Official 2023 NFL Draft Thread

[Joemailman]

do we really have that many picks, or are you projecting trades?

if we have that many picks then we definitely don't need that many rookies, time to make some trades

I think he did some trade backs. Right now I think Packers are expected to have their own picks in 1-4 round, 2 5th's, no 6th and several 7th's.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

My woke black friend who was raised by a white mom and acts more white than anyone I know told me all white people are white supremacists. Wake up.

Oh oh, sounds like banned talk..

[ThunderDan]

do we really have that many picks, or are you projecting trades?

if we have that many picks then we definitely don't need that many rookies, time to make some trades

I traded our 3rd round pick for a later 3rd Rd and 4th Rd. Traded the new 4th Rd for the later 4th, 5th, 6th & 7th.

I figure we have to dump $20,000,000 in salary cap by the start of the year. There are going to be a bunch of roster spots for rookies or league minimum vets to keep us under the cap this year no matter what we do with Arod.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Ted Thompson had great luck drafting WRs in the second round. But the best one he took was a white supremacist from Kansas State. Let that sink in.

lol.

I would think 17 has surpassed 87 as the Polar Bear’s best WR draft pick. But 87 has a ring, so you might be right.

85 was pretty good, too. Taking about Greg Jennings, not Terrence Murphy, who donned 85 in his lone season in GB.

[run pMc]

lol.

I would think 17 has surpassed 87 as the Polar Bear’s best WR draft pick. But 87 has a ring, so you might be right.

85 was pretty good, too. Taking about Greg Jennings, not Terrence Murphy, who donned 85 in his lone season in GB.

17 > 87 > 85, although APB is right that Jennings was pretty darn good and picked over everyone's darling: Chad Jackson.
I get some of hate aimed at GJ, but I always thought it a bit much -- he was a borderline Pro Bowl WR most seasons, which is pretty good. (He made the PB twice)
His performance during the 2010 season was damn good, and he was the WR1. Watch him during the playoff run in 2010; they had nobody who could play like that on the roster last year. Rodgers even threw to him in the middle of the field lol

Murphy was a shame. Everybody thought he looked very promising to have a long productive career.

[run pMc]

I traded our 3rd round pick for a later 3rd Rd and 4th Rd. Traded the new 4th Rd for the later 4th, 5th, 6th & 7th.

I figure we have to dump $20,000,000 in salary cap by the start of the year. There are going to be a bunch of roster spots for rookies or league minimum vets to keep us under the cap this year no matter what we do with Arod.

PFF and the Consensus Board have mock simulators too. Not sure if Draft Network's is running yet. They're all a little wacky and the rankings keep changing for players. I think that will be the case until a week or two after the combine.

GB currently has picks at 15 (R1), 45 (R2), 78 (R3), 113 (R4), 146 (R5), and three in R7 at 201, 210, 216. IIRC they have something like 11 roster spots open based on who is under contract, so it's possible they trade back but probably not much. Gute's tendency to keep all his draft pick rookies (e.g., Ford, Walker, Toure, Carpenter this year) tells me all his picks are making the roster barring criminal idiocy or player incompetence.

[Joemailman]

PFF and the Consensus Board have mock simulators too. Not sure if Draft Network's is running yet. They're all a little wacky and the rankings keep changing for players. I think that will be the case until a week or two after the combine.

GB currently has picks at 15 (R1), 45 (R2), 78 (R3), 113 (R4), 146 (R5), and three in R7 at 201, 210, 216. IIRC they have something like 11 roster spots open based on who is under contract, so it's possible they trade back but probably not much. Gute's tendency to keep all his draft pick rookies (e.g., Ford, Walker, Toure, Carpenter this year) tells me all his picks are making the roster barring criminal idiocy or player incompetence.

They're widely expected to get a 5th round comp pick for MVS. Some also think they'll get 2 7th round comp picks for Oren Burks and Chandon Sullivan. Not sure what Gute will do with 5 7th round picks. Maybe trade up but I don't think 7th round picks have much trade value.

[bobblehead]

If we trade rodgers and begin a rebuild we meed all those 7ths to round out the roster while we fix the cap.

[SudsMcBucky]

They're widely expected to get a 5th round comp pick for MVS. Some also think they'll get 2 7th round comp picks for Oren Burks and Chandon Sullivan. Not sure what Gute will do with 5 7th round picks. Maybe trade up but I don't think 7th round picks have much trade value.

We could draft 7 Brock Purdys.

[run pMc]

Those R7's are project players and ST depth guys they want to take a flier on and get them under contract vs. risk a UDFA bidding war.
R7 picks generally don't have a lot of trade value, but you could package one with a R5 to move up higher in R5 if there's somebody falling down the board.

TT would be jealous of Gute having so many R7 picks. I sometimes wondered if he would trade down enough times to have all the R7 picks. Can't hit a HR without taking swings at the plate, and R7's are relatively cheap 4-year contracts.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Keep them coming Harvey, they were admittedly his highlights but they showed good instincts and tackling ability, things Savage lacks.

My guy getting some publicity.

Unpacking Future Packers: No. 79, Oklahoma State S Jason Taylor II (https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2023/02/07/unpacking-future-packers-no-79-oklahoma-state-s-jason-taylor-ii/)

[run pMc]

My guy getting some publicity.

Unpacking Future Packers: No. 79, Oklahoma State S Jason Taylor II (https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2023/02/07/unpacking-future-packers-no-79-oklahoma-state-s-jason-taylor-ii/)

OK Harv, starting to really like this guy. I like that he's reliable and can play ST. Decent size, long arms, speed seems good enough, not sure about single-high but if his instincts are good you can get by. They will need replacements at one if not both starting safety spots so he could compete there by mid-season.

[Joemailman]

Sounds like a very instinctive player. I've seen some sites though that have him rated so low that it would be doubtful he'd be drafted. Knock seems to be lack of coverage range. Did he light it up at the Senior Bowl? Was he invited to the combine?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Sounds like a very instinctive player. I've seen some sites though that have him rated so low that it would be doubtful he'd be drafted. Knock seems to be lack of coverage range. Did he light it up at the Senior Bowl? Was he invited to the combine?

That will probably change. The fact he ended up getting a late Senior Bowl invite and a scouting combine invite bodes well for him getting drafted. I think if he tests relatively well, he'll get drafted.

[run pMc]

I know in the past we've done the thread about players we most do NOT want in R1, and I said Rashan Gary, and then the following year I said Jordan Love. After that I stopped posting about such players.

This year I will say it's Anthony Richardson, but I feel safe in saying that because I highly, highly doubt they would draft him. Great athlete, has tools to work with, but that dude can barely play QB properly on the college level, he is light years away from playing pro QB. Was the same deal with the Liberty kid last year (Malik Willis?), those guys are major projects and too risky to spend high draft capital on.

EDIT: I didn't want Gary because he seemed too boom/bust for me. I've since admitted I was wrong about Gary and have happily eaten crow on that one.

[RashanGary]

I liked the Jace Stergberger pick when it happened. But shortly after he was drafted I had him followed on Twitter and he was doing all of these male modeling photos where he would strike a pose and dress cool. It was concerning. I hope we don’t draft any instagram models this year.

[Fritz]

I liked the Jace Stergberger pick when it happened. But shortly after he was drafted I had him followed on Twitter and he was doing all of these male modeling photos where he would strike a pose and dress cool. It was concerning. I hope we don’t draft any instagram models this year.

Sound scouting advice.

[Joemailman]

So avoid guys from Tommy Hilfiger U. Got it.

[Fritz]

But scour the Colorado School of Mimes. Or Mines.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm pretty sure my sleeper at WR is going to be Grant DuBose of Charlotte. I thought he looked pretty good at the Senior Bowl. I only found one video of him, but it was a good one. He's 6'2" 204 with 6'5 1/2" wingspan, he's athletic, and he shows a little bit of everything in that game. Another one that I'll be watching at the scouting combine. If he tests well (at that size), I think he'll move up boards. I think he's going to test well. He seems like a good kid too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfz67NP-JjA

[bobblehead]

I know in the past we've done the thread about players we most do NOT want in R1, and I said Rashan Gary, and then the following year I said Jordan Love. After that I stopped posting about such players.

This year I will say it's Anthony Richardson, but I feel safe in saying that because I highly, highly doubt they would draft him. Great athlete, has tools to work with, but that dude can barely play QB properly on the college level, he is light years away from playing pro QB. Was the same deal with the Liberty kid last year (Malik Willis?), those guys are major projects and too risky to spend high draft capital on.

EDIT: I didn't want Gary because he seemed too boom/bust for me. I've since admitted I was wrong about Gary and have happily eaten crow on that one.

But we like to sit rookie QBs for 3 years anyway, so he would be a perfect Packer pick right? I kid....I hope.

[run pMc]

But we like to sit rookie QBs for 3 years anyway, so he would be a perfect Packer pick right? I kid....I hope.

LOL
I'm ok with sitting a QB and letting them learn from a vet. Few rookies are ready to play, and play well. I think the bust rate on QBs would be lower if they had more time to develop and get mentored in the pro game before being thrown in but that's the nature of the NFL.
3 years is a long time to watch and learn, though.

[call_me_ishmael]

But we like to sit rookie QBs for 3 years anyway, so he would be a perfect Packer pick right? I kid....I hope.

If Rodgers is back don't be surprised if they take Hendon Henderson in the second round and let him ride pine for 2 years and takes over when Rodgers rides into the sunset.

[HarveyWallbangers]

For those that are interested, I subscribed to Caddy's Cutups on Patreon this year. He uploads All-22 film of the prospects. It only costs $3/month. (You can get cutups for this year prospects only for $2/month.) It's been a great help.

[call_me_ishmael]

Harv what do you believe the Packers biggest holes are?

[ThunderDan]

Packers biggest holes:
S, TE, DL, OL, WR (with promise that this is trending up depending on 2nd seasons from Watson, Dobbs and Tourre), CB (based on Stokes' knee)

[Joemailman]

I think Edge is a huge hole. Gary probably won't be back until sometime in October. So you've got Preston Smith, a promising guy in Enagbare, and not much else. You need at least 3 good ones or your starters will become fatigued from having to play too many snaps.

[texaspackerbacker]

Yeah, Edge is the most likely First Round pick, regardless of Gary's situation. After that, nothing is really urgent, but Safety, TE, maybe another Edge would be good to get as well as a Kicker. Also, if there's a possible Love trade or heaven forbid, the GOAT himself, we could use a late round backup QB. We almost always take O Line help, D Line help, a WR and a Corner toward the end of the draft.

[Fritz]

We always seem to need defense first, even though we've spent a large number of resources drafting on the defensive side of the ball.

[Bretsky]

I would love to see GB draft a WR/TE in the first two rounds and then they can binge draft defense if they want.

Of course most likely they'll go defense in round one like they have the past 25 drafts...lol

[jklowan]

I think the most pressing needs are in order Safety (we need 2) TE (we need 2), DL (we need 2 or 3), Edge, OT, then luxury picks are WR, LB, CB. i would prefer 1 DL and a WR free agent with some experience and the rest in the draft.

My guess is Safety or TE in the 1st, only thing that could change it is an OT or Edge falling into our laps.

[bobblehead]

Rookie TEs are not impactful. I think signing one of the many good FAs this offseason along with drafting one in round 3 (its a deep TE draft) would be a good combination. In the first round lets go with the one freakish safety or one of the several good front line guys at either edge or DT. The team is lucky that this draft lines up well with team needs. Maybe not as much at safety as there may only be one worthy of a first, but its very deep at TE and DL. WR is first round light, but day 2 strong.

[Joemailman]

I want the Packers to draft Northwestern DL Adetomiwa Adebawore just to hear announcers stumble over his name. He's actually quite good but small.

[run pMc]

I want the Packers to draft Northwestern DL Adetomiwa Adebawore just to hear announcers stumble over his name. He's actually quite good but small.

Or Pittsburgh RB Israel Abanikanda. Dude wouldn't be a bad Day 3 protege for Aaron Jones.
(I like Tyjae Spears better, but his name is easier to say.)

[Deputy Nutz]

I think Edge is a huge hole. Gary probably won't be back until sometime in October. So you've got Preston Smith, a promising guy in Enagbare, and not much else. You need at least 3 good ones or your starters will become fatigued from having to play too many snaps.

He is already working out with pass rush guru Coach Brandon Jordan. Should be ready to go by the start of the season.

[Deputy Nutz]

The Packers have needs, but they are also in a position to take best player available. I would roll my eyes if they took a running back, but they need help and significant depth it seems at every position. If one of the top 3 offensive tackles drop to the Packers would any of you go ballistic? Even an interior guy. The Packers had a lack of significant talent along their offensive line as the season came to a close. Their right side was bad. Their Linebacker situation is not completely resolved they could definitely get more instinctive and athletic there. Defensive line we all know that Kenny Clark played way to many snaps last year and didn't play consistent enough, the Packers could add a top end guy to the rotation there. Safety is a black hole for the Packers. Don't like what they have there and I haven't liked it for a while. TE and receiver still need young depth, and guys that can compete. Drafting those guys even at the top end of the draft takes time to develop so don't get pissed if they draft a TE and it take 10-12 weeks before they show their abilities. Having to learn both blocking schemes and route schemes isn't exactly the easiest way to spend your time in mini camp.

[run pMc]

Packers have needs all over. Best player available.

I would not go ballistic if they picked a top OT, I'd be a little surprised since they have like 11 OL under contract currently. If a good one dropped to them it would make sense though -- they will need clarity at both T spots long term. A blue chip T prospect could make it easier to move on from Bakhtiari without having to move Jenkins, or move on from Njiman without worrying if Tom or Caleb Jones can play there. (Tom probably can.)

FWIW I think they go EDGE or DL in R1. The WR group is meh for top talent, and the TE group is deep. Precedent has shown you can find good TEs throughout the draft, you don't need to pick one early. I'd expect them to load up on big guys early and skill players and special teamers late.

They have a few candidates at safety on the roster, none of them look especially ready to step in immediately. Carpenter, Abernathy, Gaines... they're ST players and I think they need help there.
I don't expect Gute to trade up much if at all, the roster has some holes and the draft is a good, cheap way to fill them.

[RashanGary]

Packers have needs all over. Best player available.

I would not go ballistic if they picked a top OT, I'd be a little surprised since they have like 11 OL under contract currently. If a good one dropped to them it would make sense though -- they will need clarity at both T spots long term. A blue chip T prospect could make it easier to move on from Bakhtiari without having to move Jenkins, or move on from Njiman without worrying if Tom or Caleb Jones can play there. (Tom probably can.)

FWIW I think they go EDGE or DL in R1. The WR group is meh for top talent, and the TE group is deep. Precedent has shown you can find good TEs throughout the draft, you don't need to pick one early. I'd expect them to load up on big guys early and skill players and special teamers late.

They have a few candidates at safety on the roster, none of them look especially ready to step in immediately. Carpenter, Abernathy, Gaines... they're ST players and I think they need help there.
I don't expect Gute to trade up much if at all, the roster has some holes and the draft is a good, cheap way to fill them.


I like big guys early and skill guys late. It’s a lot harder to find a tackle, DL or edge after round 1 or maybe 2. It’s much easiest to pluck skill guys later.

[texaspackerbacker]

Needs all over? Or needs pretty much nowhere? We could use a superstar or high quality upgrade just about all over, but need? Not really. We have good enough quality to win a LOT of games and go a long way with pretty much what we have plus Aaron Rodgers returning to normalcy. I would define need as a position where somebody who is drafted basically comes in as the first stringer - his position to lose. Walker was pretty much that last year. Other than probably Kicker, we really don't have that situation at any position this year. Safety would be that if they let Amos go, but I doubt they do.

I'd go with Edge Rusher in the first round unless some obvious BPA falls to us.

[run pMc]

Needs all over? Or needs pretty much nowhere? We could use a superstar or high quality upgrade just about all over, but need? Not really. We have good enough quality to win a LOT of games and go a long way with pretty much what we have plus Aaron Rodgers returning to normalcy. I would define need as a position where somebody who is drafted basically comes in as the first stringer - his position to lose. Walker was pretty much that last year. Other than probably Kicker, we really don't have that situation at any position this year. Safety would be that if they let Amos go, but I doubt they do.

I'd go with Edge Rusher in the first round unless some obvious BPA falls to us.

Amos is probably gone, Savage is not the answer. They were trying Rudy Ford and Innis Gaines at safety. Safety would be a need.
They have one TE under contract. Big Dog and Tonyan might not be back, it's debatable if they should be brought back. TE is a need.
Rashan Gary is out until October. GB doesn't bring guys back from ACLs earlier than 10 months, and you can be sure the recent rust Jenkins and Tonyan (and Bakh's lengthy, rocky recovery) will ensure they don't rush him back. That leaves you thin at EDGE with Preston, Enagbare and Garvin. If they draft an EDGE in R1, they will push him into the lineup. There is a need by your definition.
You could argue WR is a need by your definition, I'm not convinced they roll out Watson, Doubs and Toure (or Melton) in 11 personnel in Game 1.

Free Agency/cap space will actually drive their needs. If they don't bring in a cheap vet at TE or DL, they will draft one and have to give them a chunk of snaps. Maybe those aren't first stringer, but they will need to draft players who can play significant snaps.

Another way to look at needs is one season down the road. This is AJ Dillon's final year, do you want to keep him? Can you afford him? What if this is Bahktiari's last year? Who's the backup if Rodgers comes back and Love demands a trade, and then Rodgers gets hurt? You generally would prefer to keep your own players but you can't afford to keep all the good ones. If you have drafted players in the pipeline ready to step in, that saves you cap space, and it's a lot better than throwing a rookie out there to struggle through a full season of snaps. Rodgers wouldn't be who he is if they threw him on the field as a rookie.

[texaspackerbacker]

A lot of probablys and might bes in there hahahaha. I did say, Safety would be a need if ..... the difference is, I think the "probably" side is keeping Amos, not letting him go. Ditto that for Tonyan. I'd almost bet that the Packers have more faith in his returning to form than any other team does. Lewis not being under contract is the same as the situation the past couple of years. I'd bet also that he comes back. Deguara is the one under contract, and whatever about the 4th TE. He probably gets replaced by a mid to late rounder. Ford and a couple of those young Safetys looked decent last preseason also. And for some reason, they I kinda doubt they give up on Savage - the staff apparently isn't as negative about him as a lot of fans.

I really don't think we need an O Lineman except maybe at the bottom end of the draft. D Line too, the way the Packers/Barry play defense, isn't a very high priority. I guess we agree that Edge is the best bet in Round One. But I'm not as sure as you seem to be that Gary is out 'til Octorber. And having a First rounder in a 4 man rotation for two spot isn't quite the same as making him an instant starter. I actually do think they start Watsonand Doubs in Game One with Toure getting PT also (who is "Melton"?). And you didn't mention Lazard, who I still think is 60/40 to be a Packer or Cobb, who as a vet minimum 5th or 6th WR is probably better than most alternatives.

You mention Dillon the following year; I've never had the highest opinion of Dillon, but who knows whether he will be a priority a year from now or not. Myself, I like Patrick Taylor just about as much, also that PS guy from Iowa. Undoubtedly we draft a RB late, though. I also said in one of those posts, we probably need a backup QB.

[run pMc]

What is the argument for keeping Amos? He looked slow, missed tackles, and clearly didn't play as well as he had earlier in his career. Good guy, but what is the argument for keeping a 30 year old safety who showed a big decline in his play? Rudy Ford is a free agent who might not be back, Abernathy was a XFL guy, Gaines has been mostly on IR. Are you sure you want them as your 17 game starters?
Savage is on his 5th year option which is fully guaranteed at about $7-8M. He'll get another chance to play a safety but he could be back in the slot like he was at end of year. Those castoffs were replacing him at safety. That does not sound like an ideal situation to me, and if you can resolve it via draft you do so. You can bet GB would rather have Savage's cap space than a guy who can't beat out UDFAs.

Lazard is thought to be looking for DJ Chark money (10-11M per year). I don't think they have the cap space for that. Not when they still have to get under the cap as it is.

There are a number of what-if's, but as a GM you would be grossly negligent -- risk management is a part of a leader's job -- to not account for some roster depth risk issues. That's what you need backups for.
As a supposed "draft and develop" team the idea is to draft a year before you need to play them.

I like Taylor/Goodson and they are decent RB3 but I don't know if they are going to be your RB1 or 2. If a team thought much of them they could've been plucked off GB's PS. They will need to start looking for the next Aaron Jones this year or next, and if Dillon is gone they won't have a lot at RB in 2 years.

[texaspackerbacker]

What Lazard is looking for and what he's likely to get probably are several million apart. If he can soak some team for that much, more power to him. I put it at 70/30 that they sign Savage for 3-4 years at $7-8 per - back loaded/cap friendly. I put it at about 100% that detractor fans raise holy hell about it hahahaha. R. Ford shouldn't be any more expensive than last season. I liked Abernathy. Gaines ain't much, but the fact that he stuck around makes him a possibility. I'd take a Safety in the 2nd - 4th round depending on who's available. A new DB coach and ideally, a new DC might do wonders for Savage also.

I won't call Dillon a "plodder", cuz the last time I did, somebody brought up his 40 speed which was more impressive than his game speed looks like. However, I'd rather have a speedier/shiftier/more Jones or Goodson-like RB any day, and P. Taylor on hand for special teams and short yardage.

Whatshisname, Snoop Dog's nephew wasn't on the FA list; Can we assume he's still under contract, Joe?

[call_me_ishmael]

Man Dillon is so much like that old thick boy tight end that had cement shoes and went down when lightly bumped. Same guy 2.0. Maybe Dillon can catch a big Hail Mary too.

[run pMc]

Whatshisname, Snoop Dog's nephew wasn't on the FA list; Can we assume he's still under contract, Joe?

Nixon is a FA. He'll cost money to keep. An above average returner who can give you some decent play at slot corner has value.
I wouldn't want Savage at $7-8M per for 3-4 years. Way too steep for his production, especially given some of the safeties coming out this year and next. He's physically talented, but hasn't put it together. If you haven't done it after 4 years, you probably aren't.

I see GB is talking with Lazard, but nothing significant and he's going to test the market. I think he'll get some interest, and I could see a team talking themselves into overpaying him. That's how FA works. I'm not sure what he's worth, he's a good WR3 and big slot guy who can block. I could see a team with cap space like CHI throwing him an MVS type of deal for 3/30 or more. GB would be hard pressed to match that. Frankly, I'm not sure I'd want them to. They can probably get Robert Woods for a quarter of that; he knows MLF and can block.
I love Lazard but tbh if your most significant contribution at WR is your reputation for blocking, maybe you're not that great of a WR.

[run pMc]

Man Dillon is so much like that old thick boy tight end that had cement shoes and went down when lightly bumped. Same guy 2.0. Maybe Dillon can catch a big Hail Mary too.
Dick Rod.
Tonyan is slowly turning into him, I fear. No ability to RAC, but if he gets open he'll catch it.

IMO Dillon didn't run the same last year as the year before. Seemed like he was easier to tackle. He got a little better late so maybe there's hope, but for a big fast guy he doesn't often run like it.
I still think he's a good RB2, I'm not sure they've used him correctly or put him in the best spots to succeed -- especially this last year, where he was getting RPO handoffs from shotgun. That's not his best setup. I think you want to hand off to him with QB under center and let him get a little bit of build up speed so when he get to the line he's knocking guys back or hitting the hole fast enough to cause problems for the back 7 of a defense.

[Joemailman]

Dick Rod.
Tonyan is slowly turning into him, I fear. No ability to RAC, but if he gets open he'll catch it.

IMO Dillon didn't run the same last year as the year before. Seemed like he was easier to tackle. He got a little better late so maybe there's hope, but for a big fast guy he doesn't often run like it.
I still think he's a good RB2, I'm not sure they've used him correctly or put him in the best spots to succeed -- especially this last year, where he was getting RPO handoffs from shotgun. That's not his best setup. I think you want to hand off to him with QB under center and let him get a little bit of build up speed so when he get to the line he's knocking guys back or hitting the hole fast enough to cause problems for the back 7 of a defense.

Dillon had 6 broken tackles last year compared to 17 the year before. For much of the year I thought he was trying too much to make tacklers miss instead of just using his power to go through them. As you say, he did get much better late in the year. I wonder if he looked at some 2021 film during the bye week and saw what he needs to be.

I thought Tonyan was running better the last 3 weeks or so of the season. I think he's worth bringing back one more time to see if he can approach his 2020 form.

[Deputy Nutz]

Needs all over? Or needs pretty much nowhere? We could use a superstar or high quality upgrade just about all over, but need? Not really. We have good enough quality to win a LOT of games and go a long way with pretty much what we have plus Aaron Rodgers returning to normalcy. I would define need as a position where somebody who is drafted basically comes in as the first stringer - his position to lose. Walker was pretty much that last year. Other than probably Kicker, we really don't have that situation at any position this year. Safety would be that if they let Amos go, but I doubt they do.

I'd go with Edge Rusher in the first round unless some obvious BPA falls to us.

Yeah, needs all over. They don't have a roster to compete to win a Super Bowl.
QB - Need a back
RB - Not a need but a 3rd back is needed
TE - Tonyan is a nice option, I like him but he isn't top tier TE and he is a free agent
OL - Lots of depth and from LT, LG, C you might not find a better ratio of talent, but injuries haven't been kind to them. Right side was horrible towards the end of the season
WR - So young, only gonna add another young player, but certainly a need there

DT - Clark is a stud, too many plays. Wyatt is young and looks the part towards the end of the year. Where is the depth? They Need a 3rd guy!
OLB/Edge - Smith makes a lot of money, Gary should be 100% come the start of the season and Engabare may continue to improve into a really nice guy. They could make a splash because they cut Smith, but I would say a less of a need than other positions but you can't move on from Smith if you don't take a high end guy in the draft
LB - Walker is athletic but has to improve his fundamentals, controlling his emotions, and technique/reads for him to be really good. Campbell seems not athletic enough to be considered in the nickel package.
CB - Alexander is a top 3 guy in the NFL, Stokes was having a down year before he got hurt. the lighting in the bottle may be gone when talking about Rasul Douglas. I don't like his lack of top end speed and guess work. Need a legit nickel or #3 corner.
Safety - Huge need Amos is a liability in coverage to much of a swing and miss guy in open field tackling. Savage is flawed in his understanding of playing scheme football. He might find life as a nickel but the Packers desperately need impact players at safety.
Kicker - They need one.

[texaspackerbacker]

A roster good enough to win 13 or 14 in the regular season - that's what I'm after, Super Bowl be damned, unless we happen to luck into getting there.

QB - agree, a backup
RB - disagree, P. Taylor, Goodson, and whoever else are plenty good enough
TE - Tonyan used to be "top tier" and 50% chance he is again and stronger chance he stays a Packer, but yes, draft a TE maybe 3rd or 4th round to replace Tyler Davis.
OL - no need - we've got plenty, and it's a low priority position IMO. Draft no higher than 7th.
WR - agree except maybe 7th round or so
OLB/Edge - my choice for first rounder even though I agree, Gary is probably 100% or close by the start and Engabare is damn good. I don't think they cut P. Smith ...... but mostly by default, I'd go Edge.
DT - We do have pretty good depth there too. Draft one, but no higher than 4th.
ILB - Walker should be very good, maybe great. Campbell is a mystery - I don't see a reason he shouldn't return to '20 form. We could maybe use a backup if we don't keep Barnes, but they aren't that hard to find and we do have a couple of others.
Corner - Maybe if a good one is available, but probably not. We have the 3 excellent ones for the two outside spots, and between one of them, Nixon, Savage, and a new DB coach, we should have the slot covered.
Safety - I don't see Amos as a liability. I think the problem was scheme and coaching. And strong chance IMO we keep Amos. Between Savage, R. Ford, the PS guys, and (maybe most important) new DB coaching, I don't see much of an actual need. But I'd still draft a Safety maybe 2nd or 3rd.
Kicker - agree, for sure

[run pMc]

With the exception of QB and OL, very few players continue to play well past age 30 or 31. If a player starts to drop off around that age, they are unlikely to bounce back.
Amos and Devondre fall into that category, as do Reed and Lowry.

You also have to assume a player who has one outlier great year is unlikely to repeat it. Rasul and Devondre fall into the category, although I'd argue Rasul was solid enough last year.
Not saying Rasul or Devondre are bad players, but I think you can't expect more than average or slightly better play from them for more than 1-2 more years. Turnover in best-CB changes especially fast. Jalen Ramsey is still good but he was old news at 28. It's just the facts of aging and athleticism, and why you have to constantly have young cheap talent on the roster.

If Amos is back I will be surprised. I do think they can find decent safeties on Day 2 or 3 who will be an upgrade over Amos/Savage/Ford. Rudy Ford might be ok, he was a big reason they beat DAL but he also got benched for a while last year. I'm sure they are nice guys, but this is not an above-average or even league average performing group. Amos and Savage ranked 81st and 87th out of 88 safeties graded by PFF.

Tonyan might bounce back from injury, but I don't think he's more than a TE2 at best. They will need to draft and develop at least one if not two TE.

I am far less optimistic than some here re: safety and w/r/t Rashan Gary. I think he'll be back and play ok 2nd half of the season, but it will be the following year that he really bounces back. At that point he'll be on a new contract, hopefully with GB. Until then (i.e. the first 4-6 games minimum) they absolutely need more pass rush help. They have very thin depth until Gary is back.
They don't have much at DL either, with Clark, Slaton and Wyatt. One injury there and they're stuck trotting out a player who couldn't even make the active gameday roster ONCE last year in J.Ford. If they don't bring Reed or Lowry back (I'd prefer Reed) they will have to draft a DL. Clark needs help on the line, he draws double teams constantly and having someone else who can pass-rush would improve the defense considerably. They were abysmal against the run and have been for some time. You can put that on scheme, but allowing 5.0 ypc is not winning defense and I doubt any DC would actually be ok with that stat.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Dick Rod.
Tonyan is slowly turning into him, I fear. No ability to RAC, but if he gets open he'll catch it.

IMO Dillon didn't run the same last year as the year before. Seemed like he was easier to tackle. He got a little better late so maybe there's hope, but for a big fast guy he doesn't often run like it.
I still think he's a good RB2, I'm not sure they've used him correctly or put him in the best spots to succeed -- especially this last year, where he was getting RPO handoffs from shotgun. That's not his best setup. I think you want to hand off to him with QB under center and let him get a little bit of build up speed so when he get to the line he's knocking guys back or hitting the hole fast enough to cause problems for the back 7 of a defense.

I thought Tonyan looked better towards the end of the year. It takes some guys longer to fully recover. I'd give him one more, one year "prove it" deal.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Yeah, needs all over. They don't have a roster to compete to win a Super Bowl.
QB - Need a back
RB - Not a need but a 3rd back is needed
TE - Tonyan is a nice option, I like him but he isn't top tier TE and he is a free agent
OL - Lots of depth and from LT, LG, C you might not find a better ratio of talent, but injuries haven't been kind to them. Right side was horrible towards the end of the season
WR - So young, only gonna add another young player, but certainly a need there

DT - Clark is a stud, too many plays. Wyatt is young and looks the part towards the end of the year. Where is the depth? They Need a 3rd guy!
OLB/Edge - Smith makes a lot of money, Gary should be 100% come the start of the season and Engabare may continue to improve into a really nice guy. They could make a splash because they cut Smith, but I would say a less of a need than other positions but you can't move on from Smith if you don't take a high end guy in the draft
LB - Walker is athletic but has to improve his fundamentals, controlling his emotions, and technique/reads for him to be really good. Campbell seems not athletic enough to be considered in the nickel package.
CB - Alexander is a top 3 guy in the NFL, Stokes was having a down year before he got hurt. the lighting in the bottle may be gone when talking about Rasul Douglas. I don't like his lack of top end speed and guess work. Need a legit nickel or #3 corner.
Safety - Huge need Amos is a liability in coverage to much of a swing and miss guy in open field tackling. Savage is flawed in his understanding of playing scheme football. He might find life as a nickel but the Packers desperately need impact players at safety.
Kicker - They need one.

Fair.

TE - Deep draft. I like the thought of Musgrave or Kincaid in round 2 or LaPorta in round 3, if available.
WR - We almost have to bring in a vet. I like the idea of Robert Woods at the right price. Need another draft pick.
DT - Not a ton of size in this draft. Mazi Smith (great power/speed ratio, but motor runs cold), Keeanu Benton, Jaquelin Roy, Keondre Coburn, and Jerrod Clark seem like good fits.
EDGE - We need one. Fortunately, this is a great draft--especially for a team that likes big edges.
S - Amos really struggled the first half of last year, but I thought he got back to his old self in the second half. Could Rasul move to S?

[Joemailman]

Fair.

TE - Deep draft. I like the thought of Musgrave or Kincaid in round 2 or LaPorta in round 3, if available.
WR - We almost have to bring in a vet. I like the idea of Robert Woods at the right price. Need another draft pick.
DT - Not a ton of size in this draft. Mazi Smith (great power/speed ratio, but motor runs cold), Keeanu Benton, Jaquelin Roy, Keondre Coburn, and Jerrod Clark seem like good fits.
EDGE - We need one. Fortunately, this is a great draft--especially for a team that likes big edges.
S - Amos really struggled the first half of last year, but I thought he got back to his old self in the second half. Could Rasul move to S?

Have you looked at Keion White yet? Seems like a physical freak who needs work on technique. I've seen him rated anywhere from a top 10 to an early 2nd round pick. Started out at Old Dominion and transferred to Georgia Tech in 2021. Missed most of 2021 with an injury, so has only had really 1 year against top competition. Heard he had a great Senior Bowl Week.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Have you looked at Keion White yet? Seems like a physical freak who needs work on technique. I've seen him rated anywhere from a top 10 to an early 2nd round pick. Started out at Old Dominion and transferred to Georgia Tech in 2021. Missed most of 2021 with an injury, so has only had really 1 year against top competition. Heard he had a great Senior Bowl Week.

I've gotten through QB, RB, WR, and TE. I'm about 10 deep into OT.

From my evalution + just reading bios and some highlights, I'd give these grades for each position. This is just based on what the Packers like, and it's subject to change after I watch all of these guys. Scale 1-10.

QB 6
RB 7
WR 4
TE 9
OT 3
IOL 7
DT 5
EDGE 8
ILB 3
CB 9
S 3

[HarveyWallbangers]

I might be judging to positively because overall I think it's an average draft, but I think TE, IOL, EDGE, and CB are the strongest groups. WRs are small. ILB and S are weak.

[run pMc]

I might be judging to positively because overall I think it's an average draft, but I think TE, IOL, EDGE, and CB are the strongest groups. WRs are small. ILB and S are weak.

In terms of prospects, seems like TE, EDGE, CB and RB are above average but the others are generally ok. Last year's safety draft class was better.
Not impressed with WRs this year compared to the last few. I think they bring in a cheap vet and a Day 3 pick there.

[Joemailman]

Michael Mayer is the best overall TE in this class. But Dalton Kincaid is the best receiver among TE's.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gn3ZUdp5PKc

[call_me_ishmael]

I kind of like that little homie that's Greg Jennings from OSU. I have seen several clips over the last few days and dude just looks like a great route runner. I have a hunch he is gonna be a much better pro than collegee player, and he was pretty damn good in college when healthy.

[Deputy Nutz]

On Paper this draft talent sort of sucks, but games aren't won on paper.

[run pMc]

I've been on the Kincaid bandwagon for a while. I think he can do everything Tonyan can but faster, and break a tackle or two.
I haven't really seen Musgrave but he hasn't played a lot. Supposedly people love him and are expecting him to blow up at the combine.

the Greg Jennings from OSU is that Jaxon Smith-Obama kid or whatever. Not tiny at 6' 200, but seems like a natural fit in the slot and with Watson outside he would have a lot of room to operate. I suspect he's not as athletic as some WRs but he gets open and put up crazy numbers on a team with both Olave and Wilson. I don't think they even look at a WR until R4 this year. Getting an athletic TE might be a bigger priority and help their RZ woes.

[run pMc]

On Paper this draft talent sort of sucks, but games aren't won on paper.

It's not the deepest draft, that's for sure. I wouldn't be against them pulling a 2018 and trading down to pick up future picks. I think next year's draft will be better.
Either way, I think they can find a couple of decent players in areas of need (TE, S).

[Joemailman]

Combine schedule.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fp-hrIrXoAcLNGX?format=jpg&name=large

[texaspackerbacker]

Fair.

TE - Deep draft. I like the thought of Musgrave or Kincaid in round 2 or LaPorta in round 3, if available.
WR - We almost have to bring in a vet. I like the idea of Robert Woods at the right price. Need another draft pick.
DT - Not a ton of size in this draft. Mazi Smith (great power/speed ratio, but motor runs cold), Keeanu Benton, Jaquelin Roy, Keondre Coburn, and Jerrod Clark seem like good fits.
EDGE - We need one. Fortunately, this is a great draft--especially for a team that likes big edges.
S - Amos really struggled the first half of last year, but I thought he got back to his old self in the second half. Could Rasul move to S?

EDGE in the first round is what I want, and a not so big Edge guy would be better in the rotation anyway IMO.
Safety in round two probably; I've liked the idea of Rasul at Safety for a long time, and now without Gray as DB coach, maybe. And I think Amos stays, and I like the young guys on hand. But a S in the 2nd still makes sense.
TE about the 3rd, yes, and I like LaPorta. This too, though, is hardly a short term need.
DT: Clark, Wyatt, Slaton, Slayton, and Ford to me is plenty other than a late round or FA pickup.
WR: Watson, Doubs, Toure, Lazard (probably IMO), Cobb on vet minimum or near it contract - nothing except late round or FA needed there unless we lose Lazard. Getting a veteran like Woods fairly cheap couldn't hurt, though.

None of these IMO rise to the level of "need". Kicker we probably do need but that is a late round or FA thing. Ditto that for backup QB.

[run pMc]

Do not want a TE in R1. Musgrave or Kincaid in R2 would be fine, or LaPorta in R3-4. Tucker Kraft or Davis Allen are other options. Depending on if they bring Lewis/Tonyan back I could see them take two TEs in the draft and hope at least one of them sticks. TE is one of the positions you don't have to draft early to get a good/average one, and I like Mayer but think the positional value might not be there.

Safety - I think it depends on the scheme, people say Brian Branch and I like him but he looks like a star/slot guy and he wasn't even the full time safety. I like Jordan Battle better in a later round. Chris Smith from Georgia is a little small but he would be an upgrade from Rudy Ford, and even guys like Brandon Joseph or Jai'yir Brown could help them, especially if they are concerned with communication, lining guys up, and playing split zone coverages.

DT/EDGE - I think they look here early. Ford and Slayton are barely on the roster and not sure they should be. I like TJ Slaton but he's not a pass rusher. Wyatt hopefully gets stronger and plays more. How many DL will they rotate per game? They need 4 players here at least, possibly 5 to cover themselves in case of injury and not embarass themselves anymore than they did last year in run defense. Do they even use a 5-tech anymore, and if so who would that be? Edge is a need -- Preston is on the back side of 30 and he's fine but he's not a star or playmaker a DC is going to worry about. Enagbare is a solid depth guy and good #3, but you'll want to add someone here to improve the pass rush until Gary is back and even after that. If they don't take an edge early they will take one later as a developmental guy. Garvin is not a quality #3, he's ST fodder and emergency depth a la Tipa.

WR: they need one. Cobb is ancient, Lazard likely too pricey, and they will want to keep building the roster here as well as bringing in a veteran presence into the room. Wouldn't be shocked if they draft a speedy guy who can be a PR/KR if Nixon leaves in FA. If Watson is your only deep threat, this offense will struggle if/when he pulls a hammy or worse.

Most of the areas of need are where they have players they should replace because of performance, or where they lack depth. There aren't a ton of Day 1 starter spots, but that doesn't mean they aren't needs. One injury and the depth gets tested.

[texaspackerbacker]

It's a well known fact that D Linemen often take several years to get good. I'm confident that Wyatt is gonna reach at least Kenny Clark level. And Slaton is about as good as what a lot of teams have in the middle. I for one was impressed with Slayton last preseason - I'd have rather they kept him over Lowry. and Ford was good enough to keep and should be better this year. I say again, that's plenty except maybe a 7th rounder or UDFA.

I guess we are in agreement about an EDGE early, I would say first round kinda by default - no other particular need. If they didn't think P. Smith could still play, they'd have cut him instead of restructuring. Gary will be back, I say sooner rather than later. Engabare looked damn good. Garvin and Tipa and Hollins are adequate as the 4th, 5th, and 6th, but yes, move 'em all down a notch and get a first rounder for the rotation.

I have to admit, I'm not up to speed on who's available in the draft of Safetys, and I guess I would pick one in the 2nd or 3rd. But as I have said, I really don't see much immediate need there either. I expect Amos back. I also expect Nixon and Ford back (no politics intended hahahaha). I could see Savage in the Slot and Douglas at Safety maybe. And I have a better opinion of the young PS guys than some do. I don't know how much of the DB problems were on Gray and how much were on Barry, but I'm hopeful things get better with the new guy.

WR, I'd bet money (although not a whole lot) that Lazard is back and that Cobb stays at a greatly reduced price (BTW, I wonder if that $6m cap plus figure still reflects about $7 million or whatever for Cobb). "Ancient" Cobb is better IMO than what most teams have as their 5th or 6th WR. If I'm wrong about Lazard, we could use somebody in maybe the 4th round, but I doubt I'm wrong. I don't see them paying $3-5 million for a guy like Woods or whoever when they could just as well overpay Lazard by several million if need be. If Nixon comes back, as he probably will, he said he wants to have a try at WR too. I agree, though, a speed guy/returner in the 5th to 7th round would be a good idea.

I guess you have a different idea than I do about "needs". I don't think a rotational player/3rd guy when two are starters is a "need" for example. And I don't think a guy who probably would start in a year or two is considered a "need" either.

[run pMc]

Still don't know what the justification for bringing Amos back is. If they wanted to extend him they could have, instead they did a restructure and let his contract expire with a lot of dead void year money. That tells me they don't want him back unless he's dirt cheap, and he won't be. Someone else will take a 1-2 year flier on him and I wish him luck. Really was a solid if slightly underrated FA signing before the wheels came off last year.

Cobb as your WR5 or 6 is ok as long as you have others playing a lot of ST, and he's getting maybe 8-10 snaps a game. If Rodgers comes back I could see an argument for bringing him back as your lone old vet in the WR room, but you don't really want him playing a lot. He can't run anymore and hasn't been able to stay healthy for years. Nobody else is going to sign him.

Johnathon Ford did not have inspiring college tape, and made the roster simply on the basis of being a draft pick. He never played, not even on goal line or short yardage situations, which is where you'd think a 340 pound DL would like up. Like Clark and Slaton, he plays the NT. I don't know what you do with him, but I don't think he sticks. Slayton is an interesting if older player who has bounced around a few teams. They went into games last year thin at DL rather than bring up Slayton or activate Ford. I am skeptical either will amount to much. If a guy like Breese is there at 15 and his medicals check out I wouldn't be unhappy if they take him. I do think outside of Jalen Carter there isn't a lot of R1 DL, but I could easily see them look at one in mid or late rounds. I have optimism for Wyatt but he was very inconsistent. I don't think he'll be as good as Clark but still pretty good. Point is, I think they need another body here who can play. Maybe that ends up being a cheap vet FA signing.

Starting to wonder if they take an OL in R1. Not a huge fan of it, but at this point little they do would shock me. Not convinced they have their 2024 tackle tandem on the roster. They had some issues in the interiior OL last year, that's an area they might look to improve as well, but not in R1.

[texaspackerbacker]

What that tells me about Amos is that they maybe couldn't come to an agreement on an extension but probably are still trying/negotiating.

Cobb is also insurance as a returner - not as much speed as you'd like, but at least surehanded and smart.

I didn't see J. Ford's college tape, but the fact they kept him around must mean somebody has hope for him. He couldn't line up for short yardage if he wasn't active for a game. We'll see, I guess. Maybe he just gets cut early. maybe not. Anyway, there seemingly are 5 or so ahead of him right now.

I REALLY hope they don't go O Line in the first round. In addition to what I think of the priority of O Line in general, there's the factor that highly picked O Linemen so often don't pan out, not just for the Packers. Plus, we've got tons of them right now (literally hahahaha).

I don't start getting excited about individual players until after the Packers draft them, given so so many that are talked about and we don't draft them. The way I see it, you just have to trust the staff and hope for the best/analyze after the draft/gripe as needed.

[call_me_ishmael]

Daniel Jeremiah hyping up my sleeper Hendon Henderson.

https://twitter.com/PatMcAfeeShow/status/1630644258897293314

[Joemailman]

Jalen Carter was seen as a possible 1st overall pick.



Ari Meirov
@MySportsUpdate

An arrest warrant has been issued for Georgia DT and potential No. 1 pick Jalen Carter for Reckless Driving and Racing. Stems from the January 15th crash that took the life of a teammate and staffer.

Carter is on the schedule to speak at the NFL Combine at 10:30 ET.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqJK_o6WcAAr9e-?format=jpg&name=large

[Fritz]

Jalen Carter was seen as a possible 1st overall pick.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqJK_o6WcAAr9e-?format=jpg&name=large



The next Warren Sapp?

[jklowan]

Maybe he falls, I would still take him.

[texaspackerbacker]

Me too, probably.

2 factors here, though: 1. is he gonna be locked up for a few years? That would seem very possible. 2. Is he generally a decent guy? Or an overall bad character type? We have several Georgia guys who could weigh in on it.

I very much doubt be does fall to the Packers, though, unless he really would be facing years in prison.

[Fritz]

If he's "only" going to prison for a year or so, you could just consider that a redshirt year. I'm sure he'd be working out contantly in prison, and probably learning some new moves, too.

[SudsMcBucky]

Me too, probably.

2 factors here, though: 1. is he gonna be locked up for a few years? That would seem very possible. 2. Is he generally a decent guy? Or an overall bad character type? We have several Georgia guys who could weigh in on it.

I very much doubt be does fall to the Packers, though, unless he really would be facing years in prison.

Gotta be honest. Unless something comes out that the police haven't told us yet, he isn't spending 1 day in prison. Now, if it comes to light that he did something like actually running the other car off the road, then that will change things. Right now, he was booked on just 2 misdemeanors.

[call_me_ishmael]

Some seriously talented edge and DL players at the combine OMG

[Fritz]

Some seriously talented edge and DL players at the combine OMG

Build from the lines out. That's the old school idea.

[call_me_ishmael]

https://twitter.com/Peter_Bukowski/status/1631686787679567877

[Fritz]

God I'm getting old.

Who is Peter Bukkake? Who is Jaxson Smith-Njigba? Who is Garrett Wilson?

Why is someone commenting on something someone said about a player two years ago?

[jklowan]

Another early Mock, think I would be pretty happy with this draft haul.....

15 Lukas Van Ness - Edge
45 Chris Smith II - S
78 Blake Freeland - OT
116 Colby Wooden - DL
151 Mekhi Garner - CB
234 Brandon Hill - S
237 Dontay Demus Jr - WR

[Joemailman]

God I'm getting old.

Who is Peter Bukkake? Who is Jaxson Smith-Njigba? Who is Garrett Wilson?

Why is someone commenting on something someone said about a player two years ago?

Garrett Wilson is a Jets WR who was offensive rookie of the year this past season. He's from Ohio St. He and Jaxson Smith-Njigba, who is a WR likely to be drafted in the 1st round, would have been college teammates in 2020-21.

[Fritz]

Garrett Wilson is a Jets WR who was offensive rookie of the year this past season. He's from Ohio St. He and Jaxson Smith-Njigba, who is a WR likely to be drafted in the 1st round, would have been college teammates in 2020-21.

Ah. Thank you.

[Joemailman]

Brian Branch ran a 4.58. Not good for a 190 lb. DB. A lot of edge rushers ran faster than that.

[Fritz]

Brian Branch ran a 4.58. Not good for a 190 lb. DB. A lot of edge rushers ran faster than that.

I've made clear I don't follow this stuff like I used to, so my observations are pretty half-ass. So here's another half-ass observation: based on what I've read about Branch so far, he's really not that exciting of a prospect. I'm struggling to figure out how he could be a first round pick, based on what I've read so far.

[Joemailman]

Lukas Van Ness should be considered a real favorite for Packers pick at #15. Vertical jump only weak spot.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqQcIFJWYAENBK2.jpg:large

[Joemailman]

A slow Safety class.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqVeHjGXoAEBZDh?format=png&name=900x900

[bobblehead]

https://twitter.com/Peter_Bukowski/status/1631686787679567877

There are very few truly elite WR that can't run a 4.4 and Jaxon didn't run it so that tells you all you need to know

[bobblehead]

Lukas Van Ness should be considered a real favorite for Packers pick at #15. Vertical jump only weak spot.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqQcIFJWYAENBK2.jpg:large

Literally just read an article that said Gutes hasn't drafted an edge without a 36" vertical. Seems crazy. Maybe I read it wrong.

[Joemailman]

Literally just read an article that said Gutes hasn't drafted an edge without a 36" vertical. Seems crazy. Maybe I read it wrong.

Gary was 37. Enagbare was 36.5.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Garvin?

[call_me_ishmael]

There are very few truly elite WR that can't run a 4.4 and Jaxon didn't run it so that tells you all you need to know

Don’t think he’s going to be elite. He’s going to bed Greg Jennings, which is pretty darn good.

[Joemailman]

Garvin?

36

[bobblehead]

Don’t think he’s going to be elite. He’s going to bed Greg Jennings, which is pretty darn good.

Thats fair...and if you could be sure of Greg Jennings career you would pick him in the first every time.

[bobblehead]

Those are some crazy verts for big men. I guess it has to do with explosion out of the stance. If Van Ness had a poor vertical I doubt Gutes takes him.

Considering the average vertical in the NBA is under 30" thats just crazy.

[run pMc]

Thing about Van Ness is he was a rotational player, not really even a starter, and he's so raw he just rushes without a plan -- it's all bull rush.
He could be Rashan Gary by Year 3 or he could be Vernon Gholston. Personally, I'd look at some other EDGE prospects who tested well but had more production. If Rodgers comes back I don't think you want to spend a pick on a guy who is a project and isn't very good or playable while Rodgers is here.

Jaxon Smith-Njigba doesn't strike me as being a lights-out athlete, but he has a knack for getting open. With a couple of other receiving threats he could be really good, he's kind of like a Randall Cobb -- able to be a good #2 but not a guy you can probably win with at the X or as your WR1. If we have a QB willing to throw into the middle of the field on schedule JSN could be a really good get. I think his ability to find soft spots in a zone and get a couple of yards of YAC is there on the pro-level. He's not Deebo though.

The Jalen Carter news is going to make a lot of teams in the top 10 go back and dig into this. The NFL has security people who are as good as the FBI, they'll find out if he's trouble or not. The drag racing thing is a BIG red flag. Will Anderson is likely the top pick now.

Overall good DL/EDGE groups so at this point the R1 pick could be there. Not thrilled about how the Safeties did, I think some of them play faster than they were timed but it's a concern. Brian Branch is.... ok. He's probably a slot corner and I'm not sure I'd take him at 15. Honestly, I'd rather trade down and pick up an extra pick to move around in mid rounds and grab a guy they like who might fall. I think they'll take a safety, but now maybe not before Round 3. I could see them go EDGE, TE, S, DL, WR, OL, etc. and pick a K in late Day 3.

[HarveyWallbangers]

There were only a handful of safeties who tested well. One of them included my sleeper Jason Taylor of Oklahoma State:

Jartavius Martin = 5'11" 194, 4.46 40, 1.47 10, 44" vert, 133" broad jump
Jason Taylor = 6'0" 204, 4.50 40, 1.52 10, 43" vert, 129" broad jump
Sydney Brown = 5'10" 211, 4.47 40, 1.51 10, 40.5" vert, 130" broad jump
Daniel Scott = 6'1" 208, 4.45 40, 1.55 10, 39.5" vert, 128" broad jump, 4.17 shuttle, 6.75 3 cone
Chamarri Conner = 6'0" 202, 4.51 40, 1.56 10, 40 1/2" vert, 125" broad jump

Note: only 2 safeties did the 3 cone and shuttle (Daniel Scott and Brandon Joseph).

[run pMc]

Pretty crazy when the DL and Edge players for these teams are running faster than the safeties.

Lot of scouts are going to go back to the tape.
Lot of safety prospects are going to rerun their 40s at pro day.
Wouldn't be shocked if some teams look at the corners and try to convert one to safety (Kelee Ringo?)

Gonna dig around for more video on the Taylor kid from OSU.
Heard somewhere that Martin played deep safety while Brown played up in the box for Illinois; I'd think GB would prefer the deep safety if they're going to play a lot of zone shells but who knows.

[call_me_ishmael]

Greg Jennings 2 is gonna be the first WR picked. Man he is silky smooth. Going to be a really good player. I want him on the Pack

[Joemailman]

Daniel Jeremiah thinks there could be as many as 4 TE's drafted in the 1st round and as many as 11 taken in the 1st 3 rounds. The TE class is as good as the Safety class is bad.

[Jaire]

Pretty weak draft class except edge.

[bobblehead]

Pretty weak draft class except edge.

CB is wicked deep as well. And TE is becoming more of a priority in the league and is very deep.

Most GMs consider CB and EDGE to be priorities so I think from that standpoint this draft is good if you are simply drafting BPA.

[texaspackerbacker]

They ought to be able to convert a lot of Corners to Safety - or just draft one as a Corner and commit to using Douglas as a Safety.

[Bretsky]

CB is wicked deep as well. And TE is becoming more of a priority in the league and is very deep.

Most GMs consider CB and EDGE to be priorities so I think from that standpoint this draft is good if you are simply drafting BPA.


While RB"s seem to be getting drafted much later, it seems that WR's and TE's are going higher than they used to.

What seems to have happened multiple multiple years when GB has drafted late round two (OBVIOUSLY they never draft offense in ROUND 1), is the real deal WR prospects, and somethings even the TE prospects, are all off the table by the time they get to their second round draft pick.

[run pMc]

While RB"s seem to be getting drafted much later, it seems that WR's and TE's are going higher than they used to.

What seems to have happened multiple multiple years when GB has drafted late round two (OBVIOUSLY they never draft offense in ROUND 1), is the real deal WR prospects, and somethings even the TE prospects, are all off the table by the time they get to their second round draft pick.

I think EDGE, CB and TE are above average depth this year. Other groups are average to below.
I also think you're right about the WR/TE prospects and GB's drafting order. There have been occasions where there was no trading partner or no real value at that pick for that position, and drafting for need gets you into trouble.
The counter argument is that there have been cases where a player WAS available but they didn't pick them (McLaurin, St. Brown), but it's not hard to argue that the higher you pick and the more (high) picks you have the more success you'll likely find -- unless you're scouting is terrible.

[Jaire]

Ok. I just glanced at prospects. this is uber weak imo. I think the TEs are getting overhyped because it's so weak elsewhere. CB's are intriguing.

My conclusion:

Just grab Duwand Jones and Darnell Washington and call it a draft.

[call_me_ishmael]

I’d be curious to know the average RAS of this draft vs others. It seems like more players are doing ability and doing it well this year. To me this sounds like a pretty good draft class for what the packers need.

[Joemailman]

Tony Pauline has 23 players with a solid 1st round grade and another 8 with a 1-2 round grade. 109 players have a day 1 & 2 grade. That's not bad. http://https://www.profootballnetwork.com/paulines-big-board-top-players-2023-nfl-draft/ I think it's an unbalanced draft with CB, Edge and TE very strong. Teams may have differing views as to the strength of this draft depending on what they are looking for.

[call_me_ishmael]

Some historically good RAS at TE. Gooter must be sproutin' a woody.

[bobblehead]

Ok. I just glanced at prospects. this is uber weak imo. I think the TEs are getting overhyped because it's so weak elsewhere. CB's are intriguing.

My conclusion:

Just grab Duwand Jones and Darnell Washington and call it a draft.

I think something like 7 TE had over an 8.0 RAS. 5 of those are considered plus blockers. That is strong by any definition.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Taylor gets a mention as one of the players the Packers might be interested in.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/lists/packers-position-by-position-look-at-the-winners-of-nfl-scouting-combine/

Some other guys mentioned that I like for the Packers - QB Clayton Tune, TE Sam LaPorta, and EDGE DJ Johnson. Tune is a guy I have rated higher than consensus and fits the Packers profile at QB. I liked LaPorta more than most before the combine, and he tested well. I don't know a lot about Johnson, but when I saw his size/athleticism ratio, it made me think the Packers would be interested.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Five more guys to add to my draft crushes. The list is up to 7. These are guys that I don't think are ranked as high as they should be:

RB Roschon Johnson
WR Jonathan Mingo
IOL Ricky Stromberg
LB Jack Campbell
CB D.J. Turner

A few of these guys will probably see their stock rise after the combine, but I felt good about all of these guys heading into the combine.

Previous:
WR Grant DuBose
S Jason Taylor

[Fritz]

Five more guys to add to my draft crushes. The list is up to 7. These are guys that I don't think are ranked as high as they should be:

RB Roschon Johnson
WR Jonathan Mingo
IOL Ricky Stromberg
LB Jack Campbell
CB D.J. Turner

A few of these guys will probably see their stock rise after the combine, but I felt good about all of these guys heading into the combine.

Previous:
WR Grant DuBose
S Jason Taylor

Somehow, the name "Jack Campbell" makes me think the guy played for the Rams in the early 70's.

[call_me_ishmael]

I want an edge and JSN in the first - assuming they get another pick from Rodgers. Would be an amazing receiving corps overhaul. TE in the second.

[run pMc]

Somehow, the name "Jack Campbell" makes me think the guy played for the Rams in the early 70's.

Jack Youngblood. Pretty good player. HOF player, in fact. Rams also had Jim Youngblood on their team, I always thought they were related but they weren't.

[call_me_ishmael]

This is such a great mock, at least the first few picks. I would love this.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2023/03/07/post-combine-7-round-mock-draft-for-packers-featuring-aaron-rodgers-trade

[Jaire]

This is such a great mock, at least the first few picks. I would love this.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2023/03/07/post-combine-7-round-mock-draft-for-packers-featuring-aaron-rodgers-trade

I would not draft WR this year. JSN is the only guy GB drafts in rounds one or two, and it's just too much draft capital. More to the point, I am not confident in this oline, this year and definitely into the future. Bakh has one or two years left. We don't even have an RT right now.

[call_me_ishmael]

I would not draft WR this year. JSN is the only guy GB drafts in rounds one or two, and it's just too much draft capital. More to the point, I am not confident in this oline, this year and definitely into the future. Bakh has one or two years left. We don't even have an RT right now.

I agree with that and was team OL in first earlier in the off-season, but I guess I just don't see the players there. Is Tom the RT or C of the future? If you think Myers has a chance I guess you're hoping for RT.

[run pMc]

I wouldn't take a WR high this year unless there was a good, falling one. Day 3 WR is ok.

I think Tom is a starter but not sure where yet. He might be the future LT. Keep Jenkins at LG.
If there's a good OL take them early, but they have some RT developmental candidates (Walker, Jones) who could emerge, and Njiman will be back on a one year RFA tender.
There aren't any top 5 pick OTs this year, but there are a few who are ok prospects later in R1 & 2 who could be starters by Year 2.

Myers has to play better. At a minimum they need to bring good competition for C into camp.

[Joemailman]

I wouldn't take a WR high this year unless there was a good, falling one. Day 3 WR is ok.

I think Tom is a starter but not sure where yet. He might be the future LT. Keep Jenkins at LG.
If there's a good OL take them early, but they have some RT developmental candidates (Walker, Jones) who could emerge, and Njiman will be back on a one year RFA tender.
There aren't any top 5 pick OTs this year, but there are a few who are ok prospects later in R1 & 2 who could be starters by Year 2.

Myers has to play better. At a minimum they need to bring good competition for C into camp.

Tom might be that competition if he's not needed at Tackle. I'm also hoping that maybe Myers can settle in a bit with a QB who isn't changing calls at the line as much as Rodgers does.

[Deputy Nutz]

jjj

[bobblehead]

I would not draft WR this year. JSN is the only guy GB drafts in rounds one or two, and it's just too much draft capital. More to the point, I am not confident in this oline, this year and definitely into the future. Bakh has one or two years left. We don't even have an RT right now.

Really? I think we are 3 deep with NFL starters at tackle. Nijman and Tom both showed they can play. If Jenkins is recovered it would be 4 deep.

edit: and the Myers talk is premature as well. He also came off a big injury. I think he will show out this season as a quality center. He was legit before the injury as a rookie starter.

[texaspackerbacker]

When you're right, you're right, bobblehead.

[run pMc]

The Myers talk is a touch premature because his rookie year was cut short. Last year's tape shows he needs to play better regardless, and having another player who can push him (or back him up) wouldn't hurt.
This year will be pivotal for him. He's not guaranteed to get a 2nd contract with GB with how he's played so far.
Not saying they should draft a C in R2 and get APB worked up, but I'd give Tom and maybe a Day 3 pick some looks there. Not Jake Hanson...that ship sailed.

At OT, there are at least 4 players who can play passably at OT: Bakhtiari, Jenkins, Tom, Njiman. Who knows what happens with Bakhtiari, and in another year Njiman will be due for a FA contract. The key will be their developmental guys -- can Rasheed Walker and/or Caleb Jones turn into anything? If so, they have lots of options in house and don't have to draft a T unless a great prospect falls to them. Some teams can barely field ONE decent OT, to have a few is an incredible luxury.

[red]

can we start talking about who we're gonna draft with the #13 pick yet?

[Joemailman]

can we start talking about who we're gonna draft with the #13 pick yet?

Don't jinx it.

[Jaire]

Really? I think we are 3 deep with NFL starters at tackle. Nijman and Tom both showed they can play. If Jenkins is recovered it would be 4 deep.

edit: and the Myers talk is premature as well. He also came off a big injury. I think he will show out this season as a quality center. He was legit before the injury as a rookie starter.

I thought Nijman was UFA, unsigned.

[call_me_ishmael]

JSN baby!

[Joemailman]

I thought Nijman was UFA, unsigned.

Nijman is RFA.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The Myers talk reminded me that I didn’t like him coming out. I have the pick a thumbs down and posted this:


1) I don’t like drafting OCs in the first 2 rounds unless they are elite prospects. This guy isn’t that.
2) I didn’t think he looked very good last year.
3) I didn’t think he fit our scheme—although I’ll defer to the FO on that.
4) If you were going to take an OC, I thought Humphrey was better.
5) You can find OCs later. Linsley was a 5th round pick.
6) I thought there were better players at other positions (Dyami Brown, Jabril Cox, Andre Cisco, Nixon) who fit our scheme.

I would have preferred Gute trade up and take an OT. Most of the guys who fit our scheme are now gone. Maybe he tried.

On the other hand, outside of Creed my alternatives weren’t very good.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

can we start talking about who we're gonna draft with the #13 pick yet?

Will Levis, QB, Kentucky.

Dunno ‘bout you, but I like my food spicy, my beer cold, my women hot, my corners dark and my QBs pale.

Love ain’t pale enough for my taste.

[Joemailman]

Will Levis, QB, Kentucky.

Dunno ‘bout you, but I like my food spicy, my beer cold, my women hot, my corners dark and my QBs pale.

Love ain’t pale enough for my taste.

Did you see the Superb Owl bro? QB's were Oktoberfest, not Pale Ale.

[sharpe1027]

can we start talking about who we're gonna draft with the #13 pick yet?

Aaron Rodgers is going back to college for his CoVID year and we're going to trade our pick to be sure we can draft him again next year. I heard it from a dude who runs a darkness retreat. Completely solid Intel.

[run pMc]

Also, Levis won't be there at #13. Some draftniks think he could go #1. I disagree, but no way he falls out of the top 10. Dude played in the SEC, has a cannon for an arm, and apparently is a great interview.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Did you see the Superb Owl bro? QB's were Oktoberfest, not Pale Ale.

Haven’t watched a SB since SB 45. But I think Mahomes legitimately could be classify as “pale ale.”

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Also, Levis won't be there at #13. Some draftniks think he could go #1. I disagree, but no way he falls out of the top 10. Dude played in the SEC, has a cannon for an arm, and apparently is a great interview.

To channel my inner Nutz, Levis is a cocky gunslinger. Didn’t put up pretty college stats. Could turn out to be a poor man’s Jeff George, a poor man’s Ryan Leaf or a poor man’s Bert Favor.

[red]

Also, Levis won't be there at #13. Some draftniks think he could go #1. I disagree, but no way he falls out of the top 10. Dude played in the SEC, has a cannon for an arm, and apparently is a great interview.

classic case of a guy who should probably be a 4th rounder but moves to the top of the draft because he's one of the better QB prospects

then people start saying, well, if he's the 4th best QB why couldn't he be the #1 QB?

how can a QB who was blah in college be a top pick?

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4361418/will-levis

he was 71st in yards
50th in Tds
91st in INTs
and 59th in QPR

what of those numbers screams of top 5 pick?

[Joemailman]

classic case of a guy who should probably be a 4th rounder but moves to the top of the draft because he's one of the better QB prospects

then people start saying, well, if he's the 4th best QB why couldn't he be the #1 QB?

how can a QB who was blah in college be a top pick?

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4361418/will-levis

he was 71st in yards
50th in Tds
91st in INTs
and 59th in QPR

what of those numbers screams of top 5 pick?

I haven't seen him, but if he has talent, you do have to take into account the talent he had around him, and the talent he had to go up against. Kentucky is generally one of the doormats of the SEC. He likely spent a lot of time running away from constant pressure.

[Fritz]

Don't do it, Pack. Don't. Remember the last QB you drafted who played college ball in the Commonwealth of Kentucky!

[run pMc]

I haven't seen him, but if he has talent, you do have to take into account the talent he had around him, and the talent he had to go up against. Kentucky is generally one of the doormats of the SEC. He likely spent a lot of time running away from constant pressure.

The general consensus is that he had nobody to throw to, and is toolsy. If you really want toolsy, take the Richardson kid and hope you can turn him into Lamar 2.0. Might take 3 years though.
I'm not overly sold on Levis. He's... okay.

[KYPack]

Don't do it, Pack. Don't. Remember the last QB you drafted who played college ball in the Commonwealth of Kentucky!
Cobb or Babe Parilli, ?
Going to the track next week, Fritz

[red]

Don't do it, Pack. Don't. Remember the last QB you drafted who played college ball in the Commonwealth of Kentucky!

randall cobb?

[red]

The general consensus is that he had nobody to throw to, and is toolsy. If you really want toolsy, take the Richardson kid and hope you can turn him into Lamar 2.0. Might take 3 years though.
I'm not overly sold on Levis. He's... okay.

another guy that people think could be "special", but did jack squat in college

classic case of a guy shooting way up boards because he can jump high and far, two things we all know are important for QBs to do

this is a guy who should probably be a 3rd rounder

[texaspackerbacker]

Don't do it, Pack. Don't. Remember the last QB you drafted who played college ball in the Commonwealth of Kentucky!

Didn't Brohm play for Kentucky?

[KYPack]

Didn't Brohm play for Kentucky?

Played in KY for Louisville

[bobblehead]

can we start talking about who we're gonna draft with the #13 pick yet?

Personally, I would trade back with both picks given the depth at position of need/rarity. But if I know gutes he will package both picks to move up 4 spots for whoever I least want.

[bobblehead]

Will Levis, QB, Kentucky.

Dunno ‘bout you, but I like my food spicy, my beer cold, my women hot, my corners dark and my QBs pale.

Love ain’t pale enough for my taste.

Love is just the right shade of caramelly goodness. Maholmes like. I like my QBs to be good and true dual threat. Love seems to be that.

[bobblehead]

classic case of a guy who should probably be a 4th rounder but moves to the top of the draft because he's one of the better QB prospects

then people start saying, well, if he's the 4th best QB why couldn't he be the #1 QB?

how can a QB who was blah in college be a top pick?

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4361418/will-levis

he was 71st in yards
50th in Tds
91st in INTs
and 59th in QPR

what of those numbers screams of top 5 pick?

I'm not sure who you are talking about....Jay Cutler??

[Sparkey]

The only good thing Levis will do is get drafted way too early allowing a good prospect to slide down to 15.

[red]

I'm not sure who you are talking about....Jay Cutler??

exactly

and every year people are left trying to figure out why so and so who sucked in college but "looked like a pro QB", and was draft #3 overall somehow busted out of the league

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm not a big Levis guy, but to say he's 4th round quality is silly. Dude has a lot of tools, and he played well in 2021 in the SEC. UK lost some players from last year. His OL sucked. They had some talent at WR, but it was really young. Similar to what Happened to Jordan Love from 2018 to 2019 at Utah State.

[HarveyWallbangers]

What's fun to think about though is that Will Levis turns 24 in July. Jordan Love turns 25 in November.

[KYPack]

I'm not a big Levis guy, but to say he's 4th round quality is silly. Dude has a lot of tools, and he played well in 2021 in the SEC. UK lost some players from last year. His OL sucked. They had some talent at WR, but it was really young. Similar to what Happened to Jordan Love from 2018 to 2019 at Utah State.

Definitely agree with your eval. He is attracting a lot of attention. He's got the size 6'4" 232, speed and arm. A skilled runner, scored 9 td's two years ago. He's intriguing , but I don't think he an NFL QB. He goes scatter arm often and gets lost in game situations. As you pointed out, he's 24 and will be a project in the league. The team that burns a 1 on him will waste a high pick

[run pMc]

Packers get a 5th and a 7th round compensatory pick (#170 and #256).

The currently have 10 picks in the 2023 draft.

[red]

Packers get a 5th and a 7th round compensatory pick (#170 and #256).

The currently have 10 picks in the 2023 draft.

and idea who they are for?

mvs was one

[run pMc]

MVS and Chandon Sullivan, supposedly. They lost out on a pick for Lucas Patrick because they signed Jarren Reed. Oren Burks' contract with SF apparently just missed the cutoff for a pick.

[Fritz]

Four seventh rounders - that's the special teams round. Load up on those types, give Bisaccia some tools, so that the ST can actually be a help instead of something to be overcome. Jordan Love's gonna need all the help he can get!

[texaspackerbacker]

Jordan Love's gonna need all the help he can get!

Why? Is the clipboard getting heavier?

[Bretsky]

Why? Is the clipboard getting heavier?

Are we using another 1st to draft a qb to start over Love ? :)

[RashanGary]

Are we using another 1st to draft a qb to start over Love ? :)

Tex is in denial :lol:

[Bretsky]

Tex is in denial :lol:

If and when Karen gets traded we'll have a thread dedicated to Tex apologizing to everybody :)

[KYPack]

The crazed Texan will have to make many amends when this trade goes down.

[texaspackerbacker]

If and when Karen gets traded we'll have a thread dedicated to Tex apologizing to everybody :)

I won't be doing any damn apologizing. Aside from the fact that what I say is eminently logical and what the ya'all crowd of dumbasses spew is not, there is the fact that if/WHEN I am correct, everyone in here who is a Packer fan will have good times for 1 maybe 2 or 3 or more seasons, while if ya'all are correct, it's a dark age of bad times for the foreseeable future. It's one thing to be one of the poor misguided fools THINKING Rodgers will be gone. That's bad enough. What's really low down, though, are the ...... fill in your own horrendously bad word ....... who actually WANT Rodgers gone -- with all the rotten times that implies. So fuck the idea of apologizing, right or wrong.

[MadScientist]

Deleted - apparently the Bears draft trade is in the banjo thread instead of the draft thread.

[Bretsky]

I won't be doing any damn apologizing. Aside from the fact that what I say is eminently logical and what the ya'all crowd of dumbasses spew is not, there is the fact that if/WHEN I am correct, everyone in here who is a Packer fan will have good times for 1 maybe 2 or 3 or more seasons, while if ya'all are correct, it's a dark age of bad times for the foreseeable future. It's one thing to be one of the poor misguided fools THINKING Rodgers will be gone. That's bad enough. What's really low down, though, are the ...... fill in your own horrendously bad word ....... who actually WANT Rodgers gone -- with all the rotten times that implies. So fuck the idea of apologizing, right or wrong.



Karen's almost a traitor Tex. They bent over backwards for him. They screwed the Packer Franchise with that contract and gave him everything he wanted and more. As all they wanted back was the Pre Jordan Love Rodgers. The one who kept in touch with his teammates in the offseason, got his body in shape, and came all all of the offseason stuff to build chemistry with his teammates. Instead, his arrogance was evident right from the start when he noted COBO had coach the WR's up while he's away.

They thought, paying him insane money, Karen would decide to go all in. ane re didicate himself like he once was. They even brough back some oldies they clearly didn't want and then massages his overbloated ego by consulting him on Packer decisions, and sharing that with the media.

Instead of Karen's returning the favor for the asininely structured contract and power he was given, he didn't re dedicate himself, and his mannerisms from the get-go in the Minnesota game, was a sign that the pompous arrogant attitude was still there.

He called out his teammates during games, and called out his own coach and GM later in the season.....completely inexcusable. Shit teammate.

He became part of the God Dam Media you bitch about all the time by promoting his own agenda and views, some of which were perhaps complete bullshit, as you might call the media

And now, the Green Bay GM has attempted to take back the power, and Karen doesn't like it at all.

It's a sad story. He mocked Favre and told others he's never act like that.

He's worse

[sharpe1027]

I won't be doing any damn apologizing. Aside from the fact that what I say is eminently logical and what the ya'all crowd of dumbasses spew is not, there is the fact that if/WHEN I am correct, everyone in here who is a Packer fan will have good times for 1 maybe 2 or 3 or more seasons, while if ya'all are correct, it's a dark age of bad times for the foreseeable future. It's one thing to be one of the poor misguided fools THINKING Rodgers will be gone. That's bad enough. What's really low down, though, are the ...... fill in your own horrendously bad word ....... who actually WANT Rodgers gone -- with all the rotten times that implies. So fuck the idea of apologizing, right or wrong.

Good. I don't want your apology. It's much better to watch you squirm trying to backpedal.

[Jaire]

Karen's almost a traitor Tex. They bent over backwards for him. They screwed the Packer Franchise with that contract and gave him everything he wanted and more. As all they wanted back was the Pre Jordan Love Rodgers. The one who kept in touch with his teammates in the offseason, got his body in shape, and came all all of the offseason stuff to build chemistry with his teammates. Instead, his arrogance was evident right from the start when he noted COBO had coach the WR's up while he's away.

They thought, paying him insane money, Karen would decide to go all in. ane re didicate himself like he once was. They even brough back some oldies they clearly didn't want and then massages his overbloated ego by consulting him on Packer decisions, and sharing that with the media.

Instead of Karen's returning the favor for the asininely structured contract and power he was given, he didn't re dedicate himself, and his mannerisms from the get-go in the Minnesota game, was a sign that the pompous arrogant attitude was still there.

He called out his teammates during games, and called out his own coach and GM later in the season.....completely inexcusable. Shit teammate.

He became part of the God Dam Media you bitch about all the time by promoting his own agenda and views, some of which were perhaps complete bullshit, as you might call the media

And now, the Green Bay GM has attempted to take back the power, and Karen doesn't like it at all.

It's a sad story. He mocked Favre and told others he's never act like that.

He's worse Yeah... it's looking pretty bad right now. I had not seen the details on that contract. GB is screwed imo unless AR plays nice. We'll see.

[Fosco33]

Karen's almost a traitor Tex. They bent over backwards for him. They screwed the Packer Franchise with that contract and gave him everything he wanted and more. As all they wanted back was the Pre Jordan Love Rodgers. The one who kept in touch with his teammates in the offseason, got his body in shape, and came all all of the offseason stuff to build chemistry with his teammates. Instead, his arrogance was evident right from the start when he noted COBO had coach the WR's up while he's away.

They thought, paying him insane money, Karen would decide to go all in. ane re didicate himself like he once was. They even brough back some oldies they clearly didn't want and then massages his overbloated ego by consulting him on Packer decisions, and sharing that with the media.

Instead of Karen's returning the favor for the asininely structured contract and power he was given, he didn't re dedicate himself, and his mannerisms from the get-go in the Minnesota game, was a sign that the pompous arrogant attitude was still there.

He called out his teammates during games, and called out his own coach and GM later in the season.....completely inexcusable. Shit teammate.

He became part of the God Dam Media you bitch about all the time by promoting his own agenda and views, some of which were perhaps complete bullshit, as you might call the media

And now, the Green Bay GM has attempted to take back the power, and Karen doesn't like it at all.

It's a sad story. He mocked Favre and told others he's never act like that.

He's worse

I totally disagree. Post love he had numerous 13 win seasons and MVPs.

As an aging player - he’s been backing out on bs for awhile.

And, from comments from the team and AR, he seems like a better leader now.

And he’s been very consistent in his actions and statements.

[Fritz]

I won't be doing any damn apologizing. Aside from the fact that what I say is eminently logical and what the ya'all crowd of dumbasses spew is not, there is the fact that if/WHEN I am correct, everyone in here who is a Packer fan will have good times for 1 maybe 2 or 3 or more seasons, while if ya'all are correct, it's a dark age of bad times for the foreseeable future. It's one thing to be one of the poor misguided fools THINKING Rodgers will be gone. That's bad enough. What's really low down, though, are the ...... fill in your own horrendously bad word ....... who actually WANT Rodgers gone -- with all the rotten times that implies. So fuck the idea of apologizing, right or wrong.


So if someone is of the opinion that last season showed that Rodgers's skills are in decline, and is of the opinion that Jordan Love may well be a good NFL QB (with which the Packer brass seems to be in agreement), then they are "low down"? That those opinions are morally bankrupt somehow? Low Down?

Hmm. I might have to consider changing my user name to "Boz Scaggs."

[texaspackerbacker]

Misguided opinions are one thing. Evil wants are something else entirely.

What are the big dates for ya'all? March 15? June 1? any others to be aware of? I'm thoroughly expecting these to come and go without anything significant happening on the Rodgers front. We'll see, I guess, whether I'm disappointed and he's gone one way or the other, OR we have another 13 or 14 win season with Rodgers, and the lowdown ya'all crowd are disappointed.

[red]

Deleted - apparently the Bears draft trade is in the banjo thread instead of the draft thread.

yeah, not sure why i did that

maybe i just wanted to screw with the forum lol

[bobblehead]

I totally disagree. Post love he had numerous 13 win seasons and MVPs.

As an aging player - he’s been backing out on bs for awhile.

And, from comments from the team and AR, he seems like a better leader now.

And he’s been very consistent in his actions and statements.
As usual, the truth is somewhere between yours and Bretskys takes. Worse than Favre? That is ridiculous. Better leader? Also a hard no.

[red]

am i the only one that thinks his last MVP was just kinda handed to him?

he had a somewhat down year, and there were a handful of other guys that had better seasons

i was a bit surprised when people started talking about him being the front runner and then winning it. its like the voters said, well i can't decide who else to give it too, so lets just give it to rodgers again

i'm not saying that he had a bad year at all, just that others had better years

[Bretsky]

am i the only one that thinks his last MVP was just kinda handed to him?

he had a somewhat down year, and there were a handful of other guys that had better seasons

i was a bit surprised when people started talking about him being the front runner and then winning it. its like the voters said, well i can't decide who else to give it too, so lets just give it to rodgers again

i'm not saying that he had a bad year at all, just that others had better years




He gave us some fun times to watch those two years; I was fine with both.

But it's borderline stupid to name the MVP "before" the completion of the playoffs.

[RashanGary]

am i the only one that thinks his last MVP was just kinda handed to him?

he had a somewhat down year, and there were a handful of other guys that had better seasons

i was a bit surprised when people started talking about him being the front runner and then winning it. its like the voters said, well i can't decide who else to give it too, so lets just give it to rodgers again

i'm not saying that he had a bad year at all, just that others had better years

I thought Brady should have gotten it.

[Bretsky]

Misguided opinions are one thing. Evil wants are something else entirely.

What are the big dates for ya'all? March 15? June 1? any others to be aware of? I'm thoroughly expecting these to come and go without anything significant happening on the Rodgers front. We'll see, I guess, whether I'm disappointed and he's gone one way or the other, OR we have another 13 or 14 win season with Rodgers, and the lowdown ya'all crowd are disappointed.



I doin't care about the 13 wins anymore. If he's back I'lll measure him by his performance, or lack of it, in his playoff performance

[Fritz]

Misguided opinions are one thing. Evil wants are something else entirely.

What are the big dates for ya'all? March 15? June 1? any others to be aware of? I'm thoroughly expecting these to come and go without anything significant happening on the Rodgers front. We'll see, I guess, whether I'm disappointed and he's gone one way or the other, OR we have another 13 or 14 win season with Rodgers, and the lowdown ya'all crowd are disappointed.

https://content.instructables.com/FBL/JM9S/H8OJEWTJ/FBLJM9SH8OJEWTJ.jpg?auto=webp&frame=1&width=320&md=4f6440200257b6ac03e00e3bd7cb447e

Although I am a diehard Packer fan, I want nothing more than for Aaron Rodgers to be traded and for Jordan Love to take over and be a FAILURE!!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[run pMc]

I think with supporting talent around him Jordan Love has a chance to be good. Maybe not great, but good. He's improved each time he's played, and if MLF is anywhere near as good with QBs as Shanahan is they should be able to get decent QB play from him.
They need to add a couple more playmakers on offense though. Aaron Jones is back which is nice, and Watson is a threat but they don't have anyone else really, and I think they need at least one more if not two.
(Doubs is a nice player, but I'm not sure I'd call him a playmaker.)
They especially need to figure out their RZ issues...that might be where a TE could help them.

[RashanGary]

I think with supporting talent around him Jordan Love has a chance to be good. Maybe not great, but good. He's improved each time he's played, and if MLF is anywhere near as good with QBs as Shanahan is they should be able to get decent QB play from him.
They need to add a couple more playmakers on offense though. Aaron Jones is back which is nice, and Watson is a threat but they don't have anyone else really, and I think they need at least one more if not two.
(Doubs is a nice player, but I'm not sure I'd call him a playmaker.)
They especially need to figure out their RZ issues...that might be where a TE could help them.

TEs in the red zone sounds like a reasonable cliche, but it’s been so long since I’ve seen it in Green Bay, I don’t know if it’s a thing?

[run pMc]

Starting to fall off the Dalton Kincaid bandwagon, back injuries worry me.
I think I'm jumping on the Darnell Washington bandwagon. Floor is a 6th OL level blocking TE, Ceiling is he could be that and a guy who posts up 5-11 safeties in the RZ.

Mayer is fine, but not sure how dynamic he is. Agree with many that he seems like a Jason Witten clone, which is fine.

Seen people gush about Luke Musgrave, he feels like a project to me. Could turn into Travis Kelce or he could be Tyler Eifert.

Starting to feel like there's value in bringing back either Big Dog or Tonyan. My preference would actually be Big Dog to help teach draft picks about blocking and being a pro. I think they could get a guy like Sam LaPorta to replace Tonyan and be ok.
I am hoping they take 2 TEs in this draft, one in first 3 round and one late. They have all those R7 picks, could see them take a project (or just a big blocking TE) late. They need someone who can play inline (the Y) and block, and a pass catcher (F/H/wide), if that requires two players they'll go that route.

[run pMc]

TEs in the red zone sounds like a reasonable cliche, but it’s been so long since I’ve seen it in Green Bay, I don’t know if it’s a thing?

They tried it with Jimmy Graham; didn't work out that well.
Was Finley the last TE who was good in the RZ? Don't recall if Tonyan had a lot of RZ TDs in his one big year?

Last year really sucked watching them drive down the field to inside the 5 and then hand off out of shotgun to Dillon for no gain, or for Rodgers to rollout and miss Lazard. 7 minute drives and 3 points... and then Joe Barry has to hold serve.

[Jaire]

I agree, run pMc. Good year to get a tight end and not overpay. I am with you on Washington and LaPorta as well. There's other later picks too.

I like the round three receivers better than round one and two as well except JSN

[red]

They tried it with Jimmy Graham; didn't work out that well.
Was Finley the last TE who was good in the RZ? Don't recall if Tonyan had a lot of RZ TDs in his one big year?

Last year really sucked watching them drive down the field to inside the 5 and then hand off out of shotgun to Dillon for no gain, or for Rodgers to rollout and miss Lazard. 7 minute drives and 3 points... and then Joe Barry has to hold serve.

i want to say that almost all of tonyans catches in his one decent year were for TDs

[Fosco33]

As usual, the truth is somewhere between yours and Bretskys takes. Worse than Favre? That is ridiculous. Better leader? Also a hard no.

Possibly.

I’m talking about his on field leadership.

He’s wore a fricken wristband. Dealt w/ losing his best player.

He was right on Mercedes and Cobb.

He hasn’t had the ‘disgusted’ looks he had on the field for so many years.

And he’s stood up for his own principles.

And for the zillionth time - he’s been super consistent with his statements and actions.

Could he have signed a team friendly deal? Sure.
Could he do more to help Love in the system or attended optional team activities. Sure

But a guy that knows his body and hit pitch clock - not sure it’s needed.
And for the most part - despite injuries - he made the right throws. Dealt w/ drops and didn’t bitch in game. Even said he had to play better.

To each opinion is own - but I think AR is the shit.

[sharpe1027]

And for the most part - despite injuries - he made the right throws. Dealt w/ drops and didn’t bitch in game. Even said he had to play better.

To each opinion is own - but I think AR is the shit.
I don't know how good a leader Rodgers is, but he's been a ridiculously good quarterback over his career.
That being said, the quoted part above doesn't sit right with me. His decision making was bang on average last year, and I'm being generous.

[red]

Possibly.

I’m talking about his on field leadership.

He’s wore a fricken wristband. Dealt w/ losing his best player.

He was right on Mercedes and Cobb.

He hasn’t had the ‘disgusted’ looks he had on the field for so many years.

And he’s stood up for his own principles.

And for the zillionth time - he’s been super consistent with his statements and actions.

Could he have signed a team friendly deal? Sure.
Could he do more to help Love in the system or attended optional team activities. Sure

But a guy that knows his body and hit pitch clock - not sure it’s needed.
And for the most part - despite injuries - he made the right throws. Dealt w/ drops and didn’t bitch in game. Even said he had to play better.

To each opinion is own - but I think AR is the shit.

wow, you are living in lala land

are you sure you weren't watching replays from a couple years ago?

i'm not even gonna waste time going through your list, you have your head too far up his ass to see any truth that you don't want to see

[HarveyWallbangers]

Starting to fall off the Dalton Kincaid bandwagon, back injuries worry me.
I think I'm jumping on the Darnell Washington bandwagon. Floor is a 6th OL level blocking TE, Ceiling is he could be that and a guy who posts up 5-11 safeties in the RZ.

Mayer is fine, but not sure how dynamic he is. Agree with many that he seems like a Jason Witten clone, which is fine.

Seen people gush about Luke Musgrave, he feels like a project to me. Could turn into Travis Kelce or he could be Tyler Eifert.

Starting to feel like there's value in bringing back either Big Dog or Tonyan. My preference would actually be Big Dog to help teach draft picks about blocking and being a pro. I think they could get a guy like Sam LaPorta to replace Tonyan and be ok.
I am hoping they take 2 TEs in this draft, one in first 3 round and one late. They have all those R7 picks, could see them take a project (or just a big blocking TE) late. They need someone who can play inline (the Y) and block, and a pass catcher (F/H/wide), if that requires two players they'll go that route.

Kincaid could be a great receiving TE. If his medicals check out, I'll probably have him #1. He may be the worst inline blocker in the draftable TE class this year, but he actually blocks well on the move. Musgrave is intriguing. His receiving potential is second to Kincaid, but he's actually a decent blocker. Mayer is solid, but I'd want somebody more dynamic at #15. Washington scares me a bit. There's no doubt he's a great blocker and his measurables are good, but he doesn't look very natural running or as a receiver. LaPorta and Kraft are also very good prospects. Schoonmaker and Whyle are underrated. Kuntz and Higgins (as a convert from WR) are also intriguing. This is a good TE class, but they all have some question marks.

My rankings at the moment:


Rk Rd Player
1 1-2 Dalton Kincaid
2 1-2 Luke Musgrave
3 1-2 Michael Mayer
4 2 Darnell Washington
5 2-3 Sam LaPorta
6 2-3 Tucker Kraft
7 3-4 Luke Schoonmaker
8 3-4 Josh Whyle
9 4-5 Zack Kuntz
10 4-5 Elijah Higgins

[Bretsky]

wow, you are living in lala land

are you sure you weren't watching replays from a couple years ago?

i'm not even gonna waste time going through your list, you have your head too far up his ass to see any truth that you don't want to see


I love Fosco the poster but I"d have to agree and I don't even know where to start. I wish I had the ability to close my eyes and not notice things but I can't do it. ''

I'd say this; AROD used to be a great leader. He lost his way and most who paid attention noticed his horrrible mannerisms in games the first half of the season, his comments, and how he's turned into such a Karen is so many ways I don't even know where to start

[texaspackerbacker]

It's just shameful the way some of ya'all swallow the SHIT spewing from the fake news assholes like its gospel.

[sharpe1027]

I just think about peanuts cartoon adults when I see a post from Tex. I know the gist of what's being said but it's still meaningless gibberish.

[Fosco33]

I realize how weird and somewhat rare that I agree with Tex. On that alone I should admit I’m wrong.

But it’s just football and speculation for clicks. And the media loves to hate on anything.

I predict if AR comes back w/ more experience under the WRs, maybe a new vet WR, avoiding injuries, there’s no reason to say he can’t play pretty well or even very good. It’s less likely than say 3-5 years ago - but recall before the MVP years, he wasn’t playing well and many (including me) were fine to send him along for a boatload of draft picks.

[run pMc]

I just think about peanuts cartoon adults when I see a post from Tex. I know the gist of what's being said but it's still meaningless gibberish.

Would be helpful if he actually posted a link to whatever he's criticizing. Otherwise it's just vague to the level of being meaningless gibberish.

[texaspackerbacker]

What link? Just look at most of the pathetic posts from the ya'all crowd THAT's what I'm criticizing. Or if you're referring to the media shit, I just assumed that ya'all gobble down every word they print. Sadly, even I read their crap - I just down't automatically believe it. A lot of it gets linked by others in here anyway.

[bobblehead]

I realize how weird and somewhat rare that I agree with Tex. On that alone I should admit I’m wrong.

But it’s just football and speculation for clicks. And the media loves to hate on anything.

I predict if AR comes back w/ more experience under the WRs, maybe a new vet WR, avoiding injuries, there’s no reason to say he can’t play pretty well or even very good. It’s less likely than say 3-5 years ago - but recall before the MVP years, he wasn’t playing well and many (including me) were fine to send him along for a boatload of draft picks.

I'll agree and disagree. COULD AR come back and be near MVP again? Sure. But he won't for a few reasons. Mentally he is checked out. He needs a chip on his shoulder and sticking in GB won't put it there. He needs an insane offseason of workouts at his age. He isn't interested in that. He needs to be vested in the teams success. That isn't the case. He is already a first ballot HoF.

Last seasons turmoil and the thumb were to blame for his god awful year....but even if things went smooth, he just wasn't into it. His demeanor was that of a guy who checked out. He is playing football because he doesn't really know anything else at this point, but I honestly believe he is looking for whats next. Just like when fat Mike had a kid and checked out as a coach, Rodgers head isn't in the game the way it needs to be to win an Owl. Hopefully Love's is.

[run pMc]

What link? Just look at most of the pathetic posts from the ya'all crowd THAT's what I'm criticizing. Or if you're referring to the media shit, I just assumed that ya'all gobble down every word they print. Sadly, even I read their crap - I just down't automatically believe it. A lot of it gets linked by others in here anyway.

I'm trying to understand who or what exactly is so pathetic, or what media pukes you are referring to? You never mention them. Websites like PFF and SIS actually have people who watch and chart every play, and have All-22 film. Do you do that? Newspapers like Journal-Sentinel have actual journalistic standards and fact-check. Do you? It's hard to have an intelligent conversation or a debate with someone who only speaks angrily in general vague terms. If there's something in the media you disagree with, post a link and say why.

If you disagree with posts here, say why and provide some factual basis to back up your point. Otherwise you're just providing opinions and those are understood as such. An opinion isn't fact.
I can't recall many things you've been correct about, tbh. To wit,
- Watson did not outperform Adams this year.
- Adams did not have a bad year for LV.
- Bakhtiari has been and still is a good LT by metrics gathered by people who do that work as full time professionals.
- Myers was a league average player.
- Rodgers was not elite last year, and his legs are going on him, as demonstrated by his decreasing rushing numbers and diminishing accuracy.

I'm fine if you have an opinion - we all do. If you're going to call people all kinds of things for their opinions while doubling down on your own, you better come back with something to back it up.
As it is, most of your takes are pure opinions stated without any facts to back them up, and yet when others disagree you call them pathetic. it makes you sound like you're yelling at clouds and need a nap.

[Bretsky]

I'll agree and disagree. COULD AR come back and be near MVP again? Sure. But he won't for a few reasons. Mentally he is checked out. He needs a chip on his shoulder and sticking in GB won't put it there. He needs an insane offseason of workouts at his age. He isn't interested in that. He needs to be vested in the teams success. That isn't the case. He is already a first ballot HoF.

Last seasons turmoil and the thumb were to blame for his god awful year....but even if things went smooth, he just wasn't into it. His demeanor was that of a guy who checked out. He is playing football because he doesn't really know anything else at this point, but I honestly believe he is looking for whats next. Just like when fat Mike had a kid and checked out as a coach, Rodgers head isn't in the game the way it needs to be to win an Owl. Hopefully Love's is.



:bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap:

[red]

I'll agree and disagree. COULD AR come back and be near MVP again? Sure. But he won't for a few reasons. Mentally he is checked out. He needs a chip on his shoulder and sticking in GB won't put it there. He needs an insane offseason of workouts at his age. He isn't interested in that. He needs to be vested in the teams success. That isn't the case. He is already a first ballot HoF.

Last seasons turmoil and the thumb were to blame for his god awful year....but even if things went smooth, he just wasn't into it. His demeanor was that of a guy who checked out. He is playing football because he doesn't really know anything else at this point, but I honestly believe he is looking for whats next. Just like when fat Mike had a kid and checked out as a coach, Rodgers head isn't in the game the way it needs to be to win an Owl. Hopefully Love's is.

i can see him playing at a high level again. it just won't happen if he's a packer

exactly like you said, he needs to feel like people are doubting him or disrespecting him

he's already proven that he doesn't give a shit anymore in green and gold

but if he goes to the jets, well, now he gets to prove the packers wrong, he gets to prove all the media wrong who thinks he was checked out last year. he gets to live in his special place where its him against everyone

he might even show up for offseason work and engage with his team mates (and not just his inner circle)

he might have a career season. but it won't happen if hes a packer

[Fosco33]

Brady started skipping Ota’s in 2018. He’s a huge diva - always yelling and looking pissed. Breaking tablets. Retiring and unretiring. Where’s the vitriol against Brady??

The league didn’t have them in 20 because of the pandemic and Arod won the mvp.

Some here want Lamar. He skipped last years too.

I think many here have unrealistic and slanted views against AR.

https://www.usnews.com/news/sports/articles/2022-06-01/brady-rodgers-headline-list-of-nfl-players-skipping-otas

[KYPack]

I'm trying to understand who or what exactly is so pathetic, or what media pukes you are referring to? You never mention them. Websites like PFF and SIS actually have people who watch and chart every play, and have All-22 film. Do you do that? Newspapers like Journal-Sentinel have actual journalistic standards and fact-check. Do you? It's hard to have an intelligent conversation or a debate with someone who only speaks angrily in general vague terms. If there's something in the media you disagree with, post a link and say why.

If you disagree with posts here, say why and provide some factual basis to back up your point. Otherwise you're just providing opinions and those are understood as such. An opinion isn't fact.
I can't recall many things you've been correct about, tbh. To wit,
- Watson did not outperform Adams this year.
- Adams did not have a bad year for LV.
- Bakhtiari has been and still is a good LT by metrics gathered by people who do that work as full time professionals.
- Myers was a league average player.
- Rodgers was not elite last year, and his legs are going on him, as demonstrated by his decreasing rushing numbers and diminishing accuracy.

I'm fine if you have an opinion - we all do. If you're going to call people all kinds of things for their opinions while doubling down on your own, you better come back with something to back it up.
As it is, most of your takes are pure opinions stated without any facts to back them up, and yet when others disagree you call them pathetic. it makes you sound like you're yelling at clouds and need a nap.

This is an excellent post. It should be chiseled in granite and Tex be made to eat it. There they are Tex, al the shit you've been dead wrong about. Posters that don't agree with you are not shitheads or whatever goofy names you choose to call them, they just have a different opinions.

The Pack is in change and are making a big transition. Rodgers ain't gonna be our QB for the next 5 years, he might be gone in 5 days.

When it happens, don't come on here and scream at the clouds. Look around your crib, find a clean shirt and head down to the border for a couple days.

Great post, Run.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'll agree and disagree. COULD AR come back and be near MVP again? Sure. But he won't for a few reasons. Mentally he is checked out. He needs a chip on his shoulder and sticking in GB won't put it there. He needs an insane offseason of workouts at his age. He isn't interested in that. He needs to be vested in the teams success. That isn't the case. He is already a first ballot HoF.

Last seasons turmoil and the thumb were to blame for his god awful year....but even if things went smooth, he just wasn't into it. His demeanor was that of a guy who checked out. He is playing football because he doesn't really know anything else at this point, but I honestly believe he is looking for whats next. Just like when fat Mike had a kid and checked out as a coach, Rodgers head isn't in the game the way it needs to be to win an Owl. Hopefully Love's is.

hahahahaha You know this how? You know what they say about making assumptions.

[Bretsky]

Brady started skipping Ota’s in 2018. He’s a huge diva - always yelling and looking pissed. Breaking tablets. Retiring and unretiring. Where’s the vitriol against Brady??

The league didn’t have them in 20 because of the pandemic and Arod won the mvp.

Some here want Lamar. He skipped last years too.

I think many here have unrealistic and slanted views against AR.

https://www.usnews.com/news/sports/articles/2022-06-01/brady-rodgers-headline-list-of-nfl-players-skipping-otas

Probably right; cause he's turned into a dickbag. And plent of people mocked Brady; at least those who gave a shit about him.

Rodgers created a lot of shit, got 120 percent of what he wanted, which included a contract that was only fabulous for him. And then he let us and the organization down by with his lack of offseaon workouts, by not attending things in the offseason, by not connecting with his WR'snd making the extra efforts, by his shiitface mannerisms in games last year, calling them out in the media, and calling out his head coach and GM in the media.

And her comes round two

Gute realized it was a mistaken to enable Karen and give up so much power, the one sides constructed contract, and doesn't want him to be the assistant GM anymore.

At the end of last year, well with two weeks left in the season, he's already opening up the box again about taking some time to decide if he wants to play next year after the season, and seeing if GB really wants him back. He's not getting his balls massaged this year.

Gute says he wants AROD back in but only if he's all in again. And he's not.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm trying to understand who or what exactly is so pathetic, or what media pukes you are referring to? You never mention them. Websites like PFF and SIS actually have people who watch and chart every play, and have All-22 film. Do you do that? Newspapers like Journal-Sentinel have actual journalistic standards and fact-check. Do you? It's hard to have an intelligent conversation or a debate with someone who only speaks angrily in general vague terms. If there's something in the media you disagree with, post a link and say why.

If you disagree with posts here, say why and provide some factual basis to back up your point. Otherwise you're just providing opinions and those are understood as such. An opinion isn't fact.
I can't recall many things you've been correct about, tbh. To wit,
- Watson did not outperform Adams this year.
- Adams did not have a bad year for LV.
- Bakhtiari has been and still is a good LT by metrics gathered by people who do that work as full time professionals.
- Myers was a league average player.
- Rodgers was not elite last year, and his legs are going on him, as demonstrated by his decreasing rushing numbers and diminishing accuracy.

I'm fine if you have an opinion - we all do. If you're going to call people all kinds of things for their opinions while doubling down on your own, you better come back with something to back it up.
As it is, most of your takes are pure opinions stated without any facts to back them up, and yet when others disagree you call them pathetic. it makes you sound like you're yelling at clouds and need a nap.

You sound like some teachers etc. I used to have that wanted "sources" hahahahaha. I don't put much stock in sources. I have Google Chrome as my internet provider. A bunch of "news" keeps showing up on my screen right next to the temperature and weather forecast. I tend to click on the damn clickbait - all the stupid articles about Rodgers, the Jets getting him, and whatever other ignorant shit on the topic shows up. I'm not much for looking at bylines - which media puke is spewing the shit. I just assumed the "ya'all crowd" in here are reading the same bullshit articles - and swallowing the garbage like gospel. I read it with admittedly a bit of a jaded outlook hahahaha, and whenever possible, I reply there too - often less nicey nice than here. I occasionally see anti-Rodgers shit in Facebook too from a couple of these Badger or Wisconsin whatever sites. There are dumbasses there too, as well as probably a bigger percentage of people making sense than in here. Opinions are what forums are for. If you want sources or stats or whatever, go to somebody that gets paid. I'm in it for fun.

Regarding your little list: I'd still say Adams had a pretty bad year. His team stunk, and well into the season, he wasn't doing much either in terms of catches or targets. He did finish strong, I guess, but his team was down the drain by then. Watson didn't quite outplay Adams. A large part of it was injuries, both his own and Rodgers, but I should have known rookie inexperience would limit him to some extent. As for Bakhtiari, I know what I see, and I stand by what I've said about him (including that the fact that Rodgers likes him probably has a lot to do with Bakhtiari staying as a Packer). What are you saying about Meyers? That I said he's "a league average player"? Or that you're saying he isn't? Or what? My opinion of him, I say again, is that he's damn good and gonna get better yet, well above average as league Centers go. And Rodgers? Did I say he was "elite" in his performance last season? I probably did predict that before the season - hopefully with the caveat of not getting injured, which he did. His legs going? Sure, that's to be expected in his upper thirties, but to a greater degree than just what would be expected? Hell no. Are you seriously saying that? He ran as needed last season and actually seemed to be showing off at times to silence critics who thought he was deteriorating. The accuracy I would attribute to the thumb injury, and even with that, I'd say his accuracy was better than a lot of QBs around the league. You seriously think otherwise?

As for calling people pathetic, their words betray them. Anybody thinking all this trade shit is gonna happen is seriously misguided - IMO. Anybody seriously wishing for Rodgers to be gone, however, is craving mediocrity or worse - wanting the team we all claim to be fans of a loser for the foreseeable future. And THAT is pathetic.

[Fosco33]

So the packers were ‘forced’ to sign a player friendly contract? That’s on management, not the player.

AR has been edgy since high school - it’s not like he’s just suddenly become a dick.

It takes 22 plus ST to win games. The offensive line and WRs and Defense (and Kick/Punt return) all underperformed until the win streak started. Could AR have built more chemistry w/ the Rookie WRs - no doubt.

All I’m saying is the amount of shade being tossed around here isn’t warranted and AR hasn’t suddenly become a bag of dicks.

[sharpe1027]

This is a draft thread. Should we all move the discussion back on subject together?

[RashanGary]

There are clips of Jordan Love working on his game circulating Twitter. It’s kind of exciting to see a new young QB Tex. We’re not all doom and gloom aboht the next guy like you are and that doesn’t make us pathetic. It makes us optimistic Packer fans.

[RashanGary]

What’s kind of ironic about Tex is his personality fits what media people are taught to do, to get a following. Nobody trained Tex how to get reactions, but he naturally takes hard stances like a media person looking for clicks. It’s kind of hilarious to see Tex have a media personality and then hate them.

[red]

There are clips of Jordan Love working on his game circulating Twitter. It’s kind of exciting to see a new young QB Tex. We’re not all doom and gloom aboht the next guy like you are and that doesn’t make us pathetic. It makes us optimistic Packer fans.

i'll never forget the game he came in for this year when he was on the sideline with the tablet with the whole offense around him going over what they were going to do

to me that was exciting to see

[texaspackerbacker]

What’s kind of ironic about Tex is his personality fits what media people are taught to do, to get a following. Nobody trained Tex how to get reactions, but he naturally takes hard stances like a media person looking for clicks. It’s kind of hilarious to see Tex have a media personality and then hate them.

Seriously? I really don't give a shit about a "following". If anybody else is smart enough to see through the media shit, good for them. If people, even most people, are too damn dumb, that's on them too. I see you actually started a thread about this farce - "what are the Packers gonna get?" - like this idiocy is actually gonna happen.

I say again, if I'm wrong, and ya'all are right, the Packers and all us fans enter a dark age of mediocrity and losing. If I'm right, we have continued excellence and winning with Rodgers for one, two, or more years. Is it really logical to believe that the Packers brass wants that? Is it anything other than PATHETIC for people in here to want that?

[QBME]

Seriously? I really don't give a shit about a "following". If anybody else is smart enough to see through the media shit, good for them. If people, even most people, are too damn dumb, that's on them too. I see you actually started a thread about this farce - "what are the Packers gonna get?" - like this idiocy is actually gonna happen.

I say again, if I'm wrong, and ya'all are right, the Packers and all us fans enter a dark age of mediocrity and losing. If I'm right, we have continued excellence and winning with Rodgers for one, two, or more years. Is it really logical to believe that the Packers brass wants that? Is it anything other than PATHETIC for people in here to want that?

I typically steer clear of this stuff, but I feel compelled to inquire; do you enjoy listening to Cold Play?

[RashanGary]

I typically steer clear of this stuff, but I feel compelled to inquire; do you enjoy listening to Cold Play?

:lol: :lol:

And that’s no knock on apb. He’s hilarious!

[RashanGary]

Seriously? I really don't give a shit about a "following". If anybody else is smart enough to see through the media shit, good for them. If people, even most people, are too damn dumb, that's on them too. I see you actually started a thread about this farce - "what are the Packers gonna get?" - like this idiocy is actually gonna happen.

I say again, if I'm wrong, and ya'all are right, the Packers and all us fans enter a dark age of mediocrity and losing. If I'm right, we have continued excellence and winning with Rodgers for one, two, or more years. Is it really logical to believe that the Packers brass wants that? Is it anything other than PATHETIC for people in here to want that?

Who says we gonna lose. Love has all the tools. He’s sat behind Rodgers and learned a lot. He’s in the same system going on his fourth year. He’s ready. He’s got a shot!

[Fritz]

This is a draft thread. Should we all move the discussion back on subject together?

So how about that draft, eh?

Looking a little slim in the safety department. I don't see any of them that would warrant the #15 overall, or anywhere in the first round, for that matter. God I hope they don't go down that Savage road again.

[texaspackerbacker]

I typically steer clear of this stuff, but I feel compelled to inquire; do you enjoy listening to Cold Play?

Never have, so I don't know. APB likes them, so probably not. Why?

You want to guide this thread back to the draft? That should be another red letter calendar day for the "ya'all" crowd. If the Packer brass are convinced Rodgers is gonna be gone, they almost certainly will draft a QB - not necessarily early enough to replace Love, but certainly good enough to be a back up and insurance. If they don't draft one, then it looks like Rodgers #1, Love #2 - as I expect.

[Fritz]

Tex, we'll know long before the draft if Rodgers is staying or going or retiring. Unless, of course, he decides to retire, then goes on to hem and haw and drop hints about reconsidering, like some other previous Packer QB.

[texaspackerbacker]

Ya think? I'm betting literally nothing happens before the draft on the Rodgers front - and nothing after either, as he's under contract, and the most likely scenario is he just comes to camp and plays like anybody else who is under contract. I threw a bone to ya'all with the draft thing, but I'm not expecting anything significant QB-wise there either, as I also expect Love back as the back up next season.

[run pMc]

This is a draft thread. Should we all move the discussion back on subject together?

What do you think the odds are they draft a kicker? My choice would be Moody from Michigan, preferably late Day 3.
I expect Gute will backfill the ST troops with R7 picks.

[SudsMcBucky]

We have enough fucking Rodgers threads. Can't we keep the "Draft thread" to JUST draft stuff???

[Fritz]

What do you think the odds are they draft a kicker? My choice would be Moody from Michigan, preferably late Day 3.
I expect Gute will backfill the ST troops with R7 picks.

I don't know how big Moody's leg is, but he's been clutch for Michigan. He'd be worth a seventh round flyer, I would think.

[run pMc]

I don't know how big Moody's leg is, but he's been clutch for Michigan. He'd be worth a seventh round flyer, I would think.

IIRC he's kicked a few 50+ yarders outside.
It's gotta be bigger than Crosby's at this point.

Experience kicking in elements has to matter too.

[Bretsky]

What wide receivers would you be elated with in round one ? In round 2 ? This position has been prioritized on past seasons more and more. Guys at this position do not slip

[HarveyWallbangers]

What wide receivers would you be elated with in round one ? In round 2 ? This position has been prioritized on past seasons more and more. Guys at this position do not slip

I'm a big fan of Zay Flowers, and I'm much higher on Jonathan Mingo than the experts. Grant DuBose is my sleeper. Matt Landers and Bryce Ford-Wheaton are a couple of size/speed guys that will go in the middle rounds.

[run pMc]

Yeah, I like Zay Flowers too, but he's not a fit for GB if you believe in their Ht./Wt. minimums. Jordan Addison is smooth and reminds of a less explosive Olave, probably a late first rounder or early second rounder.
Quentin Johnson is a big dude, but I feel like he's a better athlete than football player.

Not a great WR class this year, although there are some Day 2/Day 3 players (A.T.Perry, Rashee Rice, J.Mingo, D.Wicks) that could be ok. I haven't really seen much about Xavier Hutchinson, who looked ok in R4 to me.

There were some rumors that Gb really liked Jalin Hyatt from TEN. Dude is lightning fast but I'm not sure about that offense he was in...makes it tough to figure out if he's good or just fast. The speed is apparent on film, and if they are looking for another deep threat I could squint and see it maybe... he doesn't really fit the Ht./Wt. minimums either though.

This year there are a lot of smaller WRs, so maybe GB breaks tendencies.

As for JSN, I like his ability to find spots in zones and he's got some fearlessness over the middle, but I don't think he's fast or especially dynamic. Good change of direction and looks like he's going to be a productive pro, but in a Mohammed Sanu kind of way. Not sure that's R1 worthy, but if you need a WR you could talk yourself into reaching for one.

I'm hearing people say there are less than 15 players worthy of a first round grade and after that it's kind of a crapshoot. Some good depth at certain positions, but overall not a lot of top end talent. GB needs to have another very good draft like last year, Gute has his work cut out for him.

[run pMc]

Has anyone heard if Dalton Kincaid's medicals checked out? I haven't seen much of any pro day or draft news lately.
Back injuries are not a good sign and there are plenty of other athletic pass catching TE options, so I've jumped off the Kincaid bandwagon, but I was just curious. I still see him taken in R1 in a lot of mock drafts.
At this point I think Sam LaPorta could be just as good in the right scheme, and could be had a round later.


Regardless, I think Gute is going to almost have to reach at one spot or another for a player. This draft has some nice depth at some spots and a lot of yikes at others. Getting value where he can and bringing in good cheap quality talent will be important. Stacking a few good drafts together would be nice after some of those TT years (and even 2018).

[Fritz]

Has anyone heard if Dalton Kincaid's medicals checked out? I haven't seen much of any pro day or draft news lately.
Back injuries are not a good sign and there are plenty of other athletic pass catching TE options, so I've jumped off the Kincaid bandwagon, but I was just curious. I still see him taken in R1 in a lot of mock drafts.
At this point I think Sam LaPorta could be just as good in the right scheme, and could be had a round later.


Regardless, I think Gute is going to almost have to reach at one spot or another for a player. This draft has some nice depth at some spots and a lot of yikes at others. Getting value where he can and bringing in good cheap quality talent will be important. Stacking a few good drafts together would be nice after some of those TT years (and even 2018).

Did you hurt your back when you did that?

[QBME]

I'm a big fan of Zay Flowers, and I'm much higher on Jonathan Mingo than the experts. Grant DuBose is my sleeper. Matt Landers and Bryce Ford-Wheaton are a couple of size/speed guys that will go in the middle rounds.

I don't know from squat, but definitely not a good NFL name.

[Joemailman]

I don't know from squat, but definitely not a good NFL name.

Actually, it goes rather well with LaFleur.

[Joemailman]

For what it's worth, the consensus Packers pick at https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/mock-drafts/2023/consensus-mock-draft-2023 has gone from Michael Mayer to Lukas Van Ness.

[jklowan]

I am hoping this is the pick Calijah Kancey (https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2023/calijah-kancey) and if we somehow rangle the 13th pick from the Jets Van ness would be nice. Our D-line would be stacked

[MadScientist]

If not in the first round, I hope that the Packers spend a second on a TE who isn't a plodding piece of crap. They desperately need to get better at that position.

[run pMc]

I could see them going with Van Ness as the pick. Young, has physical tools, very raw though. He's a project to develop and all he does is bull rush. GB likes bigger edges vs. the smaller bendy edges (e.g. Rashan Gary vs. Brian Burns) so Van Ness makes some sense. I like the Foskey kid from ND - I think he can be a worthy successor to Preston Smith - can play the run, set an edge, good athlete, good college production, plus as your #3-4 EDGE he loves playing ST, which is where he'll likely see a number of snaps. Less of a project than Van Ness: higher floor, slightly lower ceiling.

Lots of people love the Kancey kid and compare him to Aaron Donald, but I'm not sure he has the same strength and arm length to do what Donald does. He's undersized but very quick. At 280 where do you play him? EDGE? DL? He's a weird fit for Barry's defense and I don't think he'd know what to do with him. I also think a 6' 280 DL playing over the G is going to get run over at the pro level. (Think Derrick Henry running behind his RG straight at the kid.) I think a team like Philly would know what to do with him, especially if they are playing a 4-3 and they can have a big dude like Jordan Davis eat up space and keep him 1-1, or if you only play him on passing downs. If you only do the latter, do you want to spend a top 15 pick on a DPR who sees the field for 15-20 snaps a game at most? I'd think about it in R3, but R1 is too rich for me.

[run pMc]

If not in the first round, I hope that the Packers spend a second on a TE who isn't a plodding piece of crap. They desperately need to get better at that position.

Agree. I think they take one by end of Day 2, and grab a second one on Day 3. All they have are practice squad guys, Tyler Davis, and Deguara under contract. They will restock at TE simply because they need capable bodies and this is a good draft for them so I'd expect them to take at least one.

[Deputy Nutz]

I think the TE position has some interesting prospects. I think you could get two good ones some where in the first 4 rounds. Darnell Washington is interesting because he is a clone of Mercedes Lewis. I think you can figure out a pass catching option maybe sooner or later in the draft but Washington's combination of size and athleticism will force some team to reach on him, I am thinking somewhere in the second round. He is a game changer in the run game.

I feel like TE is a position where you have the top 3 or 4 guys in Tier one and you are just trying to get a piece of it and not be the first one to pull the trigger on them.

[MadScientist]

I feel like TE is a position where you have the top 3 or 4 guys in Tier one and you are just trying to get a piece of it and not be the first one to pull the trigger on them.

That kind of thinking gets you left out in the cold. As soon as one goes, the rest in that tier will go quickly, so you may as well be the first to pick one if you can. Remember those receiver heavy drafts where the first round tier was gone by the Packers first pick, and the second round tier was gone by their next pick, leaving the Packers with no receivers in a draft full of them.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Luke Musgrave = 6'6' 253, 4.61 40, 1.58 10, 36" vertical, 10'5" broad, 4.41 shuttle, 7.09 3 cone, 19 bench
Travis Kelce = 6'5" 255, 4.61 40, 1.61 10, 35" vertical, 10'4" broad, 4.42 shuttle, 7.09 3 cone

Crazy how similar they are physically.

[MadScientist]

Luke Musgrave = 6'6' 253, 4.61 40, 1.58 10, 36" vertical, 10'5" broad, 4.41 shuttle, 7.09 3 cone, 19 bench
Travis Kelce = 6'5" 255, 4.61 40, 1.61 10, 35" vertical, 10'4" broad, 4.42 shuttle, 7.09 3 cone

Crazy how similar they are physically.

I'd be happy if the Packers get Kelce clone.

[Deputy Nutz]

Tier Two isn't so fucking bad either. Even Tier 3 has some interesting prospects that could hit big after a couple of years, but the Packers sort of need a guy or two that can play some meaningful snaps in 2023

[Fritz]

I don't know, Nutz. I think I'm ready to write off the upcoming season as Love's baptismal season. So I'd be okay with them drafting a guy with high upside who is going to take a couple years to get there.

[Deputy Nutz]

Fritz you absolutely could go that route. I would like to see the Packers unload Bak's contract then, and any other high end guys unless they restructure their contract

[run pMc]

Fritz you absolutely could go that route. I would like to see the Packers unload Bak's contract then, and any other high end guys unless they restructure their contract

They've redone Bahktiari's contract for this upcoming season, I think they want to make sure Love's blindside is covered. After that, who knows. Wouldn't be shocked if they drafted a OT to be 69's successor.
Gute likes his athletes, so I wouldn't be shocked if they go for a high upside guy at TE. Most of the TEs inside the consensus board's top 100 did very well at the combine. Unlike Jace Sternberger, they all have pretty good RAS scores.
I expect them to bring in two TEs. If I had to randomly guess I'd go with Darnell Washington and Davis Allen.

[call_me_ishmael]

That dude from Iowa is Taylor made for Wisconsin and the Packers.

[run pMc]

That dude from Iowa is Taylor made for Wisconsin and the Packers.

Sam LaPorta.
I think he would be a decent Tonyan replacement. Good receiver, good athlete, not the best blocker but will give effort. Much better after the catch than Tonyan, but so is a statue.
Read where a scout was saying that for TEs it's tough to break 4-5 TDs in a rookie season, and it's less about where you were drafted and more about the opportunities you get on your team. The TE depth chart as it stands should provide lots of opportunity for any TEs they bring in.

[run pMc]

Packers brought Darnell Washington in as one of their 30 visits.

Of the 30 players on last year's visit list, I believe 9 of them ended up spending time on the roster, either via draft or UDFA signing.
Pretty strong indication they have interest in a player.

[Sparkey]

Sam LaPorta.
I think he would be a decent Tonyan replacement. Good receiver, good athlete, not the best blocker but will give effort. Much better after the catch than Tonyan, but so is a statue.
Read where a scout was saying that for TEs it's tough to break 4-5 TDs in a rookie season, and it's less about where you were drafted and more about the opportunities you get on your team. The TE depth chart as it stands should provide lots of opportunity for any TEs they bring in.

I would hope the Packers strive for more than a replacement of Tonyan.

[run pMc]

I would hope the Packers strive for more than a replacement of Tonyan.

Fair point. I probably should have said 2020 thru pre-injury 2021 Tonyan. He was pretty good then.
LaPorta is a good receiver and try-hard blocker, he ran a 4.59 40 but I'm not sure his football speed is that fast. He's fast enough to run up the seam and do a lot of the things Tonyan did, and eventually better. He can break tackles, so he has that over Tonyan already.
One thing going against him is I think he measured in at about 6-3 245, which is basically a little bigger than Deguara. He's almost certainly a Day 2 pick, but GB probably would want a bigger dude at TE. 6-3 isn't a huge mismatch in coverage against a S or LB. Tonyan was 6-5 but LaPorta is a better athlete.

[run pMc]

Packers brought Darnell Washington in as one of their 30 visits.

Of the 30 players on last year's visit list, I believe 9 of them ended up spending time on the roster, either via draft or UDFA signing.
Pretty strong indication they have interest in a player.

Packers brought in Iowa State Edge Will McDonald IV for one of their 30 visits. Love the burst and long arms, but he's small compared to the big dudes they usually like such as Gary or Preston. ISU's D is a little different which could make him a weird eval also.
No harm bringing him in for a visit.

[Fritz]

run, I read also on ACME that they think the guy doesn't use his hands well and that he's not very aggressive and physical. I don't know. Just what they said.

[Deputy Nutz]

McDonald is a hometown kid from Waukesha WI. He is really long, mostly a 5 tech end in a 3-3-5 defense that didn't do much to make life easy on him as a premier pass rusher in college. He is the all time sack leader in the Big 12 and he accomplished that mostly by defeating double teams his senior year. Good kid, I would say overall he is a bit raw when it comes to being able to be multiple on defense. Not a nickel edge at this point, and has not been asked to play coverage ever. Packers like big edges that are really closer to defensive ends. I hope the best for McDonald but I wouldn't say he is a great fit for GB's defense and that's not his fault.

[Fritz]

So that makes you wonder...is Joe Barely pitching for a slightly different kind of guy now? Is Guter trying to play mindfuck with the rest of the GM's by bringing in a guy he has no intention of drafting? Or are they thinking he can sit behind Gary and Smith and Engabare this year, lift some weights, learn to play coverage, and katy-bar-the-door by year three, when Love is contending for an MVP?

[Joemailman]

So that makes you wonder...is Joe Barely pitching for a slightly different kind of guy now? Is Guter trying to play mindfuck with the rest of the GM's by bringing in a guy he has no intention of drafting? Or are they thinking he can sit behind Gary and Smith and Engabare this year, lift some weights, learn to play coverage, and katy-bar-the-door by year three, when Love is contending for an MVP?

This guy is probably a 3-4 round pick. I could see the Packers taking him as a situational pass rusher.

[Fritz]

I thought I'd read he was a second-round type of guy. Since the Packers suck at the third round, maybe they ought to take a flyer on this guy in that round and see if they can break their losing streak in the third round.

[run pMc]

A lot of draft boards have him as a R2 pick. That could change or there could be a medical flag causing him to drop, but I think he's a Day 2 pick for someone. It's possible they see him as a 3rd down DPR as a rookie. Platoon him with Enagbare or something maybe. You shouldn't draft players early and not play them. I really don't see him as a scheme fit for GB. I also think Joe Barry is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so who knows. Maybe they decide to get ONE guy against their type to have as a change of pace guy.

[Joemailman]

I thought I'd read he was a second-round type of guy. Since the Packers suck at the third round, maybe they ought to take a flyer on this guy in that round and see if they can break their losing streak in the third round.

It's possible. Draft Network has him in the 80's, Pro Football Network in the 120's. But https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2023/will-mcdonald-iv has him getting drafted in the 40's. His stock seems to be rising.