2022 Second Round Pick, #34, Christian Watson Discussion Thread

[bobblehead]

Offensive Rookie of the Month - nice.
Watson is one of the bright spots as we watch the season slide away. I'd actually love to see them play all 3 rookie WRs together to see what they have.
Watson/Doubs could be foundational players on offense.

We are going to get a glimpse of the future yet. Love with the rookie WRs. Our OL is young and talented. Bak probably is entering his final 3 years of being effective, but then again, OL tend to last longer so maybe its more like 5. The rest are all looking at a decade together. If Watson is anywhere near legit as he seems and Doubs improves even a little we have our 1/2 for a decade. We could really use a marquee TE. Still kind of wish we had traded for Hockenson and fucked the Vikes, but hopefully there are other opportunities.

On D, I still think the pieces are there, but even if we keep Smith and Amos, they are nearing decline age. Savage fucking blows, so the future at S is dark. Sadly, despite all the draft capital and money, our D (which I liked coming into this year) has some real questions going forward, and not just the DC.

[texaspackerbacker]

Seau, Jovan Belcher, Aaron Hernandez…

There are sooo many it’s hard to even recall without help from internet searches. Blaming drugs for cte… ������*♂️

Seau maybe - a rare exception. Hernandez was probably just a lifelong thug. Belcher I haven't even heard of.

Blaming drugs? That would be Jim McMahon and Lyle Alzado, PEDs for the latter.

[texaspackerbacker]

Back to the positive side hahahaha, Yes to a glimpse of the future with the rookie WRs. I remain convinced, though, that future is with Rodgers at QB. We may see some of Love this season if/when we get eliminated mathematically, but I'm thinking all that does is enhance his trade value or maybe give him a shot in the more distant future with the Packers - if he actually performs as good as he did last week.

Watson is the real deal - as I have always said. Hopefully Doubs and maybe Toure too.

[run pMc]

We are going to get a glimpse of the future yet. Love with the rookie WRs. Our OL is young and talented. Bak probably is entering his final 3 years of being effective, but then again, OL tend to last longer so maybe its more like 5. The rest are all looking at a decade together. If Watson is anywhere near legit as he seems and Doubs improves even a little we have our 1/2 for a decade. We could really use a marquee TE. Still kind of wish we had traded for Hockenson and fucked the Vikes, but hopefully there are other opportunities.

On D, I still think the pieces are there, but even if we keep Smith and Amos, they are nearing decline age. Savage fucking blows, so the future at S is dark. Sadly, despite all the draft capital and money, our D (which I liked coming into this year) has some real questions going forward, and not just the DC.

Tom Silverstein reported that they did look into Hockenson but decided against it, likely because of injury concerns. Agree he would have been a nice addition if he could stay healthy. Maybe the DET turf monster was killing him.

Amos has not looked very good this year, and the fact that they put void years vs. extending him is telling. I think they will be rebooting at safety. It sucks they used the 5th year option on Savage -- he looks bad and will cost $8-9M guaranteed against the cap -- money I'd rather see them use to keep Aaron Jones or extend Jenkins.

It's possible the team has completely tuned out Barry, or that Savage is making "business decisions". I don't know. A change at DC is needed and might help revitalize a defense that has talent. I'm not optimistic anymore though -- they've cycled thru a number of DCs and they still can't get off the field on 3rd down, or out of the 20's in DVOA.

Watson and Doubs are bright spots -- I think the 2022 draft is looking promising if they can get players healthy. Watson, Doubs, Tom, Enagbare and Toure all look like decent picks. Walker and Wyatt are maybes (not holding out much hope they will be better than league average, but you never know). They need another good class to elevate them. Good players on cheap contracts is how you win.
(I think they'll need to draft another WR and a TE. Sammy Watkins and Tyler Davis can go.)

[bobblehead]

Seau maybe - a rare exception. Hernandez was probably just a lifelong thug. Belcher I haven't even heard of.

Blaming drugs? That would be Jim McMahon and Lyle Alzado, PEDs for the latter.

Lyle Alzado got cancer. HgH and/or steroids are not really linked to cancer. HgH does cause it to spread more rapidly if it goes undiagnosed however. That lie has been told by the media to discourage use of steroids forever. Abuse of roids is bad, but modest use actually improves health profiles....especially if it inspires one to have a healthier diet so as to maximize their physique.

[RashanGary]

Watson clocked at 21.72mph, tying the fastest speed by a WR this season (Desean Jackson.)

[red]

Watson clocked at 21.72mph, tying the fastest speed by a WR this season (Desean Jackson.)

on that end around where it looked like he was running in slow mo?

just insane

[Joemailman]

He flies!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjKnJcjWAAEeV5t?format=jpg&name=large

[texaspackerbacker]

As great as Watson has been, there is room for improvement. He needs to go after contested catches a little better. He got pretty much mugged with no PI calls especially early in the game. Ideally he can fight off that sort of thing better. I think over time, he will be a great possession receiver too mainly because they have to play off of him a lot.

Players have hurt themselves with that weird flying tumbling celebration. He needs to rein that in a little bit - act like he's been there before, like eight times in four games now hahahaha.

[call_me_ishmael]

It is really weird watching Watson because he doesn't really look that fast. To me, it's kind of weird because he is obviously extremely fast but he doesn't look the part like Randy Moss did for example. I think few would argue that Randy doesn't look like he's moving substantially faster even though he's maybe a tick or two faster at the most.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxTnVAARhTA

[bobblehead]

on that end around where it looked like he was running in slow mo?

just insane

Thats what kills me. He doesn't LOOK like he is flying, but since he is pulling away from everyone I guess he really is that fast.....btw, what is desean Jackson now, like 48 years old?

[RashanGary]

How many 6-4 guys can do a backflip with pads on? I haven’t seen it very often.

[hoosier]

Favre, who was never smart, can barely string together a coherent sentence.

The last time I heard Steve Young on the radio he, very obviously, has suffered cognitive decline.

But you're just a walking, talking Confirmation Bias; you see and hear only what you want to and are impervious to facts, reason and understanding. Any of your epically wrong posts on what happens on the football field are proof positive of this.

If we didn't know better, we might suspect that Tex played himself a little Friday night lights and college ball . . . .

[texaspackerbacker]

It's funny how the shitheads in the other part of the forum are generally also the shitheads in this part. I was nothing more than a lame-assed O Lineman in junior high. If I ever got a concussion, I can't remember it hahahahaha. It woulda had to have been from slipping off the bench.

[RashanGary]

Watson clocked at 21.72mph, tying the fastest speed by a WR this season (Desean Jackson.)

Romeo Doubs clocked 21.25 at the senior bowl. Both have speed.

[RashanGary]

What you like about Watsons speed is he’s hit 20mph on 6 of his 30 touches so far (20%.) So it’s showing up in actual games. It doesn’t take him long to get to full speed, so it shows up in games a lot more than a guy who needs time to build up speed. It’s more like Tyreek Hill application than MVS application.

[RashanGary]

Christian Watson’s dad said 9 has been timed 4.21 in the 40. Said he’s running away from NFL DBs because he’s faster than 4.38.

[Joemailman]

Christian Watson’s dad said 9 has been timed 4.21 in the 40. Said he’s running away from NFL DBs because he’s faster than 4.38.

I agree with this. Last spring I was looking at MVS' 10/20/40 times at the combine (1.55/2.58/4.37) compared to Watson's (1.45/2.45/4.36). The conclusion I came to was that Watson was quicker but that MVS' top speed must be better because his 20-40 time was 1.79 vs Watsons 1.91. I no longer believe MVS' top speed beats Watson. Maybe Watson coasted the last 20. :-D

[Joemailman]

Jacob Morley
@JacobMorley
Since week 9

Christian Watson's passer rating when targeted:

- 142.2
- 1st in the NFL.

(Min 25 targets)

[RashanGary]

I agree with this. Last spring I was looking at MVS' 10/20/40 times at the combine (1.55/2.58/4.37) compared to Watson's (1.45/2.45/4.36). The conclusion I came to was that Watson was quicker but that MVS' top speed must be better because his 20-40 time was 1.79 vs Watsons 1.91. I no longer believe MVS' top speed beats Watson. Maybe Watson coasted the last 20. :-D

MVS has clocked over 22MPH in the NFL. So he did show slightly faster top speed at his fastest. Watson is getting over 20MPH on 20% of his touches. He gets to speed much faster and not always on a straight line, and it’s translating to being faster on the field.

And there’s a chance that Watson is just faster than that 4.38 too, like his dad said. And has better get off and faster deep speed.

He plays very fast. It shows up in the field of play.

[bobblehead]

MVS has clocked over 22MPH in the NFL. So he did show slightly faster top speed at his fastest. Watson is getting over 20MPH on 20% of his touches. He gets to speed much faster and not always on a straight line, and it’s translating to being faster on the field.

And there’s a chance that Watson is just faster than that 4.38 too, like his dad said. And has better get off and faster deep speed.

He plays very fast. It shows up in the field of play.

Here's the thing. If you run even a 4.4, once you have a step on the D it takes even a 4.3 guy 20 yards to catch you. So If Watson is fast enough in the 10 to GET that step he is almost impossible to run down.

I have always mocked people who "worship at the altar of the 40". The 10 yard split is easily the most important stat in football. For skill positions the 3 cone and short shuttle are also just as important. For "bigs" the explosion drills matter more. Who wins coming out of their stance wins the down.

[Joemailman]

Watson's speed is what everyone is talking about, which is understanable. But his TD reception was just as impressive. 4th and 4 and he was initially covered, but manages to find an open spot in the end zone where Rodgers could get the ball to him. Something you don't see from rookies a lot. https://twitter.com/i/status/1599826855988977665

[Joemailman]

New Christian Watson Apology Form

https://i-cdn.embed.ly/1/display?key=fd92ebbc52fc43fb98f69e50e7893c13&url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Friei5108044a1.png

[George Cumby]

Thanks, Joe.

Welp.

This is the burner specimen who can take the top off of defenses that I wanted.

Ahem.

[run pMc]

Here's the thing. If you run even a 4.4, once you have a step on the D it takes even a 4.3 guy 20 yards to catch you. So If Watson is fast enough in the 10 to GET that step he is almost impossible to run down.

I have always mocked people who "worship at the altar of the 40". The 10 yard split is easily the most important stat in football. For skill positions the 3 cone and short shuttle are also just as important. For "bigs" the explosion drills matter more. Who wins coming out of their stance wins the down.

I've heard most scouts now actually look at the flying 20 more than the full 40 to get a sense of a player's speed.
I still think the 10 yd is important though - to me it shows burst and also how fast you can run up on a CB's toes and possibly get them off their leverage. Explosion drills are good for burst/acceleration as well. Agree on the agility drills, I think they matter for separating and route running and are especially important for slot receivers.

Watson's combine numbers were pretty crazy, especially given his size. It's tough to have good 10yd split and agility numbers at his size.

[MadtownPacker]

Jacob Morley
@JacobMorley
Since week 9

Christian Watson's passer rating when targeted:

- 142.2
- 1st in the NFL.

(Min 25 targets)
This needs to be his theme song:


https://youtu.be/1ZVh69W6X5s

[MadtownPacker]

Just when I didn’t give a fuck about the season Watson goes and makes me want to see every game again. He has been electric and just like several have said nothing has been close since rookie moss. The Love teaser half has me hopeful for the next couple of years.

[Funkytown]

Just when I didn’t give a fuck about the season Watson goes and makes me want to see every game again. He has been electric and just like several have said nothing has been close since rookie moss. The Love teaser half has me hopeful for the next couple of years.

So, you don't want Watson's recent success to tempt Rodgers to return?

P.S. Can you give me permissions to edit my profile and whatnot?

[Sparkey]

https://youtu.be/TmDRs1LbrlU

This is the vid that got me all fired up about his ability.

[Tony Oday]

I would love to see more slants and crosses from Watson in this offense

[texaspackerbacker]

Absolutely, plus one to that.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

New Christian Watson Apology Form

https://i-cdn.embed.ly/1/display?key=fd92ebbc52fc43fb98f69e50e7893c13&url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Friei5108044a1.png

Watson won’t even win OROY, so the HOF talk is premature. If a WR is gonna win OROY, it’s gonna be Chris Olave. Olave has been putting up nice numbers, numbers that are a combination of talent and availability - unlike the soft and fragile guy Green Bay drafted in the 2nd round.

I ain’t seen this big of a hard-on for a rookie since the Claymaker, the cocky kid from Southern Cal whom I jotted down on my ingenious “My Mastery Mockery of a Draft.” Like Watson, Claymaker missed most of his rookie training camp with injury. Claymaker didn’t start showing up til the infamous “Thanks Ted” game where, instead of tackling Adrian Peterson, the Claymaker opted to take away the rock - which he successfully did for 6.

Uncool Pack fans have a thing for soft and fragile players. :)

[Anti-Polar Bear]

And like when a butterfly flaps its wings and causes chaos, C-Wat’s abominable drop on the very first play from scrimmage pretty much caused this chaotic season. Then the guy went all soft and fragile and didn’t show up again til the season has already been fucked.

Charles Barkley calls Watson’s pretty stats as of late “garbage stats.”

[Anti-Polar Bear]

That being said, I am starting to like this guy on Madden. Speed should be higher than 94.

[sharpe1027]

Uncool Pack fans have a thing for soft and fragile players. :)

This is a strawman argument. Nobody is high on him because he was hurt. If he did the same thing without any injuries people would be even more excited.

Turn this around and look at it the other way. If you were to write off every player that was injured early in their career, I bet you'd miss a lot of really great players

[MadtownPacker]

And like when a butterfly flaps its wings and causes chaos, C-Wat’s abominable drop on the very first play from scrimmage pretty much caused this chaotic season. Then the guy went all soft and fragile and didn’t show up again til the season has already been fucked.

Charles Barkley calls Watson’s pretty stats as of late “garbage stats.”
Soooo I had some friends in Wisconsin do some research on you. The information came back saying that game you shut Darren Charles in? You had already been eliminated from any kind of contention. Even worse you found out the night before he had stayed out late banging the girlfriend you had since Jr High. That’s why he was so tired. Is this the event that set you on the burger flipping path? Say it ain’t so, say it ain’t so… :sad:

[MadtownPacker]

So, you don't want Watson's recent success to tempt Rodgers to return?

P.S. Can you give me permissions to edit my profile and whatnot?The first questions makes me think you have never been here before. I started the Rodgers hate club.

The second questions make me wonder how you know to ask me…. You are set now. Give ‘em hell!

[Joemailman]

Bears trying to chase Christian Watson

https://media1.giphy.com/media/lTrbUqQJCif7NfbXoo/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e479cy23cw958wxxn259ja2qucm48t2 0aodpb6injx7&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[George Cumby]

I started the Rodgers hate club.
!

Mad is the OG Rodgers Hater.

[bobblehead]

So, you don't want Watson's recent success to tempt Rodgers to return?

P.S. Can you give me permissions to edit my profile and whatnot?

No way rookie. 50 quality posts before you get shit!! Just kidding. Of course that is up to mad, but welcome aboard. And thats a fair question for a first post. Better than people who come here to bitch.

[bobblehead]

https://youtu.be/TmDRs1LbrlU

This is the vid that got me all fired up about his ability.

Someone posted this way back when. I watched it and got excited....then he got hurt and I forgot his name.

[bobblehead]

Soooo I had some friends in Wisconsin do some research on you. The information came back saying that game you shut Darren Charles in? You had already been eliminated from any kind of contention. Even worse you found out the night before he had stayed out late banging the girlfriend you had since Jr High. That’s why he was so tired. Is this the event that set you on the burger flipping path? Say it ain’t so, say it ain’t so… :sad:

In fairness, APB is a cuck. He actually SENT his girlfriend over to Darren Charles. Maybe he even factored in that it would tire him out, but mainly it was the cuck thing.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I never had a girlfriend in high school.

White chicks wouldn’t date me cos I acted Black. Black chicks wouldn’t date me cos I wasn’t Black. Asian and Hispanic chicks mainly dated within their respective races back then.

Didn’t help that I devolved from downloading hot pics of Jennifer Love Hewitt to naked pics of Pamela Anderson to hardcore pics of Julia Ann.

Porn addiction ain’t no joke. It dulls the mind and fucks with one’s ability to develop intimate relationships.

[HarveyWallbangers]

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/next-gen-stats-watson-hit-top-speed-vs-bears


According to Next Gen Stats, Watson’s sprint vs. Chicago was the Packers’ second-fastest over the last six seasons. Marquez Valdes-Scantling hit 22.09 mph on his 75-yard touchdown at Minnesota last season. That was indoors on turf; Watson was on grass on a cold day in December.

[MadtownPacker]

He also had extra 30yards to get to that speed.

Watson just runs out of field. That’s really how is looks when he runs, like he is barely getting in gear and has to shift down in the end zone.

[Fosco33]

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/.amp/news/with-christian-watson-packers-winning-big-nfl-draft-trade-with-vikings

[bobblehead]

He also had extra 30yards to get to that speed.

Watson just runs out of field. That’s really how is looks when he runs, like he is barely getting in gear and has to shift down in the end zone.

It is freaky how he doesn't look like he is flying, but no one is catching him either.

[George Cumby]

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/.amp/news/with-christian-watson-packers-winning-big-nfl-draft-trade-with-vikings

Delicious!

[Funkytown]

The first questions makes me think you have never been here before. I started the Rodgers hate club.

The second questions make me wonder how you know to ask me…. You are set now. Give ‘em hell!

lol, when did you start the Rodgers hate club? I've popped in on various Packers communities over the years. I surprisingly found A LOT of objective Packers fans who weren't in love with Rodgers. That was always interesting to me, because from the outside looking in, most people just see "elite Aaron Rodgers". Well, until now of course. I've also popped into various Seahawks communities in recent years, and was incredibly surprised how many of them wanted to move on from Wilson. I thought they were nuts! Well, they were right. I was dead wrong. Whatever is happening in Denver is, ... wow. Maybe Rodgers and Hackett need each other? lol

Anyway, JABF sent me your way! He's a good dude who really speaks highly of your community. He told me to check the place out. Here I finally am! I wanted to make it over weeks ago, but I've been swamped with work, the site (Purple Pain), and traveling to Minnesota for the games. Sorry I didn't make it over until now.

[run pMc]

lol, when did you start the Rodgers hate club? I've popped in on various Packers communities over the years. I surprisingly found A LOT of objective Packers fans who weren't in love with Rodgers. That was always interesting to me, because from the outside looking in, most people just see "elite Aaron Rodgers". Well, until now of course. I've also popped into various Seahawks communities in recent years, and was incredibly surprised how many of them wanted to move on from Wilson. I thought they were nuts! Well, they were right. I was dead wrong. Whatever is happening in Denver is, ... wow. Maybe Rodgers and Hackett need each other? lol

Anyway, JABF sent me your way! He's a good dude who really speaks highly of your community. He told me to check the place out. Here I finally am! I wanted to make it over weeks ago, but I've been swamped with work, the site (Purple Pain), and traveling to Minnesota for the games. Sorry I didn't make it over until now.


Welcome.
There are definitely some "Aaron Godgers" types here, but I think generally posters try to be balanced and fair. Rodgers hasn't been good this year (compared to his career avg) and while there are mitigating factors (early OL issues, new WRs, no Davante Adams, injuries) his age and his contract extension -- and its effect on the cap -- are fertile ground for discussion. There's probably a thread somewhere dedicated to it, but it seems to bleed into every other thread as well. It's a QB driven league.

As for Watson, the trade to get him looks positive for GB now... it's wayyy premature to make any other judgements though. Booth could be a decent player but you worry about his health, and I believe Ingram is starting although some had character concerns about him and thought he was a reach in R2. Minnesota had taken a bit of a different approach with the new GM and I know they are heavy-analytics. Will be interesting to see how it plays out, but there's always an element of luck with draft picks. So far I like what I've seen of Watson.

[MadtownPacker]

lol, when did you start the Rodgers hate club? I've popped in on various Packers communities over the years. I surprisingly found A LOT of objective Packers fans who weren't in love with Rodgers. That was always interesting to me, because from the outside looking in, most people just see "elite Aaron Rodgers". Well, until now of course. I've also popped into various Seahawks communities in recent years, and was incredibly surprised how many of them wanted to move on from Wilson. I thought they were nuts! Well, they were right. I was dead wrong. Whatever is happening in Denver is, ... wow. Maybe Rodgers and Hackett need each other? lol

Anyway, JABF sent me your way! He's a good dude who really speaks highly of your community. He told me to check the place out. Here I finally am! I wanted to make it over weeks ago, but I've been swamped with work, the site (Purple Pain), and traveling to Minnesota for the games. Sorry I didn't make it over until now.My dislike for Rodgers is a strictly personal and has nothing to do with him as a player. I have called out his weak character and lack of leadership for the longest time. Even when he was having MVP seasons. Dont get me wrong, I have cheered him as the Packers QB and don't deny he has been great. But not always and not much anymore the way things are looking.

BTW - Promoting sites or really anything on here will get you banned.

[MadtownPacker]

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/.amp/news/with-christian-watson-packers-winning-big-nfl-draft-trade-with-vikingsAfter the years of moss torture it is only fitting.

[Joemailman]

JJ Zachariason
@LateRoundQB
Top-7 rookie wide receiver yards per route run leaders (minimum 50 targets) since 2011:

1. Odell Beckham
2. AJ Brown
3. Justin Jefferson
4. Ja'Marr Chase
5. Chris Olave
6. Tyreek Hill
7. Christian Watson

Pretty good company.

[George Cumby]

^ Good company, indeed.

[RashanGary]

I cant this year. You turned on the Gary tape and you saw knock back on ever snap, violent hands, a really good one arm stab to create an edge.

You turn on Watson and you see a clumsy pass catcher.

You turn on Walker and you see hesitation and false steps.

Its not the same this year. This year theyve been emboldened by the Gary pick and think they can draft bad ball players because theyre athletes. But the thing theyre missing is thats not what happened with Gary.

Just saying, he was the same guy in college. It was right there in his profile if you watched him play.

[run pMc]

He's smart enough to learn all the routes from day one and agile enough to execute them. I expect him to be the most productive receiver from the first regular season games.

Not so far. He's still got a chance to get better and be more productive, hopefully that happens.
Lots of talent, not much production outside of a few catches this year and a nice stretch last year starting against DAL.

I think he's a better athlete than football player but he's smart and can learn. He's not being used the best, MLF needs to scheme better and Love needs to not underthrow him. Right now, he's MVS.

[bobblehead]

So I'm starting to think that Gutes was actually in charge already during the last couple TT drafts. I had pointed out a shift from drafting ball players and improving their athleticism in the weight room vs. drafting athletes and hoping to turn them into ball players. In hindsight, TT was fading hard and Gutes "turned down" the offer to GM SF. Was he already the de facto GM?

Gary worked out because Mike Smith is the best OLB coach in existence. He turned 3rd rounders into 15 sack guys his entire career. He's gone now. Will Van Ness unlock his potential behind whoever the guy is now? Coaching matters, thats all I'm saying.

Walker actually hasn't been so bad. I honestly do think its the soft scheme we choose to run on D for oh, say 15 years now. MiLF went off in a presser about his 2-4 D saying his OLBs are DL in that scenario because a RB can't block Preston. True, but Preston is lined up on the edge. There are only 2 interior DL and they get double teamed and Najee walks in from the 4. No one HAD to block a guy lining up at the 7. He can't get inside fast enough. We line guys up 10 yards deep on 3rd and 7. If I'm wrong, then its totally on Gutes for drafting guys that are not succeeding on the field. In any event someone has to be accountable.

[call_me_ishmael]

Why on earth did they let that guy out the door? How foolish. I just feel like they gave up on their DC way too fast. He was a good coach. The results have been worse. What did they really accomplish?

[texaspackerbacker]

Not so far. He's still got a chance to get better and be more productive, hopefully that happens.
Lots of talent, not much production outside of a few catches this year and a nice stretch last year starting against DAL.

I think he's a better athlete than football player but he's smart and can learn. He's not being used the best, MLF needs to scheme better and Love needs to not underthrow him. Right now, he's MVS.

hahahaha I didn’t take you for one of those “truth squad” shitheads, run Pmc.

Yeah, I sorta got it wrong about Watson, but I still think he will be a major plus.
Pmc

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Watson is softer than a gay guy in a brothel full of women. More injury-prone than an overworked, 40 year old burger flipper. Every bit as fragile as a motherless polar bear cub. And Christine has the biggest vag not seen in cold, dark and dull Green Bay since The Claymaker.

Tank Elf Duke 9-11-22

The Mailman owes moi an apology. It’s only humbling if he does so in a thread in which he posted two Watson apology forms.

[bobblehead]

Why on earth did they let that guy out the door? How foolish. I just feel like they gave up on their DC way too fast. He was a good coach. The results have been worse. What did they really accomplish?

I'm guessing only. Didn't he leave when we hired Barry? Did he want that job and felt slighted?

[run pMc]

Why on earth did they let that guy out the door? How foolish. I just feel like they gave up on their DC way too fast. He was a good coach. The results have been worse. What did they really accomplish?

Are you saying we should have kept Pettine as DC?
Mike Smith is tied to the hip with Pettine; he'll go where Pettine goes. They go all the way back to Rex Ryan. I think Smith even played for them.

Smith is a good coach. Rebrovich seems...ok. LVN declared early for the draft, he's got a lot to learn yet.

As for Watson, I wonder if his hamstring is n't 100% and that's why they are using him they way they are. Gotta get him the ball in stride or in space and let him run.

[sharpe1027]

Are you saying we should have kept Pettine as DC?
Mike Smith is tied to the hip with Pettine; he'll go where Pettine goes. They go all the way back to Rex Ryan. I think Smith even played for them.

Smith is a good coach. Rebrovich seems...ok. LVN declared early for the draft, he's got a lot to learn yet.

As for Watson, I wonder if his hamstring is n't 100% and that's why they are using him they way they are. Gotta get him the ball in stride or in space and let him run.

Love has not hit many receivers in stride this year.

[bobblehead]

Are you saying we should have kept Pettine as DC?
Mike Smith is tied to the hip with Pettine; he'll go where Pettine goes. They go all the way back to Rex Ryan. I think Smith even played for them.

Smith is a good coach. Rebrovich seems...ok. LVN declared early for the draft, he's got a lot to learn yet.

As for Watson, I wonder if his hamstring is n't 100% and that's why they are using him they way they are. Gotta get him the ball in stride or in space and let him run.

He didn't come to GB with Pettine, he joined when MiLF arrived.

[Joemailman]

He didn't come to GB with Pettine, he joined when MiLF arrived.

True, but I suspect at the urging of Pettine. "Hey, I know a guy".

[bobblehead]

True, but I suspect at the urging of Pettine. "Hey, I know a guy".

Was Pettine with KC when Smith was churning out those OLBs that had all the sacks there?

[texaspackerbacker]

Am Iin the right place? The Christian Watson thread?

I strongly wanted them to draft Watson. I was glad when they did. And I'm NOT negative about him like some in here now. The guy has the potential to be great, and I think he will live up to that potential.

[Sparkey]

Great game by Watson. Going up and fighting for the ball, being aggressive and decisive on routes! Excellent footwork to get both feet in on the sideline catch. Hopefulyl the start of next year is not hamstring issues again. They could be the reason he started so slow each of the last two years.

[Joemailman]

Great game by Watson. Going up and fighting for the ball, being aggressive and decisive on routes! Excellent footwork to get both feet in on the sideline catch. Hopefulyl the start of next year is not hamstring issues again. They could be the reason he started so slow each of the last two years.

Just in general, I think being in and out of the lineup, in and out of practice has slowed his development.

[run pMc]

He's starting to move past "MVS 2.0" status.
He's not a WR1 though. Not yet.

I think getting him started early and also balancing the out the targets on offense isn't a terrible strategy for his confidence, which should be back now after the last few games. His hamstring looked like it was better also, earlier in the season he didn't look as fast as he does now.

At worst, he's an overdraft. He's not a bust and I don't understand why Packer fans were hating on him. The WR group would have benefitted from a vet in the room for sure, but it would have cost them developmental snaps which are starting to pay off.

[texaspackerbacker]

He hasn't needed to be WR1. Doubs, Wicks, and Reed have sort of over-performed and combined to fill that role or looking at it another way, Love has done a Rodgers-esque of spreading it around or looking at it in a negative way, Love can't throw it deep with enough consistency to take advantage of Watson's speed.

I pretty much agree with your assessment of him.

[RashanGary]

I think worst case he plays 8 years in the league (31 years old.) That’s when his explosiveness will go way down and his speed will drop off a bit too.

While he’s young, he does enough things well to play in the league and be an 800 yard guy. Maybe more once or twice.

He’s fast. He’s explosive. He’s a good blocker. He’s a good locker room guy. He’s smart, so as Love starts building more complexity with the more veteran offense, Watson will only get better. So he does a lot of things well.

He’s always going to be a guy who can clear a safety. Against man defense, he’s always going to be a guy who can fly across the field on long crossers and no one can keep up on those routes. In a dome where there is less wind, he can kinda track the ball too.

But, he’s not, has never been, and I don’t think ever will be a strong hands guy or good at tracking the ball outside. He’s been too consistently the same guy in college and the NFL and I don’t think those are traits we’re going to see go away. So he’ll always be limited and always be disappointing at times.

Better than MVS, but closer to MVS than Tyreek Hill.

Love’s contract is going to be top 5 QB money. Probably 49M per year. But that contract is going to average in the last year of his current deal so it’ll be 5 years 42M per year average.

With the quickly increasing salary cap, that will be very affordable. I think we can afford to keep Watson around on the middle of the road contract he’ll demand. That take the top off quality and the man beater speed and the blocking…. He’s a nice piece.

I don’t expect him to be great. If you’re looking for a reliable #1, Jayden Reed is that guy.

[texaspackerbacker]

Tyreek Hill is not the comparison. That would be Randy Moss or Calvin Johnson for Watson. Yeah, he obviously ain't there yet, but I think he potentially could be down the road.

I agree about Love's future status and salary, and I'm all for it.

[RashanGary]

Tyreek Hill is not the comparison. That would be Randy Moss or Calvin Johnson for Watson. Yeah, he obviously ain't there yet, but I think he potentially could be down the road.

I agree about Love's future status and salary, and I'm all for it.

Moss is one of the greatest players to ever play the game. I don’t even know if speed was his top trait. His top trait might have been how unstoppable he was at adjusting, getting position and then snagging the 50/50 ball. Watson will NEVER be even a poor man’s Randy Moss. That’s not who he is. It’s not.

[texaspackerbacker]

Oh, I wouldn't be so sure hahahaha. I didn't say he'd be as good as Moss, but he's the same kind of player, and it wouldn't surprise me if he came close.

[bobblehead]

He hasn't needed to be WR1. Doubs, Wicks, and Reed have sort of over-performed and combined to fill that role or looking at it another way, Love has done a Rodgers-esque of spreading it around or looking at it in a negative way, Love can't throw it deep with enough consistency to take advantage of Watson's speed.

I pretty much agree with your assessment of him.

Rodgers hasn't "spread the ball around" like Love is in about 8 years. He locks in on Adams, and when Adams was gone he sucked ass all year. More like spreading around like a YOUNG Rodgers did.

[bobblehead]

Moss is one of the greatest players to ever play the game. I don’t even know if speed was his top trait. His top trait might have been how unstoppable he was at adjusting, getting position and then snagging the 50/50 ball. Watson will NEVER be even a poor man’s Randy Moss. That’s not who he is. It’s not.

Moss was the fastest player in the league most years he played.

That said, Mike Evans is the best comp for Watson. Faster than Evans, but similar. I see a slew of 1k to 1200 yard seasons in his future, but never 90 catches.

[RashanGary]

Moss was the fastest player in the league most years he played.

That said, Mike Evans is the best comp for Watson. Faster than Evans, but similar. I see a slew of 1k to 1200 yard seasons in his future, but never 90 catches.

I’m going to go hard against this comp. Evans is surprisingly effective at getting early separation for a big guy. And he snags tight contested throws at a very high rate.

I see a body type comp. I could see Watson being about 215, maybe even 220 in his prime. But that’s where that comp ends. Watson is horrible on contested balls. And average to below at getting early separation.

With Watsons weaknesses, I don’t see him going over 1,100 EVER. He looks like a #2, #3 sort of splash guy who disappoints a lot of the time.

[texaspackerbacker]

Moss was the fastest player in the league most years he played.

That said, Mike Evans is the best comp for Watson. Faster than Evans, but similar. I see a slew of 1k to 1200 yard seasons in his future, but never 90 catches.

This must be your acorn for the day hahahaha. Yes, I agree with the Mike Evans comparison - for now. Going forward, I'd say that's about the low end for Watson - not a bad low end. I guess Moss may have been the fastest in the league. How many faster than Watson are there now? Not many I suspect, and probably none of them 6'5" or so.

As I said, with all those other really good receivers, Watson may not need to catch 90 or more.

[run pMc]

I'm with RG on this one. He's not Evans, who is both physical and fast, and he's not Moss or Tyreek either.
He's built like Moss and fast like Moss, but he doesn't have the games of Moss, Evans or Hill.

They can spread the ball around, yes yes fine. I don't think Doubs is more than a WR3, Wicks is a WR2 at best unless he develops into Davante 2.0, and Reed is a slot guy... so he's not a WR1 either -- he'll be off the field in 12 personnel and Doubs/Watson will get the snaps.
It becomes a situation where you don't have a top wideout. Maybe they can get away with that... but the fact is Gute spent 2 R2 picks to draft him so you'd hope he could develop into a WR1.

I have doubts he'll get there. To be clear, I don't think he was a bad pick or that he's a poor player. I think he won't reach his full potential... few players do.

Right now Watson is closer to Torrey Smith or MVS than a top 10 WR. Comparing him to something like Mike Evans (who was a 1000yd receiver as a rookie, and has been every year since) is crazy.
The development curve for him is bigger coming from NDSU, he didn't have contested catch opportunities there, he didn't have to run much of a route tree. He's lean muscle-- he's almost like a track athlete. He still has to learn how to build up his body and take care of it as a pro player. He might figure all that out and be a great receiver, but probability is against it. He might be 'good' and I guess it's a question of whether that's enough given what they gave up to get him.

[Joemailman]

The guy I thought he might be was Javon Walker. He may still get there if he can stay healthy.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/575dfef22eeb81ff5b6a0a54/e9faf778-78f9-4ce5-9865-14dd1ea41541/download.jpeg

[RashanGary]

I’m usually mostly in agreement with the things you see, runPMC, but I’m not sure I’m with you on reed being strictly a slot. Antonio Brown, Greg Jennings and Steve Smith are examples of smaller guys being legit #1 receivers. He had a higher ceiling than a 2 down slot receiver.

[texaspackerbacker]

It's probably true that we don't have a true #1 WR right now. I'd say we don't really need one. I'd also say what we have is better - a loaded group, maybe the best top four or even five we've ever had, and if you include the TEs, the situation is even more loaded, maybe tops in the NFL. IMO, Watson will be the best of the bunch and among the best WRs in the league, but because the whole group is so good, he may not ever have top of the league numbers.

[bobblehead]

I’m going to go hard against this comp. Evans is surprisingly effective at getting early separation for a big guy. And he snags tight contested throws at a very high rate.

I see a body type comp. I could see Watson being about 215, maybe even 220 in his prime. But that’s where that comp ends. Watson is horrible on contested balls. And average to below at getting early separation.

With Watsons weaknesses, I don’t see him going over 1,100 EVER. He looks like a #2, #3 sort of splash guy who disappoints a lot of the time.

I just can't get on board with your assessment unless injuries continue to derail him. He is CONSTANTLY behind the defense. As fast as Tyrique Hill. You can improve on contested catches (he already has), and Evans isn't as good at them as you seem to think. They are very similar players. Evans grinds out 1k seasons without getting 80 catches. He uses his height a little better in the corner endzone routes, but Watson may get better there. Watson has great separation on his routes quite often.

[bobblehead]

I'm with RG on this one. He's not Evans, who is both physical and fast, and he's not Moss or Tyreek either.
He's built like Moss and fast like Moss, but he doesn't have the games of Moss, Evans or Hill.

They can spread the ball around, yes yes fine. I don't think Doubs is more than a WR3, Wicks is a WR2 at best unless he develops into Davante 2.0, and Reed is a slot guy... so he's not a WR1 either -- he'll be off the field in 12 personnel and Doubs/Watson will get the snaps.
It becomes a situation where you don't have a top wideout. Maybe they can get away with that... but the fact is Gute spent 2 R2 picks to draft him so you'd hope he could develop into a WR1.

I have doubts he'll get there. To be clear, I don't think he was a bad pick or that he's a poor player. I think he won't reach his full potential... few players do.

Right now Watson is closer to Torrey Smith or MVS than a top 10 WR. Comparing him to something like Mike Evans (who was a 1000yd receiver as a rookie, and has been every year since) is crazy.
The development curve for him is bigger coming from NDSU, he didn't have contested catch opportunities there, he didn't have to run much of a route tree. He's lean muscle-- he's almost like a track athlete. He still has to learn how to build up his body and take care of it as a pro player. He might figure all that out and be a great receiver, but probability is against it. He might be 'good' and I guess it's a question of whether that's enough given what they gave up to get him.

Is anyone ever as good as the player comp when they are still young?? We are comping games and play style, not results. If so, any comp ever for a rookie would be silly.

[bobblehead]

Here is the deal about comping guys. I don't care what the watch says on the 40, Watson is about the fastest player I can recall. He outruns angles in the NFL....no one does that. He is ALWAYS behind the D. Love needs to muscle up and throw it earlier as far as he fricking can.

The kind of speed Watson brings is unicorn speed. Its just goofy. He was green coming in being from a small school. He is improving. Love is getting to understand him more. When he learns to snap off a route he will be uncoverable. Maybe that never happens, but he has the potential to do it, and very few do.

[run pMc]

Agree on comping guys. Also agree Watson has a size/speed combo that is special. It's a question of whether he can do something more with that talent at this point. Comparing him to an HOF WR is premature for a guy who has played 22 games.

[Fritz]

Agree on comping guys. Also agree Watson has a size/speed combo that is special. It's a question of whether he can do something more with that talent at this point. Comparing him to an HOF WR is premature for a guy who has played 22 games.

There's a lot of premature ejaculating going on at Packerrats.

[bobblehead]

Agree on comping guys. Also agree Watson has a size/speed combo that is special. It's a question of whether he can do something more with that talent at this point. Comparing him to an HOF WR is premature for a guy who has played 22 games.

Like I said, comparing him to anyone who has a 80 catch season under his belt is premature in that vein. I'm comping play style. Evans is only 50/50 to make the hall at best. He just never posts the monster catch numbers. But Love has tried to hit him (unsuccessfully) many times on that fade route Evans does so well with. But Love is using it from 30 yards out. It needs to become a thing inside the 10. I'll stick with my comp. A guy who is similar in stature, gets open downfield and breaks off chunk plays more often than 10 yarders.

[bobblehead]

There's a lot of premature ejaculating going on at Packerrats.

Agreed. Its funny I to say we can't comp guys 22 games in to a HoF but we comp Love to anyone at all 10 games in is even more silly. As I said, we are comping play style and such. We are comping guys who are evolving and improving and changing. Adams was a contested catch specialist coming out, now he is Allen Iverson putting DBs on skates. The best ankle breaker I have ever seen in the NFL. He completely changed who he was. Watson has certain things that are his calling card, and I say never a 90 catch season...but if he learns to snap off a sideline route while being a major threat to blow right by guys....he could become a 110 catch guy. I just don't think its likely for a 6-4 guy.