Tyreek Hill?

[George Cumby]

Anyone?

I think it's worth thinking about.

[Teamcheez1]

Hill wants to be another high priced receiver. We already spent the Davante money on other positions. Keep the draft choices in a receiver rich draft and sign a veteran free agent.

I would love to have Hill on our team, but the price is too high.

[NewsBruin]

I have no idea what our cap situation looks like.

We have a surplus of draft picks now, but like with Davante, most trades are about compensation to the team and more compensation to the player. Crappy teams like the Jets and Fins would have a draft-pick advantage over perennial playoff teams like us. We have picks to overpay to a cross-conference team, but do we have the cap room; we've already set up a few deals with void years to put the 2022 season on the Installment Plan.

I saw NY Jets were an interested team, and that would be a unique hell for Cheetah10. It reminds me of Leveon Bell getting traded to the Meadowlands and dropping off the relevance map for the rest of his career.

And let me close with the thought that NYJ would be a good target to fleece undervalued prototype WRs from, if they're not mentally checked-out and if we had cap space for them.

[Joemailman]

The reason Hill is on the trading block is that the Chiefs and Hill have not been able to agree on an extension. Question is whether Packers could fit him in under the cap now that they have signed Douglas, Reed and Tonyan, and whether they could agree to an extension. You don't want to give up a high pick or two to rent a player for 1 year.

Edit: MVS is meeting with Chiefs today.

[Joemailman]

Adam Schefter:


Chiefs are trading six-time Pro-Bowl WR Tyreek Hill to the Miami Dolphins for five draft picks: a 2022 1st-round pick (No. 29), a 2nd-round pick (No. 50) and a 4th-round pick, as well as 4th- and 6th-round picks in the 2023 draft, sources tell ESPN.

[NewsBruin]

Fins have cap space. Sure, why not?

[call_me_ishmael]

Wow, he got a lot more than Devante yielded. He is a good player because he is so fast but no way would I pay that especially when you don't have a QB.

He is a good player but a terrible person. I personally wouldn't add a player like this period, and would only consider a better human version of this player/contract combo if my team was right there and needed one extra boost.

Dolphins will not win anything over the next four years so what is the point?

[run pMc]

Trading a lot of draft capital for the privilege of signing a player to a market value contract is not smart as a general rule, and this especially true if that player wants Top 5 money and is approaching 30.
(Caveat: Franchise QBs. A top 5-7 QB is a rare commodity and far more valuable than a WR)

Chiefs got the better of that deal. Hill will do fine for himself in sunny Miami since he'll get paid a lot of money and he already has a ring. I'm skeptical his speed will keep and think he'll eventually get cut and Miami could regret losing those picks. Agree the QB situation is not great and maybe signing Hill is to load up for the next QB.
Would make sense for KC to sign MVS as a deep threat to replace Hill, although I think Hill does a LOT more and is a playmaker that Mahomes will really miss.

[texaspackerbacker]

At that price, better Miami than us. With Tua at QB, the Dolphins still aren't going anywhere.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Wow, he got a lot more than Devante yielded. He is a good player because he is so fast but no way would I pay that especially when you don't have a QB.

He is a good player but a terrible person. I personally wouldn't add a player like this period, and would only consider a better human version of this player/contract combo if my team was right there and needed one extra boost.

Not a whole lot more. The difference in the 22nd Pick instead of the 29th pick is more than a 4th round pick. The deals are actually pretty comparable.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Trading a lot of draft capital for the privilege of signing a player to a market value contract is not smart as a general rule, and this especially true if that player wants Top 5 money and is approaching 30.
(Caveat: Franchise QBs. A top 5-7 QB is a rare commodity and far more valuable than a WR)

Chiefs got the better of that deal. Hill will do fine for himself in sunny Miami since he'll get paid a lot of money and he already has a ring. I'm skeptical his speed will keep and think he'll eventually get cut and Miami could regret losing those picks. Agree the QB situation is not great and maybe signing Hill is to load up for the next QB.
Would make sense for KC to sign MVS as a deep threat to replace Hill, although I think Hill does a LOT more and is a playmaker that Mahomes will really miss.

Exactly. Why would we trade Davante for the reasons you said—only to make a similar trade in the opposite direction for Tyreek. Made no sense.

[bobblehead]

I've got a interesting question, not directly to Hill, who we all think will regress with Tua.

What happens if Devante slips backwards and MVS breaks out? Do we prove that Rodgers was staring Devante down too much?

[run pMc]

I think Davante will get his - Carr threw to him a lot in college, and Adams has only improved since then.
I think they are in a tough division and making the playoffs will be tough, but it seems like a (good) chance at a ring wasn't his top priority.

Finally, I think MVS will do about what he did in GB - he's a deep threat and Mahomes will find him. Losing Hill hurts that offense a LOT but they still have Kelce and other weapons, MVS included.

[texaspackerbacker]

I've got a interesting question, not directly to Hill, who we all think will regress with Tua.

What happens if Devante slips backwards and MVS breaks out? Do we prove that Rodgers was staring Devante down too much?

Not really. It would show that Rodgers made Davante, not the other way around ....... and also that maybe MVS was better than people gave him credit for.

[bobblehead]

Not really. It would show that Rodgers made Davante, not the other way around ....... and also that maybe MVS was better than people gave him credit for.

People other than Rodgers you mean? I have been on the MVS cheering squad for 2 years, but he wasn't worth what he got.

[texaspackerbacker]

I guess that's about where I am too. I've always been glad we had him, and I was hoping we'd keep him, but at that price, I can certainly see how the powers that be wouldn't go that high. I still think KC is gonna be glad they signed him.

[Fritz]

I think Davante will get his - Carr threw to him a lot in college, and Adams has only improved since then.
I think they are in a tough division and making the playoffs will be tough, but it seems like a (good) chance at a ring wasn't his top priority.

Finally, I think MVS will do about what he did in GB - he's a deep threat and Mahomes will find him, and MVS will drop a few of those sure-touchdown bombs. Doh! Losing Hill hurts that offense a LOT but they still have Kelce and other weapons, MVS included.

Just wanted to add that. The guy drove me nuts that way, though he seemed to be improving a bit before he got hurt. And got hurt again.

[Joemailman]

Dropped passes are frustrating, but overrated. Every year, most of the players with the most dropped passes are among the NFL's best receivers. https://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

Guys who have trouble getting open don't have a lot of dropped passes.

[Fritz]

Dropped passes are frustrating, but overrated. Every year, most of the players with the most dropped passes are among the NFL's best receivers. https://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

Guys who have trouble getting open don't have a lot of dropped passes.

Ah, but if you're targeted so much more because you're one of the best means that while you may drop more, your catch rate will very likely be higher than someone who doesn't get as many targets.

And some guys who get the ball thrown to them while covered make catches - contested catches. Besides that, if a guy doesn't get open very well, sure, he won't get as many throws, but there are other receivers out there to target. If a guy gets open but drops the damn ball, that's just a missed opportunity.

When Deguara dropped that pass over the middle in the first half, that about killed the Packers' chances to really put SF in a hole the defense wouldn't have let them out of. That killed the Packers.

[Joemailman]

Ah, but if you're targeted so much more because you're one of the best means that while you may drop more, your catch rate will very likely be higher than someone who doesn't get as many targets.

And some guys who get the ball thrown to them while covered make catches - contested catches. Besides that, if a guy doesn't get open very well, sure, he won't get as many throws, but there are other receivers out there to target. If a guy gets open but drops the damn ball, that's just a missed opportunity.

When Deguara dropped that pass over the middle in the first half, that about killed the Packers' chances to really put SF in a hole the defense wouldn't have let them out of. That killed the Packers.

A receiver running a bad route, or a QB making a bad read can have the same effect as a dropped pass. It's just not as glaringly obvious to the masses watching on TV as a dropped pass.

[Fritz]

A receiver running a bad route, or a QB making a bad read can have the same effect as a dropped pass. It's just not as glaringly obvious to the masses watching on TV as a dropped pass.

Maybe I'm not being clear - the glaring obviousness of a receiver dropping a touchdown pass is what's madening. So maybe we don't disagree; I just see the drop as more irksome.

[run pMc]

Agree it's about catch rate (or drop rate) not # of drops. A bad throw can also be a real buzzkill, but Rodgers is generally a very accurate thrower so it's unusual (it does happen, the SF game he was off most of the game). Really tough to see a play work as designed and beat the coverage with the throw on target only to have a receiver drop it -- can be the difference in the game if not a temporary gut punch and cause for loss of trust.

MVS had very iffy hands and improved there but he can't beat press coverage very well and he's not good in contested catch situations. He's a speed guy and ideally suited for deep routes; he's basically a #3WR used to take the top off a defense and let the star receivers have room to work. He'll fill that role for KC and do fine; but he's not going to replace Tyreek Hill. I expect KC to draft a WR to help do that, plus they have Kelce.

Kinda makes me wonder what they think of Mecole Hardman -- seems like he could do what MVS does just fine.

[Guiness]

[QUOTE=HarveyWallbangers;1113048]Exactly. Why would we trade Davante for the reasons you said

[bobblehead]

Agree it's about catch rate (or drop rate) not # of drops. A bad throw can also be a real buzzkill, but Rodgers is generally a very accurate thrower so it's unusual (it does happen, the SF game he was off most of the game). Really tough to see a play work as designed and beat the coverage with the throw on target only to have a receiver drop it -- can be the difference in the game if not a temporary gut punch and cause for loss of trust.

MVS had very iffy hands and improved there but he can't beat press coverage very well and he's not good in contested catch situations. He's a speed guy and ideally suited for deep routes; he's basically a #3WR used to take the top off a defense and let the star receivers have room to work. He'll fill that role for KC and do fine; but he's not going to replace Tyreek Hill. I expect KC to draft a WR to help do that, plus they have Kelce.

Kinda makes me wonder what they think of Mecole Hardman -- seems like he could do what MVS does just fine.

My biggest fear is that MVS is sort of like a Casey Heyward. A guy who flashed it, improved his game, but was hurt. A guy who seems right on the precipice of putting it all together right when we lose him. However, the $10 mil MVS got is a bit stiff. Heyward should have been retained, and MVS at maybe 25% less should have been retained (could we have extended him late last year for 7.5?)

[bobblehead]

Oh, and the reason I clicked on this thread. Hill is the first cap victim of paying a QB outrageous money. KC will lose a player each year they covet each year.

They however were smart as well and recovered some good draft capital for him by moving him before having to pay him. I wonder if Gutes will have the stomach to do another Adams type move next offseason.

[Joemailman]

Oh, and the reason I clicked on this thread. Hill is the first cap victim of paying a QB outrageous money. KC will lose a player each year they covet each year.

They however were smart as well and recovered some good draft capital for him by moving him before having to pay him. I wonder if Gutes will have the stomach to do another Adams type move next offseason.

Aaron Jones has a cap hit of 20 million next year. Packers would save 16M on the cap by trading him. 10M by cutting him.

If Bakhtiari can not return to previous form, Packers would save 6M on the cap by cutting or trading Bakhtiari. It would however create 23M of dead cap.

[texaspackerbacker]

I agree about the fear of MVS improving a lot and regretting losing him. 25% less - about $7.5 million a year for him would have been a good signing for the Packers.

I don't agree that the Chiefs lost Tyreek Hill because of the cap. Without knowing their exact cap number now and before he left, what they've done since - signing MVS and JSS (Juju) says they had the cap money. Will they be better off or worse off the way they are now? Time will tell, same as it will for the Packers without Adams and with a good FA WR or two and the two high draft picks they got in the trade.

It shouldn't be necessary for Gutekunst to do whatever kind of deal you're talking about next year, as it's very doubtful an Adams-like superstar will demand or ask to be traded to his hometown team.

Joe, I think it's a little early to talk about next year's cap, but Aaron Jones, assuming he's still good, could be extended and restructured down to well under half of that $20 million - or cut if somehow he ain't good. Probably something similar with Bakhtiari.

[run pMc]

My biggest fear is that MVS is sort of like a Casey Heyward. A guy who flashed it, improved his game, but was hurt. A guy who seems right on the precipice of putting it all together right when we lose him. However, the $10 mil MVS got is a bit stiff. Heyward should have been retained, and MVS at maybe 25% less should have been retained (could we have extended him late last year for 7.5?)

I'm not worried about it.
I think KC might find a few new ways to use him, but in general MLF put him in a role where he could maximize his skills. I think he's maxed out at this point -- he'll turn 28 this season, and he's a speed guy - who aside from that and blocking - doesn't add a lot else. I certainly wouldn't call him a WR1 or a complete receiver, and he still has a long way to go were that to happen (it won't). He is what he is: a one-trick pony with a pretty good trick. Having deep speed at his size does have value for affecting the defense. However, I'm not losing sleep over him taking his 2 rec for 40 yards per game (and a 50% catch rate) with him... I think you can find a cheaper, younger burner in this draft to run his 9 routes and occupy the safety enough to open an underneath route.

Seems like a good dude and I wish him well - good for him getting paid. I'd heard GB offered him something like a 1year deal worth about $7M, so the years and money KC offered were much better. Playing for Andy Reid and with Mahomes couldn't have hurt either.

Heyward was miscast and Capers didn't use him properly IMO which was an issue, and he had injuries. He was a year younger than MVS when he left, although I don't think that's a huge difference. They had drafted Randall and Rollins that year and they teased enough to make Heyward expendable.

[Fritz]

I think Micah Hyde was the player who was really miscast. He plays safety now and is really good. The Pack used him as a corner.

But no matter what position, he dropped what would've been a game-clinching interception in a playoff game when he was here. And the Packers went on to lose. So I won't forget that.

[run pMc]

I think Micah Hyde was the player who was really miscast. He plays safety now and is really good. The Pack used him as a corner.

But no matter what position, he dropped what would've been a game-clinching interception in a playoff game when he was here. And the Packers went on to lose. So I won't forget that.

I missed the Micah Hyde as safety thing too, mostly because Iowa played him at CB where he was good and tried him some at S where he was atrocious. I assumed that would carry into the pros. In hindsight, I suspect scheme fit matters and had a lot to do with it - I wouldn't want Micah and his 4.6 40 speed as a single high safety, for example. He has good instincts and good hands, so playing him more zone coverages made sense to me. Plus he could return punts.

For what BUF offered him and where GB was with their cap and FA at the time, he wasn't going to get that contract for the Packers. I remembered thinking he was a useful player for them, but not that sad he left. Good for him in finding success.

I am highly skeptical MVS will find that level of success. I think MVS will be for KC what he was for GB: a deep threat #2 or 3 WR that tops out with 6-700 yards and a bunch of long TDs.

[Guiness]

My biggest fear is that MVS is sort of like a Casey Heyward. A guy who flashed it, improved his game, but was hurt. A guy who seems right on the precipice of putting it all together right when we lose him. However, the $10 mil MVS got is a bit stiff. Heyward should have been retained, and MVS at maybe 25% less should have been retained (could we have extended him late last year for 7.5?)

See, this is how I remember CH as well but looking at his Wikipedia page, seems it wasn't so. He was active all 16 games his last two seasons with the Pack, and had his best season his last year with them. His injury was his sophomore season. In fact, his last year with the team
Hayward led all Packers' cornerbacks in tackles and with 908 snaps on defense

I think the coaching staff thought they had up and coming players in Rollins and Randall, that didn't work out.

[call_me_ishmael]

Exactly. They really screwed that one up. What did they let him and Micah Hyde go? It's okay in hindsight but what a bad move at that time. Rollins and Randall were two very bad picks in hindsight. It's rare for the Packers to do so poorly.

[Fritz]

I wonder when Ted picked Rollins if the scouts all looked at each other and said "Whuuut?" Maybe Ted thought it was the seventh round instead of the second.

[bobblehead]

I'm not worried about it.
I think KC might find a few new ways to use him, but in general MLF put him in a role where he could maximize his skills. I think he's maxed out at this point -- he'll turn 28 this season, and he's a speed guy - who aside from that and blocking - doesn't add a lot else. I certainly wouldn't call him a WR1 or a complete receiver, and he still has a long way to go were that to happen (it won't). He is what he is: a one-trick pony with a pretty good trick. Having deep speed at his size does have value for affecting the defense. However, I'm not losing sleep over him taking his 2 rec for 40 yards per game (and a 50% catch rate) with him... I think you can find a cheaper, younger burner in this draft to run his 9 routes and occupy the safety enough to open an underneath route.

Seems like a good dude and I wish him well - good for him getting paid. I'd heard GB offered him something like a 1year deal worth about $7M, so the years and money KC offered were much better. Playing for Andy Reid and with Mahomes couldn't have hurt either.

Heyward was miscast and Capers didn't use him properly IMO which was an issue, and he had injuries. He was a year younger than MVS when he left, although I don't think that's a huge difference. They had drafted Randall and Rollins that year and they teased enough to make Heyward expendable.

MVS is much more than a 1 trick pony at this point. Health is the only real issue. I concede he isn't a #1, but I do think he is a legit #2 at this point. I keep going back to the NFCC against TB where he was the best WR on the field. He ran and caught every route that game and when TB decided to mug Adams and take him away, MVS was the reason we nearly came back. If he is healthy, and playing with Maholmes I think 1k is a lock.

[bobblehead]

I think Micah Hyde was the player who was really miscast. He plays safety now and is really good. The Pack used him as a corner.

But no matter what position, he dropped what would've been a game-clinching interception in a playoff game when he was here. And the Packers went on to lose. So I won't forget that.

And I agree 100%. When Hyde was a rookie I said he was a safety. I could dig up some really old posts to prove it if I were motivated (as I could dig up my hype on Allen Babre so take it with a grain of salt).

[bobblehead]

See, this is how I remember CH as well but looking at his Wikipedia page, seems it wasn't so. He was active all 16 games his last two seasons with the Pack, and had his best season his last year with them. His injury was his sophomore season. In fact, his last year with the team

I think the coaching staff thought they had up and coming players in Rollins and Randall, that didn't work out.

He played, but he wasn't "healthy" and therefor wasn't as good as he could have been. Guys playing through injury tend to get punished even more than guys who don't play through when it comes to FA. Bad tape is remembered and it isn't excused for injury.