AR wants out?!

[Jaire]

Also he mentioned Lang and Bulaga (maybe Sitton). The point is AR had zero input. It confirms that AR has never had a voice, none. It's not that he wanted or wants control just that they lost a lot in the locker room with losing ALL of these guys. They didn't even really listen to him. As I see it Woodson was the biggest loss, who would have signed for less. Rodgers said that Peppers would have resigned for 3 million -- another name AR mentioned twice. It seems to me they lost out on a couple more runs amd a number of wasted 1st rounders because of these decisions.

Fresh blood in the FO is needed. Again the interview is AR's best imo. Lots comes out and AR handled it very well, diplomatically speaking. No passive aggressivemess. No real mud thrown: but alarms should be going off among more astute followers of GB.

[call_me_ishmael]

Yeah, I agree Jaire, that was a very damning interview and ARod came out smelling like roses IMHO.

[Joemailman]

The pressers with Gute and Rodgers reveal the problems. It's very clear nothing has changed between AR and Gute. AR's presser is highly recommended.

A few things:

1) AR was upset how GB treated CMIII, Woodson, Jordy, Cobb, Hayward, Hyde etc. Never mentioned Kumerow but did mention the WR he thought was 2nd best on camp was let go last year. I wonder who that was. He makes very good ppints here. I am 90% on AR's side.
2) AR never had any input in past. At all. So Gute is not maybe lying but means something very different by "input."
3) AR has no choice about where to go next year. Never had an offer to guarantee him 2022, nor about where he goes. (All reports are b.s.. Schefter is a lying sob. Nothing true at all.)
4) never been about money
5) AR almost retired but decided to return in the last 2 weeks after taking with former and present teamates. This explains why nobody really knew what was going to happen. He reallt only just changed his mind.
6) IMO: if Gute really did change and take AR's suggestions, AR would definitely retire in GB. But now listening to Gute (this AM) that ain't happening. (Gute should go imo, while I acknowledge he does some things ok. Some probs go back to TT esp getting rid of Woodson. This is going to be am ongoing prob with Gute.)
7) He never leaked anything nor his camp. He doesn't know where leaks came from but esp on draft day (which I assume came from NFL to drive up ratings and controversy.)

I really really recommend listening. AR spills the beans after 4 years and is 100% right imo. He just wants to help. Every other premier QB has had more say than he has got: KEY STAT . Finally, Gute clearly says (between the lines) that the only reason Cobb is coming back is for AR and what's "best for GB." HE REALLY distances himself from that decision. They are not on the same page as AR and very likelt never will be imo (and AR's).

tl;dr The FO got absolutely everything. AR nada. He just wants to play still, decided not to retire, and win: still loces the team and GB. Cobb was a concession but GB was willing to pay AR much more than Cobb will ever cost. Why they are getting it done imo.

That was an interesting PC to ay the least. https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1lDxLpnQLDvxm He really would love to end his career in Green Bay but feels that's not likely to happen. I have the sense his issue is probably more with the organization overall (Murphy and Ball) than with Gute. After all, a lot of the things he's upset about happened before Gute was GM.

[Jaire]

Agreed

It goes back before Gute but got worse with him.

[call_me_ishmael]

I think the NFL is starting to change a bit and it may be time to adapt or die. The NBA is very clearly a players league and I think you're starting to see that a bit with the NFL. Brady and ARod trying to force their way out because they have options outside of playing for their current team (eg, jeopardy, commercials, etc).

I guess I would say it was an insanely arrogant to assume that Organizations win championships in Chicago and maybe the same could be said of GB. To some extent, I think they think it will be easy to find the next star QB. Personally, I think it was complete luck that Aaron turned out to be a star. I think every single person involved would say they were surprised at how good he turned out to be. I am extremely skeptical that they will be that lucky again.

[RashanGary]

Probably the #1 point Aaron made was that he could have been used in recruiting. Other than that, he assumes you can keep everyone and you just can't.

[Harlan Huckleby]

It goes back before Gute but got worse with him.

You've accepted one side of the story as the whole truth.

It's not surprising that AR's version of events places him in a very reasonable and holy position.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Yeah, I agree Jaire, that was a very damning interview and ARod came out smelling like roses IMHO.

He is a very intelligent and persuasive person. Of course he came out smelling rosey.


BTW, I suspect I would side with many of AR's opinions if I did hear both sides.

[RashanGary]

Every decision 12 didn't appreciate ended up being a good decision if you're trying to win. This highlights the focus on winning over loyalty that the organization has.

[texaspackerbacker]

I haven't seen the Rodgers presscon, but the summary above (thanks, Jaire) details it pretty well, I guess.

I am a little more encouraged than I was before seeing that. It does appear that there is a slim hope of Rodgers finishing his career in Green Bay - he said the only thing he has ever said in the past, that he wants to do that. Why did I consistently think that through this whole mess? Because Rodgers himself never said otherwise. I also said consistently, Schefter is a God damned media lying sack of shit, and assuming Rodgers is telling the truth, God damned Schefter is exactly that - may he rot in a particularly miserable part of hell reserved for media assholes.

I also haven't heard Gutekunst's presscon, but based on the descriptions in here, it seems like he was and will continue to be doing his damnedest to drive the GOAT QB out of Green Bay. A grassroots movement of fans really needs to be started - if such doesn't already exist - to run God damned Gutekunst out of town. Yeah, he has done a few things good, but this alienating of Rodgers, and his apparent intention to continue it, getting Cobb to please Rodgers not withstanding, outweighs all the good and is just cause to tar and feather him and kick his ass OUT as GM.

[call_me_ishmael]

Tex, you need to watch it, it is really something.

Here is a ten second summary that says it all.

https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/1420440081530245122

[Joemailman]

Tex, you need to watch it, it is really something.

Here is a ten second summary that says it all.

https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/1420440081530245122

Great press conference. You may not agree with Rodgers, but you'll get a sense of why this whole situation happened.

[Harlan Huckleby]

There is no evidence that other NFL teams "respect" their QB more by accepting his personnel suggestions.

The best indication is that GB is much like other teams (at worst.) AR signed a new contract with the club just two years ago after being in GB for 13 years.

[red]

Gutey said this morning that Aaron had always had his opinions, but no one's ever listened to him before

He also said, Aaron had now earned a seat at the table

Just now?

Rodgers put it all out there this time, and it wasn't a good look for Murphy, gutes and TT and maybe ball

[RashanGary]

The problem with Aarons personnel decisions is they're loser decisions. If you're gonna lose the right way, call it what it is, say right out that we’re gonna lose the right way. Stop saying you're trying to win when loyalty to old players comes above winning.

[RashanGary]

The front office made decisions that hurt people's feelings. Using Rodgers list of guys who should have been taken care of: Nelson, Woodson, Lang, James Jones, etc.... Every single time the team made the right decision if they're trying to win first.

If you're gonna hate on.the Packers, you're hating on them for choosing winning above loyalty.


Personally, id rather lose the right way than win without loyalty, but I understand that they've been hired to win so they make those tough calls. I'm not gonna call anyone a piece of shit over Rodgers gripes and accusations.

[Joemailman]

The problem with Aarons personnel decisions is they're loser decisions. If you're gonna lose the right way, call it what it is, say right out that we’re gonna lose the right way. Stop saying you're trying to win when loyalty to old players comes above winning.

I don't think he was saying to choose loyalty over winning. I think he was saying the Packers FO undervalued experience and leadership. That paying Jordy Nelson 3M to stay is better than counting on Geronimo Allison. That expecting M.D. Jennings to replace Charles Woodson is not conducive to winning. Right or wrong, I think that is what Rodgers is saying.

[RashanGary]

I don't think he was saying to choose loyalty over winning. I think he was saying the Packers FO undervalued experience and leadership. That paying Jordy Nelson 3M to stay is better than counting on Geronimo Allison. That expecting M.D. Jennings to replace Charles Woodson is not conducive to winning. Right or wrong, I think that is what Rodgers is saying.

I think I was a little off on that. Good point. That is closer to what he was saying.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Does Gute come out in presser and say Rodgers needs to scramble to his left more, he is too predictable rolling out to right? Gute would just be doing so to try and win....

[jklowan]

Every decision 12 didn't appreciate ended up being a good decision if you're trying to win. This highlights the focus on winning over loyalty that the organization has.

except they didn't win anything

[red]

just thinking about 1 thing rodgers said about wanting to finish his career here and how others got dumped before they could

how many guys actually get to retire as a packer? and i don't mean guys that signed a 1 day contract, or had a career ending injury

theres driver. did tramon retire?

we always get rid of the guys 1 year early instead of one year late. but thats really shitty for guys that have bought into the team and just want to play for green bay

anyone got others? i'm drawing a blank

[Spaulding]

just thinking about 1 thing rodgers said about wanting to finish his career here and how others got dumped before they could

how many guys actually get to retire as a packer? and i don't mean guys that signed a 1 day contract, or had a career ending injury

theres driver. did tramon retire?

we always get rid of the guys 1 year early instead of one year late. but thats really shitty for guys that have bought into the team and just want to play for green bay

anyone got others? i'm drawing a blank

None that I recall recently. Only names of note that I recall whose careers weren't cut short by injury as Packers (Sharpe, Collins, Finley) were Ruettgers, Winters and Chmura which was 20 years ago.

[Joemailman]

Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher. Probably plenty of lesser known guys. Most players retire without much fanfare.

[RashanGary]

Does Gute come out in presser and say Rodgers needs to scramble to his left more, he is too predictable rolling out to right? Gute would just be doing so to try and win....

Good point.

I'm still figuring out where I stand on all of this. Most of the guys Rodgers wanted to keep, I think gute and TT had made the right call on, in terms of winning games.

So far I'm not anti rodgers because he has some points but I'm not anti team because I think they were trying to win games.

[RashanGary]

just thinking about 1 thing rodgers said about wanting to finish his career here and how others got dumped before they could

how many guys actually get to retire as a packer? and i don't mean guys that signed a 1 day contract, or had a career ending injury

theres driver. did tramon retire?

we always get rid of the guys 1 year early instead of one year late. but thats really shitty for guys that have bought into the team and just want to play for green bay

anyone got others? i'm drawing a blank

This is pretty much what I see too. We dump guys near the end, we don't let them get to the end. It sucks because these guys did everything right and deserve to go out with that loyalty and team feeling. But they don't.

It's not to say they're the wrong moves, to cut ties a year early, but its tough to watch. Sours the game, the financial side does.

I don't think anyone means harm. I'm not anti anyone in this thing.

I'm starting to lean a little toward Rodgers overstepping, but it's not like he's trying to cause harm either.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I just listened to AR's full presser. I think he is sincere, not an ass. But his criticism of the Packers is identical to my endless complaint about the NFL. There are no real teams anymore. It's an endless churn of rent-a-players constantly moving around. No loyalty. It isn't a GB specific problem.

[Harlan Huckleby]

For the 100th time, my fix is to exempt players from the salary cap who have been on the same team for > 5 years. That may sound radical, but when you think it through there is no reason for salaries to skyrocket.

[RashanGary]

For the 100th time, my fix is to exempt players from the salary cap who have been on the same team for > 5 years. That may sound radical, but when you think it through there is no reason for salaries to skyrocket.

7 years would probably do the trick too

And yes, you have been calling this out for years.

[Bretsky]

Yeah, I agree Jaire, that was a very damning interview and ARod came out smelling like roses IMHO.


THIS

We thought he stunk really bad before; now I'm torn. After listening to AROD he smells way better. Gutebag really didn't help himself.

And Marcia always smells about the same to me

[Bretsky]

Probably the #1 point Aaron made was that he could have been used in recruiting. Other than that, he assumes you can keep everyone and you just can't.


Two obvious points

The organization doesn't appreciate with Rodgers can offer (similar to your point)

They lacked class (in Rodgers view) in how they treated there players. This just isn't about the guys they cute or reduced pay. This goes back IMO

[Bretsky]

The front office made decisions that hurt people's feelings. Using Rodgers list of guys who should have been taken care of: Nelson, Woodson, Lang, James Jones, etc.... Every single time the team made the right decision if they're trying to win first.

If you're gonna hate on.the Packers, you're hating on them for choosing winning above loyalty.


Personally, id rather lose the right way than win without loyalty, but I understand that they've been hired to win so they make those tough calls. I'm not gonna call anyone a piece of shit over Rodgers gripes and accusations.


Let's Simplify this because you keep apologizing for GuteBag and all his decisions were not right.

Would you have preferred to keep Jordy Nelson for 5 MIL a year, or sign Jimmy Graham for 10 MIL a year ?

[Jaire]

The front office made decisions that hurt people's feelings. Using Rodgers list of guys who should have been taken care of: Nelson, Woodson, Lang, James Jones, etc.... Every single time the team made the right decision if they're trying to win first.

If you're gonna hate on.the Packers, you're hating on them for choosing winning above loyalty.


Personally, id rather lose the right way than win without loyalty, but I understand that they've been hired to win so they make those tough calls. I'm not gonna call anyone a piece of shit over Rodgers gripes and accusations.
Of the guys Rodgers mentioned he was dead on about Woodson, who was the D leader and responsible for the ring in 2010. We have had no leader on D since. That loss was huge and we spent years trying to replace him.

Likewise Hyde was a no brainer. Another wasted first round pick too (Haha). But the coach didn't know how to play him. Casey was a very different decision with his injury history, having 2 cbs, and being up against the cap. AR's point is they seem to take zero consideration of the locker room and how it affects team play. Obviously some posters here don't get it either. It seems in every case they have coldly cut these guys out. TT would keep at least a few around like AJ. There's a balance.

Peppers is sorely underrated. He was willing to return for 3 million and had no replacement. I don't know why you just drop him. He was still effective til he hung it up and played above average in the playoffs not to mention his locker room presence.

AR was NOT asking for all these guys. But he said they were ALL low balled, given no offer, or disrespected (esp Clay Matthews) on the way out. I mean why give out Clay's jersey next year: classless. It points to something deeper with Gute.

This FO somewhere around 2013 stopped their interest in the locker room. Who is responsible for that? It's like they swung from one extreme to the other

Anyways, it's a cumulative effect. Also listen to Davante Adams on Cobb and his value. He caught 79% of passes thrown to him last year. He will flourish again in MLF's scheme. And Amari won't be ready for a year or two to contribute in the playoffs. Cobb is for right now. Amari is a futures (except sweeps and ST)



Anyways, I'm tired of defending the boneheaded moves in the FO. The way they treat players really has gone way down since around 2013 to completely unacceptable levels. Remember how they kicked MM on the street. That sort of treatment is top shelf shitty.

But Gute is just gonna keep going full steam and it will have an effect after AR leaves this season (which all signs point to). The bottom line is that these decisions also cost a ton of 1st & 2nd round draft picks as well.

In sum, Peppers, Woodson, Hyde were dumb cuts and head scratchers to me at the time. They used to hang onto locker leaders too long (AJ Hawk) but swung wholly the other way now. And again Rodgers was pointing out that NONE of these guys were kept or respected. It's not about being chummy or nice but about winning. AR is not at all entirely right but their is a balance and compromise there (as with his ability to recruit outside).

It's not "choosing winning" over loyalty. They STILL lost. They are way to high on their own ability to draft and canceled players who got them there and so havent one a ring in 11 years.

[Bretsky]

Of the guys Rodgers mentioned he was dead on about Woodson, who was the D leader and responsible for the ring in 2010. We have had no leader on D since. That loss was huge and we spent years trying to replace him.

Likewise Hyde was a no brainer. Another wasted first round pick too (Haha). But the coach didn't know how to play him. Casey was a very different decision with his injury history, having 2 cbs, and being up against the cap. AR's point is they seem to take zero consideration of the locker room and how it affects team play. Obviously some posters here don't get it either. It seems in every case they have coldly cut these guys out. TT would keep at least a few around like AJ. There's a balance.

Peppers is sorely underrated. He was willing to return for 3 million and had no replacement. I don't know why you just drop him. He was still effective til he hung it up and played above average in the playoffs not to mention his locker room presence.

AR was NOT asking for all these guys. But he said they were ALL low balled, given no offer, or disrespected (esp Clay Matthews) on the way out. I mean why give out Clay's jersey next year: classless. It points to something deeper with Gute.

This FO somewhere around 2013 stopped their interest in the locker room. Who is responsible for that? It's like they swung from one extreme to the other

Anyways, it's a cumulative effect. Also listen to Davante Adams on Cobb and his value. He caught 79% of passes thrown to him last year. He will flourish again in MLF's scheme. And Amari won't be ready for a year or two to contribute in the playoffs. Cobb is for right now. Amari is a futures (except sweeps and ST)



Anyways, I'm tired of defending the boneheaded moves in the FO. The way they treat players really has gone way down since around 2013 to completely unacceptable levels. Remember how they kicked MM on the street. That sort of treatment is top shelf shitty.

But Gute is just gonna keep going full steam and it will have an effect after AR leaves this season (which all signs point to). The bottom line is that these decisions also cost a ton of 1st & 2nd round draft picks as well.

In sum, Peppers, Woodson, Hyde were dumb cuts and head scratchers to me at the time. They used to hang onto locker leaders too long (AJ Hawk) but swung wholly the other way now. And again Rodgers was pointing out that NONE of these guys were kept, some cut early, many treated like garbage and all first rate players. It's not about being chummy or nice but about winning. AR is not stall entirely right but their is a balance and compromise there (as with his ability to recruit outside).

It's not "choosing winning" over loyalty. They STILL lost. They are way to high on their own ability to draft and get rid of players who got them there and so havent one a ring in 11 years.



When you have the best QB in the NFL or close to it, it's Super Bowl or Bust. We got a lotta busts lately

[RashanGary]

Let's Simplify this because you keep apologizing for GuteBag and all his decisions were not right.

Would you have preferred to keep Jordy Nelson for 5 MIL a year, or sign Jimmy Graham for 10 MIL a year ?

True. Shoulda kept Jordy at 5 over graham at 10. It would have been a mixed bag had we done it Rodgers way.

[Jaire]

When you have the best QB in the NFL or close to it, it's Super Bowl or Bust. We got a lotta busts lately

Agreed.

And the FO couldn't put a top defense together in 10 years.

80% of Superbowl winners have a top defense (76% an elite QB -- takes both). AR has had the worst defenses of any top QB in 40 years. Check it out. He's had just two (by numbers 09 & 10, barely; by eyetest imo10 & 14).

If I'm AR I am by far most pissed because the D is finally there. And they are getting rid of him next year.

[RashanGary]

No harm can be done in taking in Rodgers perspective. Bretsky, like you said, the Nelson to Graham move was a bad move. Some of that was just unessessary. And we could have kept Hyde and Heyward. Rodgers has some points and good ones, to do a better job taking care of those guys who do it the right way.

GMs probably have some blind spots. They're so busy looking at college and pro tape and analyzing players, they probably arent as grounded in what's going on, on the team as much as someone like Rodgers, who spends every day with the guys.

Frankly, they might be better off if.they listen to 12 a little and adjust. They're human and make mistakes too.

[Bretsky]

True. Shoulda kept Jordy at 5 over graham at 10. It would have been a mixed bag had we done it Rodgers way.


Well, maybe. Rodgers and Jordy had the mojo; Jordy would have been 2 years removed from the ACL. Maybe that back shoulder pass would have still been there.

On ESPN I have heard Gutebag offered Jorday 2.5Mil/Year, and the Vet minimum....to stay. Almost like a fake gesture.

Either way, Jordy has to feel bent over with that. And that is part of Rodgers gripe .

[RashanGary]

Agreed.

And the FO couldn't put a top defense together in 10 years.

80% of Superbowl winners have a top defense (76% an elite QB -- takes both). AR has had the worst defenses of any top QB in 40 years. Check it out. He's had just two (by numbers 09 & 10, barely; by eyetest imo10 & 14).

If I'm AR I am by far most pissed because the D is finally there. And they are getting rid of him next year.

He's not necessarily gone. Love has to prove he's good first.

[Bretsky]

No harm can be done in taking in Rodgers perspective. Bretsky, like you said, the Nelson to Graham move was a bad move. Some of that was just unessessary. And we could have kept Hyde and Heyward. Rodgers has some points and good ones, to do a better job taking care of those guys who do it the right way.

GMs probably have some blind spots. They're so busy looking at college and pro tape and analyzing players, they probably arent as grounded in what's going on, on the team as much as someone like Rodgers, who spends every day with the guys.

Frankly, they might be better off if.they listen to 12 a little and adjust. They're human and make mistakes too.




I agree with all of this; it's been reported by many Favre was very close to Bob Harlan. Rodgers doesn't have that contact in the front office. Maybe that's partly his fault.
But I don't think he likes any of them and they probably at this point don't like him. This is some FO failure.

You don't even have to "listen" to him all the time. Just hear him, maybe throw him a bone sometimes (maybe that was Whitewater Jesus), and make him feel appreciated and a part of things

[RashanGary]

Well, maybe. Rodgers and Jordy had the mojo; Jordy would have been 2 years removed from the ACL. Maybe that back shoulder pass would have still been there.

On ESPN I have heard Gutebag offered Jorday 2.5Mil/Year, and the Vet minimum....to stay. Almost like a fake gesture.

Either way, Jordy has to feel bent over with that. And that is part of Rodgers gripe .

I just get a little put off with your opinion because you're calling him gutebag and making it personal. I'm sure there blind spots for every GM. Rodgers has been watching this for 16 years. I'm sure his perspective can be helpful in some ways. I still root for Gute. I don't see him being a POS and don't see him out to intentionally cause harm.

[Jaire]

He's not necessarily gone. Love has to prove he's good first.

Of course.

But AR is a seat holder. He is the back up plan. I give Love better than 50% odds he'll pass: he was the QB prospect with highest upside in last year's draft. Those questions will be answered in preseason. AR is better than 50% gone regardless of how AR does.

[RashanGary]

The Packers literally just drafted a guy in 2020 that they think can be a special QB (you don't move up in the first otherwise.)

I'm not sure if anything could be done after that to calm Rodgers down. Even if Love flounders and they offer Rodgers a 4-year extension next year, that's like a wife's friend calling to tell her that her husband tried to fuck her. Sure, she turned him down, but the mf was trying to move on. Gute tried to move on from Rodgers. He's fucking irrate.

He painted it pretty well at the podium today, but I suspect Rodgers is some sort of scorned over that attempt to move on. He's angry. That's the root of this thing.

[Joemailman]

If Rodgers has another awesome season AND the Packers win the Super Bowl, I think there's a chance he gets to finish his career here. The public pressure to keep him here would be immense. And by public pressure I don't just mean the fans. It would also include media, players etc. If, on the other hand, the Packers have another disappointing playoff exit, then I think it makes sense to move on, gain some draft picks and salary cap room, and see what Love can do.

[Jaire]

I just get a little put off with your opinion because you're calling him gutebag and making it personal. I'm sure there blind spots for every GM. Rodgers has been watching this for 16 years. I'm sure his perspective can be helpful in some ways. I still root for Gute. I don't see him being a POS and don't see him out to intentionally cause harm.

He's a dirtbag with how he treated MM and CM3. Look no further. How he's doin' AR now is dirty imo. I listened to Gute's presser. And I am tired of him lying and throwing shade (and he's very good at it). And I think it's bad for biz, low, and gonna lose in the long run by kicking AR out like this.

Bretsky's point about Favre and Harlan is on point. These FO's are far more arogant than the GOAT. Favre overall had a much better set up especially early on. AR has been riding the wood silently and carrying the team (esp defense and FO mistakes) for ten years. Something definitely changed for the worse in TT's waning years and certainly post TT.

[Jaire]

If Rodgers has another awesome season AND the Packers win the Super Bowl, I think there's a chance he gets to finish his career here. The public pressure to keep him here would be immense. And by public pressure I don't just mean the fans. It would also include media, players etc. If, on the other hand, the Packers have another disappointing playoff exit, then I think it makes sense to move on, gain some draft picks and salary cap room, and see what Love can do.


No way.

If Love is decent, AR is gone. Andrew Brandt (and others) get it. They will get a King's ransom. Homer gets it too.

[Bretsky]

I just get a little put off with your opinion because you're calling him gutebag and making it personal. I'm sure there blind spots for every GM. Rodgers has been watching this for 16 years. I'm sure his perspective can be helpful in some ways. I still root for Gute. I don't see him being a POS and don't see him out to intentionally cause harm.



To be fair I've been calling him Gutebag, or Gooters since he got hired over Eliott Wolf :))

[RashanGary]

To be fair I've been calling him Gutebag, or Gooters since he got hired over Eliott Wolf :))

True. Like woodbuck and TT :lol:

[call_me_ishmael]

My point would just be “is the Packers way working”? If so, how is it? Two championships in 30 years of unmatched QB play is kind of a stain on the org IMO. There’s only one Tom Brady but it’s not like Brady was kicking our ass in the super bowl year after year. To me it feels like the team should have won more and accepting the status quo as “great” or whatever is problematic in my eyes. Sure they make a lot of money and that is good but at the end of the day titles matter and the Packers have underachieved. Often times it seems like the QBs carried the team more than they do in other orgs.

[Upnorth]

My point would just be “is the Packers way working”? If so, how is it? Two championships in 30 years of unmatched QB play is kind of a stain on the org IMO. There’s only one Tom Brady but it’s not like Brady was kicking our ass in the super bowl year after year. To me it feels like the team should have won more and accepting the status quo as “great” or whatever is problematic in my eyes. Sure they make a lot of money and that is good but at the end of the day titles matter and the Packers have underachieved. Often times it seems like the QBs carried the team more than they do in other orgs.

Coaxhing on the defense and special teams still feels huge. You have 4 and 26 the Seahawks and boykin and last year's oitmatched injured Kevin king. Different coaching in those 3 plays equals a sb appearance. The o has always at least had decent pieces, and with what we have given the d they need to be better. Special teams, I just don't understand.

[texaspackerbacker]

Well, I saw the whole Rodgers press conference, and if anything, I'm a little bit less optimistic than I was just reading the summary of it. The key question obviously was "do you see a pathway going forward to staying in Green Bay beyond this season?" Rodgers did not say no, but he also didn't sound very optimistic about it. He said at least twice, he doesn't expect to be part of personnel decisions going forward, and that was after saying he thought he should have been consulted or used in that way over the years. Put those two things together, and it sounds kinda negative.

I still need to listen to the Gutekunst press conference, but if that is as described, the outlook is pretty gloomy beyond this season.

[texaspackerbacker]

Kelly was good enough to start all 16 games at OT for a not horrible NFL team just last season, and he's not too old - 32 I think. I'm hoping this means they don't mess with putting Jenkins at OT. It also probably means Bakhtiari is pretty far from 100% at this point. We had plenty of O Line depth before, and we have another decent chunk of it now.

[RashanGary]

My point would just be “is the Packers way working”? If so, how is it? Two championships in 30 years of unmatched QB play is kind of a stain on the org IMO. There’s only one Tom Brady but it’s not like Brady was kicking our ass in the super bowl year after year. To me it feels like the team should have won more and accepting the status quo as “great” or whatever is problematic in my eyes. Sure they make a lot of money and that is good but at the end of the day titles matter and the Packers have underachieved. Often times it seems like the QBs carried the team more than they do in other orgs.

Similar to Brees, Rivers, Manning, Russel Wilson, etc. Other than New England, no one did much better.

[texaspackerbacker]

Good Point, RG. You basically beat me to saying that.

I'd absolutely say, the "Packer way" has been working for 30 years or so.

If we lose the GOAT QB after this season, though, because the FO pretty much forced him out or at least didn't try hard enough to keep him, then I'd say the "Packer way" just stopped working.

[RashanGary]

Good Point, RG. You basically beat me to saying that.

I'd absolutely say, the "Packer way" has been working for 30 years or so.

If we lose the GOAT QB after this season, though, because the FO pretty much forced him out or at least didn't try hard enough to keep him, then I'd say the "Packer way" just stopped working.

Wins since 1990

https://champsorchumps.us/records/most-nfl-wins-since-1990

[Harlan Huckleby]

I fell asleep during this detail of the AR presser: Rodgers is disappointed that he only heard about LaFlower being hired after the deal was done.

I find this hilarious. The management is supposed to seek Aaron's counsel on the future head coach!? At best of course it would be a courtesy gesture. But why should they be expected to even do that much?

I think AR has lost his perspective. I still like the guy and appreciate his skill, intelligence & sincerity. His expectation that the NFL will genuflect to his class (senior HOF players) is damn funny. Do you think Ron Wolf consulted Reggie White about Mike Holmgren's replacement? I know we are in a slightly different era, but the players aren't running teams quite yet.

[Jaire]

I fell asleep during this detail of the AR presser: Rodgers is disappointed that he only heard about LaFlower being hired after the deal was done.

I find this hilarious. The management is supposed to seek Aaron's counsel on the future head coach!? At best of course it would be a courtesy gesture. But why should they be expected to even do that much?

I think AR has lost his perspective. I still like the guy and appreciate his skill, intelligence & sincerity. His expectation that the NFL will genuflect to his class (senior HOF players) is damn funny. Do you think Ron Wolf consulted Reggie White about Mike Holmgren's replacement? I know we are in a slightly different era, but the players aren't running teams quite yet.


1) That was to dispel the myth (one of many) that AR picked MLF. Nothing more.

2) again AR has had no say in any decisions at all: not even his #4WR. Compare to Peyton who actually picked round ones, ran the offense, & was the OC1. There's a balance between these extremes. AR was just dispeling some myths. Moreover, he had the worst defense of any premier QB in 40 years (I've gone over all the records): it's not close. AR has carried a lot of water for this team and is now getting booted after an MVP season: cannot even get a 2022 season guaranteed.

[ThunderDan]

1) That was to dispel the myth (one of many) that AR picked MLF. Nothing more.

2) again AR has had no say in any decisions at all: not even his #4WR. Compare to Peyton who actually picked round ones, ran the offense, & was the OC1. There's a balance between these extremes. AR was just dispeling some myths. Moreover, he had the worst defense of any premier QB in 40 years (I've gone over all the records): it's not close. AR has carried a lot of water for this team and is now getting booted after an MVP season: cannot even get a 2022 season guaranteed.
How many Super Bowls has Indy won in the last 23 years with Manning and Luck? Less than GB or More or the same?

How many AFC Championship games?

[RashanGary]

1) That was to dispel the myth (one of many) that AR picked MLF. Nothing more.

2) again AR has had no say in any decisions at all: not even his #4WR. Compare to Peyton who actually picked round ones, ran the offense, & was the OC1. There's a balance between these extremes. AR was just dispeling some myths. Moreover, he had the worst defense of any premier QB in 40 years (I've gone over all the records): it's not close. AR has carried a lot of water for this team and is now getting booted after an MVP season: cannot even get a 2022 season guaranteed.

You greatly under sell the offenses that Rodgers has had the privilege to play on. Outside of 2017 and 2018, he's had some of.the best combination of OL and skill players in the league. A huge part of the offenses success has been that supporting cast. A part of Rodgers legacy is that he always played on good offenses and a huge part of the credit goes to TT and Gute for assembling that.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers is one of the luckiest QB's in NFL history in terms of playing on good offenses and racking up stats. He's one of the unluckiest in terms of playing with bad defenses and STs so not winning championships.

But to say Rodgers played on crap offenses and carried teams is a joke. There's not much separating Rodgers, Brady or Rivers. Rodgers got stat lucky. Brady got championship lucky. Rivers got the shaft.

[hoosier]

Packers have made a living on cutting ties with aging players a year before it's time rather than waiting till it's too late. I can sympathize with Rodgers, who has developed personal relationships with all of those guys, he's sad to see them go and feels it sucks to see them treated as used up commodities. But that is exactly why there should not be a place for him at the general management table. If the front office could have done something to smooth over the wrinkled feathers, maybe offer to hold a TJ Lang day, or create the illusion that the QB has a say in personnel decisions, that would have been a smart move. Maybe Cobb is a step in that direction.

[Harlan Huckleby]

AR has carried a lot of water for this team and is now getting booted after an MVP season: cannot even get a 2022 season guaranteed.

AR had a contract thru 2023, plenty of guaranteed money. They voided 2023 year to *accommodate* Rodgers. AR didn't have to agree to that move.

It is possible that FO is sick of AR's act and now prefer that he leave in a trade next spring. But to suggest that this is the Packers unilaterally pressing for AR's exit is not a fair reading.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Packers have made a living on cutting ties with aging players a year before it's time rather than waiting till it's too late. I can sympathize with Rodgers, who has developed personal relationships with all of those guys,

Come to think of it, wasn't TT the pioneer of the perpetually young roster?

[texaspackerbacker]

Well, I saw the Gutekunst press conference now, and I'm back to be very negative about the whole situation. Every time he was asked about beyond 2021, he ducked it and said he's just focused on this season. That sucks, IMO.

[Jaire]

Rodgers is one of the luckiest QB's in NFL history in terms of playing on good offenses and racking up stats. He's one of the unluckiest in terms of playing with bad defenses and STs so not winning championships.

But to say Rodgers played on crap offenses and carried teams is a joke. There's not much separating Rodgers, Brady or Rivers. Rodgers got stat lucky. Brady got championship lucky. Rivers got the shaft.


What are you talking about??

I said defense. Please reread. And you don't win without defense. Even the few low rated defenses that won a Superbowl played very well in the post season. In fact I cannot even think of a team that had a bad defense and won.

Manning's Indy teams had better defenses than AR. And Manning choked in the playoffs.

As to offense, I said nothing. But AR has a lot to do with the success of the O. Look at the LT in 2011 (and the early playoff exit). Aaron's olines as good as they have been are not on Brady's level. His second best WR in 2019 was Kumeriw out of camp. That's not some juggernaut. In ten years, they only drafted one WR in round one or two. In TEN years (because they have been playing catch up to fill a depleted roster for four years.) How did they load it up for Aaron? Please.

That said, and I've said it before, AR had a very talented team last year and this. And I expect the defense to make a jump and they played a good post season last year: just a piece or two away.

But no one can deny they burned a lot of picks: Randall, Rollins, King (passing on Watt), Josh Jones, Haha, Jackson. These were bad picks at the time, largely because TT refused to move up in drafts. Also because they did not keep Hayward, Hyde & Charles: who knows if that was Capers or the FO or both.

Both Rivers and Brady had way better defenses consistently. I have AR a tier above both tbh. Especially Brady benefited from really good defenses. Last year's Bucs were one of the three best Superbowl defenses I have seen in 10 years.


Regardless, my point stands. AR carried this team.

[Jaire]

AR had a contract thru 2023, plenty of guaranteed money. They voided 2023 year to *accommodate* Rodgers. AR didn't have to agree to that move.

It is possible that FO is sick of AR's act and now prefer that he leave in a trade next spring. But to suggest that this is the Packers unilaterally pressing for AR's exit is not a fair reading.



They have prepared and still are preparing to move from him next year: if Jordan is decent, AR is traded. Was and is the plan..

How I see it. How Brandt sees it. How many others see it. AR has always wanted to stay. Still does. He just wants some say in things. But they don't want him back. His contract is set to move him in 2022. Cutting off 2023 does nothing for anyone. It's irrelevant really.

important to note: there is no new contract still

[texaspackerbacker]

Rodgers is one of the luckiest QB's in NFL history in terms of playing on good offenses and racking up stats. He's one of the unluckiest in terms of playing with bad defenses and STs so not winning championships.

But to say Rodgers played on crap offenses and carried teams is a joke. There's not much separating Rodgers, Brady or Rivers. Rodgers got stat lucky. Brady got championship lucky. Rivers got the shaft.

I'd dispute that "luckiest" part. Most of the rest of them are overrated particularly because Aaron Rodgers made/makes them better. O Line for sure, Receivers almost for sure, RBs to some extent, even defense due to the fact that Rodgers got them ahead in a lot of games and took a lot of time off the clock.

Unluckiest because of bad defense? maybe, not really quite as bad as you picture it. Bad special teams? yeah, that certainly seems to be true - arguably because Aaron Rodgers was not a factor one way or the other with special teams. Crap offenses? No, that would be too extreme, but Rodgers "carried the team"? Damn right he did.

The three QBs you compared? Rivers doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as the other two. The "shaft" he got primarily was an attitude to not be careful about not throwing it to the other team. Brady versus Rodgers? If I was a fan of any of the other 30 teams than the Packers and Patriots, in other words, neutral about Brady and Rodgers, I'm pretty sure I'd still see Rodgers as clearly a better player than Brady. Brady had better players around him, but not by a large margin. Brady had a better GM and coaching staff that led to the Super Bowls? Yeah, clearly he did.

[red]

Rodgers said what some of us have been saying all along. When he looked at the cap it was obvious 2021 would be his last, with a chance they would move on after 2020.

He said he wanted the cap number reworked so they couldn't just dump him after this season. He said he didn't want more money, he just wanted the cap hit changed

They would not do that, and I think he said the two year extension they offered him wouldn't do that, and the rework deal didn't fix that

So nothing had changed. The FO can still can him after this season like they've wanted to do all along, they just have made it look like Aarons has some kind of say in the matter by voiding the last year that they had no intensions of keeping him for anyways

[RashanGary]

What are you talking about??

I said defense. Please reread. And you don't win without defense. Even the few low rated defenses that won a Superbowl played very well in the post season. In fact I cannot even think of a team that had a bad defense and won.

Manning's Indy teams had better defenses than AR. And Manning choked in the playoffs.

As to offense, I said nothing. But AR has a lot to do with the success of the O. Look at the LT in 2011 (and the early playoff exit). Aaron's olines as good as they have been are not on Brady's level. His second best WR in 2019 was Kumeriw out of camp. That's not some juggernaut. In ten years, they only drafted one WR in round one or two. In TEN years (because they have been playing catch up to fill a depleted roster for four years.) How did they load it up for Aaron? Please.

That said, and I've said it before, AR had a very talented team last year and this. And I expect the defense to make a jump and they played a good post season last year: just a piece or two away.

But no one can deny they burned a lot of picks: Randall, Rollins, King (passing on Watt), Josh Jones, Haha, Jackson. These were bad picks at the time, largely because TT refused to move up in drafts. Also because they did not keep Hayward, Hyde & Charles: who knows if that was Capers or the FO or both.

Both Rivers and Brady had way better defenses consistently. I have AR a tier above both tbh. Especially Brady benefited from really good defenses. Last year's Bucs were one of the three best Superbowl defenses I have seen in 10 years.


Regardless, my point stands. AR carried this team.

A big part of Aarons legacy is the stats and the success. A big part of the stats and the success were playing with OLs like Bakh/Sitton/Lindsley/Lang/Bulaga or with receivers like Jennings/Jones/Nelson or Nelson/Cobb/Adams, etc...

What I'm saying is most people use stats to prop up Rodgers greatness but when he had suspect offenses (2017/2018) he didn't have that kind of statistical success.

Rodgers isnt any better than Brady or Rivers IMHO but rather was luckier to play on better offenses more consistently.

Rodgers has been blessed in Green Bay. He buys the press about how great he is, and doesn't give nearly the credit to the offenses around him.

I absolutely do not buy Rodgers GOAT talk. He's in the conversation of best QB's but I like Rivers and Brady and Brees better in a lot of ways. He's just one of a handful. The idol worship dismisses the team nature of offense and is just wrong imho.

[Jaire]

Look I have a right to my opinion and reasons for it.

Before this year I had a top ten QBs. I have AR now a tier above. So do many. It's in no way shape or form idol worship. Rivers is a great QB. Just a tier below and his arm was done last year. His last hurrah. Good for him. Very fun QB, among my favs to watch along with Favre. Every QB at tge top is unique imo. Very hard to rank. Just that AR is I think underrated and does so many things no one else ever did. Just my opinion.

Cheers

[Jaire]

What I'm saying is most people use stats to prop up Rodgers greatness but when he had suspect offenses (2017/2018) he didn't have that kind of statistical success.

.

2017: he went 4 and 3
2018: played on a broken leg





2020: he bought into a system that is way easier on the QB. It's not easy to compare these things. Anyways, you don't see what I see that sets him apart in my view.

[Jaire]

Sorry to post so much.

AR signed. I wonder if he brought Kelly in also. AR gets Cobb & Kelly. Let's see if it's enough.

Sounds like no real concessions made to Rodgers. The 2023 year is meaningless imo: because AR will be on another team or sign a new contract before start of next year.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1420854957646000128?s=20

[Bretsky]

Well, I saw the Gutekunst press conference now, and I'm back to be very negative about the whole situation. Every time he was asked about beyond 2021, he ducked it and said he's just focused on this season. That sucks, IMO.


They should BAN Gutebag from speaking to the Press; every word he spews just makes him sound like more of an idiot. And he's an OK GM; just don't let him talk

[Bretsky]

SIDENOTE: Arod's presser without any notes was pretty outstanding..the details he went through

But it kind of sounded like an exit interview

[ThunderDan]

Payton Manning had 13 seasons in Indy. They made the AFC Championship game only 3 times. They did make 2 Super Bowls, winning 1 and losing 1.

[ThunderDan]

ARod has started for 13 years for the Pack.

5 NFC Championships. 1 Super Bowl win.

[King Friday]

At this point, I see no way that Rodgers is back in Green Bay for next season. The front office did what they had to do for Rodgers to play in 2021, but there appears no real bridge to the kind of change that Rodgers is pushing for. I believe the front office sees a chance to get a reasonable return in a trade and then transition to a younger guy on a cheap contract to keep as much of the other talent on the team as possible. This front office builds a comprehensive roster plan and generally sticks to it. When they don't show interest in bringing back a veteran, it is because he doesn't fit their plan. That is just the cold hard truth, and it will not change for anyone...even a HOF caliber QB like Rodgers. To me, the lack of an ability to connect with your top players is not a good trait for the front office. Gute better hope Love comes out balling next year, or his seat will catch fire.

[texaspackerbacker]

Rodgers said what some of us have been saying all along. When he looked at the cap it was obvious 2021 would be his last, with a chance they would move on after 2020.

He said he wanted the cap number reworked so they couldn't just dump him after this season. He said he didn't want more money, he just wanted the cap hit changed

They would not do that, and I think he said the two year extension they offered him wouldn't do that, and the rework deal didn't fix that

So nothing had changed. The FO can still can him after this season like they've wanted to do all along, they just have made it look like Aarons has some kind of say in the matter by voiding the last year that they had no intensions of keeping him for anyways

Good Points. You could certainly make the case, though, that his agent or even Rodgers himself should have seen that coming when they negotiated his contract and/or his latest restructure. Blame, however, clearly goes to Gutekunst and whoever might be advising him, assuming it's true they have the incredibly stupid idea that getting rid of Rodgers after '21 or even after '22 or several years after that is a good thing. How can they be that damn dumb?

[Harlan Huckleby]

At this point, I see no way that Rodgers is back in Green Bay for next season. The front office did what they had to do for Rodgers to play in 2021, but there appears no real bridge to the kind of change that Rodgers is pushing for. I believe the front office sees a chance to get a reasonable return in a trade and then transition to a younger guy on a cheap contract to keep as much of the other talent on the team as possible. This front office builds a comprehensive roster plan and generally sticks to it. When they don't show interest in bringing back a veteran, it is because he doesn't fit their plan. That is just the cold hard truth, and it will not change for anyone...even a HOF caliber QB like Rodgers. To me, the lack of an ability to connect with your top players is not a good trait for the front office. Gute better hope Love comes out balling next year, or his seat will catch fire.
sounds bout right

[texaspackerbacker]

At this point, I see no way that Rodgers is back in Green Bay for next season. The front office did what they had to do for Rodgers to play in 2021, but there appears no real bridge to the kind of change that Rodgers is pushing for. I believe the front office sees a chance to get a reasonable return in a trade and then transition to a younger guy on a cheap contract to keep as much of the other talent on the team as possible. This front office builds a comprehensive roster plan and generally sticks to it. When they don't show interest in bringing back a veteran, it is because he doesn't fit their plan. That is just the cold hard truth, and it will not change for anyone...even a HOF caliber QB like Rodgers. To me, the lack of an ability to connect with your top players is not a good trait for the front office. Gute better hope Love comes out balling next year, or his seat will catch fire.

I hate to say it, but I agree. The only hope I can see is if somebody has the clout to overrule Gutekunst (or get rid of him). The only one like that would seem to be Murphy, and he seems to be disturbingly and stupidly like minded with Gutekunst. Is there a chance next off-season for a groundswell of fans, a movement to influence the board of directors or something? Probably not.

[Vincenzo]

At this point, I see no way that Rodgers is back in Green Bay for next season. The front office did what they had to do for Rodgers to play in 2021, but there appears no real bridge to the kind of change that Rodgers is pushing for. I believe the front office sees a chance to get a reasonable return in a trade and then transition to a younger guy on a cheap contract to keep as much of the other talent on the team as possible. This front office builds a comprehensive roster plan and generally sticks to it. When they don't show interest in bringing back a veteran, it is because he doesn't fit their plan. That is just the cold hard truth, and it will not change for anyone...even a HOF caliber QB like Rodgers. To me, the lack of an ability to connect with your top players is not a good trait for the front office. Gute better hope Love comes out balling next year, or his seat will catch fire.
Wasn’t it Scooter Maclean who was sitting playing cards with the guys and asked what to do?
Can you imagine what Lombardi would say to Aaron Rodgers? I bet he would have made a phone call and said you’ve been traded to the CFL.
I get it that McLean and Lombardi were 50 and 60 years ago but not much has changed when it comes to managing an NFL football team.
What the hell is Rodgers trying to pull? Surely it’s all about posturing for the control of the offense, but perhaps the Brat has issues with taking direction. Sorry but none of this makes any sense in a professional world! He mentions a bunch of players from the past who didn’t get contracts- well, too bad. It’s not all about snapping butts with towels in the locker room.
Part of me wishes the team would have cut their losses and moved on.

[call_me_ishmael]

Good Points. You could certainly make the case, though, that his agent or even Rodgers himself should have seen that coming when they negotiated his contract and/or his latest restructure. Blame, however, clearly goes to Gutekunst and whoever might be advising him, assuming it's true they have the incredibly stupid idea that getting rid of Rodgers after '21 or even after '22 or several years after that is a good thing. How can they be that damn dumb?

Hubris.


Payton Manning had 13 seasons in Indy. They made the AFC Championship game only 3 times. They did make 2 Super Bowls, winning 1 and losing 1.

Brady. And he underachieved too.


Rodgers said what some of us have been saying all along. When he looked at the cap it was obvious 2021 would be his last, with a chance they would move on after 2020.

He said he wanted the cap number reworked so they couldn't just dump him after this season. He said he didn't want more money, he just wanted the cap hit changed

They would not do that, and I think he said the two year extension they offered him wouldn't do that, and the rework deal didn't fix that

So nothing had changed. The FO can still can him after this season like they've wanted to do all along, they just have made it look like Aarons has some kind of say in the matter by voiding the last year that they had no intensions of keeping him for anyways

100% the plan and always has been. Hopefully Jordan is really good. I doubt he will be.


Similar to Brees, Rivers, Manning, Russel Wilson, etc. Other than New England, no one did much better.

Brees, Rivers, Wilson, etc aren't Aaron Rodgers. And they weren't there for 30 years straight either.

Manning is a unique case. He has 2 chips though. He also had to go through Brady year after year. That's tough given Brady's track record.


Good Point, RG. You basically beat me to saying that.

I'd absolutely say, the "Packer way" has been working for 30 years or so.

If we lose the GOAT QB after this season, though, because the FO pretty much forced him out or at least didn't try hard enough to keep him, then I'd say the "Packer way" just stopped working.

If it's been working, would you say it'll continue to work? If so, they why do you care if Rodgers goes? They'll surely get another HOF QB because it's the Packer way.

[Sparkey]

Well, I saw the Gutekunst press conference now, and I'm back to be very negative about the whole situation. Every time he was asked about beyond 2021, he ducked it and said he's just focused on this season. That sucks, IMO.

TPB, what is he supposed to say ? Especially with all the "media pukes" waiting to pounce on any thing he says ?

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't have any animosity towards Rodgers after his press conference and then watching him work with Love in training camp. Bottom line: he wants to retire as a Packer. My only problem is that he seems to assume he has no chance of doing that with the drafting of Love. However, if he wins Super Bowls and/or continues to play at MVP level, the Packers aren't going to move on from him (see Brady and Jimmy G in New England). Brady didn't raise a stink. He just continued to be a better QB than Jimmy G, and the Patriots moved Jimmy G. That could happen here. Who knows? Maybe he knows Love has a great future and sees the writing on the wall.

[RashanGary]

Who knows? Maybe he knows Love has a great future and sees the writing on the wall.

Preseason will be must watch TV

[call_me_ishmael]

I don't have any animosity towards Rodgers after his press conference and then watching him work with Love in training camp. Bottom line: he wants to retire as a Packer. My only problem is that he seems to assume he has no chance of doing that with the drafting of Love. However, if he wins Super Bowls and/or continues to play at MVP level, the Packers aren't going to move on from him (see Brady and Jimmy G in New England). Brady didn't raise a stink. He just continued to be a better QB than Jimmy G, and the Patriots moved Jimmy G. That could happen here. Who knows? Maybe he knows Love has a great future and sees the writing on the wall.

But that's demonstrably not true, right? The Packers moved on from an all-pro QB in 2007-2008.

I also think "being in the best in the world or you lose your job" isn't nearly as fair as a competition. Does anyone think Love will be better than Rodgers? Would he beat him out in a fair competition? If he does, then by all means he should be the starter, but I really don't see that happening.

Let's say Rodgers has a great year, they get the NFCC and lose because the defense fucks something up but they still put up 31 points. Not a doubt in my mind they're moving on still. They alerady made their choice. What happens this year doesn't matter.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers was only part of one rebuild (2017/2018) but another one is on the salary cap horizon. His last three years in Green Bay (2019, 2020, 2021) will be three great year's to be in Green Bay. They've gone all out on spending. Hopefully the last dance story line will be enough to boost the Packers into some rigged game status and we win a lucky bradyesque type championship.

[Jaire]

I don't see a rebuild.

The core going forward is pretty clear:
Clark, Jaire, Savage, Gary
Bakh, Jenkins, this young Oline, Dillon, Jones & most the offense. Lazard & MVS -- even Tonyan are probably back.

The only guys likely leaving are Marcedes, Z, Preston, Adams. That's not a huge change. Z will be here through 2022.

(Also I think the cap goes up a lot next year.)

[Harlan Huckleby]

Preseason will be must watch TV
preseason is my favorite football every year. That's when the fights are raging at packerrats, the armchair GMs are strutting, Tom Silverstein & Bob McGinn are predicting cuts, the backup QB looks like Superman against scrubs. This is the best time. I'll be bored by Halloween, then get excited again closer to playoffs.

[HarveyWallbangers]

But that's demonstrably not true, right? The Packers moved on from an all-pro QB in 2007-2008.

Different GM now--that has shown he does things differently than the old GM, so that's probably about as relevant as the Patriots situation. Also, Rodgers is better than Favre was then, Love is not as good as Rodgers then (he had been here three years and had shown in preseason and real games that he might be something), and Favre talked retirement every year while Rodgers wants to play for several more years.

Favre didn't play at ARod's level. In 2007 Brady threw 50 TDs against 8 interceptions, Favre threw 28 TDs against 15 interceptions. In 2020 Rodgers threw 48 TDs against 5 interceptions.

[RashanGary]

preseason is my favorite football every year. That's when the fights are raging at packerrats, the armchair GMs are strutting, Tom Silverstein & Bob McGinn are predicting cuts, the backup QB looks like Superman against scrubs. This is the best time. I'll be bored by Halloween, then get excited again closer to playoffs.

You are one of the preseason warriors here. I'm usually here for it too.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I don't have any animosity towards Rodgers after his press conference and then watching him work with Love in training camp. Bottom line: he wants to retire as a Packer. My only problem is that he seems to assume he has no chance of doing that with the drafting of Love. However, if he wins Super Bowls and/or continues to play at MVP level, the Packers aren't going to move on from him (see Brady and Jimmy G in New England). Brady didn't raise a stink. He just continued to be a better QB than Jimmy G, and the Patriots moved Jimmy G. That could happen here. Who knows? Maybe he knows Love has a great future and sees the writing on the wall.

Actually, Belichick loved Garoppolo; didn’t want to trade the Greek Reek. Brady didn’t raise a stink publicly, but he went to the owner and was like, it’s either me or Garoppolo. Owner forced Belichick to trade Garoppolo. In essence, Brady pretty much got rid of his replacement.

Source? https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/hotread180105/beginning-end-new-england-patriots-robert-kraft-tom-brady-bill-belichick-internal-power-struggle


Belichick met with Kraft to discuss the quarterback situation. According to staffers, the meeting ran long, lasting half the day and pushing back Belichick's other meetings. The office was buzzing. The meeting ended with a clear mandate to Belichick: trade Garoppolo because he would not be in the team's long-term plans, and then, once again, find the best quarterback in the draft and develop him. Belichick was furious and demoralized, according to friends. But in the end, he did what he asks of his players and coaches: He did his job.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Like I said, after carrying the Packers for so fucking long on his back, Rodgers has earned the right to play GM.

Without the Great Arm of Butte, the Pack ain’t any different from the J-Ville Jaguars.

[King Friday]

I don't have any animosity towards Rodgers after his press conference and then watching him work with Love in training camp. Bottom line: he wants to retire as a Packer. My only problem is that he seems to assume he has no chance of doing that with the drafting of Love. However, if he wins Super Bowls and/or continues to play at MVP level, the Packers aren't going to move on from him (see Brady and Jimmy G in New England). Brady didn't raise a stink. He just continued to be a better QB than Jimmy G, and the Patriots moved Jimmy G. That could happen here. Who knows? Maybe he knows Love has a great future and sees the writing on the wall.

Brady absolutely raised a stink, just not publicly. The only reason Jimmy G was moved would've resulted from Brady. Belichick wanted to retain Jimmy G, but Brady went over his head to Kraft and got the kid shipped out.

Rodgers doesn't have an owner to go to. Gute and Murphy are linked in lockstep. Thus, we are here.

The reason Brady didn't finish in NE was a direct result of his displeasure with Belichick regarding his eventual replacement. Tom wanted to stick it to Belichick.

[texaspackerbacker]

TPB, what is he supposed to say ? Especially with all the "media pukes" waiting to pounce on any thing he says ?

Ideally, he would say "we are pulling out all stops to retain Aaron Rodgers for as long as he wants to play in the NFL", not "it's always a year to year thing. we'll see what happens", etc. Fuck that, and fuck Gutekunst.

[texaspackerbacker]

Like I said, after carrying the Packers for so fucking long on his back, Rodgers has earned the right to play GM.

Without the Great Arm of Butte, the Pack ain’t any different from the J-Ville Jaguars.

+ 1 - maybe not quite as bad as the Jags, but close. Just look how the bottom fell out for the Patriots when Brady left, and arguably Rodgers means more to Green Bay than Brady did to N.E.

[Jaire]

+ 1 - maybe not quite as bad as the Jags, but close. Just look how the bottom fell out for the Patriots when Brady left, and arguably Rodgers means more to Green Bay than Brady did to N.E.

New England needed a rebuild. And Cam going down hurt them. They are now reloaded with a healthy Cam and the future (good reports on the rook).

New Orleans should be a disaster this year. They kicked that can down the road for four years. We are on year two, but it is not nearly as bad as it looks. The rebuild in GB is done really, and done early. Cap probs are because of covid. The new cap sould be way above 210 next year, certainly by 2023 with the new media deal money. Teams are going over the cap because it's not real imo.


But the main thing is that AR ought to retire in GB. Winning a Superbowl may be the cure for the rifts. Cuz Love is not AR (and likely never will be). There will be a drop off but nothing like the Jags imo.

[Harlan Huckleby]

+ 1 - maybe not quite as bad as the Jags, but close. Just look how the bottom fell out for the Patriots when Brady left, and arguably Rodgers means more to Green Bay than Brady did to N.E.

The transition was going to come pretty soon regardless of what Packer management did.

We agree that best case was to keep AR happy for 3 more seasons. I'm not sure that was possible. Arod is so idealistic. He kept framing his request as "more information to do my job better." But he clearly wanted a major voice at the management table. Most GMs would rather dump Rodgers than have to clear decisions on veteran cuts with him.

[Bossman641]

Rodgers should stick to playing QB and leave GM for the front office. The big misses were Hayward and Hyde, with Peppers and Woodson defensible from either side. All others were correct to move on from the players. As far as keeping Jordy over signing Jimmy Graham, wasn't Rodgers involved in recruiting Graham in the first place?

One other thing....for all this talk about doing right by veterans, somebody please tell me a team who does it "the right way". The Pats are notorious for getting rid of veterans. The Chargers had no problem moving Rivers. The Saints are the only team I can think of and they're in salary hell.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The Saints are the only team I can take think of and they're in salary hell.

I think Brees played a year too long, maybe two. I haven't looked at stats, just going by how he looked when I caught their games.

[call_me_ishmael]

Rodgers should stick to playing QB and leave GM for the front office. The big misses were Hayward and Hyde, with Peppers and Woodson defensible from either side. All others were correct to move on from the players. As far as keeping Jordy over signing Jimmy Graham, wasn't Rodgers involved in recruiting Graham in the first place?

One other thing....for all this talk about doing right by veterans, somebody please tell me a team who does it "the right way". The Pats are notorious for getting rid of veterans. The Chargers had no problem moving Rivers. The Saints are the only team I can think of and they're in salary hell.

The only reason this is a talking point IMO is because you cannot come outright and say "you're moving from ME is a problem" without sounding like a dick.

But yeah, unquestionably they have screwed up a few of these and maybe should roll the dice with their own guys more. I know I would. Dance with the girl you brought.

[Bossman641]

The only reason this is a talking point IMO is because you cannot come outright and say "you're moving from ME is a problem" without sounding like a dick.

But yeah, unquestionably they have screwed up a few of these and maybe should roll the dice with their own guys more. I know I would. Dance with the girl you brought.

And then we'd be lamenting spending massive bucks on tj lang only to have him retire 1.5 yr later. You hit some, you miss some. It's hard to look at Rodgers list of players and agree with him. I think one of the reporters even brought this up to Rodgers during the conference and his reply was something along the lines of "they would have done better with me".

[Teamcheez1]

Who are the 12 players the Packers let go that co-GM Aaron Rodgers had an issue with?

[Bossman641]

Who are the 12 players the Packers let go that co-GM Aaron Rodgers had an issue with?

Cobb, Clay, Jordy, Woodson, James Jones, Kuhn, Hayward, Hyde, Peppers, Bulaga, Lang, Goode

[Harlan Huckleby]

And then we'd be lamenting spending massive bucks on tj lang only to have him retire 1.5 yr later. You hit some, you miss some. It's hard to look at Rodgers list of players and agree with him. I think one of the reporters even brought this up to Rodgers during the conference and his reply was something along the lines of "they would have done better with me".

That was Tom Silverstein who asked the hard question. I think Rodgers was saying that there are a lot of factors that make a player successful, and those guys were a proven fit for GB chemistry.

I agree with your bottom line, AR's expectations are unrealistic. John Elway got to be a GM after he retired as a player, not before.

[bobblehead]

The only reason this is a talking point IMO is because you cannot come outright and say "you're moving from ME is a problem" without sounding like a dick.

But yeah, unquestionably they have screwed up a few of these and maybe should roll the dice with their own guys more. I know I would. Dance with the girl you brought.

But I've already HAD the girl I brought. Can't a brother score some strange now and again?

Anyway, I can critique Gutes for some things. And TT dropped the ball on hyde and Tretter (who wasn't on "the list"). But I agree, this was all a great big passive aggressive play because they drafted Love and he can't really say that now, can he.

[Bretsky]

Listened to an interview with Andrew Brandt a couple days ago. Made reference to how Brett Favre would often come up and hang out with Bob Harlen.
Made reference that when he was there AROD would often come up by him and just chillax and hang out and enjoy time like they were friends.

It's very clear the atmosphere Marica and Gutebag have not sent up this type of atmosphere in GB.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Listened to an interview with Andrew Brandt a couple days ago. Made reference to how Brett Favre would often come up and hang out with Bob Harlen.
Made reference that when he was there AROD would often come up by him and just chillax and hang out and enjoy time like they were friends.

It's very clear the atmosphere Marica and Gutebag have not sent up this type of atmosphere in GB.


Can you imagine raising a stink at your workplace because the new boss doesn't want to be chill friends?

[Bretsky]

Can you imagine raising a stink at your workplace because the new boss doesn't want to be chill friends?


pretty ignorant generalization IMO

If you are an important factor to a teams success do you feel like there should be a positive atmosphere set up so you feel like part of the success ?

[Harlan Huckleby]

pretty ignorant generalization IMO

If you are an important factor to a teams success do you feel like there should be a positive atmosphere set up so you feel like part of the success ?

I don't think AR cares about a "positive atmosphere" such as you described. And there certainly is no lack of glory for him when the team succeeds. He wants more control.

AR not only wants to be GM, he wants to be offensive coordinator. He has forever been pissed off at the coaches decisions.

I don't mind AR's personality, he's really smart and wants to win. He butts head with authority. Lots of QBs are inclined this way.

[TateM30]

still dont think they have built up the team well enough around him and everyone knew the teams flaws last season.

if they go the extra mile this year i think it will be down to others failing.

[bobblehead]

I just had a thought/epiphany. If gutes really does want to move on from Rodgers after this season and Rodgers doesn't really want to go (he just wants his version of respect), then Rodgers really screwed the pooch.

At seasons end if Gutes deals ARod for 3 firsts its not like ARod can veto the deal. He just spent an entire offseason of drama crying about wanting to leave and last dance and all. How does he turn around and say "just kidding yo, I really don't want to be traded". He can't. He actually has made it easy for Gutes to trade him and avoid most of the fallout for the decision.

[call_me_ishmael]

He wants a new contract, I don’t think he cares where it is as long as he can win. I, too, would like a new contract with guarantees. Who wouldn’t? I get why he’s mad and I get why the Packers won’t do it, but I also think it’s a bad decision that at this point and time.

[bobblehead]

He wants a new contract, I don’t think he cares where it is as long as he can win. I, too, would like a new contract with guarantees. Who wouldn’t? I get why he’s mad and I get why the Packers won’t do it, but I also think it’s a bad decision that at this point and time.

I think what he really wants is a contract that locks him into Green Bay so they CAN'T move on to Love. The previous deal was unworkable. With the restructure they did to get him in this season I think the best cap move is to extend him after the season although trading him could be done with much pain. That was calculated on his part. He wants to drop another MVP performance on them and force the issue. But again I stress, that would also give them max trade value for him. If they like Love and are willing to move on he made it easy on them. If he had done nothing all off season, come in, dropped a top 3 MVP voting season on them no way Gutes could trade him without major fall out. Now, Gutes can deal him and simply say "we're sad to see him go, but its what he wanted."

[texaspackerbacker]

Yes, simple as that, if as you say, that's what he wants, then if he gets what he wants, literally everybody wins, Rodgers, Packer fans, LaFleur, even Gutekunst. If he doesn't get what he wants, and he is gone after another year or two, then everybody loses, even Gutekunst. I won't say I'm rooting against Love, but I sure wouldn't mind seeing him flounder today - that would increase the odds of Rodgers getting what he wants and all of us winning.

[call_me_ishmael]

I think what he really wants is a contract that locks him into Green Bay so they CAN'T move on to Love. The previous deal was unworkable. With the restructure they did to get him in this season I think the best cap move is to extend him after the season although trading him could be done with much pain. That was calculated on his part. He wants to drop another MVP performance on them and force the issue. But again I stress, that would also give them max trade value for him. If they like Love and are willing to move on he made it easy on them. If he had done nothing all off season, come in, dropped a top 3 MVP voting season on them no way Gutes could trade him without major fall out. Now, Gutes can deal him and simply say "we're sad to see him go, but its what he wanted."

Totally agree this is what he wanted and wants. If he lights it up again, will they try to extend him? I doubt it but I’m excited and hopefully to see.

[call_me_ishmael]

Yes, simple as that, if as you say, that's what he wants, then if he gets what he wants, literally everybody wins, Rodgers, Packer fans, LaFleur, even Gutekunst. If he doesn't get what he wants, and he is gone after another year or two, then everybody loses, even Gutekunst. I won't say I'm rooting against Love, but I sure wouldn't mind seeing him flounder today - that would increase the odds of Rodgers getting what he wants and all of us winning.

I think the Packers are more likely to be better the next 5 years of Love stinks it up in preseason. So we shall see what happens. I think he is as good as gone and the Packers made their choice, but he is gonna win the PR war against them again if he has a good season so I wouldn’t be surprised to see Gooter swallow his pride so his team is better situated in the short term.

[texaspackerbacker]

"Totally agree this is what he wanted and wants. If he lights it up again, will they try to extend him? I doubt it but I’m excited and hopefully to see." - CMI

If he does, and they don't, tar and feather Gutekunst and Murphy and run them out of town.

I agree with your other post too.

[scharpcheddar]

All just more pretend media propaganda

[call_me_ishmael]

"Totally agree this is what he wanted and wants. If he lights it up again, will they try to extend him? I doubt it but I’m excited and hopefully to see." - CMI

If he does, and they don't, tar and feather Gutekunst and Murphy and run them out of town.

I agree with your other post too.

Can’t tar and feather the owner and unfortunately most folks are very ego driven and would rather tear it down and build it in their own image than rely on the guy from the previous guy.

[texaspackerbacker]

Last I heard, Murphy ain't the owner. He answers to the board of directors who in a round about way at least, answer to public opinion. If fans really want you gone - like Dan Devine and a couple others over the years, they'll get rid of you. If they manage to lose Rodgers, and the team flounders as it inevitably will IMO, then there will be a huge amount of pressure to get rid of the leaders who made the badness happen.

I remember when Murphy was hired thinking "damn, what do we have, a Redskin guy? or whatever?" Before that, we had what? Judge Parins? I was fine with him - a loyal Green Bay person over some damn outsider. You can always hire football expertise. but you can't hire loyalty.

[Teamcheez1]

That Bart guy was a great hire. Loyalty over football expertise.

[Fritz]

And how about that Forrest Gregg hire? That was some good, serious loyalty there, too.

[texaspackerbacker]

The point is, Murphy and Gutekunst - assuming they aren't stupid - have something in mind other than what's good for the Packers and Packers fans. What that is I don't know - the bottom line financially or whatever? But clearly their goals are not what every Packer fan wants - winning football. Otherwise, they would NOT be doing their damnedest to drive away the GOAT QB.

You want to change the topic to the Starr hire and the Gregg hire? Throw in the Bengtson hire too. Those, I think, were misguided attempts to carry on the Lombardi tradition - failing to consider that Vince did it mostly through sheer force of will, which nobody else, even Starr had.

[bobblehead]

Just read an article quoting Rodgers:

“From a day-to-day (perspective), guys I see and talk to every day, guys like Preston Smith, and Allen Lazard, and Robert Tonyan, just the things that they talk about, that they’re into, I see a lot of growth in those guys. I see a lot of growth in other areas, too. Guys in the front office, coaches, and that’s really exciting to me… I’m not taking credit for any of it. I think that’d be the most egotistical thing to do. But I do know that part of my role is to continue to speak about things that are important to me, and positive and growth and that mindset is very important to me. And to see other people making those decisions to change and grow and better themselves is really cool.”

Dude, shut the fuck up. If you want to stay sign the contract and stop the passive aggressive bullshit trying to look like the big winner who changed the entire front office. "I'm not taking credit for any of it" Horseshit, you are trying to look like you really showed them and they are all bowing to your brilliance. Give it up. You might end up pissing Gutes off to the point that he decides to ship you off whether you want to or not. Personally I think Gutes is above that. He wouldn't make a petty choice to trade away a guy just cuz he is being a DBag, but you keep pushing and he might decide you aren't worth it.

[texaspackerbacker]

If those idiots in the front office who wanted to force him out, then hell yeah, he did change things for the better. We'll see how it all shakes out, but I've been saying all along, Rodgers will be in Green Bay for the foreseeable future - he damn well better be or the team is in the shitter. If imbeciles who didn't realize that before are now finally getting their heads out of their asses, then Rodgers will be here long term and the future is bright. If it goes the other way, the fans are screwed and fuck the front office bastards who caused it.

This statement from Rodgers looks like an olive branch thrown to Gutekunst and the other fools so they can give in from their previous idiocy looking too damn pathetic.

This whole thread shoulda been shitcanned a long time ago, but negativist fools keep dredging it up.

[call_me_ishmael]

Dude, shut the fuck up. If you want to stay sign the contract and stop the passive aggressive bullshit trying to look like the big winner who changed the entire front office. "I'm not taking credit for any of it" Horseshit, you are trying to look like you really showed them and they are all bowing to your brilliance. Give it up. You might end up pissing Gutes off to the point that he decides to ship you off whether you want to or not. Personally I think Gutes is above that. He wouldn't make a petty choice to trade away a guy just cuz he is being a DBag, but you keep pushing and he might decide you aren't worth it.

What contract is he signing? Per Aaron, they never offered him a contract with any guarantees beyond this or next year (I don't recall). So what is there to sign even? Meh, who knows what Gute's motivation is, but as I have said numerous times, from the day he picked Love, if he did that thinking Love was likely to win more games over the next 5 or 10 years for the Packers, he needs to have his head examined because that is extraorindarily unlikely. As always, my preferred path to getting a stud QB is to what the vast majority of other teams do that get studs - suck it up and pick #1.*

* My stance is as always if you do not have a top 5 QB to move on relentlessly and churn through them rapidly until you do.

[bobblehead]

If those idiots in the front office who wanted to force him out, then hell yeah, he did change things for the better. We'll see how it all shakes out, but I've been saying all along, Rodgers will be in Green Bay for the foreseeable future - he damn well better be or the team is in the shitter. If imbeciles who didn't realize that before are now finally getting their heads out of their asses, then Rodgers will be here long term and the future is bright. If it goes the other way, the fans are screwed and fuck the front office bastards who caused it.

This statement from Rodgers looks like an olive branch thrown to Gutekunst and the other fools so they can give in from their previous idiocy looking too damn pathetic.

This whole thread shoulda been shitcanned a long time ago, but negativist fools keep dredging it up.

To you and Rodgers it probably does look like an olive branch. To any thinking human being it looks like a guy gloating how he got you to change.

[bobblehead]

What contract is he signing? Per Aaron, they never offered him a contract with any guarantees beyond this or next year (I don't recall). So what is there to sign even? Meh, who knows what Gute's motivation is, but as I have said numerous times, from the day he picked Love, if he did that thinking Love was likely to win more games over the next 5 or 10 years for the Packers, he needs to have his head examined because that is extraorindarily unlikely. As always, my preferred path to getting a stud QB is to what the vast majority of other teams do that get studs - suck it up and pick #1.*

* My stance is as always if you do not have a top 5 QB to move on relentlessly and churn through them rapidly until you do.

Its the NFL. No one gets a 4 years garaunteed deal. They just don't work that way. You get a bunch of front money and small deals upfront. If you structure a deal with tons of front money and small deals on the back you put the team in instant cap hell. By all reports they offered him a record deal with a pretty hefty signing bonus that would have pretty much made him uncuttable for 2 more years. Thats about all any contract can do.

[Jaire]

Its the NFL. No one gets a 4 years garaunteed deal. They just don't work that way. You get a bunch of front money and small deals upfront. If you structure a deal with tons of front money and small deals on the back you put the team in instant cap hell. By all reports they offered him a record deal with a pretty hefty signing bonus that would have pretty much made him uncuttable for 2 more years. Thats about all any contract can do.

That's just B.S.

They never ever extended him. He is still on the trading block for next year. Every reliable report has said so. Brandt has said so consistently for six months now. They will trade him next year, unless Murphy & Gute change their mind. They are in the driver seat and have all the chips. Rodgers would have been very happy to sign a deal that assured him of staying in GB for two more years. As is, he is clearly on the trade block and likely to Denver where his fiancee's family is from. Not as ideal a division as GB's but a team that's really only missing a QB.

[texaspackerbacker]

To you and Rodgers it probably does look like an olive branch. To any thinking human being it looks like a guy gloating how he got you to change.

hahahahahaha Yeah, that too - gloat gloat gloat

The dumbasses needed to change!

[call_me_ishmael]

Its the NFL. No one gets a 4 years garaunteed deal. They just don't work that way. You get a bunch of front money and small deals upfront. If you structure a deal with tons of front money and small deals on the back you put the team in instant cap hell. By all reports they offered him a record deal with a pretty hefty signing bonus that would have pretty much made him uncuttable for 2 more years. Thats about all any contract can do.

He said that is not true, though. He emphatically stated that nothing in the contract suggested it would be guaranteed past this next year I believe.

Generally when a guarantee is essentially up the good players like Rodgers get a new deal.

[bobblehead]

In light of recent events this is a fun 82 page re read.

[RashanGary]

In light of recent events this is a fun 82 page re read.

People’s minds are exploding right now. Their hero is an anti vaxxer. Tex’s world is right.

[texaspackerbacker]

I feel better about all the shit after watching him today - partly for that reason, but mostly because he is in good shape/asymptomatic, which means he probably plays against Seattle.

[call_me_ishmael]

The Packers are a great team because Gootbag has done work. The best free agency any team has ever had with the 4 key contributors signing paired with these draft results:

Rashan Gary (1/12)
Jaire Alexander (1/18)
Darnell Savage (1/21)
Eric Stokes (1/29)
Elgton Jenkins (2/44)
AJ Dillon (2/62)
Josh Myers (2/62)
Amari Rodgers (3/85)
MVS (5/174)
Jon Runyan (6/192)
Kylin Hill (7/256)

I agree Amari Rodgers and Kylin Hill are reaches at this point but the rest are absolutely essential contributors. He has really done a nice job drafting to be honest.

[Bretsky]

The Packers are a great team because Gootbag has done work. The best free agency any team has ever had with the 4 key contributors signing paired with these draft results:

Rashan Gary (1/12)
Jaire Alexander (1/18)
Darnell Savage (1/21)
Eric Stokes (1/29)
Elgton Jenkins (2/44)
AJ Dillon (2/62)
Josh Myers (2/62)
Amari Rodgers (3/85)
MVS (5/174)
Jon Runyan (6/192)
Kylin Hill (7/256)

I agree Amari Rodgers and Kylin Hill are reaches at this point but the rest are absolutely essential contributors. He has really done a nice job drafting to be honest.



I tend to agree; now I'll step back (and sound like a broken record here) and note that having AROD gets us to 9 wins; so with an average GM we'll keep making the playoffs and make the occasional run.

But I give Gutebag Kudos. I still throw darts at him for using a 1st and 4th round pick for Jordan Love. But outside of that (and he may end up being right) he's been dam good using a combo of the draft and free agency to build an elite roster

[call_me_ishmael]

I just don't think that FA class gets enough love. Granted I don't follow the league closely but I just can't imagine classes like that happen often. 4 players all being premier contributors in year 3 seems crazy, and you know they are going to extend Amos and for sure would the RT if not for the guard being so talented/flexible that he is going to make them pay him as a tackle basically necessitating he is the RT going forward.