Official Jordan Love Bandwagon Thread:

[George Cumby]

Get on board, bitches.

[King Friday]

I'm on board. I didn't like the pick initially, and I still think it was the wrong move at the time. However, my interest in Love has increased this off-season. His skill set appears to align well to the offense we have moved to. The Packers were clearly extremely high on the kid as they traded draft capital and a chance to immediately improve a contending team to get him. I have to assume MLF was as excited about the kid as Gute was, or the pick doesn't happen.

I'm tired of Rodgers at this point. His gripes seem rather petty and trivial, and it seems he is about to plunge headlong into an abyss of selfishness. You'd think the Packers front office was diddling kids the way Rodgers approaches this. I'm also starting to think this is way more about MLF's decisions to kick field goals and take the ball out of his hands. Rodgers seems to enjoy bringing that up whenever he gets the chance. His "I'm the smartest guy in the room" act is wearing thin.

[George Cumby]

King Friday: Plank Holder with BIG BRASS BALLS.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Rodgers seemed to resent MM just as much.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm rooting for Love to be good now that he's a Packer, and it sounds like he just might be. I'm NOT thinking positive at all about the pick, though. It was stupid on several levels, and it has the strong potential for negative consequences on several levels. There's no way IMO that Love, even if he is the best anybody has reason to hope he will be, would be nearly as good as Aaron Rodgers in '21, Rodgers in '22, Rodgers in '23, and probably not as good as Rodgers well beyond that. That's nothing against Love, though - nobody else would be better than Rodgers at those points either.

[Jaire]

Get on board, bitches.



Hahaha

I'm on board.......

Still think AR may be back (not sure anymore if he knows and he's said plenty more than enough to conclude he really has not decided).

Anyways, I understand AR's side. I'm over the drama and am good either way. Totally over it.

[Upnorth]

I am definitely lovin the Love for Love. I'm onboard the train.

[Spaulding]

Jumping on early even if it might be a train ride with a bridge out ahead. Better to be the engine and leading than the caboose trailing at the end.

[George Cumby]

I'm rooting for Love to be good now that he's a Packer, and it sounds like he just might be. I'm NOT thinking positive at all about the pick, though. It was stupid on several levels, and it has the strong potential for negative consequences on several levels. There's no way IMO that Love, even if he is the best anybody has reason to hope he will be, would be nearly as good as Aaron Rodgers in '21, Rodgers in '22, Rodgers in '23, and probably not as good as Rodgers well beyond that. That's nothing against Love, though - nobody else would be better than Rodgers at those points either.

Tex kinda' sorta' on board, but stiil clinging to his man love for Rodgers.

[George Cumby]

Hahaha

I'm on board.......

Still think AR may be back (not sure anymore if he knows and he's said plenty more than enough to conclude he really has not decided).

Anyways, I understand AR's side. I'm over the drama and am good either way. Totally over it.

Jaire qualifying his way on board.

[George Cumby]

I am definitely lovin the Love for Love. I'm onboard the train.

Upnorth not holding back! ON BOARD!

[George Cumby]

Jumping on early even if it might be a train ride with a bridge out ahead. Better to be the engine and leading than the caboose trailing at the end.

SPAULDING! CHOO FUCKING CHOO!

[Joemailman]

The O'Jays are on board.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BlkTSKqE_8

[King Friday]

Rodgers seemed to resent MM just as much.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Love pick was at least in part coming from the lack of true leadership from Rodgers in the last season plus of fat Mike's tenure. Rodgers hesitates to publicly point the finger at himself, and it became quite obvious during that period. Now, maybe he is better at that behind closed doors, but I find that unlikely.

If Rodgers is intent on taking a holdout well into August to "prove a point", then I'm fed up with him. At that point, he will have become a cancer to the team, regardless of his talent and ability. To me, he has through the first week of August to clearly identify the issues causing him to not fulfill his contractual obligations...and they better not amount to his lame "it's about the people" garbage he mentioned in the ESPN interview. Specific, clear, logical...or send his ass to Siberia because he's not the leader we need moving forward.

[texaspackerbacker]

Tex kinda' sorta' on board, but stiil clinging to his man love for Rodgers.

How could anybody be any more than that on either count, given at Love is completely unproven, just looking good in unpadded practices - supposedly, and Rodgers has shown no indication of being less than the best in the league, as he was last season, and is the GOAT for his career. I guarantee you, though, if Rodgers goes somewhere else, I'll turn on him in a heartbeat. I just don't expect that to happen.

[Tony Oday]

Hall of Fame QB, first team ever to have THREE in a row!

[Upnorth]

Hall of Fame QB, first team ever to have THREE in a row!

Your lips to football gods ears

[Harlan Huckleby]

If Rodgers is intent on taking a holdout well into August to "prove a point", then I'm fed up with him. At that point, he will have become a cancer to the team, regardless of his talent and ability.

Just my interpretation, but I don't think Rodgers is or will ever be a "cancer." I expect the players will support him when he comes back. I don't even think management will hold any grudges. He's still respected by all.

I have a high opinion of AR and his judgement. I suspect whatever he is pissed about is legit - he might be right about certain personnel moves. AR is motivated by a passion to win. He just has blind spot about submitting to a boss.

I'm happy with Love until Rodgers returns. Only stupidity would be if they cut AR loose.

[HarveyWallbangers]

You know I'm running this train! :)

[RashanGary]

I was late on Rodgers. I’ll be late on love too.

[MadtownPacker]

You know I'm running this train! :)I said we should let erin go since way before. Since his first preseason game at SF when he showed his true colors. Recall you ripped me for daring to say he wasn’t America’s sweetheart. Favre just wanted to skip workouts and you all said fuck him. Rodgers is trying to cause strife which means he is no longer with the Packers organization, he is against it.

Dude was just all stats, never had any heart.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I said we should let erin go since way before. Since his first preseason game at SF when he showed his true colors. Recall you ripped me for daring to say he wasn’t America’s sweetheart. Favre just wanted to skip workouts and you all said fuck him. Rodgers is trying to cause strife which means he is no longer with the Packers organization, he is against it.

Dude was just all stats, never had any heart.

That's anti-Rodgers. I'm more pro-Love.

[texaspackerbacker]

I said we should let erin go since way before. Since his first preseason game at SF when he showed his true colors. Recall you ripped me for daring to say he wasn’t America’s sweetheart. Favre just wanted to skip workouts and you all said fuck him. Rodgers is trying to cause strife which means he is no longer with the Packers organization, he is against it.

Dude was just all stats, never had any heart.

Just pretend for a moment that he didn't snub your kid, and did sign an autograph or whatever for him. What would you now be saying if it had gone down that way?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Dude was just all stats, never had any heart.

viper

[Joemailman]

That's anti-Rodgers. I'm more pro-Love.

Wild Flower Child.

[MadtownPacker]

Just pretend for a moment that he didn't snub your kid, and did sign an autograph or whatever for him. What would you now be saying if it had gone down that way?
I am positive if it had went down in your bizarro world scenario that would mean Rodgers wasn’t a shitty human being. It will also mean he probably talks to his parents too right? Since we are pretending. It would mean he encouraged his teammates in a constructive manner when they ran the wrong route instead of rolling his eyes like a female. But to indulge you let’s say he wasn’t a complete dbag. Yeah things are just peachy at Lambeau today.

Damn he sounds like a swell guy of you say the complete opposite of what he really is!!

So what is your stupid ass point? Don’t you live in reality? Oh wait you are the moron who blindly follow things just because they fall in line with his beliefs. What a stupid mfer you are. Wish I could get you over here with some skank bitches that would have you buy them dope all night for sex then rob you in the morning. Then we could see how Good and Normal you really are.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I wish I could get you over here with some skank bitches that would have you buy them dope all night for sex then rob you in the morning. Then we could see how Good and Normal you really are.

Meester, you want to screw my seesters?

[RashanGary]

I am positive if it had went down in your bizarro world scenario that would mean Rodgers wasn’t a shitty human being. It will also mean he probably talks to his parents too right? Since we are pretending. It would mean he encouraged his teammates in a constructive manner when they ran the wrong route instead of rolling his eyes like a female. But to indulge you let’s say he wasn’t a complete dbag. Yeah things are just peachy at Lambeau today.

Damn he sounds like a swell guy of you say the complete opposite of what he really is!!

So what is your stupid ass point? Don’t you live in reality? Oh wait you are the moron who blindly follow things just because they fall in line with his beliefs. What a stupid mfer you are. Wish I could get you over here with some skank bitches that would have you buy them dope all night for sex then rob you in the morning. Then we could see how Good and Normal you really are.

Mtp for the win :lol:

[George Cumby]

Hall of Fame QB, first team ever to have THREE in a row!

Tony FUCKING Oday jumping to the TRIPLE DOG DARE!

[George Cumby]

Your lips to football gods ears

Fortune favors the bold.

[George Cumby]

You know I'm running this train! :)

Someone get Harv a conductor's hat!

[George Cumby]

I said we should let erin go since way before. Since his first preseason game at SF when he showed his true colors. Recall you ripped me for daring to say he wasn’t America’s sweetheart. Favre just wanted to skip workouts and you all said fuck him. Rodgers is trying to cause strife which means he is no longer with the Packers organization, he is against it.

Dude was just all stats, never had any heart.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVVTZgwYwVo

[George Cumby]

I am positive if it had went down in your bizarro world scenario that would mean Rodgers wasn’t a shitty human being. It will also mean he probably talks to his parents too right? Since we are pretending. It would mean he encouraged his teammates in a constructive manner when they ran the wrong route instead of rolling his eyes like a female. But to indulge you let’s say he wasn’t a complete dbag. Yeah things are just peachy at Lambeau today.

Damn he sounds like a swell guy of you say the complete opposite of what he really is!!

So what is your stupid ass point? Don’t you live in reality? Oh wait you are the moron who blindly follow things just because they fall in line with his beliefs. What a stupid mfer you are. Wish I could get you over here with some skank bitches that would have you buy them dope all night for sex then rob you in the morning. Then we could see how Good and Normal you really are.

So......uhhhhhhhh.......how do you REALLY feel?

:-)

[texaspackerbacker]

I am positive if it had went down in your bizarro world scenario that would mean Rodgers wasn’t a shitty human being. It will also mean he probably talks to his parents too right? Since we are pretending. It would mean he encouraged his teammates in a constructive manner when they ran the wrong route instead of rolling his eyes like a female. But to indulge you let’s say he wasn’t a complete dbag. Yeah things are just peachy at Lambeau today.

Damn he sounds like a swell guy of you say the complete opposite of what he really is!!

So what is your stupid ass point? Don’t you live in reality? Oh wait you are the moron who blindly follow things just because they fall in line with his beliefs. What a stupid mfer you are. Wish I could get you over here with some skank bitches that would have you buy them dope all night for sex then rob you in the morning. Then we could see how Good and Normal you really are.

hahahahaha My point was, you just might have an ax to grind that affected your opinion.

I'll tell you about my first time in Frisco in the early 70s. I was stationed in Monterey at the army language school. I had a friend who was a chaplain's assistant of all things. We went to North Beach (which I hadn't heard of previously) to get laid (he wasn't exactly a good normal chaplain's assistant). We went to several of the topless bottomless places and finally got up the courage to try some soliciting. We paid the money, followed the girl out the back door supposedly to some sort of room where a couple of big Asian-looking dudes blocked our path and suggested we be on our way or else. We didn't wait around to find out or else what hahahaha.

[Harlan Huckleby]

We paid the money, followed the girl out the back door supposedly to some sort of room where a couple of big Asian-looking dudes blocked our path and suggested we be on our way or else. We didn't wait around to find out or else what hahahaha.

I was in Hamburg where prostitution is legal, along with 500 18-year-old cadets on training cruise. The stories were horrifying. Guys would pay for sex and receive a hand job and $200 bill for drinks for the prostitute. Burly thugs would appear suddenly after watching through one-way windows. Whether prostitution is legal or illegal it's still controlled by thugs. I'm sticking to Mad's sisters.

[Bretsky]

I was VERY late to get on board with Rodgers and for Karma sake I'm doing the same here. At least I have another wagon to piss on :)))

[RashanGary]

I was VERY late to get on board with Rodgers and for Karma sake I'm doing the same here. At least I have another wagon to piss on :)))

Me and Bretsky are on the doubt wagon. Let’s hope we’re wrong.

[Bretsky]

Me and Bretsky are on the doubt wagon. Let’s hope we’re wrong.


I really hope so as well.

[Spaulding]

Me and Bretsky are on the doubt wagon. Let’s hope we’re wrong.

Wait, we have a player on the roster named "Doubt?" :-D

[Jaire]

Me and Bretsky are on the doubt wagon. Let’s hope we’re wrong.

My being on the band wagon is conditional on preseason play. No one has seen nothing yet. He could be Deshone Kizer 2.0

[Bretsky]

My being on the band wagon is conditional on preseason play. No one has seen nothing yet. He could be Deshone Kizer 2.0



Stop being a p@ssy

You are either ON or OFF and you will be judged off your opinion down the road when this thread gets bumped years from now :))))))

I'm the Najeh Davenport on this wagon; Where is the Closet ????

[RashanGary]

The Packers are voiding a year of Rodgers contract and making it way more likely Love starts in 2023. They wouldn't have done that if they didn't feel pretty good about #10.

I'd like to put half a foot in and wait until after preseason to decide which way to go.

[RashanGary]

What's better for Jordan Love? Another year learning from a GOAT and getting to develop without the pressure on or getting a couple picks for Rodgers after this year and Love getting the extra firepower to start his career?

[George Cumby]

What's better for Jordan Love? Another year learning from a GOAT and getting to develop without the pressure on or getting a couple picks for Rodgers after this year and Love getting the extra firepower to start his career?

This, Rodgers playing one more year, is IDEAL for Love.

All ABOARRRD!

CHOO!! CHOO!!

[RashanGary]

All eyes on 10 now

[Bretsky]

The Packers are voiding a year of Rodgers contract and making it way more likely Love starts in 2023. They wouldn't have done that if they didn't feel pretty good about #10.

.



I think AROD just got a death grip in Gutebags Nuts and squeezed the living shit out of him until he cried mercy mercy AROD you can get whatever you want to show up :)) We'll even bring back the Cobbmeister

[Jaire]

Ok.

I've seen enough. Hope Love has a great career and proves me wrong, but I am on the Benkert band wagon. I don't think love has what it takes and don't think he will, something I've been watching to see for a while. Benkert won't ever be great but he doesn't have any expectations.

[Teamcheez1]

Thanks for your expert opinion. We can now cut Love tomorrow to help get to 80 players.

[RashanGary]

Thanks for your expert opinion. We can now cut Love tomorrow to help get to 80 players.

:lol:

[Jaire]

Thanks for your expert opinion. We can now cut Love tomorrow to help get to 80 players.

Just my opinion

Just having some fun too.

But I do have more confidence in Benkert getting us through a season or two than Love. Sorry I don't just trust the FO like others. And I have seen enough from Love and heard enough from him and players on the two QBs

[texaspackerbacker]

I tend to agree with what Jaire said. Love has a helluva lot to prove just to show he is significantly better than UFA Benkert. He's apparently gonna get his chance this week. Buffalo thoroughly kicked the ass of the Bears, and now we have to go to their place. If Love stands out in this game, I'm prepared to change my mind about his mediocrity, and I suspect LaFleur will give him a lot more weapons than Benkert had against the Jets. We'll see how it plays out.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I’m assuming this is a joke?

[Bretsky]

I’m assuming this is a joke?

Don't think it is

I like Love more and Benkert

[Upnorth]

From an arm talent, mobility and decision making perspective, based on what I have seen and read, love is substantially out performing the law office. Now I don't live in GB so I don't see practices but I read and watch what is available. And I don't have the same hometown biases.
In the preseason videos i have seen love made more accurate and deeper throws. Benkurt made more checkdowns. Small sample size admittedly but there was a reason benkurt was avaiable from the falcon.
12/17 for 122 with a rd and 0 picks
26/37 for 239 with a td and 2 pick.
Which line do you take?
Both are too small to really make a decision so to me our opinions probably show our biases more than anything really.

[King Friday]

You people think a guy who constantly trips over his OL is the future? There is no pressure on Benkert. He made a bunch of safe throws and produced very little. I think they tried to do more with Love in the first week with a wider playbook. He wasn't fabulous, but neither was Rodgers in his first two years. Love also got no help from the OL, which seemed to be a more organized group in week 2.

Benkert is a nice backup QB in this league...nothing more.

[bobblehead]

Just my opinion

Just having some fun too.

But I do have more confidence in Benkert getting us through a season or two than Love. Sorry I don't just trust the FO like others. And I have seen enough from Love and heard enough from him and players on the two QBs

I remember a time in America where results spoke louder than...handling the delicate QBs fragile ego.

I was one of the first to be against Gutes, but 2 NFCC games and a loaded roster can't be ignored. Firing fat mike and hiring MiLF was also a great move. I as well, think drafting Love when we did was a mistake, but I also understand why it was done.

If you are hitching your wagon to Benkert over Love as a packer or in his career its very bold....and very, well, I'll be nice.

[texaspackerbacker]

I doubt anybody sees Benkert as "the future" except maybe as the future clipboard holder. Like somebody said, he would be a decent back up. As somebody also said, the idea of Rodgers for just one more year is "ideal for Love". THAT is why, sorry to say, I can't help wanting to see Love fail miserably/get traded/whatever. Anything that gets Rodgers firmly rooted in Green Bay for the foreseeable future is what I want and should be what any Packer fan wants who likes having a winning team.

[Jaire]

I have zero confidence in Love. It's his confidence, command in the huddle, the head stuff. Benkhert seems to have all that. And I don't think it can be learned. Kurt is limited but could get us through a year or two.

That's my meaning. The tools aren't the most important thing. I could be wrong on Love, but I've been looking for those so called "intangibles" and I really don't see it with him. So to me, at least Benkhert is a nice safety valve when Love flops.

[Spaulding]

I have zero confidence in Love. It's his confidence, command in the huddle, the head stuff. Benkhert seems to have all that. And I don't think it can be learned. Kurt is limited but could get us through a year or two.

That's my meaning. The tools aren't the most important thing. I could be wrong on Love, but I've been looking for those so called "intangibles" and I really don't see it with him. So to me, at least Benkhert is a nice safety valve when Love flops.

I respect you're opinion but I feel you need to think longer and harder about even considering Benkhert a starter. He's at best currently a one or two game stop gap and likely that is his ceiling given his measureables, history and projections. Love is clearly the more talented player and was a projected high draft choice. Whether he ever pans out and fills the space between his ears with the needed vision and decision making is obviously up for debate.

It's still way too early to make an accurate assessment of him. Certainly as this season progresses we should get a much better picture of if he's NFL starter material or not.

Lastly, in reference to Tex's comments, rooting against any draft choices success (i.e against Love) is a dangerous slope to start heading down. It reeks of player worshiping versus team loyalty.

[RashanGary]

I have zero confidence in Love. It's his confidence, command in the huddle, the head stuff. Benkhert seems to have all that. And I don't think it can be learned. Kurt is limited but could get us through a year or two.

That's my meaning. The tools aren't the most important thing. I could be wrong on Love, but I've been looking for those so called "intangibles" and I really don't see it with him. So to me, at least Benkhert is a nice safety valve when Love flops.

You’ve seen him play one solid preseason game :lol:

[HarveyWallbangers]

I have zero confidence in Love. It's his confidence, command in the huddle, the head stuff.

I feel the exact opposite. I love his calmness in the pocket. He's got swag, and his teammates seem to gravitate to him. Even in the one preseason game, he kept his composure--despite the OL playing poorly in front of him. That checkdown to A.J. Dillon and the pass to Sternberger being two examples. I also liked the way he easily threw "off platform".

My main concern with Love is not arm strength, accuracy, mental aptitude, leadership. It's the fact he has a bit of a windup, and I don't think he's the quickest getting the ball out. Hopefully, he can improve on that.

[RashanGary]

Harvey, I’ve never noticed a wind up. Favre had a wind up. Love is a little longer. It reminds me of when Brady throws, the motion is just a little smoother and less sudden than Rodgers. But an actual wind up, I don’t see that. A longer, smoother throwing motion though. Just not coming down and around the way you’re saying. It’s efficient but from a longer body.

[George Cumby]

Ok.

I've seen enough. Hope Love has a great career and proves me wrong, but I am on the Benkert band wagon. I don't think love has what it takes and don't think he will, something I've been watching to see for a while. Benkert won't ever be great but he doesn't have any expectations.

So Jaire is a 'maybe'?

:-P

[call_me_ishmael]

I feel the exact opposite. I love his calmness in the pocket. He's got swag, and his teammates seem to gravitate to him. Even in the one preseason game, he kept his composure--despite the OL playing poorly in front of him. That checkdown to A.J. Dillon and the pass to Sternberger being two examples. I also liked the way he easily threw "off platform".

My main concern with Love is not arm strength, accuracy, mental aptitude, leadership. It's the fact he has a bit of a windup, and I don't think he's the quickest getting the ball out. Hopefully, he can improve on that.

My concerns are accuracy and mental aptitude. I haven't really noticed the slow throwing motion but Byron Leftwich comes to mind lol.

Love has a great arm, but to me from what I've seen it's not very accurate.

But everyone in the NFL has a pretty good arm and is reasonably accurate. The mental part is what separates the backups from the top notch starters.

[King Friday]

Love has a great arm, but to me from what I've seen it's not very accurate.

I think most Packer fans are clueless about the relative accuracy of NFL QBs after watching 30 years of HOF caliber QB play.

[smuggler]

Love has a really nice release. It's not as quick as Rodgers, but almost no one in the league can compare with Rodgers in that department.

[texaspackerbacker]

If by that, ya'all mean with a little bit of polish and experience, he could be an average, maybe even slightly above average NFL QB, yeah, I suppose. To me, though, somehow that ain't quite enough. Hell, you could bring back Favre right now, and he'd be that. Aaron Rodgers in his early to mid fifties would probably still be that.

And that doesn't say anything at all about the most important factor of all: attitude/mindset/whatever not to throw interceptions. You would think Love would have a healthy dose of that by now after watching Rodgers for a year plus, but no. He put it up for grabs and threw one, and very well could have had one or two others last Saturday.

Trade Love to some team that would be satisfied with a QB of that level - get a 4th, 3rd, or if we're really lucky maybe a 2nd round pick, and just ride Rodgers as long as possible.

[Bretsky]

Love has a really nice release. It's not as quick as Rodgers, but almost no one in the league can compare with Rodgers in that department.


I hope I'm wrong but to me Love seems like he'll be a decent middle of the road starter that we spent draft picks about 3 years too early. You don't let AROD walk out the door for this

[Fritz]

I hope I'm wrong but to me Love seems like he'll be a decent middle of the road starter that we spent draft picks about 3 years too early. You don't let AROD walk out the door for this

If this is true - and all of us hope it's not, and that Love Wins, as they say - but if it's true, then the Packers have this season to realize what Love is and to fix their mistake.

But it took me about fifty years to figure out what Love really is, so I'm not hopeful the Packers can learn that in three years.

[HarveyWallbangers]

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2021/08/29/jordan-love-green-bay-packers-aaron-rodgers/?taid=612bb8136415690001038768&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

[George Cumby]

Good watch, Harv.

I see what you mean about his throwing motion, it's fast, but it's loopy.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I thought Love’s arm talent was what I expected. He had a lot of good moments. He threw with timing and anticipation. Good footwork. All of that was maybe better than expected. He threw off platform. The negative was the two panicked throws. Hopefully, those are just rookie mistakes. When he played on schedule from the pocket, he looked calm. When things went sideways, he okay in the first game and awful in the third game. Lots of guys go through that—Favre, Manning, Allen. Overall, I was relatively encouraged. I think most outside of the Packers fans that didn’t like the pick feel the same way. We have a great situation at QB and RB. Probably the best depth chart in the league at those two positions. The pass catchers look strong. OL is encouraging, if Bakh comes back soon. I feel better about the DL, worse about the OLBs. Depth at CB (after the first 4) is disappointing. Safeties were mostly solid. Not sure how to get a read on the ILBs. Barnes looked good. Campbell didn’t play. McDuffie has his moments. Wilborn too.

[call_me_ishmael]

I hope I'm wrong but to me Love seems like he'll be a decent middle of the road starter that we spent draft picks about 3 years too early. You don't let AROD walk out the door for this

Exactly. And if you have a middle of the road NFL starter what are you even doing? You move on every single year until you have a star at the spot or you will win exactly nothing.

[bobblehead]

Exactly. And if you have a middle of the road NFL starter what are you even doing? You move on every single year until you have a star at the spot or you will win exactly nothing.

Just got off the phone with Ozzie Newsome. He disagrees. As does Jim Mcmahon, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, and Nick Foles. I'll throw in Russell Wilson (very over rated). If it wasn't for Tom Brady winning 7 of them since 2003 I could add to that list. Tom is pretty effing good, but honestly its easier when you have the #1 defense every year and play in the AFC East.

[bobblehead]

Other QBs who made the big game and lost: Tony Eason, Boomer Esiason, Stan Humphries, Neil ODonnell, Drew Bledsoe, Chris Chandler, Kerry Collins, Rich Gannon, Jake Delhomme, Matt Hasselback, Rex Grossman, Colin Kapernick, Jared Goff and Jimmy Garopallo.

I don't consider making it to the Owl as winning exactly nothing. And if thats all that matters I could go on and on about all the great QBs who made 1 or zero Owls.

[smuggler]

Gannon was an MVP and Boomer Esaison was a damn good player.

[call_me_ishmael]

Just got off the phone with Ozzie Newsome. He disagrees. As does Jim Mcmahon, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, and Nick Foles. I'll throw in Russell Wilson (very over rated). If it wasn't for Tom Brady winning 7 of them since 2003 I could add to that list. Tom is pretty effing good, but honestly its easier when you have the #1 defense every year and play in the AFC East.

Trent Dilfer had a historically good defense. Eli Manning was a very, very good player in his good years - have you forgotten his last name? Flacco also was playing great and was given the biggest contract ever given to a QB after his SB win - showing that he was a top notch QB.

The ones that are successful are outliers. I will die on this hill - if you don't have a top notch QB, you should be moving heaven and earth and cycling through them until you do.

[texaspackerbacker]

All of that is great if you like a flash-in-the-pan/boom or bust team like most of those QBs played on. I prefer a consistent winner like what we've had for going on thirty years with Favre and Rodgers. I'll take that over say for example, 5 or 6 SB winners in 30 years along with 10-20 losing records.

CMI, I agree with your post except the part about Eli, who I never considered more than mediocre.

[scharpcheddar]

Is that they choke in playoffs consistently

[RashanGary]

https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/private/q_auto:eco:444,w_1500,h_1500,c_limit/packers/pszp0qoja17bzrkfxemg


A picture of Jordan Loves looping motion that Harvey talks about.

12 benefited from that high carriage he had in college. It trained him to have a short throwing motion, almost like throwing darts with little windup. Loves is a little more common.

[Spaulding]

Perfect picture to explain the low carry and subsequent wind up RG.

[Sparkey]

Perfect picture to explain the low carry and subsequent wind up RG.

The picture is a bit deceiving as they are in different parts of the throwing motion. But, yes Rodgers has a more compact throwing motion, but he also has 15+ years of NFL coaching that has changed his throwing motion.

I recall McCarthy talking about Rodgers throwing motion after he was drafted and how they worked on him lowering his arm so that it is a more natural motion.

It will be interesting to watch how Love's throwing motion changes over his career.

[RashanGary]

Favre had a bigger loop than Love does. Probably double or worse. Rodgers had that high carriage coming out and it trained him to shorten his throwing motion. I wonder if college players being taught that would make them better NFL players in the end because it trains a short throwing motion.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Favre had a bigger loop than Love does. Probably double or worse. Rodgers had that high carriage coming out and it trained him to shorten his throwing motion. I wonder if college players being taught that would make them better NFL players in the end because it trains a short throwing motion.

I disagree. Favre didn’t have a looping throwing motion. And Favre had a quick release.

[RashanGary]

I disagree. Favre didn’t have a looping throwing motion. And Favre had a quick release.

https://youtu.be/WTrFebYfVMY

[RashanGary]

I disagree. Favre didn’t have a looping throwing motion. And Favre had a quick release.

I went and watched some highlights and Favre usually did that low loop when he was trying to throw it hard. But he definitely has a loop on a percentage of his throws. That’s unquestionable.

[RashanGary]

Murphy said he’s not sure if you can win with a star QB at a full market contract. He said Brady was always below full market and Mahommes won on his rookie deal.

We’ve all talked about this. When 20% of your cap is eaten up by one player it’s hard to win championships because it’s hard to field a team around that guy.

[Bretsky]

Murphy said he’s not sure if you can win with a star QB at a full market contract. He said Brady was always below full market and Mahommes won on his rookie deal.

We’ve all talked about this. When 20% of your cap is eaten up by one player it’s hard to win championships because it’s hard to field a team around that guy.



This is why you draft a QB ready to play form the get go and not a developmental QB 3 years too early. If you buy into this theory, you need much of the first contract to get one.

[smuggler]

But drafting the pro-ready player can end up getting you stuck with Derek Carr or Andy Dalton, who never develop into elite players and then limit their teams in other ways. There's no perfect recipe. You just make the best decisions you can in each case while keeping one eye on a loose game plan for the roster at large.

[Sparkey]

This is why you draft a QB ready to play form the get go and not a developmental QB 3 years too early. If you buy into this theory, you need much of the first contract to get one.

And if you only draft a QB if he's ready to play, then you would never draft a guy like Rodgers.

[run pMc]

And if you're drafting a pro-ready QB, you're probably a horrible team drafting in the top 5.

[texaspackerbacker]

Murphy said he’s not sure if you can win with a star QB at a full market contract. He said Brady was always below full market and Mahommes won on his rookie deal.

We’ve all talked about this. When 20% of your cap is eaten up by one player it’s hard to win championships because it’s hard to field a team around that guy.

Murphy can eat shit and die. Rodgers is damn close right now to full market value and the Packers are a loaded team. Some whine about cap problems next season, etc., but it is damn near a lock that the increase in the cap along with a few contract modifications will easily cure that.

[Bretsky]

And if you only draft a QB if he's ready to play, then you would never draft a guy like Rodgers.


Don't think anybody embraced this concept 15 years ago. Cap was different as were the times

Patrick Mahommes
Russell Wilson

Two modern day examples

[Bretsky]

And if you're drafting a pro-ready QB, you're probably a horrible team drafting in the top 5.

Mahommes and Wilson would be modern day examples.

Not sure how Fields will turn out but they traded up to get him and were not a terrible team

[smuggler]

Mahomes did end up starting in his rookie season, but only one game.

[texaspackerbacker]

Russell Wilson in the third round was more luck than anything else when he turned out to be "NFL-ready". Ditto that to some extent with Mahomes, who of course, was drafted after a couple other seemingly more polished QBs. The best example of all, though, was overlooked: Ol' Jerry Jones picking up Dak Prescott in the 4th after a lot of people expected him to use a first round pick on a QB.

Call it drafting skill or good or bad luck in each of these cases as well as in the many busts, it is far from an exact science to snag a successful pro QB based on what he did in college.

Bottom line, it was monumentally STUPID to move up in the first round to draft Love - for reasons way beyond the most obvious one, still having the GOAT who will still be good for many more years.

[smuggler]

I don't know about that tex. Time will tell. In order for the Packers to get a similar quality QB in this years' draft, they'd have had to move up all the way to 11 to draft Fields. Who knows when a QB of Love's caliber will be available in '22 or '23. It kind of makes me doubt your ability to evaluate players or the NFL landscape at all, honestly, when you call drafting Love stupid...

[Bretsky]

I don't know about that tex. Time will tell. In order for the Packers to get a similar quality QB in this years' draft, they'd have had to move up all the way to 11 to draft Fields. Who knows when a QB of Love's caliber will be available in '22 or '23. It kind of makes me doubt your ability to evaluate players or the NFL landscape at all, honestly, when you call drafting Love stupid...



Are you saying Love will be better than Mac Jones ?

Why are you consdidering Love equal to Fields as a prospect ?

[Bretsky]

I don't know about that tex. Time will tell. In order for the Packers to get a similar quality QB in this years' draft, they'd have had to move up all the way to 11 to draft Fields. Who knows when a QB of Love's caliber will be available in '22 or '23. It kind of makes me doubt your ability to evaluate players or the NFL landscape at all, honestly, when you call drafting Love stupid...


I'd add this; there are tons of people/announcers/former GM's.....who have questioned the timing and what we gave up to draft Jordan Love. They are not all stupid

[texaspackerbacker]

I don't know about that tex. Time will tell. In order for the Packers to get a similar quality QB in this years' draft, they'd have had to move up all the way to 11 to draft Fields. Who knows when a QB of Love's caliber will be available in '22 or '23. It kind of makes me doubt your ability to evaluate players or the NFL landscape at all, honestly, when you call drafting Love stupid...

Who says we would even need or want a "similar quality QB in this years' draft"? That's the whole point. Boyle, Benkert, Bortles, or any other grade B QB would be perfectly good enough to hold the Packers proverbial clipboard. 3 or 4 years from now, you start shopping around for 3rd or 4th rounders to see if you can get lucky. And if none of that bunch is good enough when Rodgers finally does retire - ideally 5 years plus from now, then if the rest of the team is still viable, you do like the Rams and get the 2027 or so equivalent of Stafford.

How does Love compare to Fields (who I don't particularly like and who will likely flounder because of the team he is on) or Jones (who I don't know much about but will likely seem better than he is because of the team he is on)? Who knows/who cares? I expect that whatever Love becomes, it will be for some other team.

As for saying it was STUPID to draft Love in the first round much less move up to do so, I say that AGAIN primarily for two reasons: First and foremost, because Rodgers, I firmly believe, even 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or more years from now will still be better - a lot better - than the best we could ever hope Love turns into, and secondly, because you have about as good a chance of grabbing a promising 2nd, 3rd, or 4th rounder developing into a Wilson or Prescott level star than you do with a high first round pick who might very well be another Goff or Carr or Trubisky.

[smuggler]

I'd add this; there are tons of people/announcers/former GM's.....who have questioned the timing and what we gave up to draft Jordan Love. They are not all stupid

A lot of them are.

[Sparkey]

8 years ?

Rodgers will be lucky to even come close to repeating last year.

[Sparkey]

8 years ?

Rodgers will be lucky to even come close to repeating last year.

[Teamcheez1]

I can’t stop laughing. Rodgers will be lucky to still be playing 3 years from now.

[Bretsky]

8 years ?

Rodgers will be lucky to even come close to repeating last year.


I would not say 8 years. But 3 to 5 might be practical if he takes care of himself like Brady. He has a rocket arm, is in great shape, and is mobile so he has those things working for him.

[Bretsky]

I can’t stop laughing. Rodgers will be lucky to still be playing 3 years from now.


Are you in the middle of the Love Train then ?

[smuggler]

Being realistic about Rodgers does not immediately make someone a passenger on that train.

[call_me_ishmael]

Rodgers is *better* when he plays in an immobile fashion and gets the ball out quickly. Given that - why couldn’t he play for quite a while longer? When things go bad and he looks like crap are when he tries to be mobile and extend plays.

[call_me_ishmael]

I don't know about that tex. Time will tell. In order for the Packers to get a similar quality QB in this years' draft, they'd have had to move up all the way to 11 to draft Fields. Who knows when a QB of Love's caliber will be available in '22 or '23. It kind of makes me doubt your ability to evaluate players or the NFL landscape at all, honestly, when you call drafting Love stupid...

There are bottom of round one guys like love every year. He is not a special prospect or an elite WB prospect by anyone’s definition except for Chris Simms.

[smuggler]

Drafting a mid-first talent like Love that falls to the end of the first is not the same as drafting a mid-second WR at the end of the first, and neither are elite players that can contribute right now. Justin Jefferson, who the Packers would have preferred to draft, was not available and so the Packers took the last remaining blue chip player with the trade they already had in place.

Conflating what we could have taken there for Jefferson is what has people with these inane takes looking like fools. Takes like the one you just shat out, CMI. Just stop. You look like a damn retard.

[texaspackerbacker]

The whiners and detractors can whine and detract all they want, but the GOAT will still be the GOAT a long long time, and it will be a damn shame if it isn't in Green Bay. Ya'all Love lovers can have him hahahaha. He's not a piece of crap, but he's not and never will be the quality of Aaron Rodgers, not now, not 1 or 2 or 3 years, etc. I wouldn't bet that Rodgers actually decides to play 8 more years (or more), although I certainly wouldn't rule it out. What I would bet on is that Rodgers even that far in the future would be a better QB than Jordan Love - that's no knock on Love, as I'd say the same for just about anybody else, save for a couple or three legitimate possibilities to have almost Rodgers-like careers.

Claiming to be "realistic" is the realm of balls-less anti-homer fools. If the shoe fits .......

[smuggler]

He's not a piece of crap, but he's not and never will be the quality of Aaron Rodgers

It is a valid position that this statement might apply to every other quarterback to ever lace up cleats in the NFL, and it certainly applies to all except a handful of others.



Claiming to be "realistic" is the realm of balls-less anti-homer fools. If the shoe fits .......

You're pathetic. Keep your damn shoe.

[texaspackerbacker]

You indeed stumbled onto an acorn of truth hahahahaha. That's exactly what I've been saying, and exactly why it was so bonehead STUPID to draft him and stir up the mess that Gutekunst did, accidentally or otherwise, and I lean toward otherwise.

[call_me_ishmael]

Drafting a mid-first talent like Love that falls to the end of the first is not the same as drafting a mid-second WR at the end of the first, and neither are elite players that can contribute right now. Justin Jefferson, who the Packers would have preferred to draft, was not available and so the Packers took the last remaining blue chip player with the trade they already had in place.

Conflating what we could have taken there for Jefferson is what has people with these inane takes looking like fools. Takes like the one you just shat out, CMI. Just stop. You look like a damn retard.

Disagree, and I really don't think I do. Literally no one except for Chris Simms, Harvey and apparently you think Love was a top notch prospect. I don't see it, personally, but I also haven't watched the games like Harvey. I think it's very likely he wasn't a first rounder this year - in a much better QB draft year. To compare him to Justin Fields is laughable - sorry - JFields is one of _the most elite prospects_ out of high school ever. Love was a 2 star prospect who didn't even start in high school until his senior year. Hard work goes a long way but the odds are this dude is not another JJ Watt type meteoric rise.

Love can make all the throws - but so can everyone else drafted into the NFL high. It takes more than that.

Aaron Rodgers hit the nail on the head in his interview last year with Kyle Brandt. GM's draft their guys and want to play their guys because it gives them time. I really don't think anyone believes that Jordan Love is likely to win more football games for the Packers over the next 5 years, so to me the move makes very little sense.

[smuggler]

Do you even understand how star ratings work for high school football programs? I was a two-star recruit, and I trust even you can understand my meaning and how comparing or referencing star ratings is laughable in this context.

Fields would be drafted ahead of Love in the same draft class, I'd think, because of the college track record. But they're on the same tier of pro prospect. One tier above Mac Jones. You might not have the experience to understand how valuable it is to get a guy like Love where we got him, and I'm sure you're jaded because of seeing so much play from Favre and Rodgers over the last three decades, but it's hard to argue with the value we got at the pick.

I also do believe that drafting Love reignited Rodgers' competitive fire last season. If we'd come through and beat TB and won a championship last season - a very near thing - drafting Love would have been worth it just for that. I'm not saying this is a primary cause. I'm just saying it's a non-zero element to consider.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Disagree, and I really don't think I do. Literally no one except for Chris Simms, Harvey and apparently you think Love was a top notch prospect.

We’re hardly the only ones who think Love has a chance, but I’ll take full credit when he pans out.

[texaspackerbacker]

And I'll take most of the credit - a little bit shared with CMI hahahaha - if he flounders or at best is fairly mediocre. HOPEFULLY that future will be with some other team, and we'll just keep sailing along with Rodgers.

[smuggler]

I'm a fan of Rodgers. If I had to pick, I would rather we let Rodgers just play as long as he was effective. BUT, that doesn't also preclude the organization from taking steps to safeguard against the eventuality of his loss of skill, availability, or both.

[texaspackerbacker]

Doing that at the right time and in a sensible way, yeah. But STUPIDLY trying to force out the GOAT QB somewhere between a few and many years too early just shouldn't happen. Gutekunst has been generally a good GM in every context other than this one - which is kinda like the old line, "but other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?" If he succeeds in his STUPIDITY, he needs to get run out of Green Bay despite any other good he has done.

I actually advocated drafting Lamar Jackson a few years ago because he could have been used as a change of pace running QB for a few plays - the Taysom Hill thing in a MUCH better way. Whether we could have kept him around until Rodgers finally gets less effective is doubtful, but at least we could have had a useful added dimension in the mean time. Love ain't that at all - not even remotely close athletically to Jackson (if anybody at all is). He's just a waste if we never use him, and the alternative is MUCH worse - the Gutekunst STUPIDITY, forcing Rodgers out and losing with Love.

[run pMc]

Love is on the Packers. I'm rooting for him.
I'm hardly on the bandwagon yet, though.

Objectively speaking, when you have shit for QB depth and your starting QB will be 40 when his contract expires, there's nothing wrong with picking a talented QB who is there in R1 whereabouts he's projected to be.
Losing Rodgers because of the Love pick would be dumb.

[call_me_ishmael]

In my opinion, the best chance at getting another star and ten year run is to suck for a year and win like two games the year AR. That is the recipe to continue being a contender IMO eg Andy Luck. Otherwise you could be suck in the worst place - pretty good enough to be somewhat competitive but not good enough to ever do anything meaningful.

[texaspackerbacker]

Maybe so, but that is unacceptable to me. How many of ya'all would be happy with the team bottoming out in order to draft Burrow or Lawrence - whoever is that type guy coming out in whatever number of years?

As I have said, the best scenario other than riding Rodgers 'til his arm and legs fall off would be to pull off a trade - Love plus a draft pick to get somebody like Stafford for a few years and then get very lucky with a QB draft pick (or maybe go the Favre route and give a first rounder for a promising young QB who isn't quite as unknown as a draft pick).

I just hope this is all theoretical, and at some point, Gutekunst comes to his senses and reups Rodgers for a long term extension.

[RashanGary]

If they don’t LOVE, Love they sure could re-up Rodgers.

In Murphy’s recent take 5 (where he takes 5 questions from fans), Murphy talked about teams not winning Super Bowls with the highest paid quarterbacks. It’s usually underpaid QBs who win. They might be looking at this as the last dance and then trying to win one with an underpaid Love.

The Packers should have the choice whether they want to move on or stay with what they’ve got. I don’t see why they would be stuck in one direction or the other right now.

I hope Love is looking like a star and they move on just because I want 15 more years. But I’m not sure that’s the situation so I’m more than open to Rodgers playing till 43 years old in Green Bay.

[call_me_ishmael]

That's a narrative that isn't founded on reality, though. Unless of course you're assuming that Tom Brady is underpaid or whatever or on a rookie contract. He's unusual in that his wife is a billionaire.

Brady beat Mahomes - Both paid a premium
Mahomes beat Jimmy G - Mahomes paid immediately after, Jimmy G was highly paid
Brady beat Goff - Goff Paid immediately after
Eagles Guy beats Brady - Yes, this one counts I guess but Eagles Guy never did anything after
Brady beat Matt Ryan - both highly paid
Manning beat Newton - Both highly paid
Brady beat Wilson - Wilson paid immediately after
Wilson beat Manning - Yes, this one qualifies for sure
Joe Flacco beat Colin Kapernick - Flacco got paid immediately after it, Kapernick never did anything after
Eli beat Brady - Both highly paid
Rodgers beat Roethlisberger - Both highly paid
Brees beat Manning - Both highly paid
Roethlisberger beat Warner - Both highly paid
Manning beat Brady - Both highly paid
Manning beat Grossman - Grossman qualifies although he never did anything after


In general, the data clearly does not support that this happens often. This is Murphy setting a narrative. "Own the future". But wait, couldn't they just own the present by paying their star? Whole thing is dumb.

It takes two to tango on re-upping Rodgers. At this point, I think it's abundantly clear that Rodgers feels it's too little too late. I can see where a normal person is like "Yeah I would just be happy to have their job and happy with whatever I can get" but that's not how someone thinks in their position. This off-season or maybe even earlier they will either re-up Rodgers with something that locks him up for at least 4 years and w/ the plan to trade Love either this season or next or they will trade Rodgers.

[smuggler]

Brady beat Mahomes - Both paid a premium
Mahomes beat Jimmy G - Mahomes paid immediately after, Jimmy G was highly paid
Brady beat Goff - Goff Paid immediately after
Eagles Guy beats Brady - Yes, this one counts I guess but Eagles Guy never did anything after
Brady beat Matt Ryan - both highly paid
Manning beat Newton - Both highly paid
Brady beat Wilson - Wilson paid immediately after
Wilson beat Manning - Yes, this one qualifies for sure
Joe Flacco beat Colin Kapernick - Flacco got paid immediately after it, Kapernick never did anything after
Eli beat Brady - Both highly paid
Rodgers beat Roethlisberger - Both highly paid
Brees beat Manning - Both highly paid
Roethlisberger beat Warner - Both highly paid
Manning beat Brady - Both highly paid
Manning beat Grossman - Grossman qualifies although he never did anything after.

Including Brady on this list is slanting things unrealistically. The level of play from your defense you get with Brady is not realistic for any QB in NFL history. His entire career is an outlier, honestly. Take in to account that Brady's contract starting last season was 2/$50... that's actually under market value, also. And most teams are not able to build an incredible roster and just import a high quality QB like the Bucs did. That is not typical of the NFL at large or how the Packers operate, specifically.

If the Packers want to commit to Rodgers and Adams, the two of them can decide to take a home team discount to stay long-ish term, and there will be no fans that gripe about it, outside of outright Jordan Love fans. If he leaves and we only get four years of reasonably decent backup QB play and a 3rd round comp, then I don't think we can really bitch about it because (1) it means that Rodgers is still playing at a high level, and (2) it means we got a crack at a third straight HOF player at the cost of a 1st minus a 3rd round pick, which is great value.

[call_me_ishmael]

It's not slanting anything - it's providing the actual real world data without any bias at all. It also takes into account the opposition, too. The reality is not very many rookie contract QBs make it, and if they do they get paid basically immediately after so the window is very short.

[texaspackerbacker]

CMI, nothing Rodgers has said lately is remotely like this - "It takes two to tango on re-upping Rodgers. At this point, I think it's abundantly clear that Rodgers feels it's too little too late." Other than the off-season farce generated by media pukes, to which Rodgers probably sarcastically replied something about wanting to be traded, all he has said is he wants to finish his career in Green Bay.

A "home town discount" for Rodgers and Adams? Before all of Gutekunst and Murphy's dumbassery, that might have happened. Now, even if he doesn't need the money, it's quite possible he wants to get more money just to stick it to the leaders who maybe he perceives as fucking him over. Adams also was not sounding like he was in the mood to settle for a discount. That probably is all irrelevant, though, because the cap situation is greatly overblown as a problem. It's gonna go through the roof next season.

Brady's super model wife is a billionaire? I'd buy multi-millionaire, but not billions. Rodgers' wife is a movie star, which probably isn't that far off from a super model. Brady doesn't get max pay, but he is up there pretty close. After all, he's the second GOAT.

I didn't actually hear Murphy say that gem about highly paid QBs, but would anybody like to consider that maybe he was being sarcastic? The alternative is that he really is that STUPID.

[Jaire]

That's a narrative that isn't founded on reality, though. Unless of course you're assuming that Tom Brady is underpaid or whatever or on a rookie contract. He's unusual in that his wife is a billionaire.

Brady beat Mahomes - Both paid a premium
Mahomes beat Jimmy G - Mahomes paid immediately after, Jimmy G was highly paid
Brady beat Goff - Goff Paid immediately after
Eagles Guy beats Brady - Yes, this one counts I guess but Eagles Guy never did anything after
Brady beat Matt Ryan - both highly paid
Manning beat Newton - Both highly paid
Brady beat Wilson - Wilson paid immediately after
Wilson beat Manning - Yes, this one qualifies for sure
Joe Flacco beat Colin Kapernick - Flacco got paid immediately after it, Kapernick never did anything after
Eli beat Brady - Both highly paid
Rodgers beat Roethlisberger - Both highly paid
Brees beat Manning - Both highly paid
Roethlisberger beat Warner - Both highly paid
Manning beat Brady - Both highly paid
Manning beat Grossman - Grossman qualifies although he never did anything after


In general, the data clearly does not support that this happens often. This is Murphy setting a narrative. "Own the future". But wait, couldn't they just own the present by paying their star? Whole thing is dumb.

It takes two to tango on re-upping Rodgers. At this point, I think it's abundantly clear that Rodgers feels it's too little too late. I can see where a normal person is like "Yeah I would just be happy to have their job and happy with whatever I can get" but that's not how someone thinks in their position. This off-season or maybe even earlier they will either re-up Rodgers with something that locks him up for at least 4 years and w/ the plan to trade Love either this season or next or they will trade Rodgers.

If Gute believes having a second rate QB is the key to success, he needs to have a sit down with SF and the Ram's brass. Why they lost. Also they had years of high picks to build those rosters.

The real reason it's hard to stack success is that continually winning gets you low draft picks. Only BB figured out how to overcome that. Gute/Murf is not BB.

Rodgers has not been given a deal. The clowns don't want him. It seems the new strategy is to get a top ten pick for four years and build an all star front seven like TB & SF. Brilliant.

[call_me_ishmael]

CMI, nothing Rodgers has said lately is remotely like this - "It takes two to tango on re-upping Rodgers. At this point, I think it's abundantly clear that Rodgers feels it's too little too late." Other than the off-season farce generated by media pukes, to which Rodgers probably sarcastically replied something about wanting to be traded, all he has said is he wants to finish his career in Green Bay.[quote]

Maybe, but he did reject a contract "extension" aka more money with no more guaranteed years. He was clearly pretty PO'd in that press conference.

[quote]Brady's super model wife is a billionaire? I'd buy multi-millionaire, but not billions. Rodgers' wife is a movie star, which probably isn't that far off from a super model. Brady doesn't get max pay, but he is up there pretty close. After all, he's the second GOAT.

Looks like most of the data on Gisele is more in the ~700M range than 1B+, but yeah, she is far wealthier than Rodgers B-lister wife. Most estimates from searching put her at around 12M, so ~1.75% of Gisele's net worth lol.


I didn't actually hear Murphy say that gem about highly paid QBs, but would anybody like to consider that maybe he was being sarcastic? The alternative is that he really is that STUPID.

Can't speak to that. Smuggler above is just mad because the list and data doesn't support the narrative. The stark reality is Jordan Love is a low-level prospect out of HS who struggled against not-very-good competition in college. Maybe he will become a good player - I hope he does - but I would just say the indications point against that at this point.

[bobblehead]

That's a narrative that isn't founded on reality, though. Unless of course you're assuming that Tom Brady is underpaid or whatever or on a rookie contract. He's unusual in that his wife is a billionaire.

Brady beat Mahomes - Both paid a premium
Mahomes beat Jimmy G - Mahomes paid immediately after, Jimmy G was highly paid
Brady beat Goff - Goff Paid immediately after
Eagles Guy beats Brady - Yes, this one counts I guess but Eagles Guy never did anything after
Brady beat Matt Ryan - both highly paid
Manning beat Newton - Both highly paid
Brady beat Wilson - Wilson paid immediately after
Wilson beat Manning - Yes, this one qualifies for sure
Joe Flacco beat Colin Kapernick - Flacco got paid immediately after it, Kapernick never did anything after
Eli beat Brady - Both highly paid
Rodgers beat Roethlisberger - Both highly paid
Brees beat Manning - Both highly paid
Roethlisberger beat Warner - Both highly paid
Manning beat Brady - Both highly paid
Manning beat Grossman - Grossman qualifies although he never did anything after


In general, the data clearly does not support that this happens often. This is Murphy setting a narrative. "Own the future". But wait, couldn't they just own the present by paying their star? Whole thing is dumb.

It takes two to tango on re-upping Rodgers. At this point, I think it's abundantly clear that Rodgers feels it's too little too late. I can see where a normal person is like "Yeah I would just be happy to have their job and happy with whatever I can get" but that's not how someone thinks in their position. This off-season or maybe even earlier they will either re-up Rodgers with something that locks him up for at least 4 years and w/ the plan to trade Love either this season or next or they will trade Rodgers.

2 things. First, Brady is perennially underpaid, as such he generally has a top 5 defense. Second, just because a QB got immediately paid AFTER he won as underpaid supports the opposite side of the argument you are trying to make.

Edit: To make it more clear. Maholmes immediately paid. Hasn't won since (yea, I know, yet to be seen). Goff paid...Huge mistake and Rams are in cap hell desperate to trade the future to win after that contract. Wilson paid. Defense fell apart. Team hasn't done shit since. Flacco paid...need I say more. Kapernick paid...need I say more. Eli won his first Owl on his rookie deal (6y for 54m) and his second while the impact had not hit the cap yet. He was not highly paid for either win. Brady made $25 million for his win last year...you call that highly paid for todays QB??

Your data is really supporting the other side of the argument. I'm not even sure the cap hit for Rodgers hit until after he won his and then never won another.

[call_me_ishmael]

What is underpaid? This (https://www.businessinsider.com/tom-brady-contract-discounts-patriots-bargain-2018-7) article makes the argument he sacrificed 60M in contracts over 20 season relative to his peers. Assuming the rookie contract stayed the same, 16 years. 60M over 16 years is 3.75M per year sacrificed - that is hardly enough to sign a single veteran let alone build an elite defense! It's just a well-run organization.

No, the data supports that the people who get to the big game are almost always highly paid players because it takes an elite QB to win in the vast majority of cases. This idea to have a rookie contract QB or journeymen backup and win the whole thing because you can fortify every other position is NOT supported by the data. There are countless examples every single year, and very, very few have done it, so... I guess if I were running an org, I'd take my chances with the star QB since that statistically gives me the best probability of winning.

[Upnorth]

Ish, look at your numbers again. I consider top 10 in cap to be expensive.
On that only
2020 Brady
2018 Brady
2016 Ryan
2015 manning
2013 manning
2011 both
2010 ben
2009 manning
2008 rothlesberger is 11th highest so borderline
2007 manning
15 years 11 expensive qbs, I think the data is more supportive of the opposite if your point. That includes an 11th highest paid.

Cap numbers from overthecap.com

[call_me_ishmael]

Ish, look at your numbers again. I consider top 10 in cap to be expensive.
On that only
2020 Brady
2018 Brady
2016 Ryan
2015 manning
2013 manning
2011 both
2010 ben
2009 manning
2008 rothlesberger is 11th highest so borderline
2007 manning
15 years 11 expensive qbs, I think the data is more supportive of the opposite if your point. That includes an 11th highest paid.

Cap numbers from overthecap.com

Contracts are fluid, though. Year 4 of an existing 5/6 year deal is probably not a top 5-10 deal anymore for most players. They are likely to get extended after the year and be back in the top 5-10.

The greater question should be to look at who was on rookie contracts, and I think looking at that list only Goff, Wilson and Grossman were. Wilson and Goff were immediately paid after so they essentially had a one year window on the rookie deal. It's not like they were there for 75-80% of their rookie contracts - rather they had a one year chance to win before making the big QB money.

[Jaire]

If Gute believes having a second rate QB is the key to success, he needs to have a sit down with SF and the Ram's brass. Why they lost. Also they had years of high picks to build those rosters.

The real reason it's hard to stack success is that continually winning gets you low draft picks. Only BB figured out how to overcome that. Gute/Murf is not BB.

Rodgers has not been given a deal. The clowns don't want him. It seems the new strategy is to get a top ten pick for four years and build an all star front seven like TB & SF. Brilliant.


Edit: It's not why SF lost. Shanahan took the blame for that. And Mahomes had a lot to do with it but he's top 2 QB in the league. San Fran had years of top picks. You don't get those without losing, a lot. Tampa too. That said, MLF's system is more friendly to QBs of non HoF talent. Still GB is not talented enough to win without a premier QB.

Edit for real: Whoops. I thought I edited my post.

[SudsMcBucky]

Still GB is not talented enough to win without a premier QB.

.

Maybe, but the theory is that if they rid themselves of that huge QB contract, they COULD afford the pieces around to be talented enough.

[smuggler]

GB is not talented enough to win without a premier QB.

TB won with a Tier 2 QB last season and the Chiefs lost with a Tier 1 QB. But in general I feel their rosters from 1-53 are one tier ahead of GB as of last season. We're very top-heavy.

[RashanGary]

Maybe, but the theory is that if they rid themselves of that huge QB contract, they COULD afford the pieces around to be talented enough.

Two more 15 mil per season contracts help. Could have two really good DL for that price. 2 stud DL alongside Clark would make us a top defense. And then if Love performed at a high level, that’s when it happens.

[Sparkey]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nfl/2019/1/2/18164980/nfl-playoffs-quarterbacks-salary-cap-kirk-cousins-patrick-mahomes

The Ringer - 2019 article

[smuggler]

I'm not angry, CMI, I just think you need to go watch a TedEd video about statistical relevance and re-evaluate the data that you set on the table. You're drawing conclusions from a small and drastically non-representative sample that you're looking at in the wrong light to begin with.

[call_me_ishmael]

I'm not angry, CMI, I just think you need to go watch a TedEd video about statistical relevance and re-evaluate the data that you set on the table. You're drawing conclusions from a small and drastically non-representative sample that you're looking at in the wrong light to begin with.

This isn’t an exit poll of 2000 people out of 100M voting. This is the actual real world data including both the winners (Brady) AND the losers. Affordable QBs rarely get to the super bowl let alone win it.

[bobblehead]

Ish, look at your numbers again. I consider top 10 in cap to be expensive.
On that only
2020 Brady
2018 Brady
2016 Ryan
2015 manning
2013 manning
2011 both
2010 ben
2009 manning
2008 rothlesberger is 11th highest so borderline
2007 manning
15 years 11 expensive qbs, I think the data is more supportive of the opposite if your point. That includes an 11th highest paid.

Cap numbers from overthecap.com

Brady on year 1 of a 2/50 contract was top 10 in 2020...how is that possible?

[bobblehead]

This isn’t an exit poll of 2000 people out of 100M voting. This is the actual real world data including both the winners (Brady) AND the losers. Affordable QBs rarely get to the super bowl let alone win it.

Ture. Also true. Highly paid QBs rarely get to the Owl let alone win it. So...its really hard to in the Owl.

[Upnorth]

Brady on year 1 of a 2/50 contract was top 10 in 2020...how is that possible?

He was tied for 5th

So approximately 1/3rd of sb representatives and 1/3rd of the winners were top 3rd of qb contracts. To me that indicates qb quality is overrated and team quality is underrated.
Very small sample size but it conforms to my personal belief which is that and count but so does the team. Also important is captain obvious makes an obvious statement to people that read past headlines.

If I was retired i would do this analysis on oline and d line sending as well. Love to see how strong that correlation might be.

[call_me_ishmael]

Ture. Also true. Highly paid QBs rarely get to the Owl let alone win it. So...its really hard to in the Owl.

Very true, but the data supports that if you want to get to it and lose to Brady your best chance is to have a highly paid, top notch QB.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Very true, but the data supports that if you want to get to it and lose to Brady your best chance is to have a highly paid, top notch QB.

Nothing in your stats shows this. You can’t count QBs on cheap contracts that got paid right after they went to a Super Bowl as guys with big contracts. Makes no sense.

[call_me_ishmael]

Nothing in your stats shows this. You can’t count QBs on cheap contracts that got paid right after they went to a Super Bowl as guys with big contracts. Makes no sense.

I didn’t do that. When Russ won the super bowl before getting extended for example that counts as a cheap QB. 90% of super bowl appearances featured a QB not on cheap contracts.

[Upnorth]

I didn’t do that. When Russ won the super bowl before getting extended for example that counts as a cheap QB. 90% of super bowl appearances featured a QB not on cheap contracts.

67% of super bowls had a qb appear on not cheap contracts in the last 15 years. Not 90%.
So a full 33% had 0 expensive representation and 67% were won by a qb that was relatively cheap.

[Sparkey]

Are we just looking at $$$ or as a percentage of the cap ?

Because $$$ and cap hits are rarely the same.

[Upnorth]

Are we just looking at $$$ or as a percentage of the cap ?

Because $$$ and cap hits are rarely the same.

I'm looking at cap hit. $ are not what matters. Cap hit is.

[bobblehead]

I'm looking at cap hit. $ are not what matters. Cap hit is.

Exactly. Which is why even a guy who just signed a 5 year 150 million contract is probably "cheap" in terms of cap hit.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/quarterback/#:~:text=Cap%20Allocation%3A%20Active%20Roster%20% 20%20%20Rank,%20%2014.55%25%20%2055%20more%20rows% 20

This is a good example. Look at where Brady lands on this one. 14th in cap hit. Maholmes is 23rd.

[bobblehead]

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/2020/cap-hit/quarterback/

This one is sortable by year. Maholmes was 32nd...YEP YOU READ THAT RIGHT. 32nd in cap hit. Brady was in fact 6th, but that was a different situation. He went to a team that was young and loaded from recent losing seasons. Its not like he was in year 3 of a contract and had just lead the team to 4 straight 12 win seasons.

In 2019 Jimmy G was 15th and Maholmes was 32nd also. So the morale of the story is you can't have a monster cap hit and win the Owl. Watch what happens in 2 years when Maholmes becomes the 2nd or 3rd cap hit. They will begin bleeding talent and still win because he is great, but getting over that hump will become increasingly difficult.

[RashanGary]

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/2020/cap-hit/quarterback/

This one is sortable by year. Maholmes was 32nd...YEP YOU READ THAT RIGHT. 32nd in cap hit. Brady was in fact 6th, but that was a different situation. He went to a team that was young and loaded from recent losing seasons. Its not like he was in year 3 of a contract and had just lead the team to 4 straight 12 win seasons.

In 2019 Jimmy G was 15th and Maholmes was 32nd also. So the morale of the story is you can't have a monster cap hit and win the Owl. Watch what happens in 2 years when Maholmes becomes the 2nd or 3rd cap hit. They will begin bleeding talent and still win because he is great, but getting over that hump will become increasingly difficult.

This is the observable truth. Once a QB makes it near the top in salary, his team doesn’t win championships. Those top 5 cap hits hurt.

[Upnorth]

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/2020/cap-hit/quarterback/

This one is sortable by year. Maholmes was 32nd...YEP YOU READ THAT RIGHT. 32nd in cap hit. Brady was in fact 6th, but that was a different situation. He went to a team that was young and loaded from recent losing seasons. Its not like he was in year 3 of a contract and had just lead the team to 4 straight 12 win seasons.

In 2019 Jimmy G was 15th and Maholmes was 32nd also. So the morale of the story is you can't have a monster cap hit and win the Owl. Watch what happens in 2 years when Maholmes becomes the 2nd or 3rd cap hit. They will begin bleeding talent and still win because he is great, but getting over that hump will become increasingly difficult.

Not 100% accurate. Brady and manning both won while being top 5 cap hits. So it only really stacks the deck against you. The difference between top 5 and lower is one really good player elsewhere

[RashanGary]

Not 100% accurate. Brady and manning both won while being top 5 cap hits. So it only really stacks the deck against you. The difference between top 5 and lower is one really good player elsewhere

A team can have a top 5 QB hit and be in a stage where they have a bunch of rookie deals else where that put you over the top. Or just do a really good job managing the cap in every other way.

Having a top 5 QB contract doesn’t stop you. It makes you have to be better everywhere else. And once in a while a team will overcome it.

There are no hard rules. It just makes it a little more challenging to have a top paid QB on the books. But obviously having a top QB helps too. So it’s just that balance.

[call_me_ishmael]

67% of super bowls had a qb appear on not cheap contracts in the last 15 years. Not 90%.
So a full 33% had 0 expensive representation and 67% were won by a qb that was relatively cheap.

Not sure where you getting those numbers from but I will double check. Sounds unlikely based on common sense.

[call_me_ishmael]

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/2020/cap-hit/quarterback/

This one is sortable by year. Maholmes was 32nd...YEP YOU READ THAT RIGHT. 32nd in cap hit. Brady was in fact 6th, but that was a different situation. He went to a team that was young and loaded from recent losing seasons. Its not like he was in year 3 of a contract and had just lead the team to 4 straight 12 win seasons.

In 2019 Jimmy G was 15th and Maholmes was 32nd also. So the morale of the story is you can't have a monster cap hit and win the Owl. Watch what happens in 2 years when Maholmes becomes the 2nd or 3rd cap hit. They will begin bleeding talent and still win because he is great, but getting over that hump will become increasingly difficult.

Obviously. I think we’re all saying the same thing essentially. Jimmy G has a big contract though it just so happened the cap hit was small in that particular year. Will be bigger orhe years, all balances out. They have no chance with Jimmy G and they know it. He is a prime example of the type of B or C player you want to avoid at the QB spot. A or move on.org. Relentlessly cycle through them until you have a star. You aren’t likely statistically to win anything meaningful without one.

[call_me_ishmael]

This is the observable truth. Once a QB makes it near the top in salary, his team doesn’t win championships. Those top 5 cap hits hurt.

This is so stupid. Give me a break. For one Brady totally taints the data in that sense. Maybe look at conference championship appearances. Brady will obviously get his. Unquestionably he had an under the table deal with Pats and has it to this day. Unqurstionably and obviously.

[call_me_ishmael]

Having good players at key positions that have far below market rate contracts tends to give you more resources. Obviously.

[RashanGary]

Having good players at key positions that have far below market rate contracts tends to give you more resources. Obviously.

Yep. It’s a lot of variables that go into a championship. Top QB play is good. Top contracts make the rest harder. There are no black lines in this. It’s grey area. Obviously getting a rookie deal player to develop ahead of schedule is a big advantage. Having a top player as the top cap hit is an advantage with an offsetting disadvantage. Ultimately it’s the whole roster and lots of variables.

[RashanGary]

I think you can win with Eli Manning or Aaron Rodgers or even Joe Flacco depending on the rest of the roster. Usually there are about 12 quarterbacks good enough to win it. It comes down to how the whole roster is constructed and then having one of those top 12 guys at QB

[RashanGary]

You can have a top Qb with a top hit like Green Bay and push things into the future and give yourself a good shot right now. Or you can have Lamar on a rookie deal and win. Or you can get Brady on a discount like he likes to do. There are lots of ways and lots of QBs who could win it.

[Fritz]

You can have a top Qb with a top hit like Green Bay and push things into the future and give yourself a good shot right now. Or you can have Lamar on a rookie deal and win. Or you can get Brady on a discount like he likes to do. There are lots of ways and lots of QBs who could win it.

You can call me Ray. Or you can call me Raymond. Or you can call me Jay. Or you can call me Jayson.

Just don't call me late for dinner.

[RashanGary]

All aboard, coming aboard. The Jordan Love bandwagon is about to leave the dock.

[King Friday]

I'm still on board. I think Love has the potential to become a strong starting QB. That doesn't mean he's going to lead us to a win against the Chiefs, but I expect him to play well for his first NFL start.

[Bretsky]

I'm still on board. I think Love has the potential to become a strong starting QB. That doesn't mean he's going to lead us to a win against the Chiefs, but I expect him to play well for his first NFL start.


If Love plays remotely well they should win

[Bretsky]

All aboard, coming aboard. The Jordan Love bandwagon is about to leave the dock.


Laughs at RG who is going out free drugs to anybody willing to get on the wagon :)

[Freak Out]

Love does not have Covid. Love reigns supreme.

[George Cumby]

CHOO-CHOO!!

[Bretsky]

PRESENT, or FUTURE PACKERRAT PARTY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s5xsVHOJQs

[QBME]

All aboard, coming aboard. The Jordan Love bandwagon is about to leave the dock.

Bandwagon leaving the dock?

We're sunk.

[Fritz]

Bandwagon leaving the dock?

We're sunk.

One of the more subtle and clever posts I've seen.

Thank you.

[bobblehead]

I'm all aboard. I'm hoping that he looks like the future. The difference between him looking great and looking not great is at least 3 first round picks and an added decade of winning football. If he flops we get another 3-4 years of Rodgers dominance, no picks and the we have to pray that we can hit on the next "heir apparent"

[texaspackerbacker]

I can't say I WANT Love to flop - he's a Packer after all, but even if he was as good or better than any of ya'all dream he could be, he would NOT be as good as Rodgers, not now, not 3-4 years from now, probably not 5-7 or even more years from now. Virtually nobody would be. If Love looks even a little bit good, certain dumbasses are inevitably gonna be whining about moving on from Rodgers, and it might push Gutekunst in that idiotic direction too. It's a rotten depressing situation any way you look at it.

What I expect in this game is that Love will be ok, maybe even borderline good, but it won't be enough for the Packers to win even against a team that is getting on the downside like K.C. Why then could the Cowboys for example go on the road and win against the Vikings with Cooper Rush instead of Dak? Because the Cowboys are a lot more talented team overall than the Packers outside of the QB and because as good as Dak is, he is still way short of Aaron Rodgers.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I agree, Tex, but I don't mind seeing what Love can do for a couple games. Packers still in good shape if they drop a couple games. AR can use a little humbling.

[scharpcheddar]

I could care less about him. He's not the next big anything.

[Sparkey]

I could care less about him. He's not the next big anything.

So your saying you care. :-|:cnf:

Since he will be the starting qb for my favorite football team, I hope he plays well, but he may not. He obviously lacks experience so this will be a great chance for him to get a feel of the real speed of an NFL game. As far as what he could become, who knows. There were a few years were no one thought Rodgers would be much of anything.

I am excited to see how it goes.

[RashanGary]

I’m really excited to see him play. Guys like Mahommes and Dak have played well early. There’s a chance we get a monster performance out of him and the future would look bright. I’m hopeful.

If he stinks, like bobble says, then you go back to Rodgers and try to hash out a 4 year extension.

And then you move to draft another high pick as soon as something slips again.

[Sparkey]

I think something like below would be a GREAT start

-----

Aaron Rodgers and the Packers Handle the Vikings in Rodgers' First Start, 24-19

SEPTEMBER 8, 2008

Aaron Rodgers was very impressive in his first start for the Green Bay Packers, going 18-for-22 for 178 yards and a touchdown while also accumulating a touchdown run as the Packers defeated the Minnesota Vikings 24-19.

The Packers were outgained by the Vikings 357-319 but the Vikings were only 1 for 3 in the red zone and Tarvaris Jackson only went 16 for 35 with 178 yards, a touchdown, and an interception.

This was Rodgers' first start of his NFL career and his first career win. Rodgers performed much better than expected, but it was against a pass defense that was the worst in the NFL last year. Packers fans shouldn't expect too much more of this, but Rodgers showed that he isn't a mediocre player tonight.

Perhaps the highlight of the game was after Rodgers' 1-yard touchdown run with 6:03 left in which he took his first "Lambeau Leap" into the stands. That gave the Packers a 24-12 lead. The Vikings would score once more, but could not recover the onside kick. The Packers had to give the ball back but Jackson was picked off on Minnesota's last drive.

The biggest play of the game was Will Blackmon's 76-yard punt return for a touchdown that gave the Packers a 17-6 lead in the third quarter. Adrian Peterson gained 103 yards on 19 carries with a touchdown for the Vikings and Ryan Grant gained 92 yards on 12 carries with a long run of 57 for the Packers.

[RashanGary]

Just listened to the coaches talk about Jordan Love. Lafleur, Hackett, Getsy. All three are glad he had a year and a half before he had to do this. All three said it was good timing as far as his development.

There should be a big difference between Jordan Love and a rookie like Justin Fields.

I’m actually excited for this game. I like our chances and I like Love’s chances of being really good .

[RashanGary]

Getsy said Love came from a simplified offense at Utah. Said it was spread out and had simple decisions.

Man, I’m glad we get to see Love play in a game. So many questions, so few answers right now.

I REALLY hope he plays well.

[call_me_ishmael]

If he stinks, like bobble says, then you go back to Rodgers and try to hash out a 4 year extension.

I think that ship has already sailed.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Smoking Mary Jane on the roof
Love looks so pretty and we love this view
We fell for Love in November
That’s why we love fall

Our pearl, our pearl, our pearl
Love will be our world

girl in red

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Is J-Love part Asian? Watching on the tube, I saw a couple of Asians at his draft party. Dude kinda look like a dark-skinned Filipino.

[Fritz]

I think that ship has already sailed.

Or that bandwagon has left the port...

[Sparkey]

https://youtu.be/2vTKmVvyNRc

[Sparkey]

https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/ContentGallery/The-12-things-I-learned-watching-Jordan-Loves-2018-tape-148215780/

The 12 things I learned watching Jordan Love's 2018 tape

[KYPack]

https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/ContentGallery/The-12-things-I-learned-watching-Jordan-Loves-2018-tape-148215780/

The 12 things I learned watching Jordan Love's 2018 tape
Great, really great post Spark.

When we drafted Love, I trucked onto YouTube and checked out his cutups for 2019.

And I wasn't very impressed.

For instance look at his ratios for 19 as opposed 18...

20 – 17 touchdown to interception ratio in 2019. His 2018 stats show a 32 – 6 touchdown to interception ratio.

2018 was a strong year, unfortunately, I couldn't get any tape on him for 18 and blew it off

This guy for Packer Report has a lot of the cutups and they show a far different story than the 19 highlights.

This kid has the stuff to be a top pro. He's got the heart of a lion and s short memory.

Let's get some guys around him and get him going.

[red]

well all need to lower our expectations a bit

for 30 years its been super bowl or bust, and its been bust 93.333% of the time

will love be as good as bert or karen? probably not, he might be good enough to win with though. and it won't be had to live up to the less then lofty goals that karen hit last year

the coach and GM and murphy all seem to think he's ready, time to find out

we might even be able to get some decent players to fill in for rodgers support staff he had to have around him (cobb, tonyan, lewis, etc)

wins can something to be happy bout next season, not just, "well we won but looked like shit"

[Fosco33]

https://youtu.be/QjZbPA1cMIU

[Fritz]

https://imgix.bustle.com/rehost/2016/9/13/3fade471-1986-40cf-ae22-e8c2727bce6b.png?w=800&fit=crop&crop=faces&auto=format%2Ccompress


Oops. Wrong thread. Saw that album cover Fosco posted and missed what the theme actually was.

[King Friday]

Honestly, our chances of winning a title really do not regress much switching QBs. The bottom line is that Rodgers rarely produced in the postseason over the past 10 years. I’m not saying that he was the reason for all our postseason failure, but he also wasn’t the reason for our success.

Truly great winners are responsible for postseason success. It is entirely possible that Jordan Love will prove to be a better postseason QB even if he isn’t as talented or gifted as Rodgers. Bart Starr was not supremely gifted…he was just a winner. I’d rather have a winner than the most talented guy who rarely gets it done.

[Harlan Huckleby]

well all need to lower our expectations a bit

for 30 years its been super bowl or bust, and its been bust 93.333% of the time

will love be as good as bert or karen? probably not, he might be good enough to win with though. and it won't be had to live up to the less then lofty goals that karen hit last year

the coach and GM and murphy all seem to think he's ready, time to find out

we might even be able to get some decent players to fill in for rodgers support staff he had to have around him (cobb, tonyan, lewis, etc)

wins can something to be happy bout next season, not just, "well we won but looked like shit"

I agree with this. Except I'm not sure the management believes Love is good enough. Why didn't they sit injured Rodgers for a game or two in 2022? They are still hoping.

[Fosco33]

https://imgix.bustle.com/rehost/2016/9/13/3fade471-1986-40cf-ae22-e8c2727bce6b.png?w=800&fit=crop&crop=faces&auto=format%2Ccompress


Oops. Wrong thread. Saw that album cover Fosco posted and missed what the theme actually was.

That’d work too. Ha!

[Fosco33]

https://youtu.be/p62JUR5d_Gs

[MadtownPacker]

The question we are all asking and what we are trying to avoid in the playoffs…...


https://youtu.be/Pe5q_TdKbsk

[Spaulding]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Frateyourmusic.com%2Frelease%2Fal bum%2Fthe-cult%2Flove%2F&psig=AOvVaw34TxY2zJpZ_H0VBcuSw99U&ust=1679170412381000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAsQjRxqFwoTCJiV1bHj4_0CFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE

[Spaulding]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_(The_Cult_album)#/media/File:The_Cult_Love.jpg

How the #&^*$* do I delete a post that didn't result in the image I pasted and didn't show up?

[red]

you can't delete a post, it stays there forever as a reminder to everyone in the world that you fucked up

[HarveyWallbangers]

Great, really great post Spark.

When we drafted Love, I trucked onto YouTube and checked out his cutups for 2019.

And I wasn't very impressed.

For instance look at his ratios for 19 as opposed 18...

20 – 17 touchdown to interception ratio in 2019. His 2018 stats show a 32 – 6 touchdown to interception ratio.

2018 was a strong year, unfortunately, I couldn't get any tape on him for 18 and blew it off

This guy for Packer Report has a lot of the cutups and they show a far different story than the 19 highlights.

This kid has the stuff to be a top pro. He's got the heart of a lion and s short memory.

Let's get some guys around him and get him going.

If you had paid attention to PR during that draft, I laid this all out. :) Love was awesome in 2018. Then, Utah State lost 9 of their other 10 starters on offense. They were overmatched. Love still looked good at moments that season (e.g. Michigan State).

[Fritz]

Honestly, our chances of winning a title really do not regress much switching QBs. The bottom line is that Rodgers rarely produced in the postseason over the past 10 years. I’m not saying that he was the reason for all our postseason failure, but he also wasn’t the reason for our success.

Truly great winners are responsible for postseason success. It is entirely possible that Jordan Love will prove to be a better postseason QB even if he isn’t as talented or gifted as Rodgers. Bart Starr was not supremely gifted…he was just a winner. I’d rather have a winner than the most talented guy who rarely gets it done.

That’s not what his wife said.

[QBME]

you can't delete a post, it stays there forever as a reminder to everyone in the world that you fucked up

:razz:

[QBME]

:razz:

and I should (and do) know

[KYPack]

If you had paid attention to PR during that draft, I laid this all out. :) Love was awesome in 2018. Then, Utah State lost 9 of their other 10 starters on offense. They were overmatched. Love still looked good at moments that season (e.g. Michigan State).

I'm sure you are right Harve. I've long admired your ability to scout out all these obscure ball players from Nowhere Tech, etc. The problem is me. Since 08 or so, I've given up on any advance work on the draft. I treat the draft as presents under the Christmas tree. Post draft I look at the stuff on the draftees we gathered up. Most of what I saw on Love wasn't very impressive. But as said, it was from 19. It wasn't til I saw Sparky's post re: Packer Report did I really see the Cuts from '18.

Far more impressive QB play by Love. Back shoulder routes in the end zone right on rhythm, touch passes over the middle also right on pace, long passes out side the numbers to his left. The Kid has every club in the bag. It's still a long walk to star NFL QB, but at least our boy has the tools. Now can he perform in a league game?

Don't know for sure, but I'm gaining confidence.

[Fritz]

It's really going to be fun to watch. I'm curious as to whether or how much Love will play in the preseason now that he's The Guy.

[run pMc]

MLF said Jordan Love would play in the preseason. I'd think that means it's more like the early Rodgers days where he'd play like a quarter one game, then a half, and then nothing.

I would expect them to tackle better and the offense to execute more cleanly earlier in the season if they play some preseason.

I think not giving their starters playing time in the preseason was smart from a health standpoint, but bad from a performance standpoint. They often looked slow and overmatched in their first game or two, as though they had to adjust to game speed and working together, timing, etc. MLF probably felt they could take a mulligan in Game 1 of the season with Rodgers and a fully healthy team, with 16 more games to go. Last year must certainly have been the wake up call. An 8-9 team can't afford to give away any games.

I'll be curious to see what they do about backup QB. They don't have cap space, there's not much out there anyway, and they have to do better than Danny Etling. I'd assume they take a flier on a QB in the draft.

[Merlin]

I'm on board.

Anyone who knows me knows I've never been a Rodgers fan. There was a reason he fell to Green Bay in the draft and he's displayed that reason for 18 years.

He's a head case, always has been. Then of course there is the fact he's never been able to throw a 5 yard out, a screen or a slant. His consistently under throwing, over throwing, dirt balls and the fact he can't hit anyone in stride. This past season he didn't have the cast to make him look good. And for as much as Favre didn't know what defenses he was playing against, Rodgers can't figure it out running the entire play clock down. When the game is on the line, we need 3 yards - Rodgers goes deep. That's not LaFleur, that's Rodgers.

Last season all he had to to was hand the ball off and let the run set up the pass but he made poor decisions in the RPO and I grew very tired of the Mike McCarthy offense still being around when he isn't.

It's been a painful 18 years for me to watch this narcissist.

As for Love, time will tell. He's got the talent, he shown he's matured from season to season. Will it be enough? I guess that depends on the rest of the team. I am a Packer fan and I watch them come hell or high water no matter who is playing on the team. That doesn't mean I can't be pissed off at certain players for thinking they are bigger than the team =).

[Fritz]

I'm on board.

Anyone who knows me knows I've never been a Rodgers fan. There was a reason he fell to Green Bay in the draft and he's displayed that reason for 18 years.

He's a head case, always has been. Then of course there is the fact he's never been able to throw a 5 yard out, a screen or a slant. His consistently under throwing, over throwing, dirt balls and the fact he can't hit anyone in stride. This past season he didn't have the cast to make him look good. And for as much as Favre didn't know what defenses he was playing against, Rodgers can't figure it out running the entire play clock down. When the game is on the line, we need 3 yards - Rodgers goes deep. That's not LaFleur, that's Rodgers.

Last season all he had to to was hand the ball off and let the run set up the pass but he made poor decisions in the RPO and I grew very tired of the Mike McCarthy offense still being around when he isn't.

It's been a painful 18 years for me to watch this narcissist.

As for Love, time will tell. He's got the talent, he shown he's matured from season to season. Will it be enough? I guess that depends on the rest of the team. I am a Packer fan and I watch them come hell or high water no matter who is playing on the team. That doesn't mean I can't be pissed off at certain players for thinking they are bigger than the team =).

Damn, it’s the anti-Tex!

[texaspackerbacker]

Most of ya'all are "the anti-Tex" - just different shades of wrongheadedness. This piece of shit, Merlin, adds blindness to that wrongheadedness hahahaha.

[bobblehead]

I'm on board.

Anyone who knows me knows I've never been a Rodgers fan. There was a reason he fell to Green Bay in the draft and he's displayed that reason for 18 years.

He's a head case, always has been. Then of course there is the fact he's never been able to throw a 5 yard out, a screen or a slant. His consistently under throwing, over throwing, dirt balls and the fact he can't hit anyone in stride. This past season he didn't have the cast to make him look good. And for as much as Favre didn't know what defenses he was playing against, Rodgers can't figure it out running the entire play clock down. When the game is on the line, we need 3 yards - Rodgers goes deep. That's not LaFleur, that's Rodgers.

Last season all he had to to was hand the ball off and let the run set up the pass but he made poor decisions in the RPO and I grew very tired of the Mike McCarthy offense still being around when he isn't.

It's been a painful 18 years for me to watch this narcissist.

As for Love, time will tell. He's got the talent, he shown he's matured from season to season. Will it be enough? I guess that depends on the rest of the team. I am a Packer fan and I watch them come hell or high water no matter who is playing on the team. That doesn't mean I can't be pissed off at certain players for thinking they are bigger than the team =).

Yea....so most of that is pure crap.

[sharpe1027]

Most of ya'all are "the anti-Tex" - just different shades of wrongheadedness. This piece of shit, Merlin, adds blindness to that wrongheadedness hahahaha.

Thanks for the compliment.

[Joemailman]

Take no heed. Merlin couldn't even be happy when the Packers went to the Super Bowl. http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?21512-It-s-about-time&p=570733&highlight=#post570733

[run pMc]

Well he's not completely wrong. Rodgers is a complicated fella after all.
There were too many RPOs last year, and Rodgers stubbornly let defenses dictate and bait him. Also the important third threat of RPO (the QB run) wasn't a threat.
He more than occasionally threw deep on 3rd and short, and regularly ignored receivers running free.

So there are nuggets of on-field truth, and the off field stuff I can live without but it's (usually) tolerable if your QB is MVP or HOF level.

[RashanGary]

Throwing deep on 3rd and one makes defenses and coordinators have to respect the whole field on every short yardage play. It’s smart, especially if you have a QB who can hit on a few of them too. The reward is more than just the chance of hitting, it makes the times you do run the ball or throw short even more productive too.

Count me in as a fan of the deep shots on short yardage plays.

[Sparkey]

Throwing deep on 3rd and one makes defenses and coordinators have to respect the whole field on every short yardage play. It’s smart, especially if you have a QB who can hit on a few of them too. The reward is more than just the chance of hitting, it makes the times you do run the ball or throw short even more productive too.

Count me in as a fan of the deep shots on short yardage plays.

It also makes you punt more.

[NewsBruin]

There's slight uptick in quality, but when we played pickup football after college marching band practice, there was a rocket-armed guy who always wanted to be QB. He'd draw up a play and on every snap would launch it to the furthest receiver downfield. Whenever my side was shorthanded, I would cover two receivers and take the deeper one when they split up. And every dang time, he would throw it right at me.

Anyway, take that into account with Mr. Chuck It Over The Mountains.

[Fritz]

Throwing deep on 3rd and one makes defenses and coordinators have to respect the whole field on every short yardage play. It’s smart, especially if you have a QB who can hit on a few of them too. The reward is more than just the chance of hitting, it makes the times you do run the ball or throw short even more productive too.

Count me in as a fan of the deep shots on short yardage plays.


Don't recall that happening very often the last year, or even two.

[sharpe1027]

Throwing deep on 3rd and one makes defenses and coordinators have to respect the whole field on every short yardage play. It’s smart, especially if you have a QB who can hit on a few of them too. The reward is more than just the chance of hitting, it makes the times you do run the ball or throw short even more productive too.

Count me in as a fan of the deep shots on short yardage plays.
It's not that Rodgers wasn't justified in throwing deep occasionally on short yardage, it's a question of whether he was doing it too often.

There is certainly a place for an occasional deep throw on short yardage but there's gotta be a point at which you are doing it too much. If he threw half as many deep balls, would that have been enough to keep the defense honest? Probably.

[RashanGary]

It's not that Rodgers wasn't justified in throwing deep occasionally on short yardage, it's a question of whether he was doing it too often.

There is certainly a place for an occasional deep throw on short yardage but there's gotta be a point at which you are doing it too much. If he threw half as many deep balls, would that have been enough to keep the defense honest? Probably.

True. Maybe it was too much. But there are some benefits that go beyond the success rate of the plays. It’s probably not as bad as most fans think in the long run and probably not as good as Rodgers thinks either.

[Joemailman]

Rodgers last pass as a Packer was an INT deep down the right sideline on a 3-10 play. That was too common an occurrence in recent years. (The decision, not the INT).

[run pMc]

Count me in as a fan of the deep shots on short yardage plays.

Generally I'm not a fan -- I think you keep moving the chains on a 3rd or 4th and short. On 2nd and short -- absolutely take a shot.

It's more of a situational thing for me.
If you're inside FG range and you like your matchup, I could see going for a deep shot, but if you're at 3rd and 2 from your own 35, just pick up the first down and keep marching down the field.

Throwing deep is a boom-or-bust proposition, and the probability of success is low. Losing Adams hurt Rodgers last year, as did injuries and age.

[Fritz]

I can see doing it once in a while, to keep defenses honest. But in general, I agree with run on this one. How many times were the Packers in a third-and-short, and we were all waving wildly at the TV, yelling "He's open over the middle!" only to watch Rodgers heave what looked like a desperation throw to a pretty-well-covered receiver? Not only that, but many of those throws weren't even close.

I also think as others do that Rodgers missed Adams a whole, whole, whole lot. Adams could grab that back-shoulder throw better than anyone I've ever seen, and that includes Jordy Nelson, who was pretty darn good at it.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

I have no clue how well Love will do, but it is rather exciting to start fresh again. Our expectations are down and so should our disappointments, but all and all, I look forward to rooting the Packers to their next SB..

[RashanGary]

I have no clue how well Love will do, but it is rather exciting to start fresh again. Our expectations are down and so should our disappointments, but all and all, I look forward to rooting the Packers to their next SB..

I’m with ya, on this. Low expectations, but I have some hope that Love will be great.

[Fritz]

I’m with ya, on this. Low expectations, but I have some hope that Love will be great.

I felt this way when I was seventeen.

[sharpe1027]

I felt this way when I was seventeen.

Did your hopes get dashed, or did you exceed expectations?

[Fritz]

Did your hopes get dashed, or did you exceed expectations?

My hopes were dashed for about thirty years, in large part because I was an immature asshole. But then I (finally) grew up, and that's when I met the love of my life, and expectations were exceeded. By far.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Today I learned: Tex was in San Francisco in his youth. Harlan was in Hamburg (presumably, Germany) in his youth.

In my youth, I once trekked to Reno. Checked into a Super 8 and then drove east to Sparks. Had the pleasure of visiting the Mustang Ranch and Wild Horse. If I ever win enough frogskins playing poker, I’ll go back.

[Fritz]

Tex in San Francisco. I have wondered, occasionally, if "Tex" is sheer invention, and "Tex" is actually some, say, left-wing LGBTQ+ person who gets a kick out of getting all of us riled up here at Packerrats with the made-up persona.

[bobblehead]

Don't recall that happening very often the last year, or even two.

And thats the bottom line. No one has a problem with the decision to go deep (think bears, 4th and whatever it was to cobb for the score), we have a problem with the fact that he didn't hit any of them.

[run pMc]

And thats the bottom line. No one has a problem with the decision to go deep (think bears, 4th and whatever it was to cobb for the score), we have a problem with the fact that he didn't hit any of them.

The Cobb examples are a little different -- the NFCN winner most people think about was a blown coverage and Cobb had about 8 yards on anyone. I get your point though -- there's inherently an armchair QB or hindsight bias-- great if it works, stupid if it doesn't.
I think it comes down to probability -- if it's 3rd and 8 I'm ok with them taking a swing, you need to get a lot of yards to convert. On 3rd and 2 you just try to convert so you live for another set of downs to work with. Keeping Barry's defense off the field is a bonus.

[texaspackerbacker]

Today I learned: Tex was in San Francisco in his youth. Harlan was in Hamburg (presumably, Germany) in his youth.

In my youth, I once trekked to Reno. Checked into a Super 8 and then drove east to Sparks. Had the pleasure of visiting the Mustang Ranch and Wild Horse. If I ever win enough frogskins playing poker, I’ll go back.

What? (First of all, Fritz, I'm not taking the bait and getting lured into the evil p word you're flirting with, not in this part of the forum anyway.) What's this crap about me in Frisco in my youth? Other than a couple years at the army language school in Monterey and a couple of forays Broadway and North Beach (which some will maybe be familiar with hahahaha), I never went there until a brief vacation a couple of years ago. Who said otherwise?

Fritz, you can take me completely at face value, both the perceived good and perceived bad. I'm an open book.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

What? (First of all, Fritz, I'm not taking the bait and getting lured into the evil p word you're flirting with, not in this part of the forum anyway.) What's this crap about me in Frisco in my youth? Other than a couple years at the army language school in Monterey and a couple of forays Broadway and North Beach (which some will maybe be familiar with hahahaha), I never went there until a brief vacation a couple of years ago. Who said otherwise?

Fritz, you can take me completely at face value, both the perceived good and perceived bad. I'm an open book.

Unless I’m misreading/misunderstanding something, especially the word “Frisco,” looks like you said otherwise. :)


hahahahaha My point was, you just might have an ax to grind that affected your opinion.

I'll tell you about my first time in Frisco in the early 70s. I was stationed in Monterey at the army language school. I had a friend who was a chaplain's assistant of all things. We went to North Beach (which I hadn't heard of previously) to get laid (he wasn't exactly a good normal chaplain's assistant). We went to several of the topless bottomless places and finally got up the courage to try some soliciting. We paid the money, followed the girl out the back door supposedly to some sort of room where a couple of big Asian-looking dudes blocked our path and suggested we be on our way or else. We didn't wait around to find out or else what hahahaha.

[texaspackerbacker]

Good job of digging up an old post hahahaha. Yeah, that happened. I thought you were implying I lived there long, though. A couple of day or night trips to the topless/bottomless bars is a far cry from living there.

[Fritz]

What? (First of all, Fritz, I'm not taking the bait and getting lured into the evil p word you're flirting with, not in this part of the forum anyway.) What's this crap about me in Frisco in my youth? Other than a couple years at the army language school in Monterey and a couple of forays Broadway and North Beach (which some will maybe be familiar with hahahaha), I never went there until a brief vacation a couple of years ago. Who said otherwise?

Fritz, you can take me completely at face value, both the perceived good and perceived bad. I'm an open book.

I wasn't trying to lure anyone into anything, nor say some view was good or bad. I was merely making a joke about your "Tex" persona being a front.

I had this thought last night about Jordan Love: if they draft that Hendron Hooker guy from Tennessee, imagine seeing the two of them, standing next to one another, from the stands on game day. Heck, it could even be fun if they draft that Houston QB - Tune, I think his last name is.

[George Cumby]

Choo-Choo!!!

[run pMc]

Choo-Choo!!!

LOL
I'm not on the bandwagon (yet) but I'll be rooting for the Packers and thus him.

He's got a good arm, is still very young, and has had 3 years in the same system to sit and learn. There's hope.

[George Cumby]

LOL

He's got a good arm, is still very young, and has had 3 years in the same system to sit and learn. There's hope.


MLF can now run his offense with a pretty decent stable of weapons. I'm hopeful.

But the OL......

[RashanGary]

Jump on the bandwagon, tex. If you don’t get on board with Jordan Love, you’re gonna be a shithead packer hater and don’t deserve to call yourself a fan.

[MadtownPacker]

The youngster's time has come!!! I havent been this excited about a new season in a long time.

[King Friday]

Love proves Tex wrong. Double digit wins this season.

[KYPack]

Most of ya'all are "the anti-Tex" - just different shades of wrongheadedness. This piece of shit, Merlin, adds blindness to that wrongheadedness hahahaha.

Why is he the Anti Tex? You have insulted offended and otherwise beat the brakes off any poster that suggested Rodgers would be gone. You need to thread thru your posts. Anyone who suggested that a Rodgers trade should b made was a hater and a fool. You need to wade thru your lane posts and make a sincere apology to those savvy fans

[texaspackerbacker]

Originally I claimed they would not be stupid enough to let Rodgers go. I backed off of that and admitted being wrong when Rodgers made that statement on McAfee. I absolutely do NOT back off or apologize or whatever for any badness I spewed about the haters and ignoramuses who actually wanted Rodgers gone and/or are happy about the trade going through.

As I said, though, as bad as the trade itself is, at least Gutekunst held out long enough to get a fairly decent haul of picks in the trade - a small silver lining in a huge very dark cloud.

[Bretsky]

The shitbag is and media whore is gone.

I am ready for some drama free football in green bay

[sharpe1027]

Fuck you, Tex. You were an asshole name calling and disrespecting just about every single poster, while claiming you knew for certain what was going to happen and everyone else was a moron

One post apology doesn't excuse your stupidity and disrespect. You're nowhere near as smart as you pretend to be. Have some respect for fellow Packer fans or go join a Jets forum.

[texaspackerbacker]

hahahahaha Back at you, sharpe. The shitbags, assholes, and morons are those who WANTED Rodgers gone. What "one apology"? I don't recall apologizing.

As I have said, I'd be pleased to be wrong about the mediocrity I expect in future years, and as pleased as anybody if Love turns out to be great. I read another article just this morning saying basically that. We'll see which way things go.

[jklowan]

A wise man once said "Love is all you need" I for one am hoping this is true and am glad to finally be done with the Rodgers drama

[George Cumby]

Love proves Tex wrong. Double digit wins this season.

Yaaaaaaaaassssssssss!

[jklowan]

I am expecting 9-10 wins this year

[run pMc]

MLF can now run his offense with a pretty decent stable of weapons. I'm hopeful.

But the OL......

Not following. What's wrong with the 2023 OL? Bakh, Jenkins, Myers, Runyan, Njiman is pretty good. GB has consistently had one of the best pass blocking OL, when healthy.

[run pMc]

I am expecting 9-10 wins this year

I put it at 7 wins this year, and if JLove shows positive growth over the season they could make a big jump to 10-11 wins in 2024.
The roster still has talent - it's a matter of depth, coaching, and filling a few roster holes.

I need to see him play a few games before I'm on the bandwagon. He's going to throw some bad INTs but he's also going to make some good passes as well. The good have to outnumber the bad by a very large margin.
If he sucks they have a high 2024 draft pick to get a new QB, and if the Bears suck even worse (it's possible) they'll have the extra pick from the NYJ to leapfrog CHI for that next elite QB.