More Banjo - Packers vs. Lions

[Joemailman]

Rodgers 22-27, 255, 4 TD, 146 passer rating

Aaron Jones - 115 total yards, 4 TD's.

Davante Adams - 8 catches, 121 yards

DeVondre Campbell - 13 tackles, 1 INT

Eric Stokes - 2 passes defensed

Kylin Hill - 2 KO returns for 60 yards

Corey Bojorquez - 3 punts, 46.7 average, 2 inside 20

[scharpcheddar]

https://youtu.be/Ev1sE_fo7lc

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm still not pleased - well, maybe a little bit hahahaha.

Our D never did really stop them. Goff messing up and poor Lion play calling at times helped in the second half, and of course, getting King OUT of there.

Our O Line still isn't what it should be either. The pass blocking was shoddy all night, and the run blocking wasn't great either - Jones did most of it on his own, as shown by the fact that Dillon just couldn't get started.

Elgton Jenkins is just mediocre at Tackle, and the Guard spot where he should be was also mediocre at best. I thought they'd be better with Patrick out, but not much if any.

Against a better team, we're gonna need better D and better O Line play.

Tonight, it literally was all Aaron(s).

[Joemailman]

O-line should get better. That's a very young line they have out here right now.

Defense will get better as Stokes plays more and King plays less. Need more out of the D-line though.

[Joemailman]

Rodgers talked about missing MVS several times. Said MVS should have had 3 TD's.

[call_me_ishmael]

Joseph Mail Man, my guy!

I was unimpressed with Jenkins at tackle too. Also underwhelmed by Gary tonight. Like is that dude ever gonna be a player or not? The time is now. Kevin King is past his prime. He looked slower than 4.8 Quintez

Niners gonna put up 40 against the Psck next week if they play like this.

[texaspackerbacker]

I've been saying, and I'm gonna keep on saying, Jenkins should be at Left Guard - the by far more important position. He was mediocre at LT, and the run game was worse and the pass protection was shoddy - again - on the inside where Jenkins should be. Runyan was a step up from Lucas Patrick, but not by much.

One of very very few on D who played good was Jonathan Garvin, and the dumbass commentators didn't say his name all night, not even on the interception that he basically caused by hitting Goff as he threw.

I doubt the Niners put up 40 on us. A bunch of their RBs are injured including Mostaert who hurt the Packers so much in the past. Garropalo may not be worse than Goff, but I doubt he is better.

Realistically, Barry is not gonna get fired during the season, so he damn well better get his head out of his ass and do some scheming to stop the short passing game.

[Upnorth]

Our second half d looked great imo. Needed blitzes for pressure which is to bad but you could see Goff had to move and started to suck.
King only gave up 2 passes (1 td) which is better I guess.
Clark pushed the pocket and Gary played pretty good. Maybe there is a chance on d. But it was the lions...
Oline was goid outside of Newman. Jenkins did give up a sack but generally kept the blind side solid, runyon was way better than Newman. When Patrick cones back we will have a good line.
Also meyers is very good. Not all pro but maybe pro Bowl.

[Teamcheez1]

Read an interesting stat. The last 5 primetime games against the Lions, the Packers have been trailing at halftime, and came back to win all of them.

[George Cumby]

It's nice to get a win, but I'm not convinced this team is good.

Talented? For sure.

Good? IDK.

[Joemailman]

On Campbell's INT Garvin was lined up on the right side of the defense and chased Goff down who had rolled out to the right to force the bad throw . Also, Rivers had forced Goff out of the pocket with some good pressure from the left side. Defense has a way to go, but they did create some pressure in the 2nd half we hadn't seen in the 1st 3 quarters.

[MadtownPacker]

That dbag QB of ours say anything arrogant?

[texaspackerbacker]

Our second half d looked great imo. Needed blitzes for pressure which is to bad but you could see Goff had to move and started to suck.
King only gave up 2 passes (1 td) which is better I guess.
Clark pushed the pocket and Gary played pretty good. Maybe there is a chance on d. But it was the lions...
Oline was goid outside of Newman. Jenkins did give up a sack but generally kept the blind side solid, runyon was way better than Newman. When Patrick cones back we will have a good line.
Also meyers is very good. Not all pro but maybe pro Bowl.

Sheeeesh, what game did you watch?

King was terrible all game. The one time he mostly had Cephus covered, even then Cephus almost caught it. When they moved him into the slot, he was giving up completions there.

The defense was better in the second half, but far from great. Over and over and over, Detroit was completing those short passes. Campbell did great, and Amos too, in terms of making quick tackles after the catch, but all of those plays, 7 or 8 yards, I don't call that great or even adequate in a closer game. If the Packers had "abandoned the run" like Detroit did in the second half, a bunch of know-nothings in here would be raising holy hell. The fact was, though, same as the previous week with the Packers, score and conditions dictated that. Just the same, the Packers D was giving up too big chunks just about every time Detroit ran it. The reason the D was not a lot worse was our offense taking a decent lead. I saw WAY too much Lowery and Lancaster, and too little of Keke and virtually none of Slaton also.

I'm withholding judgment on Gary. It kinda depends on how good the Detroit O Line is. Coming close i.e. getting pressures, and doing that only 19% of the time really doesn't cut it. Can you just imagine if Aaron Rodgers ever had the pass protection Goff had?

Newman wasn't very good, but he was no worse IMO than the rest of the line and I think better than Lucas Patrick the week before. For so many years, I've heard crap about "not giving up a sack" ..... yeah, because Rodgers was mobile enough to avoid the sacks most of the time. And with Jenkins wasted at Tackle and the rush coming over Guard instead - where Jenkins should be, it is a lot harder for the QB to get away from it. People talk about how our D gets "pressures" - 19% of the time or whatever like that's something to brag about. Opponents get pressure on our QB more like every damn play. And those other teams beat our O Line almost all the time with 3 or 4, no blitz. When we don't blitz, there is generally no pressure whatsoever, and when we do blitz, it means less people in coverage - basically a screwed if you do or screwed if you don't situation.

I honestly don't know if it is personnel or scheme that is the problem with our D. Just about every other team, though, seems to do more with less than our D does.

[texaspackerbacker]

I just heard, Aaron Jones' chain with his father's ashes was found - about 1:45am by a Packer trainer.

[Teamcheez1]

I think the O line is going through the maturation process and will only get better. How many teams have basically 4 players in new positions including 2 (or 3) rookies on the field? It’s a tall task and there are some growing pains, but generally they look decent.

The D on the other hand looks like a mess. They did improve as the game went on, but there is a lot of work to do to just play average.

[Joemailman]

I think Runyan will keep the LG position until Bakhtiari is back. Patrick and Newman will battle at RG. Newman has more talent, but he's had his struggles.

[Upnorth]

One thing I have noticed which is disappointing me is that savage and Amos are playing just average. Almost like cover 2 safeties that try to limit big plays but give up everything underneath and don't really impact the run game. The star position is so blah so far.

[Guiness]

Any thoughts on why St-Brown was elevated for the game? Amari Rodgers didn't play an offensive snap but was dressed and handled punt returns, so they had 7 WRs!

[red]

Any thoughts on why St-Brown was elevated for the game? Amari Rodgers didn't play an offensive snap but was dressed and handled punt returns, so they had 7 WRs!

probably had something to do with playing against his brother

[red]

One thing I have noticed which is disappointing me is that savage and Amos are playing just average. Almost like cover 2 safeties that try to limit big plays but give up everything underneath and don't really impact the run game. The star position is so blah so far.

that might be our new system actually

[Upnorth]

that might be our new system actually

So our new d is actually a 2 decade old d? And we are still struggling with handing off responsibilities???
Berry can teach so well....

[Joemailman]

So our new d is actually a 2 decade old d? And we are still struggling with handing off responsibilities???
Berry can teach so well....

It's a 3-4 cover 2. It relies less on 6 DB's than Pettine did. That's why they went out and got Campbell. Last night Campbell played every snap. I think Barry is still trying to figure out how to utilize the "star" position. Chandon Sullivan didn't play much. Both King and Alexander played star some. I think they would like to work Savage in there, but the injury to Vernon Scott is limiting that some. It's a work in progress.

[Joemailman]

In week 1 we saw Sullivan play 56% of snaps, King 90%, and Stokes 13%. In week 2 Sullivan played 32%, King 98% and Stokes 77%. So as Stokes played more, Sullivan sat, and King, or in some instances, Alexander moved inside.

[bobblehead]

Rodgers talked about missing MVS several times. Said MVS should have had 3 TD's.

Nope. Aaron is perfect, just ask tex. Those were all on MVS and the Oline that did nothing while Jones single handedly did everything (except what rodgers did)

[Joemailman]

Nope. Aaron is perfect, just ask tex. Those were all on MVS and the Oline that did nothing while Jones single handedly did everything (except what rodgers did)


– Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers completed 19 of 20 passes and threw all four touchdowns from a clean pocket. His average time to throw from a clean pocket? 2.31 seconds. The Lions only blitzed him six times.

Actually neither Jenkins or Turner had a good game in pass pro. But Rodgers had a clean pocket because Runyan and Myers were outstanding. Packers are going to have a kick ass offensive line when Bakhtiari comes back.

[texaspackerbacker]

Any thoughts on why St-Brown was elevated for the game? Amari Rodgers didn't play an offensive snap but was dressed and handled punt returns, so they had 7 WRs!

His parents were there for the game - 2 sons in it. It was a nice touch with a big lead to get him a catch.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Actually neither Jenkins or Turner had a good game in pass pro. But Rodgers had a clean pocket because Runyan and Myers were outstanding. Packers are going to have a kick ass offensive line when Bakhtiari comes back.

I ain’t sure what game you saw from what universe, but in this godforshaken universe where I’m being forced to flip burgers on a fucked up back, I saw Runyan allow a sack when his competitor dashed outside the tackle box and got to 12 with Runyan looking like the great Thompson free agent acquisition Adrian Klemm.

[texaspackerbacker]

You have to be a damn fool to believe Rodgers had a "clean pocket". Same as has been the case for many years, he was rushed and forced to scramble virtually every play. He does that so easily on an outside rush, some people probably consider it "clean". Clean was what Goff had most of the game against our D, literally every time we didn't send multiple blitzers. When the pass rush came through the Guard spot, it was harder to escape from - the two sacks and a couple of other near sacks.

As for Rodgers being perfect, no. He made two bad plays. One was the short slant to Valdez-Scantling on the goal line which clearly was open and should have been a TD. The other was the pass to Adams into triple coverage where Davante had to make a play like a DB to prevent an interception. That was very unRodgers-like. I thought first the TD pass to Tonyan was similar, but the replay showed that Rodgers led him by throwing where the coverage couldn't get it. Rodgers blamed himself for missing on the two bombs to MVS. It sure looked like he mis-estimated the receiver's speed. Maybe he was just being careful to avoid a pick. I don't see any way Valdez-Scantling was to blame.

As I said, it really was pretty much ALL Aaron and Aaron, with a little bit of Davante and Tonyan thrown in. The O Line was shoddy on pass blocking, and they opened very few holes for the run game - mostly Jones had to bounce off and go somewhere else to find an opening. Dillon didn't or couldn't do that, and the result was next to nothing gained except for on 8 yard gain where he actually did have a hole. Jones probably woulda taken that one to the house.

And as I also said, the D really couldn't stop anybody all night. If Detroit hadn't been so far behind and "abandoned the run game", they probably could have controlled the clock and moved it right down the field with runs and short passes in the second have like they did in the first half.

As for the Barry vs. Pettine thing, this Lion game was similar to most of the 13 wins each of the past two seasons - Rodgers and the offense getting a lead, and the other team's options limited. with our D still giving up yards and points. Pettine was negligent that way, and so is Barry. It wasn't bad enough to lose most of the time, though - the Pettine years and now with Barry. Whether it's good enough to beat the good teams, though, that is the question. If Stokes gets to be as much of a shutdown Corner as Alexander, maybe we can blitz enough to win, but Barry didn't seem willing to do that until late in the game. A way still needs to be found to stop the run and short passes. All over the league, you can see defenses doing more with less quality personnel.

[texaspackerbacker]

In week 1 we saw Sullivan play 56% of snaps, King 90%, and Stokes 13%. In week 2 Sullivan played 32%, King 98% and Stokes 77%. So as Stokes played more, Sullivan sat, and King, or in some instances, Alexander moved inside.

Yeah, that pisses me off. Even when they finally woke up and got rid of King on the outside, they still didn't get him off the field and on the bench where he belongs. Sullivan ain't much, but he didn't suck as much as King in the slot. Other teams play fairly decent pass defense with scrubs - including the Lions. Why can't we scheme a way to do that with a stud Corner, a hot shot rookie, and two supposedly high quality Safetys? And why can't our ILBs do better than making a ton of tackles after the reception and 8 yards down field on runs?

[Upnorth]

Yeah, that pisses me off. Even when they finally woke up and got rid of King on the outside, they still didn't get him off the field and on the bench where he belongs. Sullivan ain't much, but he didn't suck as much as King in the slot. Other teams play fairly decent pass defense with scrubs - including the Lions. Why can't we scheme a way to do that with a stud Corner, a hot shot rookie, and two supposedly high quality Safetys? And why can't our ILBs do better than making a ton of tackles after the reception and 8 yards down field on runs?

King gave up 2 passes. He is an average CB. As a number 3 I would argue he is slightly above average.

Our d pitched a 2nd half shut out against a team that has averaged just under 17 points a half previously, with their previous game being against the highly touted 49ers d. You know the one most fans and analysts assume will destroy us. And sure some of those points were in garbage time but then how dod our horrible d stop them in garbage time. Our d is not great but it might be good. We will see.

On an aside stokes is the highest rated rookie corner! 3 pass break ups in 2 games! Awesome.

[Fritz]

O-line should get better. That's a very young line they have out here right now.

Defense will get better as Stokes plays more and King plays less. Need more out of the D-line though.

I'm surprised more people aren't talking about this. All the grumbling about the O-line, but they were a helluva lot better than that D-line. On a few plays, Goff had time to scan the entire field, then do so again, until he found someone.

This is very much looking like 2011 so far. Is Barry scared to call blitzes? That was a piss-poor performance, and apparently The Flower had to nudge Barry and say "Uh, dude, you might want to try something different in the second half."

I hope they'll start to work Heflin and Slaton into the mix more. It's clear that Lowry offers nothing. And I'm about to start saying "I told you so" again about Rashan Gary. Z Smith out, Gary's chance to show his stuff, and last week he gets sucked inside all game, and last night - did he play? I don't know. He didn't do shit.

But you can have five Jaire Alexanders back there, and if you can't get close to the QB at all, at some point someone will get open.

I know it's early, but I was watching that defense during TV timeouts, and man, there is zero energy there. Zero.

[Joemailman]

I'll be surprised if Heflin isn't given a chance soon. If Lancaster isn't stuffing the run, there's no reason to have him out there. Keke has been a big disappointment so far. He put on weight to hold up better against the run, but I wonder if it's just made him slower.

[George Cumby]

I know it's early, but I was watching that defense during TV timeouts, and man, there is zero energy there. Zero.

But I thought Berry was supposed to bring ENERGY to the defense?

[Fritz]

Maybe we all misunderstood. Maybe he's a black hole and he sucks all the energy out of the defense.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Gary has been solid. 4 pressures and 2 QB hits in just 16 pass rush attempts in week 1 and then a solid 19.2% pass rush win rate in week 2. He hasn't been special, but he's far from the problem on the defense.

I think the issues are primarily the DL as a whole, any OLB outside of P. Smith and Gary, and Kevin King.

[texaspackerbacker]

King gave up 2 passes. He is an average CB. As a number 3 I would argue he is slightly above average.

Our d pitched a 2nd half shut out against a team that has averaged just under 17 points a half previously, with their previous game being against the highly touted 49ers d. You know the one most fans and analysts assume will destroy us. And sure some of those points were in garbage time but then how dod our horrible d stop them in garbage time. Our d is not great but it might be good. We will see.

On an aside stokes is the highest rated rookie corner! 3 pass break ups in 2 games! Awesome.

Are you kidding? King gave up two passes in the first 30 seconds of the game. Even after they thankfully yanked him from playing outside, they stupidly left him on the field where he gave up several more playing the slot Corner. He is absolute garbage.

Our D "pitched a shut out" in the second half? Yeah, after the offense got that lead and the Lions stopped running the ball. Even then they moved right down the field with short passes. Throwing that pass into the endzone that Stokes broke up instead of continuing to move the ball was the only thing keeping them from scoring again and at least beating the point spread.

Yes, after a couple of early mess ups, Stokes was awesome. Hopefully they have the good sense to keep him there as a starter and not bring back damn King.

[Fritz]

Wow. I agree with a Tex post.

[call_me_ishmael]

Gary has been solid. 4 pressures and 2 QB hits in just 16 pass rush attempts in week 1 and then a solid 19.2% pass rush win rate in week 2. He hasn't been special, but he's far from the problem on the defense.

I think the issues are primarily the DL as a whole, any OLB outside of P. Smith and Gary, and Kevin King.

Man I don't know about that. Where are the sacks? To me he looked like ass against bums this week. I know he's super athletic and all that and I want to be encouraged but the results just are not there with him. It's like Michigan all over. Most talented player on the field of course but he isn't playing like it.

[Fritz]

Man I don't know about that. Where are the sacks? To me he looked like ass against bums this week. I know he's super athletic and all that and I want to be encouraged but the results just are not there with him. It's like Michigan all over. Most talented player on the field of course but he isn't playing like it.

There you go. Exactly. Everyone keeps talking about how great he is, but where's the production? I know it's early, but I'm tired of the "he's close" stuff. When is he going to start getting actual sacks?

[George Cumby]

There you go. Exactly. Everyone keeps talking about how great he is, but where's the production? I know it's early, but I'm tired of the "he's close" stuff. When is he going to start getting actual sacks?

Finally jumped off the Gary Bandwagon, I see. You know it's bad when a die-hard supporter like you turns on a player.

[smuggler]

Does he get credit for the Campbell interception, at all? I'm a little frustrated by Gary, but he's not getting beaucoup bucks right now, and he's hardly the weakest link on D.

[call_me_ishmael]

He's not the weakest link but he isn't an asset at this point. Hard to argue in his two games so far - especially the Lions - that the D needed someone to make plays and that is what a guy like Gary is supposed to do and he has totally not lived up to it yet.

[King Friday]

Gary is getting a lot of attention from the offense, because NO ONE else in the front seven is providing any push. Keke and Lancaster are doing about as much as I would out there. Preston has flashed on occasion, but not enough. The issue I'm seeing with Gary is that he isn't finishing. He had a couple nice pressures against Detroit where he prob should have gotten a sack, but he missed Goff for whatever reason.

[smuggler]

Well put, Friday. I feel mostly the same way.