Last Dance Green Bay

[Tony Oday]

AR will be back it sounds like and with DA wanting QB money and ZS mad about his deal the window is closed after this year unless AR(wr) and Love are good :)

[red]

AR will be back it sounds like and with DA wanting QB money and ZS mad about his deal the window is closed after this year unless AR(wr) and Love are good :)

adams wants current WR money

z is gone next year unless they can come up with a new deal. that "restructure" of his contract made next years cap number almost 30 million

[HarveyWallbangers]

DeAndre Hopkins contract really messed things up. I think he signed for $5m/year more than the highest paid WR (Julio Jones) at the time. That contract was pretty ridiculous. I'm not sure if paying $27M/year for a WR is a good use of resources. It's a shitty situation. I'm guessing the Packers are willing to pay more than the Julio Jones contract, but not the Hopkins contract.

[red]

DeAndre Hopkins contract really messed things up. I think he signed for $5m/year more than the highest paid WR (Julio Jones) at the time. That contract was pretty ridiculous. I'm not sure if paying $27M/year for a WR is a good use of resources. It's a shitty situation. I'm guessing the Packers are willing to pay more than the Julio Jones contract, but not the Hopkins contract.

that number is very misleading, i don't know why the media types keep saying it. and why spotrac and over the cap don't fix it

he signed a two year extension, he is still under contract for 4 more years

including last year when he signed the deal. only 1 year will he actually make more then 27 million, that was last year with the signing bonus. he got 29 million in cash last year. the next highest cash year is 19.4 million

he only has one season out of the 4 or 5 that actually goes over 27 million, and thats just barely

no matter how much funny math you use, you just can't can't come up with anything close to the 27 million a year guys and sites are saying he makes

his actual average cash number is closer to 20.8 million per years, around 25 million if you really do some shady math and count the signing bonus, but not during the year he received it and only count it has a 4 year deal

his average cap number is either around 18 million or 23.5 million a year if you do the 4 year trick here

point is, he's not making 27 million a year

[HarveyWallbangers]

It was a two year extension for over $27M/year with $42M guaranteed ($38M which has already been paid out)? I guess I don't understand why it's misleading. You don't factor in the existing contract when you determine how much value the extension is worth.

[red]

i don't get why you would only count years 4 and 5 when you give half the money out in year 1

and the team can easily cut him after year 3, meaning he might not even see those 2 new years

this is a very clear case of a funny money deal

if you are on a 3 year 5 million dollar deal, then sign a 2 year extension with 50 million in extra money. you have a contract for 5 years worth 55 million. you are not on a 5 year deal worth 25 million a year, you are on a 5 year deal worth 11 million a year.

your average money per year is 11 million a year, not 25

[Bretsky]

I kinds of think the Packers and Devante agree on a deal

Would Adams really let this opporunity expire ? Torn ACL ? Major Injury.

It would seem like Adams should take the money. I think this is a negotiating ploy and I think this gets done before the game 4 is completed

[Jaire]

I kinds of think the Packers and Devante agree on a deal

Would Adams really let this opporunity expire ? Torn ACL ? Major Injury.

It would seem like Adams should take the money. I think this is a negotiating ploy and I think this gets done before the game 4 is completed

Lots of smoke.....always. But yeah. The bottom line is guaranteed money hedging against injury.

This is why Adams wants a deal now.

Interesting to see what happens. The cap should go way up next year based on GB's financials, which is the real annual news from GB's shareholders meeting.

[Joemailman]

He's here!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7Rlm1bXIAAVus3?format=jpg&name=small

[Fritz]

Here's what I think: this really is the last dance for the dynamic duo of Rodgers and Adams in Green Bay.

This agreement between Rodgers and the Packers benefits both sides - Rodgers has found a way to get out after this year, and the Packers can get something in return.

It makes no sense, therefore, to sign Davante Adams to some mega contract when you have Jaire Alexander and Elgton Jenkins waiting in the wings and the Packers already in deep cap doodoo after this season. Why would you sign Adams when he'll be 28 or 29 by the time Love comes into his own - if he ever does? Time to find another young wide receiver to develop for Love. Harv is right - signing Adams is a poor use of resources, as after the next two seasons he'll be 29 and that's the beginning of the downhill slide for wide receivers.

There would be no way, despite the fantasies of those of you like Tank, to "cook the cap" and keep Rodgers AND Adams AND sign Alexander and Jenkins.

Nope, it's time to hit the re-set button. I'm glad it worked out this way. Having Rodgers' drama recurring, as it surely would, and dedicating so much of the cap to one Princess Bride for the next five years (during which, despite what Tex wishes, Rodgers will lose his legs - he already has begun) will not allow the Packers to move forward.

And I am heartily sick of Aaron Rodgers and his passsive-agressive circus. I don't think he was all in the wrong - the Packers effed this up royally - but I am tired of Rodgers's act.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Why would you sign Adams when he'll be 28 or 29 by the time Love comes into his own - if he ever does?
agree with you except Adams is already 29 in December.

[hoosier]

agree with you except Adams is already 29 in December.

And it's Tex, not Tank, who thinks you can just continually cook the cap. Tex's cap is already mushier than a pot full of peas cooked in England.

[Tony Oday]

We are in a strong cap position when Diva is traded away aren't we?

[Jaire]

Cap should go way up as I read the GB financials. That's why all the teams are pushing out.

[Vincenzo]

He's here!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7Rlm1bXIAAVus3?format=jpg&name=small

In his private plane, no less.
There’s a short clip of him arriving at Lambeau this morning, he looks like a douche.

[MadScientist]

In his private plane, no less.
There’s a short clip of him arriving at Lambeau this morning, he looks like a douche.

Don't care what he looks like. Don't care if he is a douche. If he, DA and others treat this as a last dance and get the Owl, all will be good. The Packers can trade him for a ton of pick in the off season, shed a ton of salary and go for a quick reload to be back on top in a couple of years.

[Harlan Huckleby]

And it's Tex, not Tank, who thinks you can just continually cook the cap. Tex's cap is already mushier than a pot full of peas cooked in England.

Fritz has good days and bad days. The nurse is busy today, dishes in the toilet, eating porridge with tv control.....

[jklowan]

He should now be referred to as Karron Rodgers!!!!!

[George Cumby]

He should now be referred to as Karron Rodgers!!!!!

Gold.

[texaspackerbacker]

And it's Tex, not Tank, who thinks you can just continually cook the cap. Tex's cap is already mushier than a pot full of peas cooked in England.

More like both of us - and anybody else who wants a winning team.

Assuming that really is his plane, good, but it's a hollow victory if it's only for one year and then down the drain. I HOPE the deal they made with him is for that $90 m or so guaranteed which would necessitate stretching it out to more years.

[jklowan]

The new deal from what I have read is this the 3rd year has been voided and his salary for this year 14.8 million has been converted to a bonus so we get a little cap relief, supposedly there are org changes behind the scenes changing but nothing detailed. That is it. So his contract with the Packers runs out at the end of the 22 season. They will revisit this at the end of the season if Karron is not happy that the changes worked for him he can request the trade happen and he gets a say in where he goes. If Karron is happy they can redo the contract making him I'm sure the highest paid QB. Let's hope Karron stays healthy for the season and wins a Superbowl so we can maximize the return when he asks to leave next year.

[jklowan]

All you nancies saying they gave Karron everything are wrong, he essentially got nothing but a year voided which the FO had no intention on having him playing in GB anyways. Greenbay still has all options open, if he is happy after this year he can re-up a new contract and all will be good. If not they trade his ass, nothing has changed but the FO bought another year to see if Love will be the guy or we need somebody else moving forward.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

JK, go root for the Queens or the NHL.

[jklowan]

APB you'll be the 1st to start the GOAT love thread in 2 years popping off about his amazing kung fu, go frogskin yourself

[jklowan]

and I already watch the NHL

[call_me_ishmael]

Man, sort of sad but I also hope they _finally_ go all in and win it. They probably will be ass for at least a year or two with Love just like they were with Rodgers so I think it makes sense to load up this year and pay the bill down the road. Get that title. Bretsky is right. Life is about winning championships. Sick of being the bridesmaid but never the bride.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm wondering, who is happy about the situation - if the "reports" i.e. the speculation of that shithead, Adam Shefter, is correct? I sure as hell am NOT. One year, if absolutely everything goes right, we maybe win a Super Bowl (BFD), then it's oblivion, down the drain, that to me is NOT something to be pleased about.

[call_me_ishmael]

I'm wondering, who is happy about the situation - if the "reports" i.e. the speculation of that shithead, Adam Shefter, is correct? I sure as hell am NOT. One year, if absolutely everything goes right, we maybe win a Super Bowl (BFD), then it's oblivion, down the drain, that to me is NOT something to be pleased about.

I wouldn't say it's the grim but yeah who would want to go from one of the best QBs ever to someone who is very unlikely to be that? End of an era for sure. Makes me face my own mortality too. Two HOF QBs who were here for a very long time have moved on - A) I am getting old as hell, B) nothing last forever, C) end of an era. Sadness.

[Upnorth]

I'm wondering, who is happy about the situation - if the "reports" i.e. the speculation of that shithead, Adam Shefter, is correct? I sure as hell am NOT. One year, if absolutely everything goes right, we maybe win a Super Bowl (BFD), then it's oblivion, down the drain, that to me is NOT something to be pleased about.

Our team has more to offer than one aging qb. Admittedly losing a 1st ballot hof qb is hard but it's very very far from oblivion

[call_me_ishmael]

This is too funny. This video never gets old lol

https://twitter.com/DaireCarragher/status/1420126355392450564

[MadScientist]

I'm wondering, who is happy about the situation - if the "reports" i.e. the speculation of that shithead, Adam Shefter, is correct? I sure as hell am NOT. One year, if absolutely everything goes right, we maybe win a Super Bowl (BFD), then it's oblivion, down the drain, that to me is NOT something to be pleased about.

Winning the Super Bowl is a BFD. They only one 1 with Favre and so far 1 with Rodgers. Sure Rodgers may have a couple of good years left after this year, but probably not that many. If they can get a decent haul from trading him, it will go a long way to helping the team be back on top in a couple of years.

[Sparkey]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7TzHcFXMAQrBTg?format=jpg&name=900x900

He looks so _______________________________________.

Please fill in the blank

[Fritz]

I'm wondering, who is happy about the situation - if the "reports" i.e. the speculation of that shithead, Adam Shefter, is correct? I sure as hell am NOT. One year, if absolutely everything goes right, we maybe win a Super Bowl (BFD), then it's oblivion, down the drain, that to me is NOT something to be pleased about.

Well, Randall Cobb is happy - this is a move clearly designed to placate Rodgers- the team is in the process of acquiring an over-the-hill player at a position the team just drafted an exciting player for.

So now ESB or Malik Taylor or both will be gone so Rodgers can have his buddy on the team.

But I suppose it's the kind of move the Packers have to make - one they could have made a couple years ago by keeping Kumerow around. I don't like it - so now you're a player and you have to lick Karron's privates to be sure he wants you around? - but I also understand that it's a whole new world and when you are as lauded as Rodgers is, you get to swing your balls around.

And maybe it'll all work out - maybe Cobb will have a big year, be a good mentor for Amari Rodgers, and then at the end of the year Cobb can join Karron and Davante Adams somewhere else.

BTW, I did not realize that Davante Adams is already going to turn 29. Wow. I would definitely not re-sign him. Trade Karron after the season and let Adams walk, and start anew.

Again, this is not all on Aaron Rodgers. The Packer organization could likely have avoided this kerfluffle. But Rodgers is a hard guy to like.

[George Cumby]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7TzHcFXMAQrBTg?format=jpg&name=900x900

He looks so _______________________________________.

Please fill in the blank

Complicated.

Douchey.

Ridiculous.

[NewsBruin]

Complicated.

Douchey.

Ridiculous.

I was gonna say he looks like Bono, but now it's kinda redundant.

[call_me_ishmael]

Wow, ARod clearly pissed in his press conference. This is quite candid. Calling Kumerow "clearly the 2nd best receiver in camp last year", etc.

https://twitter.com/packers/status/1420430899208937472 for the video.

Very clear that this is in fact a last dance and he gone after this year.


Rodgers said there was not commitment from the #Packers to 2021. "It was more the approach, not mentioning anything beyond '21. I felt making a commitment past '21 was something we could do." Rodgers said there was a way to structure a deal that wouldn't crush the Packers' cap.

Very clear the context we received was from Packers PR. Answer is probably grey.

Honestly, I think the points he raises are totally valid. I am nodding along with ARod on this one. He clearly comes off looking better because he is frankly right about these things. That said - this season is going to be a shit show and I highly doubt they win the super bowl. Sometimes the candid truth is rude as fuck and insulting to your teammates. Definitely gonna be a rift.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

APB you'll be the 1st to start the GOAT love thread in 2 years popping off about his amazing kung fu, go frogskin yourself


😂

[Anti-Polar Bear]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7TzHcFXMAQrBTg?format=jpg&name=900x900

He looks so _______________________________________.

Please fill in the blank

Sophisticated.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Honestly, I think the points he raises are totally valid. I am nodding along with ARod on this one. He clearly comes off looking better because he is frankly right about these things.
Many of us have worked at jobs where we have a better idea of the details of the operation than the boss.
I think Rodgers is very smart, close to the action, and might very well make some better decisions than the GM.

It doesn't matter. He is not King Packer. All he should do is keep management informed of his opinions. It is not their job to "respect" Aaron by agreeing with him.

I was a huge fan of AR because of his intelligence and competitiveness. I strongly wanted Packers to accommodate him to facilitate him sticking around a few more years. Instead they accommodate him to leave. I'm in "fuck that guy" camp now. I am a scorned lover.

[RashanGary]

I understand Rodgers griping when he thinks management is messing up. What makes it a little tougher is that the things he bitches about just look like he’s wrong. Kumerow is obviously a JAG. Keeping him would have been stupid. But Rodgers wants to be consulted. Shouldn’t all the players be consulted then? Why is Rodgers the only player who should have input? Shouldn’t the WRs get to pick the backup QB and the ILBs get to choose DL? Or is it every other players job to accept decisions and Rodgers job to make the decisions. I don’t know, honestly, I think management is doing mostly right. I don’t think we’re looking at bad guys who are in over their head in the front office. That happens all the time in the work world, but I don’t think it’s the case here.

[hoosier]

Even if a player did have a better take than management on "the details of the operation"--and I am not sure how we could test that in real life--there is still the fact that players are going to be in it for themselves and invested in winning in the present. Management, meanwhile, is at least in principle more invested in the long term health of the organization. Case in point: let's say Kumerow really was more qualified than one or more of the guys who made the roster last fall, but his ceiling is lower than the guys they kept. Who do you keep? We're talking about bottom of the roster guys: do you want the guy who's marginally better now or the guy who has a chance, even if it's just a remote one, of turning into something more than a marginal player? And now, looking back at the year Kumerow had last year compared to MVS and Lazard, what are we to make of this claim about Kumerow being second best player in that group?

[RashanGary]

Even if a player did have a better take than management on "the details of the operation"--and I am not sure how we could test that in real life--there is still the fact that players are going to be in it for themselves and invested in winning in the present. Management, meanwhile, is at least in principle more invested in the long term health of the organization. Case in point: let's say Kumerow really was more qualified than one or more of the guys who made the roster last fall, but his ceiling is lower than the guys they kept. Who do you keep? We're talking about bottom of the roster guys: do you want the guy who's marginally better now or the guy who has a chance, even if it's just a remote one, of turning into something more than a marginal player? And now, looking back at the year Kumerow had last year compared to MVS and Lazard, what are we to make of this claim about Kumerow being second best player in that group?

This is kind of it. Rodgers is saying he knows better but at a glance it sure seems like he might be over valuing his own opinion.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I understand Rodgers griping when he thinks management is messing up. What makes it a little tougher is that the things he bitches about just look like he’s wrong. Kumerow is obviously a JAG. Keeping him would have been stupid. But Rodgers wants to be consulted. Shouldn’t all the players be consulted then? Why is Rodgers the only player who should have input? Shouldn’t the WRs get to pick the backup QB and the ILBs get to choose DL? Or is it every other players job to accept decisions and Rodgers job to make the decisions. I don’t know, honestly, I think management is doing mostly right. I don’t think we’re looking at bad guys who are in over their head in the front office. That happens all the time in the work world, but I don’t think it’s the case here.

Brady plays GM all the time. Ariens is a no nonsense coach. Yet, controversial players like Brown, Suh and Fournette are Bucs. Brady’s fingerprint was all over those signings. Hell, Brady once traded away Garoppolo.

12’s 6 rings short of Brady, but after so many years of carrying the Packers on his back, 12 oughtta have earned the rights to play GM.

[RashanGary]

Brady plays GM all the time. Ariens is a no nonsense coach. Yet, controversial players like Brown, Suh and Fournette are Bucs. Brady’s fingerprint was all over those signings. Hell, Brady once traded away Garoppolo.

12’s 6 rings short of Brady, but after so many years of carry the Packers on his back, 12 oughtta have earned the rights to play GM.

I don’t know. I think the GM is doing a good job. It's hard to say who's right, but the kumerow thing is a bad look for 12.

[Zool]

We'll never know what was actually said about some of the things, but I'm (begrudgingly) on Karrons side when he talks about at least coming to him to talk about cutting a WR. Kumerow is probably on par with Malik Taylor, so what are you gaining by keeping Taylor? They definitely fucked up with Woodson, but they were right on the money with Nelson.

I wonder if he's right that they literally don't even try to use him to recruit FAs? If so, Murphy and Gute should be fired today. He is the second or top reason FAs would go to GB. The other is money.

[Jaire]

Davante mentioned 187



........watch out ;)

And Adams is pissed about his contract negotiations, irate. He is absolutely pumped about Cobb. So I would recommend his presser also. I'm much more stoked about Cobb after listening to Adams. Adams' take confirms what AR stated. The FO is trash imo. Gute is just running b.s. through his mouth. (Gute's spin on Davante's contract talks is nothing what Adams says they were and I don't think Adams had a chance to see Gute's presser before he did his.) ...... I'm afraid no change will happen.

[Jaire]

We'll never know what was actually said about some of the things, but I'm (begrudgingly) on Karrons side when he talks about at least coming to him to talk about cutting a WR. Kumerow is probably on par with Malik Taylor, so what are you gaining by keeping Taylor? They definitely fucked up with Woodson, but they were right on the money with Nelson.

I wonder if he's right that they literally don't even try to use him to recruit FAs? If so, Murphy and Gute should be fired today. He is the second or top reason FAs would go to GB. The other is money.

I think AR's point is that they dropped the ball on every one of these guys. They didn't bring even one or two back. Remember too even Nelson was willing to take a huge paycut and would have been an asset with AR. A lotbof the guys wanted to retire as Packers. Even Peppers wanted to come back for 3 million. That was a big loss to that 2015 team.

I agree on Woodson. That was really crazy as he wanted to return for less.

So.....not only don't they use Rodgers to recruit, they won't even let vets come back for very cheap deals and they cut guys who are keys to success; and wasted 6 first and second round picks trying to find replacements. The FO needs a deep overall. Once AR is gone, the whole thing falls apart imo

[Sparkey]

Woodson was 36 when they released him. Had lost a step and they also had rookie Casey Hayward to play the slot. Did Woodson have another two good years ? Yes he did, but its not like any other team, other then the Raiders, had an interest in him.

Jordy Nelson was 32, a year off an ACL tear and had lost a step. If Nelson was so damned good that last year in GB, why did Rodgers only target him on 88 passes ? Nelson was really, really good until the acl tear and age caught him.

Touchdown Jesus ? Really ? Maybe A-Aron lost his toking partner when they let him go. ( Apparently Rodgers must have smoked a bowl before his presser since he thought, arguably, that TD Jesus was the second best receiver on the team during camp ?! :roll: )

Julius Peppers ? Whatever.

The guy indirectly points the finger at management inferring that those moves could have won them a super bowl and somehow thinks that being a good locker room guy is more important than getting open on the field. Yet, when said "good guy" wasn't getting open, he would do his lovely, annoyed eyeroll crap on the field.

It's ironic that over the years he has bemoaned the FO for not going all in, yet his idea of all in is bringing back slow, non impact players.

MJ thought the same shit, then bought a team and went out and proved to everyone that he had no f'n clue about player acquisition.

I'll cheer AR on the field, but will also be happy when he is gone. I'd rather see guys striving to be great than bemoaning how they feel under valued.

[RashanGary]

What I like about Aarons view point is the loyalty and chemistry. I've been saying this since it started on draft night that businesses are cold and hurtful to people and this world would be better for having more loyalty in business.

Where I understand management is that they're trying to win and Rodgers's way would lead to a lot more losing.

I'm ok with everything that's unfolded. This is life in America and highlights the downfalls of pure competition in some arenas. I hope the Packers do run more according to 12s values but I also hope we're all ok with losing.

[George Cumby]

Woodson was 36 when they released him. Had lost a step and they also had rookie Casey Hayward to play the slot. Did Woodson have another two good years ? Yes he did, but its not like any other team, other then the Raiders, had an interest in him.

Jordy Nelson was 32, a year off an ACL tear and had lost a step. If Nelson was so damned good that last year in GB, why did Rodgers only target him on 88 passes ? Nelson was really, really good until the acl tear and age caught him.

Touchdown Jesus ? Really ? Maybe A-Aron lost his toking partner when they let him go. ( Apparently Rodgers must have smoked a bowl before his presser since he thought, arguably, that TD Jesus was the second best receiver on the team during camp ?! :roll: )

Julius Peppers ? Whatever.

The guy indirectly points the finger at management inferring that those moves could have won them a super bowl and somehow thinks that being a good locker room guy is more important than getting open on the field. Yet, when said "good guy" wasn't getting open, he would do his lovely, annoyed eyeroll crap on the field.

It's ironic that over the years he has bemoaned the FO for not going all in, yet his idea of all in is bringing back slow, non impact players.

MJ thought the same shit, then bought a team and went out and proved to everyone that he had no f'n clue about player acquisition.

I'll cheer AR on the field, but will also be happy when he is gone. I'd rather see guys striving to be great than bemoaning how they feel under valued.

*slow clap*

[NewsBruin]

Ishmael, thank you for the link to Rodgers' presser.

Rodgers was prepared for this conference, which his agent should do for him when there's tens of millions of dollars at stake. He sounded very comfortable with names and stats (like different seasons' salary caps), and working the current mental-health conversation was well done, as was mentioning his own fault and growth. His goal was to counter the perception that he's a passive-aggressive saboteur with the portrayal of a discreet, experienced, idealist standing up for the everyman player.

(And as someone whose employer strung him along to cut him for someone 15 years younger and $20K cheaper, I want to buy into this.)

Anti-Polar mentions Brady recruiting for Tampa Bay, and that's true. Brady got high-performing, undervalued offensive nomads that the rest of the league considered character risks. Get sued for ejaculating on your personal trainer? As long as you can delay or get a settlement, you can play for the Bucs!

Rodgers wants guys who are good lockerroom influences, even if they can't play at their peak. I'm not sure what all he means, and I'm not sure if a team can afford to stock its roster with guys on the decline, compared to churning with high-upsides. I don't remember if it was Earl Dotson or Edgar Bennett (or someone else) who turned down a salary cut, saying "Once they ask you to take less, they'll see you as less, and they'll never pay you more."

If Rodgers means that he wants Packers players to be released with more respect, I'm all for that. I wish one of the reporters had asked Rodgers if there was an NFL team he could point to that does treat its unsung veterans well; I don't think Rodgers' unicorn exists (possibly Seattle, they do some reclamation. The Raiders will always pay for the last two years of your career). Maybe his next team will take his input better, maybe not.

Rodgers says that he's not responsible for any leaks, especially wanting to be traded on draft day. I find that really hard to believe. There's no benefit to the Packers to leak that. Maybe it came from a rival team that was in contact with Rodgers' agent. Maybe it was his future mother-in-law.

I like the idea that he wants a buddy-buddy lockerroom, but this is the same guy who death-stares his receivers on a bad route or botched catch and comes off as having a dedicated doghouse for Lazard and MVS. I wish he would have been asked about that.

Rating 8/10. Very persuasive, still not sure how true.

[Bretsky]

We'll never know what was actually said about some of the things, but I'm (begrudgingly) on Karrons side when he talks about at least coming to him to talk about cutting a WR. Kumerow is probably on par with Malik Taylor, so what are you gaining by keeping Taylor? They definitely fucked up with Woodson, but they were right on the money with Nelson.

I wonder if he's right that they literally don't even try to use him to recruit FAs? If so, Murphy and Gute should be fired today. He is the second or top reason FAs would go to GB. The other is money.



Kumerow was probably better than Taylor, who sucks. Gutebag probably say, maybe, upside with Taylor. Not worth it though
Wooson was a F'ck up
GB basically axed Jorday (when he was willing to take a huge paycut; some have noted to 5 MIL) and paid Jimmy Jimmy 10MIL/year. I would argue that was a horrid call

[Bretsky]

Woodson was 36 when they released him. Had lost a step and they also had rookie Casey Hayward to play the slot. Did Woodson have another two good years ? Yes he did, but its not like any other team, other then the Raiders, had an interest in him.

Jordy Nelson was 32, a year off an ACL tear and had lost a step. If Nelson was so damned good that last year in GB, why did Rodgers only target him on 88 passes ? Nelson was really, really good until the acl tear and age caught him.

Touchdown Jesus ? Really ? Maybe A-Aron lost his toking partner when they let him go. ( Apparently Rodgers must have smoked a bowl before his presser since he thought, arguably, that TD Jesus was the second best receiver on the team during camp ?! :roll: )

Julius Peppers ? Whatever.

The guy indirectly points the finger at management inferring that those moves could have won them a super bowl and somehow thinks that being a good locker room guy is more important than getting open on the field. Yet, when said "good guy" wasn't getting open, he would do his lovely, annoyed eyeroll crap on the field.

It's ironic that over the years he has bemoaned the FO for not going all in, yet his idea of all in is bringing back slow, non impact players.

MJ thought the same shit, then bought a team and went out and proved to everyone that he had no f'n clue about player acquisition.

I'll cheer AR on the field, but will also be happy when he is gone. I'd rather see guys striving to be great than bemoaning how they feel under valued.



Don't buy this at all

It was a mistake to let Woodson go and I think GB knows it now.
Dumping Jordy to sign Jimmy did not work. He'd have taken a pay cut. But what Gutebag reportedly offered was insulting. More good ammo for AROD
I didn't love Touchdown Jesus; but he was no worse than the guy they kept
They f'cked up by not keeping Peppers for that; he had more good ball left in him in the way GB was using him

His underlying points....GB has set an atmosphere were loyalty and vets are not appreciated............seems like it's at least party legit.

[call_me_ishmael]

Woodson was 36 when they released him. Had lost a step and they also had rookie Casey Hayward to play the slot. Did Woodson have another two good years ? Yes he did, but its not like any other team, other then the Raiders, had an interest in him.

Jordy Nelson was 32, a year off an ACL tear and had lost a step. If Nelson was so damned good that last year in GB, why did Rodgers only target him on 88 passes ? Nelson was really, really good until the acl tear and age caught him.

Touchdown Jesus ? Really ? Maybe A-Aron lost his toking partner when they let him go. ( Apparently Rodgers must have smoked a bowl before his presser since he thought, arguably, that TD Jesus was the second best receiver on the team during camp ?! :roll: )

Julius Peppers ? Whatever.

The guy indirectly points the finger at management inferring that those moves could have won them a super bowl and somehow thinks that being a good locker room guy is more important than getting open on the field. Yet, when said "good guy" wasn't getting open, he would do his lovely, annoyed eyeroll crap on the field.

It's ironic that over the years he has bemoaned the FO for not going all in, yet his idea of all in is bringing back slow, non impact players.

MJ thought the same shit, then bought a team and went out and proved to everyone that he had no f'n clue about player acquisition.

I'll cheer AR on the field, but will also be happy when he is gone. I'd rather see guys striving to be great than bemoaning how they feel under valued.

And yet with making those moves they had a shitty 2017-2019 and didn’t win a super bowl. Maybe they would have won one if they went for it for a change instead of focusing on staying young and consistently above average instead of risking being great.

[Upnorth]

And yet with making those moves they had a shitty 2017-2019 and didn’t win a super bowl. Maybe they would have won one if they went for it for a change instead of focusing on staying young and consistently above average instead of risking being great.

Or switched mcarthy earlier

[red]

Or switched mcarthy earlier
Now you gotta start wondering if McCarthy felt the same way those last few years and was just phoning it in.

He knew as much as Rodgers what all those guys ment to his team

Was he being consulted at all, or was he being told to just shut up and coach the team?

You wouldn't think a coach would want to get rid of all his leaders

[Freak Out]

Man, sort of sad but I also hope they _finally_ go all in and win it. They probably will be ass for at least a year or two with Love just like they were with Rodgers so I think it makes sense to load up this year and pay the bill down the road. Get that title. Bretsky is right. Life is about winning championships. Sick of being the bridesmaid but never the bride.

All in how? Trade for some crazy defensive talent? What does it mean? Cobb? lol

[call_me_ishmael]

All in how? Trade for some crazy defensive talent? What does it mean? Cobb? lol

They essentially did go all in this year pushing everything down the road.

Inevitably when some quality player ends up available mid-season, I'd like to pursue that if it makes the team better. I think they will do that. It's super bowl or bust then break-up, so might as well get the bowl.

[Jaire]

All in how? Trade for some crazy defensive talent? What does it mean? Cobb? lol

Just read a little rumor that AR is gunning for another big addition. .....just why is he holding out on a restructure?????

Is it that now with GB at the edge in cap gives him a card finally? No restructure unless AR gets his man?

Just speculation. (And this goes much deeper too. Lots not being said still. Remember AR wanted Skittles in 2010.)

[Fritz]

Woodson was 36 when they released him. Had lost a step and they also had rookie Casey Hayward to play the slot. Did Woodson have another two good years ? Yes he did, but its not like any other team, other then the Raiders, had an interest in him.

Jordy Nelson was 32, a year off an ACL tear and had lost a step. If Nelson was so damned good that last year in GB, why did Rodgers only target him on 88 passes ? Nelson was really, really good until the acl tear and age caught him.

Touchdown Jesus ? Really ? Maybe A-Aron lost his toking partner when they let him go. ( Apparently Rodgers must have smoked a bowl before his presser since he thought, arguably, that TD Jesus was the second best receiver on the team during camp ?! :roll: )

Julius Peppers ? Whatever.

The guy indirectly points the finger at management inferring that those moves could have won them a super bowl and somehow thinks that being a good locker room guy is more important than getting open on the field. Yet, when said "good guy" wasn't getting open, he would do his lovely, annoyed eyeroll crap on the field.

It's ironic that over the years he has bemoaned the FO for not going all in, yet his idea of all in is bringing back slow, non impact players.

MJ thought the same shit, then bought a team and went out and proved to everyone that he had no f'n clue about player acquisition.

I'll cheer AR on the field, but will also be happy when he is gone. I'd rather see guys striving to be great than bemoaning how they feel under valued.

I think Sparkey has really nailed it with this post. You can quibble with some of the details, but the fact of the matter remains that had the Packers done all that, they'd have been even older and slower than they were when they got blown out by a much faster Atlanta Falcons team in the NFC Championship game in, what, the 2016 season?

Sounds like the ghost of the late George Allen and his "Over the Hill Gang" is the influence for Arod's player personnel ideas.

[RashanGary]

I think Sparkey has really nailed it with this post. You can quibble with some of the details, but the fact of the matter remains that had the Packers done all that, they'd have been even older and slower than they were when they got blown out by a much faster Atlanta Falcons team in the NFC Championship game in, what, the 2016 season?

Sounds like the ghost of the late George Allen and his "Over the Hill Gang" is the influence for Arod's player personnel ideas.

Yep. Rodgers gets attached to guys and doesn't want to see them go.

Jordy for 5 instead of Graham at 10 made sense for a year or two
Hayward should have stayed
Hyde should have stayed



Other than that, the FO made mostly right moves. We would have been worse with ARs plan than with Gutes.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Yep. Rodgers gets attached to guys and doesn't want to see them go.

Jordy for 5 instead of Graham at 10 made sense for a year or two
Hayward should have stayed
Hyde should have stayed



Other than that, the FO made mostly right moves. We would have been worse with ARs plan than with Gutes.

If you look at all cuts of veteran players from all teams you'll find that about 40% of them are "wrong", in that players continue in productive careers.

I hate how the NFL works, but the second guessing is tedious. EXCEPT in the case of Jared Cook where those fuckers really fucked up.


ps. pbmax was the chief defender of that Jared Cook cut. now he's gone and hiding in shame.

[hoosier]

GMing is like baseball: even the best are going to swing and miss more often than we would like. Tony Gwynn whiffed three times in a game once in his career. That was his Jared Cook.

[RashanGary]

GMing is like baseball: even the best are going to swing and miss more often than we would like. Tony Gwynn whiffed three times in a game once in his career. That was his Jared Cook.

It's crazy that my least common ground FYI posters are the most reasonable packer posters.

It's the same as nitpicking Brady or Rodgers on the multiple interception games. It happens to the best.

[Bretsky]

Yep. Rodgers gets attached to guys and doesn't want to see them go.

Jordy for 5 instead of Graham at 10 made sense for a year or two
Hayward should have stayed
Hyde should have stayed



Other than that, the FO made mostly right moves. We would have been worse with ARs plan than with Gutes.



To me keeping Julius Peppers at 3MIL/ Year for another year was a way easier call than some of the others

[call_me_ishmael]

To me keeping Julius Peppers at 3MIL/ Year for another year was a way easier call than some of the others

He's Julius Freaking Peppers, one of the greatest athletes EVER. I am sure he could still suit up and be a deal at 3M. I'd call him if I am loading up for the last dance. Probably has fresh legs.

[Fritz]

After reading about AR's press conference, I do see a little more his point of view. For the team to not see him as an asset in recruiting free agents or at least keeping him informed of hires/draft picks is short-sighted at best, and really just plain stupid. Do you need his approval for every move? No. But if you can use him to recruit free agents at the cost of keeping Jake Kumerow rather than Malik Taylor (or whoever the end-of-roster receiver was at the moment) and calling Rodgers to let him know you're drafting a QB or hiring Coach X, that's not too big a price to pay.

Ted Thompson was a great talent evaluator before the dementia began to catch up to him, and he constructed some really good rosters while keeping the Packers in good cap shape along the way. But he was also short-sighted and not attuned to the way the game (and our culture) was changing. Some of this is on him, though he was from an older generation - like many of us, he just couldn't adapt to the changes brought on by the younger generations.

But Gutekunst was supposed to be the next-gen guy, and it sounds like he's worse than Ted. Rodgers seemed to have some grudging respect for Ted, though he also seems to have had some resentment, but as for Gutekunst, Rodgers seems to think he's just a dildo. Gutes could have come in to the GM role playing the good guy role - "Hey, Aaron, I know Ted was all old-school, but I get how important you are to the franchise and I'd like some input on _____ and I wonder if you'd like to help us recruit _____ to come play in Green Bay." Instead, he sounds like an old-school "I'm the boss and you're the employee" type.

The jury's still out on Gutekunst as GM, but the way he's botched the Rodgers situation is a severe black mark.

Having said that, while it may have benefitted the Packers to keep Hyde (though why the defensive coaches couldn't see he was a safety is beyond me) and a couple others for an extra year, had they kept all the vets Rodgers mentioned, they'd be old, slow, and cap-heavy, with no extra SB's to show for it. I think there's some space between doing everything Rodgers wants them to and doing nothing at all that he would like. The Kumerow thing was bad - the day after Rodgers touted Kumerow, they cut him? Without a call to explain to your HOF QB why you're cutting the guy he just finished praising?

[King Friday]

Yeah, Gute does not come out of this looking strong at this point. He had to cave and do something he had no interest in doing just to get Rodgers back in the fold. His interviews are filled with numerous short, choppy responses...very cold and robotic. I expect this to some extent from that position, but in light of the current situation, it is alarming that Gute has no desire or ability to eke out even a little emotion and empathy.

While I can see where Rodgers is coming from, and he certainly deserves the right to give input and have his viewpoint considered when making certain moves on the roster, building a team is not about merely keeping a bunch of cohesive veterans together. With the cap, you have to sometimes cut someone you may want to keep in order to have the funds to sign this other guy 2-3 years from now. It's not like the front office is making decisions on who to keep only when their contract comes up. They are looking out 3-5 years to see who they want to keep long term and who they need to pay to make that happen. Rodgers seems completely oblivious to this reality.

I'm sure the Packers would love to keep Adams going forward. However, if it comes down to a choice of paying Adams now or having the funds to pay Jaire later... I'm going with Jaire. He's younger and will help the team more long term. That's the kind of approach a front office takes, not merely an immediate look at can we stuff this guy under our cap. The Packers use excess cap room now to help fund how they pay for guys in the future. If Rodgers thinks the front office business is only about stuffing as many guys under the cap as you can now, he is incredibly naive.

[Sparkey]

All of those people bashing Gutes for not communicating info to Rodgers: It really is on Murphy, since he is the so called roof of the three silo system.

This is more of an indictment of the decision making silo system Murphy installed and a flaw of a system that does not have a GM that takes care of all football stuff.

https://zonecoverage.com/2021/packers/what-aaron-rodgers-was-really-saying-at-his-press-conference/

After reading this, it sort of confirms my thoughts that ever since Bob Harlan left, the main issue is Murphy. The obvious take on the SILO system is that Murphy consolidated control over the team with that move. Bob Harlan always let football guys take care of football and business guys, like himself, deal with the other side. However since Murphy played and was an AD for so long, I think he operates as a defacto "owner" er micro manager.

[Fritz]

All of those people bashing Gutes for not communicating info to Rodgers: It really is on Murphy, since he is the so called roof of the three silo system.

This is more of an indictment of the decision making silo system Murphy installed and a flaw of a system that does not have a GM that takes care of all football stuff.

https://zonecoverage.com/2021/packers/what-aaron-rodgers-was-really-saying-at-his-press-conference/

After reading this, it sort of confirms my thoughts that ever since Bob Harlan left, the main issue is Murphy. The obvious take on the SILO system is that Murphy consolidated control over the team with that move. Bob Harlan always let football guys take care of football and business guys, like himself, deal with the other side. However since Murphy played and was an AD for so long, I think he operates as a defacto "owner" er micro manager.


Another good post from Sparkey. PBMax, when he was around, was highly critical of the three-heaed silo, and it does seem Murphy has created a system that isolates all parties. Gutes is not my favorite part of the equation, but Murphy created this system.

[Sparkey]

With Rodgers reworked contract, In 2022 the Packers will be almost 50 million over the projected 208.2 million dollar cap. This really is the "last dance" with this group. Rodgers cap hit in 2022 will be around 46 million.

[Tony Oday]

With Rodgers reworked contract, In 2022 the Packers will be almost 50 million over the projected 208.2 million dollar cap. This really is the "last dance" with this group.

Good. Honestly I would LOVE to see Love start, a mountain of picks and prospects for AR, DA, ZS.

[Spaulding]

The likely prospect of this being the last dance would hurt a lot more if Rodgers wasn't in the twilight of his career and Adams wasn't going to be on the wrong side of 30 for the vast majority of a max contract. Guess next year is the step back after three steps forward over the past two years and hopefully this coming year.

Two years ago the team took a step forward to the NFC Championship game but were clearly outclassed.

One year some would say it wasn't a step forward but it felt like it was out year and the team certainly had chances to win the Tampa game and thus in my eyes although not a win, a small step forward as it indicated we belonged there.

This year, hopefully the final step back to the Super Bowl and a 5th title.

If this isn't all in I don't know what is given the signing of Cobb and Kelly and the pushing of more money to the cap strapped 2022 season.

[HarveyWallbangers]

With Rodgers reworked contract, In 2022 the Packers will be almost 50 million over the projected 208.2 million dollar cap. This really is the "last dance" with this group. Rodgers cap hit in 2022 will be around 46 million.

There are easy ways to get by that--especially if Rodgers isn't here. We would be able to kick the can another year--like we did this year--when the salary cap should skyrocket. That's assuming the Wuhan Virus doesn't ruin another season. From what I've read:

Cutting Preston Smith would save $12M.
Cutting Randall Cobb would save $8M.
Restructuring Kenny Clark and Bakh would save $12M.
Extending Big Z, Jaire, and Amos could save $20M.
What is Adams cap hit next year? I'm guessing extending him might free up space next year.

Finally, trading Rodgers would free up $17M.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Adams cap hit next season? His contract expires after this season. If 12 returns and the 3 headed monster of Ball/Gutekumst/Murphy refuses to make 17 the highest paid Wr in the universe, the Pack can always tag 17.

Tag should be around 18-21M.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Adams cap hit next season? His contract expires after this season.

Doh

[texaspackerbacker]

With Rodgers reworked contract, In 2022 the Packers will be almost 50 million over the projected 208.2 million dollar cap. This really is the "last dance" with this group. Rodgers cap hit in 2022 will be around 46 million.

That's pretty much the numbers I heard too. Somebody tell me, given that huge cap number in '22, how in the hell are they gonna trade him? Who could, much less would give a shitload in trade for that kind of a cap hit even for the GOAT who still likely will be playing GOAT-quality football?

The answer, of course, would be a massive long term extension and restructure. So if whatever other team would do that - and give multiple first round draft picks besides, why wouldn't the Packers do the same thing beyond this season? Answer, sadly, the only people making those kinds of decision are too damn dumb to do the obvious thing.

[Jaire]

That's pretty much the numbers I heard too. Somebody tell me, given that huge cap number in '22, how in the hell are they gonna trade him? Who could, much less would give a shitload in trade for that kind of a cap hit even for the GOAT who still likely will be playing GOAT-quality football?

The answer, of course, would be a massive long term extension and restructure. So if whatever other team would do that - and give multiple first round draft picks besides, why wouldn't the Packers do the same thing beyond this season? Answer, sadly, the only people making those kinds of decision are too damn dumb to do the obvious thing.


If Rodgers is traded, our hit is around 27 million I believe. The other team gets a steal: 26.5 million salary. It's set up for a very sweet trade.

[Jaire]

As a quick cap fix:

Trade Rodgers (20m)
Cut Cobb (8m)
Cut Preston (12m)
New contract with Jaire (13m)


Not saying we have to do this but all four of these contracts are getting reworked assuredly. That puts us 10m under the cap. 2023 has a lot of money available and will see a huge bump in cap.

It's not that dire at all. Just next year is tricky. Also I think 2022 will see a bigger bump than to 210m. There is no reason not to think that outside another shut down which I don't foresee (not for the v@xxxed at least).

Edit: my cap numbers are off a bit. I don't have the latest. Still 3million under. The only real decision I see is what to do with Za' Darius. It's NOT a blow it all up by any means. They have the foubdation and nucleus going forward for the next 4 years. I do think (and have thought so all year) that Adams is gone. I love Adams but WR is easy to replace in MLF's system. Edge, NT, CB, LT QB are still the premiums. Adams has simply outpriced his value to the team. They will have to draft another next year but that's the only "must draft" position or FA.

The tricky part would be bringing back AR but it can be done and he is much more valuable than Davante.

[texaspackerbacker]

If Rodgers is traded, our hit is around 27 million I believe. The other team gets a steal: 26.5 million salary. It's set up for a very sweet trade.

So you're saying the Packers throw away the foreseeable future by trading Rodgers, and they STILL have a $27 million cap hit? Sheeeeeeesh! And Gutekunst is such a damn jackass that he is pushing for something that rotten?

[texaspackerbacker]

As a quick cap fix:

Trade Rodgers (20m)
Cut Cobb (8m)
Cut Preston (12m)
New contract with Jaire (13m)


Not saying we have to do this but all four of these contracts are getting reworked assuredly. That puts us 10m under the cap. 2023 has a lot of money available and will see a huge bump in cap.

It's not that dire at all. Just next year is tricky. Also I think 2022 will see a bigger bump than to 210m. There is no reason not to think that outside another shut down which I don't foresee (not for the v@xxxed at least).

Edit: my cap numbers are off a bit. I don't have the latest. Still 3million under. The only real decision I see is what to do with Za' Darius. It's NOT a blow it all up by any means. They have the foubdation and nucleus going forward for the next 4 years. I do think (and have thought so all year) that Adams is gone. I love Adams but WR is easy to replace in MLF's system. Edge, NT, CB, LT QB are still the premiums. Adams has simply outpriced his value to the team. They will have to draft another next year but that's the only "must draft" position or FA.

The tricky part would be bringing back AR but it can be done and he is much more valuable than Davante.

I like what you have to say. I'd vote for you to be GM. However, the only way that "tricky part" ever happens is if God damned Gutekunst is on board to make it happen, and it looks strongly like the bastard is not.

[King Friday]

So you're saying the Packers throw away the foreseeable future by trading Rodgers, and they STILL have a $27 million cap hit? Sheeeeeeesh! And Gutekunst is such a damn jackass that he is pushing for something that rotten?

$8M of that is Cobb...who Gute had no interest in bringing back.

[call_me_ishmael]

A really interesting question for me right now is let's say ARod has an MVP year and Love sucks it up in limited action in preseason. What do the Packers do next year?

Conventional wisdom says they've already agreed to deal him, but what if they're in a really tough spot? Do they try and retain him like they did this year? Do they strong arm him and force him to retire if he won't play, etc? Could be really interesting.

Would the Packers do right by Rodgers and give him an extension in that case so he's not a lame duck?

[Upnorth]

A really interesting question for me right now is let's say ARod has an MVP year and Love sucks it up in limited action in preseason. What do the Packers do next year?

Conventional wisdom says they've already agreed to deal him, but what if they're in a really tough spot? Do they try and retain him like they did this year? Do they strong arm him and force him to retire if he won't play, etc? Could be really interesting.

Would the Packers do right by Rodgers and give him an extension in that case so he's not a lame duck?

If love sucks yes you fight like he'll to some how keep rodgers, and try to draft our future #1 as well.
I dont like the phrase do right by though. Dude has made millions with them. He is not struggling.

[Joemailman]

Love would have to be really bad for them to give up on him. If that happens though, they might trade Rodgers and use pick(s) they got for him to move way up in the 1st round to draft a top QB.

[King Friday]

Would the Packers do right by Rodgers and give him an extension in that case so he's not a lame duck?

There seems to be little desire from the front office side to adjust how they approach business, and that appears to be Rodgers' largest sticking point. Both sides have some validity to their arguments...the FO should seek a HOF caliber QB's advice at times, and Rodgers should recognize that building the roster is more than about right now.

I suppose Love looking horrible is possible, but I don't expect that. He is a talented kid, and the offense has a lot of capable weapons. The Packers expect Love to be ready next year, although my guess was that they hoped to get one more year out of Rodgers after this season. Since they are likely to get a good return on a trade for Rodgers if they have to move him, I don't feel the team is nervous about the transition. The team will take a step back, but will be ready to take a step forward again sooner than if Love was not on the roster right now.

At this point I am about 50-50 on whether Rodgers retires after the season or moves on. It appears he seriously considered retirement, and moving to a new team would be a lot more work for him. If he wins a 2nd title, does he just call it quits?

[texaspackerbacker]

A really interesting question for me right now is let's say ARod has an MVP year and Love sucks it up in limited action in preseason. What do the Packers do next year?

Conventional wisdom says they've already agreed to deal him, but what if they're in a really tough spot? Do they try and retain him like they did this year? Do they strong arm him and force him to retire if he won't play, etc? Could be really interesting.

Would the Packers do right by Rodgers and give him an extension in that case so he's not a lame duck?

First of all, it's not a matter of "doing right by Rodgers". It's a matter of maximizing the prospect of winning games. That is true whether "Love sucks", as I don't think he will or Love is decent to excellent, the range I expect him to fall in. Either way, the best course is to hold onto him and find out how good Love is in 3-5 years - or more.

Have the Packers agreed to "deal him" to get him into camp? Believing that is basically calling Rodgers a liar, probably calling Gutekunst and Murphy liars too. I know for a fact Rodgers said otherwise. Gutekunst just kinda sidestepped the question.

Picture the Packers 5 years from now. Will the Packers be better off with Rodgers still the QB, presumably still going strong at basically the age Brady was last season? Or with Love in his 2nd or 3rd or 4th season as a starter and a shitload (probably smaller shitload than some expect) of high draft picks? I say slam dunk sure, the former - both in 5 years and all the time getting to that 5 year mark.

[texaspackerbacker]

There seems to be little desire from the front office side to adjust how they approach business, and that appears to be Rodgers' largest sticking point. Both sides have some validity to their arguments...the FO should seek a HOF caliber QB's advice at times, and Rodgers should recognize that building the roster is more than about right now.

I suppose Love looking horrible is possible, but I don't expect that. He is a talented kid, and the offense has a lot of capable weapons. The Packers expect Love to be ready next year, although my guess was that they hoped to get one more year out of Rodgers after this season. Since they are likely to get a good return on a trade for Rodgers if they have to move him, I don't feel the team is nervous about the transition. The team will take a step back, but will be ready to take a step forward again sooner than if Love was not on the roster right now.

At this point I am about 50-50 on whether Rodgers retires after the season or moves on. It appears he seriously considered retirement, and moving to a new team would be a lot more work for him. If he wins a 2nd title, does he just call it quits?

I hate to say it, but I think you're right about the mindset of the Packer leadership. Love being "ready", even the best anybody could expect from him would be very much below the level of Aaron Rodgers even if he deteriorates a bit.

Myself, whether it's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or more years from now, I'd rather see Rodgers retire than go either by trade or free agency to another team. Shoving him out the door makes less sense than being a "seller" at the trade deadline in baseball. If I was a Cubs or Rangers or Nationals fan, I'd be talking about lynching the GM, etc.

[call_me_ishmael]

Picture the Packers 5 years from now. Will the Packers be better off with Rodgers still the QB, presumably still going strong at basically the age Brady was last season? Or with Love in his 2nd or 3rd or 4th season as a starter and a shitload (probably smaller shitload than some expect) of high draft picks? I say slam dunk sure, the former - both in 5 years and all the time getting to that 5 year mark.

Honestly Tex, I have to say I think this is spot on. Maybe not 5 years, but certainly 3 in my eyes.

[Fritz]

There seems to be little desire from the front office side to adjust how they approach business, and that appears to be Rodgers' largest sticking point. Both sides have some validity to their arguments...the FO should seek a HOF caliber QB's advice at times, and Rodgers should recognize that building the roster is more than about right now.

I suppose Love looking horrible is possible, but I don't expect that. He is a talented kid, and the offense has a lot of capable weapons. The Packers expect Love to be ready next year, although my guess was that they hoped to get one more year out of Rodgers after this season. Since they are likely to get a good return on a trade for Rodgers if they have to move him, I don't feel the team is nervous about the transition. The team will take a step back, but will be ready to take a step forward again sooner than if Love was not on the roster right now.

At this point I am about 50-50 on whether Rodgers retires after the season or moves on. It appears he seriously considered retirement, and moving to a new team would be a lot more work for him. If he wins a 2nd title, does he just call it quits?


Knowing that Rodgers is highly motivated by what he perceives as slights and mistreatment, I would be surprised if he retired after this year, no matter what happens. My guess is that if he's not happy with the front office changes - which do seem superficial at this point, as Gutes seems to be pretending to accommondate Rodgers while being sure everyone knows he's the number one decision-maker - then Rodgers will make things as miserable as he can until they trade him

[Upnorth]

If Rodgers is still playing for the Packers in 5 years I will be shocked. If he is in the league I think I will be shocked. 43 has been kind to 1 qb in history. That is an exception, not a rule

[Harlan Huckleby]

If Rodgers is still playing for the Packers in 5 years I will be shocked. If he is in the league I think I will be shocked. 43 has been kind to 1 qb in history. That is an exception, not a rule

unless he learns to kick field goals like Blanda.

Since AR is already giving serious consideration to retirement it's unlikely he'll want to start over with a new team.

Although I respect AR's position & sincerity I am on the side of the rich, white males who run the Packers. They didn't fuck up. They undoubtedly knew damn well AR's position on all the vets they shipped out . They just had a different opinion. They were right more often than wrong.

[bobblehead]

A really interesting question for me right now is let's say ARod has an MVP year and Love sucks it up in limited action in preseason. What do the Packers do next year?

Conventional wisdom says they've already agreed to deal him, but what if they're in a really tough spot? Do they try and retain him like they did this year? Do they strong arm him and force him to retire if he won't play, etc? Could be really interesting.

Would the Packers do right by Rodgers and give him an extension in that case so he's not a lame duck?

Look, this was always about Rodgers forcing a long term commitment. He got them to lop off the last year, so now they have to negotiate with him now on a new 4 year deal. Both sides know the score. If Love isn't a stud by end of season they will give Rodgers a total record deal replacing the last year of his contract. $165 million for 4 years with $80 million locked in. Rodgers is part owner of the Bucks. His legacy is Green Bay. He knows it. He never intended to leave. If he has an off year and Love looks awesome is the only way he is dealt. He is pissed about them making a contingency plan and he leveraged his MVP season. If he cared about Jordy he would have said something then. He only cares because this time it was him.

[texaspackerbacker]

unless he learns to kick field goals like Blanda.

Since AR is already giving serious consideration to retirement it's unlikely he'll want to start over with a new team.

Although I respect AR's position & sincerity I am on the side of the rich, white males who run the Packers. They didn't fuck up. They undoubtedly knew damn well AR's position on all the vets they shipped out . They just had a different opinion. They were right more often than wrong.

The way he throws and golfs, I bet he could hahahahaha.

It's a different era now, for QBs anyway - rules keeping them from taking a lot of formerly legal hits, O Linemen allowed to get away with what used to be holding, etc. I've said consistently, and it's damn true, Rodgers is both physically and mentally better than Brady. If Brady can still play as well as he did at 43, Rodgers certainly can play better and longer - barring some freak injury that could hit anybody anytime. On top of that, I think he's ego-driven to outdo Brady.

Bobblehead, I HOPE you are right - about his wanting to negotiate "4 more years" (disclaimer: this is NOT politics hahahaha). More importantly, will the team leadership negotiate that kind of a deal? Or will they prove to be the dumbasses they so far seem to be?

[Harlan Huckleby]

rules keeping them from taking a lot of formerly legal hits, O Linemen allowed to get away with what used to be holding, etc.

That is a legit point. Tom Brady wouldn't survive so long in 1970s.

It's an open question whether a lot of QBs will be playing into their 40s. I doubt it. Late 30s is already later than in old days. (Warren Moon was a REAL freak of nature, come to think of it, he took a lot of punishment.)

[Guiness]

That is a legit point. Tom Brady wouldn't survive so long in 1970s.

It's an open question whether a lot of QBs will be playing into their 40s. I doubt it. Late 30s is already later than in old days. (Warren Moon was a REAL freak of nature, come to think of it, he took a lot of punishment.)

I can't imagine Brady or Rodgers absorbing the punishment and lasting as long as guys like Moon and Favre did, but who knows. I don't think anybody doubts their competitiveness, I just think those two guys in particular had an incredible ability to play through anything.

Having said that, Peyton played until he was 39, Brees 41. Roethlisberger is 39 this year. I think we'll see more franchise guys that can hold onto their skills play into their 40s.

[bobblehead]

The way he throws and golfs, I bet he could hahahahaha.

It's a different era now, for QBs anyway - rules keeping them from taking a lot of formerly legal hits, O Linemen allowed to get away with what used to be holding, etc. I've said consistently, and it's damn true, Rodgers is both physically and mentally better than Brady. If Brady can still play as well as he did at 43, Rodgers certainly can play better and longer - barring some freak injury that could hit anybody anytime. On top of that, I think he's ego-driven to outdo Brady.

Bobblehead, I HOPE you are right - about his wanting to negotiate "4 more years" (disclaimer: this is NOT politics hahahaha). More importantly, will the team leadership negotiate that kind of a deal? Or will they prove to be the dumbasses they so far seem to be?

Dumbasses who hired one of the best young coaches in the game and have produced back to back NFCC games. The 2nd of which would have been a win if someone had ran for the endzone on 2nd or 3rd down.

[jklowan]

Look, this was always about Rodgers forcing a long term commitment. He got them to lop off the last year, so now they have to negotiate with him now on a new 4 year deal. Both sides know the score. If Love isn't a stud by end of season they will give Rodgers a total record deal replacing the last year of his contract. $165 million for 4 years with $80 million locked in. Rodgers is part owner of the Bucks. His legacy is Green Bay. He knows it. He never intended to leave. If he has an off year and Love looks awesome is the only way he is dealt. He is pissed about them making a contingency plan and he leveraged his MVP season. If he cared about Jordy he would have said something then. He only cares because this time it was him.

Don't usually agree with you but this I think is spot on

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Dumbasses who hired one of the best young coaches in the game and have produced back to back NFCC games. The 2nd of which would have been a win if someone had ran for the endzone on 2nd or 3rd down.

You’re babbling about the dumbass frog coach who waved the white flag by sending in the fg unit?

Watch the all-22 film of the 3rd down play prior to LaFleur’s ‘surrender monkey’ decision. 12 was surrounded by pirates. Likely woulda been stopped short at the 3 or 2.

As a shutdown corner in HS who shut down Darren Charles in a game, I learned that in 4th and goal situations inside the 10 where there’s a high probability of the 4th down play being a pass, the offense benefits more by being further back from the endzone. More room for the receivers to operate.

Packers woulda been better off running an obvious passing play from the 6 than the 3. Moot point, as the Frog cowardly surrendered like his French ancestors once did at the Battle of Los Angeles, which, btw, greatly inspired Rage Against the Machine.

[SudsMcBucky]

Look, this was always about Rodgers forcing a long term commitment. He got them to lop off the last year, so now they have to negotiate with him now on a new 4 year deal. Both sides know the score. If Love isn't a stud by end of season they will give Rodgers a total record deal replacing the last year of his contract. $165 million for 4 years with $80 million locked in. Rodgers is part owner of the Bucks. His legacy is Green Bay. He knows it. He never intended to leave. If he has an off year and Love looks awesome is the only way he is dealt. He is pissed about them making a contingency plan and he leveraged his MVP season. If he cared about Jordy he would have said something then. He only cares because this time it was him.

Then why didn't he sign the 5 year contract that would've made him the highest paid player in the league?

[bobblehead]

You talking about the dumbass frog coach who waved the white flag by sending in the fg unit?

Watch the all-22 film of the 3rd down play prior to LaFleur’s ‘surrender monkey’ decision. 12 was surrounded by pirates. Likely woulda been stopped short at the 3 or 2.

As a shutdown corner in HS who shut down Darren Charles in a game, I learned that in 4th and goal situations inside the 10 where there’s a high probability of the 4th down play being a pass, the offense benefits more by being further back from the endzone. More room for the receivers to operate.

Packers woulda been better off running an obvious passing play from the 6 than the 3. Moot point, as the Frog cowardly surrendered like his French ancestors once did at the Battle of Los Angeles, which, btw, greatly inspired Rage Against the Machine.

If the ball had been run to the 3 yard line when Rodgers had the chance do you think we kick the FG on 4th? If he ran to the 3 on 2nd down, maybe he would have avoided the decision altogether on 3rd down.

Kicking the FG in that scenario was correct. Down 8 we had to convert 4th and 9 AND the 2pt just to tie it. THEN we needed a stop.

Kick the FG down 5 we needed a stop. That doesn't change. Now if Rodgers can put it into the endzone with a fresh setup its a win. Don't even need the PAT at that point.

Bottom line is the D didn't get the stop. If we had tied it with a miracle 4th and 9 TD AND gotten the deuce and then didn't get a stop we lose to a FG. We needed a stop either way.

Oh...and fail on 4th like we did on 1st, 2nd and 3rd, game is over unless...you guessed it, we get a stop, a TD AND a 2pt. Then we get to OT.

Game theory says kick the FG. But if its 4th and 3....game theory odds might tilt to going for it.

[Bossman641]

Then why didn't he sign the 5 year contract that would've made him the highest paid player in the league?

My guess is there wasn't enough guaranteed money. They must likely structured it as throwing additional money his way but still having some outs. Rodgers seems to be looking for 3-5 years fully guaranteed.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

If the ball had been run to the 3 yard line when Rodgers had the chance do you think we kick the FG on 4th? If he ran to the 3 on 2nd down, maybe he would have avoided the decision altogether on 3rd down.

Kicking the FG in that scenario was correct. Down 8 we had to convert 4th and 9 AND the 2pt just to tie it. THEN we needed a stop.

Kick the FG down 5 we needed a stop. That doesn't change. Now if Rodgers can put it into the endzone with a fresh setup its a win. Don't even need the PAT at that point.

Bottom line is the D didn't get the stop. If we had tied it with a miracle 4th and 9 TD AND gotten the deuce and then didn't get a stop we lose to a FG. We needed a stop either way.

Oh...and fail on 4th like we did on 1st, 2nd and 3rd, game is over unless...you guessed it, we get a stop, a TD AND a 2pt. Then we get to OT.

Game theory says kick the FG. But if its 4th and 3....game theory odds might tilt to going for it.

Your understanding of game theory ain’t up to date, hombre.

On 4th down, the Packers had a 10.8 percent chance of winning the game had they gone for it. 7.8 percent with a field goal. Furthermore, Josh Fucking Rosen wasn’t playing QB for the Pack that day. In case you haven’t heard, the Great Arm of Butte is pretty good. With 12, there was a 33 percent chance the Packers woulda scored a TD on 4th down, which was above the 20 percent threshold to justify going for it in such situation.

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/.amp/news/heres-the-analytics-against-lafleurs-fourth-down-decision

[Fritz]

Look, this was always about Rodgers forcing a long term commitment. He got them to lop off the last year, so now they have to negotiate with him now on a new 4 year deal. Both sides know the score. If Love isn't a stud by end of season they will give Rodgers a total record deal replacing the last year of his contract. $165 million for 4 years with $80 million locked in. Rodgers is part owner of the Bucks. His legacy is Green Bay. He knows it. He never intended to leave. If he has an off year and Love looks awesome is the only way he is dealt. He is pissed about them making a contingency plan and he leveraged his MVP season. If he cared about Jordy he would have said something then. He only cares because this time it was him.

So from your perspective, when Rodgers said his refusing of the Packers' offseason offer proved it wasn't about the money, it was because the offer was just a raise and not an extension?

As for the boldfaced part above, I would suggest that since Rodgers wants more say in personnel matters, they make him part of the Russ Ball salary cap team, so that when Rodgers wants the team to re-sign an aging veteran friend of his, they can ask him to "help us understand how this will fit under the cap, both long- and short-term, given our quarterback's rather large chunk of said cap."

[bobblehead]

Your understanding of game theory ain’t up to date, hombre.

On 4th down, the Packers had a 10.8 percent chance of winning the game had they gone for it. 7.8 percent with a field goal. Furthermore, Josh Fucking Rosen wasn’t playing QB for the Pack that day. In case you haven’t heard, the Great Arm of Butte is pretty good. With 12, there was a 33 percent chance the Packers woulda scored a TD on 4th down, which was above the 20 percent threshold to justify going for it in such situation.

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/.amp/news/heres-the-analytics-against-lafleurs-fourth-down-decision

Nice thing about game theory. The input measures determine how it games out. If you factor that 4th and 9 as the same as any down getting 9 yards, or do you use historical data? Do you calculate 3 yards on any goal line situation or do you use only 2pt conversions (or do you use getting 3 yards from anywhere anytime)? Do you factor in the fact that refs swallow the whistle on PI in those scenarios historically?

I stand by my own analysis. Rodgers should have shown some heart on 2nd down, or even 3rd down if he wanted to go for it on 4th down.

Show me real data saying that scoring a TD on 4th and 9 is over 15% (as it would have to be likely 40% to give you a 10.8% chance to win considering the other things you need to happen) I'm not buying your authors conclusion. Now if he is using the odds of getting 9 yards on any given play from anywhere on the field....maybe.

[bobblehead]

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2021/01/packers-aaron-rodgers-everyone-questioned-incompletion-nfc-title-game

So Rodgers admits he pussied out on running it cuz he figured he'd have another shot. That is just piss poor.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Your understanding of game theory ain’t up to date, hombre.

On 4th down, the Packers had a 10.8 percent chance of winning the game had they gone for it. 7.8 percent with a field goal. Furthermore, Josh Fucking Rosen wasn’t playing QB for the Pack that day. In case you haven’t heard, the Great Arm of Butte is pretty good. With 12, there was a 33 percent chance the Packers woulda scored a TD on 4th down, which was above the 20 percent threshold to justify going for it in such situation.

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/.amp/news/heres-the-analytics-against-lafleurs-fourth-down-decision

You cherry pick one analytics site.

ESPN's analytics slightly favored going for it.


WP go: 10.0%
WP kick: 9.5%

https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/matt-lafleur-aaron-rodgers-nfc-championship-fourth-down-field-goal/


Another source of in-game win probability information, DeckPrism Sports, which supplies in-game odds to sports betting operations, had win probabilities with two differences from the other sources. It had a much higher win probability for the Packers whether Green Bay attempted the field goal or went for it and it also calculated LaFleur’s optimal choice being to kick.


Green Bay gains 2.5% win chance, 27.5% vs 25%, by kicking a field goal 4th and goal from 8. Been awhile since FG was correct, but Lafleur nails it.

Our live odds would have had it breakeven at the 4.5 yard line. ie kick from the 5, go for it from the 4.


So, while it is true that the Packers would have had a stronger incentive to go for the touchdown if Rodgers had scrambled on third down, the SIS model indicates that the Packers still had an uphill battle, which relates back to what Walder said:

Scoring a touchdown would’ve still required a two-point conversion to tie, and even if the game was tied, Tom Brady’s Buccaneers would’ve been much better positioned to kick a field goal to win the game in regulation. Moreover, even if the Packers were to have everything go right, including getting a stop and forcing overtime, the game would still just be a 50-50 proposition at that point.

I would have been fine with either decision. I don't think there was a right or wrong move.

[Guiness]

I would have been fine with either decision. I don't think there was a right or wrong move.

That's how I feel about it to. I think the biggest mistake is the one MLF admitted to, not telling Rodgers they would be kicking, not going for it on 4th.

[Sparkey]

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2021/01/packers-aaron-rodgers-everyone-questioned-incompletion-nfc-title-game

So Rodgers admits he pussied out on running it cuz he figured he'd have another shot. That is just piss poor.

He also had MVS in the corner with position to throw back inside to the goal posts.

Rodgers focused too heavily on Adams the last two throws.

[Fritz]

He also had MVS in the corner with position to throw back inside to the goal posts.

Rodgers focused too heavily on Adams the last two throws.

And let us not forget that Adams, as wonderful as he is, dropped a touchdown pass in the first half that would have changed the decision-making here. And of course ESB dropped that two-point conversion. I think that drop is something he's going to have to work awfully hard to overcome in this training camp. He probably needs to catch every single ball thrown to him.

[bobblehead]

He also had MVS in the corner with position to throw back inside to the goal posts.

Rodgers focused too heavily on Adams the last two throws.

And someone, can't say who for sure, didn't run the ball the entire 4th quarter.

[Fritz]

I was surprised that they gave up on the run so quickly after Aaron Jones went down. I would have thought AJ Dillon would have been the perfect choice to get some carries in that fourth quarter. Jamaal Williams is a nice back, can do some things really well, but he only can get what is there - and not much was admittedly there. On the other hand, Dillon can bang through some people and ought to have gotten some carries, if for no other reason than to keep those damn TB pass rushers from just teeing it up on poor Rick Wagner.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Jamaal Williams is better than that. I expect his YAC will be better than AJ Dillon in 2021.
That said, AJ is younger and cheaper and of similar potential.

[George Cumby]

I was surprised that they gave up on the run so quickly after Aaron Jones went down. I would have thought AJ Dillon would have been the perfect choice to get some carries in that fourth quarter. Jamaal Williams is a nice back, can do some things really well, but he only can get what is there - and not much was admittedly there. On the other hand, Dillon can bang through some people and ought to have gotten some carries, if for no other reason than to keep those damn TB pass rushers from just teeing it up on poor Rick Wagner.

I thought the whole point of drafting Dillon was to batter the living crap out of defenses in late season games. It was bizarre how they didn't use the right weapon at the right time. There's a time for the rapier, there's a time for the dirk, there's a time for the war-hammer. SMH.

[ptisme]

The only way I want Rodgers back next year is if he agrees to do Brady contracts... We'll never win a SB with him taking up so much cap...

[bobblehead]

The only way I want Rodgers back next year is if he agrees to do Brady contracts... We'll never win a SB with him taking up so much cap...

To a limited degree I do think he meant in when he said it wasn't about money. But he views the money as the respect also. And I still believe he doesn't want to play anywhere but Green Bay.

[call_me_ishmael]

This will never not be funny.

https://twitter.com/Ihartitz/status/1389274654469197825

[call_me_ishmael]

Same with this one. Frankly this is the best content of the past year.

https://twitter.com/DaireCarragher/status/1420126355392450564

[bobblehead]

Do they have the one where Gutes smiles wryly and says "knew I could get him for exactly 2 more years after I drafted his replacement and then be able to still trade him for max value"

[Bretsky]

RECAP of getting AROD back--My theory as well as some of those who cover the Packers

Rodgers- Not coming unless you show me some luv and bring back Randall
Gutebag---Ignores the request....piss off
Matty Ice the Coach to Gute- For gods sake give up a late round pick for Cobb- Continues to use Media to praise how wonderful AROD is time after time...praying silently he comes back
Gutebag- Ignores request further
MARCIA MARCIA MARCIA--Gootie Schmmootie.....just give up a late round pick to get Cobb back so AROD shows up
Gutebag- Pouts but finally gives in

FOLLOW UP PRESSER--Questions Asked

Gutebag- Instead of saying GB is always looking to improve and Randall Cobb gives that opporunity.....in a pouting manner basically says he didn't want Randall Cobb and that was forced by Rodgers

[call_me_ishmael]

RECAP of getting AROD back--My theory as well as some of those who cover the Packers

Rodgers- Not coming unless you show me some luv and bring back Randall
Gutebag---Ignores the request....piss off
Matty Ice the Coach to Gute- For gods sake give up a late round pick for Cobb- Continues to use Media to praise how wonderful AROD is time after time...praying silently he comes back
Gutebag- Ignores request further
MARCIA MARCIA MARCIA--Gootie Schmmootie.....just give up a late round pick to get Cobb back so AROD shows up
Gutebag- Pouts but finally gives in

FOLLOW UP PRESSER--Questions Asked

Gutebag- Instead of saying GB is always looking to improve and Randall Cobb gives that opporunity.....in a pouting manner basically says he didn't want Randall Cobb and that was forced by Rodgers

A bit dramatic but yeah he was super douchey in that press conference. Gooter has gotta go. Doesn’t look fit for the job.

[bobblehead]

RECAP of getting AROD back--My theory as well as some of those who cover the Packers

Rodgers- Not coming unless you show me some luv and bring back Randall
Gutebag---Ignores the request....piss off
Matty Ice the Coach to Gute- For gods sake give up a late round pick for Cobb- Continues to use Media to praise how wonderful AROD is time after time...praying silently he comes back
Gutebag- Ignores request further
MARCIA MARCIA MARCIA--Gootie Schmmootie.....just give up a late round pick to get Cobb back so AROD shows up
Gutebag- Pouts but finally gives in

FOLLOW UP PRESSER--Questions Asked

Gutebag- Instead of saying GB is always looking to improve and Randall Cobb gives that opporunity.....in a pouting manner basically says he didn't want Randall Cobb and that was forced by Rodgers

Thats a nice theory, but you know what I saw. Rodgers play prissy all offseason then report on time. Ok, he managed to score an overpaid WR past his prime, but big deal. Wait until this next offseason when Rodgers tears up the contract and signs a fresh 4 year deal.

[bobblehead]

A bit dramatic but yeah he was super douchey in that press conference. Gooter has gotta go. Doesn’t look fit for the job.

Back to back NFCC and poised for a SB run again...yea, he sucks.

[Bretsky]

Gutebag has been a good GM overall but he has flaws as well. And don't let him have a microphone to speak.

[texaspackerbacker]

Thats a nice theory, but you know what I saw. Rodgers play prissy all offseason then report on time. Ok, he managed to score an overpaid WR past his prime, but big deal. Wait until this next offseason when Rodgers tears up the contract and signs a fresh 4 year deal.

I say again, I HOPE you're right.

[call_me_ishmael]

Back to back NFCC and poised for a SB run again...yea, he sucks.

He inherited a HOF QB and picked the right coach. I guess credit where credit is due - he did sign 4 key free agents that have all exceeded their contracts and become key contributors. How rare is that? Extremely.

[call_me_ishmael]

Thats a nice theory, but you know what I saw. Rodgers play prissy all offseason then report on time. Ok, he managed to score an overpaid WR past his prime, but big deal. Wait until this next offseason when Rodgers tears up the contract and signs a fresh 4 year deal.

I think that will happen too. And we wasted a key asset in the quest for a super bowl. So f'n dumb.


• Jordan Love, the pivot-point first-round pick of all the discontent, hasn’t wowed the team. Good days, shaky days. But I’d be cautious about saying the 26th pick in the 2020 draft is in trouble. Rodgers, the 24th pick in 2005, had more than his share of lousy moments in years one and two behind Brett Favre. Love’s decision-making must improve. But some quarterbacks take more nurturing than others. One of the biggest problems in football today is impatience with young quarterbacks, and I got the sense the Packers think Love’s not ready for prime time yet.


I asked about GM Brian Gutekunst and president Mark Murphy, and whether he’d be able to have civil or good relationships with them after the fluff of this offseason.

“I mean, the people I have to deal with every day is the staff, my teammates,” Rodgers said. “I have a really good relationship with the staff. Once you get into the football season, those are the most important relationships because you’re talking with them every day. I’ve always had a good relationship with Matt when it comes to play-calling and installs and stuff I like. Then obviously having [offensive coordinator Nathaniel] Hackett, who’s a close friend, in the room, and [passing game coordinator Luke] Getsy. Those are the most important relationships.

“The other one [Gutekunst], you know, I leave space and optimism for growth and change. But, you know, at this point, my focus is just on the football staff and making sure those conversations and communication are right going into the season.”

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/08/15/aaron-rodgers-packers-training-camp-nfl-fmia-peter-king/?cid=fmiatw

[smuggler]

Sometimes Rodgers is damn petty.

[SudsMcBucky]

Sometimes Rodgers is damn petty.

Sometimes?????

[bobblehead]

He inherited a HOF QB and picked the right coach. I guess credit where credit is due - he did sign 4 key free agents that have all exceeded their contracts and become key contributors. How rare is that? Extremely.

I was down on Gutes early if anyone recalls. But I have to give credit where its due. You know what I call guys who show an ability to achieve things that others RARELY do.... I call them a success.

[texaspackerbacker]

"he did sign 4 key free agents that have all exceeded their contracts and become key contributors. How rare is that? Extremely." CMI's wisdom on the topic of Gutekunst. Yes, it's pretty damn rare. How about we ask why? I'd suggest that when you have the GOAT QB, he elevates everybody, every aspect of the team including the D. Those four free agents, like the team in general, seemed a lot better than they were because of Rodgers. And we still have whiners and idiots in here not appreciating the guy. Last Saturday night might be shades of things to come if Rodgers doesn't stay around for the foreseeable future.

Thus, if Gutekunst shortens Rodgers' tenure with the Packers, the negativity of that greatly outweighs any other good he may have done.

[call_me_ishmael]

I was down on Gutes early if anyone recalls. But I have to give credit where its due. You know what I call guys who show an ability to achieve things that others RARELY do.... I call them a success.

Meh, nobody will remember the first 3-4 years if Love sucks. Love is what will define him. Love is all he needs.

[call_me_ishmael]

"he did sign 4 key free agents that have all exceeded their contracts and become key contributors. How rare is that? Extremely." CMI's wisdom on the topic of Gutekunst. Yes, it's pretty damn rare. How about we ask why? I'd suggest that when you have the GOAT QB, he elevates everybody, every aspect of the team including the D. Those four free agents, like the team in general, seemed a lot better than they were because of Rodgers. And we still have whiners and idiots in here not appreciating the guy. Last Saturday night might be shades of things to come if Rodgers doesn't stay around for the foreseeable future.

Thus, if Gutekunst shortens Rodgers' tenure with the Packers, the negativity of that greatly outweighs any other good he may have done.

I mean, 3 are defenders so I don't really think that holds a lot of water. The argument that they had the money to spend on D because Rodgers can largely can an O himself is something I would agree with.

[call_me_ishmael]

I was down on Gutes early if anyone recalls. But I have to give credit where its due. You know what I call guys who show an ability to achieve things that others RARELY do.... I call them a success.

Yeah fair enough. Man, I am struggling big time to come up with a better FA class ever. Like... the overwhelming majority of free agents fade out after a year or two. All 4 are going to complete their entire contract. Not only that, but on a cap crunched team with top notch talent. That says a lot about the type of people and players they are. I think 3 will get second contracts too.

[texaspackerbacker]

I mean, 3 are defenders so I don't really think that holds a lot of water. The argument that they had the money to spend on D because Rodgers can largely can an O himself is something I would agree with.

Arguably, eating up time of possession as well as getting a nice lead and limiting their option to run the ball is a big help to the D.

[Spaulding]

I mean, 3 are defenders so I don't really think that holds a lot of water. The argument that they had the money to spend on D because Rodgers can largely can an O himself is something I would agree with.

I think you both are too much in awe of Rodgers to be objective. While he could definitely elevate receiver play by throwing catchable balls, he doesn't elevate the blocking when he holds the ball too long or create the holes or broken/missed tackles that Oline and Jones have achieved.

One guy alone (regardless of being a first ballot HOF) cannot single handedly elevates an eleven man offense. I do agree he can elevate receiver play and morale by being a stud but football is the ultimate team sport for a reason and one player alone can't put a team on his back like basketball or a pitcher in baseball.

I think Gute has been an exceptional GM so far in the limited body of work, unfortunately it sounds like his communication skills are lacking as are his public speaking skills (Bretsky hit it on the head - no mike for you). I do think you're right though that if Love bombs or is average and Rodgers is gone that he'll only be remembered for this versus anything else he has done or will do.

[Spaulding]

Arguably, eating up time of possession as well as getting a nice lead and limiting their option to run the ball is a big help to the D.

Time of possession stems from the offensive line and Aaron Jones running the ball (or whoever totes the rock on the play), not much from Rodgers and any up tempo passing. game. Granted a crucial pass to convert another first down might stem purely from Rodgers ability but it's still really the running game that controls TOP.

[Upnorth]

Time of possession stems from the offensive line and Aaron Jones running the ball (or whoever totes the rock on the play), not much from Rodgers and any up tempo passing. game. Granted a crucial pass to convert another first down might stem purely from Rodgers ability but it's still really the running game that controls TOP.

This makes sense to me. The passing game gets the points to put us in front. The running game closes it out and gives the d a chance to rest while shortening the game.

[TateM30]

has the defense really got a SB push in them? I think it got in their heads last season.

[TateM30]

doubt AR is going to have a camera crew follow him around but sure does feel like it.

[otisjane]

I'm not sure why they keep mentioning that in the media. What's more, why don't sporadic and over-the-cap help? He earns $20.8 million a year, or around $25 million if you include the signing bonus, but not in the year he got it.