Who Should Gutey Draft At #29?

[Joemailman]

I've eliminated the following players from the poll who I feel are very likely to be picked before #29. You are welcome to disagree:

Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields, Penei Sewell, DeVonta Smith, Ja'Marr Chase, Kyle Pitts, Rashawn Slater, Jaycee Horn, Gregory Rousseau, Jaylen Waddle, Christian Darrisaw, Azeez Ojulari, Mac Jones, Patrick Surtain, Micah Parsons, Caleb Farley

Poll To Follow

[RashanGary]

OL is a really good bet. It's a deep and strong OL class according to reports.

[Fritz]

In most GMs' worlds, in a deep draft at a position of need, you might wait til later in the draft, knowing you can get quality in the third or fourth round.

In Gutey's world, if it's a deep and strong class at a certain position, AND it appears to be an area of need for the Packers, then he won't draft any offensive linemen at all.

[Upnorth]

There are solid #2 CB in fa. So we will ignore them and get a corner.

Now that i say that it will be ilb.

[Joemailman]

Poll is now up.

[texaspackerbacker]

A poll of what position to take might have been better. I chose the only Corner on the list. D Line takes too long to develop. O Line in the first round is a crapshoot at best. ILB we need, but not enough to use the first round pick. And we absolutely do not need a WR.

[RashanGary]

In most GMs' worlds, in a deep draft at a position of need, you might wait til later in the draft, knowing you can get quality in the third or fourth round.

In Gutey's world, if it's a deep and strong class at a certain position, AND it appears to be an area of need for the Packers, then he won't draft any offensive linemen at all.

Haha, yeah, TT and gutey claim to stick to the board and have been annoyingly stubborn in standing by the philosophy.

[Upnorth]

I went Newsome but he will be gone.

[SudsMcBucky]

If Barmore is still there, which I don't think he will, but that's the one I would take. I'm also disappointed in that there were no QB options for this poll. We could really use one of those w/ our 1st rounder.

[MadtownPacker]

Another QB. Then Rodgers will eclipse last years stats.

[wist43]

I said trade up for a QB...

Trading up for a QB is all about the future, future, future...

And nothing says future more than a QB that will be a transgender, pansexual freak to ensure inclusivity!!!

And of course our new cheer squad!!!


https://youtu.be/E4s5mJQr94E

[Bretsky]

Bateman if he's there; and I like Toney as well. And dam, an ILB that can play would be a revelation

[Jaire]

I went Barmore, but Cosmi would be my pick. Both will likely be gone. There should be a number of real solid picks available. I'd be happy with any. I think it's OL or CB. And Gute I have heard has been going to every top CB's proday personally. So I expect one round one or two. This is the deepest db class I remember.A number of guys I really hope fall to us.

[Fritz]

I went Barmore, but Cosmi would be my pick. Both will likely be gone. There should be a number of real solid picks available. I'd be happy with any. I think it's OL or CB. And Gute I have heard has been going to every top CB's proday personally. So I expect one round one or two. This is the deepest db class I remember.A number of guys I really hope fall to us.

If Barmore is there, and he probably won't be, I'd take him. He looks legit, really legit, and this is an area of extreme need for the Pack. With the DB class being as deep as it appears to be, you can get your corner in round two or even three.

[Joemailman]

If Barmore is there, and he probably won't be, I'd take him. He looks legit, really legit, and this is an area of extreme need for the Pack. With the DB class being as deep as it appears to be, you can get your corner in round two or even three.

Most mock drafts I see have Barmore available when the Packers pick at 29. I'm a bit skeptical. Because he's the best of a relatively weak group of DT's, I think he may get drafted earlier than he should.

[cheesner]

Zaven Collins for me. Although I doubt he is available. Amazing athletically and still is quite large. Can do it all, stuff the run, rush the passer, and defend the pass. Plus, he was a late bloomer. Not highly recruited, he only blossomed as a sophomore. He got better each game. I think he has more untapped potential to grow as a player, more than most. It's not a dire need, but I think it will still make a big impact on our team.

[Joemailman]

Zaven Collins for me. Although I doubt he is available. Amazing athletically and still is quite large. Can do it all, stuff the run, rush the passer, and defend the pass. Plus, he was a late bloomer. Not highly recruited, he only blossomed as a sophomore. He got better each game. I think he has more untapped potential to grow as a player, more than most. It's not a dire need, but I think it will still make a big impact on our team.

He's my favorite defensive player in this draft that the Packers might have a shot at. I think he can play either inside or outside which gives the DC great flexibility.


In eight games, Collins put up 54 tackles, 7.5 tackles for loss, 4.0 sacks, four interceptions, two pass deflections, two forced fumbles, a safety, and a fumble recovery. The Tulsa linebacker also took two of his interceptions back to the end zone and accumulated 156 return yards.

[Upnorth]

After last draft I fully expect no CB to be drafted.

However I did see a mock where Owusu-Koramoah fell to us. He is a ilb who also played slot CB with a fair amount of sucsess (so I have read). Now that would be a great pickup.

[bobblehead]

I voted bateman, although I actually want a big man. Truth is I haven't scouted and I'm a BPA guy all the way. Hopefully one of the OL slips to us in the 1st. I really hope the board coincides with OL/DL 1st 2 picks.

Bottom line though, I think we can work around any perceived weaknesses at this point and draft anything. I said Bateman, cuz I'm kind of enamored with his size/route running.

I have watched some Radunz film. Body and athletically he reminds me of Tretter or maybe a young Wahle. More smooth than violent but they say he plays with a mean streak. He really understands leverage. If they believe Jenkins can be an elite RT (as I do) then Radunz could really shore up the line. The way he moves and understands leverage he would be awesome in a ZBS scheme. I don't think he can play tackle in the NFL with his frame. He lacks the raw size and punch. But elite guards play with great leverage and movement. He has that.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I’d take Newsome or Bateman, but I think they’ll be gone. I think they’ll go OT. Mainly, because end of the 1st seems to be where need matches BPA. I don’t think Mayfield fits for what we want. More likely Radunz, Cosmi, maybe Jenkins. Somebody more athletic than Mayfield.

I think Radunz can play OT. He’s about the same size as Bakh coming out, a little better athlete, not quite as strong but close. Bakh wasn’t a finished product coming out and has gotten stronger. A lot of guys tried bull rushing him at the Senior Bowl and he held his own (practice player of the week). He’s tenacious, plays with good leverage, weaker on top but has a good base, and he mirrored pretty well. I see a versatile guy (aka Jenkins, Turner).

[cheesner]

Newsome's injury history worries me. Generally a player in college who is often injured is not going to suddenly become durable in the pros. Going against players who are faster and bigger in the NFL, injuries become more frequent.

[texaspackerbacker]

I clicked on Newsome, but I tend to agree about the injury worries. I'd rather have Asante Samuel Jr., but we might need to trade up for Newsome and even more so for Samuel or somebody else. I wouldn't mind that, though, if we got somebody who could be plugged in right away as a quality starter at Corner.

[call_me_ishmael]

I like the left tackle from Notre Dame. They tend to make pretty good linemen there. He seems like he could be the next Bryan Bulaga no problem. Maybe not LT athleticism but it sounds like he could be a very good RT. I know nothing about the guy beyond what I've read, though.

[Joemailman]

I like the left tackle from Notre Dame. They tend to make pretty good linemen there. He seems like he could be the next Bryan Bulaga no problem. Maybe not LT athleticism but it sounds like he could be a very good RT. I know nothing about the guy beyond what I've read, though.

I think your analysis of Eichenberg is about right. Most people have him as more of a 2nd round pick, although I don't know he'd still be available when the Packers pick in the 2nd round.

[wthigoot]

Newsome's injury history worries me. Generally a player in college who is often injured is not going to suddenly become durable in the pros. Going against players who are faster and bigger in the NFL, injuries become more frequent.

Agree here and so I selected "Other", thinking that Tyson Campbell, CB, Georgia would be a good alternative. They are about the same size, same 40 time, Campbell has less injury history. Campbell might be moving up so not sure if he is there.

Most of the alternatives are good so I would not trade up or down. They can get a good player without moving. If Campbell is not there then Radunz does look like a good fit.

[cheesner]

Yeah, I'm with you on Tyson Campbell. His teammate, Stokes is pretty good as well, but not sure I would take him at 29. The one I am hoping for is Caleb Farley. How far does his back surgery drop him and can he recover completely? May be an option.

[Joemailman]

Yeah, I'm with you on Tyson Campbell. His teammate, Stokes is pretty good as well, but not sure I would take him at 29. The one I am hoping for is Caleb Farley. How far does his back surgery drop him and can he recover completely? May be an option.

I didn't know about Farley's injury. That must be why I've seen quite a variance in terms of how early he'll be drafted. Draft Network has him listed 7th overall, but one of their guys didn't have him going until pick 37 in a mock draft.

[RashanGary]

3 votes OT
3 votes LB
3 corner
2 WR
2 DT

We’re all over the place this year. Rare deep ILB class, good OL class, good wr class. I’m guessing one of those three spots will be it, just because BPA is more likely to be one of the deep positions.

[RashanGary]

I like the left tackle from Notre Dame. They tend to make pretty good linemen there. He seems like he could be the next Bryan Bulaga no problem. Maybe not LT athleticism but it sounds like he could be a very good RT. I know nothing about the guy beyond what I've read, though.

He is the type that tend to do well in the NFL. Consistent, smart, technically sound, etc.... Most of our good lineman have been that type of player. And yeah, OL does seem to be one of those spots that certain schools train up better than others. Most guys who start right away come from a couple handful of OL factories.

[Jaire]

3 votes OT
3 votes LB
3 corner
2 WR
2 DT

We’re all over the place this year. Rare deep ILB class, good OL class, good wr class. I’m guessing one of those three spots will be it, just because BPA is more likely to be one of the deep positions.

We really need all five spots in my opinion. And this is a pretty good draft for all five (DL is floating under the radar because it's weak at tpp).

Our needs are DL, OT, CB then LB & WR. Of course, an impact DL is always the hardest spot to fill when you draft low. I have two or three I like with Barmore at top now.

[HarveyWallbangers]

We really need all five spots in my opinion. And this is a pretty good draft for all five (DL is floating under the radar because it's weak at tpp).

Our needs are DL, OT, CB then LB & WR. Of course, an impact DL is always the hardest spot to fill when you draft low. I have two or three I like with Barmore at top now.

I think you have the needs properly identified. Who are the other DL that you like for our defense?

[Jaire]

I think you have the needs properly identified. Who are the other DL that you like for our defense?

I'm not real sure what Barry is looking for. Nixon, Milton Williams, Tufele, Tuipulotu.

[Fritz]

I didn't know about Farley's injury. That must be why I've seen quite a variance in terms of how early he'll be drafted. Draft Network has him listed 7th overall, but one of their guys didn't have him going until pick 37 in a mock draft.

I just read a weird article about Farley - the article claimed he would be the #1 corner in the draft if he hadn't had back surgery. Yet in listing his "cons," they focused on the fact that he apparently has very stiff hips, and that he's grabby. Said he's not a real twitchy guy.

That sounds to me like Kevin King, part two. Hurt in college, not a quick-twitch guy. And the guy didn't even play in 2020.

I'd rather have Asante Samuel at 5' 7" with lots of twitch, suddenness, ability to change direction, and good top-end speed.

So, in my expert opinion based upon a single section of one article I read, and having watched zero film, Farley would be a terrible pick.

[Upnorth]

I just read a weird article about Farley - the article claimed he would be the #1 corner in the draft if he hadn't had back surgery. Yet in listing his "cons," they focused on the fact that he apparently has very stiff hips, and that he's grabby. Said he's not a real twitchy guy.

That sounds to me like Kevin King, part two. Hurt in college, not a quick-twitch guy. And the guy didn't even play in 2020.

I'd rather have Asante Samuel at 5' 7" with lots of twitch, suddenness, ability to change direction, and good top-end speed.

So, in my expert opinion based upon a single section of one article I read, and having watched zero film, Farley would be a terrible pick.

Excellent indepth analysis Fritz. We have the same understanding of draft candidates.

[Fritz]

Yes, I always jump on the first thing I read, take it for gospel, and then stop reading anything else about that guy.

Thus my certainty in evaluating these players. And I'm quick too. On the other hand, people like Wist take forever, watching all kinds of film and reading dozens of articles about each player.

[Upnorth]

Yes, I always jump on the first thing I read, take it for gospel, and then stop reading anything else about that guy.

Thus my certainty in evaluating these players. And I'm quick too. On the other hand, people like Wist take forever, watching all kinds of film and reading dozens of articles about each player.

Wait, there's more than one article on a player??? Get out. Do the gms know this?

[RashanGary]

Zaven Collins at 260 jumped 35” and ran 4.67 (let’s call it 4.7)

So he’s about the same speed as Krys Barnes and Blake Martinez but 20 pounds heavier. He’s a really high end athlete. And the write up is that he’s really natural in coverage and an overall playmaker on defense.

We could definitely afford to have Zaven Collins mixed into our defense. He would probably move to OLB in some of the sub defense so you could still get away with playing Barnes on every down.

I’m a fan of Zaven Collins. It would require some creativity from the defensive staff to really get him on the field and best utilize the talent on our current team, but having two legit ILBs would make some of our bigger packages much more effective while also improving some of our sub packages.

[RashanGary]

On passing downs, could easily go

—-Barnes—Amos—
Zaven—————Preston
——Gary—Clark—Z——


Zaven or Preston could drop into coverage, making the defense unpredictable. Or both could drop and you could blitz one or both ILBs. There are just a lot of options when you have guys who can cover or rush, options to be incredibly unpredictable.

[Fritz]

Wait, there's more than one article on a player??? Get out. Do the gms know this?

Matt Millen, Bob Quinn, most Cleveland GM's, and Daniel Snyder (who is the defacto GM in Washington) were not aware of that, no.

[RashanGary]

I wonder if McGinn is doing his draft segment this year? It’s nice to hear all the scouts takes. Even if they’re wrong 70% of the time :lol: The good old unpredictable draft.

[texaspackerbacker]

I saw a mock draft where the Packers top two picks were Corners - Asante Samuel Jr. in the first, and Tyson Campbell in the second. That would be great IMO. Samuel is plug and play right now, and Campbell, they say, is a project, but huge upside.

[RashanGary]

I saw a mock draft where the Packers top two picks were Corners - Asante Samuel Jr. in the first, and Tyson Campbell in the second. That would be great IMO. Samuel is plug and play right now, and Campbell, they say, is a project, but huge upside.

I would rather go OT then corner. A lot of really good corners are found in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. OTs are usually high picks.

[RashanGary]

Based on depth and strength of the draft, assuming we go best player, my guess would be

OT
ILB
WR

After two years of deep receiver drafts, I could see a WR drift into the 3rd round for us. ILB is solid this year and the second round is the end of the upper tier talent. So ILB second. OT is the toughest to find, so grab one early.


Or, because it’s not a deep corner draft, maybe they grab one of them early and then OT/WR/ILB to take advantage of draft depth.

[RashanGary]

Gute has been at every top corners pro day. He might be targeting one too. Never know how this shit will shake out. One thing is certain, it’s not going to go the way we want or expect. That much we can count on every year.

[Fritz]

How true that is.

I will say though that I don't think he's attending all the top corners' pro days as a smokescreen. I wonder if he's going to target two or three as a top tier likely available when they pick, and see how it shakes out - do whatever he has to to get one of them. Seems his M.O.

Unless it is a smokescreen, and he was really going to look at some nobody at some other position that he'll draft in the sixth round...

[Zool]

How true that is.

I will say though that I don't think he's attending all the top corners' pro days as a smokescreen. I wonder if he's going to target two or three as a top tier likely available when they pick, and see how it shakes out - do whatever he has to to get one of them. Seems his M.O.

Unless it is a smokescreen, and he was really going to look at some nobody at some other position that he'll draft in the sixth round...

It could also be that they split out the positional scouting among different members, and he happens to have CB as his focus.

[RashanGary]

It could also be that they split out the positional scouting among different members, and he happens to have CB as his focus.

Don't bring these possibilities to the table. We're trying to connect perfect puzzle pieces so we can predict the future and no matter how horrible we are at it, we like our damn puzzle.

But good point. Never thought of that.

[Joemailman]

Gute said he'd be on the road more this year than in previous years as GM due to here being no combine. I suspect he wants to get an up close look at those players he's considering in the early rounds.

[Sparkey]

CB and OT are the biggest long term needs. The big question is how the draft falls in relation to their board.

[Joemailman]

CB and OT are the biggest long term needs. The big question is how the draft falls in relation to their board.

He won't reach to fill a need. But he might trade up to fill a need as he did with Alexander and Savage.

[RashanGary]

He won't reach to fill a need. But he might trade up to fill a need as he did with Alexander and Savage.

I agree with this. Id sort of hate to trade up. We have a lot of needs.

[wist43]

Of the guys on your list...

I liked Kwity Paye the most so far.

Think Barmore will be gone by #29.

Didn't like Perkins... too stiff, not a natural bender.

And Bolton was okay, but too pedestrian for the 29th pick.

Still looking... just started.

[red]

[QUOTE=RashanGary;1088598. Never know how this shit will shake out. One thing is certain, it’s not going to go the way we want or expect. That much we can count on every year.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely, that's why I try to not even get excited about anyone anymore

[Sparkey]

I don't think any of the dline prospects are worthy of a 1st round pick. Barmore might have all the requisite skills, but he lacks urgency.

The only guy that really interests me is Alim McNeil at the end of the 2nd. GB is pretty much stuck with the same shit as last year along the dline.

[RashanGary]

Of the guys on your list...

I liked Kwity Paye the most so far.

Think Barmore will be gone by #29.

Didn't like Perkins... too stiff, not a natural bender.

And Bolton was okay, but too pedestrian for the 29th pick.

Still looking... just started.

They show every snap of the Alabama ole miss game and circle barmore at the snap. His pass rush is impressive. But he gets flat out moved around in the run game. I could see him lasting till the 2nd round. Jeffrey Simmons a couple years ago dug down and held his ground snap in and snap out of complete games. Barmore gets moved at will in the run game.

Where it gets hard to protect is some guy's bodies are late bloomers. They just start to reach their prime at age 23, 24, 25 and keep getting better in the NFL. Other guys are physically maxed at age 20 and might look better in college but don't improve in the NFL.

Physical development, mental and emotional make up, scheme in college, etc..... There are so many variables, some nearly impossible.to measure. Every GM is garbage because they all fail at drafting the right player 80% of the time.

[RashanGary]

And Barmores pass rush is reckless, he moved gaps to get where he's going. Jeffrey Simmons could.hold his gap and still win a rush lane disciplined pass rush (something needed to succeed with mobile NFL QB's. I just don't see Barmore as a great NFL prospect. You're hoping for a lot of growth. Simmons came on on day 1 and was good for Tennessee, even coming off the knee injury.

[bobblehead]

We really need all five spots in my opinion. And this is a pretty good draft for all five (DL is floating under the radar because it's weak at tpp).

Our needs are DL, OT, CB then LB & WR. Of course, an impact DL is always the hardest spot to fill when you draft low. I have two or three I like with Barmore at top now.

TT had a knack for drafting seniors along the DL. He always figured that it took time to develop those big bodies so it was easier to know what you were getting. He did pretty well with that method, but his best DL pick of all was Clark who was young when we grabbed him.

My honest prediction taking "its gutes" into consideration is that we trade up and take a corner who isn't on our radar. His track record is solid with Jaire, so I won't scream too loud when it happens.

[bobblehead]

Zaven Collins at 260 jumped 35” and ran 4.67 (let’s call it 4.7)

So he’s about the same speed as Krys Barnes and Blake Martinez but 20 pounds heavier. He’s a really high end athlete. And the write up is that he’s really natural in coverage and an overall playmaker on defense.

We could definitely afford to have Zaven Collins mixed into our defense. He would probably move to OLB in some of the sub defense so you could still get away with playing Barnes on every down.

I’m a fan of Zaven Collins. It would require some creativity from the defensive staff to really get him on the field and best utilize the talent on our current team, but having two legit ILBs would make some of our bigger packages much more effective while also improving some of our sub packages.

Collins was an early favorite of mine. He is really versatile and can stay on the field. I was hoping he would be closer to 4.6 flat. Of course, ILB is sort of line RB. You need to have a feel and vision to run stuff. If you run a 4.1 but are a step slow to react your speed won't save you. The good ones see the play develop and scrape the line to fill he hole.

[bobblehead]

CB and OT are the biggest long term needs. The big question is how the draft falls in relation to their board.

DL and ILB are bigger needs. We could re sign taylor and roll with the OL we have and be OK. I want to be great in the trenches though.

[RashanGary]

Collins was an early favorite of mine. He is really versatile and can stay on the field. I was hoping he would be closer to 4.6 flat. Of course, ILB is sort of line RB. You need to have a feel and vision to run stuff. If you run a 4.1 but are a step slow to react your speed won't save you. The good ones see the play develop and scrape the line to fill he hole.

At his size, that's a really good 40. Even at about 240, you're trying to get guys to run about a 4.65. He did it at twenty pounds heavier. He's a first round athlete. Just gotta have tape to match and he's supposed to.

[Bretsky]

I've been doing a lot of these auto drafts on this site and he always goes between pick 25-32. Last year I remember really really liking Justin Jefferson. But on the dam auto draft he was always going about 20. Batemen always goes about 20 this year; seems like a mirror to what I remember from Jefferson last year.

I also remember many years Baltimore always seemed to grab the guy I wanted (including Mosley). I hope they don't need a ILB this year.

Collins really seems like the no brainer ILB for Green Bay who you plug and play for three downs for many years to come. He's the #1 ILB backer we've been asking for to make our other sub par talent guys (we normally have two of them starting) look better.

Which means we won't take him, and good change Gute will trade up, he'll be there, and then he'll draft somebody else....probably a OL.

I have to admit though...grabbing one of the OT's is tempting. I just don't wanna trade up for that.

[RashanGary]

I've been doing a lot of these auto drafts on this site and he always goes between pick 25-32. Last year I remember really really liking Justin Jefferson. But on the dam auto draft he was always going about 20. Batemen always goes about 20 this year; seems like a mirror to what I remember from Jefferson last year.

I also remember many years Baltimore always seemed to grab the guy I wanted (including Mosley). I hope they don't need a ILB this year.

Collins really seems like the no brainer ILB for Green Bay who you plug and play for three downs for many years to come. He's the #1 ILB backer we've been asking for to make our other sub par talent guys (we normally have two of them starting) look better.

Which means we won't take him, and good change Gute will trade up, he'll be there, and then he'll draft somebody else....probably a OL.

I have to admit though...grabbing one of the OT's is tempting. I just don't wanna trade up for that.

I'm crossing my fingers for a plug and play RT. I want Rodgers twilight to he lit up. If we can't get a tackle early, I'm OK with billy Turner at RT, but id like to see a 3rd round guard (high pick for a guard) so at least the interior is sewn up. I think we almost have to take an OL in the first three rounds. And the good thing about that, there is a ton of OL this year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Zaven Collins at 260 jumped 35” and ran 4.67 (let’s call it 4.7)

So he’s about the same speed as Krys Barnes and Blake Martinez but 20 pounds heavier. He’s a really high end athlete. And the write up is that he’s really natural in coverage and an overall playmaker on defense.

These virtual Pro Day times have been too good (I doubt this class is actually the fastest of all-time by far, but that’s what these times are saying), so 4.67 is maybe more like 4.75 and that’s actually a bit concerning. Collins was one of the few guys I watched. He was a hard eval. He mostly played OLB in the game I watched, so it was hard to see if he had sideline to sideline range. I was hoping he’d be a little faster. I’m worried he’s a jack of all trades, master of none.

[MadScientist]

You forgot to put a punter on your list.

[RashanGary]

These virtual Pro Day times have been too good (I doubt this class is actually the fastest of all-time by far, but that’s what these times are saying), so 4.67 is maybe more like 4.75 and that’s actually a bit concerning. Collins was one of the few guys I watched. He was a hard eval. He mostly played OLB in the game I watched, so it was hard to see if he had sideline to sideline range. I was hoping he’d be a little faster. I’m worried he’s a jack of all trades, master of none.

I just finished a game and a half. He looks about blake Martinez fast. He's bigger. I would go late second round.

[texaspackerbacker]

Corner in the first and him in the second would be ideal.

[Spaulding]

For some reason, when I see tape of Zaven Collins all I can think of is Shea McClellin who ended up being a bust with the Bears. Normally I might chalk it up as an organizational or position coach failure for his development but the Bears have done well with LB's and thus guessing he was just over drafted and over hyped.

I'd love to see Barmore fall to us as I think he'll produce quicker at a DT than most players who take a few years and would make our front 7 a threat to where average CB's might be able to get by and where Alexander and a healthy King would dominate.

Beyond that Newsome or Radunz would be great as well as both appear to have high upside and fill a position of need.

[Joemailman]

I've been doing a lot of these auto drafts on this site and he always goes between pick 25-32. Last year I remember really really liking Justin Jefferson. But on the dam auto draft he was always going about 20. Batemen always goes about 20 this year; seems like a mirror to what I remember from Jefferson last year.

I also remember many years Baltimore always seemed to grab the guy I wanted (including Mosley). I hope they don't need a ILB this year.



They drafted Patrick Queen in the 1st round last year. Even though Queen had a shaky rookie year, I doubt very much they'd be drafting an ILB early again. However, WR is considered maybe their biggest need, so they could be eyeing Bateman.

[RashanGary]

I just went and watched 2 games of Zaven Collins and one game of Jamin Davis. Davis is 235 and runs 4.45. Collins is 260 and runs 4.7.

I'm going to say this, Davis is faster and I don't have a lot of experience watching linebackers but one thing that stood out was Collins was very patient, angle oriented, aggressive at the right times and sure of himself. Davis might run faster, but Collins played fast with his decision making and confidence where Davis looked jittery and unsure. I watched Eric kendricks on game pass film session once and he explained how he slows down to play faster, how he waits.to trigger until it's time.to trigger and it speeds him up. Collins had that quality of eliminating false steps.

Maybe Collins is a first round guy. I'd have to watch others to see how that quality compares. But at a glance, Collins with his size, just good enough speed and football skill might be worth a 1st round pick. He looked a touch boring in the sense that he wasn't making highlight reel plays tho. Just sort of making the plays that were there.

[Fritz]

I just went and watched 2 games of Zaven Collins and one game of Jamin Davis. Davis is 235 and runs 4.45. Collins is 260 and runs 4.7.

I'm going to say this, Davis is faster and I don't have a lot of experience watching linebackers but one thing that stood out was Collins was very patient, angle oriented, aggressive at the right times and sure of himself. Davis might run faster, but Collins played fast with his decision making and confidence where Davis looked jittery and unsure. I watched Eric kendricks on game pass film session once and he explained how he slows down to play faster, how he waits.to trigger until it's time.to trigger and it speeds him up. Collins had that quality of eliminating false steps.

Maybe Collins is a first round guy. I'd have to watch others to see how that quality compares. But at a glance, Collins with his size, just good enough speed and football skill might be worth a 1st round pick. He looked a touch boring in the sense that he wasn't making highlight reel plays tho. Just sort of making the plays that were there.

Packers got that guy in the fourth round a few years ago - Blake Martinez. Why would you waste a first round pick on what sounds like an average player?

[texaspackerbacker]

Sounds like a choice between Martinez and Oren Burks hahahaha.

[Joemailman]

Packers got that guy in the fourth round a few years ago - Blake Martinez. Why would you waste a first round pick on what sounds like an average player?

Please. This guy is not Blake Martinez. Blake Martinez ran a 4.71 at 237 pounds. Collins ran a 4.67 at 260 pounds. If a 40 time is all you think that matters, then dismiss Collins. But whether or not Collins is a 1st round pick will depend on whether teams think his size, instincts and versatility (He's big enough to also play edge) make up for a lack of blazing speed. I think it does.

[texaspackerbacker]

I didn't mean to disparage Collins, but I still want a Corner in the first round. Getting Collins in the second, though, maybe even trading up to get him would be a great thing IMO.

[RashanGary]

Please. This guy is not Blake Martinez. Blake Martinez ran a 4.71 at 237 pounds. Collins ran a 4.67 at 260 pounds. If a 40 time is all you think that matters, then dismiss Collins. But whether or not Collins is a 1st round pick will depend on whether teams think his size, instincts and versatility (He's big enough to also play edge) make up for a lack of blazing speed. I think it does.

I watched two full games. If we draft Collins I will not be excited because he doesn't make huge plays (outside of coverage) and the speed of the NFL and quarterbacks will make that a lot tougher. I think we can do better with a 1st round pick. If he ran sub 4.6 and had the instincts, I think he'd translate better to an NFL playmaker.

[RashanGary]

I think Collins is a really good bet to be a long time quality NFL starter like Blake. I would.be excited in the 2nd.round because.he would make us better. But I want a little.more impact.

[Bretsky]

Packers got that guy in the fourth round a few years ago - Blake Martinez. Why would you waste a first round pick on what sounds like an average player?



Did you watch this guy play ????????????

COME ON MAN.................................

[bobblehead]

At his size, that's a really good 40. Even at about 240, you're trying to get guys to run about a 4.65. He did it at twenty pounds heavier. He's a first round athlete. Just gotta have tape to match and he's supposed to.

Yep, but where this team needs the most help is an awesome pursuit LB. That requires a 4.5 40. But like I continue to say, I'm not obsessed with the 40. 10 yard step and instinct mean 10x more to an ILB. Collins has good to very good instincts. He also has versatility that can disrupt an offense. And as you point out...he has elite size for a guy who can play inside or out. But he can't cover a TE or RB out of the backfield and that is our biggest need. That is why I have come off him as a favorite for this team right now. However, should he be the BPA, grab him and don't even hesitate.

[bobblehead]

These virtual Pro Day times have been too good (I doubt this class is actually the fastest of all-time by far, but that’s what these times are saying), so 4.67 is maybe more like 4.75 and that’s actually a bit concerning. Collins was one of the few guys I watched. He was a hard eval. He mostly played OLB in the game I watched, so it was hard to see if he had sideline to sideline range. I was hoping he’d be a little faster. I’m worried he’s a jack of all trades, master of none.

Yes, this. He scrapes the line well, but he isn't pure pursuit. He covers ok, but isn't all over quick RBs and he probably runs into trouble if a TE stretches him upfield. I like the talent, but its just now what this team needs right now.

[HarveyWallbangers]

What I've seen of Collins, he reminds me of Leighton Vander Esch. I was big on Vander Esch, but he's been a disappointment since his rookie year. Not sure that would solve our coverage issues. Maybe somebody like Cox in the 2nd or 3rd round might be better value for what we are looking for. I wouldn't be disappointed with Collins. I watched two games. He had a knack for knocking down passes at the LOS. However, he mostly played outside and the only plays he made were when he was unblocked. However, he looked fluid for a big guy and you can tell his has good instincts.

[Joemailman]

Vander Esch looked very promising as a rookie, but has been plagued by injuries the last 2 years. I wouldn't be concerned by that comparison unless you think a guy that tall can't play inside without getting hurt.

[RashanGary]

What I've seen of Collins, he reminds me of Leighton Vander Esch. I was big on Vander Esch, but he's been a disappointment since his rookie year. Not sure that would solve our coverage issues. Maybe somebody like Cox in the 2nd or 3rd round might be better value for what we are looking for. I wouldn't be disappointed with Collins. I watched two games. He had a knack for knocking down passes at the LOS. However, he mostly played outside and the only plays he made were when he was unblocked. However, he looked fluid for a big guy and you can tell his has good instincts.

That's what I saw too. A really good bet to be a solid long time starter. I didn't see a violent play maker tho. With a first round pick, I want to be excited and I'm not really by Collins.

[RashanGary]

I watched zaven collins, jabril Cox and chazz surratt. I like all three in.the second round to be quality long time starters. I do not like Jamin Davis.

The three are really solid guys who play smart and are just fast enough

[RashanGary]

My guy right now is Jalen mayfield. I watched some Ohio state tape from 2019 and he has that dancing bear kick step like all of our great tackles have. He plays with a good feel, especially for only having 19 or whatever it is college games under his belt. I think he’s a plug and play 10 year guy out there and solidifies Rodgers offensive line for the twilight of his career.

[RashanGary]

The other thing is, mayfield is a pass pro specialist first and decent in run game. With 12, pass pro always has to be first. I have a feeling he’ll go before us tho

[Upnorth]

My guy right now is Jalen mayfield. I watched some Ohio state tape from 2019 and he has that dancing bear kick step like all of our great tackles have. He plays with a good feel, especially for only having 19 or whatever it is college games under his belt. I think he’s a plug and play 10 year guy out there and solidifies Rodgers offensive line for the twilight of his career.

If this is an accurate statement he would be a no brainer if he falls to us. Even after 12 goes the oline is important.
If there is no plug and play tackle in the 1st we should go CB.

[texaspackerbacker]

Rodgers has never had or needed top quality pass protection. He thrives with his mobility. Besides, there's a rumor LaFleur likes the running game hahahaha.

I doubt Mayfield can play Corner - which is what we really need in the first round.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Vander Esch looked very promising as a rookie, but has been plagued by injuries the last 2 years. I wouldn't be concerned by that comparison unless you think a guy that tall can't play inside without getting hurt.

He really didn’t play that well before the injuries, but I think he’ll still be good—just not Urlacher and Kuechly good (which I thought he had a chance to be when he was drafted).

[HarveyWallbangers]

My guy right now is Jalen mayfield. I watched some Ohio state tape from 2019 and he has that dancing bear kick step like all of our great tackles have. He plays with a good feel, especially for only having 19 or whatever it is college games under his belt. I think he’s a plug and play 10 year guy out there and solidifies Rodgers offensive line for the twilight of his career.

Didn’t he test poorly? If so, you can probably scratch him from our OT board. The guys at the end of the 1st or early 2nd that I’m looking at are Eichenburg, Jenkins, Radunz, and Cosmi.

[RashanGary]

Didn’t he test poorly? If so, you can probably scratch him from our OT board. The guys at the end of the 1st or early 2nd that I’m looking at are Eichenburg, Jenkins, Radunz, and Cosmi.

I've started to notice some guys are late bloomers. Bakhtiari was a small guy his freshman year, but he developed late and kept getting better. Mayfield is like that, 245 his freshman year and developed a little later. Those guys sometimes fill out their athletic profile late. I'm still on mayfield because of the tape and late bloomer upside.

[RashanGary]

I watched the Notre Dame kid, Liam Eichenberg, Teven Jenkins and Mayfield. I like mayfield most. He hunkers down most naturally in his pass sets. The other two are lungers and lose with that in spurts.

[RashanGary]

I think all three have a chance but Mayfield to me is a really high end OT with his balance and technique and I think he has that “late bloomer” upside where he’ll keep getting better in the NFL for a couple years.


After year's and years of following the draft now, some guys are great that you don't expect (bakhtiari) and other guys flop that you expected to be great. Bakh was tiny entering college. I saw freshman pics and he was like 240 by the looks. Some guys hit their growth spurts sooner and are almost full sized by freshman year. And they max out by junior or senior year. So many variables go in. So damn many. Mayfield gained weight fast in college but I’ll bet it takes some time to really max out his frame.

[Joemailman]

Eichelberg is rated by some as more of a 2nd round pick. A plug and play guy who might have to play RT in the NFL. Might be better than Mayfield on Day 1, but have less upside. I've seen some mock drafts that would have Eichelberg available when the Packers pick in he 2nd round. That would be sweet.

[RashanGary]

Eichelberg is rated by some as more of a 2nd round pick. A plug and play guy who might have to play RT in the NFL. Might be better than Mayfield on Day 1, but have less upside. I've seen some mock drafts that would have Eichelberg available when the Packers pick in he 2nd round. That would be sweet.

Who you like in round 1 so far?

I’m definitely not opposed to a second round tackle. I just think OTs are usually filled with early picks and I want Rodgers upright because he has a full cast of returning chemistry skill players and the offense could be elite again if the OL is solved.

[RashanGary]

One thing the packers have going is some decent stability in the personnel department for the first time in a while. They should have their process down and really be into the details this year. I’m hoping for a home run draft to make 2021 feel optimistic.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Eichelberg is rated by some as more of a 2nd round pick. A plug and play guy who might have to play RT in the NFL. Might be better than Mayfield on Day 1, but have less upside. I've seen some mock drafts that would have Eichelberg available when the Packers pick in he 2nd round. That would be sweet.

The OT rankings are all over the map, but I've read some that are really high on him. I haven't watched much film. I tend to know what the Packers want out of an OT and have ruled some guys out because of it. Mayfield had 5.31 in the 40, 4.91 in the shuttle, and 7.86 in the 3 cone (and this was in a Pro Day environment--which tends to be better than scouting combine numbers). The Packers have not drafted an OT with a 40 above 5.2 in the the years I've been tracking. I started keeping track in 2008 with Breno Giacomini. Only one guy they've drafted (Jamon Meredith) had worse 3 cone and shuttle. He was drafted back in 2009. Since then, the max has been 4.75 in the shuttle (Bryan Bulaga) and 7.71 in the 3 cone (Andrew Darko).

Eichenburg = didn't run the 40, 4.57 in shuttle, 7.53 in 3 cone (26.5" vertical, 105" broad jump)
Radunz = 5.11 in 40, 4.53 in shuttle, 7.27 in 3 cone (33" vertical, 112" broad jump)
Jenkins = 5.01 in 40, 4.66 in shuttle, 7.72 in 3 cone (32.5" vertical, 106" broad jump)
Mayfield = 5.31 in 40, 4.91 in shuttle, 7.86 in 3 cone (28.5" vertical, 96" broad jump)

Eichenberg's arm length is a concern though. Might be RT only because of that. Mayfield's numbers don't match the Packers baseline.

[RashanGary]

I can’t argue with that detail, Harvey.

[RashanGary]

http://www.ravenspr.com/coaches_personnel_bios/MILT_HENDRICKSON.pdf

Milt Hendrickson is Gutes second in command. He was the former Midwest scout for Baltimore and OL specialist. He’s been with the Packers for 2 or three years now and was very likely involved in the Elgton Jenkins selection. The Packers are historically good at drafting OL and have now added another high ranking OL guy to the mix. I’m going to feel good about any OL selection the Packers might make with a higher pick.

[RashanGary]

I also wonder if Hendrickson brought with him some other beneficial scouting processes from one of the best draft and develop departments in the league. Maybe a little blending of philosophies by taking the best of both worlds would be good for Green Bay, which has largely been self evolving with decades of self developed scouts. I just keep hoping for a home run draft, the kind that puts us over the top!

[Joemailman]

Who you like in round 1 so far?

I’m definitely not opposed to a second round tackle. I just think OTs are usually filled with early picks and I want Rodgers upright because he has a full cast of returning chemistry skill players and the offense could be elite again if the OL is solved.

Well, I voted for Teven Jenkins in the poll. Looks like his Pro Day was pretty good.


Highlights of the event included the overall performance of projected first-round draft pick Teven Jenkins, plus standout marks from number of other Cowboys.

A versatile and athletic tackle with outstanding footwork and a nasty streak to him, Jenkins commanded attention in the weight room when he posted 36 reps of 225 pounds in the bench press. That mark would have ranked third among all participants, regardless of position, at the 2020 NFL Combine.

Other impressive numbers from Jenkins Thursday included a 4.96 in the 40-yard dash, a 7.72 in the L-drill, a 4.66 in the 20-yard shuttle and a 32.5 inch vertical leap.

[Joemailman]

My darkhorse is Trevon Moehrig. There was an article on JSO today about Savage maybe being a good fit at the Star position. Something I've been pushing for a while.

[RashanGary]

The ILB I like is Pete Werner from Ohio State. He has explosive pop when he runs into anybody trying to block him. He’s fast. Looks about Eric Kendricks fast to me. He looked OK in coverage. Made a lot of plays behind the line of scrimmage and ran down some impressive angles.

Werner and Collins both looked good. Collins played really patient and smart, but lacked the high impact explosiveness you’d like if you’re taking a guy in the first round. Werner just had more wow to him.


Wist, take a look at Pete Werner, tell me what you think.

[RashanGary]

My darkhorse is Trevon Moehrig. There was an article on JSO today about Savage maybe being a good fit at the Star position. Something I've been pushing for a while.

Amos is also 220lbs. Amos can slide into the nickel backer spot quite a bit. I’m a big believer in safety play in today’s passing NFL. Moehrig is a guy I’d like too because we need a pure free safety and Savage does seem better up around the line of scrimmage more.

[RashanGary]

My guys so far are

Mayfield from Michigan. He put on 80 pounds in three years at Michigan because he came in at 245. Obviously coming in that light, and gaining so fast, he needs a little more time to reach his full athletic profile. His tape was really impressive. Smart, consistent kid.

And

Pete Werner from Ohio State. I like his speed, explosiveness and pop. He can do everything AND make big plays. He didn’t look quite as natural as Collins, but higher ceiling and more of a killer. Maybe Eric Kendricks kind of physical game. Reminded me of a poor mans devin white with speed and a love for smashing into people

[RashanGary]

Joemailman, go watch moering against West Virginia tape on YouTube. It was really bad. He was missing tackles and getting absolutely chewed up in the pass game. It was an “if Kevin king played safety” sort of tape. I can’t be down for that.

[RashanGary]

Guys I like

Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah
Jalen Mayfield
Pete Werner

[Joemailman]

Joemailman, go watch moering against West Virginia tape on YouTube. It was really bad. He was missing tackles and getting absolutely chewed up in the pass game. It was an “if Kevin king played safety” sort of tape. I can’t be down for that.

He has some holes in his game, but he's considered a 1st round prospect for a reason.

Positives: Two-year starting safety who was also a dominant special teams player for TCU. Tough, instinctive safety who displays solid ball skills. Takes proper angles to the action, displays a closing burst, and works hard defending the pass. Quick and fluid pedaling in reverse, immediately reads and diagnoses plays, and physically outmuscles receivers to defend passes.

Keeps the action in front of him, displays good awareness in coverage, and works hard. Stays with receivers laterally on crossing patterns. Solid run defender who slides off blocks and makes plays on the ball handler. Willingly takes on bigger opponents and drives through tackles.

Negatives: Gets too amped up, overcommits and occasionally gets caught out of position. Must improve his playing balance. Lacks deep speed.

Analysis: Moehrig was productive for TCU in a variety of ways and has the size as well as skill to line up as a zone or strong safety. He must polish his game, yet Moehrig has enough ability to see significant action as a rookie in the NFL.

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on one bad game. Would you evaluate Aaron Rodgers' season last year based solely on the first Tampa Bay game?

[RashanGary]

He has some holes in his game, but he's considered a 1st round prospect for a reason.


I wouldn't put too much emphasis on one bad game. Would you evaluate Aaron Rodgers' season last year based solely on the first Tampa Bay game?

True. I don’t have time or desire to watch more than a game or two of guys. My stuff I limited. But since I actually watched a handful of these guys for a full game imma put together my limited list of guys that I like off of it. Doesn’t mean it’s accurate, definitely probably less accurate than GMs who still miss half the time on early picks.

[Bretsky]

BIG TIME ARTICLE IN JS ONLINE ON ZAVEN COLLINS TODAY; the type that will fire up Packer Nation and set us up for getting a knife through our hear like we do every year when passling the ILB

Final PART

Pro Football Focus analysis: Collins was PFF’s highest-graded off-ball linebacker by a full three grading points, with his 91.1 overall grade being the only mark to eclipse 90.0 at the position in the country. He’s a dynamic athlete who projects perfectly for the modern game. His 93.7 coverage grade was the best in the country by a decent margin, as well. Collins managed to generate 16 pressures on just 51 pass-rush snaps, using his quickness and burst to get into the backfield in a hurry.

[wist43]

I would take Koramoah over Collins at this point... have to look at Collins some more, but in terms of speed, explosion, versatility, and football IQ, I like Koramoah a lot.

Finding it hard to to get excited about the draft and season though b/c of the Berry hire. That just looks like a big 'ol torpedo amid ships.

If it weren't for Berry and the likelihood that Gute won't come out of the draft with a better team in 2021 than he did going in... I think our fate will be similar to the last 2 seasons.

We desperately need DL help and WR help... doubt we get either in the draft.

[RashanGary]

I would take Koramoah over Collins at this point... have to look at Collins some more, but in terms of speed, explosion, versatility, and football IQ, I like Koramoah a lot.

Finding it hard to to get excited about the draft and season though b/c of the Berry hire. That just looks like a big 'ol torpedo amid ships.

If it weren't for Berry and the likelihood that Gute won't come out of the draft with a better team in 2021 than he did going in... I think our fate will be similar to the last 2 seasons.

We desperately need DL help and WR help... doubt we get either in the draft.

I saw that too. I thought both players looked confident and sure and flowed naturally to the ball. Neither guy took false steps. Owusu-Koramoah just did it a lot faster and with more impact once he got there. I like both but ones a playmaker and the other looked like just a solid guy.

[RashanGary]

Wist, check out Pete Werner. I thought he looked like a high impact dude for Ohio State. Has some thump and speed and uses both.

[Bretsky]

I saw that too. I thought both players looked confident and sure and flowed naturally to the ball. Neither guy took false steps. Owusu-Koramoah just did it a lot faster and with more impact once he got there. I like both but ones a playmaker and the other looked like just a solid guy.. Was the one returning interceptions to the house the solid guy or the playmaker ? When he rushes the qb number sway better as well

[Bretsky]

Wist, check out Pete Werner. I thought he looked like a high impact dude for Ohio State. Has some thump and speed and uses both.

Ask Harvey about the Buckeyes as he is the resident OSU lover

[Bretsky]

I saw that too. I thought both players looked confident and sure and flowed naturally to the ball. Neither guy took false steps. Owusu-Koramoah just did it a lot faster and with more impact once he got there. I like both but ones a playmaker and the other looked like just a solid guy.


Not going to argue that high though; Koramoah is really really good and he has a nasty streak that I do love. I do like Collins slightly better but to be honest I'd be elated if Gutebag valued the ILB enough to take either.

[Bretsky]

INTERESTING COMMENTS ON BOTH

2. JEREMIAH OWUSU-KORAMOAH, NOTRE DAME
JOK is a decidedly different type of linebacker than Parsons. In fact, it wouldn’t be surprising if NFL teams evaluated the 215-pounder as a safety in their defenses because the position he played at Notre Dame was more akin to slot corner in the NFL than anything else. He played the overhang spot for the Irish, which meant he often had to run with slot receivers down the field. Even still, he earned coverage grades of 77.2 (2019) and 82.3 (2020) the past two seasons.

That level of coverage prowess puts him this high on the list. He boasts lightning short-area quicks and explodes into contact with an uncoachable ferocity.

Similar to Isaiah Simmons last year, JOK won’t be a plug-and-play Mike linebacker between the tackles. What he is, though, is a defense’s answer to a modern offense. His flexibility could be invaluable to a creative defensive coordinator.

[Bretsky]

Collins may not be for everyone. Not every team needs a 6-foot-4, 260-pound horse galloping in the middle of their defense. Teams that want to take advantage of his wingspan and blitzing ability will likely fall in love, though.

Collins looked like an adult playing against kids at times on tape this past year at Tulsa. His sheer physical prowess stood out like a sore thumb. He earned a 91.1 overall grade, including a 90.6 mark as a pass-rusher and 93.7 grade in coverage. While he’s not going to be your “space” linebacker, Collins has a skill set you won't find later in the draft.

[Bretsky]

9. PETE WERNER, OHIO STATE
Werner has been a mainstay for the past three years in Ohio State's defense. He has the ideal NFL body type for the position that can hold up between the tackle with ease. While Werner possesses no singular elite trait, his biggest selling point is that he can execute pretty much any role without being a liability.

You won't have to protect him with scheme in coverage or worry about him taking on blocks in the run game. That has value to defensive coordinators.

[bobblehead]

BIG TIME ARTICLE IN JS ONLINE ON ZAVEN COLLINS TODAY; the type that will fire up Packer Nation and set us up for getting a knife through our hear like we do every year when passling the ILB

Final PART

Pro Football Focus analysis: Collins was PFF’s highest-graded off-ball linebacker by a full three grading points, with his 91.1 overall grade being the only mark to eclipse 90.0 at the position in the country. He’s a dynamic athlete who projects perfectly for the modern game. His 93.7 coverage grade was the best in the country by a decent margin, as well. Collins managed to generate 16 pressures on just 51 pass-rush snaps, using his quickness and burst to get into the backfield in a hurry.

I am guessing Collins was only asked to cover in zone. Not that I'm complaining about using a player to his strengths. He has decent instincts so he probably is good at falling into his zone and filling throwing lanes. He just doesn't strike me as a solid cover guy from what I have seen. If I'm wrong and he can actually get on RBs and stick to them, I would LOVE a LB like that. The last one we had was in love with sacks and fat mike never insisted he be played at ILB where he could have been a truly impact player in the Patrick Willis mode.

[bobblehead]

I would take Koramoah over Collins at this point... have to look at Collins some more, but in terms of speed, explosion, versatility, and football IQ, I like Koramoah a lot.

Finding it hard to to get excited about the draft and season though b/c of the Berry hire. That just looks like a big 'ol torpedo amid ships.

If it weren't for Berry and the likelihood that Gute won't come out of the draft with a better team in 2021 than he did going in... I think our fate will be similar to the last 2 seasons.

We desperately need DL help and WR help... doubt we get either in the draft.

I'm with you wist, but if I could try to offer some sunshine. The NFL is a game of ebb and flow. Small undersized pursuit LBs get met with smash mouth running becoming a thing again. Blitz happy D's the destroy route running get beat with draw happy scat backs. If Berry just ran the wrong D for his time (which happens a lot, as we kept hiring guys whose time had passed) he might be the actual right guy for this current NFL. Of course in the current NFL you NEED a cover ILB if you run a 3-4.

edit: After reading further down and seeing what Bretsky wrote, I think JOK seems more of a fit to what I am talking about.

[HarveyWallbangers]

If it weren't for Berry and the likelihood that Gute won't come out of the draft with a better team in 2021 than he did going in... I think our fate will be similar to the last 2 seasons.

:):bang:

You mean having a team talented enough to win the Super Bowl, but whose best players let them down? Except Jaire and Bakh (who was injured).

Personally, I'll take that every year. Maybe Rodgers can finally have another playoff game like in 2010.

[wist43]

:):bang:

You mean having a team talented enough to win the Super Bowl, but whose best players let them down? Except Jaire and Bakh (who was injured).

Personally, I'll take that every year. Maybe Rodgers can finally have another playoff game like in 2010.

Even with our deficiencies I think we should have won it last year... so I agree.

Also, with our deficiencies... we should win it this year!!!

That said, Berry is a huge gamble with all kinds of red flags; and, Rodgers is prone to choking. That is, we need to drive the ball down the field making efficient, smart football plays - and Rodgers goes into full panic mode and starts heaving the ball downfield with a very low percentage chance of success. He isn't cool under pressure.

Will Lefluer learn from what he's seen these first 2 years, and truly get Rodgers under control?? If he doesn't we won't win another championship with Rodgers under center.

As for the draft, Gute won't do anything out of necessity... so we're pretty much assured of not getting any on-field help this year from the draft.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I still think my guy could be the surprise pick. He's tailor made for the MLF offense.

https://primetimesportstalk.com/2021/03/07/2021-nfl-draft-scouting-report-dillon-radunz/


Don’t be surprised when there are two names from North Dakota State called on Thursday, April 29. Radunz is in the conversation as a top-five tackle in the class, along with Jalen Mayfield, Samuel Cosmi, Alex Leatherwood, and many others. He can play in any scheme, but if he gets in a power or zone-run scheme, watch out. Radunz will plow through defenders and run them into the ground. Whoever gets him in the back-end of the first round or early second round will have a tackle they can rely on for years to come.

https://steelersdepot.com/2021/03/2021-nfl-draft-player-profiles-north-dakota-state-ot-dillon-radunz/

He looks like Bakh on Aaron Jones TD run on the video from the Senior Bowl from that page. :)

[RashanGary]

I still think my guy could be the surprise pick. He's tailor made for the MLF offense.

https://primetimesportstalk.com/2021/03/07/2021-nfl-draft-scouting-report-dillon-radunz/

https://steelersdepot.com/2021/03/2021-nfl-draft-player-profiles-north-dakota-state-ot-dillon-radunz/

He looks like Bakh on Aaron Jones TD run on the video from the Senior Bowl from that page. :)




OL tend to come from OL factories in the early rounds. There is always big risk in taking a smaller school guy. Plenty of them pan out, but usually in rounds 2-4. Bakh should have been a first round pick in 2014 but there are reasons the small school guys slip.

He's definitely and obviously a high upside small school guy. He has a shot. I won't he shocked. I still like Mayfield this year, but I see the athletic testing and other points too.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Plenty of good small school OL:

Guys that have gone to the Pro Bowl in the last few years:

David Bakhtiari (Colorado)
Eric Fisher (Central Michigan)
Ali Marpet (Hobart College)
Joel Bitonio (Nevada)
Jason Kelce (Cincinnati)
Terron Armstead (Arkansas Pine-Bluff)
Brandon Brooks (Miami OH)
Alejandro Villanueva (Army)
Charles Leno (Boise State)
Kelechi Osemele (Iowa State)
Donald Penn (Utah State)
Joe Staley (Central Michigan)
Larry Warford (Kentucky)

Radunz is quite a bit better than Billy Turner coming out. More athletic, nastier, a beast in the running game. Turner had good athleticism, but he's not nasty.

[RashanGary]

Plenty of good small school OL:

Guys that have gone to the Pro Bowl in the last few years:

David Bakhtiari (Colorado)
Eric Fisher (Central Michigan)
Ali Marpet (Hobart College)
Joel Bitonio (Nevada)
Jason Kelce (Cincinnati)
Terron Armstead (Arkansas Pine-Bluff)
Brandon Brooks (Miami OH)
Alejandro Villanueva (Army)
Charles Leno (Boise State)
Kelechi Osemele (Iowa State)
Donald Penn (Utah State)
Joe Staley (Central Michigan)
Larry Warford (Kentucky)

Radunz is quite a bit better than Billy Turner coming out. More athletic, nastier, a beast in the running game. Turner had good athleticism, but he's not nasty.

Mostly guards. A couple small school guys taken high but mostly not.

Small school OL don't usually go in round 1

[HarveyWallbangers]

Mostly guards. A couple small school guys taken high but mostly not.

Small school OL don't usually go in round 1

You can say that about every position. How do they do when they are drafted in round 1?

Same thing could be said about QBs, but the ones from FCS that have gone in round 1 have been pretty solid: Phil Simms, Steve McNair, Joe Flacco, Carson Wentz, Ken O'Brien, Doug Williams, Chad Pennington (Marshall was FCS the first two years he went there). That's actually a pretty solid list--without any real bust. Doug Williams wasn't great, but he took over an expansion team that went 2-26 and help lead them to three playoff appearances in five years. Simms and Flacco won Super Bowls, McNair was a yard short, Wentz carried the Eagles to the playoffs the year they won, Pennington was solid, and I think O'Brien went to a couple of Pro Bowls.

[RashanGary]

You can say that about every position. How do they do when they are drafted in round 1?

Same thing could be said about QBs, but the ones from FCS that have gone in round 1 have been pretty solid: Phil Simms, Steve McNair, Joe Flacco, Carson Wentz, Ken O'Brien, Doug Williams, Chad Pennington (Marshall was FCS the first two years he went there). That's actually a pretty solid list--without any real bust. Doug Williams wasn't great, but he took over an expansion team that went 2-26 and help lead them to three playoff appearances in five years. Simms and Flacco won Super Bowls, McNair was a yard short, Wentz carried the Eagles to the playoffs the year they won, Pennington was solid, and I think O'Brien went to a couple of Pro Bowls.

For sure. Small school guys do seem to do well when drafted high. The Senior Bowl helps OL see better competition and go high and often times they perform well in the league. I'm just talking about the odds a small school guy gets drafted high at offensive tackle. I don't see a lot of it, so I.thibk it's less likely to happen this time. Of course, if it does happen, he'd have a good shot to succeed.

[RashanGary]

There are a bunch of late 1 / early 2 offensive tackles this year. It's a good year to be picking late if you need OL.

[Fritz]

There are a bunch of late 1 / early 2 offensive tackles this year. It's a good year to be picking late if you need OL.

Perhaps a good year to trade back and get an extra fourth...as long as you're not passing on a star at a position of need and picking up Vince Biegel with your extra pick...

[bobblehead]

I have looked at Radunz and I think he will be an excellent guard. I just don't see a frame that can add weight and stay athletic. Elgton is already the size and movement of an elite tackle. I have no problem with Dillon in the first with Jenkiins moving to tackle. In my humble opinion we have 2 very good NFL tackles on the roster, but one has been playing guard.

We will survive on the OL even if we don't draft anyone (but that would be foolish). The real problem is that we will be without Bak for a bit and that will create some issues. But you can't draft around a 5-8 game problem. Bak is locked up for 4? years so we just have to work around it. When he is back an OL of Bak, Runyan, Patrick, Wagner, Jenkins suits me ok. But plain and simple, I would like another elite OL to lean on. Thanks to Jenkins adaptability that could come at any position other than LT.

[bobblehead]

Perhaps a good year to trade back and get an extra fourth...as long as you're not passing on a star at a position of need and picking up Vince Biegel with your extra pick...

Trade back to get a 4th, then use the 4th to move up in the 2nd. That would net us 2 better players than drafting in both current spots.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'd go along with that idea if you could get Gutekunst to do it. There still should be a suitable Corner in the early to mid second round, and an offensive tackle like so many are clamoring for should still be there with our own second round pick. I'd still prioritize an ILB or D Lineman or a second Corner over drafting an O Lineman, but whatever.

[RashanGary]

I have looked at Radunz and I think he will be an excellent guard. I just don't see a frame that can add weight and stay athletic. Elgton is already the size and movement of an elite tackle. I have no problem with Dillon in the first with Jenkiins moving to tackle. In my humble opinion we have 2 very good NFL tackles on the roster, but one has been playing guard.

We will survive on the OL even if we don't draft anyone (but that would be foolish). The real problem is that we will be without Bak for a bit and that will create some issues. But you can't draft around a 5-8 game problem. Bak is locked up for 4? years so we just have to work around it. When he is back an OL of Bak, Runyan, Patrick, Wagner, Jenkins suits me ok. But plain and simple, I would like another elite OL to lean on. Thanks to Jenkins adaptability that could come at any position other than LT.

I don't know if we've seen enough to assume Jenkins is a good tackle. He sure hasn't shown enough to disprove it either.

We also could be fine right now if runyan and one of Stepaniak/Hansen pan out. Plus Jenkins is a legit tackle

We might not be fine at all if Jenkins struggles at tackle and Stepaniak/Hansen flop



It's one big question mark that could fall incredibly in our favor even without the draft or in our favor with the draft or a total cluster fuck with or without injuries. No clue is my stance on the OL right now. I'm guessing gute wants a tackle in the draft and we're sitting right where they are supposed to fall. 3 weeks from now we’ll have a much better idea.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I have looked at Radunz and I think he will be an excellent guard. I just don't see a frame that can add weight and stay athletic.

This is where we disagree. This is what I like about Radunz over some of the other guys (some who I project to be an OG or RT). I think he can play OT and I think he can play LT. He's slightly bigger than Bakh coming out. Athletically, he's tested quite a bit better in every category--except Bakh had him slightly in the 40 and bench press. (Note: Bakh's measurements came at the combine and Radunz's came at a Pro Day.) Bakh's arm were a little longer, but Radunz exceeds the OT threshold. So, he has enough size, athletic ability, and arm length to play OT. Radunz is one of the best zone run blockers in the draft. In the run game he can move, he finds people, and he looks to finish people. The question is his ability to handle power. He's light on the top end. However, the Senior Bowl answered some questions. He showed an ability to mirror. The biggest thing he showed was that he may be able to handle power. A lot of guys tried to use power moves on him and some were able to knock him back a bit, but he stalemated them because he has a strong base.

The other OTs projected to go late 1st or 2nd round also have some question marks. Jenkins might be a better fit in a power run game, Eichenberg's arm length didn't meet the LT threshold. Mayfield may not be athletic enough for MLF's scheme. Cosmi has some really good and really bad tape. Brown is raw. One guy that I want to look at more is Alex Leatherwood. He played LT for Alabama. Some project him to be an OG in the NFL, but my initial thought was that he could play OT.

[Joemailman]

I left Caleb Farley out of the poll because I was pretty certain he would be drafted before the Packers pick. I'm starting to be less certain. We're talking about a guy who is arguably a top-10 talent, but who tore his ACL in 2017, opted out of the 2020 season, and had back surgery in March 2021. I wonder if Gute is inclined to roll the dice on a guy like this. The potential is there to have a pretty impenetrable pair of corners if you draft him.

[bobblehead]

This is where we disagree. This is what I like about Radunz over some of the other guys (some who I project to be an OG or RT). I think he can play OT and I think he can play LT. He's slightly bigger than Bakh coming out. Athletically, he's tested quite a bit better in every category--except Bakh had him slightly in the 40 and bench press. (Note: Bakh's measurements came at the combine and Radunz's came at a Pro Day.) Bakh's arm were a little longer, but Radunz exceeds the OT threshold. So, he has enough size, athletic ability, and arm length to play OT. Radunz is one of the best zone run blockers in the draft. In the run game he can move, he finds people, and he looks to finish people. The question is his ability to handle power. He's light on the top end. However, the Senior Bowl answered some questions. He showed an ability to mirror. The biggest thing he showed was that he may be able to handle power. A lot of guys tried to use power moves on him and some were able to knock him back a bit, but he stalemated them because he has a strong base.

The other OTs projected to go late 1st or 2nd round also have some question marks. Jenkins might be a better fit in a power run game, Eichenberg's arm length didn't meet the LT threshold. Mayfield may not be athletic enough for MLF's scheme. Cosmi has some really good and really bad tape. Brown is raw. One guy that I want to look at more is Alex Leatherwood. He played LT for Alabama. Some project him to be an OG in the NFL, but my initial thought was that he could play OT.

I have mentioned that I like Leatherwood. He would be a fine RT. He is sort of tall for a guard. My take is something like this, and I stand by my assessment on Radunz. Radunz would be a better guard that Leatherwood would be a tackle. I see Radunz in the Mike Wahle, JC Tretter kind of mold. He doesn't look to me like he could wear 320 lbs. Leatherwood is a big dude, but doesn't have Radunz movement skills. His size will make him a decent NFL tackle and I think Radunz would be below average at tackle, but really good at guard.

So, it all goes back to Jenkins the RT for me. I can definitely live with Radunz in the 1st playing LG with Jenkins sliding to RT. The wildcard is still Yosh Nimjan. They kept him on the roster last year, so he must have taken a step. Did he work hard this offseason? Did he improve enough to start? He has LT ability and size. His skillset is elite, but elite talents have failed before. But like many things, we have NO way to know the answer.

edit: We have one way to have a hunch. They used Wagner in the playoffs. That tells me they didn't quite trust him last year.

[Fritz]

I left Caleb Farley out of the poll because I was pretty certain he would be drafted before the Packers pick. I'm starting to be less certain. We're talking about a guy who is arguably a top-10 talent, but who tore his ACL in 2017, opted out of the 2020 season, and had back surgery in March 2021. I wonder if Gute is inclined to roll the dice on a guy like this. The potential is there to have a pretty impenetrable pair of corners if you draft him.

The negatives I read about Farley really stick in my craw. I am hoping he's long gone by the time Gutes is even thinking of trading up or down.

[RashanGary]

A. The packers are really good at picking OL.
B. They brought over milt hendrickson from Baltimore two years ago who was Baltimore's OL guru and is now Gutes second in command. He helped select elgton
C. There are 5 OTs slotted around out pick


I hope it's an OL, but ill assume they really like someone else if it goes differently.

[jklowan]

PACKER TV just sent this out...

By now, Pro-Days have been completed, and Kent has been busy crunching RAS figures. With such a strong connection between who the Packers pick and that player having a high RAS, I wanted to go through position by position and list the players that meet this threshold.

While 8.0 has been the line in the sand, so to speak, I wanted to take it a step further and narrow the list down even more. So I threw out the scores that didn't qualify and averaged out the ones that did, and came to an average RAS per eligible draft pick of 9.1. This is the benchmark that I'll be using for this exercise.

By no means are these the only players on the Packers big board, there are players with a RAS below 9.1 that Green Bay will draft, and some of the players that are listed likely aren't even on the Packers' board. If you don't see your favorite player on here, keep in mind this has nothing to do with film or production; it's simply how they tested athletically, which, as we've seen, holds a lot of weight with Gutey. So I'd say chances are that there are some future Packers on this list.
Cornerback Marco Wilson, Florida, 9.99
Paulson Adebo, Stanford, 9.56
Jaycee Horn, South Carolina, 9.99
Eric Stokes, CB, Georgia, 9.38
Nate Hobbs, Illinois, 9.61
Zech McPhearson, Texas Tech, 9.56
Patrick Surtain II, Alabama, 9.96
Brandon Stephens, Southern Methodist, 9.20
Jason Pinnock, Pittsburgh, 9.78
Ifeatu Melifonwu, Syracuse, 9.70
Jeremy Bell, Charleston, 9.64
Greg Newsome, Northwestern, 9.66
Edge Jayson Oweh, Penn State, 9.92
Joe Tryon, Washington, 9.30
Kwity Paye, Michigan, 9.34
Carlos Basham, Wake Forest, 9.39
Elerson Smith, Northern Iowa, 9.72
Jaelan Phillips, Miami, 9.87
Joseph Ossai, Texas, 9.49
Josh Kaindoh, Florida State, 9.59
Payton Turner, Houston, 9.74
Janarius Robinson, Florida State, 9.33
William Bradley-King, Baylor, 9.17
Interior Defensive Lineman Milton Williams, Louisiana Tech, 9.96
TaQuon Graham, Texas, 9.68
Jonathan Marshall, Arkansas, 9.99
Bobby Brown, Texas A&M, 9.82
Safety Jevon Holland, Oregon, 9.54
James Wiggins, Cincinnati, 9.70
Caden Sterns, Texas, 9.59
Darrick Forrest, Cincinnati, 9.69
Linebacker Nick Niemann, Iowa, 9.51
Jamin Davis, Kentucky, 9.93
Buddy Johnson, Texas A&M, 9.22
Curtis Robinson, Stanford, 9.23
Baron Browning, Ohio State, 9.98
Pete Werner, Ohio State, 9.52
Interior Offensive Lineman Creed Humphrey, Oklahoma, 10.0
Quinn Meinerz, Wisconsin-Whitewater, 9.98
Drew Dalman, Stanford, 9.80
Chandon Herring, BYU, 9.84
Sadarius Hutcherson, South Carolina, 9.89
Ben Cleveland, Georgia, 9.63
Trey Smith, Tennessee, 9.91
Jordan Meredith, Western Kentucky, 9.35
Kendrick Greene, Illinois, 9.25
Offensive Tackle Tommy Doyle, Miami (OH), 9.90
Teven Jenkins, Oklahoma State, 9.74
Brady Christensen, BYU, 9.84
Dillon Radunz, North Dakota State, 9.28
Rashawn Slater, Northwestern, 9.71
Spencer Brown, Northern Iowa, 10.0
Samuel Cosmi, Texas, 9.99
Landon Young, Kentucky, 9.17
Quarterback Feleipe Franks, Arkansas, 9.56
Running Back Kene Nwangwu, Iowa State, 9.89
Jake Funk, Maryland, 9.76
Nathan McCrary, Saginaw Valley, 9.41
Travis Etienne, Clemson, 9.14
Elijah Mitchell, Louisiana, 9.51
Tight End Kyle Pitts, Florida, 9.64
Brock Wright, Notre Dame, 9.20
Wide Receiver Brandon Smith, Iowa, 9.16
Nico Collins, Michigan, 9.56
Jacob Harris, Central Florida, 9.88
Michael Strachan, Charleston, 9.22
Jalen Camp, Georgia Tech, 9.75
Tarik Black, Texas, 9.55
Simi Fehoko, Stanford, 9.18
Terrace Marshall, LSU, 9.76
BJ Emmons, Florida Atlantic, 9.22

Now that we've completed the list, I'll reiterate what I said above: RAS does not predict NFL success, and it doesn't mean that those not listed won't become excellent players. This article also doesn't mean that this is the extent of the players that the Packers could select; they will draft some players who scored below the 9.1 mark that I used. However, given how Gutekunst's first three drafts have gone, Packer fans should be aware of RAS and how it works.

[RashanGary]

jklowan,

Thanks for the list. The Packers do seem to take from the RAS list the last few years. There are guys who really develop late and end up better athletes than they tested in college. There are guys who are better football players than athletes. RAS, like you said, isn’t everything. But it does seem to be a part of the Packers equation.

[Joemailman]

Here are the RAS scores: https://relativeathleticscores.com/2021/01/23/2021-draft-class-ras/

OT: Mayfield one of the worst. All the other to guys we've talked about very good.

LB: Jamin Davis, Pete Werner, Zaven Collins and Koromoah all very good. Nick Bolton surprisingly bad.

CB: Horn, Surtain, Newsome, Adebo, Stokes, Joseph very good. Asante Samuel okay. Elijah Molden surprisingly bad.

[RashanGary]

Gute was asked to name a couple deep positions. He said OL and corner. Then he added that with players being able to opt in to another year of school, it’s a smaller class than usual. Maybe rounds 3-7 won’t be quite as impactful

[HarveyWallbangers]

jklowan,

Thanks for the list. The Packers do seem to take from the RAS list the last few years. There are guys who really develop late and end up better athletes than they tested in college. There are guys who are better football players than athletes. RAS, like you said, isn’t everything. But it does seem to be a part of the Packers equation.

I’d like to see the writer go more in depth. Each position values some traits over others—it’s not just a total RAS score. I’m going to get back to this when I have time. I’ve read articles on which tests are important at each position and I’ve tracked the Packers baseline in those tests since Ted Thompson took over

[Joemailman]

I’d like to see the writer go more in depth. Each position values some traits over others—it’s not just a total RAS score. I’m going to get back to this when I have time. I’ve read articles on which tests are important at each position and I’ve tracked the Packers baseline in those tests since Ted Thompson took over

Bakhtiari ranked only 26th among OT's in 2013. However, his agility score was good and his speed score was great. His explosion score was poor, especially vertical (broad jump was okay) and his size score was very poor. I remember analysts projecting him inside to Guard, probably because of his height, or lack thereof. Boy, were they wrong. https://relativeathleticscores.com/ras-information/?PlayerID=10479

[call_me_ishmael]

Bakhtiari ranked only 26th among OT's in 2013. However, his agility score was good and his speed score was great. His explosion score was poor, especially vertical (broad jump was okay) and his size score was very poor. I remember analysts projecting him inside to Guard, probably because of his height, or lack thereof. Boy, were they wrong. https://relativeathleticscores.com/ras-information/?PlayerID=10479

Wow, I never would have guessed he wasn't super explosive and that the scouts were saying that. I would think he would have crushed the agility drills to be so quick on his feet. Am I wrong in thinking he wins with his agility? I probably am.

[Fritz]

Gute was asked to name a couple deep positions. He said OL and corner. Then he added that with players being able to opt in to another year of school, it’s a smaller class than usual. Maybe rounds 3-7 won’t be quite as impactful

That signals that he's either going to trade those late-round picks to move up to get the guys he wants earlier...or that he thinks it's a deep draft and he's going to stockpile more late picks.

One or the other.

Ah, the NLF draft. It's like watching Spassky and Fischer play chess.

[bobblehead]

Bakhtiari ranked only 26th among OT's in 2013. However, his agility score was good and his speed score was great. His explosion score was poor, especially vertical (broad jump was okay) and his size score was very poor. I remember analysts projecting him inside to Guard, probably because of his height, or lack thereof. Boy, were they wrong. https://relativeathleticscores.com/ras-information/?PlayerID=10479

Bak figured out how to legally hold. Officials cracked down on holding for about half a season and he had a lot of flags. Now they are back to allowing his "technique" and he is great again. Bak is sort of a guy who toils and got a reputation and gets away with more than other younger guys (NBA style). If you put him next to Trent Williams or Anthony Castonzo he just doesn't look as smooth. Honestly its sort of a luck/miracle/persistence that has allowed him to become an elite LT. He is the Richard Sherman of LTs.

[Joemailman]

That signals that he's either going to trade those late-round picks to move up to get the guys he wants earlier...or that he thinks it's a deep draft and he's going to stockpile more late picks.

One or the other.

Ah, the NLF draft. It's like watching Spassky and Fischer play chess.

In 3 drafts, Gute has made a total of 1 4th round pick, and that was for J'Mon Moore. Those 2 4th round picks he has might be as good as gone.

[Fritz]

For Ted, I think the third round was his big failure. He should've traded all those away.

So on that theory, yes, trade those fourths to move up and get a guy you really like.I think I read that those two could move you up about five spots or so in the first. I wonder how far those two picks could move you in the second?

[Bretsky]

Trade all the 4ths and the dam 3rds and get into that second round.

[RashanGary]

Trade all the 4ths and the dam 3rds and get into that second round.

We hit a lot of OL gold in the 4th and Mike Daniels. Our 3rds tend to flop. I kinda have a grudge against Stergberger. TE's are asked to pass block quite a bit in blitz situations and he's worse than most WR's. I've seen him one are shoved over with no resistance. That's asking for 12 to be killed. If you cant trust him to handle a blitz, you make yourself predictable.

[SudsMcBucky]

For Ted, I think the third round was his big failure. He should've traded all those away.

So on that theory, yes, trade those fourths to move up and get a guy you really like.I think I read that those two could move you up about five spots or so in the first. I wonder how far those two picks could move you in the second?

It would move you up about 9 spots in the 2nd for both of the 4th rounders.

[SudsMcBucky]

Trade all the 4ths and the dam 3rds and get into that second round.

The 2 4ths and 1 3rd aren't enough capital to get back into the 2nd.

[Fritz]

We'll see if anyone slides enough that Gutes is interested in trading away two fourth-rounders.

I wouldn't mind a trade back into the second from the first, and trying to get more picks in the fourth so you have ammo to move around. But that depends of course on who's sitting there at #29.

[Bretsky]

Gooters is like a premature draftejaculator. TT let the board fall to him; not sure if Gooters has that in him.

At least one of those 4ths is as good as gone.

Chicago....needs a CB and WR
Baltimore needs a WR

If I were laying money I'd bet Gooters trades away a 4th to jump those teams and grab Newsome. If he's still there IMO they'd need to jump Baltimore to get Bateman. And if Teven Jenkins fallls they might jump up for him as well.

But I'd lay the funds on Newsome

[Fritz]

You know, if whoever he trades up for turns out to be an All-Pro at his postion, then cool.

[run pMc]

It will be the safety, Moehrig. This is my latest prediction because he'll likely be available, PLUS it's neither a CB, OT or WR...allowing Gute to troll all of us. Also, Moehrig is good enough to cover in the slot. They put him in and it delegates the likes of Will Redmond/Vernon Scott/Henry Black to ST.

[Upnorth]

Over at apc a community draft has stokes cb and edge oweh as our top two options left. No we I like as 1st rd left.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2021/4/22/22398211/apc-community-mock-draft-the-saints-are-on-the-clock-at-28

I would go stokes

I guess little at tackle is available but hasnt played since 2019 so mught be a big risk

[wist43]

Over at apc a community draft has stokes cb and edge oweh as our top two options left. No we I like as 1st rd left.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2021/4/22/22398211/apc-community-mock-draft-the-saints-are-on-the-clock-at-28

I would go stokes

I guess little at tackle is available but hasnt played since 2019 so mught be a big risk

I would take Campbell over Stokes. Not sure what Stokes' value is just yet, but Campbell is a better player.

[RashanGary]

Six days till we draft the generational all pro that puts us over the top!

[HarveyWallbangers]

I would take Campbell over Stokes. Not sure what Stokes' value is just yet, but Campbell is a better player.

Campbell is grabby hands on the tape I’ve watched. Like a bigger Ahmad Carroll. That won’t work in the pros.

[wist43]

Campbell is grabby hands on the tape I’ve watched. Like a bigger Ahmad Carroll. That won’t work in the pros.

Give me the link you looked at, I'll take a look.

As I said, I usually do more homework on guys before I offer an opinion, but I just don't have the time this year.

Thanks.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Give me the link you looked at, I'll take a look.

As I said, I usually do more homework on guys before I offer an opinion, but I just don't have the time this year.

Thanks.

I’ll have to try to find it. I noticed it when I was watching a WR prospect vs Georgia. Don’t remember which WR it was—one of the SEC receivers.

[RashanGary]

Seeing the way the title town district is built up, i wouldn't be surprised to see a few drafts held in green bay over the next two decades.

[Joemailman]

Seeing the way the title town district is built up, i wouldn't be surprised to see a few drafts held in green bay over the next two decades.

They are trying to get 2024.

[Bretsky]

They are trying to get 2024.

Prolly about when we should have jumped at our future QB :))))

[bobblehead]

I keep coming back to Karomoah. But then again, this defense isn't going to operate the same way. This is more of a Fangio style D, so maybe he wouldn't be the fit. I always say this D plays much better with Raven Greene on the field, and Karomoah is basically a better version who might stay healthy. He is the hybrid who can stick to a TE or a RB. He is the perfect need pick for this team.

[Bretsky]

Don't think he'll be there, and it would take an innovative DC to use him right. Do we have that ?

[Joemailman]

I keep coming back to Karomoah. But then again, this defense isn't going to operate the same way. This is more of a Fangio style D, so maybe he wouldn't be the fit. I always say this D plays much better with Raven Greene on the field, and Karomoah is basically a better version who might stay healthy. He is the hybrid who can stick to a TE or a RB. He is the perfect need pick for this team.

Saw a mock draft yesterday where the Packers traded away their 2 4th's to draft to draft Koramoah at 21. He didn't run the 40 at his Pro Day, but his agility and explosion grades were great. He weighed in at 221 which is 6 pounds heavier than his listed playing weight.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJFbQ_X9jQU

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eyh4QRUXMAMHt3Y.png

[wist43]

I'd be okay with trading up for JOK, but with the organizations track record of not caring about the position and Berry coming in as DC - it seems unlikely.

I'm fine with trading up a few spots for a few guys, barely Jenkins, JOK, Bateman, Baremore, Toney, or Newsome. Seems like one of those guys might drop to us though.

[wist43]

A CB I like further down is Robert Rochelle.

[RashanGary]

A CB I like further down is Robert Rochelle.

What do you like in corners? Rasul Douglas has had an ok career. What you see in.these guys?

[RashanGary]

I think JOK, lb, Notre Dame is kind of the consensus dream pick to boost both our base and nickel defenses. Actually it makes our base and nickel the same defense. JOK is tall. I think he could gain another 5 or 10 pounds to 225-230 and keep most of his speed.


He’s gonna be gone though. He’s better than isiah Simmons last year but Simmons tested better. Still, top 20 for sure.

[Joemailman]

Article about who might be available at #29. https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/who-will-be-available-for-packers-at-29


Greg Newsome, CB, Northwestern: I think he will be there. There’s definitely question marks on his medicals. He missed a number of games in every year across three years.

Cautionary comments about a guy many think Packers should draft to replace the oft-injured Kevin King.

[Bretsky]

Article about who might be available at #29. https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/who-will-be-available-for-packers-at-29



Cautionary comments about a guy many think Packers should draft to replace the oft-injured Kevin King.




If I was betting money on who GB moves up to draft, it would be this guy.

I actually really like him; does that disqualify him ? lol

[wist43]

Article about who might be available at #29. https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/who-will-be-available-for-packers-at-29



Cautionary comments about a guy many think Packers should draft to replace the oft-injured Kevin King.

Medical and character risk are the things we as fans can't factor - unless it's something egregious.

If a guy is a world beater on the field, but has been indicted for 1st degree murder, it's safe to take him off your board. On the other hand, you draft a guy, pay him a big bonus, and he basically quits b/c he's been paid... have to talk to a guy and get a feel for him as a person.

Other guys can't or won't play through pain. There's a difference between being injured and being hurt. Once the season starts, everyone is banged up and nursing something. Some guys can play thru that, some can't, or won't.

Gotta weed those guys out.

[wist43]

What do you like in corners? Rasul Douglas has had an ok career. What you see in.these guys?

1. Size, length, long arms.
2. Good footwork, fluid back pedal
3. Loose hips, ability to flip hips and transition without losing speed.
4. Speed, sub 4.5
5. Good technique, tackling
6. Ball skills, ability to turn and locate the ball.

After I noticed Rochelle, I saw him going in the 3rd round of a mock. I'm sure he's on every GN's radar.

Rochelle is a very good prospect.

[Joemailman]

Hey Bretsky,

The Athletic has a mock draft where the Packers trade away their 3rd Round Pick to move up and take JOK. Thought you'd want to know.:D

[Bretsky]

Hey Bretsky,

The Athletic has a mock draft where the Packers trade away their 3rd Round Pick to move up and take JOK. Thought you'd want to know.:D



Sounds good ! We get nothing out of our 3rd anyways so get rid the dam thing. Trade back or trade up...just stop drafting in the 3rd

[RashanGary]

Sounds good ! We get nothing out of our 3rd anyways so get rid the dam thing. Trade back or trade up...just stop drafting in the 3rd

You know, theres something like a 30% chance a player will be even decent. Maybe it's just bad luck. But this is a shallow draft. All time shallow with all of the seniors who were allowed another year of college eligibility that took that offer who will come out next year. I would take every chance to get picks next year. I think I'd even take a round for round straight trade
to get picks next year vs this year.

[RashanGary]

And then when next year comes, I'd trade back a bunch. So maybe trade a 2nd this year for a 2nd next year, then trade back for a bunch of 3rds and 4ths next year. Next years picks are gold, even in rounds 3-4. This years are garbage.

Next year

2nd
3rd
3rd
3rd
4th
4th
4th

would be like having a 1 and three 2's and 3, threes.

[Fritz]

And then when next year comes, I'd trade back a bunch. So maybe trade a 2nd this year for a 2nd next year, then trade back for a bunch of 3rds and 4ths next year. Next years picks are gold, even in rounds 3-4. This years are garbage.

Next year

2nd
3rd
3rd
3rd
4th
4th
4th

would be like having a 1 and three 2's and 3, threes.


I thought this was supposed to be a pretty deep draft, particularly for corners, offensive linemen, and receivers.

[Joemailman]

I thought this was supposed to be a pretty deep draft, particularly for corners, offensive linemen, and receivers.

I think the first 3 rounds are pretty good. After that though, the depth might be less than normal.

[Fritz]

I think the first 3 rounds are pretty good. After that though, the depth might be less than normal.

Ah, I see. So the fantasy of trading back and getting another third is a good one.

On an unrelated note, where is Asante Samuel mocked, in the draft sense? I mean, maybe he gets mocked on social media, or maybe his friends mock him in fun, but where does the world think he'll be drafted?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Ah, I see. So the fantasy of trading back and getting another third is a good one.

On an unrelated note, where is Asante Samuel mocked, in the draft sense? I mean, maybe he gets mocked on social media, or maybe his friends mock him in fun, but where does the world think he'll be drafted?

Late 1st, early 2nd. I'm convinced he'll be a good player, safe pick. He may be one of the few that has slot CB size but can play outside (like Jaire), but that's not a given. If he can't play outside, I'm not sure he should be taken over guys like Newsome, Stokes, Campbell, and Joseph. That's the dilemma. I'd probably still take him over all of those guys--except Newsome. However, it's close.

[RashanGary]

I think the first 3 rounds are pretty good. After that though, the depth might be less than normal.

It’s ok at the top, Gute said it was shallow because seniors got a 5th year of eligibility due to Covid.

I’ve since read that next years crop is extremely deep already because of all the extra seniors. I would start planning for extra picks next year.

[Fritz]

Late 1st, early 2nd. I'm convinced he'll be a good player, safe pick. He may be one of the few that has slot CB size but can play outside (like Jaire), but that's not a given. If he can't play outside, I'm not sure he should be taken over guys like Newsome, Stokes, Campbell, and Joseph. That's the dilemma. I'd probably still take him over all of those guys--except Newsome. However, it's close.

As I've said, despite my confident proclamations, I know just enough to be dangerous, so I would take your assessment as of more value than my own. I would imagine, just based on size and athleticism, you'd take Newsome and a couple of the others over Samuel. I picture Samuel as an excellent slot corner, but if you drafted a safety and moved Savage down, you could focus on an outside corner later, if there are any prospects out there that fit that bill. Like, a little better than the Kadar Hollomans of the world.

[run pMc]

They can draft someone later (i.e., R3 or 4) and develop them to replace King next year. Or after 8 games when he's hurt.

[Bretsky]

I really like Elijah Moore and would be fine with him in round 1

[Bretsky]

Main JS guy predicated the ND offensive tackle. If Bateman/Newsome/etc are gone big fan of trading down

[Fritz]

I'm reading that guy isn't going until the end of the second. Pack picks him there I'm fine.

[red]

Might just end up with multiple first round picks tonight