What happens if Rodgers wants to stay but management wants to move on??

[bobblehead]

I didn't want to thread jack a different thread so here it is.

Rodgers current cap number kills us. I never honestly thought he wanted to move on. He was pissed and enjoyed making them squirm. But now, after last night, what happens if they decide they want to move on and grab some sweet draft capital for him. He doesn't want to go anywhere. We can't be competitive with him at the current salary for a year.

This could become a nightmare where we suck next year as the 2 sides dig in. You can't really trade Rodgers if he isn't on board with it.

[Bretsky]

you are right and I never thought of it this way. But I don' think Rodgers will want to stay here and suck. I think he'll need to be very confident we're keeping Adams and will continue to compete. If he stays he'll restructure.

But he can make it hard to deal him for sure

We can win a Super Bowl with lesser talent than this year (sad to say that) if our QB play is great.

[Teamcheez1]

He has two choices: He can retire or be traded. We should not play the same game we did last offseason. Hopefully, the relationship is better so we can approach it like adults. With Rodgers, you never know.

[Bretsky]

He has two choices: He can retire or be traded. We should not play the same game we did last offseason. Hopefully, the relationship is better so we can approach it like adults. With Rodgers, you never know.



I am still fully convinced Matty wants him back

[Teamcheez1]

I am still fully convinced Matty wants him back

MLF said as much in his press conference, but what else was he supposed to say?

[Bretsky]

MLF said as much in his press conference, but what else was he supposed to say?

If you are MLF, do you want Rodgers back; he had a great regular season...........and...........our other option ....is he remotely close to ready ?.

[kcpackman]

What teams could a trade be made with? I suspect the list is short. Would the Steelers be on it? What should the Packers expect in return?

[red]

rodgers said he doesn't want to be part of a re-build, but i don't see how we can keep him without having to cut just about everyone else on the team

[texaspackerbacker]

Fuck all the panicky fools and haters that want to get rid of Rodgers/go from a top team to a perennial loser.

[Bretsky]

rodgers said he doesn't want to be part of a re-build, but i don't see how we can keep him without having to cut just about everyone else on the team



I really think they can keep AROD, Adams and Jaire and maybe Tonyan on a 1 or 2 year deal.

Will have to cut Z and some others.

[kcpackman]

I really think they can keep AROD, Adams and Jaire and maybe Tonyan on a 1 or 2 year deal.

Will have to cut Z and some others.

I agree they can keep those you mention.

[Spaulding]

Does he have a no trade clause? If it wouldn't be surprising to hear they are open to moving him for draft capital and salary cap relief. It's basically the only chance to resign Campbell and/or Douglas and that would also mean moving on from Adams as well. Near term he's a stud but the traditional falloff for WR's on the North side of 30 isn't pretty and nor is paying top dollar for a WR when the QB position would be completely unsettled. . Seems pretty clear we seem to have plateaued with Rodgers and change might be good for both him and the Packers. Obviously might be a step back this coming year until we find a future QB as it doesn't appear that Love is it, but it's not like we're winning titles or even making the Super Bowl with Rodgers and the current roster.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Fuck all the panicky fools and haters that want to get rid of Rodgers/go from a top team to a perennial loser.

Well, that was mature, I guess the proper reply is fuck you too..

[Joemailman]

What teams could a trade be made with? I suspect the list is short. Would the Steelers be on it? What should the Packers expect in return?

Denver seems like the most likely target. 9th pick of draft. 2 2nd round picks. Hackett or Getsy might get the HC job.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Denver seems like the most likely target. 9th pick of draft. 2 2nd round picks. Hackett or Getsy might get the HC job.

That is what the internet speculation is..

[kcpackman]

Denver seems like the most likely target. 9th pick of draft. 2 2nd round picks. Hackett or Getsy might get the HC job.

Yep - that sounds like a better location.

[kcpackman]

Does he have a no trade clause? If it wouldn't be surprising to hear they are open to moving him for draft capital and salary cap relief. It's basically the only chance to resign Campbell and/or Douglas and that would also mean moving on from Adams as well. Near term he's a stud but the traditional falloff for WR's on the North side of 30 isn't pretty and nor is paying top dollar for a WR when the QB position would be completely unsettled. . Seems pretty clear we seem to have plateaued with Rodgers and change might be good for both him and the Packers. Obviously might be a step back this coming year until we find a future QB as it doesn't appear that Love is it, but it's not like we're winning titles or even making the Super Bowl with Rodgers and the current roster.

I dont believe he has a no trade cause - but dont know for sure.

[Joemailman]

Does he have a no trade clause? If it wouldn't be surprising to hear they are open to moving him for draft capital and salary cap relief. It's basically the only chance to resign Campbell and/or Douglas and that would also mean moving on from Adams as well. Near term he's a stud but the traditional falloff for WR's on the North side of 30 isn't pretty and nor is paying top dollar for a WR when the QB position would be completely unsettled. . Seems pretty clear we seem to have plateaued with Rodgers and change might be good for both him and the Packers. Obviously might be a step back this coming year until we find a future QB as it doesn't appear that Love is it, but it's not like we're winning titles or even making the Super Bowl with Rodgers and the current roster.

He doesn't have a no-trade clause. However, I don't think any team will pay a high price for Rodgers unless he agrees to play there.

[texaspackerbacker]

Well, that was mature, I guess the proper reply is fuck you too..

Fuck "mature". How the fuck old are you anyway? Can you beat 74 3/4?

[texaspackerbacker]

The idiocy of this thread is that nobody in their right mind among the Packer brass would WANT to get rid of Rodgers - which would mean the team going in the shitter for the foreseeable future. I've been hot and cold regarding the good sense of Gutekunst, but I'm pretty sure he ain't that stupid.

[Teamcheez1]

I’m not doing the dance with Rodgers again this offseason. Either he gets on board early or he is on his way out. He may want out anyway.

[Joemailman]

I’m not doing the dance with Rodgers again this offseason. Either he gets on board early or he is on his way out. He may want out anyway.

He has said he wants to have a decision made before the free agency period. I don't think he'll drag it out.

[kcpackman]

The idiocy of this thread is that nobody in their right mind among the Packer brass would WANT to get rid of Rodgers - which would mean the team going in the shitter for the foreseeable future. I've been hot and cold regarding the good sense of Gutekunst, but I'm pretty sure he ain't that stupid.

Oh - I am not so sure about this. I mean - this is what everyone said about Favre. The fans could not believe TT eventually traded him - which turned out to be the right decision, for the long term success of the team.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I want Derek Carr + some draft picks personally. Derek Carr is good enough to give us a chance while saving us some cap room.

[wthigoot]

I want Derek Carr + some draft picks personally. Derek Carr is good enough to give us a chance while saving us some cap room.

I think Chucky would have been all in on a trade like this. Now that he has been canceled, and Mayock fired, it's hard to tell if they would think about it. It could be a decent deal overall.

[Teamcheez1]

Rodgers would be all in on this given the opportunity to hang out with Wayne Newton.

[call_me_ishmael]

you are right and I never thought of it this way. But I don' think Rodgers will want to stay here and suck. I think he'll need to be very confident we're keeping Adams and will continue to compete. If he stays he'll restructure.

But he can make it hard to deal him for sure

We can win a Super Bowl with lesser talent than this year (sad to say that) if our QB play is great.

Talent this year was overrated. 29 is wildly overrated and I will be quite happy to have someone overpay him and we collect the nice comp pick. Same with the MLB although much lesser. They will almost certainly be better next year on the line with 72 and 69 healthy.

They pretty much had the B team out there aside from Jones and Adams. I agree Rodgers made poor choices but it reminds me a bit of 15 in the super bowl last year. He was missing his two all-pro linemen and they benched the wrong guy against one of the tier DL in the league. Took him totally out of his game and the rest of the JV squad couldn’t overcome.

[call_me_ishmael]

I really think they can keep AROD, Adams and Jaire and maybe Tonyan on a 1 or 2 year deal.

Will have to cut Z and some others.

I think they will likely move on from Z. I’m okay with that. Preston will redo his contract to stay I believe. The cap positioning isn’t nearly as bad as folks want us to believe. I am shocked teams like the chiefs have as much alleged space as they do. If they resign Rodgers for three years then they don’t have a cap problem and can bring back everyone except for like Z I am sure. It’s going to be fine, I really believe that. There good young players are on rookie deals.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Talent this year was overrated. 29 is wildly overrated and I will be quite happy to have someone overpay him and we collect the nice comp pick. Same with the MLB although much lesser. They will almost certainly be better next year on the line with 72 and 69 healthy.

They pretty much had the B team out there aside from Jones and Adams. I agree Rodgers made poor choices but it reminds me a bit of 15 in the super bowl last year. He was missing his two all-pro linemen and they benched the wrong guy against one of the tier DL in the league. Took him totally out of his game and the rest of the JV squad couldn’t overcome.

29 wasn’t overrated, we can’t get a comp pick for him, but he’s unlikely to play as well as he did this year. MLB was REALLY good, and I’m not convinced he wouldn’t continue his play well in this defense. I think the Packers will try to resign him. No need for 29 with Jaire and Stokes on the boundary. You don’t put guys like Stokes and Jaire at SCB, and I don’t think 29 can play slot.

[call_me_ishmael]

29 wasn’t overrated, we can’t get a comp pick for him, but he’s unlikely to play as well as he did this year. MLB was REALLY good, and I’m not convinced he wouldn’t continue his play well in this defense. I think the Packers will try to resign him. No need for 29 with Jaire and Stokes on the boundary. You don’t put guys like Stokes and Jaire at SCB, and I don’t think 29 can play slot.

You really think 29 played like an all-pro here? Picks aside I'm not sure I agree with that. I don't have numbers to support that, just a feel. Bummer they can't get the comp pick.

I hope the resign the MLB too. We shall see. Do you think Aaron is back?

[HarveyWallbangers]

29 (Rasul) wasn’t All- Pro or Pro Bowler.

[run pMc]

29 (Rasul) wasn’t All- Pro or Pro Bowler.

He's listed as a Pro-Bowl alternate, and was a big lift to the secondary. They lose to ARI for sure without him, and probably the LAR game too. He has limitations but he's better than Kevin King who got a mind boggling $5M contract.

[run pMc]

I'd prefer they keep Rodgers, but not extend him too far out. Would help the cap and possibly prevent a rebuild while keeping an MVP QB on the team.

I wouldn't trade him unless he was really dug in, and then it would have to be to an AFC team like DEN who has picks and players to send back. He can't retire and then unretire a year later, as his rights would stay with GB, correct?
I think this team wins 5 or 6 games with Jordan Love as the starting QB.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

I'd prefer they keep Rodgers, but not extend him too far out. Would help the cap and possibly prevent a rebuild while keeping an MVP QB on the team.

I wouldn't trade him unless he was really dug in, and then it would have to be to an AFC team like DEN who has picks and players to send back. He can't retire and then unretire a year later, as his rights would stay with GB, correct?
I think this team wins 5 or 6 games with Jordan Love as the starting QB.

Denver seems the hottest to get Rodgers, Peter King floated a trade where Denver traded Jeudy, 2 1st round, and a fourth round for Rodgers. I mean, 3 1st rounds in 2022 seems like a hell of a way to start the next super bowl run...

[Sparkey]

Get home field advantage with Rodgers and it's 50/50 they win any game.

The only year Rodgers won a SB they were a wildcard and played on the road for every game.

Rodgers record at home, in the playoffs is average.

So yeah, keep him, weaken the defense and then everyone can complain next year when the same shit happens.

Rodgers looked like he was running in sand and his passes were piss poor in accuracy. He's not getting better.

[Bossman641]

I wonder what Lafleur's true feelings on Rodgers are. I don't doubt he realizes how much easier Rodgers makes it for him, but we've been running this quasi Rodgers/LaFleur offense and I can't help but feel LaFleur wants to implement the whole thing. The offense has these funk games where everything feels so difficult, the pre-snap feels so static, and we see very little in the way of schemed open throws to the middle of the field. Is that Rodgers? Does LaFleur install plays Rodgers is more comfortable with, from the old offense?

I'm in such a funk. You watch the Bills or Chiefs and they attack the middle of them field so much. Even Jimmy, for as shitty as he played, had some easy throws down the middle.

[call_me_ishmael]

Denver seems the hottest to get Rodgers, Peter King floated a trade where Denver traded Jeudy, 2 1st round, and a fourth round for Rodgers. I mean, 3 1st rounds in 2022 seems like a hell of a way to start the next super bowl run...

Not so sure I agree in this garbage draft.

[call_me_ishmael]

I wonder what Lafleur's true feelings on Rodgers are. I don't doubt he realizes how much easier Rodgers makes it for him, but we've been running this quasi Rodgers/LaFleur offense and I can't help but feel LaFleur wants to implement the whole thing. The offense has these funk games where everything feels so difficult, the pre-snap feels so static, and we see very little in the way of schemed open throws to the middle of the field. Is that Rodgers? Does LaFleur install plays Rodgers is more comfortable with, from the old offense?

I'm in such a funk. You watch the Bills or Chiefs and they attack the middle of them field so much. Even Jimmy, for as shitty as he played, had some easy throws down the middle.

It is shocking how difference there offenses look. Of course, they have much better players at skill positions and certainly at least KC prioritizes speed over everything. I would be curious to know how much the Packers use motion, etc. It seems to me that they play a modern offense most of the time. It did feel like there wasn't enough motion and crossing on Saturday, though.

Something that jumped out was how the Niners literally run their players wild in the backfield before the snap to get the head of steam. They seem schematically ahead of everyone else.

[Bossman641]

It is shocking how difference there offenses look. Of course, they have much better players at skill positions and certainly at least KC prioritizes speed over everything. I would be curious to know how much the Packers use motion, etc. It seems to me that they play a modern offense most of the time. It did feel like there wasn't enough motion and crossing on Saturday, though.

Something that jumped out was how the Niners literally run their players wild in the backfield before the snap to get the head of steam. They seem schematically ahead of everyone else.

The lack of a TE threat is killing us, but I can't figure out what our offense is. Early on in LaFleur tenure it felt like we lined up in a lot more varied formations and used condensed sets more often. This year has felt more like the MM years with 3 and 4 wr sets. Is that MLF adjusting to the personnel strengths?

[Joemailman]

The lack of a TE threat is killing us, but I can't figure out what our offense is. Early on in LaFleur tenure it felt like we lined up in a lot more varied formations and used condensed sets more often. This year has felt more like the MM years with 3 and 4 wr sets. Is that MLF adjusting to the personnel strengths?

There is no doubt LaFleur has taken a lot of the motion/sweep stuff out of the offense to accomodate Rodgers changing things pre-snap. That's why people shouldn't judge Love too harshly based on what they've seen so far. When Rodgers is replaced by Love, the motion stuff will be back. You'll likely see Love running RPO's. Love was drafted to run MLF's version of the Shanahan offense, not this hybrid offense they've been running with Rodgers.

[th87]

Rodgers feels so comfortable in year 3 of the offense. Yeah he sure showed it when it mattered.

[King Friday]

There is no doubt LaFleur has taken a lot of the motion/sweep stuff out of the offense to accomodate Rodgers changing things pre-snap. That's why people shouldn't judge Love too harshly based on what they've seen so far. When Rodgers is replaced by Love, the motion stuff will be back. You'll likely see Love running RPO's. Love was drafted to run MLF's version of the Shanahan offense, not this hybrid offense they've been running with Rodgers.

This is very spot on. Love was never drafted to do what Rodgers does. The system run by Green Bay will change significantly when Love takes over. A similar change is likely to happen in Pittsburgh, where I assume Tomlin will seek for a more mobile option at QB. Having a QB that can run and pass is the ultimate threat right now. Josh Allen will never be the QB that Aaron Rodgers is...but he could possibly wind up with more SB wins.

[MadScientist]

The cold hard facts are that the Packers could keep most, but not all, of the key players from this year. But that will leave them with almost no room to improve, save low draft picks, and rookies are a crap shoot and rarely game changers. So the odds of the Packers keeping things together and actually being better are very slim. I'm not sure there is a path to the Owl without blowing things up, because this team isn't good enough. If Rodgers sees it layed out like this he'll either retire or demand a trade.a

[Bossman641]

Rodgers has to know there's no way he can demand a high $ deal AND reload the team. He may be hardheaded but he's not ignorant of the realities of a salary cap.

[call_me_ishmael]

The cold hard facts are that the Packers could keep most, but not all, of the key players from this year. But that will leave them with almost no room to improve, save low draft picks, and rookies are a crap shoot and rarely game changers. So the odds of the Packers keeping things together and actually being better are very slim. I'm not sure there is a path to the Owl without blowing things up, because this team isn't good enough. If Rodgers sees it layed out like this he'll either retire or demand a trade.a

I think I think the opposite and believe it's possible they'd be better next year if they keep the band together. Their best players were hurt this year. What are the odds that key plays like Bak, Jenkins and Alexander are hurt next year? Slim IMO. Other than Rodgers they aren't an old team so I'm not sure I'd expect much age related regression.

Personally, I'd probably try to run it back for another year or two and go from there. Plus when the bill comes due they will _really_ suck which is great for a quick rebuild instead of half sucking.

[call_me_ishmael]

Rodgers has to know there's no way he can demand a high $ deal AND reload the team. He may be hardheaded but he's not ignorant of the realities of a salary cap.


Not sure I agree. He could easily say "I'll take 3M off the cap per year in retirement over 10 years" or something w/ void years. Not hazardous to any specific year since 3M is not that much, and also low risk for him since he gets money up front. I am surprised more teams don't do this.

[HarveyWallbangers]

He's listed as a Pro-Bowl alternate, and was a big lift to the secondary. They lose to ARI for sure without him, and probably the LAR game too. He has limitations but he's better than Kevin King who got a mind boggling $5M contract.

Somebody said 29 was overrated because he was named All-Pro, but he wasn’t. There are almost as many alternates named to the PB as guys that make the team nowadays. AP is a lot different than PB. Douglas probably deserved his PB alternate nod.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Not sure I agree. He could easily say "I'll take 3M off the cap per year in retirement over 10 years" or something w/ void years. Not hazardous to any specific year since 3M is not that much, and also low risk for him since he gets money up front. I am surprised more teams don't do this.

You can only go out to the 5th year with void years.

[George Cumby]

Rodgers has to know there's no way he can demand a high $ deal AND reload the team. He may be hardheaded but he's not ignorant of the realities of a salary cap.

But he is apparently blinded by his ego, so it's a push whether or not he plays ball with Gute.

[texaspackerbacker]

Rodgers has to know there's no way he can demand a high $ deal AND reload the team. He may be hardheaded but he's not ignorant of the realities of a salary cap.

Are you really that stupid? YOU don't know the "realities of a salary cap". Of course a long term extension of Rodgers would greatly lessen the cap hit, not raise it. Ditto that for Adams, Campbell, Douglas, Tonyan, MVS, etc. - basically anybody worth keeping long term.

[Bossman641]

Are you really that stupid? YOU don't know the "realities of a salary cap". Of course a long term extension of Rodgers would greatly lessen the cap hit, not raise it. Ditto that for Adams, Campbell, Douglas, Tonyan, MVS, etc. - basically anybody worth keeping long term.

With the exception of Rodgers, none of the players you mentioned have an existing contract for next year. Signing any of them only exacerbates next year's cap issues. You may want to revisit who the stupid one is.

[George Cumby]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

[Fritz]

This is very spot on. Love was never drafted to do what Rodgers does. The system run by Green Bay will change significantly when Love takes over. A similar change is likely to happen in Pittsburgh, where I assume Tomlin will seek for a more mobile option at QB. Having a QB that can run and pass is the ultimate threat right now. Josh Allen will never be the QB that Aaron Rodgers is...but he could possibly wind up with more SB wins.

I notice also that MLF seems to have abandoned the outside zone run - the vast majority of GB's runs are up the middle. Or at least in that game.

[call_me_ishmael]

With the exception of Rodgers, none of the players you mentioned have an existing contract for next year. Signing any of them only exacerbates next year's cap issues. You may want to revisit who the stupid one is.

True with those listed, but the big elephant in the room is the 48M on Aaron's charge. They could easily get that to 20 without issue so saving 28M. I think we all agree Z is gone.

Adam will ultimately resign for less money I believe. If he won't, then I do tend to agree it's time to move on from Aaron. Void years will be helpful here.

No reason they can't dramatically lower cap charge of Rodgers, Jaire, Prestone, Amos, Turner, etc. Let's assume they don't intend to rebuild. Also let's assume they don't have cap issues. I don't think any of those players would be going anywhere and would be re-upped.

Cobb will be like 2M. It's a non-issue. I believe Dynamic Dean Lowry will probably be cut.

To me, it's more a question of what they want to do vs what they can do. If they want to rebuild, all bets are off and I'd all the assets except for Jaire and Elgton.

They aren't going to be able to bring everyone back, but they can bring most people back.


Aaron Rodgers - Cap hit of 46.8 million. Packers save 20 million by trading him.

Zadarius Smith - Cap hit of 28.1 million. Packers save 15.7 million by cutting or trading him.

Preston Smith - Cap hit of 19.8 million. Packers save 12.5 million by cutting or trading him.

Billy Turner - Cap hit of 9.2 million. Packers save 3.4 million by cutting or trading him.

Randall Cobb - Cap hit of 9.6 million. Packers save 6.8 million by cutting or trading him.

Dean Lowry - Cap hit 7.9 million. Packers save 3.9 million by cutting or trading him.

[call_me_ishmael]

I notice also that MLF seems to have abandoned the outside zone run - the vast majority of GB's runs are up the middle. Or at least in that game.

I remember two years ago this was discussed quite a bit by the beat writers and it was stated that it was because Aaron Jones is better inside.

[texaspackerbacker]

With the exception of Rodgers, none of the players you mentioned have an existing contract for next year. Signing any of them only exacerbates next year's cap issues. You may want to revisit who the stupid one is.

I say again, are you really that stupid/ignorant about how the cap works?

[Bossman641]

I say again, are you really that stupid/ignorant about how the cap works?

Do you? You suggest extending guys who don't even have contracts somehow lowers their cap number.

[bobblehead]

Rodgers has to know there's no way he can demand a high $ deal AND reload the team. He may be hardheaded but he's not ignorant of the realities of a salary cap.

Rodgers doesn't care if they kick it down the road until he retires though. Its a tough spot if the team actually wants to move on since I am convinced Rodgers doesn't and never did want to leave. However with his stunt last year he is in a tight spot if they do want to because if they try to trade him and he resists, he is the asshole now. Doesn't change the fact that if he is willing to be the asshole, they are in a bad spot. It ruins compensation if he doesn't want to go, and it kills the cap if they can't restructure him to a friendly deal.

[bobblehead]

Do you? You suggest extending guys who don't even have contracts somehow lowers their cap number.

Right now, just to tag Adams they have to clear like 18 million off the books....in addition to the 40 million or whatever they are over the cap. Tex thinks that none of this exists. And while its true you can kick it down the road and you can finnagle some details, you can't just ignore it.

There will be a bloodbath in GB, which is why I bring up this question. Due to the cap situation, trading Rodgers for some serious draft capital and making the moves necessary to tag and trade Adams means a 1 year rebuild is necessary. Bak is another issue to deal with entirely that factors into this. Is he shot? Is he going to return next year and be a stud again? If he is done, then you can cut him and eat it in a rebuild year, but they have to make that decision very soon.

GMs and coaches always think they are one guy away. That can be true and not true at the same time as luck and injuries play into it. My hunch is they will try to win again next year to the detriment of the long term. We get 4 more years of Rodgers, but due to the contracts Gutes signed in his first year that everyone applauded (Z, Preston, Amos, Turner) the next 4 won't be as competitive as the last 3. That doesn't mean we can't get an Owl, but it would take luck and Rodgers outperforming his last few playoff games. Since there is a chance and Gutes history is to go for it, I still think ultimately we bring him back. We lose both OLB. We lose all the smaller peices like Tonyon. We sign Adams to a 3 year MONSTER deal which means we likely lose a few other guys in 2023 as that will take a year to hit the cap full on. The one year and 2 year ramifications will weaken the roster overall. Ok, I'm rambling time to stop.

[ThunderDan]

Do you? You suggest extending guys who don't even have contracts somehow lowers their cap number.

It's Tex the fascist, child molester so take it with a grain of sand.

Tex doesn't understand if someone signs a new contract who isn't under contract it adds to the salary cap. Even if it is structured at $45 million and some how hits $5, $10, $30 a year. It still eats up $5 million the first year on a $45 million contract.

[King Friday]

I say again, are you really that stupid/ignorant about how the cap works?

Let me do math for you Tex

If someone has an expiring contract, they currently count $0 against next year's cap. That means they aren't even part of the $40M+ gap yet.

If you sign Adams to a bargain basement $10M per year contract, our cap situation just got $10M worse, not better.

[run pMc]

Not so sure I agree in this garbage draft.

True. I'd want a 1st rounder in a future draft in addition to the upcoming one; this is a bad draft for QB and they'll want an insurance pick in case the Jordan Love Experiment combusts horribly.
Getting Jeudy would be ok only bc if you're losing Rodgers you're losing Adams. People like him, scouts like him, but Jeudy has 90 catches in 26 games (3.5 per), not exactly dominating stuff. You're banking on him improving a lot; you hope to be right -- those are "1st two seasons of Davante" numbers.

[run pMc]

Adams wants DeAndre Hopkins money. As good as Adams is, I have a hard time believing they'll pay that without doing some funny money.
Re: that funny money, you can only push so much out so far and then you have the New Orleans Saints cap situation.

GB is nearing that now, and thus a bloodletting will be needed. I honestly think both Smiths are gone, which gets them a chunk of the way back. I think they will try to work something out with Rodgers -- he's should be getting MVP#4, and you don't let those guys walk -- but if it happens then it opens up possibilities, mostly on defense I think. Jaire will get extended which brings his number down, but it opens up the likelihood of keeping Campbell or Douglas. On offense, they still have Adams, MVS, Cobb, Tonyan leaving, so that's an issue.

I wonder about redoing Bahk's deal; he's done nothing but sit since he signed and they could play Njiman (or Turner or Jenkins or possibly a draft pick) out there.

And yes, expiring deals do not count towards the cap, and you can't trade those players either lol.

[texaspackerbacker]

Some dumbasses really can't seem to comprehend, you can sign somebody for a humongous contract. and end up with a rock bottom cap number for at least a year or two.

Clearly, Z. Smith will be gone, and that will be apparently saves $20+ million by itself on the cap. I absolutely don't anticipate much of anybody else of substance being gone, though.

Talk about Rodgers being gone and the team still being good is just plain stupid.

[Bretsky]

Some dumbasses really can't seem to comprehend, you can sign somebody for a humongous contract. and end up with a rock bottom cap number for at least a year or two.

Clearly, Z. Smith will be gone, and that will be apparently saves $20+ million by itself on the cap. I absolutely don't anticipate much of anybody else of substance being gone, though.

Talk about Rodgers being gone and the team still being good is just plain stupid.




Save this one too; they are going to lose a lot more players than Z

[texaspackerbacker]

Yeah, save it. For the record, though, I did say anybody worth keeping. I'm hoping myself that Crosby retires, for example, and we pick up a 5th rounder like the Bengal guy. Out of a 53 man roster, of course we will turn over a few, but nobody of substance.

[RashanGary]

It sounds like the Packers really want Rodgers back. I think they’re gonna do everything they can to keep most of the band together. I’m not exactly sure what that will look like but with Gary playing so well I’m sure we’ll be without one of the smiths.

Let’s hope for a good draft and some development from the younger guys.

[Fritz]

So much of the postseason seems to depend on a variety of factors, not the least of which is luck. But this is what, the third year in a row that the Packers have been bounced, and the last two when they supposedly were favorites?

Last year's loss, and even moreso this year's loss, do not seem like the result of some luck. They demonstrated that they had superb talent in racking up those regular season records, but they didn't get beat in the playoffs the last three years because they got some bad breaks. They just have played poorly. So do we really want to try to wind up that doll again and have another season like this past one? And even that is doubtful.

Can you get this team, with its cap situation and as currently constructed, over the hump? This season's team was probably the best I've seen in many years. Yet they still looked like the same ol' same ol' thing in the playoffs. Two years ago it was the defense. Last year it was . . . ? This year it was the special teams. But in at least the last two years, your MVP QB did nothing - nothing - in the last quarter to get his team over the hump. Nothing.

[Fritz]

So much of the postseason seems to depend on a variety of factors, not the least of which is luck. But this is what, the third year in a row that the Packers have been bounced, and the last two when they supposedly were favorites?

Last year's loss, and even moreso this year's loss, do not seem like the result of some luck. They demonstrated that they had superb talent in racking up those regular season records, but they didn't get beat in the playoffs the last three years because they got some bad breaks. They just have played poorly. So do we really want to try to wind up that doll again and have another season like this past one? And even that is doubtful.

Can you get this team, with its cap situation and as currently constructed, over the hump? This season's team was probably the best I've seen in many years. Yet they still looked like the same ol' same ol' thing in the playoffs. Two years ago it was the defense. Last year it was . . . ? This year it was the special teams. But in at least the last two years, your MVP QB did nothing - nothing - in the last quarter to get his team over the hump. Nothing.

I just looked it up - Rodgers's career passer rating in the playoffs is 100.5.

[George Cumby]

So much of the postseason seems to depend on a variety of factors, not the least of which is luck. But this is what, the third year in a row that the Packers have been bounced, and the last two when they supposedly were favorites?


Can you get this team, with its cap situation and as currently constructed, over the hump? This season's team was probably the best I've seen in many years. Yet they still looked like the same ol' same ol' thing in the playoffs. Two years ago it was the defense. Last year it was . . . ? This year it was the special teams. But in at least the last two years, your MVP QB did nothing - nothing - in the last quarter to get his team over the hump. Nothing.


IMO both MLF and Rodgers are on the hook for this underperformance in the biggest games.

For whatever reason, they CONSISTENTLY fail when the bright lights are on and neither seems to be improving in that regard.

Again, I don't claim to know what the correct course of action is, but they seem to keep repeating the same mistakes..........

[Joemailman]

This one feel different to me because I think the Packers lost to an inferior team. Packers were not as good as the 49ers in 2019. Period. Packers could have played the 49ers 5 times in 2019 and I think they would have lost all 5. I thought they had a good chance against the Bucs in 2020, but it's not like that was a real upset. Bucs were very good, and with the stands mostly empty, there wasn't that much of a home field advantage. But they had everything going for them this time and why they didn't get it done is a bigger question this year than it was the previous 2 years.

[George Cumby]

Agree on the '19 Niners. The Packers got straight up bullied.

[texaspackerbacker]

It sounds like the Packers really want Rodgers back. I think they’re gonna do everything they can to keep most of the band together. I’m not exactly sure what that will look like but with Gary playing so well I’m sure we’ll be without one of the smiths.

Let’s hope for a good draft and some development from the younger guys.

Yes, it does sound like that, LaFleur anyway. And as I have said over and over, we certainly DO have the capability to keep him AND anybody else worth keeping - when the media idiot talked about rebuilding, LaFleur shot that idea down big time. There's a slim slim chance Rodgers is burnt out and seriously wants to retire, but I really doubt that.

Bretsky, I'll give you another post to save hahahaha. Mark my words, Rodgers, Adams, Tonyan, MVS, and Jaire will be back for sure, and a strong probably for Campbell and Douglas, and a weak probably for Cobb at reduced pay and P. Smith. Who does that leave that won't be back? Z. Smith, probably Mercilus, and I hope Crosby.

As for those team comparisons, true, the Niners weren't as good as in '19, mainly because of their running game being worse, but they were better than their record this year showed. I wouldn't rule out this being another season where the team that knocks the Packers out goes all the way and wins the SB.

[Teamcheez1]

Keeping Rodgers would certainly make this team competitive for next year. I just don’t have any reason to believe our season will end any differently if he stays. With Love, I have no expectation of making the playoffs; with Rodgers, I have no expectation of winning in the playoffs.

[George Cumby]

Keeping Rodgers would certainly make this team competitive for next year. I just don’t have any reason to believe our season will end any differently if he stays. With Love, I have no expectation of making the playoffs; with Rodgers, I have no expectation of winning in the playoffs.

Between Scylla and Charybdis.

[call_me_ishmael]

I kinda feel like we're underrating the niners. They're clearly a very good team that underperformed for much of the season.

They have a lot of talent. The best MLB in the league, arguably one of the top 3 DLs in the league, arguably one of the best LTs in the league, etc. They have a great innovative coach too.

I'm not so sure blowing it up is the right answer right now. But they do need to get better, get more weapons on the perimeter, and run a more innovative offense in my opinion.

[texaspackerbacker]

Keeping Rodgers would certainly make this team competitive for next year. I just don’t have any reason to believe our season will end any differently if he stays. With Love, I have no expectation of making the playoffs; with Rodgers, I have no expectation of winning in the playoffs.

Two things about that: 1. WHY would you think like that - no hope, etc. in the playoffs? Freak things happened, etc., but the best team in the NFL - which I think even ya'all haters would agree the Packers are with Rodgers - ought to be expected to win in the playoffs, same as they win most of the time otherwise. 2. The season ended with 13 wins and 5 losses, 1 of those without Rodgers, and 1 in a meaningless game. That to me anyway, is pretty damn good - 13 weeks with a happy satisfying conclusion compared to 5 without. I know for a lot of people, it's SB or nothing, and I'm not totally discounting that point of view, but for me, now two or three days out from the shock and disappointment of that loss, I'm fairly happy with the situation.

My dread was that maybe we win the SB and don't retain Rodgers. THAT would be the pits - a dark and rotten future, etc. Of course, if ya'all negativists turn out to be right, maybe we lose Rodgers and flounder even without winning the SB. My point, though, is that given a choice, win the SB OR retain Rodgers for a lot more years and continue winning, I absolutely will take the latter.

[RashanGary]

The Bengals are doing ok without Rodgers. So are the Chiefs, Bills, Buccaneers, 49ers, Rams and Titans.

You all make it sound like finding a franchise QB is a 1 in a 100 probability. It’s more like 1 in 6.

Maybe Love is the guy. Maybe we’d have to lose for a few years and draft one. But there are a lot of good quarterbacks. Rodgers isn’t the only one.

[texaspackerbacker]

Well, just maybe having Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, Brady, and Stafford have a lot to do with that. Rodgers isn't the only one, but he IS the GOAT and even to those in denial of that, he's the absolute best right now. And even Garropalo/Lance and Tannehill (and just about every other team's QB situation) is way better than Jordan Love.

Do you seriously want to "lose for a few years and draft" a possible franchise QB - or as you said, have a "1 in 6" chance of hitting on one? That IMO is what the loser franchises do. Actually, the Packers sort of had the right idea in drafting Love - find your franchise QB a few years before you need him, and then have a smooth transition with no stupid rebuilding period. They just didn't handle it very well - started too early, didn't involve Rodgers in the process, and probably chose the wrong guy.

[Joemailman]

Keeping Rodgers would certainly make this team competitive for next year. I just don’t have any reason to believe our season will end any differently if he stays. With Love, I have no expectation of making the playoffs; with Rodgers, I have no expectation of winning in the playoffs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAAKPJEq1Ew

[run pMc]

So Rodgers said he doesn't want to be part of a rebuild. Do you think, given the cap situation, he's telegraphing that he wants out?
Also, if he wants to stay, would he take a discount a la Tom Brady to provide cap relief and sign players to avoid a rebuild?

[run pMc]

Some dumbasses really can't seem to comprehend, you can sign somebody for a humongous contract. and end up with a rock bottom cap number for at least a year or two.

Clearly, Z. Smith will be gone, and that will be apparently saves $20+ million by itself on the cap. I absolutely don't anticipate much of anybody else of substance being gone, though.

Talk about Rodgers being gone and the team still being good is just plain stupid.

While you can sign a player to a big contract but keep the cap numbers modest, they would still need to make a lot of room to make that happen because IT'S A BIG CONTRACT. They are over the cap by $40M. They have to cut that much salary before they can sign anyone. You're going to have to pay a bonus out to anyone to get them to sign, which can be prorated but still counts. No agent is going to let their client wait until Year 2 or 3 of a contract to get a roster bonus or guaranteed money -- they want it right away before they risk getting injured or cut.

I think you are underestimating the cap situation, and the losses to the roster necessary to fit under the cap. I do agree that the team is worse without Rodgers.

[texaspackerbacker]

Do I have to go through all of this in detail again? At least $20M of that 40 is Z. Smith. And I think somebody said Rodgers cap number itself is something like $26M (or was it $46M?). Extending him should get that down to the low teens I would think. On and on from there - Adams stretched out with a not too bad hit, Tonyan, MVS, Campbell, Douglas the same. And that is without even considering the probable very large cap increase.

This is not rocket science, even if some media dumbasses can't comprehend it or would like to see the Packers dragged down.

[King Friday]

Tex... There is no "stretching" out of of Adams deal. Every single dollar of it will be in addition to the gap we already have. You can't create any cap savings by signing Adams. He will likely count at least $10M in additional money to the cap in 2022 even with a favorable deal because he will want a big signing bonus.

[NewsBruin]

EDIT: Unnecessary snark. I want the Packers to re-sign everyone worth keeping, but I don't think it's possible at their current rates, and definitely not at matching rates.

[MadtownPacker]

Fuck Rodgers when has he really ever won in the cold? It’s time to #MoveOnPackers cuz he can’t win at Lambeau when it counts.

[kcpackman]

But he is apparently blinded by his ego, so it's a push whether or not he plays ball with Gute.

I would argue Rodgers is blinded by his ego, but that is just my opinion. I believe this statement - which come from military doctrine applies to him:

Hubris: An overestimation of one’s ability, and, potentially most significant, an ignorance of history’s lessons, preceded many inglorious failures.

[George Cumby]

Hubris, indeed.

[kcpackman]

Hubris, indeed.

And just to be clear, I am not auguring that Rodgers in not a great QB - he is. What I am auguring is that his hubris has prevented him from taking that next step.

[run pMc]

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2022/1/25/22901561/green-bay-packers-sign-10-players-futures-contracts-bring-in-3-for-tryouts-kurt-benkert-danny-etling

the team is about $40 million over the cap as it stands today, without WR Davante Adams, WR Marquez Valdes-Scantling, WR Equanimeous St. Brown, TE Robert Tonyan, OL Lucas Patrick, OL Dennis Kelly, DL Tyler Lancaster, LB De’Vondre Campbell, LB Oren Burks, CB Rasul Douglas, CB Chandon Sullivan, CB Kevin King or P Corey Bojorquez under contract. Odds are that the Packers are going to rank among the highest in the league in players on futures deals and/or undrafted free agents who end up sticking on the 53-man roster next year.


DeAndre Hopkins signed a 2 year, $54,500,000 contract with the Arizona Cardinals, including a $27,500,000 signing bonus, $60,050,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $27,250,000. In 2022, Hopkins will earn a base salary of $6,650,000 and a roster bonus of $10,650,000, while carrying a cap hit of $25,050,000 and a dead cap value of $29,900,000.

Let's say Davante signs for the exact contract DeAndre Hopkins did; that would be $25M of cap space they'd need to find in addition to the $40M they will already need to free up. Yes, you could maybe add void years and a longer contract (and longer contract = more money for a player approaching 30) but it won't bring that cap hit down by much -- maybe they get the number down to $15M... so you have to find $55M ($40M + 15M) in cap space magically from your roster. You are gutting your roster to make that move.

You can extend Rodgers, but I'd guess he's looking for something in the neighborhood of 3yr/$120M. He already has a 2023 void year on his current contract; I assume an extension would modify that. Either way I'm not sure you can bring his cap number below $30M without him having void years until he's 50. If you extend him 3 more years I don't think he plays to the end of that contract, and you'd be paying for it for years with a lot of dead cap space you can't use to sign/keep players.

Yes, the FO and HC want Rodgers and Adams to stay, but the reality is they might not be able to afford them.

They *might* be able to convert some of his base salary to a bonus and push it out across void years to lower the cap; that, plus cutting Cobb and both Smiths would get you room, but I don't think it's enough for Adams. Maybe cut Lowry too? You're really hurting your Front 7 on D and creating a lot of holes to fill. Fun fact: Amari Rodgers and Juwann Winfree are the only WRs under contract for next season. (They'll get Lazard back, he's an RFA)

[texaspackerbacker]

Tex... There is no "stretching" out of of Adams deal. Every single dollar of it will be in addition to the gap we already have. You can't create any cap savings by signing Adams. He will likely count at least $10M in additional money to the cap in 2022 even with a favorable deal because he will want a big signing bonus.

Yes, no disagreement there. When I said stretching out, I meant a new contract with maybe $10M against the cap even though it might average over $20M per year. I hope you understand how that works. In one or the other of these threads, I talked about that supposed $40M problem with the cap and how it really isn't a problem. If you disagree with that, whatever. You can counter that if you disagree.

I read run pMc's post after typing this. I'm thinking we sign Adams for 5 years - stretching it out. Make it about $135 million for five years, close to if not more than the Hopkins amount. Make $45M bonus. Make the first year salary just $1 million - he just got $45 million bonus handed to him after all. That gives you a cap number of $10 million. Spread out the other $89 over the next four years, fairly small in the second year and heavily back loaded. After about 3 or 4 years, if Adams is still looking great, extend and restructure him so the deal doesn't hurt the cap then - more stretching. If he's fading, you can cut him after 4 or maybe even 3 years without too much dead money ($9 M per remaining year).

[Bretsky]

Yes, no disagreement there. When I said stretching out, I meant a new contract with maybe $10M against the cap even though it might average over $20M per year. I hope you understand how that works. In one or the other of these threads, I talked about that supposed $40M problem with the cap and how it really isn't a problem. If you disagree with that, whatever. You can counter that if you disagree.



The toughest part here is ADAMS is not taking any structure at 20MIL/Year. He's be signed already if he'd take that.

And I have a bad feeling because she sides sound far apart, they are going to franchise him. Seems like a no brainer. Even if they are not keeping him, you franchise, him and trade him

But to franchise him holy crap they have $$$$ to clear from the cap

[Bretsky]

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2022/1/25/22901561/green-bay-packers-sign-10-players-futures-contracts-bring-in-3-for-tryouts-kurt-benkert-danny-etling



DeAndre Hopkins signed a 2 year, $54,500,000 contract with the Arizona Cardinals, including a $27,500,000 signing bonus, $60,050,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $27,250,000. In 2022, Hopkins will earn a base salary of $6,650,000 and a roster bonus of $10,650,000, while carrying a cap hit of $25,050,000 and a dead cap value of $29,900,000.

Let's say Davante signs for the exact contract DeAndre Hopkins did; that would be $25M of cap space they'd need to find in addition to the $40M they will already need to free up. Yes, you could maybe add void years and a longer contract (and longer contract = more money for a player approaching 30) but it won't bring that cap hit down by much -- maybe they get the number down to $15M... so you have to find $55M ($40M + 15M) in cap space magically from your roster. You are gutting your roster to make that move.

You can extend Rodgers, but I'd guess he's looking for something in the neighborhood of 3yr/$120M. He already has a 2023 void year on his current contract; I assume an extension would modify that. Either way I'm not sure you can bring his cap number below $30M without him having void years until he's 50. If you extend him 3 more years I don't think he plays to the end of that contract, and you'd be paying for it for years with a lot of dead cap space you can't use to sign/keep players.

Yes, the FO and HC want Rodgers and Adams to stay, but the reality is they might not be able to afford them.

They *might* be able to convert some of his base salary to a bonus and push it out across void years to lower the cap; that, plus cutting Cobb and both Smiths would get you room, but I don't think it's enough for Adams. Maybe cut Lowry too? You're really hurting your Front 7 on D and creating a lot of holes to fill. Fun fact: Amari Rodgers and Juwann Winfree are the only WRs under contract for next season. (They'll get Lazard back, he's an RFA)



Rodgers has a shit ton of money and his furture wife does as well I worry he wants it both ways. Wants the 3yr 40/year but unless we add a bunch of bogus years onto the deal with a signing bonus that would destroy out cap. Give him that deal and it decimates our cap and/or really hurts us down the road

Brady won a Shit ton of SB's taking team friendly deals. I'm not saying overpaid/underpaid....but deals were team friendly. Not sure Rodgers has that in him

[bobblehead]

It sounds like the Packers really want Rodgers back. I think they’re gonna do everything they can to keep most of the band together. I’m not exactly sure what that will look like but with Gary playing so well I’m sure we’ll be without one of the smiths.

Let’s hope for a good draft and some development from the younger guys.

We don't know what they are thinking as they would say they really want him back regardless. Saying, yea, we gotta trade him tanks offers from other teams.

[bobblehead]

Fuck Rodgers when has he really ever won in the cold? It’s time to #MoveOnPackers cuz he can’t win at Lambeau when it counts.

While I am not hating on Rodgers, I agree with the premise that he hasn't gotten us to the Owl in over a decade. Not always his fault, but this loss is squarely on his shoulders. Due to the cap situation I clearly think a trade and cap reset season is the teams best move.

[Thirteen Below]

The toughest part here is ADAMS is not taking any structure at 20MIL/Year. He's be signed already if he'd take that.

And I have a bad feeling because she sides sound far apart, they are going to franchise him. Seems like a no brainer. Even if they are not keeping him, you franchise, him and trade him

But to franchise him holy crap they have $$$$ to clear from the cap

Yeah, and that franchise tag for Adams in 2022 will be roughly $19 million - all of which counts against the cap next season, right? You can't structure franchise tag contracts out over a number of years, can you? I don't think you can. If they keep Rodgers, they will need to keep Adams too, and it would be cheaper against the cap to sign him and wave a magic wand over the contract to keep next year's cap hit lower than $19 million.

But I think they've known all season that they were going to tag Adams this year if they didn't resign him to a longterm deal. Nobody else makes sense. So I'm sure they've got all the scenarios mapped out on a spread sheet in Guteknust's office.

[bobblehead]

Lets just be honest. This was the year they sold out to win it all and we went one and done. If you can get 2 first and 2 second for Rodgers I can't find a good argument against it. If you can tag and trade Adams for an additional 1 and 2 you can then cut dead weigh, mail in a year and reset the cap issues. Yes you will win 4 games. Good, that makes your own pick a top 10 pick. Then you can begin loading young cheap talent through the draft, sign a select few FA to your reset cap, and begin winning again.

Edit: If Bak shows signs of not sucking, I would even deal him mid season and lock Elgton up to be the future LT (unless Yosh improves even more).

[texaspackerbacker]

Rodgers has a shit ton of money and his furture wife does as well I worry he wants it both ways. Wants the 3yr 40/year but unless we add a bunch of bogus years onto the deal with a signing bonus that would destroy out cap. Give him that deal and it decimates our cap and/or really hurts us down the road

Brady won a Shit ton of SB's taking team friendly deals. I'm not saying overpaid/underpaid....but deals were team friendly. Not sure Rodgers has that in him

Rodgers may or may not take a team friendly deal. I'm obviously not as negative about what's in his mind as some people in here. As I understand the cap, 5 years is the longest you can prorate a bonus for. Extending Rodgers that long even without any team discount like Brady got would give him a very manageable cap number - even if it's a couple hundred million total.

[texaspackerbacker]

The toughest part here is ADAMS is not taking any structure at 20MIL/Year. He's be signed already if he'd take that.

And I have a bad feeling because she sides sound far apart, they are going to franchise him. Seems like a no brainer. Even if they are not keeping him, you franchise, him and trade him

But to franchise him holy crap they have $$$$ to clear from the cap

Don't even think about franchising Adams or probably anybody else who is very good. Franchising is an absolute cap killer. Adams won't "settle for" an average of $20M per year? Ok, up it a little bit. The point, though, is that you can give a very acceptable $45M bonus and a tiny (if 1 million is tiny) first year salary, then you only have a $10M cap number.

[Thirteen Below]

Rodgers may or may not take a team friendly deal. I'm obviously not as negative about what's in his mind as some people in here. As I understand the cap, 5 years is the longest you can prorate a bonus for. Extending Rodgers that long even without any team discount like Brady got would give him a very manageable cap number - even if it's a couple hundred million total.

I just thought of something, though. Yes, Rodgers can make himself a free agent after next season, so on paper he can only threaten to hold out for one year if management tries to trade him but he refuses - but can't they threaten to tag him the following year? Tag and trade Adams this year, and use the tag next year on Riodgers? That would effectively put Guteknust in the position of sitting across the table from him and saying, "Your call, Superman. Take the trade to Denver or spend the next 2 years watching the NFL on TV every Sunday while your skills evaporate, and let's see who wants you in 2024 when you're 41 years old."

Is that scenario a theoretical possibility? I won't speculate on whether Gutekunst has the balls to do it, but is it possible?

[RashanGary]

Tex is making the most sense out of anyone here but I think he’s a little off. I do think we’re gonna have to make a couple tough decisions and move on from a couple players we don’t want to move on from.

But for the most part they can keep the band together.

I can pretty much guarantee the 2022 secondary is going to be better than 2021. Stokes will be much improved and Jaire will be a big boost over anyone we had playing this year.

I can also pretty much guarantee the OL will be better. Bakh should be back. Jenkins will be back mid season. Yosh will be better. Meyers will be better. Newman will be better. Even Runyan should be better. The whole OL should be improved.

We’ll lose a couple players but mostly stay in tact and be better in a couple spots. We can have another good year with mostly the same
Team. And it’s done by pushing money ahead like Tex talks about.

[Bretsky]

Don't even think about franchising Adams or probably anybody else who is very good. Franchising is an absolute cap killer. Adams won't "settle for" an average of $20M per year? Ok, up it a little bit. The point, though, is that you can give a very acceptable $45M bonus and a tiny (if 1 million is tiny) first year salary, then you only have a $10M cap number.

Hopkina signed for over 54MIL on 2 years. that hurts us here

[texaspackerbacker]

hahahahaha Thanks, I think, RG.

I pretty much agree with you about the secondary and to some extent about the O Line too. And we would still have Jones - one of the top RBs and Dillon too, and the rest of our D might be better too, although that is less sure. Even with all of that, though, even those aspects of the team probably will seem worse with a different QB - a lot more time on the field and pressure on the defense if there are more turnovers and less time of possession, also a lot more exposure of the O Line with just about anybody else at QB - we saw that against KC and Detroit. Also, the running game would have a lot less openings without the threat of a superstar QB. In other words, without Rodgers, the team is in the toilet. Sorry, but that's my take on it, and there's a rumor that I'm the biggest optimist in here.

[texaspackerbacker]

Hopkina signed for over 54MIL on 2 years. that hurts us here

True in terms of average per year to make Adams highest paid. Also, it would badly affect the franchise amount which I think is something like the average of the 3 top paid at the position or something like that. But we could pay
Adams about that much of an average over 5 years without much harm to the cap.

[Thirteen Below]

Hopkina signed for over 54MIL on 2 years. that hurts us here

It's going to hurt us either way - it drives his price up if he resigns with us, but it also drives up the price of his franchise tag, because that's based on the average of the 5 highest paid players at his position. That average price just went up significantly. If a coupld more deals are signed between now and March 8th that are also pushed higher because of that contract, the price of the franchise tag goes even higher, and strengthens his bargaining position when they try to negotiate a new deal.

Hopkins is now the highest-paid non-quarterback in NFL history. One of the ripples of this is that every team that has to negotiate with a WR this season is now going to pay more than they had planned. This was really the last thing Green Bay needed at the moment.

You know what really amazes me the most about this? Hopkins negotiated this deal himself. He is his own agent. This is an insanely good contract for him, and he did the whole thing himself. I've heard that he wants to be a GM after he retires; sounds like he's got the tools for that position as well.

[Thirteen Below]

True in terms of average per year to make Adams highest paid. Also, it would badly affect the franchise amount which I think is something like the average of the 3 top paid at the position or something like that. But we could pay
Adams about that much of an average over 5 years without much harm to the cap.

The only way it makes sense to tag Adams is to tag and trade. If Rodgers stays, we need to sign Adams to a voluntary longterm deal that's heavily backloaded. I don't see any other scenario that works - if Rodgers goes, tag and trade Adams; if Rodgers stays, sign Adams longterm and backload it.

[RashanGary]

Deandre Hopkins had a bad deal. They added two years at 27 million, but it was more like a 5 year, 100 million dollar deal than a 2 year, 54 million because the other years were averaged in.

[bobblehead]

Aaron Rodgers - Restructure could save 15m

Zadarius Smith - Cut saves 15m

Preston Smith - save 12m by cutting him.

Now we are about even on the cap but haven't signed Adams yet.

Randall Cobb - Cut him to save 7m

Lets say minimal moves gets us to even right here (it won't). We now don't have 53 players. No Tonyan, MVS, Lazard, Douglas, Sullivan, Campbell, Patrick, Kelly, NO PUNTER!!

I realize that a lot of those guys are replaceable, but even replacements cost some money. And no, undrafted FAs won't play up to those guys standards.

At this point even if we stretch the truth about the moves getting us to even and locking up Adams, we have no other WR to speak of, no MLB worth a damn, no second OLB, no depth at CB.

Now, you have to sell that new roster to Rodgers and Adams to get them onboard to make it happen.

[Thirteen Below]

Aaron Rodgers - Restructure could save 15m

Zadarius Smith - Cut saves 15m

Preston Smith - save 12m by cutting him.

Now we are about even on the cap but haven't signed Adams yet.

Randall Cobb - Cut him to save 7m

Lets say minimal moves gets us to even right here (it won't). We now don't have 53 players. No Tonyan, MVS, Lazard, Douglas, Sullivan, Campbell, Patrick, Kelly, NO PUNTER!!

I realize that a lot of those guys are replaceable, but even replacements cost some money. And no, undrafted FAs won't play up to those guys standards.

At this point even if we stretch the truth about the moves getting us to even and locking up Adams, we have no other WR to speak of, no MLB worth a damn, no second OLB, no depth at CB.

Now, you have to sell that new roster to Rodgers and Adams to get them onboard to make it happen.

And if we try to bring in young, cheap WRs (especially rookies), that just exacerbates one of our most glaring weaknesses - Rodgers' refusal to throw the football to anyone he's afraid might not catch it. If he won't throw to guys like Scantling and Lazard, who he's been playing with and practicing with for years, why would he start throwing to people he never even heard of before? It's back to trying to force the ball to a double-teamed Adams on 1st down, force it again to a double-teamed Adams on 2nd down, take a sack on 3rd down because Adams is triple-covered, then punt and sit on the sideline for 10 minutes glaring at everybody. And every single one of us screaming obscenities at our TVs because they didn't trade the damned fool when they had the chance.

[Bretsky]

And if we try to bring in young, cheap WRs (especially rookies), that just exacerbates one of our most glaring weaknesses - Rodgers' refusal to throw the football to anyone he's afraid might not catch it. If he won't throw to guys like Scantling and Lazard, who he's been playing with and practicing with for years, why would he start throwing to people he never even heard of before? It's back to trying to force the ball to a double-teamed Adams on 1st down, force it again to a double-teamed Adams on 2nd down, take a sack on 3rd down because Adams is triple-covered, then punt and sit on the sideline for 10 minutes glaring at everybody. And every single one of us screaming obscenities at our TVs because they didn't trade the damned fool when they had the chance.


I think "refusal" is a bit too strong.

Had we drafted Justin Jefferson for instance, he'd still be lighting up the NFL with Green Bay.
Perhaps Aiyuk as well. He's made some really poor decisions and locks into Adams too much
But we can win a Super Bowl With Rodgers

I have seen some sights indicating they think Alabama's all world WR who tore his ACL might fall into the late 20's. You give Rodgers a talent and he'll get confident really soon

[Thirteen Below]

I think "refusal" is a bit too strong.

Had we drafted Justin Jefferson for instance, he'd still be lighting up the NFL with Green Bay.
Perhaps Aiyuk as well. He's made some really poor decisions and locks into Adams too much
But we can win a Super Bowl With Rodgers

I have seen some sights indicating they think Alabama's all world WR who tore his ACL might fall into the late 20's. You give Rodgers a talent and he'll get confident really soon

You're probably right that I'm being overly bombastic, but I think I'm still frustrated and pissed about Saturday night. It's the culmination of several years of increasing frustration and disillusionment with Rodgers, all come to a head.

You're right, I know that my opinion is just that - an opinion, and certainly not objective fact. And of course yours is every bit as valid as my own, but I'm finally no longer capable of believing this guy is ever going to change enough to win a Super Bowl. Absolutely the best pure skill set of anyone who has ever taken a snap from center inthe NFL (and that opinion is one that I will strongly defend as objective fact), but he's a total head case. This conspiracy theory bullshit that he's been spouting the last couple of weeks just seals the deal for me - his head doesn't work the way it was designed.

I'd prefer that head be some other team's postseaon heartbreak after this season, not ours. I've loved watching him play, but I'd like to experience the thrill of watching my Packers win at least one more Lombardi Trophy in the relatively few years I probably have left. It's impossible for me to believe that's going to happen with Rodgers still wearing a Green Bay uniform. I want to see him traded to Denver for 1st and 2nd round picks, and Adams tagged and traded, so we can start rebuilding now - while we still have some cards to play, before we have no choice, and no options.

[Bretsky]

You're probably right that I'm being overly bombastic, but I think I'm still frustrated and pissed about Saturday night. It's the culmination of several years of increasing frustration and disillusionment with Rodgers, all come to a head.

You're right, I know that my opinion is just that - an opinion, and certainly not objective fact. And of course yours is every bit as valid as my own, but I'm finally no longer capable of believing this guy is ever going to change enough to win a Super Bowl. Absolutely the best pure skill set of anyone who has ever taken a snap from center inthe NFL (and that opinion is one that I will strongly defend as objective fact), but he's a total head case. This conspiracy theory bullshit that he's been spouting the last couple of weeks just seals the deal for me - his head doesn't work the way it was designed.

I'd prefer that head be some other team's postseaon heartbreak after this season, not ours. I've loved watching him play, but I'd like to experience the thrill of watching my Packers win at least one more Lombardi Trophy in the relatively few years I probably have left. It's impossible for me to believe that's going to happen with Rodgers still wearing a Green Bay uniform. I want to see him traded to Denver for 1st and 2nd round picks, and Adams tagged and traded, so we can start rebuilding now - while we still have some cards to play, before we have no choice, and no options.


for the first time in a while some agree with you and larger percentage would be ok with this; I'm sitll not sure where I am. Silverstein wrote a few days ago in JSO that if we trade Rodgers, and Adams, essentially we could draft a ton of elite defensive help and maybe get Jerry Jeudy to help out at WR. He argues we could set up the team for years to come. Figure out of Love is good on Matt's true offense, and roll the dice. I'd be more OK with this if Love has showed something but at least to me he has not. I keep hoping and praying the the Rodgers comes back for playoffs that we saw against Pittsburg. He had multiple WR's in that game he could trust. Besides Adams they were WAY WAY better than what we have surrounded him with now. So I tend to fall in the camp that hopes the Alabama receiver with the torn ACL falls into our lap if he has that much talent; but that does not help us next year.

Certainly looks like we have the wrong St Brown, and the opportunity was there to draft the right one last year when we instead drafted Amari Rodgers.


Time will tell I guess.
Brett

[beveaux1]

Perhaps the worst outcome for Packer fans would be if Rodgers decided to retire as he has started hinting at since early this year. We would get cap relief but no draft picks. I had never seen this as a real possibility given his MVP type play, but I’ve begun to sense that this may be a possibility. His talk about not coming back a year after his announcement makes me think that’s on his mind.

[Bretsky]

It would be TERRIBLE if he just retired. Some funny facebook musings I have to share.


The San Francisco 49ers didn't even draft Aaron Rodgers and he still gave us two wins
This is the second time this year Aaron Rodgers fooled us into thinking he had a shot.

[bobblehead]

You're probably right that I'm being overly bombastic, but I think I'm still frustrated and pissed about Saturday night. It's the culmination of several years of increasing frustration and disillusionment with Rodgers, all come to a head.

You're right, I know that my opinion is just that - an opinion, and certainly not objective fact. And of course yours is every bit as valid as my own, but I'm finally no longer capable of believing this guy is ever going to change enough to win a Super Bowl. Absolutely the best pure skill set of anyone who has ever taken a snap from center inthe NFL (and that opinion is one that I will strongly defend as objective fact), but he's a total head case. This conspiracy theory bullshit that he's been spouting the last couple of weeks just seals the deal for me - his head doesn't work the way it was designed.

I'd prefer that head be some other team's postseaon heartbreak after this season, not ours. I've loved watching him play, but I'd like to experience the thrill of watching my Packers win at least one more Lombardi Trophy in the relatively few years I probably have left. It's impossible for me to believe that's going to happen with Rodgers still wearing a Green Bay uniform. I want to see him traded to Denver for 1st and 2nd round picks, and Adams tagged and traded, so we can start rebuilding now - while we still have some cards to play, before we have no choice, and no options.

Your opinion is welcome. If you would like to spout off your own stupidity and come to FYI and defend it I look forward to robust discussion. However in the football section keep your own ignorant, non fact based political opinions to yourself. Or you can be like HH, state something we aren't allowed to discuss as a fact when you are horribly wrong and uninformed and then hope Mad stops me and others from exposing your ignorance.

[Sparkey]

Tex is making the most sense out of anyone here but I think he’s a little off. I do think we’re gonna have to make a couple tough decisions and move on from a couple players we don’t want to move on from.

But for the most part they can keep the band together.

I can pretty much guarantee the 2022 secondary is going to be better than 2021. Stokes will be much improved and Jaire will be a big boost over anyone we had playing this year.

I can also pretty much guarantee the OL will be better. Bakh should be back. Jenkins will be back mid season. Yosh will be better. Meyers will be better. Newman will be better. Even Runyan should be better. The whole OL should be improved.

We’ll lose a couple players but mostly stay in tact and be better in a couple spots. We can have another good year with mostly the same
Team. And it’s done by pushing money ahead like Tex talks about.

What if no one likes the damned music the band keeps playing ?

[Spaulding]

You're probably right that I'm being overly bombastic, but I think I'm still frustrated and pissed about Saturday night. It's the culmination of several years of increasing frustration and disillusionment with Rodgers, all come to a head.

You're right, I know that my opinion is just that - an opinion, and certainly not objective fact. And of course yours is every bit as valid as my own, but I'm finally no longer capable of believing this guy is ever going to change enough to win a Super Bowl. Absolutely the best pure skill set of anyone who has ever taken a snap from center inthe NFL (and that opinion is one that I will strongly defend as objective fact), but he's a total head case. This conspiracy theory bullshit that he's been spouting the last couple of weeks just seals the deal for me - his head doesn't work the way it was designed.

I'd prefer that head be some other team's postseaon heartbreak after this season, not ours. I've loved watching him play, but I'd like to experience the thrill of watching my Packers win at least one more Lombardi Trophy in the relatively few years I probably have left. It's impossible for me to believe that's going to happen with Rodgers still wearing a Green Bay uniform. I want to see him traded to Denver for 1st and 2nd round picks, and Adams tagged and traded, so we can start rebuilding now - while we still have some cards to play, before we have no choice, and no options.

I'm here as well. Rodgers as talented and successful as he's been in the regular season isn't the same player in the playoffs for whatever reason. He obviously gives us the best chance to make the playoffs in 2022 but given prior history, it's seems to be just prolonging the season's disappointing end. It's almost like we're a slightly more successful version of the Vikings these days.

Moving on for him has the potential to give the organization it's best chance of success post Rodgers and a fresh start for him might be just what he needs to get over that playoff hump that seems to exist for him here.

Given the cap situation, I don't see how the team can be any better this coming year than it was this year and thus while other teams improve, we're likely going the opposite direction. We had so many factors in our favor these playoffs (returning players, a solid defense, home field advantage with fans in the stands, etc.) and yet came up short.

Should be an interesting offseason to say the least.

[call_me_ishmael]

I think "refusal" is a bit too strong.

Had we drafted Justin Jefferson for instance, he'd still be lighting up the NFL with Green Bay.
Perhaps Aiyuk as well. He's made some really poor decisions and locks into Adams too much
But we can win a Super Bowl With Rodgers

I have seen some sights indicating they think Alabama's all world WR who tore his ACL might fall into the late 20's. You give Rodgers a talent and he'll get confident really soon

LOL this one is tough because you're sort of in the JLO situation of not having a player next year and being a rookie in the year when he should be a key contributor. Tough deal, but I'd still consider it.

[call_me_ishmael]

Can you just "tear up" a contract and redo it? Like... is Aaron's 2022 numbers locked in, or can they be changed via an "extension" even though technically the terms of the new contract wouldn't begin until 2023?

I assume you can "tear up" the contract because they did last year to remove a year.

Assuming you *can* do the above, I put together this quick table in about 10 minutes.



Z - cut him and save 15M

Baktiari - Convert 3.2M base to 1M w/ rest becoming signing bonus (2.2M savings this year), Convert the 9.5M roster bonus into signing bonus (3.17M savings this year), save total of 5.3M

Rodgers - Redo contract to be a 3 year deal w/ minimum base salary and the rest as a signing bonus. 37M per year.
1M base salary per year
108M signing bonus
Use 5 void years
13.5 signing bonus per year (5 years of carrying 13.5 dead cap, or they could do a retirement contract and redo it so the piper is paid over a year or two)

Rodgers cap number is 14.5M this year

So reducing his cap number from 48M to 13.5M is a saving of 35M

Let's say they did 2 void years (for the post-Rodgers rebuild)

1M base salary per year
108M signing bonus
Use 2 void years
21.6 signing bonus per year

Rodgers cap number this year is 22.M


Preston - Sign to a 2 year extension, 11M per year (hopefully realistic)
- Convert 3.4M of roster bonus to signing bonus (save 1.13M this year)
- Redo this year's salary from 8.35M to 1.35M and convert 7M to signing bonus (Save 2.3M this year)
- Save total of ~3.5M without sacrificing future very much at all


Davante - Sign to 3 year deal worth 75M
a. 1M salary per year
b. 24M signing bonus per year
c. 5 void years
Cap hit per year is 9 per year






They can easily get under the cap and bring most folks back without totally blowing it up or FUBARing the cap too badly. It will be painful for a year or two post rodgers, but that's it. No biggie and frankly helps the rebuild.

[red]

Can you just "tear up" a contract and redo it? Like... is Aaron's 2022 numbers locked in, or can they be changed via an "extension" even though technically the terms of the new contract wouldn't begin until 2023?

I assume you can "tear up" the contract because they did last year to remove a year.

no, you can't just tear up a contract. the pro rated cap him remains . right now, out of his 46.6 million dollar cap hit, over 19 million of it comes from the pro rated signing bonus. that number CAN NOT go down, it can only go up


now. when you rework a deal. you don't usually just wipe out everything and start from scratch. you take the salary amount they are suppose to get this year and include it into a signing bonus for a new longer deal. rodgers salary next year is 27 million. the new signing bonus will be a t least that. now a rod isn't just gonna sign a new longer extension with just a 27 million dollor signing bonus. why would he? he's suppose to make that much any ways this year

i would guess that at best, if we re work his deal, we would kick a ton down the road to eat up future cap, and then he would still end up with a cap number next year of at least 30 million
so thats our starting point for his cap number if he stay

[run pMc]

You're probably right that I'm being overly bombastic, but I think I'm still frustrated and pissed about Saturday night. It's the culmination of several years of increasing frustration and disillusionment with Rodgers, all come to a head.

You're right, I know that my opinion is just that - an opinion, and certainly not objective fact. And of course yours is every bit as valid as my own, but I'm finally no longer capable of believing this guy is ever going to change enough to win a Super Bowl. Absolutely the best pure skill set of anyone who has ever taken a snap from center inthe NFL (and that opinion is one that I will strongly defend as objective fact), but he's a total head case. This conspiracy theory bullshit that he's been spouting the last couple of weeks just seals the deal for me - his head doesn't work the way it was designed.

I'd prefer that head be some other team's postseaon heartbreak after this season, not ours. I've loved watching him play, but I'd like to experience the thrill of watching my Packers win at least one more Lombardi Trophy in the relatively few years I probably have left. It's impossible for me to believe that's going to happen with Rodgers still wearing a Green Bay uniform. I want to see him traded to Denver for 1st and 2nd round picks, and Adams tagged and traded, so we can start rebuilding now - while we still have some cards to play, before we have no choice, and no options.

As much as I'd hate to see an MVP level QB leave, I think keeping him will be detrimental to the long term, and even if they do keep him the team will have to retool at WR and DL/OLB/ILB. The OL and CB spots look pretty good going forward, but this team will not have the same level of talent as this year. They weathered an incredible number of injuries, but I can't help but feel like they underperformed. How many times this year did you feel they played a complete game?

Re: Rodgers recent record in the playoffs. You can argue a few of these losses weren't on him, but consider these games: 2014 where Russ had like 4 INT's (he had thrown 7 all year), 2016 where they had LaDarius trying to guard Julio, a game where Jimmy G threw the ball 8 times, the Kevin King/Will Redmond fiasco, and a game where the opposing offense scored 6 points. It's really hard to get to the Owl with a great QB, but you need a defense and a good supporting cast/depth to do it. GB will be hard pressed to have that (special teams mess notwithstanding) in the next two seasons, which is the likely career window for Rodgers.

I agree trading him for picks would help them long term. I'm against that because great QBs are rare and it would be really hard to watch this team after what we've seen. I don't think it would be a lost decade like the 80's. Free agency and other factors (better scouting, QBs moving around) would likely mitigate that, plus I actually think Gute and MLF are at least average to above-average at their jobs (compare to CHI, NYJ, JAX, WFT, NYG). If Rodgers is gone, it won't be because Gute/MLF didn't try. It sounds like the relationships have been repaired significantly.

Rodgers could very well retire and they get nothing for him... which isn't a great ending either, but in some ways would be easier to take as a fan than seeing him dueling Mahomes for AFC supremacy on Monday night games.

[Thirteen Below]

Your opinion is welcome. If you would like to spout off your own stupidity and come to FYI and defend it I look forward to robust discussion. However in the football section keep your own ignorant, non fact based political opinions to yourself. Or you can be like HH, state something we aren't allowed to discuss as a fact when you are horribly wrong and uninformed and then hope Mad stops me and others from exposing your ignorance.

Jesus, do you always have this much difficulty controlling your emotions? You'd have to be amazingly easily triggered to interpet anything I said as a "political opinion," and even more easily triggered to throw such a childish tantrum over it. With that kind of thought process, you might want to be more cautious throwing around words like "ignorant."

[red]

Can you just "tear up" a contract and redo it? Like... is Aaron's 2022 numbers locked in, or can they be changed via an "extension" even though technically the terms of the new contract wouldn't begin until 2023?

I assume you can "tear up" the contract because they did last year to remove a year.

Assuming you *can* do the above, I put together this quick table in about 10 minutes.



Z - cut him and save 15M

Baktiari - Convert 3.2M base to 1M w/ rest becoming signing bonus (2.2M savings this year), Convert the 9.5M roster bonus into signing bonus (3.17M savings this year), save total of 5.3M

Rodgers - Redo contract to be a 3 year deal w/ minimum base salary and the rest as a signing bonus. 37M per year.
1M base salary per year
108M signing bonus
Use 5 void years
13.5 signing bonus per year (5 years of carrying 13.5 dead cap, or they could do a retirement contract and redo it so the piper is paid over a year or two)

Rodgers cap number is 14.5M this year

So reducing his cap number from 48M to 13.5M is a saving of 35M

Let's say they did 2 void years (for the post-Rodgers rebuild)

1M base salary per year
108M signing bonus
Use 2 void years
21.6 signing bonus per year

Rodgers cap number this year is 22.M


Preston - Sign to a 2 year extension, 11M per year (hopefully realistic)
- Convert 3.4M of roster bonus to signing bonus (save 1.13M this year)
- Redo this year's salary from 8.35M to 1.35M and convert 7M to signing bonus (Save 2.3M this year)
- Save total of ~3.5M without sacrificing future very much at all


Davante - Sign to 3 year deal worth 75M
a. 1M salary per year
b. 24M signing bonus per year
c. 5 void years
Cap hit per year is 9 per year






They can easily get under the cap and bring most folks back without totally blowing it up or FUBARing the cap too badly. It will be painful for a year or two post rodgers, but that's it. No biggie and frankly helps the rebuild.

your numbers are all kind of fucked

you want to give him a 108m signing bonus over 5 years. thats over 22 million in pro rated signing bonus per year for 5 years.

you would then have to add that to the already 19.1 m in signing bonus he already has

so doing your thing. we end up with 41 million in pro rated signing bonus for this year . plus the minimum salary for a guy his age (probably at least a couple million

so his cap number in 2022 would be somewhere around 43 million or more. cap saving of a few bucks

and the cap hit if released in year 2 or after would be massive. like 80 some million last year and around 60 million if traded or released or retires after the 2023 season

[Thirteen Below]

As much as I'd hate to see an MVP level QB leave, I think keeping him will be detrimental to the long term, and even if they do keep him the team will have to retool at WR and DL/OLB/ILB. The OL and CB spots look pretty good going forward, but this team will not have the same level of talent as this year. They weathered an incredible number of injuries, but I can't help but feel like they underperformed. How many times this year did you feel they played a complete game?


I have to say I see it pretty much the same way. There are teams out there that just never let up, never give you a chance to catch your breath, and it's been a long time since I've seen Green Bay as that kind of team. I sometimes wonder if some of the people in the organization (both on and off the field) have gotten into the habit of taking Rodgers for granted - just knowing that he's one of those very rare players who can just take an entire game away from the other team in less than a minute. I've seen this team perform at an elite level numerous times over the last 30 years, but I hardly ever seem to remember seeing them play with a sense of urgency, a killer instinct. Like for instance, the Niners did the other night.

I feel depressed too about what the team will look like after he goes. I dunno who we're going to replace him with, but we'll never see a quarterback with his skill in Green Bay again. I always knew that when Favre left, I'd never enjoy watching the game quite as much again, and I haven't. He was the most thrilling quarterback I ever saw, but Rodgers made up for that with his absolutely otherworldly skills. Now that we're almost at the end of Rodgers, I know that I'll never see such pure, utter brilliance in a quarterback again, and this time I know we're not going to be so lucky with the next generation. I really didn't want it to end this way, or this soon, but even in the best case scenario I don't envision Rodgers playing more than one more season in a Packer uniform.

I don't know if you absolutely have to have a truly great quarterback to win the Lombadi, but obviously it sure makes it easier to build the rest of a team around. I never saw Eli Manning as a great quarterback, but he's got twice as many rings as Rodgers. He's just a very good QB who takes his game to a whole different level when the season is on the line, and refuses to let the other team beat him. He's exactly .500 (117-117) in the regular season, but .667 in the postseason - 8-4. Kind of the anti-Rodgers. Which one would you have rather had? Rodgers, who probably has the greatest pure skill set of any passer who ever played the game and made every regular season a thrilling ride full of magical plays, or the guy who just gutted it out all season long and turned decent teams into champions as many times as Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers together have done in the last 30 years?

I think I'd rather have had Manning. He didn't make the playoffs as often, but he won the whole thing 1 out of every 3 times he did. That's really remarkable. Rodgers and Favre each won it 1 time out of every 11. It's just really hard to look at those numbers and not feel very disappointed, and frustrated for what could have been.

[MadtownPacker]

Your opinion is welcome. If you would like to spout off your own stupidity and come to FYI and defend it I look forward to robust discussion. However in the football section keep your own ignorant, non fact based political opinions to yourself. Or you can be like HH, state something we aren't allowed to discuss as a fact when you are horribly wrong and uninformed and then hope Mad stops me and others from exposing your ignorance.
Sigh, we were doing so good too.

You have definitely gone off the rails on this one. he did not say anything politcal. Rodgers has said everyone is out too get him so it kept it pretty clean, something you and all your playmates are not able to do it seems.

Now you attacking him after making a really good post what’s up with that? Also you seem to be trying to control what the situation is here that’s not what you’re trying to do correct? Because that would be my thing to do wouldn’t you agree? As far as HH goes he gets to do what he wants because I say so. Is me doing whatever not OK with you?

[Sparkey]

I think some people don't understand void years either. Those void years are only there to help a team adjust the cap while that player is still there. For example, a guy gets a 3 year deal with 2 void years. When that 3rd year ends, those 2 voidable years are all accelerated the the teams 3rd year cap hit.

Look at NO this year. 70 million over the cap. They are going to have to gut the team of talent and might be a partial explanation as to why Payton retired.

[texaspackerbacker]

Can you just "tear up" a contract and redo it? Like... is Aaron's 2022 numbers locked in, or can they be changed via an "extension" even though technically the terms of the new contract wouldn't begin until 2023?

I assume you can "tear up" the contract because they did last year to remove a year.

Assuming you *can* do the above, I put together this quick table in about 10 minutes.



Z - cut him and save 15M

Baktiari - Convert 3.2M base to 1M w/ rest becoming signing bonus (2.2M savings this year), Convert the 9.5M roster bonus into signing bonus (3.17M savings this year), save total of 5.3M

Rodgers - Redo contract to be a 3 year deal w/ minimum base salary and the rest as a signing bonus. 37M per year.
1M base salary per year
108M signing bonus
Use 5 void years
13.5 signing bonus per year (5 years of carrying 13.5 dead cap, or they could do a retirement contract and redo it so the piper is paid over a year or two)

Rodgers cap number is 14.5M this year

So reducing his cap number from 48M to 13.5M is a saving of 35M

Let's say they did 2 void years (for the post-Rodgers rebuild)

1M base salary per year
108M signing bonus
Use 2 void years
21.6 signing bonus per year

Rodgers cap number this year is 22.M


Preston - Sign to a 2 year extension, 11M per year (hopefully realistic)
- Convert 3.4M of roster bonus to signing bonus (save 1.13M this year)
- Redo this year's salary from 8.35M to 1.35M and convert 7M to signing bonus (Save 2.3M this year)
- Save total of ~3.5M without sacrificing future very much at all


Davante - Sign to 3 year deal worth 75M
a. 1M salary per year
b. 24M signing bonus per year
c. 5 void years
Cap hit per year is 9 per year






They can easily get under the cap and bring most folks back without totally blowing it up or FUBARing the cap too badly. It will be painful for a year or two post rodgers, but that's it. No biggie and frankly helps the rebuild.

This is good work, CMI. Did you do it, or just find it some place? The haters aren't gonna like a commitment like this to Rodgers, but it's exactly like I've been saying, all things are possible if you handle the cap right.

[RashanGary]

This is good work, CMI. Did you do it, or just find it some place? The haters aren't gonna like a commitment like this to Rodgers, but it's exactly like I've been saying, all things are possible if you handle the cap right.

CMI hit it. They’re going to be fine. It’s gonna be a couple lost players like Z and probably Rasul and Cobb. Maybe one more, I don’t know.

But the OL will be improved.

Bakhtiari over Yosh and Jenkins
Jenkins over Runyan
Meyers better than rookie Meyers
Runyan better than rookie Newman
Yosh or Turner at RT

Obviously the OL is going to be much better.


Also the secondary will be improved.

Stokes over rookie Stokes
Jaire over Rasul and King
Savage should be improved
Amos should stay the same

The secondary is obviously better in 2022.


There is no rebuild. Mark it down. And they should be able to keep Adams. The cap is going way up in the coming years. We’re fine.

[Bretsky]

This is good work, CMI. Did you do it, or just find it some place? The haters aren't gonna like a commitment like this to Rodgers, but it's exactly like I've been saying, all things are possible if you handle the cap right.



Agree this is great stuff as I like the voidable years

But you havents addressed Devante Adams, who commented last week he deserves to be the highest paid WR

Or Campbell, or many of the others

We're still going to have to lose some elite talent iMO

[RashanGary]

2022 can be a super bowl season with some health luck. Maybe we just have a really lucky year and win it. You can’t get too down because of one playoff loss. The odds of winning the SB are slim but that doesn’t mean you stop trying after a near miss.

[texaspackerbacker]

Agree this is great stuff as I like the voidable years

But you havents addressed Devante Adams, who commented last week he deserves to be the highest paid WR

Or Campbell, or many of the others

We're still going to have to lose some elite talent iMO

As I understand what he posted, it doesn't take into consideration any cap increase - which is likely to be large. They could do something similar with Adams on a slightly lesser scale than with Rodgers. I already posted an example of that in one of these threads. I don't think they need to lose Douglas or Campbell or anybody else of substance other than Z. Smith. They shouldn't pay Cobb $7M, but they ought to be able to bring him back for way less - a couple million cap hit maybe.

[call_me_ishmael]

I put that together.

The big caveat is we don't have a big time super rich owner, so the money aspect of it is relevant. This strategy is cheating the cap but still paying lots of money out *now*. If they don't cook the cap, they would lose players, etc but they'd spend a lot less money now.

Of course, over a 5-10 year timeline, it will all balance out because the cap is what it is and as long as you spend close to the cap, it's the same amount of money out of pocket whether the cap is cooked or not.

So the tl;dr is it comes down to A) what the team wants to do and B) are they willing to be out extra cash flow this year while saving cash flow in the coming years down the road (fewer signing bonuses)

[red]

CMI hit it. They’re going to be fine. It’s gonna be a couple lost players like Z and probably Rasul and Cobb. Maybe one more, I don’t know.

But the OL will be improved.

Bakhtiari over Yosh and Jenkins
Jenkins over Runyan
Meyers better than rookie Meyers
Runyan better than rookie Newman
Yosh or Turner at RT

Obviously the OL is going to be much better.


Also the secondary will be improved.

Stokes over rookie Stokes
Jaire over Rasul and King
Savage should be improved
Amos should stay the same

The secondary is obviously better in 2022.


There is no rebuild. Mark it down. And they should be able to keep Adams. The cap is going way up in the coming years. We’re fine.

yeah he did a lot of work. too bad all his numbers and math are incorrect

[red]

As I understand what he posted, it doesn't take into consideration any cap increase - which is likely to be large. They could do something similar with Adams on a slightly lesser scale than with Rodgers. I already posted an example of that in one of these threads. I don't think they need to lose Douglas or Campbell or anybody else of substance other than Z. Smith. They shouldn't pay Cobb $7M, but they ought to be able to bring him back for way less - a couple million cap hit maybe.

he also didn't take into account how the cap actually works

[Sparkey]

Signing bonus prorates over 5 years max.

[call_me_ishmael]

yeah he did a lot of work. too bad all his numbers and math are incorrect

You might be right that they would have a little bit more bonus money to defer for Rodgers. I don't think that fundamentally changes the equation _that_ much.

[call_me_ishmael]

The big thing is _if_ they do it, they are basically committing to keeping the current players together for a number of years. You are committing to a hefty cap for years to come.

[Fritz]

I just don't see how you can keep this team together next year, period. Unless Gute drafts out of his mind and finds two more gems like Campbell and Douglas - and that is rare - the team won't be as talented as this year's team, in my opinion. And this year's team couldn't get past San Fran.

I don't know. We've been spoiled watching Rodgers in the regular season, but he's pooped the bed a couple of times in the playoffs now. So how do you get to the SB? I really don't know.

[RashanGary]

The big thing is _if_ they do it, they are basically committing to keeping the current players together for a number of years. You are committing to a hefty cap for years to come.

We’re right at the end of Rodgers playing prime ball. Get three more years and then rebuild.

[red]

You might be right that they would have a little bit more bonus money to defer for Rodgers. I don't think that fundamentally changes the equation _that_ much.

you said his cap number for this year would be 14.5 or 22 million

his prorated potion for this year is already 19.1. THAT NUMBER CAN NOT GOT DOWN!!!!!!!

you want to give him another 108 million dollar signing bonus. spread over 5 years, thats another 21.6 for pro rated signing bonus per year

YOU ADD THAT NUMBER to the pro rated signing bonus he already has, it doesn't replace it. it can't replace it cause the cap doesn't work that way

so under you idea his new cap number for 2022 is 40.7 million from pro rated signing bonus + whatever his salary is

so you haven't fix anything

his cap number next year would have a 29 million dollar pro rated signing bonus + salary

after that you would still have around 65 million in dead cap money

your numbers for bak and preston seem right. but with your numbers for rodgers being so far off, it makes the restructure of preston kinda complicated. saving 3.5 million in cap this year on preston means we still have to cut a lot of guys. p smith is one of the few guys we can cut and get a big cap break from

[red]

we are 40 million over the cap

sounds like big z is gonna be cut. that frees up 15.3 million

cobb most likely is gone. that frees up 8.1 million

for me, lowry can go. he's the only real guy with a decent cap number that can go away. that saves 5.8

so theres 29.2 million in savings. so we still need to find about 10 million.

restructuring preston, gets us 3.5 more

might be able to eaiter cut or give amos a new deal. cutting him frees 4 million

and thats about all i can fine for freeing up money. guys like mase and some others can free up a million here or there, but nothing big

so now we're almost at break ever, with no one else to cut, and no free cap space to sign free agents

now if we trade rodgers plus z, cobb, lowry, amos and maybe a couple others. now we can start thinking about re signing some of our free agents

[red]

Sigh, we were doing so good too.

You have definitely gone off the rails on this one. he did not say anything politcal. Rodgers has said everyone is out too get him so it kept it pretty clean, something you and all your playmates are not able to do it seems.

Now you attacking him after making a really good post what’s up with that? Also you seem to be trying to control what the situation is here that’s not what you’re trying to do correct? Because that would be my thing to do wouldn’t you agree? As far as HH goes he gets to do what he wants because I say so. Is me doing whatever not OK with you?

well i'm shocked

[George Cumby]

So great. A-A-ron is going to speak to Gutey this week. Great. Wonderful.

You're under contract A-A-ron. Gutey makes the call.

What is best for the team, long-term, is to trade the Diva QB who consistently fails in the biggest games for maximum draft capital and maybe a player or two.

We have the pieces in place for a decent team even with a questionable Jordan Love. None of the NFC North teams are in that much better of a place.

Love may develop, we don't know yet.

But I'm done with this drama queen bullshit and these lame playoff performances. It's time for a fucking change.

Sure, we may head into dark times, but it's not like we've seen the Lombardi for ten fucking years.

[RashanGary]

They know more about Love than we do and I don’t think they like what they’ve got. They’re gonna take three more stabs with Aaron and then rebuild.

And Rodgers isn’t a diva.

[jklowan]

we need 63.3 million not 43
Need to clear by March 16th (no trades) ��-$53.4M: Space with draft & fill roster with rookies ��-$63.3M:

[jklowan]

again Rogers is gone, this current we made up is only PR so Rogers leaves on good terms with the fan base and the fans don't hang the Packers brass. Let the Love era start for better or worse.

[Sparkey]

They know more about Love than we do and I don’t think they like what they’ve got. They’re gonna take three more stabs with Aaron and then rebuild.

And Rodgers isn’t a diva.

In this, I agree.

[jklowan]

I'll go with Cleveland as his landing spot

[jklowan]

I'm hoping the return is future drafts as this one seems weak in the areas we need help with Rogers gone

[Bretsky]

They know more about Love than we do and I don’t think they like what they’ve got. They’re gonna take three more stabs with Aaron and then rebuild.

And Rodgers isn’t a diva.

agree

[jklowan]

can I coin aagon

[Joemailman]

can I coin aagon

What?:cnf:

[jklowan]

Aagon Rogers tm

[Rastak]

Sigh, we were doing so good too.

You have definitely gone off the rails on this one. he did not say anything politcal. Rodgers has said everyone is out too get him so it kept it pretty clean, something you and all your playmates are not able to do it seems.

Now you attacking him after making a really good post what’s up with that? Also you seem to be trying to control what the situation is here that’s not what you’re trying to do correct? Because that would be my thing to do wouldn’t you agree? As far as HH goes he gets to do what he wants because I say so. Is me doing whatever not OK with you?


Good man Mad. Hope you are well, and I agree.

As to Rodgers, going to be interesting. I was somewhat surprised when Sean Payton bailed on the Saints but they kicked the can and are fucked. Just surprised he who along with Loomis caused the damn thing to just bail.

Put Tex in charge and you guys are fucked. He is right about the cap going up it goes up for EVERYBODY.

I have no answers and no idea how it will play out. Should be interesting to watch either way. Packers had one helluva year.

[call_me_ishmael]

I just don't see how you can keep this team together next year, period. Unless Gute drafts out of his mind and finds two more gems like Campbell and Douglas - and that is rare - the team won't be as talented as this year's team, in my opinion. And this year's team couldn't get past San Fran.

I don't know. We've been spoiled watching Rodgers in the regular season, but he's pooped the bed a couple of times in the playoffs now. So how do you get to the SB? I really don't know.

Well, the hope is instead of Jaire getting injured, it'd be CB4 or something. Same with instead of Z getting injured, it'd be OLB 4.

My read:

MVS was a bigger loss than one might think. His speed changes things and as such they didn't throw to receivers when he wasn't in.

They were missing two all-pro linemen, possible 2 of the best 5 linemen in the league.

They were missing their all-pro CB and replaced him with a decent player, but our CB is much better when both are healthy.

I agree they nailed MLB this year.

[call_me_ishmael]

you said his cap number for this year would be 14.5 or 22 million

his prorated potion for this year is already 19.1. THAT NUMBER CAN NOT GOT DOWN!!!!!!!


How do you figure? I don't believe that to be true. Why can't you tear that contract up and redo it.

Even if that is true, then pay him a 1M salary and he is at 20M for the year on the cap. By my model of him getting 37M per year, push 17M out.


you want to give him another 108 million dollar signing bonus. spread over 5 years, thats another 21.6 for pro rated signing bonus per year

You're double dipping here. He either gets his existing signing bonus money for this year, or he doesn't. If you're factoring in this year, then he gets a two year extension with 72M in new guaranteed money over five years, but that wouldn't kick in until next year anyway. They would do it as a roster bonus and convert to signing bonus next year.


YOU ADD THAT NUMBER to the pro rated signing bonus he already has, it doesn't replace it. it can't replace it cause the cap doesn't work that way

so under you idea his new cap number for 2022 is 40.7 million from pro rated signing bonus + whatever his salary is

so you haven't fix anything

his cap number next year would have a 29 million dollar pro rated signing bonus + salary

after that you would still have around 65 million in dead cap money

your numbers for bak and preston seem right. but with your numbers for rodgers being so far off, it makes the restructure of preston kinda complicated. saving 3.5 million in cap this year on preston means we still have to cut a lot of guys. p smith is one of the few guys we can cut and get a big cap break from

Maybe. I'm not sure.

[red]

its seems to me that you have no fucking clue what so ever how the salary cap works

[George Cumby]

Good man Mad. Hope you are well, and I agree.

As to Rodgers, going to be interesting. I was somewhat surprised when Sean Payton bailed on the Saints but they kicked the can and are fucked. Just surprised he who along with Loomis caused the damn thing to just bail.

Put Tex in charge and you guys are fucked. He is right about the cap going up it goes up for EVERYBODY.

I have no answers and no idea how it will play out. Should be interesting to watch either way. Packers had one helluva year.

Classy as always, Ras.

Glad to have you drop in.

[NewsBruin]

The 2022 league minimum (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cba/minimum/) for players with 7 or more accrued seasons is $1.12M. Rodgers' signing bonus (already paid to him in 2018) cost against the 2022 cap (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/aaron-rodgers-3745) is $16.3M, plus $2.85M from the last restructure.

If ARod were to agree to the minimum salary with no bonus money for his troubles, he would count $20.25M against the cap. That doesn't include any guaranteed bonuses or other charges that I don't understand. That's Gutes going to ARod, asking him to give up everything he's signed for, to take the least that we could pay him, so that messageboard fans could sleep well at night. $20.25 million against the 2022 cap. For taking home half the gameday check that punter Cameron Johnson (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/cameron-johnston-22053/)takes home.

For someone with his trust issues, I don't think he'd agree to a 2-year (at the least) deal that pays him peanuts now but allows him to get everything back in 2023, when we've already worked out a deal that lets him turn in his keys at the end of 2022.

[Upnorth]

If we extend him he would treat any signing bonus as this year's salary and it is spread over the remainging years of the contract (likely at least 3). From overthecap extending him in and giving him a 0 base salary this year gets us to a 22 million savings so only 26 mill against the cap. Now we only need to find 29 more million in savings and love is gone.

What next?

This strategy is better (in terms of cap savings) than trading pre June 1, and worse than trading (post June 1)..
Pre june 1 savings of 19.8 mill, post June 1 27.5 mil.
Man our cap is broken.

[texaspackerbacker]

Some of these idiots just don't stop hahahahaha.

[red]

Some of these idiots just don't stop hahahahaha.

now you know how all the rest of us feel every time you post

[George Cumby]

ROFLMAO

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Maybe some of the sportswriters are correct and we don't win the big games cause we are too concentrated in a couple positions, and NOT a great TEAM. I wish I was younger as I do have fond memories of watching a bad packers grow into a good TEAM. But whatever. It's time to trade rodgers for what we can get.

[Upnorth]

Maybe some of the sportswriters are correct and we don't win the big games cause we are too concentrated in a couple positions, and NOT a great TEAM. I wish I was younger as I do have fond memories of watching a bad packers grow into a good TEAM. But whatever. It's time to trade rodgers for what we can get.

So our concentration of quality is olb, cb, rb? Oline when they get healthy?

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Where our strength is makes good conversation but the results say it is not good enough to win it all..

[Bossman641]

The JS has a really good breakdown of the situation with numbers thrown out by agents. Here's the gist of it. Sign Rodgers to a 5 year, 226 million deal that would essentially be 3 year 135 million. That takes his cap number from 46 to 36. They can restructure a few others and open enough to franchise Adams but leaves no money for Campbell, Douglas, Lazard, Tonyan, or MVS.

[Teamcheez1]

I can see the thinking behind the potential extension except that Rodgers isn’t worth $135M. If he wants to be here for three years he has to take less than that.

[call_me_ishmael]

The JS has a really good breakdown of the situation with numbers thrown out by agents. Here's the gist of it. Sign Rodgers to a 5 year, 226 million deal that would essentially be 3 year 135 million. That takes his cap number from 46 to 36. They can restructure a few others and open enough to franchise Adams but leaves no money for Campbell, Douglas, Lazard, Tonyan, or MVS.

Woof. Does that include cutting Z? If you are losing Rodgers two weapons that he trusts (and presumably Cobber), who is gonna throw to lol.

I guess I am sort of shifting my opinion towards it's time to blow the bitch up.

Not that Lazard, MVS or Tonyan are game changers but you gotta have _something_ there.

[Fritz]

The JS has a really good breakdown of the situation with numbers thrown out by agents. Here's the gist of it. Sign Rodgers to a 5 year, 226 million deal that would essentially be 3 year 135 million. That takes his cap number from 46 to 36. They can restructure a few others and open enough to franchise Adams but leaves no money for Campbell, Douglas, Lazard, Tonyan, or MVS.

With Tonyan coming off a serious injury and MVS playing The Invisible Man after he came back from injury, then getting injured again, any chance these two sign a one-year "prove it" deal?

[call_me_ishmael]

With Tonyan coming off a serious injury and MVS playing The Invisible Man after he came back from injury, then getting injured again, any chance these two sign a one-year "prove it" deal?

I don't think any of the three of them will get enough for it to be prohibitive. You could - in normal situations - easily push the money forward to keep them. BUT they might be exhausting all of their push-money-forward options to get the money where it is in the above example.

[Bossman641]

Woof. Does that include cutting Z? If you are losing Rodgers two weapons that he trusts (and presumably Cobber), who is gonna throw to lol.

I guess I am sort of shifting my opinion towards it's time to blow the bitch up.

Not that Lazard, MVS or Tonyan are game changers but you gotta have _something_ there.

No, the article didn't include the math but this includes converting salaries to signing bonuses for both Smiths, bakhtiari, Clark, Amos, Turner, Jones, and Lowry. It includes cutting Cobb, Crosby and Lewis.

They could create additional funds by outright releasing Z and Preston instead but I'm not sure exactly how much.

[call_me_ishmael]

No, the article didn't include the math but this includes converting salaries to signing bonuses for both Smiths, bakhtiari, Clark, Amos, Turner, Jones, and Lowry. It includes cutting Cobb, Crosby and Lewis.

They could create additional funds by outright releasing Z and Preston instead but I'm not sure exactly how much.

Can you paste the article? You subscribe to JSO? Good on you. Aren't you in Illinois IIRC?

[Bossman641]

Can you paste the article? You subscribe to JSO? Good on you. Aren't you in Illinois IIRC?

From IL, then was in Austin TX for about 7 years, in Charlotte NC now.

The article is in the Trash......

[bobblehead]

Sigh, we were doing so good too.

You have definitely gone off the rails on this one. he did not say anything politcal. Rodgers has said everyone is out too get him so it kept it pretty clean, something you and all your playmates are not able to do it seems.

Now you attacking him after making a really good post what’s up with that? Also you seem to be trying to control what the situation is here that’s not what you’re trying to do correct? Because that would be my thing to do wouldn’t you agree? As far as HH goes he gets to do what he wants because I say so. Is me doing whatever not OK with you?

Ya know what, I'll just leave it at that. I've always said its absolutely your site and you can do whatever you want. Perks of being the guy who pays the bills and put in the work. My original reply to this was that if you think his post (or at least that part of it) wasn't political, then I should have free reign to respond to why Rodgers is simply stating facts.

A couple weeks ago I bitched because the NFL was sidelining guys for a virus that to date had killed exactly one person. That was a fact and you lit me up. My bitch was that the packers hadn't had an outbreak, but we probably would in the playoffs. To be honest, I meant nothing political by it, just was frustrated that I thought it would fuck us in the playoffs. I get why you didn't want me posting it because someone would be triggered into refuting the deadliness of the newest strain. But if you think saying that Rodgers is crazy and he is spouting conspiracy theories isn't "political" or at a minimum something you don't want me responding to your as crazy as....well, Rodgers I guess.

Hell, its the offseason. I guess I can be done with it all for a few months.

[Joemailman]

With Tonyan coming off a serious injury and MVS playing The Invisible Man after he came back from injury, then getting injured again, any chance these two sign a one-year "prove it" deal?

Tonyan might have to because he won't be recovered when FA starts. A cheap 1 year deal with lots of achievable incentives might be the way to go.

With MVS, hard to know because we don't know how serious the back injury is. If it requires surgery, he could be in the same boat as Tonyan.

[Sparkey]

If MVS had a back injury, might as well let him walk. Honestly, the best ability any player can have is Availability.

MVS is also to that point where he is what he is. He has teased enough without ever taking that step forward we all wait for.

[NewsBruin]

I don't want to sound cold about this, but every year, I've waited for the complementary WRs to have their breakout season, and every final cutdown day, I'm surprised they're all still on the roster

I feel like WR is a position that's just been flush in all rounds of the past five years' drafts and most draftees should just turn out okay with pro-quality coaching.

[Bretsky]

Every year we pimp somebody lacking the skill to breakout .........this is his year...etc etc etc

Need Talent there

[run pMc]

Every year we pimp somebody lacking the skill to breakout .........this is his year...etc etc etc

Need Talent there

Lazard passed him on the depth chart. MVS fills a role as deep threat and blocks his ass off, but his hands have never been great and he missed 6 regular season games this year and was hurt in others this/last year.
I wonder if there's a burner they could find in the draft with better hands to do the same things he does. (younger, healthier, cheaper, better?)