Official 2021 NFL Draft Thread

[GB-Brandon]

Looks like the Bears are working on one.

https://www.facebook.com/427153017307591/posts/4023440151012175/?d=n

[Upnorth]

I think a QB is about 20-25%, you need a competent defense and ST with a couple of playmakers to make the playoffs. It being a passing league, the joke is a QB at least as good as in-his-prime Andy Dalton is the bare minimum to sniff the playoffs. A Sam Bradford/Mark Sanchez type isn't gonna cut it. Once you find a QB who qualifies you want to keep them and build around them, unless you're convinced they are maxed out and not good enough (see: Wentz, Carson) and you want to keep looking. It all starts with a QB though: 20% for one of 22 spots is a big deal.

Stafford is an interesting case. He had Calvin Johnson for 7 seasons and they only managed 2 winning seasons, both ending in WC losses. A good QB can get you a chance, but you need other players to step up.

I think Stafford is better than a lot of people think. As to megatron, hell of a player but wr isn't a huge impact position without help from the running game and other wr. One guy can only do so much. Kind of a theme in the threads right now.
I think qbs are close to 25 or 30% of the solution. If they have a great line and good game plan they might get to 35 or 40%. I mean we have arguably the goat right now and when he had a bad game plan we actually debated what was wrong and is he washed up? 2018 and we went 6-9-1 and that is with a probable goat! It is a team sport.

[GB-Brandon]

I think Stafford is better than a lot of people think. As to megatron, hell of a player but wr isn't a huge impact position without help from the running game and other wr. One guy can only do so much. Kind of a theme in the threads right now.
I think qbs are close to 25 or 30% of the solution. If they have a great line and good game plan they might get to 35 or 40%. I mean we have arguably the goat right now and when he had a bad game plan we actually debated what was wrong and is he washed up? 2018 and we went 6-9-1 and that is with a probable goat! It is a team sport.


But But But But But Rodgers has won and made runs with less then perfect WR’s and not much of a running game and bad defenses for years? Sure these last couple years we had a good running game and maybe a little here and there with Lacy but nothing amazing over the long haul!! We certainly haven’t been the BENCHMARK OF SUCCESS ON DEFENSE! We’ve had some pretty good receivers on and off but other then Adams nothing ever like Megatron!!! Detroit has flooded Stafford with good receivers!!! Stafford isn’t even in the same league as Rodgers as far as advanced metrics rating or playoff wins or. ANYTHING!!!

Stafford throws way more picks then Rodgers and this once again is just STUPID!!!!! DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB!!!

[GB-Brandon]

You can’t say what percentage a QB attributes to a team and apply that on a “Macro Level.” It’s so DUMB. Every QB is different and some more talented then others therefore QB’s like Rodgers or Mahommes are much higher then 15%-25% where others like Stafford might hit that percentage! To just say all QB’s are a certain percentage is some real STUPID SHIT because they are all not EQUAL of what they contribute to their respective teams!!!!

[GB-Brandon]

Many pundits believe and me as well that you could put Rodgers on just about any team in the league and they IMMEDIATELY become a playoff team so Stick That in your little calculations. Your dealing with a HOF QB here that many believe is the GREATEST OF ALL TIME!!

Yeah, That’s how bad the front office has fucked this all up!

[RashanGary]

But But But But But Rodgers has won and made runs with less then perfect WR’s and not much of a running game and bad defenses for years? Sure these last couple years we had a good running game and maybe a little here and there with Lacy but nothing amazing over the long haul!! We certainly haven’t been the BENCHMARK OF SUCCESS ON DEFENSE! We’ve had some pretty good receivers on and off but other then Adams nothing ever like Megatron!!! Detroit has flooded Stafford with good receivers!!! Stafford isn’t even in the same league as Rodgers as far as advanced metrics rating or playoff wins or. ANYTHING!!!

Stafford throws way more picks then Rodgers and this once again is just STUPID!!!!! DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB!!!

Ryan Grant, Driver, Jennings and Jones 2008-2010
Driver Jennings Jones Finley Nelson 2010
Jennings Jones Nelson Cobb Finley 2011
Nelson Cobb Jones Finley 2012
Nelson Cobb Jones Lacy 2013
Nelson Cobb Adams Jones Lacy 2014
Lacy Cobb Adams 2015 (Bakh Sitton Lindsley Lang Bulaga)
Nelson Cobb Adams 2016 (same ol)


2017 and 2018 were down years for talent and down years for Rodgers. Shocker.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers has had consistently, one of the best OL and overall offenses in football. GM > QB on any team.


When you consistently have 4 or 5 really good skill players and 4 or 5 really good OL, of course success is more likely. When he didn’t have that, he played kinda like crap.

[GB-Brandon]

Ryan Grant, Driver, Jennings and Jones 2008-2010
Driver Jennings Jones Finley Nelson 2010
Jennings Jones Nelson Cobb Finley 2011
Nelson Cobb Jones Finley 2012
Nelson Cobb Jones Lacy 2013
Nelson Cobb Adams Jones Lacy 2014
Lacy Cobb Adams 2015 (Bakh Sitton Lindsley Lang Bulaga)
Nelson Cobb Adams 2016 (same ol)


2017 and 2018 were down years for talent and down years for Rodgers. Shocker.

Yeah and he lit it up with basically zero run game other then Lacy sprinkled in. Other then 2014 which was an “Average Defense” and 2010 where they won it those defenses were at the bottom or very close to it!!

It’s just ridiculous to have these discussions like Rodgers didn’t do enough or only accounted for “15 percent of the contribution.” The minute he got hurt when he did the team immediately looked like the Cleveland Clowns and could barely win a game here and there!!! They were nowhere near close to the same team or a serious playoff contender. As usual your REACHING FOR THE STARS!!!

[RashanGary]

Left tackle

Clifton
Newhouse for a year
Bakhtiari

Right tackle
Taush
Bulaga
Turner for a year

Left guard
Colledge
Sitton
One down year
Jenkins

Center
Wells
Tretter
Lindsley

RG
Spitz
Lang
Turner


He’s had consistently good OLs, consistently good receiving weapons and Grant, Lacy and Jones at running back.




Rodgers, outside of 2017/2018 has had elite supporting casts on offense.

[RashanGary]

Matthew Stafford, now there is a great player with consistently bad talent around him. That guy has an underrated case for sure.

[Bretsky]

A great GM will find a great QB. No worries


Well then you'd have to call Ron Wolf and Ted Thompson great GM's

[GB-Brandon]

Rodgers has done ICONIC SHIT to get MEDIOCRE ROSTERS in the playoffs OVER & OVER AGAIN. Coming back from injury to beat a really good Bears team. Completing a Hail Mary that really actually changed how we got into the playoffs. Playing injured on one leg “Calling A Run” and going out there and playing like Super Man and completing it!! He did this MULTIPLE TIMES!!!

To say this is “15 Percent Stuff” is just Absurd!! In fact it’s EMBARRASSING!!!!

[GB-Brandon]

Left tackle

Clifton
Newhouse for a year
Bakhtiari

Right tackle
Taush
Bulaga
Turner for a year

Left guard
Colledge
Sitton
One down year
Jenkins

Center
Wells
Tretter
Lindsley

RG
Spitz
Lang
Turner


He’s had consistently good OLs, consistently good receiving weapons and Grant, Lacy and Jones at running back.




Rodgers, outside of 2017/2018 has had elite supporting casts on offense.

Do I need to post some highlights of Rodgers scrambling and extending plays and throwing lasers all over the field? ELITE? LOL!!!!

They were good but not everyone you posted was ELITE man!! Are SNORTING or hitting the GLASS TONIGHT? Someone take the PIPE AWAY PLEASE!!!

[GB-Brandon]

Well since you Derailed the Thread RG. Here ya Go!!


https://youtu.be/EeAQJo5teU0

We Wasted His Career!!!!! Stafford Is a Loser!!

[RashanGary]

He doesn’t do it alone, Brandon.

[Joemailman]

What's happened to this and other threads is why people like me and some others hardly post here anymore. This place sucks.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

What's happened to this and other threads is why people like me and some others hardly post here anymore. This place sucks.

I dunno about you, but Zool’s intolerance is why our founding father, Harlan, ain’t posting much nowadays. Harlan’s my pal.

If ole Brandon’s posts are pissing Zool off, then Tex and I say, keep on posting, ole man.

[sharpe1027]

What's happened to this and other threads is why people like me and some others hardly post here anymore. This place sucks.

Welcome to the Internet.

[texaspackerbacker]

I dunno about you, but Zool’s intolerance is why our founding father, Harlan, ain’t posting much nowadays. Harlan’s my pal.

If ole Brandon’s posts are pissing Zool off, then Tex and I say, keep on posting, ole man.

True, probably, but leave me out of this. I've got nothing against Brandon or for him either for that matter.

This is just one of those times when there ain't much happening. In a few days, we come up to the free agent deadline, and either there will be a lot of news to comment on or there will be plenty of reason to complain that nothing got done.

[run pMc]

THE DELUSION IS UNREAL!! This is a fanbase that has been spoiled rotten with HOF QB play for 30 years so they don’t appreciate it!! By reading these posts and the attitude it’s almost treated as a “Given”. They are about to find out real soon though and it’s gonna be a lot of well deserved MISERY. You’d think they’d get it with seeing Hundley out there in “17” or Tolzein in “13”. I guess that wasn’t enough!!

It’s gonna be worse this time cause Rodgers ISN’T COMING BACK!!!!

You seriously need to grow some consisency in your position. You can't complain about Hundley and Tolzien when (a) those were TT moves, and (b) THEY JUST DRAFTED JORDAN LOVE. You can't complain about Gute doing this out of one side of your mouth and then talk about how GB will suck indefinitely after Rodgers, when you have no proof this will happen unless you are a psychic. Also, last I heard Rodgers IS coming back to play for GB next season.

Honestly, you carpet bomb this forum with so much random & often ignorant puke that it's hard to have a conversation with other posters, which could be done at other forums.
I also wonder why, if everything the team does is so terrible, you actually cheer for them. If you're a fan of Rodgers, then just be a Rodgers fan and not a Packers complainer. Root for the team or don't.

[run pMc]

What's happened to this and other threads is why people like me and some others hardly post here anymore. This place sucks.

Beginning to agree with you. There are a growing number of days where I visit to read posts and it's like reading the ravings of lunatics.

[GB-Brandon]

You seriously need to grow some consisency in your position. You can't complain about Hundley and Tolzien when (a) those were TT moves, and (b) THEY JUST DRAFTED JORDAN LOVE. You can't complain about Gute doing this out of one side of your mouth and then talk about how GB will suck indefinitely after Rodgers, when you have no proof this will happen unless you are a psychic. Also, last I heard Rodgers IS coming back to play for GB next season.

Honestly, you carpet bomb this forum with so much random & often ignorant puke that it's hard to have a conversation with other posters, which could be done at other forums.
I also wonder why, if everything the team does is so terrible, you actually cheer for them. If you're a fan of Rodgers, then just be a Rodgers fan and not a Packers complainer. Root for the team or don't.

Well if you can’t win the Super Bowl with Greatest QB Of ALL Time then How Are You Going To Win It Without Him?

Saying “he represents 15 or even 25 percent of the success” over the last 10 years or so is just embarrassing and shows ZERO APPRECIATION for what he has done for this franchise & organization. I am no longer going to respond to such stupid shit that is just designed to get a rise out of me. It’a so far out there it’s not even something worthy of being debated.

Jorda Love!!! LOL!!!!!! Have fun with that!!

[bobblehead]

Left tackle

Clifton
Newhouse for a year
Bakhtiari

Right tackle
Taush
Bulaga
Turner for a year

Left guard
Colledge
Sitton
One down year
Jenkins

Center
Wells
Tretter
Lindsley

RG
Spitz
Lang
Turner


He’s had consistently good OLs, consistently good receiving weapons and Grant, Lacy and Jones at running back.




Rodgers, outside of 2017/2018 has had elite supporting casts on offense.

You must have blocked Brandon also or you would know that all those players sucked and Rodgers elevated them. The only reason we didn't go 4-12 every year with such trash is Rodgers!!!

[MadtownPacker]

Beginning to agree with you. There are a growing number of days where I visit to read posts and it's like reading the ravings of lunatics.i want everyone to know I am banning Brandon for 2 weeks. He is been told so now you guys can see of things are better without him.

[GB-Brandon]

True, probably, but leave me out of this. I've got nothing against Brandon or for him either for that matter.

This is just one of those times when there ain't much happening. In a few days, we come up to the free agent deadline, and either there will be a lot of news to comment on or there will be plenty of reason to complain that nothing got done.

And with no Rodgers restructure looking like it will be done it will mostly be “Complaining Of Nothing” and that will be that and the end of it.

[bobblehead]

Recent tone here should bring back the question.

Is paying a QB really worth it if its not one of the top 5 in the league? This offseason is like none I ever have seen. Wentz, Wilson, Watson, Stafford/Goff, Jimmy G. So many QBs who have been paid seeing serious drama this offseason. Continuity in a system is important, but so is having a team around a guy. We are unique in having what I consider the current #2 QB in football, so having his contract to work around is worth it. But if we had nearly anyone else in the league I would not be happy. Wilson is good, but he shouldn't be paid like Rodgers. Wentz and Goff...Ha! Watson is young and incredible, but his stats are accumulated in garbage time. He has shown no ability to elevate a team (he has been held back by O'Brien). Jimmy G...again HA! Matt Ryan. Choker. I can do this all day. Give me Bortles or Cam at $5 million. Give me Boyle at league minimum. I can build a winner around them.

[RashanGary]

Recent tone here should bring back the question.

Is paying a QB really worth it if its not one of the top 5 in the league? This offseason is like none I ever have seen. Wentz, Wilson, Watson, Stafford/Goff, Jimmy G. So many QBs who have been paid seeing serious drama this offseason. Continuity in a system is important, but so is having a team around a guy. We are unique in having what I consider the current #2 QB in football, so having his contract to work around is worth it. But if we had nearly anyone else in the league I would not be happy. Wilson is good, but he shouldn't be paid like Rodgers. Wentz and Goff...Ha! Watson is young and incredible, but his stats are accumulated in garbage time. He has shown no ability to elevate a team (he has been held back by O'Brien). Jimmy G...again HA! Matt Ryan. Choker. I can do this all day. Give me Bortles or Cam at $5 million. Give me Boyle at league minimum. I can build a winner around them.

There are a lot of solid quarterbacks right now. While you’re usually, and in this case, a little on the far on the linear or black and white scale, I do mostly agree with this. Get a good cheap QB and stack pieces around him. Problem is, when he succeeds he’s not cheap anymore.

Rodgers bringing the mobile QB play to new levels, a lot of guys have come in and sort of mimicked his game (Wilson, Mahommes, Watson, etc) With the new skillset being as successful as the old anticipation pocket passer, now there are more solid quarterbacks than ever because a few styles can all succeed.

I’m less obsessed with the QB position than 15 years ago with the huge pool of solid ones. But like you said, you have to get one of the cheap ones if he’s not a great one, then you can stack around him.

[texaspackerbacker]

Now is not the time to whine about "no Rodgers restructure", as it almost certainly will get done. If it doesn't, then hell yeah, there is a lot of reason to complain.

The reason teams pay non-top five QBs big money is the same reason people speculate on stock or bet on games - they think they have a reasonable expectation the guy will become top five or whatever quality. It may turn out to be a dumb move, but at the time it is done, it makes sense. Again, we're talking about the LUCK factor. Who could have predicted Wentz would flop or Goff would not progress more, etc. or that others like Russell Wilson or Dak Prescott would do way better than expectation based on where they were drafted?

There have always been mobile QBs, but precious few of them could throw like Rodgers or even close. And that few goes to none when you factor in the good sense and discipline to not throw picks.

[red]

Recent tone here should bring back the question.

Is paying a QB really worth it if its not one of the top 5 in the league? This offseason is like none I ever have seen. Wentz, Wilson, Watson, Stafford/Goff, Jimmy G. So many QBs who have been paid seeing serious drama this offseason. Continuity in a system is important, but so is having a team around a guy. We are unique in having what I consider the current #2 QB in football, so having his contract to work around is worth it. But if we had nearly anyone else in the league I would not be happy. Wilson is good, but he shouldn't be paid like Rodgers. Wentz and Goff...Ha! Watson is young and incredible, but his stats are accumulated in garbage time. He has shown no ability to elevate a team (he has been held back by O'Brien). Jimmy G...again HA! Matt Ryan. Choker. I can do this all day. Give me Bortles or Cam at $5 million. Give me Boyle at league minimum. I can build a winner around them.

I have always found it insane that just because an elite player gets huge money, people then say that that new number is now the starting number for all starters at that position.

That's just nuts imo

It's really destroying the nfl. You can no longer afford to have a "decent" vet started at QB. Either you have an elite QB, or a decent QB on his rookie deal. It just doesn't pay to have anyone else at QB

As for tex and the idea of restructuring rodgers. That all depends on what the team wants to do with him. I still think the idea was to have 2021 be his last year in green bay. If you restructure him, that all but makes moving on from him impossible for the next few years.

I think rodgers playing so well this year might have really screwed up the teams plans for after this year or next

We'll see who our near future QB will be depending on if they restructure him or not in the coming weeks

[sharpe1027]

As Red suggested, restructuring Rodgers locks you in longer. I hardly ever subscribe to the win now mantra. This might be the exception. Frankly, the team is probably screwed after he either falls off in production or goes elsewhere. Sure, we could get lucky and find another HoF QB. We'll have plenty of time to build around him if we do.

[KYPack]

i want everyone to know I am banning Brandon for 2 weeks. He is been told so now you guys can see of things are better without him.

Many thanks Mad.

The guy is totally bazoots.

Run's comments go double for me.

The guy is worse than old RBALOHA was.

[texaspackerbacker]

Yeah, restructuring Rodgers makes it near impossible to "move on" from Rodgers - it's incomprehensible that anybody who loves the Packers would actually have a problem with that.

[HarveyWallbangers]

As for tex and the idea of restructuring rodgers. That all depends on what the team wants to do with him. I still think the idea was to have 2021 be his last year in green bay. If you restructure him, that all but makes moving on from him impossible for the next few years.

Not necessarily. Depends on how much they restructure. The don't have to turn all of his bonuses into a signing bonus -- just enough to get done what they want done. I could see a couple more cuts and a few more restructures -- just enough to sign a couple of players (whether that's Jones and Watt, a guy or two from another team, or a combination).

[HarveyWallbangers]

Rashod Bateman reportedly ran 4.37-4.39ish at his virtual Pro Day--much like Justin Jefferson surprised last year. If that's anywhere close to being trustworthy, the guy is not going to be available at our pick.

[sharpe1027]

Yeah, restructuring Rodgers makes it near impossible to "move on" from Rodgers - it's incomprehensible that anybody who loves the Packers would actually have a problem with that.

It's more about keeping some flexibility. Injuries happen and old age catches up with everyone eventually. You restructure someone you've used that option up for the rest of the contract for the most part. Do that with multiple big money players at the same time and your future flexibility takes a hit.

[run pMc]

Rashod Bateman reportedly ran 4.37-4.39ish at his virtual Pro Day--much like Justin Jefferson surprised last year. If that's anywhere close to being trustworthy, the guy is not going to be available at our pick.

Agree.
I watched a little YouTube of Bateman, for whatever that's worth. The vibe I got was that he was very Greg Jenningsish. I think he's gone by GB's pick though...he's probably WR4 and I think he goes in the early 20's.
I expect a number of QB's and WR's to go in R1, but I still there will be WR talent for GB to choose from.

[Joemailman]

Agree.
I watched a little YouTube of Bateman, for whatever that's worth. The vibe I got was that he was very Greg Jenningsish. I think he's gone by GB's pick though...he's probably WR4 and I think he goes in the early 20's.
I expect a number of QB's and WR's to go in R1, but I still there will be WR talent for GB to choose from.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/2021-nfl-mock-draft-harris-5.0
This mock draft has Bears taking Bateman at #20.


Packers picks:

29.Kadarius Toney WR, Florida


A two-sport athlete competing in track and football, Kadarius Toney played quarterback during his final two seasons at Blount High School (Alabama). As a junior, he threw for 3,604 yards, while rushing for another 896 yards, while scoring a combined 53 touchdowns The totals propelled him to becoming a Class 6A second-team all-state selection. During his final season, Toney worked his way to 2,894 passing yards, totaling 894 rushing yards and 47 total touchdowns. He finished his career with a 20-5 overall record and being named as the 2016 Class 6A Back of the Year, as well as being named an all-state selection for the second consecutive year. After some believed he was leaning toward signing with Alabama, Toney opted to sign with Florida. As a true freshman, he was labeled as an athlete, but the experiment there only lasted through training camp as he was moved back and forth between running back and receiver. Playing in eight games during his first season, he battled nagging shoulder and shin injuries that kept him out of three games.

Toney is an electric slot receiver who’s continued to improve every season in Gainesville. He is much more satisfying than his size indicates because he’s electric with or without the ball in his grasp. His ceiling as a route-runner is a bit limited, but he was highly effective with the package that he was asked to run. Toney’s presence is always felt whether or not he has the ball, as he makes defenses account for him even if he’s strictly a motion player.

Ideal Role: Starting wide receiver that can be used at multiple positions, but while at wideout, a bulk of his reps will come in the slot.

Scheme Fit: WR3 in a vertically attacking scheme.

62. Jackson Carman OT, Clemson


Clemson offensive lineman Jackson Carman enters the NFL after serving as Trevor Lawrence’s blindside protector for the last two-plus seasons in college—a role he filled quite well. Carman is a massive and powerful blocker that thrives in the run game and holds his own in pass protection. His power is notable, but he moves well for his size and features strong hand technique that he blends with a strong feel for his role in the scheme that makes him an effective blocker. Where Carman shows signs of struggles is when he is tasked with speed off the edge. In those moments, Carman is often beat to his landmarks and he struggles to recover. Should that be problematic at the next level, a move to guard will be required and Carman’s skill set suggests it’s a transition he could handle—and perhaps he can perform even better on the inside. Carman has the makings of a quality starter at the next level, but his team will need to figure out the right spot for him to grow and develop at.

Ideal Role: Starting offensive guard in a gap/power scheme.

Scheme Fit: Gap/Power

92. Elijah Molden CB, Washington


Elijah Molden played cornerback for the Huskies defense and aligns mostly inside. Overall, he demonstrates the athleticism to be a highly effective coverage player from the nickel slot. He’s a little undersized by ideal NFL measurables, but would suffice as an NFL slot. He is a willing tackler in the run game, so there are no reservations there. In the passing game, he excels. He plays with rare level instincts which allows him to bait quarterbacks inside and make plays. He doesn’t have elite play speed for a smaller cornerback, but his instincts help to cover his deficiencies.

Ideal Role: Starting caliber NFL nickel slot.

[Bretsky]

would welcome Bateman or Toney in round one. I would welcome trading up for Bateman as well.

[Bretsky]

would welcome Bateman or Toney in round one. I would welcome trading up for Bateman as well.


CHECK OUT TONEY vs ALABAMA and LSA

ALABAMA 8 for 153 and 1 TD
LSU 9 for 182 and 1 TD

[Bretsky]

Florida’s Kadarius Toney was one of the players who generated a buzz for himself at the 2021 Reese’s Senior Bowl practices. Toney’s explosive athleticism and ball skills proved a challenge for any DB to line up across form him, and he was one of the players who seemed to be playing at a different speed than everyone else.

Toney is a four-year senior, but only has one season as a centerpiece in Florida’s offense.

Kadarius Toney projects best as an offensive weapon in an offense which blends West Coast and spread concepts.

He has the speed and ball skills to be a legitimate threat down the field, as well as the ability to turn short gains into big plays on quick passes. Creative offensive coordinators should be able to make good use of his versatility and background as a gadget player as well. His athleticism is threatening enough that jet motion or toss plays should always be respected, which could help add misdirection to an offense. Toney can be lined up all over the offensive formation, which should help offensive coordinators come up with ways to get him the ball, as well as attack weak points in opposing defenses.

[Bretsky]

This guy is electric. He’s a home run hitter who generates excitement, and scares the bejeezus out of defenses, every time he touches the ball. He can run by helpless cornerbacks or cut suddenly away from them downfield, make tacklers miss, and for a guy who is only 6-foot, 180 pounds makes a surprising number of contested catches and breaks a surprising number of tackles.

Toney can be used pretty much any way an offensive coordinator can think of, including as a runner or receiving threat lined up in the backfield. He offers the ability to return punts and kickoffs.

I asked our Nick Falato for a quick take on Toney. He said:

“Kadarius Toney is an electrifying receiver with exceptional burst, suddenness, and separation quickness - a lightning bolt for an offense. Toney’s athletic gifts cant’s be undersold and he wins at the line of scrimmage well with his release. Toney is smooth in and out of breaks; he can sink his hips and explode hitting a second gear that’s difficult to cover, if a DB is in a disadvantageous position. He has solid hands and contested catch ability, while displaying good body control and tracking ability. When in space, he’s ridiculously hard to locate - super shifty and agile. Toney is also a willing blocker who always competes. He’s going to be a fun weapon for a creative offense.

[Joemailman]

would welcome Bateman or Toney in round one. I would welcome trading up for Bateman as well.

I'm never really in favor of drafting a WR in 1st round. I guess because the Packers have had such great success drafting them in the 2nd round. Still, if they were draft one of those guys listed above, I'd be excited about the prospects.

One guy I like is D'Wayne Eskridge from Western Michigan.


D'Wayne Eskridge is a former defensive back that transitioned back and forth between the two positions due to injuries on the roster and other players transferring from the program. He had high-end production despite not being able to settle into a position until his final season. Eskridge is a well-developed wideout that has the mentality of a defensive player. With strong hands and a seasoned route tree, he’s capable of playing on the inside or outside. Also a mainstay on special teams, he’s a prospect that will be on every special teams unit—not only as a returner, but as a hustle man on both kickoff and punt groups. A vicious and high effort run blocker, he has bone-crushing blocks on the perimeter and doesn’t take plays off if the ball isn’t in his hands.

Ideal Role: Developmental No. 3 wide receiver.

Scheme Fit: No. 3 wide receiver with the potential to turn into a consistent No. 2 or slot option. Eskridge can be a Day 1 starter as a returner on kickoffs or punts.

He was the 54th pick in the mock draft I posted about earlier. https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/2021-nfl-mock-draft-harris-5.0

[Bretsky]

I'm never really in favor of drafting a WR in 1st round. I guess because the Packers have had such great success drafting them in the 2nd round. Still, if they were draft one of those guys listed above, I'd be excited about the prospects.

One guy I like is D'Wayne Eskridge from Western Michigan.



He was the 54th pick in the mock draft I posted about earlier. https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/2021-nfl-mock-draft-harris-5.0



Year after year is seems like quality WR's are drafted in rounds one and two, but most of the time they are gone by our second round pick

[HarveyWallbangers]

Rodgers threw for 48 TDs and 5 interceptions. I’m not opposed to drafting a WR, but we have way bigger needs at OT, CB, and DT.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers threw for 48 TDs and 5 interceptions. I’m not opposed to drafting a WR, but we have way bigger needs at OT, CB, and DT.

That’s true, but back to back deep WR classes could drop a star in our lap. I’ll take a superstar WR all day and not regret it at all of one slips.

[Joemailman]

WR isn't a huge need right now. However, as things stand right now, Adams, MVS, St. Brown and Funchess will all be unrestricted free agents in 2022 and Lazard will be a restricted free agent. So they need to do some restocking at the position.

[HarveyWallbangers]

WR isn't a huge need right now. However, as things stand right now, Adams, MVS, St. Brown and Funchess will all be unrestricted free agents in 2022 and Lazard will be a restricted free agent. So they need to do some restocking at the position.

No doubt. This board just spends an inordinate amount of time obsessing over Rodgers lack of weapons. Every year we spend 90% of draft discussion talking about WRs in the draft. The Packers scored the most points in the NFL and Rodgers won MVP.

[RashanGary]

No doubt. This board just spends an inordinate amount of time obsessing over Rodgers lack of weapons. Every year we spend 90% of draft discussion talking about WRs in the draft. The Packers scored the most points in the NFL and Rodgers won MVP.

So true. And I’m rarely in this conversation. But I’m a big value guy and believe in taking the stars who slip not drafting for need. There’s a good chance a star WR slips this year with so many teams having 1, 2, 3 Sometikes 4 quality WRs on their roster. It’s setting up for getting a possible stud with a late pick in round 1

[texaspackerbacker]

For the umpteenth time, we do not need to draft a WR early. The most we would need would be somebody to beat out Malik Taylor or Tavon Austin for the 5th or 6th spot. That being said, I wouldn't complain at all if we drafted a sure-thing superstar in the first round. The key, though, is sure-thing. Of the many many many drafted in the past few years, only a couple could be called superstars. Some, probably about half of the 1st or 2nd round pick WRs could be called good, and the rest are mediocre or worse. Point being, it's far from a sure-thing, even less sure than a lot of other positions.

And as Harvey says, there are a lot of higher priorities to draft early. In order IMO, Corner, ILB, D Line, O Line, and OLB.

[Upnorth]

Jason oweh could be like gary. Plays better than his stats indicate. Nice part is he is really good at the run game as well. I think he would make a good 1st rd pick.

[run pMc]

I don't think we need to draft a WR early. I do think they need to draft one though.
CB, OT, DL are the priorities. WR and RB might be right behind that. I'd say LB too but I think they will just go with Barnes/Martin and repeat their search of the UDFA bin for diamonds.

[Joemailman]

Barry talked a lot yesterday about the importance of the slot corner position. This draft is very strong at Safety in rounds 2-3. I think we could see the Packers draft a Safety earlier than people expect and then use Savage a lot at the slot corner position. That was actually where Savage mostly played his last year at Maryland.

[Upnorth]

Barry talked a lot yesterday about the importance of the slot corner position. This draft is very strong at Safety in rounds 2-3. I think we could see the Packers draft a Safety earlier than people expect and then use Savage a lot at the slot corner position. That was actually where Savage mostly played his last year at Maryland.

He is fast enough and a decent tackler. Has a nose for the ball.

[call_me_ishmael]

Barry talked a lot yesterday about the importance of the slot corner position. This draft is very strong at Safety in rounds 2-3. I think we could see the Packers draft a Safety earlier than people expect and then use Savage a lot at the slot corner position. That was actually where Savage mostly played his last year at Maryland.

This is a really interesting idea. I wonder what sort of options this opens up in the draft. Could enable them to choose the better of the two if it's a safety or a corner.

[Joemailman]

My Fanspeak mock draft
29: R1 P29 OT Teven Jenkins - Oklahoma State
62: R2 P30 LB Zaven Collins - Tulsa
92: R3 P28 S Talanoa Hufanga - USC
135: R4 P30 RB Demetric Felton - UCLA
142: R4 P37 RB Khalil Herbert - Virginia Tech
174: R5 P29 WR Cornell Powell - Clemson
178: R5 P33 CB Robert Rochell - UCA
215: R6 P29 EDGE Tarron Jackson - Coastal Carolina
221: R6 P35 LB Garret Wallow - TCU
254: R7 P28 C Bryce Hargrove - Pitt

[SudsMcBucky]

Here's how my mock turned out on the Draft Network:

29: Nick Bolton, LB Mizzou
62: D'Wayne Eskridge, WR Western Mich
92: Jackson Carman, OT Clemson
135: Tre Brown, CB Oklahoma
142: Tedarrell Slaton, IDL Florida
174: Divine Deablo, S Va Tech
178: Drake Jackson, IOL Kentucky
215: Tony Poljan, TE Virginia
221: Elijah Mitchell, RB Louisiana
250: Marco Wilson, CB Florida

[jklowan]

What do you guys think of AMARI ROGERS outta Clemson, seems like he might be a later round 3rd/4th option as a slot with alot of college production

[Joemailman]

What do you guys think of AMARI ROGERS outta Clemson, seems like he might be a later round 3rd/4th option as a slot with alot of college production

I like him as a Randall Cobb kind of guy.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/prospect-rankings


Amari Rodgers was a factor in 2018 and 2019 but saved his best for last as he hauled in 77 receptions for 1,020 yards and seven touchdowns during his final campaign at Clemson in 2020. The veteran of the receiving corps in 2020, Rodgers was the go-to guy for the Tigers’ offense during his last season. Rodgers is a slot receiver that is built like a running back. He thrived with manufactured touches and then using his physicality, burst, vision, and decisiveness to work after the catch. As his production increased as a senior, so did his role in the offense. 2020 saw Rodgers produce more down the field in addition to his work in the short to intermediate areas of the field. He has reliable hands, plays a physical brand of football, and is a good athlete. When it comes to identifying areas of growth for Rodgers, developing his route tree and finding more consistency when challenged at the catch point stand out. Rodgers lacks length and struggles to extend his catch radius which creates some limitations. Rodgers has a chance to be a featured slot receiver in the NFL for an offense predicated on timing.

Ideal Role: Primary slot receiver that gets some manufactured touches and opportunities to create in space while providing value with his punt return ability.

[jklowan]

1st mock here....



29. Green Bay Packers

Samuel Cosmi
OT, Texas


62. Green Bay Packers

Asante Samuel Jr.
CB, Florida State


Green Bay Packers

Alim McNeill
IDL, NC State


135. Green Bay Packers

Dazz Newsome
WR, North Carolina


142 Green Bay Packers

Adetokunbo Ogundeji
EDGE, Notre Dame



174.

Green Bay Packers

Anthony Schwartz
WR, Auburn


178.

Green Bay Packers

Pooka Williams
RB, Kansas


215.

Green Bay Packers

Shaka Toney
EDGE, Penn State


221.

Green Bay Packers

K.J. Britt
LB, Auburn


250.

Green Bay Packers

Cole Van Lanen
OT, Wisconsin

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Here's how my mock turned out on the Draft Network:

29: Nick Bolton, LB Mizzou
62: D'Wayne Eskridge, WR Western Mich
92: Jackson Carman, OT Clemson
135: Tre Brown, CB Oklahoma
142: Tedarrell Slaton, IDL Florida
174: Divine Deablo, S Va Tech
178: Drake Jackson, IOL Kentucky
215: Tony Poljan, TE Virginia
221: Elijah Mitchell, RB Louisiana
250: Marco Wilson, CB Florida

Letting an app randomly select names out of a pool ain’t no fucking mock draft.

To master the art of the mock draft, one has to research the prospects, watch YouTube clips of the prospects, analyze the prospects and then explain why the German Shepherd should draft the prospects should they fall to him like the Great Arm of Butte did in 2005 to the Majestic Polar Bear.

Y’all are amateurs. Let the professionals do the mocks. I hold a Master’s in Mock Draft from the Mel Kiper Jr. School of College Football Scouting and Hair Design @ the prestigious ESPN U.

Stay tuned for my ingenious My Mastery Mockery of a Draft.

[SudsMcBucky]

Letting an app randomly select names out of a pool ain’t no fucking mock draft.

To master the art of the mock draft, one has to research the prospects, watch YouTube clips of the prospects, analyze the prospects and then explain why the German Shepherd should draft the prospects should they fall to him like the Great Arm of Butte did in 2005 to the Majestic Polar Bear.

Y’all are amateurs. Let the professionals do the mocks. I hold a Master’s in Mock Draft from the Mel Kiper Jr. School of College Football Scouting and Hair Design @ the prestigious ESPN U.

Stay tuned for my ingenious My Mastery Mockery of a Draft.

I'll be waiting with bated breath.

[Joemailman]

Decent writeup on Tevin Jenkins - OT - Oklahoma St. If the Packers draft him in 1st round, he'd be favorite to be starting RT on opening day. Packers have already had a virtual meeting with him.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/nfl-draft-2021/2021/3/1/22307140/packers-nfl-draft-2021-oklahoma-state-ot-teven-jenkins


Pros
Massive, powerful dude
Road-grading tackle
He’s going to find someone to block — looks for work
He will put you in the f*cking ground
Plays an aggressive style of football even in pass pro
Keeps his feet moving on contact
Consistently hits multiple targets when needed
He takes someone to IHOP once a gap at least
Violent, heavy hands
Can get pushed back and re-anchor
Fights to the echo of the whistle
Excellent positional blocker
Understands when to pull his hands away to avoid holding calls when he’s out of position
Handled Texas’ Joseph Ossai
Wins early so consistently
When guys try to run the loop, he can handle it
Handles pass-offs
Quick feet into kickslide
Attacks your chest in pass pro
Even if he’s not in ideal position, he wins because he plays with an edge
They rarely send help to his side

Cons

A ton of quick throws in the OSU passing game so he doesn’t have to sustain pass blocks often
Lost on an inside move vs WVU for a holding call in 2020
Can be a little lunge-y at times, but he’s such a fighter/powerful that it doesn’t really matter
I do wonder about his ability to sustain pass blocks
When he loses, it tends to be on inside counters — does he have the lateral explosiveness to handle that?
He’s a bad cut blocker (who cares)
Only pass block rep I saw him lose was on a screen so he wasn’t really trying to sustain anyway

Summary

The only question I have about Jenkins is how much the Cowboys’ scheme masks his potential deficiencies. With what they ask him to do, he’s as good as any OT in this class. He’s powerful, nasty, aggressive, and effective. He wins run blocks 10 out of 10 times, moving bodies and burying them where you may never find them.

Jenkins’ power and approach helps him win in the pass game where his athletic traits may fail him. His lateral agility isn’t plus plus and his speed to the corner could get exposed against elite rushers, but he rarely lost pass-rush reps because he engages first with his length and power. As an NFL RT, he’s everything you want even with the question marks. If you think absence of proof isn’t proof of absence, there’s no reason not to take Jenkins top-20 and feel great about it.

He’s a first-round talent all day. For a team like the Packers, who wouldn’t need him to be an All-Pro, could keep him on the right side, and would relish running behind him with the bruising A.J. Dillon, there’s plenty of like about this fit.

[Upnorth]

Decent writeup on Tevin Jenkins - OT - Oklahoma St. If the Packers draft him in 1st round, he'd be favorite to be starting RT on opening day. Packers have already had a virtual meeting with him.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/nfl-draft-2021/2021/3/1/22307140/packers-nfl-draft-2021-oklahoma-state-ot-teven-jenkins

While perfect for our line he won't make it to us unfortunately.

[Upnorth]

So we get 3 comp picks. A 4, 5 and 6. That will help with depth.

I have only seen articles that show us interviewing CB and wr. No other positions (but I may miss some of course). Showing our hand or deception?

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2021/03/10/packers-meet-virtually-with-ucla-rb-wr-demetric-felton/

So not a wr specifically but close enough.
Plus getting him if he can be even 75% as effective in a rb/we role would be phenomenal.

[Joemailman]

So we get 3 comp picks. A 4, 5 and 6. That will help with depth.

I have only seen articles that show us interviewing CB and wr. No other positions (but I may miss some of course). Showing our hand or deception?

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2021/03/10/packers-meet-virtually-with-ucla-rb-wr-demetric-felton/

So not a wr specifically but close enough.
Plus getting him if he can be even 75% as effective in a rb/we role would be phenomenal.Here's a link to a list of players they have met with. https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2021/2/26/22303016/packers-2021-nfl-draft-prospect-meeting-tracker-rondale-moore-asante-samuel

[Upnorth]

Here's a link to a list of players they have met with. https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2021/2/26/22303016/packers-2021-nfl-draft-prospect-meeting-tracker-rondale-moore-asante-samuel

Well that proves me wrong. Good link joe.

[Fritz]

I don't follow the draft much any more so I don't know the players, but I'd like to see them draft position-wise in this order:

Defensive tackle-end
Corner
Offensive tackle
receiver

[Joemailman]

I don't follow the draft much any more so I don't know the players, but I'd like to see them draft position-wise in this order:

Defensive tackle-end
Corner
Offensive tackle
receiver

DT is kind of weak in the draft this year, at least as far as the 1st round is considered. Pretty good chance there will be a CB or OT worth taking in the 1st round.

[smuggler]

62: R2 P30 LB Zaven Collins - Tulsa

Seen this guy mocked to us quite a bit in round 1. There's a lot to like about him, but linebacker is one of the hardest positions to evaluate.

[Fritz]

DT is kind of weak in the draft this year, at least as far as the 1st round is considered. Pretty good chance there will be a CB or OT worth taking in the 1st round.

That's too bad. To me, that's a position of great need. But maybe they can get a vet free agent to fill in for a year, and try next year. Again, I don't know the players, but your mock draft, regarding positions, was solid to me except for the dire need for a defensive lineman. But you can't take one early if there ain't a really promising one to take.

[Joemailman]

That's too bad. To me, that's a position of great need. But maybe they can get a vet free agent to fill in for a year, and try next year. Again, I don't know the players, but your mock draft, regarding positions, was solid to me except for the dire need for a defensive lineman. But you can't take one early if there ain't a really promising one to take.

I think the value picks for DT will be in the 3-4 rounds. Unless Gutey wants to maneuver so he gets a fairly early 2nd round pick. People here may shudder if Gutey goes DT in the 3rd round due to Khyri Thornton and Montravius Adams.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The FA market seems to have a lot of veteran, decent (but not great) DT, so maybe we go that route to replenish the DL.

[bobblehead]

I don't follow the draft much any more so I don't know the players, but I'd like to see them draft position-wise in this order:

Defensive tackle-end
Corner
Offensive tackle
receiver

In order of need: BPA, BPA, BPA, BPA---but none of the QBs please.

[Bretsky]

The FA market seems to have a lot of veteran, decent (but not great) DT, so maybe we go that route to replenish the DL.



Was listening to Wildo and Tausch today and they are reporting Guter has been a lot of inquring about Veteran bang for your buck DL and CB's in free agency.

[call_me_ishmael]

The FA market seems to have a lot of veteran, decent (but not great) DT, so maybe we go that route to replenish the DL.

Any names in mind?

[HarveyWallbangers]

A bunch signed already, but here's an updated list from Packers Wire.


PFF’s top defensive linemen still available (as of Monday night): Jurrell Casey, Ndamukong Suh, Sheldon Rankins, Tyson Alualu, Kawann Short, Quinton Jefferson, Malcom Brown, DaQuan Jones, Lawrence Guy, Derek Wolfe

[Fritz]

Lawrence Guy? The same 7th round pick the Packers had for a few years, who then went on to, I think, NE?

He's still in the league?

Who are the best of this bunch? I don't keep track so much any more.

[jklowan]

Keep doing these and I think I would be happy with this.....

29: CB Greg Newsome II - Northwestern
62: OT Dillon Radunz - North Dakota State
92: DL Alim McNeill - NC State
135: LB Jabril Cox - LSU
142: WR Amari Rodgers - Clemson
173: CB Robert Rochell - Central Arkansas
177: WR Cornell Powell - Clemson
212: RB Kylin Hill - Mississippi State
218: OT Cole Van Lanen - Wisconsin
254: EDGE Chauncey Golston - Iowa

[HarveyWallbangers]

Keep doing these and I think I would be happy with this.....

29: CB Greg Newsome II - Northwestern
62: OT Dillon Radunz - North Dakota State
92: DL Alim McNeill - NC State
135: LB Jabril Cox - LSU
142: WR Amari Rodgers - Clemson
173: CB Robert Rochell - Central Arkansas
177: WR Cornell Powell - Clemson
212: RB Kylin Hill - Mississippi State
218: OT Cole Van Lanen - Wisconsin
254: EDGE Chauncey Golston - Iowa

I'd love these first four picks (two former Bison in Radunz and Cox), but Newsome may not be there in round 1. It's doubtful that Radunz is available at the end of round 2 and Cox is available at the end of round 4. That's why I don't do these things much. I think Radunz might be a surprise option for us at the end of round 1. Cox should go in the first three rounds.

[RashanGary]

Keep doing these and I think I would be happy with this.....

29: CB Greg Newsome II - Northwestern
62: OT Dillon Radunz - North Dakota State
92: DL Alim McNeill - NC State
135: LB Jabril Cox - LSU
142: WR Amari Rodgers - Clemson
173: CB Robert Rochell - Central Arkansas
177: WR Cornell Powell - Clemson
212: RB Kylin Hill - Mississippi State
218: OT Cole Van Lanen - Wisconsin
254: EDGE Chauncey Golston - Iowa

It would be cool for all of our biggest holes to get filled in one good draft. That's the kind of luck it takes to win a SB. Fingers crossed.

[RashanGary]

Packers have had a couple conversations with trevon moerig. He's a pure free safety with great instincts from center field. If you move Amos to linebacker, we get better at two spots. Barnes and Amos would be a nice pair.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I did one. Newsome was gone in round 1 and Radunz was gone in round 2. That would probably be the start of my dream draft. I did 4 rounds because I don't know the prospects well enough this year.

29. Jalen Mayfield OT, Michigan
62. Jabril Cox LB, LSU
92. Shaun Wade CB, Ohio State
135. Seth Williams WR, Auburn
142. Javian Hawkins RB, Louisville

[bobblehead]

Keep doing these and I think I would be happy with this.....

29: CB Greg Newsome II - Northwestern
62: OT Dillon Radunz - North Dakota State
92: DL Alim McNeill - NC State
135: LB Jabril Cox - LSU
142: WR Amari Rodgers - Clemson
173: CB Robert Rochell - Central Arkansas
177: WR Cornell Powell - Clemson
212: RB Kylin Hill - Mississippi State
218: OT Cole Van Lanen - Wisconsin
254: EDGE Chauncey Golston - Iowa

Kylin Hill at 212 would be awesome. I think he goes mid to late 3rd though. He likely would be available at the end of the 3rd when we pick though and that would be a nice value.

[Joemailman]

29: R1 P29 CB Gregory Newsome - Northwestern
62: R2 P30 DL Daviyon Nixon - Iowa
92: R3 P28 LB Dylan Moses - Alabama
135: R4 P30 RB Khalil Herbert - Virginia Tech
142: R4 P37 S Joshua Bledsoe - Mizzou
173: R5 P29 OT Spencer Brown - Northern Iowa
177: R5 P33 WR Whop Philyor - Indiana
212: R6 P29 LB KJ Britt - Auburn
218: R6 P35 QB Shane Buechele - SMU
254: R7 P28 WR Marquez Stevenson - Houston

Could have had Radunz in Round 1. Probably should have taken him. Wanted to see how things would fall. All the top ones were gone by the time the Packers picked in Round 2.

[Joemailman]

Jim Nagy
@JimNagy_SB
· 2h
Five GMs in Columbia, SC for today's @GamecockFB pro-day to checkout likely first-round CB Jaycee Horn and dynamic WR Shi Smith:

BrainSaints Jeff Ireland
BrainDolphins Chris Grier
BrainBroncos George Paton
BrainPackers Brian Gutekunst
BrainTitans Jon Robinson

* Also Titans HC Mike Vrabel

Jaycee Horn is definitely a guy Packers would have to consider in Round 1 if he's available. Shi Smith probably 3-4 round. https://www.profootballnetwork.com/shi-smith-nfl-draft-player-profile-south-carolina-wide-receiver/

[Fritz]

In order of need: BPA, BPA, BPA, BPA---but none of the QBs please.

This is always the struggle I have. I theoretically agree with you, and I think when GM's actually do this (Rodgers with Thompson, Dillon and Gary with Gutes) it tends to work out pretty well. But when I think about team needs, man, a DL to really shore up that line, or a shut down CB, would be so great.

But if you can get what you think will be, say, an All-World wide receiver versus an okay starting corner, you'd want the receiver, even if you need a corner more...

[Joemailman]

Interesting thing about Gutey is that he has traded up in the 1st round every year.

In 2018 he traded down from 14 to 27 and picked up Saints 2019 1st round pick. But then traded up from 27 to 18 and drafted Jaire Alexander.

In 2019 he had the 12th pick and the 30th pick. He stayed put with the 12th but then traded up from 30 to 21 and drafted Darnell Savage.

In 2020 he traded up from 30 to 26 and drafted Jordan Love.

[Bretsky]

I think the value picks for DT will be in the 3-4 rounds. Unless Gutey wants to maneuver so he gets a fairly early 2nd round pick. People here may shudder if Gutey goes DT in the 3rd round due to Khyri Thornton and Montravius Adams.


Nearly ALL of our 3rd round picks SUCK

We'd be happier if we traded up OR down year after year after year

[Bretsky]

Interesting thing about Gutey is that he has traded up in the 1st round every year.

In 2018 he traded down from 14 to 27 and picked up Saints 2019 1st round pick. But then traded up from 27 to 18 and drafted Jaire Alexander.

In 2019 he had the 12th pick and the 30th pick. He stayed put with the 12th but then traded up from 30 to 21 and drafted Darnell Savage.

In 2020 he traded up from 30 to 26 and drafted Jordan Love.




That trade Back turned out Great; Davenport has underperformed for the Saints

[Joemailman]

49ers trade up to the 3rd pick in the draft. Dolphins get 49ers 1st round pick (#12), 3rd round comp pick, and 49ers 2022 and 2023 1st round picks.

Obviously 49ers taking a QB. Buh-bye Jimmy G.

[texaspackerbacker]

Two future firsts and a late 3rd just to move up from 12th to 3rd? Wow, that's a helluva lot. If I was a Dolphin fan, I'd be very very pleased.

[Jaire]

49ers trade up to the 3rd pick in the draft. Dolphins get 49ers 1st round pick (#12), 3rd round comp pick, and 49ers 2022 and 2023 1st round picks.

Obviously 49ers taking a QB. Buh-bye Jimmy G.

Well. So much for the niners future. If they had moved into the 2 spot, I'd be concerned.

Smart move by Miami. They'll get a solid pick at 12 and have a stack of picks. Miami doesn't need to draft QB high in back to back years.

[RashanGary]

Jalen Mayfield could be the pick. Not a ton of experience but he’s a high upside player and a technician by nature. The Packers seem to do best with lineman who are technically sound. He seems like a Bryan Bulaga 2.0 but might take one year to develop as he’s a little inexperienced with a shorter college career. If I had to guess one player, I’d guess Mayfield.

[Joemailman]

Now Dolphins have traded up to the 6th pick. Eagles will get 12th pick of 2021 and a 2022 1st round pick from Dolphins.

[RashanGary]

Now Dolphins have traded up to the 6th pick. Eagles will get 12th pick of 2021 and a 2022 1st round pick from Dolphins.

Nice move for eagles. Jalen hurts gonna get his shot

[Joemailman]

Jets at #2 is interesting. There are 3 likely options:

1. Stay at #2 and draft Darnold's replacement.
2. Stay at #2 and provide Darnold with either the best OT or best WR in the draft.
3. Trade down and pick up picks for 2021 or maybe a 1st round pick in 2022.

[Bretsky]

Great Move By Eagles

[texaspackerbacker]

I still think the Packers draft a Corner in the first round. I put ILB and D Line also as greater needs and more likely in early rounds than O Line.

[call_me_ishmael]

Great Move By Eagles

Depends if you think you can get a stud QB, but in general my preference is to trade down, especially after they gave away so many picks to get Wentz and now he's gone.

[call_me_ishmael]

Jets at #2 is interesting. There are 3 likely options:

1. Stay at #2 and draft Darnold's replacement.
2. Stay at #2 and provide Darnold with either the best OT or best WR in the draft.
3. Trade down and pick up picks for 2021 or maybe a 1st round pick in 2022.

I think somebody is gonna move up for the QB.

[Joemailman]

I think somebody is gonna move up for the QB.

Carolina at #8 would be my guess. They have Bridgewater at QB now.

[smuggler]

Gotta think the biggest need is OT right now. Doesn't make it the pick, though.

[bobblehead]

Just watched Amon Ra St. Brown's pro day. He is stacked. He looks like a very rich mans Tyler Ervin. Think Brandon Aiyuk or Deebo Samual. We need a guy like that. Ran a 4.51 but I don't value the 40 like most. He was good everywhere and caught the ball with his hands. Played mostly slot last season. Wouldn't cry if he fell to us in the 2nd.

[Upnorth]

Only way we can spend a 2nd rd pick on the God king is if we get a CB or ot in fa. So a cb based on current market. The need is too great in those 2 places.

I have been down on this team a bit more than usual lately but they are a good and solid team who without injuries will make a lot of noise

[Bretsky]

Depends if you think you can get a stud QB, but in general my preference is to trade down, especially after they gave away so many picks to get Wentz and now he's gone.


I think they want a stud WR and will get one

[bobblehead]

Only way we can spend a 2nd rd pick on the God king is if we get a CB or ot in fa. So a cb based on current market. The need is too great in those 2 places.

I have been down on this team a bit more than usual lately but they are a good and solid team who without injuries will make a lot of noise

You're down on a team that went to back to back NFCC games, retained everyone except Lindsey and has several player ascending and very few descending? Strange.

[Joemailman]

I still think the Packers draft a Corner in the first round. I put ILB and D Line also as greater needs and more likely in early rounds than O Line.

They might need to trade up to get a CB in the 1st round. It could happen. Gute traded up in the 1st round to draft both Alexander and Savage.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'd be ok with that. I read where Gutekunst attended the Florida State pro day, probably for Asante Samuel. It's likely we would need to trade up to get him.

[RashanGary]

QB, OL and WR are deep this year. Looks like OL is a really good possibility in R1

[Upnorth]

You're down on a team that went to back to back NFCC games, retained everyone except Lindsey and has several player ascending and very few descending? Strange.

Offensive regression to the mean. Defence coordinator has been bad at best and historically bad at worst. Special teams like slocum.
Weaker oline corner issues. That is why.

[red]

Two future firsts and a late 3rd just to move up from 12th to 3rd? Wow, that's a helluva lot. If I was a Dolphin fan, I'd be very very pleased.

and swapping of this years firsts

so they get 3 firsts and a 3rd for the #3 pick

hell of a haul for the fins

sometimes it really pays to have a bad year every now and then

[red]

QB, OL and WR are deep this year. Looks like OL is a really good possibility in R1

i don't know if i'd go OL in the first. we've had so much luck over the years drafting those guys in later rounds

bulaga ang jenkins are the two that went in the first 2 rounds, all the others were mid rounders

same for D-line

[RashanGary]

i don't know if i'd go OL in the first. we've had so much luck over the years drafting those guys in later rounds

bulaga ang jenkins are the two that went in the first 2 rounds, all the others were mid rounders

same for D-line

True. OT is a little tougher to find. We need a lucky class, a whole bunch of hits. Let's hope.

[Bretsky]

True. OT is a little tougher to find. We need a lucky class, a whole bunch of hits. Let's hope.


We could use some luck

I kind of think Gooters is going to trade up a get a CB he really likes...maybe Newsome. We don't value ILB's and I assume we'll continue to Ride our MVP to make the receivers better so I'm not expecting a high round WR either.

I think we stock up on CB's, OL, and DL and then use the coin toss mid to late rounds for help at WR and/or RB.

[Sparkey]

I've read some draft projections showing Micah Parsons slipping to us. He would make a positive impact from day one. I done believe he will fall that far, but if he did. Wow what a steal that would be.

[RashanGary]

We could use some luck

I kind of think Gooters is going to trade up a get a CB he really likes...maybe Newsome. We don't value ILB's and I assume we'll continue to Ride our MVP to make the receivers better so I'm not expecting a high round WR either.

I think we stock up on CB's, OL, and DL and then use the coin toss mid to late rounds for help at WR and/or RB.

Not valuing ILbs is getting weird. So many of the good defenses have them, all of the good defenses. It's bizarre.

[bobblehead]

End of the day it still has to be the BPA. If that doesn't coincide with a perceived need so be it. I laid it out once before. Name me a position we couldn't use an impact player at. If the best player left when we pick is clearly a XYZ, take him....unless its a QB.

[Upnorth]

End of the day it still has to be the BPA. If that doesn't coincide with a perceived need so be it. I laid it out once before. Name me a position we couldn't use an impact player at. If the best player left when we pick is clearly a XYZ, take him....unless its a QB.

QB. Te (short of hof level). Rb.
This may sound ridiculous after last off season but after those 3 it is we that we least need an impact player. The edge rusher.
That is a great list of not or low need. And I mean need not want.

[The Shadow]

For the first time in many, many years I'm just not into the draft. Last year's tremendously underwhelming one took the starch out of my enthusiasm.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I've read some draft projections showing Micah Parsons slipping to us. He would make a positive impact from day one. I done believe he will fall that far, but if he did. Wow what a steal that would be.

Not after his Pro Day. Dude ran a 4.39.

[Bretsky]

Not valuing ILbs is getting weird. So many of the good defenses have them, all of the good defenses. It's bizarre.


I completely agree ; you look at some of the dominant defenses....many have speed and a playmaker it ILB.

[smuggler]

Yeah it's something that may change with the new DC though. I know it's not acknowledged, but GMs are working to get players that can fulfill coaching gameplans. Different DC, different gameplan, perhaps.

[red]

For the first time in many, many years I'm just not into the draft. Last year's tremendously underwhelming one took the starch out of my enthusiasm.

last year about this time, i was saying that i would have been fine drafting anything in the first round as long as it was a QB and i think RB.

we traded up for a QB in the first and drafted a RB in the second

i lost all faith in the packers process after that

[red]

I completely agree ; you look at some of the dominant defenses....many have speed and a playmaker it ILB.

you and me have been screaming for taking a dominate ILB in the first for god knows how many years now, at least a decade it feels like. i remember screaming for us to take ahmad brooks in the 2006 Supplemental draft

its just not gonna happen

[RashanGary]

you and me have been screaming for taking a dominate ILB in the first for god knows how many years now, at least a decade it feels like. i remember screaming for us to take ahmad brooks in the 2006 Supplemental draft

its just not gonna happen

As the resident homer, I am starting to find this a tad perplexing. Why undervalue a spot so hard, like 4th round is highest we would take an ILB. I can see center because 4tg round centers are usually good. But 4th round ILBs are usually garbage. Rounds 1-3 usually gets the good ones.

[run pMc]

and swapping of this years firsts

so they get 3 firsts and a 3rd for the #3 pick

hell of a haul for the fins

sometimes it really pays to have a bad year every now and then

They can thank Bill O'Brien and the Laremy Tunsil trade for this. I like what the Dolphins are doing though. They'll have something like 6 R1's in 3 years. That's a nice infusion of good cheap talent.

[run pMc]

As the resident homer, I am starting to find this a tad perplexing. Why undervalue a spot so hard, like 4th round is highest we would take an ILB. I can see center because 4tg round centers are usually good. But 4th round ILBs are usually garbage. Rounds 1-3 usually gets the good ones.

Matt Milano's going ok for BUF.
Desmond Bishop had his brief moment in the sun for GB back in the day as a R6 pick.
I'll stet the obvious that you are more likely to find a good ILB (or any other position) if you draft one higher, but I also think you can get lucky and with good coaching at least be average-to-above average.
Barry is supposedly good coaching up LB's, we'll see about that.

For the record, I think they need another ILB. I don't trust Krys Barnes or Kamal Martin to stay healthy for 17+ games, and the depth behind them is unsettling.

I think you get more value drafting other positions in R1 than ILB, unless you know you're absolutely getting a stud like Patrick Willis or Kuechly. Nowadays defenses play sub-package so often you can usually get away with mediocre ILBs.

[Joemailman]

Gute at Minnesota's Pro Day today to see WR Rashod Bateman and CB Benjamin St Juste. St-Juste is a big CB who would likely be a middle round pick. http://https://www.profootballnetwork.com/benjamin-st-juste-nfl-draft-player-profile-minnesota-cornerback/

[Fritz]

Gute at Minnesota's Pro Day today to see WR Rashod Bateman and CB Benjamin St Juste. St-Juste is a big CB who would likely be a middle round pick. http://https://www.profootballnetwork.com/benjamin-st-juste-nfl-draft-player-profile-minnesota-cornerback/

Draft him in the fourth, then package him and St. Brown and send them to New Orleans for two guys named Green.

[Jaire]

Gute going to every CB pro day.

[texaspackerbacker]

That's a good sign. Whoever we draft, it almost has to be a Corner - Newsome or Samuel or maybe Farley ideally, maybe Calvin Joseph.

[Fritz]

I think Asante Samuel sounds like he might be Jaire Alexander Part Deux, while Caleb Farley sounds like Kevin King redux.

[Jaire]

Samuel does not have Jaire's speed. He's a second round guy. I really do not want a CB in round one. It's a deep class. I want nothing to do with Fairley and Newsome because of injury.

It's a great draft to move down and stock up in rounds 2 to 4. We have lots of needs and can fill them all if we move down a bit. I'm not enamoured of the top of this class.

[RashanGary]

Samuel does not have Jaire's speed. He's a second round guy. I really do not want a CB in round one. It's a deep class. I want nothing to do with Fairley and Newsome because of injury.

It's a great draft to move down and stock up in rounds 2 to 4. We have lots of needs and can fill them all if we move down a bit. I'm not enamoured of the top of this class.

I agree. Round 2 looks like the place to be. Move back 10 spots and pick up another 3rd. Then move up with those two thirds and end up with 3 2nd round picks.

[RashanGary]

Three second rounders would feel like a haul. You get three very likely starters from one draft, plus a bunch of later round flyers.

[Fritz]

Wouldn't it be cool if that could happen? This is the time of year I fantasize about such things. Then the Packer GM takes a player I've either never heard of or dislike, based upon my detailed research, and I throw a fit.

[texaspackerbacker]

I really think/hope we do not trade down. Quantity we have plenty of across the board. Corner and maybe elsewhere, we could use a quality upgrade.

[RashanGary]

Wouldn't it be cool if that could happen? This is the time of year I fantasize about such things. Then the Packer GM takes a player I've either never heard of or dislike, based upon my detailed research, and I throw a fit.

Well, you have a profile. I, on the other hand, lay out what I expect and then when it goes the opposite, I convince myself of how great the move was and change my profile name to whatever surprise dud we pick with our high picks. Everyone has a niche here. Bretsky is going to hate the pick, that is a near certainty. And joemailman will like it. Everyone has their place.

[Fritz]

Well, you have a profile. I, on the other hand, lay out what I expect and then when it goes the opposite, I convince myself of how great the move was and change my profile name to whatever surprise dud we pick with our high picks. Everyone has a niche here. Bretsky is going to hate the pick, that is a near certainty. And joemailman will like it. Everyone has their place.

Bretsky and I share a history. We both wanted the Packers to draft Odell Thurman. We both admitted it was a good thing they didn't. We both like the idea of two attractive women, well, you know.

I don't know that Joe will automatically like a pick. He's just more open than most of us are to seeing the possibilities.

Me, I admit my ignorance, then get pissed off anyway if the draft doesn't go the way I hope it does. Then I make fun of myself by pretending I'm not like that. It's all kinda fun.

But I do appreciate the Rats who do real research and share their opinions on players. That makes it easier for me to accept whoever it is that does get drafted.

So do you only change your profile name to first-round busts? Would you consider changing your name to Josh Jackson at some point? God I hope you never have to change it to Jordan Love...

[Fritz]

Well, you have a profile. I, on the other hand, lay out what I expect and then when it goes the opposite, I convince myself of how great the move was and change my profile name to whatever surprise dud we pick with our high picks. Everyone has a niche here. Bretsky is going to hate the pick, that is a near certainty. And joemailman will like it. Everyone has their place.

Oops . . . DP.

Funny how that means different things on different websites...

[Joemailman]

I have to admit that with both the Rashan Gary and Jordan Love picks I laughed because what the reaction here would be. Very entertaining.

When the Packers draft exactly who I think they should (HHCD, trade up for Jerel Worthy), it doesn't work out too well.

[RashanGary]

I have to admit that with both the Rashan Gary and Jordan Love picks I laughed because what the reaction here would be. Very entertaining.

When the Packers draft exactly who I think they should (HHCD, trade up for Jerel Worthy), it doesn't work out too well.

I hated the Clay pick and ranted about it. Clay ended up a packer HOFer. That's when I stopped taking my opinion so seriously.

[Bretsky]

The Packers most likely will trade up, and with Bateman and the STUD ILB available that we all crave, they will take a OL or CB that was projected be available when we pick anyways. Most likely this will kiss a 4th goodbye to do that. And then they'll fuck up in round 3 again. That is their consistency. Round 3 completely sucks year after year after year. They should just trade it for multiple 5th and 6th rounders and draft multiple OL there and some will stick.

And I still think Odell Smash Mouth Thurman would have been a GREAT Packer if he were a better human being. And also like Fritz, I crave multiple hot women at once :))

RASHAN GARY.......I was wrong on that one.....but you should really CHANGE YOUR NAME to JORDAN LOVE :)))

[Bretsky]

I hated the Clay pick and ranted about it. Clay ended up a packer HOFer. That's when I stopped taking my opinion so seriously.


You nailed the OL Carpenter dude; that is when I gave you some big kudos.

And as annoying and over the top GB Brandon could be.....dude did know a lot of drift shit and I liked that.

[RashanGary]

You nailed the OL Carpenter dude; that is when I gave you some big kudos.

And as annoying and over the top GB Brandon could be.....dude did know a lot of drift shit and I liked that.

I got lucky there ��

If I watched full games of guys, yeah, I might be able to do a decent job. But it's hard to watch 50 prospects, 2 games each to even have an opinion. I basically go off write ups but that's kind of subjective too. GMs all suck at drafting. Its that hard to do that no one does it at a 50% or better clip.


You watch the badgers and had TJ Watt pegged. That one wasn't luck.

[King Friday]

I really think/hope we do not trade down. Quantity we have plenty of across the board. Corner and maybe elsewhere, we could use a quality upgrade.

Few rookies come in and meaningfully contribute year one. I like having more capable rookies, because it vastly increases the odds that you will have multiple starting caliber players from a draft. Putting all your eggs in one basket for quality is only a good strategy if the basket isn't filled with turds.

[wist43]

I haven't looked at any draft stuff yet, but will start this weekend...

I hold out zero hope that Gute will fill any needs in the draft.... same ole 1265.

No stud at ILB, no help at WR, no help on the DL... first few picks will be developmental guys that they think have high ceilings, but not much use now, etc.

Without looking at any tape, my guess is OT at #29.

[Bretsky]

I haven't looked at any draft stuff yet, but will start this weekend...

I hold out zero hope that Gute will fill any needs in the draft.... same ole 1265.

No stud at ILB, no help at WR, no help on the DL... first few picks will be developmental guys that they think have high ceilings, but not much use now, etc.

Without looking at any tape, my guess is OT at #29.



IF we draft an OT at 29, and maybe get one of the top 5, you have to think he starts from day 1

[Sparkey]

The draft only provides instant help if your a shitty 4 or 5 win team with terrible talent and no depth.

It also helps that if you are the above team your picking top 12. Where the Packers usually pick, it's like starting with a 2nd round pick every year. You rarely find instant starters at the point.

The draft is all about the future. When you draft to fill specific needs you screw your team long term. Teams that don't plan 3-5 years out are always stuck in a perpetual cycle of losing.

[Upnorth]

The draft only provides instant help if your a shitty 4 or 5 win team with terrible talent and no depth.

It also helps that if you are the above team your picking top 12. Where the Packers usually pick, it's like starting with a 2nd round pick every year. You rarely find instant starters at the point.

The draft is all about the future. When you draft to fill specific needs you screw your team long term. Teams that don't plan 3-5 years out are always stuck in a perpetual cycle of losing.

this is 100% true. And as outsiders we don't see the practices and development like the team does so things like 2020 when we collectively lost our minds over no wr. Having one of the greatest passing seasons ever on a run heavy (for 2020) team I think proves wr isn't a true need, and wasn't in 2020.

Using this line of thought wr is a need in 2022 due to free agency so we should draft one or two this year.
If runyon is 85% as good as I think he will be and Jenkins can hold down lt till bakh gets back then ol isn't either.
I think CB is weak due to existing roster and I pray it turns out like wr last year.
Olb with the smiths contacts in 2022 is not do able so need.
Rb and s is not need at all.
Te. Could be our best position group but with injurberger and deguara being huge question marks, Add in lewis age and tonyon being so good how can we afford him in 2022 I think it could be a need in 2022.
I guess in a long term perspective with average player development I see our needs, in oorder, as
Dl wr CB ilb olb ol te from a 2022 perspective.

[Bretsky]

The draft only provides instant help if your a shitty 4 or 5 win team with terrible talent and no depth.

It also helps that if you are the above team your picking top 12. Where the Packers usually pick, it's like starting with a 2nd round pick every year. You rarely find instant starters at the point.

The draft is all about the future. When you draft to fill specific needs you screw your team long term. Teams that don't plan 3-5 years out are always stuck in a perpetual cycle of losing.




Oh I don't know about this

IF we passed on Gooters ManLove there were a ton of players picked after him that would have given us instant help.

I can think of a ton of players picked around 30 (TJ Watt anyone) who kicked ass right away

[Bretsky]

MY SIMULATED MOCK DRAFT (not gonna lie...I think I killed it)

1. Zaven Collins ILB - Tulsa- Brings us what we've been asking for the last 10 years
2. Jackson Carman OT LSU - Beast mode; he's had Trevor's blindside for a while
3. Tommy Togaia- DT- OSU- Young and could develop into a beast after showing ton of improvement in 2020
4. Anthony Schwartz WR-Auburn- Home run hitter and we need more of those
4. Shakir Brown CB Mich ST- Versatile CB who had upside to start outside or play in the slot
5. Dazz Newsome WR NC- Nice slot receiver for years to come
5. Richard Wildgoose CB UW MADTOWN- Don't sleep in the Goose; recently ran a 4.3 at Pro Day and he'd help GB
6. Kylin Hill RB Miss St- There's our RB who can function as a WR; there's are scat
6. Chauncey Golston Edge Iowa- Never ever have enough pass rushers
7. Isaaih Loudermilk--DL-- UW MADTOWN- Value here; he could really help our DL imo

[Bretsky]

GET IT DOWN GUTEBAG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj_vTMW9GKE

[texaspackerbacker]

Good Job with those two late Badger picks (I had no idea Wildgoose was that fast), but I still want a Corner in the first and D Line and ILB as higher priorities than O Line.

[Bretsky]

Good Job with those two late Badger picks (I had no idea Wildgoose was that fast), but I still want a Corner in the first and D Line and ILB as higher priorities than O Line.


Go watch the youtube clip of Zaven Collins I just posted in another thread; dude is all over the place and has more iNT's on that clip than our ILB's over the last 10 years I think.

The goose has a ton of spreed and he's solid IMO.

That Badger DL can't be much worse than the Northwestern yahoo's we keep signing :))

I kinda wanted to draft Jack Sanborne as well :))))

[texaspackerbacker]

"2. Jackson Carman OT LSU - Beast mode; he's had Trevor's blindside for a while" - the guy must be really mobile to cover Lawrence in South Carolina when he plays in Louisiana hahahahahaha. Oh, he actually plays for Clemson.

I think Sanborn has another year of eligibility. Is he coming out early?

[Joemailman]

Jets trade Sam Darnold to Panthers. So the Jets with the 2nd pick will be taking a QB.


In return for Darnold, the No. 3 overall draft pick in 2018, the Jets received three picks: a sixth-rounder in the 2021 draft later this month and a second-rounder and fourth-rounder in 2022.

[Joemailman]

"2. Jackson Carman OT LSU - Beast mode; he's had Trevor's blindside for a while" - the guy must be really mobile to cover Lawrence in South Carolina when he plays in Louisiana hahahahahaha. Oh, he actually plays for Clemson.

I think Sanborn has another year of eligibility. Is he coming out early?

Yes. Carman is rated a 2-3 round pick. He's huge (6-5, 345) and sometimes struggles with speed rushers. Might have to move to Guard.

[texaspackerbacker]

My point was, he didn't go to L.S.U. but to Clemson hahahahaha.

I guess I wouldn't mind the Packers getting him or another OT in the 3rd round, but I want Corner in the first and ILB or maybe D Line in the second.

I will say, though, Carman seems like a road grader type like I like, not the kind of O Lineman the Packers seem to prefer.

[red]

Jets trade Sam Darnold to Panthers. So the Jets with the 2nd pick will be taking a QB.

can we officially call him a flop now?

[RashanGary]

can we officially call him a flop now?

Geeze, I watched a few jets games and I liked Darnold. The Jets are pathetic. Darnold has a shot.

[Joemailman]

Darnold player great against the Packers 2 years ago as a rookie. Now he'll be on a team with 2 1000 yard receivers from last year plus Christian McCaffrey. He'll have a chance if his confidence hasn't been crushed from playing on a terrible Jets team for 3 years.

[call_me_ishmael]

Darnold player great against the Packers 2 years ago as a rookie. Now he'll be on a team with 2 1000 yard receivers from last year plus Christian McCaffrey. He'll have a chance if his confidence hasn't been crushed from playing on a terrible Jets team for 3 years.

I bet he becomes a pretty good player. I believe Charlotte got a good deal in this one.

Not bring it full circle but man, we took Jordan Love - a worse prospect - with a #1 when we could have gotten this homie for peanuts.

[sharpe1027]

I bet he becomes a pretty good player. I believe Charlotte got a good deal in this one.

Not bring it full circle but man, we took Jordan Love - a worse prospect - with a #1 when we could have gotten this homie for peanuts.

Sam's almost played out his rookie contract. Timing wise, it's probably not a good fit for him or the Packers.

[HarveyWallbangers]

As the draft approaches, I've gotten the bug. I'm not sure how long it will last. I pretty much got through the QBs and have moved on to other positions. I'm only studying the top 100 players or so. I like this QB class. Lawrence looks like a sure thing, but I'm not sure he'll be the best QB in the draft. Wilson looks like Mahomes/Rodgers throwing the ball--with the escapability to boot. However, there were a surprising number of missed open receivers in the film that I watched. I also heard he has Rodgers cockiness. That can be good (Rodgers) or bad (Rosen). I'm on the Justin Fields bandwagon. Everybody expects him to Cardale Jones or Dwayne Haskins, but he's much better than those guys. Trey Lance has great potential (strongest arm in the draft, athleticism, natural leader). He does have some accuracy issues on throws to his right though, and I do think he'll need a year or two to develop. Word is the 49ers are going to take Mac Jones. He's a solid prospect, but I don't see him being better than the top four guys. I'm sure he'll do well for Shanahan, but I think he's more Kirk Cousins than Tom Brady. Davis Mills, maybe Kellen Mond, will probably be my #6 guy. Those guys are more like 3rd round talents to me.

Of the 9 guys I watched, my rankings:

1) Trevor Lawrence, Clemson
2) Justin Fields, Ohio State
3) Zach Wilson, BYU

4) Trey Lance, NDSU
5) Mac Jones, Alabama

6) Kellen Mond, Texas A&M
7) Davis Mills, Stanford

8) Jamie Newman, Wake Forest
9) Kyle Trask, Florida

[HarveyWallbangers]

TE Tommy Tremble, Notre Dame - looks like a good fit for what we want. A bit like a faster Josiah Deguara with worse hands. Blocks well from a number of different positions. He ran a 4.59 40 at his virtual Pro Day. When he did get an opportunity to run routes, his speed was noticeable, and he was pretty good after the catch. He fights the ball when catching the ball though. He's intriguing.

Anybody else looked at him?

[Bretsky]

TE Tommy Tremble, Notre Dame - looks like a good fit for what we want. A bit like a faster Josiah Deguara with worse hands. Blocks well from a number of different positions. He ran a 4.59 40 at his virtual Pro Day. When he did get an opportunity to run routes, his speed was noticeable, and he was pretty good after the catch. He fights the ball when catching the ball though. He's intriguing.

Anybody else looked at him?



I really like Tremble as well; he's be a really nice addition as a receiver IMO. Like him way more than Deguara. But how many TE's can we staff ?

and I really think Justin Fields is going to be the real deal. I don't think he busts at all. And good leader as well...can't believe I'm saying nice things about a OSU guy :))))

[HarveyWallbangers]

I really like Tremble as well; he's be a really nice addition as a receiver IMO. Like him way more than Deguara. But how many TE's can we staff ?

and I really think Justin Fields is going to be the real deal. I don't think he busts at all. And good leader as well...can't believe I'm saying nice things about a OSU guy :))))

I'm not sure what your problem with Deguara is. He played early and looked solid fulfilling his role. Unsung, but very useful. I'm guessing he'll be a long-time Packer--fulfilling the Kyle Juszczyk in the Shanahan offense. Tremble is a bit faster than Deguara (I think 4.59 at virutal Pro Day is probably more like mid 4.6s at the combine). Both are great blockers. Deguara has better hands and route running ability though. I have Tremble similarly rated to Deguara heading into their drafts (both as 3rd-4th round picks).

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Geeze, I watched a few jets games and I liked Darnold. The Jets are pathetic. Darnold has a shot.

Privileged, spoiled jerks from the ‘urbs are destined to fail in a sport where fat pigs tend to exploit ghetto thugs for profit.

Darnold was doomed from the get-go. Wait a fucking minute. Am I confusing Darnold for Josh Rosen?

As someone who is 1/3 black, 1/3 white, 1/3 Asian and 7/8 extraterrestrial, Rosen and Darnold look one and the same to me. Ditto, Deshaun Watson and Lamar Jackson.

[Upnorth]

What is everyonea thoughts on nico Collins.

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-draft-comps-michigan-wr-nico-collins

Both mvs and eq brown are on his. Comparable list. If he is around in 5th I bet we get him

[Joemailman]

What is everyonea thoughts on nico Collins.

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-draft-comps-michigan-wr-nico-collins

Both mvs and eq brown are on his. Comparable list. If he is around in 5th I bet we get himHe's probably flown under the radar a bit because he opted out in 2020 and had a bad QB in 2019. But I don't think he'd be available in the 5th round. 3rd is more like it. Green Bay would be a great spot for him because he wouldn't have to start right away.

[HarveyWallbangers]

RB group looks weak. I like Harris, Etienne, and Javonte Williams--but the top is below average and the rest is even weaker. I'm not enamored with much after that. I don't see much to get excited about in Carter, Gainwell, and others. One guy that I want to dig into more is Elijah Mitchell.

I went to four draft sites and added every player that is listed as top 100 in one of the draft sites, so I'm not looking at as many players. For RBs, the guys I looked at are:

Najee Harris
Travis Etienne
Javonte Williams

Michael Carter
Trey Sermon

Kenneth Gainwell
Rhamondre Stephenson

Elijah Mitchell
Kylin Hill
Jermar Jefferson
Jaret Patterson
Chuba Hubbard

Larry Rountree

[HarveyWallbangers]

TE group looks a little weak also--except for Pitts. Freiermuth isn't much of a blocker. Kind of looks like Jace Sternberger to me. Besides Pitts, I don't think I'd take another TE in the first two rounds. Tremble and McKitty look intriguing. I'm going to look at them some more.

OT group looks good. There are good players in the first half of the draft, a sweet spot in the late 1st/early 2nd, and a few other guys that are intriguing. I thought I'd like Walker Little and Brady Christensen more--because of the hype they have been getting. I'd be happy with Jenkins, Eichenberg, or Radunz. Mayfield doesn't fit our athletic profile.

[Joemailman]

TE group looks a little weak also--except for Pitts. Freiermuth isn't much of a blocker. Kind of looks like Jace Sternberger to me. Besides Pitts, I don't think I'd take another TE in the first two rounds. Tremble and McKitty look intriguing. I'm going to look at them some more.

OT group looks good. There are good players in the first half of the draft, a sweet spot in the late 1st/early 2nd, and a few other guys that are intriguing. I thought I'd like Walker Little and Brady Christensen more--because of the hype they have been getting. I'd be happy with Jenkins, Eichenberg, or Radunz. Mayfield doesn't fit our athletic profile.

Every draft site I've looked at has downgraded Mayfield since his Pro Day. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that NFL teams have. I guess teams will have to decide whether Mayfield just had a bad day, or whether it means he lacks the athleticism he was thought to have.

[jklowan]

What I am hoping for is a trade down with either Miami or Jacksonville and we pick up 2 2nd rounders, thus giving us 3 second round picks and we address OT / CB & DL or LB in one fell swoop. I think that would be the start to a great draft.

[bobblehead]

RB group looks weak. I like Harris, Etienne, and Javonte Williams--but the top is below average and the rest is even weaker. I'm not enamored with much after that. I don't see much to get excited about in Carter, Gainwell, and others. One guy that I want to dig into more is Elijah Mitchell.

I went to four draft sites and added every player that is listed as top 100 in one of the draft sites, so I'm not looking at as many players. For RBs, the guys I looked at are:

Najee Harris
Travis Etienne
Javonte Williams

Michael Carter
Trey Sermon

Kenneth Gainwell
Rhamondre Stephenson

Elijah Mitchell
Kylin Hill
Jermar Jefferson
Jaret Patterson
Chuba Hubbard

Larry Rountree

Najee Harris is in his own Tier imo. He is fantastic. Some sleepers in this draft would be Gainwell and Kylin Hill. Would really like to see those guys in our system. Gainwell was viewed as part Joe Morris, part Darren Sproles. He has incredible vision and receiving ability. His biggest knock was SMALL!! But on his pro day he came in at 201 lbs and still ran a 4.42. He opted out when family members died from Covid. At 5'11" he is still just a tad slight for nfl RB, but in todays committee approach he is big enough. He is honestly my #2 rated RB in this draft and I would LOVE to land him at the end of round 2.

[Bretsky]

I'm not sure what your problem with Deguara is. He played early and looked solid fulfilling his role. Unsung, but very useful. I'm guessing he'll be a long-time Packer--fulfilling the Kyle Juszczyk in the Shanahan offense. Tremble is a bit faster than Deguara (I think 4.59 at virutal Pro Day is probably more like mid 4.6s at the combine). Both are great blockers. Deguara has better hands and route running ability though. I have Tremble similarly rated to Deguara heading into their drafts (both as 3rd-4th round picks).

I have never really considered Deguara worthy of a 3rd round pick. He’s ok I guess . Always thought very limited upside and he’s ok. What I hope for in round 5. Just my view

[Joemailman]

What I am hoping for is a trade down with either Miami or Jacksonville and we pick up 2 2nd rounders, thus giving us 3 second round picks and we address OT / CB & DL or LB in one fell swoop. I think that would be the start to a great draft.

I would like to see it, but I don't think it will happen. Gute has never traded out of the 1st round, and every year he has traded up in the 1st round (for Alexander, Savage and Love). Plus, both Miami and Jacksonville already have 2 1st round picks. Kind of doubt they'll feel the need to move up for another one.

Now that I've thoroughly analyzed why it won't happen, it probably will happen.

[run pMc]

Najee Harris is in his own Tier imo. He is fantastic. Some sleepers in this draft would be Gainwell and Kylin Hill. Would really like to see those guys in our system. Gainwell was viewed as part Joe Morris, part Darren Sproles. He has incredible vision and receiving ability. His biggest knock was SMALL!! But on his pro day he came in at 201 lbs and still ran a 4.42. He opted out when family members died from Covid. At 5'11" he is still just a tad slight for nfl RB, but in todays committee approach he is big enough. He is honestly my #2 rated RB in this draft and I would LOVE to land him at the end of round 2.

Yeah I'd switch Gainwell and Sermon on that list. Sermon is good, but Gainwell and Najee Harris are good runner with very good receiving skills. As for Gainwell's size, I don't think 5'11" is too small, the 201 might be. If you have him as the lightning to a thunderback you can do pretty well. Aaron Jones is 5'9" for example.
I actually think there are some pretty good RBs in this draft, including a few Harvey didn't list (I'm starting to like Khalil Herbert)... with the caveat that I like them later in the draft. I don't think you spend a high pick for RB, not with the offense MLF runs where you have a committee. Part of me thinks they will look for a Day 3 speedback like a Javian Hawkins who can take a few carries in the zone scheme, run jet sweeps and get YAC on checkdowns. The other part thinks they will do nothing, or draft a RB high again because Gute is a draft troll.


Now if Harris or Etienne falls outside the top 50 -- which I don't think happens -- then you start to see some irresistible value. Still, after dropping an expensive R2 on Dillon combined with their other needs I don't see RB being a priority pick for Gute.

[run pMc]

I have never really considered Deguara worthy of a 3rd round pick. He’s ok I guess . Always thought very limited upside and he’s ok. What I hope for in round 5. Just my view

I liked Deguara coming out of college, but not in R3. I had him as a mid-R4 to high-R5 pick.
Good hands, feisty, ok speed and routes for a TE. Was a go-to guy inside the 20 and productive player for them. His size/length was a limiting factor, and his athleticism is middling on the pro level, but he's a player you can win with.

I mean, they did ok with guys like Crabtree and he's at least that good.

[RashanGary]

Deguara is going to be a really good piece for the Packers offense. It might take him a year to get back to 100 from that injury. He's kind of good at everything he does. He's old school. He runs just fast enough to be a threat. Juszczyc is a good comp. Opens up all sorts of multi dimensional run/pass options. Even better when you have a traditional TE like Tonyan to further that agenda.

[RashanGary]

Deguara, Tonyan and Lazard are all three run/pass players who make unpredictability a real thing. It takes pressure off the OL, QB and running back to have guys who are multiple and to have an attack that's multiple.

[Bretsky]

Deguara, Tonyan and Lazard are all three run/pass players who make unpredictability a real thing. It takes pressure off the OL, QB and running back to have guys who are multiple and to have an attack that's multiple.

Adams is great; Tonya is really good, or at least he was last year.

Other than that, I'd argue all of our receivers are unpredictable :))

[HarveyWallbangers]

Lazard is damn near perfect for this offense. Jones is a great threat in the passing game who can run routes that a lot of backs can’t. MVS can take the top off. Lots of good fits for the offense. Just missing a Deebo Samuel type in the slot and running jet sweeps.

[Bretsky]

Lazard is damn near perfect for this offense. Jones is a great threat in the passing game who can run routes that a lot of backs can’t. MVS can take the top off. Lots of good fits for the offense. Just missing a Deebo Samuel type in the slot and running jet sweeps.

I didn't list Jones, but you know I'm that guys number one fan...or maybe 2 behind Tex :)))


You like that Florida WR ? He's Deebo but he'll go very high in round 2 or end of round 1.

[wist43]

Every draft site I've looked at has downgraded Mayfield since his Pro Day. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that NFL teams have. I guess teams will have to decide whether Mayfield just had a bad day, or whether it means he lacks the athleticism he was thought to have.

I haven't looked at Mayfield a lot, only enough to say "no" at 29... not sure where he belongs, but not in the first or second.

If I have time I'll go back and look at some of these guys I've crossed off as potential early round picks.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I kind of like this ILB group. I watched more of Zaven Collins and I'm on board. He can do it all (not a lot of man coverage on tape, but he's great in zone) and he's instinctive. He may not be might first choice in round 1 (depends on who's available), but I'd be on board with drafting him there.

[Fritz]

I haven't looked at Mayfield a lot, only enough to say "no" at 29... not sure where he belongs, but not in the first or second.

If I have time I'll go back and look at some of these guys I've crossed off as potential early round picks.

I hear Mayfield does not test well, and he comes from a shitty program (said the U of M grad).

As Nancy Reagan would advise us, just say no.

[RashanGary]

I kind of like this ILB group. I watched more of Zaven Collins and I'm on board. He can do it all (not a lot of man coverage on tape, but he's great in zone) and he's instinctive. He may not be might first choice in round 1 (depends on who's available), but I'd be on board with drafting him there.

He looks like a good player. Instinctive, smart, etc.... not very impactful though. I didn’t see a playmaker.

[Joemailman]

I hear Mayfield does not test well, and he comes from a shitty program (said the U of M grad).

As Nancy Reagan would advise us, just say no.

He wouldn't have a chance in practice against Rashan Gary.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm leaning towards Javonte Williams as top RB. The more I watch him the more that I like that guy. Not that we'll take him. He's like a faster James Robinson from Jacksonville.

[bobblehead]

I'm leaning towards Javonte Williams as top RB. The more I watch him the more that I like that guy. Not that we'll take him. He's like a faster James Robinson from Jacksonville.

He is the late blooming rose in the dynasty community. Everyones "sexy" pick to vault up ahead of ettienne. I'm not an ettienne fan, but I think Javonte is getting some of the hype that Mac Jones is getting. That guy that almost can't fail, but doesn't have the high upside. Agree, Williams can do it all. The James Robinson comp is pretty good. Robinson was undrafted leaving egg on the faces of 32 GMs.

[HarveyWallbangers]

He is the late blooming rose in the dynasty community. Everyones "sexy" pick to vault up ahead of ettienne. I'm not an ettienne fan, but I think Javonte is getting some of the hype that Mac Jones is getting. That guy that almost can't fail, but doesn't have the high upside. Agree, Williams can do it all. The James Robinson comp is pretty good. Robinson was undrafted leaving egg on the faces of 32 GMs.

I have no idea who is considered a riser or faller (there's really no such thing in the scouting community), but I was late to look at players. Must got the bug a couple of weeks ago. I really like Williams. His deep speed isn't great, but that's an overrated aspect of an RB (see Aaron Jones).

RB Williams, WR Bateman, OT Radunz, DL Alim McNeil, EDGE Payton Turner are some early draft crushes for me. I have some others that I like on initial viewing, but I'll hold off on declaring them a draft crush until I evaluate them more. :)

[Joemailman]

Looking at depth of the draft Top 65 at various positions according to Draft Network:

QB: 5
RB: 3
WR: 11
TE: 2
OT: 8
IOL: 4
IDL: 5
EDGE: 7
LB: 8
CB: 8
S: 4

[RashanGary]

Looking at depth of the draft Top 65 at various positions according to Draft Network:

QB: 5
RB: 3
WR: 11
TE: 2
OT: 8
IOL: 4
IDL: 5
EDGE: 7
LB: 8
CB: 8
S: 4

I’ve never seen that many inside linebackers in a single draft. Usually it’s like 4 guys in the first two rounds. 8 seems like double.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I’ve never seen that many inside linebackers in a single draft. Usually it’s like 4 guys in the first two rounds. 8 seems like double.

I don't think that is just ILBs. EDGE is 4-3 DEs and 3-4 OLBs. LB is off-ball LBs (4-3 LBs and 3-4 ILBs).

[wist43]

Positional definitions have definitely been in flux the past few years...

OLB's are now Edge, along with some lighter traditional DE's... defensive fronts have changed so much in the past 10 years that traditional 3-4 doesn't really exist anymore.

[wist43]

Didn't see what Harvey had posted... what he said.

[RashanGary]

I don't think that is just ILBs. EDGE is 4-3 DEs and 3-4 OLBs. LB is off-ball LBs (4-3 LBs and 3-4 ILBs).

Yeah, I say inside because I consider edge to be on the line of scrimmage. I could have said and should have said “off ball”

[bobblehead]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2021-nfl-mock-draft-patriots-and-broncos-trade-up-for-their-quarterbacks-bengals-reunite-burrow-with-chase/

Now here is a mock draft with a dilemma. When the packers pick Teven Jenkins, Christian Barmore and Craig Newsome are all available. Mock has them going Jenkins. I could be happy with either pick. Might spend my 15 minutes talking to KC about acquiring pick 31 also.

[Upnorth]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2021-nfl-mock-draft-patriots-and-broncos-trade-up-for-their-quarterbacks-bengals-reunite-burrow-with-chase/

Now here is a mock draft with a dilemma. When the packers pick Teven Jenkins, Christian Barmore and Craig Newsome are all available. Mock has them going Jenkins. I could be happy with either pick. Might spend my 15 minutes talking to KC about acquiring pick 31 also.

Pick Jenkins then try to trade back into the 1st immediately and get Newsome.
The get an assistant defensive coordinator and fire Barry. Then go get our owl

[wist43]

I think Jenkins, JOK, Newsome, and Bateman will all like very gone before 29.

[RashanGary]

JOK is kinda my fav right now. I liked mayfield on tape but I’m going to take his athletic limitations into account and drop him from the round 1 hopes list. As high as isiah Simmons went last year, a more instinctive even if slightly less athletic version should go top 20.

Any OL the Packers might take I’m gonna have hope for. We do well with OL.

I’ll watch Bateman and Newsome next.

[run pMc]

Yeah, I say inside because I consider edge to be on the line of scrimmage. I could have said and should have said “off ball”

yeah, I think Draft Network is wrong about the number of top 65 off-ball LBs (I call them ILBs). I'm highly skeptical of Baron Browning at 18. Top 100, yeah. I don't think GB is the only team out there who prioritizes other positions over ILB, and with so many sub-package defenses taking LBs off the field I'd think S would be more important. There are a number of teams including GB who use 3 safety looks.

[RashanGary]

yeah, I think Draft Network is wrong about the number of top 65 off-ball LBs (I call them ILBs). I'm highly skeptical of Baron Browning at 18. Top 100, yeah. I don't think GB is the only team out there who prioritizes other positions over ILB, and with so many sub-package defenses taking LBs off the field I'd think S would be more important. There are a number of teams including GB who use 3 safety looks.

True and probably the reason for so few ILBs going in the top two rounds the last 5-10 years. Jeremiah Owusu Koramoah is my favorite fit for this team. He can play sub almost like a safety and base almost like a linebacker. In the back 7, where chemistry and playing together is so important, I like a guy who never comes off the field. Less moving parts means more cohesiveness. Plus he’s a super instinctive, tough, fast PLAYMAKER, so he brings impact. I’d love to see him fall to the Packers. After that, I’m not sold on anyone. They’re too limited for modern defenses and Barnes looks solid enough to win with as the main off ball linebacker in our defense. It’s just not a need, outside of a special fit. And most teams have one good linebacker so they will all let them slide probably.

[wist43]

As I said earlier, most of the guys we're looking at will likely be gone by 29...

I'm thinking the guy I like at 29, assuming all those other names are off the board, is Kadarius Toney.

Think he would add an explosive element to our offense.

[bobblehead]

JOK is kinda my fav right now. I liked mayfield on tape but I’m going to take his athletic limitations into account and drop him from the round 1 hopes list. As high as isiah Simmons went last year, a more instinctive even if slightly less athletic version should go top 20.

Any OL the Packers might take I’m gonna have hope for. We do well with OL.

I’ll watch Bateman and Newsome next.

Agree. JOK is a late riser as "mock analysts" realize he is the prototypical hybrid billionaires version of Raven Green that teams desire.

[bobblehead]

True and probably the reason for so few ILBs going in the top two rounds the last 5-10 years. Jeremiah Owusu Koramoah is my favorite fit for this team. He can play sub almost like a safety and base almost like a linebacker. In the back 7, where chemistry and playing together is so important, I like a guy who never comes off the field. Less moving parts means more cohesiveness. Plus he’s a super instinctive, tough, fast PLAYMAKER, so he brings impact. I’d love to see him fall to the Packers. After that, I’m not sold on anyone. They’re too limited for modern defenses and Barnes looks solid enough to win with as the main off ball linebacker in our defense. It’s just not a need, outside of a special fit. And most teams have one good linebacker so they will all let them slide probably.

You like my Raven Greene comp? I have said for 2 1/2 years now that this defense is different with Raven on the field....and he isn't nearly the player JOK would be.

[RashanGary]

You like my Raven Greene comp? I have said for 2 1/2 years now that this defense is different with Raven on the field....and he isn't nearly the player JOK would be.

Pretty much but better at everything, yeah. And I could see him getting up to 225 later in his career with that length giving him more space to add weight.

[run pMc]

Whatever Gute does with this draft, I expect to be baffled and largely dislike (and possibly hate) it. Just like when TT was in charge.

By June, I'll have rationalized his moves away, or at least come to accept them as fait accompli and cheer for the bastards.

[RashanGary]

Whatever Gute does with this draft, I expect to be baffled and largely dislike (and possibly hate) it. Just like when TT was in charge.

By June, I'll have rationalized his moves away, or at least come to accept them as fait accompli and cheer for the bastards.

This is a far more plausible prediction than trying to guess the player. The Packer brass loves to make us squirm with head scratcher round 1 picks. At least Alexander, Gary and Savage are all panning out. Gute seems to be doing a nice job with his round 1 guys.

[Bretsky]

As I said earlier, most of the guys we're looking at will likely be gone by 29...

I'm thinking the guy I like at 29, assuming all those other names are off the board, is Kadarius Toney.

Think he would add an explosive element to our offense.



agree; definitely would prefer Bateman but this guy would add a dimension we don't have

[wist43]

agree; definitely would prefer Bateman but this guy would add a dimension we don't have

Starting to see more buzz on Toney... getting the impression he'll likely be gone by 29 too.

Of all the guys I've listed so far, I think most of them will be gone... gonna have to dig a little deeper :)

[HarveyWallbangers]

All of these guys aren't going to be gone when we pick. :) Toney is solid. I think he's projected right around where I have (late 1st). I like Marshall as much as Toney. Not sure if we would be looking more for a slot guy, but with most of our guys unsigned after this year we probably need to take a look at outside receivers too. One guy that doesn't generate a lot of buzz, but I think we would fit for us is Dyami Brown of North Carolina. He's a great deep ball guy and one of the better blockers in this draft class.

Dyami Brown Highlights (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhufZDqJgGk)

[Joemailman]

This is kinda cool.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2021/04/PackersWire_TradeValues2_JJ_2021.jpg

[Upnorth]

Finally found something I can contribute to the draft conversation

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/2/20/8072877/what-the-statistics-tell-us-about-the-draft-by-round

Slightly dated but still enough information to throw a bucket of cold water on our up coming excitement

[RashanGary]

Finally found something I can contribute to the draft conversation

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/2/20/8072877/what-the-statistics-tell-us-about-the-draft-by-round

Slightly dated but still enough information to throw a bucket of cold water on our up coming excitement

That should be an annual bump. That’s one of my favorite all time draft articles.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Finally found something I can contribute to the draft conversation

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/2/20/8072877/what-the-statistics-tell-us-about-the-draft-by-round

Slightly dated but still enough information to throw a bucket of cold water on our up coming excitement

Interesting article. The crib notes:

1) QB - Draft in the 1st round. Anybody drafted after the 3rd round rarely becomes a starter.
2) RB - High bust rate
3) OL - High success rate in the first 2 rounds. Not bad in round 3 & 4.
4) TE - Draft in the 3rd or 4th round.
5) WR - Success rate in 2nd round is almost as high as 1st round.
6) DL - High bust rate in the 1st round. Success rate in 4th round is higher than 2nd and 3rd round.
7) LB - Low bust rate in the 1st round
8) DB - Solid success rate in the 1st two rounds, but after that there's little difference between the later rounds.
9) OL, LB, and TE have the lowest bust rates.
10) Never take a QB, RB, TE in the 7th round. There's almost no hope they will be a starter.

So, we should take OL/LB in round 1, WR/CB in round 2, whatever value fits a top need that we didn't draft in the first 2 rounds. DL and TE in round 4.

So, something like OT, CB, LB or WR, DL and TE

[RashanGary]

Interesting article. The crib notes:

1) QB - Draft in the 1st round. Anybody drafted after the 3rd round rarely becomes a starter.
2) RB - High bust rate
3) OL - High success rate in the first 2 rounds. Not bad in round 3 & 4.
4) TE - Draft in the 3rd or 4th round.
5) WR - Success rate in 2nd round is almost as high as 1st round.
6) DL - High bust rate in the 1st round. Success rate in 4th round is higher than 2nd and 3rd round.
7) LB - Low bust rate in the 1st round
8) DB - Solid success rate in the 1st two rounds, but after that there's little difference between the later rounds.
9) OL, LB, and TE have the lowest bust rates.
10) Never take a QB, RB, TE in the 7th round. There's almost no hope they will be a starter.

So, we should take OL/LB in round 1, WR/CB in round 2, whatever value fits a top need that we didn't draft in the first 2 rounds. DL and TE in round 4.

So, something like OT, CB, LB or WR, DL and TE

OT is probably more like 65% and interior guys close to 100% in the first.
DTs are hard to find in any round. I always say take DTs if you think they’re good cuz there are very few good ones. Low hit rate in any round but the rarest find in football.
WR and corner are round 2 all day

[run pMc]

This is kinda cool.

It's amazing how Bill O'Brien left the Texans without a R1 and R2. He should've been fired sooner -- for his GM moves if not his coaching.
Vikings without their R2 because of Ngakue.

Packers with a lot of late round picks, so not a lot of ammo to really move up in R1 but could move around in R3-7. I think Gute will keep a lot of the picks and use them for cheap roster building in a year where they are facing cap hell.

[run pMc]

Finally found something I can contribute to the draft conversation

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/2/20/8072877/what-the-statistics-tell-us-about-the-draft-by-round

Slightly dated but still enough information to throw a bucket of cold water on our up coming excitement

This was an interesting read -- thanks for sharing.

Worth remembering this when looking back at previous drafts:

The reality is that if you can start in this league for at least half of your playing career, you are better than most.

[sharpe1027]

Interesting article. The crib notes:

1) QB - Draft in the 1st round. Anybody drafted after the 3rd round rarely becomes a starter.
2) RB - High bust rate
3) OL - High success rate in the first 2 rounds. Not bad in round 3 & 4.
4) TE - Draft in the 3rd or 4th round.
5) WR - Success rate in 2nd round is almost as high as 1st round.
6) DL - High bust rate in the 1st round. Success rate in 4th round is higher than 2nd and 3rd round.
7) LB - Low bust rate in the 1st round
8) DB - Solid success rate in the 1st two rounds, but after that there's little difference between the later rounds.
9) OL, LB, and TE have the lowest bust rates.
10) Never take a QB, RB, TE in the 7th round. There's almost no hope they will be a starter.

So, we should take OL/LB in round 1, WR/CB in round 2, whatever value fits a top need that we didn't draft in the first 2 rounds. DL and TE in round 4.

So, something like OT, CB, LB or WR, DL and TE

The high bust rates, if based in whether they become starters suggests that the NFL drafts too many players at that position.

[sharpe1027]

I think the numbers are suspect because they are based on a limited view of what is considered a bust.

A seventh round QB that plays 10 years in the league, fills in admirably during several times the starting QB is injured is not a bust, IMO. Neither is a player that plays for 10 years with lots of snaps and production but doesn't get the official start every game.

[RashanGary]

I think the numbers are suspect because they are based on a limited view of what is considered a bust.

A seventh round QB that plays 10 years in the league, fills in admirably during several times the starting QB is injured is not a bust, IMO. Neither is a player that plays for 10 years with lots of snaps and production but doesn't get the official start every game.

True... and some who start aren’t as good as others who don’t. See Kevin King vs Desmond King, who’s a career nickel. But it washes out. It’s a decent compilation.

[Upnorth]

His words on what constitutes success
"This post has a simple criteria: How many players were drafted by position and round over the last decade and how many went on to become a starter.

I did not distinguish superstars from regular starters. The determination of a starter comes from whether the player started at least half of their career. Obviously, this will run the gambit from below average to high performing starters. The reality is that if you can start in this league for at least half of your playing career, you are better than most"

While day 3 picks aren't expected to start day 1 and day 2 are (except in GB 2020 draft....) And so much focus is the first round so bust = not starting is a fair compromise. This is simple analysis for the average fan not high level analytics and I appreciate it.

[sharpe1027]

His words on what constitutes success
"This post has a simple criteria: How many players were drafted by position and round over the last decade and how many went on to become a starter.

I did not distinguish superstars from regular starters. The determination of a starter comes from whether the player started at least half of their career. Obviously, this will run the gambit from below average to high performing starters. The reality is that if you can start in this league for at least half of your playing career, you are better than most"

While day 3 picks aren't expected to start day 1 and day 2 are (except in GB 2020 draft....) And so much focus is the first round so bust = not starting is a fair compromise. This is simple analysis for the average fan not high level analytics and I appreciate it.
I did zero work, so this work is appreciated by comparison to my effort. I still think it is worth pointing out the issue I mentioned because it may skew a comparison by position quite a bit.

For example, DL tend to use heavy rotations, making the official starting lineups less relevant than OL or QB, which basically never rotate other than for injury or gadget plays.

[Upnorth]

So our dl is Clark (not bust) keel and lowery (not busts but some argue they basically suck). Then you ave I believe lancaster and no one (I think unless we resigned harrison and I missed it). I am comfortable saying Lancaster is a 'bust' at this level of analysis because he is a jag. As is Lowry at this point. Some teams are deep at dl so it balances out.
I see your point but feel like arguing it I guess.
My take away is our dl is depresding as f.

[bobblehead]

All of these guys aren't going to be gone when we pick. :) Toney is solid. I think he's projected right around where I have (late 1st). I like Marshall as much as Toney. Not sure if we would be looking more for a slot guy, but with most of our guys unsigned after this year we probably need to take a look at outside receivers too. One guy that doesn't generate a lot of buzz, but I think we would fit for us is Dyami Brown of North Carolina. He's a great deep ball guy and one of the better blockers in this draft class.

Dyami Brown Highlights (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhufZDqJgGk)

Marshall came in at 6'2" and played the slot most of his limited 2020 season.

I in no way want any part of Toney. I pray he is long gone when we pick.

[run pMc]

Good point on the DL vs QB. As a general measure this article's not bad.

Lancaster was a UDFA; I don't consider him a bust but I don't think you want him starting either.
Lowry and Keke are borderline starters at best. Clark needs a better running mate to help on the DL.

[run pMc]

Marshall came in at 6'2" and played the slot most of his limited 2020 season.

I in no way want any part of Toney. I pray he is long gone when we pick.

I don't want Toney at 29 either, which probably means they take him. I forget where, but some scout said he didn't run the routes from the playbook, or know how, which is worrisome. He's an unbelievable athlete with some of the best balance I've seen but he's a gadget guy. He's a bigger & slightly slower Rondale Moore. I could see MLF use him on jet sweeps, those stupid bubble screens, and out of the slot... but I wonder if Rodgers will trust him enough to throw him the ball. Also, given the depth of the WR class I think they can find someone who does 85% of that on Day 3.

I'm half expecting Gute to draft a pair of WRs Day 3 and park them on the PS for development. When the current crop hit FA at end of season they'll have a full year in the system to take over for MVS/Lazard/Funchess. Except for Adams... they need to keep him.

Gute has shown he drafts for the future (often) more than what they need now, so looking at what the roster holes will likely be this at time next year should provide some clues to what he'll do. Preston Smith and some of the WRs are likely gone. Billy Turner will have a year left. Two of Kevin King, Sullivan and Redmond will likely be gone. Burks, Josh Jackson. Lotta guys who haven't panned out, but a few who have they can't/won't keep... and either way, they are positions that need to be filled, and the draft is cheaper than FA.

[Joemailman]

I don't want Toney at 29 either, which probably means they take him. I forget where, but some scout said he didn't run the routes from the playbook, or know how, which is worrisome. He's an unbelievable athlete with some of the best balance I've seen but he's a gadget guy. He's a bigger & slightly slower Rondale Moore. I could see MLF use him on jet sweeps, those stupid bubble screens, and out of the slot... but I wonder if Rodgers will trust him enough to throw him the ball. Also, given the depth of the WR class I think they can find someone who does 85% of that on Day 3.

I'm half expecting Gute to draft a pair of WRs Day 3 and park them on the PS for development. When the current crop hit FA at end of season they'll have a full year in the system to take over for MVS/Lazard/Funchess. Except for Adams... they need to keep him.

Gute has shown he drafts for the future (often) more than what they need now, so looking at what the roster holes will likely be this at time next year should provide some clues to what he'll do. Preston Smith and some of the WRs are likely gone. Billy Turner will have a year left. Two of Kevin King, Sullivan and Redmond will likely be gone. Burks, Josh Jackson. Lotta guys who haven't panned out, but a few who have they can't/won't keep... and either way, they are positions that need to be filled, and the draft is cheaper than FA.

That comment by a scout probably needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Could be a team trying to disguise that they really like Toney. That said, route running at this point does not seem to be a strong point. He's had some nagging type injuries that have caused him to miss games a couple of years. My guess is Gute will feel he can find a slot/jet sweep/returner guy later in the draft. But he's an explosive player so I wouldn't rule out Gute rolling the dice on Toney.

[RashanGary]

Walker Little, OT, Stanford has a chance too. Dominant sophomore tape, injury after first game of junior season then opt out last year with covid.

[texaspackerbacker]

I got Walker Little late in the 4th round of my only mock draft, which seemed like a bargain. The guy not only sat out due to corona, though. He also had a knee injury and surgery in 2019. So maybe 4th round is about right.

[RashanGary]

“The evolution of this game has happened so much right before our guys,” another executive in personnel said. “These slot receivers, from 155 pounds up to 215, are productive, skilled, talented. Every school in the country has three- and four-receiver packages. The truth is, for every good lineman, there’s six wideouts. It is so crazy.”

From bob mcginns draft series, WR and TE. It’s like I say, there are a ton of WRs and not many good lineman in the NFL, especially tackle and defensive tackle.

[Fritz]

I got Walker Little late in the 4th round of my only mock draft, which seemed like a bargain. The guy not only sat out due to corona, though. He also had a knee injury and surgery in 2019. So maybe 4th round is about right.

That Eskridge kid from Western Michigan that Wist likes gets mentioned in an article I read in Acme. I like the idea of having a shifty guy in the slot and someone who could actually return punts and kicks and not just fair-catch the punts and let the kicks bounce through the end zone.

[wthigoot]

It's amazing how Bill O'Brien left the Texans without a R1 and R2. He should've been fired sooner -- for his GM moves if not his coaching.
Vikings without their R2 because of Ngakue.

Packers with a lot of late round picks, so not a lot of ammo to really move up in R1 but could move around in R3-7. I think Gute will keep a lot of the picks and use them for cheap roster building in a year where they are facing cap hell.

Seattle will probably be looking for a trade down in Rds 2 and 4 to get some extra picks. Should be able to jump up to there if there is a desired player. Can the comp picks be traded or is that still in the future?

[Fritz]

I think this year they can trade those comp picks. Glad they did that. It opens things up for good GM's, and creates a minefield for lousy GM's.

My problem in all this is that I read so little about these guys, that the one thing I read becomes my opinion, to the exclusion of all else. And I only get to know about ten or fifteen guys at all, so if the Packers pick someone not in that group, I automatically think it's a bad pick.

It's lazy fan dumbness. I don't know shit. You guys who watch some clips and do a lot of reading know a hell of a lot more than I do. But just remember Gute has watched about twenty times what you have. And has seen some of these guys in person, and talked to them. It doesn't mean he's a great GM - that's still to be determined - but he has a lot more information than we do. And most of you have a lot more information than I do.

And the one time I thought I knew something for real - because I'd watched Rashan Gary for a few years, albeit casually, and didn't see him do shit - it turns out I might've been wrong there, too.

[sharpe1027]

So our dl is Clark (not bust) keel and lowery (not busts but some argue they basically suck). Then you ave I believe lancaster and no one (I think unless we resigned harrison and I missed it). I am comfortable saying Lancaster is a 'bust' at this level of analysis because he is a jag. As is Lowry at this point. Some teams are deep at dl so it balances out.
I see your point but feel like arguing it I guess.
My take away is our dl is depresding as f.

It's not the worst metric, but it arguably doesn't translate well across different positions as a comparison. Seems most useful for assessing best round value for a single position.

I'd argue the bust percentage is a function of how much value is placed on a position. GMs will draft more at those positions. Since there's a fixed number of starting spots you necessarily have a higher bust rate by this metric.

[Upnorth]

It's not the worst metric, but it arguably doesn't translate well across different positions as a comparison. Seems most useful for assessing best round value for a single position.

I'd argue the bust percentage is a function of how much value is placed on a position. GMs will draft more at those positions. Since there's a fixed number of starting spots you necessarily have a higher bust rate by this metric.

So ol has more picks than any other yet has the highest success. I would argue that means 2 things
1) ol is seem by gms as one of the most important positions (likely 2nd most important right tex? )
2) it is likely the easiest position to scout for at least some level of sucess

[Bretsky]

A few definites from our Round one pick


GUTE will take somebody nobody initially likes. Then over time everybody who detested the pick will start talking themselves into the pick as being solid after drinking the homer juice.
I will be the second last one to give in, right ahead of Wist. It's partly due to my ongoing rage from back when TT shit on himself and passed on TJ WATT.

[sharpe1027]

So ol has more picks than any other yet has the highest success. I would argue that means 2 things
1) ol is seem by gms as one of the most important positions (likely 2nd most important right tex? )
2) it is likely the easiest position to scout for at least some level of sucess

If they drafted twice as many OL each year with their picks, the hit ratio would be roughly 50% lower.

There's a static number of OL starting opportunities.

[RashanGary]

If they drafted twice as many OL each year with their picks, the hit ratio would be roughly 50% lower.

There's a static number of OL starting opportunities.

True. 5 on every team so there are more of.thrm than any other position if you lump all OL together.

[RashanGary]

It's not the worst metric, but it arguably doesn't translate well across different positions as a comparison. Seems most useful for assessing best round value for a single position.

I'd argue the bust percentage is a function of how much value is placed on a position. GMs will draft more at those positions. Since there's a fixed number of starting spots you necessarily have a higher bust rate by this metric.

1 starting RB on each team so higher bust rates based on the starter criteria. 5 starting OL so lower bust rate based on starter criteria. However, not all starting OL are quality. Most starting RBs are. Very few quality starting DT's but most teams have two good WR's.

So the starter criteria is flawed, but the best we have to compile this type of data and start the conversation.

[sharpe1027]

1 starting RB on each team so higher bust rates based on the starter criteria. 5 starting OL so lower bust rate based on starter criteria. However, not all starting OL are quality. Most starting RBs are. Very few quality starting DT's but most teams have two good WR's.

So the starter criteria is flawed, but the best we have to compile this type of data and start the conversation.

Yeah. If the drafted roughly equal quantities as the available starting positions, the hit rates would be pretty similar. There's still issues with position differences in average length of careers, average time it takes time develop into a starter, etc.

[HarveyWallbangers]

A few definites from our Round one pick


GUTE will take somebody nobody initially likes. Then over time everybody who detested the pick will start talking themselves into the pick as being solid after drinking the homer juice.
I will be the second last one to give in, right ahead of Wist. It's partly due to my ongoing rage from back when TT shit on himself and passed on TJ WATT.

Is this really the case? He's had four 1st round picks, and I really liked two of them (Jaire and Savage).

[Bretsky]

Is this really the case? He's had four 1st round picks, and I really liked two of them (Jaire and Savage).

well truth be told I really liked Savage and was ok with Jaire as well. I'm just mentally preparing myself :))

[wist43]

Is this really the case? He's had four 1st round picks, and I really liked two of them (Jaire and Savage).

Gute really put himself behind the 8 ball with last year's draft.

With a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks to flesh out a contending roster - Gute came away with one viable player, AJ Dillon.

Last year's draft was inexcusable.

That said, 2019 was a very good draft IMO. Gary is progressing, Savage is a good player, and Jenkins is already one of the best Guards in the league. I liked his first draft as well.

Combine that with making some good FA moves, i.e. the Smith brothers and Amos, and I think there is much more good than bad; BUT, last years draft and the Oren Burks pick just blow my mind... seriously, WTF??

[HarveyWallbangers]

Gute really put himself behind the 8 ball with last year's draft.

With a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks to flesh out a contending roster - Gute came away with one viable player, AJ Dillon.

Last year's draft was inexcusable.

Unless Love turns out to be good.

[wist43]

Unless Love turns out to be good.

By the time we know that, how many years will that be without having a first round pick contributing on the field, and how many other QB's drafted since and later will be good??

QB is a crap shoot.

[RashanGary]

Rondale Moore is a good player. Short, but well built, fast, smart.... he’s kind of an ideal gadget player for Lafleur and Rodgers.