Official 2023 NFL Draft Thread

[HarveyWallbangers]

McDonald is listed as round 1-3 by the six sites that I follow closely. Most have him in round 2. I don't see him getting out of round 2--even though I doubt the Packers will take him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

McDonald is a hometown kid from Waukesha WI. He is really long, mostly a 5 tech end in a 3-3-5 defense that didn't do much to make life easy on him as a premier pass rusher in college. He is the all time sack leader in the Big 12 and he accomplished that mostly by defeating double teams his senior year. Good kid, I would say overall he is a bit raw when it comes to being able to be multiple on defense. Not a nickel edge at this point, and has not been asked to play coverage ever. Packers like big edges that are really closer to defensive ends. I hope the best for McDonald but I wouldn't say he is a great fit for GB's defense and that's not his fault.

Nutz, have you looked at the OL and DL in this class? I'd like your opinion on some guys--since you seem to have a good bead on the lines.

Joe Tippmann - Schmitz looked the best on tape for me, but he tested as an average athlete and he's an older project. Is Tippman good enough to go ahead of Schmitz?
Ricky Stromberg - I think he's underrated
Tyler Steen - He played OT, but I like the way he projects to OG. Most of his limitations will be masked at OG.

Two sleepers that I like:
Chandler Zavala
Jordan McFadden

DL

Mazi Smith
Jerrod Clark

[Fritz]

Nutz, have you looked at the OL and DL in this class? I'd like your opinion on some guys--since you seem to have a good bead on the lines.

Joe Tippmann - Schmitz looked the best on tape for me, but he tested as an average athlete and he's an older project. Is Tippman good enough to go ahead of Schmitz?
Ricky Stromberg - I think he's underrated
Tyler Steen - He played OT, but I like the way he projects to OG. Most of his limitations will be masked at OG.

Two sleepers that I like:
Chandler Zavala
Jordan McFadden

DL

Mazi Smith
Jerrod Clark


For real there's a prospect named "Schmitz"? And you spelled it correctly, twice?

I don't follow Michigan football so much any more, so I can't say much about Mazi Smith except that he got treated like the vast majority of elite college football/basketball players when he was found to have, I believe, a handgun in his car when he was stopped by the police. Which is to say, the University intervened on his behalf, and he received preferential treatment.

[HarveyWallbangers]

For real there's a prospect named "Schmitz"? And you spelled it correctly, twice?

I don't follow Michigan football so much any more, so I can't say much about Mazi Smith except that he got treated like the vast majority of elite college football/basketball players when he was found to have, I believe, a handgun in his car when he was stopped by the police. Which is to say, the University intervened on his behalf, and he received preferential treatment.

What is illegal about having a handgun in his car? Did he get the gun illegally? I'm not sure what the laws are in Michigan. As long as you pass the background check here in North Dakota, there's nothing illegal about carrying a gun in your car. Or was he the one who had applied for his concealed carry, but didn't wait to get approved before carrying a concealed weapon? I don't blame athletes for carrying protection. There is no doubt that in some areas they are targets (money).

[Fritz]

What is illegal about having a handgun in his car? Did he get the gun illegally? I'm not sure what the laws are in Michigan. As long as you pass the background check here in North Dakota, there's nothing illegal about carrying a gun in your car. Or was he the one who had applied for his concealed carry, but didn't wait to get approved before carrying a concealed weapon? I don't blame athletes for carrying protection. There is no doubt that in some areas they are targets (money).

No concealed-weapon permit, pulled over with a Glock in his truck.

https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/michigan-lineman-mazi-smith-gets-probation-in-gun-case/

[HarveyWallbangers]

No concealed-weapon permit, pulled over with a Glock in his truck.

https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/michigan-lineman-mazi-smith-gets-probation-in-gun-case/

Yeah, I think he was the one in the process of getting one. Wouldn't really worry me much, but we don't have a law here requiring residents to secure their gun in a vehicle. Non-residents do though.

[Fritz]

I'm not worried about that as far as not drafting him because of it. I was more just grumbling about the hyopocrisy of college football, specifically at the University of Jim Harbaugh. But I don't watch much college football, so I don't know how good Mazi Smith is. I'd take your word in the guy.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I know the guy is highly athletic and looks good on tape, but his production wasn't stellar. I just wonder if this is another Rashan Gary situation (another highly athletic, good tape, low production Michigan DL).

[Fritz]

I know the guy is highly athletic and looks good on tape, but his production wasn't stellar. I just wonder if this is another Rashan Gary situation (another highly athletic, good tape, low production Michigan DL).

I am highly unqualified to say much on that, as I was so very wrong about Rashan Gary.

[run pMc]

Big, strong dude, pretty athletic. Would not want to be hit by him at full speed.

I think he's ok but not sure how he fits with GB.

He's an interior DT type, not a DE and don't know what they'd do with him since they essentially have 3 guys under contract already who can play at the nose with Clark, Slaton and Ford. Maybe if Slaton didn't show anything you take him and push Clark out, but ol' TJ looked ok to me. IMO they need more of a 5-tech type, but then again with Joe Barry who knows what they plan to do... and they mostly trot out 2 DL and play big edges anyway. They need another DL for depth and if they don't sign a cheap vet, they either take a falling guy like Breese or wait until Day 3.

Whatever they do, they have to rush the passer better, and they have to stop the run better. Weren't very good at either last year, especially after Gary's ACL injury.

[Fritz]

run, are you talking about Will McDonald? I thought he was an - as everybody likes to call the position now - EDGE.

[RashanGary]

run, are you talking about Will McDonald? I thought he was an - as everybody likes to call the position now - EDGE.

I think he’s talking about mazi smith

[run pMc]

yes, sorry, Mazi Smith is a big dude and a DL
Will McDonald is about 90 pounds lighter and an EDGE. Not sure either are fits for GB, but I don't think Joe Barry is a good DC either.

[Fritz]

Got it.

You know, as I understand the defense as the Packers have constructed it, you do, as you said, rush two down linemen and then you have your edge guys as basically defensive linemen, too. I think the original idea was that you could mask who was coming - which edge guy? Both? A dude from the middle while edge guy drops into coverage? But the way the Packers play, it's predictable as hell: two down linemen and the edge rushers rush the passer most of the time. So there is no element of confusing the offense.

Is Wyatt a 3-tech guy for sure? Or are they kind of interchangeable? I'd like to see them get someone to play down lineman who can really, really complement Clark (and hopefully Wyatt). You get that guy, you've improved your entire defense, period.

[run pMc]

I think their defense is fairly predictable and that's part of the problem. They rush four, drop into zone, and either the other team dogwalks them down the field or screws up.
Sometimes they mix up their zones, maybe they blitz a 5th guy like Devondre or Quay, but if your QB can tell the difference between Cover-2, 3, 4 and 6 you're probably ok. Their pass rush suffered without Rashan Gary, adding more juice there could force QB mistakes.

They also need to stop Pettine-ing their corners and playing so far off. Even if you are bailing into a zone, don't give the WR an 8 yard cushion. It's maddening to see them do that on 3rd and 6.

Final criticism of the D: it also requires good tackling, and they were much better at that in 2021 than in 2022. Waayyy too many missed and broken tackles last year. If you're expecting your players to drop into zones, and close and tackle the ball carrier short of the sticks, fine.... but coach them to do it. The way NFL teams practice often don't seem to promote good tackling, even if they prevent injuries.

Wyatt is a 3-Tech. Clark has shown he can play all over: nose, 3T. Slaton is a 1T or Nose type. If they want someone to play the Lowry role, they need more of a 5-tech body type -- Lowry was 6'5 300. All their guys are squatter than that now. Maybe they don't need a 5T, but most 3-4 based teams used to have one, it's possible that role is evolving out of the game with all the passing. I'm not a OL/DL guru, there are others here who know tons more than I do, but that's just what I've seen.
I suspect if they deployed lighter EDGE players they'd want a 5-tech type who can help stop the run, and using big 265+ pound guys like Preston and Rashan are why they just go with NT and 3T.

[Fritz]

Can anyone well-versed in this stuff help run and me understand if the Packers could use a good 5-tech or if that position is being phased out?

And I wonder why they tackled so poorly after Barry's first year. Devondre Campbell especially fell off a cliff.

[run pMc]

I think it's more likely that the 5 tech DE is not really used much these days. With GB lining up two 265+ Edge defenders outside of Kenny or Slaton at NT and Wyatt (or Kenny again) at 3T they probably won't and perhaps don't need one.

For goal line or short yardage you could probably just line every big DL you have to clog things, but I wonder if not using a 5T will impact their run defense. I think Lowry somewhat filled this role in the past, but he wasn't great at run defense either, so maybe it's not a loss.
(No offense to Lowry, I think he's a backup player who was pushed into a starting role because they had nobody better.)

I've asked this before... do we know if Jerry Montgomery is a good DL coach? Maybe it's me, but it seems like they've drafted some dudes there and the success rate has not been super high.

[run pMc]

Speaking of DL, I hear Jalen Carter didn't exactly wow at his pro day.

I think it unlikely he drops out of the top 10, but if he's there at 15 and you're Gute would you take him?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Speaking of DL, I hear Jalen Carter didn't exactly wow at his pro day.

I think it unlikely he drops out of the top 10, but if he's there at 15 and you're Gute would you take him?

Yes

[Fritz]

That would be a hell yes in my book.

It'd be Warren Sapp 2.0.

[HarveyWallbangers]

More players to add to "my guys" list. I watched 2-4 games of all of the offensive players. I've watched about half of the DL and half of the EDGE players. I'm really hoping I can get through all of the defensive players.

QB Clayton Tune
TE Luke Schoonmaker
OL Peter Skoronski
OL Nick Saldiveri
OG Jon Gaines
DT Mazi Smith
DT Keeanu Benton

Previous:

RB Roschon Johnson
WR Jonathan Mingo
WR Grant DuBose
IOL Ricky Stromberg
LB Jack Campbell
CB D.J. Turner
S Jason Taylor

Also, here are some midround guys that I think are fits for what we do:

FB/RB/TE Hunter Luepke of North Dakota State is made for the MLF offense--possibly a better Deguara. He tested really well at his Pro Day (with a RAS of 9.7+).
WR Matt Landers
WR Bryce Ford-Wheaton
OT Earl Bostick
OG Braeden Daniels

[RashanGary]

Thanks Harv!! Over the years I thought you couldn’t possibly be any more on point than the rest of us, but I’ve seen your guys tear it up year after year and now I look forward to the HW draft content!

[run pMc]

Harv,

I'm a fan of Jon Gaines. Good feet, seems like a pretty good athlete. I think he'd be a good add, and feel like he's a little under the radar.
GB has a lot of OL players, but they need to sort out who is going to play where. They had problems being watertight on the IOL last year.
Bakhtiari's cap hit is $40M next year and they save 21M by cutting or trading him, so I think he's likely gone and they'll need a replacement there.

Was surprised by Matt Landers, I didn't think I'd like him. He reminds me of MVS... tall, lanky, fast. He'll be there on Day 3.
Luepke will also, he's like a Juszczyk clone to me and agree he'd be a good fit and possible upgrade from DeGuara.

I really like the OSU LT Paris Johnson, he's so smooth and looks like a franchise LT. He's gotta be going top 10 though.

I've seen some mocks where Myles Murphy winds up at 15 - Thoughts? If it comes down to Murphy, JSN, or Broderick Jones at 15, which do you prefer?

[Joemailman]

Harv,

I'm a fan of Jon Gaines. Good feet, seems like a pretty good athlete. I think he'd be a good add, and feel like he's a little under the radar.
GB has a lot of OL players, but they need to sort out who is going to play where. They had problems being watertight on the IOL last year.
Bakhtiari's cap hit is $40M next year and they save 21M by cutting or trading him, so I think he's likely gone and they'll need a replacement there.

Was surprised by Matt Landers, I didn't think I'd like him. He reminds me of MVS... tall, lanky, fast. He'll be there on Day 3.
Luepke will also, he's like a Juszczyk clone to me and agree he'd be a good fit and possible upgrade from DeGuara.

I really like the OSU LT Paris Johnson, he's so smooth and looks like a franchise LT. He's gotta be going top 10 though.

I've seen some mocks where Myles Murphy winds up at 15 - Thoughts? If it comes down to Murphy, JSN, or Broderick Jones at 15, which do you prefer?

There have been reports that the reason the Jets really don't want to trade the #13 pick is that they want to go OT in 1st round. Johnson might be their guy. Now that the Bears have traded back to #9 though, some people think he might be the Bears pick. https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2023/paris-johnson-jr

[run pMc]

One person's take:
https://twitter.com/jrezash/status/1640803143788253188/photo/1

Not bad, I think a lot of these are players GB is interested in. I'll be watching the 30-visit list; if history repeats they will draft about 25% of them.

[run pMc]

There have been reports that the reason the Jets really don't want to trade the #13 pick is that they want to go OT in 1st round. Johnson might be their guy. Now that the Bears have traded back to #9 though, some people think he might be the Bears pick. https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2023/paris-johnson-jr

I think the Bears and Jets going OL make sense, the top guys will go fast and their lines have bigger holes than a team like GB has. Rodgers could get hurt behind the Jets OL as it is, and Fields has been a sack waiting to happen. Bears are doing what they should have done last year in actually giving Fields supporting players around him so they can figure out if he's good or not.

GB has at least serviceable players at all OL spots, it's the depth (and future OL) they could improve. Nothing personal, but I've seen enough of Jake Hanson to know I don't want him playing meaningful snaps.

I wouldn't want to trade the #13 pick if I'm the Jets either. I wouldn't even consider it unless Rodgers either agreed to redo his contract or flat out promised he'd play two years. Why give up a high pick to take on that contract for a one year rental? A contract that is cost-controlled for 5 years for a potentially good player is not nothing. I think a R2 this year and next gets it done, and some think even that might be a lot for one year of Rodgers.

Anyway, I watched Paris Johnson and Broderick Jones, and there's a big difference. Johnson looks ready to start, Jones is a good athlete but he has a way to go with his fundamentals. He probably needs a year to work on his pass pro especially and then he could be really good... so I could see GB picking him as the heir apparent to Bahktiari. I don't know how they will keep DB next year with his cap hit and a Rashan Gary extension.
https://twitter.com/KenIngalls/status/1641475267687219200?cxt=HHwWgICw4ePD2MctAAAA

I think 2025 is when GB gets back into having cap space to spend in free agency. Just in time to start working on extensions for Watson and Doubs ;)

[jklowan]

The safeties that I think would work well in GB are Chris Smith II and Ji'Ayir Brown, hoping we can get at least one of them if not both, The DL line players I have my eye on are Colby Wooden & Karl Brooks. The TE I want is Luke Musgrave as many here have pointed out his numbers are freaky good and the OT's I'd want are Blake Freeland or Jaxson Kirkland.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Harv,

I'm a fan of Jon Gaines. Good feet, seems like a pretty good athlete. I think he'd be a good add, and feel like he's a little under the radar.
GB has a lot of OL players, but they need to sort out who is going to play where. They had problems being watertight on the IOL last year.
Bakhtiari's cap hit is $40M next year and they save 21M by cutting or trading him, so I think he's likely gone and they'll need a replacement there.

Was surprised by Matt Landers, I didn't think I'd like him. He reminds me of MVS... tall, lanky, fast. He'll be there on Day 3.
Luepke will also, he's like a Juszczyk clone to me and agree he'd be a good fit and possible upgrade from DeGuara.

I really like the OSU LT Paris Johnson, he's so smooth and looks like a franchise LT. He's gotta be going top 10 though.

I've seen some mocks where Myles Murphy winds up at 15 - Thoughts? If it comes down to Murphy, JSN, or Broderick Jones at 15, which do you prefer?

Probably Murphy--although I didn't love him. Then JSN and then Jones. Jones is a tier down from Skoronski and Johnson for me. And that's coming from a guy who loved Andrew Thomas of UGA when he came out.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Round one I like Johnston, Mayer, Smith-Njigba in that order. I don’t think an OT is a bad idea either.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Mock draft

1- Johnston Wr
2- Dexter De
3- LaPorta Te
4- Mingo Wr
5- Morris De/edge
5- Mallory Te
7- Brooks De/edge
7- Galvin Ot
7- Thomas V Cb

[run pMc]

Probably Murphy--although I didn't love him. Then JSN and then Jones. Jones is a tier down from Skoronski and Johnson for me. And that's coming from a guy who loved Andrew Thomas of UGA when he came out.

Yeah, when I first saw Murphy I thought he was a top 10 guy, now I'm not so sure I'd take him at 15. He's got size, length, athleticism, but he played with his hand in the dirt and always from the same side. I'm not sure about turning him into the next Preston Smith, but he supposedly is a good run defender.

Agree Jones is a tier down. I'll have to look at Dawand Jones and Darnell Wright - they might be good RT prospects and then move Tom to LT.

Current guys I'm looking at are DL Gervon Dexter and Moro Ojomo. I like Ojomo a little better but both are fun and I wouldn't be sad if GB drafted either one (after Day 1, of course). Ojomo has some violence in his hands, and Dexter is just a huge athletic dude who is already as good as Lowry was lol.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I have Ojomo higher than Dexter as well. Deep sleeper at DL is Scott Matlock. Had a good all-star Bowl season, but didn’t get invited to the combine. Reminds me a bit of Dean Lowry.

[call_me_ishmael]

Harvey how do you feel about my sleeper Hendon Henderson?

[bobblehead]

Based on where roster need meets draft depth the obvious move is to pick EDGE, TE...maybe CB (assuming we have 2 seconds).

Based on Gutes history he will take a WR, S, then finally an EDGE in a draft that is weak at WR and S.

[run pMc]

The WRs in this class don't really impress me much. JSN seems like he will just get open in soft spots of a zone, which could be valuable to GB for keeping chains moving or in the red zone. I don't see any speed.
Q.Johnson is interesting but I get "more athlete than football player" vibes. He could be useful in any offense, he might be discount AJ Green, or he might just be meh.

There are probably some WR3-4 types and while I think they need help at WR, I don't think they need to take one before R3. I think they'll boost their receiving corps via TE (which needs even more help).

I've heard they like Jalin Hyatt, but are they just playing him in the slot for go routes? Dude has real speed and could be fun, but I thought GB likes bigger dudes and IDK if they want a DeSean Jackson clone.
I saw they are bringing in Dontayvion Wicks in for one of their 30 visits. He's ok except for the drops. I realize drops are something that are usually easily correctable, receivers with the dropsies scare me after the J'Mon Moore experience. He's Day 3 guy, I'd take Mingo instead.

I think Gute will play the board and frustrate us. He almost has to draft a WR or 2, same with TE, and probably a safety as well since we don't really have anyone outside of Savage who has been a full time safety for more than a few games. My money in R1 is OL or Edge.

[run pMc]

Harvey how do you feel about my sleeper Hendon Henderson?

Never heard of him.
There's a QB named Hendon Hooker from UTenn that is 11 months older than Jordan Love. He's coming off an ACL tear, maybe you mean him?

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2023/4/3/23668522/2023-nfl-draft-hendon-hooker-tennessee-hardest-projection-in-the-class-quarterbacks-scouting

[Joemailman]

It's going to interesting to see how early Hooker goes. A lot of people think he's as talented as any QB in the draft. How much does age and the injury cause him to slide? https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2023/hendon-hooker has him as a likely 2nd round pick. He tore his ACL in November. At the very least he'll miss a lot of offseason work this year. Might not be ready to really play until 2024 when he'll be 26 years old.

[red]

yay, i was waiting for someone to bring up hooker to prove my point from before

hooker will probably go in the first not because he's talented, but because he is just the next best QB in the draft, even though he should be nowhere near the first round

[run pMc]

It's going to interesting to see how early Hooker goes. A lot of people think he's as talented as any QB in the draft. How much does age and the injury cause him to slide? https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2023/hendon-hooker has him as a likely 2nd round pick. He tore his ACL in November. At the very least he'll miss a lot of offseason work this year. Might not be ready to really play until 2024 when he'll be 26 years old.

Yeah, and while I agree he is an interesting prospect, his age and injury history work against him. He'll need time to learn an offense, and missing offseason work will hurt his development. You're basically looking at a 26-27 year old QB before he sees the field, that's practically Brandon Wheedon territory. Reports are he was a great interview and just ditched his crutches, so he'd likely be off the PUP in September and might get some late training camp snaps, but he'll be behind everyone.

GB will draft a QB, but I'd rather they spend their early round picks on players who are likely to see the field and make contributions this year.

[run pMc]

yay, i was waiting for someone to bring up hooker to prove my point from before

hooker will probably go in the first not because he's talented, but because he is just the next best QB in the draft, even though he should be nowhere near the first round

QBs with any semblance of talent get drafted, and usually overdrafted. I doubt CJ Stroud is the best football player in the draft, but if he (or Bryce Young, etc.) pans out he provides the most value. A franchise-level QB provides a disproportionate amount of value because of NFL passing offenses and the rules.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of Hendon Hooker. Do not want him in R1 or R2 for GB - prefer a different player and at a different position. If JL stinks they can draft a QB higher next year, but this year they need to give JL a chance and that means surrounding him with players who can help him. Hendon Hooker doesn't.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm a pretty big fan of Hooker. Reminds me of Jordan Love a little bit. He has all of the talent in the world. Good size, accuracy, arm strength, release, and footwork. Probably slightly more mobile than Love. Good kid, great leader. Very productive. Threw for 58 TDs and 5 interceptions in two years in the SEC--while missing 3 games. Ran for another 1000 yards and 10 TDs. I've been on him as a 2nd round pick for awhile, and I don't think it's crazy for a good team at the end of round 1 to take a chance on him. I know the Tennessee offense is funky, so there's a projection that is involved, but just because he hasn't doesn't mean he can't. The age and ACL do concern me, but a team could get 8-10 good years out of an older QB nowadays. Without the age and injury, he's probably QB3 for me in this draft. I think he might have the most physical skills in this draft. I'm not just talking athleticism. That would be Richardson. I'm talking size, mobility, accuracy, and arm strength.

[Fritz]

Harv,
You do as much or more work on the draft as anyone in Packerrats, so I tend to take your word. I'm hoping the Packers will, too. I think you have a pretty good track record. Certainly better than mine. Forgot what you thought about the safeties, though. Seems like a super weak class to me. I can't understand why anyone thinks that Alabama guy is much good - Branch? - though he tends to get rated first.

[run pMc]

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2023/4/4/23670455/2023-nfl-draft-packers-to-bring-in-tennessee-qb-hendon-hooker-for-visit

Well I guess I better shut up lol
They're probably bringing him in to check on his knee, as well as his mental makeup. That Briles-style offense doesn't really translate to the pros, but it's possible he can transcend it and be a good player.
I'd look at him R3 but not earlier, they pretty much throw picks from that round away anyway.

Might have to go back and watch him more closely, I recall him making some good throws but also some ugly ones too. I could see him being a QB4. I paid more attention to Hyatt and Tillman, some people like Tillman but I didn't see a lot there. Hyatt is a burner, he gives me DeSean Jackson vibes and could be a lot of fun but I don't know if GB and MLF would want him or use him properly. 15 is too rich for me but if he's there at 45 I'd think about it. Hyatt + Watson would be scary for some secondaries.

Richardson is an interesting one. He scares the hell out of me because some people have him as a top 5 prospect. His accuracy and fundamentals are high school level, but if you gave him some time to learn and gave him some good coaching by Year 3 he could be Lamar Jackson or prime Cam Newton. Super high ceiling, super low floor. If you're picking at end of R1 and you can sit him I'd think about it, but there's no way I'd take him if I'm the Texans (for example) and throw him to the wolves. For example: with all the murmurs about Dak in Dallas, maybe Jerrah picks this kid and lets him sit for a year or two and replaces Dak after that.

[run pMc]

Harv,
You do as much or more work on the draft as anyone in Packerrats, so I tend to take your word. I'm hoping the Packers will, too. I think you have a pretty good track record. Certainly better than mine. Forgot what you thought about the safeties, though. Seems like a super weak class to me. I can't understand why anyone thinks that Alabama guy is much good - Branch? - though he tends to get rated first.

Branch played the 'Star' position at Bama, which is basically like playing a slot corner/3rd safety. He subbed in and out a lot and wasn't really even a starting safety. Jordan Battle and another guy I forget were the safeties.
Branch is a smart instinctive player and a meh testing athlete. I think he's good but he's not what GB needs and i'd pass on him at 15.

I like Jordan Battle better actually. I think he can do what Barry would want his safeties to do. They have Nixon and Savage who can play in the slot, they don't really need another slot guy, especially since they have to figure out the Rasul/Stokes problem too.
They need safeties, and they don't really have an even average-to-above average full time safety on the roster right now. Worse is they have no cap space, and on top of that this safety class isn't the best. Lots of them tested poorly at the combine... there were several Edge defenders who ran better than most of the safeties. I think they need help but wouldn't be shocked if they just try to coach up the players they have and try to make do. Better off spending draft capital on good players vs. available ones.

There is the possibility they could draft a CB who tested well and play them at safety, but I'm not sure who that would be (Jay Ward?) and most corners aren't known for being physical enough to play safety.

[HarveyWallbangers]

More players to add to "my guys" list. I watched 2-4 games of all of the offensive players. I've watched about half of the DL and half of the EDGE players. I'm really hoping I can get through all of the defensive players.

QB Clayton Tune
TE Luke Schoonmaker
OL Peter Skoronski
OL Nick Saldiveri
OG Jon Gaines
DT Mazi Smith
DT Keeanu Benton

Previous:

RB Roschon Johnson
WR Jonathan Mingo
WR Grant DuBose
IOL Ricky Stromberg
LB Jack Campbell
CB D.J. Turner
S Jason Taylor

Also, here are some midround guys that I think are fits for what we do:

FB/RB/TE Hunter Luepke of North Dakota State is made for the MLF offense--possibly a better Deguara. He tested really well at his Pro Day (with a RAS of 9.7+).
WR Matt Landers
WR Bryce Ford-Wheaton
OT Earl Bostick
OG Braeden Daniels

Saldiveri met virtually with the Packers.

https://twitter.com/JustinM_NFL/status/1643633896502722561

[run pMc]

Don't know much about Saldiveri, seems like he'd likely slide inside to G or be a swing G/T on the right side. 9.1 (incomplete) RAS, so he's athletic. Is described as being a good fit in a zone scheme.
I bet they want to see him run a 3-cone and put him thru some drills. Early Day 3 pick?

I haven't really watched many OL yet but feel like I should. They always take a couple, but this year with so many OL guys already under contract I wonder if that continues. I suppose the offseason workouts starting Apr 17 will inform their decisions - if Sean Rhyan looks better, etc. Feels like they have a lot of players, but I'm not sure how many good (playable) players they have.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Don't know much about Saldiveri, seems like he'd likely slide inside to G or be a swing G/T on the right side. 9.1 (incomplete) RAS, so he's athletic. Is described as being a good fit in a zone scheme.
I bet they want to see him run a 3-cone and put him thru some drills. Early Day 3 pick?

I haven't really watched many OL yet but feel like I should. They always take a couple, but this year with so many OL guys already under contract I wonder if that continues. I suppose the offseason workouts starting Apr 17 will inform their decisions - if Sean Rhyan looks better, etc. Feels like they have a lot of players, but I'm not sure how many good (playable) players they have.

He's a guy I watched before the combine. I really liked him, but I didn't think he was real athletic. I was pleasantly surprised he tested so well. I think he can play RT, OG--and apparently teams think he can play OC too. I tend to overrate measurables, but he and John Michael Schmitz are two guys that I just really liked from their tape. Schmitz was average in testing, but I still have him as my top IOL. I have Saldiveri in my top 10 at OL. I'd probably take him over Blake Freeland--who tested uber athletic.

[sharpe1027]

WR depth is too thin. They really need more quality behind Doubs and Watson.

[Joemailman]

WR depth is too thin. They really need more quality behind Doubs and Watson.

I think you'll see a FA signing or two after the draft. And a WR could be part of the Rodgers trade. And they'll draft at least one.

[Joemailman]

He's a guy I watched before the combine. I really liked him, but I didn't think he was real athletic. I was pleasantly surprised he tested so well. I think he can play RT, OG--and apparently teams think he can play OC too. I tend to overrate measurables, but he and John Michael Schmitz are two guys that I just really liked from their tape. Schmitz was average in testing, but I still have him as my top IOL. I have Saldiveri in my top 10 at OL. I'd probably take him over Blake Freeland--who tested uber athletic.

Draft Network recently interviewed Saldiveri. https://thedraftnetwork.com/nick-saldiveri-nfl-draft-2023-interview/

[sharpe1027]

I think you'll see a FA signing or two after the draft. And a WR could be part of the Rodgers trade. And they'll draft at least one.

Agreed that the draft is not the only way they plug that hole, but it's a pretty big need.

[Joemailman]

Is Jaxon Smith-Njigba Great Jennings?

Looks silky smooth.

https://twitter.com/TheOGfantasy/status/1615691098608771073

Yes. I love the guy. Ran 4.48 40 at pro day which is a little slower than Jennings. His agility scores are elite though. Great route runner. Not sure he'll be there at 15 though.

[Bretsky]

Yes. I love the guy. Ran 4.48 40 at pro day which is a little slower than Jennings. His agility scores are elite though. Great route runner. Not sure he'll be there at 15 though.



GUTEBAG NEEDS TO WORK a 15 to 13 SWAP into the KAREN DEAL

I have a horrible feelling he will be there AND the TCU stud will be there and Gooters will pass on them both

I've been pounding the table for a R1 WR for about 15 years or more now; always disappointed....lol

[Deputy Nutz]

There isn't a lot in this draft that I would be willing to chase. TCU's Quentin Johnson seems to be the only first round talent with any size whatsoever. I don't trust TCU wide receivers like I didn't trust any player from Clemson in the 1990s and early 2000s. Packers don't have a very dense roster, I could see them work the draft to gain extra picks in the 3rd and 4th round. Hopefully they can get at least one of the Jets second round picks for Rodgers. Packers need two TEs, at least two receivers, probably a replacement Tackle in the coming years, an edge, at least one safety that can come in and compete for a starting position. These are the most glaring need, along with finding a reasonable backup for Love.

[Joemailman]

Wouldn't mind Packers trade down from 15 to mid-20's and pick up a 2nd round pick. 4 picks in first 2 rounds would be nice.

[Deputy Nutz]

The more picks you can have in the top 100 the better chance you have to hit on a quality. The first rounders are always nice, but if I was a GM I would look to acquire as many top 100 picks as I could. Obviously you would want at least one of those some where in the first round.

[Sparkey]

I think you'll see a FA signing or two after the draft. And a WR could be part of the Rodgers trade. And they'll draft at least one.

They brought Dontayvion Wicks in for a visit. I like the guy and they say he is tough and would be a good special teams contributor early on.

[Fritz]

They've redone Bahktiari's contract for this upcoming season, I think they want to make sure Love's blindside is covered. After that, who knows. Wouldn't be shocked if they drafted a OT to be 69's successor.
Gute likes his athletes, so I wouldn't be shocked if they go for a high upside guy at TE. Most of the TEs inside the consensus board's top 100 did very well at the combine. Unlike Jace Sternberger, they all have pretty good RAS scores.
I expect them to bring in two TEs. If I had to randomly guess I'd go with Darnell Washington and Davis Allen.

Apparently the Packers are bringing in a Tenessee OT, Darnell Wright, for one of their pre-draft visits. I don't know much about these guys, but apparently he fits the Packers' bill: he's got a really good RAS and in specific areas the Packers seem to like, and he played both RT and LT for Tennessee. They're projecting he's either early second or first round, moving up the boards.

Not sure how he compares to some of the other O-linemen being discussed here.

[Joemailman]

Apparently the Packers are bringing in a Tenessee OT, Darnell Wright, for one of their pre-draft visits. I don't know much about these guys, but apparently he fits the Packers' bill: he's got a really good RAS and in specific areas the Packers seem to like, and he played both RT and LT for Tennessee. They're projecting he's either early second or first round, moving up the boards.

Not sure how he compares to some of the other O-linemen being discussed here.

He's generally regarded as the #4 OT in this draft. Most projections have him available when the Packers pick in the 1st round. Bigger than most at 335 pounds. Might be more of a RT than LT.

[call_me_ishmael]

Wouldn't mind Packers trade down from 15 to mid-20's and pick up a 2nd round pick. 4 picks in first 2 rounds would be nice.

Dude I totally agree with this. I would love to somehow get like 4 second rounders, no first or third.

[run pMc]

Nutz I 100% agree with you - nobody I'd really chase, Johnson feels like more athlete than football player coming out of an often defense-optional Big12. Also agree as a GM I'd want as many top 100 picks as possible, even if that meant trading down a few times and giving up a top 20 R1 pick. There isn't a big difference between 15 and 25 in this draft other than having less choices. What I mean is I think the talent difference at 15 vs. 25 is negligible, assuming someone a surefire top 10 player doesn't plummet (cough Jalen Carter).

I'd also be open to doing things like trading a pick this year in R3 to get a R2 next year, but I'd also want to trade back to get a pick to make up for that. Anything to get as many picks as possible in the next few years as they unravel from their cap situation. It will be 2025 before they have ample cap space for extensions or to play with in free agency, if they can replace aging players with young top 100 or top 75 talent they absolutely should.

4 second rounders? That'd be nice, especially if 2-3 were top 50.

[run pMc]

He's generally regarded as the #4 OT in this draft. Most projections have him available when the Packers pick in the 1st round. Bigger than most at 335 pounds. Might be more of a RT than LT.

Yeah, he's on my list to watch. Seems like he's gaining some buzz, and he was first team SEC last year. I think he's a RT but I guess he's also played LT. Could probably slide inside to guard. I saw one scout compared him to Lael Collins.
I need to watch him more - haven't seen him enough yet but so far he's looked pretty good.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Yes. I love the guy. Ran 4.48 40 at pro day which is a little slower than Jennings. His agility scores are elite though. Great route runner. Not sure he'll be there at 15 though.

I don't believe that time at all. First, they said 4.50 to 4.53. Bank on it being 4.53. Plus, Pro Day results tend to be approximately 0.03 faster than the combine--especially at Ohio State. (This coming from a Buckeyes fan.) You don't need to watch tape long enough to see he doesn't have deep speed. He consistently got caught from behind. His speed is nowhere near Jennings.

I just noticed that Tank Bigsby ran 4.56 at the combine and 4.45 at his Pro Day. :)

[Joemailman]

I don't believe that time at all. First, they said 4.50 to 4.53. Bank on it being 4.53. Plus, Pro Day results tend to be approximately 0.03 faster than the combine--especially at Ohio State. (This coming from a Buckeyes fan.) You don't need to watch tape long enough to see he doesn't have deep speed. He consistently got caught from behind. His speed is nowhere near Jennings.

I just noticed that Tank Bigsby ran 4.56 at the combine and 4.45 at his Pro Day. :)

You think he's overrated, as far as being a top 10-20 pick?

[run pMc]

I don't think JSN is a 4.48 guy on most fields. OSU has a fast track.
I think he's closer to a 4.55 or 4.6 guy, but his agility and route running are as good as advertised. Davante wasn't a burner either.
I don't think he's explosive, I think he's steady. If you put him with Goff in DET or with Brady in his NE days he'd feast all day on 8 yard dump offs he'd turn into 12 yard gains.

That said, if he's there and Gute passes on him at 15 I won't be shocked. I wouldn't be mad if they took him either, but I think they could find passable slot receivers later, and they might go with a TE to be an outlet/MOF guy anyway.

[HarveyWallbangers]

You think he's overrated, as far as being a top 10-20 pick?

I would normally not have him as a top 15 player, but I think he'd be a good fit for the Packers--next to Watson and Doubs.

There are other guys that I'd rather we take if they fall.

I plugged in Myles Murphy's measurables at his Pro Day into the RAS calculator, and the comp came up as Rashan Gary. Pro Day results are inflated, but a 4.51 40 and 1.59 10 yd split at 6'5" 268 is impressive.

From a Packers perspective I have the board as something like this:

1 Will Anderson
2 Jalen Carter*
3 Tyree Wilson
4 Myles Murphy
5 Peter Skoronski
6 Lukas Van Ness
7 Paris Johnson
8 Christian Gonzalez**
9 Devon Witherspoon**

If those 9 are gone, then you are looking at JSN and Bryan Bresee--or possibly Kincaid, Mayer, or Broderick Jones.

*character concerns might push him down or off the Packers board.
**I'm just finishing up LBs and haven't gotten to CBs, but from what I've seen so far, I'll probably have Gonzalez or Witherspoon as the #1 CB.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think JSN benefits from this being a weak WR class. Think about last year: Garrett Wilson, Chris Olave, Drake London, Jameson Williams, Treylon Burks, Jahan Dotson, Christian Watson, George Pickens, Skyy Moore. Where would the JSN rank amongst that group? That was the year to draft a WR in the late first or early second because there were so many good WR prospects available. I feel like this year's group will get overdrafted. You have JSN--who may not rank in the top 5 last year. Quentin Johnston has a lot of question marks--similar to Burks. After that are a bunch of small WRs (Flowers, Downs, Addison, Hyatt all weigh 182 pounds or less).

I'm convinced Gute goes EDGE (Murphy, Van Ness), OT (Skoronski, Johnson) or CB (Gonzalez or Witherspoon) in round 1. Then, he hits WR and TE hard for the next few rounds. Tillman, Mingo, Rice, Wilson are a better fit and you can get them in rounds 2-3 and come back with tall, athletic WRs (Ford-Wheaton, Landers, DuBose, Iosivas) in rounds 4-5. Take a TE with a 2nd or 3rd round pick and then draft a second TE later in the draft.

Here's what I'd love:

1 EDGE Myles Murphy or Lukas Van Ness
2a TE Luke Musgrave
2b WR Cedric Tillman or Jonathan Mingo
3 CB Julius Brents or Darius Rush
4a TE Zack Kuntz or Josh Wyhle
4b OT Nick Saldiveri or a safety
5 WR Bryce Ford-Wheaton, Matt Landers, or Grant DuBose

Then, give me Hunter Luepke with a 7th (more likely, a trade up into round 5-6 to get him).

[HarveyWallbangers]

Ivan Pace. Guys like Ivan Pace are why I love watching film of these guys. I'm watching off ball LBs. Sanders is fairly impressive. I thought Campbell would look better on film. Simpson did nothing in the 2 games I've watched so far. Henley, Williams, Overshown, Pappoe are coverage LBs. They all look the same. Sewell, To'oTo'o, Herbig are meh. Then, I get to Pace. Such a fun watch. Dude is 5'11" 231, didn't test that great, but he's a football player. Tenacious, looks faster than he tested. Reminds of me of Denzel Perryman. Ivan Pace, bringing back the fun as I'm watching LBs. He's like the Deuce Vaughn of LBs.
:)

[HarveyWallbangers]

Here is my draft spreadsheet... for anybody that is interested. It would be fun to get other people on board. I feel like Nutz would be great at evaluating OL/DL. Run has great takes, and others that I don't mean to exclude. I don't know if I can do this for every player at every position in the years to come. This has been exhaustive, but I guess that's the benefit of being divorced. :)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LBCjHBo3CZ5Zp1lWuX-dRyBgQe6hxqWxhcxTtHjVsdM/edit?usp=sharing

[ThunderDan]

Here is my draft spreadsheet... for anybody that is interested. It would be fun to get other people on board. I feel like Nutz would be great at evaluating OL/DL. Run has great takes, and others that I don't mean to exclude. I don't know if I can do this for every player at every position in the years to come. This has been exhaustive, but I guess that's the benefit of being divorced. :)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LBCjHBo3CZ5Zp1lWuX-dRyBgQe6hxqWxhcxTtHjVsdM/edit?usp=sharing

That is truly impressive.

[Fritz]

Here is my draft spreadsheet... for anybody that is interested. It would be fun to get other people on board. I feel like Nutz would be great at evaluating OL/DL. Run has great takes, and others that I don't mean to exclude. I don't know if I can do this for every player at every position in the years to come. This has been exhaustive, but I guess that's the benefit of being divorced. :)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LBCjHBo3CZ5Zp1lWuX-dRyBgQe6hxqWxhcxTtHjVsdM/edit?usp=sharing

Holy smokes, Harv. That is impressive as all get-out.

I wonder if Guter sneaks onto Packerrats and downloads this thing....

[Sparkey]

Here is my draft spreadsheet... for anybody that is interested. It would be fun to get other people on board. I feel like Nutz would be great at evaluating OL/DL. Run has great takes, and others that I don't mean to exclude. I don't know if I can do this for every player at every position in the years to come. This has been exhaustive, but I guess that's the benefit of being divorced. :)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LBCjHBo3CZ5Zp1lWuX-dRyBgQe6hxqWxhcxTtHjVsdM/edit?usp=sharing

Awesome stuff Harvey!

[run pMc]

Here is my draft spreadsheet... for anybody that is interested. It would be fun to get other people on board. I feel like Nutz would be great at evaluating OL/DL. Run has great takes, and others that I don't mean to exclude. I don't know if I can do this for every player at every position in the years to come. This has been exhaustive, but I guess that's the benefit of being divorced. :)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LBCjHBo3CZ5Zp1lWuX-dRyBgQe6hxqWxhcxTtHjVsdM/edit?usp=sharing

As others have said, this is impressive -- nice job!
I've been looking at Tyler Brooke's big board and Paul Noonan's WROPS spreadsheets as well. Interesting to see how things overlap.
Agree with your take on the WRs and how JSN stacks up against last year's. I think they go EDGE or OT in R1. Almost all the highly touted WR prospects are smaller guys and I have trouble seeing them draft a WR under 190 pounds much less 200.
CB is an interesting take -- their secondary is weirdly misshapen with 3 good outside CBs and no good full-time safety. Gute says Rasul is an outside corner, which tells me Stokes is going to take more time to recover.

Van Ness scares me a bit because he wasn't even a starter for Iowa, but he's raw and toolsy and reminds of Gary in that regard. Maybe after Mike Neal and Vince Biegel they've figured out how to develop EDGEs.
Murphy feels like a potential Preston v2.0 pick and I wouldn't mind him but I wonder if he's a better fit as a 4-3 DE.
One guy I've watched a bit that I like is Isaiah Foskey. Has slipped into R2 but I like him.

I'll have to check out Pace. Some of those guys will fall because of size, etc. but at a minimum they can often play feisty right away on special teams.

[HarveyWallbangers]

LB Jeremy Banks, Tennessee vs Purdue is really good tape. He'd probably be a day 2 guy for me without character issues. Apparently, he's a complete turd. He got kicked off the team. They let him back on the team. He had a monster 2021 season with 128 tackles, 11.5 TFLs, 5.5 sacks. I guess he became a problem again this year after Tennessee started losing some games. Late for meetings. Things like that. Hendon Hooker admonished him for it. Banks didn't take kindly to that and go into it with the backup QB.

[Joemailman]

Does Jordan Addison's RAS eliminate him from consideration from Packers?

[run pMc]

Not necessarily. If he plays out of the slot. Slot receivers often have lower RAS scores.
What does eliminate him is his size. He's a tick under 6' and weighs 175 pounds soaking wet. I think if he was190 he'd be talked about as a top 15 pick. Smaller receivers struggle to stay healthy and survive a 17 game season.

[Joemailman]

LB Jeremy Banks, Tennessee vs Purdue is really good tape. He'd probably be a day 2 guy for me without character issues. Apparently, he's a complete turd. He got kicked off the team. They let him back on the team. He had a monster 2021 season with 128 tackles, 11.5 TFLs, 5.5 sacks. I guess he became a problem again this year after Tennessee started losing some games. Late for meetings. Things like that. Hendon Hooker admonished him for it. Banks didn't take kindly to that and go into it with the backup QB.

Packers tend to avoid the Vontaze Burflicts.

[Fritz]

And probably rightly so. Part of why they're so good is that they really have very few boundaries as human beings, so they're just super aggressive and can be effective. But you can't fit within a system being that person, not for too long. Not that the NFL is full of upstanding citizens, but you have to at least be willing to conform to societal expectations in some ways.

[Joemailman]

Packers hosting Georgia Tech EDGE Keion White on a visit. At 285 pounds, he's really big for an EDGE rusher. Harvey has him as a 2-3 round pick. https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2023/keion-white has him as a mid-2nd round pick, which would fit in very well with where the Packers are picking.

[Fritz]

Keion, Keion likes his money. He makes a lot, they say. Spends his days counting, in a garage, by the motorway.

[Sparkey]

Keion, Keion likes his money. He makes a lot, they say. Spends his days counting, in a garage, by the motorway.

Nice!

[Joemailman]

Northwestern RB Evan Hull visiting with Packers. Excellent pass receiver. Had a great combine. Harvey has him as a 5th round pick. Some project him later.

[run pMc]

Northwestern RB Evan Hull visiting with Packers. Excellent pass receiver. Had a great combine. Harvey has him as a 5th round pick. Some project him later.

Interesting player. Draft consensus board as of today has him at #225, so he'd be a late Day 3 priority UDFA type. Known as a good pass catcher, caught a lot of throws for NW. Also tested pretty well.
Between him and Keaton Mitchell (who also visited - I'd envision him in a Tyler Ervin role) it seems they're looking to find some 3rd down backs to push Tyler Goodson.

[Deputy Nutz]

Lets get Nuts,

1st real mock of the year with lots of trades. I want to accumulate as many top100 picks as possible, in fact I went hard to get as many picks as I could inside the top 75 of this draft.
First trade, you know who goes can't wait to see Rodgers walk out of Green Bay. Packers get both the 42nd and the 43rd pick in this draft with a conditional 1st round pick in 2024 if the Jets make it to the playoffs in 2023. The Packers give the Jets their 2023 3rd and 4th round picks along with Rodgers.

Packers trade pick 15 to the Giants for their 25th overall, Pick 57, and a 1st in 2024.

Packers trade pick 25 to the Eagles for pick #30, and pick #62

Packers with the 30th selection of the 2023 draft take Georgia TE Darnell Washington.
Overall size and athleticism is hard to come by even in the NFL. He was never the first option in the passing game at Georgia but he was the 6th lineman on the field. The Packer hold significant value in a run blocking TE that creates difficult matchups in the run and pass game for opposing defenses. He is a more athletic version of Mercedes Lewis.

Packers with the 42nd selection in the 2023 draft from the NYJs take Kansas St. Defensive End Felix Anudike-Uzomah
Size is prototypical for the Packers for an Edge player. he can operate with his hand in the ground or in a sprinters stance. His Ras score isn't as high as some would like in Green Bay but he has a decent tool box to go with a high motor. He plays the run and pass equally and seems to be assignment sound.

Packers trade the 43rd pick from the Jets and the 149th pick to the Bengals for the 60th and the 92nd picks in this years draft

Packers with the 45th selection in the 2023 draft select Tennessee WR Cedric Tillman
Overall size and athleticism makes this pick a reasonable one for the Packers that fills a need. Now Tillman I would compare to a Davante Adams, almost more athletic but the jumping and footwork is there. Davante monopolized his raw talent and trained himself into a hall of fame receiver. Tillman would have to do the same. He is a huge target that can get up in the air and win contested catches with strong catch radius. He will be asked to do more in the NFL than he did in college.

Packers with the 57th selection from the Giants in the 2023 draft select Oregon St TE Luke Musgrave
athletic as a wide receiver and can stretch the middle of the field. Questionable taking two tight end within the first 3 picks but the Packers have a need and are willing to pay the price to give Love the weapons he will need. This is a long term investment for the Packers, as I don't think he will play as many snaps as Washington because he isn't as polished as a top end blocker at the position.

Packers with the 60th selection from the Bengals in the 2023 draft select NDSU OL Cody Mauch
Spotlighted for being an ugly motherfucker at the Senior Bowl, but yet turning out exceptional one on ones in practice in both the passing and run portion he gain attention as a "small school" breakout. He isn't some burly cement footed blocker as his Ras score of 9.33 makes him elite at 6-5 308 pounds. He could fill a need at guard or tackle.

Packers with the 62nd selection from the Eagles in the 2023 draft select Texas A&M Saf Antonio Johnson
There is a lot to like on film. He can come down and cover the slot, he is an assertive tackler, and can play the deep middle or 1/2 field. The issue with Johnson is he didn't back up his play with a solid combine. a questionable 40 time and vertical leave scouts wondering if he has the physical attributes to match up in the NFL.

Packers with the 92nd selection from the Bengals in the 2023 draft select Ole Miss WR Johnathan Mingo
Greek gods from Ole Miss is becoming a thing and Mingo is the next in line. Injuries sort of plagued him at Mississippi but he is an elite receiver of the football with excellent hands and catch radius. His Ras of 9.88 will be like the bat signal for the Packers to draft him.

Packers with the 170th selection of the 2023 draft select Iowa DB Riley Moss
Elite size and athleticism make this pick for the Packers a no brainer. Moss who played CB at Iowa should have the capabilities to slide over to safety if need be. He will have to demonstrate that some of his INTs were not just luck but because he knows where to be because of being a film rat. He should have excellent ability to break on routes based on his footwork and foot speed.

Packers with the 232nd selection of the 2023 draft select Houston DB Gervarrius Owens
Pro size, with a Ras of 9.22 that draws the Packers in like a moth to a flame Owens will be brought in to compete for a roster spot if nothing else. He needs to show up on special teams if he intends to make this roster out of the gate. We all hope for a diamond in the rough, but the reality is they need to make a dent on special teams first.

Packers with the 235 selection of the 2023 draft take Wisconsin LB Nick Herbig
I know what I saw the last three years and his production is not that of a 7th rounder. He hit the 240 pound mark at the combine, but it didn't exactly help his numbers and he came out with an average Ras score of 7.76. Herbig has an excellent motor and his first step is amazing. He was one of the top 5 pass rushers in college. Its not that he can't play like a typical outside linebacker and drop into coverage and cover backs out the backfield, its that he was such a dynamic pass rushers you would have been a fool to not send him.

Packers with the 242nd selection of the 2023 draft take Alabama DL Byron Young
Can't really go wrong with an Alabama defensive lineman and the Packers need depth along their core. He has some good strength and body awareness and can hold the point of attack pretty darn good. Also, not sure if he is a 7th rounder because defensive linemen still have a premium in the NFL draft

Packers with the 256 selection of the 2023 draft take Marland OL Spencer Anderson
Don't really know much about him other than he has size and has a Ras score of 9.35 and the Packers can't get enough of high end Ras scores.

[run pMc]

Fun stuff Nutz. I played around in the PFF mock simulator and the Consensus draft boards mock simulator. The Consensus one is bonkers - trades all over the place. I did one where I ended up moving around so much I think I ended up with like 13 picks plus another 2 or 3 in 2024. I don't think it's super realistic for a few reasons - i've run it a number of times and players like Levis or Will Anderson fall to 15. I have trouble with that as a most likely scenario.

FWIW, I like Byron Young out of Alabama as a depth DL. He shows up on film and looks like he could give some quality snaps in relief early. I think he's more of a R4-5 guy than R7 though. Won't comment on the other players as sometimes it's who's there.
Haven't really watched Riley Moss, will have to check him out. I could see them taking a CB and converting them to S, although that implies it would be mid-season before they'd really be ready to play.

I also agree with the idea of getting as many top 100 picks as possible, even if that means trading down with the 15th pick a couple of times. I don't think there's a substantial difference in the talent at 15 vs. 25 in this draft, bouncing twice from 15 to 21 to 28 or so could yield a couple of extra picks inside the top 100 that could get you a decent player.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It's hard to consider Joey Porter in the conversation for CB1 after watching Charlie Jones of Purdue torch him repeatedly. Porter needs to be in the right system for him to be effective. That system is press man--while zone is becoming more and more prevalent in the NFL.

[HarveyWallbangers]

He really turned things around in the second half though. Night and day--although he wasn't on Jones as much.

[run pMc]

PSU QB Sean Clifford and LSU DT Jaquelin Roy invited to GB as official 30 visits.

Roy had 4th most DT pressures in the SEC. Inconsistent but might be a Day 3 depth piece to push Wyatt. Haven't looked at Clifford or most of the QBs at all.

They're bringing in some interesting players for visits.

[Fritz]

If only there were a QB out there named Clifford Sean.

I saw an ACME piece today speculating that it might be an offensive lineman with that first pick.

That wouldn't bother me at all, unless they picked some yahoo they could've gotten in the second round.

[jklowan]

couple of trade downs, nice haul I think.... make it happen Gutes

17 - Lukas Van Ness
EDGE | Iowa

47 - Luke Musgrave
TE | Oregon State

78 - Cedric Tillman
WR | Tennessee

98 - Marvin Mims
WR | Oklahoma

111 - Ji'Ayir Brown
S | Penn State

116 - Wanya Morris
OT | Oklahoma

140 - Colby Wooden
DL | Auburn

149 - Cory Trice
CB | Purdue

150 - Josh Whyle
TE | Cincinnati

170 - Ivan Pace Jr.
LB | Cincinnati

193 - Jake Moody
K | Michigan

232 - Nick Saldiveri
OT | Old Dominion

234 - Jaxson Kirkland
IOL | Washington

235 - Jay Ward
S | LSU

241 - Davis Allen
TE | Clemson

242 - Tre Tucker
WR | Cincinnati

256 - Robert Beal Jr.
EDGE | Georgia

[run pMc]

I'm on the fence with Cedric Tillman.
Really wanted to like him and was underwhelmed when I first watched him. Watching him again and... he's not bad. If he has any specific trait that stands out it's his size and that he's not afraid of the physical play -- that should help him as a pro.
Seems like a 3rd rounder, maybe a James Jones type.

[run pMc]

If only there were a QB out there named Clifford Sean.

I saw an ACME piece today speculating that it might be an offensive lineman with that first pick.

That wouldn't bother me at all, unless they picked some yahoo they could've gotten in the second round.

How about if Clifford the Big Red Dog was an offensive lineman in the draft.

Seriously, I wouldn't be shocked if they took an OT in R1. Big fan of Paris Johnson as a LT and Darnell Wright at RT. Broderick Jones needs a year but could be good as a LT with the way GB coaches players. OT might not be an immediate need but if they can get a guy who'll be a good 10year vet that's a very good pick.

[Fritz]

I don't watch these guys so I don't know them like you or Harv, but if this Broderick Jones has that much potential, he could sit a year (unless there are injuries) and learn.

But wait, if they pick a left OT, will Bakhtieri feel slighted and angry and begin to ponder retirement, or ask for a trade?

But yes, OT would be fine. Almost anything would be fine except maybe a safety (because this class seems so poor), a corner (another one? Whuut?), an inside linebacker (you ignore the position for years but now you draft two first-rounders in a row?), running back (poor use of first-round pick) or a center/guard (bad use of draft capital methinks). But defensive line, wide receiver, tight end, OT, EDGE, all good. Hell, I'd even entertain a QB is one that you all were in love with was sitting there at 15. Wouldn't be my favorite thing, but it'd be okay.

[run pMc]

I think these are the best uses of R1 picks, in a vacuum:

QB, OT, EDGE, DL, CB
maybe WR

WRs and especially TEs have a high bust rate. C, G, RB, ILB, S can be found in later rounds too.
(CBs have high bust rates too, but you always need 3+ good ones: they get hurt often and frequently have short careers. So you have to draft them often and a shutdown CB like Jaire has real value.)

Only exceptions would be if an absolute stud falls to you. Quenton Nelson, Roquan Smith, etc. guys who are once in a decade types at their position.
There have been studies done that look at All-Pro players by position and where they are drafted. Tom Brady was a unicorn -- you're just not likely to find an All-Pro QB in R6.
There have also been studies showing which positions have most influence in the outcome of a game.

IMO you don't simply draft for position or positional need, you draft the BPA on your board -- but your board should give slight preference to players at those more premium positions.
If you have a RB and an EDGE graded equally, you're probably going with the EDGE. It's why Bijan Robinson is likely drafted after Will Anderson or Tyree Wilson.

[run pMc]

Bahktiari's cap hit is $40M next year, his dead cap is $21M, IIRC. I've heard some opine that it's not worth extending him because they've already kicked so much of his money down that it's going to be ugly either way.
My guess is that given his cap hit, age, and injuries he's gone after this year. Whether he's cut or traded remains to be seen.

I wouldn't worry about Bahktiari going full Josh Sitton on the team with his contract or if an OT is drafted.
I do wonder if he gets moved if GB is out of the playoff hunt by the trade deadline. When healthy he's still a very good player, and as Gute likes to remind us: good OT don't grow on trees.

[Joemailman]

Packers will be hosting a pre-draft visit with TE Dalton Kincaid. Kincaid has received medical clearance for his back injury he suffered last year.


Dr. Robert Watkins recently sent a letter to NFL teams, fully clearing Utah TE and expected first-round pick Dalton Kincaid from the back injury he suffered last season.

“Dalton Kincaid sustained a back injury while playing football on 11/26/2022,” said the email from Dr. Watkins. “Subsequent MRIs have shown appropriating healing and he has been asymptomatic with no pain and no limitation of function for at least 3 months. He is cleared to play football with no restrictions.”

[Deputy Nutz]

Mid round QB, Clayton Tune from Houston 6'3" 220

Eyes seem to always be down field, I love his footwork in the pocket. He has a plus arm and his footwork lends itself to accuracy. My opinion against a good pass rushing Tulane team he managed to pocket well evading rushers with his feet and not having to take his vision off his receivers. Sure he was sacked a few times but most of the time it wasn't the first guy free that got him. He has potential to be starter in the NFL

[Deputy Nutz]

Georgia TE Darnell Washington will go in the first round. I would like to see him bend a little better but his lead blocking, kick out blocks, and even his pass blocking is so damn good you don't even care what you get out of him as a pass catcher

[HarveyWallbangers]

Mid round QB, Clayton Tune from Houston 6'3" 220

Eyes seem to always be down field, I love his footwork in the pocket. He has a plus arm and his footwork lends itself to accuracy. My opinion against a good pass rushing Tulane team he managed to pocket well evading rushers with his feet and not having to take his vision off his receivers. Sure he was sacked a few times but most of the time it wasn't the first guy free that got him. He has potential to be starter in the NFL

He's one of my guys. :)

[HarveyWallbangers]

Not much to add to "my guys" list after watching off ball LBs. I like a guy that is projected to go undrafted, Isaiah Moore. Jeremy Banks had solid tape too, but he has HUGE character concerns. Kyle Soelle is one of the few LBs that are 6'3" 230+ in the draft with a RAS score of 9.25. I'm only adding Moore to the list though.

QB Clayton Tune
RB Roschon Johnson
FB/TE/RB Hunter Luepke
WR Jonathan Mingo
WR Grant DuBose
WR Matt Landers
TE Luke Schoonmaker
OT/OG Peter Skoronski
OT Nick Saldiveri
OT Earl Bostick
IOL Ricky Stromberg
IOL Jon Gaines
IOL Braeden Daniels
DT Mazi Smith
DT Keeanu Benton
LB Jack Campbell
LB Isaiah Moore
CB D.J. Turner
S Jason Taylor

[run pMc]

Packers will be hosting a pre-draft visit with TE Dalton Kincaid. Kincaid has received medical clearance for his back injury he suffered last year.

If the medicals check out, Kincaid is probably the first TE of most pundits' boards.

Looks like GB is also bringing in the Adebawore guy from Northwestern. I think he's just an athletic bowling ball, don't really care for him as a scheme fit.

[Joemailman]

Packers list of official visits so far. Last year Packers drafted 6 players they visited with.

1. TE Darnell Washington, Georgia
2. OLB Will McDonald IV, Iowa State
3. S Jordan Howden, Minnesota
4. DB Jammie Robinson, Florida State
5. WR Dontayvion Wicks, Virginia
6. RB Keaton Mitchell, East Carolina
7. S/LB Marte Mapu, Sacramento State
8. QB Hendon Hooker, Tennessee
9. OT Darnell Wright, Tennessee
10. OLB/DL Keion White, Georgia Tech
11. RB Lew Nichols III, Central Michigan
12. QB Sean Clifford, Penn State
13. RB Evan Hull, Northwestern
14. DL Jaquelin Roy, LSU
15. TE Dalton Kincaid, Utah
16. OLB/DL Adetomiwa Adebawore, Northwestern
17. TE Ben Sims, Baylor

[run pMc]

Packers list of official visits so far. Last year Packers drafted 6 players they visited with.

and an additional 3 players spent time on the roster/practice squad. Definitely worth watching to see who they bring in.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The Packers have years like that and then other years when they draft very few of the guys from their official visits. Daniel Jeremiah said that teams don't really play games with their visits though (i.e. bringing guys that they are not interested in to throw off who they really are interested in). He said teams will bring in about 10 guys they don't have medicals on, 10-15 guys they really haven't gotten to talk to a lot (many are guys that were off their radar, but they had big Pro Days), and maybe 5 guys that have character concerns. Basically, they bring in guys that they need more information about--filling in their scouting reports.

[run pMc]

The Packers have years like that and then other years when they draft very few of the guys from their official visits. Daniel Jeremiah said that teams don't really play games with their visits though (i.e. bringing guys that they are not interested in to throw off who they really are interested in). He said teams will bring in about 10 guys they don't have medicals on, 10-15 guys they really haven't gotten to talk to a lot (many are guys that were off their radar, but they had big Pro Days), and maybe 5 guys that have character concerns. Basically, they bring in guys that they need more information about--filling in their scouting reports.

Agree. I think a lot of times it's players they didn't know much (or enough about) and they're gathering information. Devonte Wyatt, Sam Williams and George Pickens (all visits last year) had some off-field or character concerns and they likely wanted to get a feel for them in the building. They talk to a lot of the players at the bowl games or combine but it's not a lot of time -- IIRC they get 15 minutes and that's it. I'd expect if you're going to draft someone you want to make sure they love the game and the money won't turn them into Cletidus , but also that they aren't a dirtbag who makes GB look like they employ criminal idiots. Locker room chemistry/fit plays a big part, as well as any additional medical or on-field testing they might want to do. Basically like any job interview - bringing them in for a closer look to determine if they're a good fit.

I know TT used them more for subterfuge, and occasionally they still do, but I think that's a waste of everyone's time.

[run pMc]

Packers supposedly brought/bringing in Michael Mayer for a visit.
https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2023/04/13/packers-host-official-pre-draft-visit-with-notre-dame-te-michael-mayer

[Joemailman]

Updated (not sure how up to date) list of Packers pre-draft visits. 5 TE's so far.

1. TE Darnell Washington, Georgia
2. OLB Will McDonald IV, Iowa State
3. S Jordan Howden, Minnesota
4. DB Jammie Robinson, Florida State
5. WR Dontayvion Wicks, Virginia
6. RB Keaton Mitchell, East Carolina
7. S/LB Marte Mapu, Sacramento State
8. QB Hendon Hooker, Tennessee
9. OT Darnell Wright, Tennessee
10. OLB/DL Keion White, Georgia Tech
11. RB Lew Nichols III, Central Michigan
12. QB Sean Clifford, Penn State
13. RB Evan Hull, Northwestern
14. DL Jaquelin Roy, LSU
15. TE Dalton Kincaid, Utah
16. OLB/DL Adetomiwa Adebawore, Northwestern
17. TE Ben Sims, Baylor
18. TE Michael Mayer, Notre Dame
19. OL Atonio Mafi, UCLA
20. CB Tyrique Stevenson, Miami
21. WR Cole Tucker, NIU
22. TE Josh Whyle, Cincinnati

[run pMc]

List of attendees to NFL draft night:
WR Jordan Addison, USC
EDGE Will Anderson Jr., Alabama
S Brian Branch, Alabama
DL Jalen Carter, Georgia
WR Zay Flowers, Boston College
CB Christian Gonzalez, Oregon
OT Paris Johnson Jr., Ohio State
QB Will Levis, Kentucky
CB Joey Porter Jr, Penn State
QB Anthony Richardson, Florida
RB Bijan Robinson, Texas
WR Jaxon Smith-Njigba, Ohio State
QB C.J. Stroud, Ohio State
EDGE Keion White, Georgia Tech
EDGE Tyree Wilson, Texas Tech
CB Devon Witherspoon, Illinois
QB Bryce Young, Alabama

Not a TE among them. Interesting.
Also, Keion White? I know GB brought him in for a visit, but I'm sort-of hoping he's not their pick at 15. Dude is a very raw prospect...and he's already 24.

[Fritz]

List of attendees to NFL draft night:
WR Jordan Addison, USC
EDGE Will Anderson Jr., Alabama
S Brian Branch, Alabama
DL Jalen Carter, Georgia
WR Zay Flowers, Boston College
CB Christian Gonzalez, Oregon
OT Paris Johnson Jr., Ohio State
QB Will Levis, Kentucky
CB Joey Porter Jr, Penn State
QB Anthony Richardson, Florida
RB Bijan Robinson, Texas
WR Jaxon Smith-Njigba, Ohio State
QB C.J. Stroud, Ohio State
EDGE Keion White, Georgia Tech
EDGE Tyree Wilson, Texas Tech
CB Devon Witherspoon, Illinois
QB Bryce Young, Alabama

Not a TE among them. Interesting.
Also, Keion White? I know GB brought him in for a visit, but I'm sort-of hoping he's not their pick at 15. Dude is a very raw prospect...and he's already 24.

One of the great sources of tension on that night is watching to see which one of those guys doesn't get picked . . . doesn't get picked . . . doesn't get picked . . . and suddenly you can see the anguish in the guy's face as the other guys are celebrating being chosen so high in the draft. It's a really uncomfortable yet compelling part of the entertainment.

[run pMc]

One of the great sources of tension on that night is watching to see which one of those guys doesn't get picked . . . doesn't get picked . . . doesn't get picked . . . and suddenly you can see the anguish in the guy's face as the other guys are celebrating being chosen so high in the draft. It's a really uncomfortable yet compelling part of the entertainment.

Agree it can be good drama, but after a while you feel for some of these kids who have to sit all night. I'm not sure some of these guys should be R1 picks, but the NFL does their homework to avoid inviting guys who aren't getting sufficient interest or back-channel guarantees they'll be picked.

What I've been hearing is that by the middle of the first round, you're basically picking a Round 2 caliber player this year...so who knows.

[Fritz]

Agree it can be good drama, but after a while you feel for some of these kids who have to sit all night. I'm not sure some of these guys should be R1 picks, but the NFL does their homework to avoid inviting guys who aren't getting sufficient interest or back-channel guarantees they'll be picked.

What I've been hearing is that by the middle of the first round, you're basically picking a Round 2 caliber player this year...so who knows.

Is it just me, or has that been the case the last couple of years? Scouts or insiders saying that the first round doesn't actually have thirty-two guys with first-round grades?

I'm waiting for the day when some GM comes out and says his team has, say, thirty-nine guys with first round grades.

[run pMc]

Is it just me, or has that been the case the last couple of years? Scouts or insiders saying that the first round doesn't actually have thirty-two guys with first-round grades?

I'm waiting for the day when some GM comes out and says his team has, say, thirty-nine guys with first round grades.

It's usually the case. I'd laugh if someone said they had that many.
I've heard this is one of the weakest drafts in recent history, but there are still areas of strength within it (EDGE, TE, CB). I think it's got some decent depth in the R2-4 range, but don't think it's a strong/deep draft.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Interesting post on reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenBayPackers/comments/12ptwgr/every_packers_predraft_visit_and_top_30_visits_as/


Every Packers Predraft Visit AND Top 30 Visits (As of 4/17/23)

East-West Shrine Bowl:
Toledo DL Desjuan Johnson
Michigan State TE Daniel Barker

Hula Bowl:
Oregon State WR Tyjon Lindsey
Lane College Edge Andrew Farmer II

Senior Bowl:
TCU QB Max Duggan
Princeton WR Andrei Iosivas
Chattanooga OL McClendon Curtis
Florida OL Richard Gouraige
Michigan C Olusegun Oluwatimi
TCU LB Dee Winters
Central Michigan EDGE Thomas Incoom

Tropical Bowl:
Oklahoma DB Justin Broiles
Vanderbuilt S Maxwell Worship

NFLPA Bowl:
ECU QB Holton Ahlers (3x)

NFL Combine:
BYU QB Jaren Hall
TCU WR Quentin Johnson
Michigan State WR Jayden Reed
Ohio State WR Jaxon Smith-Njigba (multiple visits)
Boston College WR Zay Flowers
Houston WR Tank Dell (informal)
Tennessee WR Jalin Hyatt (Formal)
Alabama WR Jalen Wayne
Notre Dame TE Michael Mayer
Utah TE Dalton Kincaid (Formal)
Georgia TE Darnell Washington (Formal)
Oregon State TE Luke Musgrave (Formal)
Michigan TE Luke Schoonmaker (Formal)
SDSU TE Tucker Kraft
Northwestern OT Peter Skoronski (Formal)
Ohio State OT Paris Johnson Jr (Formal)
Ohio State OT Dawand Jones
NDSU OL Cody Mauch

Auburn LB Derick Hall
Alabama S Jordan Battle
Alabama S Brian Branch (Formal)
Boise State JL Skinner
Oregon State DB Rezjohn Wright (Informal)
Iowa DB Riley Moss
Georgia CB Kelee Ringo
Alabama CB Eli Ricks (Formal)
Oregon CB Christian Gonzalez
Kansas State CB Julius Brents
Iowa EDGE Luke Van Ness
Michigan DT Mazi Smith
Northwestern DL Adetomiwa Adebawore
Texas DL Keondre Coburn

Players Pro Day:
Utah State QB Luke Bonner
Appalachian State LB Nick Hamton
Mississippi State Edge Randy Charlton
Pittsburg Edge Habakkuk Baldonado
Pittsburg DL Deslin Alexandre
Iowa State DL MJ Anderson

Unspecified:
Tennessee QB Hendon Hooker
Stanford QB Tanner McKee
USC RB Travis Dye
Langston RB Tahj Davidson (Informal)
Northern Colorado RB Elijah Dotson
Northwestern RB Evan Hull (Informal)
Southeast Missouri State C Shyron Rodgers
Hawaii OL Ilm Manning
Florida LB Ventrell Miller
Florida S Trey Dean

Virtual Visits:
Arkansas WR Jadon Haselwood
North Dakota WR Garett Maag
Iowa TE Sam LaPorta
Penn State C Juice Scruggs
Minnesota C John Michael Schmitz
Maryland OT Jaelyn Duncan
Mississippi State DL Cameron Young

Top 30 Visits:
Offense:
QB Hendon Hooker - Tennessee
QB Sean Clifford - Penn State
RB Keaton Mitchell - ECU
RB Lew Nichols III - CMU
RB Evan Hull - Northwestern
WR Donatayvion Wicks - Virginia
WR Tank Dell - Houston
WR Cole Tucker - NIU
TE Darnell Washington - Georgia
TE Dalton Kincaid - Utah
TE Michael Mayer - Notre Dame
TE Josh Whyle - Cincinnati
TE Zach Kuntz - Old Dominion
TE Ben Sims - Baylor
OT Darnell Wright - Tennessee
OG Atonio Mafi - UCLA

Defense:
LB/S Marte Mapu - Sacramento State
DB Tyrique Stevenson - Miami
Safety Jordan Howden - Minnesota
Safety Jammie Robinson - Florida State
EDGE Keion White - Georgia Tech
EDGE Will McDonald IV - Iowa State
DL Adetomiwa Adebawore - Northwestern
DT Jaquelin Roy - LSU
Total: 24/30

[jklowan]

Love this draft
https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2023/4/17/23686995/green-bay-packers-2023-mock-draft-darnell-wright?utm_campaign=acmepackingcompany&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

[run pMc]

Love this draft
https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2023/4/17/23686995/green-bay-packers-2023-mock-draft-darnell-wright?utm_campaign=acmepackingcompany&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

It's pretty good, except for no EDGE rusher. Not sure where that pass rush will come from without Gary, and I don't trust Barry to be clever enough to scheme something up.

[jklowan]

I think it would be better if they traded down to 19 -20 and picked up another 2nd rounder to address that issue, but I love the draft and would not be unhappy with that haul and the extra 2nd fr a edge rusher

[Deputy Nutz]

When I try to pin point this draft or any draft for the matter with the view point from the Packers front office, I look at players currently on the roster or former players that were productive their offensive and defensive systems. I also compare the size and athletic attributes of former athletes drafted or on the roster. This is the best I could come up with

QB - Athletic players, that look to throw the ball down field and that have the ability to break down defenses. Ideal measurables are 6'2" or greater, 215 lbs. Love was the exception in terms of arm accuracy especially his senior year. Love was drafted more for his potential than his numbers in college.

RB - High RAS score. Measurable are all over the place. Probably their most flexible position in terms of size

OT - Interesting because I think in the Wide Zone scheme of LaFluer they value very high RAS scores in their offensive linemen. I don't think height factors in unless a player is shorter than 6'4". They have to be able to move and be able to reach defenders outside of them. The Packers will fill a need early in the draft if they have a hole. Currently the Packers have some big dudes on the roster listed at tackle with 7 dudes 6'5" or taller. Bak and Toms are the only ones that are 6'4".

IOL - Same for offensive tackles. RAS scores above almost anything else. Centers have to be the second smartest player on the field for the Packers and they put an added value on this, but will not reach on a guy just because he went to Princeton but has a Fred Flintstone build. Again they will look to early rounds to fill a hole but they will wait and try to find a diamond in the rough that they can polish. Measurable again will determine on RAS scores but they will rarely take a player under 6'3" and under 300 pounds.

WR - RAS and size is key. They use their receivers a lot in the run game to block and mess with the defensive personnel. Doubs is 6'2", and Watson is 6'4". Even though Amari Rodgers was 5'9" he was 215 pounds, I think the Packers thought they could turn him into a poor man's Debo Samuels. Watson doesn't seem to be much of a blocker but look for the Packers to covet big strong receivers with high RAS scores in the later rounds. In the 2023 draft look for the Packers to draft an early slot type receiver and then look to add depth in the form of an Allen Lazard type.

TE - They have held on to Mercedes Lewis for a long time because they require their inline TEs to block like a 6th offensive lineman. Size and RAS score are the key. IF a TE can't make hay downfield in the pass game they better be able to block. Packers require versatility in their TE position, so to be exact in their measurables might be a bit difficult, Deguara was drafted in the 3rd round and is 6'2" 238 pounds. I think they see him more as an H-Back type in their offense. I would say the Packers prototypical pick would be 6'5" 250 pounds.

DT - Athletic and 300 pounds. If you can't move they don't want you at this point. Things could change but they rarely draft a big run stuffer type like BJ Raji. Raji was a freak and its too bad his career ended early. They want guys that win with leverage and rarely go after DTs taller than 6'4". Long arms should be a value but I don't see them giving too many cares about this.

Edge/OLB - Happy to use super athletic defensive ends as their stand up edges and outside linebackers. minimum of 6'3" and 250 pounds. I think they would prefer guys that are 6'5" and 265 pounds and can run silly times in their underwear. They don't do a lot of dropping into coverage, Barry's defense doesn't seem very complicated for these guys.

LB - Again its seems redundant, but the Packers want optimal size and RAS scores, sure they want instincts but they don't want to overvalue instincts because I think it requires expert eyes while watching game tape and for some reason they would rather put more trust in the RAS score. Quay Walker is one of the least instinctive LBs I have seen in a while but it didn't matter to the Packers when drafting him over the likes of Nakobi Dean or Devin Lloyd. Quay made some bone headed decision but I don't think he is a bad guy and he was second in the NFL for tackles by a rookie. 6'3" 240 pounds would be their ideal. They will only play with two at the most.

Saf - If I sound like a broken record I apologize, but they prefer high RAS scores. I wish they would prefer high intellect and instincts at safety but not sure if they will go this route. The real truth is they don't seem to really value this position in the draft. The highest drafted safety was Savage under Gute in the first round but you really can't find another one drafted until basically the late rounds if at all. Outside of Savage the Packer's safety position is mostly all guys that are over 6'0" and 200 pounds.

CB - RAS SCORE!!! Alexander is obviously one of the best selections the Packers have made in the first round in quite a while. Alexander is 5'10" on a good day, so that would seem the minimum of the height standards in Green Bay, and Stokes was 6'0" so that is only a matter of inches. Stokes's RAS score was 9.38, and Alexander's was 9.54. so really their is your connection. Packers want athletic corners, that they also expect to be physical.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Good post, Nuts! I do have some thoughts on what GB looks for in players.

QB Solid mobility and accuracy. They have not drafted a QB under 6'2' 220 since TT took over. They have not drafted a QB with hands smaller than 9 1/4".

RB They draft mostly bigger RBs. Franklin was drafted in 2013 at 205 pounds. Jones was drafted in 2017 at 208 pounds. That's as small as they've gone. 40 doesn't seem that important, but they generally stay with RBs better than 7.33 in the 3 cone and better than 120" in the broad jump. Scheme fit would be RBs that are good in the zone scheme.

WR They mostly like bigger WRs. The only WRs under 6' that they've drafted are Jennings, Cobb, and Amari Rodgers. Jennings was almost 200 pounds. Rodgers was 212 pounds. Cobb is the big outlier at 5'10" 191 pounds. They seem to be particular about the 3 cone. They stay under 7.19.

TE 3 Cone and Broad seem to be important. Threshold seems to be about 7.23 on the 3 cone and 111" on the broad. I've read that 32" min vertical and 110" min broad indicate NFL success.

OT They like athletes. GB will draft smaller OTs (Bakh, Kyle Murphy, Van Lanen, and Tom were all on the smaller side). They haven't drafted an OT with sub 33" arm length, but they have moved guys inside that had smaller arms (Madison, Stepaniak, Rhyan). Bulaga, Murphy, and Tom were the shortest arms at 33 1/4" that stuck at OT. GB has generally stayed under 5.32 in the 40, 4.75 in the 3 cone, and 7.71 shuttle. I've read that 5.09 40, 4.65 3 cone, and 7.84 shuttle indicate NFL success.

IOL Again, athletes. They will draft smaller IOLs. Linsley, Colledge, Moll, Barbre were all 300 lbs or less. Runyan (306), Hanson (303), and Amichia (302) were also smaller. GB doesn't seem to have a 40 threshold, but they do seem to have a 4.68 shuttle and 7.93 3 cone threshold. I've read that 7.84 3 cone indicates NFL success.

DE They look for size, length, and athleticism. 6'3" with 32 1/2" arm length is the norm. T-Rex Dean Lowry was the outlier. 7.65 3 Cone seems to be the threshold. The last DE above 7.55 3 cone was C.J. Wilson back in 2010. Everbody since Wilson also were 4.46 or less in the shuttle.

DT Most have been 6'3" or taller and 310+ lbs. All have had at least 32" arms. All have had 102"+ broad. There doesn't seem to be a noticeable threshold in the other measurements. They've drafted a guy with 5.00 shuttle (Ford), 7.94 3 cone (Pennel), 26.5" vert (Boyd).

OLB Size. Clay Matthews is the outlier at 6"3 240, but that was back in 2009. Since then, their edges have generally been 6'3"+ 255+ pound. Vince Biegel was the outlier, but that didn't turn out well. They actually don't seem to care about 40 time much. Enagbare ran 4.87. Garvin ran 4.82. They generally draft big edges with a bit of explosiveness (speed to power). Ricky Elmore was an outlier, but the other guys have all jumped at least 117" in the broad since Elmore.

CB Size. They almost always draft CBs that are 5'11"+ and 192+ lbs. They haven't drafted a CB with arms shorter than 30 1/4" since TT took over. Jaire was an outlier, but he tested off the charts in the measurables. Shermar Jean-Charles was the HUGE outlier. He was short and unathletic. I wonder if he was drafted primarily for special teams. Otherwise, his selection made little sense. The rest have had a 7.10- in 3 cone (generally less than 7.00), 34" vert. I've read that 7.00 max 3 cone, 36" min vert, and 4.54 max 40 indicate NFL success.

S Darnell Savage was the smallest they've drafted since they went to a 3-4 at 5'11" 198 lbs. I think they generally like 4.22- for shuttle, 7.16- for 3 cone, 33"+ vert, and 118"+ broad. I've read that 4.59 max 40, 4.05 max shuttle, 7.10 max 3 cone, and 36" min vert indicate NFL success.

This was really getting into the weeds, but these are some thresholds that I look for to see if a player meets the Packers thresholds.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I forgot LBs. They used to have a 233 min lb threshold, but they went under that for McDuffie in 2021 at 227 lbs. They haven't drafted a LB over 4.71 in the 40 and 4.32 in the shuttle since D.J. Smith in 2011. You'd think there are some more thresholds, but Blake Martinez in 2016 was a huge outlier in most other measurables.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I was watching a PFF podcast this morning, and they had an interesting exercise. They each filled out a starting lineup from this year's draft class. I'd like to take it further. I'm going to do a 53 man roster from this year's draft class, and I'll do it with the Packers scheme in mind. That will rule out some players that I may have ranked higher than guys that make this team. Some examples are Zay Flowers (doesn't meet size threshold), O'Cyrus Torrence (doesn't meet athletic threshold, gap scheme fit), Calijah Kancey (doesn't meet size threshold), Nolan Smith (doesn't meet size threshold), Joey Porter (not a scheme fit, press man CB who isn't good in zone).

QB Bryce Young, C.J. Stroud, Anthony Richardson
RB Bijan Robinson (all around RB), Jahmyr Gibbs (3rd down RB/KR), Roschon Johnson (pass pro), Devon Achane (KR)
WR Quentin Johnson (X), Jaxon Smith-Njigba (Z or Y), Jonathan Mingo (Y), Jordan Addison (PR), Jalin Hyatt (deep threat), Cedric Tillman
TE Dalton Kincaid (Flex), Michael Mayer (Combo), Luke Musgrave (backup Flex), Darnell Washington (backup Y)
OL Paris Johnson (LT), Peter Skoronski (LG), John Michael Schmitz (C), Steve Avila (RG), Darnell Wright (RT), Cody Mauch (backup OG), Joe Tippmann (backup OC), Broderick Jones (backup LT), Matthew Bergeron (backup RT)
DL Jalen Carter, Mazi Smith, Bryan Bresee, Keeanu Benton, Zacch Pickens
OLB Will Anderson, Tyree Wilson, Myles Murphy, Lukas Van Ness, Isaiah Foskey
ILB Drew Sanders, Jack Campbell, Trenton Simpson, Daiyan Henley
CB Christian Gonzalez, Devon Witherspoon (OCB/SCB), Deonte Banks, Julius Brents, Darius Rush
S Brian Branch (SCB), Sydney Brown (SS), Antonio Johnson (FS/SCB), Jordan Battle (backup FS), Jammie Robinson (backup SS)

Pick whomever for K, P, and LS.

Zach Charbonnet vs. Roschon Johnson was a tough one. I have Charbonnet ranked a little higher, but I want my third guy to be the best in pass pro.

Kind of a waste of time, but kind of fun.

[Fritz]

I was watching a PFF podcast this morning, and they had an interesting exercise. They each filled out a starting lineup from this year's draft class. I'd like to take it further. I'm going to do a 53 man roster from this year's draft class, and I'll do it with the Packers scheme in mind. That will rule out some players that I may have ranked higher than guys that make this team. Some examples are Zay Flowers (doesn't meet size threshold), O'Cyrus Torrence (doesn't meet athletic threshold, gap scheme fit), Calijah Kancey (doesn't meet size threshold), Nolan Smith (doesn't meet size threshold), Joey Porter (not a scheme fit, press man CB who isn't good in zone).

QB Bryce Young, C.J. Stroud, Anthony Richardson
RB Bijan Robinson (all around RB), Jahmyr Gibbs (3rd down RB/KR), Roschon Johnson (pass pro), Devon Achane (KR)
WR Quentin Johnson (X), Jaxon Smith-Njigba (Z or Y), Jonathan Mingo (Y), Jordan Addison (PR), Jalin Hyatt (deep threat), Cedric Tillman
TE Dalton Kincaid (Flex), Michael Mayer (Combo), Luke Musgrave (backup Flex), Darnell Washington (backup Y)
OL Paris Johnson (LT), Peter Skoronski (LG), John Michael Schmitz (C), Steve Avila (RG), Darnell Wright (RT), Cody Mauch (backup OG), Joe Tippmann (backup OC), Broderick Jones (backup LT), Matthew Bergeron (backup RT)
DL Jalen Carter, Mazi Smith, Bryan Bresee, Keeanu Benton, Zacch Pickens
OLB Will Anderson, Tyree Wilson, Myles Murphy, Lukas Van Ness, Isaiah Foskey
ILB Drew Sanders, Jack Campbell, Trenton Simpson, Daiyan Henley
CB Christian Gonzalez, Devon Witherspoon (OCB/SCB), Deonte Banks, Julius Brents, Darius Rush
S Brian Branch (SCB), Sydney Brown (SS), Antonio Johnson (FS/SCB), Jordan Battle (backup FS), Jammie Robinson (backup SS)

Pick whomever for K, P, and LS.

Zach Charbonnet vs. Roschon Johnson was a tough one. I have Charbonnet ranked a little higher, but I want my third guy to be the best in pass pro.

Kind of a waste of time, but kind of fun.


This can be said about Packerrats, in general.

[RashanGary]

I think Peter skoronsky is gonna be our guy. Top 10 game tape with late first height and arm length dropping him to 15. This is Bakhs last year. Time to lock down that LT spot. And he could easily start at guard his first year too, if you want to get instant impact from that pick.

[Deputy Nutz]

I am not sure the Packers will find value with an offensive lineman in the first round. Second Round, when they have to.

[run pMc]

I think Skoronki would be a dynamite replacement for Runyan Jr., or maybe at LG if you bump out Jenkins to LT. Not sure he's a OT because of size/length, but he's a good technician.
if he becomes the next Zach Martin there's long-term value, but that's a big IF and I agree you really don't want to drop the #15 pick on an OG.

I think after about pick 12 it's kind of a crapshoot and value will be in the eye of the beholder (and the team's scheme fit). I think there's some value at OT at 15. I'm a fan of Darnell Wright and like him a little better than Broderick Jones, although I think Wright is a RT and Jones is a LT prospect.

The logical part of my brain tells me they're most likely going OL or EDGE, but that only means Gute finally takes a WR or that Keion White guy (yuck) at 15.

[Deputy Nutz]

Taking Keion White with the 15th pick would be a total Gute move.

[run pMc]

I'd consider White at 45. Maybe. I can think of 5 players who will probably be there at 45 off the top of my head I'd take before him (if I were Gute) though. Round 3 you can talk me into White, that's the crazy/bust round anyway.

I just think there are better prospects out there. Dude turned 24 in January and is still very raw. How much more upside are you really going to get before he's 30?
Makes a lot more sense to pick a prospect who is still raw if they are 21 or 22.

Will scream at the TV if he goes at 15 to GB.

[Joemailman]

Packers visiting with OT Kadeem Telfort. Big, talented guy with a checkered past. Packers probably want to get a sense of his attitude/commitment.


Overall, Telfort is a bit of a work in progress and there are some effort and character concerns that need to be vetted but there is no denying his physical talent and upside. He could develop into a lower-level starter at either left or right tackle in the right situation.



At his pro day, Telfort measured 6-7 and 322 pounds, with 36″ arms and a 86″ wingspan. He ran the 40-yard dash in 5.45 seconds, hit 24.5″ in the vertical leap, covered 8-0 in the broad jump, finished the short shuttle in 5.10 seconds and the three-cone in 8.70 seconds and completed 19 reps in the benchpress. His Relative Athletic Score is 1.59 out of 10.0.

[run pMc]

Most recent visits (not the full list, see previous page for earlier visits):
17. TE Ben Sims, Baylor
18. TE Michael Mayer, Notre Dame
19. OL Atonio Mafi, UCLA
20. CB Tyrique Stevenson, Miami
21. WR Cole Tucker, NIU
22. TE Josh Whyle, Cincinnati
23. DB Jartavius ‘Quan’ Martin, Illinois
24. OLB Felix Anudike-Uzomah, Kansas State
25. WR Ryan Miller, Furman
26. WR Rashee Rice, SMU
27. OT Kadeem Telfort, UAB

[Arctic Fox]

Should we draft a back up QB or wait until someone releases a back up?

[Arctic Fox]

I Like Mayer, Mafi and Rashee Rice

[Fritz]

Packers visiting with OT Kadeem Telfort. Big, talented guy with a checkered past. Packers probably want to get a sense of his attitude/commitment.

A 1.59 RAS? For real?

I think I might have a higher RAS than that.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Tariq Woolen was a "not my guy" for me last year. :)

[Fritz]

Tariq Woolen was a "not my guy" for me last year. :)

Harv, last year I recall you were really, really excited about Christian Watson, and even moreso when they drafted him. You seem to have been right about the guy (I thought he was injury prone, and he did start that way, but basically I was wrong about him), so I wonder - who is THE one guy this year that you hope will become a Packer (and that has a reasonable chance of being drafted by the team, as opposed to a guy who will be gone in the first ten picks)?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Harv, last year I recall you were really, really excited about Christian Watson, and even moreso when they drafted him. You seem to have been right about the guy (I thought he was injury prone, and he did start that way, but basically I was wrong about him), so I wonder - who is THE one guy this year that you hope will become a Packer (and that has a reasonable chance of being drafted by the team, as opposed to a guy who will be gone in the first ten picks)?

I appreciate you asking. My perfect Packers draft would probably go something like this:

Round 1 - EDGE Myles Murphy
Round 2a - DT Mazi Smith or DT Keeanu Benton
Round 2b - WR Jonathan Mingo
Round 3 - Best available TE (Kincaid, Mayer, Washington, Musgrave, LaPorta, Kraft, or Schoonmaker)
Round 4 - RB Roschon Johnson or RB Kendre Miller
Round 5a - OT Nick Saldiveri or OG Jon Gaines
Round 5b - TE Brenton Strange or TE/WR Elijah Higgins
Late Rounds - QB Clayton Tune, FB/TE Hunter Luepke, WR Grant DuBose, WR Matt Landers, TE Payne Durham, CB Darrell Luter, S Jason Taylor, S Jordan Howden. They'd probably have to trade up from their 7th round picks to get some of these guys.

I like these guys, so I'm thinking some will go higher than projected--but this is sticking to the general range of when they are projected to get drafted.

[HarveyWallbangers]

My sleeper S, Jason Taylor, had an awful game against Kansas State. I liked his tape in other games I watched, but man that was rough. I'm about halfway through safeties to finalize my rankings.

[Deputy Nutz]

Safeties are pretty low budget this year. Seems like they either can't cover but can show up in the run game, or they can't tackle but they can play a little man to man on the slot. Even the guys that were supposed to be high end athletes turned in subpar combine and work out numbers

[HarveyWallbangers]

My guy, WR Grant DuBose, getting some love from PFF's Mike Renner (a Packers fan):

https://twitter.com/PFF_Mike/status/1649008466680324100


On the @EstablishTheRun pod last week I said Charlotte's Grant Dubose was my favorite Day 3 WR

He's got the size (6-2, 201 with a 6-6 wingspan), fluidity (6.89 3-cone), and body control to find a starting role in the league

There's a video embedded within the tweet with some highlights.

[Fritz]

Tariq Woolen was a "not my guy" for me last year. :)

On that note, which first-round selection would make you feel a little sick to your stomach?

[call_me_ishmael]

I appreciate you asking. My perfect Packers draft would probably go something like this:

Round 1 - EDGE Myles Murphy
Round 2a - DT Mazi Smith or DT Keeanu Benton
Round 2b - WR Jonathan Mingo
Round 3 - Best available TE (Kincaid, Mayer, Washington, Musgrave, LaPorta, Kraft, or Schoonmaker)
Round 4 - RB Roschon Johnson or RB Kendre Miller
Round 5a - OT Nick Saldiveri or OG Jon Gaines
Round 5b - TE Brenton Strange or TE/WR Elijah Higgins
Late Rounds - QB Clayton Tune, FB/TE Hunter Luepke, WR Grant DuBose, WR Matt Landers, TE Payne Durham, CB Darrell Luter, S Jason Taylor, S Jordan Howden. They'd probably have to trade up from their 7th round picks to get some of these guys.

I like these guys, so I'm thinking some will go higher than projected--but this is sticking to the general range of when they are projected to get drafted.

I'd be pretty happy with this. I really like the idea of Mazi Smith and LaPorta. I think LaPorta is going to be a good player. If they could find a way to pull this off AND add Hendon Henderson, they've got a stew going.

[Deputy Nutz]

My guy, WR Grant DuBose, getting some love from PFF's Mike Renner (a Packers fan):

https://twitter.com/PFF_Mike/status/1649008466680324100



There's a video embedded within the tweet with some highlights.

He is rated relatively high on on The Draft Network, ranked as their 84th prospect overall. Pro Football Network has him like 837.

[Deputy Nutz]

IF you are the Packers, and the Giants offered you the 25th pick in the draft, the 57th pick, and a third round next year, would you take that trade?
I would. This draft doesn't have home runs after the top 10 picks, even those are sketchy. The Packers have to get a better overall talent level on their roster and I think the more 2nd and 3rd round picks you can get the better. There seems like a blurry line between for sure 1st rounders and possible 2nd and 3rd rounders in 2023

[Deputy Nutz]

Also, I am sort of locked on Jack Campbell for some reason, mostly its his size and athleticism to where I think you could keep him on the field in different roles all three downs. Our Current Campbell could just be replaced by a bigger more athletic Campbell.

Packers most likely won't take him. Not a completely viable need at the moment, but I tell you I like him better than Simpson or Sanders.

[HarveyWallbangers]

He is rated relatively high on on The Draft Network, ranked as their 84th prospect overall. Pro Football Network has him like 837.

TDN is the only site that has him high. TDN = #14 WR, CBS = #46 WR, ESPN = #31 WR, NFL = #38 WR, PFF = #46 WR, The 33rd Team = Not Ranked. I don't trust TDN as much this year since they lost their top two guys, Kyle Crabbs and Joe Marino, but they are the only ones aligned with me on DuBose.

It's funny that Renner tweeted that DuBose is his favorite day 3 WR--yet PFF has him ranked #351 overall. Renner is the guy who sets the PFF draft rankings. :)

[HarveyWallbangers]

IF you are the Packers, and the Giants offered you the 25th pick in the draft, the 57th pick, and a third round next year, would you take that trade?

Easily. The Packers could then take Mayer, Kincaid, a WR at a spot where it's better value--and get extra draft capital. I'm not sure there will be a lot of teams interested in trading up for the #15 pick--unless one of the QBs fell.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Also, I am sort of locked on Jack Campbell for some reason, mostly its his size and athleticism to where I think you could keep him on the field in different roles all three downs. Our Current Campbell could just be replaced by a bigger more athletic Campbell.

Packers most likely won't take him. Not a completely viable need at the moment, but I tell you I like him better than Simpson or Sanders.

He's my #1 LB--although I liked him and didn't love him. He's the only guy with size and serviceable athleticism in this draft--besides Noah Sewell. Trenton Simpson will get overdrafted. I'm higher on Henley than Simpson. There is limited size and length in this class.

[run pMc]

On that note, which first-round selection would make you feel a little sick to your stomach?

I can think of several, especially if they're picking at 15 (or higher).

- The Brians (Bresee, Branch)
- Keion White
- a QB. TE or RB

[Deputy Nutz]

Unless one of the top 3 edges dropped I don't see it as a viable 1st round need. I don't think we need a 1st round defensive tackle, or a cornerback. I think the Packers need a safety but Branch isn't what I would consider a top half of the first round talent. I think their are two or three TEs that have first round grades in my book, but I personally wouldn't take any of them with the 15th pick. Offensive Tackle is another direction where there would be value at the 15th pick especially if the top 2 (JSN and Quentin Johnson) were already gone.

I feel like everyone in this draft seems to be a reach at 15. Especially based on positional needs of the Packers.

[Joemailman]

Unless one of the top 3 edges dropped I don't see it as a viable 1st round need. I don't think we need a 1st round defensive tackle, or a cornerback. I think the Packers need a safety but Branch isn't what I would consider a top half of the first round talent. I think their are two or three TEs that have first round grades in my book, but I personally wouldn't take any of them with the 15th pick. Offensive Tackle is another direction where there would be value at the 15th pick especially if the top 2 (JSN and Quentin Johnson) were already gone.

I feel like everyone in this draft seems to be a reach at 15. Especially based on positional needs of the Packers.

If everyone at 15 is a reach, do you trade up or trade down to avoid reaching?

[run pMc]

IF you are the Packers, and the Giants offered you the 25th pick in the draft, the 57th pick, and a third round next year, would you take that trade?
I would. This draft doesn't have home runs after the top 10 picks, even those are sketchy. The Packers have to get a better overall talent level on their roster and I think the more 2nd and 3rd round picks you can get the better. There seems like a blurry line between for sure 1st rounders and possible 2nd and 3rd rounders in 2023

Yes.


Also, I am sort of locked on Jack Campbell for some reason, mostly its his size and athleticism to where I think you could keep him on the field in different roles all three downs. Our Current Campbell could just be replaced by a bigger more athletic Campbell.

I think he's good, and would make an good pairing with Quay or Devondre, or even if they did some kind of 3 LB look. He checks most of the boxes for what you want in an ILB and would be a problem for QB dropping into zones at 6-5. He's the top ILB on the board IMO. Drew Sanders is interesting but he misses too many tackles -- GB has enough of those guys -- and is more of a ILB/OLB tweener. Trenton Simpson is ok, but he looks much smaller than Campbell and I just like Jack better.

Either way, would be very surprised if they took another ILB high after Quay unless they have concerns about him (I don't think they do), and Devondre's contract keeps him here for at least this season.

Didn't think much of Grant Dubose at first, watched him a couple of times and he's grown on me. Could be a sneaky good late Day 3 pickup if he lasts.

[run pMc]

If everyone at 15 is a reach, do you trade up or trade down to avoid reaching?

I'd love to trade down to get a decent late R1 player and pick up an extra Day 2 pick. I think EDGE is a need; Gary was a big part of their pass rush and he won't be the same for most of the year as he comes back from an ACL.
I think Preston/Enagbare are ok, but are they consistently good enough as pass rushers? Enagbare is a good #3 Edge, Preston is on the backside of 30 and your depth after them is not good. Seems like a good opportunity to find the replacement for Preston, tbh.

All that said, I think there is a lot of EDGE depth in the draft so they don't have to pick one in R1, but I do think they should take one at some point. The best ED's are usually found early in the draft but I could see them take one in R2-4 if there's a guy who falls like Enagbare did last year.

[Deputy Nutz]

If everyone at 15 is a reach, do you trade up or trade down to avoid reaching?

Right now I would trade down, not a lot would entice me to move up. Packers have a lot of roles and holes to fill, not one high first round pick is going to put this team over.

[run pMc]

Right now I would trade down, not a lot would entice me to move up. Packers have a lot of roles and holes to fill, not one high first round pick is going to put this team over.

100% Agree. I think you want to move around as much as possible to get as many top 100 picks as you can. There's not a lot of top-end talent, but there is ample Day2-level talent, and GB has multiple roster spots in need of help.

[Fritz]

I would make that trade with the Giants, for the reasons Nutz stated - this team needs an infusion of talent, first, and secondly this draft doesn't seem to have a lot of home-run type of guys, from what (little) I've read. So get an extra second rounder, get an extra third for next year when the draft looks to be deeper, and when you get to next year's draft, just make sure you trade that third away (I don't care if you do it to move up or down) so you don't screw up the pick.

[run pMc]

I would make that trade with the Giants, for the reasons Nutz stated - this team needs an infusion of talent, first, and secondly this draft doesn't seem to have a lot of home-run type of guys, from what (little) I've read. So get an extra second rounder, get an extra third for next year when the draft looks to be deeper, and when you get to next year's draft, just make sure you trade that third away (I don't care if you do it to move up or down) so you don't screw up the pick.

Yes. Two 3rds for a 2nd, or trade your 3rds for a boatload of 4ths lol
Until they draft a R3 player who pans out, it's a cursed round.

[Fritz]

Morgan Burnett in 2010 was the last really good third round pick the Packers had, as far as I can tell.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It feels good when somebody you identified as being undervalued starts rising late in the draft process. I feel like I did a better job this year than most years--probably because I've actually had the time to watch film on all of the Shrine Game, Senior Bowl, and Scouting Combine players.

QB Clayton Tune - Projected as late round/UDFA. Getting some minor buzz. Some think he could go relatively early on day 3 now. Opinions seem to vary a lot on him.
RB Roschon Johnson - Projected outside the top 10 at RB. He is the consensus #8 RB now.
FB/TE/RB Hunter Luepke - He's been injured, so his stock hasn't done much.
WR Jonathan Mingo - Projected as a 4th round guy. There is talk that he could go relatively early on day 2 now.
WR Grant DuBose - Projected as late round/UDFA. Renner is talking about him as his favorite day 3 sleeper now.
WR Matt Landers - Projected as late round/UDFA. There is talk of him going in rounds 4-5 now.
TE Luke Schoonmaker - His stock has stayed about the same, but I feel like he's risen closer to Kraft and the top 6--whereas before he was considered the start of the next tier.
OT/OG Peter Skoronski - His stock is the same.
OT Nick Saldiveri - His stock is the same, but I feel like he's going to go higher than you think.
OT Earl Bostick - I haven't really heard anything about him.
IOL Ricky Stromberg - Projected as around the 20th IOL. He is the consensus #14 IOL now. I think he might even go higher than that.
IOL Jon Gaines - Projected as late round/UDFA. He is projected to go in 4th-5th round guy now.
IOL Braeden Daniels - I haven't really heard anything about him.
DT Mazi Smith - His stock is about the same, but I'm hearing more talk of him going late round 1.
DT Keeanu Benton - His stock has risen a bit. He could go very early on day 2 now.
LB Jack Campbell - His stock is about the same. I was kind of late to the party on him. I jumped on when he tested well at the combine. His film was already pretty good.
LB Isaiah Moore - I haven't really heard anything about him.
CB D.J. Turner - Projected as 3rd/4th round prospect. I was on his bandwagon before the combine. People are talking early day 2 now--since his 4.26 40 at the combine.
S Jason Taylor - Projected as a UDFA. I've seen him ranked as high as S #10 and S #12 on two boards. He could go in the middle of day 3 now.

[HarveyWallbangers]

It's annoying to see beat writers continously talking about how certain NFL teams select high RAS score players. I think most team's fans think this about their own team. Thing is: most of the prospects get high end RAS scores now.

* Out of the 24 RBs who did most of the tests 15 had a RAS score of 7.50 or higher, so over 60% of the RBs are in the top 25% percentile of testing.
* 10 of the top 11 TEs tested, nine of those 10 had an 8 or higher RAS score (only Michael Mayer at 7.10 was lower).
* 13 of the top 17 OTs tested, 12 of those 13 had an 8 or higher RAS score (only Anton Harrison at 7.40 was lower).
* Three of the top IOL were lower than 8, but between 6 and 8. The next 7 guys all had a RAS score higher than 8. One other guy, Joe Tippmann, would have been higher than 8 if he tested.

I could go, but you get the point. :) Safety seems like the only position group where RAS scores were mediocre this year.

[run pMc]

The other thing about RAS is that you can do just the drills you're good at, skip the drills you suck at, and get a high RAS score but really it's only a partial RAS profile.
I think Kent Lee Platte needs to put an asterisk or something on partial RAS profiles. The scores end up looking skewed to me otherwise.

A nice 40 time is nice, but agility drills often get skipped and for many positions those are more important.

[RashanGary]

It's annoying to see beat writers continously talking about how certain NFL teams select high RAS score players. I think most team's fans think this about their own team. Thing is: most of the prospects get high end RAS scores now.

* Out of the 24 RBs who did most of the tests 15 had a RAS score of 7.50 or higher, so over 60% of the RBs are in the top 25% percentile of testing.
* 10 of the top 11 TEs tested, nine of those 10 had an 8 or higher RAS score (only Michael Mayer at 7.10 was lower).
* 13 of the top 17 OTs tested, 12 of those 13 had an 8 or higher RAS score (only Anton Harrison at 7.40 was lower).
* Three of the top IOL were lower than 8, but between 6 and 8. The next 7 guys all had a RAS score higher than 8. One other guy, Joe Tippmann, would have been higher than 8 if he tested.

I could go, but you get the point. :) Safety seems like the only position group where RAS scores were mediocre this year.


Maybe training has gotten better for these specific drills over the years. But RAS is relative to the whole so if guys are doing better consistently, that would make the relative part go up over time and you wouldn’t see guys consistently beating it anymore unless they keep making improvements in preparation, but you’d think there’s a limit to that.

[Deputy Nutz]

Also, people forget that size of the athlete is a major factor in the RAS score. There seems to be some very diminutive receivers in this draft with RAS scores under 8.5. There are nothing particularly glaring about their times or scores, just compared to their actual size their RAS score is low.

[Deputy Nutz]

The deeper I dive into this draft the more I like the middle rounds. For one, grades and rankings are all over the place. secondly I think there is mid tier talent that teams can attack by simply trading back in this draft. If the Jets refuse to give up their first round pick for Rodgers, which I don't blame them for, then The Packers should try to get at least one of their 2nd round picks, go after their 4th round pick and switch out a bunch of picks with them this year, maybe try to pry away a second rounder next year as well. I am not sure if the Packers plan on clearing up this mess before the draft or not, which is a terrible mistake by the way.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Maybe training has gotten better for these specific drills over the years. But RAS is relative to the whole so if guys are doing better consistently, that would make the relative part go up over time and you wouldn’t see guys consistently beating it anymore unless they keep making improvements in preparation, but you’d think there’s a limit to that.

RAS is a historical measurement, so you’ll only see incremental differences—until today’s bigger, more athletic players are a bigger percentage of the pool. Until then, most are going to get high RAS scores. They should do a RAS comparing the athletes to each other in any given year. I’d like to see that.

[Joemailman]

Peter Bukowski
@Peter_Bukowski

Friday news dump take: If Jack Campbell hadn't done athletic testing, he'd be a middle round pick.

The tape does not match the athletic profile at all.

What do you think Harvey?

[run pMc]

I'll be curious to see what Harvey says, but I think that while he's not uber-athletic he's got range to the sideline. I think he's athletic and instinctive enough to be a solid pro. He's not Luke Kuechley but he looks like a guy you could pick up on Day 2 and plug him into the lineup for 8-10 years. Side note: Peter Bukowski has a lot of hot takes, and many of them are bad IMO. To me, he's borderline clickbait.

---

One guy I'm just getting around to watching is Josh Whyle. GB brought him in for a visit and he's... better than I was expecting. I thought he'd be some late round schmuck, but I could see him as the Tonyan replacement. He's still a Day 3 guy but I wouldn't be mad if they drafted him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I didn’t love Campbell, but I like him. I liked Quay more. Henley might be the most impressive LB, but he’s 225 pounds. I think the Packers still prefer longer, bigger LBs.

I actually liked Whyle quite a bit. Close to Schoonmaker, but his combine measurements were not to my liking. I think he measured 6’7” 248. Hopefully, he played at a higher weight. I have him as the clear #8 TE.

[Fritz]

I didn’t love Campbell, but I like him. I liked Quay more. Henley might be the most impressive LB, but he’s 225 pounds. I think the Packers still prefer longer, bigger LBs.

I actually liked Whyle quite a bit. Close to Schoonmaker, but his combine measurements were not to my liking. I think he measured 6’7” 248. Hopefully, he played at a higher weight. I have him as the clear #8 TE.

Good article in ACME on what the Packers' draft strategy might look like. It's based upon the players they had visit, and when those players are projected to be drafted.

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2023/4/21/23693439/2023-nfl-draft-green-bay-packers-visits-draft-day-strategy-tight-end-safety-edge-rusher

[RashanGary]

RAS is a historical measurement, so you’ll only see incremental differences—until today’s bigger, more athletic players are a bigger percentage of the pool. Until then, most are going to get high RAS scores. They should do a RAS comparing the athletes to each other in any given year. I’d like to see that.

Id like to see RAS 1 year, 5 year, 10 year, splits of various decades, and all time.

[red]

is TE really that deep this year

according to one of my favorite sites that i've followed for years, it looks pretty weak

https://draftace.com/2023-tight-ends/

he only has 2 in this draft with high end potential, then a handful of guys with average starter potential, then a bunch of shit

he has like 5 TEs worth drafting

[run pMc]

Yes, it's that deep.
Last year Trey McBride was the top TE taken at #55. This year 3-4 TE will likely be taken by the 55th pick.
(Mayer, Kincaid, Washington, maybe La Porta)

McBride got a 8.13 RAS, there are several TEs with better scores and pedigrees. Talent pool is much deeper.
Last year 19 TE's got drafted, how many did this draft site think were draftable then?

FWIW Safety is much worse this year than last year.

On another note, GB hasn't even had average starters at TE for most of the last decade, getting that would be an improvement.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I really like McBride last year. I think he belongs with this top group, but he was head and shoulders above everybody else last year. This year, you can go all the way down to Schoonmaker to find guys better than last year’s group after McBride.

[RashanGary]

RAS is a historical measurement, so you’ll only see incremental differences—until today’s bigger, more athletic players are a bigger percentage of the pool. Until then, most are going to get high RAS scores. They should do a RAS comparing the athletes to each other in any given year. I’d like to see that.

As much work as he put in compiling the data, I would think it would be a short step to tag the data in a way that you could separate our older data and make scores custom to timeframes. Just go back through the data and make a new column for date and then make new searches that weed out by date. The guy is kind of a cult hero among draft niks. He should up his game.

[run pMc]

As much work as he put in compiling the data, I would think it would be a short step to tag the data in a way that you could separate our older data and make scores custom to timeframes. Just go back through the data and make a new column for date and then make new searches that weed out by date. The guy is kind of a cult hero among draft niks. He should up his game.

He has a website where you can do some RAS comparisons and dig thru old RAS cards. Have you seen that?
https://ras.football/

I think the scores are custom to timeframe, they are the scores as of and up to that year- a player considered an elite athlete 10 years ago might be above average now. Am I misunderstanding you?

[run pMc]

Would Packers fandom completely meltdown if they drafted Bijon Robinson?

[Joemailman]

Would Packers fandom completely meltdown if they drafted Bijon Robinson?

Maybe not to the level of the Love or Gary picks. But yes, there would be a negative reaction.

[bobblehead]

Would Packers fandom completely meltdown if they drafted Bijon Robinson?

Not if they followed it up with an announcement that they traded Jones for a 2nd.

[RashanGary]

He has a website where you can do some RAS comparisons and dig thru old RAS cards. Have you seen that?
https://ras.football/

I think the scores are custom to timeframe, they are the scores as of and up to that year- a player considered an elite athlete 10 years ago might be above average now. Am I misunderstanding you?

I don’t know if the swing would be that drastic, but guys are generally doing better now, so a high score now is a little better than 10 years ago.

[run pMc]

Many players are skipping drills which can inflate their score, plus the science and training keeps getting better. I'd expect the scores to be skewed higher toward more recent college players.

If I have a great 40, vert and broad jump, I'm certainly fast and explosive...and result in a nice high RAS.
It doesn't say anything about my agility and if I don't test those at the combine or pro day my RAS doesn't take a dent or get an asterisk.
Personally I think players should just default get a '5' on any drill they don't test in.

The scores are compared by position over all time, so there are more players/scores. A high score now is just as impressive as the same score 10 years ago... it attempts to be a relative score. Relative to the era and other players. It might not be relative comparing players across say...20 years because players are slightly more athletic now.

I suspect we're saying similar things.

[RashanGary]

We have the 13th pick now. That’s a couple player jump. Maybe we get a couple first round picks to a team that wants a QB.

[Fritz]

Guter does not seem afraid to jump around. We'll see who's there at #13. And then we'll know what Guter thinks of the players available at that spot, whether he takes one or trades down.

[Deputy Nutz]

We have the 13th pick now. That’s a couple player jump. Maybe we get a couple first round picks to a team that wants a QB.

Only way it was really worth giving up the 5th round pick is if the Packers move the 13th for more draft capitol.

[Joemailman]

Only way it was really worth giving up the 5th round pick is if the Packers move the 13th for more draft capitol.

Or they have a specific player in mind they want and thought the Jets might want the same player.

[Deputy Nutz]

I'll be curious to see what Harvey says, but I think that while he's not uber-athletic he's got range to the sideline. I think he's athletic and instinctive enough to be a solid pro. He's not Luke Kuechley but he looks like a guy you could pick up on Day 2 and plug him into the lineup for 8-10 years. Side note: Peter Bukowski has a lot of hot takes, and many of them are bad IMO. To me, he's borderline clickbait.

---

One guy I'm just getting around to watching is Josh Whyle. GB brought him in for a visit and he's... better than I was expecting. I thought he'd be some late round schmuck, but I could see him as the Tonyan replacement. He's still a Day 3 guy but I wouldn't be mad if they drafted him.

Well I am not Harvey, and although I do like the testing numbers and size of Campbell I am not sure that that those measurables show up on film. He is not great against the zone schemes, much better against gap runs than zone. Doesn't get off blocks very well, at least against Iowa St and Kentucky. Also in those games he seems a bit slow on his reads and again needs to do a much better job of engaging at the right time with offensive linemen and then getting off the block to make a play. He is rarely the first guy to the ball in those two films. Reminds me of AJ Hawk in the NFL, not terrible but leaves you expecting and wanting more considering their athleticism.

[Teamcheez1]

Only way it was really worth giving up the 5th round pick is if the Packers move the 13th for more draft capitol.

This is where I’m at. We may be in the right position for someone to move up and draft a QB. We’ll have to see how the board falls. We could certainly pick up some good players to fill some holes by moving down.

[sharpe1027]

You can't know whether 13 or 15 makes a difference until you see how the draft unfolds. It's not just about trade value either. A player you really like could make it to 13 but not 15.

End of the day, you'll do better on average with 13 instead of 15. Ya gotta get value where you can, even if it's not guaranteed.

[Bretsky]

You can't know whether 13 or 15 makes a difference until you see how the draft unfolds. It's not just about trade value either. A player you really like could make it to 13 but not 15.

End of the day, you'll do better on average with 13 instead of 15. Ya gotta get value where you can, even if it's not guaranteed.


It would be really funny if the OSA WR fell to us

He is the perfect fit.

A WR in ROUND ONE !!!!!!!!!!!!:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::shock:

[red]

It would be really funny if the OSA WR fell to us

He is the perfect fit.

A WR in ROUND ONE !!!!!!!!!!!!:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::shock:

that would seem about right, draft defense in the first for as long as i can remember while you're fans are screaming for you to get your QB some help

then finally spend a first on a WR a few days after you get rid of the guy

[Fritz]

You can't know whether 13 or 15 makes a difference until you see how the draft unfolds. It's not just about trade value either. A player you really like could make it to 13 but not 15.

End of the day, you'll do better on average with 13 instead of 15. Ya gotta get value where you can, even if it's not guaranteed.

Just saw an article on ACME that the Steelers are itching to move up from 17 to get an offensive tackle. Don’t know what the Packers’ plan is, but that would be an option in terms of trading back and picking up an extra third or fourth or whatever it would be.

[red]

Just saw an article on ACME that the Steelers are itching to move up from 17 to get an offensive tackle. Don’t know what the Packers’ plan is, but that would be an option in terms of trading back and picking up an extra third or fourth or whatever it would be.

i'd rather stay put and draft our own top OT

[Deputy Nutz]

Not a huge fan of drafting an offensive tackle in the first round, and not a fan of using the 13th pick on an offensive tackle. I think this draft has some depth at the position and you can get really good value in round 2 or round 3.

None of these receivers are worth moving into the 13th pick to draft. Maybe a Edge player like Miles Murphy or Wilson would make sense. Maybe one of the top corners if they fell but let someone else trade up with you that actually needs those dudes.

[sharpe1027]

Just saw an article on ACME that the Steelers are itching to move up from 17 to get an offensive tackle. Don’t know what the Packers’ plan is, but that would be an option in terms of trading back and picking up an extra third or fourth or whatever it would be.

Should be a late third, which they don't have.

[Joemailman]

Did the Packers trade 1st round picks with the Jets so they could trade down to get a late 3rd round pick? I doubt it. If they're going to trade down, they'll want a 2nd in return.

[Joemailman]

NFL Notifications
@NFLNotify

������������������������������ ������������������������
After acquiring the 13th pick in the draft, the #Packers plan to draft WR Jaxon Smith-Njigba if available, per source.

A new weapon for QB1 Jordan Love?

I guess that settles it. Hard to argue with source.

[Joemailman]

Interesting consensus big board. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1em3lUAc1HZi0lH3Tv4XKbIyGu_6yCUYBb9z_0dw9BmU/edit#gid=0

[Deputy Nutz]

Not sure I can tell you the difference between Jaxon Smith Njigba and Zay Flowers. Sure JSN is a bit taller and larger frame, but all the other numbers are pretty similar.

[run pMc]

I use these for consensus boards:
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2023-nfl-draft-industry-consensus-big-board/
https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2023/consensus-big-board-2023?pos=ALL

They tend to use more than a handful of boards, so larger sample size.

In Gute's presser he mentioned moving around twice, and at one point saying he'd rather have more picks (volume) so I wouldn't be surprised if they are looking to trade down and pick up an extra day 2 pick.
I think they go either OT or EDGE in R1, they also seem to be looking at a number of defensive player mocked in R2 or late R1.

I could see Gute pulling something like what he did back in 2018 with trading out and then back into R1 to get Jaire, picking up a future R1. If they did that and Rodgers plays 65% of the snaps for NYJ they'd have 3 R1 picks in 2024.
Gotta find a team to deal with.

As for PIT, they have been making noise for a couple weeks about moving up for a tackle. They also have the 32nd pick, I could see a pick swap happening with them - 13 & 45 for PIT's 17, 32, and R5 or something like that.

[Joemailman]

I use these for consensus boards:
https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2023-nfl-draft-industry-consensus-big-board/
https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2023/consensus-big-board-2023?pos=ALL

They tend to use more than a handful of boards, so larger sample size.

In Gute's presser he mentioned moving around twice, and at one point saying he'd rather have more picks (volume) so I wouldn't be surprised if they are looking to trade down and pick up an extra day 2 pick.
I think they go either OT or EDGE in R1, they also seem to be looking at a number of defensive player mocked in R2 or late R1.

I could see Gute pulling something like what he did back in 2018 with trading out and then back into R1 to get Jaire, picking up a future R1. If they did that and Rodgers plays 65% of the snaps for NYJ they'd have 3 R1 picks in 2024.
Gotta find a team to deal with.

As for PIT, they have been making noise for a couple weeks about moving up for a tackle. They also have the 32nd pick, I could see a pick swap happening with them - 13 & 45 for PIT's 17, 32, and R5 or something like that.

Someone on another forum mentioned that 13 and 78 could net 17 and 49. Comes out pretty close on trade value chart.

[bobblehead]

Not sure I can tell you the difference between Jaxon Smith Njigba and Zay Flowers. Sure JSN is a bit taller and larger frame, but all the other numbers are pretty similar.

Size matters.

[bobblehead]

A guy flying under the radar is Nolan Smith. He could be a guy who slots in nicely. He will start his career as a twitchy 3rd down rush specialist, but if he can add 20 pounds of muscle could be the best of a very deep edge class in a couple years.

[RashanGary]

One thing I appreciate about packerrats is we’re a little more rational here vs general packer Twitter. Packer Twitter is all in on JSN and a TE. We’re considering edges, OL and other positions here. Makes me feel more sane to not be bombarded with WR shit all day.

[Joemailman]

A guy flying under the radar is Nolan Smith. He could be a guy who slots in nicely. He will start his career as a twitchy 3rd down rush specialist, but if he can add 20 pounds of muscle could be the best of a very deep edge class in a couple years.

If you're talking middle of the 1st round, I think he's currently too much of a tweener to take that chance. 2nd round, I'm down with it. Trade down to about 25, I'd think about it.

[jklowan]

I am hoping a trade down with Pitt to 17 add our 3rd and pick up another 2nd, 1 st and 3 seconds and we are talking OT/TE/DT/WR not in that order persay but you get my drift

[Joemailman]

Packer thresholds big board.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fuk1ZeiXwBgh4ip?format=png&name=large

[jklowan]

My dream would be to find a way for these players

Darnell Wright/Darnell Washington/Luke Musgrave/Cedric Tillman/Gervon Dexter/Isaih Foskey/Ji'Ayir Brown not sure it's possible but I'd be over the moon with that hall

[MadScientist]

If Jaxon Smith Njigba is there at 13, screw trading down and grab him. If not, trading with Pitt and picking up a top TE sounds like a good strategy.

[Spaulding]

Packer thresholds big board.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fuk1ZeiXwBgh4ip?format=png&name=large

Where are Skronski and Kancey on your board? I'm guessing the former is top 15 and the latter is 16 to 32? I wouldn't mind seeing either in Green and Gold although Kancey would require a trade down to make his pick not a reach at 13.

[run pMc]

Skoronki would be an IOL, Kancey wouldn't meet Packer thresholds. Kancey is lightning quick and a fun player, but will get absolutely destroyed in the run game at the pro level.
This is far from an exhaustive list since Skoronki (among others) is missing. He'd be in their thresholds at IOL I'd think but I struggle to see them taking a G at 13. He's a consensus top 15 player though.

[jklowan]

If Jaxon Smith Njigba is there at 13, screw trading down and grab him. If not, trading with Pitt and picking up a top TE sounds like a good strategy.

I might be alone on this but I would hate that pick and might destroy my tv if it happens. Jaxon Smith Njigba is waaaaaaaaaay overated in this draft give me a reciever in the 2nd or 3rd and I bet they are better longterm, ymmv

[run pMc]

JSN is good and I like him, but I think he's more in the 16-32 range. He'll play mostly in the slot which isn't as bad as many make it out to be. That said, you could find most of his production in Day 2.
There are a lot of players where taking them at 13 feels way too rich, and a number of players will get overdrafted. There's depth but not a lot of top-end talent.

[Joemailman]

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2023/04/BFF01C4B-C913-4D03-A21D-329F3D653027.png

[red]

I might be alone on this but I would hate that pick and might destroy my tv if it happens. Jaxon Smith Njigba is waaaaaaaaaay overated in this draft give me a reciever in the 2nd or 3rd and I bet they are better longterm, ymmv

i'm with you

he was lost for all but the first 3 games last season because of a hamstring, so he does sound like packer people

i don't buy at all that we "traded up to get in front of the pats to get him". we traded up to get in front of the pats because the team we were trying to trade rodgers too just happened to have the pick in front of the pats.

the trade up wasn't some calculated draft move, unless trading rodgers was somwhow part of some master scheme to draft this WR all along

[Spaulding]

Skoronki would be an IOL, Kancey wouldn't meet Packer thresholds. Kancey is lightning quick and a fun player, but will get absolutely destroyed in the run game at the pro level.
This is far from an exhaustive list since Skoronki (among others) is missing. He'd be in their thresholds at IOL I'd think but I struggle to see them taking a G at 13. He's a consensus top 15 player though.

Thanks for the clarification. Was thinking that Skronski might be able to hold up at tackle even with the short arms. Then again sounds like he might be Robert Gallery the second there and would need to move to guard to play at a reasonable high level.

Just hope it's not Kincaid at #13 as I think that's too high for a TE.

[red]

Packer thresholds big board.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fuk1ZeiXwBgh4ip?format=png&name=large

well thats why we traded up from 15 to 13. theres only 13 guys worth being in the top 15

only 23 guys worth drafting in the first round. woof

glad we didn't make the playoffs

[Sparkey]

13 is that area where teams are going to try and trade up to get Bijan Robinson.

[Joemailman]

13 is that area where teams are going to try and trade up to get Bijan Robinson.

Would this site blow up if Robinson was the pick?

[King Friday]

I’m very good with Jaxon. This team needs offensive weapons, and to me he’s the best one in this draft. I don’t get the people who dump on him for what happened this year. He was a beast for the Buckeyes, and somehow made a huge name for himself out of the shadow of Olave and Wilson. Grab him and whatever is left at TE in the early 2nd and Love has some talent to grow with.

[run pMc]

Thanks for the clarification. Was thinking that Skronski might be able to hold up at tackle even with the short arms. Then again sounds like he might be Robert Gallery the second there and would need to move to guard to play at a reasonable high level.

Just hope it's not Kincaid at #13 as I think that's too high for a TE.

Yeah, I think 13 is wayyy too rich for a non-generational TE. If they trade down to 25 and take Mayer (there are rumors) I wouldn't be excited but I wouldn't hate it either. Depends on who else they take. I mean, Jalin Hyatt and Mayer wouldn't be my choices but could still be fun. Apparently, Tony Pauline is saying the Packers want JSN at 13. This scares me something awful. I like JSN but I think that's a reach. Also, GB never takes WR in R1, and basically everything you hear pre-draft is subterfuge.
Please Gute, be smart with 13.

[run pMc]

13 is that area where teams are going to try and trade up to get Bijan Robinson.

I heard PHI at 10 for Bijon. Makes some sense actually, they lost Miles Sanders and he'd be a beast behind that OL and with Hurts as a threat as well.

Have a hard time seeing GB taking him at 13, but I could see someone wanting to trade up to take him if he's there. More likely the OT run is midway through at 13 and teams will be looking to move up to grab one, or one of the top CBs. It's a good spot to move down from if you have several equally rated players available, or if the next one you really like is likely to still be there at 20. Where Levis and Richardson go (and possibly Hooker) could impact who is available.

[King Friday]

If JSN has played this year, it is likely he would’ve been a top 5 pick. That is the kind of talent he is, so be glad he was injured and now may be available at 13. I doubt he lasts that long though.

[King Friday]

I also like Kuntz. Raw as hell, but someone who I think could develop into a hell of a TE if you have some patience.

[King Friday]

Luke Musgrave = 6'6' 253, 4.61 40, 1.58 10, 36" vertical, 10'5" broad, 4.41 shuttle, 7.09 3 cone, 19 bench
Travis Kelce = 6'5" 255, 4.61 40, 1.61 10, 35" vertical, 10'4" broad, 4.42 shuttle, 7.09 3 cone

Crazy how similar they are physically.

Kuntz = 6’7” 255, 4.55 40, 1.57 10, 40” vert, 10’8” broad, 4.12 shuttle, 6.87 cone

Why settle?

[Bretsky]

If Jaxon Smith Njigba is there at 13, screw trading down and grab him. If not, trading with Pitt and picking up a top TE sounds like a good strategy.



IMO he is the perfect fit for what our offense needs

[call_me_ishmael]

IMO he is the perfect fit for what our offense needs

I totally agree. As much as I like defense, I'd like to see them load up with talent like they did for ARod. Make it as easy as possible for the young QB the next few years.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I wouldn’t love or hate JSN, but I’d rather them get somebody like Myles Murphy in round 1, then Mingo or Tillman and the best available TE in round 2.

[Fritz]

I wouldn’t love or hate JSN, but I’d rather them get somebody like Myles Murphy in round 1, then Mingo or Tillman and the best available TE in round 2.

Mingo - bingo!

[run pMc]

Mingo - bingo!

I keep thinking of Mongo from Blazing Saddles.

[run pMc]

Kuntz = 6’7” 255, 4.55 40, 1.57 10, 40” vert, 10’8” broad, 4.12 shuttle, 6.87 cone

Why settle?

Gb supposedly likes him, but whoa is he raw. Watch film that isn't just highlights and you'll see someone who needs a lot of work. He might be able to give you some Gesicki-lite snaps early, but MIA didn't have a use for him this year, not sure MLF would.
Maybe he can play flier on ST lol. Day 3 guy. A more athletic version of a guy they already have signed, Austin Allen.

[Bretsky]

Mingo - bingo!



We say the same thing every year. Hopefully we have learned our lessons from passing up quality in the past and have the opportunity to draft the best wr in the draft. Personally I don’t think he will be there at 13

[Deputy Nutz]

Based on factors and what the Packers are looking for in terms of size, production, and RAS score Offense.

QB - I would be surprised if the Packers take a QB higher than the 4th round

Clayton Tune Houston- 6'2.5" 220LBs
I like his footwork in the pocket and his ability to keep his eyes down field. I trust his arm strength and accuracy. Strong sense of awareness in the pocket

Jake Haener Fresno 6'0" 207lbs
Teams will probably pass on him because of his height, Age and possible arm strength but he can play QB at the next level due to his reasonably high IQ and high level athleticism and ability to make plays

Tyler Bagent Shepard 6'3" 215lbs
Small school Division 2 kid with a strong arm and willingness to stand in the pocket to make the throws. Ideal height and size. Teams could shy away from him because of his pedigree.

Max Duggan TCU 6'2" 215lbs
Sneaky athletic and leadership would be his two highest redeemable traits. He has average arm accuracy and needs to have a better football IQ but he can excel when throwing the ball downfield.

RB - Packers shouldn't reach high in the draft for a back, really no team should.

Chris Rodriquez Kentucky 6'0" 217lbs
Prototypical size and has good burst and vision for what you are getting in a late round draft pick.

Roschon Johnson Texas 6'0" 220lbs
Good frame and weight, and has decent acceleration for his size. For the most part he shared carries at Texas with Bijan Robinson.

Deneric Prince Tulsa 6'0" 216
Great testing times and can run, sort of an all or nothing type back based on his production.

Evan Hull Northwestern 5'10" 209lb
Zone scheme back that has above average vision, although he has higher than average test score doesn't exactly play with break away speed

FB/TE - Obviously the Packers have a need at this position and this draft has pretty decent value throughout the draft, the Packers want multiple TEs for different roles.

Darnell Washington Georgia 6'7" 268lbs
His value as of right now is a blocker but demonstrated he has the physical attributes to get down the field and create match up problems for defenses.

Luke Musgrave Oregon St 6'6" 250
Lean on film, not someone I would pay to run block 35 times a game but he can split the seam better than just about anyone in this draft. Probably the best receiving threat in the draft

Sam LaPorta Iowa 6'4" 250
Doesn't have the exact height you are looking for, but he checks all the boxes

Payne Durham Purdue 6'6" 255
Good frame and can make a living blocking and could be a rotational guy in both the run game and pass game. Team might shy away from his limited down field speed

Josh Whyle Cincy 6'6.5" 248
Good height and can be a threat in the passing game. Needs to improve as an inline blocker. Could potential be a matchup issue for defenses

Zach Kuntz Old Dominion 6'7" 250
Small school kid with big upside. 10.0 for a RAS score, not many kids his size can run a sub 4.6 forty. Can he play at the next level?

Brandon Strange Penn St 6'4"255
Nothing great about Strange, but the Packers could find value in him late in the draft as a y-off blocker

Hunter Luepke North Dakota St 6'1" 230
Obviously Harv loves him, but I watch a lot of NDSU and his injury really hurt their chances of repeating as national champions. He catches the ball decently out of the backfield and has a strong willingness to block. At NDSU it was blocking out of the halfback position for QB runs.

IOL - Intelligent and guys that can move their feet are important in picking up stunts in the pass game and coming off combo blocks and getting to the next level in the Packers zone running scheme

Joe Tippmann Wisconsin 6'6" 320
Big athletic kid that mostly plays center but the Badgers moved guys around all year. Good communicator and has an anchor.

Cody Mauch NDSU 6'5" 305
Sort of a nasty human being that can play inside or out at the next level. He will make hay as a run blocker and will have to polish his pass sets if he will play on the outside.

OT - Packers want length and athleticism and it will be interesting what they are willing to invest in terms of draft capital to get a future left or right tackle

Broderick Jones Georgia 6'4" 315
I love his athleticism and if he is their at 13 I would struggle to not draft him and slot him in at right guard to start the 2023 season

Dawand Jones Ohio St 6'7" 345
I honestly like him better than Paris Johnson. His size and movement make a no brainer in the second round

Matthew Bergeron Syracuse 6'6" 315
Really good size and athleticism just played at a school trying to rise from the ashes

Tyler Steen Alabama 6'6" 322
Good athleticism and can win even when his technique is below average. Has the ability to move inside

Warren McClendon Georgia 6'4" 305
Athletic and solid build but will probably need to add weight regardless if he stays at tackle or moves inside

Blake Freeland BYU 6'8" 302
Needs to add a bit of weight and really is only a tackle prospect at the next level, but I love his feet and his ability in the run game. If he is there in the 3rd round and the Packers need a tackle I wouldn't hesitate to take him.

Nick Broecker Ole Miss 6'4" 305
Short arms might make it easier for him to move inside. Good lateral quickness and has the speed to get to the next level, needs to add weight and strength

Jake Witt Northern Michigan 6'7" 302
Converted TE, so he has great testing numbers but he is a work in progress, but keep an eye out in the late rounds for him.

Joey Fischer Shepard 6'7"350
Another small school prospect with good size and average feet. Another prospect that could start outside but find a home on the inside.

WR - Packers obviously have lost several guys over the last two years, they need to backfill guys that probably need to have the ability to contribute in 2023.

Rashee Rice SMU 6'1" 205
Competes for 50/50 balls and can make spectacular catches. He has the size the Packers would like in the slot. He is moving up draft boards

Zay Flowers Boston 5'11" 180
I like his do it all production I just don't like his size.

Marvin Mims Oklahoma 5'11" 185
Like the speed and his route running, but he isn't going to add in the run game as a blocker.

Jonathon Mingo Ole Miss 6'2" 220
I have talked about him before, but the size and strength is something the Packers shouldn't ignore looking for receivers in the second or third round. I don't think he will last till round 3 though.

Elijah Higgins Stanford 6'3" 235
Matchup problems galore if he can prove he can run clean routes and separate from defenders. Lucky to have him in the 5th round

Bryce Ford-Wheaton W. Virginia 6'3" 224
The size and speed ratio is off the chart but his ability and hands can be questioned at times, risk vs reward on his upside, might be worth a 4th round pick

Andrei Iosivas Princeton 6'3" 205
Dudes from Princeton. Pretty decent athlete at a small school, he overwhelmed his competition at times in the Ivey League needs to demonstrate he can block at the next level

Puka Nacua BYU 6'2" 205
Well built athlete with great effort and tenacity in all phases of the game. Excels as a deep perimeter target. Doesn't have maybe the lateral quickness or the breaks of the top end receivers in this draft.

[run pMc]

We say the same thing every year. Hopefully we have learned our lessons from passing up quality in the past and have the opportunity to draft the best wr in the draft. Personally I don’t think he will be there at 13

I'd be ok with taking Mingo in R3 vs. JSN in R1. I'd be ok with JSN at 18 or 20 but 13 feels high to me. It's not a great WR class at the top but it's got depth. I'd rather they roll the dice at a spot where there's more positional value. Would love to see them trade down, pick up an extra Day 2 pick, take a OT and EDGE with 1st two picks and then get a 3 pass catchers (TE/WR). Darnell Wright, FAU from KSU, La Porta, Rashee Rice and Mingo?

[Fritz]

I keep thinking of Mongo from Blazing Saddles.

Or Oingo Boingo.

At this point in the process, I've read so much from all of you about all these guys that it gets confusing. Is Isiah Foskey as good, or is he going to be as good, as Myles Murphy? Is Broderick Jones better than Darnell Wright? Can you get the same thing in the second round? Darnell Washington or Luke Musgrave or neither?

My head is spinning.

[Deputy Nutz]

Based on factors and what the Packers are looking for in terms of size, production, and RAS score Defense

DT - Packers used high capital last year in the draft for a defensive tackle. They rely on a rotation as they are rarely in their base 3 down.

Jalen Carter Georgia 6'3" 310
Scares the pants off of me. His game film is darn good, so good you don't care about the off the field stuff and his poor pro day. Better than the Wyatt was last year. If he fell to 13 I couldn't help myself and I would draft him.

Keeanu Benton Wisconsin 6'4" 315
I have loved this kid since watching him wrestle in the state finals as a junior. If the Packers drafted him in the second round I would be happy although I would scratch my head because of other needs, but I think the sky is the limit with him, the comparison is Kenny Clark

Jaquelin Roy LSU 6'4" 305
Good size and good athlete, he just really hasn't put it all together at the college level and he might not have the ability to do so. He could be a rotation guy just based on his size, I don't know how much draft capitol I would invest in him, maybe a 4th or 5th.

Byron Young Alabama 6'4" 292
He isn't gonna wow anyone with his ability to get to the QB, but he is a quality run defender that will have to add 10-15 pounds to continue to hold up as a primary 1st or 2nd down guy in the NFL.

Zacch Pickens South Carolina 6'4 291
He can create a push up the middle in the pass game, but will have to add weight and attitude to hold up in the run game. DT is light this year so he could maybe go as high as early 3rd round

Gervon Dexter Florida 6'6" 310
Should be a first rounder with all of his ability and size. He has excellent get off and snap recognition, but his pad level kills him at times.

Jerrod Clark Costal Carolina 6'4" 335
Converted TE which seems odd. If you need a run plugger than lines up over the center, he is your guy. Not technical with his pass rush but I would think he is raw, 3rd round would be favorable.

Edge/OLB - Packers are looking for difference makers with size and length.

Murphy, Wilson, or Anderson are no brainers if they fall to 13.

Nolan Smith Georgia 6'2" 238
For one of the smaller edge players in this draft he is almost dominant in the run game. His speed and first step off the edge is elite. Some team that doesn't mind his height or arm length is gonna get a potentially game changing type player. For the Packers I don't think he has a chance of making it to pick 42

Keion White 6'5" 285
I don't love the age, or the fact that he looks like a 4-3 defensive end, but the size, speed, and ability ratio gets your wheels turning on how he could be productive in the Packers scheme. Similar to Rashan Gary in size, but Gary was young when he was drafted and had the years to spend in seasoning, not sure White has that.

Isaiah Foskey Notre Dame 6'5" 265
I like his get off and how he immediately threatens tackles in their pass set. He looks the part and fits what the Packers do on defense. I don't think he is worth the 13th pick in the draft, so you either trade back or hope he falls into the second round.

Colby Wooden Auburn 6'4" 273
I loved him in the first 10 seconds of watching him. Great hips and hands. He does tend to get high and peek with his eyes. I would spend a second rounder on him, which may be a reach but I like his upside.

Nick Herbig Wisconsin 6'2" 240
He has always seemed small as an outside linebacker, but his first step and snap get off may just be the best in the draft. He is a linebacker at the next level and will have to play off the ball if he is going to make a long term career on defense, but if you can get him in position to get after the QB his Havoc rate is off the chart. If a team falls in love with him I can see them spending a late 3rd on him, but you get the best value out of him as a 4th rounder

Robert Beal Jr Georgia 6'4" 245
Aggressive player with high rev motor. I wish his production matched his motor, but his 40 time was quality but the rest of his testing not so much. He could go any where in the 3rd round to the 5th round.

Felix Anudike-Uzomah Kansas 6'3" 252
Great motor and get off, loves to chase. He might be on the smaller side for the Packers, but that is splitting hairs. I think he is just scratching the surface. Sure fire second round pick

Tuli Tuipulotu USC 6'3" 265
High end motor, that is young and will polish his edges within a couple of seasons. I would like to see better recognition off the ball and attack the blockers in the pass game. He does show the ability to drop into coverage and play in a two point stance.

LBs- I expect late picks in the draft for linebackers. I can't believe the Packers have fallen in love with Simpson, Campbell, or Sanders. Its just not deep with size or talent

Noah Sewell Oregon 6'1" 246
He has the size but not the length, I don't know where he fits into this draft. maybe 4th round?

DeMarvion Overshown Texas 6'4" 225
Has the length but not the size to make you fall in love with him, and his film is ok when he is running and in space. He might give you more than some of these guys in coverage.

Daiyan Henley Washington St 6'1" 225
Good film, good number but his size is a huge question mark. He better be able to read and react before linemen can climb to the next level. Not sure where he fits with the Packers

Kyle Soelle Arizona St. 6'4" 240
Very productive over 5 seasons as a Sun Devil. Down hill in the run game and has the size to draw interest from NFL teams. His 4.7 forty time is just ok.

Corners - Packers have their two or three guys especially depending on how Stokes comes back from injury. He wasn't having a stellar season up to that point anyways. Rasul Douglas could be replaced.

Kyu Blue Kelly Stanford 6' 191
Good man coverage, not a specifically dynamic athlete in testing but he is a solid coverage corner, worth at least 3rd round pick

Julius Brents Kansas St 6'3 205
Kids got size and can jump. I question tall corners ever since Kevin King, but his film is ok and he is 6'3'. Needs to be more physical with his jams and he has to be to open and close his hips faster. Good run support. 4th round? Might go higher because of his physical traits.

DJ Turner Michigan 5'11" 178
size is a concern but the dude can run. High ceiling with that speed and you really hope it transitions to the NFL. NFL corners take advantage of mistakes and catch up speed is nice but it's not as effective in the NFL as it is in College. Packers could have a high interest in him because of his ceiling and testing numbers. 2nd round pick is going to be what it takes to get him.

Kelee Ringo Georgia 6'2" 205
He is going to have to drop to the second round for the Packers to have any interest. His vertical speed and coverage is probably best in this class, but he struggles in his breaks and angles on routes underneath.

Jakorian Bennett Maryland 5'11" 188
He played all over the secondary for the Terps. he can play corner, nickel and even deep safety. That is were his upside is in the NFL. Can he adapt and play in the slot or on the outside. Mid to late round possible steal

Darrell Luter Jr Southern Alabama 6'0" 190
Small school prospect that has some great times in the underwear Olympics. He is a fast twitch athlete that will make it in the NFL if he can excel in man coverage. He is also aggressive in the run game and gets after receivers after the catch. He could be a fine steal in this draft if he lasts to the 3rd day

Terrell Smith Minnesota 6'1" 205
Size and speed is his drawing power. Late round pick that could end up being something.

Safety - very little depth in this class and the Packers need at least one solid player out of this draft and if they can get two all the better.

Jordan Battle Alabama 6'1" 209
Battle has the size the Packers are looking for, but his testing numbers are just above average. He is true cover 3 safety that can deliver a blow on receivers crossing in front of him. He needs to do better getting in the alley against the run game and offering support. Packers might have to hope he drops to them in the 3rd round or use one of their two second round picks on him.

Antonio Johnson Texas A&M 6'2" 198
Didn't blow scouts away at the combine which was a head scratcher as he is able to show off good man to man skills over the slot and run with receivers. Good size and traits you want. I have no idea where he falls in this draft.

JL Skinner Boise St. 6'3" 220
Hurt and doesn't have many if any testing numbers. Big run support player and does show the ability to cover. Size like that doesn't last long in this draft.

AJ Finely Ole Miss 6'3" 205
He has the length and is a solid player in coverage, but seems to have a lean frame and struggles in run support. low round value that could turn into a steal

[red]

Zach Kuntz Old Dominion 6'7" 250
Small school kid with big upside. 10.0 for a RAS score, not many kids his size can run a sub 4.6 forty. Can he play at the next level?



theres your pick. just so pea brained idiots can yell, KUUUUUUUUNTZ, everytime he's on the field

[RashanGary]

Hope all the good ones don’t get picked and all that’s left is top corners. We need a big guy.

[RashanGary]

Just watched Lukas Van Ness. Looks like a 21 year old Preston Smith. Preston is really good in coverage for a guy his size. I doubt Van Ness has that talent, but as a pass rusher, felt like I was watching Preston.

A 21 year old Preston wouldn’t be a waste of a pick, but I guess at 13 id like more.

I watched Nolan Smith. At that size, id like to see more burst off the edge, but he was more physical than you’d expect at 238. Don’t love him either.

[RashanGary]

Not in love with Myles Murphy, Van Ness or Nolan Smith. I don’t know if edge is it this year.

[RashanGary]

I think they’re all good players, but I’d like a super star.

[RashanGary]

I liked Tyree Wilson the most. I like his explosiveness for his size coming off of blocks or attacking an edge. But the competition wasn’t quite as hard as the other guys faced so maybe that skews it. But he looks to have a little more burst than Murphy or Van Ness.

[RashanGary]

Braden Smith plays pretty well at tackle with 32.5” arms. It’s rare to be a solid NFL tackle with less than 33.5” arms though. Skoronski plays natural and clean at LT in college. But historically, there just aren’t great tackles with arms that short so maybe he’ll just be above average at tackle. Hate to waste a top 13 pick on an above average player even if it is a premium position.

[Fritz]

Hope all the good ones don’t get picked and all that’s left is top corners. We need a big guy.

But if the draft falls so that the guys Guter covets are gone, I could see him try to trade down, and if that doesn't pan out, just take a corner if he's rated head and shoulders above the next guys on Guter's board.

I won't be thrilled, but I'd be okay with it. You can never have enough of those guys, and maybe that'd spark the Packers to ask Douglas to move to safety. Then you don't have to draft a mediocre safety higher than you probably should've.

[red]

are we on the board yet?

[RashanGary]

I’m hoping tyree Wilson falls. I watched the edge guys and I thought he looked the most explosive disengaging from blocks and going 0 to 100 instantly and making plays. The other two (Murphy and Van Ness) remind me a bit of Preston.

[RashanGary]

With the very little I’ve looked into… Mike Wahle is on the Green Bay sports radio show once a week and he said Skoronsky is the best OL in the draft. As solid as they come according to Wahle. So I want Skoronsky even though he has short arms and is only 6’4”. He does carry 315 well and very athletic at that weight. And very natural as an OL. So he has enough strengths to overcome the short arms.

And I also hope for Tyree Wilson. He looked like a beast.

We don’t get top 13 picks often. Big guys are so hard to find. I’m hoping for one of my big guys.

[Sparkey]

With the very little I’ve looked into… Mike Wahle is on the Green Bay sports radio show once a week and he said Skoronsky is the best OL in the draft. As solid as they come according to Wahle. So I want Skoronsky even though he has short arms and is only 6’4”. He does carry 315 well and very athletic at that weight. And very natural as an OL. So he has enough strengths to overcome the short arms.

And I also hope for Tyree Wilson. He looked like a beast.

We don’t get top 13 picks often. Big guys are so hard to find. I’m hoping for one of my big guys.

Green Bay has had plenty of Tackles with long arms that sucked.. lol Good football players are just good.

[run pMc]

Tyree Wilson might be the first defensive player taken, before Jalen Carter and Will Anderson. No way he falls outside the top 7.

I think Skoronski could survive at tackle, but he'd thrive at guard. Length is an issue on the outside with him. I know people have talked about Bulaga and his short arms, Skoronski has even shorter. I just think he's better inside, just like I think Elgton Jenkins is better at G than T. I could see a team taking him high and trying him both places, you'll get a solid 10 year player with some position flexibility. I'd put him at LG and train him to be a backup at T though.

I'm kinda on the Darnell Ws bandwagon - Wright and Washington, although if they could trade down a few spots in R1, still get Wright and pick up a R3 that would be even better. I think EDGE in R2 is a high likelihood. Hard to say until the draft starts and players come off the board.

[Fritz]

are we on the board yet?

Not yet, Red. Keep drinking.

[red]

With the very little I’ve looked into… Mike Wahle is on the Green Bay sports radio show once a week and he said Skoronsky is the best OL in the draft. As solid as they come according to Wahle. So I want Skoronsky even though he has short arms and is only 6’4”. He does carry 315 well and very athletic at that weight. And very natural as an OL. So he has enough strengths to overcome the short arms.

And I also hope for Tyree Wilson. He looked like a beast.

We don’t get top 13 picks often. Big guys are so hard to find. I’m hoping for one of my big guys.

I’ve heard from other spots that he’s the best lineman in the draft also

[red]

Not yet, Red. Keep drinking.

Already on it

[red]

Tyree Wilson might be the first defensive player taken, before Jalen Carter and Will Anderson. No way he falls outside the top 7.

I think Skoronski could survive at tackle, but he'd thrive at guard. Length is an issue on the outside with him. I know people have talked about Bulaga and his short arms, Skoronski has even shorter. I just think he's better inside, just like I think Elgton Jenkins is better at G than T. I could see a team taking him high and trying him both places, you'll get a solid 10 year player with some position flexibility. I'd put him at LG and train him to be a backup at T though.

I'm kinda on the Darnell Ws bandwagon - Wright and Washington, although if they could trade down a few spots in R1, still get Wright and pick up a R3 that would be even better. I think EDGE in R2 is a high likelihood. Hard to say until the draft starts and players come off the board.

Washington and his 775 yards and 3 TDs over his 3 years in college?

This is the type of player that people are over drafting the shit out of right now that will probably still be around when we pick in the second

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Already on it

Anybody have a guess what time we will pick?

[bobblehead]

With the very little I’ve looked into… Mike Wahle is on the Green Bay sports radio show once a week and he said Skoronsky is the best OL in the draft. As solid as they come according to Wahle. So I want Skoronsky even though he has short arms and is only 6’4”. He does carry 315 well and very athletic at that weight. And very natural as an OL. So he has enough strengths to overcome the short arms.

And I also hope for Tyree Wilson. He looked like a beast.

We don’t get top 13 picks often. Big guys are so hard to find. I’m hoping for one of my big guys.

Skoronski won't make it to us. Real GMs draft elite bug men early. You might see 3 OL gone before we pick. Skoronski almost certainly.