Studs and Duds, Futbol Team:

[George Cumby]

Studs:

Gary, the Highlight Reel.

Lowry.

[George Cumby]

Duds:

Run game.

Dillon.

[smuggler]

Nice to see us force four fumbles. Next time we should recover two or more!

[Upnorth]

Stud: rodgers. His best game this season for accuracy and he helped his oline

Dud: the oline. That was garbage pass protection and run blocking. Just horrible. Against any kind of secondary it would have been a nightmare. I don't remember the last time I saw them this bad... Maybe 2006.

[RashanGary]

We need to get Bakh back. And then Josh Meyers

If you go

Bakh
Jenkins
Meyers
Patrick
Turner

All of a sudden things look a lot better going forward.


Next year, turner will probably be gone abd Jenkins will become the RT and his contract will
be a tackle contract.

[RashanGary]

I think Newman has a future but he needs to get a year under his belt before he’s playing full time.

[Joemailman]

We need to get Bakh back. And then Josh Meyers

If you go

Bakh
Jenkins
Meyers
Patrick
Turner

All of a sudden things look a lot better going forward.


Next year, turner will probably be gone abd Jenkins will become the RT and his contract will
be a tackle contract.

Getting Bakh up to speed will actually improve the Packers at 2 positions, LG and LT. Maybe 3 if they move Runyan to RG.

[Joemailman]

Stud: rodgers. His best game this season for accuracy and he helped his oline

Dud: the oline. That was garbage pass protection and run blocking. Just horrible. Against any kind of secondary it would have been a nightmare. I don't remember the last time I saw them this bad... Maybe 2006.

It wasn't that bad. At Tampa Bay last year was worse. They get a dud, but it's not a historic dud.

[texaspackerbacker]

I've said many times, we can win with Aaron Rodgers even with shoddy O Line play. In fairness, this was an excellent D Line, probably better than San Fran or New Orleans. I honestly don't think getting Bakhtiari back will be much of a factor at Tackle although it will help to get Jenkins back to LG. Even though Patrick was surprisingly good against the Bears (not so much today), it will be good to get Meyers back.

Duds: Dillon has to clean up the fumbling. Crosby showed signs of another bad day - the low kick, the barely good extra point - before shaping up on the last one. Henry Black looked pretty bad every time I saw him. I hope we get Vernon Scott back soon. That's about it other than the O Line and the D Line in the first half and outside the red zone.

Studs: As others mentioned, obviously Gary. Many - Stokes, Amos, Sullivan, Savage, Campbell, Douglas, etc. as well as the D Lineand LBs - were way more good than bad, but each had some noticeable bad plays too. Bojorquez was a stud again. Also, I was impressed by our kick off coverage. Each time Crosby didn't get it into the endzone, they tacked the returner inside the 25.

[RashanGary]

Runyan and Newman are struggling.

When Bakh gets back, Jenkins at LG is an instant improvement.

When Meyers gets back, having Patrick slide over fixes the Newman problem.

Newman will be a fine starting guard next year. This year is just too soon.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Runyan and Patrick have been mostly decent, but struggled in this game. Newman has been struggling for awhile.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I’d like to see Runyan get the nod at RG, but I think the competition is still open between Runyan and Patrick.

[RashanGary]

Gary played great.

Stokes is a good rookie and going to be a great player. I can’t wait for his second year, lining up opposite of Jaire. We’re gonna have good CB play for a bunch of years.

[call_me_ishmael]

I didn't see the game, but that is excellent to hear that Gary played a great game. I am on record that he is a fraud, so hopefully this is another instance where I'm wrong.

[smuggler]

Runyan playing next to Patrick instead of Myers probably isn't helping. Newman is going to just take his lumps all year until we can get him onto the bench.

[call_me_ishmael]

How good is are the Packers, Harvey?

[Bretsky]

How good is are the Packers, Harvey?



The great question; my gut says we are very good. A borderline SB contender.

We have to get home field advantage to get to TB imo

[Upnorth]

When healthy we are a sb team. Right now getti g out of the wc round will be close. Like vrs Bengals close.

Stokes played like a rookie with a great future. Loved seeing that.

I'm so frustrated by dillion.

Also wanted to give big props to big dog and tonyon. That kind of te play helps on so many levels and concepts. Glad this game is on tape to give other d another wrinkle to plan for.

[HarveyWallbangers]

How good is are the Packers, Harvey?

Not as good as their record right now, but I like their chances if they can be healthy for the playoffs. We need Jaire and Bakh come playoff time + most of our other studs. Positive developments: Lots of depth on the OL with the emergence of the young, interior OL and Nijman. Gary has taken the step to good starter--which has offset the loss of Big Z. Stokes looks like the real deal. Campbell was a really good find.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The great question; my gut says we are very good. A borderline SB contender.

We have to get home field advantage to get to TB imo

Unfortunately, I don't see it happening. Tampa Bay has a cakewalk schedule. They have a tough game against Buffalo, but otherwise their toughest opponents are New Orleans twice and Indianapolis. Their other games are against Washington, Giants, Jets, Atlanta, and Carolina twice. We have a really tough schedule: Arizona, Rams, Baltimore, Cleveland, Kansas City, Minnesota twice, Seattle probably with Russ. I don't see any way we finish ahead of Tampa Bay. I'm just hoping some other team gets home field advantage.

[Joemailman]

The great question; my gut says we are very good. A borderline SB contender.

We have to get home field advantage to get to TB imo

I think the bigger key is to be healthy. I would rather play them in Tampa Bay with Bakhtiari, Alexander, Smiths etc. than play in Green Bay without them.

[SudsMcBucky]

Unfortunately, I don't see it happening. Tampa Bay has a cakewalk schedule. They have a tough game against Buffalo, but otherwise their toughest opponents are New Orleans twice and Indianapolis. Their other games are against Washington, Giants, Jets, Atlanta, and Carolina twice. We have a really tough schedule: Arizona, Rams, Baltimore, Cleveland, Kansas City, Minnesota twice, Seattle probably with Russ. I don't see any way we finish ahead of Tampa Bay. I'm just hoping some other team gets home field advantage.

It baffles me that with the way schedules are set that a reigning SB champ can have that shitty of a schedule. *U*K*G Tom Brady!!!!

[texaspackerbacker]

I was thinking that too about the schedule.

As for injuries, getting Jaire back would be huge, Zadarius not so much and Bakhtiari even less. We seem to have moved on from Z very well. And as I've always said, Bakhtiari is overrated - as is the importance of his position in general. It will be nice to get Jenkins back at Guard, though.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I was thinking that too about the schedule.

As for injuries, getting Jaire back would be huge, Zadarius not so much and Bakhtiari even less. We seem to have moved on from Z very well. And as I've always said, Bakhtiari is overrated - as is the importance of his position in general. It will be nice to get Jenkins back at Guard, though.

Just stop. Bakh is a better LT than Jenkins, and Jenkins is much better than Patrick, Runyan, or Newman. Getting Bakh to full healthy will improve the OL.

[KYPack]

Just stop. Bakh is a better LT than Jenkins, and Jenkins is much better than Patrick, Runyan, or Newman. Getting Bakh to full healthy will improve the OL.

Yeah Tex. We blew your " Bakhtiari is overrated" bullshit out of the water last year. He is one of the top LT's in the league and we need him for the stretch run. Keep selling that, but nobody is buying it.

The Rodgers doesn't need a good Oline rap is weak also.

Nobody has 5 All Pros in the Oline, but your do need capable lineman to pass the ball and run it in a balanced offense.

[King Friday]

I think the bigger key is to be healthy. I would rather play them in Tampa Bay with Bakhtiari, Alexander, Smiths etc. than play in Green Bay without them.

This.

If we don't have Bak or Jaire, it will be very tough to beat Tampa Bay if they remain healthy.

[CaptainKickass]

Studs:
- The Lounge Lazard - completely owning it during the one drive
- Literally the entire defense for doing what they did especially while being on the field for as long as they were. The time of possession completely favored Football Team.

Dud:
- Running game

[texaspackerbacker]

Yeah Tex. We blew your " Bakhtiari is overrated" bullshit out of the water last year. He is one of the top LT's in the league and we need him for the stretch run. Keep selling that, but nobody is buying it.

The Rodgers doesn't need a good Oline rap is weak also.

Nobody has 5 All Pros in the Oline, but your do need capable lineman to pass the ball and run it in a balanced offense.

Really? How? Arguably we have done as good or better without him, and arguably we would struggle as much against good D Lines with Bakhtiari as without him. I hope Bakhtiari comes back soon because it will help the running game getting Jenkins back at Guard. After the Bears game and the Blueskins game, ya'all still don't come to the conclusion that Rodgers generally performs great and wins games without decent O Line play? even against the top D Lines? The O Line is more of a factor in the running game - Dillon is sunk without it, and Aaron Jones is less effective although he still makes a lot of plays even without decent O Line blocking.

[Fritz]

Tex, even if you keep telling your wife, year after year, that you are well hung, she knows better when you drop your drawers.

There are some things that don't come true simply through repetition.

[George Cumby]

Arguably we have done as good or better without him, and arguably we would struggle as much against good D Lines with Bakhtiari as without him.

Hahahahhaha.

[RashanGary]

The problem with Bakh is he won’t be 100%

[run pMc]

Per Packers Wire:

Rodgers completed 27 of 31 passes from clean pockets, hit two “big time throws,” was 3-for-4 when throwing beyond 20 yards and scrambled twice for 17 yards.

So he was 0-4 and sacked 3 times on the other occasions (i.e., not-clean pockets). In other words, having decent OL blocking matters in the passing game.

What happens when Bahktiari starts at LT and Jenkins moves back to LG? They have to give less help blocking and Tonyan and the others can be fully utilized in MLF's scheme. If Bahktiari is truly JAG then he'd need as much help as Njiman or Jenkins does at LT.
OL matters.

[smuggler]

Is there any other PR poster with as bad of takes concerning the OL as tex?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Dud: the oline. That was garbage pass protection and run blocking. Just horrible. Against any kind of secondary it would have been a nightmare. I don't remember the last time I saw them this bad... Maybe 2006.

2nd half better

[texaspackerbacker]

Tex, even if you keep telling your wife, year after year, that you are well hung, she knows better when you drop your drawers.

There are some things that don't come true simply through repetition.

Truth is truth until proven false hahahahaha - whichever truth you might be talking about.

Whiners and dumbasses (Cumby) as well as competent but misguided posters can uh, what was that line? keep saying it over and over? But that doesn't make it true. We have played good and beaten just about everybody over the past three seasons with or without Bakhtiari, and we have lost to a few teams even with him. The determining factor (obviously) is Aaron Rodgers winning game - and very rarely losing when he has a bad one.

Repetition that this obvious fact isn't true does not make it untrue. Does anybody have anything other than that stupid repetition to the contrary? What happened last Sunday - and so-o-o-o-o many other times? O Line play has ranged from mediocre to downright bad, and we won anyway. Are any of ya'all gonna dispute that?

[KYPack]

Your Bakhtiari is overrated bullshit is weak. It makes me doubt your overall football knowledge. You've been watching football a long time?

You haven't learned how to ID a marquee Olineman?

Why not?

See Fritz's comment and triple it for me.

[texaspackerbacker]

Per Packers Wire:


So he was 0-4 and sacked 3 times on the other occasions (i.e., not-clean pockets). In other words, having decent OL blocking matters in the passing game.

What happens when Bahktiari starts at LT and Jenkins moves back to LG? They have to give less help blocking and Tonyan and the others can be fully utilized in MLF's scheme. If Bahktiari is truly JAG then he'd need as much help as Njiman or Jenkins does at LT.
OL matters.

hahaha When is this "0-4 and sacked 3 times" you're talking about?

FWIW, I didn't say Bakhtiari is "JAG", just that he's overrated, and the position he plays is overrated in importance. Of the 32-7 we've gone the past three seasons, what part of that was Bakhtiari there, and what part not there? I'd check myself, except the burden of proof is on ya'all whiners who say I'm wrong.

smuggler, don't know, don't care .... oops, I guess I better say I don't know, and I don't care, so that North Korean shithead can understand.

[texaspackerbacker]

Your Bakhtiari is overrated bullshit is weak. It makes me doubt your overall football knowledge. You've been watching football a long time?

You haven't learned how to ID a marquee Olineman?

Why not?

See Fritz's comment and triple it for me.

Yet all you can do is whine and not point out any facts to the contrary.

What "ID a marquee Olineman"? I don't recall the question being asked, but Jerry Kramer was pretty good, and Forest Gregg too. I haven't really thought much about it regarding players from other teams, and I can't recall anybody that stands out more recently for the Packers. We've been looking and not finding since long before Mandarich. How is that relevant to anything?

[RashanGary]

We’ve eeked out some ugly wins. But we all should have known the OL was going to be a problem going into the season.

We’ve weathered the storm better than I expected. 6-1 is outstanding.

Bakh is on the verge of coming back. He is not going to be 100%. We’ll probably get about equal production from Bakh as weve gotten from Jenkins.

It’s inside where we should see the biggest improvements. Jenkins will be a monster upgrade at LG. And once Meyers comes back, Patrick will be a nice upgrade over Newman. Going forward we look to be much stronger inside than we have been so far.

[RashanGary]

Let’s hope Jaire comes back healthy too. That would be a big help to our defense.

We are not a contender right now. That’s just the simple and obvious reality that we’re lucky to be 6-1.

With some huge health luck (jaire, Bakh, Z) all coming back before seasons end and somehow staying mostly healthy otherwise, we have a shot.

It’s always easier to predict a team won’t win the super bowl because one of 32 teams wins and the odds are against every team. But we’re really not a contender right now. I don’t care about the 6-1 record. We’re just not there.

[Bretsky]

Let’s hope Jaire comes back healthy too. That would be a big help to our defense.

We are not a contender right now. That’s just the simple and obvious reality that we’re lucky to be 6-1.




I would agree with this but with that being said the national media generally considers us a contender. I think out 6 and 1 record shows how great of a Matty is doing as a HC and it helps to have superior QB play as well.

We can be a contender though; we just need a bunch of injured players back healthy

[HarveyWallbangers]

I would agree with this but with that being said the national media generally considers us a contender. I think out 6 and 1 record shows how great of a Matty is doing as a HC and it helps to have superior QB play as well.

We can be a contender though; we just need a bunch of injured players back healthy

Yep. If we were 6-1 with Bakh, Jaire, Big Z, Elgton, I would have said that we are contenders, but we need to stay healthy. Now, I'd say we are contenders, if we can get and stay healthy.

[Fritz]

One question I have - we all have - is whether the Packers can get to and win a SB without Dr. Z. Sure, Gary is playing better, but having the Smith Bros and Gary was a trump card for that defense.

I think that we all probably agree if Jaire cannot come back and play well in the playoffs, this team won't get far.

[RashanGary]

One question I have - we all have - is whether the Packers can get to and win a SB without Dr. Z. Sure, Gary is playing better, but having the Smith Bros and Gary was a trump card for that defense.

I think that we all probably agree if Jaire cannot come back and play well in the playoffs, this team won't get far.

If Z somehow comes back abd we have Z, P, Gary and Mercilus, damn!

[run pMc]

It's close, but I think getting Jaire back will be more important than getting Z back. They've been able to manufacture some pass rush moving Clark around and with Preston/Gary.
Getting both back would obviously be a big boost. I'm not optimistic about Z if it's anything beyond very very minor back surgery.

[run pMc]

hahaha When is this "0-4 and sacked 3 times" you're talking about?

FWIW, I didn't say Bakhtiari is "JAG", just that he's overrated, and the position he plays is overrated in importance. Of the 32-7 we've gone the past three seasons, what part of that was Bakhtiari there, and what part not there? I'd check myself, except the burden of proof is on ya'all whiners who say I'm wrong.

smuggler, don't know, don't care .... oops, I guess I better say I don't know, and I don't care, so that North Korean shithead can understand.

I'll bite.
(1) the 0-4 and 3 sacks numbers are out there for public consumption by the stats counters.

(2) ok, so Bahk isn't a JAG, but you think both he and the LT position is overrated? Or all OL positions overrated?
Would you rather have Marshall Newhouse, Allen Barbre, or David Bahktiari at OT?
I'm genuinely curious what value you place on the OL and LT.
What about RT? Is Billy Turner overrated?
Is anything short of HOF a 'non-marquee OL'?
Why do you think so many teams put such importance on the LT position?
Of the 32-7, Bahk has been around for the majority of it. Do you think Bahktiari would have helped them against TB in the NFCCG?

(3) no comment/interest re: whatever beef you have with others.

I think you attribute too much of the team's success to the QB. Without at least league-average blocking, their offense wouldn't be nearly as good. They've been better than league-average statistically, and that's with Stenavich coaching up rookies like Runyan last year and Myers/Newman this year.
Is Bahk overpaid? Probably, but believe it or not he is one of the best LTs in the game today (by objective and subjective measures you can find online), and GB needed to pay market rate to keep him (and keep Rodgers happy/healthy).

[George Cumby]

. oops, I guess I better say I don't know, and I don't care, so that North Korean shithead can understand.

Lol.

Your true colors, baby.

[Upnorth]

I think bakh is going to be 1st ballot hof. 5 time all pro. Saying he is anything less than ridiculously great at his job is foolish. I have never seen a statistic in the last 5 years that shows some level below amazing. Plus the eyeball test. He gives up as many pressures in a year as many average of do in a couple games.

Any packer fan who watches the games shoukd see this.

[RashanGary]

I think bakh is going to be 1st ballot hof. 5 time all pro. Saying he is anything less than ridiculously great at his job is foolish. I have never seen a statistic in the last 5 years that shows some level below amazing. Plus the eyeball test. He gives up as many pressures in a year as many average of do in a couple games.

Any packer fan who watches the games shoukd see this.

And he gets very little help. He’s been a rock. I worry he’s not going to be the same for a year, coming off that injury that took him off of his feet for most of a year. But he’s been so solid.

I don’t know if he’s a HOFer. Packer HOF for sure but he’s gonna have to do quite a bit more to get into the pro football HOF.

[George Cumby]

Packers HOF for sure.

I don't think NFL HOF.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It's close, but I think getting Jaire back will be more important than getting Z back. They've been able to manufacture some pass rush moving Clark around and with Preston/Gary.
Getting both back would obviously be a big boost. I'm not optimistic about Z if it's anything beyond very very minor back surgery.

I don't think it's that close. All-around, Gary has been close to Big Z last year (Big Z was better in 2019). Pressures, QB hits are as good as Big Z. Sacks not quite there. Run defense better. Mercilus could give us what Gary provided last year. Preston is in shape and has been better. We absolutely have to have Jaire come playoff time. If he ends up getting surgery, I will be much more down on our chances.

[RashanGary]

I don't think it's that close. All-around, Gary has been close to Big Z last year (Big Z was better in 2019). Pressures, QB hits are as good as Big Z. Sacks not quite there. Run defense better. Mercilus could give us what Gary provided last year. Preston is in shape and has been better. We absolutely have to have Jaire come playoff time. If he ends up getting surgery, I will be much more down on our chances.

My opinion has been swayed. Some health luck is needed but we have a shot.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'll bite.
(1) the 0-4 and 3 sacks numbers are out there for public consumption by the stats counters.

(2) ok, so Bahk isn't a JAG, but you think both he and the LT position is overrated? Or all OL positions overrated?
Would you rather have Marshall Newhouse, Allen Barbre, or David Bahktiari at OT?
I'm genuinely curious what value you place on the OL and LT.
What about RT? Is Billy Turner overrated?
Is anything short of HOF a 'non-marquee OL'?
Why do you think so many teams put such importance on the LT position?
Of the 32-7, Bahk has been around for the majority of it. Do you think Bahktiari would have helped them against TB in the NFCCG?

(3) no comment/interest re: whatever beef you have with others.

I think you attribute too much of the team's success to the QB. Without at least league-average blocking, their offense wouldn't be nearly as good. They've been better than league-average statistically, and that's with Stenavich coaching up rookies like Runyan last year and Myers/Newman this year.
Is Bahk overpaid? Probably, but believe it or not he is one of the best LTs in the game today (by objective and subjective measures you can find online), and GB needed to pay market rate to keep him (and keep Rodgers happy/healthy).

Your 1: what are you even talking about - 0-4 and 3 sacks in what games?

Your 2: of course, Bakhtiari is better than Barbre or House - just about any NFL O Lineman is. But even with those two, did Rodgers get sacked a lot? Did we lose a lot of games? THAT's my point about the lack of importance of the position. Most people don't rate Billy Turner very high, so it's hard to say overrated. He isn't much better than JAG, though IMO. "Is anything short of HOF a 'non-marquee OL'?" - frankly, yes. I tried hard to think of individual O Linemen who really were difference makers, past and present, and there just aren't many. Forming a pocket is more of a group effort. You have one "great" O Lineman, and the D just attacks somewhere else. And there are very damn few times where the Packers get a clean pocket - and I mean over the past years, decades even. Running is a little different. We got some mileage out of Jenkins at Guard next to Linsley last season, and hopefully will again when Meyers is back and Jenkins back at Guard, but I really don't think recall seeing many good runs over Bakhtiari - ever. My point on the 32-7 was where do you get 0-4 in that? And of the games Bakhtiari has missed in that time, what is the record? I bet not too bad. And honestly, I don't think Bakhtiari woulda made much difference against Tampa. They were a great D playing fired up. Bakhtiari wouldn't even have been on Vea, and they could easily move JPP around - assuming Bakhtiari is good enough to block him.

Your 3: no beef with you - I'm a counter puncher, and when I call somebody a shithead or whatever, it's almost always in reaction - and true.

Difference makers IMO almost always are QBs and D players, and to a lesser extent, RBs and Receivers - almost never O Linemen. And being a difference maker is what makes somebody a "marquee player" or should.

Yes, I attribute an extreme amount of the team's success to Rodgers - that to me is slam dunk obvious. I don't think we've ever had "at least league -average blocking" since he has been the QB, yet we win and win and win. Put 5 plugs across the line to take up space, House, Barbre, and several others I can't think of the name of, and we'd be just about as good in the passing game. I do agree, though, that Stenavich is apparently a good O Line coach, having seen several worse ones over the years. Correct, they probably paid what they needed to pay to keep Bakhtiari, and correct, he is regarded as one of the best LTs, so I suppose he ain't overpaid. And of course, as I always say, you can almost always manipulate the cap to make things work. My issue is that LT and O Line in general is overrated in importance, for the Packers with Rodgers, at least, and I'd say results over the Rodgers years absolutely supports that.

Of course, yeah, keeping Rodgers happy is not nothing hahahaha.

[Joemailman]

Packers HOF for sure.

I don't think NFL HOF.

He's a 2-time 1st team All-Pro. That gets him in the discussion. A couple more would get him in. He's only 30 so he's got a shot.

[smuggler]

If he wins a Superb Owl, he really helps his chances, especially if it's in the short term, when he's still in the prime of his career.