WHICH QUATERBACK PLAYS PLAYS ON THE GREEN BAY PACKERS TEAM LONGER ??

[Bretsky]

Is Guter going to eat Crow, restructure and extend AROD 4-5 years down the road, or hold tight with his plans for da Lov Machine

[Bretsky]

It's been a popular debate on radio lately.

Clearly AROD wants an extension that would both help GB cap wise but also offer him some security for 4-5 more years to finish his career with the Green Bay Packers

Clearly this was not GUTE's plan when he spent a 1st round AND 4th round draft pick on last year's 3rd string QB Jordan Love. I'm not sure it's even his plan now but he has to be feeling some pressure after some of the comments AROD has made as well as his performance.

So it's a fair question.

Which QB plays for Green Bay Longer ? If we extend Rodgers 4-5 years, that could go through Love's contract more.

So does Gutebag eat crow, and trade hisboy ? Or does he play hard core with AROD and not give in to Rodgers wanting to extend and secure his spot as a Packer for the rest of his career ?

What says the Ratpack ?

Who's in GB longer ???

[MadScientist]

The Packers are screwed by the Covid Cap Cut. As it stands they have to cut P. Smith and Lowery just to get under the cap and would likely have to do more to sign the rookies. They will likely give Rodgers the extension he wants to get cap relief. While they could make it manageable to cut Rodgers after 2023, doing so would mean having to pick up Love's 5th year option and going with him with a lot of uncertainty. So unless Rodgers has an injury this year or next and Love plays brilliantly, Rodgers will be here longer and Love will be traded after 2022, and probably become a franchise QB somewhere else.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm not negative about Gutekunst - not yet anyway. He took a small step in that direction by choosing to not franchise Aaron Jones. He will take a major step in that direction if he fails to keep Jones. But if he ever was so supremely bonehead stupid to choose Love over squeezing every year out of the time we can have Aaron Rodgers, well, as much as I love dogs, I'd advocate giving him the Dan Devine treatment.

My projection for Jordan Love is 60/40 he becomes an adequate NFL starter (think Kirk Cousins), and about 25/75 he becomes a NFL star quality QB (by that I mean maybe Matt Ryan or Matthew Stafford quality), and about 1 in 1,000 he ends up as good as Aaron Rodgers for his career.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Clearly AROD wants an extension that would both help GB cap wise but also offer him some security for 4-5 more years to finish his career with the Green Bay Packers

I doubt an extension is in the works. I'm thinking they are figuring out how much, if any, of his other bonuses they can convert to a signing bonus to clear some cap space this year. I think Rodgers play has extended his timeline with the Packers until after the 2022 season. If he had played like he did the last couple of years, they may have parted ways after 2021. I think they want to convert enough to give them breathing room on the cap this year--while not hamstringing them if they want to move on after 2022.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The Packers are screwed by the Covid Cap Cut. As it stands they have to cut P. Smith and Lowery just to get under the cap and would likely have to do more to sign the rookies. They will likely give Rodgers the extension he wants to get cap relief. While they could make it manageable to cut Rodgers after 2023, doing so would mean having to pick up Love's 5th year option and going with him with a lot of uncertainty. So unless Rodgers has an injury this year or next and Love plays brilliantly, Rodgers will be here longer and Love will be traded after 2022, and probably become a franchise QB somewhere else.

They don't have to sign him to an extension to give themselves relief. They can convert roster bonuses and such to a signing bonus to clear cap space. They can do that without the player's consent. I think the Packers way is to do it amicable and up front. Why wouldn't a player want the money up front though? It's a win-win for both team and player. There are plenty of other guys they can do the same with to clear cap space (Rodgers, Z. Smith, Turner, Amos). A contract extension for Davante Adams would also clear cap space this year.

Their financial situation is not as dire as it's may out to be. Many other teams are in the process of doing the same thing. New Orleans is the only team that is in dire shape.

[Upnorth]

There are options to make space without a rodgers extension as Harvey has shown above. I think it is foolish to plan that our 37 yr old MVP qb will still be effective past age 40. Qbs playing well past age 40 are substantially rarer than qbs who go to the hof. Play the odds imo.

[Joemailman]

I don't think Rodgers gets an extension. I think he likely gets to play out his contract through through 2023. At that point Love takes over. LaFleur's offense is a quarterback-friendly system. Jared Goff had his best season with LaFleur as his OC. I think Packers will be confident they can continue to have an elite passing offense post-Rodgers.

[Upnorth]

If we can find a few wr over then next 3 years the transition from rodgers to love (or whoever we get that has skill) will be smoothish.

I hope we pick at least one more qb between now and then. And i look forward to the drama when they do.

I remember how the brohm pick proved rodgers was a bust.

[Fritz]

I'm guessing they don't extend but restructure Rodgers's contract. It sounds like, instead, they can get a bunch of cap space by restructuring and/or extending Dr. Z's contract. He says he wants to be a Packer for life.

[bobblehead]

This question is impossible to answer without knowing Rodgers demands. Does he want to extend 2 more years at $20 million each and convert this years salary to signing bonus? Then by all means deal Love for whatever you can get. Does he want $40 million? Then deal him and move on.

We had a discussion earlier about overpaying all these QBs. I think if this offseason has shown us anything its the consequences of giving your QB a record deal.

Brady wants to win. He picked his spot and signed for $25 million. He got a stocked young roster around him. Deeper dive. This offseason, the QB carousal is full motion. Texans, Seahawks, Rams, Eagles all overpaid average QBs. Falcons have Ryan being overpaid at this point in his deal. Dallas just assured cap hell and no defense for 4 more years. Kirk Cousins has his team missing the playoffs. The impact of the Maholmes deal hasn't even hit yet and their lack of depth and (oh yes, WRs) showed up big time as he dropped a big 9 points on the Bucs. Teams that kicked the cap down the road are paying up, see: Steelers, Saints.

Right now, Rodgers is worth what he is being paid. He is also the MVP and making subtly more than guys that have no right being in his range, and less than guys who are blowing up franchises. 3 years from now he will still be a $20 million QB and worth that. If they extend him with guaranteed money, ultimately they will pay the price.

I believe more than ever that the QB, while the most important position in football, is way overvalued right now. Give me former winning QBs like Bortles, Newton, Flacco, on dirt cheap deals. Give me up and coming QBs like Boyle, Brissett on dirt cheap deals. I'd rather build a winner around them.

Soon Baker will sign a huge extension. Who thinks you can win an Owl with a Mayfield getting $35 million a year?

Seriously, just look at some of these deals. Bridgewater, Tannehill, Garapolo. Who thinks these guys are worth more than the guys I mentioned? As long as guys like Nick Foles are winning Owls in a creative offense I'll take my chances. I'd pay up for Maholmes, Rodgers, maybe Josh Allen soon. I'd pay for an in his prime Brees, or Manning. The rest of them? Forget it.

[Fritz]

Alex, I'll take an Aaron Rodgers restructure for 17 million.

[texaspackerbacker]

OBVIOUSLY, the restructure and max extension is the best move - a win win situation. I don't care if Jordan Love is an above average NFL QB - about the best anybody could ever hope for, the Packers go right into the toilet when/if they let Aaron Rodgers go anywhere before he decides to end his career, which I doubt is less than 7 or 8 years, maybe more.

[Fritz]

Tex wants Rodgers to play until he can collect social security.

[texaspackerbacker]

Damn Right hahahahahaha. I'd be willing to bet that Aaron Rodgers is better 7 or 8 years from now than Brady is now and better than Jordan Love is in 7 or 8 years or maybe all but a handful of the very best QBs, whoever that might be in 7 or 8 years. And if it ain't with the Packers all that time, then Gutekunst needs to get run out of town or worse. I used to think it was about 90/10 Gutekunst gets it done. I guess I'm down to maybe 75/25 now. We'll see, I guess. All the other shit he has done, though, is meaningless if he loses Rodgers, as the team goes right in the toilet.

[Upnorth]

Damn Right hahahahahaha. I'd be willing to bet that Aaron Rodgers is better 7 or 8 years from now than Brady is now and better than Jordan Love is in 7 or 8 years or maybe all but a handful of the very best QBs, whoever that might be in 7 or 8 years. And if it ain't with the Packers all that time, then Gutekunst needs to get run out of town or worse. I used to think it was about 90/10 Gutekunst gets it done. I guess I'm down to maybe 75/25 now. We'll see, I guess. All the other shit he has done, though, is meaningless if he loses Rodgers, as the team goes right in the toilet.

You honestly think Rodgers will be great past year 40? Why is he that special? He has injured both collarbones and his knee. He is finally in a qb friendly system but I have only seen 1 qb play well past 40

[Spaulding]

Although not onboard with the Love pick when it was made and still not keen on it, the action did make sense. Rodgers had been injured prior and no QB on the roster was a justified #2 to keep the ship afloat until Rodgers recovered. Thus any injury to Rodgers more than a game or two likely meant a lost season.

Taking a QB high in the draft was a pretty normal move when it's possible your QB is in the twilight of his career. His three prior years were pretty good but did have two of the three years more towards middle of the QB pack rating wise:

2019 - 81.4
2018 - 89.0
2017 - 79.2

Giving up the extra picks to move up and take Love hurt our options to add a good receiver or other play to the roster. But like TT always felt, you stay true to your board and if they had Love in the top 15 and saw him still available it kind of makes sense. Then again maybe I'm just trying to talk myself into justifying the pick.

Either way though, it's not all bad. The Packers have the potential to have found a successor to Rodgers down the road and if not, hopefully an adequate backup while we still have the MVP. There is also the option that if Rodgers is playing lights out over the next few years that if Love gets much game time (Rodgers injury or mop up) that he shows enough for some other team to offer a high pick for him.

Our history of first round picks the last ten years has been mixed anyways and so regardless of who was taken it might not have helped the team last year or even in coming years. At least with Love there still is some hope he flashes something. Then again the last few drafts which have a strong imprint from Gute are looking pretty good (although they screwed up big time on TJ).

2010 - Bryan Bulaga (good pick when healthy)
2011 - Derek Sherrod (bust due to injuries)
2012 - Nick Perry (average)
2013 - Datone Jones (bust)
2014 - Ha Ha Clinton-Dix (average although one good year)
2015 - Damarious Randall (bust although should have been played at safety)
2016 - Kenny Clark (stud)
2017 - No pick
2018 - Jaire Alexander (stud)
2019 - Rashan Gary (showing flashes and might be really good)
2019 - Darnell Savage Jr. S (showing potential but not there quite yet)
2020 - Jordan Love (has shown nothing so far but didn't have an offseason to learn)

[Upnorth]

Damn Right hahahahahaha. I'd be willing to bet that Aaron Rodgers is better 7 or 8 years from now than Brady is now and better than Jordan Love is in 7 or 8 years or maybe all but a handful of the very best QBs, whoever that might be in 7 or 8 years. And if it ain't with the Packers all that time, then Gutekunst needs to get run out of town or worse. I used to think it was about 90/10 Gutekunst gets it done. I guess I'm down to maybe 75/25 now. We'll see, I guess. All the other shit he has done, though, is meaningless if he loses Rodgers, as the team goes right in the toilet.

Repost sorry

[call_me_ishmael]

I doubt an extension is in the works. I'm thinking they are figuring out how much, if any, of his other bonuses they can convert to a signing bonus to clear some cap space this year. I think Rodgers play has extended his timeline with the Packers until after the 2022 season. If he had played like he did the last couple of years, they may have parted ways after 2021. I think they want to convert enough to give them breathing room on the cap this year--while not hamstringing them if they want to move on after 2022.

If you were Aaron would you help them if they won’t help you though? Not sure I would.

[Sparkey]

If you were Aaron would you help them if they won’t help you though? Not sure I would.

How have the not helped him ?

[call_me_ishmael]

How have the not helped him ?

Sorry, I meant in terms of resigning or extending him. I don't think he has a lot of incentive to help them if it doesn't prevent them from shit-canning him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

If you were Aaron would you help them if they won’t help you though? Not sure I would.

It would help him. He'd get the money now instead of later. Money now is always more valuable than money later. It also protects him in case of injury. If they asked for him to restructure enough, it would virtually guarantee at least two more years with the team.

[Bretsky]

If you were Aaron would you help them if they won’t help you though? Not sure I would.


I think Rodgers thinks he deserves more than this; I think he wants a commitment back.

What HW is suggesting is not what AROD wants IMO based on everything I'm listening too and I do think Wilde and some of the insiders views have some credibility

And I agree that if that is all GB is offering he might not make it so easy

[Sparkey]

It is apparent over the years that Aaron can't do it alone. If they give him a bigger piece of the pie, it guarantees failure.

Let's face it, the more $$$ tied up in one position, the more areas of weakness in other areas. QB contracts are getting to the point of diminishing returns.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Rodgers thinks he deserves more than this; I think he wants a commitment back.

What HW is suggesting is not what AROD wants IMO based on everything I'm listening too and I do think Wilde and some of the insiders views have some credibility

And I agree that if that is all GB is offering he might not make it so easy

It doesn't really matter what he thinks. I know they want to keep the peace, but if he wants to go out like a drama queen (ala Favre), then so be it. The Packers can convert some of his bonuses into a signing bonus to give more cap room this year. That's good for the team and player. The player gets more cash up front. Plus, instead of being guaranteed one more year, it would almost guarantee two more years for him. How big of an ass would you have to be to raise a stink over that?

[texaspackerbacker]

You honestly think Rodgers will be great past year 40? Why is he that special? He has injured both collarbones and his knee. He is finally in a qb friendly system but I have only seen 1 qb play well past 40

Hell Yeah. I see Rodgers as head and shoulders better over his career than Tom Brady. Brady has gone on that long despite being a lot less athletic and able to escape pressure than Rodgers. Anybody can get injured by bad luck at anytime, but the rules these days make it less likely for a QB. And they damn well better not let him finish his career anywhere else.

[Upnorth]

Hell Yeah. I see Rodgers as head and shoulders better over his career than Tom Brady. Brady has gone on that long despite being a lot less athletic and able to escape pressure than Rodgers. Anybody can get injured by bad luck at anytime, but the rules these days make it less likely for a QB. And they damn well better not let him finish his career anywhere else.

While I agree rodgers is better than Brady over their career we have seen Favre and brees and Manning's and rivers and rothlesberger hit the age wall recently. I hope you are right but I don't think you are.

[Sparkey]

For all his greatness in the regular season his play in NFC Championship games is pretty poor. Its down right atrocious if you just look at the 1st half of those NFCCG games. He does a good job of padding stats after the game is pretty much over.

The real GOATS' don't shit the bed in the biggest games.

[texaspackerbacker]

While I agree rodgers is better than Brady over their career we have seen Favre and brees and Manning's and rivers and rothlesberger hit the age wall recently. I hope you are right but I don't think you are.

Favre was pretty damn old when he hit it. I'll give you Brees and Roethlisberger. Rivers maybe - I'm not very familiar with him. Manning, if you mean Eli, was never much good. If you mean Peyton, his late stage deterioration probably had a lot to do with that injury. Anyway, I see Brady as better than any of them (except maybe Peyton), and Rodgers, we agree, is better than Brady. If there is a decline, it is from a higher starting point.

[Fritz]

It is apparent over the years that Aaron can't do it alone. If they give him a bigger piece of the pie, it guarantees failure.

Let's face it, the more $$$ tied up in one position, the more areas of weakness in other areas. QB contracts are getting to the point of diminishing returns.

I have to agree here. If Rodgers really, really wanted more of a supporting cast so he could get that second ring and cement his place in the pantheon of greats, he could restructure to free up cap space in a team-friendly deal. How many $20+ million dollar years does a guy need, anyway? I know the contracts are equated with respect, but Super Bowl championships are another measure. Rodgers has lots and lots of dollars, but only one ring.

[bobblehead]

Although not onboard with the Love pick when it was made and still not keen on it, the action did make sense. Rodgers had been injured prior and no QB on the roster was a justified #2 to keep the ship afloat until Rodgers recovered. Thus any injury to Rodgers more than a game or two likely meant a lost season.

Taking a QB high in the draft was a pretty normal move when it's possible your QB is in the twilight of his career. His three prior years were pretty good but did have two of the three years more towards middle of the QB pack rating wise:

2019 - 81.4
2018 - 89.0
2017 - 79.2

Giving up the extra picks to move up and take Love hurt our options to add a good receiver or other play to the roster. But like TT always felt, you stay true to your board and if they had Love in the top 15 and saw him still available it kind of makes sense. Then again maybe I'm just trying to talk myself into justifying the pick.

Either way though, it's not all bad. The Packers have the potential to have found a successor to Rodgers down the road and if not, hopefully an adequate backup while we still have the MVP. There is also the option that if Rodgers is playing lights out over the next few years that if Love gets much game time (Rodgers injury or mop up) that he shows enough for some other team to offer a high pick for him.

Our history of first round picks the last ten years has been mixed anyways and so regardless of who was taken it might not have helped the team last year or even in coming years. At least with Love there still is some hope he flashes something. Then again the last few drafts which have a strong imprint from Gute are looking pretty good (although they screwed up big time on TJ).

2010 - Bryan Bulaga (good pick when healthy)
2011 - Derek Sherrod (bust due to injuries)
2012 - Nick Perry (average)
2013 - Datone Jones (bust)
2014 - Ha Ha Clinton-Dix (average although one good year)
2015 - Damarious Randall (bust although should have been played at safety)
2016 - Kenny Clark (stud)
2017 - No pick
2018 - Jaire Alexander (stud)
2019 - Rashan Gary (showing flashes and might be really good)
2019 - Darnell Savage Jr. S (showing potential but not there quite yet)
2020 - Jordan Love (has shown nothing so far but didn't have an offseason to learn)

2017 was an epic bust because every poster here wanted to simply draft TJ Watt. Instead we traded the pick for King and Biegel.

[bobblehead]

If you were Aaron would you help them if they won’t help you though? Not sure I would.

Then I would trade him. Options are restructure or lose even more talent in a bloodbath cap cut.

[bobblehead]

I think Rodgers thinks he deserves more than this; I think he wants a commitment back.

What HW is suggesting is not what AROD wants IMO based on everything I'm listening too and I do think Wilde and some of the insiders views have some credibility

And I agree that if that is all GB is offering he might not make it so easy

I repeat. If he refuses this move that harms him not one bit, then its time to move on. He would be forcing the team to cut assets that will help them win...for no reason other than pettiness. I am more convinced than ever that Rodgers isn't so bright or decent. I still recall him on 20/20 being pissed at a stranger for saying "I thought you were a little taller". He doesn't get along with his own family. If you always think EVERYONE else is wrong, its time to look in the mirror.

He is an awesome player, but in consecutive NFCC I have seen him 1) not dive on a fumble. 2) not run for the endzone with a clear path to the 2 yard line.

If he adds to this, refusing to take money upfront for no reason other than being petty....well, I would look for the best deal I could get for him.

edit: Reminds me of Favre not taking the easy 1st down in the NFCC game and throwing a game ending pick. He looked cold and ready to go home.

[bobblehead]

For all his greatness in the regular season his play in NFC Championship games is pretty poor. Its down right atrocious if you just look at the 1st half of those NFCCG games. He does a good job of padding stats after the game is pretty much over.

The real GOATS' don't shit the bed in the biggest games.

I'm both with you and against you. Correct in your assessment. However, he has played some good games and been let down as well. He brought them back in this years NFCC, not just padding stats, but having a shot to win. Then, with game on the line they abandon the run and he refused to put his body on the line. One of those is definitely his call, the other I have no idea about. Mike LaFleur is in NY and I still think its possible we send our second straight HoF QB to the Jets. They have the capital to make it happen, and a good young core...and no more Gase.

[call_me_ishmael]

Then I would trade him. Options are restructure or lose even more talent in a bloodbath cap cut.

Dude won the MVP - the team owes him some commitment and security in my opinion.

[Zool]

Dude won the MVP - the team owes him some commitment and security in my opinion.

Meanwhile Brady just voided and signed a new extension to save the team a pile of cash

[Upnorth]

Dude won the MVP - the team owes him some commitment and security in my opinion.

He is under contract for 3 more years. He was just extended in 2019 for 5 years total. He will be 41 when his contract is over.

[call_me_ishmael]

He is under contract for 3 more years. He was just extended in 2019 for 5 years total. He will be 41 when his contract is over.

The above can be true simultaneously with saying the market has shifted and his contract is out of whack with his value AND the final two years were never meant to be played out, they are essentially voidable years with the intent to either move on or renegotiate.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Brady keeps winning Super Bowls at $25M/year, and Rodgers apparently (according to Bretsky) is clamoring for more than the $35M/year he already is making.

[RashanGary]

Brady keeps winning Super Bowls at $25M/year, and Rodgers apparently (according to Bretsky) is clamoring for more than the $35M/year he already is making.

This is it. A true hero wouldn’t scrape every last dollar from his teammates.

[King Friday]

If Rodgers is asking for more money, trade him. You can't win a title by paying Rodgers more money. Trading him would get you a decent haul in return. After what Brady showed last year, lots of teams would be willing to roll the dice with Rodgers. Rodgers simply has not been able to get this team over the top in the last 6-8 years. I'm not saying it is entirely his fault, but I think his leadership skills do come into question when failures happen over and over.

[Bretsky]

You can give Rodgers more money and extend things out to make sense. That could be good for GB as well as Aaron Rodgers

[Bretsky]

Brady keeps winning Super Bowls at $25M/year, and Rodgers apparently (according to Bretsky) is clamoring for more than the $35M/year he already is making.


Rodgers IMO wants the security of being in GB long term. Did I ever say anything about about over 35MIL ? You are probably right; but I think the main thing AROD wants is a longer term committment. He's been reportedly nicer to the Luvmachine than Favre was to him....but I don't think he likes that pick much more than Favre liked him

[Bretsky]

This weekend will be interesting.

I am of the belief that AJO is good as gone.

But there aren't a ton of teams looking for RB help. Wonder if Miami pays him more than 12/yr

[Bretsky]

A CLIP FROM JS
The problem is if Rodgers is only willing to restructure if the Packers pay him more. Rodgers talked about the uncertainty of the roster after the Packers lost to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the NFC championship game and included himself in that picture.

[call_me_ishmael]

Brady keeps winning Super Bowls at $25M/year, and Rodgers apparently (according to Bretsky) is clamoring for more than the $35M/year he already is making.

Rodgers isn't married to a billionaire, though.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Rodgers isn't married to a billionaire, though.

Rodgers has already earned around $250,000,000 in his career. He's not hurting for cash.

[King Friday]

You can give Rodgers more money and extend things out to make sense. That could be good for GB as well as Aaron Rodgers

Perhaps...but I don't think this is going to provide enough cap space to do anything worthwhile. Rodgers will finish his career with fewer Super Bowl appearances than Favre.

Jones is gone. The pick of Dillon last year basically guaranteed that. RBs typically only have one shot at a mega deal, so Jones will go for max $$$. I can't blame him. His career could end on the first play of next season. Teams who pay top dollar to RBs usually don't get a good return, so I can't blame the Packers either.

[Zool]

Rodgers has already earned around $250,000,000 in his career. He's not hurting for cash.

The State Farm checks have to double that.

[HarveyWallbangers]

A CLIP FROM JS
The problem is if Rodgers is only willing to restructure if the Packers pay him more. Rodgers talked about the uncertainty of the roster after the Packers lost to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the NFC championship game and included himself in that picture.

1) He doesn't have to be willing.
2) He'd be stupid not to let them turn his roster bonus into a signing bonus. He wouldn't just be doing the team a solid. It would be good for him also. That's guaranteed money now over potential money later.

$250,000,000 in his career. If this guy is mad at Packers management, he's a bigger douche bag than late career Favre.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

1) He doesn't have to be willing.
2) He'd be stupid not to let them turn his roster bonus into a signing bonus. He wouldn't just be doing the team a solid. It would be good for him also. That's guaranteed money now over potential money later.

$250,000,000 in his career. If this guy is mad at Packers management, he's a bigger douche bag than late career Favre.

I think, for the most part, money is like power, the more you have, the more you turn into a douche bag and/or the older I get, the more cynical I become..

[smuggler]

The Packers have a pretty good roster, but it probably won't be as good in 2021. That's the way football works.

[Joemailman]

The Packers have a pretty good roster, but it probably won't be as good in 2021. That's the way football works.

I think a lot depends on what they come up with at RT. If they have to move Jenkins there, the interior OL could see a dropoff. But if they can keep Jenkins at LG/C they should be fine there. I think Runyan is real. I think Dillon is a very different type of runner than Aaron Jones, but may be just as productive.

[bobblehead]

Rodgers IMO wants the security of being in GB long term. Did I ever say anything about about over 35MIL ? You are probably right; but I think the main thing AROD wants is a longer term committment. He's been reportedly nicer to the Luvmachine than Favre was to him....but I don't think he likes that pick much more than Favre liked him

They should have tendered Boyle. Then asked Rodgers to tack on 2 years at $25 million each and convert this season to bonus. In the deal we would agree to trade Love before the draft.

[RashanGary]

They should have tendered Boyle. Then asked Rodgers to tack on 2 years at $25 million each and convert this season to bonus. In the deal we would agree to trade Love before the draft.

This is such a good idea. Be like, look man we’ll commit to you. But commit to us back. :lol: He would never. But it’s funny to think about putting the ball in his court. It’s like when favre was big timing the packers and contemplating retirement instead of coming to offseason work. Of course he wanted the teams commitment but he didn’t even want to show up for the offseason work so the commitment back was optional. A great GM will find a great QB. Period. Everyone is replaceable. No one should be big timing their teammates.

[texaspackerbacker]

The Packers have a pretty good roster, but it probably won't be as good in 2021. That's the way football works.

No, that's not automatic. If the team isn't as good, it means the GM isn't doing a good job. Are there gonna be a lot of high priced players sitting at home on Sundays this season because the salary cap went down? Hell no. Smart GMs will figure out a way to make it work. As I have said, as Harvey has said - in great detail, it should be easily doable to keep anybody and everybody worth keeping. Gutekunst has started the process; He needs to get the big 3 restructures done - Rodgers, Z. Smith, and D. Adams - in order to retain Aaron Jones and he should be able to keep Linsley too, although Linsley is probably not gonna make it. It's probably time to ask, WWJD - what would Jerry Jones do?

[texaspackerbacker]

They should have tendered Boyle. Then asked Rodgers to tack on 2 years at $25 million each and convert this season to bonus. In the deal we would agree to trade Love before the draft.

As great as that sounds, for some odd reason, cutting Love and I presume trading him too would mean a $7 million cap hit or something like that.

[Bretsky]

They should have tendered Boyle. Then asked Rodgers to tack on 2 years at $25 million each and convert this season to bonus. In the deal we would agree to trade Love before the draft.


I could see Rodgers being OK with that. Maybe you even throw him 30MIL a year instead of 25

But anybody think Gute would ponder this ?

[Upnorth]

Or he plays out his contract. We don't need him to restructure.

We need adams to restructure. We need to keep him at least 3 more years. Preferably 4

[RashanGary]

Or he plays out his contract. We don't need him to restructure.

We need adams to restructure. We need to keep him at least 3 more years. Preferably 4

I kind of agree with this. Let 12 play out the deal and see where love is at.

[Joemailman]

So people want to keep the undrafted guy who's looked good in some preseason games and trade the 1st round pick before he's had a chance to play in even a preseason game? Weird.

[Teamcheez1]

You can give Rodgers more money and extend things out to make sense. That could be good for GB as well as Aaron Rodgers

I’m not interested in paying Rodgers any more money. He is under contract for three more years. He will make $33, $36, and $25M over the next three years. That is enough. If we extend him, than we can reopen salary discussions.

[Joemailman]

There is no reason to extend Rodgers right now. He has 3 years left on his contract. Tom Brady played on a 2 year contract last year. He won a Super Bowl so they gave him another year. Talks about extending Rodgers should wait until after the 2022 season.

[RashanGary]

There is no reason to extend Rodgers right now. He has 3 years left on his contract. Tom Brady played on a 2 year contract last year. He won a Super Bowl so they gave him another year. Talks about extending Rodgers should wait until after the 2022 season.

Wait one more year for sure. Love is very mobile and made some amazing throws on the run but I watched full games and came away thinking he needs to be more consistent throwing on the move like 12 and 15 are. If he comes into 2021 and shows marked improvement in his skillset, then you let Rodgers contract run out and go to Love. If love isn’t much improved and you don’t like his chances then extend Rodgers. I’d wait one more year before I made any type of decision on the soon to be 40 year old Rodgers.

[RashanGary]

The packers consistently have one of the better OLs and skill groups in football. Some of Rodgers success is team oriented success.

[texaspackerbacker]

No no no. Rodgers' success has very little to do with the O Line. On the other hand, the perception that the Packers have "one of the better OLs" has a LOT to do with Rodgers being so damn good.

Why would people want to get rid of Love and retain Boyle instead? First and foremost, because it was a stupid mistake to draft Love at all. If getting rid of him helps to retain Aaron Rodgers longer term, the dump Love. Trading him, though, I'm thinking is the same as cutting him in the sense that it means a large ($7 or so) cap hit. So I guess we are stuck with him holding the clipboard for another year or two - then trade his ass for whatever we can get or just cut him.

The better question is, why would anybody in their right mind even think about not extending Rodgers for as long as it is possible to do? The team goes right into the toilet when he goes if it is anytime in the foreseeable future.

As for 1 year extensions or whatever, yeah, that sounds like an ok idea when Rodgers reaches age 43 like Brady is now.

[Teamcheez1]

Why would I not extend Rodgers?

1. He will be 38 years old this season.
2. He is under contract for 3 more years.
3. He’s getting paid $69M for the next 2 years, and $25M in the third year. No adjustments need to be made unless he is going to take less money.
4. The odds of him playing at a high level past the age of 41 are extremely unlikely.

I don’t think we need to do anything unless restructuring gains us some advantage. If he surprises me, we can extend like Brady a year at a time at a reduced rate. If he wants more money, the answer is no.

[texaspackerbacker]

That's bullshit. Look at Brady - you seriously think Rodgers won't still be as good or a helluva lot better at age 41 or 43 or 45?

As for the money, that kind of structure - $69 million these two years (if that is accurate) then down to $25 million, it's an unusual progression. Contracts are almost always backloaded with the final year half expected to either never be reached or restructured. I'd like to see a 5 year deal - 2 beyond the current, turn this year's $35 million or so into a $40 million bonus with just a $1 million salary, and pay him $30 million each of the next four years. That would be a cap number of $9 million compared to $34.5 million (again if those numbers are accurate) - a savings of $25.5 million.

[RashanGary]

Why would I not extend Rodgers?

1. He will be 38 years old this season.
2. He is under contract for 3 more years.
3. He’s getting paid $69M for the next 2 years, and $25M in the third year. No adjustments need to be made unless he is going to take less money.
4. The odds of him playing at a high level past the age of 41 are extremely unlikely.

I don’t think we need to do anything unless restructuring gains us some advantage. If he surprises me, we can extend like Brady a year at a time at a reduced rate. If he wants more money, the answer is no.

Pretty much. 12 made 250 million. He's been treated fairly.

[bobblehead]

That's bullshit. Look at Brady - you seriously think Rodgers won't still be as good or a helluva lot better at age 41 or 43 or 45?

As for the money, that kind of structure - $69 million these two years (if that is accurate) then down to $25 million, it's an unusual progression. Contracts are almost always backloaded with the final year half expected to either never be reached or restructured. I'd like to see a 5 year deal - 2 beyond the current, turn this year's $35 million or so into a $40 million bonus with just a $1 million salary, and pay him $30 million each of the next four years. That would be a cap number of $9 million compared to $34.5 million (again if those numbers are accurate) - a savings of $25.5 million.

Brady threw 3 picks at clutch moments against us. Thats all I have to say on how great Brady is still playing.

[bobblehead]

This is such a good idea. Be like, look man we’ll commit to you. But commit to us back. :lol: He would never. But it’s funny to think about putting the ball in his court. It’s like when favre was big timing the packers and contemplating retirement instead of coming to offseason work. Of course he wanted the teams commitment but he didn’t even want to show up for the offseason work so the commitment back was optional. A great GM will find a great QB. Period. Everyone is replaceable. No one should be big timing their teammates.

My prediction. If the Seahawks get a haul for Wilson they will be back in the Owl within 2 seasons. He isn't that great. He is good. He is overpaid. But move on, get a game manager for minimum salary and run the rock. Build that D back to the legion of boom days. Thats how they win.

[bobblehead]

So people want to keep the undrafted guy who's looked good in some preseason games and trade the 1st round pick before he's had a chance to play in even a preseason game? Weird.

Only if it gets Rodgers to restructure for the 2 extra years at $25 million and convert his salary. In a vacuum, no, that's not what I want. With the caveat I provided, yes, Boyle is an adequate backup. The way you cherry pick a point and leave out the important parts, you should slide on over to FYI. You would fit right in with certain posters.

[texaspackerbacker]

Brady threw 3 picks at clutch moments against us. Thats all I have to say on how great Brady is still playing.

No argument there, but Brady always had a different mindset than Rodgers - maybe the primary reason Rodgers is a better QB past, present, and future. Rodgers could be playing at age 50 and not throw picks like what Brady did. Brady did play pretty damn good, though, which many including I did not expect this past season.

[bobblehead]

Why would I not extend Rodgers?

1. He will be 38 years old this season.
2. He is under contract for 3 more years.
3. He’s getting paid $69M for the next 2 years, and $25M in the third year. No adjustments need to be made unless he is going to take less money.
4. The odds of him playing at a high level past the age of 41 are extremely unlikely.

I don’t think we need to do anything unless restructuring gains us some advantage. If he surprises me, we can extend like Brady a year at a time at a reduced rate. If he wants more money, the answer is no.

Why we could restructure.
1) Rodgers just won the MVP.
2) Rodgers even at 41 will likely still be a $25 million a year QB (remember, I didn't advocate giving him more signing bonus or anything silly).
3) Rodgers stays in shape, unlike Favre.
4) In dealing Love in my scenario you could add draft capital back in to improve the team.
5) In adding 2 years and restructuring you free up cap money to improve the team.
6) If he falls off the cliff before the 2 seasons at $25 million kick in you can cut him and take a more modest cap hit and move on.
7) You can ignore his heir apparent for another 2 years with Boyle at backup for minimal money.

[texaspackerbacker]

My prediction. If the Seahawks get a haul for Wilson they will be back in the Owl within 2 seasons. He isn't that great. He is good. He is overpaid. But move on, get a game manager for minimum salary and run the rock. Build that D back to the legion of boom days. Thats how they win.

Wilson may not be Aaron Rodgers, but he made Seattle great. If they lose him without getting somebody great in return, they will not even be a winning team within the next 2 or even 4 or 5 seasons.

[bobblehead]

No argument there, but Brady always had a different mindset than Rodgers - maybe the primary reason Rodgers is a better QB past, present, and future. Rodgers could be playing at age 50 and not throw picks like what Brady did. Brady did play pretty damn good, though, which many including I did not expect this past season.

Maybe the reason that Brady has Rings that won't fit on one hand and Rodgers has one shiny bauble.

[texaspackerbacker]

Maybe because we had Ted Thompson as GM and Belichick or whoever made the decisions at New England built a better supporting cast.

[bobblehead]

Wilson may not be Aaron Rodgers, but he made Seattle great. If they lose him without getting somebody great in return, they will not even be a winning team within the next 2 or even 4 or 5 seasons.

Did he make seattle great? Or did he ride a great roster to an Owl as a game manager.

Russell circa 2013: 257 407 63.1 3,357 8.2 26 9 101.2
Marshawn Lynch...same deal: 301 1,257 4.2 43 12 36 316 8.8
Seattle D....same deal: 8th best DVOA EVER!

[RashanGary]

Love is consistent throwing from a broken pocket off platform. He's consistent from a stable platform. He needs to improve consistency throwing from the run. If he gets a little better in all areas, hes mahommes and Rodgers.

[Fritz]

Maybe because we had Ted Thompson as GM and Belichick or whoever made the decisions at New England built a better supporting cast.

Then Brady left and the great supporting cast couldn't support a mouse's nuts.

[RashanGary]

Love is consistent throwing from a broken pocket off platform. He's consistent from a stable platform. He needs to improve consistency throwing from the run. If he gets a little better in all areas, hes mahommes and Rodgers.

That's why you spend a 1 on him, that and he's a ferocious competitor likely to improve through his grind. They have an A+ prospect in Jordan Love

[RashanGary]

The only player in recent years that showed significantly better arm talent from all platforms was Daniel Jones. That kid is a star!

[Bretsky]

That's why you spend a 1 on him, that and he's a ferocious competitor likely to improve through his grind. They have an A+ prospect in Jordan Love

I've listened to a lot of GB reporters who cover GB so I HAVE TO ASK

WHERE are you getting this "ferocious compeitor" stand from ?????

[Bretsky]

Love is consistent throwing from a broken pocket off platform. He's consistent from a stable platform. He needs to improve consistency throwing from the run. If he gets a little better in all areas, hes mahommes and Rodgers.




This is signature worthy to see if you are right down the road......and you've been right about a lot of shit so I hope you are here too. I'm adding it

[RashanGary]

I've listened to a lot of GB reporters who cover GB so I HAVE TO ASK

WHERE are you getting this "ferocious compeitor" stand from ?????

Watching him play football

[RashanGary]

I watched Love vs LSU (I believe that was the top team he played) and he never gave up. Threw some amazing throws under constant pressure. He's a competitor on tape and high character guy by reputation. 41 year old Rodgers or 24 year old Love..... Wait one.more year, make sure he's what you think he is, but I'm going with the 24 year old if they like his development. Rodgers has three more years. It's just enough time to get him.into his 40s, fully develop Love and then negotiate with Love under the franchise tag after year 5. This can go smoothly.

[RashanGary]

Literally the Packers could develop Love for 4 years, still have him on the 5th year option and then franchise tag him for two years. They have more than enough time to let Rodgers play out his deal AND decide if they want Love long term before they invest long term. It's a really good qb situation.

[RashanGary]

One year early but still in the window of ideal QB transition.

[Bretsky]

[QUOTE=RashanGary;1087580]Watching him play football[/QUOTE


OK: I thought you had more. It could be argued after watching most QB's there are great competitors.

I was listening to Wilde and Tauscher last week and they noted impressions they had from interviews. They prefaced it by saying it's no fair to draw the whole picture since last year they didn't have a ton of interaction with players so it was Zoom interview. But they noted Favre and Rodgers always had a presence in front of the cameras and Love lacked that aura. Again it really doesn't mean a lot as it was just their first impression.

[call_me_ishmael]

I personally think it is far more likely that Jordan Love busts then becomes a star but that's just probability talking.

[Upnorth]

I personally think it is far more likely that Jordan Love busts then becomes a star but that's just probability talking.

He has the perfect environment to succeed. Low pressure while able to develop. Coach who builds a qb friendly system. A team that values stability.

I do think the odds of a bust are higher than a third hof qb but I think the greatest probability is average starting qb.

[Zool]

I personally think it is far more likely that Jordan Love busts then becomes a star but that's just probability talking.

That's definitely the historical math of 1st round players. They have an under 50/50 shot to succeed. Packers have hit on Savage and might have hit on Gary in the same year. Doesn't bode well for the math.

[RashanGary]

I personally think it is far more likely that Jordan Love busts then becomes a star but that's just probability talking.

Wolf tree QBs are better than 50/50 but yeah, the math says something here

[bobblehead]

Love is consistent throwing from a broken pocket off platform. He's consistent from a stable platform. He needs to improve consistency throwing from the run. If he gets a little better in all areas, hes mahommes and Rodgers.

Hope so, but that kind of optimism is too blind for even me.

[bobblehead]

I watched Love vs LSU (I believe that was the top team he played) and he never gave up. Threw some amazing throws under constant pressure. He's a competitor on tape and high character guy by reputation. 41 year old Rodgers or 24 year old Love..... Wait one.more year, make sure he's what you think he is, but I'm going with the 24 year old if they like his development. Rodgers has three more years. It's just enough time to get him.into his 40s, fully develop Love and then negotiate with Love under the franchise tag after year 5. This can go smoothly.

I'll join in a little bit. In McGinns pre draft "scouts say" section one guy said "this guy is the only QB I've ever scouted who will be throwing to more open receivers in the NFL than he was in college". Another said "I don't understand how teams don't have a top 10 grade on this guy. They changed coaching staffs and had zero talent around him in his final year"

[HarveyWallbangers]

They changed coaching staffs and had zero talent around him in his final year"

Yep. They changed coaching staffs and lost 9 of the other 10 starters on offense. They year prior Love looked crazy good and led Utah State to their most wins in school history and their second highest AP ranking (#14, their 1961 team was ranked as high as #10).

[bobblehead]

I personally think it is far more likely that Jordan Love busts then becomes a star but that's just probability talking.

Based on overall NFL averages yes. Based on my faith in Flower and his system and GB's recent history with QBs I would say he is 75/25 to be successful. So, I guess I flip the likely hood around from where you are.

[call_me_ishmael]

Based on overall NFL averages yes. Based on my faith in Flower and his system and GB's recent history with QBs I would say he is 75/25 to be successful. So, I guess I flip the likely hood around from where you are.

What is successful though? Serviceable starter? Pro bowler? I could see him becoming Jared Goff - is that good enough? I personally don't think so.

I don't think it's a total bust at 26 or wherever they picked him if he's Jared Goff but I also think you're in the market for a better QB the moment one becomes available and you can't win a super bowl with that.

[Upnorth]

What is successful though? Serviceable starter? Pro bowler? I could see him becoming Jared Goff - is that good enough? I personally don't think so.

I don't think it's a total bust at 26 or wherever they picked him if he's Jared Goff but I also think you're in the market for a better QB the moment one becomes available and you can't win a super bowl with that.

You can win with Goff. Trent dilfer anyone? Eli Manning? Below average qbs win, they just need a team.

[Joemailman]

You can win with Goff. Trent dilfer anyone? Eli Manning? Below average qbs win, they just need a team.

I don't know if you can win that way now though. Those teams had great defenses and a strong running game. In today's NFL it's increasingly difficult to put together a great defense.

[Zool]

What is successful though? Serviceable starter? Pro bowler? I could see him becoming Jared Goff - is that good enough? I personally don't think so.

I don't think it's a total bust at 26 or wherever they picked him if he's Jared Goff but I also think you're in the market for a better QB the moment one becomes available and you can't win a super bowl with that.

The Bears would gladly take a serviceable QB. We are very spoiled.

[Upnorth]

I don't know if you can win that way now though. Those teams had great defenses and a strong running game. In today's NFL it's increasingly difficult to put together a great defense.

Just ask Tampa.

[call_me_ishmael]

I don't know if you can win that way now though. Those teams had great defenses and a strong running game. In today's NFL it's increasingly difficult to put together a great defense.

In addition to that, I would say while it is possible, it is unlikely. Who normally wins the super bowl? A great QB or a shutdown defense with a journeyman QB. Normally it's a great QB with a great defense.

[bobblehead]

In addition to that, I would say while it is possible, it is unlikely. Who normally wins the super bowl? A great QB or a shutdown defense with a journeyman QB. Normally it's a great QB with a great defense.

I would say 50/50. I would put TB last year in the game manager QB shutdown D category. The Broncos with Manning fit that as well. Denvers 2 wins with an ancient Elway? Dilfer. Young Russell Wilson. The Rams were that team this past season and if Donald stays healthy who knows how that plays out. Nick Foles anyone? Joe Flacco?

So other than the last 10 years where an ancient or subpar QB won the superbowl 6 times..... yea, great QBs win the owl. And of the other 4....Maholmes before his contract kicked in and Brady 3x who always took less money. Just saying.

[Bretsky]

I would say 50/50. I would put TB last year in the game manager QB shutdown D category. The Broncos with Manning fit that as well. Denvers 2 wins with an ancient Elway? Dilfer. Young Russell Wilson. The Rams were that team this past season and if Donald stays healthy who knows how that plays out. Nick Foles anyone? Joe Flacco?

So other than the last 10 years where an ancient or subpar QB won the superbowl 6 times..... yea, great QBs win the owl. And of the other 4....Maholmes before his contract kicked in and Brady 3x who always took less money. Just saying.


WAIT....who are you putting in the game manager mode ?

TB did next to nothing with past QB's and a great D. No way I put Brady there. Russell Wilson...no way either......

Elway ? I can't remember but at least in his 2nd last year he was more than game manger

Manning and Dilfer were obvious. Were any of the others ?

[texaspackerbacker]

The people who like to claim the defense or O Line are so important compared to QB need to take a long look at the Bears compared to the Packers over the past three decades.

[bobblehead]

WAIT....who are you putting in the game manager mode ?

TB did next to nothing with past QB's and a great D. No way I put Brady there. Russell Wilson...no way either......

Elway ? I can't remember but at least in his 2nd last year he was more than game manger

Manning and Dilfer were obvious. Were any of the others ?

Brady threw 3 picks against us and completed under 55% vs. Washington and NO on his way to the bowl. That team was carried by the D and the running game. Brady was a game manager. A very good one, but a game manager. TB added to its D and signed Fournett who suddenly got motivated to be worthy of the top 10 pick that he was. Brady had 2 good TE and 2 elite WR. His LT was a rookie draft pick that played top 5 LT all season.

Conclusion. 1) It wasn't quite the same team that Winston QBed. 2) Winston threw 30 picks, so yea, Brady was better than that....as a game manager.

edit: I'll add one more thing. Brady is brilliant. Much smarter than Rodgers. He transformed the offense the Bucs ran. Arians is a deep route first, underneath second coach. Its part of the reason Winston threw 30 picks. MM was the same way. Rodgers prefers to look deep first.

Brady had no success early running it that way. By the end of the season the Bucs were no longer running the Arians offense, they were running the Brady/McDaniels offense. Look at the run/pass balance they displayed through the playoffs. Look at how much he hit his TEs underneath. He was game managing the shit out of it, and even average QBs can run an offense that way with talent around them and good accuracy.

[bobblehead]

The people who like to claim the defense or O Line are so important compared to QB need to take a long look at the Bears compared to the Packers over the past three decades.

Clearly the Bears are the only test case that matters. We should not look at what happened in the SB when KC lost its Tackles and the NFCC when GB lost Bak.

We also shouldn't look at TB who drafted a LT that played at a Pro Bowl level as a rookie and helped transform that OL.

[RashanGary]

Clearly the Bears are the only test case that matters. We should not look at what happened in the SB when KC lost its Tackles and the NFCC when GB lost Bak.

We also shouldn't look at TB who drafted a LT that played at a Pro Bowl level as a rookie and helped transform that OL.

Wirfs played RT. But yeah, their ol and dl were really good.

[Upnorth]

I want to step into this discussion but bretsky is nailing it. Please carry on.

[Bretsky]

Brady threw 3 picks against us and completed under 55% vs. Washington and NO on his way to the bowl. That team was carried by the D and the running game. Brady was a game manager. A very good one, but a game manager. TB added to its D and signed Fournett who suddenly got motivated to be worthy of the top 10 pick that he was. Brady had 2 good TE and 2 elite WR. His LT was a rookie draft pick that played top 5 LT all season.

Conclusion. 1) It wasn't quite the same team that Winston QBed. 2) Winston threw 30 picks, so yea, Brady was better than that....as a game manager.

edit: I'll add one more thing. Brady is brilliant. Much smarter than Rodgers. He transformed the offense the Bucs ran. Arians is a deep route first, underneath second coach. Its part of the reason Winston threw 30 picks. MM was the same way. Rodgers prefers to look deep first.

Brady had no success early running it that way. By the end of the season the Bucs were no longer running the Arians offense, they were running the Brady/McDaniels offense. Look at the run/pass balance they displayed through the playoffs. Look at how much he hit his TEs underneath. He was game managing the shit out of it, and even average QBs can run an offense that way with talent around them and good accuracy.


Everybody go to YouTube and type in Susan Powers and Scream together...Stop the Insanity


FULL SAMPLE

2020 TOM BRADY----REGUAR SEASON

40 Touchdowns to only 12 picks
4633 Yards
QB Ranking over 100


TOM BRADY PLAYOFFS

16 Touchdowns
4 Interceptions
Just about 300 yards/game---

OH and 381 of those yards were in the Washington game you referenced with negative stats


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur0g-R7ZODY




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDzcRlLDnmo

[Upnorth]

I want to step into this discussion but bretsky is nailing it. Please carry on.

Oh my goodness im sorry bobble head I ment you not bretsky... My bad

[bobblehead]

Bretsky is making some valid points, but I watched a ton of TB games. Brady just wasn't elite all year. He wasn't elite in the playoffs. We should all know by now that throwing for 300 yards doesn't always tell the story. Brees threw multiple picks giving TB the ball back over and over. Washington was QBed by...I don't even remember...Heinecke?? He was scrappy but not good. Brady simply wasn't elite this season, nor has he been for several years. He is still good. Sort of good like other guys can be if they play within an offense and are surrounded by talent. Just imagine if we had run the ball in the 4th quarter like we did ALL SEASON.

As I pointed out, Brady is super smart. He is the coach on the field. He transformed that offense which is why they finished so strong.

I actually lost a bet with a friend when I bet him Brady would throw for 4800 yards this season. Not because I think he is still great, but because If you give Winston the weapons he had, he tossed for 5k. Then add Fournette, and Gronk and an All Pro RT (props, JH, I made that mistake a few times this year and still can't get it to sink in). Of course a pro like Brady can put up stats. Add in an elite D that give him the ball back over and over....Then let them hold Adams and Lazard all game long.

[bobblehead]

I'll add in that I thought Brady's best game of the playoffs was the Owl where he threw for 201 yards. Shows how much I value gaudy stats.