More Banjo - Packers vs. Rams

[Joemailman]

Rodgers - 307 yards passing, 2 TD passes, 1 TD running

Cobb -95 yards and a TD. Hope he's okay.

Adams - 104 yards

Dillon -91 yards and a TD.

Rasul Douglas - Pick 6 and 4 PD's.

Offensive line survived against a great defensive front.

Kicking unit still a concern.

9-3 into the bye week!

Discuss.

[George Cumby]

I'm surprised Rodgers had so many yards passing, it felt like less. If he makes some of those other throws, he hits 350.

They need to make Dillon the #1 and use Jones as the change of pace.

This team keeps winning. Pretty impressive.

The bye is so welcome.

[RashanGary]

We’re due for some injury luck. If we can get a couple of our thoroughbreds back, and don’t lose anyone else and maybe get Rodgers toe healed, who knows, this might be our year.

[RashanGary]

I wonder if Rodgers can heal up a little and then get through a game or two without aggravating it. There’s a chance he could be healthy down the stretch too.

[beveaux1]

I think Joe said in the game day thread that Dillon might look like the number 1 RB because his style fit the weak run blocking of our OL with so many starters out.

I think there’s some truth to that. Jones needs a hole and Dillon makes a hole. They both have soft hands and can catch most balls near them. They are also both great in space.

Dillon also fits winter in Green Bay. He could be the best winter back since Brockington and Lane.

[texaspackerbacker]

First of All, we do NOT need to have Dillon as the primary RB and Jones as the change of pace. Dillon is very very good, for sure, but the team is better when Jones is in there at full strength. If we're talking names from the past, I want another Ahman Green (Jones) as the primary, not another Lacey or Brockington (Dillon) who were damn good, but not as valuable as a true breakaway back.

Secondly, it really is all about Aaron Rodgers. Our O Line wasn't horrible today, but they were far from good too. However, with Rodgers' mobility and quick release, mediocre is plenty good enough. Similarly, Dillon got a lot of yards when the line was pretty mediocre - Jones at 100% would have gotten more, though. No, it's not "Jones needs a hole and Dillon makes a hole"; It's the other way around. Jones jump cuts and squirts through smaller creases than Dillon.

Thirdly, Beckham was actually better than I thought he would be, even though he looked pretty washed up most of the game. However, I'll take Randall Cobb over him in 2021 any day.

Fourthly, this is the kind of game I like - defense is nice, but I prefer a shootout - assuming it ends in a Packer win. This game was nowhere near as close as the score. The Packers dominated what seems like it ought to be the best D in the league.

Fifthly, Coach Drayton deserves positive mention after a lot of the shit he's had thrown at him this season. Cobb's muff was an individual blunder, and the lack of a good kickoff return guy ain't really on the coach. He had his guys fired up to make hard hits and play with discipline on coverage.

Sixthly, I can't help thinking that Crosby is stumbling to the finish line in his career. Hopefully he has enough left in the tank to not fuck things up seriously the rest of this season, and then Molson or somebody else replaces him next season.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers gave a shoutout to EQ. And maybe with Lazard seeming to have regressed, maybe EQ becomes an important player for us down the stretch.

[beveaux1]

Dillon is the only RB we have that can have his hands on the ball 6 consecutive plays with 5 runs and 1 pass caught. Jones can’t hold up to that type of punishment.

Jones is a break away back that has a history of knee problems and has to be used carefully. I think Jones is a real talent, and we should be glad we have him, but for Green Bay in winter, Dillon takes the air out of the ball and can close out a game. He gets better with more carries.

I think as this season progresses, we’ll see Dillon used more than Jones. That means we’re winning the game and closing it out with our running game.

[RashanGary]

Dillon is the only RB we have that can have his hands on the ball 6 consecutive plays with 5 runs and 1 pass caught. Jones can’t hold up to that type of punishment.

Jones is a break away back that has a history of knee problems and has to be used carefully. I think Jones is a real talent, and we should be glad we have him, but for Green Bay in winter, Dillon takes the air out of the ball and can close out a game. He gets better with more carries.

I think as this season progresses, we’ll see Dillon used more than Jones. That means we’re winning the game and closing it out with our running game.

Dillon is more consistent. Jones breaks some big ones that Dillon can’t really. But Jones seems to get tackled for 0-2 yards a lot more often. Dillon moved the pile and gets 3 or 4 every time.

[Guiness]

Did anyone notice when Cobb got hurt? He went out for a play or two earlier, but came back, then just didn't come out of the change room after halftime is all I saw.

He was having a great day

[texaspackerbacker]

Yeah, Dillon takes the air out of the ball and can close out a game. I said, he can do what he can do very well. The thing is, that should be his main role once Jones is back to 100% - that and spelling Jones and getting maybe 25 or 30% of the runs from scrimmage. Other than running out the clock, I don't want to see any Packer RB get "his hands on the ball 6 consecutive plays with 5 runs and 1 pass caught". We absolutely should be a pass first team, with running the ball being a change of pace. And with our mediocre O Line even in the best of times, neither RB is gonna get very many large open holes to run through. The rare times that does happen, I want Jones carrying the ball. But what about the many times when our O Line does not open a decent hole? We saw Dillon doing a good job of pushing the pile and getting decent yardage maybe half or 2/3 of the time. More than a few other times, though, he was stopped before he could get started and knocked down. This is no criticism of Dillon; It says more about our O Line. What about Jones? He was back today, and he showed some flashes, but basically he wasn't his normal self. Normally, he is a better bet to get good yardage than Dillon when the blocking is deficient - most of the time with our O Line - using shiftiness, jump cuts, speed through very small holes, etc. Also, while Dillon is ok as a receiver, Jones is better and can usually do more when he catches it. I'd say both are about equal for pass blocking. Conclusion: Jones is the near superstar who should be in there most of the time. Dillon is the talented up and comer who should have a big role, but not near as much as Jones.

[MadScientist]

Did anyone notice when Cobb got hurt? He went out for a play or two earlier, but came back, then just didn't come out of the change room after halftime is all I saw.

He was having a great day

There was a play (can't say exactly when) where Cobb was coming out of his break and his foot got stepped on by the defender. Thought it was a foot or ankle injury at the time.

[King Friday]

Jones and Dillon are different backs, and the Packers need to ensure they utilize both to their strengths. In some games, Jones will match up better against the opposing defense, and visa versa. Against athletic defensive fronts that cover well from sideline to sideline, Dillon is the better choice as the battering ram because Jones can't get to the edge effectively against those defenses without our best 5 OL players. However, Jones is still a better receiver out of the backfield. Proclaiming one as a #1 over the other is wrong. The only thing that is definitive to me is that Dillon should ALWAYS be the short yardage back. It is stupid to sit the tree trunks on the sidelines with 1 or 2 yards to gain. He has consistently shown the ability to fall forward in those situations, which is expected. I would still love to see the coaching staff use both backs together on occasion to keep the defense guessing.

[King Friday]

As an aside, the decision to go for 2 to go up by 21 was incredibly stupid. I don't care what the "advanced stats" tell you...to me you don't go for 2 until there is a really strong reason to do so. The difference between 20 and 21 isn't a strong reason, because a myriad of scoring can happen between those numbers. To me, pushing to get to 21 is a desperate sign that you don't trust your own team...because you think you have to have that extra point because you think the other team will score 3 unanswered TDs. The failed 2pt conversion also hands momentum to the other team. I would've felt much better being up 12 points with 4 minutes left than being up 11. Don't chase points based on fuzzy math.

[Joemailman]

Did anyone notice when Cobb got hurt? He went out for a play or two earlier, but came back, then just didn't come out of the change room after halftime is all I saw.

He was having a great day

I'm guessing whatever injury he had tightened up at halftime. That injury was huge. Rams had a tough decision to make on where to line up Jalen Ramsey with Cobb and Adams in there. It became much easier for them in the second half.

[Fosco33]

Was a fun day at Lambeau - afternoon to evening game and MKE/gold crowd made it a little louder than I recall. Truly a playoff atmosphere.

[King Friday]

Fifthly, Coach Drayton deserves positive mention after a lot of the shit he's had thrown at him this season. Cobb's muff was an individual blunder, and the lack of a good kickoff return guy ain't really on the coach. He had his guys fired up to make hard hits and play with discipline on coverage.

Not really. The Packers return game is quite possibly the worst in the NFL. Amari didn't catch the first punt, and it was downed inside the 10. Cobb muffed one for a turnover. The rest of the punts went out of bounds, which was probably better for us. Kickoff returns were exceedingly lackluster. There were a couple nice efforts on kick coverage, but most of the good results were due to Ram miscues than Packer excellence.

Drayton still has a piss poor unit. The fact they didn't completely shit down their leg enough for you to want to give him kudos is a sign of just how bad the special teams are.

[texaspackerbacker]

Not really. The Packers return game is quite possibly the worst in the NFL. Amari didn't catch the first punt, and it was downed inside the 10. Cobb muffed one for a turnover. The rest of the punts went out of bounds, which was probably better for us. Kickoff returns were exceedingly lackluster. There were a couple nice efforts on kick coverage, but most of the good results were due to Ram miscues than Packer excellence.

Drayton still has a piss poor unit. The fact they didn't completely shit down their leg enough for you to want to give him kudos is a sign of just how bad the special teams are.

If you just limit it to our kick returns, yeah, although I'm not so sure how much the ST coach is to blame for individual blunders and poor personnel. Ditto that on placekicking. The big improvement, though, and the place where discipline and coaching has the most to do with it is coverage. I applaud Drayton for improving that.

[texaspackerbacker]

As an aside, the decision to go for 2 to go up by 21 was incredibly stupid. I don't care what the "advanced stats" tell you...to me you don't go for 2 until there is a really strong reason to do so. The difference between 20 and 21 isn't a strong reason, because a myriad of scoring can happen between those numbers. To me, pushing to get to 21 is a desperate sign that you don't trust your own team...because you think you have to have that extra point because you think the other team will score 3 unanswered TDs. The failed 2pt conversion also hands momentum to the other team. I would've felt much better being up 12 points with 4 minutes left than being up 11. Don't chase points based on fuzzy math.

I disagree that it was poor strategy. 19 ahead and 20 ahead aren't that much different in likelihood to win, but 21 is significantly better. What pisses me off is that LaFleur, as smart as he is in so many ways, can't seem to design a near sure thing 2 point play like a lot of teams have.

[texaspackerbacker]

Even in short yardage, I'll take Jones if he's 100% most of the time. The exception is a weak or worn out D Line. Then, even with our mediocre O Line, Dillon gets that push. I rewatched the game last night when my wife got home from work, and it really stood out that many times in the first three quarters, Dillon got stuffed for little or no gain. Jones on the other hand, even being less than 100% and even against a great D Line and with a minimum of quality blocking, had that burst to squirt through - just almost breaking it in this game, but in a lot of games, getting away for a big run.

Both have their roles, but Jones should have the primary role.

[smuggler]

Not really a plug, but I recently renewed my subscription to the Athletic because it was on special at $9.99 for the year. They had a good article about the contrasting styles of the Packers and Rams and the irony of the Packers getting the better of the Rams this season and last. I'll link it below, with a link for a 30-day free trial if anyone would like to read. I like them as an alternative to the talking head style of media that ESPN pushes.

"In statement win over Rams, Packers show that going all-in comes in different shapes and sizes" - Matt Schneidman, The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/2984404/2021/11/28/in-statement-win-over-rams-packers-show-that-going-all-in-comes-in-different-shapes-sizes/)

30 day trial link (https://theathletic.com/gp/xdp4on23k9)

Here's an excerpt concerning Mr. Fuckdoggle himself.



The Douglas signing might be the best example of the Packers’ scouting department rolling the dice like that and striking gold.

Douglas was withering away on the Cardinals’ practice squad when the Packers signed him in the first week of October before their Week 5 game against the Bengals. The Packers were his fourth team in 2021 after he spent time with the Raiders, Texans and Cardinals. Douglas has been a stalwart cornerback for a team that desperately needed one after All-Pro Jaire Alexander injured his shoulder in Week 4. Douglas replaced Isaac Yiadom in the lineup after Yiadom’s terrible opening drive against the Bears in Week 6, and he hasn’t looked back.

In Week 8 against the Cardinals, Douglas sealed Green Bay’s 24-21 win by intercepting a Kyler Murray pass in the end zone with 12 seconds remaining. On Sunday against the Rams, Douglas returned an interception of a Matthew Stafford pass for a touchdown to put the Packers up 19 late in the third quarter, and he logged a game-high four passes defended. Two of them came after he got beat by Beckham for a 54-yard touchdown the drive after his pick-six, a rebound head coach Matt LaFleur is sure to highlight in the film room.

“Rasul has been a huge pickup for us,” LaFleur said. “You’ve got to give credit to Gutey and his staff for finding him. I just love how he competes. You see it play in and play out. The guy is so competitive. You see it in practice every day. Obviously he’s made two plays that have made major impacts on games this year. There’s multiple other plays he’s made that have really impacted games. … I think our guys have really embraced him and took him in, and we’re lucky to have a guy like that. It’s rare that you find a guy like that midseason.”

[Tony Oday]

there is no Dana only Rasul

[smuggler]

Only Rasul (https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenBayPackers/comments/r4kk34/only_rasul/)

[run pMc]

The pick-six and the OBJ TD are examples of Rasul's traits -- he's not a burner and only so-so in man coverage (which is likely what's gotten him bounced around the league) but he's got good instincts as a zone corner and can ballhawk in that scheme.

The Jones vs. Dillon debate is unimportant to me honestly. They have different styles. Jones is more of a playmaker, Dillon a bulldozer with surprising versatility. You want both on your team and should play the hot-hand and by matchup. Jones didn't have great stats but the Rams have a stout front -- GB IOL struggled with keeping Aaron Donald from being disruptive. Njiman played well, Turner too.

Kenny Clark played well.

Packers did the things I thought they needed to: run the ball, quick passing, play 2 shell, don't screw up on ST.
Rams have a LOT of talent but they are less than the sum of their parts, plus Stafford historically struggles vs. good teams.

Was really nice surprise to see Rashan Gary and A.Jones play. Hopefully they heal up over the bye. Getting healthy and hopefully some players back will be really important.

getting 3 of Bahktiari, Myers, Z, Jaire back would be a big boost. 3 of next 4 at home... next up da bears.

[Joemailman]

Interesting that Galeai had almost as many snaps as Gary. Packers doing a good job of not overworking Gary and P Smith. Wonder if Gary was on a snap count.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFX5jR7XEBEiVNg?format=jpg&name=medium

[run pMc]

IMO would've been dumb NOT to have him on a snap count. I doubt he was anywhere close to 100% and he's their best pass rusher; they need him healthy for the playoff run.

I was surprised A.Jones played, he was definitely on a snap-count too.

[Joemailman]

How is this not a penalty? https://twitter.com/i/status/1465143251581739012

[smuggler]

It was pretty brief, but yeah that's darn close to being unsportsmanlike conduct/unnecessary roughness imo.

[George Cumby]

How is this not a penalty? https://twitter.com/i/status/1465143251581739012

There you go, jumping to conclusions. What the video didn't show was the OL pointing to his throat indicating he was choking on a turkey bone. It's a little known fact Donald failed his CPR cert, for obvious reasons; he kept confusing the Heimlich maneuver with strangulation. Donald was just trying to help.

[George Cumby]

It was pretty brief, but yeah that's darn close to being assault with GBI likely.

FTFY

[Guiness]

IMO would've been dumb NOT to have him on a snap count. I doubt he was anywhere close to 100% and he's their best pass rusher; they need him healthy for the playoff run.

I was surprised A.Jones played, he was definitely on a snap-count too.

Jones had half the carries Dillon did despite being on the field for the same number of snaps. I think he was on a pitch count and they mostly used him as a decoy.

[Guiness]

Interesting that Galeai had almost as many snaps as Gary. Packers doing a good job of not overworking Gary and P Smith. Wonder if Gary was on a snap count.

Thanks for that mailman.

Wow Clark plays a lot of snaps.
Cobb with a LOT of production in his snaps. Wonder what's wrong with Lazard, he was on the field a lot and not much to show for it on the stat sheet (2 receptions for 13 yards on 6 targets)

[beveaux1]

Thanks for that mailman.

Wow Clark plays a lot of snaps.
Cobb with a LOT of production in his snaps. Wonder what's wrong with Lazard, he was on the field a lot and not much to show for it on the stat sheet (2 receptions for 13 yards on 6 targets)

Lazard is a really good blocker. That keeps him on the field. He is not very reliable as a receiver, though.

[Joemailman]

Thanks for that mailman.

Wow Clark plays a lot of snaps.
Cobb with a LOT of production in his snaps. Wonder what's wrong with Lazard, he was on the field a lot and not much to show for it on the stat sheet (2 receptions for 13 yards on 6 targets)

That was a higher percentage of snaps than normal for Clark, but the actual number of snaps was about his season average. With the Packers controlling the ball most of the day, I guess they felt they could keep Clark out there without him getting tired. Packers had the ball for 39 minutes and had the ball for 20 more snaps than the Rams. Tyler Lancaster only had 6 snaps all day with Clark staying out here.

[run pMc]

Lazard is fighting a shoulder injury, I think it's messing with his ability to hand-fight corners and limits his catch radius. He's a brute but he needs to rest that shoulder and get ready for the final push.

I often feel like Clark plays too many snaps but they have nobody else near his talent level on the DL.

[Joemailman]

Aaron Rodgers pass chart.

https://charts-cdn-c.nextgenstats.nfl.com/static-charts/900/pass-chart_ROD339293_2021-REG-12_1638148862384.jpeg

[Joemailman]

A.J. Dillon carry chart.

https://charts-cdn-b.nextgenstats.nfl.com/static-charts/900/carry-chart_DIL237740_2021-REG-12_1638148873839.jpeg

[George Cumby]

That relentless pounding up the gut has to take the starch out of a defense.

The one TFL was a great play by the Rams ILB.

Rodgers long accuracy is off. I'm guessing that toe is the culprit.

[Joemailman]

That relentless pounding up the gut has to take the starch out of a defense.

The one TFL was a great play by the Rams ILB.

Rodgers long accuracy is off. I'm guessing that toe is the culprit.

Drayton said wind was really affecting punt returners. Could also have been affecting long, high passes.

[George Cumby]

Drayton said wind was really affecting punt returners. Could also have been affecting long, high passes.

Makes sense.

[Fritz]

A writer - I think from Acme - made a good point about the Packers' upcoming game against the Ravens. We'll be treated to one of the best special teams units in the game, so we can see how much Drayton's unit puts the Pack at a disadvantage in comparison.

I am not impressed with Maurice Drayton. He seems like he's always chasing his tail.

[Joemailman]

A writer - I think from Acme - made a good point about the Packers' upcoming game against the Ravens. We'll be treated to one of the best special teams units in the game, so we can see how much Drayton's unit puts the Pack at a disadvantage in comparison.

I am not impressed with Maurice Drayton. He seems like he's always chasing his tail.

He's had to deal with a lot. Went all training camp with the same kicking unit that was great last year. Then on the eve of the season, the holder was cut. Then halfway through the season, the snapper was cut. Lost his KO returner early in the season. Maybe he's stuck with the rookie at punt returner too long, but we don't know what his options are. The KO coverage unit which was a problem early, has ceased to be a problem. Punt coverage seems to have been okay. I think it's too early to say if he's a good coach or not.

[Joemailman]

How is this not a penalty? https://twitter.com/i/status/1465143251581739012

The NFL agreed. Somewhat. Donald fined $10,000.

[smuggler]

Pretty sure that was on 3rd down...

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Wrong thread.

[Fritz]

He's had to deal with a lot. Went all training camp with the same kicking unit that was great last year. Then on the eve of the season, the holder was cut. Then halfway through the season, the snapper was cut. Lost his KO returner early in the season. Maybe he's stuck with the rookie at punt returner too long, but we don't know what his options are. The KO coverage unit which was a problem early, has ceased to be a problem. Punt coverage seems to have been okay. I think it's too early to say if he's a good coach or not.

I suppose that's all true, and the coverage has been better as of late. I think ESB is blooming as a ST player. Maybe the final five games will give us the conclusion. But I am still haunted by the sheer number of mistakes by all aspects in the first half of the season.