Monday is a Big Day

[texaspackerbacker]

10 AM Central, Aaron Rodgers will be on ESPN Sports Center, at least that's what I read.

[Bretsky]

10 AM Central, Aaron Rodgers will be on ESPN Sports Center, at least that's what I read.


That has been reported; it's kind of a tribute to Kenny Mayne and Rodgers apparently has developed an ok rapport with Mayne so he's expected to appear.

Some interesting tidbits from Wilde and Tauscher this past week

Wilde has finally broken his number and now feels the odds are 50.5 percent AROD returns. Wilde was at about 10% weeks ago. Tauscher is about 70%

Wilde has noted multiple times Rodgers biggest fan is MLF and indicated it's likely the coaches are not seeing eye to eye with Gutebag

How in the world is Jon Elway golfing with Rodgers not tampering ? I don't get it

Mike Greenberg commented that 10 years from now when we look back at this he thinks we'lll be talking about how a deal was worked out with Denver well ahead of June 1st. I don't buy into that but interesting anyways

[texaspackerbacker]

I read it was the final show for Kenny Mayne. Honestly, I've never watched Kenny Mayne and have barely heard of him.

Good to hear that Tauscher, who would seemingly be in better position to have accuracy on it, puts it at 70%, way higher than the media pukes.

It's possible Elway didn't initiate contact. If this is just a negotiating tool, then that would be a good way for Rodgers to add some smoke to the dumpster fire.

[bobblehead]

So if there is a deal in place and its done already (which I believe is the case if there is a deal at all. No way there isn't, but then it gets done after June 1st),....if that is the case, then ARod better go on TV and be a good soldier. If he puffs his chest and acts the fool hard to say what someone with Gutes ego might do. If you get what you want you act gracious and let the other side save face. If not, then Gutes might decide he has nothing to lose by not dealing him and letting him "retire".

[King Friday]

Rodgers is guaranteed to say some cryptic phrase that could be taken any one of twelve ways...so I'm not sure anything much will be settled tomorrow.

[King Friday]

No deal is done at this point. The Packers hold all the cards here if Rodgers wants to leave for another team.

[HarveyWallbangers]

That has been reported; it's kind of a tribute to Kenny Mayne and Rodgers apparently has developed an ok rapport with Mayne so he's expected to appear.

Some interesting tidbits from Wilde and Tauscher this past week

Wilde has finally broken his number and now feels the odds are 50.5 percent AROD returns. Wilde was at about 10% weeks ago. Tauscher is about 70%

Wilde has noted multiple times Rodgers biggest fan is MLF and indicated it's likely the coaches are not seeing eye to eye with Gutebag

How in the world is Jon Elway golfing with Rodgers not tampering ? I don't get it

Mike Greenberg commented that 10 years from now when we look back at this he thinks we'lll be talking about how a deal was worked out with Denver well ahead of June 1st. I don't buy into that but interesting anyways

All hearsay. You should quit listening to these guys. None of these guys are that in the know. Some of this is just plain false. The Rodgers-Elway golfing rumor has been debunked. It’s more likely that Hawk, Kuhn, and Jones are more plugged in. They all think he’ll play for the Packers this year.

[run pMc]

Honestly, I've been trying to avoid all this. Until Rodgers actually says something publicly to clear up the matter or doesn't show up for offseason/training camp, it's all hearsay and not worth paying too much attention to. Every day someone chimes in with an opinion, which suits Rodgers fine because he can sit back and watch everyone else talk, and leaves it open for him to say "I never said any of that. I want to retire a Packer blah blah blah it's all you media people."

[sharpe1027]

It's either true or Rodgers is taking advantage of the situation by remaining silent. One thirty second statement would end the whole thing. Either way, it's annoying. It's his decision to do so but he's responsible for it dragging out as much, actually more than, the media.

[texaspackerbacker]

When you're right, run pMc, you're right. And you really nailed it in the post above. sharpe, yeah, it's annoying, but none of us are in any position to complain, especially at this time of year.

[Vincenzo]

Wish we could catch this show streamed somewhere.

[call_me_ishmael]

Wish we could catch this show streamed somewhere.

The clips will be all over the web tonight no doubt.

[texaspackerbacker]

It is PM, not AM, supposed to start now, but the baseball game isn't over yet.

[Bretsky]

GAME ON

[Bretsky]

First mention of Aaron Rodgers

note's he's part owner of the Bucks :))

[Bretsky]

Rodgers; I'm just here so I won't get fined

I'm just here because it's your last show

This is the only reason I'm here

[Bretsky]

Payne asks if he can be the intermediary

Notes they may have to relive a scene of wedding crashers

[Bretsky]

Kenny Payne..Rodgers giving a tribute to Payne

Kenny...this isn't what they want Aaron

AROD; I don't give a shit.....lol...he's not saying a thing

[Bretsky]

Rodgers acknowledges he is not at the OTA and changes topic

[Bretsky]

Sometimes people forget what really makes an organization. History is important. But the people make an organization and the business. Sometimes that is forgotten. not by the organization, not by the building, but by the people.

KENNY

"ARE YOU DEMMANDING A TRADE"

Rodgers...it's never been about the draft pick. I love the fan base, coaching staff, and my teammates. But it's kind of about the philosopy...character....a lot was put into place last year...and the wrench was when I won the MVP......that was an odd comment

[Vincenzo]

Anything else?

[call_me_ishmael]

Wow, I am surprised he said anything about it. Now more than ever I don't think he's coming back.

In response to "are you demanding a trade"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E2NDxzDWQAE_hwC?format=png&name=small

So, yes.

[Joemailman]

Sometimes people forget what really makes an organization. History is important. But the people make an organization and the business. Sometimes that is forgotten. not by the organization, not by the building, but by the people.

KENNY

"ARE YOU DEMMANDING A TRADE"

Rodgers...it's never been about the draft pick. I love the fan base, coaching staff, and my teammates. But it's kind of about the philosopy...character....a lot was put into place last year...and the wrench was when I won the MVP......that was an odd comment

I interpret it as him saying the season he had gives him leverage, which is true. But I still don't know whether he wants a trade, or whether he wants a contract that assures his future with the Packera.

[call_me_ishmael]

Video, crappy audio:

https://twitter.com/MrPatMineo/status/1397037588389707776

[call_me_ishmael]

I interpret it as him saying the season he had gives him leverage, which is true. But I still don't know whether he wants a trade, or whether he wants a contract that assures his future with the Packera.

I think he is very clearly stating that he is not upset _with_ Jordan Love, but he viewed it as insulting and that the Packers had fundamentally moved on when they drafted Love. It's pretty hard to argue with that given that I did the analysis and it is completely unprecedented.

Three comments:

1. So much for this all being fake news, eh Tex?

2. Very clear ARod feels disrespected.

3. Didn't slam the door but I don't sense that is his style.

The stark reality is both sides know how this is gonna end at this point and just aren't saying. The Packers surely have made their thoughts clear on a contract. Rodgers has surely made his thoughts clear on that front as well. Now it's just a game of chicken if he's not signing.

[wist43]

I agree with Rodgers chief complaints. They are some of the complaints I've been talking about for quite some time.

The Packers front office is aloof and tone deaf. Not just in how they've approached roster building since TT took over, but in how they treated first Favre and now Rodgers. There's a business side that can't be avoided, but there are smoother ways to go about it.

I think also that the younger generations who now moving into positions of power and responsibility are inexperienced and unprepared to lead as men. Their arrogance and hubris are palpable. It makes things more difficult than they need to be.

[Bretsky]

I think he is very clearly stating that he is not upset _with_ Jordan Love, but he viewed it as insulting and that the Packers had fundamentally moved on when they drafted Love. It's pretty hard to argue with that given that I did the analysis and it is completely unprecedented.

Three comments:

1. So much for this all being fake news, eh Tex?

2. Very clear ARod feels disrespected.

3. Didn't slam the door but I don't sense that is his style.






FIVE CLAP POST

[Joemailman]

I still think there's a question as to whether as to whether he wants to force a trade, or whether he wants to make the Packers front office grovel and give him the contract he wants.


It might be a mistake to assume this is all about Gutekunst. Ball is the money guy and he reports to Murphy, not Gutekunst.

If Rodgers thinks organizations like Denver or Las Vegas are going to be more pro-player and less corporate than Green Bay, I think he is being naive.

[Freak Out]

So now more than ever they need to make a deal for a impact player on defense right?

[Joemailman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIMlrC-bUs0

[Bretsky]

I still think there's a question as to whether as to whether he wants to force a trade, or whether he wants to make the Packers front office grovel and give him the contract he wants.

It might be a mistake to assume this is all about Gutekunst. Ball is the money guy and he reports to Murphy, not Gutekunst.

.



TRUE

[texaspackerbacker]

Wow, I am surprised he said anything about it. Now more than ever I don't think he's coming back.

In response to "are you demanding a trade"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E2NDxzDWQAE_hwC?format=png&name=small

So, yes.

Does anybody see a "yes" there? I sure as hell don't.

Basically, the show predictably was a big nothing.

[sharpe1027]

Does anybody see a "yes" there? I sure as hell don't.

Basically, the show predictably was a big nothing.

Oooh...pick me, pick me! He seems to be saying plans were in place for him to be gone, but he played so well those plans were messed up. Based on the context, perhaps he had reason to think the Packers planned to trade him this year? He's also saying he can't stand the people in the organization.

He wants to be gone or he wants a better contract than he's getting offered. At this point, the contact negotiations may be at an impasse.. The main question is will the Packers play hardball and force him to stay.

[RashanGary]

I’m a little torn. Because if you sell out on being loyal to the players, you lose. Period. Some of the cut throat moves like Sitton, Lang, Nelson, Favre, Bulaga were the best moves the Packers made to stay competitive in a salary cap league.

I understand him not liking it though.

Like I’ve said before, and I think I was on this vein of thinking before Aaron spoke, if you’re going all in to do it the right way, then you don’t just stay loyal to Rodgers, but to all the great Packers. I think we could have one of the most interested, excited and big hearted fan bases in the NFL with constant warm 8-8 to 9-7 seasons.

It’s a cold business just like most businesses. I’ve grown to really hate cold, American culture. I just don’t know how you live in a win/succeed culture and just be the one guy who flips to loyalty and losing. It’s anti American. It’s counter culture. Rodgers is counter culture. I am. I like him.

I would love to see it but i understand the organization being loyal to success over people. Being loyal to people first is a quick recipe for not having a organization at all. Sad, but this is what we live in. The pressure to survive in the business world overtakes the heart. This is America.

But like I said, if the Packers went all in on loyalty, I think we’d become a cult favorite and an anti American oasis where people come first and it would be it’s own success.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers wants togetherness and loyalty in a business that has none. That’s what this is about. Love was the final slap in the face because it shows they’ll move on from you without blinking, just like with Favre and Nelson. Once he gets in camp he gets invested in the coaches and team but right now all he sees is the cold business side and he has no love for it.

On a side note, he looks frail. Very healthy but frail as a gladiator athlete . In the business world, Love was a great pick because Rodgers is aging and now frail for football.

[sharpe1027]

Rashan, I get what you're saying but I don't see it as that simple.

There will be decisions that put the needs of the TEAM ahead of the individual. Cold? I guess, but putting I'd be pissed if I was on a team that put individuals ahead of winning. That would be a slap in my face as a competitor.

[King Friday]

Rodgers wants togetherness and loyalty in a business that has none. That’s what this is about. Love was the final slap in the face because it shows they’ll move on from you without blinking, just like with Favre and Nelson. Once he gets in camp he gets invested in the coaches and team but right now all he sees is the cold business side and he has no love for it.

On a side note, he looks frail. Very healthy but frail as a gladiator athlete . In the business world, Love was a great pick because Rodgers is aging and now frail for football.

Rodgers is crazy if he thinks the Packers should dole out huge contracts to keep people around past their prime because people matter. Any NFL team that is run that way will be at the bottom of the food barrel. The salary cap forces hard decisions, and the front office has to be detached to some extent in order to make the best decisions. If the front office is best friends with the players, your team probably is horrible. Loyalty only goes so far in a league where everyone is out to get the most that they can.

The Packers are not trying to move on from Rodgers. That is where he is entirely wrong. I don't like the Love pick, but it wasn't made because the Packers wanted to jettison Rodgers. It was insurance, which is only reasonable. If Rodgers thinks his MVP season was something the team regrets, he's a moron.

[RashanGary]

Rashan, I get what you're saying but I don't see it as that simple.

There will be decisions that put the needs of the TEAM ahead of the individual. Cold? I guess, but putting I'd be pissed if I was on a team that put individuals ahead of winning. That would be a slap in my face as a competitor.

Rodgers views the team as the people and you seem to view it as the organization. I see Rodgers view point as more natural and human. I see yours as cultural conditioning.

[RashanGary]

Rashan, I get what you're saying but I don't see it as that simple.

There will be decisions that put the needs of the TEAM ahead of the individual. Cold? I guess, but putting I'd be pissed if I was on a team that put individuals ahead of winning. That would be a slap in my face as a competitor.

This is a topic that seems to make peoples heads explode. Rodgers is all about the team and the guys in the lockerroom. He’s one of those guys. But society can only view it in two lights; either it’s loyalty to the organization or selfishness. In the minds of most people it can’t fall into a different category, a different definition of people and team.

Rodgers is all about the people and team. He’s not being selfish. He’s wanting more depth from a cold business.

[RashanGary]

The organization is doing whatever they have to to win

Rodgers wants them to stay loyal to the guys in the lockerroom


This is Aaron Rodgers team ideals vs American winning culture. Rodgers will lose. These people are brainwashed.

[Joemailman]

The organization is doing whatever they have to to win

Rodgers wants them to stay loyal to the guys in the lockerroom


This is Aaron Rodgers team ideals vs American winning culture. Rodgers will lose. These people are brainwashed.

So does Rodgers think it was wrong for the Packers to draft him? Was that disloyalty to Brett Favre in his opinion? Or is Rodgers perhaps selective about which players loyalty is owed to?

[bobblehead]

Sometimes people forget what really makes an organization. History is important. But the people make an organization and the business. Sometimes that is forgotten. not by the organization, not by the building, but by the people.

KENNY

"ARE YOU DEMMANDING A TRADE"

Rodgers...it's never been about the draft pick. I love the fan base, coaching staff, and my teammates. But it's kind of about the philosopy...character....a lot was put into place last year...and the wrench was when I won the MVP......that was an odd comment

Not really. ARod is a chippy MFer. He felt slighted simply by them drafting Love. That comment tells me more than anything else he has said. He doesn't want to be anywhere but GB. All of this is sticking it to the upper echelon for daring to draft Love. He will be in camp. The only possible "wrench" now is if they are annoyed enough at him to actually trade him for a haul. Right now he is sticking it to them. The only wrench left is if they call his bluff and move on.

[RashanGary]

So does Rodgers think it was wrong for the Packers to draft him? Was that disloyalty to Brett Favre in his opinion? Or is Rodgers perhaps selective about which players loyalty is owed to?

I think it all ties together as a cold business and he doesn’t like the whole operation. But again, I’m still kind of pro Gute because I understand both sides. It’s not good vs evil. It’s people working within a system that promotes hard business decisions and hurt feelings. It’s good people and good people in a business environment.

The lack of loyalty has everything to do with making smart team decisions. But it doesn’t mean it feels good to be in it. So both sides make sense to me here.

[bobblehead]

I'll also add this. If the reported deals I have seen floated are real. 3 firsts and a player. Then I hope they deal him. I think that is simply too good to pass up on a 37 almost 38 year old at any position.

[RashanGary]

I’ve quit jobs and been homeless because I didn’t like, “business” so I understand Rodgers. But in hindsight, I realize there’s nothing anyone can do to alleviate the harshness of the way business operates.

Would it be nice to be in a tribe where we all work together and everything is shared and everything is for the good of the team?? Sure. It sure would. That’s in human nature to want togetherness that way. This society just doesn’t work that way so there’s always some sadness and pain.

If we want to make it, we have to be thick skinned. There’s a balance there too though. Skin so thick that you can’t feel a heartbeat is a waste of life too. Living in this society is the toughest kind of balancing act to find peace and prosperity.

[Spaulding]

It's the "entitled" generation I guess. He's certainly earned the right to try and control his future and doing what's best for him but his statements last night suggest the Packers "owe" it to him and the players on some level. Employers don't owe employees anything beyond a fair wage and safe working environment. When he signed his contract extension he should have already been aware of the Packers retrain from "all in mentality." Players are paid incredibly well and almost always shop their services to the highest bidder which is what free agency and the open market is all about. Why shouldn't a team insulate itself from possibly declining play and/or injuries?

I still think the Love pick was a major mistake and at least a year (now in hindsight likely three) too early though.

[Joemailman]

Rodgers used the word "people" 14 times. I see as the start of a campaign to get Up With People chosen for the Super Bowl Halftime Show.

[call_me_ishmael]

Not really. ARod is a chippy MFer. He felt slighted simply by them drafting Love. That comment tells me more than anything else he has said. He doesn't want to be anywhere but GB. All of this is sticking it to the upper echelon for daring to draft Love. He will be in camp. The only possible "wrench" now is if they are annoyed enough at him to actually trade him for a haul. Right now he is sticking it to them. The only wrench left is if they call his bluff and move on.

Dunno about that one. I don't think he's coming to camp without a deal, and it sounds like Packers won't guarantee him a deal beyond this next year, at least that's what Charles Robinson and Mike Silver reported.

Rodgers isn't going to outright burn the bridge in case he doesn't get what he wants and tank his marketability.

[call_me_ishmael]

So does Rodgers think it was wrong for the Packers to draft him? Was that disloyalty to Brett Favre in his opinion? Or is Rodgers perhaps selective about which players loyalty is owed to?

I think it's a different situation, though.

For one Favre was talking about retirement, etc. Rodgers has never done that and said he intends to play to 40 at a minimum.

I do agree the rest of the situation is similar beyond the whole trading up thing.

I made a post that looked at other upper echelon QBs and aside from Favre and Rodgers, I could not find a single circumstance of a team using a R1 draft pick on a QB. Even using a 2 was extremely rare.


Rodgers can simultaneously love the person (Jordan Love) but hate that management spent valuable resources on replacing Rodgers instead of building the best possible team around him. Not mutually exclusive ideas

https://twitter.com/joethomas73/status/1397177720887521282
I agree Joe Thomas, I agree.

Personally - I tihnk Rodgers is being opportunistic and if Kenny Mayne's last show was not the first day of OTAs, no way would he be on it.

[RashanGary]

It's the "entitled" generation I guess. He's certainly earned the right to try and control his future and doing what's best for him but his statements last night suggest the Packers "owe" it to him and the players on some level. Employers don't owe employees anything beyond a fair wage and safe working environment. When he signed his contract extension he should have already been aware of the Packers retrain from "all in mentality." Players are paid incredibly well and almost always shop their services to the highest bidder which is what free agency and the open market is all about. Why shouldn't a team insulate itself from possibly declining play and/or injuries?

I still think the Love pick was a major mistake and at least a year (now in hindsight likely three) too early though.

This is public sentiment to a T. For the very most part people accept business without a stray thought to the possibility that it’s cold to be about hard business in a “people” world.

Rodgers will lose this battle. He will come and play or he will retire and lose a lot of money. This is the black and white reality. And very few people will understand where he’s coming from and quite a lot of people will call him a brat.

Despite common beliefs of the society I live, I’m happy to have a minority opinion that business is sort of crap and it’s a sad environment.

[George Cumby]

I'll also add this. If the reported deals I have seen floated are real. 3 firsts and a player. Then I hope they deal him. I think that is simply too good to pass up on a 37 almost 38 year old at any position.

Agreed. A deal like that could set them up, talent-wise for 5-10 years.

[sharpe1027]

Rodgers views the team as the people and you seem to view it as the organization. I see Rodgers view point as more natural and human. I see yours as cultural conditioning.

No. I view all organizations as groups of people. They're indistinguishable. You seem to think otherwise?

[RashanGary]

No. I view all organizations as groups of people. They're indistinguishable. You seem to think otherwise?

At work I connect directly to the people I work with. The things that come down from above aren’t as personal and don’t have the depth of actual in person relationships. So I definitely understand when Rodgers talks directly about teammates and feels separate from the higher up business.

But you connecting to the “organization” and feeling connected like it’s a team, there’s nothing wrong with that. Some people can feel connected with that kind of indirect relationship. I just don’t.

[RashanGary]

I would say Rodgers felt closer to Sitton, Lang and Nelson than he did to gutebag. Even whitewater Jesus probably. I suspect the team he connects to is more the people he works with than the organization above him. I relate to Rodgers that way. He’ll be back tho. He’s got no other real options. Sometimes I would do a spite call when I was fed up with management and let them have a night without me. I usually came back though.

[Joemailman]

Adrian Amos being asked a lot of Rodgers questions at PC. Gotta be frustrating. Aaron Jones up next.

[texaspackerbacker]

Rodgers used the word "people" 14 times. I see as the start of a campaign to get Up With People chosen for the Super Bowl Halftime Show.

He used that term "about people", citing players throughout several great eras of Packer success. To me, that sounds kinda like a slap in the face to the guy who has been seemingly his biggest supporter in this mess, LaFleur - saying the team is great primarily because of the players, which of course means primarily Rodgers himself. That supports the pomposity labels given to him, but it's pretty hard to argue it ain't true. I think his point was that Gutekunst and others didn't see it that way and planned to move on from Rodgers - and he meant to show them just how huge a mistake that was. It seems like he's having a helluva lot of fun making those people who thought that way squirm.

I think those in the know - the former players like Hawk, Kuhn, etc. - know this. This will all be over soon with a strong chance the conclusion is a long term extension for Rodgers. The only way that doesn't happen is if Gutekunst gets all pissy and digs in against it. And if that happens, we need to get rid of Gutekunst and give him the Dan Devine treatment.

[texaspackerbacker]

As for being "set up for 5-10 years" if we made a killing of a trade for Rodgers, I tend to think it would be more like 5-10 years of doom and gloom even with all those draft picks, etc. Maybe this would turn out like the Bucks being set up for really about 20 years when they traded Alcindor/Kareem, but somehow I don't think we'd be that lucky. The team minus Rodgers even plus a large infusion of young talent would be mediocre at best - IMO.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I like you, RG, but this latest take is utter nonsense.

1) If the NFL was like American culture, it would be more like European soccer. There would be no salary cap and the big clubs would compete with each other to buy the best players.
2) The salary cap necessitates hard decisions. You can't keep everybody, so you have to choose who you bring back. The Packers are often criticized because they are more loyal to their own players than most teams. Why don't the Packers sign FAs? They do. Their own.
3) If you praised the Packers for signing Big Z, Amos, etc. at the expense of keeping the likes of Jordy Nelson, then you have no leg to stand on.

[run pMc]

Oooh...pick me, pick me! He seems to be saying plans were in place for him to be gone, but he played so well those plans were messed up. Based on the context, perhaps he had reason to think the Packers planned to trade him this year? He's also saying he can't stand the people in the organization.

He wants to be gone or he wants a better contract than he's getting offered. At this point, the contact negotiations may be at an impasse.. The main question is will the Packers play hardball and force him to stay.

100% Agree.
I think they will play hardball with him and eventually have some kind of under the table gentlemen's agreement that they deal him after the season. Maybe it leaks out and turns into a Rodgers-farewell tour, but I doubt it.
A trade probably nets them lots of cap space and multiple high draft picks that they absolutely need to nail. Trading a HOF franchise QB is highwire daredevil stuff; you better get it right.
Trading him if he doesn't report to camp isn't ideal but possible; better to trade him after the season -- Jordan Love probably needs another year, and the future picks or cap space don't help you in Week 1.

Would be kind of funny to see him play for Gruden in LV... that lovefest would last about a week, two tops.

As for people vs. organization: The people make the culture, the organization has goals. Gute's job is to gather as talented a roster as possible for the coaches to work into a winning team. If the team doesn't win, the coaches -- and eventually, the GM -- go. He's going to do what it takes to win games and keep his job.
Saddling your roster with aging overpriced players isn't the best way to do that. What things are they not "doing the right way"? He's talking in a very vague, generic sense and there's nothing specific behind it. "It's the people!" is nice and bland, and by all accounts the locker room chemistry was great last year... so he doesn't like management? He's in a club of millions in the country.

I suspect Rodgers isn't a fan of the three silo arrangement, and seems to have strong opinions on Murphy and Gute (and likely Ball). I also suspect these football guys aren't great communicators, which is a little weird. You'd think someone in that building would know how to do that, and you'd especially think after the Favre mess they'd have learned the benefits of keeping close contact with your QB. Maybe the way the Favre drama ended created hubris with Packers' FO, but either way there were lessons they should have taken to heart.

[RashanGary]

Adrian Amos being asked a lot of Rodgers questions at PC. Gotta be frustrating. Aaron Jones up next.

Amos said one thing that was revealing. He said everyone wants to get paid what they’re worth in connection with Rodgers.


Rodgers has 3 problems when it comes to contract and the biggest two have nothing to do with Jordan Love

Rodgers #1 problem - he's almost 40
Rodgers #2 problem - he's under a fair contract that gets him to age 40
Rodgers #3 problem - Jordan Love will be 25 years old, have 4 invaluable years of experience behind the goat, and will be entering the prime of his career when Rodgers contract runs out at 40 years old


Rodgers wants one more hot strike of the iron before he fades off into the sunset. But the cards aren't aligning. In all probability, he’ll be back playing out his current deal or get a slight bump. It's unlikely the Packers give up on Jordan Love or start betting all their marbles on Rodgers after 40. Unfortunately a QB they “loved” slipped to striking distance a year ago and the Packers probably feel like an over 40 QB is risky.

My prediction Rodgers plays another year on his same deal.

[RashanGary]

The other thing, I don't think anyone on. the team is rooting for Rodgers to get a blockbuster deal. He's made and makes more than any football player should ever make. They all know there is only so much pie to go around.

Public sentiment will never be in Rodgers favor

People understand what Gute is trying to do



Rodgers has basically no leverage other than missing training camp. If he does that he risks injury and losing a lot of money. Rodgers really has to hurt himself to try to get what he wants (money) and no one is gonna he on his side. A young black QB whose dad committed suicide, and a great guy in the wings. No one will see 12 as a victim. He's had it good and has it good.

He will not get what he wants. Bet.

[RashanGary]

I like you, RG, but this latest take is utter nonsense.

1) If the NFL was like American culture, it would be more like European soccer. There would be no salary cap and the big clubs would compete with each other to buy the best players.
2) The salary cap necessitates hard decisions. You can't keep everybody, so you have to choose who you bring back. The Packers are often criticized because they are more loyal to their own players than most teams. Why don't the Packers sign FAs? They do. Their own.
3) If you praised the Packers for signing Big Z, Amos, etc. at the expense of keeping the likes of Jordy Nelson, then you have no leg to stand on.

You're right. I'm just paraphrasing 12’s culture gripe as I see it. Its mostly money though. He's just painting it as something else for public sentiment.

[sharpe1027]

At work I connect directly to the people I work with. The things that come down from above aren’t as personal and don’t have the depth of actual in person relationships. So I definitely understand when Rodgers talks directly about teammates and feels separate from the higher up business.

But you connecting to the “organization” and feeling connected like it’s a team, there’s nothing wrong with that. Some people can feel connected with that kind of indirect relationship. I just don’t.

I'm not connecting those two things. I'm saying every decision has consequences and those decisions generally effect individuals differently. You make a move based on a personal relationship and you are doing a disservice to others. It's not about being cold, it's about making a decision for the greater goal. A decision might negatively impact a single individual, but if successful, it will benefit others. That's not cold, it's common sense.

[call_me_ishmael]

I think those in the know - the former players like Hawk, Kuhn, etc. - know this. This will all be over soon with a strong chance the conclusion is a long term extension for Rodgers. The only way that doesn't happen is if Gutekunst gets all pissy and digs in against it. And if that happens, we need to get rid of Gutekunst and give him the Dan Devine treatment.

I do wonder how aligned Murphy and Gooter are on all of tihs. I would think they're in lock step. If the rumors are true they only offered Aaron 2021 guaranteed in redoing his contract - which who knows if that is true or not - than IMO that is a big mistake and very clear they're planning on turning to JLove.

When has an MVP not had their contract torn up? I don't follow this closely but I would guess not very frequently.

[SudsMcBucky]

JMHO, but it seems like Aaron is way too stubborn to come back under his contract. I don't see that EVER happening. I think he'd cut off his nose to spite his face and would rather not get paid $37 or so million this year. He's either going to get a big new contract, not play at all, or get traded. Personally, I'd almost rather see the Pack not trade him and let ARod sit.

[texaspackerbacker]

Amos said one thing that was revealing. He said everyone wants to get paid what they’re worth in connection with Rodgers.


Rodgers has 3 problems when it comes to contract and the biggest two have nothing to do with Jordan Love

Rodgers #1 problem - he's almost 40
Rodgers #2 problem - he's under a fair contract that gets him to age 40
Rodgers #3 problem - Jordan Love will be 25 years old, have 4 invaluable years of experience behind the goat, and will be entering the prime of his career when Rodgers contract runs out at 40 years old


Rodgers wants one more hot strike of the iron before he fades off into the sunset. But the cards aren't aligning. In all probability, he’ll be back playing out his current deal or get a slight bump. It's unlikely the Packers give up on Jordan Love or start betting all their marbles on Rodgers after 40. Unfortunately a QB they “loved” slipped to striking distance a year ago and the Packers probably feel like an over 40 QB is risky.

My prediction Rodgers plays another year on his same deal.

The way you picture it isn't too bad. I'd go along with it, and probably Rodgers would too. Having Rodgers until age 40 would be fine. That would be December 2023. It would take a one year extension to get to that. His current contract, as so many have stated, for better or worse, I'd say much worse, makes it feasible for the team to dump him after 2021, though.

I'd like to extend Rodgers way past 40, but what you're saying would be an adequate compromise IMO assuming those years until age 40 get guaranteed.

[texaspackerbacker]

The other thing, I don't think anyone on. the team is rooting for Rodgers to get a blockbuster deal. He's made and makes more than any football player should ever make. They all know there is only so much pie to go around.

Public sentiment will never be in Rodgers favor

People understand what Gute is trying to do



Rodgers has basically no leverage other than missing training camp. If he does that he risks injury and losing a lot of money. Rodgers really has to hurt himself to try to get what he wants (money) and no one is gonna he on his side. A young black QB whose dad committed suicide, and a great guy in the wings. No one will see 12 as a victim. He's had it good and has it good.

He will not get what he wants. Bet.

When you're right, you're right, but you're way off here. Public sentiment greatly favors Rodgers. Why? because he has been the primary one responsible for giving us so much pleasure for so long. And while people understand what Gutekunst seemed to be doing, they/we hated it.

I bet he already has gotten what he wants offered. He's just making 'em squirm right now.

Rodgers' leverage is that he could retire and have a helluva lot of options, leaving the team in a world of shit. I don't think he will do that, but he could.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers is under contract till 2023. He has 3 years left on his current deal and will be 40 before it's done

[texaspackerbacker]

Are you sure it's 3, through the '21 season? If so, fine. Just make it guaranteed, and it should be an adequate compromise.

[sharpe1027]

When you're right, you're right, but you're way off here. Public sentiment greatly favors Rodgers. Why? because he has been the primary one responsible for giving us so much pleasure for so long. And while people understand what Gutekunst seemed to be doing, they/we hated it.

I bet he already has gotten what he wants offered. He's just making 'em squirm right now.

Rodgers' leverage is that he could retire and have a helluva lot of options, leaving the team in a world of shit. I don't think he will do that, but he could.

Not sure what public you're referring to, but more of the Packers fans I spoke to think Rodgers is in the wrong.

[Bretsky]

People understand what Gute is trying to do

.



Understand, perhaps...I agree they "understand" what he's trying to to....but agree....debateble.......there is a ton who think Gute was a f'ckin moron not for drafting a QB a couple years too early.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Understand, perhaps...I agree they "understand" what he's trying to to....but agree....debateble.......there is a ton who think Gute was a f'ckin moron not for drafting a QB a couple years too early.

What if Love turns out to be good (like Rodgers was)? Is it still stupid?

[wist43]

What if Love turns out to be good (like Rodgers was)? Is it still stupid?

Yes, still stupid, b/c you're continuing to build, and there will always be opportunities to acquire a QB in the future... QB is a total crapshoot. So roll the dice in a few years, and build for championships now.

I can't fathom how you guys can't wrap your heads around this.

[sharpe1027]

Yes, still stupid, b/c you're continuing to build, and there will always be opportunities to acquire a QB in the future... QB is a total crapshoot. So roll the dice in a few years, and build for championships now.

I can't fathom how you guys can't wrap your heads around this.

It's one draft pick.

[call_me_ishmael]

What if Love turns out to be good (like Rodgers was)? Is it still stupid?

If he turns out to be a HOFer, then it isn’t stupid obviously but are you willing to play the odds on that one? I am not. That said, the butterfly effect is real and is ARod even having this convo without the love pick? Does he play at a top level? Somehow I doubt it.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Yes, still stupid, b/c you're continuing to build, and there will always be opportunities to acquire a QB in the future... QB is a total crapshoot. So roll the dice in a few years, and build for championships now.

I can't fathom how you guys can't wrap your heads around this.

So, you would have passed on Aaron Rodgers in 2015 then. Dumb!

[HarveyWallbangers]

If he turns out to be a HOFer, then it isn’t stupid obviously but are you willing to play the odds on that one? I am not. That said, the butterfly effect is real and is ARod even having this convo without the love pick? Does he play at a top level? Somehow I doubt it.

He doesn't have to turn out to be a HOFer. That's setting the bar too high. Not many players are Hall of Famers. I'd say that if you can get a QB that you can win a Super Bowl with at #25, that would make it an excellent pick. Teams drafting as low as the Packers don't get many chances at good QB prospects. It will be a bad pick if Love busts. One bad pick. Half of late first round picks don't even make a Pro Bowl. Let's not pretend drafting another position would have guaranteed a great player late in the first round.

Wist, once again, makes an argument where the Packers front office can't win. If Love busts, bad pick. If Love is good, still a bad pick. Just dumb! I think most people are reasonable enough to at least admit if Love is Pro Bowl caliber good, then the Packers made a great pick at the game's most important position.

[MadScientist]

From the way that interview comes across, it doesn't sound like Rodgers has just demanded to be traded, and I don't think he is directly asking for a big pile of money (beyond the staggering amounts he's getting paid anyway). It's more that, after more than a decade of being the face of the franchise, he doesn't like the organization treating him like just some trained monkey. He knows that the logical time for the Packers to see what they have in Love is starting next season, but after last year that would be a slap in the face to Rodgers. So Rodgers wants things structured so they can't just dump him or trade him where they want. And if the Packers won't do that, then he wants out.

[HarveyWallbangers]

From the way that interview comes across, it doesn't sound like Rodgers has just demanded to be traded, and I don't think he is directly asking for a big pile of money (beyond the staggering amounts he's getting paid anyway). It's more that, after more than a decade of being the face of the franchise, he doesn't like the organization treating him like just some trained monkey. He knows that the logical time for the Packers to see what they have in Love is starting next season, but after last year that would be a slap in the face to Rodgers. So Rodgers wants things structured so they can't just dump him or trade him where they want. And if the Packers won't do that, then he wants out.

Good recap, and I get it. It all depends on how many years he wants guaranteed. Tom Brady has played on a 1 or 2 year contract for the last 6 years. Rodgers was ordinary in 2018 and 2019. He's been injury prone. He turns 38 this year. Like I've said before, Rodgers should be guaranteed at least 2 more years in Green Bay. He earned that with his MVP performance. It's likely the Packers have offered that. I suspect Rodgers wants more, but we don't know. If he's looking for more, I have to side with Gutebag.

[th87]

I'll also add this. If the reported deals I have seen floated are real. 3 firsts and a player. Then I hope they deal him. I think that is simply too good to pass up on a 37 almost 38 year old at any position.

You can't punt on a legit SB opportunity to get the opportunity to select the next Datone Jones, Nick Perry, and Kevin King.

[th87]

This is public sentiment to a T. For the very most part people accept business without a stray thought to the possibility that it’s cold to be about hard business in a “people” world.

Rodgers will lose this battle. He will come and play or he will retire and lose a lot of money. This is the black and white reality. And very few people will understand where he’s coming from and quite a lot of people will call him a brat.

Despite common beliefs of the society I live, I’m happy to have a minority opinion that business is sort of crap and it’s a sad environment.

You've been spot on on this topic, I have to say.

[th87]

Yes, still stupid, b/c you're continuing to build, and there will always be opportunities to acquire a QB in the future... QB is a total crapshoot. So roll the dice in a few years, and build for championships now.

I can't fathom how you guys can't wrap your heads around this.

Another example of my FYI foes being spot on here.

[th87]

So, you would have passed on Aaron Rodgers in 2015 then. Dumb!

So they rolled whatever is a good roll in craps. To count on this happening again is silliness:

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

QBs drafted outside the top 10 overwhelmingly don't pan out.

[texaspackerbacker]

Another example of my FYI foes being spot on here.

Or maybe it's just that you've been mostly right here and damn near 100% wrong there hahahahahaha.

[HarveyWallbangers]

So they rolled whatever is a good roll in craps. To count on this happening again is silliness:

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb

QBs drafted outside the top 10 overwhelmingly don't pan out.

What if he hits? It's not like they would have blown a top 10 pick on him. Most picks late in the first round don't even make a Pro Bowl. But, again, what if he hits? Ron Wolf and scouts under the Wolf tree (Thompson, McKenzie, Dorsey, Schneider) have done well drafting QBs. Favre (technically, not a draft pick, but he fits here), Brunell, Hasselbeck, Aaron Brooks, Rodgers, Wilson, Derek Carr, Mahomes, maybe Baker Mayfield.

[call_me_ishmael]

What if he hits? It's not like they would have blown a top 10 pick on him. Most picks late in the first round don't even make a Pro Bowl. But, again, what if he hits? Ron Wolf and scouts under the Wolf tree (Thompson, McKenzie, Dorsey, Schneider) have done well drafting QBs. Favre (technically, not a draft pick, but he fits here), Brunell, Hasselbeck, Aaron Brooks, Rodgers, Wilson, Derek Carr, Mahomes, maybe Baker Mayfield.

He statistically is very unlikely to, though. I agree if he is a 8x pro bowler this was a good move. If he is Jared Goff I think it was a bad move. Either way, it clearly pissed Aaron off and lit a fire under him to play his ass off last year.

[Upnorth]

He statistically is very unlikely to, though. I agree if he is a 8x pro bowler this was a good move. If he is Jared Goff I think it was a bad move. Either way, it clearly pissed Aaron off and lit a fire under him to play his ass off last year.

I hate the whole drafting love pissing arod of so he shows up.ballin out and gets the MVP. If 37 million and a great scheme and a great run game and a great set of pass catchers isn't enough motivation to play your best you have big issues.
If that is why he was great last year then he needs therapy.

I pray it is a media manufactured story for his sake.

[HarveyWallbangers]

He statistically is very unlikely to, though. I agree if he is a 8x pro bowler this was a good move. If he is Jared Goff I think it was a bad move. Either way, it clearly pissed Aaron off and lit a fire under him to play his ass off last year.

An 8x Pro Bowler is pretty much a Hall of Famer. That bar is too high. You likely won't get that with the #1 overall pick. Getting a guy like Goff that low would be a good pick. He'd give you a good backup to an injury prone, 37-year-old QB. He's obviously somebody that is capable enough to get you to a Super Bowl in a MLF style offense. I'd hope for a little better, but I think Goff caliber is probably a good pick.

[King Friday]

It's one draft pick.

Two... They traded up.

[th87]

What if he hits? It's not like they would have blown a top 10 pick on him. Most picks late in the first round don't even make a Pro Bowl. But, again, what if he hits? Ron Wolf and scouts under the Wolf tree (Thompson, McKenzie, Dorsey, Schneider) have done well drafting QBs. Favre (technically, not a draft pick, but he fits here), Brunell, Hasselbeck, Aaron Brooks, Rodgers, Wilson, Derek Carr, Mahomes, maybe Baker Mayfield.

Two picks plus punting on near-term SB runs for a ~6% chance he even becomes Goff.

Yes, what if he hits, but these aren't smart odds.

[th87]

What if he hits? It's not like they would have blown a top 10 pick on him. Most picks late in the first round don't even make a Pro Bowl. But, again, what if he hits? Ron Wolf and scouts under the Wolf tree (Thompson, McKenzie, Dorsey, Schneider) have done well drafting QBs. Favre (technically, not a draft pick, but he fits here), Brunell, Hasselbeck, Aaron Brooks, Rodgers, Wilson, Derek Carr, Mahomes, maybe Baker Mayfield.

In the last 10 years, franchise QBs picked in the bottom half of the first round or lower: Wilson, Cousins (debatable), Prescott, Jackson. That's 4 out of like 80 total QBs picked.

This is not worth imploding legit SB chances for.

[RashanGary]

In the last 10 years, franchise QBs picked in the bottom half of the first round or lower: Wilson, Cousins (debatable), Prescott, Jackson. That's 4 out of like 80 total QBs picked.

This is not worth imploding legit SB chances for.

Hey man, You say 3 firsts for Rodgers is like selling a super bowl shot for a chance at Sherrod, Harrell and Datone Jones, but then in the next breath, 1 1st and a 4th for Love is imploding super bowl chances. Can it really be both??

As far as Love goes, I don't think they would have picked him if they didn't think he was a good player. I don't think 6% is the correct odds.

[RashanGary]

I think the wolf GM tree does better than league average. They know something about QB play. It at least doubles the Love odds over league average.

Just like the Packers do better than average on OL or top 3 round receivers. Some GMs are better than others.

[th87]

Hey man, You say 3 firsts for Rodgers is like selling a super bowl shot for a chance at Sherrod, Harrell and Datone Jones, but then in the next breath, 1 1st and a 4th for Love is imploding super bowl chances. Can it really be both??

As far as Love goes, I don't think they would have picked him if they didn't think he was a good player. I don't think 6% is the correct odds.

Nah, I'm saying trading Rodgers now (or soon) in anticipation of Love being good is imploding SB chances. Drafting him was somewhat dumb, but survivable. Even if you use the pick on a Datone Jones, he would contribute more than Love did in 2020.

[th87]

I think the wolf GM tree does better than league average. They know something about QB play. It at least doubles the Love odds over league average.

Just like the Packers do better than average on OL or top 3 round receivers. Some GMs are better than others.

Fair point. We'll see.

[RashanGary]

Fair point. We'll see.

Yeah. I'm far from having my mind made up on that pick. I'm almost always hopeful, but I'm let down a lot too.

[call_me_ishmael]

Hey man, You say 3 firsts for Rodgers is like selling a super bowl shot for a chance at Sherrod, Harrell and Datone Jones, but then in the next breath, 1 1st and a 4th for Love is imploding super bowl chances. Can it really be both??

As far as Love goes, I don't think they would have picked him if they didn't think he was a good player. I don't think 6% is the correct odds.

The question is what is successful? Do I think he'll be Matt Stafford or Matt Ryan or a top 8ish QB? I think the odds are not very good of that, maybe 20%. I would strongly bet against.

As to your claim the Packers are better with QBs, I would push back and say where is there any evidence of that? Yes, they nailed Favre and Rodgers. That's two guys in 30 years though. I don't think that is really a big enough sample size. Lots of Packers QB draft picks have been ass and turned over very quickly - see Brian Brohm, UCLA guy, Notre Dame guy, etc.

[Freak Out]

What? you short sighted youngster.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The question is what is successful? Do I think he'll be Matt Stafford or Matt Ryan or a top 8ish QB? I think the odds are not very good of that, maybe 20%. I would strongly bet against.

As to your claim the Packers are better with QBs, I would push back and say where is there any evidence of that? Yes, they nailed Favre and Rodgers. That's two guys in 30 years though. I don't think that is really a big enough sample size. Lots of Packers QB draft picks have been ass and turned over very quickly - see Brian Brohm, UCLA guy, Notre Dame guy, etc.

Matt Hasselbeck made 3 Pro Bowls as a 6th round pick. Mark Brunell made 3 Pro Bowls as a 5th round pick. Aaron Brooks is in the Saints Hall of Fame as a 4th round pick. Patrick Mahomes is a stud. Derek Carr has made 3 Pro Bowl as a 2nd round pick. Russell Wilson is a Hall of Famer as a 3rd round pick. Baker Mayfield is solid, but just okay for where he was drafted. At least, he's not Josh Rosen. These were QBs drafted by Wolf or execs that worked under him (McKenzie, Dorsey, and Schneider). Gutebag started under Wolf too. They missed on Brohm, but in the same draft hit on a long-time solid backup in Matt Flynn in the 7th round.

I'm kind of leaning towards a trade with the Raiders. They have a couple of younger guys that I'd be interested and I think the draft picks would be higher than the Broncos. I'm actually intrigued by Derek Carr. With a good roster I think you could win a Super Bowl with him. His contract is about perfect for our situation. He has two years left at less than $20M/year, and they could cut him next year (if Love shows he's ready) without any dead cap money eaten. Carr has had some good, Pro Bowl caliber years, but I think he could really take off getting out of Las Vegas--much like Ryan Tannehill with the Titans.

[sharpe1027]

Someone arguing it's really hard to find a QB, the most important position on the field, is making a great argument for why you draft Love if you believe the 2018 version is the real deal.

[th87]

Someone arguing it's really hard to find a QB, the most important position on the field, is making a great argument for why you draft Love if you believe the 2018 version is the real deal.

Nigh impossible outside of the top 10.

Most (possibly all) busts were studs in college.

[sharpe1027]

Nigh impossible outside of the top 10.

Most (possibly all) busts were studs in college.

Exactly why you have to take a shot when you think a top 10 dropped in your lap. Aaron Rodgers sound familiar?

[th87]

Matt Hasselbeck made 3 Pro Bowls as a 6th round pick. Mark Brunell made 3 Pro Bowls as a 5th round pick. Aaron Brooks is in the Saints Hall of Fame as a 4th round pick. Patrick Mahomes is a stud. Derek Carr has made 3 Pro Bowl as a 2nd round pick. Russell Wilson is a Hall of Famer as a 3rd round pick. Baker Mayfield is solid, but just okay for where he was drafted. At least, he's not Josh Rosen. These were QBs drafted by Wolf or execs that worked under him (McKenzie, Dorsey, and Schneider). Gutebag started under Wolf too. They missed on Brohm, but in the same draft hit on a long-time solid backup in Matt Flynn in the 7th round.

I'm kind of leaning towards a trade with the Raiders. They have a couple of younger guys that I'd be interested and I think the draft picks would be higher than the Broncos. I'm actually intrigued by Derek Carr. With a good roster I think you could win a Super Bowl with him. His contract is about perfect for our situation. He has two years left at less than $20M/year, and they could cut him next year (if Love shows he's ready) without any dead cap money eaten. Carr has had some good, Pro Bowl caliber years, but I think he could really take off getting out of Las Vegas--much like Ryan Tannehill with the Titans.

This is a compelling point. But you have QB busts in Seattle under Thompson, and Gute really liked Kizer, and TT liked Hundley.

[HarveyWallbangers]

This is a compelling point. But you have QB busts in Seattle under Thompson, and Gute really liked Kizer, and TT liked Hundley.

Which QB busts in Seattle? We don't know how much Gute liked Kizer to be honest. We traded a bag of peanuts to kick the tires there (Randall had worn out his welcome here, and had proven to be a jag--and he wasn't a guy Gutebag drafted). Hundley was a 5th round pick, so TT apparently didn't like him that much.

[Jaire]

Finally watched the interview.

Rodgers is just pushing for a long term contract again where he can't be traded. Pretty clear to me that Gute has to go. He's much more replacable than Rodgers and I'm not happy with his last 2 drafts. The FO needs an overall. Brandon is right: they are clueless and arrogant.

[Fritz]

Finally watched the interview.

Rodgers is just pushing for a long term contract again where he can't be traded. Pretty clear to me that Gute has to go. He's much more replacable than Rodgers and I'm not happy with his last 2 drafts. The FO needs an overall. Brandon is right: they are clueless and arrogant.

They may be arrogant - they are apparently operating as if it's still 1997 - the front office makes decisions and the players play. But they are not "clueless."

The question is whether the front office - Murphy and Gutekunst - is willing to eat a little humble pie and learn something from all this, and then changing their behaviors going forward, or whether they're going to go all authoritarian.

[SudsMcBucky]

Finally watched the interview.

Rodgers is just pushing for a long term contract again where he can't be traded. Pretty clear to me that Gute has to go. He's much more replacable than Rodgers and I'm not happy with his last 2 drafts. The FO needs an overall. Brandon is right: they are clueless and arrogant.

I agree last year's draft was a shit show, but I really liked what he did this year. I think you're going to be surprised by how good Stokes will be.

[Fritz]

Well, I hope you are correct.

As for the bigger issue, I have been saying that Gutekunst will need to publicly declare that Rodgers is going to be listened to, and that Rodgers is THE guy for at least the next two or three years (guaranteed in the form of a new contract).

Is that the best move for keeping Rodgers and taking a shot this year? Yes.

Is it the best move for the organization as a whole? I'm not sure. I do think the Packers have not kept up with the times, and it's ridiculous to expect someone of Rodgers's stature and abilities and passive-aggressive hostile nature to just shut up and play. You can't operate like you're Ron Wolf in 1995 or even Ted Thompson in 2008. On the other hand, if you cave in to Rodgers, you're putting every egg in the 2021 and 2022 baskets, knowing that after that the weight of the salries they've accumulated will cause the whole thing to collapse, and you will have kowtowed completely to one player - swinging from one extreme to the opposite. I'm not sure that's the best move for the long-term health of the franchise.

[King Friday]

Rodgers will be done in Green Bay in a few years regardless of anything. The Packers will still be in Green Bay for decades to come. As the smallest TV market in the NFL (by a lot) they do have to run their business a little different from most other teams. That is a point that Rodgers has failed to acknowledge. I hear his point of view...but had anyone heard the true viewpoint from the front office? There certainly could be some legitimate points of view on their side that would be a very powerful rebuke to Rodgers' "it's about the people" mantra.

That is not to say the front office doesn't have plenty of blame in this...just that most items in the media are one sided toward Rodgers because that is what will get the clicks. Other teams fans don't give a crap about what the Packers front office has to say. They just want to find out how their team can get Rodgers.

[wist43]

Gute has been better than Thompson IMO, but as I said in another post - he's tone deaf. There's more to the job than just making picks and signing FA's. Those are the biggest aspects of the job, but player and public relations are just as important.

I think Gute is beginning to get a reputation around the league that he is an arrogant, rigid, asshole.

[Bretsky]

What if Love turns out to be good (like Rodgers was)? Is it still stupid?



Are you predicting Love is going to be that good ? If Love turns out to be in consideration for one of the greatest QB's of all time I'll be happily wrong. Time will tell. My view could be spot on or wrong

[Bretsky]

All hearsay. You should quit listening to these guys. None of these guys are that in the know. Some of this is just plain false. The Rodgers-Elway golfing rumor has been debunked. It’s more likely that Hawk, Kuhn, and Jones are more plugged in. They all think he’ll play for the Packers this year.



I think you should give them way more credit. I do value Kuhn on the same level. All three of those guys are IMO in the know some on Rodgers as well as the organization.
Wilde predicted all of this chaos between Rodgers and Gute right after the season ended. He's has a ton of interraction with AROD since he got here. And he's not all pro player. He's often stated how personable and nice and social AROD was in his first five years here. He's also stated he has never witnessed a player's tone and personality change more over the past ten years than Rodgers. Wilde has good relations with all of the guys who cover the Packers as well as many of the players.

I was not aware the golfing was debunked; I actually thought it was confirmed.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Are you predicting Love is going to be that good ? If Love turns out to be in consideration for one of the greatest QB's of all time I'll be happily wrong. Time will tell. My view could be spot on or wrong

He doesn't need to be one of the greatest QBs of all-time. He just needs to be good enough. His contract is going to allow the Packers to build a better team around him.

You cherry pick some scouting reports or insinuate a lack of training camp praise (when there wasn't much training camp to speak of) means he's going to be a bust. Watch his tape... particularly the 2018 season. Let me know what you think. I think he looked good. However, I'm not the one overreacting to every media report out there. He could be bad, average, good, or great. I'm willing to let it play out before overreacting.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think you should give them way more credit. I do value Kuhn on the same level. All three of those guys are IMO in the know some on Rodgers as well as the organization.
Wilde predicted all of this chaos between Rodgers and Gute right after the season ended. He's has a ton of interraction with AROD since he got here. And he's not all pro player. He's often stated how personable and nice and social AROD was in his first five years here. He's also stated he has never witnessed a player's tone and personality change more over the past ten years than Rodgers. Wilde has good relations with all of the guys who cover the Packers as well as many of the players.

I was not aware the golfing was debunked; I actually thought it was confirmed.

Still speculation. If he was more in the know, he wouldn't say it's 50/50 that Rodgers comes back. I personally think Rodgers is gone... either to the Broncos or Raiders. Let them get into a bidding war. Of course, that's pure speculation. To me, it just makes the most sense. Rodgers has become hard for the front office to deal with, his value will never be higher, it will free up money they need without mortgaging their future. If they really can get 4 high draft picks + either Carr or Chubb + another guy, now's the time to do it. I think Carr + a boatload of high draft picks makes a lot of sense. Plus, Carr's contract fits exactly into the timeline they have for Love.

[Bretsky]

He doesn't need to be one of the greatest QBs of all-time. He just needs to be good enough. His contract is going to allow the Packers to build a better team around him.

You cherry pick some scouting reports or insinuate a lack of training camp praise (when there wasn't much training camp to speak of) means he's going to be a bust. Watch his tape... particularly the 2018 season. Let me know what you think. I think he looked good. However, I'm not the one overreacting to every media report out there. He could be bad, average, good, or great. I'm willing to let it play out before overreacting.



IF you really wanted to call me out and bust me you could drag back some of the pre draft threads. Overall I was very positive about Jordan Love. His 2018 tape was very good. His 2019 tape was not terrible considering he had a new and foreign offense, new coaches, and very very limited talent around him. To me, that early contract....that's the reason you draft a guy and play him right away. And going back to my ongoing point, we drafted a QB too early. Now if he turns out to guide us to a Super Bowl, I'lll very happily admit I'm wrong. But you know me, I'm a now guy HW :))

[HarveyWallbangers]

A lot of people respect Chris Simms' opinion on QBs. I think he's had some misses, but he did predict Patrick Mahomes as the best QB in 2017, Lamar Jackson as the best QB in 2018, and ranked Justin Herbert (and Love) ahead of Tua in 2020. Let's go back to what he said last year:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQc3Q72hXkQ

[King Friday]

Gute has been better than Thompson IMO, but as I said in another post - he's tone deaf. There's more to the job than just making picks and signing FA's. Those are the biggest aspects of the job, but player and public relations are just as important.

I think Gute is beginning to get a reputation around the league that he is an arrogant, rigid, asshole.

Perhaps... But most GMs have that reputation. They don't have a job where players are going to love them. Belichick is a pompous, rigid asshole Wist. He's also the best head coach in the NFL

[woodbuck27]

I agree with Rodgers chief complaints. They are some of the complaints I've been talking about for quite some time.

The Packers front office is aloof and tone deaf. Not just in how they've approached roster building since TT took over, but in how they treated first Favre and now Rodgers. There's a business side that can't be avoided, but there are smoother ways to go about it.

I think also that the younger generations who now moving into positions of power and responsibility are inexperienced and unprepared to lead as men. Their arrogance and hubris are palpable. It makes things more difficult than they need to be.

I totally agree with your assessment of Packer Management being flawed.

To not allow your QB's input in direction when that QB is as bright as Aaron Rodgers is plainly foolish.

I'm reminded of when Brett Favre worked so hard to get Randy Moss in the Green and Gold and how upset it was reported with TT when he went to sleep on that real possibility and Moss landed in NE and had what was it? 23 TD's.

[Spaulding]

A lot of people respect Chris Simms' opinion on QBs. I think he's had some misses, but he did predict Patrick Mahomes as the best QB in 2017, Lamar Jackson as the best QB in 2018, and ranked Justin Herbert (and Love) ahead of Tua in 2020. Let's go back to what he said last year:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQc3Q72hXkQ

Thanks for sharing. Hadn't seen that video before and I like points he makes. Gives me hope that if Rodgers is gone this year or next that Love has a real chance to be a solid starter.

[ThunderDan]

I totally agree with your assessment of Packer Management being flawed.

To not allow your QB's input in direction when that QB is as bright as Aaron Rodgers is plainly foolish.

I'm reminded of when Brett Favre worked so hard to get Randy Moss in the Green and Gold and how upset it was reported with TT when he went to sleep on that real possibility and Moss landed in NE and had what was it? 23 TD's.

And what many people forget to remember about that, the Packers O only threw for 400 less yards than the Patriots did that year, 4,700 to 4,300 yards.

The Packers were one super cold I don't want to play BF interception from facing the Patriots in the Super Bowl that year.

[Upnorth]

And what many people forget to remember about that, the Packers O only threw for 400 less yards than the Patriots did that year, 4,700 to 4,300 yards.

The Packers were one super cold I don't want to play BF interception from facing the Patriots in the Super Bowl that year.

And likely beating them as our d was steadily improving through put the end of the season.

[George Cumby]

And what many people forget to remember about that, the Packers O only threw for 400 less yards than the Patriots did that year, 4,700 to 4,300 yards.

The Packers were one super cold I don't want to play BF interception from facing the Patriots in the Super Bowl that year.

I really felt the Pack matched up well with them that year.

Fuck Bert Fabre.