Coaches on the Hot Seat

[Fritz]

Well, I don't follow the NFL quite like I used to do, so I'll start this thread and let others fill in the gaps.

I'll start with the only division with which I am really familiar: the ol' NFC North, once known as the NFC Central. This geographical change in designation is not ahistorical: Michigan, Wisconsin, and environs were once call "the western territory" until railroads opened up things farther west, thus changing the moniker to "the midwest."

And in that midwest, it looks like Matt Nagy is a walking ghost. Surely Ryan Pace will can him at season's end so he can have a scapegoat for what have been some mighty whiffs on the GM's part. I'm sure Pace is also hoping people will not notice that he was the one that hired Nagy in the first place . . . No worries for Bears' fans, though. Pace can easily re-stock the cupboard with his five picks in the 2022 draft - though he'll have to do so without a first- and a fourth- round pick.

Sheesh. After writing that, seems like they oughta can Pace first and foremost...

On to Minnesota. I have not seen too much about Mike Zimmer's future, but at this point, the guy's been there forever - this is his eighth year - and what does he have to show for it? There always seem to be preseason rumblings that the rough-and-tough Vikes will be extra tough this year, but the team in fact seems to be on the downswing. Spielman, the GM, also somehows seems to get a lot of credit for his draft acumen, but what has he to show for all of that? Still, he seems to be on safe ground somehow. Maybe he'll can Zimmer and be the GM that uses the coach he hired as a scapegoat for his failures. As for Zimmer, the big question is whether, in the context of Viking history, he's better or worse than Denny Green was. Seems like Denny had a bit more success, though I could be wrong there.

Probably Dan Campbell in Detroit gets a pass, as they have less NFL talent there than the universities of Georgia or Alabama do. However, he makes some really, really weird decisions, and his kooky personality, that "he's-hard-nosed-and-tells-it-like-it-is" thing that so many fans seem to adore in their team's coach, may be wearing a bit thin. Still, he'll likely be back next year, though I imagine the team will have to show some pretty serious improvement, or he might end up as the guy that presided over the rebuild so the next coach could come in and look good. We'll see. Perhaps he should take a page from the Matt Patricia playbook and suck up to the team's new(ish) owner, Sheila Ford. Maybe sending her a picture of himself in nothing but his crocs will buy him some time, depending on how big of a man she thinks he is.

Elsewhere in the NFL, I'm not sure who's who or what's what. I'd imagine Urban Meyer is simply twisting in the wind until the season mercifully ends, and he can then be fired so as to be free to go back to Ohio and visit that sweet twenty-something "family" member he was hugging from behind. And maybe Pete Carroll's act in Seattle has finally worn too thin. He's like McCarthy was in Green Bay - his shelf life may be over after a good initial run.

[Joemailman]

I started a thread on this recently, but didn't get much response. Here's what I had.


Matt Nagy - Bears: After a 12-4 season in 2018, Bears have gone 8-8, 8-8 and 3-7. The guy who was supposed to bring the Andy Reid offense to Chicago has had some of the NFL's worst offenses. There are rumors Nagy will be canned after Thanksgiving game.

Joe Judge - Giants: 6-10 in 2020, 3-7 in 2021. Giants haven't had a winning record since 2015. Not sure how much patience they will have.

Brian Flores - Dolphins: 5-11 in 2019, 10-6 in 2020, 4-7 in 2021. The team regressing in his 3rd year could put him in trouble.

Urban Meyer - Jaguars: Had had some off field issues as well as a 2-8 record. Will ownership decide they've made a mistake and cut their losses?

Rich Bisaccia - Raiders: Raiders are 2-3 under interim coach. They will probably be looking for a fresh start.

Vic Fangio - Broncos: Broncos are 7-9, 5-11 and 5-5 under Fangio. Maybe a late season surge resulting in a playoff berth will save him.

I didn't include Zimmer, but he could be in trouble if they finish below .500.

[George Cumby]

I thought Zimmer would be gone years ago.

I forget how many years ago it was, but he had this mutiny in the defensive backfield where the DB's did what they thought they should do instead of what was being called and were vocal about it.

He soft-pedaled the thing which I thought was a bad sign for a guy who was supposed to be some tough as nails, hard-nosed, old-school coach.

[George Cumby]

Looks like we did good not picking up Fangio as the HC.

[Joemailman]

Looks like we did good not picking up Fangio as the HC.

Well, his starting QB's have been Joe Flacco, Drew Lock, Brandon Allen, Jeff Driskel, Brett Rypien and Teddy Bridgewater. Maybe Elway is the one who should be fired. They'll either fire him or keep him and make a run at Rodgers, Russell Wilson or DeShaun Watson.

But Fangio will probably finish this season with another losing record. Their remaining schedule is Detroit, Cincinnati, @ Las Vegas, @ LA CHargers, Kansas City.

[Fritz]

Well, his starting QB's have been Joe Flacco, Drew Lock, Brandon Allen, Jeff Driskel, Brett Rypien and Teddy Bridgewater. Maybe Elway is the one who should be fired. They'll either fire him or keep him and make a run at Rodgers, Russell Wilson or DeShaun Watson.

But Fangio will probably finish this season with another losing record. Their remaining schedule is Detroit, Cincinnati, @ Las Vegas, @ LA CHargers, Kansas City.

In my great wisdom I thought Fangio would've been a great hire for Green Bay. But maybe his record would be different if he had Rodgers as his starter. But then again, I have no idea who his OC is or what kind of offense they run. Maybe it's not near the level of what The Flower is doing.

[smuggler]

I think hiring a defensive HC would be the equivalent of the organization just conceding the offense to Rodgers, which is probably not healthy. However, if we did have the positives of the offense since McCarthy's departure with Fangio's defensive influence, we probably win the NFC Championship last year.

[Fritz]

https://imagez.tmz.com/image/09/16by9/2021/10/03/09fc4deb4c8b4c6f95b6b93f47b81fb1_md.jpg

Hey, Urban - that seat looks pretty hot!

[RashanGary]

https://imagez.tmz.com/image/09/16by9/2021/10/03/09fc4deb4c8b4c6f95b6b93f47b81fb1_md.jpg

Hey, Urban - that seat looks pretty hot!

Urb is a legend

[texaspackerbacker]

Campbell reminds me of that guy several years ago in Cleveland - he won 1 game in two years, but so many commentators said "but he's such a good coach". To a great extent, it's the players, not the coach that differentiates winning teams from losing teams, but there are plenty of teams, especially chronic losers, where you have to wonder if a lot of it isn't on the coach.

As for that list, Flores has had the Dolphins snap back nicely. I doubt he goes. Carroll too - I hate the guy, but he seems to do more with less than a lot of coaches. Culley of Houston certainly ought to be on the list. Stefanski of Cleveland and Smith of Atlanta also both seem to be in that category of not succeeding to the level of the talent they have to work with. You could even say that about McCarthy in Dallas.

[smuggler]

Hue Jackson? He was legitimately a good motivator, but he was a hideously bad organizational leader, which is a big part out of what you want from a HC.

He wasn't much of an Xs and Os guy, either. He was at his best as a positional coach, but once you ascend to HC, that's a hard pill to swallow.

Pettine was a better HC than Hue Jackson. Worlds better. But it takes a pretty special HC to generate success in Cleveland.

[Fritz]

Good post, Smuggler. I would agree that being a head coach is really about leading an organization and being able to delegate. LeFleur seems comfortable enough with himself to let his coaches have some free rein, though he also isn't afraid to step in if he thinks things are fucked up (he did so once or twice with Pettine and now with Barry earlier in the season). I don't know if he's giving Maurice Drayton as ass-chewing behind the scenes, but I hope so.

Still, part of being that organizational leader is having some creativity, too - like Bretsky's hero, Hoody G., or Holmgren when he first came to Green Bay. But yeah, just being a tough-guy motivator like Jackson or Mike Singletary doesn't carry you too far.

[texaspackerbacker]

Bottom line is winning is all about the players. Losing maybe can be blamed on coaches. No matter how great a coach is, there is a rigid ceiling. However, a rotten coach can lose big time even with quality players.

[bobblehead]

I think Zimmer is gone. As is Fangio. Which sucks cuz we just hired Barry and I've been waiting on those 2 forever. But Barry has been good so I guess its ok. Weird. I also was crushed when Leonard didn't take the job. Maybe things work out.

[bobblehead]

Bottom line is winning is all about the players. Losing maybe can be blamed on coaches. No matter how great a coach is, there is a rigid ceiling. However, a rotten coach can lose big time even with quality players.

Coaching matters a lot tex. Our OLB room is defined by the coach. Our OL isn't great, but down Bak, Jenkins, and Meyers it should be a tire fire. Yea, I know, its all Rodgers.

Just look at the fact that the best QB in the rookie class is on the best coached team. Coincidence?

[call_me_ishmael]

Stenovich is considered by many to be an up and coming coach. Funnily enough, I thought he sounded like he weak link when milf put the coaching staff together.

I actually think Zimmer is a pretty good coach. Who are they going to get that's better and perform better?

[smuggler]

Just look at the fact that the best QB in the rookie class is on the best coached team.

Must be Numerology at work. But you're absolutely right. It takes two to tango. Gotta have at least good coaching to go along with a solid roster and those special few players.

The players with the best success are historic talents combined with quality supporting cast (O/D/ST all together), quality coaching and organizational support, and a little bit of luck.

[call_me_ishmael]

Must be Numerology at work. But you're absolutely right. It takes two to tango. Gotta have at least good coaching to go along with a solid roster and those special few players.

The players with the best success are historic talents combined with quality supporting cast (O/D/ST all together), quality coaching and organizational support, and a little bit of luck.

They are also the best roster and ask him to do the least. But yeah, I agree, coaching puts players in position to play to their strengths and the teams strengths. Belichick is next level, so is Matty MILF.

[smuggler]

Is MLF's middle name Ian? If so, it works.

E: It's Patrick. But he went to Saginaw Valley State, which makes him the third member of the illustrious SVS alumni trio of Packers - the other two being Ruvell Martin and Jeff Janis.

[Sparkey]

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-jaguars-players-coaches-fed-up-with-urban-meyer-on-and-off-field-173919802.html

I am surprised UM is still there.

[run pMc]

Absolutely agree coaching matters. Mike Pettine wasn't a terrible DC, but he rarely if ever got the defense to play up to the sum of its parts. I'm not a Barry fan but he's got them playing better than their sum. I don't think Pettine would be able to withstand losing Jaire & Z, and put the remaining players in position to succeed. (Of course players matter too.)

Zimmer is probably the best HC Minny's had since Denny Green, but he makes some McCarthian mistakes and is too wed to locking down the offense. Minnesota is a high variability team -- one half they look like a contender, the next they look like morons.
I've come to believe you need a good DC, but you want a HC with an offensive background. I don't have any stats in front of me, but I think they tend to do better. Zimmer's got a good defensive mind, but he needs to let the OC run that side of things without interfering. Also, they probably shouldn't go the nepotism route and go from father to son with the Kubiaks.

I think Urban and Nagy are gone. Fangio is a very good DC and could land a job doing that immediately if he chose to, but I don't think he's an above average HC.

Joe Judge should probably be gone -- that team makes dumb mistakes. I'm not sold on Daniel Jones either, but that's another story.

Flores might be gone, but they are doing better now and he's had a lot of garbage and young players to deal with... I think he's actually done a pretty decent job considering where he started, but this year they were underperforming until recently.

Bisaccia won't be back. If you keep your interim coach you're asking for trouble.

Campbell gets a pass because Detroit is in full rebuild mode, and 12 games in it doesn't look like he's lost his team, which is saying something. He gets 3 years (including this one) to show something, barring an Urban Meyer like meltdown.

[Joemailman]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32876891/trevor-lawrence-drama-stop-jacksonville-jaguars-win


JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- If the Jaguars are going to turn things around and start winning games and competing for the playoffs, the drama that has engulfed the franchise has to stop. That's coming from the most important person on the roster: quarterback Trevor Lawrence.

"You're always going to have some form of drama. I've learned that the NFL is just more drama in general than college, no matter where you're at," Lawrence said Wednesday. "But you're right. There's been a lot. To your point, I do think that has to change and that's something that we need to work on for sure.

"So you can't always be in the headlines. You just got to go play football and that's where we're trying to get and I have no doubt we'll get there, but for sure [it has to change]."


Just hours after Lawrence made that comment in his weekly news conference, a report surfaced from the Tampa Bay Times in which former Jaguars kicker Josh Lambo alleged that head coach Urban Meyer kicked him in the leg while stretching in warm-ups before a practice during the week of the final preseason game.

Lambo said Meyer told him, "Hey Dips---, make your f---ing kicks!" and then kicked him in the leg. Lambo characterized the kick as a five out of 10 and then told the Tampa Bay Times he told Meyer: "Don't you ever f---ing kick me again!" Lambo said Meyer told him, "I'm the head ball coach. I'll kick you whenever the f--- I want."

Meyer's agent provided the Tampa Bay Times a statement in which the coach said Lambo's "characterization of me and this incident is completely inaccurate and there are eyewitnesses to refute his account."

Probably the last thing you want is your head coach creating distractions and controversies that the players have to deal with. Hard to come up with a reason for keeping Meyer another year.

[George Cumby]

When a 22 year old kid makes more sense than you as an almost 60 year old man, you might be an asshole.

[Joemailman]

When a 22 year old kid makes more sense than you as an almost 60 year old man, you might be an asshole.

I thought the same thing. Lawrence is displaying more leadership than Meyer has all year.

[call_me_ishmael]

I am honestly shocked that Urban didn't take a college job. Here's a hot take: He wasn't offered one because despite his obvious talent and track record he isn't worth the headache (which means he is one gigantic pain in the ass lol)

[Bretsky]

I am honestly shocked that Urban didn't take a college job. Here's a hot take: He wasn't offered one because despite his obvious talent and track record he isn't worth the headache (which means he is one gigantic pain in the ass lol)



Urban's mojo is to always walk away on his own terms. He doesn't wanna be perceived as a quitter just yet. And he probably knows if he gets fired, he gets to keep a SHITLOAD of Money and there is a good chance that is right around the corner. To his downfall, the Jags owner has always been incredibility intrigued by Urban Meyer. His bias on this without consideration for the massive ego, arrogance, and lack of a fit in the pro game were things he was unable to see

[Joemailman]

Meyer has been fired.


"After deliberation over many weeks and a thorough analysis of the entirety of Urban's tenure with our team, I am bitterly disappointed to arrive at the conclusion that an immediate change is imperative for everyone," Khan said in a statement. "I informed Urban of the change this evening. As I stated in October, regaining our trust and respect was essential. Regrettably, it did not happen."

Khan's statement added: "In the spirit of closure and recharging our players, staff and fan base, I will not comment further until some point following the conclusion of the NFL season."

Offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell will serve as the interim head coach for the remainder of the season and GM Trent Baalke will remain in place, Khan's statement said.

[Bretsky]

Meyer has been fired.

MEYER IS SUCH AN ASSSSSS

Part of me thinks he knew he was over his head and wanted this; HE GETS TO KEEP THE MONEY, RIGHT ??????

Bevell will be a nice transition guy for Lawrence. I'd love to see him as a head coach; I loved him as a Badger. Classed undertalented smart overachiever. But I think that one bad play call in the SB may haunt him forever.

In the end, everybody in college football hates Urban Meyer, except the fan base he coaches for because he's slimy but a great college FB coach.

I hope he never coaches again

[Anti-Polar Bear]

MEYER IS SUCH AN ASSSSSS

Part of me thinks he knew he was over his head and wanted this; HE GETS TO KEEP THE MONEY, RIGHT ??????

Bevell will be a nice transition guy for Lawrence. I'd love to see him as a head coach; I loved him as a Badger. Classed undertalented smart overachiever. But I think that one bad play call in the SB may haunt him forever.

In the end, everybody in college football hates Urban Meyer, except the fan base he coaches for because he's slimy but a great college FB coach.

I hope he never coaches again

Fire Paul Chryst, he who hasn’t won shit at the flagship Wisconsin U and he who can’t recruit hotshot QBs.

Bring in the multi-national champ Meyers! On, Wisconsin! :)

[Tony Oday]

Zimmer might be the most overrated coach in the NFL. His defenses suck, his offenses suck, his record is 75-54 even with spending to the cap every year, a solid QB, top 5 WR pairing year in and year out and elite players on defense. I want him to sign a lifetime contract with the Vikings.

[Sparkey]

Meyer is out in Jacksonville.

Edit, just saw Joe posted the news. That Bahlke is still GM leads me to believe Khan was the guy who pushed for Meyer.

[George Cumby]

Khan was mincing no words. Refreshing.

[Fritz]

Darrell Bevell making a living as an interim coach. I wonder if he's Romanian?

Now watch Notre Dame hire Urban Meyers. If not there, some college will take a chance on him. Maybe he'll have to take a gig at a less prestigious place until he can repair his reputation. I wouldn't touch him with a ten-foot pole, though. What a jagoff.

[Freak Out]

Dude is toxic as hell. Good riddance.

[Joemailman]

Darrell Bevell making a living as an interim coach. I wonder if he's Romanian?

Now watch Notre Dame hire Urban Meyers. If not there, some college will take a chance on him. Maybe he'll have to take a gig at a less prestigious place until he can repair his reputation. I wouldn't touch him with a ten-foot pole, though. What a jagoff.

Notre Dame won't go anywhere near him. I suspect he'll take a year off and then some other college program will hire him. If not he'll end up on television. A couple of years ago one of the networks had him doing analysis on draft night. I thought he was actually quite good at that.

[George Cumby]

There's plenty of second or third tier schools that would hire him for the instant recruiting boost.

[call_me_ishmael]

He will take a year or two off then go to a 2nd tier school and take it to the top. Unless he has irrepairably torched his rep, but my guess is he hasn't and can use the year off to claim he was reformed, etc.

But he ain't sitting out when dude's are getting 10M per year. And team's will look the other way when winning can bring in hundreds of millions of dollars.

[RashanGary]

I think he’s done for. Hope he saved some of that money he’s made.

[Joemailman]

Giants are playing bad football. Can't imagine Judge will be back.

[Joemailman]

Jaguars have requested permission to interview Nathaniel Hackett for HC job. Probably won't be the only team to do so.

[Sparkey]

Jaguars have requested permission to interview Nathaniel Hackett for HC job. Probably won't be the only team to do so.

He was the Jaguars OC from 2016-2018, so in a sense they already know who he is. That he went to GB and has developed a great rapport with Rodgers makes me think he is near the top of their list.

[call_me_ishmael]

Packers OC is a much better job. I'd wait for a better opportunity if I were him. Of course, if Rodgers is gonna leave maybe now is the time. Will give us a good idea if Rodgers is staying or going based on what this dude does.

[texaspackerbacker]

I would agree, Hackett seems like a good coach and a good person, but as for Packers OC being a "better job", anytime you are a coordinator with expertise on the same side of the ball as the head coach, your ability is sort of subordinated. He doesn't get to put it on display, and prospective employers don't necessarily know how much of the team's goodness is from him.

And hell no, Rodgers ain't gonna leave.

[Joemailman]

Packers OC is a much better job. I'd wait for a better opportunity if I were him. Of course, if Rodgers is gonna leave maybe now is the time. Will give us a good idea if Rodgers is staying or going based on what this dude does.

It's a tough call on whether to go to Jacksonville. On one hand, they have a potential franchise QB to work with. On the other hand, the franchise has been mostly dysfunctional under the current owner. It might depend on what Hackett thinks of the GM. I don't believe the GM was responsible for hiring Meyer. That was on the owner.

[Sparkey]

Assuming Hacket leaves for an HC position, I would expect Getsy is high on the list as a replacement OC.

[call_me_ishmael]

It's a tough call on whether to go to Jacksonville. On one hand, they have a potential franchise QB to work with. On the other hand, the franchise has been mostly dysfunctional under the current owner. It might depend on what Hackett thinks of the GM. I don't believe the GM was responsible for hiring Meyer. That was on the owner.

My personal opinion is crap organizations remain crap until they overhaul leadership. The problem seems to be Khan. Shad has has 4 coaches in 10 years. No thanks!

[Sparkey]

My personal opinion is crap organizations remain crap until they overhaul leadership. The problem seems to be Khan. Shad has has 4 coaches in 10 years. No thanks!

Sorry, but if you have a chance to he a head coach for an NFL team you grab it. Your "crap organization" is an opportunity to impart change and show leadership and a vision for others.

[call_me_ishmael]

Sorry, but if you have a chance to he a head coach for an NFL team you grab it. Your "crap organization" is an opportunity to impart change and show leadership and a vision for others.

I disagree, but we can agree to disagree? I’m not in any position to execute my vision haha. But for sure there are tiers of coaching jobs and I would say that coordinator at a top spot is often superior to stay at short term while waiting for a better opening than taking a bottom of the barrel HC job and losing it after 2 years as you are churned through the machine like every other qualified coach has been.