Pettine makes a change

[Sparkey]

The stars upfront for the Green Bay defense asked Mike Pettine to tweak the scheme, to simplify things and just let them play. It paid off in a dominating performance against the Eagles on Sunday.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2020/12/8/22159919/packers-defense-mike-pettine-zadarius-smith-man-coverage-carson-wentz-benched

I think I read that they played more man defense than they have all year. Will be interesting to see if they continue with the Philly game plan or go back to the soft shell zone.

[Upnorth]

The data has said they are far better at man than zone which definately is against the league trend. I think they need to stay in man. That is alexanders strenght plus it givesvthe pass rush a fraction of a second more as the offense isn't able to rely on timed zone throws as much.

Earlier in the season I think we were 3 or 4 to1 snaps in zone vrs man which is the exact opposite to how our players play.

[RashanGary]

The only good thing is we won a bunch of games while practicing new concepts. If a pitcher is always throwing a fast ball, I don't care if it's 101 mph with a late move on it, the hitters gonna catch on.

We can't just go line up and play man every snap and when we run into the best man beater teams, the ones who love to bunch up and rub routes and all that, the whole fan nation gonna cry he can't win against certain team's and is useless.

IF they've become good enough at zone with all of that investment to have a legit change up and curve ball to where they can lean on the fastball now and still mix in some other pitches it will all pay off. There is more to winning at the end than just.doing one thing well.

[Joemailman]

Thought it might be instructive to go back to what Pettine was saying in his 1st PC with Packers:

https://madison.com/wsj/sports/football/professional/tom-oates-new-packers-defensive-coordinator-mike-pettine-says-all/article_58f79393-8ea7-5888-ad9e-c0681baafb1c.html


“The cornerstone for us is going to be, first of all, fundamentally sound, smart football,” Pettine said. “We coach the heck out of the little details. If you want to get into the schematic stuff, I like to appear multiple. I know people have said the system can be very complicated, but we like to appear multiple without necessarily putting that much stuff in.”

“It’s not a system that is overwhelming to learn,” he said. “The league has changed. When I first got in the league, it was easy to put in 50 or 60 defenses for a game. Now, you’re 20 to 25. Why? Because a lot of time you’re dealing with young players that haven’t been veteran guys in a system that know it and also you’re dealing with the new CBA where you have limited time to get with them, especially in the offseason, for them to learn that foundation. I think as a coach you have to adjust. But (when) you look at us you’re going to see we’re going to be multiple and we’re going to be aggressive.”

“I think you still have to be sound against the run, but you lose a heck of a lot faster when you’re giving up chunks in the passing game than you are necessarily in the run game,” Pettine said.

“It’s critical to win on early downs, but the pass part of it is huge. You have to find a way to affect the quarterback. If you’re not sacking him, you’re hitting him, you’re getting knockdowns, you’re getting hurries and you’re in his head a little bit. And you’re changing it up. Coach (McCarthy) talked about winning the pre-snap. That’s always been an important aspect of our system. If NFL quarterbacks know what you’re in pre-snap, you’re in trouble. The disguise element and mixing up coverages and making things look similar but having the ability to play something different out of it — that chess-game part of it — I think is important. That’s something we’re going to emphasize.”

Has he played chess too much? Or if he makes it too simple, is he playing checkers against offenses playing chess?

[RashanGary]

We’ll see how it plays out. From my perspective, I hear people coming up with one liner reasons why something doesn't or didn't work and don't get into any depth. It's hard to take seriously complaints that don't explain at all what is happening or should be or why even if they did what you demand it has other downfalls that are completely ignored. But still, stay stuck in the one liner complaint and sure fire solution :roll:

[RashanGary]

What happens when pure man defenses run into the Packers? They lose. Every time. That's what happens. You think we're the only team built to destroy man defense and we're just gonna waltz through the post season gauntlet without ever running into a bad match up. Fuck no.

There is a reason Pettine develops a couple pitches and doesn't just throw fast balls. The investment in zone defense will pay off even if they do lean a little more into man down the stretch. And probably should. But to never develop the other stuff would insure we will never win a championship

[RashanGary]

Ope, its 2019. We have a second year corner, a rookie free safety. Sullivan, Greene and Redmond are all relatively young. We play man defense alright but our young guys struggle with the subtleties of zone.


Solution:

Give up. Just accept that these guys will never be able to do anything other than man defense. Invest zero energy into growth. Boom. Championship


Or


As a second option, maybe push to do a few things. Let guys make a couple mistakes and keep pushing toward being able to mix a couple defenses so you can keep play callers and professional quarterbacks off balance.




RELAX!

[GB-Brandon]

Ope, its 2019. We have a second year corner, a rookie free safety. Sullivan, Greene and Redmond are all relatively young. We play man defense alright but our young guys struggle with the subtleties of zone.


Solution:

Give up. Just accept that these guys will never be able to do anything other than man defense. Invest zero energy into growth. Boom. Championship


Or


As a second option, maybe push to do a few things. Let guys make a couple mistakes and keep pushing toward being able to mix a couple defenses so you can keep play callers and professional quarterbacks off balance.




RELAX!

Or

Continue to waste draft picks drafting DB’s with premium picks and more recently spend $ to bring in free agent help at safety with little to no return!!!

FAILURE!!

[Fritz]

Thought it might be instructive to go back to what Pettine was saying in his 1st PC with Packers:

https://madison.com/wsj/sports/football/professional/tom-oates-new-packers-defensive-coordinator-mike-pettine-says-all/article_58f79393-8ea7-5888-ad9e-c0681baafb1c.html



Has he played chess too much? Or if he makes it too simple, is he playing checkers against offenses playing chess?

The way I understoid "simplify," it suggested that zone is harder/more complicated to play than man, and that zone is safer but less aggressive, which meant QB's could get rid of the ball quickly and frustrate the pass rush.

Instead of "simplify," I'd say it sounds like they wanted a more aggressive approach.

But I am no expert on man vs. zone.

[GB-Brandon]

Go get a competent defensive coordinator and a defensive line that can beat people up with some twitchy speed in the middle and come back and talk to me.

The problem is it will be too late!!!

This shit has been ran so ass backwards.

[smuggler]

Might end up being an improvement. Having veiled calls is great, unless calling 12 straight runs beats it anyway.

[GB-Brandon]

People have literally been having these discussions for ten years now when the answers are right under their noses. It never ceases to amaze me.

It’s the same song and dance over and over and over. It really is Insane. The “Big Changes” after dominating probably the worst and most decimated OL in the NFL that even the Seattle Seahawks got pressure on.

Let’s see how these BIG CHANGES play out in a few week against the Titans!!!!

[texaspackerbacker]

I doubt this change was very significant or long term. It had more to do with the opposition than anything else. Our Corners should have been and mostly were able to handle the receiver group of the Eagles in man coverage. Against a lot of teams, that hasn't been the case and won't be going forward. Zone doesn't have to be "soft shell" almost prevent type defense. We have played that some, and I don't like it either. We also have played some zone which I do like - a step or two closer to the line in all cases.

I'm still on the fire Pettine bandwagon, although I doubt it happens after a excellent record as the Packers are headed for. For better or worse, though, Pettine seems worried (overly?) about giving up big plays. And the Packers have been pretty successful doing that with him as D Coordinator.

[Fritz]

People have literally been having these discussions for ten years now when the answers are right under their noses. It never ceases to amaze me.

It’s the same song and dance over and over and over. It really is Insane. The “Big Changes” after dominating probably the worst and most decimated OL in the NFL that even the Seattle Seahawks got pressure on.

Let’s see how these BIG CHANGES play out in a few week against the Titans!!!!

I assume you are referring to your above post - get a bunch of dominating defensive linemen and some great linebackers!

As we used to say back in the 70's, no shit Sherlock.

It is obvious but it ain' easy. How many really dominating defenses are there right now in the NFL? The rules changes over the years have increasingly favored offenses. You can't just snap your fingers and get a few fantastically talented big guys on your line as well as some "twitchy" linebackers, and also keep stocking your other positions. Look at the team you'd probably point to for your example: the Niners. Great year last year. Didn't win the SB. How they doing this year?

You always seem so dismissive of the Packers. Try to enjoy them. They're 9 - 3, dude. What they hell would you do if you were a Lions fan or even a Vikings fan? Enjoy the ride, bud. They've got a shot - they are flawed, but who's not? - and so let's see where it goes.

[RashanGary]

Yeah. Just get the best players. Duh. All 32 teams should theoretically win the super bowl if theyd just listen to Brandon.

[GB-Brandon]

I doubt this change was very significant or long term. It had more to do with the opposition than anything else. Our Corners should have been and mostly were able to handle the receiver group of the Eagles in man coverage. Against a lot of teams, that hasn't been the case and won't be going forward. Zone doesn't have to be "soft shell" almost prevent type defense. We have played that some, and I don't like it either. We also have played some zone which I do like - a step or two closer to the line in all cases.

I'm still on the fire Pettine bandwagon, although I doubt it happens after a excellent record as the Packers are headed for. For better or worse, though, Pettine seems worried (overly?) about giving up big plays. And the Packers have been pretty successful doing that with him as D Coordinator.

Against every winning team his defense has gotten smoked this year. The Saints had a costly turnover that cost them the game. In the last 3 years in big games he has only really delivered two times(season opener against Bears2019 and 2nd Queens Game 2019) and one the QB was Trubisky and the other there was no Delvin Cook. It’s been a complete Fail. Mediocre on his best days mostly.

When the Packers play a top tier offense and rushing attack you can basically pencil in 30 points!!! When you consider the investment and this being his 3rd year and where they rank I don’t know how he keeps his job with the massive let downs. If he gets blow out of the playoffs again which I expect he has to go.

If he does stay then this exactly illustrates the lack of accountability and dysfunction in the Packers organization. If you can’t systematically look at your team in a vacuum and organization and make changes and improve then your not getting the job done!!! This has been my biggest pet peeve with the organization as a whole.

I really don’t understand what Mike Pettine has ever done to get so much clout. He had a couple good defenses years ago. I’m not buying a Fucken 2009 BMW for the 2020 price today!!!

[RashanGary]

Might end up being an improvement. Having veiled calls is great, unless calling 12 straight runs beats it anyway.

This is so true. He's done a great job eliminating big plays. We're one of the best teams in the league at that. He's also done a great job pushing the young guys to get better at zone defense. That will pay dividends down the road even if we do start leaning on a little more man defense.

And playing man defense a lot isn't aggressive anymore. It's stupid. That's why nobody does it. Over the past 10-15 years offensive pass interference on picks and rubs has all but disappeared from the game. Play steady man defense and you might as well just bend over and lube up for bubba because if that's your defense, you don't have a defense.

Pettine has been developing a young secondary for the last 2 years. That's what's happening. Relax.

[texaspackerbacker]

Good Post, RG.

[GB-Brandon]

I assume you are referring to your above post - get a bunch of dominating defensive linemen and some great linebackers!

As we used to say back in the 70's, no shit Sherlock.

It is obvious but it ain' easy. How many really dominating defenses are there right now in the NFL? The rules changes over the years have increasingly favored offenses. You can't just snap your fingers and get a few fantastically talented big guys on your line as well as some "twitchy" linebackers, and also keep stocking your other positions. Look at the team you'd probably point to for your example: the Niners. Great year last year. Didn't win the SB. How they doing this year?

You always seem so dismissive of the Packers. Try to enjoy them. They're 9 - 3, dude. What they hell would you do if you were a Lions fan or even a Vikings fan? Enjoy the ride, bud. They've got a shot - they are flawed, but who's not? - and so let's see where it goes.

Yeah, it’s weird season and they do have a shot. I’ve been on all these runs. It’s almost like they or Aaron has to do it all despite the front office and all their blunders. It just gets frustrating. We should be in the middle of a dynasty.

[GB-Brandon]

Yeah. Just get the best players. Duh. All 32 teams should theoretically win the super bowl if theyd just listen to Brandon.

But it’s not just me. It’s been pretty Fucken obvious to many. Maybe not to some posters on here but nationally and even within the fan base and media etc etc. all across the board pretty much. This isn’t some conspiracy theory.

[GB-Brandon]

It will never happen but if we could fire Gute and get John Dorsey in here and new D coordinator we could fix a lot of this shit quick.

I wouldn’t even mind Louis Riddick

[Joemailman]

Pettine was asked about a schematic change right off the bat in his PC today.

https://www.packers.com/video/pettine-on-2019-draft-class-it-s-nice-to-see-those-guys-step-forward

[RashanGary]

Yeah. Well, he's doing a great job.

He has A 22 year old starting safety and nickel guy and his star corner is 23 and his other one 25 and then one barely vet in the secondary. People crying because 24 year olds aren't the right distance off the line of scrimmage are ridiculous. Push them into the tougher areas of defense. Let them learn like we all had to.

This whole perfection standard we hold literal barely adult, almost high school kids to is a fucking joke.

[RashanGary]

Sometimes I just want to jump through my screen and punch Brandon in the face for bitching about barely out of high school kids not being perfect. And then to think anyone could teach them every detail and force people to be perfect. This whole thing is annoying as Fuck.

[RashanGary]

42 year old reporters bitching about 25 year olds who are under a lot of on the spot pressure and not playing the perfect distance too. It's fucking baffling how ridiculous this shit is. I want to show up to his daughters first job out of college and ream her the fuck out for being a retard and then blame her boss too. Reporters are so fucking stupid. What a joke this all is

[Bretsky]

Sometimes I just want to jump through my screen and punch Brandon in the face for bitching about barely out of high school kids not being perfect. And then to think anyone could teach them every detail and force people to be perfect. This whole thing is annoying as Fuck.


I like him as a poster overall; but I do get a kick out of how he has set him up.

Basically he can claim to be right unless GB wins the Super Bowl :)))

[RashanGary]

Pettine is teaching a bunch of really young guys (all of them physically gifted and hard work to keep themselves in that shape) how to play football. I have 4 kids in my life. All of them learn different things and different paces and some.of them don't ever catch on to certain things and others catch on so fast to things I've never been able to figure out.


This whole.thing is a fucking joke, sitting here thinking we know how to force people to figure things out. Sometimes I can't believe this is real.

[GB-Brandon]

Sometimes I just want to jump through my screen and punch Brandon in the face for bitching about barely out of high school kids not being perfect. And then to think anyone could teach them every detail and force people to be perfect. This whole thing is annoying as Fuck.

Well this is “Professional Sports” buddy where they get “Paid to Play”. That’s just it. This isn’t “High School Football” or even college. These guys are getting drafted ahead of thousands of other guys that would give their left nut to have this chance. This is the pinnacle. They get paid MiLLIONS OF DOLLARS. The NFL is all about winning. That’s what this league is. That’s what makes it great and that’s why people go so crazy over it.

If the heat is to hot in the kitchen maybe you should step it down to high school athletics. There isn’t any shame in that but for you to shame people for being critical about guys getting paid millions of dollars is bullshit.

The reality is it in some of these cases it isn’t the players faults. We should of never even drafted them. it’s the Fucken Fraudulent Jackass that drafted them in the first Fucken place!!!!

[GB-Brandon]

This organization has become way way way to soft. Probably why we keep getting beat up in the playoffs.

[GB-Brandon]

This isn’t an assembly job down at Georgia Pacific. Mike Pettine had 3 years to figure this shit out. That’s an eternity in the NFL. My gosh!!!

[GB-Brandon]

42 year old reporters bitching about 25 year olds who are under a lot of on the spot pressure and not playing the perfect distance too. It's fucking baffling how ridiculous this shit is. I want to show up to his daughters first job out of college and ream her the fuck out for being a retard and then blame her boss too. Reporters are so fucking stupid. What a joke this all is

And lastly, let’s not even go there with the whole “Perfection Thing”

We’re talking about ten years of failure on defense here. Is asking this defense to slip into the Top 10 one Fucken year when they have used just about every good draft pick and spent all the $ on it asking for perfection? Geez.

[RashanGary]

Just give.these niggas a break, bro. These are young kids, athletic, hard working, awesome kids. But they young..... Kids..... Bet on yo bets bro, I do to. But don't make it personal, man, these young dudes, we were.too. There was a.day when we couldn't even sweep brooms right. Leave the guys on yo team alone at least

[RashanGary]

This is the official, yeah, life sucks and we want to vent moment, but support your fucking own PERIOD!!!!!!! No excuses! Stop betting if you have a problem and can't support your guys. OVER. NO CONVERSATION

[GB-Brandon]

This has nothing to do with bets. This has to do with a decade of failure on defense. Mike Pettine is another giant Fraud. I wish he wasn’t but he is.

[GB-Brandon]

I’m gonna tell you for the LAST TIME!!! The Packers aren’t drafting the right type of guys to play defense overall. They have failed miserably for the most part over the last ten years. There are some things “You Can Teach” and there are other things “You Can’t Fucken Teach” when it comes to playing defense. Especially at such a high level as the NFL. There are just certain instincts and mental attributes that good to great defensive players have. You can’t Fucken teach it into a guy. It will never happen and you are just wasting your time. You might get some small levels of improvement but you will never get the full result of what you expected.

The Packers have been to caught up at grading guys a specific way and it’s cost them dearly. They think they can take a talented and smart kid and coach the hell out of him into a good defensive player. It’s been a disaster for the most part. If you don’t believe it then go rewatch the decade of failure again of the Packers defense.

They get away with doing this on the offensive side of the ball because offense is more skill and finesse. It doesn’t require the same mental DNA. Plus they have Rodgers to fill in the cracks.

Until the Packers fix this nothing is going to change. It’s going to be the same song and dance over and over like it has been.

[GB-Brandon]

This doesn’t mean I don’t root for the defense when they play but I’m not going to be delusional about it either.

[GB-Brandon]

I would LOVE nothing more then to have and ELITE DEFENSE!!!!

I’ve given up on that because we don’t have people smart enough in place to make that happen!!!

[Zool]

Well this thread has really devolved into a piece of shit.

[Upnorth]

Yeah. Just get the best players. Duh. All 32 teams should theoretically win the super bowl if theyd just listen to Brandon.

Perhaps brandon is actually dan Schneider?

[sharpe1027]

Well this thread has really devolved into a piece of shit.

Painfully. Evenen with the ignore feature.

[George Cumby]

Don't feed the Troll(s).

Amazingly, Brandon has supplanted Tank as the Troll-in-residence.

[hoosier]

Don't feed the Troll(s).

Amazingly, Brandon has supplanted Tank as the Troll-in-residence.

Tank is busy in FYI debating election postmortems and COVID. It's not recommended reading by any stretch. But while what you say about the new troll laureate seems true, I would like it to be noted that the replacement is a definite step down. Tank at least has a sense of humor and is self deprecating. The new troll takes itself way too seriously to be any fun. Boy, 2020 really DOES suck.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Tank is busy in FYI debating election postmortems and COVID. It's not recommended reading by any stretch. But while what you say about the new troll laureate seems true, I would like it to be noted that the replacement is a definite step down. Tank at least has a sense of humor and is self deprecating. The new troll takes itself way too seriously to be any fun. Boy, 2020 really DOES suck.

I would love to spend even more time in FYI, but alas, aphrodisiac vids often dwindle my brain potency. Gotta find a way to beat the addiction, for, I’m getting old.

[GB-Brandon]

If you can’t take a good hard look at past and present failures then you can’t make corrections and adjust to the future for success.

I know it’s a painful and a tough pill to swallow but its necessary if you want “Real Positive Change”.

Has nothing to do with trolling etc etc!!!!!!!

[Smidgeon]

Painfully. Evenen with the ignore feature.

You guys actually see posts after using the Ignore feature?

[SudsMcBucky]

If you can’t take a good hard look at past and present failures then you can’t make corrections and adjust to the future for success.

I know it’s a painful and a tough pill to swallow but its necessary if you want “Real Positive Change”.

Has nothing to do with trolling etc etc!!!!!!!

It's all good to take a hard look at failures, but 99.9999999% of your posts are pretty much saying the same thing. It's also ok to have just a little bit of enjoyment when your team is 9-3 and looking at a playoff push.

[Zool]

It's all good to take a hard look at failures, but 99.9999999% of your posts are pretty much saying the same thing. It's also ok to have just a little bit of enjoyment when your team is 9-3 and looking at a playoff push.

Also, literally no way to to make any changes to what the org does.

[run pMc]

Also, literally no way to to make any changes to what the org does.

But it's fun to yell and shake your fist at the sun when the weather is beautiful. Especially if there's a 30% chance of rain the following week.

[run pMc]

As for Pettine making changes, he needs to be adaptable. I hate coaches that are stubborn; you need to adapt your scheme to your players and what they do well.
The GB defense hasn't been awful lately, and except for TEN the Packers will be playing sub .500 teams from here. This is a good time for them to sharpen up.

[sharpe1027]

You guys actually see posts after using the Ignore feature?

I see 50 posts responding.

[Joemailman]

I wonder at what age Brandon insisted his parents replace Santa Claus because he wasn't getting everything he wanted for Christmas.

[GB-Brandon]

Brandon is on his way to Las Vegas to stay at his getaway place in Red Rock and handle and manage some of my future plays. If your NICE and RESPECTFUL to Brandon then i might give some of my picks this weekend. If this continues then I will give you NOTHING!!!!!!!

Your Choice.

[Joemailman]

Thanks for nothing.

[Zool]

But it's fun to yell and shake your fist at the sun when the weather is beautiful. Especially if there's a 30% chance of rain the following week.

https://i.imgur.com/91sn32Q.jpg

[hoosier]

Brandon is on his way to Las Vegas to stay at his getaway place in Red Rock and handle and manage some of my future plays. If your NICE and RESPECTFUL to Brandon then i might give some of my picks this weekend. If this continues then I will give you NOTHING!!!!!!!

Your Choice.

Are you seriously telling us that you are a playwright?

[George Cumby]

Are you seriously telling us that you are a playwright?

He's a regular Bard, all right.

[hoosier]

Interesting factoid: bard comes from Gaelic and originally was used to refer to what we would call slackers, wandering musicians who couldn't get a regular gig. Later one of the Scottish novelists turned the bard into a romantic hero a la Shakespeare. So who's the bard of PR? It certainly ain't old Gee Bee Brandon. I believe it would have to be our wandering clown, APB.

[Upnorth]

He's a regular Bard, all right.

Based on his take on reality and how firm he is in stating his beliefs he definitely has the alcoholic part of writing nailed!

[George Cumby]

^ LOL

[smuggler]

Interesting factoid: bard comes from Gaelic and originally was used to refer to what we would call slackers, wandering musicians who couldn't get a regular gig. Later one of the Scottish novelists turned the bard into a romantic hero a la Shakespeare. So who's the bard of PR? It certainly ain't old Gee Bee Brandon. I believe it would have to be our wandering clown, APB.

This would be incredibly ironic if the theory of Shakespeare being just a simple theatre owner employing some anonymous playwright was actually correct, given his styling as "the immortal bard."

[George Cumby]

This would be incredibly ironic if the theory of Shakespeare being just a simple theatre owner employing some anonymous playwright was actually correct, given his styling as "the immortal bard."

My late older brother, with whom I had, well, no relationship, was a professor of Elizabethan literature, i.e.: Shakespeare. He'd be doing 5,000 rpm in the grave if this were actually the case.

[Guiness]

Well this thread has really devolved into a piece of shit.

Hey guys, Captain Arsehole and Wonderboy are coming.

[Guiness]

It's all good to take a hard look at failures, but 99.9999999% of your posts are pretty much saying the same thing. It's also ok to have just a little bit of enjoyment when your team is 9-3 and looking at a playoff push.

10-3 beeyatch!:clap:

[Guiness]

Interesting factoid: bard comes from Gaelic and originally was used to refer to what we would call slackers, wandering musicians who couldn't get a regular gig. Later one of the Scottish novelists turned the bard into a romantic hero a la Shakespeare. So who's the bard of PR? It certainly ain't old Gee Bee Brandon. I believe it would have to be our wandering clown, APB.

I dunno, Skinbasket? Things haven't been the same since TyroneBigguns left:sad:

Actually, on further review, I'd say Woodbuck. A lot of his posts required the same amount of review and dissecting that I remember my english teacher having me do to comprehend a Shakespeare text!:cnf:

[hoosier]

I dunno, Skinbasket? Things haven't been the same since TyroneBigguns left:sad:

Actually, on further review, I'd say Woodbuck. A lot of his posts required the same amount of review and dissecting that I remember my english teacher having me do to comprehend a Shakespeare text!:cnf:

Yeah. I was thinking mostly of the can't-hold-down-a-regular-job bit, whereas you're looking at ability to coin a phrase and walk that oh so thin line between brilliance and lunacy. On that count, I cannot argue with your Woodbuck vote, even if he rarely managed to actually walk in a straight line. And, no, things have not been the same since Ty left. I wonder what happened to him. Maybe he found illumination and peace of mind in the desert.