Gruden Out As Raiders Coach

[Joemailman]

Following recent articles in The Wall Street Journal and New York Times detailing the use of racist, homophobic and misogynistic terms by Jon Gruden in emails reportedly dating back to 2010, Gruden has resigned as Las Vegas Raiders head coach, NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reported Monday night.

Gruden was five games into the fourth season of a 10-year contract with the franchise, for which he previously coached in a prior stint..

[Guiness]

.

Just saw that, sure escalated quickly! PFT thinks the NFL didn't want to try and suspend Gruden because it would be on shaky legal ground, but they were going to keep releasing emails until he resigned or Davis fired him.

Somewhere out there Urban Meyer is going a little happy dance at being out of the news cycle for a bit.


https://twitter.com/i/status/1447735182631620608

[George Cumby]

:drma:

[KYPack]

Bad day at the office for Grudog.

These emails mostly generate from Bruce Allen.

Wonder what's up there?

[Joemailman]

Bad day at the office for Grudog.

These emails mostly generate from Bruce Allen.

Wonder what's up there?


Gruden emailed Allen that Goodell should not have pressured then-St. Louis Rams coach Jeff Fisher to draft "queers," referring to former defensive end Michael Sam, a gay player drafted in 2014, according to The Times. The Times also reported that Gruden used an anti-gay slur in several instances while referring to Goodell and used offensive language to describe some owners, coaches and media members who cover the league..

[texaspackerbacker]

I never had anything against Gruden - or for him either for that matter. If a coach can't express candid and normal thoughts to his own GM, there's something wrong. WTF was this "investigation" of the Redskins ten years ago all about anyway? Aimed at Gruden? Or they stumbled onto him digging up shit on something else?

If Bruce Allen related to George Allen, the old Redskins GM?

[Joemailman]

I never had anything against Gruden - or for him either for that matter. If a coach can't express candid and normal thoughts to his own GM, there's something wrong. WTF was this "investigation" of the Redskins ten years ago all about anyway? Aimed at Gruden? Or they stumbled onto him digging up shit on something else?

If Bruce Allen related to George Allen, the old Redskins GM?

NFL this past summer concluded an investigation into he Washington organization that resulted in a $10 million fine.


The NFL announced Thursday it is fining the Washington Football Team $10 million based on the outcome of the review of the franchise, which was led by independent counsel Beth Wilkinson, that found the club's workplace to have been improper for many years.

Based on Wilkinson's review, Commissioner Roger Goodell came to the conclusion that Washington had operated "both generally and particularly for women," per the league statement, in a "highly unprofessional" manner that included bullying, intimidation, multiple allegations of sexual harassment and a "general lack of respect in the workplace."

[smuggler]

Just saw that, sure escalated quickly! PFT thinks the NFL didn't want to try and suspend Gruden because it would be on shaky legal ground, but they were going to keep releasing emails until he resigned or Davis fired him.


Impressive use of power by the league. Seems like Gruden's colorful descriptions of Goodell in the emails struck a weak spot.

Sucks for the Raiders, as all this dismantles a lot of work to rebuild their on-field product.

[Sparkey]

I think the Raiders will be better without Gruden.

[hoosier]

Just saw that, sure escalated quickly! PFT thinks the NFL didn't want to try and suspend Gruden because it would be on shaky legal ground, but they were going to keep releasing emails until he resigned or Davis fired him.

Somewhere out there Urban Meyer is going a little happy dance at being out of the news cycle for a bit.


https://twitter.com/i/status/1447735182631620608

Good point about Meyer. Too bad it didn't last a little longer . . . .

[Fritz]

I think the Raiders will be better without Gruden.

Strictly from a coaching perspective, ignoring the main part of the story, I'd agree. He was into his fourth year with the Raiders, and what have they done, anyway? They just got beat by da Bears...I don't think in today's NFL that three years is not enough time to turn things around. For one thing, there's no patience for it.

Gruden, outside of a couple highlight years here and there, coached a lot of mediocre-to-crummy teams. He wasn't the greatest head coach in my opinion.

[KYPack]

I never had anything against Gruden - or for him either for that matter. If a coach can't express candid and normal thoughts to his own GM, there's something wrong. WTF was this "investigation" of the Redskins ten years ago all about anyway? Aimed at Gruden? Or they stumbled onto him digging up shit on something else?

If Bruce Allen related to George Allen, the old Redskins GM?

George Allen is Brue Allen's daddy.

The NFL was trying to strong-arm Daniel Snyder (AKA the Dark Dwarf) into unloading the Redskins. They got fined and stuff, but the only guy who gets waffled is a lowly coach.

[Guiness]

Impressive use of power by the league. Seems like Gruden's colorful descriptions of Goodell in the emails struck a weak spot.

Sucks for the Raiders, as all this dismantles a lot of work to rebuild their on-field product.


I think the Raiders will be better without Gruden.

What Sparkey (and later Kentucky) said. Gruden was notimproving their on field product appreciably. They went 4-12, 7-9 and 8-8 last season. You could argue they've improved every year, but that collapse at the end of last season says differently. No all-pros and I don't know if they even snuck a player into the pro-bowl. I'd say they've about peaked.

If Davis wants to win, he should be happy about this. If he wanted a drawing card for a coach, he might've preferred to keep him.

[Sparkey]

What Sparkey (and later Kentucky) said. Gruden was notimproving their on field product appreciably. They went 4-12, 7-9 and 8-8 last season. You could argue they've improved every year, but that collapse at the end of last season says differently. No all-pros and I don't know if they even snuck a player into the pro-bowl. I'd say they've about peaked.

If Davis wants to win, he should be happy about this. If he wanted a drawing card for a coach, he might've preferred to keep him.

Now they just have to dump Mayock.

[Guiness]

Now they just have to dump Mayock.

Well, and optimally Davis. A second generation owner, does not have deep pockets, and as far as I can tell has done nothing football related other than sit in luxury suites, I can't see where he does them any good.

[George Cumby]

Gruden, for his career, is like five games over .500. I would take Holmgren, Sherman, M3 or LaFleur over Gruden any day, all day.

[George Cumby]

Good point about Meyer. Too bad it didn't last a little longer . . . .

Don't worry, be happy.

This just takes the magnifying glass off of Meyer for a while. He still can't coach at this level.

[run pMc]

Toxic culture at the WFT for years.
https://dailysnark.com/2021/10/11/jon-gruden-was-receiving-images-of-washington-cheerleaders-being-forced-to-pose-topless/

Honestly, I'm not sure how criminal charges aren't filed here; coercing the cheerleaders to pose topless? Really?

Bruce Allen, Snyder, et al. were under investigation, that's how these emails got out. I wouldn't doubt for a second that Goodell sanctioned them getting leaked to the press.
I believe these emails were before Gruden took the Raiders job. If you send racist, sexist, and homophobic emails around to colleagues and they see the light of day, you will get fired.

[Guiness]

Well wouldn't this be interesting - NFLPA attempting to get the rest of the WFT emails released. I wonder how many people are sweating over that possibility?

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/10/12/plenty-of-people-are-nervous-about-the-bruce-allen-emails/
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/10/12/nflpa-plans-to-petition-nfl-to-release-the-rest-of-the-wft-emails/

I'll gladly :drma: over this, but I think the way they've gone about it so far is ridiculous.

An NFL spokesperson told Jones that the league has “no current plans” to release the emails because “confidentiality was an element of the investigation into the Washington Football Team and workplace review.”
Which is a crock. As it stands now the NFL possibly has a little treasure trove of blackmail material they can trot out any time someone gets out of line. Allen was in Washington for quite a while, I'm guessing he exchanged mails with a large percentage of GMs and coaches around the league over one matter or another, how many of them could be damaging to reputations?

[George Cumby]

Cool how they can't release the information because of confidentiality but when it suits their porpoises, they can chum the waters.

Something, something double standard, something something have your cake and eat it, too.

[Guiness]

Cool how they can't release the information because of confidentiality but when it suits their porpoises, they can chum the waters.

Something, something double standard, something something have your cake and eat it, too.

Something, something who signs the cheques who cashes them?

[RashanGary]

I’m sure he was just making colorful jokes like we do sometimes. It’s a sensitive world we live in. A lot of things are really blown up and offend people because of their minority and how upset people are about being minority. Just a broken society with a lot of baggage that comes out in all sorts of ways. Gruden is fired for not being sensitive. Public figures are held to a higher standard.

[Fritz]

I’m sure he was just making colorful jokes like we do sometimes. It’s a sensitive world we live in. A lot of things are really blown up and offend people because of their minority and how upset people are about being minority. Just a broken society with a lot of baggage that comes out in all sorts of ways. Gruden is fired for not being sensitive. Public figures are held to a higher standard.

Like Donald Trump!

But to the point made earlier about how the NFL changes the rules to suit its purposes, I agree. The NFL is an asshole.

[Joemailman]

Gruden, for his career, is like five games over .500. I would take Holmgren, Sherman, M3 or LaFleur over Gruden any day, all day.

Gruden won a Super Bowl with Tony Dungy's defense his first season in Tampa Bay and never won another playoff game. Overrated as a coach and announcer.

[hoosier]

Don't worry, be happy.

This just takes the magnifying glass off of Meyer for a while. He still can't coach at this level.

Yeah but I wanted him stuck in the abject humiliation of having that story out where he knows his friends and family are seeing it constantly. Now it's gone from the news feed never to come back. No coaching, sure, but also no public reminders of what a colossal asshole he must be.

[texaspackerbacker]

Gruden probably will never work for the NFL again, but he undoubtedly got a golden parachute - tens of millions $ settlement of his contract. He'll be laughing all the way to the bank and continuing to spew normalcy - as he should.

[CaptainKickass]

It's game over for Chucky!

They've officially cancelled Chucky

https://bloody-disgusting.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/chucky.jpg

https://image-cdn.neatoshop.com/styleimg/77527/none/black/default/395868-20;1535668355v.jpg

[bobblehead]

Like Donald Trump!

But to the point made earlier about how the NFL changes the rules to suit its purposes, I agree. The NFL is an asshole.

Really? You are really dumb enough to go there?

[Fritz]

You don't think the NFL is an asshole?

[run pMc]

Gruden probably will never work for the NFL again, but he undoubtedly got a golden parachute - tens of millions $ settlement of his contract. He'll be laughing all the way to the bank and continuing to spew normalcy - as he should.

Agree that it would be hard for any locker room or broadcast booth to welcome him.
Not sure about that golden parachute -- he resigned, which for most NFL HC contracts means he forfeits the money in the contract, vs. being fired in which case he gets to keep the money. His was a weird contract to begin with so who knows. He's made enough money where he should be fine either way.

I'm curious to see what else falls out from the WFT investigation. Sure seems like the leaks are strategic to suit specific parties in power. Go figure.

[smuggler]

It's hard to feel too bad for Gruden, but in my opinion the league and the Bucs look so much worse than Gruden after all this. The league basically admitting that not only does it have blackmail against a good portion of the league, but actually publicly blackmailing the Raiders to part with Gruden because Goodell has a small penis. The Bucs are just impossibly tone deaf to cut ties with Chucky for using bad words but putting Antonio Brown on their team and ignoring his repeated actual assaults of actual people, which presumably also included colorful and naughty language.

[smuggler]

Basically, only an idiot is satisfied with Gruden being sacrificed and the WFT getting nothing.

[Guiness]

Davis showing some frustration


“I have no comment,” Davis said. And then he had a comment.

“Ask the NFL. They have all the answers.”


https://twitter.com/PGutierrezESPN/status/1448337698024947714?s=20

[Joemailman]

Basically, only an idiot is satisfied with Gruden being sacrificed and the WFT getting nothing.

This story isn't over.


On Tuesday, the attorneys for 40 former Washington Football Team employees whose complaints prompted the league investigation called for the full disclosure of the NFL's findings.
"It is truly outrageous that after the NFL's 10-month-long investigation involving hundreds of witnesses and 650,000 documents related to the longtime culture of harassment and abuse at the Washington Football Team, the only person to be held accountable and lose their job is the coach of the Las Vegas Raiders," the attorneys, Lisa Banks and Debra Katz, said in a statement.
"If the NFL felt it appropriate to release these offensive emails from Jon Gruden ... it must also release the findings related to the actual target of that investigation. Our clients and the public at large deserve transparency and accountability. If not, the NFL and Roger Goodell must explain why they appear intent on protecting the Washington Football Team and owner Dan Snyder at all costs."

[Fritz]

This story isn't over.

'the attorneys, Lisa Banks and Debra Katz, said in a statement.
"If the NFL felt it appropriate to release these offensive emails from Jon Gruden ... it must also release the findings related to the actual target of that investigation. Our clients and the public at large deserve transparency and accountability. If not, the NFL and Roger Goodell must explain why they appear intent on protecting the Washington Football Team and owner Dan Snyder at all costs."'

Because he's an owner. The NFL is just the toy of a bunch of very wealthy men who will protect themselves at any cost. So they had to throw a coach under the bus - not a big deal for them.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The Bucs are just impossibly tone deaf to cut ties with Chucky for using bad words but putting Antonio Brown on their team and ignoring his repeated actual assaults of actual people, which presumably also included colorful and naughty language.

The problem wasn't the language. It was the hatred directed towards a group of people. If he had said "teams shoudn't be drafting African Americans" that would be same deal.

It was sort-of OK to hate gays just 10 years ago. Totally cool 25 years ago. Now it's something that ppl distance themselves from, especially orgs concerned about their brand.

I did see a good point made in his defense: the comments were in a private email, so this is really a thought crime. That's true. But now that everyone knows he thinks this way, it's the same problem as if he had yelled it at a bar.

[Guiness]

'the attorneys, Lisa Banks and Debra Katz, said in a statement.
"If the NFL felt it appropriate to release these offensive emails from Jon Gruden

Because he's an owner. The NFL is just the toy of a bunch of very wealthy men who will protect themselves at any cost. So they had to throw a coach under the bus - not a big deal for them.

Interesting tidbit here, NFL is claiming they did not release the mails. Which as Florio point out, means they should be concerned who else has access to them!


NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy told PFT that the NFL has released none of the Gruden emails to the media. If that’s true, the NFL should be very alarmed. If that’s true, someone else with access to those emails (and not many people have access to those emails) leaked them without authorization and in direct violation of league policy.

Of course, the probability that someone other than the NFL released those mails is very, very low.

[Joemailman]

If we just started opening up everybody's private emails and texts, people would start sweating a little bit. ... Hopefully not too many. But maybe that's what they should do for all coaches and GMs and owners from now on, is open up," the Raiders' quarterback said Wednesday. "You've got to open up everything. See what happens."

No word yet on whether Carr thinks that the private emails and texts of players should also be made public. I'll wait.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I’m sure he was just making colorful jokes like we do sometimes. It’s a sensitive world we live in. A lot of things are really blown up and offend people because of their minority and how upset people are about being minority. Just a broken society with a lot of baggage that comes out in all sorts of ways. Gruden is fired for not being sensitive. Public figures are held to a higher standard.

Just “colorful jokes” to you simple-minded folks on the hill, but to us sophisticated Millennials (Partial and myself, etc.), Gruden’s bigoted remarks are as foul as Tony O’Day.

That being said, had Gruden made a foul remark about the Jews, I’d be like, nice colorful joke, Chucky. Lets just say that the Jews are the root reason I have no choice but to flip burgers for the minimum-wage…on a bad back and a bad hip. :x

[RashanGary]

Just “colorful jokes” to you simple-minded folks on the hill, but to us sophisticated Millennials (Partial and myself, etc.), Gruden’s bigoted remarks are as foul as Tony O’Day.

That being said, had Gruden made a foul remark about the Jews, I’d be like, nice colorful joke, Chucky. Lets just say that the Jews are the root reason I have no choice but to flip burgers for the minimum-wage…on a bad back and a bad hip. :x

There is a lot of hurt and anger in our society. Groups are pitted against each other in a divide and conquer sort of way. We have to be sensitive to the environment and chucky wasn’t.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Wait, I rechecked my notes.

Gruden did write something about wanting Malcolm Glazer, Buc-fuck-beers owner and proud Jew, to suck his big Aryan rooster.

Lol.

[Harlan Huckleby]

There is a lot of hurt and anger in our society. Groups are pitted against each other in a divide and conquer sort of way. We have to be sensitive to the environment and chucky wasn’t.

Everybody is limited by their life experiences. We here at packerrats are more sensitive than most, we've operated under the management of a gay Mexican. It's broadened our horizons.

[Fritz]

No word yet on whether Carr thinks that the private emails and texts of players should also be made public. I'll wait.

Why stop there? Publish the private emails of all Packerrats members!

That Carr said what he did indicates a serious lack of thought on his part.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Gruden probably will never work for the NFL again, but he undoubtedly got a golden parachute - tens of millions $ settlement of his contract. He'll be laughing all the way to the bank and continuing to spew normalcy - as he should.

See Onion thread in FYI.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Looks like Madden 22 is removing ole Gru from the game.

[smuggler]

The problem wasn't the language. It was the hatred directed towards a group of people. If he had said "teams shoudn't be drafting African Americans" that would be same deal.

Except he actually treats gays and minorities and women well. The only direct hate was toward the Kansas City commish himself and Gruden just chose words that he thought Goodell would hate. Of course now that Goodell has read them, it turns out Gruden was right.

But Antonio Brown directly harbors anger toward women and also assaults them. Pretty drastic difference.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Except he actually treats gays and minorities and women well. The only direct hate was toward the Kansas City commish himself and Gruden just chose words that he thought Goodell would hate.

Man, that's some fancy defense lawyering. He hates on Goodell for pressuring a GM to "draft queers." (BTW, Did Goodell actually do this?) But you say this is only a knock on Goodell.

Anyway, lots of people find the guy offensive, in a dozen different ways. And that's just from limited stuff that's been released.

A lot of ppl have been smeared by old tweets and emails. I agree the purge is too much and unfortunate. In general, as long as people aren't causing problems currently, nothing accomplished by digging up the past.

[smuggler]

Gruden's criticism of Goodell is insensitive but not overly hateful. Gruden is certainly wrong for his choice of words, but it doesn't make him evil or even prejudiced. People really do live to overuse the word hate, but Nassib said he respects Gruden. I trust him before anyone else in the world concerning how Gruden treats gays.

If Goodell actually did pressure Fischer into drafting Michael Sam, which I am dubious about, then Gruden's criticism is actually valid except in its execution.

Goodell is wrong for blackmailing Gruden. He may or may not be wrong about being so massively offended by being called a homosexual.

[Joemailman]

Gruden's criticism of Goodell is insensitive but not overly hateful. Gruden is certainly wrong for his choice of words, but it doesn't make him evil or even prejudiced. People really do live to overuse the word hate, but Nassib said he respects Gruden. I trust him before anyone else in the world concerning how Gruden treats gays.

If Goodell actually did pressure Fischer into drafting Michael Sam, which I am dubious about, then Gruden's criticism is actually valid except in its execution.

Goodell is wrong for blackmailing Gruden. He may or may not be wrong about being so massively offended by being called a homosexual.

Except Gruden didn't call Goodell a homosexual. He called him a faggot, which is a derogatory term toward anyone who is homosexual. That is the problem. Gruden justifiably likely never would have been hired by the Raiders if his comments had been known at the time. So there is some justice in Gruden losing his job, since he never deserved the job in the first place, even if the way it came about is troubling to many.

For the record, Jeff Fisher has said on one from the NFL ever encouraged him to or discouraged him from drafting Michael Sam.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBikzF6XMAc0diC?format=jpg&name=small

[smuggler]

Oh of course. I'm not arguing Gruden is allowed to say what he said. I'm saying the league is WORSE.

[George Cumby]

^ Agreed. I think you're restating what Guinness addressed early on in the thread.

The League is about generating $ for the owners and protecting the owners. Chucky is, when it gets down to brass tacks, small fry compared to the likes of Jerrah, Snyder, Khaaaaaaaaaaan! and the rest of the billionaires boy's club.

The League needs players, even those that behave deplorably.

Gruden's a nice sacrifice to their Golden Calf.

[bobblehead]

Man, that's some fancy defense lawyering. He hates on Goodell for pressuring a GM to "draft queers." (BTW, Did Goodell actually do this?) But you say this is only a knock on Goodell.

Anyway, lots of people find the guy offensive, in a dozen different ways. And that's just from limited stuff that's been released.

A lot of ppl have been smeared by old tweets and emails. I agree the purge is too much and unfortunate. In general, as long as people aren't causing problems currently, nothing accomplished by digging up the past.

Personally I absolutely think that goodell pressured the Rams to draft Sams. The team at the time had the deepest most talented DL in the league. Sams was going to go undrafted. I think Goodell promised them a better comp pick to draft him because it would be undeniable he wasn't good enough to make that team. Shrewd move by Mr. Commish to show the world Sams wasn't being biased against while virtually assuring he wouldn't make a roster.

[bobblehead]

Oh...and i think Sams is very shrewd too. He knew he wasn't good enough, but by coming out as gay when he did, he assured Goodell would pressure some team to draft him. If no one drafted him I think he would have filed a lawsuit. Notice when Nassib came out the world yawned. Guy can play so no one cares who he loves. Sams wasn't any good, and the world also didn't care who he loved, but if he went undrafted it would open a lawsuit up.

[smuggler]

I think Sam doing what he did when he did it gave him something to hang his hat on. I don't know if he would have leveraged a lawsuit. Certainly not one that actually went to court.

[scharpcheddar]

Another staged propaganda event

[Fritz]

Personally I absolutely think that goodell pressured the Rams to draft Sams. The team at the time had the deepest most talented DL in the league. Sams was going to go undrafted. I think Goodell promised them a better comp pick to draft him because it would be undeniable he wasn't good enough to make that team. Shrewd move by Mr. Commish to show the world Sams wasn't being biased against while virtually assuring he wouldn't make a roster.

If this is the case, and I don't think it is, then lots of guys who look to be undrafted ought to suddenly post that they are part of the LGBTQ+ community, maybe post some RuPaul-ish pics or something, or announce they're undergoing a sex change.

Maybe I should be an agent. Another way for a borderline player to burnish their resume!

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Personally I absolutely think that goodell pressured the Rams to draft Sams. The team at the time had the deepest most talented DL in the league. Sams was going to go undrafted. I think Goodell promised them a better comp pick to draft him because it would be undeniable he wasn't good enough to make that team. Shrewd move by Mr. Commish to show the world Sams wasn't being biased against while virtually assuring he wouldn't make a roster.

Michael Sam had a good rookie preseason, especially against our beloved Pack (2 sacks vs Pack, if I recall correctly). You could argue that his production came against scrubs. Well, so was Jayrone Elliot’s. Elliot made the Pack’s 53 for three STRAIGHT (pun unintended) seasons despite not doing shit in the regular season.

In a league where scouts and GMs usually have hard-ons for pass rushers (remember Wolf’s hard-on for Jamal Reynolds, or Thompson’s for Justin Harrell?), young uns with pass rushing potentials usually have a spot on an NFL rooster. No doubt, Michael Sam was blackballed from the NFL b/c he digs men.

[Joemailman]

Michael Sam had a good rookie preseason, especially against our beloved Pack (2 sacks vs Pack, if I recall correctly). You could argue that his production came against scrubs. Well, so was Jayrone Elliot’s. Elliot made the Pack’s 53 for three STRAIGHT (pun unintended) seasons despite not doing shit in the regular season.

In a league where scouts and GMs usually have hard-ons for pass rushers (remember Wolf’s hard-on for Jamal Reynolds, or Thompson’s for Justin Harrell?), young uns with pass rushing potentials usually have a spot on an NFL rooster. No doubt, Michael Sam was blackballed from the NFL b/c he digs men.

I agree. I remember being surprised when he was cut. 4th round picks who look good in preseason don't usually get cut. Teams will at least keep a guy like that for a while to see if he has some upside.

[smuggler]

He wasn't a pass rush specialist with physical talent trying to harness it by improving technique and skill. He was an average college athlete with well developed PR techniques and no special teams value. In short, he was a low-ceiling prospect with arguably a low floor as well. It could be argued that the same socio-political circus that got him (over)drafted also made him even less appealing as a FA once he failed to make the Rams.

Anybody that believed at the time that he was blackballed was eating up the news media narrative and not embracing the facts of the matter.

Anybody holding that line now is either deliberately revising history for the sake of that narrative or they're just wrong because they fell for it themselves the first time around.

Sorry boys, but you look dumb as fuck on this one. It happens sometimes.

[Sparkey]

He was SEC player of year with 10 sacks in 2013. He also was a 7tg round pick so it's not like they wasted a pick on what otherwise would have been a sure thing.

[Joemailman]

My bad. I thought he was a 4th round pick. As a 7th round pick, his release is less suspicious. I still think though it's likely that his coming out affected his draft status, at least with some teams.

[smuggler]

In your defense, I do recall one site had him graded 4th-5th round or something. Might have been Walter Football. One of those sites that puts a lot of scouting value on college production as opposed to future projection.

[bobblehead]

Why stop there? Publish the private emails of all Packerrats members!

That Carr said what he did indicates a serious lack of thought on his part.

I'm sure that Carr knows for damn sure and has even received racist texts from teammates. Or at least things worse than Gruden was guilty of.

[bobblehead]

Man, that's some fancy defense lawyering. He hates on Goodell for pressuring a GM to "draft queers." (BTW, Did Goodell actually do this?) But you say this is only a knock on Goodell.

Anyway, lots of people find the guy offensive, in a dozen different ways. And that's just from limited stuff that's been released.

A lot of ppl have been smeared by old tweets and emails. I agree the purge is too much and unfortunate. In general, as long as people aren't causing problems currently, nothing accomplished by digging up the past.

Maybe he hates the Commish pressuring a GM to draft anyone for a political reason and the fact that Sams was gay is why he chose offensive language. Come on Harlan, tell me you have NEVER referenced someones race or gender in any way when you were upset. If you had a private conversation about the female official on the field you could be cancelled just cuz you noticed it an commented on it. Some fancy lawyer as you put it would twist your words where even if you were saying you were in favor of it you are a misogynist and need to go.

[bobblehead]

Michael Sam had a good rookie preseason, especially against our beloved Pack (2 sacks vs Pack, if I recall correctly). You could argue that his production came against scrubs. Well, so was Jayrone Elliot’s. Elliot made the Pack’s 53 for three STRAIGHT (pun unintended) seasons despite not doing shit in the regular season.

In a league where scouts and GMs usually have hard-ons for pass rushers (remember Wolf’s hard-on for Jamal Reynolds, or Thompson’s for Justin Harrell?), young uns with pass rushing potentials usually have a spot on an NFL rooster. No doubt, Michael Sam was blackballed from the NFL b/c he digs men.

I don't know the color of the balls Michael prefers, but he failed to make a roste because he simply wasn't good enough. End of story.

[bobblehead]

I agree. I remember being surprised when he was cut. 4th round picks who look good in preseason don't usually get cut. Teams will at least keep a guy like that for a while to see if he has some upside.

I agree 4th round picks don't usually get cut. Sams wasn't a 4th round pick though. Fake news here on your part.

[smuggler]

Joe already corrected himself above.

[run pMc]

Sam was a 6-2 260 DE who ran a 4.9. That's slow for an OLB. Lots of guys do well in college but can't make it in the pros. Sam was draftable as a late round flyer or UDFA but not much more... certainly not a R4.

I wouldn't be surprised if Goodell pressured teams to draft him for the optics, regardless of what someone says.

Personally, I didn't want GB to draft him because I didn't think his game would translate to the pros. Ted took Janis that year instead; I suppose Sam might have had ST value but Janis gave them more production that Sam would have.

As for Gruden and the emails, I wouldn't be sad if someone leaked the other 650000 emails from WFT. I bet there's other stuff in there the league doesn't want anyone to see and they probably burned the servers.

[smuggler]

I bet there's other stuff in there the league doesn't want anyone to see and they probably burned the servers.

Par for the course. They took that route with the Spygate footage.

[NewsBruin]

Gruden's just a patsy to keep the furor off Allen and Snyder. Plus, he hurt Goodell's feelings.

I wish AL Davis' son had more Raider in him to speak out about it, but he just harrumphed to the press.

[Guiness]

Gruden's just a patsy to keep the furor off Allen and Snyder. Plus, he hurt Goodell's feelings.

I wish AL Davis' son had more Raider in him to speak out about it, but he just harrumphed to the press.

Agreed Bruin - if Davis Jr. had, in his father's tradition, flipped the bird to Goodell, said "I'm one of 32 independent businesses, come get me bro" then we would've had some entertainment out of this that would last for a while!