AJ Dillon injury

[Guiness]

Any news on the severity of Dillon's injury?

[Joemailman]

MLF doesn't talk about injuries much. Probably won't know much until after practice on Wednesday.

[Teamcheez1]

More importantly, what about Crosby?

[KYPack]

It's a quad injury.

There is some scuttlebut that it's minor.

Real info will come out as Joe says.

Mase? I dunno

[George Cumby]

Mase looked like he bruised/sprained his AC joint.

[QBME]

Mase looked like he bruised/sprained his AC joint.

Not being a wise ass, but the injury is to his non - kicking side shoulder?

I suppose total body balance is key to an NFL Place Kicker, but can't he just take a needle and get on with it?

[smuggler]

If anything, I would expect the left shoulder to be more important for a right-footed kicker. That's the arm that drives counter-balance to help generate the kicking force.

[Guiness]

More importantly, what about Crosby?

Forgot about Crosby's shoulder injury! Pretty bush to cream a kicker like that on a broken play. Crosby continued to handle kicking duties but his kick off seemed a little short, no touch backs in the 2nd half. Don't know if he was hurting or that was elements.

[texaspackerbacker]

He made a couple of kicks and kicked it off out of the end zone, I think, after the injury. The problem, as I see it, would be if coverage fell apart on a kick off, and the old guy needed to make a tackle.

[RashanGary]

Doesnt hurt us at all. Williams and Jones are fresh. Two games left with a bye and 8 days rest this week. As long as it's not severe, all that matters is that his young career doesn't get derailed with a bad offseason.

[texaspackerbacker]

For being such a big guy, Dillon seems kinda fragile. If the money was the same, I'd take Jamal Williams over him - but of course, it isn't. Neither or even both of them is adequate to replace Aaron Jones.

[RashanGary]

I like him long term. This year he's a rookie and rookies suck

[Bretsky]

I like him long term. This year he's a rookie and rookies suck



Long term IMO Dillon is going be be really really good; him and Jones are a wonderful combo

[run pMc]

Quad injury, sound like MLF is cautiously optimistic he'll play. They'll know more on Wed and probably bring him along carefully.
I doubt he's fragile; he basically WAS the Boston College offense.
I'm a little wary of calling him fragile or injury-prone just yet --- you don't log almost 850 rushes in 3 years into mostly loaded boxes by being fragile.

[Tony Oday]

Long term IMO Dillon is going be be really really good; him and Jones are a wonderful combo

Too bad Jones is gone after this year.

[Fosco33]

Long term IMO Dillon is going be be really really good; him and Jones are a wonderful combo

I know you love Jones. But we’ve had success w/ young/cheap backs for years. There are only a few elite/highly paid RBs.

As much as I’d love to see Jones next year - I’m wondering how much it’s Jones vs OL/Scheme. Hope he lands in AFC either way.

Williams/Dillon is still a scary good backfield.

[call_me_ishmael]

Denver always had great backs and a solid running game. Niners continue to just plug in guys with great success. Monstert was a career journey man. I agree Jones is very good but I doubt he is worth the fat paycheck given the economic realties of the game.

[Upnorth]

Shanahan always had success with his backs. Why would it be different for Lafluer. Plus look at our oline and qb

[texaspackerbacker]

For the umpteenth time, Aaron Jones damn well better not be gone after this year, and Jamal Williams and Dillon without Jones would be basically mediocre. Our O Line is what it is/has had the success it has had mostly because of the excellence of Aaron - both of them.

[run pMc]

Denver always had great backs and a solid running game. Niners continue to just plug in guys with great success. Monstert was a career journey man. I agree Jones is very good but I doubt he is worth the fat paycheck given the economic realties of the game.

Agree.

I think Jones is an important part of the offense and a playmaker, but I don't think he's irreplacable.
Signing a RB to a huge 2nd contract is highly questionable. Jones is on a pitch count, it's not like he's Derrick Henry or Zeke; I have trouble paying $15M for that player.
If Jones walks, they will need a speed back. Williams is also a FA and is solid. Dillon can be good in a committee. I just think they need a shiftier back than those two.

There is mutual interest to get a deal done, so who knows.

[texaspackerbacker]

Backload the contract and keep him - and Williams and Linsley and anybody else that needs to be re-signed. It CAN be done.

[KYPack]

Backload the contract and keep him - and Williams and Linsley and anybody else that needs to be re-signed. It CAN be done.

Backloading contracts does NOT work. That's funny money. The player and the agents analyze the contracts by their real worth and value.

Dillon practiced today and the coach is optimistic he will play on Sunday. The extra day may have helped Fritz!

[Fosco33]

We made him an offer yesterday but he declined.

[Vincenzo]

“ Packers head coach Matt LaFleur said running back would do some work in the club’s first practice for the NFC Championship Game. As it turns out, the rookie running back was one of several limited players on the injury report.”

[KYPack]

We made him an offer yesterday but he declined.

Who, Jones?

[Joemailman]

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2021/01/20/report-packers-offered-aaron-jones-top-five-rb-money/


According to ESPN’s Rob Demovsky, the Packers offered Jones a contract extension that would have made him among the top-five highest-paid running backs in the NFL on an average annual basis.

By that metric, the contract would have given Jones an average of at least $12.5 million per season, per OverTheCap.

Jones’ representation ultimately declined Green Bay’s offer because “big guaranteed money” was missing, according to Demovsky. Subsequently, Jones parted ways with his former agent and has since hired Drew Rosenhaus.

[Bretsky]

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2021/01/20/report-packers-offered-aaron-jones-top-five-rb-money/


I read this and it was disappointing

But buried in the article was the reason I think AJO turned it down.............lack of guaranteed money. The websites project him to get about 14MIL/year. I love the guy but if he's asking for that I'm not sure I can get behind it. Then again, I'm not paying Back 22 MIL/Year either if it was my call. Some of the RB's got 30 MIL guaranteed money; GB sounds like they wanted to keep that down as they still want to sign others.

[Freak Out]

Jones is such a hard runner who never gives up. I have lost track of times he's pulled off some crazy spin move to keep moving forward in heavy traffic. If the guy wins GB the next two games give him some money.

[Fosco33]

Yeah KY -meant the article not the offer.

GB has so many needs and only being able to retain a handful of rich contracts - something has to give. Likely good players - Jones, Linsley, etc.

[Joemailman]

Backloading contracts does NOT work. That's funny money. The player and the agents analyze the contracts by their real worth and value.



You can do it a little bit. Kenny Clark's cap hit is about 6M in 2020.About 7M in 2021. After that it's over 20M. Rodgers will go from 21M in 2020 to 37M in 2021. But if you overdo it you end up like the Saints who have 13 guys who will have a cap hit over 10M in 2021.

[sharpe1027]

You can't really cook the books with guaranteed money. Backloading can be okay if you can cut ties before the big payouts hit. Seems to be the sticking point here.

[KYPack]

You can do it a little bit. Kenny Clark's cap hit is about 6M in 2020.About 7M in 2021. After that it's over 20M. Rodgers will go from 21M in 2020 to 37M in 2021. But if you overdo it you end up like the Saints who have 13 guys who will have a cap hit over 10M in 2021.

Sure, you have to shuffle the contract amounts around to fit the teams cap strategy. Take Clark's contract. His overall deal is worth 70 mil. Half of that is guaranteed. And the cap hits for the next two seasons are smaller. After those two years, the "funny money" portion of the deal kicks in. If this deal is allowed to ride to maturity, Clark will no longer be on the roster in the 2023 season. Many things can take place prior to that season.

In Jones case, the Pack offered AJ a "back loaded" deal. He rejected it. The true value of a long term deal is the guaranteed money. The plan the FO offered Jones was light in the guaranteed portion. You can hardly blame Jones for turning it down.

[Fritz]

I really don't blame any of these guys for turning down contracts. Well, maybe some of the elite QB's who see the contract as somehow demonstrating the size of their dick. I mean,couldn't Rodgers get by on a couple mill less a year? But most of these guys, they get one or two contracts, and it's a dog-eat-dog world. One injury, one play, and it's all over. It's not the like NFL has ever taken care of its players from the past or anything. The players are meat to them. So I don't blame Jones.

I do think the guy really wants to be in GB. I hope they get something done for him and for Linsley. I'd hate to have to choose between them.

[sharpe1027]

Fritz, yep. I don't blame someone for playing by the rules and getting the best deal they can for themselves. Sometimes, the best deal is the one with the most $, sometimes other factors are very important.

The reality is that Jones can likely make more money with another team. If that's more important to him, the Packers will never sign him. I don't blame either party.

[texaspackerbacker]

Backloading contracts does NOT work. That's funny money. The player and the agents analyze the contracts by their real worth and value.

Dillon practiced today and the coach is optimistic he will play on Sunday. The extra day may have helped Fritz!

It absolutely DOES work - anytime, but especially in this unique time when the salary cap is going down. The smart teams will do this; Hopefully the Packers are one of those. The players get paid big when the salary cap bounces back, and you know it's gonna go back up a helluva lot more than it goes down because of this supposed crisis. Players will do this because they recognize their real value, yes, but it is their real value compared to everybody else, and they're all in the same boat, cap-wise. Players also, in most cases anyway, want to keep a winning team together, and they value that above anything else. Maybe an agent thinks otherwise, but he is nothing more than an employee of the player.

[KYPack]

The Pack made the back load offer. Jones turned it down. Now that he is represented by Rosenhaus, there is NO way they will take an offer that is light on guaranteed money. Back loading is a club in the bag, but can't be the whole strategy.

[bobblehead]

Bottom line is this. Ride him hard the next 2 games. Win an owl. Throw him a party and wish him well. Let him get paid. Good for him. He played his rookie deal without holding out so he deserves to hit FA. But we don't have the space, nor should we pay a RB that kind of money.

[texaspackerbacker]

The Pack made the back load offer. Jones turned it down. Now that he is represented by Rosenhaus, there is NO way they will take an offer that is light on guaranteed money. Back loading is a club in the bag, but can't be the whole strategy.

I read 3 articles about Jones turning down the offer. There was not a word about back loading or terms other than to say the issue was guaranteed money. Guaranteed money is not inconsistent with back loading. In fact, the primary way to keep the cap number low in the short term is with a big bonus. The articles said the talks were ongoing. I'd say there is still plenty of reasons for optimism.

[smuggler]

Guaranteeing the money means it no longer matters where the money is in the contract because you're 100% going to pat it. If you're backloading contacts because to don't have near-term cap space, then that's fine. If you're like the Iggles and you're backloading because you don't ever intend to pay the last two years, then guaranteed money 100% matters. But then, for some players, the AAV is about reapect and status more than it is about actual compensation. In AJo's case, he's interested in actually being paid as much as possible. So he may not care if the AAV is top-5 as long as the guaranteed money is nice enough. The question is this: If you sign AJo to a 5-year deal, are you okay if the team pays the whole thing. If you say yes, know that your answer in 5 years will most likely be different.

[texaspackerbacker]

Example: $100 million for 5 years - $35m bonus, salary of $2m, 13m, 15m, 17m, 19m in years 2-5. That would be $9 million against the cap the first year and 20, 22, 24, and 26 in years 2-5. This is not an example of what smuggler was talking about with the Eagles. It's something that ought to be acceptable to the player, and it certainly works for the team, given the unique cap situation.

[GB-Brandon]

LOL!!!! And I’m the Insane one!!!!!

[Upnorth]

Example: $100 million for 5 years - $35m bonus, salary of $2m, 13m, 15m, 17m, 19m in years 2-5. That would be $9 million against the cap the first year and 20, 22, 24, and 26 in years 2-5. This is not an example of what smuggler was talking about with the Eagles. It's something that ought to be acceptable to the player, and it certainly works for the team, given the unique cap situation.

You are just using this as an example. Not advocating for this contract right? Because 20 mill aav for a rb is insane.

[GB-Brandon]

Guaranteeing the money means it no longer matters where the money is in the contract because you're 100% going to pat it. If you're backloading contacts because to don't have near-term cap space, then that's fine. If you're like the Iggles and you're backloading because you don't ever intend to pay the last two years, then guaranteed money 100% matters. But then, for some players, the AAV is about reapect and status more than it is about actual compensation. In AJo's case, he's interested in actually being paid as much as possible. So he may not care if the AAV is top-5 as long as the guaranteed money is nice enough. The question is this: If you sign AJo to a 5-year deal, are you okay if the team pays the whole thing. If you say yes, know that your answer in 5 years will most likely be different.

Probably in even 3 years. Great Kid. Let someone else be the victim of the “Over-Pay.”

[sharpe1027]

Example: $100 million for 5 years - $35m bonus, salary of $2m, 13m, 15m, 17m, 19m in years 2-5. That would be $9 million against the cap the first year and 20, 22, 24, and 26 in years 2-5. This is not an example of what smuggler was talking about with the Eagles. It's something that ought to be acceptable to the player, and it certainly works for the team, given the unique cap situation.

This could be exactly what they offered in terms of structure. It's a negotiation, and regardless of structure, there's a point at which it no longer makes sense for the team. In almost every case, a player can make more on the open market. It only takes one team to put a higher value on the player.

Maybe I'm missing your point, but you can't sign everyone in every situation.

[George Cumby]

^ Like Kentucky says: "You can't keep them all."

[Joemailman]

With the Packers probably having extra comp picks in the 4th, 5th and 6th rounds, it seems like the perfect year for the Packers to use a mid round pick to draft Jones' replacement. Don't forget, Jones was a 5th round pick.

Maybe someone like Trey Sermon of Ohio St.


Ohio State running back Trey Sermon is one of the hottest running back prospects in football on the heels of an offensive explosion amid the Ohio State Buckeyes’ run to the National Championship game. Sermon wrangled the primary ball-carrier duties after splitting the load for much of the season with Master Teague III and has made the most of his opportunities; shredding two high-profile defenses in high-profile games. Sermon’s skill set and production will be the latest argument against drafting running backs high in the draft—Sermon is expected to be a mid-round prospect thanks to some inefficiencies and a lack of production on third downs; but on a team that runs inside and split zone with success, Sermon can be super productive (just as he was in such concepts for the Buckeyes down the stretch). Sermon has the physicality, contact balance, ball security, and toughness to be an early-down back and shoulder the majority of the load for an NFL team—he’ll be an economic option for zone-based teams looking to boost their ground game and add some toughness into the mix. As an added bonus, between his tenure at Oklahoma and his one season at Ohio State, Sermon has not logged 200-plus carries in a single season; there’s reason to believe that there should be plenty of life left in his legs for a significant long-term return on investment.

Ideal Role: Early-down starting running back in communal stable.

Scheme Fit: Split/inside zone heavy rushing attack.

[Fritz]

Easy, Joe. That post there, it sounds like you're . . . Sermonizing.

[Joemailman]

Easy, Joe. That post there, it sounds like you're . . . Sermonizing.

Hard to come up with a good Sermon these days.

[texaspackerbacker]

You are just using this as an example. Not advocating for this contract right? Because 20 mill aav for a rb is insane.

True, it's a little bit high, although it isn't that far off. Even at that amount, it wouldn't hurt the cap, and the cap would bounce back by the time it did. Jones is only 26, and barring a freak injury, he should still be about as good in 5 years.

And yes, you can sign 'em all.

[Bossman641]

You can cook the cap a year or two but eventually you have to bite the bullet. Jones is looking for GUARANTEED money, not just a high dollar contract with voided years at the end so that Rosenhaus can say he negotiated a big contract. I'd absolutely love to keep Jones but can't blame either party for moving on.

[GB-Brandon]

I’m really not sure Sermon is the best option moving forward but that of course can be discussed later.

[RashanGary]

I’m really not sure Sermon is the best option moving forward but that of course can be discussed later.

You truly have no clue and your guess is as good as any of ours.

[KYPack]

Example: $100 million for 5 years - $35m bonus, salary of $2m, 13m, 15m, 17m, 19m in years 2-5. That would be $9 million against the cap the first year and 20, 22, 24, and 26 in years 2-5. This is not an example of what smuggler was talking about with the Eagles. It's something that ought to be acceptable to the player, and it certainly works for the team, given the unique cap situation.

Tex, you are a good Packer fan. But your example here is insane. You know how to amortize the signing bonus, that's fine. No team is going to offer a running back a 100 million package with a 35 million guaranteed.. We will be over the cap by a significant amount when the 21 cap goes into effect. We will have to create cap space, not make a bigger deficit. Jones will, unfortunately, be gone.


You can't cook the cap, not that you hypothesis is an example of that. Tank thinks you can cook the cap, but he is a fool. You have to manage the cap. We will get bit in the butt by the cap, but Goot and Ball will have a plan to get us thru this.

In that process, the Pack will lose some excellent football players.


That's reality

[sharpe1027]

True, it's a little bit high, although it isn't that far off. Even at that amount, it wouldn't hurt the cap, and the cap would bounce back by the time it did. Jones is only 26, and barring a freak injury, he should still be about as good in 5 years.

And yes, you can sign 'em all.

You can't know that. You don't know what each player is asking.

Even if they were able to do so, it means less money for free agents. If you tie up a lot of money in a player, you lose out on other opportunities.

[GB-Brandon]

You truly have no clue and your guess is as good as any of ours.

Actually, I’m pretty certain!!! There are “Better Options” all the way around!!

Maybe you should catch up! I can’t slow down for you.

[GB-Brandon]

Were at Risk of even losing Williams too. His market value is higher then what some estimate on here. We’ll see on that.

[Joemailman]

You can sign 'em all. For a while. Saints did that. But now they're going to have to dismantle that team.

[GB-Brandon]

Jones shouldn’t even be a discussion anymore and a “Maybe” on Williams at around 8 per.

That’s the real deal.

[GB-Brandon]

Ted Thompson broke the bank drafting these kids in his last draft.

[GB-Brandon]

They said AJ was too small and did it at against lesser competition!!

They said Jamal wasn’t athletic and fast enough and didn’t have good vision!!

LOL!!

[GB-Brandon]

Gute has to make it work with “His Guys” at some point. This will be his 4th draft & offseason coming up!!! He drafted Dillon in the second round last year. It’s simple math guys.

There are FA options & draft options at RB that I like that will serve the purpose. I’m sure the Packer front office is on top of it!!

It is my belief that we should keep the OL intact(Linsley) and keep opening up holes and running lanes. We’ll be okay at RB!!!!

[Joemailman]

Jones shouldn’t even be a discussion anymore and a “Maybe” on Williams at around 8 per.

That’s the real deal.

8 per year for Williams would put him in he top 10 salaries for RB's. https://overthecap.com/position/running-back/ I doubt he'll command that kind of money, especially in a year where the salary cap is going down. Probably 4-5 would be more like it.

[RashanGary]

8 per year for Williams would put him in he top 10 salaries for RB's. https://overthecap.com/position/running-back/ I doubt he'll command that kind of money, especially in a year where the salary cap is going down. Probably 4-5 would be more like it.

Yep

[sharpe1027]

You can sign 'em all. For a while. Saints did that. But now they're going to have to dismantle that team.

No, they really didn't. 2019 lost Mark Ingram and Alex Okafor. 2020 they lost Vonn Bell and AJ Klein.

Now, I agree they focused in resigning a lot of their own FAs. But to pretend like all you need to do is wave a magic wand and you can sign everyone is Harry Potter level fantasy.

[run pMc]

You absolutely cannot keep them all. Successful teams that go deep into the playoffs will lose more players -- good players -- than other teams.
The buyers will almost certainly overpay -- that's the nature of FA.

I like Jones, but long ago I came to peace with the idea that they can and likely will move on from him. They have to free up cap space as it is, and I don't see how you can fit him without losing a LOT of other players. Plus we know RBs don't last and replacements are easier to find than many other positions.

If they are going to cook the cap, I'd rather it be to keep Devante Adams after next season. They can get by with Dillon and whoever else they draft/sign at RB.

[GB-Brandon]

8 per year for Williams would put him in he top 10 salaries for RB's. https://overthecap.com/position/running-back/ I doubt he'll command that kind of money, especially in a year where the salary cap is going down. Probably 4-5 would be more like it.

I’ve been seeing 6-8 for what he can do. He can run, catch and block and is durable. He has developed himself nicely. I think your undervaluing him. He has kinda been this little secret because he gets overshadowed by Jones but I think you will be surprised what he commands.

He ranks out on PFF only 5 points behind Jones overall. A team is gonna pay him. He can be a no.1.

[GB-Brandon]

And if we win a Super Bowl you can basically add a little more to everyone’s “Expected Contract” cause that’s just how it Goes!

[GB-Brandon]

Take the Air Out Of The Balloon and come down to reality!!! I am far from the Insane one in here!!! Gute is gonna have to draft HIS OWN GUYS!!!!!

He is gonna have to get out of Fairy Tale land and put the RAS Charts down and get with it!!! He has a lot of work ahead of him.

[GB-Brandon]

Jamal Finishes runs too. He knows where that Fucken first down marker is!!!!

The guy is one of the funnest guys I’ve ever met!!

[QBME]

You absolutely cannot keep them all. Successful teams that go deep into the playoffs will lose more players -- good players -- than other teams.
The buyers will almost certainly overpay -- that's the nature of FA.

I like Jones, but long ago I came to peace with the idea that they can and likely will move on from him. They have to free up cap space as it is, and I don't see how you can fit him without losing a LOT of other players. Plus we know RBs don't last and replacements are easier to find than many other positions.

If they are going to cook the cap, I'd rather it be to keep Devante Adams after next season. They can get by with Dillon and whoever else they draft/sign at RB.

I don’t know shit, but this makes a whole lot of common sense to me.

[GB-Brandon]

I don’t know shit, but this makes a whole lot of common sense to me.

He is exactly right. Who overpays for RB’s? The Rams with Gurly? The Cowboys with Zeke? The Jets with Bell? Where has all the success come from this practice?

It’s stupid. I feel bad for them but RB’s are literally like bombs getting ready to go off. That’s how fast they can go down hill. I don’t think Gute should of even offered Jones what he did. And I am also not upset at Jones for declining the offer. It’s the only big contract he is probably ever gonna get so yeah, try to get the most. I get it.

I can understand why some fans are attached to Jones and hate to see him go but really it’s gonna be okay. Losing Adams would be ten times worse!! We might not be able to get another “Aaron Jones” but as long as we keep the OL intact we can get pretty close to that production with some good front office work. There are tons of studs coming out of college ready to run hard for a contract!!!

We’re really not gonna have a problem getting another RB and getting production from that position. It’s the least of my worries. And that’s not to take anything away from Aaron Jones!!!

[Bretsky]

Gute has to make it work with “His Guys” at some point. This will be his 4th draft & offseason coming up!!! He drafted Dillon in the second round last year. It’s simple math guys.

There are FA options & draft options at RB that I like that will serve the purpose. I’m sure the Packer front office is on top of it!!

It is my belief that we should keep the OL intact(Linsley) and keep opening up holes and running lanes. We’ll be okay at RB!!!!


The guys who will best serve the purpose are right here. Figure it out Gute and while you are at it draft a WR in round one :)

[GB-Brandon]

8 per year for Williams would put him in he top 10 salaries for RB's. https://overthecap.com/position/running-back/ I doubt he'll command that kind of money, especially in a year where the salary cap is going down. Probably 4-5 would be more like it.

A team like the Seahawks would pay Williams 6-8 per and they would run him till his legs fell off!! He’d be out of the league in two years!!

Believe That!!!

[Bretsky]

A team like the Seahawks would pay Williams 6-8 per and they would run him till his legs fell off!! He’d be out of the league in two years!!

Believe That!!!

Then let them, because he's not worth 6-8 Million/Year

[Fritz]

I am thinking Dillon won't get a lot of snaps on Sunday. Partly the injury, but also because in order to neutralize the inside pass rush, especially if TB is sending those very quick inside 'backers on pass rushes, you'd better have running backs who know the blocking schemes inside and out and can execute them. Williams is really good; Jones has gotten much better. Dillon's still a rook.

[bobblehead]

I’ve been seeing 6-8 for what he can do. He can run, catch and block and is durable. He has developed himself nicely. I think your undervaluing him. He has kinda been this little secret because he gets overshadowed by Jones but I think you will be surprised what he commands.

He ranks out on PFF only 5 points behind Jones overall. A team is gonna pay him. He can be a no.1.

That would be stupid to pay him. Latavius Murry makes 2.8 Million and I think Ty Montgomery makes 1 million. That is how you fill the RB room. There are a ton of Jamaal Williams out there. I would rather give Jones 12 million than Williams 6.

[KYPack]

I am thinking Dillon won't get a lot of snaps on Sunday. Partly the injury, but also because in order to neutralize the inside pass rush, especially if TB is sending those very quick inside 'backers on pass rushes, you'd better have running backs who know the blocking schemes inside and out and can execute them. Williams is really good; Jones has gotten much better. Dillon's still a rook.

Great observation Fritz. One of the striking things about the Tampa loss was the failure of GB's pass pro. On one blitz, I was shocked to see Devin White flat run over Williams. I'd think they will have Williams primed to get back at the Buc's ILB's for their earlier success on blitzes.

[Jaire]

Take the Air Out Of The Balloon and come down to reality!!! I am far from the Insane one in here!!! Gute is gonna have to draft HIS OWN GUYS!!!!!

He is gonna have to get out of Fairy Tale land and put the RAS Charts down and get with it!!! He has a lot of work ahead of him.

Jenkins, Jaire are all pro. Gary will be and maybe Savage. That's amazing drafting really, esp the Jaire pick. They ignored the noise and group think on Gary. TT's main fault imo was reaching for the next best: Perry, Datone Jones, Jerel Worthy -- all tail end of the tier. You have to review those drafts to see what was "passed up.." And many other years we just missed on the last of a tier. Gute is better at moving around the draft to get actual guys they want, absolutely necessary when you draft low. Only draft guys you like: that seems Gute's MO. You will still whiff but a lot less. Overall, I just see that Gute is drafting a lot better, more like TT in his 1st six years. Honestly the draft quality went down starting 2011 (still top ten in the league though). Partly too, I think that was TT, MM, and Capers living in the game of the past. Consider that from 2011 to 2017 they had only one great Round One pick: Gute is killing his drafts. In 13 years, TT has how many great first round picks? I count four. Gute has as maybe as many in just three years.

Gute is still very much of the TT and even Ron Wolf mold. And how many of "TT's guys" did Gute himself scout? He was TT's head scout several years.


The big signings the last two years were because of a depleted cupboard. It reveals several of TT's faults. Gute grabbed FAs because of years of failed drafts. It's one more year to really refill it. I don't expect much from FA til after draft when there will be a lot of guys on the market hoping for a big contract in a down cap year. He'll sign a few there.

I do think they let all the big names leave in FA. It's a loaded OT class, some say deepest ever, and Gute is very good at drafting linemen. Also we seem to have a really good line coach. We'll move on from Wagner who was a stop gap.

As to RB, they may re-sign Williams but the line is much more important. Go back and see how we neglected drafting line for four years. We've one more year to make up for that. We had a ton of holes when Gute took over.

Draft priorities (given what this draft offers): 2 tackles (we will lose 3 of this year's day one starting OL), 1-2 WRs (another DEEP draft here), CB ....... then whatever (it's a bad year for DL)

[Jaire]

And another thing. Very important difference with Gute.

If you are going to play draft and develop, you have to delve into FA. TT was committed against this (almost religiously as Brandt just noted yesterday) and it ruined the second half of his tenure. It was a good philosophy before other teams caught up to TT.

If you don't fill holes with FA, you cannot go BPA. Period. Starting maybe as early as 2011, GB started drafting need in the early rounds...... because they weren't filling holes with FAs.

Gute clearly is not doing that. The Gary pick is the most obvious sign. They did not need another OLB. He was BPA on their board (whether or not you agree with their scouting is another matter). They didn't heitate to take him. Which was great to see. Likewise with the manuevres in 2018. They were happy just to stay in that top tier and get an extra One the next year (a far far deeper class).

Gute will be fine (and my only problem with their drafting really is taking Dillon so high --- but that's just my evaluation of the position and player and we'll see how Dillon works out and I do get MLF's emphasis on the run game).

[Fritz]

And another thing. Very important difference with Gute.

If you are going to play draft and develop, you have to delve into FA. TT was committed against this (almost religiously as Brandt just noted yesterday) and it ruined the second half of his tenure. It was a good philosophy before other teams caught up to TT.

If you don't fill holes with FA, you cannot go BPA. Period. Starting maybe as early as 2011, GB started drafting need in the early rounds...... because they weren't filling holes with FAs.

Gute clearly is not doing that. The Gary pick is the most obvious sign. They did not need another OLB. He was BPA on their board (whether or not you agree with their scouting is another matter). They didn't heitate to take him. Which was great to see. Likewise with the manuevres in 2018. They were happy just to stay in that top tier and get an extra One the next year (a far far deeper class).

Gute will be fine (and my only problem with their drafting really is taking Dillon so high --- but that's just my evaluation of the position and player and we'll see how Dillon works out and I do get MLF's emphasis on the run game).


It's a lot easier to believe that a draft pick really was just the best player available when you draft someone pretty high up (Dillon second round) when you already have two very good players in that position. I rarely bought it when a GM said that a player was just the BPS but just so happened to fill a team's most pressing need. Yeah, right. Sometimes, sure, but not ofte.

[GB-Brandon]

That would be stupid to pay him. Latavius Murry makes 2.8 Million and I think Ty Montgomery makes 1 million. That is how you fill the RB room. There are a ton of Jamaal Williams out there. I would rather give Jones 12 million than Williams 6.

Latavius Murray is one guy you can cherry pick that out performed his contract that he is under. Chris Carson and Kenyon Drake are both set to hit that 8 million mark which is where many feel Williams skills set and value is similar if he were to get the same opportunities.

The prices go up and not down!!! You should know this. Williams may not be flashy but he checks “All The Boxes” as I’ve posted. He has zero Red Flags.

[GB-Brandon]

That would be stupid to pay him. Latavius Murry makes 2.8 Million and I think Ty Montgomery makes 1 million. That is how you fill the RB room. There are a ton of Jamaal Williams out there. I would rather give Jones 12 million than Williams 6.

Your new name is “Master Cherry Picker”

All you do is run around and find one example to come up with these ridiculous narratives!!!

[GB-Brandon]

Personally. I’d rather pay Jamal over Chris Carson with Jamal having far less miles. Jamal has serious value!!!

You guys are the Fucken Insane ones!!!

[GB-Brandon]

Jenkins, Jaire are all pro. Gary will be and maybe Savage. That's amazing drafting really, esp the Jaire pick. They ignored the noise and group think on Gary. TT's main fault imo was reaching for the next best: Perry, Datone Jones, Jerel Worthy -- all tail end of the tier. You have to review those drafts to see what was "passed up.." And many other years we just missed on the last of a tier. Gute is better at moving around the draft to get actual guys they want, absolutely necessary when you draft low. Only draft guys you like: that seems Gute's MO. You will still whiff but a lot less. Overall, I just see that Gute is drafting a lot better, more like TT in his 1st six years. Honestly the draft quality went down starting 2011 (still top ten in the league though). Partly too, I think that was TT, MM, and Capers living in the game of the past. Consider that from 2011 to 2017 they had only one great Round One pick: Gute is killing his drafts. In 13 years, TT has how many great first round picks? I count four. Gute has as maybe as many in just three years.

Gute is still very much of the TT and even Ron Wolf mold. And how many of "TT's guys" did Gute himself scout? He was TT's head scout several years.


The big signings the last two years were because of a depleted cupboard. It reveals several of TT's faults. Gute grabbed FAs because of years of failed drafts. It's one more year to really refill it. I don't expect much from FA til after draft when there will be a lot of guys on the market hoping for a big contract in a down cap year. He'll sign a few there.

I do think they let all the big names leave in FA. It's a loaded OT class, some say deepest ever, and Gute is very good at drafting linemen. Also we seem to have a really good line coach. We'll move on from Wagner who was a stop gap.

As to RB, they may re-sign Williams but the line is much more important. Go back and see how we neglected drafting line for four years. We've one more year to make up for that. We had a ton of holes when Gute took over.

Draft priorities (given what this draft offers): 2 tackles (we will lose 3 of this year's day one starting OL), 1-2 WRs (another DEEP draft here), CB ....... then whatever (it's a bad year for DL)

Well see man. Until Gute adds the “The Missing Piece” to the offense I will have my reservations. We will have plenty of time to discuss that coming up.

I have my preliminary free agent and draft board ready.

[GB-Brandon]

It’s just so funny to me that people think the Packers are gonna sign all these guys. Decisions are gonna have to be made and probably already have been. If Gute really wanted some of these guys he needed to extend them earlier. It’s too late now!!!!

[texaspackerbacker]

I say again, the Packers certainly could sign all of them. Just the same, if the $6-8 million figure is accurate, it would be unwise to sign Williams.

[GB-Brandon]

I say again, the Packers certainly could sign all of them. Just the same, if the $6-8 million figure is accurate, it would be unwise to sign Williams.

In our situation YES because we have Dillon. It would probably be most cost effective to sign Kenyon Drake(if he became available) if they decided to go FA route who could probably be as effective in this offense with our offensive line as Jones or at lest pretty damn close!!

Drake did a pretty good job behind a horrible Arizona offensive Line. The dude is explosive! Actually had him mocked to Packers few years back.

Drake/Dillon would be lethal!!! Re-sign Linsley and move forward!! Drake would have to make it to FA though and I’m not sure Zona will let that happen.

[GB-Brandon]

I say again, the Packers certainly could sign all of them. Just the same, if the $6-8 million figure is accurate, it would be unwise to sign Williams.

If Brian Gutekunst allocates that much $ to Jones and Williams and the RB position he should be committed immediately to nearest psych facility!!!

[Fritz]

I can see both sides or all sides of this one. As I think Bobble has pointed out, when you look at the last four or five big running back contracts signed, only Kamara (or is it Kamala? I get him mixed up with the VP) seems worth the green. The others are hurt and/or ineffective now, rather suddenly. Yet I think Jones is not that kind of player - he's gotten better and better at staying on the field, and runs hard as hell without getting hurt. He's a bigger better playmaker than I think many on here give him credit for - think of the years and years of mediocrity at running back for the Packers (I think Brandon Williams and Starks and Grant were all pretty mediocre, and Lacey pigged out after two good years). And he can block now, and he can catch the ball well. So those of you saying "yeah just draft his replacement in the fifth round" - i don't think it's that simple.

Yet I can also see that within the context of the cap, it might make more sense to sign Linsley than Jones. You have to have a good offensive line, period. Yet for all those saying Williams/Dillon could replace Jones (which I disagree with), you could argue that Patrick (who has been groomed to play center and got an extension before anyone thought he would) could take over for Linsley, and the beat could go on. Sure, Linsley is better than Patrick, but Jones is better than Williams/Dillon.

Glad I'm not the GM. But I think most here agree that King should be offered a one-year prove-it contract, and if he gets a better deal elsewhere, see ya. Draft his replacement this next draft. I'm sure Gute is kicking himself for whiffing on Josh Jackson. Wasted pick. Dude couldn't even play ST well enough to be made active the last few games. If Gute had hit on a corner instead of picking Jackson, King walking would not be an issue.

[Jaire]

...... Yet I think Jones is not that kind of player - he's gotten better and better at staying on the field, and runs hard as hell without getting hurt. He's a bigger better playmaker than I think many on here give him credit for - think of the years and years of mediocrity at running back for the Packers (I think Brandon Williams and Starks and Grant were all pretty mediocre, and Lacey pigged out after two good years). And he can block now, and he can catch the ball well. So those of you saying "yeah just draft his replacement in the fifth round" - i don't think it's that simple.....

.

I would agree. Except that for Mac, the running game was an afterthought. If he had it his way, he would not draft any rbs and never run the ball (and at times he did just that). He didn't even use Jones if you remember. They WILL restock that room for MLF.

If we lose both Jones and Jamaal, they will replace them. Not worried.

The line is far more important. Jenkins is the future, Runyan probably too. I look forward to see who they draft tbh. I think it will be heavy offense again. That seems the strength of the draft. And there should be lots of reasonably priced FAs after the draft. It will be a different off season for sure.

Lindsley, Jones, Jamaal, King, Mercedes (retires?): if we lose them all, I don't think we will drop off much. In fact we could improve even. The only irreplaceable one is Lewis.

They are already focused on re-siging Tonyan, probably Lazard too. I wouldn't even bet on Adams being back. It's a game of replacement. Those screaming for Gute to put his OWN team together are about to get their wish.

[Upnorth]

Need to try keep Lindsey.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Win the Super Bowl and Gute can overpay AJ—as far as I’m concerned. :)

[Jaire]

Are we really "worried" about replacing 2 rbs and a center. Those are the easiest spots to replace. They need an RT.

CB, OT, WR are much higher. (And DL just isn't there in the draft. Peronally I don't even want them drafting DT with the terrible history of failure there. Rent an FA til a good draft. That's how it's done in draft and develop.)

What is the future of the team? Bakh, Jenkins, Tonyan; Jaire, Savage, Clark, Gary. They have the primary pieces. That's where the money goes. None of the guys leaving are where you put the money. The biggest missing piece is WR. It's another good draft to get one. I have confidence next year's team will be better.

[RashanGary]

I would agree. Except that for Mac, the running game was an afterthought. If he had it his way, he would not draft any rbs and never run the ball (and at times he did just that). He didn't even use Jones if you remember. They WILL restock that room for MLF.

If we lose both Jones and Jamaal, they will replace them. Not worried.

The line is far more important. Jenkins is the future, Runyan probably too. I look forward to see who they draft tbh. I think it will be heavy offense again. That seems the strength of the draft. And there should be lots of reasonably priced FAs after the draft. It will be a different off season for sure.

Lindsley, Jones, Jamaal, King, Mercedes (retires?): if we lose them all, I don't think we will drop off much. In fact we could improve even. The only irreplaceable one is Lewis.

They are already focused on re-siging Tonyan, probably Lazard too. I wouldn't even bet on Adams being back. It's a game of replacement. Those screaming for Gute to put his OWN team together are about to get their wish.

Well said. Fritz too. It is a game of replacing high priced guys. Tonyan and Lazard insure 12 has a couple guys he likes. Dillon makes the running back position look solid. After that, it's all up in the air. Did Bakh cost us Adams or can we keep both with the intent of letting Rodgers go after his contract or a last year trade. Third contracts are rare. We’ll see what happens.

Fritz too. A couple good posts here. Brandon, you're just too sure of yourself and wrong too often to get a lot of respect the times you're right. You were so wrong on the packers leagues best offense it's hard to take you seriously.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It wasn’t a matter of being wrong. It was being really frigging annoying while being so wrong.

[Bretsky]

That would be stupid to pay him. Latavius Murry makes 2.8 Million and I think Ty Montgomery makes 1 million. That is how you fill the RB room. There are a ton of Jamaal Williams out there. I would rather give Jones 12 million than Williams 6.


:bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap:

[falco]

It wasn’t a matter of being wrong. It was being really frigging annoying while being so wrong.

And then being completely unable to see it, admit it, or both. For better or worse, Wist chose to hide in shame when his obnoxious predictions blew up spectacularly.

[Bretsky]

Actually, I’m pretty certain!!! There are “Better Options” all the way around!!

Maybe you should catch up! I can’t slow down for you.



Who is the better option ? And please don't say Drake; you'd just sounds less reasonable if you said he was better than Jones

[Bretsky]

Yep

yup

4 for Williams would be fine

[GB-Brandon]

Who is the better option ? And please don't say Drake; you'd just sounds less reasonable if you said he was better than Jones

Drake is “Budget FA Option” compared to Jones and did not say it was the best option. It would be a sufficient option IMO. I will gladly lay out my draft prospect options as I did last year after we get through this run.

Trust me when I say we will be okay. The “Focus” this offseason needs to be on getting the “Missing Piece”. The running game will be fine unless Gute can’t hold his water!!!

[GB-Brandon]

yup

4 for Williams would be fine

Not happening. This isn’t the James Starks situation where we can throw the guys scraps. He is better.

[Bretsky]

Not happening. This isn’t the James Starks situation where we can throw the guys scraps. He is better.

OK, what was the most James Starks was every paid ??

[Bretsky]

Drake is “Budget FA Option” compared to Jones and did not say it was the best option. It would be a sufficient option IMO. I will gladly lay out my draft prospect options as I did last year after we get through this run.

Trust me when I say we will be okay. The “Focus” this offseason needs to be on getting the “Missing Piece”. The running game will be fine unless Gute can’t hold his water!!!

'Honestly, I, like you, thought the focus of last season was getting the "Missing Piece"

[GB-Brandon]

OK, what was the most James Starks was every paid ??

3 mill per in 2016 but that was 4 years ago. Times have changed.

[GB-Brandon]

'Honestly, I, like you, thought the focus of last season was getting the "Missing Piece"

And we didn’t get the “Missing Piece” so hopefully this year it will be ranked as a higher concern/need!

[Bretsky]

And we didn’t get the “Missing Piece” so hopefully this year it will be ranked as a higher concern/need!

I don't have the faith you do

I think we may need another CB, and ILB and a RT as well.

[texaspackerbacker]

I can see both sides or all sides of this one. As I think Bobble has pointed out, when you look at the last four or five big running back contracts signed, only Kamara (or is it Kamala? I get him mixed up with the VP) seems worth the green. The others are hurt and/or ineffective now, rather suddenly. Yet I think Jones is not that kind of player - he's gotten better and better at staying on the field, and runs hard as hell without getting hurt. He's a bigger better playmaker than I think many on here give him credit for - think of the years and years of mediocrity at running back for the Packers (I think Brandon Williams and Starks and Grant were all pretty mediocre, and Lacey pigged out after two good years). And he can block now, and he can catch the ball well. So those of you saying "yeah just draft his replacement in the fifth round" - i don't think it's that simple.

Yet I can also see that within the context of the cap, it might make more sense to sign Linsley than Jones. You have to have a good offensive line, period. Yet for all those saying Williams/Dillon could replace Jones (which I disagree with), you could argue that Patrick (who has been groomed to play center and got an extension before anyone thought he would) could take over for Linsley, and the beat could go on. Sure, Linsley is better than Patrick, but Jones is better than Williams/Dillon.

Glad I'm not the GM. But I think most here agree that King should be offered a one-year prove-it contract, and if he gets a better deal elsewhere, see ya. Draft his replacement this next draft. I'm sure Gute is kicking himself for whiffing on Josh Jackson. Wasted pick. Dude couldn't even play ST well enough to be made active the last few games. If Gute had hit on a corner instead of picking Jackson, King walking would not be an issue.

As good as Kamara is (a helluva lot better than the similar name you talked about), Jones is better, a lot better IMO.

As much as I like Linsley (and woulda signed him in a heartbeat over Bakhtiari), he is absolutely not the priority Jones is. We would be little or no worse without Linsley, similar to losing Bakhtiari. Without Jones, though, we would be a LOT worse - more than anybody other than Rodgers himself. I'd put Davante up there too except the team did ok even without him.

Signing King to a one year deal if it was for any significant money at all, as it would probably need to be, would be the worst way to go - a cap it the face value of the contract. Josh Jackson probably will end up as a wasted pick, but I really don't think he has performed any worse than King when he has had to start for King. There's always gonna be some hits and some misses. Jaire and Jackson? I'd say one out of two ain't bad. On draft day, I woulda predicted it would be the other way around with those two. I suspect attitude and being pissed off at not playing more is part of Jackson's problem. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go elsewhere and maybe not be an all-pro, but at least a solid starter.

[Jaire]

And we didn’t get the “Missing Piece” so hopefully this year it will be ranked as a higher concern/need!

They don't draft need like they used to and that's a relief for me. I was disappointed as most with not getting a WR last year but they have targeted THEIR guys and they won't draft most receivers (not in rounds 1 to 3). That's just how they role and it has worked out well in the past. They are picky about who they take. And that's a good thing. It could be much worse: we could have the Ravens' FO drafting our receivers.

Anyways. They will take 1 or 2 most likely next year. R-E-L-A-X. Much easier than drafting anything on D for this FO.

[GB-Brandon]

They don't draft need like they used to and that's a relief for me. I was disappointed as most with not getting a WR last year but they have targeted THEIR guys and they won't draft most receivers (not in rounds 1 to 3). That's just how they role and it has worked out well in the past. They are picky about who they take. And that's a good thing. It could be much worse: we could have the Ravens' FO drafting our receivers.

Anyways. They will take 1 or 2 most likely next year. R-E-L-A-X. Much easier than drafting anything on D for this FO.

I am “RELAXED.” They have to draft a Fucken receiver if they don’t do something in free agency. They have nobody signed past 2021. And even if they get one in FA they will still draft one if they are true to their word in the context of a “Draft & Develop Organization.” They have to keep the rotation going. They simply can’t put it off any longer!!!

I just think it’s hilarious some people want to spend over 100 million on RB’s but almost have a stroke when I mention getting the “Missing Piece”!!!!!!

[Jaire]

But they are missing a DT.

And they have plugging temporary filler in the hole at missing RT for a year now.

So no. I don't think they are missing a WR until they haven't drafted one in 2021. They are definitely behind but not as bad as the trenches. They still haven't teplaced Bulaga and according to my watch he left a year ago.

[RashanGary]

yup

4 for Williams would be fine

4 for Williams would be kind of ideal. 6 is the max.

[GB-Brandon]

But they are missing a DT.

And they have plugging temporary filler in the hole at missing RT for a year now.

So no. I don't think they are missing a WR until they haven't drafted one in 2021. They are definitely behind but not as bad as the trenches. They still haven't teplaced Bulaga and according to my watch he left a year ago.

If you saw my “Way To Early Mock” I have them going DT in 1st and trading up for WR in 2nd and Packers are great at finding OL in mid rounds so as you like to say “R-E-L-A-X”

[GB-Brandon]

But they are missing a DT.

And they have plugging temporary filler in the hole at missing RT for a year now.

So no. I don't think they are missing a WR until they haven't drafted one in 2021. They are definitely behind but not as bad as the trenches. They still haven't teplaced Bulaga and according to my watch he left a year ago.

Okay Fine, I’ve posted it once and since you won’t stop this is who “They Should Be Targeting” in 1st round. Total Stud!!! Watched him all season. He was actually recruited to Bama so he is SEC vetted and talented. Hope he can make it to us in short handed DL draft. He would solve the problems lined up next to KC!!!!


https://youtu.be/eGmciQEVQmA

[GB-Brandon]

So Yes, we have to get the “Missing Piece” on defense and on Offense!!

[Fritz]

Cripes, they're about to play for a spot in the Superb Owl, and you guys are already ruminating about the draft.

Enjoy the game, fellas.

[sharpe1027]

I say again, the Packers certainly could sign all of them. Just the same, if the $6-8 million figure is accurate, it would be unwise to sign Williams.

You can't know that. You don't know what each player is asking.