Official Packers at Buccaneers NFC Championship Game Thread

[GB-Brandon]

Considering none of us suited up for the game, drafted any of the players or made any in-game decisions, it's not clear to me why we should be blaming ourselves.

But ok.

Im speaking in the sense of people blaming the reffs etc etc. Your taking it out of context!

The bottom line is Mark Murphy and Gute and the Packer front office failed us. Everyone should be lighting up their phone lines tomorrow morning!!!

We need to demand change NOW!!!

[GB-Brandon]

It’s time for “Action”

[MadtownPacker]

Yeah some action is likely needed.

[RashanGary]

Yeah some action is likely needed.

:lol:

Not me this time!

[QBME]

Im speaking in the sense of people blaming the reffs etc etc. Your taking it out of context!

The bottom line is Mark Murphy and Gute and the Packer front office failed us. Everyone should be lighting up their phone lines tomorrow morning!!!

We need to demand change NOW!!!

Wow, just.....wow.

Comedy or tragedy?

[StPaulPackFan]

The bottom line is Mark Murphy and Gute and the Packer front office failed us. Everyone should be lighting up their phone lines tomorrow morning!!!

We need to demand change NOW!!!

You could just become a Chiefs fan. You would probably have less stress in your life :-)

[GB-Brandon]

You could just become a Chiefs fan. You would probably have less stress in your life :-)

Actually that’s boiling my blood even more. My wife is from Kansas City and her family has a little rivalry with me and they have been rubbing it in good and memes etc etc. This is just a disaster!!!

[GB-Brandon]

You could just become a Chiefs fan. You would probably have less stress in your life :-)

Oh yeah, I also had a future play on the Bills!!

[GB-Brandon]

Wow, just.....wow.

Comedy or tragedy?


https://youtu.be/AS9j_-mqSWc

[call_me_ishmael]

Tough way to go out. This was a special team. This one is a gut punch like the Seattle disaster. These ones take a long time to get over. Special group that will lose a lot of core pieces next year.

I predict Coach consults his friend Bob Salad and asks who should be the DC.

Kevin King is a net negative.

Anyone that says this is a disaster or the team's season was a disaster knows nothing. Only one team wins it all, and the Packers played a more talented team today and did pretty darn well.

[StPaulPackFan]

Actually that’s boiling my blood even more. My wife is from Kansas City and her family has a little rivalry with me and they have been rubbing it in good and memes etc etc. This is just a disaster!!!

My boss is a Patriots fan so he was right there to needle me after the game. He told me all week that TB wouldn't lose to GB. But I did remind him that TB had a 73.9 QBR and that he didn't play for the Pats anymore. So that fun 😁

The bottom line is it's just a game and them losing doesn't really change my life one bit.

[GB-Brandon]

My boss is a Patriots fan so he was right there to needle me after the game. He told me all week that TB wouldn't lose to GB. But I did remind him that TB had a 73.9 QBR and that he didn't play for the Pats anymore. So that fun ��

The bottom line is it's just a game and them losing doesn't really change my life one bit.

Well yeah, I’m pretty close to it. But with the Packers you get pretty conditioned for this type of stuff.

[scharpcheddar]

Arians 4
Rodgers 0

[Zool]

Arians 4
Rodgers 0

Didn't you also say the host team never plays in the Super Bowl?

[RashanGary]

Didn't you also say the host team never plays in the Super Bowl?

:lol:

First thing I thought of after the game. I truly believe it's rigged based on how blatant the refs are but I never know how until after

[Joemailman]

I don't buy the notion that the league fixes games. But I have to say that this game will add fuel to the fire of those that do.

[sharpe1027]

:lol:

First thing I thought of after the game. I truly believe it's rigged based on how blatant the refs are but I never know how until after

There's no way they keep something like that under wraps. Has even on disgruntled employee or ref so much as hinted something's not on the level? This is just your mind looking for patterns. It's possible but incredibly unlikely. Way more likely is the refs just swallowed their whistles for both sides. You can even tell they didn't want to throw the flag on the jersey grab at the end by the delay but it was so damn obvious.

I have no hope I am going to convince you with this post. I know conspiracies theories are nearly impossible to disprove. I just feel better having said my piece. Thanks for listening.

[call_me_ishmael]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMg7xNQHvBA

[GB-Brandon]

What the deal is every officiating crew has their own style of how they call a game. We ran into a crew that let the DB’s play hard at the 5 yard mark and hold a little. The Seahawks used to get away with the same thing all the time. The question should be? Why didn’t our coaches have our DB’s doing the same damn thing at the LOS in that 5 yard area? Our flag on us late in the game came way down field!!

Don’t hate the Player Hate the Game!!!

[George Cumby]

Didn't you also say the host team never plays in the Super Bowl?

37

[Zool]

37

What color of jersey matters most?

[scharpcheddar]

Didn't you also say the host team never plays in the Super Bowl?

I obviously didn't pick GB to win this game. Therefore I understood that stat didn't matter anymore.

[scharpcheddar]

There's no way they keep something like that under wraps. Has even on disgruntled employee or ref so much as hinted something's not on the level? This is just your mind looking for patterns. It's possible but incredibly unlikely. Way more likely is the refs just swallowed their whistles for both sides. You can even tell they didn't want to throw the flag on the jersey grab at the end by the delay but it was so damn obvious.

I have no hope I am going to convince you with this post. I know conspiracies theories are nearly impossible to disprove. I just feel better having said my piece. Thanks for listening.

Lololol such a tired old reasoning. What are they keeping under raps?
There's no secret. They tell you this is a presentation of the nfl, before every game. Presentation, not competition. They can have any outcome they want. It's not a crime.

People have believed the bible for hundreds of years , yet no one's in on that either.
You blatantly saw Rodgers not run it in and blatantly saw them not go for 6. Yet you still try to convince yourself those were simply botched natural decision. You saw the refs ignore everything and then blatantly make the one call to send Brady to another Bowl.
Of course you don't see how. You can't see the most obvious clues.

[sharpe1027]

Lololol such a tired old reasoning. What are they keeping under raps?
There's no secret. They tell you this is a presentation of the nfl, before every game. Presentation, not competition. They can have any outcome they want. It's not a crime.

People have believed the bible for hundreds of years , yet no one's in on that either.
You blatantly saw Rodgers not run it in and blatantly saw them not go for 6. Yet you still try to convince yourself those were simply botched natural decision. You saw the refs ignore everything and then blatantly make the one call to send Brady to another Bowl.
Of course you don't see how. You can't see the most obvious clues.
Looney tunes.

[sharpe1027]

Let me get this straight. Rodger's threw the game because the NFL asked him to do so? Absolutely bonkers.

[scharpcheddar]

Let me get this straight. Rodger's threw the game because the NFL asked him to do so? Absolutely bonkers.

You don't make millions unless you do exactly as told.
Lol like I said, you saw Rodgers do it..you saw the refs hand the game to Brady..and you still can't put two and two together

[scharpcheddar]

A majority in this nation believes their vote counts in elections and go around wearing cloth on their face thinking it protects from a virus because govt told them to. And you think a league can't decide the outcome of games and make it happen?

[MadtownPacker]

Edit the post from politics or I will have to and whatever comes with it.

[scharpcheddar]

Edit the post from politics or I will have to and whatever comes with it.

It's about psychology, not politics. Tv tells you what and how to think.

[Joemailman]

Edit the post from politics or I will have to and whatever comes with it.

:drma:

[Zool]

It's about psychology, not politics. Tv tells you what and how to think.

Kick his ass Seabass!

[sharpe1027]

You don't make millions unless you do exactly as told.
Lol like I said, you saw Rodgers do it..you saw the refs hand the game to Brady..and you still can't put two and two together

Cool story bro.

[George Cumby]

Edit the post from politics or I will have to and whatever comes with it.

IT! IS! TIME!

[sharpe1027]

It's about psychology, not politics. Tv tells you what and how to think.

Let me guess, you know this because you read about it on the internet? Or your buddy told you about it from his online research? Good thing you can be certain you aren't reading rantings from some 40 year old single dude living out of his mom's basement. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

You're embarrassing me with your facts and sound logic. I admit defeat. That being said, I prefer to live in my fantasy land, so please let me go on pretending. You can rest assured you got the better of me...this time. No need to take this any further.

Go Pack!

[Zool]

Let me guess, you know this because you read about it on the internet? Or your buddy told you about it from his online research? Good thing you can be certain you aren't reading rantings from some 40 year old single dude living out of his mom's basement. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

You're embarrassing me with your facts and sound logic. I admit defeat. That being said, I prefer to live in my fantasy land, so please let me go on pretending. You can rest assured you got the better of me...this time. No need to take this any further.

Go Pack!

Well it is against the law to lie on the internet.

[scharpcheddar]

Well it is against the law to lie on the internet.

It's against natural law to lie.
I didn't waste my time thinking Packers would win.
Just like clockwork, Rodgers came through again, on the short side.
But he has one SB to his credit at least.
Lol Brady throws three ints and they still win.
The refs eff you over right in your face. And you're still clueless.
Brady is doing it with smoke and mirrors and unicorn dust

[sharpe1027]

It's against natural law to lie.
I didn't waste my time thinking Packers would win.
Just like clockwork, Rodgers came through again, on the short side.
But he has one SB to his credit at least.
Lol Brady throws three ints and they still win.
The refs eff you over right in your face. And you're still clueless.
Brady is doing it with smoke and mirrors and unicorn dust

We get it. It's rigged. Why do you watch? Why do you post here?

[Upnorth]

It's against natural law to lie.
I didn't waste my time thinking Packers would win.
Just like clockwork, Rodgers came through again, on the short side.
But he has one SB to his credit at least.
Lol Brady throws three ints and they still win.
The refs eff you over right in your face. And you're still clueless.
Brady is doing it with smoke and mirrors and unicorn dust

If it is rigged why be a fan of a team?
If it is rigged then when did it start? 1919? 1950? 1980? 2010? Not asking you to say june 1st 1953 at 10am but the way I see it as the league has gotten more and more sucsessful plus having more agents who are fringe and have a higher reason to 'rat out ' the fix shouldn't the natural order be to a less rigged game every year? Is it player refs coaches gms owners? Or just players and refs? Too many possible sources of leakage so I don't think it can be choreographed.

By agents I don't mean actual agents. I mean those who would be involved in the fix. Once you are involved you become an agent if the fraud I mean.

[sharpe1027]

If it is rigged why be a fan of a team?
If it is rigged then when did it start? 1919? 1950? 1980? 2010? Not asking you to say june 1st 1953 at 10am but the way I see it as the league has gotten more and more sucsessful plus having more agents who are fringe and have a higher reason to 'rat out ' the fix shouldn't the natural order be to a less rigged game every year? Is it player refs coaches gms owners? Or just players and refs? Too many possible sources of leakage so I don't think it can be choreographed.

By agents I don't mean actual agents. I mean those who would be involved in the fix. Once you are involved you become an agent if the fraud I mean.

You generally can't reason with someone that's invested in a conspiracy. Similar principle to why people stay in cults way past the rationale point. They can't back down once they get in too far without eating a huge slice of humble pie.

Sometimes, however, you can piss them off enough so they go away and leave you alnoe.

[scharpcheddar]

We get it. It's rigged. Why do you watch? Why do you post here?

Why do people watch wwe and movies?
Outcome is already decided.
It's entertainment. I still like it for historical and aesthetic reasons.
My dad is from Wisconsin and went to first SB in LA, having already moved to Pasadena before it.
I have James Lofton and Barry Smith's autograph from Loftons rookie training camp year.Ezra Johnson, David Whitehurst Dad's from Random Lake.
Sports is entertainment
I'm a sports fan.

[scharpcheddar]

If it is rigged why be a fan of a team?
If it is rigged then when did it start? 1919? 1950? 1980? 2010? Not asking you to say june 1st 1953 at 10am but the way I see it as the league has gotten more and more sucsessful plus having more agents who are fringe and have a higher reason to 'rat out ' the fix shouldn't the natural order be to a less rigged game every year? Is it player refs coaches gms owners? Or just players and refs? Too many possible sources of leakage so I don't think it can be choreographed.

By agents I don't mean actual agents. I mean those who would be involved in the fix. Once you are involved you become an agent if the fraud I mean.

Pro sports leagues were founded by bookies,mafia and the Mason's.
Since day one it's just been that.
No one's hiding anything. There's no secret to be let out. They tell you time and again, it's entertainment. There's no legal issue. They can have any outcome they want.

[GB-Brandon]

Pro sports leagues were founded by bookies,mafia and the Mason's.
Since day one it's just been that.
No one's hiding anything. There's no secret to be let out. They tell you time and again, it's entertainment. There's no legal issue. They can have any outcome they want.

So who do we have to pay to beat Tampa?

[RashanGary]

It's against natural law to lie.
I didn't waste my time thinking Packers would win.
Just like clockwork, Rodgers came through again, on the short side.
But he has one SB to his credit at least.
Lol Brady throws three ints and they still win.
The refs eff you over right in your face. And you're still clueless.
Brady is doing it with smoke and mirrors and unicorn dust


You're making a lot of sense. It was a joke, like are a lot of games. And if letting a primarily man defense mug receivers all game wasn't bad enough, calling it the other way made it so much worse. A joke.

[GB-Brandon]

It’s just so comical. LOL. The excuses are endless!!! LOL!!

At least it wasn’t the “Massive Humidity Excuse” on 70 degree day! LOL!!

[sharpe1027]

Pro sports leagues were founded by bookies,mafia and the Mason's.
Since day one it's just been that.
No one's hiding anything. There's no secret to be let out. They tell you time and again, it's entertainment. There's no legal issue. They can have any outcome they want.

How does it work? Are NFL players required to agree before bthey are drafted? Do they get them all in a room and swear them to secrecy? Does it start in college? How do the administer the training program explaining how to script games so they still look realistic?

Enlighten me.

[sharpe1027]

Is there a single NFL player, referee, coach, front office person in the entire history of the NFL that has come out and explained how this non-secret works? Out of thousands of people over decades? Even one example?

[RashanGary]

Some of the refs are crooked.


Source: watching football with an open mind

[scharpcheddar]

How does it work? Are NFL players required to agree before bthey are drafted? Do they get them all in a room and swear them to secrecy? Does it start in college? How do the administer the training program explaining how to script games so they still look realistic?

Enlighten me.

Most players don't need to know anything. They just know play hard so you keep that paycheck. They sign non disclosure in their contracts.
I've already quoted Peter Gent who said rookies are told this is entertainment. Refs are instructed to lean games in a certain direction.
I'm sure the head officials are more savvy. I'm not going to ramble right now.
Ya know.. wisconsin needs a pro hockey team

[sharpe1027]

Some of the refs are crooked.


Source: watching football with an open mind

That's a whole lot more plausible than the whole thing is scripted including the players. What I saw in the game was the refs swallowing their whistles for both sides and one team using it more to their advantage. That tends to happen in every sport at every level. Conspiracy must be broader than you thought!

[sharpe1027]

Most players don't need to know anything. They just know play hard so you keep that paycheck. They sign non disclosure in their contracts.
I've already quoted Peter Gent who said rookies are told this is entertainment. Refs are instructed to lean games in a certain direction.
I'm sure the head officials are more savvy. I'm not going to ramble right now.
Ya know.. wisconsin needs a pro hockey team

So how does it work? Who is it that's picking individual players that they need to make this work? How do they first bring up the subject?

What type of nondisclosure agreement are you talking about? One that prevents them from blowing the whistle on fraud? Good luck enforcing that.

One person decides to blow the whistle and they could make a killing on the media cycle, book deals, you name it. Yet, it's never happened. Why, because it's pure fantasy.

I'm sure your a smart guy for the most part. I think your a moron on this point. Complete and utter stupidity.

[scharpcheddar]

So how does it work? Who is it that's picking individual players that they need to make this work? How do they first bring up the subject?

What type of nondisclosure agreement are you talking about? One that prevents them from blowing the whistle on fraud? Good luck enforcing that.

One person decides to blow the whistle and they could make a killing on the media cycle, book deals, you name it. Yet, it's never happened. Why, because it's pure fantasy.

I'm sure your a smart guy for the most part. I think your a moron on this point. Complete and utter stupidity.

Good luck inforcing that? What the fuck you think paying them is for?
Good luck enforcing that?
Didn't I already say...billions of dollars and lawyers and media in their pocket..vs dumb ass jock. Who wins? A guy complains and all players deny and media drags him through the mud. Propaganda.
Lol at calling me stupid because you're afraid of your childhood bubble being burst. The real world is not a two plus two world.
It's run by people who don't give a fuck if you die tomorrow.

[easy cheesy]

Jesus Christ! Blah... Blah... Blah... Sidebar...I'm so glad that Eli beat Tom twice... Eli Manning: "I may not always win Super Bowls but when I do, it's against Tom Brady"...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoBrfLX16a8

[sharpe1027]

Good luck inforcing that? What the fuck you think paying them is for?
Good luck enforcing that?
Didn't I already say...billions of dollars and lawyers and media in their pocket..vs dumb ass jock. Who wins? A guy complains and all players deny and media drags him through the mud. Propaganda.
Lol at calling me stupid because you're afraid of your childhood bubble being burst. The real world is not a two plus two world.
It's run by people who don't give a fuck if you die tomorrow.

You pick one little point and ignore the rest. Everyone's laughing at you and you think you are so much smarter than the rest of us.

Do you know any professional football players personally? They'd laugh you out of the room if you tried to convince them of your bullshit. You don't know squat.
Not a single player has ever complained. Not one. Not even close .You have zero proof. You can't even explain the basics of how this crazy conspiracy works. Just shut up already looney

[Zool]

You pick one little point and ignore the rest. Everyone's laughing at you and you think you are so much smarter than the rest of us.

Do you know any professional football players personally? They'd laugh you out of the room if you tried to convince them of your bullshit. You don't know squat.
Not a single player has ever complained. Not one. Not even close .You have zero proof. You can't even explain the basics of how this crazy conspiracy works. Just shut up already looney

What he's looking for is what you're giving him. If you stop feeding him, he will get bored eventually.

[SudsMcBucky]

Why do people watch wwe and movies?
Outcome is already decided.
It's entertainment. I still like it for historical and aesthetic reasons.
My dad is from Wisconsin and went to first SB in LA, having already moved to Pasadena before it.
I have James Lofton and Barry Smith's autograph from Loftons rookie training camp year.Ezra Johnson, David Whitehurst Dad's from Random Lake.
Sports is entertainment
I'm a sports fan.

Wait......what????? The wwe outcome is already decided? When did this happen?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Wait......what????? The wwe outcome is already decided? When did this happen?

Ever since the Montreal Screwjob. Upnorth may be stoic after each Pack playoff loss, but I could picture him being pissed beyond fuck after the infamous Screwjob.

Brett “The Hitman” Hart was Canada’s greatest athlete since Pamela Anderson.

[Upnorth]

I grew up watching stampede wrestling. The hit man. The British bulldogs. It was amazing wrestling.
Chris Jericho and ken shamrock trained there. It was golden.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I grew up watching stampede wrestling. The hit man. The British bulldogs. It was amazing wrestling.
Chris Jericho and ken shamrock trained there. It was golden.

I cheered like crazy when the Kid (later renamed 1-2-3 Kid by the Hitman) first defeated Razor Ramon on Monday Night Raw.

[SudsMcBucky]

I grew up watching stampede wrestling. The hit man. The British bulldogs. It was amazing wrestling.
Chris Jericho and ken shamrock trained there. It was golden.

Rock-n-Roll Buck Zoomhoff?

[Zool]

Rock-n-Roll Buck Zoomhoff?

I think that was the AWA out of Minneapolis? With the Hulk and Mean Gene. Jumpin Jim Bronzell. Verne Gagne, his boy Greg.

And of course, the Claw Master Baron von Rashke

https://media.makeameme.org/created/and-thats-all-7dd08864f7.jpg

[Upnorth]

How has the most important wrestling league not come up yet???


https://timeline.com/photos-of-the-women-wrestlers-of-g-l-o-w-are-glorious-snapshots-of-1980s-kitsch-d6cf08a85a16

This tought young upnorth many life lessons and to not wear sweats in public

[scharpcheddar]

You pick one little point and ignore the rest. Everyone's laughing at you and you think you are so much smarter than the rest of us.

Do you know any professional football players personally? They'd laugh you out of the room if you tried to convince them of your bullshit. You don't know squat.
Not a single player has ever complained. Not one. Not even close .You have zero proof. You can't even explain the basics of how this crazy conspiracy works. Just shut up already looney

Lol they wouldn't laugh me out of the room. They'd avoid me like a child avoids lying. Of course they'd deny it. you simply choose to believe it's natural.
Youre very scared of being wrong for some reason.

[scharpcheddar]

What he's looking for is what you're giving him. If you stop feeding him, he will get bored eventually.

I'm looking to find people with common sense who can actually see reality.

[scharpcheddar]

You pick one little point and ignore the rest. Everyone's laughing at you and you think you are so much smarter than the rest of us.

Do you know any professional football players personally? They'd laugh you out of the room if you tried to convince them of your bullshit. You don't know squat.
Not a single player has ever complained. Not one. Not even close .You have zero proof. You can't even explain the basics of how this crazy conspiracy works. Just shut up already looney

I didn't avoid anything. It's your comprehensive ability that's the issue.
It's simple. Billionaires own the players and the media.

[Zool]

I'm looking to find people with common sense who can actually see reality.

I assume your favorite song is Under the Bridge?

[scharpcheddar]

I assume your favorite song is Under the Bridge?

Nope. I even had to look that up.
RHCP have been puppets since their first couple albums.

I have a Fear CD in my car currently.
Bauhaus before that.
Saw the Chili at a place in Pasadena in 86.
Dickies opened for them.

[scharpcheddar]

You pick one little point and ignore the rest. Everyone's laughing at you and you think you are so much smarter than the rest of us.

Do you know any professional football players personally? They'd laugh you out of the room if you tried to convince them of your bullshit. You don't know squat.
Not a single player has ever complained. Not one. Not even close .You have zero proof. You can't even explain the basics of how this crazy conspiracy works. Just shut up already looney

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?31856-sharpe1027-here-s-a-starter-kit-for-ya&p=1085193#post1085193

Here something to get started on.

[scharpcheddar]

Yeah

[RashanGary]

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?31856-sharpe1027-here-s-a-starter-kit-for-ya&p=1085193#post1085193

Here something to get started on.

Good listen, cheddar. Thanks for the find.

[scharpcheddar]

Good listen, cheddar. Thanks for the find.

Yeah

[sharpe1027]

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?31856-sharpe1027-here-s-a-starter-kit-for-ya&p=1085193#post1085193

Here something to get started on.
Wait a minute, I thought there were nondisclosure agreements? How can he say that!!!???

[sharpe1027]

What he's looking for is what you're giving him. If you stop feeding him, he will get bored eventually.

I know. I'm just bored.

[sharpe1027]

Let's keep a running tally.
Nondisclosure agreements - not effective.

Next up, who is calling the shots. I believe you claimed it was the NFL, but Dwight said it was Vegas. Is it the NFL, Vegas or both? Is Elvis involved?

[MadtownPacker]

I know. I'm just bored.Exactly, what fun is life if you can’t slap a silly hoe down once in a while.

[sharpe1027]

I didn't avoid anything. It's your comprehensive ability that's the issue.
It's simple. Billionaires own the players and the media.

It's simple, they don't fix games like you claim. Liar.

[scharpcheddar]

Wait a minute, I thought there were nondisclosure agreements? How can he say that!!!???

Lol you are such a childish man. Just keep moving the goal posts and be in denial. Did you listen?

[scharpcheddar]

It's simple, they don't fix games like you claim. Liar.

Lol I don't claim. The nfl calls itself a entertainment entity. That means they can have any outcome they want.

[scharpcheddar]

Let's keep a running tally.
Nondisclosure agreements - not effective.

Next up, who is calling the shots. I believe you claimed it was the NFL, but Dwight said it was Vegas. Is it the NFL, Vegas or both? Is Elvis involved?

Are you so simple minded that you can't fathom that's it's all in unison.
Each section plays it's part.
Vegas is just a generality for gambling entities.
You apparently need to be spoon-fed and hand held for basic critical thought.

You hide your head in the sand and worship jocks

[sharpe1027]

Lol you are such a childish man. Just keep moving the goal posts and be in denial. Did you listen?

Hypocrite.

[sharpe1027]

Are you so simple minded that you can't fathom that's it's all in unison.
Each section plays it's part.
Vegas is just a generality for gambling entities.
You apparently need to be spoon-fed and hand held for basic critical thought.

You hide your head in the sand and worship jocks

So your answer is both.

Okay, so let's talk about who this is. Vegas, is it the owners of all the gambling establishment, or just the biggest? For the NFL, are all the owners in on it, or just a few?

[sharpe1027]

Lol I don't claim. The nfl calls itself a entertainment entity. That means they can have any outcome they want.

No it doesn't. I have as many facts fr my argument as you do.

[MadtownPacker]

If I owned the NFL I would be leaning games to certain outcomes if I could. It would be foolish not to capitalize on current events. Saints winning after Katrina? Hells yes I’m making it happen just like something feel good and patriotic after 911, like the Patriots win. Whatever makes good marketing sense and makes the most $$$.

Unlike Scharpcheddy I don’t think it is to as extreme an extent if it is so. Sure seems like it is sometimes because as fans we have seen some amazing shit happen in games. If it took a fix to make it happen then I’m good with that because it’s fun and yeah sometimes it sucks but the ride was great. Like deceased poster Mobb Depp said when he was being lynched for his unpopular opinion, “it’s just entertainment!!”.

[sharpe1027]

Leaning games one way is what t happens in all sports at all levels. Predetermined results is hilarious. These billionaires are no smarter than the rest of us. To believe like they can pull something like this off is giving them way too much credit.

[RashanGary]

If I owned the NFL I would be leaning games to certain outcomes if I could. It would be foolish not to capitalize on current events. Saints winning after Katrina? Hells yes I’m making it happen just like something feel good and patriotic after 911, like the Patriots win. Whatever makes good marketing sense and makes the most $$$.

Unlike Scharpcheddy I don’t think it is to as extreme an extent if it is so. Sure seems like it is sometimes because as fans we have seen some amazing shit happen in games. If it took a fix to make it happen then I’m good with that because it’s fun and yeah sometimes it sucks but the ride was great. Like deceased poster Mobb Depp said when he was being lynched for his unpopular opinion, “it’s just entertainment!!”.

Mobb deep died?

[smuggler]

The other dude from Mobb Deep is still alive.

[th87]

Yeah Havoc is still rapping.

But was MTP being figurative about Mobb Deep the poster?

[scharpcheddar]

Leaning games one way is what t happens in all sports at all levels. Predetermined results is hilarious. These billionaires are no smarter than the rest of us. To believe like they can pull something like this off is giving them way too much credit.

What? You have to be a fake account to say that billionaires are at your level of intelligence. They are ruthless psychopaths.

[scharpcheddar]

No it doesn't. I have as many facts fr my argument as you do.

Lol at no it doesn't. You're illiterate, sir
They do not claim to be competition.
A ny her can sued because of Pats cheating ways .the courts said tough, the only thing that ticket gives you is a seat to sit in. The nfl is not obligated to give you a honest outcome.

[sharpe1027]

What? You have to be a fake account to say that billionaires are at your level of intelligence. They are ruthless psychopaths.

Not true.

[sharpe1027]

Lol at no it doesn't. You're illiterate, sir
They do not claim to be competition.
A ny her can sued because of Pats cheating ways .the courts said tough, the only thing that ticket gives you is a seat to sit in. The nfl is not obligated to give you a honest outcome.

Is it all owners of a sports book or just a few in on this conspiracy?

Is it all owners in the NFL, or just a few?

Dazzle us with your intelligence.

[Sparkey]

The great thing about a conspiracy is that it can never be proven false. Everything is just vague enough to prove nothing while obfuscating everything.

A conspiracy's biggest enemy is common sense.

Unfortunately, common sense seems to be lacking these days.

[run pMc]

What are we talking about? NFL games are fixed? LMAO

If that were true it would have leaked already.
Think about how hard it is to keep a surprise birthday party a surprise. Now imagine that, but ongoing for years, and with thousands more people (including ex-employees) keeping their mouths shut. Yeah, people are too gossipy for that to be real.

Honestly, people just make shit up because it fits something they want to believe.

[sharpe1027]

What are we talking about? NFL games are fixed? LMAO

If that were true it would have leaked already.
Think about how hard it is to keep a surprise birthday party a surprise. Now imagine that, but ongoing for years, and with thousands more people (including ex-employees) keeping their mouths shut. Yeah, people are too gossipy for that to be real.

Honestly, people just make shit up because it fits something they want to believe.

I read it on the Internet, and it makes me feel smart to know something that's supposed to be a secret. You must be wrong.

[RashanGary]

I bet on the games being rigged and win.

[sharpe1027]

I bet on the games being rigged and win.

Correlation is not causation.

[RashanGary]

Correlation is not causation.

Maybe. I by no means call you guys stupid and think I know it all like some others do. That’s possible. But I’ll make a likely to be rigged thread next year and call shots and see if you buy in after seeing it happen over and over

[sharpe1027]

Maybe. I by no means call you guys stupid and think I know it all like some others do. That’s possible. But I’ll make a likely to be rigged thread next year and call shots and see if you buy in after seeing it happen over and over

How do you determine which way it's rigged?

[Upnorth]

How do you determine which way it's rigged?

Entrails and bribes.

[RashanGary]

How do you determine which way it's rigged?

Games that seem like easy money, like all bettors going one way.... I go the other.

[RashanGary]

Media going in.... Everyone says one thing
Recent history.... Points one direction
Vegas odds look too good to be true


I go the opposite of extreme momentum and it's been a winning formula.

[RashanGary]

Suspicious NFL people

Refs: Hussey, Kemp, whoever reffed the last two bucs games

Ariens, Gruden




All refs are sus on some level. Games with betting lines that seem too good to be true are always sus.

[sharpe1027]

Media going in.... Everyone says one thing
Recent history.... Points one direction
Vegas odds look too good to be true


I go the opposite of extreme momentum and it's been a winning formula.

What you're describing seems to closely align with a betting strategy sometimes referred to as the contrarian method. It's not very good evidence of rigging.

Why do you think the odds to good to be true indicate rigging? Is it your opinion that is the bookies playing games to get lopsided bets on side to make more money? I am no expert, but those situations seem to occur as a result of too many people betting on the other side. The model of sports books is to get even money on each side.

[GB-Brandon]

What you're describing seems to closely align with a betting strategy sometimes referred to as the contrarian method. It's not very good evidence of rigging.

Why do you think the odds to good to be true indicate rigging? Is it your opinion that is the bookies playing games to get lopsided bets on side to make more money? I am no expert, but those situations seem to occur as a result of too many people betting on the other side. The model of sports books is to get even money on each side.

He’s a rookie sports bettor obsessed with this method! While they are times to move in this direction it is not as simple as you describe. There are several other components needed to use and master this strategy.

[RashanGary]

He’s a rookie sports bettor obsessed with this method! While they are times to move in this direction it is not as simple as you describe. There are several other components needed to use and master this strategy.

I use other components. I don’t do it often, only when it looks like the best setup. And when momentum is a certain level. They mix it up enough that you really have to have a feel to get away with it. But I do. Certain refs, certain types of betting momentum.

Sometimes I bet half my stack on -1000 ML. But I'm more likely to do that a week or two after a big upset.

[RashanGary]

And often times I bet the spread on the upset team not the ML. It's a lot of variables that I have to consider, how might they fuck the most bettors and I go there.

[RashanGary]

Brandon, being a bettor, I can't believe you don't think it's rigged after paying so close attention. There are moments where it cant be anything but a rig job and bettors would see it more easily as we watch a lot more football

[RashanGary]

They have ways to fuck systems. So I bet in a way that fucks each system.

[sharpe1027]

They have ways to fuck systems. So I bet in a way that fucks each system.

Maybe, maybe not. The only bet I'd make is that you'll lose in the long run.

[RashanGary]

Maybe, maybe not. The only bet I'd make is that you'll lose in the long run.

I'm up double. I've bet in the past more but I dropped 100 last year to see if I could make money at it. I'm at 200 now. Double in 2 years. I'd like it to go up faster but there is a discipline to it where you'd lose fast if you didn't have it.

[RashanGary]

I hope to get one lucky big one. I never win on my long odds bets. But one of those hitting and ill be playing with a bigger stack. I don't expect to lose. I don't expect to win. I expect to find out if I can win at it one way or the other. Two years and I cant stop till I lose and prove I cant do it.

[RashanGary]

I bet a dollar on a few +4000 bets on teams with covid cap money

Dolphins, Patriots, giants (easy cuts), and jaguars (huge cash pile, eternity odds)


Just tiny bets at long odds and accounting for covid cap flux.


So just little opportunities as they present. Post free agency will have a swing on these odds and the teams I picked should be on the right side of that swing.



So I don't do one thing. I do a bunch of little things, among them, always accounting for possible rigging and looking out for those traps or opportunities.

[scharpcheddar]

The great thing about a conspiracy is that it can never be proven false. Everything is just vague enough to prove nothing while obfuscating everything.

A conspiracy's biggest enemy is common sense.

Unfortunately, common sense seems to be lacking these days.

If something can't be proven false. Maybe you need to rethink the so called logic you were taught in school. It was meant to do nothing but dumb people down and look at 2 predetermined sides.
If you can't prove it false, there must be truth in there.
Or multiple sides never thought of/ understood

[scharpcheddar]

What are we talking about? NFL games are fixed? LMAO

If that were true it would have leaked already.
Think about how hard it is to keep a surprise birthday party a surprise. Now imagine that, but ongoing for years, and with thousands more people (including ex-employees) keeping their mouths shut. Yeah, people are too gossipy for that to be real.

Honestly, people just make shit up because it fits something they want to believe.

Such a simplistic view. You know govt us corrupt.. yet they keep going and you keep.letting them do it. That's 1000s upon thousands of people.
And you think they can't collusion aeague for outcomes they want? It's too easy for them.

[sharpe1027]

If something can't be proven false. Maybe you need to rethink the so called logic you were taught in school. It was meant to do nothing but dumb people down and look at 2 predetermined sides.
If you can't prove it false, there must be truth in there.
Or multiple sides never thought of/ understood

Who is it specifically? Names please.

[RashanGary]

If something can't be proven false. Maybe you need to rethink the so called logic you were taught in school. It was meant to do nothing but dumb people down and look at 2 predetermined sides.
If you can't prove it false, there must be truth in there.
Or multiple sides never thought of/ understood

Oh no, you're fast making too much sense for me to hate your rude ass approach. Reign it in, yes they're dumbed down from school, but we must communicate calmly lest the masses drift further into oblivion.

[RashanGary]

Who is it specifically? Names please.

A lot of things we cant prove are true, sharpe. If they thought they were gonna be busted out, it would be stupid go conspire. We don't presume them stupid, only corrupt.

[sharpe1027]

A lot of things we cant prove are true, sharpe. If they thought they were gonna be busted out, it would be stupid go conspire. We don't presume them stupid, only corrupt.

You can't prove I'm not God.

[sharpe1027]

A lot of things we cant prove are true, sharpe. If they thought they were gonna be busted out, it would be stupid go conspire. We don't presume them stupid, only corrupt.

Who is they?

[RashanGary]

You can't prove I'm not God.

You not being god doesn’t mean hidden corruption doesn’t exist. That’s not a good parallel. I would say you’re far less likely to be god than hidden corruption to exist.

[sharpe1027]

You not being god doesn’t mean hidden corruption doesn’t exist. That’s not a good parallel. I would say you’re far less likely to be god than hidden corruption to exist.

Based on what?

[sharpe1027]

You not being god doesn’t mean hidden corruption doesn’t exist. That’s not a good parallel. I would say you’re far less likely to be god than hidden corruption to exist.

Hold the phone. Don't try to soft sell this now. Say exactly what you mean. My issue isn't that there's no hidden corruptio. That's way different than claiming a mega conspiracy that encompasses all the owners, all gambling institutions, the refs, and many players, such that the entire season is "scripted".

Honest question, has anyone who thinks you could "script" a game ever played football, or any competitive team sport?

[RashanGary]

Hold the phone. Don't try to soft sell this now. Say exactly what you mean. My issue isn't that there's no hidden corruptio. That's way different than claiming a mega conspiracy that encompasses all the owners, all gambling institutions, the refs, and many players, such that the entire season is "scripted".

Honest question, has anyone who thinks you could "script" a game ever played football, or any competitive team sport?

It could be as simple as 2 or 3 mafia refs. It doesn’t have to include all players and coaches or even all refs

[RashanGary]

If I had to guess the corruption would be all head refs and a couple up and comers. So maybe 30% of the referees. I’ve watched enough football to know when the refs are with you, no one can be against you.

[sharpe1027]

If I had to guess the corruption would be all head refs and a couple up and comers. So maybe 30% of the referees. I’ve watched enough football to know when the refs are with you, no one can be against you.

More plausible. Still unlikely. Who is calling the shots?

[HarveyWallbangers]

More plausible. Still unlikely. Who is calling the shots?

Probably gamblers—like in the NBA. (I doubt Tim Donaghy was the only corrupt one.)

These guys don’t need to win every game. They just need to stack the odds in their favor. That’s what Donaghy did.

[sharpe1027]

Probably gamblers—like in the NBA. (I doubt Tim Donaghy was the only corrupt one.)

These guys don’t need to win every game. They just need to stack the odds in their favor. That’s what Donaghy did.

That's documented as having happened before. No argument from me on that. It's a different animal than the NFL or Vegas controlling games.

[RashanGary]

That's documented as having happened before. No argument from me on that. It's a different animal than the NFL or Vegas controlling games.

Before they proved The nba thing it was still real. Sometimes real things go under the radar.

[sharpe1027]

Before they proved The nba thing it was still real. Sometimes real things go under the radar.

Point is, one off instances of bribery between two or three people is not comparable to systemic conspiracies with large number of constantly changing individuals who often have competing interests.

[Zool]

NBA situation was points shaving to cover betting lines. What is being bandied about here is that the NFL is like the WWE and it’s all predetermined.

[th87]

Yeah, theoretically not that hard to do. One guy representing the league, and a few refs acting for "the greater good". Skew games for the preferred outcome, which will happen most of the time, but not necessarily all of the time.

Goal is to make money. And especially for the NBA, that means Lakers in the Finals to bring in the casuals. And that league was already busted for this, and immediately squashed the investigation.

[sharpe1027]

Yeah, theoretically not that hard to do. One guy representing the league, and a few refs acting for "the greater good". Skew games for the preferred outcome, which will happen most of the time, but not necessarily all of the time.

Goal is to make money. And especially for the NBA, that means Lakers in the Finals to bring in the casuals. And that league was already busted for this, and immediately squashed the investigation.

Hold on, we're talking about point shaving by a ref placing bets to make money for himself. How does this become the league rigging games in your mind?

[sharpe1027]

I concede. These billionaires are masterminds. So good, in fact, that they make fools of themselves to seem incompetent. They've managed to bring in hundreds of new people into their schemes, people from varied backgrounds, everyone of them lacking morale character to speak out when approached and instead go along with the elaborate scheme. Despite having competing interests, they work seemlessly together to decide which of their group will take one for the team, while the pick one as the ultimate winner. They even stage public disputes between themselves to throw us sheep off the trail. They make bafflingly decisions that only they can understand, because they are not just people, they're physcopaths that somehow sacrifice their own self-interest for the greater good.

Take Jerry Jones, despite having the largest television draw, where the league gets the vast majority of their money, he quietly allows his team to suck so that the other owners can have the spotlight. He puts on a convincing act to make the rest of us think he'd be incapable of doing this. Brilliant, really.

Meanwhile, the players don't spend time honing their skills in practice. They instead take a page out of WWE to work on techniques to follow the script while looking like they are play their hearts out. Some of them do so at peril of being cut or not getting as big a payday. Indeed, they never bring up their knowledge of the scheme as leverage to keep a job or get a bigger payday, it in negotiations with the league (lockouts were staged too). The hundreds of supporting coaches, trainers, building staff that see them practice every day are either in on it or not smart enough to know the difference.

I could go on, but there's no need. I am 100% convinced this is all true. All the evidence in this thread is impossible for me to ignore any longer.

[bobblehead]

Who is they?

God is infallible and I have seen you post some dumb ass things (not throwing stones...I have as well), therefore you are fallible and therefore you are not God.

I win.

[bobblehead]

Hold the phone. Don't try to soft sell this now. Say exactly what you mean. My issue isn't that there's no hidden corruptio. That's way different than claiming a mega conspiracy that encompasses all the owners, all gambling institutions, the refs, and many players, such that the entire season is "scripted".

Honest question, has anyone who thinks you could "script" a game ever played football, or any competitive team sport?

I have a theory. Its just that. I have no proof other than circumstantial. Brady has proven the lengths he will go to win. Illegally filming opponents. Deflating footballs. So would it be a stretch to think he hired P.I.s and had refs in the NFL followed and dug into until he found some really good dirt on them? Is that unthinkable for him? I mean, I can't give any other explanation that for years now I watch flags fall whenever he is stopped on 3rd and 7 to extend drives. Its always a subjective call like defensive holding, automatic first down.

Meantime I watch his defenses absolutely mug WRs all game long. I could give specifics, but if you have watched most playoff games the last decade as I have, you know what I mean.

[sharpe1027]

God is infallible and I have seen you post some dumb ass things (not throwing stones...I have as well), therefore you are fallible and therefore you are not God.

I win.

You pretend to understand God's plan?

[sharpe1027]

I have a theory. Its just that. I have no proof other than circumstantial. Brady has proven the lengths he will go to win. Illegally filming opponents. Deflating footballs. So would it be a stretch to think he hired P.I.s and had refs in the NFL followed and dug into until he found some really good dirt on them? Is that unthinkable for him? I mean, I can't give any other explanation that for years now I watch flags fall whenever he is stopped on 3rd and 7 to extend drives. Its always a subjective call like defensive holding, automatic first down.

Meantime I watch his defenses absolutely mug WRs all game long. I could give specifics, but if you have watched most playoff games the last decade as I have, you know what I mean.

So it's Brady, not the NFL owners, not Vegas. My head is spinning from all these different theories. Why don't all if you argue it out and come back to me with one coherent theory. After all, I'm an idiot for not being able to see what's painfully obvious to the rest of you. Should be easy to clear this up.

[RashanGary]

So it's Brady, not the NFL owners, not Vegas. My head is spinning from all these different theories. Why don't all if you argue it out and come back to me with one coherent theory. After all, I'm an idiot for not being able to see what's painfully obvious to the rest of you. Should be easy to clear this up.

Why are you being sarcastic and insulting? We’re seeing sketch behavior and brainstorming possible reasons. I doubt bobbles idea but I’m not gonna make a big sarcastic paragraph about it. Outside of sharp cheddar, no one is being disrespectful to you.

[RashanGary]

I doubt bobbles theory because i watch more football than bobble and see more sketchy games that don’t include Brady. Refs seem sus to me.

[sharpe1027]

Why are you being sarcastic and insulting? We’re seeing sketch behavior and brainstorming possible reasons. I doubt bobbles idea but I’m not gonna make a big sarcastic paragraph about it. Outside of sharp cheddar, no one is being disrespectful to you.

I'm an asshole. But there's not much sarcasm in that particular post. I'm truly confused by the multitude of ways people are creating theories. While I admit to lumping the conspiracy theorist into a single group somewhat unfairly, it highlights that each of them can arrive at adifferent and often contradictory conclusion from the same set of facts. It's suggestive of a common predetermined conclusion in search of justification and explanation.

[RashanGary]

Sketchy behavior, possible reasons. It’s not perplexing.

[RashanGary]

Some people see sketchy behavior and ask why. I call it thinking.

[RashanGary]

Sharpe, since it’s so baffling to you, I’ll give the run down of what I saw from three people posting about possible foul play.


Cheddar has a long term view point that the NFL is sketchy. He chalks the ref behavior as status quo.

Bobble has no preexisting view point but noticed back to back sketchy games so thinks Brady is the reason for the bad ref botching

I have a couple year history with it and win money betting on it. I see horrible one way refing as common and think it’s to hurt gamblers


Three people observing bad refereeing and coming up with possible reasons. It’s open minded observation and then considering reasons. It’s not as bizarre as you make it out.

[RashanGary]

Your view point is the reffing was either fine or just coincidentally bad in back to back games and there is no reason for it other than chance.


Four different viewpoints of the same two games reffing. It happens all of the time.

[sharpe1027]

Your view point is the reffing was either fine or just coincidentally bad in back to back games and there is no reason for it other than chance.


Four different viewpoints of the same two games reffing. It happens all of the time.

Not my view. Anyone that's watched NFL over that last 20 years should have been expecting the refs to swallow their whistles and "just let them play." Right or wrong, they did it again for both teams.

Did the Packers get the worse end of that? Sure seemed that way, but that's not evidence of a conspiracy.

[RashanGary]

Not my view. Anyone that's watched NFL over that last 20 years should have been expecting the refs to swallow their whistles and "just let them play." Right or wrong, they did it again for both teams.

Did the Packers get the worse end of that? Sure seemed that way, but that's not evidence of a conspiracy.

It’s suspicious to a lot of people. Shouldn’t be so perplexing that people start asking questions when they see that. You’re trying to make this huge sarcastic tone, that people shouldn’t question bad refing or wonder why. People think, sharpe. They put things together. It’s very common.

[RashanGary]

One time I told a kid who worked for me that I would fuck him up. He told on me. I said I didn’t do it. I conspired to cover my tracks. No one could prove it because it was my word against his and I lied. It happens all of the time, bud. It’s about as complicated as a 4 year old pointing at his baby sister when he makes a mess. People grasp the lying concept early, bud. Questioning whether people are lying isn’t as insane and ridiculous as you try to sarcastically make it seem. It’s a very common human behavior.

[RashanGary]

Now proving a liar... that gets sticky sometimes and here we are wondering and you trying to make it sound ridiculous to question.

[RashanGary]

The patterns of flags and no flags during the last two buccaneers game is a red flag to me and looks an awful lot like the two hands to the face on Detroit last year on third down when they gave us a game and the two tripping in week 10 in Dallas/New England when I watched every gsme leading up and it was called twice in one game on third down and the only two times all year. You see enough bullshit and you start to wonder.

[RashanGary]

Could it be happenstance? Sure. Could it be corruption. Yeah. Can we prove either? Not by my estimate. Do I still think it's corruption? Yes. Do you still think it's not? Yes. So we have differing opinions. It happens. Slick ass sarcasm doesn't make you look smarter or more right. And me, stating my opinion doesn’t make me right either, but that’s what we do here.

[sharpe1027]

Could it be happenstance? Sure. Could it be corruption. Yeah. Can we prove either? Not by my estimate. Do I still think it's corruption? Yes. Do you still think it's not? Yes. So we have differing opinions. It happens. Slick ass sarcasm doesn't make you look smarter or more right. And me, stating my opinion doesn’t make me right either, but that’s what we do here.

I was responding with sarcasm in the context of having been the recipient of statements about how stupid I was for not being able to see how obvious it was that the NFL and Vegas scripted games. If my sarcasm hit a nerve, maybe there's more there than you're willing to admit?

[sharpe1027]

One time I told a kid who worked for me that I would fuck him up. He told on me. I said I didn’t do it. I conspired to cover my tracks. No one could prove it because it was my word against his and I lied. It happens all of the time, bud. It’s about as complicated as a 4 year old pointing at his baby sister when he makes a mess. People grasp the lying concept early, bud. Questioning whether people are lying isn’t as insane and ridiculous as you try to sarcastically make it seem. It’s a very common human behavior.

We're not talking about someone lying to avoid getting caught. We're talking about a grand conspiracy spanning decades and hundreds of people done under one of the biggest media spotlights we have.

[sharpe1027]

The patterns of flags and no flags during the last two buccaneers game is a red flag to me and looks an awful lot like the two hands to the face on Detroit last year on third down when they gave us a game and the two tripping in week 10 in Dallas/New England when I watched every gsme leading up and it was called twice in one game on third down and the only two times all year. You see enough bullshit and you start to wonder.

Respectfully, shitty calls happen every game. This is confirmation bias at it's finest. I respectfully concede there's no way to convince you otherwise, but your argument basically boils down to "it seems fishy."

It's sports man. The losers always have bad plays and calls they will be upset about. Every. Damn. Game

[th87]

We're not talking about someone lying to avoid getting caught. We're talking about a grand conspiracy spanning decades and hundreds of people done under one of the biggest media spotlights we have.

Not really - you don't need that many people. I'll use the NBA example as it's more "obvious":

- David Stern/Adam Silver has a directive (perhaps implicit, e.g. financial interest) to favor large market teams.
- Employ a few refs who will provide this skew (Dick Bavetta was notorious for calling games in ways that would extend series).
- Heavily fine any player or owner criticizing any call or questioning any ref, ensuring no accountability ever.

How many people have to be in on this arrangement?

For the most egregious example I've ever seen, see Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals. An absolute train wreck. Donaghy came out and said the games were skewed and was willing to sing about the extent. But the investigation was immediately squashed by the NBA, and they quickly concluded he was acting alone, no further investigation necessary.

[sharpe1027]

Not really - you don't need that many people. I'll use the NBA example as it's more "obvious":

- David Stern/Adam Silver has a directive (perhaps implicit, e.g. financial interest) to favor large market teams.
- Employ a few refs who will provide this skew (Dick Bavetta was notorious for calling games in ways that would extend series).
- Heavily fine any player or owner criticizing any call or questioning any ref, ensuring no accountability ever.

How many people have to be in on this arrangement?

For the most egregious example I've ever seen, see Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals. An absolute train wreck. Donaghy came out and said the games were skewed and was willing to sing about the extent. But the investigation was immediately squashed by the NBA, and they quickly concluded he was acting alone, no further investigation necessary.

Look, we can come up with any number of different flavors of what could happen. I could make an argument that you pay off players to throw games so you can win your office league.

That's not where this discussion started. What's your position on the NFL and Vegas working together to script games over the past 20+ years. This conspiracy involves players like Rodgers in addition to referees.

[sharpe1027]

Not really - you don't need that many people. I'll use the NBA example as it's more "obvious":

- David Stern/Adam Silver has a directive (perhaps implicit, e.g. financial interest) to favor large market teams.
- Employ a few refs who will provide this skew (Dick Bavetta was notorious for calling games in ways that would extend series).
- Heavily fine any player or owner criticizing any call or questioning any ref, ensuring no accountability ever.

How many people have to be in on this arrangement?

For the most egregious example I've ever seen, see Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals. An absolute train wreck. Donaghy came out and said the games were skewed and was willing to sing about the extent. But the investigation was immediately squashed by the NBA, and they quickly concluded he was acting alone, no further investigation necessary.

Donaghy rigged games for individual betting purposes. That happens.

Can you imagine the owners would do if they got wind of Stearns directly causing their team to lose out on millions of dollars in revenue that comes with a championship? They'd string him up. His personal financial incentives are somewhat insulated. He's not directly profiting from league ratings. Further, the downside of getting caught is criminal prosecution and losing his job. The incentives don't seem to be there.

[RashanGary]

I don’t really like cheddars weird conspiracy with thousands of people in it. Seems almost impossible. Ones with a couple refs though, those are possible and line up with the refereeing red flags over the years.

I’m not saying you’re an idiot for doubting it. Either side is somewhat reasonable as this can’t be proved. Just don’t come here laying on sarcasm about how stupid abyone is for questioning ref integrity or game integrity. There are some really suspicious games out there over the last couple years.

[RashanGary]

We're not talking about someone lying to avoid getting caught. We're talking about a grand conspiracy spanning decades and hundreds of people done under one of the biggest media spotlights we have.

No, you picked the most unreasonable theory and lumped us all in. Most people think it’s a couple refs and maybe in my case, Gruden and Arians. Those two seems sus.

[sharpe1027]

No, you picked the most unreasonable theory and lumped us all in. Most people think it’s a couple refs and maybe in my case, Gruden and Arians. Those two seems sus.

I responded directly to that theory because it was so ridiculous. You chose to add your theory to the discussion in a manner that seemed to be pushing back on my questions about that theory. If you are now upset that I didn't spend enough time addressing your theory, why is that my concern?

[RashanGary]

I responded directly to that theory because it was so ridiculous. You chose to add your theory to the discussion in a manner that seemed to be pushing back on my questions about that theory. If you are now upset that I didn't spend enough time addressing your theory, why is that my concern?

There is no way a rigged game has to include thousands of people. So even responding to that doesn’t involve much critical thought. Consider the possibilities yourself. Add something to the conversation.

[sharpe1027]

There is no way a rigged game has to include thousands of people. So even responding to that doesn’t involve much critical thought. Consider the possibilities yourself. Add something to the conversation.

Sure, it's ridiculous. That's why I took the bait in the first place. The entire NFL is not just WWE style scripting all games from the refs down to the players and having been done for decades. If you think that's ridiculous, then we agree on something.

Saying "add something to the conversation" is just a dick move when taken in context of where this whole thing started.

[RashanGary]

Sure, it's ridiculous. That's why I took the bait in the first place. The entire NFL is not just WWE style scripting all games from the refs down to the players and having been done for decades. If you think that's ridiculous, then we agree on something.

Saying "add something to the conversation" is just a dick move when taken in context of where this whole thing started.

Fair enough. Cheddar assumes an awful lot. I like the rigged line of thinking, the level he goes with it seems far fetched at best. But I will always defend considering possibilities when there are red flags, just not going so far as to inclide that many people in a big conspiracy. The players would all have to be acting disappointed when they knew it was rigged. Yeah, not easy to believe

[sharpe1027]

Fair enough. Cheddar assumes an awful lot. I like the rigged line of thinking, the level he goes with it seems far fetched at best. But I will always defend considering possibilities when there are red flags, just not going so far as to inclide that many people in a big conspiracy. The players would all have to be acting disappointed when they knew it was rigged. Yeah, not easy to believe

I admit there could be rigging going on in some fashion. I don't see enough to prove it one way or the other. Seems as likely it's just confirmation bias in many instances. Who knows?

[th87]

Look, we can come up with any number of different flavors of what could happen. I could make an argument that you pay off players to throw games so you can win your office league.

That's not where this discussion started. What's your position on the NFL and Vegas working together to script games over the past 20+ years. This conspiracy involves players like Rodgers in addition to referees.

Yeah, the conspiracy in your second sentence is impossible. No chance that that many people could work together in unison for decades (which is also why a certain conspiracy being alluded to in another part of this board is also impossible).

[th87]

Donaghy rigged games for individual betting purposes. That happens.

Can you imagine the owners would do if they got wind of Stearns directly causing their team to lose out on millions of dollars in revenue that comes with a championship? They'd string him up. His personal financial incentives are somewhat insulated. He's not directly profiting from league ratings. Further, the downside of getting caught is criminal prosecution and losing his job. The incentives don't seem to be there.

Donaghy was caught doing that, but had named others with different agendas, with Bavetta specifically being named as a "company man". No further investigations of these leads were ever conducted, despite having legs.

Owners have accused the league of being rigged (offhand, I remember Cuban saying so after the NBA willed his team to lose against the Heat in 2006). He was fined heavily and shut up about it, as the NBA does have the power to force a sale (and it's far more lucrative to be in than out). Jeff Van Gundy has also gotten into hot water for it. Ray Allen has also gotten fined for saying that it behooves the league to have a Lakers/Sixers finals at the expense of the Bucks. It's kind of an open secret at this point (e.g. so and so gets "superstar" calls).

The commissioner gets paid a percentage of league revenues, I believe. With more large market teams playing in the Finals, all teams benefit financially more via revenue sharing than they might have, had a small market team being in the Finals diluted said revenue sharing. I'm also not sure if it's even a crime - sports leagues are entertainment and probably has freedom to operate how they wish to maximize entertainment.

And that Kings Lakers series in 2002 is too insane to be attributed to confirmation bias. It was absolutely egregious.

[sharpe1027]

It's a federal crime to pay any type of bribe to rig a sporting contest. Full stop. Up to five years in prison. Also the potential damages for civil liability are pretty large.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It's a federal crime to pay any type of bribe to rig a sporting contest. Full stop. Up to five years in prison. Also the potential damages for civil liability are pretty large.

That hasn’t stopped individuals from doing it before. The setup is that gamblers find dirt on an official (where 5 years don’t mean much), and use that to their advantage.

[sharpe1027]

That hasn’t stopped individuals from doing it before. The setup is that gamblers find dirt on an official (where 5 years don’t mean much), and use that to their advantage.

Agreed. We are talking about whether the commissioner would do it. That's not the same in my mind. Do you think Goodell Iis going to risk prison time by approaching multiple referees with a proposal to rig games? It just takes one misjudgement of character where the ref does the smart thing and calls the FBI. There's plenty of shady individuals, but not everyone is willing to risk jail time for money.

It's conceivable, but I don't think it's likely.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I didn’t think it was likely in the NBA, but the Kings-Lakers series changed everything for me.

[Zool]

I didn’t think it was likely in the NBA, but the Kings-Lakers series changed everything for me.

How about the Bucks and 6ers in 2001? That's the one that killed me for a decade.

[call_me_ishmael]

I have a theory. Its just that. I have no proof other than circumstantial. Brady has proven the lengths he will go to win. Illegally filming opponents. Deflating footballs. So would it be a stretch to think he hired P.I.s and had refs in the NFL followed and dug into until he found some really good dirt on them? Is that unthinkable for him? I mean, I can't give any other explanation that for years now I watch flags fall whenever he is stopped on 3rd and 7 to extend drives. Its always a subjective call like defensive holding, automatic first down.

Meantime I watch his defenses absolutely mug WRs all game long. I could give specifics, but if you have watched most playoff games the last decade as I have, you know what I mean.

This assumes there is dirt, though. I am not an innocent person or a puritan but the absolute worst thing that anyone tailing me for over a year would find is that I probably watch an unhealthy amount of porn. I tend to think most people fall into this camp. Who are these people that have some big secret that it is worth risking _everything_ over?

[sharpe1027]

I didn’t think it was likely in the NBA, but the Kings-Lakers series changed everything for me.

Thing is, even if you assume there was rigging, it doesn't mean it was the commissioner. Seems more likely it was gambling related based on history.

[The Renegade]

Always tough to see A Rod come up just shirt, but if you're going to go down, not too many QB led squads better to go down to than with Tom Brady at the helm. Still a great season from the Packers.