RON WOLF------Admitted Biggest Mistake ?????

[Bretsky]

Was listening to Jason Wilde today and they were going into the history of Barry Alvarez retiring as the WI Badgers Athletic Director and they were discussing biggest regrets.

Barry's biggest regret would be very EZ to guess for those who bleed Cardinal and White.

But then they discussed other GM's and somehow got on Ron Wolf. I had never heard this one; maybe you have. Don't think it's been documented from what I can see.

So seeing what the guesses are

WHAT WAS RON WOLFE'S GREATEST REGRET AS A GM ????????????????

[HarveyWallbangers]

I’m assuming you mean as the GM of the Packers? Maybe hiring Ray Rhodes?

[Bretsky]

I’m assuming you mean as the GM of the Packers? Maybe hiring Ray Rhodes?

You are half right

It was hiring Ray Rhodes "over" ????

[Joemailman]

Andy Reid?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Alvarez’s biggest mistake was not giving me a scholarship, despite the fact that I shut down Darren Charles in a high school game.

[Bretsky]

Andy Reid?



YUP

[Bretsky]

Alvarez’s biggest mistake was not giving me a scholarship, despite the fact that I shut down Darren Charles in a high school game.

Hiring Gary Anderson was Barry's biggest mistake

[red]

i thought he once said that it was not giving favre enough weapons

favre was like keith moon. moon just swung his sticks all over the place so you had to make sure something was there for him to hit. favre threw the ball all over the place, hopefully someone was in the vacinity to go catch it. the more possible targets, the better

[Bretsky]

i thought he once said that it was not giving favre enough weapons

favre was like keith moon. moon just swung his sticks all over the place so you had to make sure something was there for him to hit. favre threw the ball all over the place, hopefully someone was in the vacinity to go catch it. the more possible targets, the better


who is Keith Moon

you mean Warren Moon ?

[Upnorth]

who is Keith Moon

you mean Warren Moon ?

From the sticks I think he means the legendary the who drummer

[red]

who is Keith Moon

you mean Warren Moon ?


https://youtu.be/WT5uAIPFft8

[Upnorth]

Man I wish I had seen them live....

[red]

Man I wish I had seen them live....

you and me both

[call_me_ishmael]

Hiring Gary Anderson was Barry's biggest mistake

Easily. Still so odd nearly 6 years later. Fortunately, he made it right with Chryst.

[bobblehead]

Wolfs biggest mistake was allowing Holmgren to leave over him wanting to be a GM, then retiring 2 seasons later making Mike Sherman GM/Coach. He should have told Holmgren he was retiring very soon and he could transition into the position with Green Bay instead of allowing him to leave and go the Owl with the Seahawks.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Easily. Still so odd nearly 6 years later. Fortunately, he made it right with Chryst.

I ain’t give fucks about the Flagship University’s football program anymore, partly b/c the Flagship U refuses to recruit Black QBs, but mostly b/c, as a burger-flipping loser, watching youths dance in the rye pains me with my bygone youth. That being said, according to Wiki, Wisconsin ain’t won shit under Chryst.

No, winning Brazzers Dot Com bowls ain’t da shit. Da shit is inbred ‘Bama winning the BCS Bowl time and time again.

[bobblehead]

Alvarez’s biggest mistake was not giving me a scholarship, despite the fact that I shut down Darren Charles in a high school game.

I told a story about meeting the luxury automobile, but I have held the story about Alvarez tight to my vest. I met him and asked what his biggest regret was.

"Well bobble, I had a chance to recruit this skinny white CB who shut down Darren Charles once. I looked at him and said to myself "self, a skinny 5'8" white kid ain't gonna cut it in D1" It was a mistake, just like not recruiting black QBs...except for that short kid named Russell who I thought would be a better baseball player"

Direct quote. Take it to the bank. I think Barry is in therapy and rehab for his racial stereotyping ways.

[SudsMcBucky]

I told a story about meeting the luxury automobile, but I have held the story about Alvarez tight to my vest. I met him and asked what his biggest regret was.

"Well bobble, I had a chance to recruit this skinny white CB who shut down Darren Charles once. I looked at him and said to myself "self, a skinny 5'8" white kid ain't gonna cut it in D1" It was a mistake, just like not recruiting black QBs...except for that short kid named Russell who I thought would be a better baseball player"

Direct quote. Take it to the bank. I think Barry is in therapy and rehab for his racial stereotyping ways.

Barry didn't recruit Russell.

[QBME]

you and me both

The good news is I did.
The other news is I have the insides paying for it these days.

[QBME]

And BTW it was maybe the last blast when Pete banged it on a Les Paul before The Stratocaster sponsorship machine took over.

[Upnorth]

I dedicate this tangent to red.

One of the best live preformances I ever saw was ac/DC.
https://youtu.be/crb2EI5eWOo
The biggest disappointment I ever saw was the rolling stones.
https://youtu.be/IcWWloBGpH0
And they were back to back at sarsfest in 2003.

You can see me in the acdc clip. Not up close. My wife was pregnant at home in Saskatchewan. I was away on training at cfb Borden.

She saw me a couple people away from the one girl flashing her boobs.

Yes I was in shit.

[bobblehead]

Barry didn't recruit Russell.

Wasn't he the athletic director? I think he was involved. However I don't really get into college that much, so maybe not.

[SudsMcBucky]

Wasn't he the athletic director? I think he was involved. However I don't really get into college that much, so maybe not.

Yes, he's AD, but that was a Bielema/Chryst recruitment.

[Fritz]

Wolfs biggest mistake was allowing Holmgren to leave over him wanting to be a GM, then retiring 2 seasons later making Mike Sherman GM/Coach. He should have told Holmgren he was retiring very soon and he could transition into the position with Green Bay instead of allowing him to leave and go the Owl with the Seahawks.

No mention of that trade with the Seahawks in 2001?

Ron Wolf traded the 17th overall pick in 2001 with Matt Hasselbeck to the Seahawks for 2001 1st round pick (tenth overall) and 2001 3rd round pick (72nd overall). Seahawks took left guard Steve Hutchinson with that first round pick. Uh, All Pro left guard Steve Hutchinson.

So the Packers give up a guy who would go on to be a rock-solid starting quarterback for many years for the Seahawks, and another guy who became an All-Pro left guard, in exchange for - hold your breath! - Jamaal Fucking Reynolds (and they traded up for him) and Torrance "Clueless" Marshall?

Ron Wolf got raped on that one.

Organizationally, not hiring Reid was probably worse, but this one has to be top-three at least.

[Joemailman]

No mention of that trade with the Seahawks in 2001?

Ron Wolf traded the 17th overall pick in 2001 with Matt Hasselbeck to the Seahawks for 2001 1st round pick (tenth overall) and 2001 3rd round pick (72nd overall). Seahawks took left guard Steve Hutchinson with that first round pick. Uh, All Pro left guard Steve Hutchinson.

So the Packers give up a guy who would go on to be a rock-solid starting quarterback for many years for the Seahawks, and another guy who became an All-Pro left guard, in exchange for - hold your breath! - Jamaal Fucking Reynolds (and they traded up for him) and Torrance "Clueless" Marshall?

Ron Wolf got raped on that one.

Organizationally, not hiring Reid was probably worse, but this one has to be top-three at least.

The trade wasn't the problem. The trade made sense. Hasselbeck wasn't going to start for the Packers. And Wolf wasn't going to trade for Hutchison because he had Wahle and Rivera at Guard. Reynolds, on the other hand, was maybe his biggest draft mistake. Wolf deserves all the credit he gets for reviving the Packers franchise, but he had some major misses with 1st round picks.

[RashanGary]

No mention of that trade with the Seahawks in 2001?

Ron Wolf traded the 17th overall pick in 2001 with Matt Hasselbeck to the Seahawks for 2001 1st round pick (tenth overall) and 2001 3rd round pick (72nd overall). Seahawks took left guard Steve Hutchinson with that first round pick. Uh, All Pro left guard Steve Hutchinson.

So the Packers give up a guy who would go on to be a rock-solid starting quarterback for many years for the Seahawks, and another guy who became an All-Pro left guard, in exchange for - hold your breath! - Jamaal Fucking Reynolds (and they traded up for him) and Torrance "Clueless" Marshall?

Ron Wolf got raped on that one.

Organizationally, not hiring Reid was probably worse, but this one has to be top-three at least.

Oof. GMs, all of them, look like dumb asses in hindsight once or twice. Wolf had some sick blunders. That tops most of TTs or Guteys.

[red]

I dedicate this tangent to red.

One of the best live preformances I ever saw was ac/DC.
https://youtu.be/crb2EI5eWOo
The biggest disappointment I ever saw was the rolling stones.
https://youtu.be/IcWWloBGpH0
And they were back to back at sarsfest in 2003.

You can see me in the acdc clip. Not up close. My wife was pregnant at home in Saskatchewan. I was away on training at cfb Borden.

She saw me a couple people away from the one girl flashing her boobs.

Yes I was in shit.

I would have loved to see ac/dc

I like a ton of stones songs, but I would never go see them live I haven't seen a live video of them yet where they didn't sound like a jr high talent show band. Mick can't sing for shit and richards can't play for shit. I don't know if they were good just because of editing or engineering or if it was a milli vanilli type thing, but they are horrible live

[cheesner]

Oof. GMs, all of them, look like dumb asses in hindsight once or twice. Wolf had some sick blunders. That tops most of TTs or Guteys.
Always thought Wolf should trade 1st and 2nd round picks to get as many 3rd rounders as possible. Then trade up from 4th -6th to get another 3rd. Keep the 7th rounders even if there was only one Donald Driver.

Wolf's 3rd round picks:
Tyrone Williams
Mike McKenzie
Brian Williams
Mike Flannigan
Willie Henderson
Gabe Wilkims
Earl Dotson
Robert Brooks

That's a big part of the SB and a lot of snaps in that crowd.

[Fritz]

The trade wasn't the problem. The trade made sense. Hasselbeck wasn't going to start for the Packers. And Wolf wasn't going to trade for Hutchison because he had Wahle and Rivera at Guard. Reynolds, on the other hand, was maybe his biggest draft mistake. Wolf deserves all the credit he gets for reviving the Packers franchise, but he had some major misses with 1st round picks.

Well, it wasn't the trade, per se, but what he did with the trade. That was zero return on Hasselback and the 17th overall pick.

A stinker. Up there with anything bad TT did, and Wolf is seen as a God around here, while TT I think does not get that much respect.

[Upnorth]

Well, it wasn't the trade, per se, but what he did with the trade. That was zero return on Hasselback and the 17th overall pick.

A stinker. Up there with anything bad TT did, and Wolf is seen as a God around here, while TT I think does not get that much respect.

A ham sandwich is heaven when you are starving and meh when your full. Same sandwich different outcome.
Kinda like me this offseason after back to back 14-3 nfccg years.

[RashanGary]

Always thought Wolf should trade 1st and 2nd round picks to get as many 3rd rounders as possible. Then trade up from 4th -6th to get another 3rd. Keep the 7th rounders even if there was only one Donald Driver.

Wolf's 3rd round picks:
Tyrone Williams
Mike McKenzie
Brian Williams
Mike Flannigan
Willie Henderson
Gabe Wilkims
Earl Dotson
Robert Brooks

That's a big part of the SB and a lot of snaps in that crowd.

Wow, and TT/Gute keep missing in that round. Crazy.

[run pMc]

Wolf did not draft well in R1.
Jamal Reynolds was supposed to be pretty good prospect coming out of college, I still remember a scout in McGinn's writeups saying something like his leverage was so low "he could walk under a duck".

His R1 picks were
Vinnie Clark
Terrell Buckley
Wayne Simmons
Aaron Taylor
Craig Newsome
John Michels
Ross Verba
Vonnie Holiday
Antuan Edwards
Bubba Franks
Jamal Reynolds

Not a lot of Pro Bowls there.

[Joemailman]

Wolf did not draft well in R1.
Jamal Reynolds was supposed to be pretty good prospect coming out of college, I still remember a scout in McGinn's writeups saying something like his leverage was so low "he could walk under a duck".

His R1 picks were
Vinnie Clark
Terrell Buckley
Wayne Simmons
Aaron Taylor
Craig Newsome
John Michels
Ross Verba
Vonnie Holiday
Antuan Edwards
Bubba Franks
Jamal Reynolds

Not a lot of Pro Bowls there.

I agree with your overall point, although Vinnie Clark was not his pick. Clark was drafted in 1991. Wolf was hired by the Packers later in 1991. Had some tough luck with Aaron Taylor and Craig Newsome. They were excellent players who had short careers due to injuries.

[hoosier]

Giving up Hasselbeck and D1.17 for D1.10 and a third seems a little dumb in retrospect. But if you are going to argue that Wolf made as many blunders as TT (maybe he did), you also need to look at the Wolf trades that did pan out and compare those to TT's successes in the trade market. Intuition says that Wolf would come out quite a bit ahead in a trade history comparison. Off the top of my head: giving up a late D1 for Favre, a D2 to Miami for Keith Jackson, Matt LaBounty for Eugene Robinson, and sending the immortal Fred Vinson to those same Seasquawks for Ahman Green. And then there were the anonymous trades that worked out brilliantly, like sending a Glen Milburn to the Bears for a D7 (which became Donald Driver) and sending Dave McCloughan to the Seasquawks (yes, again) for a D6 that became Doug Evans.

[Fritz]

Giving up Hasselbeck and D1.17 for D1.10 and a third seems a little dumb in retrospect. But if you are going to argue that Wolf made as many blunders as TT (maybe he did), you also need to look at the Wolf trades that did pan out and compare those to TT's successes in the trade market. Intuition says that Wolf would come out quite a bit ahead in a trade history comparison. Off the top of my head: giving up a late D1 for Favre, a D2 to Miami for Keith Jackson, Matt LaBounty for Eugene Robinson, and sending the immortal Fred Vinson to those same Seasquawks for Ahman Green. And then there were the anonymous trades that worked out brilliantly, like sending a Glen Milburn to the Bears for a D7 (which became Donald Driver) and sending Dave McCloughan to the Seasquawks (yes, again) for a D6 that became Doug Evans.

Thompson made fourteen trades during his era as GM; the vast majority of those were low-level trades - swapping Samkon Gado for I-don't-remember-who. So I imagine he did probably make fewer trades, and cetainly Ron Wolf made more high-level trades.

Thompson's two best were a future sixth for Ryan Grant, and the third rounder he got for Brett Favre, which he then packaged in the draft to move up into the first and take Clay Matthews.

Most of his low-level trades had little impact for either side.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Meanwhile, all Sherman ever did in Round 1 was draft Pro Bowler J-Walk, white All-Pro “Mike” Nick Barnett and the fastest corner in Packer history in the infamous Ahmad Carroll (4.34 40 at the NFL combine; “Pro Day” times are subjective and therefore Ole Samwise Shields’ reportedly 4.30 ain’t legit).

Chronic porn addiction might be fucking with my short-term memory, but my long-term brain cells appear alright. Back in them good ole days when we all were “young and full of life and full of love,” I recall Harrell saying that he was impressed with Carroll’s extremely thick arms while he was witnessing a camp practice.

No wonder Sherman never once missed the playoffs as GM.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I told a story about meeting the luxury automobile, but I have held the story about Alvarez tight to my vest. I met him and asked what his biggest regret was.

"Well bobble, I had a chance to recruit this skinny white CB who shut down Darren Charles once. I looked at him and said to myself "self, a skinny 5'8" white kid ain't gonna cut it in D1" It was a mistake, just like not recruiting black QBs...except for that short kid named Russell who I thought would be a better baseball player"

Direct quote. Take it to the bank. I think Barry is in therapy and rehab for his racial stereotyping ways.

Remember the game where Joey Harrington and Oregon marched into Camp Randall Stadium and proceeded to burned it down? That lost, by and large, doomed any chance Wisconsin had of playing in the BCS Bowl.

I coulda picked off Harrington multiple times that day. A pick-6 or two. No doubt, Wisconsin woulda won that game with 3 (moi) in the rye.

[Fritz]

Meanwhile, all Sherman ever did in Round 1 was draft Pro Bowler J-Walk, white All-Pro “Mike” Nick Barnett and the fastest corner in Packer history in the infamous Ahmad Carroll (4.34 40 at the NFL combine; “Pro Day” times are subjective and therefore Ole Samwise Shields’ reportedly 4.30 ain’t legit).

Chronic porn addiction might be fucking with my short-term memory, but my long-term brain cells appear alright. Back in them good ole days when we all were “young and full of life and full of love,” I recall Harrell saying that he was impressed with Carroll’s extremely thick arms while he was witnessing a camp practice.

No wonder Sherman never once missed the playoffs as GM.


Ahmad "Grabby Smurf" Carroll was a lousy pick. And Joey Thomas was his second rounder that year.

One good pick Sherman had was Hunter Hillenmeyer, the linebacker. But Coach Sherman did not recognize his talent, and cut him. He went on to have a good career with Da Bears.

[Zool]

Ahmad "Grabby Smurf" Carroll was a lousy pick. And Joey Thomas was his second rounder that year.

One good pick Sherman had was Hunter Hillenmeyer, the linebacker. But Coach Sherman did not recognize his talent, and cut him. He went on to have a good career with Da Bears.

He also drafted BJ Sanders. He would have been better off with Colonel Sanders which, from the looks of him, he single handedly kept in business.

[George Cumby]

Letting Vonnie Holliday go was odd. I don't recall the circumstances but iirc, Holliday had a good, productive career after the Packers.

[run pMc]

Sherman was a decent-to-good coach but a lousy GM.
He angered the football Gods by not going for it on 4th and 1 with Ahman Green (historically a beast in short yardage) and an excellent OL vs. the Iggles.
Woulda likely gotten Favre to the SB and gotten a street named after him.

Joe Johnson, Cletidus Hunt, Ahmad Carroll, Joey Thomas, trading picks for a punter in the 3rd round and not playing him because the immortal UDFA Jon Ryan was better. 'Nuff said.

[Upnorth]

Sherman the GM is a bit of my fear with gute. Had a great team handed to him. Then it went to hell thanks to a combo of drafts and contracts. Gute may have done the same thing. Couple of likely all pros with Jenkins and dillion. Then possibly a bunch of garbage. His fa contracts of smiths are hurting us now in a cap sense like basically every Sherman contract ever. And gute hired Barry........ Just sigh


I think I need some anti depressants after this comparison.

[Joemailman]

Sherman the GM is a bit of my fear with gute. Had a great team handed to him. Then it went to hell thanks to a combo of drafts and contracts. Gute may have done the same thing. Couple of likely all pros with Jenkins and dillion. Then possibly a bunch of garbage. His fa contracts of smiths are hurting us now in a cap sense like basically every Sherman contract ever. And gute hired Barry........ Just sigh


I think I need some anti depressants after this comparison.

The fact that you came up with that comparison proves you need some anti-depressants. Are you really comparing the signings of the Smiths to the signings of Cletidus Hunt and Joe Johnson? The best players Sherman drafted were Aaron Kampman, Nick Barnett and Scott Wells. In 3 years, Gute has already surpassed that with Alexander, Jenkins, Dillon and Gary.

This year the Packers lost 1 starter (albeit a very good one) from a team that has had back to back 13-3 seasons. They have lots of up and coming young talent. What exactly are you so depressed about?

[sharpe1027]

The fact that you came up with that comparison proves you need some anti-depressants. Are you really comparing the signings of the Smiths to the signings of Cletidus Hunt and Joe Johnson? The best players Sherman drafted were Aaron Kampman, Nick Barnett and Scott Wells. In 3 years, Gute has already surpassed that with Alexander, Jenkins, Dillon and Gary.

This year the Packers lost 1 starter (albeit a very good one) from a team that has had back to back 13-3 seasons. They have lots of up and coming young talent. What exactly are you so depressed about?

We want our feelings justified. Please try again and don't let logic get in your way.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Ahmad "Grabby Smurf" Carroll was a lousy pick. And Joey Thomas was his second rounder that year.

One good pick Sherman had was Hunter Hillenmeyer, the linebacker. But Coach Sherman did not recognize his talent, and cut him. He went on to have a good career with Da Bears.

I ain’t sure where you simple-minded, outdoorsy, hill folks do your research, but us sophisticated city rats, we get our facts from this artificial intelligence app called askJeeves.

Facts check, according to Jeeves:

Hillenmeyer was a proud member of the 2003 draft class, not the 2004 class in which ole Carroll was a part of.

Joey Thomas was a 3rd rounder, not 2nd.

The 2004 Carroll draft also include Scott Wells and Corey Williams. Wells was a solid starter for the Pack for many a-years. Williams, a 6th rounder, was good enough to net the Majestic Polar Bear a 2, which the Polar Bear used on the great Brian Brohm.

[run pMc]

I think Gute's had some head-scratching moments, but that hardly makes him unique. TT was famous for it, and Wolf had his moments. I do think Gute > Sherman as GM.

The FA contracts to the Smiths, Turner & Amos were pricey, but that's what happens when you're a 6 win team and you sign another team's players. FA is inherently overpriced. Z has lived up to it so far, surprisingly, and Amos and Turner aren't bad either. Preston has a chance to bounce back.
I would argue the cap shrinking has hurt GB more than these signings, but they certainly don't help.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The signings are about as good as you can expect. The bust rate on FAs is high. None of these guys were complete misses. I’d say hiring Rhodes over Reid was a pretty big mistake by Wolf. MLF was a good hire by Gute.

[Fritz]

I ain’t sure where you simple-minded, outdoorsy, hill folks do your research, but us sophisticated city rats, we get our facts from this artificial intelligence app called askJeeves.

Facts check, according to Jeeves:

Hillenmeyer was a proud member of the 2003 draft class, not the 2004 class in which ole Carroll was a part of.

Joey Thomas was a 3rd rounder, not 2nd.

The 2004 Carroll draft also include Scott Wells and Corey Williams. Wells was a solid starter for the Pack for many a-years. Williams, a 6th rounder, was good enough to net the Majestic Polar Bear a 2, which the Polar Bear used on the great Brian Brohm.

Yes, Joey Thomas was a third rounder. Picked two spots before Green Bay's other third round pick, the mighty Donnell Washington, twelve picks before the immortal third member of that third-round trio, BJ Sander.

Ahmad "Grabby Smurf" Carroll was the 25th overall pick in that draft.Three years in Green Bay, three interceptions, and three-hundred grabbing-the-receiver penalties.

And yes, Hillenmeyer was the year before that. The shrewd talent evaluator that Sherman was, he picked up Hillenmeyer in the fifth round. Unfortunately, Sherman's coach in that same year - the year Hillenmeyer was picked - cut Hillenmeyer, who went on to become a seven-year starter for the Bears.

In his three drafts, Sherman picked up five good players - Walker, Kampman, Hillenmeyer, Barnett, and Wells. His coach cut one of them - Hillenmeyer - in training camp. That leaves Sherman with four good or decent starters in three drafts. Ouch.

He did, though, also draft the mighty Najeh "Laundry Basket" Davenport, and sign pass-rushing monster Joe Johnson while re-signing that key cog, Cletidus Hunt.

That's Bob Quinn level GM-ing right there.

[Bretsky]

Who gets the credit or blame for Joe Barry ? Genuinely curious. Does that fall back to Gooters or MLF ? I defended the decision at the time, and I'll still fall back to HW's often mojo of let's give it time. But the more I read/research...the less I honestly like that hire.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Who gets the credit or blame for Joe Barry ? Genuinely curious. Does that fall back to Gooters or MLF ? I defended the decision at the time, and I'll still fall back to HW's often mojo of let's give it time. But the more I read/research...the less I honestly like that hire.

He had some bad situations. I thought I read where those defenses performed worse in the year before and after Barry was there.

[Guiness]

Letting Vonnie Holliday go was odd. I don't recall the circumstances but iirc, Holliday had a good, productive career after the Packers.

A cap decision I believe, it came down to a choice between him and Cletius Hunt. Obviously the wrong decision was made as he went on to play 15 seasons and Hunt last 2 years with the team after Holliday was gone. I remember marveling that he was still around 10 years after he left the Pack

[Joemailman]

A cap decision I believe, it came down to a choice between him and Cletius Hunt. Obviously the wrong decision was made as he went on to play 15 seasons and Hunt last 2 years with the team after Holliday was gone. I remember marveling that he was still around 10 years after he left the Pack

I remember a little more. They had tried to work out an extension with Holliday in the summer of 2002 but couldn't come to an agreement. Then that season, Hunt had a very good year, the best of his career, while Holliday had an injury-plagued year. Due to cap reasons, they could only afford to sign one of them, and went with the younger, seemingly up and coming player. Seemed like a reasonable decision at the time. Until Hunt showed up at training camp woefully out of shape.

[Upnorth]

He had some bad situations. I thought I read where those defenses performed worse in the year before and after Barry was there.

Looking at dvoa so do with it what you will. Listing year before and after and years as def coodrdinator.
Year. Total dvoa. Pass dvoa. Rush dvoa
Det
2006. 25th. 26th. 23
2007. 30. 26. 29
2008. 31. 31. 32
2009. 30. 31. 16
Was
2014. 28. 32. 8
2015. 21. 20. 20
2016. 25. 23. 24
2017. 12. 7. 31

So fairly underwhelming but no real pattern shown beyond not good.
Def show is generally more variable year to year than o dvoa
I do not think Barry will improve our d.

I don't know how to break down his lb coaching with rams from 2017-2020 beyond looking at the pass vrs rush dvoa and crediting the rush more to lb play, however that has some obvious huge flaws. In each year with rams the rush dvoa was worse and in three years substantially so.

I can't shake the historical badness of the det years. I do not like this hire and think it has potential to end our run. It is gutes single worst decision by a mile imo.

[run pMc]

I can't shake the historical badness of the det years. I do not like this hire and think it has potential to end our run. It is gutes single worst decision by a mile imo.

His record is deeply concerning, but I thought MLF hired Barry, not Gute. I thought it was the HC's decision on who to hire, otherwise the GM might force an unwanted coach onto your team.

There are plenty of decisions that could be Gute's worst -- it feels pretty premature to call this "the single worst decision by a miile" when there hasn't even been a minicamp yet, and we have other candidates like signing Jimmy Graham, drafting Oren Burks, etc. Also -- this year's draft hasn't happened yet, and he is playing a tricky game with Rodgers and his contract.