Davante vs. Rookies

[run pMc]

Thread to compare the production.
My expectations are that Adams will outperform both combined this year, APRH.

[run pMc]

Week 1 (9/11/2022)
D. Adams - 10 Rec, 17 Tgt, 141 Yds, 1 TD

C.Watson - 2 Rec, 4 Tgt, 34 Yds
R.Doubs - 4 Rec, 5 Tgt, 37 Yds

[Bretsky]

it won't either be close.

Let's call a spade a spade.

NOT SIGNING Devante Adams, "before" last season started (when he wanted to return back) was an Epic Fail by Gutebag. EPIC FAIL. You take care of those elite players.

So they failed to reach an agreement, and Adams ended up getting more money than he was expecting before the season started.

That failure further exposes Gute's other obvious fail......having a competent #2 WR. Now we need to pray for the newbies

[Sparkey]

And yet both teams are 0 - 1

[SudsMcBucky]

Week 1 (9/11/2022)
D. Adams - 10 Rec, 17 Tgt, 141 Yds, 1 TD

C.Watson - 2 Rec, 4 Tgt, 34 Yds
R.Doubs - 4 Rec, 5 Tgt, 37 Yds

Really? What do you expect? Adams had twice the targets as the rookies. Double the targets and you'd have a stat line pretty similar to Adams.

[run pMc]

Really? What do you expect? Adams had twice the targets as the rookies. Double the targets and you'd have a stat line pretty similar to Adams.

As stated in OP
My expectations are that Adams will outperform both combined this year, APRH.

Agree that if you match the targets for ANY receiver that you'll have similar stats to Adams. Tyreek Hill averaged 11.2 ypc last year, Stefon Diggs 11.9, Lazard 12.8.
There's a reason most rookies don't get a lot of targets.
Watson's awful 1st play drop alone would've changed the stat line significantly, and supports the previous sentence.

And no, I'm not doing this to be a troll or a "shoulda kept Davante". I'm tracking it in part for my own interest/amusement, as well as for discussion.
I do think the rookies will improve, especially in the 2nd half of the year -- if they stay healthy and don't hit a wall.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Without trading Adams, we would not have some of De'Vondre Campball, Rasul Douglas, Robert Tonyan. Do we include them in the projections?

[Tony Oday]

Week 1 (9/11/2022)
D. Adams - 10 Rec, 17 Tgt, 141 Yds, 1 TD

C.Watson - 2 Rec, 4 Tgt, 34 Yds
R.Doubs - 4 Rec, 5 Tgt, 37 Yds

If Watson doesn't drop that ball man thats 75 yds and a TD

[Fritz]

it won't either be close.

Let's call a spade a spade.

NOT SIGNING Devante Adams, "before" last season started (when he wanted to return back) was an Epic Fail by Gutebag. EPIC FAIL. You take care of those elite players.

So they failed to reach an agreement, and Adams ended up getting more money than he was expecting before the season started.

That failure further exposes Gute's other obvious fail......having a competent #2 WR. Now we need to pray for the newbies

Bretsky, that was NOT an "epic fail." Adams did not want to be in Green Bay. He wanted to play closer to home. The Packers made the best of a bad situation an d got a lot in return. I highly doubt having Adams out there on Sunday against Minny would've changed much. Rodgers had little time to throw to anyone. Sure, Adams would've caught a lot of balls, but I don't think he would have made the difference. And he wanted out, anyway. He did. It is not an "epic fail" that GB didn't re-sign them, since he didn't want to be here and GB didn't have the cap money to do that and re-sign Alexander, Douglas, Campbell, and so on.

[Joemailman]

Week 1 (9/11/2022)
D. Adams - 10 Rec, 17 Tgt, 141 Yds, 1 TD

C.Watson - 2 Rec, 4 Tgt, 34 Yds
R.Doubs - 4 Rec, 5 Tgt, 37 Yds
Adams did not catch a pass in his first NFL game.

[RashanGary]

Bretsky is saying they should have locked Adams up early instead of waiting till free agency.

[Bretsky]

Bretsky, that was NOT an "epic fail." Adams did not want to be in Green Bay. He wanted to play closer to home. The Packers made the best of a bad situation an d got a lot in return. I highly doubt having Adams out there on Sunday against Minny would've changed much. Rodgers had little time to throw to anyone. Sure, Adams would've caught a lot of balls, but I don't think he would have made the difference. And he wanted out, anyway. He did. It is not an "epic fail" that GB didn't re-sign them, since he didn't want to be here and GB didn't have the cap money to do that and re-sign Alexander, Douglas, Campbell, and so on.


OMG do you really believe this ?

First off Adams wanted to stay in Green Bay and was negotiating an extenstion the year "before" all of this happened but Green Bay did not offer enough. He got MUCH more.

They let a potential future Hall of Famer leave. EPIC FAIL.

And if you really watched what occured, Devante was negotiating with Green Bay after the season too. But we didn't lock him up. Reporters were talking to him throughout this.

Something changed; most feel the instability of Aaron Rodgers was the ultimate reason he left. He chose to go play with Carr for many many years instead of AROD for 1 or 2 more knowing the Love Machine was inadequate as a quarterback. It's very important to Adams to get into the HOF.

Just to say he wanted to go elsewhere, and ignore the entire data and process of his decision.....seems pretty incomplete to me

Epic Fail

[Bretsky]

Bretsky is saying they should have locked Adams up early instead of waiting till free agency.


They had their chance a full year before this happened and didn't close the deal.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I wouldn’t have paid Davante that money. Smart teams don’t pay 30-year-old WRs QB money. KC and GB are smart teams. Things will get better, but Packers fans overreact just like every other fan base.

[Fritz]

OMG do you really believe this ?

First off Adams wanted to stay in Green Bay and was negotiating an extenstion the year "before" all of this happened but Green Bay did not offer enough. He got MUCH more.

They let a potential future Hall of Famer leave. EPIC FAIL.

And if you really watched what occured, Devante was negotiating with Green Bay after the season too. But we didn't lock him up. Reporters were talking to him throughout this.

Something changed; most feel the instability of Aaron Rodgers was the ultimate reason he left. He chose to go play with Carr for many many years instead of AROD for 1 or 2 more knowing the Love Machine was inadequate as a quarterback. It's very important to Adams to get into the HOF.

Just to say he wanted to go elsewhere, and ignore the entire data and process of his decision.....seems pretty incomplete to me

Epic Fail

Come on, Bretsky. No matter how much the Pack would've kowtowed to Rodgers, he was never going to play more than a couple more years. So Adams knew that before the whole free agent negotiations started, and if you are correct he wants badly to go into the HOF, then signing a long-term deal with the Pack would not get him there. He'd have another year or two of Rodgers, then an unknown. And signing a 30-year-old WR to a long term contract is just not a smart move. It's all good for that first year, maybe two, but after that it's not money well-spent. Not an "epic fail." An "epic fail' would have been letting him walk and getting only a third-round pick the year after. THAT is what an epic fail would've looked like.

[SudsMcBucky]

I wouldn’t have paid Davante that money. Smart teams don’t pay 30-year-old WRs QB money. KC and GB are smart teams. Things will get better, but Packers fans overreact just like every other fan base.

Exactly, as much as I loved Adams and would have loved to have kept him, no way would I pay $30mil/year to a 30 yo WR. We were able address multiple spots with that money. We just needed to be better prepared to replace and which is why I hated the Love pick when it was done. We should've been addressing WR much earlier than just this year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think we'll see Watson, Doubs, and Lazard sooner than we originally thought. You can play Watson and Doubs outside with Lazard in the slot OR run Doubs and Lazard outside with Watson running the jet motion stuff.


Zach Kruse
@zachkruse2

Top takeaway from Week 1 for me is Christian Watson, who is going to play a huge role for the Packers in 2022. Yeah, yeah, the drop.

Started, played 40 snaps (second-most among WRs), looked dangerous.

He's a legit deep threat. Elite speed. Packers (and 12) NEED him.

Zach Kruse
@zachkruse2

I bet this offense is really going to evolve over the course of THIS season. 12 loves Watkins and Cobb.

But I think this is going to end up being the Lazard/Watson/Doubs show at some point. It has to

Peter Bukowski
@Peter_Bukowski

Was thinking the same thing watching the game back. Doubs and Watson just move at different speeds

Zach Kruse
@zachkruse2

Yep. They’ve got stuff to learn obviously but you can’t keep them off the field.


Peter Bukowski
@Peter_Bukowski

I know the drop makes it hard to focus on anything else, but Christian Watson looked more ready to contribute than I thought.

If anything, the #Packers would benefit from trying to scheme up MORE stuff for him.

His physical gifts are unreal.


Peter Bukowski
@Peter_Bukowski

They're gonna watch the tape, Rodgers is gonna see how often Watson/Doubs were open and by Halloween it's gonna be "F it, Christian down there somewhere"

[RashanGary]

I think we'll see Watson, Doubs, and Lazard sooner than we originally thought. You can play Watson and Doubs outside with Lazard in the slot OR run Doubs and Lazard outside with Watson running the jet motion stuff.

I’m so underwhelmed by Watkins and Cobb. If we’re going to be dangerous in January, the only seemingly viable path is for the young guys to come on.

But no where is it written that second round picks will pan out and that goes for 4th rounders too. It’s a bunch of wait and see.

[run pMc]

Watkins - 41 snaps, Cobb snaps, 5 catches between them. Amari played 0 snaps on offense.
They should be using Lazard/Watson/Doubs a lot by mid-season if not sooner.

Also -- agree with Harvey. You don't pay 30 y/o WRs huge contracts, especially when you are already paying near-top market at several other positions (QB, CB, LT). Also, Adams wanted out before the start of last season, and he turned down a similar if slightly lower contract to stay. He was gone.
It's a case of him leaving a year early, and I think he'll be good this year and next, but over the next 5 years Watson and Doubs should outplay him in aggregate. Big FA signings like that rarely see the end of their contracts.

If I had to guess, I'd bet Davante gets about 1400 yards and 12 TDs this year, while Sherlock Doubs & Dr. Watson get about 1000 yards and 9TDs, and by next year are outperforming him. By year 3 I think they will be matching if not outperforming Adams *and* Renfrow.

[HarveyWallbangers]

At least, he's fast.


Fastest ballcarriers in Week 1, per @NextGenStats:

1. Chase Claypool, 21.46 mph
T-2. Saquon Barkley, 21.11 mph
T-2. Joe Mixon, 21.11 mph
4. Christian Watson, 20.82 mph
5. Jaylen Waddle, 20.8 mph

[RashanGary]

Jeff Janis was fast. And tall. And had a good frame. There is a lot more to football than being tall and fast, although it’s certainly not a negative trait.

Watson, looking at the NDSU tape, isn’t really good at attacking the ball. He sort of waits for it and that’s not good when corners are good enough to go get it or knock it away. He’s not overly talented at creating separation out of breaks.

He does run a good go route. And all the cushion defenders gave him at NDSU, it also helped set up a stop route.

But Watson doesn’t look great to me, just being honest.


He has physical traits. I’d love to be wrong. But I don’t like Watson all that much. Oh, and his hands are questionable too.

[RashanGary]

I have my money on Doubs over Watson. And even then, there’s a lot to prove for both of them.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think they'll both be very good. They'll both struggle with drops. Both had drop issues in college and it's continued in the pros. However, I don't think it will be as bad as it's made out to be. Plenty of great WRs had a lot of drops (Terrell Owens, Brandon Marshall, DeSean Jackson). Ja'Marr Chase and Deebo Samuel were #1 and #3 in drop rate last year.

[RashanGary]

You can put Watson in the absolute best position to succeed. You can line him up against a slowing corner in his 30s on the first offensive play of the game when the defense has preached all week about stopping the run first (so DL aren’t rushing the passer aggressively.) You can ask him to run by a guy who’s three steps slower than him. You can get him wide open on the one route he runs well, the one route where his only redeeming quality (speed) is highlighted. You can do all of that for him and he’ll still drop the ball when it’s put right on his hands, perfectly in stride.

He doesn’t go get the ball. You can’t teach it and he doesn’t have it.

I’m down on Christian Watson.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think they'll both be good. I don't think I saw one drop from Watson like the one he had on Sunday, and I saw most of his targets. He's really good at tracking the ball and making catches over his shoulder--unlike MVS. I think Watson will be like a tall DeSean Jackson.

[run pMc]

Remember when people called Adams "Dropvante" early in his career? Even last year he dropped a few he shouldn't have.

They can teach players to make modest improvement with their hands, I think the rookies will get better. One of the ways they can do that is with better hand placement -- Watson's hands were weird on the dropped bomb, and I know Doubs doesn't consistently use correct hand alignment/placement to catch the ball. The WR coach should teach them to be better.

I think at a minimum Watson will be MVS 2.0, but I think he has the potential to be a lot better than that. It's one game, we have 40 snaps of tape to look at Watson... that's not enough. FWIW, he did a nice job blocking on Dillon's TD. If you're down on Watson that's ok. I need to see him play more.

[texaspackerbacker]

The rookie receivers were certainly not the worst thing about that game. I still say - maybe now more than ever, Watson is gonna be a superstar and Doubs is gonna be damn good too. It was Cobb and Watkins who stunk it up and couldn't get open, and Aaron Rodgers - who I virtually never criticize - who insisted on targeting them until late in the game instead of the rookies.

All that being said, it likely would have been a very different game if Watson hadn't gotten rookie nerves and dropped a pass probably any of us in the forum coulda caught. I strongly doubt that happens repeatedly like with Valdez-Scantling.

As for Adams, he was apparently like some idiots in here used to call Rodgers: a stat whore. Yeah, he got his catches for Oakland (or wherever the fuck they play now), but the team lost as he apparently soaked up the targets that several other fairly good receivers got other years.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Stupid forum

[HarveyWallbangers]

I hope ARod didn’t stop going to him because of one drop. I’m not a Bukowski fan, but he at least watched the all-22.


Peter Bukowski

@Peter_Bukowski

I'll have clips coming later but guys, Aaron Rodgers was very ungood vs. the Vikings. Did not see the field well at all. Antsy in the pocket. Checked it down early even when he had time.

Guys were open. He was impatient and did not make good decisions.


Peter Bukowski
@Peter_Bukowski

I don’t know if Christian Watson was always running the right routes because I’m not in the #Packers meetings but he was open all day whether running beautiful double moves or finding soft spots.

He blocked well.

Rodgers just wasn’t looking at him, but QB1 will see the tape

[RashanGary]

50% of second round picks are busts. Watson played as many snaps as the starters. He’s being given every opportunity to succeed. Now, will the stubborn donkey, 12, play along with the plan? That is a question. Rodgers tries to play nice though. The organization is committed to developing 9. Rodgers will try. But if 9 doesn’t do his part, Rodgers will be quick to show frustration.

I just hope one of the two young guys is a really good player by years end and we’re in it. We really need it. My money is on Doubs because I think he goes and gets the ball with more consistency. But my eyes are not closed to Watsons physical talent and he’s smart and blocks. He likes to play ball and has a shot for sure.

[RashanGary]

Doubs looks a lot like Jefferson, physically. And he’s fast enough to blow passed stokes. I wouldn’t sleep on Doubs upside. Watson is a more rare physical talent than Jefferson but that doesn’t mean he’s better.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Some good videos on Packers Twitter:

https://twitter.com/i/lists/1229505303873572864

https://twitter.com/RossUglem/status/1569858088177647616

https://twitter.com/Peter_Bukowski/status/1569839883065376768

https://twitter.com/Peter_Bukowski/status/1569839257317154817

Watson's athleticism absolutely jumps off the screen. Get on the bandwagon. This is why the guy missed most of camp, didn't play a snap in preseason, and still played the second most WR snaps. The Packers know what they have in this guy.

[RashanGary]

Some good videos on Packers Twitter:

https://twitter.com/i/lists/1229505303873572864

https://twitter.com/RossUglem/status/1569858088177647616

https://twitter.com/Peter_Bukowski/status/1569839883065376768

https://twitter.com/Peter_Bukowski/status/1569839257317154817

Watson's athleticism absolutely jumps off the screen. Get on the bandwagon. This is why the guy missed most of camp, didn't play a snap in preseason, and still played the second most WR snaps. The Packers know what they have in this guy.

Let’s not forget that Mike McCarthy was playing safety Josh Jones over Micah Hyde because Jones was 225 pounds and ran a 4.4 flat. Coaches pushing a young physical specimen doesn’t mean they’re good. It means that they’re committed to trying to develop the upside.

[Tony Oday]

Watson will be a top 5 WR in two years as long as Love isn't here.

[Upnorth]

I think if Watson can figure out his hands he willl be a probowler

[bobblehead]

Doubs looks a lot like Jefferson, physically. And he’s fast enough to blow passed stokes. I wouldn’t sleep on Doubs upside. Watson is a more rare physical talent than Jefferson but that doesn’t mean he’s better.

Doubs knows how to play WR. Leveraging position, finding holes in the zone. He willl be good. I think watson will be good too.

And to the actual thread ...both better beat Adams today.

[Tony Oday]

Adams with 2 catches today

[Joemailman]

Packers had 4 WR's with more receiving yards than Adams today.

[run pMc]

Week 2
Davante Adams - 7 tgts, 2 rec, 11 yds, 1 TD

C.Watson - 3 tgts, 3 rec, 9 yds, 0 TD
R.Doubs - 3 tgts, 2 rec, 27 yds, 0 TD

[run pMc]

Packers had 4 WR's with more receiving yards than Adams today.

Statistically, you could say Allen Lazard outplayed him lol.

I suspect he helped draw some coverage away from Waller and Renfrow...all the same, not a good day for Adams. 2 receptions on 7 targets is a bad catch rate.
I didn't see the game but you would think some of those were bad throws by Carr.

[George Cumby]

Yesterday was the first time I'd seen the kids play.

I think we got some players in Watson and Doubs.

I'm optimistic that by mid-season, they will have some chemistry with 12.

Off-topic, Watkins can still play.

[RashanGary]

I had a lot of doubts about Watkins. But he looked good last night. He looked fast and confident.

[bobblehead]

Yesterday was the first time I'd seen the kids play.

I think we got some players in Watson and Doubs.

I'm optimistic that by mid-season, they will have some chemistry with 12.

Off-topic, Watkins can still play.

Until he can't. He has always been an average to slightly above average WR when he is on the field.

[Upnorth]

Watkins is more than just above average. Just isn't on the field enough

[call_me_ishmael]

To me he looked slow. I am 100% on team play the rookies.

[run pMc]

I think Watkins is average to above average as a WR2. (If we assume Lazard is WR1)
Thing with Watkins is he's been hurt a lot in recent seasons, and seems like if you get hurt you'll keep getting hurt. It's a tough sport.
He's got ok speed and moves off the line. He's not a gamebreaker anymore but he is a decent vet to have for depth or in case of injury or a rookie not developing.

On that note, I've seen enough of the rookies to think they should both develop into good pros. Years 2 & 3 could be very exciting if there's a good QB throwing to them.

[bobblehead]

Watkins is more than just above average. Just isn't on the field enough

If he is so good why hasn't he done mich thru 2 games?

[Sparkey]

If he is so good why hasn't he done mich thru 2 games?

FWIW : He is on pace for 51 catches and 943 yards. Obviously the small sample size warning is required and his history of injuries will more than likely prevent him from attaining that line.

[Upnorth]

5 of his 6 catches gave been 1st downs.
It's early but he is solid, plus I know small sample size but basically on pace for 1000 yards. That's good not above average.
Might slow down but so far for production he is our #1.
I do think Watson passes him by midseason though.

[run pMc]

5 of his 6 catches gave been 1st downs.
It's early but he is solid, plus I know small sample size but basically on pace for 1000 yards. That's good not above average.
Might slow down but so far for production he is our #1.
I do think Watson passes him by midseason though.

I'm not convinced any GB WR will crack 900 yards, let alone 1000 this year. FWIW, 26 players broke 1000 yards receiving last season - 23 WRs and 3 TEs.
If by some miracle Watkins stays healthy AND approaches 1000 yards, he'd be considered a solid WR1. I don't think he's in that class at this point given his age, and recent injury/production history.

I'd love to see him step up and be a weapon for Rodgers, especially early in the season as the rookies develop, but I'm skeptical it will happen.

[bobblehead]

FWIW : He is on pace for 51 catches and 943 yards. Obviously the small sample size warning is required and his history of injuries will more than likely prevent him from attaining that line.

That seems average to slightly above average to me.

[George Cumby]

If Rodgers put a little more air under this ball, it goes for a TD. Watkins had to slow down for it.

He blew past the CB, too.

I think he's still got wheels.

Staying healthy is the question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R5iOx0rMZs

[George Cumby]

Well, it would seem Davante might be regretting his decision to leave GB.

As if we didn't know hiring that fuck-wit McDaniels was a bad idea.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/26/davante-adams-frustrated-and-angry-by-0-3-start/

[texaspackerbacker]

What I saw of the Raiders game on RedZone, either he wasn't getting open or Carr wasn't looking his way in crucial situations.

I'm thoroughly glad now that the trade happened, and I think that will only increase over the years. As for Adams regretting it, yeah, probably, in football terms anyway.

[Joemailman]

Carr is only 17-34 when targeting Adams. Seems strange you can only hit Adams 50% of the time. Last year with everybody knowing how much Rodgers wanted to go to Adams, Rodgers completed 123 of 169 for 72%.

[run pMc]

Game 3
Adams: 5 rec, 10 tgts, 36 yds, 1 TD. Oh, he had 1 rush for -4 yards

Watson DNP
Doubs: 8 rec, 8 tgts, 73yds, 1 TD

[run pMc]

Wouldn't shock me if he's not getting open as much or getting accurate throws.

Carr is a average to above average QB... top 15 but not quite top 10. He can get you regular season wins, but if he gets you to the playoffs I don't think he gets you far without a LOT of help.
If I'm a DC for an opposing team, I bracket or cloud-cover Adams and let Carr dink and dunk it to Waller & Renfrow until he screws up. (Or someone else screws up for LV.) Not a huge fan of that personally, but I know that's basically how Brandon Staley and a lot of copycats do it.

I haven't watched much of the Raiders this year, but from what I've seen they've had some crazy snakebit luck. That game vs. ARI was bonkers.

And no, I don't take Adams' comment about being 0-3 as regret at leaving GB, they seemed more directed at others on the team, like they were just expecting to win and not working for it.

[Joemailman]

Historically, Doubs’ 14 receptions, 137 yards and touchdown line over his first three games as a professional is very rare. How rare? So rare that only two players in NFL history, Steve Largent and Marques Colston, have recorded as many receptions, yards and touchdowns as Doubs in their first three games after being drafted in the fourth round or later in the draft. Largent eventually developed into a five-time All-Pro receiver and was named to the NFL’s 100th Anniversary All-Time Team as well as the Pro Football Football of Fame. Colston was never named a Pro Bowler but is enshrined in the New Orleans Saints Hall of Fame and revolutionized the “big slot” position that players like the Packers’ Allen Lazard now play.

Nice company.

[Joemailman]

Well, it would seem Davante might be regretting his decision to leave GB.

As if we didn't know hiring that fuck-wit McDaniels was a bad idea.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/26/davante-adams-frustrated-and-angry-by-0-3-start/I wonder how many players on that team wish they had kept Bisaccia as head coach. Glad they didn't.

[George Cumby]

I wonder how many players on that team wish they had kept Bisaccia as head coach. Glad they didn't.

As is often the case with the Raiders decision making I was flabbergasted they didn't give Bisaccia at least a one year deal.

Their loss and our gain.

[bobblehead]

Well, it would seem Davante might be regretting his decision to leave GB.

As if we didn't know hiring that fuck-wit McDaniels was a bad idea.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/09/26/davante-adams-frustrated-and-angry-by-0-3-start/

This from the comments:

Since the Packers drafted Adams, the Packers record in games without him on the field is 10-1 and Adams record without the Packers is 0-3.
Just sayin

[Upnorth]

As is often the case with the Raiders decision making I was flabbergasted they didn't give Bisaccia at least a one year deal.

Their loss and our gain.

We now have a great head coach and great special teams coach. I think Barry is ok at d, the rest of season will possibly change that opinion.
All I know is I bet we are looking fir a new st coach in a year or 2, other teams will try steal him.

[run pMc]

In fairness to the LVR, hiring the interim HC has historically not worked out well for teams. Plus McDaniels is a sexier hire.
However, getting that team (with Ruggs, Arnette and Gruden drama) to the playoffs last year was no small feat. I think he'll get interviews at a minimum if not a chance to be HC next year, assuming the ST stay on this trajectory.

[Joemailman]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdxDeqHWQAIfi5m?format=jpg&name=small

[Joemailman]

First 4 games for Packers rookie wide receivers:

Greg Jennings - 15 catches, 259 yards, 2 TD

James Jones - 18 catches, 232 yards, 1 TD

James Lofton - 11 catches, 225 yards, 3 TD's

Romeo Doubs - 19 catches, 184 yards, 2 TD's

Sterling Sharpe - 8 catches, 152 yards 0 TD

Randall Cobb - 7 catches, 148 yards, 1 TD

Jordy Nelson - 9 catches, 102 yards, 1 TD

Davante Adams - 9 catches, 79 yards, 0 TD

Antonio Freeman - 3 catches, 59 yards, 0 TD

Robert Brooks - 3 catches, 29 yards, 1 TD

Donald Driver - Inactive

[RashanGary]

Doubs is gonna have a year. And as this OL gets settled in, we’re gonna see a couple bombs to Watson too.

[red]

Doubs is gonna have a year. And as this OL gets settled in, we’re gonna see a couple bombs to Watson too.

yeah he coupld drop 15 and fumble away another 8 or 9

maybe get that elusive double double as a rookie

[run pMc]

Week 4

Adams 9 rec on 13 tgts, 101 yds and 1TD

Doubs 5 rec on 8 tgts, 47 yds, 1TD
Watson 1 rec on 3 tgts, 8 yds, 0TD rec, 1 rush 15yds 1 TD


At the approximate 1/4 mark of season

Adams 26 rec, 47 tgts, 290 yds, 3 TD, 2 rushes, 0 yds, 0 TD

Doubs 19 rec, 24 tgts, 184 yds, 2TD, 1 rush, 11 yds, 0 TD
Watson 6 rec, 10 tgts, 51 yds, 0 TD, 2 rushes, 22 yds, 1TD

[run pMc]

Haven't seen enough of Watson yet, but he has serious speed.
As for Doubs, I think 2024 Doubs could be a monster, but he's got a way to go to get there. This year will be a roller coaster but there's definitely a lot of upside with these two that the team has to figure out how to unlock.

[run pMc]

Week 5
Adams 3 rec, 7 tgts, 124 yds, 2 TD, one angry outburst

Doubs 3 rec, 5 tgts, 29 yds, 0 TD
Watson 1 rec, 1 tgt, 1 yds, 0 TD, 1 rush, -3 yds, 2KR, 35yds, 1 sore hamstring

Doubs has played over 85% of the offensive snaps each of the last 3 weeks.
Watson either has Packeritis or took the wrong notes from Sammy Watkins in the WR meeting room. 2 hamstring injuries and knee surgery is not a great start. I still think the kid's got a lot of talent (and upside).

[MadtownPacker]

Sad to see Davante so dejected. At this point both him and his ex Eeron are wishing they didnt break up.

[Fritz]

yeah he coupld drop 15 and fumble away another 8 or 9

maybe get that elusive double double as a rookie

Still cracking me up after all these years, Red.

[call_me_ishmael]

They need to throw the damn ball to the rookies. They need to be option 2 and 3 on the offense. You gave up a lot to get Watson, give him the ball on a route instead of being Tyler Earvin.

[texaspackerbacker]

Lost in this conversation is that MVS had 6 catches for 90 yards in the game against the Raiders - and of course, his team won.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

They need to throw the damn ball to the rookies. They need to be option 2 and 3 on the offense. You gave up a lot to get Watson, give him the ball on a route instead of being Tyler Earvin.

Doubs is a terrible route runner and Watson is softer than an impotent rooster. Gonna take time and a lot of trial and error to get the two rooks seasoned.

Gee, tell me Partial, who was that incompetent GM who took 21 “can’t cover nor tackle” Savage and the Fucking Center who is toothlesly trying to play tackle over DK “Black Hulk” Metcalf?

Lazard is the worst #1 WR in the league. Packers could use Metcalf right now. Sign OBJ already!

[Joemailman]

They need to throw the damn ball to the rookies. They need to be option 2 and 3 on the offense. You gave up a lot to get Watson, give him the ball on a route instead of being Tyler Earvin.

Doubs has been targeted more than any other receiver on the Packers. Watson hasn't been able to stay healthy long enough long enough to stay in the lineup. All those injuries have caused him to miss practice time which is a tough thing for a rookie. If Watson is going to be a bigger part of the offense, he has to be available.

[Fritz]

Agreed. I would think they'll put him on the shelf til that hammy is completely healed. But so far, the guy is the very definition of injury-prone. Missed all of camp, and misses every other game so far.

It's early, I know. I hope he gets back and stays healthy. But the early signs are not encouraging. We'll see.

[Sparkey]

Aaron hates it when rookies make mistakes running routes by breaking off an out too soon or this or that, blah blah blah. He wants them to do what he wants, which is great, except that when a young player is thinking too much about the whens and wheres and thinks about avoiding mistakes, he ends up playing slow and hesitant.

If Aaron were this great QB, he would be better off telling the guys to run the routes fast, hard and sharp, not quibble about the little shit and throw the damn ball. It may be harder on him to study the rookies tendencies and certain routes, but I'd rather see guys playing fast and loose as opposed to slow and tight.

I'm sure Rodgers dreads hitting double digit picks, so I expect him to want the "smart", slow guys to play more. Hey Aaron, be the guy who makes others better instead of the guy who expects others too make it easier for him. Be the GOAT and make chicken salad from chicken shit. Otherwise, retire and go travel the world trying to find the next great high.

[run pMc]

Davante's rookie year (2014) thru Week 5: 10 rec, 17 tgts, 90 yds, 1TD
Better WR depth back then might be a consideration, Adams was WR3 behind Jordy and Cobb.
Still - Doubs is off to a very good start.

Rodgers will have to throw more to Doubs and eventually Watson, and I think he will. He still has lapses where he locks onto receivers, and his deep throws have been off more than usual. It's possible it's age impacting his ability just as much as it's new faces. It's going to take time for this offense to get any traction, in the meantime they have to lean on the RBs.

And no, I don't think OBJ is coming to GB. Just a hunch, but I'd guess he re-signs with LAR or some AFC team like KC or BUF. GB has bigger issues than what he can solve IMO.

[red]

i think we've learned on important fact

aaron rodgers can not just make any WR better, like we've been hearing for years

[bobblehead]

i think we've learned on important fact

aaron rodgers can not just make any WR better, like we've been hearing for years

He certainly makes every WR he plays with better. He can not, however, spin straw into gold. By week 17 doubs and watson will look pretty good.

[run pMc]

Been a while, here's the season totals so far:

Davante: 57 rec, 99 tgts, 784 yds, 8 TDs
Watson: 14 rec, 22 tgts, 195 tds, 3 TDs, also has 1 rush TD
Doubs: 31 rec, 50 tgts, 314 yds, 3 TDs
Toure: 4 rec, 9 tgts, 75 yds, 1 TD

(Rookies combined: 49 rec, 81 tgts, 584 yds, 7 TDs, 1 rushing TD)

The rookies are matching Adams on TDs, but Adams is getting more recs and is soundly beating them on targets and yards. I'm not surprised tbh. If Adams was with GB they'd force feed him the ball too.
Adams is on pace for just under 1500 yards on a troubled Raiders team.

Another comment: Some of his "routes" for LVR don't even look like routes so much as "beat your guy off the line and I'll look for you across the middle". I've seen him take almost 2 seconds to get 5 yards past the LOS but beat his man...very weird and unlike pretty much every WR I've seen.

Lastly, the rookies -- and the offense -- would run better if Rodgers looked to them and if MLF ran his actual offense. That they're open has been discussed plenty already. Holding out hope Rodgers will trust them by end of season -- maybe the McCarthy bowl will be a tipping point. The rookies look like keepers to me.

[QBME]

Devante team wins - 2
Rookies team wins - 4

Admittedly, both pusillanimous, just sayin’.

[Joemailman]

NFL Rumors
@nflrums
ESPN's Dan Graziano reports the #Raiders could release QB Derek Carr after the season to avoid paying the final three years of his contract.

I would imagine this could even put Davante Adams back in play if it happens too. #RaiderNation

Raiders currently have 2nd pick in the draft, so they could be in position to draft a QB. Raiders would save about 30 million on cap by releasing or trading Carr before June 1. Trading Adams before June 1 would mean 31 million in dead cap for Raiders and increase the cap hit by 17 million. So Adams likely isn't going anywhere.

[Bretsky]

Raiders currently have 2nd pick in the draft, so they could be in position to draft a QB. Raiders would save about 30 million on cap by releasing or trading Carr before June 1. Trading Adams before June 1 would mean 31 million in dead cap for Raiders and increase the cap hit by 17 million. So Adams likely isn't going anywhere.


MY TRANSLATION

GUTEBAG SHOUDL HAVE DEMMANDED NEXT YEAR'S FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICK !!!!!

[call_me_ishmael]

Didn't Carr literally get a new contract this summer?

[Joemailman]

Didn't Carr literally get a new contract this summer?

Yes, but there's not much guaranteed money, so they can get out of it.

[run pMc]

Cutting Carr after Davante left GB to play with him would be quite the kick in the pants for Davante. Still, I could see them do it.

Giving your QB a contract without a lot of guaranteed money - imagine that.

[Fritz]

Raiders currently have 2nd pick in the draft, so they could be in position to draft a QB. Raiders would save about 30 million on cap by releasing or trading Carr before June 1. Trading Adams before June 1 would mean 31 million in dead cap for Raiders and increase the cap hit by 17 million. So Adams likely isn't going anywhere.

Now if only Green Bay had traded Rodgers to Denver. Imagine all the draft capital, and imagine that their record might be 3 - 8 instead of 4 - 7.

You'd be finding out if Love was the real deal, too. If he was, you're good to go. If not, you're looking to get that QB.

Big mistake to stay with Rodgers. Understandable, for sure, but in hindsight a mistake.

I notice Tex hasn't been posting shit for a couple weeks now.

[Rastak]

Now if only Green Bay had traded Rodgers to Denver. Imagine all the draft capital, and imagine that their record might be 3 - 8 instead of 4 - 7.

You'd be finding out if Love was the real deal, too. If he was, you're good to go. If not, you're looking to get that QB.

Big mistake to stay with Rodgers. Understandable, for sure, but in hindsight a mistake.

I notice Tex hasn't been posting shit for a couple weeks now.


He claims he won't post anymore this year because of the negative assholes. He should get some glasses. Vikings are sucking up the joint but they have some cushion.

[run pMc]

He claims he won't post anymore this year because of the negative assholes. He should get some glasses. Vikings are sucking up the joint but they have some cushion.

Rastak, it seems like the Vikes have had a LOT of very good luck - playing Miami with a 3rd string QB, Detroit's coaches shitting the bed and letting MIN back in the game, Josh Allen with a one-in-a-million collapse. Are the Vikings for real? They have a history of getting hopes up and failing, and the NFC is such a mess this year it's hard to say.

I also think they've been pretty lucky with injuries for most of the season -- they have a lot of older players and you have to wonder if they will last a 17 game season. Having a big cushion in a crappy NFC might let them rest them at the end of season, but they still have a fool's gold vibe to me. Am I off?

I mean, the Giants are probably going to the playoffs, and they got beat by the Lions today, so who knows.

[run pMc]

MY TRANSLATION

GUTEBAG SHOUDL HAVE DEMMANDED NEXT YEAR'S FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICK !!!!!

I would've been fine with Adams for 2 consecutive R1 picks instead of a same year R1 and R2.
You also could've talked me into taking the Georges (Pickens and Karlaftis) with their R1 picks this year.

As it is, I think the future is bright with Watson, Doubs, and even Toure, but they need more help. To wit:

Lazard is a nice complementary piece, but he's no WR1 and shouldn't be getting 10 targets a game.
Watkins seems like a good dude who tries hard but I think injuries have taken his athleticism. At this point in the season his legs are shot and I'm not even sure he's on the same page with Rodgers anyway.
Cobb is a fun story and halfway decent security blanket for Rodgers, but I don't know that you want him out there except on third down.

These 3 vets contracts are up after the season, and I would not be shocked if Gute brings none of them back. Maybe Lazard -- but again, he should be a WR3/big slot.

[Rastak]

Rastak, it seems like the Vikes have had a LOT of very good luck - playing Miami with a 3rd string QB, Detroit's coaches shitting the bed and letting MIN back in the game, Josh Allen with a one-in-a-million collapse. Are the Vikings for real? They have a history of getting hopes up and failing, and the NFC is such a mess this year it's hard to say.

I also think they've been pretty lucky with injuries for most of the season -- they have a lot of older players and you have to wonder if they will last a 17 game season. Having a big cushion in a crappy NFC might let them rest them at the end of season, but they still have a fool's gold vibe to me. Am I off?

I mean, the Giants are probably going to the playoffs, and they got beat by the Lions today, so who knows.


Not too far off. Secondary needs to get healthy fast but they are not what their record says at the moment.

[texaspackerbacker]

Now if only Green Bay had traded Rodgers to Denver. Imagine all the draft capital, and imagine that their record might be 3 - 8 instead of 4 - 7.

You'd be finding out if Love was the real deal, too. If he was, you're good to go. If not, you're looking to get that QB.

Big mistake to stay with Rodgers. Understandable, for sure, but in hindsight a mistake.

I notice Tex hasn't been posting shit for a couple weeks now.

I said I have a moratorium - which I break every time my name is taken in vain hahahaha.

Adams came through for them today - BFD, they're still just 3-7.

And nobody was as much in favor of drafting Watson as I was. Doubs surprised me, but he's gonna be damn good too. I'm EXTREMELY glad we have those two (and Toure too) instead of Adams going forward.

Since I broke my moratorium again, I'll just say this also: Fuck all the ingrates and IDIOTS who are stupid enough to want to move on from Aaron Rodgers or stupidly regretting that contract which effectively prevents them from trading or cutting him.

[run pMc]

For the record, I think their hands were somewhat tied with Rodgers on the contract. He was the MVP for two consecutive years and he was making noise. You don't let MVPs walk away, especially QBs.
They didn't have a lot of leverage, and they have even less now thanks to the guaranteed money. Their cap is fucked. I thought it was a bad contract, but I also thought he would play better than he has. He hasn't played up to the $50M he's making. The Daniel Joneses and Taylor Heineckes of the world are outplaying him.

If/when he retires or is traded, the Packers will likely suck for a while, but they're not good right now either... so I guess it's a question for another thread as to would you rather have Rodgers vs. Love and the cap space. (Honestly, they won't have the cap space for at least one post-Rodgers year anyway.)

Will the WRs be better next year? You certainly hope so. One or two of the three should take a Year 2 leap, especially with all the snaps they will get. They will need more receiving depth, preferably youth with maybe a quality veteran in there so the room isn't young. I could see them bring Lazard back for that reason but he shouldn't even be a WR2. With better receivers Rodgers should in theory play better if he's back next season. He's past his prime and can't carry a team anymore. He can lift an offense, sure, but he can't carry them like he used to.

[bobblehead]

Now if only Green Bay had traded Rodgers to Denver. Imagine all the draft capital, and imagine that their record might be 3 - 8 instead of 4 - 7.

You'd be finding out if Love was the real deal, too. If he was, you're good to go. If not, you're looking to get that QB.

Big mistake to stay with Rodgers. Understandable, for sure, but in hindsight a mistake.

I notice Tex hasn't been posting shit for a couple weeks now.

Some of us wanted to do that...at the time even, not after the "other" stuff. And as I pointed out in another thread. Are we sure Denver doesn't still want Rodgers?

[bobblehead]

Rastak, it seems like the Vikes have had a LOT of very good luck - playing Miami with a 3rd string QB, Detroit's coaches shitting the bed and letting MIN back in the game, Josh Allen with a one-in-a-million collapse. Are the Vikings for real? They have a history of getting hopes up and failing, and the NFC is such a mess this year it's hard to say.

I also think they've been pretty lucky with injuries for most of the season -- they have a lot of older players and you have to wonder if they will last a 17 game season. Having a big cushion in a crappy NFC might let them rest them at the end of season, but they still have a fool's gold vibe to me. Am I off?

I mean, the Giants are probably going to the playoffs, and they got beat by the Lions today, so who knows.

It seems that teams that are winning are always called lucky if it didn't fit the "narrative". The narrative is often wrong. The vikings are playing really good football (yesterday withstanding). My friend assured me the Rams were going to repeat because they went after guys in FA unlike that douche Gutes. Now he claims they are just unlucky, but Gutes still sucks.

The truth usually is right where the final record says it is. And the second truth is that parity in the NFL has removed "dominant" teams. The Owl is won either by Tom Brady, who is a cheating prick, or the team that gets hot at the right time. Often times that is also the best all around team....except when you believe the best all around team got "unlucky"

[Joemailman]

Packers rookie wide receivers through first nine games played.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FiqpPXsXkAMfd1X?format=png&name=small

[bobblehead]

For some reason when you post an image I am not seeing it.

In any event, I am dying to see Doubs and Watson on the field at the same time with Lazard serving as the 3.

[Joemailman]

For some reason when you post an image I am not seeing it.

In any event, I am dying to see Doubs and Watson on the field at the same time with Lazard serving as the 3.

It's a Twitter image, as were the injury reports I posted. Don't know if that helps.

[run pMc]

It seems that teams that are winning are always called lucky if it didn't fit the "narrative". The narrative is often wrong. The vikings are playing really good football (yesterday withstanding). My friend assured me the Rams were going to repeat because they went after guys in FA unlike that douche Gutes. Now he claims they are just unlucky, but Gutes still sucks.

The truth usually is right where the final record says it is. And the second truth is that parity in the NFL has removed "dominant" teams. The Owl is won either by Tom Brady, who is a cheating prick, or the team that gets hot at the right time. Often times that is also the best all around team....except when you believe the best all around team got "unlucky"

It was less about fitting a narrative than it seems like the Vikings have won a handful of close games in ways that are not sustainable or predictable. Close games tend to be coin flips, and good for them for winning them. Over time there is a regression to the mean, so perhaps this is them making up for some previous or future close losses. It doesn't hurt Minnesota that the NFC is generally garbage this year -- the Packer teams of the previous two seasons would have burned thru this conference. All that said, they have the NFCN locked up and probably are the #2 seed, so good for them. I'm not convinced they are better than PHI, DAL, or SF, and might not even be better than SEA despite the Parcellsism that you are what your record says you are.

Anyone who thinks their team is going to the SB because they won the free agency bowl should go back and look at how that's worked for teams in the last 20 years. Dan Snyder and Albert Haynesworth, yikes. The Rams went full "stars and scrubs" model with roster construction, and when some of those stars got hurt it cost them. Worse yet, since they have traded away a number of draft picks to acquire those stars, they don't have enough young talent to keep them afloat when injuries hit.

[run pMc]

Adams - 123 tgts, 71 rec, 999 yards, 10 TDs

Watson - 34 tgt, 22 rec, 353 yds, 6 TDs
Doubs- 50 tgts, 31 rec, 314 yds, 3 TDs
Toure- 9 tgts, 4 rec, 75 yds, 1 TD

(Rookies combined: 93 tgts, 57 rec, 742 yds, 10 TDs, 1 rushing TD)

Davante has 55 targets in last 4 games, that's a lot of throws. He's been on fire in November though -- 33 catches for 487 yds and 5 TDs.

For GB, you have to like what Watson has shown lately. When healthy, Watson and Doubs look like good players, and at a minimum Toure is a useful depth piece who (last I checked) has passed up Watkins on the depth chart.

[run pMc]

Final tally for 2022. I predicted Watson + Doubs < Adams. I predict next year Watson + Doubs > Adams (APRH).

Adams: 180 tgts, 100 rec, 1516 yds, 14 TDs. 180 targets is mind boggling. Made the Pro Bowl.

Watson: 66 tgts, 41 rec, 611 yds, 7 TDs. Also had 7 rushes for 80 yds and 2TDs. Averaged less yds/rec than Adams, believe it or not.
Doubs: 67 tgts, 42 rec, 425 yds, 3 TDs. Wasn't the same after his ankle injury.
Toure: 10 tgts, 5 rec, 82 yds, 1 TD

They're no longer rookies, and will have a full offseason to hopefully make a big Year 2 leap.

[RashanGary]

Yeah. The Davante vs the second year players thread will be a little more fun for us next year.

[RashanGary]

Davante just turned 30. He’s shown no signs of drop off. It’ll be interesting to watch his career finish up. 3 more averaging 1,200 and another 3 more averaging 700 would put him close to 15k career yards, in the top 5 all time, and a likely shot at the HOF. He could push for top 5 on touchdowns too. He’s already top 15 all time in touchdowns.

Davante might be a HOFer.

[run pMc]

Davante's age will slow him down, but he's kind of a unicorn because he gets open based on his releases, not his speed. If you watch some of his film it's like he's not really running a route so much as just shimmying around off the line and getting open in a zone. It's kind of weird. His hands are also pretty good. What he does is probably something that can age ok, until the quickness also goes and he works solely off of guile. I could see him putting up another 4000 yards and 35 TDs in the next 3-4 years before he retires. He did pretty well with Carr and Stidham throwing to him.


Rookie receivers rarely do more than 30-40 catches for 4-500 yards, so these guys are on or ahead of the curve.
Watson and Doubs, if they can stay healthy, have their careers in front of them and could easily top 800 yards each if not (hopefully) more next year. GB needs another receiving weapon besides those two (and the RBs); Lazard was the leading receiver but I'm not sure he's the missing piece. Maybe be a receiving TE? A younger/faster slot WR option?

[RashanGary]

Davante averaged 1,450 yards and 110 catches the last three years and hasn’t slowed down a step. If he’s healthy, and pushes his career out like some have, it’s not unreasonable to expect the following numbers.

Age 31 1300 14% drop
Age 32 1105 15% drop
Age 33 940 15% drop
Age 34 800 15% drop
Age 35 680 15% drop
Age 36 580 15% drop

That’s 5,400 yards in 6 realistic healthy seasons if he’s lucky enough to be mostly healthy and wants to push that hard. That puts him at 15,000 career yards.

He’s averaged 12 touchdowns a year for the last 7 years. Let’s say he gets half that for six years. 36 touchdowns. 223 total touchdowns. That’s 6th all time.

With a realistic 15% drop per year in receiving yards and cutting his prime touchdown rate in half, he realistically finishes top 7 in yards and top 6 in touchdowns.

He could make a case for the HOF if he’s motivated and healthy.

[RashanGary]

He could drop off a cliff at any point. His QB could suck. He could get injured. He might not want to push that deep into his career. AND he was never considered a Julio Jones, Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss type freak that got all the attention and buzz.

He’s got a 15% chance of making the HOF by my estimation.

[RashanGary]

Donald driver got 5,400 yards and 32 touchdowns between the age of 31 and 36. So it’s very, very realistic for Davante to finish top 6 and 7 in yards and touchdowns all time.

[RashanGary]

Hey Tex, how did Davante playing mediocre without Rodgers work out for you. It was quite the opposite. Rodgers was mediocre and Adams a probowler. Tell us how our asses taste.

[Bretsky]

at this point it's an interesting debate.

WHO needed the other more to excel ?????????

It seems like Rodgers needed Devante more than he needed Rodgers

[call_me_ishmael]

Man, if Davante does become a HOFer, the four HOF-esque picks of Rodgers, Collins, Adams, and Bakhtiari put TT in legend category despite some overall really shitty drafts. The stars he hit shined bright, that's for sure.

That's like Harrison, Peyton, Edgerrin esque.

[texaspackerbacker]

Hey Tex, how did Davante playing mediocre without Rodgers work out for you. It was quite the opposite. Rodgers was mediocre and Adams a probowler. Tell us how our asses taste.

Did I say that? Admittedly, I didn't expect him to do as well as he did this year, and really he didn't do very well until late in the season when the Raiders were already pretty far down the toilet. Davante could still finish up his career strong, though. He didn't rely on speed, and that kind of receiver often plays good to an older age. I wouldn't mind seeing the Packers get him back for a reasonable amount in trade, although I don't expect that to happen. He and Rodgers for another 3-5 years would be nice.

Collins isn't in the HOF, is he? And I really don't think Bakhtiari will make it.

[call_me_ishmael]

I think Bakhtiari is a lock for HOF if he stays healthy and continues playing at the level that he has.

Collins isn't and almost certainly wouldn't have made it, but damn he was good at his high. Special, special player.

[run pMc]

Did I say that? Admittedly, I didn't expect him to do as well as he did this year, and really he didn't do very well until late in the season when the Raiders were already pretty far down the toilet. Davante could still finish up his career strong, though. He didn't rely on speed, and that kind of receiver often plays good to an older age. I wouldn't mind seeing the Packers get him back for a reasonable amount in trade, although I don't expect that to happen. He and Rodgers for another 3-5 years would be nice.

Collins isn't in the HOF, is he? And I really don't think Bakhtiari will make it.

You did. You also claimed Watson would outplay Adams this year, and that Rodgers wouldn't miss Adams or miss a beat. Your homerism was nice but clearly cracked under the weight of reality.
Adams had 10 rec on 17 tgts for 141 yards and TD in Game 1 of the season... not exactly starting slow.

Collins is not and won't be in the HOF. Bakhtiari has a shot depending on how his career ends. He made All-Pro 5 consecutive years which is a good endorsement. Effectively missing 2 years of his career hurts his chances. I don't think Adams will play with Rodgers in Green Bay again.

[texaspackerbacker]

Gee it's great having such an on task truth squad hahahaha. Arguably, if not for the injuries, Watson might have. I was wrong, though, I guess, about Rodgers not missing Adams. I still say, however, that Adams missed Rodgers more than vice versa. Davante is a HOF player, and I'd be thoroughly happy to get him back in Green Bay - preferably playing with the QB that made him a HOFer.

Bakhtiari is overrated enough that he just might be a HOFer. I kinda doubt it, though. If he is, Rodgers made that happen too. He's never been a good run blocker, and Rodgers' passing even while pressured made Bakhtiari and the line seem way better than they were.

[MadtownPacker]

Don’t forget rodgers is the reason you are the most intelligent and handsome poster on this board.

[bobblehead]

I think Bakhtiari is a lock for HOF if he stays healthy and continues playing at the level that he has.

Collins isn't and almost certainly wouldn't have made it, but damn he was good at his high. Special, special player.

If collins had continued the level he played at the year before it ended he would be mentioned with the great safeties. He was an eraser in both the run and pass game.

[RashanGary]

If collins had continued the level he played at the year before it ended he would be mentioned with the great safeties. He was an eraser in both the run and pass game.

Prime Collins, Woodson and Tramon was a nice start to the secondary

[red]

unrelated to whatever current bull shit argument you guys are having, but did you knows Davonte's wifes name is Devonne?

thats a little funny

[MadtownPacker]

unrelated to whatever current bull shit argument you guys are having, but did you knows Davonte's wifes name is Devonne?

thats a little funnyLike Jack and Jill but she is a fine Latina that he met at Fresno state I believe.

[red]

Like Jack and Jill but she is a fine Latina that he met at Fresno state I believe.

eh, she's like a latina 6, i've seen much better

her head is like twice as big as his and she's about half his height

[smuggler]

She's decent looking for a normal person, only meh for an elite type. I'm sure she has a lot of enthusiasm, and that makes up for a lot.