rodgers total passing yardage. If you want to say it wasn't a big game, I might give you that... but it would have been a big game had they lost it. As it is they are 2 games up on the rest of the NFCN. 7-2 is better than 6-3.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I still see James Jones in him (different players, same trajectory). Jones got it in his head and dropped a lot of deep balls early. Its in MVS head at this point. Is he going to be Macky Sasser or will he overcome it.

I don't see it. Jones had one year where he struggled. It was mostly concentration drops, but you could tell his hands, ball skills, and hand-eye coordination weren't the problem. MVS will always drop balls and be poor in 50-50 situations. You just hope he gets good enough where he catches open opportunities. He'd have value with his speed if he just did that.

[HarveyWallbangers]

His own family disagrees. I have no clue to be honest, but neither do you. He has done some very high character things in his life and he has done a few low rent things. Overall, I'll take him. He ain't Antonio Brown, but he isn't Bart Starr either.

Funny. I was just thinking about the character of the Packers legendary QBs this morning. My daughter left out an old magazine I had with Starr, Favre, and Rodgers on the cover. Starr was a class act. Probably as nice and humble as they come. Favre was a ton of fun, gave it his all, but probably was a bit bigger turd as a person than you'd think. Rodgers seems like a petulant child on the field and is definitely arrogant, but probably isn't as big of an asshole as it would seem.

[Upnorth]

Without mvs in the last game we are 6-3. Adams was not Adams and I don't know why.

P Smith was just a guy it seemed like. Sure he got a sack but was kinda meh

[Joemailman]

Packers have never really had the group of WR's they thought they'd have this season. Coming out of the draft I figured their top 5 WR's were:

1. Adams
2. Lazard
3. Funchess
4. St. Brown
5. MVS

1. Adams has missed 2+ games
2.. Lazard had missed 6 games
3. Funchess never played
4. St. Brown missed 4 games
5. MVS has played every game.

[Harlan Huckleby]

A one trick pony is worth keeping if that one trick is blowing past opposing DBs like they are standing still. Yeah, MVS ain't gonna be claiming any All Pro honors in his career, but he rips the top off a defense. That is always needed. His threat is what will give the better WRs room to operate.

The Packers often have carried a WR who simply is a deep threat. I can think of at least 5 players that I can't remember.

edit Corey Bradford was one long ball guy.
Janis

They make plays, worth a roster spot especially if they can do something on special teams

[RashanGary]

MVS gets open deep and doesn't drop the deep ones. It's all the other ones he struggles with and the shorter the pass or more contested, the worse it gets.

As a deep threat though, he's legit. He's leading the league right now and was top 10 in his rookie and injured sophomore seasons. Playing less is good for him, but not playing him in long field situations is absolutely bad for the Packers. He can run that deep stuff and teams have to respect it. You get two solid guys in front of him and bring him in on the long field and he opens everything up underneath as well as gets his fair share of bombs coming his way.

[run pMc]

The Packers often have carried a WR who simply is a deep threat. I can think of at least 5 players that I can't remember.

edit Corey Bradford was one long ball guy.
Janis

They make plays, worth a roster spot especially if they can do something on special teams

If you go back to the Holmgren days:
Jeff Query
Not sure Bill Schroeder fits
Don Beebe
Corey Bradford
Janis
Trevor Davis
MVS is not unusual for GB or any team really -- as King Friday said, a big play deep ball per game from one of these guys is often all you need to give your other guys room to operate and at least present a threat the defense has to account for.

[Joemailman]

MVS gets open deep and doesn't drop the deep ones. It's all the other ones he struggles with and the shorter the pass or more contested, the worse it gets.

As a deep threat though, he's legit. He's leading the league right now and was top 10 in his rookie and injured sophomore seasons. Playing less is good for him, but not playing him in long field situations is absolutely bad for the Packers. He can run that deep stuff and teams have to respect it. You get two solid guys in front of him and bring him in on the long field and he opens everything up underneath as well as gets his fair share of bombs ek. coming his way.I remember Alvin Harper with the Cowboys. He was a great deep threat when the Cowboys had Michael Irvin and Jay Novacek. Tampa Bay then signed him to a big free agent contract. But when he had to be The Guy, he couldn't do it. We should be hoping that MVS can be what Alvin Harper was for the Cowboys, and not expect more.

[RashanGary]

I remember Alvin Harper with the Cowboys. He was a great deep threat when the Cowboys had Michael Irvin and Jay Novacek. Tampa Bay then signed him to a big free agent contract. But when he had to be The Guy, he couldn't do it. We should be hoping that MVS can be what Alvin Harper was for the Cowboys, and not expect more.

Yep. The sooner we let go of him being an every down player, the more we can enjoy his situational presence. Now here’s hoping Adams, Lazard and Tonyan stay healthy so we don’t have to keep bitching about a specialist playing every down.

[texaspackerbacker]

You make a great case for not getting rid of Davante Adams or probably Lazard too, Joe hahahahaha.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If you go back to the Holmgren days:
Jeff Query
Not sure Bill Schroeder fits
Don Beebe
Corey Bradford
Janis
Trevor Davis
MVS is not unusual for GB or any team really -- as King Friday said, a big play deep ball per game from one of these guys is often all you need to give your other guys room to operate and at least present a threat the defense has to account for.

I also remember wee Philip Epps, although that was a while back. He was productive despite not being much of a route runner. He could run fast and catch a ball.

[run pMc]

I also remember wee Philip Epps, although that was a while back. He was productive despite not being much of a route runner. He could run fast and catch a ball.

Yeah Epps and Walter Stanley. Those guys were burners back in the 80's.
I wasn't sure about adding Mark Clayton or Mark Ingram; they were on their last legs as receivers when they came to GB.

[run pMc]

Talking about some of these old speed WRs and looking at our current WR corps reminds me of back when they had Sterling Sharpe and a bunch of nobodies. (Sanjay Beach, Perry Kemp, etc.) They basically have that again with Adams and the UDFA crew... they really do need to bring in more WR talent for the offense.

[GB-Brandon]

His own family disagrees. I have no clue to be honest, but neither do you. He has done some very high character things in his life and he has done a few low rent things. Overall, I'll take him. He ain't Antonio Brown, but he isn't Bart Starr either.

Quite frankly you don’t know what the fuck I know. You’d might be shocked though!!!

[Zool]

MVS gets open deep and doesn't drop the deep ones. It's all the other ones he struggles with and the shorter the pass or more contested, the worse it gets.

As a deep threat though, he's legit. He's leading the league right now and was top 10 in his rookie and injured sophomore seasons. Playing less is good for him, but not playing him in long field situations is absolutely bad for the Packers. He can run that deep stuff and teams have to respect it. You get two solid guys in front of him and bring him in on the long field and he opens everything up underneath as well as gets his fair share of bombs coming his way.

Like Harvey said, it’s his ball skills that will always limit him. If the ball falls into his lap, he will probably catch it. If he’s running sideways, or there’s a player within 3 yards, it’s about 50/50.

[RashanGary]

Like Harvey said, it’s his ball skills that will always limit him. If the ball falls into his lap, he will probably catch it. If he’s running sideways, or there’s a player within 3 yards, it’s about 50/50.

He catches the deep ones though. That's indisputable.

[HarveyWallbangers]

He catches the deep ones though. That's indisputable.

Not really. If he's wide open, he mostly catches it. Any type of contested catch, not so much.

[RashanGary]

Not really. If he's wide open, he mostly catches it. Any type of contested catch, not so much.

Rare! But I disagree! He drops short ones most medium ones second and deep ones rare. Contested short and medium an alarming rate but deep ones he fights for most often

[texaspackerbacker]

He drops a few - all receivers do. Maybe he drops slightly more than most, but IMO, his game-breaking play-making ability more than makes up for it, and he's only our 3rd WR. All in all, I'll take him.

[bobblehead]

Quite frankly you don’t know what the fuck I know. You’d might be shocked though!!!

True. Sorry I aggrieved you. Tell Aaron I said "whats up".

[Zool]

Rare! But I disagree! He drops short ones most medium ones second and deep ones rare. Contested short and medium an alarming rate but deep ones he fights for most often

The next contested ball he jumps and catches might be his first. No matter where it is on the field.

[RashanGary]

True. Sorry I aggrieved you. Tell Aaron I said "whats up".

Hed have to get his lips off his pecker first

[bobblehead]

The next contested ball he jumps and catches might be his first. No matter where it is on the field.

The free play early in the season he had a defender all over him and came down with it inside the 5.

[bobblehead]

Hed have to get his lips off his pecker first

He can mumble.

[Zool]

The free play early in the season he had a defender all over him and came down with it inside the 5.

Look, don’t go ruining my mockery of MVS with facts.

[bobblehead]

Look, don’t go ruining my mockery of MVS with facts.

Apologies. Mock on!! *insert head banging ala "rock on"

[Upnorth]

Mvs is a really good #3. Compared the league I think most teams would take our deep threat with big play capacity for #3. Not all but most. The problem is due to injury he is getting wr#2 attention from other teams.