Avenues to get better?

[RashanGary]

We have 4 bad games to start the season and a decent one against the Bears. It doesnt look good. The OL can’t protect. The defense can’t stop the run and isn’t very good against the pass either. It doesn’t look like a contender right now.


Maybe Jenkins and Bakh round into shape. Maybe we have a lucky healthy year and things start to click as teams are decimated by injury. Maybe we lean into the run game a little more.

But it doesn’t look good. Are they gonna turn it around? And how?

[beveaux1]

We are what we are. We're not changing DCs until after the season, and this is our defense. We've put 5 games on tape, and OCs have a plan that can beat us.

Our offensive hope was built around our rookie WRs growing into the game. Watson is Watkins-a hammy waiting to happen. Doubs can't run most of his routes to the right depth and he has suspect hands.
Rodgers is Rodgers, a guy who loves the quick strike-even without weapons. A guy who would much rather pass than run---at the goal line---on 3rd and 2 in 4 down territory. Really, pretty much any time.

Our head coach can't control Rodgers, he can't adjust when the game plan needs to be adjusted. He does usually start with a pretty good plan.

Maybe that's enough to win 10 or 11. Maybe it's not. It's what we've got.

[red]

We are what we are. We're not changing DCs until after the season, and this is our defense. We've put 5 games on tape, and OCs have a plan that can beat us.

Our offensive hope was built around our rookie WRs growing into the game. Watson is Watkins-a hammy waiting to happen. Doubs can't run most of his routes to the right depth and he has suspect hands.
Rodgers is Rodgers, a guy who loves the quick strike-even without weapons. A guy who would much rather pass than run---at the goal line---on 3rd and 2 in 4 down territory. Really, pretty much any time.

Our head coach can't control Rodgers, he can't adjust when the game plan needs to be adjusted. He does usually start with a pretty good plan.

Maybe that's enough to win 10 or 11. Maybe it's not. It's what we've got.

i was gonna say changed DC's and start running the kid coaches offense

but yu pretty much summed up why those aren't gonna happen

we are what we are. not as good as a of of people thought we would be

[King Friday]

There are minimal ways to improve. The OL is what it is. Bahk is a shell of his former self, and won’t be back to an All Pro level at any point in the future. The rest of the OL keeps playing musical chairs to offset for that, to their detriment. Rodgers refuses to be in charge of a run first offense, and will never take what the defense gives him. Defensively, we are led by a guy who had a full offseason to prepare for the Vikings, and crafted a game plan that covered Jefferson with LBs. That should tell you all you need to know right there.

Packers will win 10-11 games this year, may squeak into the playoffs, but won’t scare anyone with their lack of dynamic playmakers on either side of the ball. Rodgers is likely gone after this season, because he will realize he has no chance to get back to a SB in Green Bay now. Love will be a horrific flop. MLF doesn’t have the balls to actually fire assistant coaches that need to be fired. The Packers face an uncertain future over the next 3-5 years.

[bobblehead]

I love the smell of napalm in the morning.


There are a ton of avenues to improve. There also are problems that may not get better. Playing 2 halves of football on offense would be a start. And yes, Rodgers seems to figure he made his point so he can go back to playing the same way that inspired them to draft Love in the first place.

[bobblehead]

Personally I think banging Giselle seems to be the key to Sampson's strength. We want an owl.... Rodgers needs to make his move. In the immortal words of the joker.....never rub another mans rubarb. Tap Giselle and i promise Brady is finished.

[Jaire]

The O line can improve a lot. It depends on Jenkins and Bakh getting back to health. Also would like to see someone else take Newman's spot. When Bakh is back would like Jenkins to move inside. Someone needs to step up and take the right tackle position.

The defense obviously is not playing to ability.

Way too early to give up on this team. Too much talent and a lot of youth that needs reps. But before season started, I thought the Oline was most critical to success: and that will take some time. I don't expect to see what this team can do til at least mid season.

The giants came to play.

[Jaire]

Also this is a real opportunity to see what this team is made of.

They have had very few losses like this under MLF. 17-0 in the second half was a bad performance against a less talented team. The locker room is down. Next Sunday seems to me a key game.

[ThunderDan]

The Packers have to figure out how to make adjustments during the game.

We had a great game plan going into the game. Our D played well in the first half. So did our offense. We shut the run game down and the Giants adjust their game plan and went to play action with crossing routes. They ate us up after that point. Berry didn’t seem to make any adjustment to the change in NY’s O. The O game out and threw the ball all over the field in the 2nd half and abandoned the run.

It wasn’t until the last drive that we went back to the run game and quick passing game and we moved the ball again.

I put this loss squarely on the coaching.

[red]

The Packers have to figure out how to make adjustments during the game.

We had a great game plan going into the game. Our D played well in the first half. So did our offense. We shut the run game down and the Giants adjust their game plan and went to play action with crossing routes. They ate us up after that point. Berry didn’t seem to make any adjustment to the change in NY’s O. The O game out and threw the ball all over the field in the 2nd half and abandoned the run.

It wasn’t until the last drive that we went back to the run game and quick passing game and we moved the ball again.

I put this loss squarely on the coaching.

and its not the first time this staff has been out-adjusted at half time this season

[Bretsky]

I don't know if any of us caught this, but it was VERY telling that in interviews Matty L noted to the media that he had a chat with Joe Barry about our defensive philosophy.
For the most part nobody cares for Barry it seems, in the media and amongst us.

Petting was fired, and basically our defensive rating last year was about he same as it was last year. All of this zone crap has to go.

What was telling is we played some decent man in the first half, and then last drive of first half when the Giants scored on us...seemed to send Joeb back to zoneworld.

So we have Matty and JoeB as buddies from the past, but Matty is questioning the strategy. Interesting

[Bretsky]

I've always thought there are going to be some bumps in the road due to our youth but hopefully we are the team everybody fears about the bye week and into the playoffs

[Bretsky]

RANDOM THOUGHT

WAY TOO EARLY TO TELL, but all these added draft picks are not doing SHIT for us.

We had "2" first round draft picks and "2" second round draft picks.

We got Walker, who loos decent. Wyatt, who hasn't shown much and is giving us nothing. And with BOTH 2nd round draft picks, we have Chrissy.

I hope things look WAY better for GUTEBAG soon on this return out of the 4 picks

[red]

I don't know if any of us caught this, but it was VERY telling that in interviews Matty L noted to the media that he had a chat with Joe Barry about our defensive philosophy.
For the most part nobody cares for Barry it seems, in the media and amongst us.

Petting was fired, and basically our defensive rating last year was about he same as it was last year. All of this zone crap has to go.

What was telling is we played some decent man in the first half, and then last drive of first half when the Giants scored on us...seemed to send Joeb back to zoneworld.

So we have Matty and JoeB as buddies from the past, but Matty is questioning the strategy. Interesting

we have 3 really good corners, including one of the very best. our safeties are fine. so why the hell are we not playing man?

[beveaux1]

we have 3 really good corners, including one of the very best. our safeties are fine. so why the hell are we not playing man?

I don't think Douglas is a man corner. Too soon to tell on Stokes. He really hasn't played it much. The prevailing thought is you're usually either zone or man and you're drafted as either a zone or man corner.

[call_me_ishmael]

Lotta ball game left. Vic Fangio is just sitting at home waiting for the phone call. Pick it up Matty.

They need to figure out offense. That is more troubling to me than the D.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

we have 3 really good corners, including one of the very best. our safeties are fine. so why the hell are we not playing man?

Stokes allowed 3-4 completions playing man. Savage had an abominable day - could not cover nor tackle anyone.

The defense is just too fucking predictable. 4 men rush with the rushers doing stints, all day. Occasionally, Walker or Campbell blitzes through the A-gap. How about a corner blitz? An all out blitz? Zone blitz?

Honestly, I miss Dom Capers.

[texaspackerbacker]

From winning ugly to losing ugly. Shit. Plenty of good comments, though, here and the gameday thread.

Hell yeah, lousy coaching - we got horribly outcoached on both sides of the ball. Somebody said "something like doing less with more"? Absolutely. That especially describes the Packers D. I doubt any DC in the whole league has more talent to work with than Barry, but he manages to fuck it up, bad enough in the close ugly wins and culminated in the loss today. Barry didn't make any adjustments to what the Giants were doing? Disgustingly true. He basically doesn't make any adjustments - any that work anyway - to what any other team does. Somebody said fire him and replace him with Gray; Yeah, maybe. A large part of the problem is playing to much zone pass D and not playing it very well. Is that on Barry? Or on Gray? If it's Gray's doing, I don't want him either.

And it seems like a lot of people are coming around to what I've been saying for years about the Packers O Line - mediocre on a good day, pure shit on a bad one. Other teams open holes to run; Other teams pass protect; For all practical purposes, we do not. Is there an avenue to improve that? I don't know. I don't think it's just having Bakhtiari and Jenkins get healthier or whatever. IMO, Jenkins ain't a Tackle, never was one, and never will be a good one. I do think (and said before anybody else started saying it) he should go back to Guard where he was very decent. And IMO - as that worshippers of the sacred cow really hate hearing - Bakhtiari has always been overrated and was not much better than mediocre even before the injury. That's just now being noticed. Why? (next paragraph)

NOBODY is a bigger supporter of Aaron Rodgers than I am, but sadly, he seems to have declined a little bit this season. Sure, part of it is lower quality receivers without Adams, but that's not the biggest thing. The O Line has stunk it up and kept Rodgers under constant pressure, but IMO it was always pretty much that way, just in the past, he mostly had the mobility and receivers to overcome it. The biggest thing I see in Rodgers, though, is deterioration albeit slight in his magnificent level of accuracy. With all that, he's still the best in the league mainly because of his mindset not to throw interceptions. What I see in that area, though, is a general tendency around the league to emulate Rodgers in that way and throw less stupid passes into coverage and get picked.

And what about the playcalling? Was that on LaFleur? or on Rodgers? or only noticeable because of the shittiness of the O Line and to a lesser extent the receivers? Somebody commented they doubted it was LaFleur calling those unsuccessful long passes late in the game. Maybe. They weren't RPOs, as there woulda been linemen down field. Did Rodgers change the call at the line? If that's the case, LaFleur needs to grow a pair and assert coaching control. If Rodgers had his usual accuracy or if he'd had more time to throw, it probably wouldn't have made a difference, though. 3rd and 2 on the last drive, why didn't we just run it into the line - once, twice if necessary? Maybe because we couldn't. It's a sad fact that when other teams' D know a run is coming, there's about zero hope of success with our O Line.

So what's the best avenue to improve? Is it time to just R E L A X? Maybe, but there are real problems. The O Line probably isn't correctable in the short term, but we've always won with that situation anyway. Defense, though, needs to be fixed, and Rodgers needs to be a little more accurate if possible. More early down running? Hell no.

[Fritz]

We are what we are. We're not changing DCs until after the season, and this is our defense. We've put 5 games on tape, and OCs have a plan that can beat us.

Our offensive hope was built around our rookie WRs growing into the game. Watson is Watkins-a hammy waiting to happen. Doubs can't run most of his routes to the right depth and he has suspect hands.
Rodgers is Rodgers, a guy who loves the quick strike-even without weapons. A guy who would much rather pass than run---at the goal line---on 3rd and 2 in 4 down territory. Really, pretty much any time.

Our head coach can't control Rodgers, he can't adjust when the game plan needs to be adjusted. He does usually start with a pretty good plan.

Maybe that's enough to win 10 or 11. Maybe it's not. It's what we've got.

Wow, flashbacks to Mike Sherman and Brent Favre.

[Jaire]

Rodgers being "out of control" seems completely fabricated. In the presser he says he ran the plays that MLF called (specifically three that didn't work) and said he liked them.

The oline is the problem imo. I haven't seen this bad an OL ..... since Newhouse at Left Tackle (and that was just one spot). Still a mystery why we let Turner go. They could sure use him.

The offense we knew would be rough and a work in process, but for me it's always been about the line. The receivers seem adequate.

The real surprise is defense, and if they continue on this path, Joe may lose the locker room -- hard to do with this group.

[Fritz]

I think the o-line is salvageable but depends in part upon Bakh's health. The optimum line would be Bakh-Jenkins-Myers-Runyan-Nijman. You are the first person to say what I've been thinking - Billy Turner was awfully valuable.

WTF is going on with that defense, though? WTF? Gints down two touchdowns - a team that was super banged up and had almost no passing game. Yet they came back and won. To me, that's on Joe Barely.

[RashanGary]

The OL has been really bad. If Rodgers doesn’t get rid of it immediately, the defense is right in his lap. It’s both tackles and Newman. It’s bad.

[ThunderDan]

Before we throw the Oline completely under the bus, we scored 20 points in the first half and average almost 5 yards a run for the game.

To me the issue is when we decided to throw 20 yard passes over and over in the 2nd half instead of running the ball and getting first downs.

[ThunderDan]

The line has issue. But we sure didn't ha e issues moving the ball and scoring in the first half.

[red]

Wow, flashbacks to Mike Sherman and Brent Favre.

or mike mccarthy and arron rodgers

[beveaux1]

OL can improve as the year progresses. I have less hope for improvement with the defense. We’ve played 3 beat up teams in a row and our D has played all of them into the game.

[Jaire]

OL can improve as the year progresses. I have less hope for improvement with the defense. We’ve played 3 beat up teams in a row and our D has played all of them into the game.

The OL can improve if they stay healthy. It looks deep on paper but they seem afraid to put any young guys in, especially when Newman looks terrible. But it is a health issue. They probably should be running the ball more because the line plays the run better at this point. That's situational football: you're line is having probs protecting. Don't abandon the run or rather don't worry about eight in the box unless they show they can stop you.

But I strongly disagree, and maybe you just miswrote. The defense can improve vastly. This was the worst melt down in a game in the LaFleur era. very very ugly. In fact I can't remember a melt down in his tenure. Sure, they were outmatched against a couple teams at times, or came out flat and played badly. But this was a melt down against an inferior team. They allowed the Giants to score on five consecutive drives. The only direction is up. We'll see if Barry can fix it, since I think this is almost entirely on coaching: players not being used to their strengths. At times they play well, but at times they seem totally lost. Barry should be put on notice: he's making the Pettine firing look like a mistake.

[beveaux1]

This team needs a defense that can carry it through large portions of the game. I’m not convinced that the scheme we’re running fits the personnel on the field. They struggle with zone concepts, but then they struggle playing man.

Allowing Brady to march down the field to attempt to tie is different than allowing Zappe to take us to overtime and allowing Jones to score on 5 straight drives. All three of those teams did it with depleted rosters and with our defense showing no clue of how to get off the field. Two of the games showed we couldn’t stop the run, the last that we couldn’t cover the short zone.

The talent on that side of the ball is there with Gary, Clark, Stokes, Amos, Alexander, Campbell, and Walker. The results are not and it’s not getting better.

[texaspackerbacker]

We had success in the first half because those annoying sideward short passes were working along with a few RPOs. That set up whatever small success we had with inside zone runs. The Giants DC figured a way to stop the short pass game, and the Packers lame-assed O Line couldn't run without the element of surprise. They also, of course, couldn't pass protect for anything thrown down the field.

Next week is a matter of pride - LaFleur against his good friend and his brother. I expect better offense, and if the D isn't better, ideally they do get rid of Barry - but I wouldn't really expect that midseason.

[ThunderDan]

I seriously wonder after I read the above if we watched the same game.

The Packers scored on 4 of their 5 first half drives. The Giants D didn’t stop any thing. We went away from what was working in the 2nd half. When we went back to it we had no problem moving the ball again.

[texaspackerbacker]

Seriously? As I said, the Giants DC figured out how to stop what we were doing - unlike our own DC who can't figure out shit. LaFleur shoulda countered what they did with something else that worked, but he is severely limited by having a lame-assed O Line.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

From winning ugly to losing ugly. Shit. Plenty of good comments, though, here and the gameday thread.

Hell yeah, lousy coaching - we got horribly outcoached on both sides of the ball. Somebody said "something like doing less with more"? Absolutely. That especially describes the Packers D. I doubt any DC in the whole league has more talent to work with than Barry, but he manages to fuck it up, bad enough in the close ugly wins and culminated in the loss today. Barry didn't make any adjustments to what the Giants were doing? Disgustingly true. He basically doesn't make any adjustments - any that work anyway - to what any other team does. Somebody said fire him and replace him with Gray; Yeah, maybe. A large part of the problem is playing to much zone pass D and not playing it very well. Is that on Barry? Or on Gray? If it's Gray's doing, I don't want him either.

And it seems like a lot of people are coming around to what I've been saying for years about the Packers O Line - mediocre on a good day, pure shit on a bad one. Other teams open holes to run; Other teams pass protect; For all practical purposes, we do not. Is there an avenue to improve that? I don't know. I don't think it's just having Bakhtiari and Jenkins get healthier or whatever. IMO, Jenkins ain't a Tackle, never was one, and never will be a good one. I do think (and said before anybody else started saying it) he should go back to Guard where he was very decent. And IMO - as that worshippers of the sacred cow really hate hearing - Bakhtiari has always been overrated and was not much better than mediocre even before the injury. That's just now being noticed. Why? (next paragraph)

NOBODY is a bigger supporter of Aaron Rodgers than I am, but sadly, he seems to have declined a little bit this season. Sure, part of it is lower quality receivers without Adams, but that's not the biggest thing. The O Line has stunk it up and kept Rodgers under constant pressure, but IMO it was always pretty much that way, just in the past, he mostly had the mobility and receivers to overcome it. The biggest thing I see in Rodgers, though, is deterioration albeit slight in his magnificent level of accuracy. With all that, he's still the best in the league mainly because of his mindset not to throw interceptions. What I see in that area, though, is a general tendency around the league to emulate Rodgers in that way and throw less stupid passes into coverage and get picked.

And what about the playcalling? Was that on LaFleur? or on Rodgers? or only noticeable because of the shittiness of the O Line and to a lesser extent the receivers? Somebody commented they doubted it was LaFleur calling those unsuccessful long passes late in the game. Maybe. They weren't RPOs, as there woulda been linemen down field. Did Rodgers change the call at the line? If that's the case, LaFleur needs to grow a pair and assert coaching control. If Rodgers had his usual accuracy or if he'd had more time to throw, it probably wouldn't have made a difference, though. 3rd and 2 on the last drive, why didn't we just run it into the line - once, twice if necessary? Maybe because we couldn't. It's a sad fact that when other teams' D know a run is coming, there's about zero hope of success with our O Line.

So what's the best avenue to improve? Is it time to just R E L A X? Maybe, but there are real problems. The O Line probably isn't correctable in the short term, but we've always won with that situation anyway. Defense, though, needs to be fixed, and Rodgers needs to be a little more accurate if possible. More early down running? Hell no.

Something is fucked when Tex lacks optimism. The silver lining could end up being, amidst the sadness of a fucked Packer season, I might finally quit burger flipping.

[ThunderDan]

Seriously? As I said, the Giants DC figured out how to stop what we were doing - unlike our own DC who can't figure out shit. LaFleur shoulda countered what they did with something else that worked, but he is severely limited by having a lame-assed O Line.

And they did that by getting two of their CBs injured? As soon as the backup CBs came in the game, AROD tried to torch them. He completed one to Lazard on the first series after half time and then we had this horrible drive:

1st & 10 at GB 25
(10:03 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep right to A.Lazard.

2nd & 10 at GB 25
(10:03 - 4th) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short middle to R.Cobb (N.McCloud).

3rd & 10 at GB 25
(9:59 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep left to A.Lazard (F.Moreau).

After that we went back to the run and short pass. We moved the ball on 5 out of 8 drives with no problem for the game.

[texaspackerbacker]

And your point is? I said - or asked - if those seemingly dumb unsuccessful long passes were LaFleur's calls or if Rodgers changed the play at the line. Do you know for sure one way or the other? In hindsight, I guess we both agree they were mistakes. I knew they had one back up Corner in the game; If it was two like you say, then maybe trying to take advantage wasn't so dumb after all.

[texaspackerbacker]

Something is fucked when Tex lacks optimism. The silver lining could end up being, amidst the sadness of a fucked Packer season, I might finally quit burger flipping.

What are you reading in my post that says I lack optimism? 3-2 at this point when nobody is unbeaten except the Eagles - and that sure ain't gonna last - is NOT what I'd call a "fucked season". There's a lot of good teams looking kinda shaky so far. I'm pretty sure the offensive problems are very fixable, and we're loaded with talent on D. If Barry can't stop the bleeding, then maybe they really will get rid of him.

And is this breaking news or what? - you maybe quitting flipping burgers? Like firing Barry, should doesn't mean it will happen hahahaha.

[SudsMcBucky]

I put this loss squarely on the coaching.

Agree for a lot of it, but I'm also wondering how much AR audibled out of runs into passes in that 2nd half, especially on those 2 plays at the end.

[run pMc]

Plenty of avenues. Off the top of my head:

(1) Jenkins is really struggling at RT. Is he really the best option there after what they've seen for 4 weeks? Could Njiman or Tom do better? We know Jenkins can play G, I think he should move back. Don't worry about the contract- no matter where he plays, he's going to get paid a lot of money.

(2) Rasul should not be in the slot. Jaire is a more natural fit there.

(3) Improved tackling on defense. Campbell has missed more tackles than all of last year already, and the safeties have not looked great. I think Gute restocks at safety next offseason.

(4) More creativity and deception. The TD call to Marcedes was great, but generally speaking Daniel Jones, the Giants D, and Mark freaking Sanchez could all tell what GB was going to do pre-snap. Brian Daboll took MLF and Co to the coaching woodshed.

(5) Your biggest playmakers on offense are your RBs, feed them the ball. Rodgers and MLF have to realize they are a run-first team.

(6) Rookie WRs should improve over the season, APRH. (I'm not sure Watson has been healthy this year yet.)

[texaspackerbacker]

I just saw a LaFleur interview with Larry McCarren where LaFleur seemed to be saying he made the calls. He always has sort of a "buck stops hee" attitude, though, so I'd say it's still a question mark.

[drayge]

I just saw a LaFleur interview with Larry McCarren where LaFleur seemed to be saying he made the calls. He always has sort of a "buck stops hee" attitude, though, so I'd say it's still a question mark.

I just wonder how much FA Bryan Bulaga has left. It would seem an easy call in an "all in" season.

[run pMc]

I just saw a LaFleur interview with Larry McCarren where LaFleur seemed to be saying he made the calls. He always has sort of a "buck stops hee" attitude, though, so I'd say it's still a question mark.

Yeah, I mean he's not gonna throw Rodgers under the bus. Also, there's a theory that the pass plays on the 3-and-out were actually good play calls but bad execution since they had backup CBs in and 1v1 opportunities. With Rodgers getting leeway to audible it's hard to say. It looked like bad throws and hero-ball stuff to some.

Either way, I think when your defense just gives up a 8.5 minute TD drive you have to be able to pick up some 1st downs and give them a rest. GB barely had the ball in the 2nd half (3 possessions) and the defense couldn't get off the field. Jones and Dillon were being productive and even picking up a pair of 1st downs or a FG would have shifted the momentum of the game.

[SudsMcBucky]

(4) More creativity and deception. The TD call to Marcedes was great, but generally speaking Daniel Jones, the Giants D, and Mark freaking Sanchez could all tell what GB was going to do pre-snap. Brian Daboll took MLF and Co to the coaching woodshed.


Don't mock the Dirty Sanchez too much. He was able to take the freakin' Jets to back-to-back AFC Championship games. :)

[Vincenzo]

It’s too early to be thinking about contending RG, you bonehead.

[Sparkey]

For the season, Rodgers is 6-of-22 on passes thrown 20-plus yards downfield. That’s 27.3 percent. Of 30 quarterbacks with at least 10 deep attempts, that ranks 26th, according to Pro Football Focus. Even Marcus Mariota, Joe Flacco, Justin Fields and Mitchell Trubisky have been better from a percentage standpoint.

https://www.si.com/nfl/packers/news/packers-lose-to-giants-three-reasons-for-concern

[run pMc]

I'm fine with them attempting a deep shot off play action, but they need to do it when they are running the ball and in an advantageous situation. They don't have an automatic guy like Davante they can feed to bail them out.

Side note -- what is this team's identity? What do they do well? I don't think they are playing as if they are a run-oriented, strong defensive team. They don't run the ball enough and panic if they fall behind, giving up on the run too fast. The defense has tons of talent, but once again the whole is playing less than the sum of its parts. Barry has them playing a lot of standard Cover-x and zone stuff with the corners off and they still can't figure out how to handle simple crossing routes, or how to defend a mobile QB on rollouts.

They really don't have that many new faces starting on offense or defense, so I'm not sure if that's a good excuse either.

There's a lot of football season left, but I keep waiting for this team to put it all together and play a good game for 4 quarters in all phases and haven't seen it yet. I'm starting to wonder if maybe it just isn't going to happen at all this year, and that maddening inconsistency is actually their identity.

Right now this is a team who will at best lose in the wildcard round. Sorry, that game really made me mad...this team has enough talent to beat a lot of teams and it seems like they can't get out of their own way long enough to do it.

[RashanGary]

Elgton should get better as he gets stronger and settled in. Bakh concerns me because he was off his legs for 2 years. That’s a lot of atrophy. I don’t know if he’ll be himself this year. Newman is inconsistent. But do we have a better option? Tom is an undersized rookie and Rhyan isn’t ready. Hansen is probably a downgrade.

I could see them getting better at tackle just playing Yosh and having Jenkins settle in. Let Bakh build back strength on the bench and getting full workouts during the week.

At receiver, I see them getting better with Doubs. He’ll just keep getting better.



On defense Quay will improve but they don’t have too many other guys who are ascending. Maybe Stokes. They’re gonna have to get better by becoming more diverse in their scheme and being harder to predict.

Special teams is doing pretty well.


We’re just gonna have to hope for a lucky health year so we can solidify as other teams get decimated.

[RashanGary]

I just listened to Lafleur. He did say he wants to get more touches for Jones and Dillon. But he also said when they see those looks they want to pass. The problem with passing is that they don’t have good protection and they don’t have good receivers.

I think they should lean more into the run. It’s the strength of the offense. Even against tough looks, I like Jones chances better than Lazard, Cobb or Doubs.

But they’re not going to. They’re going to keep pushing this passing game and they’re going to keep being disappointed. They don’t have the horses for a reliable passing attack.

[King Friday]

The Packers have to trust the run. Aaron Jones has to touch the ball 20 times every week. 15 carries, 5 receptions. Need more from the TEs. The run is going to have to set up the pass for this team until there is more consistent play at receiver.

[Joemailman]

Matt Schneidman

Aaron Jones ranks first among all NFL RBs with 6.39 yards per carry.

He ranks tied for 19th in rushing attempts with 61.

MLF morphing into McCarthy?

[smuggler]

I'd go back three years and not let MLF force Pettine to move from the booth to the field and then not overreact and fire Pettine for Kevin King being a dumbass in an NFC Championship game where we intercepted Tom Brady 3 times in the second half.

Failing that, I'd force him to hire someone good at defensive coordinator instead of his buddy/sycophant Joe Berry.

Fully support a DC change in the off-season, regardless of how this year plays out.

[Bretsky]

[QUOTE=RashanGary;1121556]I just listened to Lafleur. He did say he wants to get more touches for Jones and Dillon. But he also said when they see those looks they want to pass. The problem with passing is that they don

[Bretsky]

I am disappointed in Matt LaFleur. I think it's the first time I've stated that formally.

He's not using his top two players on offense besides Sharon. It's not rocket science. I don't care what the Giants show you; you are in charge for the tempo.

And how he's treating the defense....another big strike against him

[Bretsky]

I just saw a LaFleur interview with Larry McCarren where LaFleur seemed to be saying he made the calls. He always has sort of a "buck stops hee" attitude, though, so I'd say it's still a question mark.


LaFleur calls in two play options; and AROD has the full capacity to choose which one. I fear he's lost control of AROD. I fear AROD's attitude is not good and I fear AROD is going to continue to check out of plays to pass downfield and each time GB loses, we'll have the same reaction. Where TF were AJ and AJ when we needed offense ?

[Freak Out]

That last play at the GL was mind blowing. Romeo was a TD but MVP throws right at the blitzers and a covered Lizard.

[Fosco33]

Packers near the bottom in forcing turnovers with 1 INT and 3 fumble recoveries for a -3 turnover margin.

I’m all for firing Barry right now. The whole ‘well, we gotta wait til next year’ is asinine. Imagine having a bad quarterback and being so reluctant to pull him.

It’s not acceptable to look this bad against a Fields, Zappe and an injured Giants team.

[Fritz]

I'm fine with them attempting a deep shot off play action, but they need to do it when they are running the ball and in an advantageous situation. They don't have an automatic guy like Davante they can feed to bail them out.

Side note -- what is this team's identity? What do they do well? I don't think they are playing as if they are a run-oriented, strong defensive team. They don't run the ball enough and panic if they fall behind, giving up on the run too fast. The defense has tons of talent, but once again the whole is playing less than the sum of its parts. Barry has them playing a lot of standard Cover-x and zone stuff with the corners off and they still can't figure out how to handle simple crossing routes, or how to defend a mobile QB on rollouts.

They really don't have that many new faces starting on offense or defense, so I'm not sure if that's a good excuse either.

There's a lot of football season left, but I keep waiting for this team to put it all together and play a good game for 4 quarters in all phases and haven't seen it yet. I'm starting to wonder if maybe it just isn't going to happen at all this year, and that maddening inconsistency is actually their identity.

Right now this is a team who will at best lose in the wildcard round. Sorry, that game really made me mad...this team has enough talent to beat a lot of teams and it seems like they can't get out of their own way long enough to do it.

This is a very good post.What is this team's identity? "Sucky o-line play, MLF morphing into Fat Mike, Arod morphing into 2018 self, all with a passive defense" seems to fit the bill so far.

[beveaux1]

LaFleur calls in two play options; and AROD has the full capacity to choose which one. I fear he's lost control of AROD. I fear AROD's attitude is not good and I fear AROD is going to continue to check out of plays to pass downfield and each time GB loses, we'll have the same reaction. Where TF were AJ and AJ when we needed offense ?

He begged Rodgers to come back. Literally, begged him. The GM allowed him to bring his own player to the team. There's no way that MLF doesn't allow him to call and change plays. There's no way he criticizes him for choosing the wrong play. There's also no way he exerts any control over Rodgers.

That dog left the room when Rodgers saw the video.

[Bretsky]

That last play at the GL was mind blowing. Romeo was a TD but MVP throws right at the blitzers and a covered Lizard.


It's also mind blowing that Cobb has 13 targets.

[Bretsky]

He begged Rodgers to come back. Literally, begged him. The GM allowed him to bring his own player to the team. There's no way that MLF doesn't allow him to call and change plays. There's no way he criticizes him for choosing the wrong play. There's also no way he exerts any control over Rodgers.

That dog left the room when Rodgers saw the video.


Unfortunately I agree with all of this at this point

[Bretsky]

This is a very good post.What is this team's identity? "Sucky o-line play, MLF morphing into Fat Mike, Arod morphing into 2018 self, all with a passive defense" seems to fit the bill so far.



WHERE DO WE HAVE ADVANTAGES ON OFFENSE ?

One might argue Nowhere. That's on Gutebag.

One might argue RB; then you gotta ride that pony.

[bobblehead]

And they did that by getting two of their CBs injured? As soon as the backup CBs came in the game, AROD tried to torch them. He completed one to Lazard on the first series after half time and then we had this horrible drive:

1st & 10 at GB 25
(10:03 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep right to A.Lazard.

2nd & 10 at GB 25
(10:03 - 4th) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short middle to R.Cobb (N.McCloud).

3rd & 10 at GB 25
(9:59 - 4th) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete deep left to A.Lazard (F.Moreau).

After that we went back to the run and short pass. We moved the ball on 5 out of 8 drives with no problem for the game.
Stop with your facts and logic. Packers lost and there is simply no hope!

[bobblehead]

Just to clear up one point. If coach calls an RPO, I'm pretty sure Rodgers decides at the line which way to go.

[call_me_ishmael]

Who is the DC if Barry is gone? The DB coach? I could get behind that.

I

[call_me_ishmael]

Who is the DC if Barry is gone? The DB coach? I could get behind that.

Id like to see them start throwing to the rookies and move on from this ridiculous old man and slow man experiment. Lazard is a blocker and a solid #3, not a number one.

[RashanGary]

Who is the DC if Barry is gone? The DB coach? I could get behind that.

Id like to see them start throwing to the rookies and move on from this ridiculous old man and slow man experiment. Lazard is a blocker and a solid #3, not a number one.

Agree. Lazard was fine as the 2nd guy behind Adams but ideally he’s a 3. I hope Doubs progresses fast because it’s our best hope.

[Bretsky]

Just to clear up one point. If coach calls an RPO, I'm pretty sure Rodgers decides at the line which way to go.

Yup this

[Bretsky]

Who is the DC if Barry is gone? The DB coach? I could get behind that.

I


Jerry Gray is the "INTERIM DC"; and then you hire a better candidate after this year.

If we don't have the balls to make him an interim DC you just die with Barry this year and figure things out next year

[Bretsky]

SHARON on the radio show with his TOOL last week

“I’ve talked many times about our best 11,” Rodgers told “The Pat McAfee Show.” Over and over, ‘Big Dog’ has shown up, dominating the line of scrimmage in the run game. I hope we can keep giving him opportunities, here and there in the pass game when we can. He’s very elusive with the ball in his hands. He can do little things in the passing game, especially in the red zone, so I hope we can get him some more looks.”

“We gotta get Allen more involved too, whether that’s calling more plays for him or me giving him a few more looks. Allen is such a talented guy for us, we have to find ways of getting the ball in his hands.”

[Bretsky]

I have an idea for Rodgers

SUAP

SHUT UP AND PLAY

[texaspackerbacker]

Just to clear up one point. If coach calls an RPO, I'm pretty sure Rodgers decides at the line which way to go.

Clearing things up, you can't pass downfield that far on an RPO or else the O Linemen will be downfield and get a penalty.

[Teamcheez1]

I guess the thing that bothers me most is the coaching. We all knew that the team would probably face some turbulence when Rodgers hung it up. It was completely unexpected that we would be failing on both sides of the ball due to coaching and execution before Rodgers retired.

I’m not as optimistic as some that MLF can right the ship this season. Coaches often have tunnel vision as to what the real solutions are to fix their problems. The obvious example is how long our special teams languished. I hope they prove me wrong.

[jklowan]

This team does not appear to do much well and seems to be built to run the football and hold steady on D. This last game seemed like Rogers decided to play hero ball which has worked in the past. He does not have the receivers to play hero ball. The formula of a good D and running team will win you a lot of ball games and I hope the coaches can drill it into his thick skull. We do not appear to be a Superbowl contender right now and could not even make the playoffs if he continues down that path. I had really high hopes for this team but they are proving to be not very likeable and the close games are becoming very predictable. Hope we can right this ship soon, we lose to the Jets this week and I think Lafluer loses the locker room and this season gets away.

[texaspackerbacker]

Sheeeesh, lose a game to a fairly week team (which is now 4-1) and the panicky fools really come out from under their rocks.

We're 3-2. This shit - losing to lesser teams - happens every year. It happened 3 or 4 times each of the last couple of seasons. Yeah, there are things that piss people off, me included, but it's a helluva lot less bad for us Packer fans over the long haul that it has been for just about any other team's fans in football or any other sport.

We could get better - the avenue to improve thing - by getting rid of Barry, probably anyway. We also could and will win a helluva lot of games even if we don't. Substitute McCarthy for Barry in what I just said - people were saying get rid of him for years. We finally did get rid of him, and we improved - from great to even greater.

The only one we can't afford to get rid of is, of course, our GOAT QB. And unfortunately, that's gonna happen in somewhere between 1 and 10 years. Then, the team really nosedives. The whiny piss ants complaining now about Rodgers should keep that in mind.

[Fritz]

Sheeeesh, lose a game to a fairly week team (which is now 4-1) and the panicky fools really come out from under their rocks.

We're 3-2. This shit - losing to lesser teams - happens every year. It happened 3 or 4 times each of the last couple of seasons. Yeah, there are things that piss people off, me included, but it's a helluva lot less bad for us Packer fans over the long haul that it has been for just about any other team's fans in football or any other sport.

We could get better - the avenue to improve thing - by getting rid of Barry, probably anyway. We also could and will win a helluva lot of games even if we don't. Substitute McCarthy for Barry in what I just said - people were saying get rid of him for years. We finally did get rid of him, and we improved - from great to even greater.

The only one we can't afford to get rid of is, of course, our GOAT QB. And unfortunately, that's gonna happen in somewhere between 1 and 10 years. Then, the team really nosedives. The whiny piss ants complaining now about Rodgers should keep that in mind.


While I agree with the first part of your post, Tex, it is in the nature of fans to think short-term. We're only fans, so we get to and tend to do that. But you're right - it's a long season, and things do change. That's what makes all this compelling.

I saw this quote on some Packers site (poor attribution, I know): "When things go bad for the Packers, they seem to go really bad. Arguably the biggest deficiency over the course of the Matt LaFleur era has been this team

[bobblehead]

Clearing things up, you can't pass downfield that far on an RPO or else the O Linemen will be downfield and get a penalty.

He makes a call tex. He isn't there to surprise his OL. RED, RED, RED. That would be a call that everyone on the field understands.

[bobblehead]

I guess the thing that bothers me most is the coaching. We all knew that the team would probably face some turbulence when Rodgers hung it up. It was completely unexpected that we would be failing on both sides of the ball due to coaching and execution before Rodgers retired.

I’m not as optimistic as some that MLF can right the ship this season. Coaches often have tunnel vision as to what the real solutions are to fix their problems. The obvious example is how long our special teams languished. I hope they prove me wrong.

13 wins 3 straight years. 3-2 having been forced to play in London in a game we dropped = FAIL To me that attitude = SPOILED

[bobblehead]

This team does not appear to do much well and seems to be built to run the football and hold steady on D.

Except win games. Over the last 44 games they have done that better than any team in the NFL. But other than that we don't do much well.

[bobblehead]

Sheeeesh, lose a game to a fairly week team (which is now 4-1) and the panicky fools really come out from under their rocks.


FFS you guys are making tex look rational. Think about that. Look in the mirror. Tex is the voice of reason...even he would admit that is scary.

[texaspackerbacker]

I didn't understand that quote, Fritz. What team? Or did the website mess up and the quote wasn't complete?

[texaspackerbacker]

Bobblehead, I think you're confused on what an RPO is. The run play is called. There is no determination whether it's gonna be a run or a pass until after the snap. That's different from LaFleur sending in two plays, and Rodgers calls one depending on what he sees pre-snap.

As I said - twice, I think, you can't throw it very far downfield on an RPO or you'll have linemen illegally downfield.

[run pMc]

FFS you guys are making tex look rational. Think about that. Look in the mirror. Tex is the voice of reason...even he would admit that is scary.

LOL tex is right that when passing out of an RPO it is generally a very short throw. Rodgers has a very low air yards/throw this year because of all the RPOs, as well as his poor accuracy on deep throws.

I think Fritz got his comment cut but the website. Darn quote marks.

[jklowan]

"Except win games. Over the last 44 games they have done that better than any team in the NFL. But other than that we don't do much well."

I'm not talking about past seasons I'm talking about this year. This team has yet to really beat anyone. We barely beat the Pats with a 3rd string QB, We barely beat a terrible Bear's team and the Bucs that had no receivers among many other starters out, not an impressive start by anyones measure. I'd even say that this team is playing closer to a bottom 5 team than a top 5 ymmv.

[Bretsky]

Except win games. Over the last 44 games they have done that better than any team in the NFL. But other than that we don't do much well.


Wait, do Super Bowl's not count ? :))

[run pMc]

I think the issue is that this is supposed to be a softer part of the schedule, and they haven't looked very good. Who have they played?
The Vikings are an actual team, but then it was
the Justin Fields Experiment - where the run D got gashed,
squeaking past Tampa - where Brady was behind a bad OL with nobody to throw to
and NE with a 3rd string QB and a 6 man OL destroying the run D in the 2nd half.
and NYG in London where Daniel freaking Jones looked more like Rodgers than Rodgers and led a 15 play, 91 yard drive without Saquon on the field.

Rodgers only plays one good half per game
MLF abandons the run
the run D takes every other week off
the pass D can't cover crossers or communicate with each other
Coached can't make in-game adjustments when their game plan isn't working. (something something always have a plan B)

Normally the NYJ game would be one where people would be expecting a double digit win but now it's looking like they are all going to be struggles until they can solve their issues. I don't think it's talent -- the starting defense is mostly Day 1/Day 2 picks... these aren't scrubs. It's coaching and execution that are lacking, and I hope they come out and start playing as pissed off as their fans are. Until then they're Paper Tigers

[Joemailman]

Packers defense is last in the NFL with 7 passes defensed. Next worst is Pats and Bears with 14. Not surprisingly, Packers have just 1 INT. Hard to get INT's when you're not making any plays on the ball.

[Fritz]

Yes, that quote got cut off. The essence of the quote is that in the MLF era, the Packers struggle with bouncing back from adversity in games. The implication I think is that they lack some mental toughness.

But it is a long season. Things will change. They always do. We just don't know how.

I am glad to see Kylin Hill come back. He's a good back and can return kicks. The less we see Amari "Doh!" Rodgers on the field, the better. And Christian Watson's hurt - again, or still? - so he might not be able to return kicks. I am sure Hill won't be activated right away, but I'm hoping in a couple of weeks he'll be back.

[Joemailman]

Yes, that quote got cut off. The essence of the quote is that in the MLF era, the Packers struggle with bouncing back from adversity in games. The implication I think is that they lack some mental toughness.

But it is a long season. Things will change. They always do. We just don't know how.

I am glad to see Kylin Hill come back. He's a good back and can return kicks. The less we see Amari "Doh!" Rodgers on the field, the better. And Christian Watson's hurt - again, or still? - so he might not be able to return kicks. I am sure Hill won't be activated right away, but I'm hoping in a couple of weeks he'll be back.

The good news, at least for this week, is that they always bounce back from a regular season loss. After all the talk about not utilizing Jones and Dillon last week, that will change. Hopefully we'll see a defense that looks a lot more aggressive.

[bobblehead]

Bobblehead, I think you're confused on what an RPO is. The run play is called. There is no determination whether it's gonna be a run or a pass until after the snap. That's different from LaFleur sending in two plays, and Rodgers calls one depending on what he sees pre-snap.

As I said - twice, I think, you can't throw it very far downfield on an RPO or you'll have linemen illegally downfield.

I admit that there was no RPO when I played so I'm not as versed as I am in say ZBS. And in the case of very quick short passes I think you are probably right that sometimes that isn't decided until after the snap. However I have read up a bit and many of the plays are opted out of at the line. Those plays would allow a longer pass. And I'm not even claiming that Rodgers is fucking everything up. I was merely pointing out that hammering LaFleur for not calling enough running plays isn't he entire equation. I don't even mind the shots downfield to be honest. You put that stuff on tape. Teams have to account for it.

[bobblehead]

"Except win games. Over the last 44 games they have done that better than any team in the NFL. But other than that we don't do much well."

I'm not talking about past seasons I'm talking about this year. This team has yet to really beat anyone. We barely beat the Pats with a 3rd string QB, We barely beat a terrible Bear's team and the Bucs that had no receivers among many other starters out, not an impressive start by anyones measure. I'd even say that this team is playing closer to a bottom 5 team than a top 5 ymmv.

And I'm saying we are 3-2 and in need of improvement in several aspects. We are 5 games into a season with 2 rookie WR playing major snaps. We run the ball exceptionally well. We have a HoF QB that has a track record of improving as he gets comfortable with his weapons. We have the core of a team that won 13 games last year and ST is not a dumpster fire.

So, through 5 games what we "do well" is play really good football in the first 2 quarters. I have confidence that they put it together. I'll panic when we need help to get into the playoffs.

[bobblehead]

Wait, do Super Bowl's not count ? :))

By that definition 31 teams in the NFL suck every year.

[bobblehead]

Packers defense is last in the NFL with 7 passes defensed. Next worst is Pats and Bears with 14. Not surprisingly, Packers have just 1 INT. Hard to get INT's when you're not making any plays on the ball.

But I thought everyone is running all over us so they just don't bother to pass? Isn't that the case??

[bobblehead]

Yes, that quote got cut off. The essence of the quote is that in the MLF era, the Packers struggle with bouncing back from adversity in games. The implication I think is that they lack some mental toughness.


Ya know, they got the same rap in the fat mike era....What is the main consistency throughout these regimes?

[Joemailman]

But I thought everyone is running all over us so they just don't bother to pass? Isn't that the case??

Packers defense has faced 133 rushing attempts and 133 passing attempts. The average is 171 passing attempts vs 132 rushing attempts. The Packers defense has faced the fewest number of plays in the NFL. They are giving up 4.8 yards per rush which ranks 22nd. They are giving up 6.1 yards per pass attempt which ranks 11th. This despite giving up a completion pct of 72.9% which is the worst in the NFL. The reason is they are giving up only 10 yards per completion which ranks 8th. They have produced only 4 turnovers which ranks 26th. So really the only think the defense has done well is avoid giving up the big pass play.

[Bretsky]

By that definition 31 teams in the NFL suck every year.

By that admission, if there were three Super Bowl winners over the last 44 games I would definitely consider them more successful that anybody with a better record

And yes, there is only one Big Show a year. The other 31 teams are somewhere between crap and 2nd place

[beveaux1]

Packers defense has faced 133 rushing attempts and 133 passing attempts. The average is 171 passing attempts vs 132 rushing attempts. The Packers defense has faced the fewest number of plays in the NFL. They are giving up 4.8 yards per rush which ranks 22nd. They are giving up 6.1 yards per pass attempt which ranks 11th. This despite giving up a completion pct of 72.9% which is the worst in the NFL. The reason is they are giving up only 10 yards per completion which ranks 8th. They have produced only 4 turnovers which ranks 26th. So really the only think the defense has done well is avoid giving up the big pass play.

This is what I see when we’re on defense. Pretty bad at everything. We’ve played one good offense-our first game- and four very subpar offenses. We really have nowhere to go but up.

[bobblehead]

Packers defense has faced 133 rushing attempts and 133 passing attempts. The average is 171 passing attempts vs 132 rushing attempts. The Packers defense has faced the fewest number of plays in the NFL. They are giving up 4.8 yards per rush which ranks 22nd. They are giving up 6.1 yards per pass attempt which ranks 11th. This despite giving up a completion pct of 72.9% which is the worst in the NFL. The reason is they are giving up only 10 yards per completion which ranks 8th. They have produced only 4 turnovers which ranks 26th. So really the only think the defense has done well is avoid giving up the big pass play.

You described a very average defense which sounds about what my eyes have told me. And I agree, given the capital spent it should be better. But the source of this teams woes is 2nd half offense.

[bobblehead]

By that admission, if there were three Super Bowl winners over the last 44 games I would definitely consider them more successful that anybody with a better record

And yes, there is only one Big Show a year. The other 31 teams are somewhere between crap and 2nd place

We have a different definition of success. Yours involves a lot of luck and timing. Mine is simply what teams fielded the best team.

Rams, Buccaneers and Chiefs. I would argue we were better than TB and should have knocked them out but for some sketchy reffing and some bad decisions by ARod.

The Chiefs are arguably better than us over that time span...Rams, not so much. Getting to the playoffs is skill. Winning an Owl is a combination of skill/luck/timing. We have failed in that regard, but we did have 2 NFCC games to show and then a garbage one and out.

I get it. Fans want to win an Owl every year, to go along with a world series and NBA championship. I view the world in a bigger picture. I know that even dominant teams fall short. Middleton gets hurt. Some random 3rd baseman gets red hot. Winning titles takes talent, but so much more.

If we limp into the playoffs at 9-7 then get hot and win an owl, I'll be thrilled. But I won't consider it a more successful team than the 2 season of 13-3 with NFCC games.

[texaspackerbacker]

"If we limp into the playoffs at 9-7 then get hot and win an owl, I'll be thrilled. But I won't consider it a more successful team than the 2 season of 13-3 with NFCC games." - If you're saying what I think you're saying and not just somehow being sarcastic, then I tend to agree with what comes after the "but".

Myself, I think the ship gets righted, and the Packers go something like 13-4, I'd be thoroughly delighted with the season whatever happens in the playoffs. That all the way to the Super Bowl is just frosting on the cake IMO.

[Bretsky]

We have a different definition of success. Yours involves a lot of luck and timing. Mine is simply what teams fielded the best team.

Rams, Buccaneers and Chiefs. I would argue we were better than TB and should have knocked them out but for some sketchy reffing and some bad decisions by ARod.

The Chiefs are arguably better than us over that time span...Rams, not so much. Getting to the playoffs is skill. Winning an Owl is a combination of skill/luck/timing. We have failed in that regard, but we did have 2 NFCC games to show and then a garbage one and out.

I get it. Fans want to win an Owl every year, to go along with a world series and NBA championship. I view the world in a bigger picture. I know that even dominant teams fall short. Middleton gets hurt. Some random 3rd baseman gets red hot. Winning titles takes talent, but so much more.

If we limp into the playoffs at 9-7 then get hot and win an owl, I'll be thrilled. But I won't consider it a more successful team than the 2 season of 13-3 with NFCC games.


There is plenty of Luck with Wins and losses as well as strength of schedule...aka...being in fruitcake divisions. I'll take championships. And I'll take a 9 and 7 championship over a 13 and 3 any day

[RashanGary]

There is plenty of Luck with Wins and losses as well as strength of schedule...aka...being in fruitcake divisions. I'll take championships. And I'll take a 9 and 7 championship over a 13 and 3 any day

Me too. 2010 is the most memorable packer season of the Rodgers era because we won an Owl. Even though it was a 10-6 regular season, it was the best one we’ve had since the last one.

[bobblehead]

So if we all agree that the owl is the goal, why all the doom and gloom in week 5?

[bobblehead]

Do ya feel like maybe you walked into that one?

[Joemailman]

So if we all agree that the owl is the goal, why all the doom and gloom in week 5?

Because there's no way a 3-2 team is going on to win the Super Bowl! The last time the Packers won the Super Bowl, after 5 games they were...er...3-2. :oops:

If you're wondering, in game 6 that year they lost at home in overtime to an AFC East team.

[QBME]

Because there's no way a 3-2 team is going on to win the Super Bowl! The last time the Packers won the Super Bowl, after 5 games they were...er...3-2. :oops:

If you're wondering, in game 6 that year they lost at home in overtime to an AFC East team.

Awesome.
Thanks Joe.

IMHO, what's needed is a player's only locker room meeting when'st a couple of guys stand up and deliver a peel the paint off the wall missive; is you is, or is you ain't?

[Joemailman]

Because there's no way a 3-2 team is going on to win the Super Bowl! The last time the Packers won the Super Bowl, after 5 games they were...er...3-2. :oops:

If you're wondering, in game 6 that year they lost at home in overtime to an AFC East team.

I think we can run the table.