What do we have in Jordan Love?

[Spaulding]

With all the talk of Rodgers being done with the Packers I started to go back through old information on Love prior to last years draft and found that the following article sums of the possibility of team's (obviously including the Packers) views of Love being a top 10 prospect:

https://www.theringer.com/2020/4/7/21211318/jordan-love-2020-nfl-draft-polarizing-prospect (http://https://www.theringer.com/2020/4/7/21211318/jordan-love-2020-nfl-draft-polarizing-prospect)

I'm sure COVID didn't help Love acclimate to the speed of the NFL last year given the missed camps and preseason games.

Will be interesting to get camp talk this year.

[Bretsky]

I heard a few references today that Love looked less than impressive last year. May have been B.S. But media heads here it somewhere.

[red]

well, he was a first round pick that wasn't even active for any games last year

couldn't even beat out tim boyle last year, who the team just let walk this offseason without even trying to tender him

[King Friday]

Jordan Love is not yet ready for primetime. Rodgers isn't going scorched earth unless he had confidence that Love would embarrass Gute.

[smuggler]

Probably a starter. Possibly a star. Almost certainly not Aaron Rodgers.

[texaspackerbacker]

There would be a significant cap hit to cut him this year. He will probably be fairly cheap for his first 5 years. Ideally, we keep Rodgers that whole 5 and 1 more, as if Love proves to be good, we can re-sign him with a bonus and have a fairly low cap hit the first year of his second contract. If he turns out to be a piece of crap, we can cut him whenever it's feasible with the cap. The smart thing to do - which I still think the Packers will do - is to ride Rodgers as long as possible.

[red]

There would be a significant cap hit to cut him this year. He will probably be fairly cheap for his first 5 years. Ideally, we keep Rodgers that whole 5 and 1 more, as if Love proves to be good, we can re-sign him with a bonus and have a fairly low cap hit the first year of his second contract. If he turns out to be a piece of crap, we can cut him whenever it's feasible with the cap. The smart thing to do - which I still think the Packers will do - is to ride Rodgers as long as possible.

you keep saying this, about love not playing on his rookie deal

but that is not how things work. its a massive advantage to have a starting QB on his rookie deal

if you draft a QB to be a future starter, you want him starting as soon as possible to take advantage of his low cap number

[Joemailman]

I have a tough time evaluating aguy I've never seen play. Utah St. doesn't get televised a lot.

[red]

There would be a significant cap hit to cut him this year. He will probably be fairly cheap for his first 5 years. Ideally, we keep Rodgers that whole 5 and 1 more, as if Love proves to be good, we can re-sign him with a bonus and have a fairly low cap hit the first year of his second contract. If he turns out to be a piece of crap, we can cut him whenever it's feasible with the cap. The smart thing to do - which I still think the Packers will do - is to ride Rodgers as long as possible.
and just so you know

is we cut love right now or trade him , we would take a 10.1 million dollar cap hit

so yeah, getting rid of love isn't easy either

[texaspackerbacker]

That's what I said, except I thought it was $7 or 8 million, something like that.

If you luck into a Mahomes or maybe Russell Wilson, yeah, that starting a QB in his rookie contract years applies, but there's about 28-31 teams around the league that have QBs not named Aaron Rodgers and are not as good as the Packers even with Rodgers soaking up such a big slice of the cap, and a lot of those teams have young guys in their rookie contract years.

[red]

That's what I said, except I thought it was $7 or 8 million, something like that.

If you luck into a Mahomes or maybe Russell Wilson, yeah, that starting a QB in his rookie contract years applies, but there's about 28-31 teams around the league that have QBs not named Aaron Rodgers and are not as good as the Packers even with Rodgers soaking up such a big slice of the cap, and a lot of those teams have young guys in their rookie contract years.

the dead cap space is 10.1 million, his cap number this year is 2.something million. so if we get rid of him the cap number would be that 7.3 million thought you were thinking

so you're numbers right. i just didnt know if you knew the number, i was just trying to give you some

[bobblehead]

Probably a starter. Possibly a star. Almost certainly not Aaron Rodgers.

That applies to about 7 billion people globally if they all tried to be a QB. Only 2-3 could make an argument.

To the original post, we have a good backup I hope. A guy who can keep us in contention if Rodgers goes down. Hopefully we have Rodgers backup for next 3 years, but if Rodgers wants to feel butt hurt then hopefully we have a really good QB on a rookie deal with a brilliant HC.

[smuggler]

That applies to about 7 billion people globally if they all tried to be a QB. Only 2-3 could make an argument.


Precisely. In other words, we have a backup quarterback.

[RashanGary]

That applies to about 7 billion people globally if they all tried to be a QB. Only 2-3 could make an argument.

To the original post, we have a good backup I hope. A guy who can keep us in contention if Rodgers goes down. Hopefully we have Rodgers backup for next 3 years, but if Rodgers wants to feel butt hurt then hopefully we have a really good QB on a rookie deal with a brilliant HC.

Pretty much.

[bobblehead]

Didn't know where to put this, but I saw the Panthers picked up the 5th year option on Sam Darnold. Guessing that was over $25 million for the year for a guy who hasn't proven jack shit. I just can't believe teams moves regarding QBs. Honestly, offer Sam a 3 year extension for $30 million to prove he is the answer. What's he going to do, test the market for a guy who hasn't looked very good?

I guess I put it here due to the similar nature of Love and Darnold. Guys who haven't done much yet. 1st round picks. Yada yada.

[Sparkey]

Except Darnold has had 4 years of live practices and games to be who he is. Love had not had any of those opportunities. The only benefit he has is watching Rodgers and getting a year in the play book.

The year In college that Love had some talent around him he looked really good. The next year, after a lot of graduation losses on the online and wr, he wasn't as good. Seemed to try and force things. Not surprising, but hopefully a good lesson that he took to heart.

[Sparkey]

Todd McShays #3 QB in 2020 Draft. Ahead of Herbert.


https://youtu.be/a9rRvL48C78

[Sparkey]

https://youtu.be/gY8f0JlM9B8

[Sparkey]

Basically, Love has all the physical gifts needed to be a good NFL qb. Makes throws that you can't teach and can throw and improvise without have a perfect platform. Hopefully the coaches help him tap into his full potential.

[Bretsky]

We drafted a developmental QB in a year where we really couldn't develop him due to the pandemic. Listened to two scouts on radio the head of draft for PFW. One scout would have had him ahead of Mac Jones; one scout behind Mac Jones. The PFW guy would rate in along with the second tier for QB's this year (so lower than those guys).

He needs at least another year to develop as a passer; he's a good athlete though.

[Fritz]

There would be a significant cap hit to cut him this year. He will probably be fairly cheap for his first 5 years. Ideally, we keep Rodgers that whole 5 and 1 more, as if Love proves to be good, we can re-sign him with a bonus and have a fairly low cap hit the first year of his second contract. If he turns out to be a piece of crap, we can cut him whenever it's feasible with the cap. The smart thing to do - which I still think the Packers will do - is to ride Rodgers as long as possible.

It sure does sound like Rodgers, like my wife, does not want to be ridden any more.

On a more serious note, this of course is not about the money at all for Rodgers. He's got enough money to last two lifetimes. It's about ego. The Packers dared to draft someone high at the position he plays and he got his nose out of joint. When the Packers didn't bow low enough and immediately extend him, he decided he wasn't "appreciated" enough any more. Of course, he must have realized last year that the way he'd been playing/getting hurt the previous few years, he didn't have the cards to make a play. Maybe he even had some self-doubt. But his play this past year erased any doubts, and he had his trump card.

As a friend of mine pointed out, it is surely no accident that Rodgers let it be known on draft day, one year after the Packers drafted Love, that he wanted out of Green Bay. That's called being passive-aggressive. He trumped the draft day hoopla.

As much of a completely selfish and hypocritical jackass as he is ("Oooh, it was all about the close relationships I developed this year with my teammates. I love these guys."), he's still one of the all-time great QB's in the league, and it seems like he's still got some gas in the tank. My hope is that the Packers suck his dick enough so that he'd accept a two or even three year extension with all the dollars that will prove (for the moment) that Aaron really is loved and respected.

Then hope some linebacker doesn't take him out in the second game of the season.

That would give Love another year or two to develop. And if Rodgers is still playing great in two years, you can figure out what to do then.

But it sounds like that is not likely to happen. Rodgers seems to have, by most accounts, poured diesel fuel on the bridges and lit the match.

[run pMc]

He's a multiyear project (most likely 3 years due to Covid) but there's talent to work with. There's nothing wrong with drafting a backup to your 37 year old QB, especially if their previous 2 seasons were somewhat underwhelming.

Will Jordan Love realize his potential? The odds are against it, but lots of R1 picks -- especially QBs -- flame out. Finding a good one is incredibly valuable, and that's why 4-5 go high every year.

[Fritz]

He's a multiyear project (most likely 3 years due to Covid) but there's talent to work with. There's nothing wrong with drafting a backup to your 37 year old QB, especially if their previous 2 seasons were somewhat underwhelming.

Will Jordan Love realize his potential? The odds are against it, but lots of R1 picks -- especially QBs -- flame out. Finding a good one is incredibly valuable, and that's why 4-5 go high every year.

That's it exactly. Gutekunst's job isn't to soothe his high-strung quarterback's ego at the expense of the team's future. Yet, sadly, part of his job is to soothe his high-strung quarterback's ego - but to what extent? By not planning for the future at that position at all because it would hurt your star QB's feelings?

[George Cumby]

Kid is athletic AF with a live arm. Reminds me of Mahomes.

He's got real potential.

Comes down to coaching and providing him the support as he needs and what is between his ears.

[Fritz]

I hope he does not get thrown to the wolves this season. I think at least two years on the bench is the way to give a guy a chance to learn without destroying his confidence if he gets thrown in too quickly.

[sharpe1027]

I hope he does not get thrown to the wolves this season. I think at least two years on the bench is the way to give a guy a chance to learn without destroying his confidence if he gets thrown in too quickly.

At least he'd have a solid run game and set of receiving targets.

[George Cumby]

I hope he does not get thrown to the wolves this season. I think at least two years on the bench is the way to give a guy a chance to learn without destroying his confidence if he gets thrown in too quickly.

Agreed.

[Rastak]

It sure does sound like Rodgers, like my wife, does not want to be ridden any more.

On a more serious note, this of course is not about the money at all for Rodgers. He's got enough money to last two lifetimes. It's about ego. The Packers dared to draft someone high at the position he plays and he got his nose out of joint. When the Packers didn't bow low enough and immediately extend him, he decided he wasn't "appreciated" enough any more.


Man, that was funny. LOL is a stupid internet thing but I did literally laugh out loud and I think you are right. Man, that was funny.

[Fritz]

Glad we can still have a laugh here once in a while. Glad someone got the joke.

Good to see you around, Ras.

[call_me_ishmael]

If somebody fucks, they fuck right away. The Packers know how good he is. No doubt about it. ARod was throwing dimes right away in practice according to Brandt.

[Bretsky]

I hope he does not get thrown to the wolves this season. I think at least two years on the bench is the way to give a guy a chance to learn without destroying his confidence if he gets thrown in too quickly.


This is old school Fritz; draft a QB who is NFL ready, and win a SB while he's on the cheap in his rookie deal. Embrace the future :)))

[Fritz]

I think though that maybe teams are coming back around to the old way: let a guy sit for at least his first year, maybe two. Too many of the hotshots that you've invested your future into get thrown out there are get their confidence permanently damaged or get gun-shy after all the sacks they take cuz they see only chaos on the field, given the speed of the NFL game.

[bobblehead]

Except Darnold has had 4 years of live practices and games to be who he is. Love had not had any of those opportunities. The only benefit he has is watching Rodgers and getting a year in the play book.

The year In college that Love had some talent around him he looked really good. The next year, after a lot of graduation losses on the online and wr, he wasn't as good. Seemed to try and force things. Not surprising, but hopefully a good lesson that he took to heart.

My point was more regarding Darnold hasn't done anything yet, but they will pay him elite money for a year. I would offer him the 3 year deal for same money. If he doesn't sign it I would let him play this season and if he is lights out Franchise him while you work out a deal. To pay him the 5th year option based on his career so far is insane.

[RashanGary]

Basically, Love has all the physical gifts needed to be a good NFL qb. Makes throws that you can't teach and can throw and improvise without have a perfect platform. Hopefully the coaches help him tap into his full potential.

I watched three full games of Love. He throws great off platform from the pocket. He’s inaccurate on the run. The offseason work Love is doing, they show a lot of him throwing on the run. That’s good. He needs to become consistent on the run. He’s a very high upside player. Has elite arm and movement. Just needs to bring it all together.

[red]

I watched three full games of Love. He throws great off platform from the pocket. He’s inaccurate on the run. The offseason work Love is doing, they show a lot of him throwing on the run. That’s good. He needs to become consistent on the run. He’s a very high upside player. Has elite arm and movement. Just needs to bring it all together.
You got links of him working out?

I'm too lazy to search

[Rastak]

Glad we can still have a laugh here once in a while. Glad someone got the joke.

Good to see you around, Ras.


Hope all is well Fritz.

[RashanGary]

You got links of him working out?

I'm too lazy to search

I see videos drop on Twitter. A couple weeks ago they had one of him rolling both directions and throwing darts. I was glad to see him practicing the throwing on the move. If there are three main throwing platforms, on platform, off platform from the pocket and on the move, I thought he was really strong in two of the three. Even though he’s an athlete, I thought his accuracy on the move was his biggest deficiency.

[Upnorth]

I see videos drop on Twitter. A couple weeks ago they had one of him rolling both directions and throwing darts. I was glad to see him practicing the throwing on the move. If there are three main throwing platforms, on platform, off platform from the pocket and on the move, I thought he was really strong in two of the three. Even though he’s an athlete, I thought his accuracy on the move was his biggest deficiency.

Sounds like josh allen 3 years ago

[RashanGary]

Sounds like josh allen 3 years ago

That’s a good comp. I’d like to see him get one more year of development and then throw him in the fire.

[Bretsky]

I think though that maybe teams are coming back around to the old way: let a guy sit for at least his first year, maybe two. Too many of the hotshots that you've invested your future into get thrown out there are get their confidence permanently damaged or get gun-shy after all the sacks they take cuz they see only chaos on the field, given the speed of the NFL game.



I don't see this. Last year, who were the 1st rounders (I can't remember...lol)

I remember Joe Burrow, Tou T, and Justin Herbert all playing a lot. I think there were two others but I can't remember who they were. QB's, well most of them, are playing a lot more pro sets and I think are more NFL ready....well...ours isn't...but many are.

[Bretsky]

That’s a good comp. I’d like to see him get one more year of development and then throw him in the fire.


Not sure I've heard anybody comp him with Josh Allen.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Not sure I've heard anybody comp him with Josh Allen.

Not really a good comp. More like Drew Lock than Josh Allen (physically and arm talent wise, hopefully not mentally).

[George Cumby]

Not sure I've heard anybody comp him with Josh Allen.

I think Love is more athletic than Allen. And I really like Allen.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Love is more athletic than Allen. And I really like Allen.

I don't think he is. Allen is kind of a freak. Practically the same 40m, vertical, and broad jumps, but Allen had him beat comfortably in the shuttle and 3 cone. Not to mention height, weight, and power. Allen's RAS score was 9.67. Love's RAS was 8.46. Allen also has a stronger arm than just about everybody. It's the reason Allen went top 10 and Love went late 1st. Love had him beat on accuracy coming out of college, but Allen has made incredible gains in accuracy his first few years in the NFL.

[George Cumby]

I don't think he is. Allen is kind of a freak. Practically the same 40m, vertical, and broad jumps, but Allen had him beat comfortably in the shuttle and 3 cone. Not to mention height, weight, and power. Allen's RAS score was 9.67. Love's RAS was 8.46. Allen also has a stronger arm than just about everybody. It's the reason Allen went top 10 and Love went late 1st. Love had him beat on accuracy coming out of college, but Allen has made incredible gains in accuracy his first few years in the NFL.

Fair enough.

Good information.

Thanks!

I saw a bit on Allen, he's worked crazy hard in the off-season.

[Spaulding]

We'll all have a much better idea of where Love stands obviously with mini-camps (should they happen) and at least some preseason activity to help gauge this year if all goes well. Can't imagine how tough it was last year for a developmental QB to miss out on all of that.

Short article from heavy regarding Love and his improvement - take it for what it's worth:

- https://heavy.com/sports/green-bay-packers/jordan-love-offseason-progress-workout-video/

From what I've read, he's a hard worker and fairly humble. Hopefully that means he's got a good head on his shoulders and can take the next step if needed depending how the Rodgers stuff plays out.

[SudsMcBucky]

If one of you film gurus would like to go look at Love's Junior year film when he had a better surrounding cast, I'd like to hear your thoughts. I just don't have the time to do that.

[bobblehead]

I don't think he is. Allen is kind of a freak. Practically the same 40m, vertical, and broad jumps, but Allen had him beat comfortably in the shuttle and 3 cone. Not to mention height, weight, and power. Allen's RAS score was 9.67. Love's RAS was 8.46. Allen also has a stronger arm than just about everybody. It's the reason Allen went top 10 and Love went late 1st. Love had him beat on accuracy coming out of college, but Allen has made incredible gains in accuracy his first few years in the NFL.

But Love is black and Allen is white, so Love is the better athlete. Just saying.

[RashanGary]

If one of you film gurus would like to go look at Love's Junior year film when he had a better surrounding cast, I'd like to hear your thoughts. I just don't have the time to do that.

I watched 3 games, among them was at least one from the previous year. Love throws really well even when the pocket is crashing. He has a rocket arm. He moves really well but needs to improve his throw on the move skillset because he’s inaccurate when running.

He’s a really good prospect. If he works his ass off, he’ll be an NFL starter. He’s gonna greatly benefit from one more year watching Rodgers. I think Rodgers opened his mind to thinking outside the box from watching Favre and that’s a nice fast forward for Love too if he gets that opportunity.

[Packers4Glory]

He may turn out to be a good QB. who knows. But at this point, fair or unfair, he had better be a stud in order to justify the pick and fall out. I didn't hear much of anything about him last year good or bad development wise. I find it odd they just let Boyle walk. that has to speak something positive towards what they were seeing at the end of the year? I actually thought Boyle could win you a couple games if needed and Adams was healthy vs some of the lesser teams along with the running game.

[Tony Oday]

another 15 year Hall of Famer that is what we have in JL.

[HarveyWallbangers]

If one of you film gurus would like to go look at Love's Junior year film when he had a better surrounding cast, I'd like to hear your thoughts. I just don't have the time to do that.

I thought his tape was good that year. If he had come out after that year, he would have been drafted in the top half of the 1st round. His tape from the Michigan State game was solid--even though it was his worst statistical game of the year. He threw two interceptions (one while he was hit), but he made a bunch of impressive throws. Utah State was outmanned by a Michigan State defense that was a top 10 defense in college football that year. After that game, he threw 32 TDs and 4 interceptions.

Jordan Love vs. Michigan St 2018 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuCs248rETU)

[HarveyWallbangers]

But Love is black and Allen is white, so Love is the better athlete. Just saying.

I'm sure Spaulding didn't mean it like that. More that Allen is Big Ben sized (6'5"+ 240). You don't expect him to move like he does.

[Spaulding]

From a measurables stand point it's hard not to like Love as a QB as he checks all the boxes. Also in his defense he was in an established system he knew with better supporting cast in 2018 under Wells when he shined like a franchise QB. His regression in 2019 under a new system and coach (Anderson who all us Badger fans know and hate) along with weaker roster makes some sense.

It's just hard to tell when you see some of the easy picks he threw to underneath coverage in 2019 means to expect that or his higher level of play in 2018. It's no surprise he's a developmental type QB and will need some time to adjust to the Packers system and speed of play in the NFL.

I think people forget the stigma of Tedford QB's and Rodgers coming out. Obviously enough GM's didn't think he was elite or otherwise he wouldn't have been there for the Packers late in the first round. Rodgers didn't look like the next great thing until he flashed in Dallas season three I thought.

It's such a crap shoot though.

[RashanGary]

You can still judge him on the bad team. He still threw well when everything was crashing around him and his awful WRs had no separation. His losing tape was still good QB tape. It just didn’t end well even though he did everything he could to give his team a chance

[RashanGary]

Jordan love had good 2018 tape and good 2019 tape. The 2018 tape had more team success and it shows what he looks like in good situations. The 2019 tape showed that he’ll still scrap and claw when things are stacked against him. I thought he looked good both years.

He’s gonna have to work hard on his accuracy on the run. Other than that, I thought he showed up as an elite QB prospect, easily worthy of a first round pick.

If they’re right on him being a grinder and a worker, they’ll probably be right on him as a player because he’s close to everything you want and the one real short coming, I think is a developable trait.

[RashanGary]

If Rodgers refuses to play, it could come down to him retiring early.

Jordan Love is in a good situation. He got to be in the QB room with the goat for a year. He’s in the second year under the same offense. That’s much better than a rookie learning new language. He’s had a year to work on his biggest weaknesses. He’s on a pretty good team. If Rodgers retires, I think it shows how stubborn and hard to manage he is as a person. It makes the Jordan Love pick make so much more sense and Love is still in a good spot to have early success. I hope he’s a worker and wants to be great because he has a shot!

[Packers4Glory]

If Rodgers refuses to play, it could come down to him retiring early.

Jordan Love is in a good situation. He got to be in the QB room with the goat for a year. He’s in the second year under the same offense. That’s much better than a rookie learning new language. He’s had a year to work on his biggest weaknesses. He’s on a pretty good team. If Rodgers retires, I think it shows how stubborn and hard to manage he is as a person. It makes the Jordan Love pick make so much more sense and Love is still in a good spot to have early success. I hope he’s a worker and wants to be great because he has a shot!

LOL

[texaspackerbacker]

I, of all people, am certainly not saying this is gonna happen, but (serious question) if Aaron Rodgers did retire and complied with contract law requiring him to pay back $33 million bonus money as I've read he would have to do, would the cap hit then be $33 million less than otherwise? And what if he declared bankruptcy or something and retired but didn't pay it back? Anyway, that shit ain't gonna happen.

Keeping on track with this thread title, I wouldn't be surprised if Love does turn out good - probably not Mahomes good, almost certainly not Rodgers good, but a quality NFL starter for many years. I also wouldn't be surprised if he flops miserably. I'd put the odds of both of those extremes at about 25% with it being a 50% probability that ends up somewhere in between. The point is, nobody knows at this point. The team may have a slight inkling, but neither posters nor media assholes have any clue.

This is the third time I've posted this (sorry hahahaha), but it seems infinitely sensible to me. If we re-up and extend Rodgers to the end of Love's rookie contract and maybe a year or two beyond, BY THAT TIME IT WILL BE ABUNDANTLY CLEAR ONE WAY OR THE OTHER ABOUT LOVE. He would be cheap all that time - even the first year of a potential new contract with a big bonus and small cap it, so no burden to keeping him on the roster. If it becomes apparent that he is bombing out, dump him or trade him. If he really is good, make him the next long term Packer QB - after about 5 or 6 more years of Rodgers. If all the shit posted about what Rodgers wants is true, that should satisfy him, and it would IMO be the obvious and ideal solution to this situation that so many portray as a problem.

[RashanGary]

I, of all people, am certainly not saying this is gonna happen, but (serious question) if Aaron Rodgers did retire and complied with contract law requiring him to pay back $33 million bonus money as I've read he would have to do, would the cap hit then be $33 million less than otherwise? And what if he declared bankruptcy or something and retired but didn't pay it back? Anyway, that shit ain't gonna .

Rodgers will have to pay back a bunch of money and the cap hit will go way down. Rodgers isn’t in a position to get whatever he wants. Hopefully all sides can communicate and come to better understandings so it doesn’t end nuclear. But Rodgers is stubborn and so are the Packers. I would say it’s 95% gonna be fine and 5% gonna end in retirement for 12.

[texaspackerbacker]

The same article I read said he has made over $240 million in his career, so he conceivably could pay back that $33 million or so and hardly have it make a dent. Also, he could easily be the Jeopardy host or any number of other show biz gigs. I'm pretty sure he would be as much or more in demand as a commentator than Tony Romo if he chose that route. And to top it off, he will soon have an almost Brady level wife in terms of her income. So I'd say he does definitely have options.

Yes, he probably is stubborn, but we really have no way to know that for sure. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with your 95/5 percent thing about things turning out fine/retiring - which is why so much of the media garbage and so many posts in here are so stupid.

[RashanGary]

The same article I read said he has made over $240 million in his career, so he conceivably could pay back that $33 million or so and hardly have it make a dent. Also, he could easily be the Jeopardy host or any number of other show biz gigs. I'm pretty sure he would be as much or more in demand as a commentator than Tony Romo if he chose that route. And to top it off, he will soon have an almost Brady level wife in terms of her income. So I'd say he does definitely have options.

Yes, he probably is stubborn, but we really have no way to know that for sure. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with your 95/5 percent thing about things turning out fine/retiring - which is why so much of the media garbage and so many posts in here are so stupid.

Yep. I hope he loves football and wants to cement his legacy cuz he’s gonna need some motivation to get over the hump abd play when things aren’t going his way exactly. I think he has those motivations though. He’s still building a goat case and I think he likes that. He likes his teammates too. He should be back.

[RashanGary]

The Packers also give him a pretty good chance at a title. Packers are close to favorites to win it all again. He has plenty of reasons to come back. But a few to leave. I’ll be ok either way. I don’t like the “business” of the NFL and respect anyone who can walk away from it and I respect those who succeed in it too, and those who fail trying. There are a whole bunch of reasons to respect people and the older I get, the more of them I find.

[Sparkey]

Love working on balance, footwork and throwing on the run.


https://twitter.com/i/status/1386029857491062787

[Spaulding]

Love working on balance, footwork and throwing on the run.


https://twitter.com/i/status/1386029857491062787

Thanks for that post. Good to see the improvement. Hopefully he doesn't need to see the field until 2023 though :)

[King Friday]

The same article I read said he has made over $240 million in his career, so he conceivably could pay back that $33 million or so and hardly have it make a dent. Also, he could easily be the Jeopardy host or any number of other show biz gigs. I'm pretty sure he would be as much or more in demand as a commentator than Tony Romo if he chose that route. And to top it off, he will soon have an almost Brady level wife in terms of her income. So I'd say he does definitely have options.

Yes, he probably is stubborn, but we really have no way to know that for sure. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with your 95/5 percent thing about things turning out fine/retiring - which is why so much of the media garbage and so many posts in here are so stupid.

Your logic is flawed all over the place.

1. Shailene ain't anywhere close to Giselle's income level.

2. He isn't going to easily get a gig on Jeopardy just because he guest hosted for a few weeks.

3. He may be in demand as a football commentator, but at this time it is hard to find a place for him. Romo ain't going anywhere at CBS. I doubt Troy is ready to go anywhere on Fox. NBC just paid for Brees. I doubt ego boy will stoop to replacing Booger, but he may need to put food on the table.

[Packers4Glory]

Just take Rodgers & get a haul in return. I don’t see why you don’t unless you want to end up empty handed when you clearly spent the 2020 draft on the future instead of the present. Let’s see hire it pans out. Get a bunch of picks because you’re going to lose nearly your entire WR corp unless they franchise Adams. Idk if they’ll have the cap space to do that next year either. Get picks & let’s see how good Gute & his staff are at talent evaluation & without the best QB to ever lace them up.

[RashanGary]

Just take Rodgers & get a haul in return. I don’t see why you don’t unless you want to end up empty handed when you clearly spent the 2020 draft on the future instead of the present. Let’s see hire it pans out. Get a bunch of picks because you’re going to lose nearly your entire WR corp unless they franchise Adams. Idk if they’ll have the cap space to do that next year either. Get picks & let’s see how good Gute & his staff are at talent evaluation & without the best QB to ever lace them up.

Favre got progressively more pissy after the Rodgers draft and threatened to retire in 2008 after a monster 2007 season. When push came to shove, in 2008 when he showed up to family night, he would have played even though he was fed up with the Packers. He got traded to the Jets and the rest is history.

Rodgers, seemingly equally pissy to the 2008 Favre, will probably want to play football come training camp and show up. I think the Packers will probably be a lot closer to moving on in 2022 after the drama.

But I think the Packers want Rodgers this year and I think Rodgers will play when push comes to shove. Maybe not, but the season has a way of drawing cagey vets back in for another fight.


I think one more year and move on next year. Like Favre, I think Rodgers is fed up, but he’ll give it one more go before they part ways.

[RashanGary]

Hopefully Rodgers nets more than a 3rd round pick. In hindsight, shoulda taken that Stafford deal when the chance was there.

[Packers4Glory]

Favre got progressively more pissy after the Rodgers draft and threatened to retire in 2008 after a monster 2007 season. When push came to shove, in 2008 when he showed up to family night, he would have played even though he was fed up with the Packers. He got traded to the Jets and the rest is history.

Rodgers, seemingly equally pissy to the 2008 Favre, will probably want to play football come training camp and show up. I think the Packers will probably be a lot closer to moving on in 2022 after the drama.

But I think the Packers want Rodgers this year and I think Rodgers will play when push comes to shove. Maybe not, but the season has a way of drawing cagey vets back in for another fight.


I think one more year and move on next year. Like Favre, I think Rodgers is fed up, but he’ll give it one more go before they part ways.
Favre didn’t leave the brass much choice. He wasn’t sure he wanted to keep playing. Not a good comparison. Rodges has been clear on his intentions to keep playing. His do called “down” seasons are a joke if you look at the bigger picture.

[Upnorth]

The biggest reason I am starting to believe in a thing called Love is rodgers power move. If Love sucks he doesn't need to ask for an extension. The packers would be begging. If rodgers sees something in Love I get why he wants security.

Or perhaps I am manufacturing this perspective as a mental blankie for what is going on.

[Joemailman]

I do not find myself dreading the possibility that Jordan Love will be the Packers QB in 2021. One reason is that Love is really talented. The other is that Lafleur has had great success with QB's. Jared Goff was better when working with Lafleur has he has been since Lafleur left L.A. Matt Ryan and Aaron Rodgers both had MVP years working with Lafleur. Both experienced a resurgence under LaFleur. I'm not saying that the Packers will be as good with Love at QB as they would be with Rodgers. They won't. But I don't agree that the Packers are a 4-12 team with Love at QB. The last time Aaron Rodgers missed games, the Packers were 3-6 with Brett Hundley. But Love is better than Hundley, and this Packers team is a lot better than that team was on both offense and defense.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't dread it either, but the schedule is pretty brutal. Several games that I'd chalk up as a possible W with Rodgers and an L with basically a rookie QB.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers was 6-10 in his first year starting on the same team favre went 13-3. Expect about the same.

[Joemailman]

Rodgers was 6-10 in his first year starting on the same team favre went 13-3. Expect about the same.

It's possible. But I expect this Packer defense to be a lot better than the 2008 defense which was hit hard by injuries. Packers lost a ton of close games that year. Packers had the NFL's #5 offense in 2008 and the #22 defense. The defense had more to do with the decline than the switch from Favre to Rodgers.

[Upnorth]

We have a good oline and great when healthy. We have great rb. We have good pass catchers. We have good te.
Yep he is setup to succeed. Doesn't mean he will but it's not like being drafted by the jets thats for sure.

[George Cumby]

The biggest reason I am starting to believe in a thing called Love is rodgers power move. If Love sucks he doesn't need to ask for an extension. The packers would be begging. If rodgers sees something in Love I get why he wants security.

Or perhaps I am manufacturing this perspective as a mental blankie for what is going on.

Agreed.

If Love sucked TPB's syphilitic balls, Rodgers would be gracious and sanguine.

But Love is probably looking good, and the old dog is feeling less important and valued and with his frageelay ego, he's acting out.

[Packers4Glory]

Agreed.

If Love sucked TPB's syphilitic balls, Rodgers would be gracious and sanguine.

But Love is probably looking good, and the old dog is feeling less important and valued and with his frageelay ego, he's acting out.
This is asinine

[George Cumby]

This is asinine

You would know.

[texaspackerbacker]

Thanks for that post. Good to see the improvement. Hopefully he doesn't need to see the field until 2023 though :)

Yes, he did look good in that video. 2025 or 6 would be better, though. He'll be cheap until then, and will shown enough one way or the other in the preseason to be reasonably sure.

[Upnorth]

This is asinine

We're you a fan in 2008? I assume from the 4 in your name you must have been. Do you not remember those cries for love? Can you not see the similarities between these two actions at about the same age? Same age as when the Brady belichick issue arose?
All world players worshipped by a fan base not getting what they want at late 30's age and suddenly needing to feel loved. That is what we are seeing again. Rothlesberger as well, in a slightly different way.
If the collarbone happened this year i bet it plays out like manning to Denver.
Human beings psychological makeup is so very similar but we tend to forget this. We are all closer to Saints and serial killers than anyone cares to admit.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I’m sold on him. I thought he looked good in his worst statistical game vs Michigan State. This was his last college game. I’ve never seen it before. He was great. I agree with this guy. How did PFF grade this as a 70? Everybody should check this out to see what we have.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=30202Ya3IvE

[Bretsky]

I want Rodgers to come back, and play five more years an in doing so win two more SB's.

Trade his ass. Bye Bye Lovemachine....who IMO we still overdrafted

[HarveyWallbangers]

I want Rodgers to come back, and play five more years an in doing so win two more SB's.

Trade his ass. Bye Bye Lovemachine....who IMO we still overdrafted

You have a thick skull. I've verified this is patently false. I have a spreadsheet that shows the rankings of numerous draft sites, and Love was almost universally a first round pick (5 of the 6 sites I have documented had Love as a first round pick--some as high as the mid first round).

ESPN had Love at #20--ahead of Justin Herbert
http://insider.espn.com/nfl/draft/rankings/_/year/2020

SI had Love at #28
https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/04/19/draft-big-board-updated-top-255-prospects

Daniel Jeremiah had him at #23 on his top 50:
https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-s-top-50-2020-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-3-0-0ap3000001105591

Bucky Brooks mocked him to the Saints at #24 in his final mock draft.
https://www.nfl.com/news/bucky-brooks-2020-nfl-mock-draft-1-0-jordan-love-to-saints-0ap3000001099246

NFL.com had a late 1st round grade on him:
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jordan-love/32004c4f-5613-0776-be4c-ce231b05c522

[HarveyWallbangers]

I want Rodgers to come back, and play five more years an in doing so win two more SB's.

Trade his ass. Bye Bye Lovemachine....who IMO we still overdrafted

Did you watch the video of the game I just posted? Or even the Michigan State game--which was statistically his worst game? Tell me what you think. Put on your scouting cap. Call it now. Is this guy going to be a good NFL player?

[Packers4Glory]

We're you a fan in 2008? I assume from the 4 in your name you must have been. Do you not remember those cries for love? Can you not see the similarities between these two actions at about the same age? Same age as when the Brady belichick issue arose?
All world players worshipped by a fan base not getting what they want at late 30's age and suddenly needing to feel loved. That is what we are seeing again. Rothlesberger as well, in a slightly different way.
If the collarbone happened this year i bet it plays out like manning to Denver.
Human beings psychological makeup is so very similar but we tend to forget this. We are all closer to Saints and serial killers than anyone cares to admit.

There is no comparison to the draft pick. It's such a simpleton view. Favre brought it on himself because he kept holding the team hostage, for lack of a better term, with his will or won't he retire. the team had to do something to insure themselves.

Also it has nothing to do with Love himself. Unlike Favre Rodgers was gracious with his words and from all accounts with the player.

You tell me shitty teams like the bears can manage to call Andy Dalton and tell him they're drafting Fields. Or the Vikes can call Cousins. Or the niners let Jimmy G know they were were drafting a QB. I mean those teams at least got that much, especially the bears who have a terrible FO. But Gute couldn't manage to give Rodgers a heads up? how is this excusable? especially considering we were in the NFC title game. You're not thinking this through.

Rodgers def added some fuel to the fires of speculation with his comments after the title game but there's apparently a lot of failure to communicate with this FO. Whether you like it or not, guys like Rodgers are guys you do keep in the loop somewhat. It's a QB driven league and you happen to have one of the best ever playing for you. So this BS of he's a player so suck it up doesn't pass the sniff test. That's not how the league operates.

[Packers4Glory]

You have a thick skull. I've verified this is patently false. I have a spreadsheet that shows the rankings of numerous draft sites, and Love was almost universally a first round pick (5 of the 6 sites I have documented had Love as a first round pick--some as high as the mid first round).

ESPN had Love at #20--ahead of Justin Herbert
http://insider.espn.com/nfl/draft/rankings/_/year/2020

SI had Love at #28
https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/04/19/draft-big-board-updated-top-255-prospects

Daniel Jeremiah had him at #23 on his top 50:
https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-s-top-50-2020-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-3-0-0ap3000001105591

Bucky Brooks mocked him to the Saints at #24 in his final mock draft.
https://www.nfl.com/news/bucky-brooks-2020-nfl-mock-draft-1-0-jordan-love-to-saints-0ap3000001099246

NFL.com had a late 1st round grade on him:
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jordan-love/32004c4f-5613-0776-be4c-ce231b05c522

who cares? he wasn't a fit on a team a game from a title with front 7 issues and WR issues.

Daniel Jeremiah was another guy I listened to who was pretty adamant that the leaks were coming from inside the organization and not Aaron.

[SudsMcBucky]

:beat::beat::beat::beat::beat::beat::beat::beat::b eat::beat::beat::beat::beat::beat::beat::beat::bea t::beat::beat::beat::beat:

There's plenty to blame on BOTH sides.

[sharpe1027]

:beat::beat::beat::beat::beat::beat::beat::beat::b eat::beat::beat::beat::beat::beat::beat::beat::bea t::beat::beat::beat::beat:

There's plenty to blame on BOTH sides.
Amen.

[RashanGary]

I look at it as a mild.mistake in hindsight. But boy, now we know how to motivate Rodgers. Holy shit, the Love pick might be the best pick in the 2020 draft because it lit a fire under grumpy gudgertons ass.

[Sparkey]

One of my favorite sites to review, for the draft is THEDRAFTNETWORK. I like the fact that they give multiple views of analysis of players. Below is everything they had on Jordan Love.

THEDRAFTNETWORK:

MARINO:

PROS: Checks the boxes in terms of size and body composition. Good mobility and athleticism; capable of extending plays with his feet, hitting throws on the move and taking off with the ball in his hands. Sound mechanically and can hit throws from a variety of arm slots. Over the top release that is lighting quick. Does well to follow through and get his legs involved on throws. Love how he hangs in the pocket and keeps his eyes down the field. Willing to test leverage advantages in man coverage and slot throws between zones. Aware of his outlets. Has the arm talent to make any throw. Has some impressive moments of ball placement to all levels.

CONS: Needs to improve his field vision and awareness. Often fails to recognize or completely disregards coverage rotations and it doesn’t have a great enough impact on his decision making. He throws some careless, YOLO balls that need to be reduced. While there is a lot to like about his willingness to be patient and stay in the pocket, his internal clock is often tardy. Can be aggressive vertically to fault. Has to find more consistency with timing and progressions. Has general accuracy with plenty of misfires.

BEST TRAIT - Physical Gifts

WORST TRAIT - Decision Making

RED FLAGS - None

NFL COMP - Colin Kaepernick

Jordan Love isn’t without his warts but he possesses a high-level physical skill set and peaks on tape that reveal the ceiling of a potential dynamic NFL starting quarterback. His arm talent and mobility is perfect for the trends of today’s NFL and there is no limitations to what he can do on the field. The full playbook is open for Love and then some. With that said, he does need to make notable strides in several key areas including decision-making, timing and accuracy to achieve his ceiling. An early investment in Love is a bet on yourself to be able to develop his overall game but his upside is worth the calculated risk.

FINAL EVALUATION

SOLAK

Accuracy: Has some delightful flashes and is generally NFL-quality here. Biggest missed throws are a result of being on different pages with his receivers in regards to downfield adjustments, or just those throws where he forgets to look at where the defenders are. Touch throws, especially through intermediate and deep windows, and throwing players covered to uncovered, are unteachable and high-quality.

Decision-Making: Does not have an actionable process in the pocket and is extremely risk prone with the football. Attacks his first read without adjustment to potential outplays by the defense and often panics on the hoof, throwing into congested areas or to players he can't realistically reach. Extremely scattershot on late downs with a ton of panic.

Poise: Not so much poised as he is just unaware of the pocket collapsing. Willing to look in the face of pressure developing down the middle and still deliver downfield while being hit, but is risk-prone in this regard and will throw poorly-planned jump balls in response to pressure frequently. Not a desirable late game/red zone/late down QB at this stage as he has some panic to his game.

Arm Strength: It just comes easy to the kid. Has a flick-of-the-wrist release to short areas that gets the ball out in a hurry but doesn't sacrifice zip. Flexible frame with rubber band action through the wrist and elbow to whip intermediate throws on a line and hit receivers in stride. Ball jumps off the hand. Ability to take some zest off of it and feather it in there with touch and timing is really quite ridiculous. Best throws are arm talent throws.

Pocket Management: Has good movement skills, contact balance, and an active base in the pocket to escape the first pressure and retain his ability to work downfield. With that said, has a poor sense of spacing. Will climb into a pocket that is doesn't require it and accordingly force himself to launch hurriedly and from poor platforms. Feet will die at the top of his drop at times, putting him behind the eight-ball in terms of reacting to pressure.

Mobility: Natural mover with good athleticism throughout his frame. Can withstand glancing pressure or outrun sluggish defensive linemen in space to keep the play alive. Threat to pull it on read options and RPOs and rip off healthy gains, though not really a true tackle-breaker or homerun threat with the ball tucked. Has a quality throw-on-move profile that showcases his natural arm.

Progressions: He's not a progression thrower at this stage in his career. Reads a half-field deep to shallow and doesn't have to reset his feet in the pocket. Shows good eye manipulation in his drops when the defense is as he expected pre-snap, but cannot adjust his process to shifting safeties and loses his hot route regularly by the time he finishes his drop. Cannot manipulate layered zone coverages or put sail corners in conflict at this stage in his development.

Anticipation: Just couldn't tell you what he's looking at, at times. Has no respect for post-snap movement of underneath defenders and at times doesn't even correctly ID defenders pre-snap at times. Needs to see it before he throws it at most levels of the field and is often jumpy attacking seemingly open players in closing windows.

Mechanics: He's an extremely loose mover and it shows up in his throwing mechanics. Natural release with the ability to get hip rotation from a number of platforms and while he's in and out of timing. Able to adjust his arm slot as the situation demands it without a significant drop-off in accuracy. Isn't as rigorous and disciplined with his lower half as you'd like to see, but doesn't seem to suffer for it.



Round Grade: Early 3

Best Trait: Arm Strength

Worst Trait: Anticipation

Player Comparison: Jake Locker



Summary: Jordan Love is an incomplete passer who has understandably attracted the NFL eye with the ceiling offered by his natural talent. Love's natural release of the football, ability to throw receivers covered to uncovered with touch, and extension of plays all profile as a high-caliber playmaker in the NFL in the mold of a Mahomes, Wilson, or Rodgers. With that said, nothing about Love's play is yet normalized: he does not set his throwing base, get into his drop, identify his read, or place the football with anything resembling consistency. Love will be picked on by NFL defenders if forced to start early in his career, and I believe he is a strong candidate to sit for a season as he adjusts to the speed of NFL play and scripts for himself a better response to pressure packages and safety rotations. Love is a boom/bust prospect who will be overdrafted for his boom, and his stock is conditional on landing with a team willing to do the hard work of developing him.

HARRIS

Jordan aligns at QB for the Aggie spread offense, mostly from the gun. He has good overall athleticism for the position. He has a Carson Wentz like windup and delivery of the football and although he has a quick release, getting his operation more efficient will speed up his delivery even more. He is quick in his drop and shows good foot work in the pocket. Due to having an offensive line that struggled with protecting, he spends a lot of time retreating and throwing off his back foot. However, when he has a clean pocket he has shown the ability to deliver the ball with zip and accuracy. He was also forced to make quick decisions and was not a good decision maker in these instances. His mechanics began to suffer as the game progressed when faced with consistent pressure from the rush. He can change his arm angle on check-downs and other short area throws to fit in tight windows. He does a good job of helping the protection with his decisiveness and by getting the ball out quickly. He has good escapability and does a very good job of extending plays with his legs. His quick release, decisiveness and internal timer allow him to makes plays on schedule. His good athleticism, ability to improvise and his good mobility allow him to make plays off schedule, giving the offense another opportunity. He does a very good job of keeping his eyes downfield when escaping the pocket and has shown good accuracy and touch on the move. He has shown good accuracy and touch on intermediate to deep throws, putting the ball on the number away from the defender and allowing the receiver to catch and run. He needs to do a better job of throwing the ball away to avoid negative plays and not forcing the ball into tight windows. In the NFL, I believe this player develops into a starter by year 2. He will need to break some bad habits, learn to make better decisions under duress and trust his protection up front. He will also need time to develop other nuances of the position, like reading defenses from under center and manipulating safeties with his eyes. With that said, his skill set is a good fit for todays NFL. The arrow is definitely pointing up with this player and his best football is ahead of him.

Updated: 04/05/2020

[Sparkey]

CRABBS

Arm Accuracy - Natural placement and accuracy is really impressive to all levels of the field and shows ability to throw with accuracy from different arm slots. Will throw short game away from 2nd level defenders. Consistency can wane but as a byproduct of mechanics. Some eye popping throws.

Decision Making - Seems to predetermine some throws thanks to favorable pre-snap reads. Turnovers became problematic in 2019 as a byproduct of looking for big plays. Was forced to throw a lot of tight window balls due to separation issues throughout 2019 season.

Progressions - He'll use the full field of play and his flashes of eye manipulation are really nice. That said, too often he'll key on his first read and guide defenders to the ball. He thrives with stacked reads or working the ISO receiver. Most mistakes come vs. murky middle of the field zones.

Anticipation - Some of his spot throws are just absolutely delightful — laces balls to hit targets in stride. Anticipates defenders breaking as well and will work to throw away from receivers. He does a pretty nice job of identifying pressure opportunities to throw hot.

Poise - Thrives often in the off script plays. Has a knack for extended plays and often hits big shots down the field after stretching and stressing the defense with his feet. Forced to work in tight window throws and develop no fear testing tight man coverage during time at USU.

Arm Strength - He's got a cannon — can easily push the ball when he's throwing into tight window throws and zip ball into tight spaces. His deep outs and back shoulder throws to far side of the field arrive with pace. All throws are available to him thanks to power he gets on the ball.

Pocket Awareness - He's got a nice feel for collapsing pocket and has plenty of short area quickness to step up or flush out gaps. He rarely works himself into trouble within the pocket and likes to roll out once he feels pressure manifesting. Willing to climb the ladder vs. outside pressure.

Mechanics - Will rely too much on his arm to get the job done and as a result he'll float throws without adequate transfer. It's an easy fix but a bad habit. When he's dialed in, he's picturesque with his throwing motion and form when surveying the pocket and working through reads.

Footwork - His lower half can go stale on him and further expand on accuracy consistency and lack of regular results to drive the ball. That said, he's clean in his drops, light on his feet and makes effort to reset his base as he works across the field of play to scan through progressions.

Mobility - He's a legit two way threat who has seen some running packages built into game plans. He's got great speed for his size and runs tough to punish smaller defenders. Will beat the blitz and tear up man coverage if he's able to break contain of the pocket.

---

Best Trait - Arm Strength

Worst Trait - Decision Making

Best Film - San Jose State (2018)

Worst Film - LSU (2019)

Red Flags - None

Player Summary - Jordan Love has franchise quarterback qualities and should be regarded as a prospect with a Pro Bowl ceiling. Love's statistical regression in 2019 isn't indicative of a regression in skills or decision making — was a victim of poor supporting cast in many instances. Love will need patience and must go to a team with coaching staff able to nurture, develop and cater passing schemes to where he thrives. He isn't plug and play but he's a potential game changing QB.

REID

Background: Love's father, Orbin, never made it past the junior college level as a player, but he quickly turned to join the police force afterwards. He was a member of the Bakersfield Police Department for nearly 30 years. July 13, 2013, will forever be a day that Love remembers. This is the day that his father tragically took his own life. Love, only 14 years old at the time, remained in a dark place for years now that his childhood hero was no longer beside him. His mother, Anna, who is a California Highway Patrol officer and Love’s three sisters are his biggest inspiration.

During his final two seasons at Liberty High School, he combined for 4,078 passing yards, nearly 1,200 rushing yards, and 55 total touchdowns. Despite being named as the California Interscholastic Federation (CIF) Conference Offensive Player of the Year, he only received one Division I offer, which came from Utah State. After redshirting during his first year on campus (2016), he returned to appear in all 12 games the following season as he went on to start the team’s final five games. Love’s 1,631 passing yards set a new freshman mark, while also adding eight touchdowns to six interceptions.

As a redshirt sophomore (2018), he engineered the Aggie offense to a school record 11 win season. During that timespan, he went on to set second-year records in passing yards (3,567), touchdown passes (32) and 300-yard passing games (seven). Love completed 267 passes during his sophomore campaign, which is the second-best output in school history. One of the biggest talked about risers heading into his third season, much was to be expected of Love.

Due to the teams offensive success, a coaching change ensued as head coach Matt Wells transitioned to Texas Tech after six seasons at the helm. With that, Love endured many trying times as he faced the challenges of a new coaching staff and losing many of his top weapons. Taking a step back in 2019 because of many variables, Love finished with 3,402 passing yards, 20 touchdowns and 17 interceptions. Prior to the teams bowl game, Love and two other teammates were charged with possession of marijuana (Dec. 2019).

Scheme Fit: Erhardt-Perkins/West Coast

Round Projection: Mid-Late 1st (Potential to Climb)

Positives (+)

Fiery Release: Love possesses a snappy, over the top release that enables the ball to come out of his hand with plenty of purpose. Coming out of his hand with plenty of juice, his passes have lots of zip behind them as a result of quick wrist snaps and core strength behind it. Once he realizes where he wants to attack coverages, his motion is quick and compact. The added urgency behind the motion helps him throw the ball effortlessly to any area desirable.

Touch/Ball Speed Awareness: While having a strong arm and well developed accuracy, Love has high IQ levels of knowing what type of pitches to use in certain situations. Knowing that fastballs aren’t always needed and only using them when necessary, his touch and feel for the amount of velocity to put on each throw is evident.

Changing Launch Points: Love is an average athlete, but he also excels when throwing on the run or off the original launch point. He was involved in an offense that frequently incorporated pocket movements and rollout passes. The former Aggie signal-caller proved to be plenty comfortable with the changing of throwing areas and his accuracy was able to stay intact despite being on the move.

Negatives (–)

Jumping Into Deep Passes: A mannerism that needs to be broken is his habit of jumping into his deep passes with a bit of a gallup. Without planting his back leg and standing firm in order to guide the ball into desired spots, his accuracy suffers. (Air Force and LSU – 2019) The repeated nature of him doing this resulted in a lot of his vertical passes along the sidelines to fall short and usually resulting in turnovers or missed opportunities.

Locked Eyes/Manipulation: Love’s eyes will become locked onto initial reads and there’s a massive delay of awareness with knowing when to advance to the next option in his progression. He can be forceful with his decision making and display over the top confidence in his arm talent even when it’s clear that the ball shouldn’t have been thrown into certain areas. Unable to see underneath coverage resulted in lots of poor decisions as he remained completely blind of it. Defenses were able to disguise their coverages successfully against Love due to a poor level of post-snap structure recognition.

High-Low Variances: A valley of high and low moments, his flash plays are more up-and-down than a seesaw. His high moments leave you wanting an endless supply of more while his low moments will leave you scratching your head and asking what he was seeing on that certain play. Following a breakout 2018 season, he was unable to rekindle that stretch of play for a lengthy period of during his final season.

Projection: Opinions about Love will remain mixed, but there’s no doubting his arm talent and other traits that are already present. Of any prospect in this draft, no career none other than Love’s will be more dependent on their landing spot. His production fell off of a cliff following the 2018 season, but there will be some teams that feel as if that was his true form and that they could eventually help him return to it.

Firmly believing that Love will eventually become a top-15 selection, he will need at least a year to sit behind a well-established veteran before he’s ready to take on a role as a full-time starter. His decision making and footwork need refinement and that time as an understudy will help him. If shown the right amounts of patience also while nurturing him along the way, a team could turn him into a high-end starting QB that turns into a face of the franchise type of player.

[Sparkey]

I did not realize this, but in 2019 not only did he lose a bunch of wr's and lineman but he had a new coaching staff. The same idiot that left Wisconsin after two years, Gary Anderson.

[run pMc]

It's also worth noting that draftnetwork had an early 2nd round rating on Kyler Murray, but acknowledged in their mocks that he'd get picked first overall because he was the top QB in his class.

Some scouts had Love as the #2QB in his class allegedly. He's worthy of a late R1/early R2 IMO, I just thought it shouldn't have been by GB. Thought it was a year early to pick a QB high given Rodgers' contract.
I'm not a GM or work in pro football personnel so what do I know.

[Joemailman]

I did not realize this, but in 2019 not only did he lose a bunch of wr's and lineman but he had a new coaching staff. The same idiot that left Wisconsin after two years, Gary Anderson.

They had lost 9 of the 10 offensive starters other than him. So you had a bunch of inexperienced guys learning a new offense. Tough situation.

[smuggler]

I’m sold on him. I thought he looked good in his worst statistical game vs Michigan State. This was his last college game. I’ve never seen it before. He was great. I agree with this guy. How did PFF grade this as a 70? Everybody should check this out to see what we have.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=30202Ya3IvE

This guy really hated our '21 draft.

E: I noticed the left guard on Utah State's 2019 squad is a pretty good player. He was a R-Freshman in this video, and they made it easy for him. His name is Henelei Bloomfield, and he transferred to Oregon State for 2021.

[texaspackerbacker]

I want Rodgers AND Love. It's apparent based on pre-draft reports that they didn't "overdraft" to get him. It's also arguably stupid based on fit and need that they drafted him. Clearly, we shoulda waited until a later year to draft a QB. But now we've got him. There's no reason whatsoever to dump him while he's cheap in his rookie contract. That would presumably be four more years. We need to induce Rodgers to play for the Packers for that four years at least - maybe more. If Love looks like the real deal by then, sign him to a second contract - the first year of which would still have a low cap hit. That would be the fifth year from now of Rodgers (2025). Rodgers could then retire peacefully or get traded still for a decent amount for '26 and beyond, or if it is apparent by then that Love ain't the future, we could likely re-sign Rodgers and squeeze a few more years out of him.

Of course, all of this depends on good sense prevailing now - either with Gutekunst or getting rid of him and extending Rodgers without Gutekunst.

[call_me_ishmael]

To be clear, I think Love has a good of a chance as any tier 4 QB prospect of success - not great based on historical precedent. I have no beef with the guy and wish him well. That said, my longstanding view is that QBs are getting better and better and the likelihood of success has gone up could very well apply here. It seems like there are fewer gargantuan busts, moreso just a lot of guys who bounce around the league and end up as backups or jags e.g. Jared Goff and Carson Wentz (I'm still high on Wentz FWIW).

I think it isn't acting in his best interest if you commit to him being a backup for the first four years of his career. If the plan is to commit to ARod for 3+ more years, it is being extremely shitty to Love if you don't give him the opportunity to play ball.

[Joemailman]

Matt LaFleur's record with developing QB's argues against the idea that Rodgers' successor will be unsuccessful. RGIII, Kirk Cousins, Jared Goff, Matt Ryan and Rodgers all had arguably their best seasons while being coached by LaFleur. With the exception of Rodgers, I think Love has more natural ability than any of those guys.

[call_me_ishmael]

Yep, I think the system is extremely QB friendly. In general I think the overwhelming majority of long term starters for Papa Shanahan and his underlings have made a pro bowl or two.

That said, Deshone Kizer comes to mind. Big guy, big time arm, athleticism, tier 4 prospect, etc. Was horrible!

[RashanGary]

Lafleur has success with QBs
Wolfs GM tree has success finding QBs

Big arm, compact release, mobile, throws guys open, has touch when he needs it, etc... he’s got a lot of the tools to succeed.

[RashanGary]

Yep, I think the system is extremely QB friendly. In general I think the overwhelming majority of long term starters for Papa Shanahan and his underlings have made a pro bowl or two.

That said, Deshone Kizer comes to mind. Big guy, big time arm, athleticism, tier 4 prospect, etc. Was horrible!

Love sure ain’t a sure thing. I think even the most hopeful Love fans know there’s a bust potential.

[Packers4Glory]

More likely than not he’ll be disappointing & underwhelming. And in the end it may not be all his fault if he has a weak group of WR as we’ve positioned ourselves to have in 2022 & beyond. Hopefully theres a strong line & running game

[sharpe1027]

More likely than not he’ll be disappointing & underwhelming. And in the end it may not be all his fault if he has a weak group of WR as we’ve positioned ourselves to have in 2022 & beyond. Hopefully theres a strong line & running game

Yeah. Hardly anyone will argue too much about the uncertainty about how good he'll be. The best minds in football turn out wrong time all the time.

[Sparkey]

More likely than not he’ll be disappointing & underwhelming. And in the end it may not be all his fault if he has a weak group of WR as we’ve positioned ourselves to have in 2022 & beyond. Hopefully theres a strong line & running game
Just curious, what leads you to believe the Packers receiver core will be weak in 2022 ?

[Upnorth]

Just curious, what leads you to believe the Packers receiver core will be weak in 2022 ?

No one signed past 2021 except amari rodgers.

[call_me_ishmael]

Love sure ain’t a sure thing. I think even the most hopeful Love fans know there’s a bust potential.

It depends on the definition of bust but yeah I'd put it at 95% chance that he never carries a team and can legitimately be a game changer.

[sharpe1027]

It depends on the definition of bust but yeah I'd put it at 95% chance that he never carries a team and can legitimately be a game changer.

Interesting percentage, but carrying a team and being a game changers or far from clear criteria, so you've safely hedged your position. How many game changers would you say there are right now in the NFL?

[Sparkey]

No one signed past 2021 except amari rodgers.

Your making assumptions for tomorrow based on the facts of today. Your mistake is assuming things operate in a linear direction.

[Packers4Glory]

Just curious, what leads you to believe the Packers receiver core will be weak in 2022 ?

After adams i these guys are really just 3’s & 4’s. MVS could be more if he could stop with the ridiculous drops. However they’re all FA after this year. If Rodgers is gone there’s little chance Adams signs a new deal. If he’s back it’s under the tag.

[Sparkey]

After adams i these guys are really just 3’s & 4’s. MVS could be more if he could stop with the ridiculous drops. However they’re all FA after this year. If Rodgers is gone there’s little chance Adams signs a new deal. If he’s back it’s under the tag.

You assume that players want to play with Rodgers. If that was the case, the Packers would have to turn away FA's. It's always about money. The only time I've seen players take less is when they are at the end of the careers and no longer command the big contracts. At that point they are no longer the difference maker they used to be.

[run pMc]

I think if Gute waves a $30M signing bonus in front of Adams he signs. This is his last year and they could tag him; meaning both this year and next he'd be on essentially one year deals. Injuries and all sorts of things happen, and I'd bet Adams would like that security up front and sign an extension, Rodgers or no.
In the pros, winning is great, but money talks.

[Packers4Glory]

You assume that players want to play with Rodgers. If that was the case, the Packers would have to turn away FA's. It's always about money. The only time I've seen players take less is when they are at the end of the careers and no longer command the big contracts. At that point they are no longer the difference maker they used to be.
What? You don’t think WR want to counter in here? You have to be willing to sign them. How do you know agents for guys aren’t calling to see if we’re interested? We’re so spoiled with Aaron making guys better that we forget our big WR free agent is devin funchess lol.

Our philosophy appears to be draft dudes later like MVS who have raw tools & hope they develop.

We got a guy earlier than usual this year, not the one I’d have picked, but I’m hoping they’re right.

But yes it’s always about money. All things equal or damn near, without Rodgers we’re probably not signing anyone until we have a guy who has proven he can do the job or looks like he’s going to develop.

[Sparkey]

After adams i these guys are really just 3’s & 4’s. MVS could be more if he could stop with the ridiculous drops. However they’re all FA after this year. If Rodgers is gone there’s little chance Adams signs a new deal. If he’s back it’s under the tag.

You assume that players want to play with Rodgers. If that was the case, the Packers would have to turn away FA's. It's always about money. The only time I've seen players take less is when they are at the end of the careers and no longer command the big contracts.

[texaspackerbacker]

I think if Gute waves a $30M signing bonus in front of Adams he signs. This is his last year and they could tag him; meaning both this year and next he'd be on essentially one year deals. Injuries and all sorts of things happen, and I'd bet Adams would like that security up front and sign an extension, Rodgers or no.
In the pros, winning is great, but money talks.

Adams, same as Rodgers (the QB not the rookie WR), is good because of things he does that should not deteriorate much with age. Thus, a huge bonus and fairly long term contract would be a good idea. With many WRs, it might be better just to franchise the guy - kick the can down the road a year - because they would be a helluva lot more likely to drop off in quality over time.

[texaspackerbacker]

So much is being made about nobody other than the rookie signed past next season. That's a red herring, though. Lazard and Valdez-Scantling are quality players worthy of extensions right now, but the cap was way down this season, and we didn't have to sign them now. Assuming they don't nosedive in performance, it should be extremely likely that we retain both of them beyond next season - when the cap bounces back to normal and makes up for the down year this year. In addition, I don't have much hope for Funchess, but I do have good hope for St. Brown shaping up and being a quality NFL WR.

[Packers4Glory]

I saw somewhere our cap situation isnt much better next year

[texaspackerbacker]

Gosh, I bet that was in the media hahahahahahahahahahaha.

Everybody's cap will be extremely better next year - the normal increase plus this year's increase that didn't happen plus the amount of the decrease this year.

[bobblehead]

Love has the GB organization behind him. Fields has the Bears organization behind him. I believe that Fields is a superior talent and prospect. I equally feel that Love will have the better NFL career if he stays with us.

[Joemailman]

Gosh, I bet that was in the media hahahahahahahahahahaha.

Everybody's cap will be extremely better next year - the normal increase plus this year's increase that didn't happen plus the amount of the decrease this year.

Packers have pushed a lot of money into 2022 to avoid having to cut players. Gute has said many times it's a 2 year process. Things won't get back to close to normal until 2023.

[smuggler]

Love has the GB organization behind him. Fields has the Bears organization behind him. I believe that Fields is a superior talent and prospect. I equally feel that Love will have the better NFL career if he stays with us.

As McMahon himself said, it's a QB graveyard in Chitown.

[texaspackerbacker]

Packers have pushed a lot of money into 2022 to avoid having to cut players. Gute has said many times it's a 2 year process. Things won't get back to close to normal until 2023.

And he was wise in doing so. I support Gutekunst in a lot of what he does - all except for the elephant in the room.

[call_me_ishmael]

Interesting percentage, but carrying a team and being a game changers or far from clear criteria, so you've safely hedged your position. How many game changers would you say there are right now in the NFL?

Rodgers
Wilson
Brady
Mahomes

Maybe Josh Allen
Maybe Murray

[sharpe1027]

Rodgers
Wilson
Brady
Mahomes

Maybe Josh Allen
Maybe Murray

Right. So that's a pretty high bar. A 5% of being that good is not bad at all.

[Sparkey]

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-exec-predicts-jordan-love-165733937.html

NFL exec predicts Jordan Love will be better than Justin Herbert

[smuggler]

Maybe Murray

Found the mole

[King Friday]

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-exec-predicts-jordan-love-165733937.html

NFL exec predicts Jordan Love will be better than Justin Herbert

The same crap was written about Darnold and Trubisky.

No one has a clue at this point how good Love could be since he had yet to take one snap in an NFL game that counts. Lots of guys with physical talent fail in the NFL. He's an unknown right now. He has a high ceiling, but he also still has a low floor. Gute basically said as much...and he's the guy who drafted him.

[sharpe1027]

The same crap was written about Darnold and Trubisky.

No one has a clue at this point how good Love could be since he had yet to take one snap in an NFL game that counts. Lots of guys with physical talent fail in the NFL. He's an unknown right now. He has a high ceiling, but he also still has a low floor. Gute basically said as much...and he's the guy who drafted him.

This is true, but at least he's good enough for someone to make the case and not get laughed out of the room.

[bobblehead]

Matt LaFleur's record with developing QB's argues against the idea that Rodgers' successor will be unsuccessful. RGIII, Kirk Cousins, Jared Goff, Matt Ryan and Rodgers all had arguably their best seasons while being coached by LaFleur. With the exception of Rodgers, I think Love has more natural ability than any of those guys.

And Marcus Marriotta who almost looked serviceable with Flower, but has looked like horseshit every season before and after him.

[bobblehead]

No one signed past 2021 except amari rodgers.

So what does that mean? It means they are young and ascending. Does anyone think they will let everyone walk and start over with Rodgers and a bunch of undrafted rookies??

[bobblehead]

Rodgers
Wilson
Brady
Mahomes

Maybe Josh Allen
Maybe Murray

Murry? Brady at this point? Even wilson makes me LMAO. There are 3 game changers right now and I need to see Allen for another season. There might only be 2 and Rodgers is 37.

I think this was a great QB draft with some great landing spots. I could see all of the top 3 becoming really good with Wilson the most likely to be the next Rodgers/Maholmes. Lance also has immense talent and a great landing spot, but so hard to bet on a guy with 288 tosses against lesser competition. I also think if Fields had went somewhere better he would have a chance.

[texaspackerbacker]

Lance and Fields seem like good candidates for that list in the other thread of QBs who bombed out.

Much as I like Russell Wilson, he's not quite at the "game changer" level. Brady was, but it's hard to say how good he would have been the last decade and a half if he didn't have the O Line and D that his team had.

Yeah, Rodgers and Mahomes, and even Mahomes occasionally shows signs of failing in the most important area: not throwing picks.

As for what we have in Jordan Love, I don't recall anybody other than me saying we should make some use of him other than proverbial clipboard holding in the 1, 2, 3, hopefully 4 or 5 years he is Rodgers' backup. If he's as mobile as people think, use him on a few wildcat plays, split him out and send him in motion occasionally with the possibility to hand it to him for an option pass, actually send him out as a receiver just to fuck with the D Coordinator's mind, see if he can return punts, maybe too.

[run pMc]

If you put Rodgers on JAX, CIN, HOU, DET or NYJ he wouldn't make the playoffs. He's good but he needs help. He can carry an offense and possibly a team IF he has a competent OL and a top 24 defense, but his days of singlehandedly carrying a team to the postseason are long gone, as 2018 proved.
GB's roster is good enough where a top 15 QB could lead them to a winning record if not playoffs, as 2019 Rodgers proved. When it all comes together, you win the top seed and are favored to win the NFCCG on your home field as last year proved.

My guess is Love is NOT ready for starting snaps, but in another year he might be. Nobody really knows, my guess is the coaches don't even know yet. He barely had an offseason or camp last year and wasn't even getting scout team reps. He was sitting and watching, and probably working on fundamentals. I think it's absurdly premature to make any decision or declaration on him. I do agree it's unlikely that GB will strike lightning 3 times in a row, but even if he's a mid-tier starting quality QB you could do worse. I say this remembering the likes of Randy Wright and Anthony Dilweg.

Nobody is confusing Ryan Tannehill with Aaron Rodgers, but he's managed to do ok with a strong supporting cast...Love could follow that path.

I agree with those who say that extending or guaranteeing Rodgers' contract will likely mean Love is gone. It becomes a major locker room issue, and a problem within management when the agent starts harassing GM for a trade. I don't see how you can keep a R1 QB pick on the bench for 4 or 5 years. 3 years would be the absolute max unless you know he doesn't have "it", in which case you probably trade him for a backup S (or as much as you can) in the offseason anyway.

[texaspackerbacker]

WHY would guaranteeing Rodgers' contract for 4 or 5 years mean Love is gone? What's wrong with having him be the backup if he is decent for 4 or 5 years? And if he's anything near as athletic as he is supposed to be, why would they not use Love in the other ways I have mentioned?

[run pMc]

WHY would guaranteeing Rodgers' contract for 4 or 5 years mean Love is gone? What's wrong with having him be the backup if he is decent for 4 or 5 years? And if he's anything near as athletic as he is supposed to be, why would they not use Love in the other ways I have mentioned?

Name one QB who was drafted in the first round that sat the entirety of their rookie contract, until the end of that contract. I'll wait.


Backup QBs usually come from 3 avenues:
(1) old veteran guy e.g., Joe Flacco
(2) retread guy who flamed out elsewhere, generally after being a very high pick, e.g., Blake Bortles
(3) late round or UDFA flyer, e.g., Tim Boyle, Graham Harrell, etc.

If you're drafted in the first round as a QB, you want to have a shot at starting. What young kid wouldn't? He's going to agitate to play, and if he's stuck behind an incumbent, he's eventually going to push for a trade so he can go elsewhere.

Also, spending a R1 for a backup player just isn't smart from a roster/cap standpoint. People here grouse about Oren Burks, and he's a R3 pick.
They drafted Jordan Love to be the backup for the first half of his rookie contract, but after that they expect him to progress as a project and push another QB to start, either here or for another club.

I have no problem with GB drafting a QB with a high pick, I just thought they did it a year early. Rodgers is no spring chicken and before anyone says "but Tom Brady..." he approaching 40 having had injuries that Brady hasn't, and is more of a running QB than Brady ever was. The odds are against him staying healthy for a 16 or 17 game season plus playoffs. If Rodgers comes back and they extend him, then they will almost certainly try to coach up Love into a tradeable asset that they can turnaround and use... to draft another replacement QB. You go to the pros to play.

[RashanGary]

QB's have long careers. Love could backup Rodgers for 4 years and still have all of his best years starting and make a fortune. He gets a lot of valuable experience backing up a HOfer. He won't like sitting but he's making a lot of money, should see injury time, and can find the silver lining in his educational experience. He is in the best situation to give him.his best chance when the time comes. Starting right away can hurt guys.

[wist43]

The neverending circular discussion... always comes back to - Love was a stupid pick. Never should have been drafted in the first place.

[George Cumby]

Bullshit.

Rodgers looked to be in decline before the 2020 season.

#12 is one injury from done.

[Bretsky]

Bullshit.

Rodgers looked to be in decline before the 2020 season.

#12 is one injury from done.



I don't but into this at all; Rodgers had one season in LaFleur's system. There was some adapting and its natural to have some challenges in year one

Maybe you don't buy into that; Gutebag definitely did not and would agree with you.

But I think the jump in play from year one to year two was not surprising.

With that being said, with your view then it sounds like you want Rodgers to be traded.

While I would not mind that (draft day with Denver would have been the time), I would rather keep Rodgers and win now

[Bretsky]

The neverending circular discussion... always comes back to - Love was a stupid pick. Never should have been drafted in the first place.



Truth be told, I don't hate the player; I hate the year. It was two years early. I'm not confident Love will be anything above average; but I'm happy to be wrong. The choice was not stupid; IMO the timing was

[RashanGary]

Truth be told, I don't hate the player; I hate the year. It was two years early. I'm not confident Love will be anything above average; but I'm happy to be wrong. The choice was not stupid; IMO the timing was

Unless Love is a HOF type quarterback, it was two years early. If Love is great, the pick is great regardless of how soon it was made. That’s a big if. But obviously they thought he was special, so they made the pick and now we wait and see.

[RashanGary]

There’s no doubt in my mind the Packers brass thought Love was special. No way they trade up otherwise.

[wist43]

Truth be told, I don't hate the player; I hate the year. It was two years early. I'm not confident Love will be anything above average; but I'm happy to be wrong. The choice was not stupid; IMO the timing was

I wouldn't have worried about QB until Rodgers was clearly done.

QB is such a difficult position to project... the vast majority don't succeed, regardless of round. Boyle has as much of a chance of succeeding once he gets a shot as Love does.

I like Love's arm talent too, but QB is more about what's between your ears as it is physical talent. Never would have drafted Love where and when they did.

The mess it's created is, by itself, enough to say it was a stupid pick.

[George Cumby]

I don't but into this at all; Rodgers had one season in LaFleur's system. There was some adapting and its natural to have some challenges in year one

Maybe you don't buy into that; Gutebag definitely did not and would agree with you.

But I think the jump in play from year one to year two was not surprising.

With that being said, with your view then it sounds like you want Rodgers to be traded.

While I would not mind that (draft day with Denver would have been the time), I would rather keep Rodgers and win now

Fair enough, but the 2019 season, Rodgers was off. Balls in the dirt, missing easy throws, poor timing, something wasn't right. Given what had happened to him in '17 an '18, his career looked to be on a downward trend.

2020 was a great ride, no question, but the MVP was far from a sure thing.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Love won’t be sitting on the bench for 4 years. He’s either starting by year 4 or they’ll move him because Rodgers is still playing like an MVP.

[texaspackerbacker]

The neverending circular discussion... always comes back to - Love was a stupid pick. Never should have been drafted in the first place.

This is absolutely true, but what RG said and what Bretsky said is also true.

As for what Cumby said, literally anybody in the NFL is "one injury away from being done". The chance of it happening to any given player, even an older one, is extremely small.

As for run pMc's question, I'll turn it around and ask, what #1 draft pick ever backed up the GOAT QB before? If Love is any good, he can wait. Besides, it's not up to him, at least not before the end of his rookie contract. I'm thinking it is about 60/40 or 70/30 that Love has a decent NFL career, and maybe a 10-20% chance he is a star quality player - maybe about .5 of 1% that he matches Aaron Rodgers for his career. So if he doesn't play himself out of contention, I'd keep him for 4 or 5 years as the backup.

And I'm still waiting for any comment pro or con about what to me seems obvious, that they should make use of Love in the mean time - wild cat, WR in motion as a diversion, WR in motion as a runner or passer, WR as an occasional pass receiver, punt returner.

[run pMc]

what #1 draft pick ever backed up the GOAT QB before?
Blaine Gabbert backed up Tom Brady last year. He was a high R1 pick for JAX and bounced around as a retread.

OR you could go older school and look at Steve Young backing up who I used to think was the GOAT - Joe Montana. Young was running for his life as a high R1 pick for Tampa before the Niners stole him, and that situation got ugly after a while. Montana ended his career with the Chiefs.


that they should make use of Love in the mean time - wild cat, WR in motion as a diversion, WR in motion as a runner or passer, WR as an occasional pass receiver, punt returner.

You want your backup QB returning punts? Really? If you think he's unfit to be a QB and should be a WR then you see something in him Gute and others do not. Turning him into Braxton Miller would be a weird use of a R1 pick, especially when there were WRs at that spot we were all hoping Gute would pick. I don't think Love is actually athletic enough to be a good WR; he's not big enough for TE. Maybe you could try turning him into Taysom Hill, if MLF wanted to install that part of an offense. I don't know.
I see your point about trying to get something out of him and play him with Rodgers on the team, but there isn't an easy path. I will say if they had a play where Love was in shotgun and Rodgers went out wide and just stood there disinterested like Jay Cutler did in Miami I would crack up laughing.

[sharpe1027]

Fair enough, but the 2019 season, Rodgers was off. Balls in the dirt, missing easy throws, poor timing, something wasn't right. Given what had happened to him in '17 an '18, his career looked to be on a downward trend.

2020 was a great ride, no question, but the MVP was far from a sure thing.

This. All day.

[Bretsky]

Agree Rodgers was off 2 years ago. He was still probably a top 10 QB.

Gute had to make the call if he had deteriorating skills or if that was due to the adjustment in a new system.

Gute made his call when he traded up for the Luvmachine

[sharpe1027]

Agree Rodgers was off 2 years ago. He was still probably a top 10 QB.

Gute had to make the call if he had deteriorating skills or if that was due to the adjustment in a new system.

Gute made his call when he traded up for the Luvmachine

I don't see it that binary. If Love wasn't there, I doubt they pick a QB at all. They probably saw a lot of value, and the play of Rodgers was only a portion of the decision.

[Upnorth]

2016 rodgers was at least top 5 but missing reads and to much holding ball or bailing on plays held him back. 2017 injury. 2018 tons of missed open receivers and not making plays with worsening accuracy. Still great but worse than 2016 and just back from major injury.
2019 new offense that was better for qb but he preformed worse. It's of under throws and misses. As well as missed reads. Worse than 2018.

3 years decline with a second major collar bone injury, qb falls in draft with tons of upside. That's why you draft the qb of the future. How do you assume there is an MVP year left?

[Fritz]

2016 rodgers was at least top 5 but missing reads and to much holding ball or bailing on plays held him back. 2017 injury. 2018 tons of missed open receivers and not making plays with worsening accuracy. Still great but worse than 2016 and just back from major injury.
2019 new offense that was better for qb but he preformed worse. It's of under throws and misses. As well as missed reads. Worse than 2018.

3 years decline with a second major collar bone injury, qb falls in draft with tons of upside. That's why you draft the qb of the future. How do you assume there is an MVP year left?

Hindsight, baby, hindsight!

[George Cumby]

Hindsight, baby, hindsight!

Oooooooooooooooh!

You mean that 20/20 thing!

[Joemailman]

Hopefully we won't be singing...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0LAs7X5ybE

[King Friday]

I don't see it that binary. If Love wasn't there, I doubt they pick a QB at all. They probably saw a lot of value, and the play of Rodgers was only a portion of the decision.

I agree with this. The Packers did not take Love because they felt Rodgers was already in decline. There was probably some uncertainty in his play during 18 and 19, but I would assume a lot of that was chalked up to staleness in McCarthy's scheme and then the transition to an entirely new scheme. Rodgers played poorly for him during those years, but he remained a top 6-8 QB despite the explainable variances.

[Joemailman]

PFF with their projection for Jordan Love as starter this year. This would be fairly comparable to Rodgers' 1st season as a starter which was 4038, 28, 13.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3jEBn7X0AIqZQ2?format=jpg&name=360x360

[bobblehead]

Hindsight, baby, hindsight!

/threadkiller

You nailed it Fritz. I wasn't nuts about the Love pick, but it only looks terrible in hindsight. All the rest of this is just us getting antsy for the season.

[Upnorth]

To me the love pick does not look terriblevin hindsight but incredibly intelligent still even if we lose 12.

3 times in his career he has gone out for the season and the back ups have been poor. 2019 was the best roster we have had outside of possibly 2010 and 2014 since 1997 prior to 2020. If the scouts thought love will be a decent backup at least then unless there was a great run defender (our true weakness coming out of 2019) no other position group needed depth more.

If 12 was an uninjured ironman like Favre or a quick release pocket passer like Brady then you don't have to plan for injury, rodgers isn't.
No brainer in hindsight and foresight unless you are a rodgers fan and not a packers fan.

[sharpe1027]

I'm of the mind that the whole Rodgers drama would have come about even without the Love pick. Therefore, it's looking pretty damn good in hindsight.

[texaspackerbacker]

Why would you think that, sharpe? I'd say it's pretty obvious that the Love pick and not talking to Rodgers about it is the biggest reason for the current mess.

Just the same, though, I'm also coming around in hindsight to the view that it may have been a decent pick - not for anything as stupid as anticipation of this current crap, but because it's starting to look like Love might be a good prospect for the (hopefully distant) future. It's also stupid to act like Rodgers is injury prone, but shit can happen to anybody. Just the same, neither Boyle nor Love nor Bortles nor anybody else there is a ghost of a chance we could have would be an adequate replacement for Rodgers. That 24 TDs and 15 Interceptions projected above is exactly the kind of mediocrity that would make the Packers a sub. .500 team.

[Upnorth]

If we have no run game and bad d that stat line gets us a loosing season. I though jones was a difference maker in many posters eyes, but maybe he isn't.

That stat line with an average at best run game with bad game design for running equalled 6-10 in rodgers rookie year. We have a better team and better gane plan. I think that stat line gets us 10-7 ish.

However with Lafluer I don't think he get 4000 yards or 25 yrs. I think it gets 3600ish yards and 20ish tds with jones/dillion/deguara stealing yards and tds

[texaspackerbacker]

You think Deguara is gonna be running the ball? Sheeeeesh. That's about as far out as this silly whole scenario of life after Rodgers anytime soon.

[Joemailman]

You think Deguara is gonna be running the ball? Sheeeeesh. That's about as far out as this silly whole scenario of life after Rodgers anytime soon.

He might run the ball a little bit. Since there's no true FB on the roster, he might fill that role. He's been compared to Kyle Juszczyk of SF who ran the ball some last year.

[George Cumby]

PFF with their projection for Jordan Love as starter this year. This would be fairly comparable to Rodgers' 1st season as a starter which was 4038, 28, 13.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3jEBn7X0AIqZQ2?format=jpg&name=360x360

I'd buy that for a dollar.

[RashanGary]

Wolf tree GMs have been home run hitters at the QB position. Love, a boom or bust prospect with an upside similar to Mahommes or Rodgers, is in an absolutely ideal situation to master his fundamentals and subtleties before he has to play.

The Packers took a gamble on 15 more years of possible greatness. He’s starting to shine in spurts.

I will actually feel bad for Bears and Vikings fans if we somehow luck (not all luck) into 15 more years of HOF level QB play. There’s one HOF QB picked every 3 years or so. I don’t think they would have taken him if they didn’t think there was a chance at greatness. I’m crossing my fingers. Love truly panning out is more impactful than anything Rodgers can do for the rest of his career. Let’s hope we get to see Love shine this preseason!


And if not, it’s one first round pick that could have easily been dial tone Jones, Sherrod or Harrell. No harm no foul. Good pick.

[Bretsky]

Wolf tree GMs have been home run hitters at the QB position. Love, a boom or bust prospect with an upside similar to Mahommes or Rodgers, is in an absolutely ideal situation to master his fundamentals and subtleties before he has to play.

The Packers took a gamble on 15 more years of possible greatness. He’s starting to shine in spurts.

I will actually feel bad for Bears and Vikings fans if we somehow luck (not all luck) into 15 more years of HOF level QB play. There’s one HOF QB picked every 3 years or so. I don’t think they would have taken him if they didn’t think there was a chance at greatness. I’m crossing my fingers. Love truly panning out is more impactful than anything Rodgers can do for the rest of his career. Let’s hope we get to see Love shine this preseason!


And if not, it’s one first round pick that could have easily been dial tone Jones, Sherrod or Harrell. No harm no foul. Good pick.


Or J Alexander. If he's a boom great pick. If he's a bust it was a shitty one. Hopefully he's a boom

[call_me_ishmael]

You are such a homer lol. Love, with Mahomes or Rodgers potential. LOL wtf, the kid was a mid-tier QB prospect in a shitty QB draft and you're comparing him to two of the most talented QBs of all time. That's a bit much. Every dark skinned kid that can throw a football a quarter mile doesn't need to be compared to Mahomes. Remember, this dude sucked ass in college and couldn't even make his shitty juco teammates better or dominate a shitty league. It's not like he was in a crap program playing in the SEC. He was at a crap program playing against fellow crap programs.

I don't see any Rodgers in him. Rodgers doesn't throw interceptions. Love is known for locking until his receivers and throwing into traffic.

The nfl.com comparison is Blake Bortles. I don't see that one either personally. Bortles is thicky thick. Physically I can see where people make the Mahomes comparison but I would say that's where it ends. That is a wildly unfair comparison.

[sharpe1027]

And Rodgers had no shot in the NFL because he's just a product of a system. Another Tedford QB bust.

Look, it's more likely the kid will flame out, but let's not pretend to know more than is possible. We don't know if he'll bust, be HOF material, or just be a decent QB. Nobody does. If anyone thinks they know for sure how he'll turn out, they're an idiot.

[texaspackerbacker]

He seems to have a lot of potential, but if he's gonna progress beyond ordinary, he needs to make a commitment to be down right Rodgers-like in terms of not throwing interceptions.

[sharpe1027]

An interesting stat:
Team records when finishing a game with 0 sacks:
2019: 49-16 (0.754)

Team records when finishing a game with 0 INTs:
2019: 153-90-1 (0.629)

[King Friday]

I completely agree on the need to pump the brakes on the Mahomes comparisons. For starters, that isn't fair to Love at this point. Give the kid some time to develop and become Jordan Love. The early feedback on his first mandatory minicamp is certainly positive. He looked like a complete rookie at times, but also made plays all across the field on occasion. For a young kid, that is a step in the right direction. He does appear to have some big play ability, which is a significant aspect as that is something that really can't be taught. You could see that early with Favre and Rodgers as well, although we'll see how the kid does in camp as things ratchet up a notch. He's clearly been working hard at it, and there is hope that he could be a very good starter.

[King Friday]

He seems to have a lot of potential, but if he's gonna progress beyond ordinary, he needs to make a commitment to be down right Rodgers-like in terms of not throwing interceptions.

Rodgers Super Bowl wins: 1
Favre Super Bowl wins: 1

I'm not sure being Rodgers-like in terms of avoiding INTs is what guarantees success. He just needs to keep his INT % under 2 percent.

[Fritz]

And Rodgers had no shot in the NFL because he's just a product of a system. Another Tedford QB bust.

Look, it's more likely the kid will flame out, but let's not pretend to know more than is possible. We don't know if he'll bust, be HOF material, or just be a decent QB. Nobody does. If anyone thinks they know for sure how he'll turn out, they're an idiot.

This is your problem right here, Sharpie. The whole point of sites like this is to pretend you know way more than you could possibly know - and when your bombast turns out to be true (probably due to luck and coincidence) you trumpet your success and how smart you are. When your "knowledge" turns out to the the bullshit it is, you just pretend you never said it and let the thread get buried.

That's what I do, and as a result I have been right so often on so many players, and I am never wrong because no one cares enough to keep track of my flow of incorrect assertions. I am currently working on rehabilitating my assertion that Rashan Gary would suck ass. On the one hand, if he doesn't break through this year I will proclaim that I knew it all along. If he does break through I will start talking about how impressive he is, and then, after some time passes, I'll casually mention that I knew he'd be great all along.

[sharpe1027]

This is your problem right here, Sharpie. The whole point of sites like this is to pretend you know way more than you could possibly know - and when your bombast turns out to be true (probably due to luck and coincidence) you trumpet your success and how smart you are. When your "knowledge" turns out to the the bullshit it is, you just pretend you never said it and let the thread get buried.

That's what I do, and as a result I have been right so often on so many players, and I am never wrong because no one cares enough to keep track of my flow of incorrect assertions. I am currently working on rehabilitating my assertion that Rashan Gary would suck ass. On the one hand, if he doesn't break through this year I will proclaim that I knew it all along. If he does break through I will start talking about how impressive he is, and then, after some time passes, I'll casually mention that I knew he'd be great all along.

You've cracked the code. You just need to play both sides of the fence. Make sure to keep enough time between position changes that nobody calls you out. You can them go back select the appropriate post and be right on every single player.

[Spaulding]

The discussion on interceptions is an interesting debate. I agree on protecting the ball and few have done it better than Rodgers, but not all interceptions are equal and not all interceptions that didn't happen equate to better play. Case in point, taking a chance downfield on 3rd and long results in an INT that is stopped 30yds downfield. Is that much worse than a punt from Scott whose net is in the high 30's? Debatable there. Also, not throwing the ball downfield and taking a sack instead? Losing yardage and then relying on your punter to change the field has it's issues too.

Also remember as much Favre drove us nuts with some of his picks (Rams playoff game being a low point along with the chuck it against Philly), he also made plays that made jump out of your seat at times and had a youthful excitement to some amazing plays.

I think Rodgers aversion to risking an INT is at times a liability. I'd love to see him take a few more chances in close games and so if Love throws 10 picks a year I'd be fine with that provided his TD ratio is at least double that and ideally triple that or more.

[RashanGary]

An interesting stat:
Team records when finishing a game with 0 sacks:
2019: 49-16 (0.754)

Team records when finishing a game with 0 INTs:
2019: 153-90-1 (0.629)

That throws a wrench in Rodgers interceptions being worth the sacks

[RashanGary]

Look, HOFers are rare, but Love was taken on upside. Wolf tree QBs have a good history of being HOFers. Im not saying he will be, but we can’t rule anything out. Just as a fan, I like to imagine the upside and hope for the best case scenario. I don’t know anything other than Love has a cannon with mobility and a history of making a lot happen without a lot to work with. It looks like he’s grinding to be better. I would put odds that he fails before becomes HOFer but as a fan I’m gonna talk about the upside before i doubt everything he does. I’ll adjust my viewpoint after seeing him in preseason. That’s when we get the first glimpse at his progress

[call_me_ishmael]

And Rodgers had no shot in the NFL because he's just a product of a system. Another Tedford QB bust.

Look, it's more likely the kid will flame out, but let's not pretend to know more than is possible. We don't know if he'll bust, be HOF material, or just be a decent QB. Nobody does. If anyone thinks they know for sure how he'll turn out, they're an idiot.

Packers have a pretty good idea

[call_me_ishmael]

That throws a wrench in Rodgers interceptions being worth the sacks

Dumb stat. Compare pressures/hurries and ints. If a QB is clean the whole game of course they’re gonna win. That is very rare.

[texaspackerbacker]

That throws a wrench in Rodgers interceptions being worth the sacks

A 1 yard loss by the QB on a pass play goes down as a sack. An interception is change of possession. It's stupid to claim a sack is as bad as a pick. I can't explain that stat except to say it defies logic - just scrambling by anti-homers trying to throw shit on Rodgers.

[sharpe1027]

Dumb stat. Compare pressures/hurries and ints. If a QB is clean the whole game of course they’re gonna win. That is very rare.

There's no such thing as a dumb stat. There are dumb uses of a stat. If you're implying someone's interpreting it as black and white sacks vs interceptions, that's not very smart. It's a straw man argument, however, since that's not what anyone said. Nobody claimed a sack is as bad as a pick, so everyone calm down and pretend you have some respect for others intelligence and not act like everyone else is a moron.

What's not debatable is that sacks and interceptions are both bad. It's pretty universally accepted that picks are worse on a one for one comparison. The real question, in my mind, is where is the sweet spot between taking more sacks to reduce interceptions. I think we can all agree that it is theoretically possible to be so risk averse that you take a ton of sacks and the offense stalls out. I'm not claiming Rodger's crossed that line, but to focus solely on picks is not seeing the whole picture. There's always tradeoffs.

[Upnorth]

An interesting stat:
Team records when finishing a game with 0 sacks:
2019: 49-16 (0.754)

Team records when finishing a game with 0 INTs:
2019: 153-90-1 (0.629)

An ol giving up 0 sacks shows dominance. A qb throwing 0 interceptions happens relatively regularly.
I have seen a number of 0 int games for both teams but can't remember a 0 sacks game for both teams.

A 0 int game does def help winning though

[sharpe1027]

An ol giving up 0 sacks shows dominance. A qb throwing 0 interceptions happens relatively regularly.
I have seen a number of 0 int games for both teams but can't remember a 0 sacks game for both teams.

A 0 int game does def help winning though

Right. Sacks happen more frequently, so it's a bigger outlier to have zero sacks. That suggests that there's more room for teams to improve by limiting sacks than by limiting picks. The reason being they're already doing a good job of limiting picks on average.

[texaspackerbacker]

Does the QB rating thing include sacks? Just asking - I think no, but I'm not sure. Number of sacks says a helluva lot more about the O Line than the QB. The ratio of TDs to picks would seem to best reflect QB quality.

[run pMc]

Does the QB rating thing include sacks? Just asking - I think no, but I'm not sure. Number of sacks says a helluva lot more about the O Line than the QB. The ratio of TDs to picks would seem to best reflect QB quality.

The rating where 158.3 is the max does not.
Passer rating is based on four metrics: completion percentage, yards per passing attempt, touchdown percentage, and interception percentage. It was designed in the 70's, and thus some claim it's outdated or doesn't account for modern passing offenses.
Those offenses, the way defense is officiated, and the way QBs are coached have caused interceptions to plummet. 6 teams had < 10 interceptions last year, and the rate has fallen from 3.3% in 2000 to 3.0 in 2010 to 2.2% last year.
Sacks have gone down a little since 2000, not much since 2010. Teams still scheme pressure. That the number of passes has increased over time indicates sack rate is a little lower.

Turning the ball over is still a good way to lose a game, your QB getting pummeled and consistently having to face 3rd and 16 doesn't help either. I think comparing them is apples to oranges, but I'd rather my QB throw the ball away or take a sack then throw a pick.

(I realize the data sets I picked are small, I expect someone could pull all this and do an extensive dive if PFF or FO hasn't already:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2000/#all_passing
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2010/#all_passing
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/#all_passing)

[RashanGary]

A 1 yard loss by the QB on a pass play goes down as a sack. An interception is change of possession. It's stupid to claim a sack is as bad as a pick. I can't explain that stat except to say it defies logic - just scrambling by anti-homers trying to throw shit on Rodgers.

Drives with a sack almost always end in a change of possession.

[Zool]

You are such a homer lol. Love, with Mahomes or Rodgers potential. LOL wtf, the kid was a mid-tier QB prospect in a shitty QB draft and you're comparing him to two of the most talented QBs of all time. That's a bit much. Every dark skinned kid that can throw a football a quarter mile doesn't need to be compared to Mahomes. Remember, this dude sucked ass in college and couldn't even make his shitty juco teammates better or dominate a shitty league. It's not like he was in a crap program playing in the SEC. He was at a crap program playing against fellow crap programs.

I don't see any Rodgers in him. Rodgers doesn't throw interceptions. Love is known for locking until his receivers and throwing into traffic.

The nfl.com comparison is Blake Bortles. I don't see that one either personally. Bortles is thicky thick. Physically I can see where people make the Mahomes comparison but I would say that's where it ends. That is a wildly unfair comparison.

He’s a very mobile QB with a strong arm. Can “make all the throws”. That’s the comp. no one is saying he’s going to be them, just the physical measurable are there.

[texaspackerbacker]

Drives with a sack almost always end in a change of possession.

Are you sure about that? I tend to doubt it. Since they keep stats on just about everything, maybe somebody can find out one way or the other. I'd estimate 32.6%.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Are you sure about that? I tend to doubt it. Since they keep stats on just about everything, maybe somebody can find out one way or the other. I'd estimate 32.6%.

53.4

Stats from 2017-2019

[Upnorth]

Does the QB rating thing include sacks? Just asking - I think no, but I'm not sure. Number of sacks says a helluva lot more about the O Line than the QB. The ratio of TDs to picks would seem to best reflect QB quality.

I think it depends when the sack happens. Any sack before 2.3 seconds should be on the oline unless it is stupid play design. Nanything over 2.7 should be more on the qb. You can't expect the oline to engage and hold blocks forever and win. Plus each extended block drains them more and more. It's one of the reasons quick trigger qb and offense tend towards higher efficiency. Less energy expended = more for next time, so easier to succeed

It's the difference between feeling tired and exhausted after a game.

[Upnorth]

53.4

Stats from 2017-2019

I'm suprised it is that high. But it makes sense. 1 less down to make up a little more yards.

[RashanGary]

53.4

Stats from 2017-2019

I looked for it. Thanks. Penalties are similar.

It just shows that interceptions and fumbles aren’t the only negative things that affect drives. You can’t look at touchdown/interception ratio without considering sacks too. Three sacks might be as bad as 1 interception.

We already know that no sack games lead to wins more than no interception games so it’s a factor in outcomes.

[RashanGary]

No sack games often mean you have the lead I would suspect. A lot of must pass situations lead to sacks.

No sack games probably means you have a run game keeping pass rushers honest

No sack games often come against lesser quality opponents

No sack games usually have good OL and good QBs

No sack games are rare

There are a lot of reasons no sack games correlate to wins more than no interception games. Regardless of all the possible reasons, sacks are still drive stalling plays that often end in punts or field goals. When looking at a QB, low sacks AND low interceptions both count for something. There’s a such thing as a good sack or a good risk that leads to a pick.

I don’t think Rodgers TD/INT ratio makes him the goat. It’s part of the conversation but his sacks do bring him down a notch too. He’s always held the ball. It’s a part of his legacy .

[bobblehead]

I think it depends when the sack happens. Any sack before 2.3 seconds should be on the oline unless it is stupid play design. Nanything over 2.7 should be more on the qb. You can't expect the oline to engage and hold blocks forever and win. Plus each extended block drains them more and more. It's one of the reasons quick trigger qb and offense tend towards higher efficiency. Less energy expended = more for next time, so easier to succeed

It's the difference between feeling tired and exhausted after a game.

There are other reasons as well, and as I have posted over 100x, run blocking saps the defense, pass blocking saps the offense (Lines, not other positions.)

[bobblehead]

I looked for it. Thanks. Penalties are similar.

It just shows that interceptions and fumbles aren’t the only negative things that affect drives. You can’t look at touchdown/interception ratio without considering sacks too. Three sacks might be as bad as 1 interception.

We already know that no sack games lead to wins more than no interception games so it’s a factor in outcomes.

All these factor into why MLF/McDaniels have a superior offense to fat mike/current Tomlin. More running and quick hits, less time for penalties/sacks/interceptions. Coaching matters...a lot. I am in a dynasty league and landing spot is everything. Lets look at QB class last year. Other than lawrence/Burrow last years class was superior. But landing spot. Lance and Wilson are in great offenses in this draft. I don't believe either of them has the overall resume as fields, but he landed in Chicago, where QBs go to die.

[bobblehead]

I'll also note this. Look at all the great QBs who win Owls. Once they sign a big deal and teams get more passing weapons, they honestly start winning less. Pitt/GB/seattle. All 3 of them are much better when they focus on the run and defense. NE as well, but they never "switched". All 3 of those teams above went pass happy at some point and weren't the same team after. GB switched back last 2 years, Pitt is tryin to this year. I see the correlation over and over. You must run a smart balanced offense to win (and play great D).

[texaspackerbacker]

53.4

Stats from 2017-2019

hahahaha, ok, thanks. 53.4% not 32.6% - compared to 100% for an interception.

[texaspackerbacker]

I think it depends when the sack happens. Any sack before 2.3 seconds should be on the oline unless it is stupid play design. Nanything over 2.7 should be more on the qb. You can't expect the oline to engage and hold blocks forever and win. Plus each extended block drains them more and more. It's one of the reasons quick trigger qb and offense tend towards higher efficiency. Less energy expended = more for next time, so easier to succeed

It's the difference between feeling tired and exhausted after a game.

You're discounting the fact that virtually all of those 2.7 seconds plus cases are the QB being flushed out of the pocket instead of just falling down and taking a sack or throwing it away or putting it up for grabs. There is a third possibility too that probably accounts for as many or more sacks as O Line mess ups or QB bad decisions. That would be the receivers not getting open - coverage sacks from the D's point of view.

At the risk of being called a heretic on this pleasant Sunday morning, I grew up watching the magnificence of Bart Starr, and often wishing we had somebody like Tarkenton at QB. I bet Ol' Fran went over 2.7 a helluva lot of times.

[texaspackerbacker]

The offense of a team is and should be determined mainly by the personnel of the team. If you've got Trent Dilfer at QB and a super D, you play run-first and let your D win it. If you've got Laveon Bell or Ezekial Elliot in their brief prime, you maybe ride them and pass less. Ditto that for Derrick Henry and whoever LaFleur had at QB at Tennessee. But pretty much everybody else, you pass first and pass most, because THAT's what wins games.

[RashanGary]

hahahaha, ok, thanks. 53.4% not 32.6% - compared to 100% for an interception.

Yes tex, interceptions are worse than sacks. But the point we’re making is sacks are bad. Holding the ball is usually bad. Young Rodgers, Watson, Wilson could do it but it still leads to a lot of dead drives due to sacks. So the low interceptions of the ball holding QBs isn’t quite as impressive as it looks at a glance.

[RashanGary]

You're discounting the fact that virtually all of those 2.7 seconds plus cases are the QB being flushed out of the pocket instead of just falling down and taking a sack or throwing it away or putting it up for grabs. There is a third possibility too that probably accounts for as many or more sacks as O Line mess ups or QB bad decisions. That would be the receivers not getting open - coverage sacks from the D's point of view.

At the risk of being called a heretic on this pleasant Sunday morning, I grew up watching the magnificence of Bart Starr, and often wishing we had somebody like Tarkenton at QB. I bet Ol' Fran went over 2.7 a helluva lot of times.

Great QBs know how to put the ball in the right place instead of take a sack. It’s either a catch or an incompletion, not a sack. There are other ways to beat pressure than mobility. Brady, Brees and Manning have proved that 100 times over.

[Upnorth]

There are other reasons as well, and as I have posted over 100x, run blocking saps the defense, pass blocking saps the offense (Lines, not other positions.)

100% agree there are more factors. Just adding to the convo as it relates to sacks not everything else. Heck a good run game reduces sacks in my opinion as it forces the rushers to honor the run.

[texaspackerbacker]

Yes tex, interceptions are worse than sacks. But the point we’re making is sacks are bad. Holding the ball is usually bad. Young Rodgers, Watson, Wilson could do it but it still leads to a lot of dead drives due to sacks. So the low interceptions of the ball holding QBs isn’t quite as impressive as it looks at a glance.

I would argue that holding the ball longer - in Rodgers' case anyway, about 9 times out of 10 results in something a lot more good than bad. I'd also argue that it's not because he just wants to drag out the play, but because the line is doing a shoddy job of stopping the pass rush and/or the receivers aren't getting open.

[texaspackerbacker]

Great QBs know how to put the ball in the right place instead of take a sack. It’s either a catch or an incompletion, not a sack. There are other ways to beat pressure than mobility. Brady, Brees and Manning have proved that 100 times over.

And that's the kind of QB you like? Fine if that's your preference. Myself, I'd much prefer somebody like Rodgers, Tarkenton, maybe Elway, maybe Russell Wilson, Dashaun Watson, Lamar Jackson, Dak Prescott, or Mahomes. Add Favre to the good bunch too - he was a scrambler by necessity most of the time too.

[Joemailman]

I would argue that holding the ball longer - in Rodgers' case anyway, about 9 times out of 10 results in something a lot more good than bad. I'd also argue that it's not because he just wants to drag out the play, but because the line is doing a shoddy job of stopping the pass rush and/or the receivers aren't getting open.

He's holding the ball longer because the offensive line is doing such a bad job pass blocking? Now that's a novel theory.

[texaspackerbacker]

Novel theory? Watch just about every play just about every game. Somebody or several somebodys are in on him almost before he can turn around. 4 choices: throw it away, put if up for grabs, fall down for a sack, or use his mobility to reset or throw on the run for a completion. Obviously, I'll take the last one of those choices.

[sharpe1027]

Novel theory? Watch just about every play just about every game. Somebody or several somebodys are in on him almost before he can turn around. 4 choices: throw it away, put if up for grabs, fall down for a sack, or use his mobility to reset or throw on the run for a completion. Obviously, I'll take the last one of those choices.

What people are talking about are the times he sits in the pocket for longer than normal, not when he's got immediate pressure.

[RashanGary]

What people are talking about are the times he sits in the pocket for longer than normal, not when he's got immediate pressure.

Tex insists that doesn't happen. Sometimes texs way of using his observation instead of group think is a good thing. Other times hes observing things that just aren't happening. The OL being poor all of 12s career just never happened.

[call_me_ishmael]

There's no such thing as a dumb stat. There are dumb uses of a stat. If you're implying someone's interpreting it as black and white sacks vs interceptions, that's not very smart. It's a straw man argument, however, since that's not what anyone said. Nobody claimed a sack is as bad as a pick, so everyone calm down and pretend you have some respect for others intelligence and not act like everyone else is a moron.

What's not debatable is that sacks and interceptions are both bad. It's pretty universally accepted that picks are worse on a one for one comparison. The real question, in my mind, is where is the sweet spot between taking more sacks to reduce interceptions. I think we can all agree that it is theoretically possible to be so risk averse that you take a ton of sacks and the offense stalls out. I'm not claiming Rodger's crossed that line, but to focus solely on picks is not seeing the whole picture. There's always tradeoffs.

True. good post.

[Joemailman]

“I keep telling him day by day, ‘You’re getting better,’ outside linebacker Rashan Gary said. “He has a hell of an arm. I’m happy that we drafted him, and every rep that he gets, he’s getting better. He’s showing that whatever the circumstances may be, he will be ready and he’s pushing himself for that. I’m happy for his growth and happy to see him in the right mindset. Jordan Love is an unfinished product, but he’s going to get to where he needs to be.”

Interesting to see Rashan Gary speaking up for Love. I wonder if there could be an interesting dynamic developing. Rodgers is 10-15 years older than most of his teammates. I'm sure they all respect him, but some might have more of a rapport with Love. I wonder if there is a significant portion of the team that won't exactly be heartbroken if Rodgers doesn't return to the Packers.

[texaspackerbacker]

Tex insists that doesn't happen. Sometimes texs way of using his observation instead of group think is a good thing. Other times hes observing things that just aren't happening. The OL being poor all of 12s career just never happened.

Right. Virtually never anyway. "The OL being poor" is a bit extreme, but not being near as good as they maybe should be, that's very accurate. The negativists praised Rodgers for not taking so long last season ...... why? what was difference? I would say better pass receivers, a better running game threat with Aaron Jones, and the misdirection, better pass routes, etc. of LaFleur. When the whiners didn't like him, it was other circumstances than his mindset. When he improved in their eyes, it was also those other factors.

[Fritz]

I would imagine this might be the case. As you say, based on age alone. Add in the eye rolls and the sometimes distant persona, and it may be that while many appreciate his skill and work ethic and what he's done for the team, they may feel that all comes at a cost.

[call_me_ishmael]

He’s a very mobile QB with a strong arm. Can “make all the throws”. That’s the comp. no one is saying he’s going to be them, just the physical measurable are there.

Could just as easily be a Mitch Trubisky comp then. Same deal, right? Mobile, big time arm, questionable decision making, etc.

[bobblehead]

Could just as easily be a Mitch Trubisky comp then. Same deal, right? Mobile, big time arm, questionable decision making, etc.

Agree. And that is where my point about coaching comes in. I have seen coaches ruin and make QBs. Oh, the Andrew Lucks and the Trevor Lawrence usually overcome it, but guys like Dilfer go from failures to Owl winners when they get put in the right system to succeed.

I actually said Trubisky is very smart going to Buffalo. He comps to Allen in a lot of ways and going to a program that got the most out of a guy like himself makes sense. I also have said that Bortles comps to many good QBs who landed in better positions. He has spent his post Jaguar time in the Shanahan offenses, first With McVay and now with MiLF.

[Zool]

Could just as easily be a Mitch Trubisky comp then. Same deal, right? Mobile, big time arm, questionable decision making, etc.

Could be a Fran Tarkinton comp too I suppose. They are trying to be optimistic. Let em have this one, because the odds of hitting a 3rd consecutive 15 year starter are nearing 0.

[texaspackerbacker]

Could just as easily be a Mitch Trubisky comp then. Same deal, right? Mobile, big time arm, questionable decision making, etc.

You're 2/3 right, and that's why I always had a higher opinion of Trubisky than most people. You just don't see the questionable decision making from Rodgers, though. It's a matter of mindset. I always dreaded that Trubisky might just wake up for the Bears and decide not to throw it to the other team so much.

Love also has those first two - mobility and supposedly big time arm. If he stays with the Packers, it's absolutely urgent that he observes Aaron Rodgers and emulates his mindset. If he ends up going elsewhere, fuck him. Let him go the way of Trubisky or numerous other guys with NFL arms and legs.

Why the Tarkenton comparison? Never mind following two 15 year + guys. He literally didn't follow anybody as a Viking.

[run pMc]

Could just as easily be a Mitch Trubisky comp then. Same deal, right? Mobile, big time arm, questionable decision making, etc.

Love had more college starts than Trubisky, who was essentially a one-year wonder. That counts for something.
Trubisky was rushed into playing too soon for the Bears IMO and while I think in the right situation he could revive his career, I think he struggles to read the field (especially under pressure) and that will hold him back.
Jordan Love has plenty college tape where he's working thru progressions, so I think there's at least hope he'll pan out to be a decent NFL starter.

I think the odds of him being HOF caliber are low simply because lightning striking 3 times in a row at QB would really be something. I suppose you could point out they've brought in other QBs since Rodgers (Brohm, Hundley, Coleman, etc.) but none were drafted as highly as Love.

[Sparkey]

He's holding the ball longer because the offensive line is doing such a bad job pass blocking? Now that's a novel theory.

We know this record. All success belongs to AR and all failure is on someone else.

[Spaulding]

We know this record. All success belongs to AR and all failure is on someone else.

Amen. If only we had #12 playing OL/WR/TE/RB/DL/LB/CB/S as well we'd be a lock to win it all every year.

[run pMc]

Novel theory? Watch just about every play just about every game. Somebody or several somebodys are in on him almost before he can turn around. 4 choices: throw it away, put if up for grabs, fall down for a sack, or use his mobility to reset or throw on the run for a completion. Obviously, I'll take the last one of those choices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD1hU6ucXeA
I'd argue Cousins was pressured -- and hit -- more than Rodgers, and it's not really that close. Rodgers got the ball out very quick. There were a handful of plays where he rolled out, one where he threw the ball away because nobody was open, another one he hit Adams for a TD even though he had others open.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzuYg08vdlc
A little more pressure on Rodgers this game, but again -- Stafford was under more, was sacked/hit more, etc. He had one or two rollouts that were really unnecessary unless they were to influence a safety. Otherwise he had a pretty clean pocket. You don't put up nearly 40 points in back to back games without good blocking.

I can go on from here, but I don't see defenders on top of him before he can set his feet in the pocket. I do see him making lightning fast decisions and getting rid of the ball quickly -- far more quickly than in the M3 offense -- and a defense simply can't get to the QB when that happens.
I'd have to go back and chart it, but I'd bet a sizable percentage of the time -- perhaps as much as half -- he holds the ball despite having a receiver open because he's waiting for a bigger play to uncover. That's interesting as it's counter to the risk-averse no interceptions behavior. It also makes it look like he's under more pressure than he is. If you hold the ball for 3-4 seconds a decent pass rush should get to you.

[Upnorth]

Run pmc, great post

[run pMc]

There is no doubt in my mind that Rodgers played great last year and deserved the MVP.

My point is that the narrative that it was in spite of the OL or that the OL is mediocre is a myth. There was a game last year (I can't remember which -- maybe vs. CHI on 11/29) where Rodgers had a completely clean jersey and joked about it in the press conference after the game. He wasn't even hit. 20 sacks in a season is pretty good.

Now, Jordan Love in year 2 or 3 won't be that good. He might never be that good. But he might if the coaches bring him along in a smart way and Love has the brains and talent.

[RashanGary]

There is no doubt in my mind that Rodgers played great last year and deserved the MVP.

My point is that the narrative that it was in spite of the OL or that the OL is mediocre is a myth. There was a game last year (I can't remember which -- maybe vs. CHI on 11/29) where Rodgers had a completely clean jersey and joked about it in the press conference after the game. He wasn't even hit. 20 sacks in a season is pretty good.

Now, Jordan Love in year 2 or 3 won't be that good. He might never be that good. But he might if the coaches bring him along in a smart way and Love has the brains and talent.

A lot of uncertainty with what love is or could be. Same for Stokes, and Lazard and MVS and others. Tonyan too while we’re at it. As a fan I like to hope for the best. I’d rather be let down every year than never get my hopes up at all.

If I had to bet on Love, I would bet he busts. Odds are not in his favor to be great. But I still cross my fingers for that chance that he is great. I don’t rule it out.

[Joemailman]

A lot of uncertainty with what love is or could be. Same for Stokes, and Lazard and MVS and others. Tonyan too while we’re at it. As a fan I like to hope for the best. I’d rather be let down every year than never get my hopes up at all.

If I had to bet on Love, I would bet he busts. Odds are not in his favor to be great. But I still cross my fingers for that chance that he is great. I don’t rule it out.

There's plenty of room between those 2 extremes. Above average starters like Eli Manning, Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford come to mind. Eli Manning won titles because the Giants had great defenses and ran the ball. Matt Stafford didn't because the Lions didn't. I think Gute is putting together the kind of team that could win a title without Love being the Packers next HOF QB. But he has to be more than Don Majkowski.

[sharpe1027]

There's plenty of room between those 2 extremes. Above average starters like Eli Manning, Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford come to mind. Eli Manning won titles because the Giants had great defenses and ran the ball. Matt Stafford didn't because the Lions didn't. I think Gute is putting together the kind of team that could win a title without Love being the Packers next HOF QB. But he has to be more than Don Majkowski.

Layoff the Majik man. I like to blame the injury so I can have fond memories of that awesome season.

[Upnorth]

I think love will be a slightly worse Dante Culpeper out of the gate. Great team around him. Big arm fairly mobile occasionally stupid play. Maybe I'm to optimistic but I see parallels between the 2. And if love had a better sr team around him I bet he is drafted between 10 and 15 last year.

[George Cumby]

I think love will be a slightly worse Dante Culpeper out of the gate. Great team around him. Big arm fairly mobile occasionally stupid play. Maybe I'm to optimistic but I see parallels between the 2. And if love had a better sr team around him I bet he is drafted between 10 and 15 last year.

Interesting, I didn't think about Culpepper as a comparison, have to look at that.

[Fritz]

Layoff the Majik man. I like to blame the injury so I can have fond memories of that awesome season.

I think Majik was a bit above average - at least until he got hurt. He was exciting.

Not as good as Lynn Dickey but way better than David Whitehurst.

[sharpe1027]

I think Majik was a bit above average - at least until he got hurt. He was exciting.

Not as good as Lynn Dickey but way better than David Whitehurst.

I just loved that year. Finnally having something good to watch after so long without a good team. I therefore refuse to acknowledge reality and will substitute my own reality.

[Spaulding]

I just loved that year. Finnally having something good to watch after so long without a good team. I therefore refuse to acknowledge reality and will substitute my own reality.

10-6 baby!! Finally a non-losing non .500 season. Although the years of Lynn Dickey with Lofton/Coffman/Jefferson/Ivory were pretty fun too. Then again the year of Turdell was special as well given the dark years of Barty Smith being the leading rusher prior.

[bobblehead]

Layoff the Majik man. I like to blame the injury so I can have fond memories of that awesome season.

The cardiac pack!!! There may have been better records and even a couple Owls, but for many of us, that season was incredible. Especially coming off many losing years before it. I will always appreciate Majik for the energy he brought.

[Sparkey]

The cardiac pack!!! There may have been better records and even a couple Owls, but for many of us, that season was incredible. Especially coming off many losing years before it. I will always appreciate Majik for the energy he brought.

In total yards, they had the 6th best offense in the NFL.
27 TD's against 20 INT's - 362 total points

Think of what numbers Majik would put up with todays pass defense rules.

[Upnorth]

I don't know why but I keep setting my level of expectation for love higher and higher. He was a bad mfer in 2018 with a solid team around him. In 2019 he had a receiving Corp that was garbage. He will be throwing to an immaculate route runner who creates seperation, a great deep threat, and a dynamic slot reciever. Tonyon is solid with great hands and deguara has massive upside.

I don't think he will be a bust.

Or is it all just one great practice and I'm reading way to much in.

[George Cumby]

I don't know why but I keep setting my level of expectation for love higher and higher. He was a bad mfer in 2018 with a solid team around him. In 2019 he had a receiving Corp that was garbage. He will be throwing to an immaculate route runner who creates seperation, a great deep threat, and a dynamic slot reciever. Tonyon is solid with great hands and deguara has massive upside.

I don't think he will be a bust.

Or is it all just one great practice and I'm reading way to much in.

I agree. I have no logical basis for this opinion.

[Fritz]

That was such a fun season with Majik. If I recall correctly, I went to the old Pontiac Silverdome (what a cavernous crappy stadium that was) with a couple of friends who were Detroit fans. Detroit was ahead at the end of the game but Majik drove the Pack all the way down the field at the end of the game, only to throw an interception in the end zone to dash the Packers' hopes. I believe it may have caromed off the hands of one of the lead-handed Packer receivers and into the waiting arms of a Lion defender. One of my friends who was, of course, drunk, kept yelling in the parking lot afterward, "Who cut the cheese, baby?"

[Bretsky]

Andre Ware anybody ? J/K

If you went back to the draft threads I liked and defended Jordan Love. I liked the player; I just have never embraced the pick at that time.

He might turn out to be the real deal

[Upnorth]

Took me a day or two to come around to the 2020 draft. I was to convinced wr was the problem to see it wasn't.

Why the fuck did we quit running in the nfccg... Crap

[Fritz]

I know. It's hard not to go back to that. The Flower had Williams and Dillon even after Jones went out. Why not run the football there in the fourth quarter, give Rick Wagner a chance to not get beat around the corner over and over again?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Why the fuck did we quit running in the nfccg... Crap

Cos, we couldn’t run worth a Forrest Gump and we fell down a rabbit hole. Jones choked big time. Williams played like Deshawn Wynn. Dillions was invisible. After Jones’ fumble loss to start the 2nd half, all running the rock would’ve done is milk the clock dry.

Down 8 via the air. In the red zone. In the clutch. Fucking LaFleur shoulda gone for it. Instead, he waved the white flag like his cheese-eating, French surrender monkey ancestors.

[George Cumby]

Took me a day or two to come around to the 2020 draft. I was to convinced wr was the problem to see it wasn't.

Why the fuck did we quit running in the nfccg... Crap

Exactly. Dillon up the gut, Dillon off tackle, Dillon up the gut then play-action.

[Spaulding]

Kinda old news as this was posted a few days ago but definitely encouraging regarding Love and his progression:

- https://247sports.com/Article/Jordan-Love-looked-exceptionally-good-workout-Green-Bay-Packers-Aaron-Rodgers-QB-Deshaun-Watson-Justin-Fields-NFL-167752854/

[RashanGary]

Kinda old news as this was posted a few days ago but definitely encouraging regarding Love and his progression:

- https://247sports.com/Article/Jordan-Love-looked-exceptionally-good-workout-Green-Bay-Packers-Aaron-Rodgers-QB-Deshaun-Watson-Justin-Fields-NFL-167752854/

The Rodgers side of the drama is tiring. But it's kinda cool to have such a high upside backup to talk about. Preseason is gonna be fun

[Fritz]

The Rodgers side of the drama is tiring. But it's kinda cool to have such a high upside backup to talk about. Preseason is gonna be fun

I am about sick of all the Rodgers drama, too. Reporters would like to paw through his feces to look for signs about what he's really going to do.

But before Tex agrees with that, I will add that that is exactly what Rodgers wants.

[Bretsky]

I'm at the point of being so sick of this Rodgers Crap.....If Love was ready I'm find trading Rodgers.
The fact that they won't entertain it tells me Love it not ready. The nightmare is Rodgers goes elsewhere and we suck.

[Zool]

What if we....hear me out now....stopped talking about it?

[Bretsky]

What if we....hear me out now....stopped talking about it?




Hmmm; then Packer news dies til training camp :)))

[wist43]

What if we....hear me out now....stopped talking about it?

I said that months ago... maybe you'll have better luck :huh:

[Zool]

Hmmm; then Packer news dies til training camp :)))

"news"

[Fritz]

"news"

"News"

- Which undrafted rookie has the best chance of sticking?

- Which undrafted or drafted rookie has the best "odds-are-against-me-because-I-have-had-a-tragic-life-but-I-have-worked-to-overcome-it-with-one-important-family-member's-help" story?

-Whose offseason training program or deliberate weight gain/weight loss is most likely to result in a suddenly improved player (last year it was Tyler Lancaster - how'd that work out?)

-Which mid-level or low-end veteran signing is suddenly going to reshape an entire position group?

-Any word on the Davante Adams or other star-whose-contract-is-coming-up negotiations?

News. Something manufactured by providers who rely on advertising revenue and need clicks.

[Jaire]

What if we....hear me out now....stopped talking about it?


Not until 2026, minimum