Amos vrs savage.

[Upnorth]

Until we see stokes in action I would argue our starting saftey are the strongest defensive unit we have. The nitro package with Smith bros and Gary is up there but that is just on obvious passing downs.

My question is do we see a third year jump for savage and he over takes amos as #1?
To my eyes amos is top 10 in the league already. So savage over taking him puts savagein the 2nd team all pro discussion.

Either of these two look that good to you guys? Amos does most of the time to me and is only missing the ints, but the ball doesn't go his way. I think savage will start pushing the ball more often to Amos area as he ascends.

[Zool]

I hate to look to the past, but Collins made a jump in year 4. If Savage makes a jump like that he will finally be the deep FS that they have been missing since Nick.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Collins and Sharper both made jumps in year 4. They both went from young, ascending, error prone players to Pro Bowlers in year 4. Savage has only played 2 years. I'm confident he'll take a jump like those guys in the next two years.

Amos is just plain solid--a better than average starter who'll likely never be elite (Collins, Earl Thomas, Ed Reed elite).

[Bretsky]

Agree; Amos is Solid. Savage can be special if he develops. Solid to stellar duo

[call_me_ishmael]

Are they the best safety duo in the league? I think Amos is criminally underrated. To my untrained and uninformed eye, he is not a superstar that changes a game but he is extremely solid and does

[bobblehead]

Hope I'm wrong, but I have largely felt they are the most over rated part of the team. I haven't seen anything special from either one to be honest. Collins flashed big time before he finally broke out. My opinion of them is they are both middle of the pack safeties. Amos as a box safety being middle of the pack is over paid. just my 2 cents.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Hope I'm wrong, but I have largely felt they are the most over rated part of the team. I haven't seen anything special from either one to be honest. Collins flashed big time before he finally broke out. My opinion of them is they are both middle of the pack safeties. Amos as a box safety being middle of the pack is over paid. just my 2 cents.

Savage didn't flash with his 4 interceptions in his last 6 games--including some acrobatic ones?

Amos is really solid. Has graded well in pass defense and run defense for three years running (including his last year in Chicago).

The duo is already one of the best in the NFL--with the potential to be top 3.

[run pMc]

Amos is above-average but not Pro-Bowl. Savage wasn't as good as Amos but he improved as the year went on.
Amos is what he is at this point, Savage still has room to get better and probably will. This year Savage might overtake Amos. I'd like to see a little more before I say he'll be as good as Collins.

I don't know if they are a top 5 tandem; safety play is not always obvious unless you watch a lot of All-22 from around the league and know what their responsibilities are in that defensive scheme and play-call. Would you say either was a top 10 safety last year? I'm not sure I would.

I do know they are a huge improvement over the days of MD Jennings, or even Ha-Ha. They overpaid for Amos because he was a FA, but moreso because they had to after trading HaHa and admitting their other safeties were garbage. Seems like they're doing a little better job of paying attention to that position.

[call_me_ishmael]

If you were to ask me who the best defenders are on the team, I think I'd say Kenny Clark, Amos, then Z in that order. Hot take, I guess.

Whoops, forgot about the CB, who is #1 obviously.

[Upnorth]

I really feel like we are getting an ascending secondary if stokes is a quality #2. Big if but he has near jaire potential.

Can we actually splurge on an ilb next draft before the 6th rd??

[texaspackerbacker]

Both them seem a lot more impressive in some games than others. Savage has a lot of potential, and at times he reminded me of Nick Collins last season. If Stokes really is a shut down Corner, same as Jaire, then our Safetys should both have some chances for picks and breakups.

vs.? Like who's better? I like Savage because of the speed, but Amos has the experience and toughness against the run. I've got plenty of bad memories about a big hole in the middle of the field where opponents can pass at will. Hopefully this year we don't see much of that.

[red]

i have no clue if they are the top duo in the league, but they are far from our problem on defense and both very capable players

[bobblehead]

Savage didn't flash with his 4 interceptions in his last 6 games--including some acrobatic ones?


I guess I should give him some credit, but it looked like he only earned one of those and the other 3 were sort of easy. Much like the King picks in 2019. I just haven't seen him MAKE plays as opposed to being ok sort of. I want to see him streak in and take the ball, or light up a back who is running towards the edge. He generally is in the right position I guess, but as I said, that is middle of the pack stuff.

[Upnorth]

Middle of the pack is 3 picks? I say 3 because on 1 he 'earned' so im ok eliminating that one. But the average safety gets 3 picks just from being in the right spot? Which decade? Because that is simply not accurate in the last 10 years.
I would argue an elite safety is just 'in the right position' for 90 % of the plays and showing your flash on the last 10%. So 4 to 5 plays a game.

[bobblehead]

I hate to look to the past, but Collins made a jump in year 4. If Savage makes a jump like that he will finally be the deep FS that they have been missing since Nick.

I thought Collins broke through to GREATNESS. I don't see Savage doing that. He hasn't flashed the same way. If he can breakthrough to truly being a top 10 safety I'm thrilled. Collins was right their with Polamalu and Ed Reed when he got hurt. I don't ever see Savage that way. But a nice eraser roaming the back line. I could see that.

[bobblehead]

i have no clue if they are the top duo in the league, but they are far from our problem on defense and both very capable players

Can't argue that. I said over rated because people are saying "possibly best duo in the league". But capable yes. Savage may yet become very good. And not near the problem of no ILB to speak of. We also need faith that Keke makes the jump or that DL is a liability.

[Upnorth]

If savage can become as good and steady as Amos then i would argue we have tbe best coverage safeties in the league by far. Perhaps not against the run though

[call_me_ishmael]

I thought Collins broke through to GREATNESS. I don't see Savage doing that. He hasn't flashed the same way. If he can breakthrough to truly being a top 10 safety I'm thrilled. Collins was right their with Polamalu and Ed Reed when he got hurt. I don't ever see Savage that way. But a nice eraser roaming the back line. I could see that.

Yeah Nick Collins are really, really special in my opinion. It felt like it was just the beginning for him too.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Nick Collins became special, but there's nothing keeping Savage from doing likewise. Collins was actually pretty poor his first three years. He had 4 total interceptions and took poor angles, but you saw enough flashes (and insane athleticism) to remain patient. Savage's first two years are on par with Collins. Collins probably had his worst year in year 3, and people started to lose patience, before he became an elite safety for years 4-6. Savage will probably never be the thumper that Collins became. Collins was just sturdier.

Nick Collins - 5'11' 207, 4.36 40, 11 bench, 118" broad jump, 4.16 ss, 6.94 3 cone, 40" vertical
Darnell Savage = 5'11" 198, 4.36 40, 11 bench, 126" broad jump, 4.14 ss, 7.03 3 cone, 39.5" vertical

[texaspackerbacker]

How do they compare in neck size, or doesn't that correlate with neck injuries? Is there a doctor in the house who might know?

[Zool]

Nick Collins became special, but there's nothing keeping Savage from doing likewise. Collins was actually pretty poor his first three years. He had 4 total interceptions and took poor angles, but you saw enough flashes (and insane athleticism) to remain patient. Savage's first two years are on par with Collins. Collins probably had his worst year in year 3, and people started to lose patience, before he became an elite safety for years 4-6. Savage will probably never be the thumper that Collins became. Collins was just sturdier.

Nick Collins - 5'11' 207, 4.36 40, 11 bench, 118" broad jump, 4.16 ss, 6.94 3 cone, 40" vertical
Darnell Savage = 5'11" 198, 4.36 40, 11 bench, 126" broad jump, 4.14 ss, 7.03 3 cone, 39.5" vertical

Yup. People were pissed about "wasting" a second round pick on a guy from a small school who was just an athlete. No game sense at all. I think he played through injury in year 3 but he sucked on ice that year.

Remember how people here wanted Devante Adams gone after year 2? Another "wasted second rounder".

That's the beauty of fandom. You can say whatever stupid shit you want, and have the delusion that you actually could run a team better than the morons running the team. The internet has only amplified this insanity.

[Upnorth]

Yup. People were pissed about "wasting" a second round pick on a guy from a small school who was just an athlete. No game sense at all. I think he played through injury in year 3 but he sucked on ice that year.

Remember how people here wanted Devante Adams gone after year 2? Another "wasted second rounder".

That's the beauty of fandom. You can say whatever stupid shit you want, and have the delusion that you actually could run a team better than the morons running the team. The internet has only amplified this insanity.

Stop making sense. This is the internet for goodness sakes

[Zool]

Stop making sense. This is the internet for goodness sakes

Don't tell anyone it was me. I don't want the internet police to shut off my service. Tell them it was Tex.

[bobblehead]

Nick Collins became special, but there's nothing keeping Savage from doing likewise. Collins was actually pretty poor his first three years. He had 4 total interceptions and took poor angles, but you saw enough flashes (and insane athleticism) to remain patient. Savage's first two years are on par with Collins. Collins probably had his worst year in year 3, and people started to lose patience, before he became an elite safety for years 4-6. Savage will probably never be the thumper that Collins became. Collins was just sturdier.

Nick Collins - 5'11' 207, 4.36 40, 11 bench, 118" broad jump, 4.16 ss, 6.94 3 cone, 40" vertical
Darnell Savage = 5'11" 198, 4.36 40, 11 bench, 126" broad jump, 4.14 ss, 7.03 3 cone, 39.5" vertical

That sums it up. I felt Collins was built like a LB. He was similar to Devin Bush but a step quicker. Just would cut down backs if they ran east/west.

The only reason I say I doubt Savage achieves that level is simply that the math says he won't. Few do. But again, if Savage becomes a top 10 safety I'm thrilled. Can't argue the athleticism, but I have seen many great athletes fail.

Honestly the guy who tracks Collins on the current roster is MVS. Has flashed greatness, but we wonder if he can ever gain consistency. If there is one player who could "shock" the fan base this season I'm going with MVS....If Rodgers comes back.

[call_me_ishmael]

That sums it up. I felt Collins was built like a LB. He was similar to Devin Bush but a step quicker. Just would cut down backs if they ran east/west.

The only reason I say I doubt Savage achieves that level is simply that the math says he won't. Few do. But again, if Savage becomes a top 10 safety I'm thrilled. Can't argue the athleticism, but I have seen many great athletes fail.

Honestly the guy who tracks Collins on the current roster is MVS. Has flashed greatness, but we wonder if he can ever gain consistency. If there is one player who could "shock" the fan base this season I'm going with MVS....If Rodgers comes back.

Devin White is a really good comp for Nick Collins playing the run.

[RashanGary]

Devin White is a really good comp for Nick Collins playing the run.

Devin Bush. The Michigan small line backer. Devin white is a rare BIG linebacker who can move like a safety. Bush is a small linebacker that moves like a safety. Collins could have played either position. Bush is kind of a hybrid too. White is a pure linebacker

[HarveyWallbangers]

According to Doug Farrar of USA Today/Touchdown Wire, Savage already ranks #3 on the list of top 11 safeties in the NFL. Amos honorable mention.

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists/nfl-best-safeties-justin-simmons-darnell-savage-tyrann-mathieu/


Green Bay’s pass defense was a disappointment at times in the 2020 season, ranking 15th in Football Outsiders’ opponent-adjusted metrics, but Savage was decisively not part of the problem. Last season, he excelled in the box, in the slot, and at free safety, allowing 18 catches on 33 targets for 356 yards, 109 yards after the catch, one touchdown, four interceptions, seven pass breakups, and an opponent passer rating of 63.0. Savage’s combination of athleticism, route awareness, ability to read and react to play design, and closing speed make him one of the best young defensive players in the NFL.

[Upnorth]

That ofvthe highest ive seen him rated. By far. But I do think he will be an all pro shortly

[RashanGary]

That ofvthe highest ive seen him rated. By far. But I do think he will be an all pro shortly

There is some projection there. He wasn’t the third best safety in the league last year. He was the second best on his own team. But if you’re picking young up and comers, he’s probably near the top of the list as far as who has a chance to be near the top.

[bobblehead]

According to Doug Farrar of USA Today/Touchdown Wire, Savage already ranks #3 on the list of top 11 safeties in the NFL. Amos honorable mention.

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists/nfl-best-safeties-justin-simmons-darnell-savage-tyrann-mathieu/

Its amazing our defense wasn't much better with Jaire, Clark, Z and the #3 safety in all of football!!

I don't believe the writers as much as I do my eyes and coaches. Jaire is special. Clark is when motivated. Z is insane on the inside pass rush. Gary flashed last year with his ability to set the edge. Savage improved as the year went on, but I didn't see special. Hope I'm wrong.

[wist43]

Its amazing our defense wasn't much better with Jaire, Clark, Z and the #3 safety in all of football!!

I don't believe the writers as much as I do my eyes and coaches. Jaire is special. Clark is when motivated. Z is insane on the inside pass rush. Gary flashed last year with his ability to set the edge. Savage improved as the year went on, but I didn't see special. Hope I'm wrong.

We're mediocre at best in the middle - the Packers haven't cared about ILB forever, and it shows on the field. I'll never be able to figure out why the Packers care so little about the middle of their defense. It just is what it is.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Its amazing our defense wasn't much better with Jaire, Clark, Z and the #3 safety in all of football!!

I don't believe the writers as much as I do my eyes and coaches. Jaire is special. Clark is when motivated. Z is insane on the inside pass rush. Gary flashed last year with his ability to set the edge. Savage improved as the year went on, but I didn't see special. Hope I'm wrong.

I think it comes down to how much stock you put into the second half of the season. Savage went through normal growing pains his first 1 1/2 years, but he was a very good player the second half of the year. Nothing (athleticism, smarts, work ethic) tells me he won't continue to get better and become a Pro Bowl, maybe All Pro, caliber player in the next year or two.

[call_me_ishmael]

I think it comes down to how much stock you put into the second half of the season. Savage went through normal growing pains his first 1 1/2 years, but he was a very good player the second half of the year. Nothing (athleticism, smarts, work ethic) tells me he won't continue to get better and become a Pro Bowl, maybe All Pro, caliber player in the next year or two.

Possibly size. He still seems very small. But I agree. He has the tools short of size and everything is in front of him.

[wist43]

I think it comes down to how much stock you put into the second half of the season. Savage went through normal growing pains his first 1 1/2 years, but he was a very good player the second half of the year. Nothing (athleticism, smarts, work ethic) tells me he won't continue to get better and become a Pro Bowl, maybe All Pro, caliber player in the next year or two.

I agree.

[run pMc]

Me too, wist. I think Savage had moments where he struggled early last season, but it seemed to slow down for him and he improved considerably by the end. You like to see that kind of jump in your young players. He could be primed for a big year, but until it happens it's just hope.

FWIW I don't think he was the #3 safety last year. He might be this year though.

As for the D being weak down the middle, I'll look for your thoughts in the Devondre Campbell thread, wist.

[Upnorth]

I can't believe how much positive press savage is getting

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/lists/green-bay-packers-5-best-players-under-25-years-old/

I struggle to have savafe above gary, but i think Gary will be our 3rd best d player this year after jaire and Clark.

I am starting to think this Amos vrs savage thread we timely on my part. Dam im smrt, er smart.

[wist43]

I can't believe how much positive press savage is getting

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/lists/green-bay-packers-5-best-players-under-25-years-old/

I struggle to have savafe above gary, but i think Gary will be our 3rd best d player this year after jaire and Clark.

I am starting to think this Amos vrs savage thread we timely on my part. Dam im smrt, er smart.

I see Savage's upside and think he can be a very good player... same with Gary.

The wildcard in their continued improvement, however, is Berry. If he's bad, the defense will be bad, and individual performances and development will suffer.

I have no idea what's going to happen, but I'm not holding my breath - Berry has not produced with the opportunities he's had as a DC.