Receiving corps(e)

[MadScientist]

After losing Adams and MVS, nearly half of the receiving yards from last year, there is a big question of who is going to catch the ball this year. So here's a look at the Packers receiving corps (or corpse since they are mostly a collection of stiffs).

WR's
1) Lazard - has shown the ability of a 2-3 receiver so far, but he has the best combination of talent and experience in the offense the Packers have - 750 yards
2) Cobb - aging, slower and not great at getting open any more. There because Rodgers want's him - 325 yards
3) Watkins - Looked great in 2015. Since then mostly injured and ineffective. Maybe he's lightning in a bottle, but more likely piss in a specimen bottle - 400 yards
4) Rodgers - Worthless last year. Maybe the puff pieces are right, but not likely. Probably makes the roster - 100 yards (cut mid-season if nobody gets injured)
5) Watson - Most physically talented receiver in years. Only lesser college, and Rodgers demands perfection, so not too much this year - 450 yards (only if he can get a few deep ones)
6) Doubs - Rookie, but not nearly as gifted as Watson - 325 yards
7) Toure - Rookie, there for special teams - 50 yards
8) Winfree - PS, but comes up when someone gets injured - 100 yards
WR total = 2500

Tight Ends
1) Tonyan - Coming off injury that usually takes a year to heal and more to return to form - 175 yards
2) Lewis - Old cars just don't run like new ones - 125 yards
3) Deguara - Was he not fully recovered last year, or just a guy? Guessing JAG - 225 yards
4) Dafney - Can he play? Can he stay on the field? - 100 yards
5) Davis - Despite puff pieces, probably ST - 50 yards
TE total - 500

Running Backs
1) Jones - Loads of talent. Overuse (and therefore injury) biggest concern. 350 yards
2) Dillon - See Jones, but not quite as fast - 300 yards.
RB total 650

other -250
That puts the Packers at 3900 - 600 less than last year.

The receiving talent is just not there for the Packers. In order to make up for the missing yards, Rodgers is going to have to give up his demands for MM-esq pre-snap reads and fully embrace the MLF offense of motion and scheming receivers open.

[Joemailman]

Rodgers has already said that without Adams the offense will have to change. By his own admission he can be headstrong. But he's not stupid. He will change and probably relishes the opportunity to prove doubters wrong.

I expect the passing yards to be about the same as last year. Just more evenly distributed. Watkins, if he can stay healthy, has more left than people think. He was off to a good start in a neanderthal Ravens offense before he got hurt.

The Packers will move the ball. The key is whether they can improve on their #19 ranking in red zone efficiency from 2021.

[Upnorth]

I believe rodgers is one of the most underrated players in the league based on what we have seen.

It's not that he has look great or even good. It's that we have 8 or 14 total snaps at wr...
He is poor on st. Completely different animal than wr. He is on my x Factor list.
The other most under rated recieving threat we have (imo) is dillion.
Jones gets (and deserves) lots of hype but most advanced stat sites have dillion as a better pass catcher. I think he might be as good or almost as good as Jones and that is a massive complement. I expect at least 400 yards from each of our rbs. Which is going to be a postive on Watson and rodgers efficiency.

[texaspackerbacker]

Upnorth, Rodgers is "one of the most underrated players in the league"? I'm an optimist, but that's a little bit over the top hahahaha.

Joe, you didn't even include one of my favorites, Malik Taylor. At very least, he'd be above Winfrey, although I wouldn't be surprised if neither makes the 53.

I think Watson is gonna get the most yards - more than double your 450 figure. Your Lazard number is probably about right. Watkins could anywhere from getting cut to nearly a thousand yards. I'd agree, your 400 figure is about right. Doubs will get more or less depending on how bad or good Watkins is.

All in all, I think Rodgers throws for well over your 3,900 figure. I agree, he will and should do things his way in combination with a lot of LaFleur principles too. LaFleur had the good sense to subordinate his way to some extent because of Rodgers, and I expect that again. We will undoubtedly run the ball more, although still way less than passing it.

I expect 7 WRs to be kept with 2, maybe even 3 more on the practice squad.

[Upnorth]

The rodgers I refer to is amari. Not Aaron.
If watkins isnt injured he is going to touch 1000. Big if.

[MadScientist]

Tex, Malik Taylor showed nothing as a receiver in two years, and will turn 27 this year. I didn't include him as I don't think he will make the team. But he might get the yards I said Winfree would get.

Upnorth, the only Packers receiver who turned out good after having a rookie year as bad as Amari was Driver, and Driver was extremely raw when then took him in the 7th. Unless Amari has gotten much faster, and much better at getting open, I suspect he will wash out at some point this year. As for Watkins, football players rarely get healthier after several injury filled years. And even if he is healthy, I don't see him reverting back to the way he was 7-8 years ago.

As for Aaron Rodgers, he said the offense will look different, but will it just be not having one guy be the primary read all the time, or will he fully embrace the MLF offense. I hope the latter, given how SF showed his pre-snap reads can be hacked by a good defense.

I hope I'm wrong, but I really see receivers as the big weakness of this team.

[ThunderDan]

Tex, Malik Taylor showed nothing as a receiver in two years, and will turn 27 this year. I didn't include him as I don't think he will make the team. But he might get the yards I said Winfree would get.

Upnorth, the only Packers receiver who turned out good after having a rookie year as bad as Amari was Driver, and Driver was extremely raw when then took him in the 7th. Unless Amari has gotten much faster, and much better at getting open, I suspect he will wash out at some point this year. As for Watkins, football players rarely get healthier after several injury filled years. And even if he is healthy, I don't see him reverting back to the way he was 7-8 years ago.

As for Aaron Rodgers, he said the offense will look different, but will it just be not having one guy be the primary read all the time, or will he fully embrace the MLF offense. I hope the latter, given how SF showed his pre-snap reads can be hacked by a good defense.

I hope I'm wrong, but I really see receivers as the big weakness of this team.

I do too.

We really need one of the rookie WRs to come in and contribute right away somewhere in the 800 yard, 6 TD area.

[Upnorth]

Full stop wr is the biggest area of weakness, and that is our only blatant weakness
But optimistic upnorth feels like it may not be fire and brimstone bad

[MadScientist]

I do too.

We really need one of the rookie WRs to come in and contribute right away somewhere in the 800 yard, 6 TD area.

That would put them in Sharpe/Lofton territory. I don't think there have been any other Packers rookies to put up numbers like that.

[ThunderDan]

That would put them in Sharpe/Lofton territory. I don't think there have been any other Packers rookies to put up numbers like that.

I know but we need it or I really think this year is going to be a long one.

[MadScientist]

I know but we need it or I really think this year is going to be a long one.

Don't hold your breath.

They absolutely have to lean on motion and scheming receivers open. Watson is the only one with the tools to beat single coverage, but he's raw. The only way he gets those numbers is for the Packers to reduce his playbook to a few deep routes that he really does well, and scheme him to isolate him 1 on 1 with a slower our shorter back.

[RashanGary]

It

[Joemailman]

That would put them in Sharpe/Lofton territory. I don't think there have been any other Packers rookies to put up numbers like that.

Due to the players the Packers have had at the position over the last 20 years though, no Packer rookie WR has had the opportunity that a guy like Watson could have this year. Basically every year for the last 2 decades, the Packers have had entering the season, a WR who was not only a true #1, but top 10 in the NFL.

MVS had nearly 600 yards receiving as a rookie in 2018. I don't find it so hard to believe that Watson could have a better rookie year than what MVS had.

[texaspackerbacker]

The reason the passing game and the receiving corps won't be bad is, of course, Aaron Rodgers. I'm on record as saying, and I say again, Christian Watson will have a better season and MUCH better next 3-5 years playing with Rodgers than Davante Adams will have playing with Carr - because Rodgers makes receivers, including Adams great. And Watson has better tools than just about anybody else. I hadn't heard much about Doubs before the Packers drafted him, but apparently he has the makings of a good receiver too with Rodgers throwing to him.

[run pMc]

Derek Carr threw for 4800 yards last year, and has been over 4000 yards for 4 years straight with a QB rating averaging in the high 90's during that time. I think this year's version LVR's receivers are better than this year's version of GB's if you include the TEs, and it's not that close.
I also think if you are counting on a rookie WR to get more than 600 yards -- even across 17 games -- you are being very very optimistic, and APRH if you think any will outplay Davante Adams this year you are delusional. There is a modest dropoff from Rodgers to Carr, and Adams will compete with Waller, Renfrow, etc. for targets but he's the clear #1 and will get plenty of throws his way... certainly more than a rookie WR. Also consider the AFCW is going to have a lot of shootouts with the QBs in that division, whereas GB will probably run the ball a lot more since RB is more of a known strength for them with Jones/Dillon.

I think statistically we'll see Rodgers will be fine but won't be as gaudy as the last two years -- his overall yards and completion rate will likely drop and the TDs slightly. I think we'll see more close games like in MLF's first year (2019), less blowouts. I don't think the OP's 3900 yard number is that far off - Rodgers threw for 4002 in 2019.

Rookie WRs come into the league better prepared than before, but Justin Jefferson and JaMarr Chase are the exception and not the rule. They were very polished coming out and were part of a historic CFB offense. Watson and Doubs are nowhere close to that. MVS topped 60 yards four times in his rookie season and had 2 TDs, maybe Watson beats that but he also has to beat Lazard, Watkins, Cobb for snaps and targets. Not saying Watson won't be good, I just think a sanity check and realistic expectations are in order.

[bobblehead]

Don't hold your breath.

They absolutely have to lean on motion and scheming receivers open. Watson is the only one with the tools to beat single coverage, but he's raw. The only way he gets those numbers is for the Packers to reduce his playbook to a few deep routes that he really does well, and scheme him to isolate him 1 on 1 with a slower our shorter back.

WR routes are similar to pitchers arm slots. If Watson can run a go, a comeback and a backshoulder without tipping them off he can be very effective. He has shown the ability to do all 3 in college. There is no reason he can't have a 1k season with Rodgers throwing him the ball. That doesn't mean he will, it just means that its not far fetched. Don't expect elaborate crossing routes, or subtle sit downs in the soft part of the zone. Those will take time.

[bobblehead]

It

Upvoted. I couldn't find anything to disagree with.

[bobblehead]

Derek Carr threw for 4800 yards last year, and has been over 4000 yards for 4 years straight with a QB rating averaging in the high 90's during that time. I think this year's version LVR's receivers are better than this year's version of GB's if you include the TEs, and it's not that close.
I also think if you are counting on a rookie WR to get more than 600 yards -- even across 17 games -- you are being very very optimistic, and APRH if you think any will outplay Davante Adams this year you are delusional. There is a modest dropoff from Rodgers to Carr, and Adams will compete with Waller, Renfrow, etc. for targets but he's the clear #1 and will get plenty of throws his way... certainly more than a rookie WR. Also consider the AFCW is going to have a lot of shootouts with the QBs in that division, whereas GB will probably run the ball a lot more since RB is more of a known strength for them with Jones/Dillon.

I think statistically we'll see Rodgers will be fine but won't be as gaudy as the last two years -- his overall yards and completion rate will likely drop and the TDs slightly. I think we'll see more close games like in MLF's first year (2019), less blowouts. I don't think the OP's 3900 yard number is that far off - Rodgers threw for 4002 in 2019.

Rookie WRs come into the league better prepared than before, but Justin Jefferson and JaMarr Chase are the exception and not the rule. They were very polished coming out and were part of a historic CFB offense. Watson and Doubs are nowhere close to that. MVS topped 60 yards four times in his rookie season and had 2 TDs, maybe Watson beats that but he also has to beat Lazard, Watkins, Cobb for snaps and targets. Not saying Watson won't be good, I just think a sanity check and realistic expectations are in order.

Mostly a very good breakdown. I do think you are under estimating Watson just a tad based on the simple fact that someone has to step up and he has the most talent. I also think the gap between Rodgers and Carr is significant not "modest"

That being said, the goal is to win games, not pass for the most yards. The offense will be different. There was almost nowhere to go but down after some record breaking efficiency years. The defense will be pretty damn good. Can they get the ball back in Rodgers hands fast/often enough that he doesn't feel the need to press things. If so, he will work 7 catchers a game with a solid running attack and we will be right in the thick of it at the end of the season.

[texaspackerbacker]

Derek Carr threw for 4800 yards last year, and has been over 4000 yards for 4 years straight with a QB rating averaging in the high 90's during that time. I think this year's version LVR's receivers are better than this year's version of GB's if you include the TEs, and it's not that close.
I also think if you are counting on a rookie WR to get more than 600 yards -- even across 17 games -- you are being very very optimistic, and APRH if you think any will outplay Davante Adams this year you are delusional. There is a modest dropoff from Rodgers to Carr, and Adams will compete with Waller, Renfrow, etc. for targets but he's the clear #1 and will get plenty of throws his way... certainly more than a rookie WR. Also consider the AFCW is going to have a lot of shootouts with the QBs in that division, whereas GB will probably run the ball a lot more since RB is more of a known strength for them with Jones/Dillon.

I think statistically we'll see Rodgers will be fine but won't be as gaudy as the last two years -- his overall yards and completion rate will likely drop and the TDs slightly. I think we'll see more close games like in MLF's first year (2019), less blowouts. I don't think the OP's 3900 yard number is that far off - Rodgers threw for 4002 in 2019.

Rookie WRs come into the league better prepared than before, but Justin Jefferson and JaMarr Chase are the exception and not the rule. They were very polished coming out and were part of a historic CFB offense. Watson and Doubs are nowhere close to that. MVS topped 60 yards four times in his rookie season and had 2 TDs, maybe Watson beats that but he also has to beat Lazard, Watkins, Cobb for snaps and targets. Not saying Watson won't be good, I just think a sanity check and realistic expectations are in order.

I said what I said, and I stand by it. Watson over a thousand yards, Adams up there too, but very possibly less than Watson.

[run pMc]

Mostly a very good breakdown. I do think you are under estimating Watson just a tad based on the simple fact that someone has to step up and he has the most talent. I also think the gap between Rodgers and Carr is significant not "modest"

That being said, the goal is to win games, not pass for the most yards. The offense will be different. There was almost nowhere to go but down after some record breaking efficiency years. The defense will be pretty damn good. Can they get the ball back in Rodgers hands fast/often enough that he doesn't feel the need to press things. If so, he will work 7 catchers a game with a solid running attack and we will be right in the thick of it at the end of the season.

Statistically, the dropoff is modest. Rodgers is a more talented and efficient QB -- he's definitely a better QB, perhaps "significant" is a better term performance-wise. Agree it will be tough for the offense to be better; also agree Rodgers should be inclined to ad-lib less and stick to MLF's scheme while spreading the ball around more. Maybe Watson lights it on fire, but I have a hard time seeing him cracking 1000 yards. We'll know more once we see him in games. I do think he can match MVS' production -- at a minimum, he should be able to fit into the same deep threat role.

Tex: I respect you stating your opinion and standing by it. I disagree and that's ok.

[Upnorth]

7 of the last 10 super bowl winners have had average wr at best.
6 of the last 10 super bowl losers have had average wr at best.

Last couple of years have made the whole we equation go stupid....

I bet the correlation between wr quality and wins is lower than almost every other posotion group, including sexual teams.

[Joemailman]

Packers are elite at QB and RB. If OL approaches 2020 levels (Pre-Bakh injury) offense will be hard to stop.

[RashanGary]

Packers are elite at QB and RB. If OL approaches 2020 levels (Pre-Bakh injury) offense will be hard to stop.

I agree with this. 2015 we had a hobbled Adams, Randall Cobb and a 31 year old James Jones. Jordy missed the year with injury.

But the OL was Bakh, Sitton, Lindsley, Lang and Bulaga. We made the playoffs with a crappy defense and crappy special teams on the strength of QB and Fat Eddie.

[RashanGary]

Ive been down on Lazard having a big year because I just dont think hes talented enough. But if 31 year old James Jones can get 890 yards as the only outside receiver, Lazard could get 900 too.

If the OL holds up, Rodgers will be able to put it right on the spot and our guys will produce. If Rodgers is harassed early, he wont be able to throw perfect balls, and the offense will struggle.

Im with Joe on the OL being the difference.

[texaspackerbacker]

https://www.tmz.com/2022/07/02/brett-favre-expecting-drop-off-for-davante-adams-after-leaving-aaron-rodgers/?adid=social-fb&fbclid=IwAR2fPO0U7szqwQ9W09u-bZ2G-xhB2d53SCueAtTf6zg39dxJz3Y9AgdrL

Nice to see Brett Favre agrees with what I've been saying.

[bobblehead]

https://www.tmz.com/2022/07/02/brett-favre-expecting-drop-off-for-davante-adams-after-leaving-aaron-rodgers/?adid=social-fb&fbclid=IwAR2fPO0U7szqwQ9W09u-bZ2G-xhB2d53SCueAtTf6zg39dxJz3Y9AgdrL

Nice to see Brett Favre agrees with what I've been saying.

We all expect a drop off. I'm even on record saying it'll be sizeable. But we don't go so far as saying a rookie 2nd rounder will outproduce him....and neither did Brent. And saying a hill billy agrees with you as some sort of salvo to your intellect...well....

[MadScientist]

https://www.tmz.com/2022/07/02/brett-favre-expecting-drop-off-for-davante-adams-after-leaving-aaron-rodgers/?adid=social-fb&fbclid=IwAR2fPO0U7szqwQ9W09u-bZ2G-xhB2d53SCueAtTf6zg39dxJz3Y9AgdrL

Nice to see Brett Favre agrees with what I've been saying.

Favre must have blocked out his performance in 2005 when he had no receiving talent around him.

[wthigoot]

I am thinking JAGuara (Deguara) could break out and have a pretty good year. If he can get lost in coverage and catch passes in the mid-range, he can be effective.

Doesn't have to be Gronk, just move the chains.

[RashanGary]

There are very few TEs who make it at 6-2. Deguara probably isnt gonna be much.

[bobblehead]

There are very few TEs who make it at 6-2. Deguara probably isnt gonna be much.

He is more of an H back and there are many fullback types who have been effective in that role over the years. They don't put up gaudy stats, just move the chains and make an offense better. Keith Jackson was 6'2" but he also ran a high 4.4

[Joemailman]

Favre must have blocked out his performance in 2005 when he had no receiving talent around him.

Actually he had Driver in the prime of his career. The bigger problem was that they had no running game due to injuries at RB. Samkon Gado led the Packers in rushing.

[run pMc]

Actually he had Driver in the prime of his career. The bigger problem was that they had no running game due to injuries at RB. Samkon Gado led the Packers in rushing.

Yeah they lost Javon Walker & Ahman Green (for the year), Terrence Murphy (forever), Bubba Franks and Robert "Turd" Ferguson (multiple games) to injuries. It's miracle Driver lasted 16 games. When Antonio Chatman is your 2nd leading receiver, it's no wonder you're 4-12. IMO their current roster is more talented with better depth on both Off & Def, and MLF is a better coach than Sherman. WR/TE is a tough place for rookies or young players to step up but it's not out of the question. Curb your expectations though.

I liked Deguara as a Day 3 prospect, his problem is he was overdrafted. Also blowing out his ACL and being 6-2 doesn't help but he's an HB and if used correctly can be productive in some matchups.

[RashanGary]

Lazard just posted some workout pics saying (grinding all summer) on Twitter. He looks to be in great shape. Ive been down on Lazard having a big season, but Im changing my stance. 1,000 yards for Lazard. Book it.

[sharpe1027]

7 of the last 10 super bowl winners have had average wr at best.
6 of the last 10 super bowl losers have had average wr at best.

Last couple of years have made the whole we equation go stupid....

I bet the correlation between wr quality and wins is lower than almost every other posotion group, including sexual teams.

Sexual teams are highly underrated.

[QBME]

Lazard just posted some workout pics saying (grinding all summer) on Twitter. He looks to be in great shape. Ive been down on Lazard having a big season, but Im changing my stance. 1,000 yards for Lazard. Book it.

Totally in on The Lizard.

[Sparkey]

7 of the last 10 super bowl winners have had average wr at best.
6 of the last 10 super bowl losers have had average wr at best.

Last couple of years have made the whole we equation go stupid....

I bet the correlation between wr quality and wins is lower than almost every other posotion group, including sexual teams.

Do you have any film that backs that up ?

[Bretsky]

Lazard just posted some workout pics saying (grinding all summer) on Twitter. He looks to be in great shape. Ive been down on Lazard having a big season, but Im changing my stance. 1,000 yards for Lazard. Book it.


He's a very subpar number one

But maybe if he is GB's 1 AROD gives him a shitload of targets, he plays 17 games, and averages about 60 yards per game. That gets him a thousand, right ?

[RashanGary]

He's a very subpar number one

But maybe if he is GB's 1 AROD gives him a shitload of targets, he plays 17 games, and averages about 60 yards per game. That gets him a thousand, right ?

Yeah. Of all the years we worried about receivers, nothing compares to this one. Im on board this time.

But if the running game is top 5 and the OL holds up for 12, I imagine hell be able to make due.

[Bretsky]

Yeah. Of all the years we worried about receivers, nothing compares to this one. Im on board this time.

But if the running game is top 5 and the OL holds up for 12, I imagine hell be able to make due.


Yup, our WR'ing core is hurting. Above all years, we'll test the AROD makes everybody around him better this year. It'd be amazing if he thrown, say 35 TD's and about 6 picks for 3600 yards. that would be a great season for him and then we have to depend on the running game and defense to excel.

I was very on board with Julio Jones; but then in hearing mediaheads chat he has a reputation for being a guy who really doesn't want to practice much. We don't need that in GB.

[Upnorth]

Do you have any film that backs that up ?

GB porn means green Bay highlights, RIGHT?!?

Also it think 12 gets 3800 yards 40 tds this season. Lots to Jones dillion and cobb

[texaspackerbacker]

No no no. The Packers receiving corps is NOT hurting. Lazard is what he is, for better or worse. He won't be #1 - what will be Watson. But Lazard will be effective in both the passing game and the running game, probably getting near or over a thousand yards. Watkins, Doubs, etc. plus the backs and TEs will all contribute. Rodgers will have another MVP year, and the Packers now more diverse (but still pass first) offense will be feared as much as ever.

[RashanGary]

Every team in the NFL is pass first. From Tampa 68% pass all the way to Philly 51% pass, every single team is pass first. The Packers fall right in the middle at 58% last year.

I could see the packers drop a little from 58% pass to maybe 54% pass and be in the top 10 of most run heavy offenses in 2022. Theyd still, like every team, be pass first but theyd be one of the most run oriented teams in the league.

[Bretsky]

No no no. The Packers receiving corps is NOT hurting. Lazard is what he is, for better or worse. He won't be #1 - what will be Watson. But Lazard will be effective in both the passing game and the running game, probably getting near or over a thousand yards. Watkins, Doubs, etc. plus the backs and TEs will all contribute. Rodgers will have another MVP year, and the Packers now more diverse (but still pass first) offense will be feared as much as ever.



OK Tex time for me to knock some sense into you and let's just call a spade a spade :). THe Packers have one of the worst WR'ing groups in the NFL.

They also might have the best RB due in the NFL; and that combo just might work

[texaspackerbacker]

hahahaha Just keep thinking that and be pleasantly surprised. Watson is gonna be a super star sooner rather than later - mark my words. Everybody including him will be their best selves because of the GOAT throwing it to them and an excellent running game to counter the passing.

That offense and just a mediocre D would put the Packers in the top 4 or 5 in the league, but with the excellent D that we should have, I don't see anybody in the whole league as good as the Packers.

[MadScientist]

hahahaha Just keep thinking that and be pleasantly surprised. Watson is gonna be a super star sooner rather than later - mark my words. Everybody including him will be their best selves because of the GOAT throwing it to them and an excellent running game to counter the passing.

That offense and just a mediocre D would put the Packers in the top 4 or 5 in the league, but with the excellent D that we should have, I don't see anybody in the whole league as good as the Packers.

Watson has the talent to be a superstar, but it's rare for a rookie receiver to be a star, especially with Rodgers demanding perfection.

[texaspackerbacker]

Rodgers demanding perfection will speed up making it happen IMO.

Did any of ya'all see the meme (I saw it in Facebook) of Brett Favre - "And then I went to the Vikings just to show them that even I couldn't get their sorry asses to the Super Bowl".

[George Cumby]

Well, in all fairness, Favre threw that game away and kept them out of the 'Owl.

[George Cumby]

Asking three rookies to make significant contributions in the passing game just seems pie in the sky.

It defies probability that all three are gonna' stud it up their rookie seasons.

Especially with his high holiness demanding perfection.

Really need Rodgers to improve and put Cobb on the bench.

It'd help if Winfree could make a big jump too.

[texaspackerbacker]

Who said three? One athletic freak with supposedly a great attitude and high football IQ as well as a maybe on one other one.

[Upnorth]

Asking three rookies to make significant contributions in the passing game just seems pie in the sky.

It defies probability that all three are gonna' stud it up their rookie seasons.

Especially with his high holiness demanding perfection.

Really need Rodgers to improve and put Cobb on the bench.

It'd help if Winfree could make a big jump too.

The more I think about it the more I don't want a 1000+ yrd rookie. I want a more evenly distributed passing game. I want one to look great, I want them all to be sure handed, but I think I might prefer a even passing attack that relies on jones and dillion to the tune of at least 400 each. Add in 600 from te and we only need 2400 from wr. You get 12 to spread the ball around with his accuracy and knowledge of how to avoid bad passing plays and every d will be confused.

[Joemailman]

Asking three rookies to make significant contributions in the passing game just seems pie in the sky.

It defies probability that all three are gonna' stud it up their rookie seasons.

Especially with his high holiness demanding perfection.

Really need Rodgers to improve and put Cobb on the bench.

It'd help if Winfree could make a big jump too.

Rodgers had a 140+ passer rating rating in 2021 when targeting Cobb. If healthy, Cobb needs to be utilized more, not less. In the games where he was targeted 4 or more times, he was very effective.

If the Packers can get 1000 receiving yards combined out of the 3 rookies, that would be solid rookie production. Another 1700 from the veteran WR's (including Amari), 600 from TE's and 900 from RB's and you're over 4000.

[George Cumby]

Rodgers had a 140+ passer rating rating in 2021 when targeting Cobb. If healthy, Cobb needs to be utilized more, not less. In the games where he was targeted 4 or more times, he was very effective.

If the Packers can get 1000 receiving yards combined out of the 3 rookies, that would be solid rookie production. Another 1700 from the veteran WR's (including Amari), 600 from TE's and 900 from RB's and you're over 4000.

Ok, so your facts and reason are very compelling, but what about my amateurish analysis based on a limited sample size that Cobb is too old, too slow and too injured?

What about my FEELINGS?!

I do like the 1000 yards out of three rookies. That seems super reasonable and attainable.

[Bretsky]

Having Cobb and Amari Rodgers on the roster scares me a bit; I"m not sure either of them are that nfl roster worthy. I hope Rodgers proves me wrong, and Cobb
But Cobb will make the team because Karen wants him on the squad and Rodgers will make the team since he's Gooters guy. Those two things I am sure of.

[bobblehead]

Well, in all fairness, Favre threw that game away and kept them out of the 'Owl.

Yea. Its the only reason I never totally disowned old Bert.

[bobblehead]

Having Cobb and Amari Rodgers on the roster scares me a bit; I"m not sure either of them are that nfl roster worthy. I hope Rodgers proves me wrong, and Cobb
But Cobb will make the team because Karen wants him on the squad and Rodgers will make the team since he's Gooters guy. Those two things I am sure of.

I'm not sold on it. You are likely correct, but I could see scenarios where either or neither is on the roster. Karen wants Cobb, but he wanted Adams as well. And having cobb is of limited damage since he won't be taking a roster spot after about week 5 when he is on the DL again.

[run pMc]

Overall roster construction is going to be very interesting - I think it will be a little different on the fringes because of special teams.
Cobb not being much of a ST contributor anymore is a minus for him, (I bet Doubs is the PR) but maybe Bisaccia finds a role for him and Amari. You have to get ST contributions from your receivers, so I'd think Watson and Doubs get cracks at KR and PR respectively. Toure might not make the cut -- it depends on Watkins and Amari. If either of them are lemons he could stick. As it is I have trouble seeing them keeping more than 6 on the roster, which is bad news for Winfree and Taylor. Cobb stays. Amari is on the bubble but I think Gute pushes hard for him to stay as a R3 pick last year, else they will ship in out in a trade for another player who is flaming out on some other team (i.e., the Josh Jackson special). Lazard and Watkins go into camp as the presumptive top WRs, and if Sammy has anything in the tank he'll stick.

You're probably looking at Lazard, Watkins, Cobb, Watson, Doubs, and Amari as your 6, with Toure and Winfree as your PS guys if they clear waivers.
I think Tonyan will be back, and maybe Davis/Deguara give them something but I don't expect them to become overnight sensations. Lewis is a slightly undersized OT you can catch, at this point. Dafney is a Deguara clone who might push him for snaps and can play ST, could easily be the odd man out. If Tonyan isn't ready for Week 1 I could see him stick. Davis/Deguara will continue to play ST... TE and LBs usually have the mix of size/speed the ST coaches like running down the field.

Hardly a murderer's row of receivers, and a far cry from the 2011 squad (Driver, Jennings, Nelson, Jones, rookie Cobb w/ Finley as a featured TE).

[RashanGary]

Weve never seen Favre or Rodgers this thin at WR. I have no clue how this is going to go. But Favre helped Bill Shroeder get 1,000 yards for a few seasons. This could be like the 2000-2002 packers where Green lead the way and Favre made due with a Freeman aging not so gracefully and Shroeder.

It will be interesting to see it all come together.

The OL could go a few directions too.

With the QB and the RBs and hopefully a solid OL, they should be able to make a few things happen. Plus good defense and special teams. It will be a brand of football we havent seen in a while.

[RashanGary]

We need a few luck bounces on the OL and I like the offenses chances.

[Upnorth]

Weve never seen Favre or Rodgers this thin at WR. I have no clue how this is going to go. But Favre helped Bill Shroeder get 1,000 yards for a few seasons. This could be like the 2000-2002 packers where Green lead the way and Favre made due with a Freeman aging not so gracefully and Shroeder.

It will be interesting to see it all come together.

The OL could go a few directions too.

With the QB and the RBs and hopefully a solid OL, they should be able to make a few things happen. Plus good defense and special teams. It will be a brand of football we havent seen in a while.

The years where green was our keading reciever (at least for catches), did that correspond to oline issues? Or was it just receivers. For reference from 200 to 2003 green averaged 60.5 catches per year. He was targeted 78.75 per year over that span.

I kinda think our rb committee will be those numbers or higher.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'd argue that neither Favre nor Rodgers ever had as completely talented team around them as this. For the first time in basically forever, we actually could win games with our defense. That wasn't even the case in the Reggie White years. Even all the way back to Lombardi, the D just kept it close and the offense won it. I'm not a believer in the importance of the O Line with Rodgers at QB, but arguably we have more depth there and better run blocking than in a long time. All that, and the receivers are probably gonna be damn good too. Commentators are saying Watkins hasn't looked this good in years. and I'm firmly convinced that Watson is gonna be an all out superstar.

[Upnorth]

I'd argue that neither Favre nor Rodgers ever had as completely talented team around them as this. For the first time in basically forever, we actually could win games with our defense. That wasn't even the case in the Reggie White years. Even all the way back to Lombardi, the D just kept it close and the offense won it. I'm not a believer in the importance of the O Line with Rodgers at QB, but arguably we have more depth there and better run blocking than in a long time. All that, and the receivers are probably gonna be damn good too. Commentators are saying Watkins hasn't looked this good in years. and I'm firmly convinced that Watson is gonna be an all out superstar.

In my wildest dreams I dont think our d will match 1996. Might be 1997 but that is still at worst top 5 in league, and we might be that. My fear is p smith regresses or we have an injury and have to swing quay outside.
Oh and since this is a thread about wr I think this group is comparable to 1996 except instead of a kieth Jackson te being our best reciever it is jones and dillion.

Stay on target....;)

[RashanGary]

The Packers have a little bit of a an unforeseen outside chance at getting production from Malik Taylor and Juann Winfree.

There was a puff piece by Tyler Dunne on Winfrey this off season. He was a 4 star recruit who had some bumps in the road in college but may have some talent above most undrafted players. One of Winfree or Taylor could surprise and beat out one of the drafted players or Cobb or Amari.

[texaspackerbacker]

I don't have much hope for Winfrey, but Malik Taylor is a physical freak, just a shade less size and speed than MVS along with possibly better ability to catch the ball. Just the same, both he and Winfrey are likely to be the odd men out among WRs. They seem to be hung up on giving Amari another chance to mess up again instead. I hope we could retain Taylor on the Practice Squad, but I kinda doubt that will happen. Somebody will sign him.

[bobblehead]

The Packers have a little bit of a an unforeseen outside chance at getting production from Malik Taylor and Juann Winfree.

There was a puff piece by Tyler Dunne on Winfrey this off season. He was a 4 star recruit who had some bumps in the road in college but may have some talent above most undrafted players. One of Winfree or Taylor could surprise and beat out one of the drafted players or Cobb or Amari.

I think each of the WR we recognize has a really good shot at the roster with 1 or 2 being near locks for the practice squad. Of course Lazard/Watson are the lead pipe locks with Cobb/Watkins/Doubs next most likely to make final cut. That leaves Winfree/Taylor/Rogers/Toure fighting for a spot or 2 and practice squad. There could be a camp surprise who bumps one of those names off the PS as well. This is the most unsettled group on the roster probably followed by OLB.

[run pMc]

I don't have much hope for Winfrey, but Malik Taylor is a physical freak, just a shade less size and speed than MVS along with possibly better ability to catch the ball. Just the same, both he and Winfrey are likely to be the odd men out among WRs. They seem to be hung up on giving Amari another chance to mess up again instead. I hope we could retain Taylor on the Practice Squad, but I kinda doubt that will happen. Somebody will sign him.

All these guys are physical marvels. Taylor is over 2" shorter than MVS and a .09 slower in the 40 with smaller hands, etc. and he comes from a D2 school. He's a different kind of receiver than MVS. I think Winfree is probably ahead of Taylor but you never know what will happen. I do think he's enough of a prospect for some team (including GB) to stash him on a PS. He can play ST and maybe that's how he sticks but I don't think he's even a 500 yard receiver at this point. I suppose injuries could hit them and he sticks because of that.

Amari gets a shot because they didn't give him many snaps on offense. I'm not sure he can run, but maybe a full offseason and dropping weight will help. He was very productive in college for what was a top program; that plus being a Day 2 pick last year counts for something. If he looks bad I could see them trying to trade him but I think he sticks. Not holding out a lot of hope but who knows - camp hasn't started. I think they should draft OL, CB and WR every draft - you'll always need them. With some WRs getting QB money contracts it makes sense.

[Upnorth]

Just to change this up a bit, Watson was sometimes in the backfield for jet sweeps at ndsu.


Could you imaging what having dillion and watson in the backfield with Jones out wide does to a secondary? Then put dillion in motion? Dude caught 91% of his passes last year.

And Watson's fast change of direction and speed.... I'm freaking excited!

[Bretsky]

Never thought much of taylor's upside/talent overall. Winfree to me has always been intriguing.


Our WR's won't scare many teams.

[Joemailman]

Packers have given a tryout to WR John Brown. Brown had 1000 yard seasons with Arizona in 2015 and Baltimore in 2019. He's always had blazing speed. Ran a 4.34 40. He's had injuries lately, so don't know how much speed, if any he's lost.

[Arctic Fox]

Hello there. I'm new and I just wanted to add my 2 cents worth. I think the receiving corps will be just fine. Rodgers makes everybody better. I have a feeling that Rodgers and Watkins will get that "chemistry" sooner than most people think. I also believe that with Adams gone, Lazard will want to make some kind of statement. Doubs may produce more than people think, Watson will be a problem for teams that have a less than stellar defense and Jones and Dillon out of the backfield is money in the bank. Not too sure about the tight end situation.. Will Tonyan return this season?

[RashanGary]

Never thought much of taylor's upside/talent overall. Winfree to me has always been intriguing.


Our WR's won't scare many teams.

Bet youd like to go back to the days when Lazard and MVS were our 2nd and 3rd.

Lucky for us, there are 11 guys on offense and not just three receivers. Our QB, RB and probably OL are pretty good.

But still, were gonna need a hell of a defense and STs to win a SB with the receivers we have

[texaspackerbacker]

In fact, Lazard is maybe the second or third best WR now behind Watson and maybe Watkins. And Doebs is probably better than anybody we had below Lazard and MVS before. Replacing Davante's numbers may SEEM difficult, but they were inflated because of Rodgers. Rodgers will be throwing to somebody now, and I expect the end result to be as good or better than when Davante was there. The team was highly successful when Adams was out with injuries, and the receivers then were a helluva lot worse that what we have now. So R E L A X.

[Bretsky]

Bet youd like to go back to the days when Lazard and MVS were our 2nd and 3rd.

Lucky for us, there are 11 guys on offense and not just three receivers. Our QB, RB and probably OL are pretty good.

But still, were gonna need a hell of a defense and STs to win a SB with the receivers we have



Truth be told I'm not ALL Golden boy Gute like so many in here; he's been fine. Above average. But he still has some serious weaknesses as far as his people management skills and he left the cup bare when Devante was here, and then rather than signing him a full year ago he let this drag out and let a superstar leave when he should have locked him up long long ago.

[RashanGary]

Truth be told I'm not ALL Golden boy Gute like so many in here; he's been fine. Above average. But he still has some serious weaknesses as far as his people management skills and he left the cup bare when Devante was here, and then rather than signing him a full year ago he let this drag out and let a superstar leave when he should have locked him up long long ago.

Im not sold on Gute either. Its hard to win a sb but I dont like the way he manages the cap and he never hits outside the top two rounds.

Receiver looks like its going to stub our toe in the playoffs. I dont like our chances with the guys we have. But we have a bunch of guys. One or two might step up. Im crossing my fingers. If we have a dominant running game the offense has a shot.

[bobblehead]

Hello there. I'm new and I just wanted to add my 2 cents worth. I think the receiving corps will be just fine. Rodgers makes everybody better. I have a feeling that Rodgers and Watkins will get that "chemistry" sooner than most people think. I also believe that with Adams gone, Lazard will want to make some kind of statement. Doubs may produce more than people think, Watson will be a problem for teams that have a less than stellar defense and Jones and Dillon out of the backfield is money in the bank. Not too sure about the tight end situation.. Will Tonyan return this season?

Welcome aboard. I think we will see the same Sammy as always. Come week 4 we will all be giddy with the STEAL of a signing. Come week 6 we will all be trying to figure out who will pick up the slack for sammy as he sits on the sidelines for the rest of the season.

[bobblehead]

Im not sold on Gute either. Its hard to win a sb but I dont like the way he manages the cap and he never hits outside the top two rounds.

Receiver looks like its going to stub our toe in the playoffs. I dont like our chances with the guys we have. But we have a bunch of guys. One or two might step up. Im crossing my fingers. If we have a dominant running game the offense has a shot.

As you know I have come full circle on Gutes. He has one major flaw and that is selling out the cap instead of making the hard choice to tag and trade a guy like Adams....but he got bailed out anyway by adams refusing to put us further into cap hell.

He hasn't hit outside the top 2 YET. Slayton, Newman, Hill from last year have promise. Runyan and MVS contributed. His churning the bottom of the roster to find guys like douglas and Campbell more than makes up for it. Also he has made up for it by trading his 4ths to move up and improve talent. Right now Jordan Love is the HUGE black mark on his resume. That has yet to play out. I would rather hit studs in rounds 1 and 2 (while aquiriing extra 1s as we have) than hit solid in round 4 and 5. You can churn the vet minimums to get contribution similar to that, but you have to pay big time to make up for missing your firsts.

[MadScientist]

In fact, Lazard is maybe the second or third best WR now behind Watson and maybe Watkins. And Doebs is probably better than anybody we had below Lazard and MVS before. Replacing Davante's numbers may SEEM difficult, but they were inflated because of Rodgers. Rodgers will be throwing to somebody now, and I expect the end result to be as good or better than when Davante was there. The team was highly successful when Adams was out with injuries, and the receivers then were a helluva lot worse that what we have now. So R E L A X.

Lazard is the only one with Rodgers trust. Watkins is a vet so he can figure it out pretty quick, but he was available for a reason. Nobody knows what he brings now, or how long he can stay in the field. Rookies have never produced with Rodgers as qb. If Watkins gets 500 yards, that would be the best rookie under Rodgers.

[Joemailman]

Lizard is the only one with Rodgers trust. Watkins is a vet so he can figure it out pretty quick, but he was available for a reason. Nobody knows what he brings now, or how long he can stay in the field. Rookies have never produced with Rodgers as qb. If Watkins gets 500 yards, that would be the best rookie under Rodgers.

I assume you meant Watson. At any rate, not really true. MVS had 581 yards as a rookie though he only started 10 games. And St. Brown was getting the ball late in the season after he returned from an injury. MVS and St. Brown combined for over 900 yards as rookies. Rodgers will likely focus on the vets early, but if Watson and Doubs progress, Rodgers will involve them in the offense.

[bobblehead]

I'm going to go on record now with calling this Gutes best draft OUTSIDE the first 2 rounds.

Rhyan, Tom, Walker is a great OL haul. I think all 3 become NFL starters. Walker is a health concern, but worth it as a 7th.

Enagbare tested poorly but had success against top SEC talent.

Rodgers will likely make Doubs or Toure look like a good pick.

I can't recall liking an entire draft as much as I like this one to be honest....Quay Walker aside who wasn't even on my radar at all coming in. He was however part of an all time great college defense.

[texaspackerbacker]

Lizard is the only one with Rodgers trust. Watkins is a vet so he can figure it out pretty quick, but he was available for a reason. Nobody knows what he brings now, or how long he can stay in the field. Rookies have never produced with Rodgers as qb. If Watkins gets 500 yards, that would be the best rookie under Rodgers.

That Rodgers trust thing is overrated. Anybody who shows he can run routes and catch passes will quickly get Rodgers' trust. Practice will be more meaningful this season. Without Adams, Rodgers will quickly develop trust in one, two, more, or all of the WRs. I fully expect Watson to have over a thousand receiving yards and a helluva lot on runs also. Doubs, Watkins, Lazard, whoever, Rodgers will throw to whoever is open - as he did the weeks Adams was out - with great success. I expect or at least hope that they won't overuse Watkins, and his injury proneness will be a thing of the past.

[run pMc]

No hits outside top 2? Jon Runyan Jr.? MVS wasn't a homerun but I'd say he was a hit for being a R5 pick.

Watkins has lost a step but if he can stay healthy he's still a decent player. The lights aren't too bright for him, and his route running isn't bad. He might not make the roster or he might be WR1 in Week 1.
I don't expect a lot from the rookies until mid-season, so my expectations of their production is much lower than Tex's. Mostly I want to see the the rookies get better each week and hope they make a big jump next year. They will need to make contributions this year but it's going to be the vets leading the way: Lazard, Cobb, Watkins. Interesting they all essentially have one year contracts; opens the door for the rookies next year to emerge.

[RashanGary]

Sounds like the receiving corpse had a good day on the first day of camp. Big catches by Lazard, Winfree and Doubs. Good day from Rodgers.

Rodgers singled out Winfree as a guy with talent who could make a case this year.

[MadScientist]

Sounds like the receiving corpse had a good day on the first day of camp. Big catches by Lazard, Winfree and Doubs. Good day from Rodgers.

Rodgers singled out Winfree as a guy with talent who could make a case this year.

Well that's the kiss of death for him now, isn't it. It's just a question of how soon he gets cut.

[RashanGary]

Well that's the kiss of death for him now, isn't it. It's just a question of how soon he gets cut.

He liked Lazard right away.

[Joemailman]

Winfree has been decent, but at this point I would say Toure is ahead of him in the passing game. I don't know where the 2 players rank on special teams.

[run pMc]

It sounds like Watkins is likely to make the roster, which means Watkins, Lazard, Cobb, Watson, Doubs, appear to be locks at this point, with Rodgers, Winfree and Toure fighting for 1 spot, if we assume they keep 6 WR.
I think Rodgers has the edge on the basis of his draft status and it sounds like he's having a decent camp, plus there's a chance Bisaccia can get some ST value from him (or else he wouldn't be practicing at KR and PR).

My guess is Malik Taylor and Ishmael Hyman are cuts, and Winfree and Toure cut and signed to the PS.

I suppose it's possible they keep 7 WR, but it would be at the expense of another position (TE? CB/S? OL?)

[Joemailman]

It sounds like Watkins is likely to make the roster, which means Watkins, Lazard, Cobb, Watson, Doubs, appear to be locks at this point, with Rodgers, Winfree and Toure fighting for 1 spot, if we assume they keep 6 WR.
I think Rodgers has the edge on the basis of his draft status and it sounds like he's having a decent camp, plus there's a chance Bisaccia can get some ST value from him (or else he wouldn't be practicing at KR and PR).

My guess is Malik Taylor and Ishmael Hyman are cuts, and Winfree and Toure cut and signed to the PS.

I suppose it's possible they keep 7 WR, but it would be at the expense of another position (TE? CB/S? OL?)

I think they can find room for 7 WR's because they will likely keep just 2 QB's and 3 RB's. They may want to keep that many with Watkins, Cobb and Lazard all unrestricted free agents. Am Rodgers isn't going anywhere, so if there is a 7th it will be between Winfree and Toure.

[RashanGary]

Cobb and/or Watkins could be cut if the young guys step up.

[call_me_ishmael]

0% Cobb is getting cut. He's here for a reason. I could see Watkins not making the team though. I think it's fairly unlikely, though, given how inexperienced the group is. I think if he is cut, they will look for another high ceiling vet in a similar mold.

[texaspackerbacker]

Let Cobb graduate to being some sort of coach if 3, 4, or more of the rookies and other young guys outplay him. I thought originally too that maybe Watkins would be cut, as they could do it without much of any dead money, etc. But supposedly he is looking really good and fitting in good in Green Bay. Keep him and if he does end up getting hurt, use some of that nice depth it's looking like we have now at WR.

[bobblehead]

It sounds like Watkins is likely to make the roster, which means Watkins, Lazard, Cobb, Watson, Doubs, appear to be locks at this point, with Rodgers, Winfree and Toure fighting for 1 spot, if we assume they keep 6 WR.
I think Rodgers has the edge on the basis of his draft status and it sounds like he's having a decent camp, plus there's a chance Bisaccia can get some ST value from him (or else he wouldn't be practicing at KR and PR).

My guess is Malik Taylor and Ishmael Hyman are cuts, and Winfree and Toure cut and signed to the PS.

I suppose it's possible they keep 7 WR, but it would be at the expense of another position (TE? CB/S? OL?)

They keep 7 knowing that Cobb and Watkins will both play about 6 games each.

[SudsMcBucky]

They keep 7 knowing that Cobb and Watkins will both play about 6 games each.

Exactly my thoughts, too.

[Fritz]

I think they can find room for 7 WR's because they will likely keep just 2 QB's and 3 RB's. They may want to keep that many with Watkins, Cobb and Lazard all unrestricted free agents. Am Rodgers isn't going anywhere, so if there is a 7th it will be between Winfree and Toure.

I don't know, Joe. Maybe he's not playing much because they are sure they're keeping him, so they want to see what else they've got. Thus, you'd be right. Or maybe he's not playing much because they hope to slip him onto the practice squad? Or what if Gutekunst and LeFleur have concluded that it was not a good pick? The guy is not an elite athlete and has shown almost nothing so far.

I'm not sure. You might be right, but I'm not certain he's a lock, as you think. I think that Toure has shown more so far than Rodgers, and seems more versatile on special teams.

[Joemailman]

I don't know, Joe. Maybe he's not playing much because they are sure they're keeping him, so they want to see what else they've got. Thus, you'd be right. Or maybe he's not playing much because they hope to slip him onto the practice squad? Or what if Gutekunst and LeFleur have concluded that it was not a good pick? The guy is not an elite athlete and has shown almost nothing so far.

I'm not sure. You might be right, but I'm not certain he's a lock, as you think. I think that Toure has shown more so far than Rodgers, and seems more versatile on special teams.

Am Rodgers isn't having a bad camp. You just don't here about him much because he's the backup slot receiver. Cobb didn't do any team work today so Rodgers was in there. Rodgers had 2 catches for 30 yards in 2 minute drill. I see Rodgers the same way I see Deguara. Neither are elite athletes, but are well suited to fill a certain role in this offense.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Amari was given player of the day in todays practice according to one of the Youtube scribes.

[Fritz]

Am Rodgers isn't having a bad camp. You just don't here about him much because he's the backup slot receiver. Cobb didn't do any team work today so Rodgers was in there. Rodgers had 2 catches for 30 yards in 2 minute drill. I see Rodgers the same way I see Deguara. Neither are elite athletes, but are well suited to fill a certain role in this offense.

I've certainly been wrong before (see Gary, Rashan) and will be again. I just didn't see anything much to like out of Rodgers last year. Contrary, I did like Davante Adams his rookie year and even when he backslid I thought he'd be good. So I don't ascribe not liking Amari Rodgers to nothing more than him being inexperienced. He just didn't show much - not burst, not guts, not hands.

But again, I would not be surprised that my scouting skills prove wrong again, as I base opinions on little evidence. It'd be great if he did prove me wrong and turned out to be good in a certain role.

[Joemailman]

Rodgers was not in good shape last year. The guy I saw in a Packer uniform didn't resemble the guy at Clemson. That's on him. But he's corrected his mistake. He's gone from 218 pounds to 202. I don't know how many opportunities he'll get as long as Cobb is healthy, but he looks like a different player.

[bobblehead]

Welcome aboard. I think we will see the same Sammy as always. Come week 4 we will all be giddy with the STEAL of a signing. Come week 6 we will all be trying to figure out who will pick up the slack for sammy as he sits on the sidelines for the rest of the season.

Seems I was overly optimistic.

[Fritz]

You were. Two games in.

I would think, given Watson's lack of availability also, that it'll be a heavy dose of Dillon and Jones and Tonyan, with a sprinkling of Mercedes Lewis. Rodgers will be averse to throwing to any wide receiver not named Lazard or Cobb, and if Cobb's already not 100%, how long will he last?

I am growing a bit disappointed in Christian Watson. Yes, it's very early. Yes. I get that. But so far the dude got hurt before training camp playing basketball, I think, and was absent for the vast majority of camp. He gets a TD pass thrown to him in his first game, he drops it. Supposedly is electric and getting open but nothing to show for it yet. And now he's hurt again. I'm not saying he'll be a failure, but the lack of availability out of the gate is a concern. He can learn to catch better and all that, but I sure hope that he's not going to get the nickname "The oft-injured" Christian Watson.

[texaspackerbacker]

What we have is enough for today. I'm still confident Watson is gonna be great even if he sits out today. Lazard hopefully is 100% or close; Doubs has the ability to really shine, and hopefully it's on display today. Toure may be raw, but he's good. Rodgers likes Winfree and will be trying to get him involved. And whatever bug Cobb had, he should be good enough. Oh yeah, then there's Amari. Hopefully he surprises and does something positive, although I wouldn't bet on that last one. I want them to get the TEs, especially Tonyan involved too. Keeping them in to help pass block, as I think they did a lot last week, allows the opponents' ILBs more freedom to help stop the run. That's harder if they are out in the short zones covering TEs.

I'm about as down on Watkins as the rest of ya'all, I guess. However, with the new IR rules, he can come back in 4 weeks as I understand it. I think that happens, and he still contributes this season.

[smuggler]

We were in bad shape today once Tampa figured out they just needed to remove Doubs from the equation.

[Joemailman]

We were in bad shape today once Tampa figured out they just needed to remove Doubs from the equation.

They need Watson back to make the jet motion a threat. They obviously don't think Am Rod can handle it.

[texaspackerbacker]

I don't like Watson used that way. It seems like kinda a waste. What they need him for is to be a deep threat like Lazard just doesn't have the speed to be. Mostly, the motion is just used to show if it is man or zone coverage, and Deguara was enough for that.

[RashanGary]

If Doubs is the next great Packer WR and Watson is the next MVS, we’re in pretty good shape.

[bobblehead]

If Doubs is the next great Packer WR and Watson is the next MVS, we’re in pretty good shape.

I'm hoping for something closer to Jordy and Jennings.

[Joemailman]

I think the floor for Watson would be a James Jones type career. Jones never had 1000 yards, but had between 600 and 900 7 times. Actually I think he has a chance to be like Javon Walker. Hopefully he doesn't have family members who want him to leave Green Bay.

[Joemailman]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fdf7kuZX0AAe932?format=jpg&name=medium

[George Cumby]

^ Hahahahahahahahahaha.

[run pMc]

I don't like Watson used that way. It seems like kinda a waste. What they need him for is to be a deep threat like Lazard just doesn't have the speed to be. Mostly, the motion is just used to show if it is man or zone coverage, and Deguara was enough for that.

You would not use Deguara for jet motion lol.

Jet motion is not standard motion. When has Deguara taken a handoff on a jet motion? I've seen him and Tonyan motion plenty to help reveal coverage or because of a line call, but that's very different.
Jet motion uses the threat of an end around (or a reverse) and you need speed or RAC ability for that, neither of which a TE has. Watson ran jets at NDSU, it's part of his highlights, he did it a bunch actually. It's fine to use him that way. They would've used MVS more that way except he didn't have the vision/instincts to do it. Watson does.

I think if you're going to run jets you vary like they have with both Watson and Doubs doing it. Doubs was a RB in high school so he has some of that ability, plus you don't always want the same player doing it. Watson should be mostly used in an X receiver role, not a gadget/jet role though. Similarly with Doubs IMO. Put them in jet maybe a couple of times in a game but that's it.

[Joemailman]

You would not use Deguara for jet motion lol.

Jet motion is not standard motion. When has Deguara taken a handoff on a jet motion? I've seen him and Tonyan motion plenty to help reveal coverage or because of a line call, but that's very different.
Jet motion uses the threat of an end around (or a reverse) and you need speed or RAC ability for that, neither of which a TE has. Watson ran jets at NDSU, it's part of his highlights, he did it a bunch actually. It's fine to use him that way. They would've used MVS more that way except he didn't have the vision/instincts to do it. Watson does.

I think if you're going to run jets you vary like they have with both Watson and Doubs doing it. Doubs was a RB in high school so he has some of that ability, plus you don't always want the same player doing it. Watson should be mostly used in an X receiver role, not a gadget/jet role though. Similarly with Doubs IMO. Put them in jet maybe a couple of times in a game but that's it.

I think they drafted Am Rod to run the jet sweep. Problem is he doesn't seem to have the speed to force teams to react to it. That's why they were using Watson last week. Deebo Samuel is the prototype.

[texaspackerbacker]

You would not use Deguara for jet motion lol.

Jet motion is not standard motion. When has Deguara taken a handoff on a jet motion? I've seen him and Tonyan motion plenty to help reveal coverage or because of a line call, but that's very different.
Jet motion uses the threat of an end around (or a reverse) and you need speed or RAC ability for that, neither of which a TE has. Watson ran jets at NDSU, it's part of his highlights, he did it a bunch actually. It's fine to use him that way. They would've used MVS more that way except he didn't have the vision/instincts to do it. Watson does.

I think if you're going to run jets you vary like they have with both Watson and Doubs doing it. Doubs was a RB in high school so he has some of that ability, plus you don't always want the same player doing it. Watson should be mostly used in an X receiver role, not a gadget/jet role though. Similarly with Doubs IMO. Put them in jet maybe a couple of times in a game but that's it.

Of course they're not gonna hand it to Deguara (but never say never) - just like Braelon Allen or Derrick Henry are "never" gonna pass from the wildcat or the Fridge ain't gonna run it or QBs split way out on wildcat plays are never gonna get passes thrown to them. But the D has to cover against the possibility just the same.

The only real difference between "jet motion" and "standard motion" is when they hand the guy the ball. It's probably a good idea to use Watson that way rarely - like MVS, like they did Watson in college (remember the films - they even used Watson on straight handoffs as an RB a few times in college). I just don't like having them waste Watson's talent by motion over and over and over, pretty much taking him away as a deep threat.

You're absolutely correct in your last line. Keep the other team guessing.

[Fritz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8V1nFCP058

[run pMc]

I think they drafted Am Rod to run the jet sweep. Problem is he doesn't seem to have the speed to force teams to react to it. That's why they were using Watson last week. Deebo Samuel is the prototype.

Agree. Amari has some RAC ability but doesn't have the speed or vision Deebo does.
Deebo's a tough dude but I think SF is going to shorten his career by running him as much as they do.

They could still use Amari in that role, although there's some debate over why you would give your WR6 snaps... every snap your WR6 plays means taking snaps away from someone ahead of him (i.e., better) on the depth chart.

[bobblehead]

Agree. Amari has some RAC ability but doesn't have the speed or vision Deebo does.
Deebo's a tough dude but I think SF is going to shorten his career by running him as much as they do.

They could still use Amari in that role, although there's some debate over why you would give your WR6 snaps... every snap your WR6 plays means taking snaps away from someone ahead of him (i.e., better) on the depth chart.

Sadly Amari and DeGuerra are not even close to Deebo and Juszyzyck. Fortunately Handsome Jimmy nor Trey are even close to Rodgers.

[George Cumby]

I thought they drafted Amari to be the new Cobb, but he just hasn't shown and unless something changes to the good this year, his days are limited in GB.

Deguara is a plodder who they drafted to be an H-back/full-back type. On the plays I've specifically watched him, I've only seen him really seal his guy off once, that was Sunday.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I will take poor mans Davante for Doubs and rich mans MVS for Watson.

[Fritz]

Any word on whether Watson is even available on Sunday?

I admit to being disappointed with Deguara. It seemed like a reach of a pick, but KYPack liked him, so I thought maybe they all knew something I clearly did not. But Deguara looks like a sixth-round pick kinda guy - a plodder who is just good enough to stay on the 53.

I have to admit Amari Rodgers had a nice return on Sunday (negated of course), and that he is heading north and south more quickly than last year. But the dude also fumbled one, and I'm not sure you use a roster spot on a guy who is ONLY a returner unless he's a fabulous returner. Which he is not.

If I were the Packer brass, I'd be thinking of asking Kylin Hill to practice catching punts once he can start practicing. And I'd also be asking Toure to do the same.

[run pMc]

Amari's gone next year unless he shows something between now and .. let's say next June. I think they know what they have with him, but he's locked in on a rookie contract and maybe there's still some upside.
(I don't think there is.)

Seems like a case of a good CFB WR who lacks the physical traits to be a good pro WR.
I mean, he's not terrible (ahem J'Mon), but he's a short receiver and not a burner; those guys usually don't excel. His lack of snaps on offense likely hasn't helped his development, but I'm not sure he's shown anything to justify giving him snaps either. Comparing recent R3 picks -- I'd say he's better than Jace but not as good as Burks or Deguara.

They'll probably draft someone to return punts next year. Kylin Hill was returning kickoffs, not sure he's done PR or would be good at it. PR and KR are different skills, but I'd keep that competition open.

[Bretsky]

I admit to being disappointed with Deguara. It seemed like a reach of a pick, but KYPack liked him, so I thought maybe they all knew something I clearly did not. But Deguara looks like a sixth-round pick kinda guy - a plodder who is just good enough to stay on the 53.





I'm not really disappointed in Deguara; he's just a hard nosed try hard guy with little to no upside. I never expected anything. He's a guy you cheer for after you pick him in the last rounds, and roll your eyes when you consider GB grabbed him in round 3.

[MadScientist]

Of course they're not gonna hand it to Deguara (but never say never) - just like Braelon Allen or Derrick Henry are "never" gonna pass from the wildcat or the Fridge ain't gonna run it or QBs split way out on wildcat plays are never gonna get passes thrown to them. But the D has to cover against the possibility just the same.

The only real difference between "jet motion" and "standard motion" is when they hand the guy the ball. It's probably a good idea to use Watson that way rarely - like MVS, like they did Watson in college (remember the films - they even used Watson on straight handoffs as an RB a few times in college). I just don't like having them waste Watson's talent by motion over and over and over, pretty much taking him away as a deep threat.

You're absolutely correct in your last line. Keep the other team guessing.
It's only a waste of Watson's talent if Rodgers throws the ball to him down field.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Deguara is playing pretty well this year. I think people expect too much of a late 3rd round pick. Here were the players drafted after Deguara in round 3 of that draft. Alex Highsmith is the only one who is clearly better. Trautman has probably had a similar career.

DEN McTelvin Agim - 12 tackles, 1.5 sacks in career
KC Lucas Niang - 9 career starts
CLE Jacob Phillips - 4 career starts
BAL Malik Harrison - 13 career starts (0 sacks, 0 interceptions, 0 forced fumbles, 1 pass deflection in career)
NYG Matt Peart - 6 career starts
LV Tanner Muse - cut after his rookie year
NE Dalton Keene - cut after his 2nd year
PIT Alex Highsmith - average NFL starter
PHI Davion Taylor - On practice squad
LAR Terrell Burgess - Backup (2 career starts)
TE Adam Trautman - blocking TE (has 1 reception this year)
BAL Tyre Phillips - cut after his 2nd year

[run pMc]

Yeah, Highsmith is a good player. Hadn't looked at that list in a while, not great...even R4 looks rough.

I liked Deguara as a R5 guy, R3 was overdrafting him but I get why they did it. He's ok but he's no Juscyzczczczck.
Not going to hate on him because Gute took him early.

[RashanGary]

Romeo Doubs is second best odds to win rookie of the year. Not bad for a 4th round pick.

[RashanGary]

Romeo Doubs rookie of the week

[bobblehead]

I will take poor mans Davante for Doubs and rich mans MVS for Watson.

I'm trying to come up with a Doubs comp. I can't really find one. Maybe a Michael Thomas is as close as I can come.

[bobblehead]

I'm not really disappointed in Deguara; he's just a hard nosed try hard guy with little to no upside. I never expected anything. He's a guy you cheer for after you pick him in the last rounds, and roll your eyes when you consider GB grabbed him in round 3.

Good post. 100% concur. If he were a 5th rounder and hadn't been hurt we would be cheering him.

[RashanGary]

I'm trying to come up with a Doubs comp. I can't really find one. Maybe a Michael Thomas is as close as I can come.

He’s built like Justin Jefferson. Similar skill set.

[Fritz]

Good post. 100% concur. If he were a 5th rounder and hadn't been hurt we would be cheering him.

Ah, the problem of expectations.

[run pMc]

He’s built like Justin Jefferson. Similar skill set.

He reminds me more of Davante or James Jones. His ability to separate and routes are good for a rookie, his hands need a little work.

[Fritz]

He reminds me more of Davante or James Jones. His ability to separate and routes are good for a rookie, his hands need a little work.

Coach Porno has just the hands exercise for Mr. Doubs:

https://image.shutterstock.com/shutterstock/photos/1391526620/display_1500/stock-photo-man-s-hand-is-holding-a-large-green-cucumber-against-a-white-brick-roses-depicting-sensuality-and-1391526620.jpg

[run pMc]

Who is Florida Chuck and why does he have a green penis? Keep it in the Garbage Can lol

[HarveyWallbangers]

Interesting comments from ARod.


zach jacobson
@itszacharyj

Aaron Rodgers just now on @PatMcAfeeShow said that there were times when a rookie Davante Adams wasn’t getting a ton of targets but he was consistently getting open. “You’re thinking, ‘Man, this guy is open. Often.’ It’s like that from time to time with Christian [Watson].”


Pat McAfee
@PatMcAfeeShow

"Doubs & Watson both have the opportunity to be really, really good players in this league" ~@AaronRodgers12

[bobblehead]

So why did watson only have a few targets?

[Sparkey]

I'm trying to come up with a Doubs comp. I can't really find one. Maybe a Michael Thomas is as close as I can come.

I think I read a draftsite comp him to Josh Reynolds from the Lions.

[red]

So why did watson only have a few targets?

and the majority of the targets were on that pitch sweep thing that sometimes counts as a pass and sometimes as a handoff

if he's open, then get him that damn ball. its not like everyone else is running around wide open

[HarveyWallbangers]

So why did watson only have a few targets?

1) He’s not getting many opportunities. He only ran 8 routes in this game. It’s mostly just jet sweeps. He’s a good blocker. I know in the Minnesota game he ran more and there were all 22 that showed he was often open.
2) I don’t think he’s the primary read often when he does run routes.
3) Rodgers alluded to being more patient and coming back to him in his progression. Basically, he said that it looks like he’s covered, but he’s so explosive that the CB doesn’t stay on him long. I think you’ll see things start to click.

[RashanGary]

On Romeo Doubs catch he had two feet down and made a football move (tucking the ball.) Unfortunately the only exception to that rule is when a player is going to the ground in the process of the catch. In that case, he must also maintain possession through the fall. It was a drop, by rule.

As for Watson, Rodgers is just learning Watsons strengths and will start to play to them as the season progresses. There was a stat of average yards per carry with Watson on the field vs without him and it’s ridiculous . His jet motion stuff is working.

[Joemailman]

On Romeo Doubs catch he had two feet down and made a football move (tucking the ball.) Unfortunately the only exception to that rule is when a player is going to the ground in the process of the catch. In that case, he must also maintain possession through the fall. It was a drop, by rule.

As for Watson, Rodgers is just learning Watsons strengths and will start to play to them as the season progresses. There was a stat of average yards per carry with Watson on the field vs without him and it’s ridiculous . His jet motion stuff is working.

Don't know if you're just referring to the Patriots game. But Dillon had some nice runs against the Bears with Watson running jet motion.

[RashanGary]

Don't know if you're just referring to the Patriots game. But Dillon had some nice runs against the Bears with Watson running jet motion.

I think the stat was over the season so far. Watson on field vs not. Was a big difference.