Gute as GM after four drafts

[Jaire]

It's still a little early of course. But I think now we can see Gute's strategy and "philosophy."

He became GM January of 2018. I give him a pass on the first draft and first year though Jaire was definitely a homerun pick, and MVS was a major contributor to Packer success, the only player besides Rodgers who almost pulled off an upset (what it was) against the Bucs.

The Packers were in deep controversy in three of his first four years. After the overdue but necessary firing of MM, cold and heartless as it was executed, Gute & Murphy made an excellent choice in MLF, the most winning coach in his debut since the merger. He took over a team that was depleted with no depth at any positions: only a few stars left and some aging vets.

2019 draft This and the 2022 were deep drafts, and Gute procured extra picks in both drafts. Stellar or lucky, take your pick, but he did know what he had. 2020 & 2021 were weak drafts and they made the best of it, with the sole scar being the not so loved Love pick, which still might turn out well. Gary, Savage, and Jenkins were a huge hall though I had wanted McLaurin in the 3rd: that was likely an MLF pick there.

2020 draft They just got solid players in a weak draft. I am of the camp that the Love pick was a disaster, and the FO mishandled Rodgers who repeatedly stated he wanted to end his career in GB. They have now healed that wound. Hopefully, Gute has learned from this and moved on

2021 draft There's a steady trend with Gute. His early picks are consistently safe and solid with less regard than in the past for positiional value. I did NOT like this at the time, but I am on board now. There were far too many reaches and settling for second bests under TT. Now taking good players in the second or third, whether they be running backs or centers opens up more possibilities on the board. He also doesn't try to fit square pegs into round holes. I think it's safe to say this is a key upgrade over the old strategy. Gute still retains much from the TT / Wolf tradition, but this is a pleasant upgrade.

2022 draft This was the culmination. The Davante Adams trade was an absolute steal. Better a year early than a year late, and to get two extra high picks in the deepest draft that I remember was gold. And they capitalized. Gute made great value picks through round five: all starters or key rotational / back up guys. He completes his four year rebuild of the line. It's my favorite draft since I started following 13 years ago: basically a double draft imo (and per usual took a turn I did not expect).

FA's under Gute. Name another team that did a better job the last three years in free agency. Not only was the haul in 2019 a score, but the FA's he's brought in were theft: Lazard, Tonyan, De'vondre Campbel, Rasul Douglas were players any team could have had. Gute has hugely improved on the most glaring defect in the TT regime.

Both in the FA and moving around in the draft, Gute has outperformed Ted Thompson. His overall draft strategy to my mind is superior to TT's (2011-2017). He emerged shining after folks, several times questioned the future of Titletown (albeit the Rodgers / Love miscue was of his own making -- I did NOT think Gute would change and he proved me wrong).

We now have one of the youngest and most talented teams in the league with good coaches (and I was always hopeful for Joe Barry after I dug into his background and pedigree). Gute's next challenge, and biggest, will be the post Rodgers era. But even the best organizations, like the Steelers & Ravens, struggle when it comes to QB.

As to the playoffs, I regard that as somewhat of luck...... 2019 (they were lucky to get so far), 2020 (the Bucs were stacked, the oline lost the game -- Bakh out didn't help), 2021 (that team was decimated and gimpy like no Packer team I remember in 30 years. Healthy, they would have walked through the Superbowl). Next year (and as long as AR is QB) we can really be excited. I know folks are tired of dissapointment, but I really can't blame the team, MLF, or AR unless it be DREADFUL special teams but that was our Achilles, and Crosby's fall off, who could have predicted that??

[bobblehead]

Gutes is either lucky, or playing 3D chess in some regards. Getting Rodgers under contract while trading Adams for excellent draft capital was a coupe for the ages. If they pay Adams what the Raiders did then we lose even more good players.

Rodgers can make it work with the weapons we have on offense. My critique would be not developing young WR with at least SOME top 3 round draft capital in preparation for this season. But I also loved this draft, the Walker pick aside. There are always things anyone would do different, but this roster is still stacked. Its young. Some tough choices will have to be made regarding 2nd contracts and letting good players walk entering 3rd contracts, but Gutes has proven up to the task so far.

It will be interesting. I'm betting that Jones, Amos, and Preston are almost certainly gone after this season.

[Jaire]

It will be interesting. I'm betting that Jones, Amos, and Preston are almost certainly gone after this season.

The cap is being repressed by the NFL. It should be higher. Nevertheless if they can get this year's big contracts done early, they might beat the inflation that's coming (Jenkins, Gary, Jaire, and maybe Savage). As Gute said, the cap isn't as big a deal as fans make it. Letting Adams go (for a king's ransom) really helps with other signings. Jenkins / Gary / Jaire are gonna be at least $50 million per year, but the 2020 class contracts will give some breathing room.

Amos > Savage; he's the glue back there and 30 isn't too old for safety. That will be interesting. We don't have Preston's replacement, and you really want three if you are going to contend. He will be year by year depending how/ if he declines: reliable and good value for what he does. I think he is most likely to stay actually. Jones is more valuable than merely than what he does on field. At least, his contract needs to be reworked next year. Of those Amos is hardest to replace, but it doesn't make sense to replace Preston imo.

They must be very high on Walker to take him over Johnson & Ebiketie. Those guys usually aren't around at the bottom of round one. Still, their needs going forward are few, and can be replaced in one draft possibly: Edge, safety, RB, TE. (It's noteworthy they waited after the draft to tag Gary & Savage.)

[Jaire]

Gutes is either lucky, or playing 3D chess in some regards.

Indeed.

But to Gute's credit some of the draft moves and getting huge extra draft capital in deep drafts, as well as the FA signings were not things Ted Thompson did. He gets some credit for at least taking advantage of the opportunities that came his way. What I'm most glad about is that he seems to have corrected and learned from his mistakes: this is also what I like maybe most about MLF. And it was the most frustrating to watch TT and MM stubbornly make the same mistakes year after year: that really seems to be behind us.

[texaspackerbacker]

He's been more good than bad. I'm not gonna overdo the praise, but he's a helluva lot better than Ted Thompson IMO. Bringing in solid FA players on D as well as knowing who to retain and who to let go helped a lot. I think he has also mostly handled the draft better - everything except the colossal blunder with Love.

He and/or his people seem to use the cap a lot more effectively than Ted ever did also.

[George Cumby]

Solid take, Jaire.

Don't agree with all of it but very well reasoned and thought out.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Now, I switched my username from Tank Elf Duke to Anti-Polar Bear for a reason. Check out my grammatically fucked “Ted Is Trapped In the Closet” threads for the reason.

But to say that the German Shepherd (Gutekunst) is a better GM, currently, than the Polar Bear (Thompson) once was is as ridiculous as the time Tony O’Day stopped rooting for the NHL. A hundred billion years from now, light from 2005 earth will reach a distant planet in some distant galaxy. The technologically super-advanced ETs there will witness the Polar Bear give birth to the Great Arm of Butte - with Sherman’s pick, nonetheless.

And last I checked, the Polar Bear won a fluke ring as head honcho. German Shepherd? Cost Pack a ring by not drafting DK Metcalf, despite having 3 opportunities to do so. Polar Bear > German Shepherd.

[George Cumby]

Polar Bear > German Shepherd.

Apparently we have entered the Multiverse of Madness.

[Jaire]

Cost Pack a ring by not drafting DK Metcalf, despite having 3 opportunities to do so. Polar Bear > German Shepherd.

hahaha

Forgot about that. Maybe you'll get over Metcalf in 5 to 10 years.

[Joemailman]

wrong thread

[MadScientist]

hahaha

Forgot about that. Maybe you'll get over Metcalf in 5 to 10 years.

Is he over Joey Harrington yet?

[Upnorth]

One thing i keeo thinking is how under rated the draft of dillion is. He is a completely different style of back on the ground, and both are exceptional at there jobs.
They are both some of the best pass catching backs as well. If we have both on the field this year at the same time i can't wait to see what other defenses do....
I bet they both get 1400ish yards from scrimmage this year and its possible neither breaks 1000 yards rushing.

[texaspackerbacker]

Dillon is damn good, and in hindsight, I'm glad we drafted him. However, he IS a different kind of RB, and IMO, not remotely as good as Aaron Jones. Dillon has a chance to be right up there with Derrick Henry as among the best of that kind of RB. I'd much rather have a game-breaking speed back like Jones, like Dalvin Cook, like Tony Pollard, and a few others as RB #1 with Dillon as the back up.

Also, it apparently isn't all that hard to find decent RBs. Kylin Hill, Patrick Taylor, Goodson who may or may not even make the team, etc.

[bobblehead]

One thing i keeo thinking is how under rated the draft of dillion is. He is a completely different style of back on the ground, and both are exceptional at there jobs.
They are both some of the best pass catching backs as well. If we have both on the field this year at the same time i can't wait to see what other defenses do....
I bet they both get 1400ish yards from scrimmage this year and its possible neither breaks 1000 yards rushing.

With no DAdams the red zone Offense is what I really worry about. If Dillon becomes Christian Okoye and crushes it in with 2 tries from the 5 consistently he is a draft pick for the ages.

[bobblehead]

Dillon is damn good, and in hindsight, I'm glad we drafted him. However, he IS a different kind of RB, and IMO, not remotely as good as Aaron Jones. Dillon has a chance to be right up there with Derrick Henry as among the best of that kind of RB. I'd much rather have a game-breaking speed back like Jones, like Dalvin Cook, like Tony Pollard, and a few others as RB #1 with Dillon as the back up.

Also, it apparently isn't all that hard to find decent RBs. Kylin Hill, Patrick Taylor, Goodson who may or may not even make the team, etc.

For once I agree with you on this side. Dillon is the "inside the 30 back" imo. And I really hope Kylin Hill can come back good as ever because he was a steal in the 7th round. And honestly, Goodson was a steal for UDFA.

[Upnorth]

With no DAdams the red zone Offense is what I really worry about. If Dillon becomes Christian Okoye and crushes it in with 2 tries from the 5 consistently he is a draft pick for the ages.

I think you are going to be ecstatic then

[Joemailman]

With no DAdams the red zone Offense is what I really worry about. If Dillon becomes Christian Okoye and crushes it in with 2 tries from the 5 consistently he is a draft pick for the ages.

The key will be the offensive line. In 2020 Packers were the #1 red zone offense in the NFL because they were unusually good at running the ball in the red zone. Forcing teams to respect the run opened up a lot of things in the passing game.

[RashanGary]

The offensive line is the key to the 2022 offense. We know we have two good running backs. We know we have a good QB. We know the receivers and TEs are barely serviceable.

If the OL is good, Rodgers and the running back duo will be able to make hay.

[texaspackerbacker]

You got that backwards, RG.

[Upnorth]

You got that backwards, RG.

Have you ever spoken with a qb or rb that doesn't give credit to the oline????

[texaspackerbacker]

hahahahaha. I give my dogs full credit and a treat every time I come home and they have protected the house from anybody breaking in.

[Upnorth]

hahahahaha. I give my dogs full credit and a treat every time I come home and they have protected the house from anybody breaking in.

I was a below average running back who had a below average qb. Our line was a bunch of farm boys who destroyed the city teams we played against. I was one of the statistically better rb in our league and the qb had time to throw inaccurately almost every passing play.

[Fritz]

Indeed.

But to Gute's credit some of the draft moves and getting huge extra draft capital in deep drafts, as well as the FA signings were not things Ted Thompson did. He gets some credit for at least taking advantage of the opportunities that came his way. What I'm most glad about is that he seems to have corrected and learned from his mistakes: this is also what I like maybe most about MLF. And it was the most frustrating to watch TT and MM stubbornly make the same mistakes year after year: that really seems to be behind us.

Gutekunst

[Fritz]

It's still a little early of course. But I think now we can see Gute's strategy and "philosophy."

He became GM January of 2018. I give him a pass on the first draft and first year though Jaire was definitely a homerun pick, and MVS was a major contributor to Packer success, the only player besides Rodgers who almost pulled off an upset (what it was) against the Bucs.

The Packers were in deep controversy in three of his first four years. After the overdue but necessary firing of MM, cold and heartless as it was executed, Gute & Murphy made an excellent choice in MLF, the most winning coach in his debut since the merger. He took over a team that was depleted with no depth at any positions: only a few stars left and some aging vets.

2019 draft This and the 2022 were deep drafts, and Gute procured extra picks in both drafts. Stellar or lucky, take your pick, but he did know what he had. 2020 & 2021 were weak drafts and they made the best of it, with the sole scar being the not so loved Love pick, which still might turn out well. Gary, Savage, and Jenkins were a huge hall though I had wanted McLaurin in the 3rd: that was likely an MLF pick there.

2020 draft They just got solid players in a weak draft. I am of the camp that the Love pick was a disaster, and the FO mishandled Rodgers who repeatedly stated he wanted to end his career in GB. They have now healed that wound. Hopefully, Gute has learned from this and moved on

2021 draft There's a steady trend with Gute. His early picks are consistently safe and solid with less regard than in the past for positiional value. I did NOT like this at the time, but I am on board now. There were far too many reaches and settling for second bests under TT. Now taking good players in the second or third, whether they be running backs or centers opens up more possibilities on the board. He also doesn't try to fit square pegs into round holes. I think it's safe to say this is a key upgrade over the old strategy. Gute still retains much from the TT / Wolf tradition, but this is a pleasant upgrade.

2022 draft This was the culmination. The Davante Adams trade was an absolute steal. Better a year early than a year late, and to get two extra high picks in the deepest draft that I remember was gold. And they capitalized. Gute made great value picks through round five: all starters or key rotational / back up guys. He completes his four year rebuild of the line. It's my favorite draft since I started following 13 years ago: basically a double draft imo (and per usual took a turn I did not expect).

FA's under Gute. Name another team that did a better job the last three years in free agency. Not only was the haul in 2019 a score, but the FA's he's brought in were theft: Lazard, Tonyan, De'vondre Campbel, Rasul Douglas were players any team could have had. Gute has hugely improved on the most glaring defect in the TT regime.

Both in the FA and moving around in the draft, Gute has outperformed Ted Thompson. His overall draft strategy to my mind is superior to TT's (2011-2017). He emerged shining after folks, several times questioned the future of Titletown (albeit the Rodgers / Love miscue was of his own making -- I did NOT think Gute would change and he proved me wrong).

We now have one of the youngest and most talented teams in the league with good coaches (and I was always hopeful for Joe Barry after I dug into his background and pedigree). Gute's next challenge, and biggest, will be the post Rodgers era. But even the best organizations, like the Steelers & Ravens, struggle when it comes to QB.

As to the playoffs, I regard that as somewhat of luck...... 2019 (they were lucky to get so far), 2020 (the Bucs were stacked, the oline lost the game -- Bakh out didn't help), 2021 (that team was decimated and gimpy like no Packer team I remember in 30 years. Healthy, they would have walked through the Superbowl). Next year (and as long as AR is QB) we can really be excited. I know folks are tired of dissapointment, but I really can't blame the team, MLF, or AR unless it be DREADFUL special teams but that was our Achilles, and Crosby's fall off, who could have predicted that??

While I agree that Gutekunst is doing a better job than Thompson did in his last six or so years, I would also say that Thompson, in his first six years on the job, was really, really good - as good as anything Gutekunst has done. For example, you incorrectly state above that Tonyan was a Gutekunst signing - but that was Thompson in 2017. You also forget that Thompson signed Tramon Williams as a street free agent, and Sam Shields as a UDFA. And then there's one of the greatest Packer free-agent signings of all time: Charles Woodson. In terms of drafting, in his first six or so years, Thompson was one of the best in the league. Just look at the gold he mined there.

But yes, he did get stuck in his ways, and he did begin to lose focus on drafting the best player available and moving to drafting for need. That's when things began to get away from him, and he began to hurt the franchise. You are also correct that his increasing conservatism regarding the salary cap hurt this team - though it benefitted Gutekunst in his first two years, as he had all kinds of cap room to sign the Smith Brothers and so on. I'm not sure how much of Ted's GM decline is attributable to the onset of his dementia, but he passed away fairly soon after he was relieved of his GM duties, really, so it's hard not to think he'd been declining for at least a couple of years before he was let go as GM. And that's on Murphy, for letting Thompson stay in charge too long.

But all in all, I agree that Gutekunst has been flexible and adaptable and has done a good job. He absolutely nailed Rashan Gary, and when he drafted a running back in the second round I nearly flipped, but look at how important AJ Dillon is now. Gutekunst has been what this team needed.

[RashanGary]

I put Ted above Gute.

Down the stretch Ted wasnt himself but he still got us a ring with his own QB. And the Favre doom and gloom about how wed go back to the 80s never came true.

Gute has us in salary hell and no championship in sight. No new QB. No thanks. Our receivers are Lazard, Cobb and Watkins. Yuck!

[texaspackerbacker]

The Packers could have and should have been MUCH better all during Ted's time, not just his senile years. If he had handled free agency more like Gutekunst, the team really could have been maximized. but he didn't and it wasn't. One good move with Woodson doesn't make up for being way too cautious and not using the salary cap effectively like Gutekunst does.

[Bretsky]

I consider Ron Wolf to be the best GM I have ever witnessed in Green Bay.

I would give Ted a Slight Edge over Gute overall but purely because he got us a Super Bowl. If Gooters gets one in my book he jumps TT immediately. And truth be told, with the exception of the motherload F'ck up of the Love Machine, I like the way Gute does business way more than TT. If TT was more like Gute I think AROD would have won more than one SB

[texaspackerbacker]

Neither Wolf nor Ted handled the cap like Gutekunst - pushing it to the max. Thus, they failed to maximize the team the way Gutekunst has. Wolf and Ted didn't win the Super Bowls. Favre and Rodgers did. I'd certainly never defend drafting Love, but it's about the only black mark against Gutekunst.

[Joemailman]

Both Wolf and TT got the 2 most important things right. They hired the right coach, and they got their QB. Both really stuck their necks out for the QB. Wolf gave up a 1st round pick for a guy who had been a 2nd round pick and who was totally undisciplined. TT used a 1st round pick on a QB when he still had an elite QB.

The final jury is still out on Gute. We don't yet know if his coach can get the team over the hump in the playoffs. And if Rodgers chooses to retire, we don't know if he acquired the right guy to replace him.

[Fritz]

I consider Ron Wolf to be the best GM I have ever witnessed in Green Bay.

I would give Ted a Slight Edge over Gute overall but purely because he got us a Super Bowl. If Gooters gets one in my book he jumps TT immediately. And truth be told, with the exception of the motherload F'ck up of the Love Machine, I like the way Gute does business way more than TT. If TT was more like Gute I think AROD would have won more than one SB

Gutekunst has been GM for what, four years now? And . . . no Super Bowl yet. So I'm not sure how TT being more like the guy who has yet to get the team to a SB would mean more SB's...

[bobblehead]

The Packers could have and should have been MUCH better all during Ted's time, not just his senile years. If he had handled free agency more like Gutekunst, the team really could have been maximized. but he didn't and it wasn't. One good move with Woodson doesn't make up for being way too cautious and not using the salary cap effectively like Gutekunst does.

If he had fired fat mike and hired a motivated hungry young coach like MiLF I think we would all be hailing TT as the greatest GM ever. Instead he stuck with a guy who was not creative and lost his only edge when the collective bargaining eliminated most off season work.

[texaspackerbacker]

Gutekunst has been GM for what, four years now? And . . . no Super Bowl yet. So I'm not sure how TT being more like the guy who has yet to get the team to a SB would mean more SB's...

Fuck the damn SBs. Look at the record(s).

[Fritz]

Fuck the damn SBs. Look at the record(s).

Well, you do have a point there. Ted's teams were bad, then okay, then really good, then Favre left, then Rodgers's first year was not good, then they got good for a while. I'd say Ted was good from about 2005 - 2012. I think in response to Bobble - they could've gotten rid of McCarthy maybe a year sooner, but Rodgers was hurt.

[texaspackerbacker]

Yeah. It was ALL about Favre and Rodgers whether it was feast or famine - and it shouldn't have been if Ted had maximized things.

This year, for the first time in forever, I almost think the team could have a solid winning record even if Rodgers got hurt - almost but not quite.

[RashanGary]

Yeah. It was ALL about Favre and Rodgers whether it was feast or famine - and it shouldn't have been if Ted had maximized things.

This year, for the first time in forever, I almost think the team could have a solid winning record even if Rodgers got hurt - almost but not quite.

Gute and TT usually have good OLs. Should be good again. Yeah, might be fine without Rodgers :wink:

[Upnorth]

Re reading some of the above my biggest take a ways are

Ted was great at udfa and deep drafting and wr. Not certain I have ever seen any one close at identifing reciever talent.
Gute is great at fa and coaching staff identification. And likely secondary identification depending on savage.

And finally how does anyone consider love a black mark. He is an incomplete mark because no one knows. If he can't start anywhere he is a black mark. If he does and does well he will add to proving gutes ability to see talent. 12 was trendingdown, no one except tex, foresaw 2 MVP awards in his future. In 2 years we will see loves true worth.

[texaspackerbacker]

It really doesn't take much to be a good or great coach if you have Favre or Rodgers leading your team. I'm confident that LaFleur is a better coach already and will end up being a MUCH better coach than anybody Ted or even Wolf hired. So far, the best thing LaFleur has done is subordinate his ego and go with the flow - the Rodgers flow. Gradually, though, we are seeing his own creativity - making Rodgers even better, and maybe eventually providing a decent future after Rodgers is gone - something I previously saw zero hope for.

[bobblehead]

I put Ted above Gute.

Down the stretch Ted wasnt himself but he still got us a ring with his own QB. And the Favre doom and gloom about how wed go back to the 80s never came true.

Gute has us in salary hell and no championship in sight. No new QB. No thanks. Our receivers are Lazard, Cobb and Watkins. Yuck!

If Gutes can continue to execute his drafts we can come out the other side of cap hell pretty quickly now that we didn't lock Adams up and compound the issue. Our young talent: Alexander, Jenkins, Dillon, Gary, Stokes are all very good players. I really loved the picks of Wyatt and Watson and have hope that Quay is what they are thinking he is. The young talent all across the OL is impressive. Guys like Hill and Goodson are nice finds at RB. Can't argue with the outcomes of Campbell and Douglas.

We are in cap hell and will suffer when Bak/Rodgers contracts come full due. We are already paying slightly for some other moves, but this team is stacked and ready to compete. We are soft at the WR/TE weapons and will need another Day one/two pick in that area next year. No ring, but 3 straight 13 win seasons can't be discounted. If Love has a good preseason and looks like he might be a QB then I have to say Gutes crushed it. TT got a ring and evolved to a 2nd HOF QB and Gutes can't say he is better after a few seasons....that will be decided years from now.

[bobblehead]

I consider Ron Wolf to be the best GM I have ever witnessed in Green Bay.

I would give Ted a Slight Edge over Gute overall but purely because he got us a Super Bowl. If Gooters gets one in my book he jumps TT immediately. And truth be told, with the exception of the motherload F'ck up of the Love Machine, I like the way Gute does business way more than TT. If TT was more like Gute I think AROD would have won more than one SB

Wolf had no cap and a motherlode of cash to spend. If he had made it last a bit longer I'd give him more credit. He was good, but he basically bought an Owl.

[bobblehead]

It really doesn't take much to be a good or great coach if you have Favre or Rodgers leading your team. I'm confident that LaFleur is a better coach already and will end up being a MUCH better coach than anybody Ted or even Wolf hired. So far, the best thing LaFleur has done is subordinate his ego and go with the flow - the Rodgers flow. Gradually, though, we are seeing his own creativity - making Rodgers even better, and maybe eventually providing a decent future after Rodgers is gone - something I previously saw zero hope for.

Wolf hired Holmgren who is on a VERY short list of coaches who lead 2 seperate franchises to an Owl. Hell, the list of coaches who lead 2 seperate QBs to an Owl is REALLY small.

Holmgren, for my money, is a top 10 all time coach (and I can only go back to about 1970 due to game changing and what I witnessed).

[texaspackerbacker]

As I have said, Super Bowls are overrated. Holmgren was a good coach, but I just don't see the creativity and overall goodness that I see in LaFleur. Having Favre and Rodgers literally MADE both, though. If Wolf is a great GM, it is for pretty much one reaon, trading for Favre. Was that super smart? Or did he get lucky? Ditto that to an even greater degree with Ted getting Rodgers. It absolutely was luck that Rodgers fell that far. Super smart or just doing the obvious and getting lucky to draft him?

[sharpe1027]

As I have said, Super Bowls are overrated. Holmgren was a good coach, but I just don't see the creativity and overall goodness that I see in LaFleur. Having Favre and Rodgers literally MADE both, though. If Wolf is a great GM, it is for pretty much one reaon, trading for Favre. Was that super smart? Or did he get lucky? Ditto that to an even greater degree with Ted getting Rodgers. It absolutely was luck that Rodgers fell that far. Super smart or just doing the obvious and getting lucky to draft him?

Drafting Rodgers was not luck. The are a defined set of draft rules and each organization is competing for the same resources. You win by making better choices than your opponent over the aggregate and long term. GB beat all the teams that passed by making the right decision.

No luck involved.

[texaspackerbacker]

Yes ....... and the LUCK is that none of the teams drafting earlier saw it that way.

[bobblehead]

As I have said, Super Bowls are overrated. Holmgren was a good coach, but I just don't see the creativity and overall goodness that I see in LaFleur. Having Favre and Rodgers literally MADE both, though. If Wolf is a great GM, it is for pretty much one reaon, trading for Favre. Was that super smart? Or did he get lucky? Ditto that to an even greater degree with Ted getting Rodgers. It absolutely was luck that Rodgers fell that far. Super smart or just doing the obvious and getting lucky to draft him?

Holmgren made it to an Owl with Hasselbeck. Do you have a way to explain that away also?

Edit: And Favre was never the same QB after he stopped playing with Holmgren.

[texaspackerbacker]

I said Holmgren was a good coach. I just don't think he was as good as LaFleur. Making it to the SB with Hasselbeck? They did have a pretty good defense hahahaha.

[Upnorth]

Holmgren made it to an Owl with Hasselbeck. Do you have a way to explain that away also?

Edit: And Favre was never the same QB after he stopped playing with Holmgren.

The best oline possibly ever. How many times did Alexander have 5 yards before contact? I think he got more tired from distance than contact. The entire ol should have been in the pro bowl and might as well have been the all pro line up.
Still as coach you need to know how to use them.

[run pMc]

The best oline possibly ever. How many times did Alexander have 5 yards before contact? I think he got more tired from distance than contact. The entire ol should have been in the pro bowl and might as well have been the all pro line up.
Still as coach you need to know how to use them.

OL doesn't matter, it's all the QB.</sarcasm>

Gute's drafted 3 OL in 3 straight years. It's how you build good lines and avoid having to sign the Adrian Klemms of the league (or get your aging QB killed).

Seattle's D was good that year, but it wasn't exactly the Legion of Boom. A lot of people think SEA got help from the refs that SB. Oh, and Ted was the VP of Football Operations for SEA back then. He ran the scouting department and the draft boards for Holmgren.

[texaspackerbacker]

With Russell Wilson as with Rodgers, it damn well WAS all the QB - no sarcasm.

Both of them had very very little need for decent O Line blocking to get the job done.

[run pMc]

Holmgren had Hasselbeck, not Wilson.

[bobblehead]

I said Holmgren was a good coach. I just don't think he was as good as LaFleur. Making it to the SB with Hasselbeck? They did have a pretty good defense hahahaha.

Every super bowl team has a pretty good defense. That seahawks team was 7th overall. Below average by super bowl champion standards. And they had a dominant run game....and TT was effectively the GM. Rodgers has never won an Owl with less than the #2 offense if I recall.

[bobblehead]

OL doesn't matter, it's all the QB.</sarcasm>

Gute's drafted 3 OL in 3 straight years. It's how you build good lines and avoid having to sign the Adrian Klemms of the league (or get your aging QB killed).

Seattle's D was good that year, but it wasn't exactly the Legion of Boom. A lot of people think SEA got help from the refs that SB. Oh, and Ted was the VP of Football Operations for SEA back then. He ran the scouting department and the draft boards for Holmgren.

Guess I could have saved some typing and simply said QFT

[bobblehead]

With Russell Wilson as with Rodgers, it damn well WAS all the QB - no sarcasm.

Both of them had very very little need for decent O Line blocking to get the job done.

Tex, I know the years blend at your age, but Holmgren never coached Russell Wilson.

[texaspackerbacker]

OK ...... age plus the fact that I really don't much give a damn about replaying past shit - very little with the Packers and virtually not at all with other teams.

Bottom line: I still say if you have a super mobile QB with a quick release and a mindset not to throw interceptions, then how good the O Line is or not doesn't make a helluva lot of difference and is not that easy to measure the goodness or lack of it of. Rodgers and to only slightly less extent Wilson fit that description. Holmgren made it to the SB with Hasselbeck, not Wilson? Good for him, but I still don't think he is as good a coach overall as LaFleur.

[Sparkey]

OK ...... age plus the fact that I really don't much give a damn about replaying past shit

Hahaha ROTFLMAO . Thats rich!

[sharpe1027]

Yes ....... and the LUCK is that none of the teams drafting earlier saw it that way.

By that definition, almost anything could be called luck. Rodgers is lucky that other more athletic quarterbacks throw more picks than he does. Otherwise, he'd be rated lower