Packers defense, post season edition

[RashanGary]

The unit is peaking at the right time. They went from playing well early in games to fucking the pooch at the end with leads. Josh Jackson and Kadar Hollman didn't help much, but additional evidence suggests the Packers were ironing out the details of their zone defenses as they played so much, so poorly, at the end of games when they had leads.

Zone defense has gone from the ugly stepchild of Pettines playbook, only exposed at the end of games when they couldn't possibly f it up to a viable coverage early in the game, littered with zone blitzes and the whole zone package.

Pettine can now mix and match zone blitzes with match blitzes with zone match with basic zone with basic man. The playbook is wide open. They're starting and finishing games strong.

It's slightly annoying how much they bend but nice that they don't break.


A fresh front coming off the bye swings a freshly sharpened secondary axe blade to hack down post season obsticals. Championship!

[RashanGary]

Not really post season topic, but Gary is one good offseason away from borderline probowl too. If that pick really pans out, maybe 12 finishes with 2 more Owls!

[Joemailman]

P and Z are the oldest starters on the Packers defense at 28. They should be good for a while.

The play of the safeties, and the emergence of Barnes as the every down linebacker has made all the difference. Packers tacking has also been much better. Giving up as many completions as they did to the Bears yesterday would have been a major problem earlier in the year. Some of those short completions would have turned into big plays. Not yesterday.

[QBME]

P and Z are the oldest starters on the Packers defense at 28. They should be good for a while.

The play of the safeties, and the emergence of Barnes as the every down linebacker has made all the difference. Packers tacking has also been much better. Giving up as many completions as they did to the Bears yesterday would have been a major problem earlier in the year. Some of those short completions would have turned into big plays. Not yesterday.

I get it and agree to a point.

The thing that chafes me is when a safety/cornerback comes up and tries to "tackle" without using his arms. Just takes a shot with his shoulder to knock the ball carrier off balance and to the ground.

Also, still see too much defensive standing around the tackle assuming its going to happen. Need to start swarming to the ball.

Mike Pettine, if you are online with the Rats (and I think you are) just PM me and we can get this cleaned up toot sweet.

You're welcome.

[RashanGary]

195 pound guys do what they have to do to get a guy down. Form tackles wouldn’t work anyway

[RashanGary]

Offensive coaches get paid too. They like to get corners one on one with running backs because it’s a mismatch in size. Perfection isn’t a thing in the NFL and corners who tackle like linebackers don’t exist.

[run pMc]

195 pound guys do what they have to do to get a guy down. Form tackles wouldn’t work anyway

Why not?

A 195 pound CB should be able to take down a 205 pound WR or at least hinder a 210 pound RB enough for the troops to rally and arrive. I can't tell you how many times I've seen the secondary play off, have a QB throw short/under that coverage, and then they fail to square up and tackle correctly. Raven Greene, Kevin King, Redmond... they'd fly up and the opposing player would just sidestep them and keep going. Bad angles, bad fundamentals. There are instances where players are throwing a shoulder and not using arms to wrap up -- basically going for a hit but not a tackle. That mostly works on a direct hit, but a direct hit on a moving player is low percentage. Using your arms to wrap up exposes you to shoulder/arm/hand injuries, but it also brings the player down more often and more successfully.

Apparently tackling is a business decision.

I've seen King make some very good open field tackles, and come up and be physical in run support, so I know he can do it. Not to pick specifically on him; there are others who do it as well. I think that's just a discipline thing -- bringing the guy down vs. wanted to blow someone up.

[RashanGary]

God, fans bitch about literally everything. Expect perfection. Other guys are paid too :roll:

[texaspackerbacker]

Whether to put your body on the line and go for a tackle against a bigger RB with a head of steam may be a business decision, but throwing a shoulder instead of wrapping up like every kid football player is taught is just plain bad form/poor fundamentals.

What impressed me was Jaire Alexander - with no game on the line, just pride, preventing a TD on the last play by leveraging a TE to the ground ....... but then again, it was Jimmy Graham hahahaha.

[Bossman641]

Agreed Tex... Shows the type of competitor Jaire is.

[RashanGary]

Every year 1 or 2 rookies make the pro bowl. 3 or 4 second year guys, 5 or 6 third year guys and a bunch of 4th-10th year guys. Outside of those rare stars, coaches (including pettine) are charged with getting the none pro bowlers to play at a high enough level to win a championship. Not assuming they're attempting to improve players weaknesses seems far greater a stretch than attempting. I don't know how this is a conversation and the bumbling monkey theme so popular?

[RashanGary]

Montravious Adams flashed
Injured
Billy Winn flashed
Injured

And we’re still better off on the DL in week 18 than we were in week 1. Thanks Brian “respect the fatties” Gutekunst.

[Jaire]

Don't underestimate the addition of Snacks. The DL was thin and a bit light. Snacks is gold and the missing piece. I'm as stoked as the coaches by that pick up. And a vet too!! This D is so young -- 25 year old Clarke was our vet on the DL!!!

This very much reminds me of both the 2014 and 2010 teams, which also peaked at the end of their seasons. The difference is we don't have HaHa to just watch the game tying extra point fly past his nose. Of the 16 ridiculous plays of that worst 2 minute melt down in sports, that bugs me second most (after the fake field goal TD, which actually wasn't part of the melt down, just the ominous prelude).

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Don't underestimate the addition of Snacks. The DL was thin and a bit light. Snacks is gold and the missing piece. I'm as stoked as the coaches by that pick up. And a vet too!! This D is so young -- 25 year old Clarke was our vet on the DL!!!



Lowry Army is 26, which, if my math ain’t erroneous, makes Lowry older than Cletidus. As my cracka, Tony O’Day, likes to say, Cletidus is an overpaid underachiever.

Btw: I ain’t know what’s it’s like in ole England, but here in humble America, we ain’t spell shit like “Clarke.” It’s Clark, yo!

[Jaire]

Lowry Army is 26, which, if my math ain’t erroneous, makes Lowry older than Cletidus. As my cracka, Tony O’Day, likes to say, Cletidus is an overpaid underachiever.

Btw: I ain’t know what’s it’s like in ole England, but here in humble America, we ain’t spell shit like “Clarke.” It’s Clark, yo!


But Clark did start more games. I forgot they were the same class. Lancaster BTW is 26 also. The Northwestern duo have had to make up for lack of veterans with sheer brain power. To compare, Jenkins is only 2 months younger than Clark, and the youngest starter on the OL.

Anyways, the real point is they need an upgrade on that line, which Snacks gives them. 20 or 30 snaps from Snacks and no team besides Baltimore will be running on GB.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

But Clark did start more games. I forgot they were the same class. Lancaster BTW is 26 also. The Northwestern duo have had to make up for lack of veterans with sheer brain power. To compare, Jenkins is only 2 months younger than Clark, and the youngest starter on the OL.

Anyways, the real point is they need an upgrade on that line, which Snacks gives them. 20 or 30 snaps from Snacks and no team besides Baltimore will be running on GB.

I hope you’re right about the Snack. I do not wish to witness another college futbol debacle where the opponent pound the rock up and down the Pack’s rear ends.

Defense has gotta get off the fucking field and quit milking the clock!

[Jaire]

I hope you’re right about the Snack. I do not wish to witness another college futbol debacle where the opponent pound the rock up and down the Pack’s rear ends.....

1) No team is like 2019 San Fran. They were a terrible mismatch for us on top of that.

2) This team is better than last year every way (except LT now).

3) The D stopped Henry and stopped Chicago last week. They could do it without Snacks. I am very confident in this D. It reminds me of the 2014 squad with the same concerns. But then they could and did stop teams when they wanted, especially down the stretch. You don't have to stop the run. You MUST be ABLE to stop it. I don't think we could say that til the Titans game. Before they could slow it down. Now they can stop it, not shut it down, and that is good enough. Stopping the pass is much more important. Keep in mind that the Bears were able to play their game the first three quarters. The turnovers were even. It was their best game plan and the Pack even let them do it: Bears had 75 plays, one TD; Packers had 46 plays, 5 TDs. The whole game went according to the Bears game plan, and GB beat the piss out of them. Desperation (and converted) 4th downs from drive one even. Completely crushed, every bit as much as the Final Score suggested.

The only team that can even compete with GB in Lambeau is Tampa. I don't think they will be caught with their pants down this time.

[Smidgeon]

1) No team is like 2019 San Fran. They were a terrible mismatch for us on top of that.

2) This team is better than last year every way (except LT now).

3) The D stopped Henry and stopped Chicago last week. They could do it without Snacks. I am very confident in this D. It reminds me of the 2014 squad with the same concerns. But then they could and did stop teams when they wanted, especially down the stretch. You don't have to stop the run. You MUST be ABLE to stop it. I don't think we could say that til the Titans game. Before they could slow it down. Now they can stop it, not shut it down, and that is good enough. Stopping the pass is much more important. Keep in mind that the Bears were able to play their game the first three quarters. The turnovers were even. It was their best game plan and the Pack even let them do it: Bears had 75 plays, one TD; Packers had 46 plays, 5 TDs. The whole game went according to the Bears game plan, and GB beat the piss out of them. Desperation (and converted) 4th downs from drive one even. Completely crushed, every bit as much as the Final Score suggested.

The only team that can even compete with GB in Lambeau is Tampa. I don't think they will be caught with their pants down this time.

I submit that the Titans are, but the Packer's D improved versus last year.

[texaspackerbacker]

I hope Snacks Harrison is a significant upgrade, but that's far from sure. I had a similar hope for Rush, and that doesn't seem to have panned out.

Regarding that Niner game that went so badly, I don't know if they were actually that much better a team than the Packers or if we just had a really bad day against a very good team. As was said, the Titans were a comparable team of running game, maybe better. However, the Niner D prior to the injuries was probably a lot better. Just the same, good offense often beats good D. Unfortunately, we had a pretty rotten game that day. Also, I would argue that as good as Henry is, it's easier to load up and stop a power back like him than it is to stop one or more smaller faster backs like the Niners had. Personnel-wise, we are pretty much the same in the D-Line. Clark is still damn good, but the undynamic duo from Northwestern is still there, and most games, they still suck.

[gbgary]

hopefully MLF's comments, on the soft coverage in short yardage situations, become the rule. the D should continue on it's upward trend. barnes and kirksey trading positions has worked out very well, savage and amos finally in permanent spots, plus clark and harrison up front, should really solidify the middle of the D. all this since the talk. Z!

[RashanGary]

I don't think “the talk” necessarily made the change. There has been a whole new “talk” on less off coverage. It's been more growth of players imo and some going back to last year's identity in situations. I really don't think “the talk” was as big as it's made out.

[RashanGary]

Last years identity of press man coverage matched with a reckless pass rush is really nice in some situations. Even after “the talk” we haven't seen all out games of that. I do expect some games to have more of that. It's an option go go back to that at any time. But we're also playing more solid off coverage and zone coverages. So I expect we’ll see a mix. King should be playing more press man coverage. I expect to see more of that for sure.

Pure press man gets killed by good QB's, experienced perimeter guys and playcallers who know to run bunch rubs and pick plays vs press man. So I fully expect them to not go back to being killed that way by being predictable.

[texaspackerbacker]

True unless you have good Safeties over the top, which we do. But most of the time, those Safeties need to help out elsewhere with our fairly mediocre D Line and ILBs.