Official 2023 NFL Draft Thread

[Joemailman]

Might be drafting a little earlier than normal.

What do Packers need?

[Bretsky]

Future Franchise QB ? :)))

[red]

wr's for like the 10th year in a row

[red]

Future Franchise QB ? :)))

and one of those

[Joemailman]

162 days until NFL Draft.

[Freak Out]

Ha ha ha

[wthigoot]

Fullback. Get someone like William Henderson. Then use the running backs more.

[run pMc]

EDGE, TE, Safety.
Probably another WR and someone to return punts/kicks.

Possibly look for help for Kenny; I'm not sure they're getting from Lowry and Reed.
Their current rookies need to make a jump. Right now, the five Day1/Day2 picks they had have turned into confused rookie Quay, MIA Wyatt, hurt Watson, and inactive Rhyan. That's not good enough. Your Day 1 and 2 picks need to get snaps. (I think Quay will get better, but he and Campbell don't look good right now.)

[Joemailman]

Packers currently have 14th pick. Last time they had 14th pick was 2000 when they took Bubba Franks.

[MadtownPacker]

Packers currently have 14th pick. Last time they had 14th pick was 2000 when they took Bubba Franks.
Don’t bitch, homeboy always caught the ball even if he had sloth speed.

[Teamcheez1]

I think this squad has the ability to push for a top 10 pick if they put their minds to it.

[Joemailman]

Don’t bitch, homeboy always caught the ball even if he had sloth speed.

Just providing information.

[call_me_ishmael]

The packers first pick will almost certainly be an offensive linemen.

[drayge]

Left tackle

[Dpopp11]

looks like osu could have 5 guys in the 1st round again next year.

[Joemailman]

Packers currently have the 11th pick in the NFL Draft. The last time the Packers picked 11th was 1983 when they drafted Tim Lewis.

Recent 11th picks:

2022: Chris Olave
2021: Justin Fields
2020: Mekhi Becton
2019: Jonah Williams
2018: Minkah Fitzpatrick

[Jaire]

EDGE, TE, Safety.
Probably another WR and someone to return punts/kicks.

Possibly look for help for Kenny; I'm not sure they're getting from Lowry and Reed.
Their current rookies need to make a jump. Right now, the five Day1/Day2 picks they had have turned into confused rookie Quay, MIA Wyatt, hurt Watson, and inactive Rhyan. That's not good enough. Your Day 1 and 2 picks need to get snaps. (I think Quay will get better, but he and Campbell don't look good right now.)

agree with that list.

I would put an offensive lineman earlier. I had hoped we were taking an edge at 22 this year (Karlaftis or Johnson): it was a good year to get edge cheap. I still think Wyatt will be fine: it takes time for most of those guys and he has everything it takes to succeed (physically, drive, love of football). He was my alternate pick at 22.

I do NOT WANT another safety before round three: pretty sick of the db mania. They don't even know what to do with a shut down corner like Jaire.

[Jaire]

Oh my!!!!

This thread is hilarious. I can taste the cynicism.

So long as we have AR, I have hope. And that's it. Unless Gute really turns a(nother) corner, it's a bleak future. That said, I think we did get a very good haul this year and took advantage of the deepest draft of 20 years. Quite a few guys will be solid to above solid starters from what I've seen: but, takes time. 12 is key to any success for the short term.

[Bretsky]

Packers currently have the 11th pick in the NFL Draft. The last time the Packers picked 11th was 1983 when they drafted Tim Lewis.

Recent 11th picks:

2022: Chris Olave
2021: Justin Fields
2020: Mekhi Becton
2019: Jonah Williams
2018: Minkah Fitzpatrick



Maybe we can finally draft a top tier WR :)

[bobblehead]

Packers currently have 14th pick. Last time they had 14th pick was 2000 when they took Bubba Franks.

Thats awesome since I was going to say a TE who could stress the middle of the field and also run block adequately.

[bobblehead]

Packers currently have the 11th pick in the NFL Draft. The last time the Packers picked 11th was 1983 when they drafted Tim Lewis.

Recent 11th picks:

2022: Chris Olave
2021: Justin Fields
2020: Mekhi Becton
2019: Jonah Williams
2018: Minkah Fitzpatrick

4 quality pros right there

[RashanGary]

The Packers aren’t going to pick 11th. Lazard will come back. Doubs keeps getting better. Watson will come back. The OL will get healthy and start to gel. The Packers had an unsuspectingly hard schedule against top teams no one thought would be top teams to start the season.

We win a bunch of games down the stretch. Book it.

[Jaire]

The Packers aren’t going to pick 11th. Lazard will come back. Doubs keeps getting better. Watson will come back. The OL will get healthy and start to gel. The Packers had an unsuspectingly hard schedule against top teams no one thought would be top teams to start the season.

We win a bunch of games down the stretch. Book it.

I'm putting on green and gold glasses for this next one too.

Just win one, baby. I will pretend J.B. is not DC and the first 8 games were an aberration.

Truth is this: if the line stays healthy, it can be very good. WRs have the talent, not the experience (the future is very bright). Cobb and Lazard staying healthy are pretty critical: those are your third down guys, and they both are very reliable in that role, as well as "catches everything" Tonyan..............so it comes down to luck (health wise) to put together a run. It's the NFC, and nobody looks dominant though a couple teams could become so in the second half.

The line is the real key imo. Bakh was very good, and no reason to believe, Jenkins doesn't return to old form at his most comfortable position.

[RashanGary]

Yep. It’s about to roll.

[RashanGary]

I haven’t bet all year but imma bet on this one.

[Jaire]

I haven’t bet all year but imma bet on this one.

That's the spirit.

[red]

i'm done drafting D in the first and then watching our D continue to suck every year

if the Gunt tries to pull the same shit he did in the last draft, then fire him before he can make the pick

STOP WASTING PICK!!!!!!

[MadScientist]

wr's for like the 10th year in a row
This.
It was pretty fucking obvious the WR situation wasn't great. Just Adams and scrubs. Now it's just scrubs and hoping some rookies might not suck in the future. Slow moving train wreck that anybody not named Gute could see coming.

They also need some tackles with functional knees.

Can they draft a defensive coordinator?

[red]

This.
It was pretty fucking obvious the WR situation wasn't great. Just Adams and scrubs. Now it's just scrubs and hoping some rookies might not suck in the future. Slow moving train wreck that anybody not named Gute could see coming.

They also need some tackles with functional knees.

Can they draft a defensive coordinator?

no, but we could maybe trade a pic for a decent DC

i know its happened for head coaches

but them we would just trade a pic for some bum that matty once saw walking in a hallway somewhere

[call_me_ishmael]

They're gonna sneak into the playoffs, not a doubt in my mind.

[run pMc]

They don't draft WRs in the first round. I think that's a Ted and Gute thing.

My guess is they feel the bust rate is too high and you can find them in later rounds, like RBs.

I think they will go BPA of course, but that's most likely to be among OT, EDGE, S, DL.

I suppose there's an outside shot at taking a QB in R1 also. If they thought Love was the next franchise QB I'm not 100% convinced they give Rodgers his extension.

[Bretsky]

They don't draft WRs in the first round. I think that's a Ted and Gute thing.

.

The Game has changed since the days of Ted; perhaps Gutebag has fallen behind the times

[run pMc]

Agree.

I think they will have to continue to invest in WRs, likely more often too. WR salaries have really gone up the last few years and if you aren't reliant on one to drive your offense (e.g., Adams) you have more leverage as well as a backup plan if you bring in rookies. They haven't had that in a few seasons -- it's really just been Adams and then everyone else is the backup band. That's costing them this year. Drafting (or getting very lucky with a FA or trade) will be the way to go -- I'm not sure a team can afford two $20M/yr WRs unless they are saving money elsewhere.

[red]

we sure have come a long way in the last decade

in 2011 we had jennings, driver, jordy, james jones and cobb

5 guys that could be #1s or #2s

right now we don't have anybody worth being a #2

back in those days we had talent coming out of our ears but we were still investing in the position almost every draft

[Bretsky]

we sure have come a long way in the last decade

in 2011 we had jennings, driver, jordy, james jones and cobb

5 guys that could be #1s or #2s

right now we don't have anybody worth being a #2

back in those days we had talent coming out of our ears but we were still investing in the position almost every draft



GOING BEST TO ORIGINAL QUESTION, and MAYBE THIS DESERVES IT"S OWN THREAD ?

Has Gute Fallen behind the times ? A while ago WR perhaps was not a very key position.

Now you have QB as #1...........and honestly I'm not sure what three positions are the most importants ones on the team. But when building a roster, where you roll your money to excel sure seems to have changed in the last 5ish years.

[red]

GOING BEST TO ORIGINAL QUESTION, and MAYBE THIS DESERVES IT"S OWN THREAD ?

Has Gute Fallen behind the times ? A while ago WR perhaps was not a very key position.

Now you have QB as #1...........and honestly I'm not sure what three positions are the most importants ones on the team. But when building a roster, where you roll your money to excel sure seems to have changed in the last 5ish years.

i think he might just suck at drafting

i mean a couple years ago we needed help at WR to team with adams. we didn't need a RB, we took dillon in the second, then in the 3rd we took a fullback and turned him into a shitty TE

[Joemailman]

Packers currently with the 8th pick in the NFL Draft. Last time Packers drafted 8th was 1956. They drafted HB Jack Losch. Losch played in 12 games in 1956 and had 43 rushing yards and 85 receiving yards. That was it for his career.

[Teamcheez1]

I’m thinking we throw Love out there for at least part of the rest of the season and go full tank. We may yet get a new starting QB out of this season, just not the way we thought.

[red]

I’m thinking we throw Love out there for at least part of the rest of the season and go full tank. We may yet get a new starting QB out of this season, just not the way we thought.

we have to see for sure what we got

if he looks like shit we have to draft another QB next year

[run pMc]

Now you have QB as #1...........and honestly I'm not sure what three positions are the most importants ones on the team. But when building a roster, where you roll your money to excel sure seems to have changed in the last 5ish years..

My first thoughts are QB, LT and either EDGE or CB. I'm just spitballing there.

They don't have to draft WRs in R1, but they did need to draft WRs more often to try and hit on a few. At least a Day 2/early Day 3 pick every other year because they get hurt, good ones cost a lot, and you can find them in later rounds. Part of it is the drafting as well -- this team is different if they pick Amon St. Brown instead of Amari Rodgers.

Not a huge fan of drafting TE's early because there are about as many difference makers at TE as there are elite QB's. They're hard to find and not worth spending a lot to get an adequate one.

[call_me_ishmael]

I'd rather stink for a year and have a shot at Quinn Ewers over the guys this year.

[red]

I'd rather stink for a year and have a shot at Quinn Ewers over the guys this year.

is that the douche bag with the terrible mullet?

i could never cheer for that

[Joemailman]

Packers currently with the 9th pick in the NFL Draft

Past #9 picks:

2009: B.J. Raji
1977: Mike Butler
1971: John Brockington
1967: Bob Hyland
1966: Jim Grabowski
1942: Urban Odson
1940: Hal Van Every
1939: Larry Buhler
1937: Ed Jankowski

[call_me_ishmael]

Hopefully the Packers will be a prime position to land an OT.

[Teamcheez1]

If we draft in the top 10, QB is the target.

[run pMc]

Agree you have to look at QB when you're drafting that high. There will be some decent ones in the draft.
You could also grab a top end EDGE or OT.

[Joemailman]

Packers back to the 14th pick in the NFL Draft.

So what now Rats? You rooting for an early pick, or does this win mean Packers still have a shot at the playoffs?

[RashanGary]

Packers back to the 14th pick in the NFL Draft.

So what now Rats? You rooting for an early pick, or does this win mean Packers still have a shot at the playoffs?

Win!!

[SudsMcBucky]

I will NEVER root for an earlier pick until we are officially eliminated from playoff contention. Never say die til its done.

[call_me_ishmael]

10-30 is offensive linemen or pass rusher territory in my opinion.

[run pMc]

Agree - you want to win.

I'm fine with them taking an EDGE in R1; it's a good class and GB's depth there is iffy, especially with Gary's injury.

[KYPack]

is that the douche bag with the terrible mullet?

i could never cheer for that

What's her 40 time?

[Bretsky]

Win!!


SCRFW THIS ; EMBRACE THE TANK !

We really need to go 6-1 rest of way to make the playoffs. Not happenin

We've completely f'cked up the season; let's not stop here.

Embrace the Tank, and bring home the OSU or BAMA QB and develop the 3rd HOF'er in a row

[call_me_ishmael]

I don't think they're gonna get 6-1 but I think they are gonna win a few. Without Gary it'll be tough to go deep into the playoffs of course.

You think either of those guys is the truth, though? Man IDK. I don't think the little fella from Alabama will succeed, but then again I didn't think Kyler would either. Russ was built different from the start so I did believe he would.

I have never seen the OSU feller play but I am skeptical. Would be nice to be wrong. I'm curious what Bruce Springsteen Wallbangers thinks about it.

[Joemailman]

SCRFW THIS ; EMBRACE THE TANK !

We really need to go 6-1 rest of way to make the playoffs. Not happenin

We've completely f'cked up the season; let's not stop here.

Embrace the Tank, and bring home the OSU or BAMA QB and develop the 3rd HOF'er in a row

Even 6-1 might not be enough. 49ers have the last playoff spot right now at 5-4. 49ers have easier schedule than the Packers. 10-7 might not be good enough to get in.

[bobblehead]

SCRFW THIS ; EMBRACE THE TANK !

We really need to go 6-1 rest of way to make the playoffs. Not happenin

We've completely f'cked up the season; let's not stop here.

Embrace the Tank, and bring home the OSU or BAMA QB and develop the 3rd HOF'er in a row

Rodgers wasn't motivated to win until we were in position to draft another QB. He will get us 4 more wins this season one way or another.

[call_me_ishmael]

I know he hasn't started college yet but when is "tank for Arch" going to be a thing? If I'm the Packers, maybe that is my ideal post Rodgers QB target right there.

[RashanGary]

I know he hasn't started college yet but when is "tank for Arch" going to be a thing? If I'm the Packers, maybe that is my ideal post Rodgers QB target right there.

My 20yr old is a giants fan and we always liked and followed Eli manning. He’s one of my sons favorite Giants. So im a fan of the mannings and follow them. I hope Arch is a star. My son and I are gonna watch his games when he gets to Texas.

[Fritz]

is that the douche bag with the terrible mullet?

i could never cheer for that


This is why Red is one of my absolute favorite Packerrats.

And Rashan, FYI, Archie Senior was the best QB of all the Mannings. I watched him play in college and in N'Awlins.

[Joemailman]

As of now, Packers picking 12th.

[Joemailman]

Packers picks 10-18

10) Jamaal Reynolds, Larry Elkins
11) Tim Lewis, Walt Schlinkman
12) Rashan Gary, Alphonso Carreker, Barty Smith, Rich Moore, Herb Adderley
13) Gale Gillingham, Lloyd Voss, Earl Gros, Alex Hawkins
14) Bubba Franks, Dave Robinson
15) Wayne Simmons, Eddie Lee Ivery, Jim Taylor, Bob Fleck, Billy Howton, Dan Dworsky
16) Justin Harrell, Aaron Taylor, Rich McGeorge, Rip Collins, J.W. Wheeler
17) Bob Jeter, Jim Temp, Tobin Rote
18) Jaire Alexander, Tony Bennett, Joel Wells

[Joemailman]

As of this moment, Packers (11th) picking before the Lions. :whaa:

[RashanGary]

As of this moment, Packers (11th) picking before the Lions. :whaa:

Gopackgo! Tank!!

[call_me_ishmael]

LOL at Bubba Franks at #18. What a throwback! That was a large man. Is someone like that even draftable in today's NFL? He's like Big Dog sorta, but probably less mobile.

[HarveyWallbangers]

EDGE or possibly OT (depending on Bakh). I think we are good with LG Jenkins, C Myers, RG Runyan, RT Nijman for next year. Bakh or high 1st at LT. We could go with Nijman, Jenkins, Myers, Runyan, Tom, but Nijman is a FA after next year.

[run pMc]

I thought Njiman was an RFA this year and is a UDFA this offseason (same as Lazard)?

He's made some money as a swing tackle at a minimum, and I'm pretty sure some team will offer him starter money and try him at LT.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/yosh-nijman-29636/

I think he's gone unless they dump Bahktiari and sign him as the LT instead. Either way they have to find someone to play T.

[Joemailman]

Elgton Jenkins is UFA. Over The Cap has Nijman as RFA. Spotrac has him as UFA.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm pretty sure Nijman is an RFA next year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Nijman has been with the team since 2019, but he was on the practice squad for most of the 2019 season, so he didn't accrue an NFL season.

[run pMc]

You're probably right. Would be nice if they can keep him. Would also be nice if Rhyan and Tom pan out.

[Joemailman]

Packers with 9th pick in the draft. B.J. Raji territory.

[run pMc]

I think there are at least 2-3 games (CHI, DET, LAR) that are winnable, which would push them out of the top 10. I'd be surprised if they pick earlier than 8th unless they make roster decisions (i.e., play young/depth players only, etc.)

[Joemailman]

I think there are at least 2-3 games (CHI, DET, LAR) that are winnable, which would push them out of the top 10. I'd be surprised if they pick earlier than 8th unless they make roster decisions (i.e., play young/depth players only, etc.)

Every year is different. But last year the 4 teams that finished 7-10 drafted 8-11.

[Joemailman]

Packers drop to 11th in draft order.

[Bretsky]

Packers drop to 11th in draft order.


We'll mess this up and end up out of playoffs and picking about 16- 18

[bobblehead]

Gopackgo! Tank!!

So you think we shouldn't start Love after the bye week then......

[run pMc]

I think Rodgers will say he's healed up enough to play the Rams after the bye and (they should win) they'll mathematically stay in contention until the week after. I think they lose in Miami and by then SEA-NYG-WAS will have put enough distance between them and the Packers. After that it's the Love Boat.

Speaking of the Rams, how bad are they? Detroit will get their R1 pick this year -- will be a top 3 if not top 5 -- in the Stafford trade.
The NFL should push the trade deadline back 2-3 weeks IMO. That said, I'm glad that GB didn't give up what will be a high R2 for Chase Claypool.
It will be a top 50 pick and likely lead to a good player on a cheap contract.

[George Cumby]

So you think we shouldn't start Love after the bye week then......

Hahahahaha.

[texaspackerbacker]

They would be stupid to not start Rodgers as long as there is a mathematical chance. They really ought to start him even if/when they no longer have a chance - maybe give Love part of the game like in the preseason.

[Joemailman]

Packers with 10th pick. Jamaal Reynolds territory.:whaa:

[SudsMcBucky]

They would be stupid to not start Rodgers as long as there is a mathematical chance. They really ought to start him even if/when they no longer have a chance - maybe give Love part of the game like in the preseason.

Absolutely agree you continue to start AR if they're mathematically still alive. I'd be good, though, if once they ARE eliminated, to just AR down for the rest of the year. He's getting older. No reason to put unneccessary miles on him. See what we have in Love. Maybe improve our draft status.

[Joemailman]

Packers now 14th pick.

[Bretsky]

Packers now 14th pick.

figures; I said we'd end up between 16-18. Maybe we'll be lower

[texaspackerbacker]

Way too early to think about the draft.

[run pMc]

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-week-14-2022
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/basic-offensive-line

Packers OL ranked third in the league by PFF, 2nd by FO. For the grousing about OL and certain players, think of how much worse it can be.
Before anyone throws roses at the QB and trash at the OL in an attempt to dispute these -- these are OL stats, not QB stats. If you think you know better, provide data/proof.

All of this to say that there's a good chance they try to trade/redo Bahktiari and likely lose Jenkins to someone with a shipping container of cash/cap space (cough, Bears) and thus need to look at OL. Wouldn't shock me if they go defense early and double up on OL early day 3. They have atrocious luck in R3 but good luck in R4.
They could have Tom, Runyan, and Njiman as starters next year -- none of them acquired before Day 3. That's impressive.

[run pMc]

Way too early to think about the draft.

I agree it's early. Need to get a better sense of who is declaring, and where draft position is. Also need to see if any of the younger/fringe players are worth keeping. Lotta games left for that yet.

They need a new DC, but they'll also need EDGE, DL, S, WR, TE and OL. If they trade/cut Aaron Jones (unlikely, but he is 29) they need a RB.

[Joemailman]

Packers now 14th pick.


figures; I said we'd end up between 16-18. Maybe we'll be lower

The number could change a lot. Right now there are 7 teams at 5-8, and of those teams Packers would be picking last because they have the strongest strength of schedule.

[Joemailman]

With wins by Browns and Jags, Packers move up to 11th pick.

[Joemailman]

With wins by Browns and Jags, Packers move up to 11th pick.

10th thanks to Patriots/Raiders.

[Joemailman]

Packers back to 14th pick.

[RashanGary]

Packers back to 14th pick.

And that’s about how they look too, isn’t it. Middle of the road.

[bobblehead]

And that’s about how they look too, isn’t it. Middle of the road.

This sums it up. And in conjunction with the idea that if we lose to Miami and have a .8% chance of making the playoffs so Rodgers should still start because we are mathematically not eliminated I call bullshit. Rodgers has all the weapons available now, and a good OL. He still looks pedestrian. We need to see Love in extended action, even if your theory is that Rodgers is the QB next year. It hurts the franchise to NOT put him on the field either for our own benefit, or trade benefit.

[RashanGary]

This sums it up. And in conjunction with the idea that if we lose to Miami and have a .8% chance of making the playoffs so Rodgers should still start because we are mathematically not eliminated I call bullshit. Rodgers has all the weapons available now, and a good OL. He still looks pedestrian. We need to see Love in extended action, even if your theory is that Rodgers is the QB next year. It hurts the franchise to NOT put him on the field either for our own benefit, or trade benefit.


I’m with you on this. If we lose to the Dolphins it makes no sense to keep Love on the sidelines.

[Joemailman]

A Packers loss combined with a Commanders win over Seahawks would eliminate the Packers from the playoffs.

[Fosco33]

In what planet is 11 vs 14th worth not scrapping your way to the playoffs?

If this were Fall of 2010 - I wonder how many here would trade a ring to move up a couple draft spots…

[Joemailman]

In what planet is 11 vs 14th worth not scrapping your way to the playoffs?

If this were Fall of 2010 - I wonder how many here would trade a ring to move up a couple draft spots…

I think it is worth it. But the difference is that in 2010 a lot of people felt that if the Packers could get in the playoffs, they had a defense good enough to make a Super Bowl run. Not sure a lot of people feel that way this year. Now if they can play well against a very good Miami offense, that still might change.

[Fosco33]

“ The data suggest that teams negotiating draft positions assign roughly the same value for picks 12-20 and exponentially higher or lower values for picks near the beginning or end of the round.”

https://www.casino.org/features/nfl-draft/

[run pMc]

“ The data suggest that teams negotiating draft positions assign roughly the same value for picks 12-20 and exponentially higher or lower values for picks near the beginning or end of the round.”

https://www.casino.org/features/nfl-draft/

I believe it. Usually there are numerous tiers of players and by the teens it's unlikely there is a bonafide elite player available. (Yes, you can get lucky and hit on a player.)
By the time you get to 28 teams maybe jockeying to get into the 1st round to get a player eligible for 5th your option. The more years you can control the contract of a young player the better.

It's way too early, but right now I feel like if they just miss the playoffs and end up with the 14th pick or something, they should pull a 2018 and trade down and get more picks. I doubt they will.

I've come around to the belief that GB (Ted/Gute) has a "Don't draft WRs in R1" rule. I think they need to draft another WR unless they bring both Lazard and Cobb back (which is an iffy idea at best). They need to get better at TE also.

[Bretsky]

In what planet is 11 vs 14th worth not scrapping your way to the playoffs?

If this were Fall of 2010 - I wonder how many here would trade a ring to move up a couple draft spots…


You think we're picking 14th if we make the playoffs ?

The dagger was in this season long ago; just not our year; my hope is long gone

[Fosco33]

You think we're picking 14th if we make the playoffs ?

The dagger was in this season long ago; just not our year; my hope is long gone

I don’t care if it’s a top 5 or bottom 5 1st round pick / if you have a 50% shot if you win out - you 100% take it. There’s no tanking in Packer land.

And the 14th vs 11th was the reference to the inane discussion above about current draft order. Ie - we should have lost to the Bears and everyone else and we’d have a top 10 pick.

To pick the likes of Mandarich or Hawk?

[run pMc]

if you have a 50% shot if you win out - you 100% take it. There’s no tanking in Packer land.

Agree. I want them to win, I just don't think they will.

I am skeptical the difference between 11 and 14 in this draft is significant. I could be wrong.

[call_me_ishmael]

So is Elgton going to resign as a tackle, or a guard? Is Bak back next year given how good Tom has looked? Lots of interesting questions on the OL. I'm not sure what they should do next year.

[Bretsky]

Agree. I want them to win, I just don't think they will.

I am skeptical the difference between 11 and 14 in this draft is significant. I could be wrong.



Don't think for a second soft Matty wants to fire his buddy

What if winning out means we keep Barrry ? Embrace the Tank for the greater good :)

[Bretsky]

I’m with you on this. If we lose to the Dolphins it makes no sense to keep Love on the sidelines.


Do you think our Assistant GM, who has more power than the real GM, will embrace this ?

[run pMc]

I think there's a LOT of external pressure to fire Barry from fans, which teams have ignored in the past.
In Barry's case, there internal pressure as well -- Jaire is freelancing big time, basically doing what he wants. I think some players have tuned him out. The defense has a lot of draft picks and cap spending on the defensive side and they have vastly underperformed (remember whispers of a top 5 defense?), so Gute and Murphy have to have opinions on his performance. I suspect MLF does too, and we know Rodgers does.
MLF won't can Barry until end of season for the optics league wide (who wants to play for a coach who won't even let you coach the full season, and can you in less than 2 years?) as well as the personal connections he has with Barry and other McVay-ites.

In fairness to Barry, there have been times where the defense has played well, and even a few where the scheme or game plan was reasonable but not executed well.
I don't think that's enough to save him, and I don't see how Barry keeps his job unless the defense suddenly start holding teams to < 10 points from here on out. Even then I think it's too late. Name one player besides Rashan Gary who has improved under Barry. His defenses have not been statistically much better than Pettine's.

[Bretsky]

We don't have Gary
We don't have Stokes
We have other injuries

And PPG I think we're at 15. Ditching Barry is not a given

[Joemailman]

We don't have Gary
We don't have Stokes
We have other injuries

And PPG I think we're at 15. Ditching Barry is not a given

The defense was underperforming before they lost Gary and Stokes though. 15th isn't good enough for a team that spent 9 of its last 10 1st round picks, and most of its key free agent acquisitions on defense. If MLF keeps Barry, he will be putting his own coaching success in the hands of a guy who he now has to know is a mediocrity.

[run pMc]

As of Week 15 GB is ranked 13th in overall DVOA, 7th on offense and 22nd on defense.

They are giving up 5 ypc against the run, their run defense by DVOA or EPA is atrocious, and they are well inside the top 10 in big plays given up despite playing a soft bend-but-don't-break style of predominantly zone defense.

MLF has to know he can't keep Barry. Everyone else certainly seems to.
The offense has started to improve (call it the Watson effect, as well as possibly Rodgers' thumb healing) but the defense? Nope.
They held the Rams under 200 yards but that team is a disaster without Stafford, Kupp or Donald playing. Beating the Bears the previous game was great, but it's not impressive in the overall landscape of the season. MIA, MIN and DET are fringe-playoff caliber teams at a minimum, we'll see how the defense looks against them.

[run pMc]

Do you think our Assistant GM, who has more power than the real GM, will embrace this ?

What if they lose at MIA but Rodgers insists on continuing to play because they still have a 1% chance to make the playoffs?
I think they have to sit him at that point and get Love some live game reps.

They also need to play some of their other younger players more. Wyatt has shown flashes when he plays, but they only give him 10-15 snaps a game. Slaton doesn't get a lot of snaps either.
Meanwhile Lowry (and sometimes Reed) just gets pushed out of gaps on running plays. Lowry has 0.5 sacks and 1 TFL in 475 snaps. That's...not good.

I would not be shocked if they take an EDGE or another DL in R1 of the draft. I just hope they play them.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm seeing a bunch of what ifs stupidly suggesting things if we lose to Miami. I'll give another what if. What if the Packers beat Miami? Furthermore, what if the knock of the Vikings and finish up beating Detroit, thereby likely making the playoffs? This IMO is a helluva lot more likely than floundering and losing. Specifically, what happens regarding Barry if the team ends the season successfully - either going all the way and winning the Super Bowl or at least being respectable, losing at some point in the playoffs? I would hope they would fire Barry anyway, as I see any success in spite of his D scheming, not because of it. That, of course, is LaFleur's decision (same as regarding Rodgers). And it seems like LaFleur is not exactly in favor of getting rid of Barry.

Regarding the draft, I think we are solid enough personnel-wise in the D Line and ILB. OLB also, assuming Gary comes back healthy, with the emergence of Enagbare and with P. Smith still under contract is not a strong need. Obviously, we are strong at Corner. Safety, though, may be a need with Savage not much of a force. I doubt, though, that Safety would be a first round need. On offense, assuming Rodger is back, we don't need an early round QB. If Love is not traded, we don't even need a QB later. RB also is not a position of need. I think our O Line solid and stable either with or without Bakhtiari. In addition to the starters, we have plenty of depth. We could probably use a WR, but not as an early round pick. TE, we also have plenty of quantity. I'd say we either go for a potentially elite TE in the first or second round or else just go with what we have. So what else is there? Not much.

I think I'd go TE first, Safety second, OLB third, maybe Kicker fourth or fifth round.

[sharpe1027]

Channeling the late Ted Thompson. Ya gotta go with the best player available. Don't worry about position. Probably a punter.

[run pMc]

Even if they win out and squeak into the playoffs, I have difficulty seeing them make hay there. They have beaten ONE team with a winning record this year.
A playoff run would present an interesting scenario and possibly save Barry's job, but I sure hope not.

Witness the defense giving up several 3rd and long conversions to the Rams
The Rasul lateral off the interception with no coach correcting him or holding him accountable.
Remember the Eagles game where they gave up more rushing yards to Hurts than Capers did against Kaepernick?

Terrible run defense, soft pass defense, having SEVEN first round picks on your defense (if you count Wyatt) and you still are barely above the bottom quartile of defenses.

A few years back this team's offense experienced addition by the subtraction of Geronimo and Jimmy Graham; I'd argue the defense could experience the same with a different DC.
I'm sure Barry's a nice guy and knows the scheme etc. etc. but based on the defense's performance and his track record I think they need a better DC.

[Joemailman]

Channeling the late Ted Thompson. Ya gotta go with the best player available. Don't worry about position. Probably a punter.

I think there are a few positions you can probably eliminate in the 1st round. QB (unless they trade Love), RB, TE, ST. Everything else is a real possibility.

[run pMc]

Channeling the late Ted Thompson. Ya gotta go with the best player available. Don't worry about position. Probably a punter.

Agree with the BPA approach. I think they will shade it to "prefer" certain positions, namely EDGE, DL, OL and S.

Gary is likely to be on the PUP to start the year. They may or may not keep Preston, and he's getting older. I like Enagbare and Hollins as depth, but you can never have enough good pass rushers and like QBs the best ones are usually found early. OLBs sometimes take a year or two to figure out the game also. (Rashan needed time.)

Reed and Lowry are UFA after this year and should not be brought back, meaning they will have Clark, Slaton, Wyatt and Ford (and PS fodder) which is not an inspiring squad. They need more help here.

Amos won't be back. The way he's playing he looks done. Exercising the 5th year option on Savage looks like a mistake, maybe a different scheme or DC can get something out of him, but being on the hook for $8M guaranteed is an albatross contract for a benched player.

OL - if a BPA OL falls to them they will take them. Njiman will want to get paid after next season, and unless Jenkins and Tom are your tackles, you're picking an OT, or you're hoping one of Caleb Jones and Rasheed Walker make a big jump.

There is one TE under contract next year -- Deguara. They can bring Tyler Davis back as a RFA, but should you? He knows the offense but doesn't move the needle and is basically a ST player. Tonyan's legs don't look like they are back. Maybe you bring him back on a cheap contract if he doesn't get interest. Big Dog comes back if he wants to, but you're just getting blocking from him and even that skill is diminishing. I'm ok taking a swing at one in the draft, but not in R1.

They will need to get depth at WR, RB, and slot CB, and if Nixon isn't back the return game. (FWIW I think they try to bring back both ex presidents - Nixon and Ford)

[bobblehead]

I don’t care if it’s a top 5 or bottom 5 1st round pick / if you have a 50% shot if you win out - you 100% take it. There’s no tanking in Packer land.

And the 14th vs 11th was the reference to the inane discussion above about current draft order. Ie - we should have lost to the Bears and everyone else and we’d have a top 10 pick.

To pick the likes of Mandarich or Hawk?

Bottom line is, if you can beat Miami at home you legit have a shot at running it all the way through. So yea, I'm cheering for them. That said I don't believe they have it this year. They should, talent wise, but we haven't played to it all year. Beating the Bears and Rams doesn't make you a contender.

[bobblehead]

I think there are a few positions you can probably eliminate in the 1st round. QB (unless they trade Love), RB, TE, ST. Everything else is a real possibility.

If we pick around 20 and the best TE is there I could see going that way. This is a good deep TE draft, so grabbing one, or even 2 shouldn't be eliminated from any round.

[Joemailman]

Packers with the 15th pick.

[Joemailman]

Packers with the 15th pick.

Edit: 14th

[MadScientist]

I think there are a few positions you can probably eliminate in the 1st round. QB (unless they trade Love), RB, TE, ST. Everything else is a real possibility.

Is there are reason you are eliminating TE? The Packers are in dire need of a really good TE. I'd be happy if they got one in the first round.

[run pMc]

Is there are reason you are eliminating TE? The Packers are in dire need of a really good TE. I'd be happy if they got one in the first round.

Elite TEs are as rare as elite QBs. Kittle, Kelce, Andrew. Below that you have Pitts, and Hockenson has had a rebirth. Fant is decent, Waller too (if hurt). Austin Hooper is aging.
I think you pay a LOT for a good TE, and I realize it's apple-to-oranges but the receiving production from most starting TEs is about a WR3. I'm not sure that's really worth $10M a year or a R1 pick. Rodgers doesn't use his TEs a lot historically, one partial season of Finley notwithstanding anyway.

Mayer has good hands and can probably play inline, so he figures to be the top TE in the draft and a R1 pick. Maybe the Packers go in that direction, but I thought Dalton Kincaid showed some good things and could be had Day 2 in the draft. Darnell Washington is interesting but boy is he lumbering...he's a moose once he's going but the problem is it takes him a very long time to get going.

Either way, Tonyan might play better a year removed from the ACL, but he also turns 29 and I think most of his best days are behind him. Deguara isn't an inline Y, and Big Dog is old enough to be his dad. TE will have to be addressed, but if it's not done in R1 I wouldn't worry about it. They did nothing about it this past offseason and I don't think Gute will repeat that.

[Joemailman]

Is there are reason you are eliminating TE? The Packers are in dire need of a really good TE. I'd be happy if they got one in the first round.

I just don't believe in taking TE's in the 1st round. Gronk, Kelce, Andrews were drafted in 2-3 round. Kittle in the 5th.

[MadScientist]

I just don't believe in taking TE's in the 1st round. Gronk, Kelce, Andrews were drafted in 2-3 round. Kittle in the 5th.

Greg Olsen, Vernon Davis of Tony Gonzalez were first rounders. They need to fill the position with actual talent. If it's there grab it.

[texaspackerbacker]

I absolutely want the Packers to draft Jake Moody of Michigan in the 4th round -give or take a round.

[Joemailman]

I absolutely want the Packers to draft Jake Moody of Michigan in the 4th round -give or take a round.

Packers have a kicker they like. Moody is only 2-6 from 50+.

[Bretsky]

I WANT THE TCU WIDE RECEIVER

Let's get the Lizard at the #4 spot where he belongs. Dubmeister can be a nice 3. Get us another elite started to go along with Watson, OR if Watson's injuries continue we'd have another great option

[Bretsky]

for what it's worth I'd take Marvin Harrison Jr over just about everybody but he has to play one more year. He's incredible

[call_me_ishmael]

CJ Stroud didn't look like he had a big time arm tonight. Really good college QB though. Great games today!

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I WANT THE TCU WIDE RECEIVER

Let's get the Lizard at the #4 spot where he belongs. Dubmeister can be a nice 3. Get us another elite started to go along with Watson, OR if Watson's injuries continue we'd have another great option

Tex or Harrell once suggested that Lazard be moved to TE. Not a bad idea, especially since Lazard pancaked 3 defenders in a single play.

I agree. Draft a WR in Rd 1.

[texaspackerbacker]

The question is, what do we need? and if there are needs, what do we need the most? And if we don't really need anything, what would be the most advantageous luxury items? We, of course, have plenty of adequate TEs as well as arguably a good stable of WRs. Do we go after some potential superstar in one of those areas? Or is something else a higher priority?

Category by category: O Line, plenty of decent adequate guys there, and a position where drafting early is shaky for finding star quality; D Line: Assuming Wyatt continues to improve and Slayton is minorly a positive factor, no early round need. We have several young guys who looked fairly decent in the preseason that haven't even been brought up from the PS and gotten in games; ILB: seemingly solid with Campbell under contract and Walker presumably at least decent plus Barnes and McDuffie; OLB: If Gary comes back as good as before and P. Smith is not cut, we don't need a high rounder there. Enagbare seems to be good, and Garvin has been decent enough for a roster spot for a couple of years. If a star quality guy falls to us, maybe grab him. Otherwise, skip it; Corner: obviously we're solid; Safety: If you assume Savage is a bust and Ford is not adequate, maybe draft one early. I tend to think those inadequacies are D scheme and coaching problems, though; RB and QB: no need to draft early so long as we keep what we have; Kicker: I said a year or two ago already we should maybe replace Crosby. I see we brought this guy up from the PS to kick off. If they have a high enough opinion of him, maybe no need, but that's a shaky assumption. Regardless, you don't draft a kicker before maybe the 4th round.

I would say we don't have any glaring need. As for what would be good to get in the first couple of rounds, my order of prioriity would be TE, Safety, OLB, D Line, and WR - depending on who drops to us.

[run pMc]

They should draft BPA

Having said that, I think there are some good OLB/EDGE defenders they will look at. Preston is fine, but he's getting older, and there's no guarantee an athletic freak like Gary will be 100% back next year. Garvin is JAG, Hollins and Enagbare are nice depth, but if you have a shot at a quality pass rusher you take them.

I think they are ok at ILB; Walker and Campbell are starters. I think they might let Barnes shop around. McDuffie is ST and deep depth; I'm not sure you want him playing a lot of meaningful snaps unless he shows more consistency and better play. They won't spend a high pick here, if any. Probably go the UDFA route.

DL - they won't bring Lowry or Reed back, meaning they will need another DL or two. J.Ford is on a redshirt year as the 3rd NT, which seems like a luxury thing plus I don't think he's that good anyway. So you basically have Slaton, Wyatt and Clark... you'll need a DE. For as bad as theyve been against the run, I wouldn't say they are ok at DL

Corners - they still have to figure out what to do with the trio of Jaire, Rasul and Stokes. Nixon is worth bringing back for his KR alone; he can play some slot and maybe you can play Savage there some too, but why is SJC even on the team? Someone willing/able to play the slot effectively would be nice. Rasul should be outside.

There's the possibility of switching him to safety, but that seems iffy. Amos is good as gone; very good dude but he seems a step slow this year and they need an upgrade in their starters at safety. Savage is a better man safety than zone; he was drafted for the Pettine scheme, not the Barry zone heavy scheme. Ford is a nice story but he got benched for biting on fakes and giving up a few big plays -- a rare sign of demanding accountability by the coaches. Tariq Carpenter and Dallin Leavitt are ST guys only; I'm not sure they really are keepers.

OL - they have a lot of guys under contract but if there's a good one you take them. It's unclear if there are enough 'decent adequate guys' there; grading out Jake Hanson, Rasheed Walker, Caleb Jones, Sean Rhyan and Royce Newman as such is iffy... and there's Bahktiari health issues. I wouldn't call Josh Myers spot as a starter safe going into next season either.

RB - what to do with Aaron Jones? They'll keep him and redo his contract somehow, but he's got one, maybe two seasons left in him before the decline becomes significant. RBs rarely age well. They have Patrick Taylor and Goodson, and will work the UDFA route. Dillon was the rare early pick, and I don't think they will do that again.

WR - they don't pick WRs in R1, I wonder if that's a TT maxim that Gute adheres to as well. They will absolutely draft a WR if they are smart; Lazard could be gone, Cobb probably should be and they don't have much else behind the rookies. Having another player besides Watson who can be a threat to stretch the field would be very beneficial to the offense. Day 2/early Day 3 pick here would make sense.

TE- Deguara is it for TEs under contract. Big Dog can come back if he decides to (he will), and Davis is an RFA. They won't tender him but might bring him back to camp on a cheap one year deal. Tonyan is something like 28 or 29 years old and it doesn't look like his legs are back post-ACL. He's been asked to block more the last two seasons (because of OL injuries) and that impacts his numbers, but he's a replaceable guy. The Mayer kid looks ok, but I think they can get a Day 2 TE who can be almost as good as Mayer and at least as good as any TE on the roster. Rodgers throws to them like 3 times a game.

I think Mason Crosby is done. Ahmed is supposed to have a big leg but he didn't boom it last time he had a chance. They probably bring him back along with either a UDFA or late Day 3 pick like Moody, who is fine. O'Donnell I think has another year on his contract. They need competition for Jack Coco at LS, he's gotten better but is still shaky at times.

[Joemailman]

Packers with the 16th pick in the draft...and dropping.:-D

[Bretsky]

Packers with the 16th pick in the draft...and dropping.:-D


Yup, we're not getting the top WR in the draft anymore

[Joemailman]

Yup, we're not getting the top WR in the draft anymore

Stop dreaming. You know we never were. :-D

[Bretsky]

Stop dreaming. You know we never were. :-D


I'm going to keep pounding the table, and fighting the good fight :))

[run pMc]

I'm going to keep pounding the table, and fighting the good fight :))

Keep doing it. Not against it, just don't think it will happen.
I do think they need another good WR. When Watson is hurt you can probably feature Doubs more but they will need another (non-RB) receiving threat to keep teams honest.

[run pMc]

Also - glad we didn't give up a R2 for Chase Claypool.

[texaspackerbacker]

We should be able to pick up a WR or two between the 3rd and 6th rounds. If you're smart about it and a little lucky, there's plenty of talent in that range. I'd like to see us get another speed guy. Doubs and Toure and of course Lazard and Cobb if he returns are decent enough players, but we could use a speedy backup for Watson.

Of course, Snoop Dog's nephew has expressed an interest in playing WR too.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I started my scouting early this year. I'm looking at the QBs. I must say Hendon Hooker is a guy that is really impressive. If it wasn't for his age and the fact he tore his ACL in November, he has first round talent. The dude had 58 TDs and 5 interceptions in the SEC the last two years. He had the best TD % and best int % in the conference. He has a big arm, good mobility, good mechanics. I really like this kid. His tape is much more impressive than Will Levis--who is getting top 10 buzz.

[Freak Out]

I started my scouting early this year. I'm looking at the QBs. I must say Hendon Hooker is a guy that is really impressive. If it wasn't for his age and the fact he tore his ACL in November, he has first round talent. The dude had 58 TDs and 5 interceptions in the SEC the last two years. He had the best TD % and best int % in the conference. He has a big arm, good mobility, good mechanics. I really like this kid. His tape is much more impressive than Will Levis--who is getting top 10 buzz.

Unless there is some unstoppable force on D sitting there etc I'd draft the dude.

[Fritz]

I'm going to keep pounding the pud, and fighting the good fight :))

Fixed that for you.

[call_me_ishmael]

Unless there is some unstoppable force on D sitting there etc I'd draft the dude.

This is the way.

[HarveyWallbangers]

We're going to draft another NDSU kid, aren't we? Gute likes NDSU (Billy Turner, Christian Watson, a practice squad OL last year, a practice squad TE earlier this year, I won't mention Darius Shepherd). This kid is from Spencer, Wisconsin. He's the top rated FB in the draft. Projected to go in the 5th round, and I've heard Kyle Juszczyk comparisons. Think Josiah Deguara, but with better carrying ability. He played RB, FB, and TE at NDSU--and he lined up all over the formation. I like this kid as a late round pick for the Packers.

https://nfldraftblitz.com/2022/10/19/2023-senior-bowl-watchlist-scouting-notes-fb-hunter-luepke-north-dakota-state/


Hunter Luepke is one of the most versatile offensive players entering this class. I do not doubt that he will dominate the competition at the Senior Bowl. He’s used as a running back, full back, H-back, and tight end, and he is a very effective receiver at every level on the field. He held just two offers out of high school, from North Dakota State and Northern Iowa.

Hunter Luepke scouting notes

Pros:

* Incredible body control. Very measured athlete.
* Very strong runner between the tackles. Has solid contact balance between staying upright. He Breaks tackles routinely and keeps his legs churning at all times.
* Acceleration is good.
* Natural receiver. More than capable receiver at multiple levels of the field. He has the ability to work the sideline as well while making catches.
* Solid route-runner. Is more of an H-Back in a fullback’s body.
* Ran a complex route tree at North Dakota State.
* Very solid run blocker.
* Solid in pass protection. Stout blocker. Locks up his edge quickly and effectively.

Cons:

* I would expect Luepke to test as a low-end running back, somewhere in the 4.6-4.7 range. It’s good speed, and if you’re not careful, you’ll lose him.
* Doesn’t change direction well with the ball in his hands. He’s focused on staying north/south.

Unfortunately, he hurt his shoulder near the end of the season. He won't participate in the Senior Bowl, and he may not be ready in time for the combine.

You can see how versatile he is in this game against Arizona (#44). He played RB, FB, and TE--and had 18 carries for 115 yards and 2 TDs, 3 receptions for 65 yards and 1 TD (almost 2 TDs receiving).

On another note: NDSU's LT Cody Mauch (#70) could be a 1st round pick this year.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OQQut9wMxw

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm not overly impressed with this year's class of RBs--outside of Bijan Robinson (more of a top 20 player than a top 10 player for me) and Jahmyr Gibbs (who I love, reminds me of Jamaal Charles). One sleeper that I like is Roschon Johnson of Texas. Right now, he's the consensus #13 RB, but he'd be in my top 5 right now. He sat behind Bijan, but he's just a really good all around RB. Bigger back who has a bit of elusiveness and burst; pretty good vision, balance, and power; good pass protector and flashes some solid hands.

[King Friday]

OL and TE more than anything. The main downfall of this team was red zone offense.

[RashanGary]

Would you switch spots with the Bears. Fields of Young (your choice) and 100M dollars and no bad contracts. They’re in a good spot to build something special. If you trust the GM, that is.

[Sparkey]

Green Bay has the 15th pick, thanks to Washington, Detroit and Seattle all winning.

[Deputy Nutz]

15th pick in the draft,

Where the Packers could use the draft to upgrade positions of weakness
Safety - Probably to most inept group of safeties I have seen in Green Bay. I have always thought that Green Bay puts a high price on dynamic and intelligent football players at the safety position. This is currently not what the Packers have. Savage is at best a slot corner/Nickel guy because he lacks intelligence and is a less than average tackler. Amos is an average football player at best and paired with Ford you have two roll down safeties because neither are good enough in deep coverage to play both at the same time.

OT - Yikes! It was good to see #69 back in the fold after a difficult last two years, but they need an offensive tackle on the right side that can protect against pass rushers. Obviously the last game against Detroit was brutal. I like Tom but he still looks like he needs to add a bit of strength and he might grow into a starter in the next couple of years. He can play multiple positions which nice.

LB - Currently I am not a fan of Walker. I think he makes plays because he is just super athletic but he has no real idea how to be a box linebacker. His foolishness during the season also tells me he needs a lot of maturing as a professional athlete. He currently lacks the ability to make the simple run reads and pass reads needed to be a good linebacker. Please don't count tackles because too many of them come after a 5+ yard gains. Campbell just doesn't do it for me, he has the exact opposite issue as Walker, not athletic enough to make plays off his reads.

TE/FB - Lewis can't last much longer in this league. I like DeGuara in the hybrid role but I haven't seen the athleticism out of him to warrant his 3rd round selection. I am sure Tonyan will be better another year removed off of ACL.

WR No issues with the development of the young guys, and Lazard is good at what he does, he isn't a sure handed receiver and he is no burner on the deep ball stuff. Cobb is gone, so we need another cat that can sort of be a hybrid slot receiver that can block a little bit and truly has a nasty attitude, that will almost be more important than some kind of freak speed or athleticism.

QB Whether Rodgers stays or retires the Packers owe him 53 million in 2023 and that's a nut punch either way. I guess that's what happens when he can hold the organization hostage. I believe Love will be fine, I like his arm and it seems his feet have improved. Obviously it's hard to tell about how far he has come in his understanding and execution of the offense but I think in the bits we have seen he has the tools to get it done in 2023 if Rodgers retires. The Packers need a back up if Rodgers retires I would like to see the Packers invest in youth rather than pick up a veteran. Love doesn't need that added pressure of that if he is the starter in 2023.

Kicker - Crosby is done. Need to replace him without breaking the draft board.

[Joemailman]

Packers #15 picks:

1993: Wayne Simmons

1979: Eddie Lee Ivery

1958: Jim Taylor

1954: Bob Fleck

1952: Billy Howton

1949: Dan Dworsky

[run pMc]

Good writeup Nutz. I mostly agree. I also think they need someone who can play 5-tech (I think Lowry is gone) and another EDGE/OLB player as well. Gary will not 100% and Preston is ok but his best years are behind him. Safety is a big one, as is figuring out slot defender although I think they will go with Savage there.

I think they will take a TE early also - Deguara is the only one under contract. Tonyan is 29, I think he's a nice player but his legs weren't there this year and he might be gone anyway.

OL had a bad game vs. DET. They've been pretty good in general but it depends on Bahk. They have some young players who could make a leap (C.Jones, R.Walker, Z.Tom, doubtful on Rhyan) but the depth is a concern. Newman could get you out of a game at RG, and I'd rather see Hanson playing for the Bears. Taking Myers over Humphrey is looking like a questionable choice at best. I could see them take a player mid rounds unless someone falls to them early.

WR - I think they need someone besides Watson to threaten the deep part of the field. He's been hurt a lot, and if he's hurt you better have a backup, or a backup plan. If Lazard stays he can play the big slot, but they will need another body at WR.

[texaspackerbacker]

Packers #15 picks:

1993: Wayne Simmons

1979: Eddie Lee Ivery

1958: Jim Taylor

1954: Bob Fleck

1952: Billy Howton

1949: Dan Dworsky

Are you sure? I thought Jim Taylor was a 4th or 5th rounder.

[red]

Are you sure? I thought Jim Taylor was a 4th or 5th rounder.

15th pick of the second round according to wikiland

edit, wait no

it was the 15th pick overall, which back then was in the second round (13 picks per round)

#66 was taken in the third round #36 overall and #68 was taken in the 4th with the 39th overall pick

now thats how you draft

[Joemailman]

Taylor was the 15th pick, which in 1958 was in the 2nd round.

[Joemailman]

Recent #15 picks:

2022: Houston - Kenyon Green

2021: New England - Mac Jones

2020: Denver - Jerry Jeudy

2019: Washington - Dwayne Haskins

2018: Oakland - Kolton Miller

[bobblehead]

I have no clue what to expect in the first, but I am convinced they go TE in the 2nd, probably trading up.

[run pMc]

I have no clue what to expect in the first, but I am convinced they go TE in the 2nd, probably trading up.

I like Dalton Kincaid, a bit of an oversized WR type, but he can run, get down the seam, has good hands, and can even get some YAC. Mayer is the most complete TE in the draft, but taking him in R1 feels rich to me.
Sam LaPorta or Tucker Kraft in R3-4? No idea, but I think TEs are risky picks. Take a while to develop, few really do, and you can sometimes develop a guy off the PS a la Tonyan.

I think they'll look at DL, EDGE or maybe a falling OT in R1. I suppose a DB is a possibility too, if they can play safety or in the slot (or they move Rasul to safety).

R3-4 will be when (if?) they start looking at a WR. Maybe Xavier Hutchinson?

One thing is for sure -- I'm glad they didn't trade their R2 for Chase Claypool.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm fine with bringing back the OL, as is. With Bakh and Jenkins healthy, it's a good group with some young guys who could still develop (Myers, Runyan, Tom). If they get rid of Bakh, then we'd need to look for another OT, but Bakh, Tom, Nijman, and Jenkins (if they get in a pickle) is fine. I'm a big fan of Tom though. Nijman is really good third OT.

[run pMc]

I'm fine with bringing back the OL, as is. With Bakh and Jenkins healthy, it's a good group with some young guys who could still develop (Myers, Runyan, Tom). If they get rid of Bakh, then we'd need to look for another OT, but Bakh, Tom, Nijman, and Jenkins (if they get in a pickle) is fine. I'm a big fan of Tom though. Nijman is really good third OT.

Agree, although Myers has had shaky moments.
To play devil's advocate - you take a tackle the year before you'll need one, and I think in 13.5 months time both Njiman and Bahk could very well be gone.

[texaspackerbacker]

We have plenty of quantity at TE. If you're not gonna take a sure thing superstar (such a thing may not exist at TE) in the first round, we don't really need another of what we have four or so of.

Myers has been probably the best we have in the OLine. Nijman did good against most pass rushers and wasn't horrible at run blocking. He had a bad game against a speed rusher last night, a guy that Tom was more suitable to match up with. Given the terrible uncertainty when it comes to drafting OLine early, I'd say just go with what we have - Nijman and Tom as the Tackles, Jenkins and Runyan as the Guards, and Myers. Arguably the line was as good pass blocking and a lot better run blocking when Bakhtiari was out anyway.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Agree, although Myers has had shaky moments.
To play devil's advocate - you take a tackle the year before you'll need one, and I think in 13.5 months time both Njiman and Bahk could very well be gone.

True. Same with EDGE. EDGE looks slightly more dire than OT. It's going to be EDGE, OT or possibly CB or DT.

[smuggler]

Good post from Nutz, but I'll add concerning the safeties that Amos is gone next year, isn't he? Realistically we need two safeties.

[texaspackerbacker]

Is there any clear indication that Amos will be gone? I don't think so, and I certainly hope not. I agree, though, we do need one Safety - early, possibly even first round.

[run pMc]

Is there any clear indication that Amos will be gone? I don't think so, and I certainly hope not. I agree, though, we do need one Safety - early, possibly even first round.

They added void years rather than extending him, same as Lowry. His play took a dip and to the eye test he looked slower. Might not be a good fit in Barry's scheme. Love the dude but I wouldn't count on him returning. Safeties can be found in later rounds but if there's a difference-maker you take one. Savage is on his 5th year and will be playing for a long term contract. I think they will look at 2 safeties; Rudy Ford is a nice ST player but he shouldn't be starting. It's possible though unlikely one of Micah Abernathy, Tariq Carpenter, or Innis Gaines could become a starter...but I'm not sure any would be a high quality starter.

[RashanGary]

All these void years stink. Takes away the comp pick when they leave. The bill for mortgaging the future is coming due. Best case scenario might be having an all time down year or two and lucking into the next HOFer

[Deputy Nutz]

Not sure about the dire need for edge. With Gary going down it gave a couple of young guy the ability to get valuable game reps. Preston is above average, getting up there in age. You can always add edge rushers because every team needs them, but I like what I saw from Engabare and if Smith doesn't come back then I would think the Packers would have to draft an edge player. I would like to see Quay Walker used more off the edge though. I think he could actually be a special player on the edge or in space. There is a lot going on in the middle for him trying to see through all the traffic.
The issue I have is that Gary and Preston Smith are basically small defensive ends without the ability to actually give much in the way of coverage so if they are in the game most likely they are rushing and you probably want them to since they are your best pass rushers but then the offensive line and QB can usually pin point who the 4 rushers are. The two DTs and the two stand up ends. its not brain surgery for christsakes.
I like the combination of Reed, Wyatt, and Clark as the 3 for 2 in the Packers nickel scheme and those three should get the majority of the reps in the Packers base 3-4. The rush schemes are ridiculously simplistic.

[run pMc]

We have plenty of quantity at TE. If you're not gonna take a sure thing superstar (such a thing may not exist at TE) in the first round, we don't really need another of what we have four or so of.

Myers has been probably the best we have in the OLine. Nijman did good against most pass rushers and wasn't horrible at run blocking. He had a bad game against a speed rusher last night, a guy that Tom was more suitable to match up with. Given the terrible uncertainty when it comes to drafting OLine early, I'd say just go with what we have - Nijman and Tom as the Tackles, Jenkins and Runyan as the Guards, and Myers. Arguably the line was as good pass blocking and a lot better run blocking when Bakhtiari was out anyway.

You and I see the roster differently.
They have one TE under contract as of Mar 1 - Deguara. Many would argue GB will have neither quantity nor quality at TE on that day. Tyler Davis, Tonyan, and Big Dog could all be gone.

As for OL - Myers got schooled by Isaiah freaking Buggs in Week 18, and by several other IDL this year. IMO the decision to draft him over Creed Humphrey was a gamble that hasn't paid off. He's not bad but he's no Linsley. He was probably the healthiest of the OL this year, but I wouldn't say he was the best. I'm willing to give him a break since he was hurt for a lot of last year, but next year he has to show growth. I don't think Rodgers was cursing him out to snap the ball on time this year at least.

Overall I think GB OL was in the top 5 if not top 10 in most metrics, but there are some weaknesses. Like many teams, they have trouble with dominant DTs like Quinnen Williams. They are mostly big athletes who can pull and get to the 2nd level for blocks; they aren't big road graders. That's how zone schemes generally are though. They will have trouble running some power scheme plays.
Their pass pro is pretty good, Rodgers release time this year was .1 seconds longer than last and his pressure rate was lower. The ground game was pretty good overall, even when they went away from giving 33 the ball. The blocking improved by mid-season once they had Bahk and Jenkins on the left with Njiman at RT. Also needed time for them to recover from the ACLs.

Getting Hanson and Newman out of the lineup took too long and affected their stats and their season.

[run pMc]

Not sure about the dire need for edge. With Gary going down it gave a couple of young guy the ability to get valuable game reps. Preston is above average, getting up there in age. You can always add edge rushers because every team needs them, but I like what I saw from Engabare and if Smith doesn't come back then I would think the Packers would have to draft an edge player. I would like to see Quay Walker used more off the edge though. I think he could actually be a special player on the edge or in space. There is a lot going on in the middle for him trying to see through all the traffic.
The issue I have is that Gary and Preston Smith are basically small defensive ends without the ability to actually give much in the way of coverage so if they are in the game most likely they are rushing and you probably want them to since they are your best pass rushers but then the offensive line and QB can usually pin point who the 4 rushers are. The two DTs and the two stand up ends. its not brain surgery for christsakes.
I like the combination of Reed, Wyatt, and Clark as the 3 for 2 in the Packers nickel scheme and those three should get the majority of the reps in the Packers base 3-4. The rush schemes are ridiculously simplistic.

Yeah I wonder about their scheme with the OLBs. I know they like Preston and Gary's size - basically they like the OLBs to be 6-5 270 pound monsters -- seems like basically they are running a 4-3 with how they lineup and rush.

I think they need both an EDGE rusher and a 5-tech DE, and could see them taking both early. I wouldn't call the need for EDGE 'dire', but it's supposedly a good year for EDGE - so it makes sense, especially since the best pass rushers go earlier. Lowry shouldn't be back, Reed likely won't. I have zero faith in J.Ford becoming anything, and he's basically NT3 anyway. Slaton, Clark, Wyatt and one or two DL to round that group out. I think they should have 5 DL so they don't wear down as much against running teams, but then again they usually only play 2 DL at a time. If they can find a 5-tech DE who can play the run and rush the passer then you've really got something (assuming Barry knows what to do with them).

I also wonder if having a 'smaller' guy like a Will McDonald occasionally come in to rush (or drop) would shake things up. Might give them more speed on the edge. Quay can also blitz - I saw them run some cross blitzes or occasionally rush 5... Barry rarely calls blitzes but unless they improve the pass rush with talent he may have to. After Gary's injury they were either manufacturing pressure via blitzes or just getting lucky against garbage OL's.

Big difference between MIN's 3rd string C and DET's Frank Ragnow, and it showed.

[HarveyWallbangers]

There a bunch of big EDGE rushers at the top of this draft. Pick #15 might be a sweet spot to get an EDGE in the mold that the Packers like.

Murphy and Wilson will probably be gone by pick #15 though.

Myles Murphy = 6'5" 275
Tyree Wilson = 6'6" 275
Isaiah Foskey = 6'5" 265

Others of note:

Felix Anudike-Uzomah = 6'4" 255
Lukas Van Ness = 6'5" 275
Andre Carter = 6'7" 260
Zach Harrison = 6'6" 265
Keion White = 6'5" 286 (although at that size, he's probably too big for 3-4 OLB)

This seems like an usually big EDGE class.

[RashanGary]

There a bunch of big EDGE rushers at the top of this draft. Pick #15 might be a sweet spot to get an EDGE in the mold that the Packers like.

Murphy and Wilson will probably be gone by pick #15 though.

Myles Murphy = 6'5" 275
Tyree Wilson = 6'6" 275
Isaiah Foskey = 6'5" 265

Others of note:

Felix Anudike-Uzomah = 6'4" 255
Lukas Van Ness = 6'5" 275
Andre Carter = 6'7" 260
Zach Harrison = 6'6" 265
Keion White = 6'5" 286 (although at that size, he's probably too big for 3-4 OLB)

This seems like an usually big EDGE class.

Hey man, good call on Tom. And the RB in Denver a year ago. And Watson. Looking forward to your draft content this year!

[Fosco33]

With Gary back - is edge the biggest need?

I don’t trust Bahk to stay healthy and think another young tackle could be good.

Or a Safety

[Joemailman]

Edge may not be the greatest immediate need, but you can never have enough good pass rushers and Gary may not be ready to go at start of next season. Remember Packers drafted Gary right after signing P and Z Smith. If Packers draft Safety in the 1st they need to make sure the player is really suited to play safety, and not slot corner like Savage. I'm okay with drafting OT if there's one they really like.

[SudsMcBucky]

Why do I feel like the Packers drafting yet another D player in the first round is throwing good money after bad. And by keeping Barry as DC, we're never going to be good on that side of the ball anyway. Just go all-in on offense and try to win shoot-outs.

[Deputy Nutz]

Packers have to be creative with there pass rush schemes and they are not. It has nothing to do with Gary or Smith because they are both very good edge rushers.

Yes, their nickel defense sets up more like a 4-3 with "hybrid" Edges and instead of a Sam linebacker you have an extra defensive back. The idea was to steal an extra defensive back with still having 4 defensive line type bodies and 2 inside linebackers. Your 7th run defender would be a safety or depending on how you play your 5th defensive back.

Gary and Smith can't really be considered outside linebackers. They don't do outside linebacker type stuff in their nickel package which is what they play 85% of the time. I don't think any team team actually plays the majority of snaps out of traditional defenses any more.

With looking at the roster, I would say that the Packers like most teams in the NFL are always willing to invest early in the draft on pass rushers and coverage players. Take the best player available if you are the Packers and I don't think you can go wrong.

Someone said Will McDonald name, very athletic pass rusher that played in a scheme at Iowa St that didn't always set him up to be super productive. He struggles with the mental side of the game so asking him to be multiple might be asking a lot if he couldn't do it in college.

[run pMc]

Keion White = 6'5" 286 (although at that size, he's probably too big for 3-4 OLB)
I was looking at him as possibly a 5-tech, given Lowry is 6-6 295.

there are a number of EDGE guys that fit what GB likes


Packers have to be creative with there pass rush schemes and they are not.
This is true and it drives me crazy. Their schemes are too vanilla. I think that's on the coaches.

[run pMc]

From Mike Tanier:


According to Sports Info Solutions, quarterbacks averaged a 48.8% completion rate and 5.97 yards per attempt when pressured, with a 3.3% interception rate. When not pressured: a 70.2% completion rate, 7.44 yards per attempt, a 1.9% interception rate. Read those splits again. Pressure is the single biggest external factor impacting quarterback performance

Turns out pass rush matters, go figure.

[Deputy Nutz]

You can run a timer in your head when you watch just about any NFL game. If a Qb drops and stays in a clean pocket and is afforded more than 5 seconds to throw the ball its usually a down field completion. The middle of the field will always open up, and then you add in comeback routes and its damn easy for NFL caliber Qbs.

[run pMc]

I'm just going to say go BPA. I do think they'll go DL/OLB in R1 though. Pass rush matters.

With how variable defenses can be year-to-year, I wonder if they'd be better off making stronger investments on offense. They need more playmakers than Watson and Jones. Outside of them they don't really have anyone.

[Joemailman]

I think they go BPA out of DL/S/Edge/OT/WR/TE.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think they go BPA out of DL/S/Edge/OT/WR/TE.

They aren't going TE at #15--especially for an average athlete like Mayer. I doubt they go S--unless they trade down. This draft looks strong at EDGE and DL. I suspect that's where they go--although you can never rule out a 1st round OT for the Packers. It doesn't look like a great year at OT.

[Joemailman]

They aren't going TE at #15--especially for an average athlete like Mayer. I doubt they go S--unless they trade down. This draft looks strong at EDGE and DL. I suspect that's where they go--although you can never rule out a 1st round OT for the Packers. It doesn't look like a great year at OT.

I tend to agree. But after he took an ILB at #22 last year, you can't be too sure.

[Fritz]

There a bunch of big EDGE rushers at the top of this draft. Pick #15 might be a sweet spot to get an EDGE in the mold that the Packers like.

Murphy and Wilson will probably be gone by pick #15 though.

Myles Murphy = 6'5" 275
Tyree Wilson = 6'6" 275
Isaiah Foskey = 6'5" 265

Others of note:

Felix Anudike-Uzomah = 6'4" 255
Lukas Van Ness = 6'5" 275
Andre Carter = 6'7" 260
Zach Harrison = 6'6" 265
Keion White = 6'5" 286 (although at that size, he's probably too big for 3-4 OLB)

This seems like an usually big EDGE class.

Why do people so often capitalize "edge" rusher as EDGE rusher?

I see it all the time, not picking on you - it's just that I see it in your post, like so many others.

I mean, we don't write SLOT corner. I just wonder why it's done that way.

[Joemailman]

The last time the Packers drafted a _______ in the 1st round.

QB: 2020 - Jordan Love

RB: 1990 - Darrell Thompson

WR: 2002 - Javon Walker

TE: 2000 - Bubba Franks

OT: 2011 - Derek Sherrod

IOL: 1994 - Aaron Taylor

DL: 2022 - Devonte Wyatt

Edge: - 2019 - Rashan Gary

CB: - 2021 - Eric Stokes

S: - 2019 - Darnell Savage

[sharpe1027]

Parallel Darrell!

[run pMc]

Why do people so often capitalize "edge" rusher as EDGE rusher?

I see it all the time, not picking on you - it's just that I see it in your post, like so many others.

I mean, we don't write SLOT corner. I just wonder why it's done that way.

It's often used in the websites to differentiate the position from ILBs or DT's. Just a newer thing; makes it easier since some teams use multiple fronts often. I've seen ED for Edge defender as well, or DB for a secondary player who plays multiple spots (usually a S who plays slot corner).
Where it drives me crazy is when some sites list players without any height & weight dimensions, so you have no idea if the dude is 6-5 290 or 6-3 240 without digging. There's a big difference in whether they'd be an undersized DPR (designated pass rusher) type of payer or a DE you can play on base downs.
Gute's not likely to look at an undersized edge defender so it matters.

[run pMc]

Parallel Darrell!

I had high hopes for Darrell, then he fumbled on the goal line vs. KC and I knew he wasn't going to cut it. Different era back then when RBs mattered.
Drafting Tony Bennett, LeRoy Butler and Bryce Paup (and Jackie Harris) still made that a pretty good draft overall.

Hey, you remember Brent Fullwood? RB drafted with the 4th overall pick in 87. We used to call him Brent Fumblewood. Probably the last RB picked in R1 before Thompson. Thank goodness they eventually got smart and hired guys like Wolf to run things.

[Bretsky]

I tend to agree. But after he took an ILB at #22 last year, you can't be too sure.


Given our history, are we just eliminating the offense from consideration in round one ? lol

[ThunderDan]

I have no idea what we draft this year. S, DL, OLB, stud OT if 1 drops, WR, TE. It seems like every position could use an improvement over 2022 play.

[ThunderDan]

Other than QB, I think every position is open and maybe even QB if someone drops. CB seemed great going into 22 but Douglas regressed and Stokes got hurt and who knows how he will respond after injury. Safety was a complete shit show this year. Amos played ok in stretches but Savage/Ford/whoever else was a tire fire.

[red]

i think i'll vomit if we draft defense in the 1st again

some site had the biggest 1 year drop offs from last year to this year based on PFF

11 of the 16 players they mentioned were on defense. when you have that many players drop off like that you have to look at the coaches

[sharpe1027]

I had high hopes for Darrell, then he fumbled on the goal line vs. KC and I knew he wasn't going to cut it. Different era back then when RBs mattered.
Drafting Tony Bennett, LeRoy Butler and Bryce Paup (and Jackie Harris) still made that a pretty good draft overall.

Hey, you remember Brent Fullwood? RB drafted with the 4th overall pick in 87. We used to call him Brent Fumblewood. Probably the last RB picked in R1 before Thompson. Thank goodness they eventually got smart and hired guys like Wolf to run things.

I tried to forget him, but I still remember.

We got one good season and ended up getting just a 7th rounder for him like four years after he was drafted. Loads of potential, but no desire to apply it

[HarveyWallbangers]

Why do people so often capitalize "edge" rusher as EDGE rusher?

I see it all the time, not picking on you - it's just that I see it in your post, like so many others.

I mean, we don't write SLOT corner. I just wonder why it's done that way.

I've just gotten used to seeing it. Any board or scouting reports that show EDGE (instead of OLB, DE, etc.) capitalize that now.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/sr-prospect/myles-murphy-19d31cf7-82f7-430f-a351-6096034d69bd/
https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2023/will-anderson-jr

TBH, it would look kind of silly if it wasn't capitalized. I think it's done because all of the other positions are abbreviations and are capitalized.

[run pMc]

i think i'll vomit if we draft defense in the 1st again

some site had the biggest 1 year drop offs from last year to this year based on PFF

11 of the 16 players they mentioned were on defense. when you have that many players drop off like that you have to look at the coaches

I'm not surprised. Defense tends to have higher variability year over year performance-wise than offense... I think because things like interceptions, sacks, forced fumbles have a certain amount of luck involved, and also because the teams (and their QBs) they might face could be very different from one season to the next. Some guys -- cough, DeVondre Campbell -- can also just go on a hot streak, coincidentally in a contract year.

[run pMc]

Given our history, are we just eliminating the offense from consideration in round one ? lol

yes

unless it's an OT.

[Joemailman]

Over the last 17 drafts, Packers players on offense drafted in 1st round are Brian Bulaga, Derek Sherrod and Jordan Love. That's it.

[smuggler]

Have a feeling we will take the ND TE if we have the shot. Tonyan is gone, and so is Marcedes. So, we really desperate for a good solid piece there.

[Fritz]

I've just gotten used to seeing it. Any board or scouting reports that show EDGE (instead of OLB, DE, etc.) capitalize that now.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/sr-prospect/myles-murphy-19d31cf7-82f7-430f-a351-6096034d69bd/
https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2023/will-anderson-jr

TBH, it would look kind of silly if it wasn't capitalized. I think it's done because all of the other positions are abbreviations and are capitalized.

Got it. I guess I thought it was just OLB for "outside line backer," but apparently that's changed. Maybe for good reason, because as a couple of posters here have noted, the way GB plays Smith and Gary, they are more pass rushers who stand up rather than true linebackers.

[Deputy Nutz]

DE = EDGE
3-4 OLB = EDGE
4-3 OLB = LB

Glad to clear it up for you all

[Deputy Nutz]

Have a feeling we will take the ND TE if we have the shot. Tonyan is gone, and so is Marcedes. So, we really desperate for a good solid piece there.

Can't ever say for sure who the Packers are going to take, it's going to be someone with above average measurables and tested athleticism for their size though. Think AJ Dillon, Dillion's size and tests numbers said he was an elite athlete, but the reality is that he is a decent football player that doesn't have the balance or aggressiveness to make him an actually elite football player. Gute doesn't trust his eyes and his scout's eyes when it comes to truly evaluating football players. Quay Walker - Super athletic, but can he actually read his keys and trust his instincts?

I think based on need the TE from ND would fit a need, not a huge fan of drafting a TE with the 16th pick, odds are he won't be any better or worse than a TE taken in the 3rd round. Same goes for running back, offensive line, and linebackers. I would even throw safety in there but teams are doing much more with the safety position than ever before so getting a safety that can do it all would be a game changer like Derwin James, or a hall of famer like LeRoy Butler.

Some would say, "Nutz, what about left tackle?"
Valuable point, but you better be a damn good evaluator thinking you can spend a pick in the top half of the first round on a left tackle and hope he is going to pan out. If I ran a war room, I would always draft 2-3 offensive lineman every year after day 1 in the draft. Baktari was 4th round pick and started at LT as a rookie, Bryan Bulaga was 1st round pick and was nothing more than a solid RT in the league. There is no need to reach on offensive lineman, especially if you don't trust your eyes and what you see on film.

[bobblehead]

DE = EDGE
3-4 OLB = EDGE
4-3 OLB = LB

Glad to clear it up for you all

Most of us knew that, but it still doesn't clear up the point one poster made about WHICH edge they are referencing. The 2 are not often interchangeable. Gary could probably play either one, but its unlikely Micah parsons could.

[Joemailman]

It's doubtful Mike Mayer will have the athleticism Gute looks for in a 1st round pick. Every 1st round pick with the exception of Jordan Love has had a RAS score of 9.5 or higher. And Love was pretty good at 8.46.

[run pMc]

It's doubtful Mike Mayer will have the athleticism Gute looks for in a 1st round pick. Every 1st round pick with the exception of Jordan Love has had a RAS score of 9.5 or higher. And Love was pretty good at 8.46.

He's a good player but not what I'd call an elite athlete. Is he better than Hockenson was coming out? Not sure. I think he's been ND's leading receiver for two years?
Mayer is an interesting player but taking a TE in R1 is too rich for me. I think it's a decent TE class and they can (and should) find one later in the draft.

If there's a decent pass rusher or a difference maker at safety I'd take them over Mayer. Amos is gone, Savage is concerning, Ford is a backup. Preston Smith is old and Gary won't be back until October. They need help at TE but I wouldn't overprioritize it. BPA

[Deputy Nutz]

Most of us knew that, but it still doesn't clear up the point one poster made about WHICH edge they are referencing. The 2 are not often interchangeable. Gary could probably play either one, but its unlikely Micah parsons could.

Does he line up in a 5 technique? a 9 technique with a TE? if he does he is an EDGE. Don't care if his hand is in the ground or he is in a two point stance. The Packers would use Parsons and Watt the same exact way. Show me film of TJ Watt consistently dropping into coverage? Pass Rushers = EDGE, Droppers = OLBs. LOS player = Edge, Off Ball = OLB

[Joemailman]

Nflmockdraftdatabase has Michael Mayer as the favorite for the Packers pick. https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/mock-drafts/2023/consensus-mock-draft-2023

[bobblehead]

Does he line up in a 5 technique? a 9 technique with a TE? if he does he is an EDGE. Don't care if his hand is in the ground or he is in a two point stance. The Packers would use Parsons and Watt the same exact way. Show me film of TJ Watt consistently dropping into coverage? Pass Rushers = EDGE, Droppers = OLBs. LOS player = Edge, Off Ball = OLB

I understand, but the packers won't use a small edge. Not in a base anyway. If a team tried to line up Micah at edge on first down consistently a smart coach would run him over. Of course after watching the NFL for 4 decades I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that smart coach is an oxymoron.

[run pMc]

Any thoughts on Elijah Higgins as a Lazard replacement?
Barring becoming a combine darling, probably could be had late Day 3 or UDFA. Big dude, decent athlete.

Do we think they move from using a big WR to a TE instead for big-slot receiver who sometimes blocks? I would think there are plenty of 6-4+ TE's who are better receivers than blockers that could at least approximate what Lazard does as a WR.

[Joemailman]

Any thoughts on Elijah Higgins as a Lazard replacement?
Barring becoming a combine darling, probably could be had late Day 3 or UDFA. Big dude, decent athlete.

Do we think they move from using a big WR to a TE instead for big-slot receiver who sometimes blocks? I would think there are plenty of 6-4+ TE's who are better receivers than blockers that could at least approximate what Lazard does as a WR.

He definitely fits the bill. If he runs like Lazard did at the Combine, he'll probably go undrafted. If he runs well though, there will be quite a bit of interest in him on draft day 3.

https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2023/elijah-higgins

[ThunderDan]

15: R1 P15 EDGE Myles Murphy - Clemson
46: R2 P15 S Brian Branch - Alabama
78: R3 P15 TE Dalton Kincaid - Utah
117: R4 P15 LB Nick Herbig - Wisconsin
150: R5 P15 CB Tyrique Stevenson - Miami
169: R5 P34 WR Malik Knowles - Kansas State
230: R7 P15 C Ricky Stromberg - Arkansas
233: R7 P18 OT Mike Edwards - Campbell
240: R7 P25 QB Stetson Bennett IV - Georgia

[run pMc]

15: R1 P15 EDGE Myles Murphy - Clemson
46: R2 P15 S Brian Branch - Alabama
78: R3 P15 TE Dalton Kincaid - Utah
117: R4 P15 LB Nick Herbig - Wisconsin
150: R5 P15 CB Tyrique Stevenson - Miami
169: R5 P34 WR Malik Knowles - Kansas State
230: R7 P15 C Ricky Stromberg - Arkansas
233: R7 P18 OT Mike Edwards - Campbell
240: R7 P25 QB Stetson Bennett IV - Georgia

Really early to mess with any of the mock simulators, based on having done so myself. A lot of early boards have Branch gone around P15 in R1, likewise with Kincaid gone by P15 in R2. From what little I've seen of Murphy, he looks like a stud...like him better than Breese.

Not sure about the rest of your draft but if they got Murphy, Branch and Kincaid the draftniks are going to love that draft.

I think the boards will start to look more similar after the combine. Right now the player rankings are all over the place. I've seen Lukas Van Ness go from a R3 guy to a top 20 guy for example.

[call_me_ishmael]

Is Jaxon Smith-Njigba Great Jennings?

Looks silky smooth.

https://twitter.com/TheOGfantasy/status/1615691098608771073

[run pMc]

I like him.
He had a remarkable season the previous year, although a chunk of it was underneath stuff and he had Wilson and Olave on the team. It's worth noting he outproduced both of them.
Seems like he's good at most things but not great at any one thing. His size isn't prohibitively small either at about 6-0 195. There are a lot smaller receivers in this draft class. I can understand the Greg Jennings comps.

I've seen him mocked to MIN a lot, and GB once or twice. Could be a very good slot receiver. Easily a top 50 pick, a likely R1 pick.

I don't think this WR class is as good as the last few have been. TE class is looking very good though.

[jklowan]

My 1st way way to early Mock draft

15 - Brian Branch S | Alabama
Branch is a versatile defensive back prospect who has the ability to make plus-level plays at every alignment. But teams who draft him are also getting a player who plays with intensity and a passion for the game that can help him become an influential team leader.
Top Reasons to Buy In:
* Versatile defender
* High-level run defender
* High football IQ

45 - Dalton Kincaid TE | Utah
Kincaid is as an in-line blocker but he lacks mass and functional strength, which makes him inconsistent in college and likely ineffective in the NFL. Opponents have no issues powering and playing through him. Ideally, Kincaid would be another inch taller with a touch more mass and a tick more explosive but it’s hardly limiting to what he does best and that is being a factor in the passing game.
Kincaid has the makeup of a quality No. 2 tight end early in his career with the upside to develop into a quality starter by year two or three.
Top Reasons to Buy In:
* Outstanding ball skills and hands
* Body control and competitive toughness
* How he was used in college and translatability to the NFL

78 - Adetomiwa Adebawore EDGE | Northwestern
Adebawore is likely at his best as an interior pass-rusher, where his aggressiveness and quickness can pair with his condensed frame to offer a small strike zone and low leverage against interior, heavy-footed blockers. What he does on early downs will vary from team to team and is likely to be the ultimate variable in how highly he is drafted. Teams unafraid of condensing their edge players inside on obvious passing situations will be most drawn to Adebawore, as that opens him up to playing a higher percentage of snaps and living up to a more lofty valuation and investment.
Top Reasons to Buy In:
* Versatility to align in a slew of positions on the front
* Interior penetration quickness is a winning passing-down trait
* High-motor player with tireless pursuit skills
* Natural leverage at the point of attack with his condensed frame

115 - Wanya Morris OT | Oklahoma
Morris needs to find consistency with his performance. He is a streaky player that has too many lapses in technique that stem from a lack of patience. Those moments lead to folding at the waist in pass protection with too much lunging. As a run blocker, he can be too reliant on momentum and not use the ground for leverage, which takes away from his ability to sustain blocks for long enough. There’s no questioning the tools that Morris offers, he just needs consistency in deploying them and executing with more consistent technique and control.
Morris has room to develop and maximize his skill set with the makeup of an NFL starter that potentially has appeal at four positions. The biggest question is if he can find consistency to maximize his potential.
Top Reasons to Buy In:
* Physical upside
* Versatility
* Functional strength

149 - Dontay Demus Jr. WR | Maryland
Dontay Demus is a big-bodied receiver that has the frame to fit the traditional X receiver role. In press coverage, Demus has good strength to power through press and immediately get into his route. In off coverage, Demus has the speed to condense a defender’s cushion quickly and can force them to bail out or he can run right past them. With the ball in the air, Demus does a good job attacking the ball at its highest point and securing the pass. Demus can be utilized as a true red-zone target on back-pylon fade routes or jump balls because he can win 50/50 balls consistently.

170 - Dylan Horton DL | TCU
As a pass rusher, Horton appears to have all of the physical tools necessary to be productive at the next level. Horton has a quick first step, which he uses to quickly gain leverage on offensive linemen when he wants to win with a speed rush around the edge to get to the quarterback. Horton also shows that he can use some development in his pass-rush repertoire. There were multiple instances where Hortons initial move didn’t work and he didn’t appear to have a counter move to continue his rush for the duration of the play.
TCU underwent a defensive scheme change from the 2021 to the 2022 season, which forced Horton to move into the inside shade of the tackle which at times eliminated his ability to use his speed to win as a pass rusher. Projecting Horton to the next level, I believe that his athleticism and frame would be best utilized as an outside edge rusher where he can incorporate his natural athleticism on the edges to become a more productive pass-rusher.
Top Reasons to Buy In:
* High athletic upside
* Motor
* Physical temperament

233 - Kaevon Merriweather S | Iowa
I think that Merriweather is a solid Big Ten safety overall, and has the athleticism, physicality, and body control to play on Sundays. He has shown a lot of promise in his consistency as a run defender. He’s a competitor and wins, but I’m not sure if he dominates enough to be an everyday starter in the league. I use the word solid so much when watching his tape because he’s good at most things and great and some others. However, I do not see enough of the “WOW” factor production from him to believe he is a day-one guy. I can see him being taken on day three in the fourth round with a ceiling of late third round. With his play style, he can be an effective special teamer in the league and a reserve safety to provide depth. I do believe that he can play safety at the next level, but preferably in a heavy zone scheme defense. He is best when he can sit back in a half-field Cover 2 or middle-of-the-field Cover 3.
Top Reasons to Buy In:
* Solid body control and physicality
* Good athlete with speed
* Sufficient downhill tackler

236 - Keytaon Thompson WR | Virginia
For quarterback turned tight end, turned wide receiver, turned Swiss army knife Keytaon Thompson
, his path has become an annual constant for playmakers across the football landscape. A former standout signal-caller that once called the pocket home, his evolution into one of the country’s premier pass-catching options has introduced a unique prospect to become familiar with as we approach the 2022 college football campaign.

243 - Chris Murray IOL | Oklahoma
Chris Murray is an experienced blocker that is entering his fourth season as a Power 5 college starter. While most of that time has come at right guard, Murray has logged nearly 200 snaps at center, which suggests he can offer some positional flexibility on the interior. Murray is a tenacious blocker that has an aggressive mindset in how he operates. He is a good athlete that has the movement skills needed to work laterally, slide his feet, and get into space with longer pulls and climbs to the second level.

255 - Joseph Ngata WR | Clemson
The ball skills are an area that, when blended with Joseph Ngata’s length and size, offer some high-level receptions in tight coverage. I have a great appreciation for how Ngata plucks the football effortlessly away from his frame and he is typically unbothered by contact at the catch point. His production is more in the way of chunk plays versus high volume to this point, but his 19.0 yards per reception in 2021 is a testament to his ability to win down the field—which he does on back-shoulder throws, targets above the rim, and in contested opportunities. Clemson wasn’t persistently targeting throws to the deeper portions of the field, but his ability to win here is an element that is a plus and he should find more targets in this area in 2022. The physicality of his play is an obvious hallmark feature and it shows up after the catch, at the catch point, and even in the run game, where Ngata is effective in pressing hard off the line of scrimmage and latching onto secondary players. His contributions do also include a year of work in the return game—he averaged 23.4 yards per return as a freshman in 2019.

258 - Jarrick Bernard-Converse CB | LSU
* Can get up under a receiver’s chin and has the speed to flip his hips and run downfield. Bernard-Converse has the quick and surprisingly powerful hands to jostle receivers early. But he’s at his best peeking into the backfield.
* He tracks the ball well and does a nice job of getting his head around in plenty of time to avoid flags.
* Has good awareness and quick feet. Fluid backpedal, aggressive attacking the receiver from the snap, and flashes spectacular ball skills.
* Tracks and plays the ball well, and has decent hands for the interception. Provides very tight man coverage with playmaking ability in zone.
* His ball skills are very good. Bernard-Converse tracks the ball well downfield and has the hands and coordination to come away with interceptions even when Bernard-Converse isn’t targeted often.
* He’ll line up in press at times, where he has a quick and powerful punch. His ball skills are good, and he plays with an extremely confident and competitive demeanor.
* Extremely aggressive to come up and put his body in traffic to make tackles.

[bobblehead]

Any thoughts on Elijah Higgins as a Lazard replacement?
Barring becoming a combine darling, probably could be had late Day 3 or UDFA. Big dude, decent athlete.

Do we think they move from using a big WR to a TE instead for big-slot receiver who sometimes blocks? I would think there are plenty of 6-4+ TE's who are better receivers than blockers that could at least approximate what Lazard does as a WR.

You might get Mike Gesicki on a prove it deal. He is a really good "big slot". Not much of a blocker for a TE though. Miami misused him brutally this season so its possible he could be had for $5 million or so.

[RashanGary]

If a te can’t block, he’s useless.

[jklowan]

Not sure any tight end is a good blocker in year 1, it is an upside pick and a very early mock

[run pMc]

True. I like Kincaid as a receiving TE -- good hands, routes, and speed, so you can run him down the seam and he's got a little bit of toughness to break tackles. Tonyan never breaks a tackle, is 29 and doesn't really have any more upside.
You'll almost never find a rookie TE who is a good blocker, you do need them to be willing blockers at least.

I'd also be reluctant to ask TE's to sustain 1-1 blocks against a DE or stud OLB -- that's probably a losing proposition most of the time (e.g., we'd expect Rashan Gary to beat a TEs blocks at least 2/3 of the time) unless you're doing a quick (i.e., sub 2 seconds) pass play. They have to be competent enough to execute chip, double-team, and crack/stalk blocks for sure though.

[bobblehead]

If a te can’t block, he’s useless.

I would say he isn't a real TE, not that he is useless. Gisecki can block about like Lazard. You can't expect him to open holes in the run game, but line him up in the slot and utilize his actual skill set. But I agree, I prefer all my players to be useful in all situations, or else you are telegraphing your intent to the defense. That's a job for fat mike.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm pretty sure my super sleeper at S is going to be Jason Taylor of Oklahoma State. I saw him mentioned in practice reports as a standout during NFLPA Collegiate Bowl week--which primarily mentioned his tackling ability. Then, I watched him in the game. He really stood out. The tackling showed, it looked like his speed was solid, and he made a couple of big plays. I read more about him. He seems like a good kid, and he had a great season with 99 tackles and 6 interceptions. He had like 3 game clinching turnover plays this season. I was surprised when I didn't see him listed as draft worthy by any of the big boards I trust.

I noticed he was just invited to the scouting combine though. He's one that I'm interested in seeing how he tests. He looks draftable to me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBIazZfabmk

[texaspackerbacker]

I'll throw this bone to the shitheads and Rodgers haters: If he's gonna get traded after June 1, as so many of ya'all think, I tip off of that would be the Packers drafting a QB fairly early. Whatever they think of Love, they would need a back up, and they probably would want to hedge their bets and get him some competition. Of course, I suppose a 3rd-5th round pick could indicate a trade of Love too.

[run pMc]

I'm pretty sure my super sleeper at S is going to be Jason Taylor of Oklahoma State.

Keep them coming Harvey, they were admittedly his highlights but they showed good instincts and tackling ability, things Savage lacks.

[call_me_ishmael]

I'll throw this bone to the shitheads and Rodgers haters: If he's gonna get traded after June 1, as so many of ya'all think, I tip off of that would be the Packers drafting a QB fairly early. Whatever they think of Love, they would need a back up, and they probably would want to hedge their bets and get him some competition. Of course, I suppose a 3rd-5th round pick could indicate a trade of Love too.

We'll know what's happening well before June 1st IMO. Any trade would be done before the draft, even if not officially completed until after the deadline.

[Fosco33]

We'll know what's happening well before June 1st IMO. Any trade would be done before the draft, even if not officially completed until after the deadline.

W/ the cap hit - I bet they agree in concept but execute after the draft and w/ 2024-2025 picks

[bobblehead]

Keep them coming Harvey, they were admittedly his highlights but they showed good instincts and tackling ability, things Savage lacks.

Savages highlights were awesome. Jumping coverages, cutting down runners. Highlights aren't game film.

[RashanGary]

Who has a better situation, the Packers or Bears??

[ThunderDan]

Who has a better situation, the Packers or Bears??

Based on what criteria?

The Bears are in a much better position to acquire new players. They have a major talent deficiency, but with good drafting and FA signings could put a roster trending in the right direction together.

[RashanGary]

Based on what criteria?

The Bears are in a much better position to acquire new players. They have a major talent deficiency, but with good drafting and FA signings could put a roster trending in the right direction together.

All criteria. Would you rather have Fields, endless cash to spend and the #1 pick or would you rather have our roster and cap situation?

[Joemailman]

Bears will have the opportunity to make a lot of player acquisitions but there's no guarantee they'll get it right. Plenty of bad teams have been in a similar situation and blew it. In 2018 they could have drafted Mahomes but instead traded up and took Trubisky. It's a different GM now, but he's totally unproven. Time will tell.

[run pMc]

Interesting question.
Yeah, if you flipflopped their rosters I think Gute and MLF could turn it around with Fields and all that cap space, but I'd still expect it to be a losing season, and at times ugly. Probably would take two years. The Bears have another year of building before they can be considered a WC threat IMO. Their talent/depth was that bad this year -- remember all the people they claimed at cutdowns? Asking rookies to make major impacts is like hoping your lottery ticket hits big...might happen but almost certainly won't.

Bears are bereft of talent in many places and they will have to get both FA and drafting right. No guarantee there. They'll be overpaying in FA as well, and the WR FA market is not a great one. I'd expect them to trade out of the #1 pick for more picks to build the roster... but if Fields doesn't improve this might be his last year in CHI.

My gut tells me they follow what PHI and DET have done by building their OL and DLs. Fields has a tendency to hold the ball and go Big Throw Hunting and he needs a good line for that.

FWIW I'm not convinced GB will be in their shoes in a few years, they actually have some talent on their roster on both sides of the ball...so you could theoretically renovate with guys like Watson, Jaire, etc. vs. completely rebuild.

[Fritz]

So do the Packers follow that blue print and draft heavily with their first few picks on offensive and defensive linemen?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Keep them coming Harvey, they were admittedly his highlights but they showed good instincts and tackling ability, things Savage lacks.

I looked back at my notes from last year to see if doing well in the Shrine practices actually matters. I think around 33% of the Shrine participants get drafted. (I think the Senior Bowl is over 90%.) Of the players that got a good or great grade in practices last year, 59% were drafted. So, it does matter a bit. Interestingly, the percentage would have been 70% without off ball LBs and safeties. It could have just been a bad year for off ball LBs and safeties at the Shrine Bowl last year though. Only 4 of the 16 off ball LBs and safeties were drafted. I find this stuff interesting. :)

[NewsBruin]

The Senior Bowl players' hotel is across the street from my office. Anyone worth a little light stalking this week?

[Fritz]

Maybe some of their girlfriends, if you're a young guy.

Or their moms, if you're my age.

[RashanGary]

Maybe some of their girlfriends, if you're a young guy.

Or their moms, if you're my age.

Christian Watsons mom is pretty hot. But she’s into black guys :roll:

[bobblehead]

All criteria. Would you rather have Fields, endless cash to spend and the #1 pick or would you rather have our roster and cap situation?

I'd rather be the Bears, but I would fire the head coach and bring in a QB whisperer to teach Fields how to play the position. Running for 100 yards doesn't make a winning QB.

That said, I think the packers will continue to be better because we played it right with Love, have a lot of young talent and will be fine as soon as we clear up the cap situation.

[bobblehead]

So do the Packers follow that blue print and draft heavily with their first few picks on offensive and defensive linemen?

My guess is that if Bresee is there they take him. If Branch is there they take him. If both are gone they take an edge. So yes, I think they draft a big defensive player since I think Branch will be gone when we pick.

[bobblehead]

Christian Watsons mom is pretty hot. But she’s into black guys :roll:

I tan really well.....

[call_me_ishmael]

have a lot of young talent and will be fine as soon as we clear up the cap situation.

Who is this young talent? If they had the young talent, they wouldn't be in the situation they're in. They don't really have any great 3rd or 4th year players. If they did have two great young players, they'd be a Super Bowl contending team and wouldn't have the cap situation they're in IMO.

Fritz, I personally would like to see them draft some big uglies. Big ugly in R1, R2, skill positions after that.

[Joemailman]

Who is this young talent? If they had the young talent, they wouldn't be in the situation they're in. They don't really have any great 3rd or 4th year players. If they did have two great young players, they'd be a Super Bowl contending team and wouldn't have the cap situation they're in IMO.



They had an off year after 3 straight 13 win seasons. That doesn't mean they don't have any young talent. They won 1 less game this year than the Eagles won last year. A lot can change in 1 year.

[jklowan]

YOUNG TALENT

GARY
JAIRE ALexander
KENNEY CLARK
AJ DILLION
RASUL DOUGLAS
ROMEO DOUBS
RUDY FORD
ELGTON JENKINS
JORDAN LOVE
JOSH MEYERS
KEISON NIXON
JARRAN REED
SEAN RHYAN
JON RUNYAN
CHRISTAIN WATSON
DEVONTE WYATT
YOSH NIJMAN
ROYCE NEWMAN

[call_me_ishmael]

They had an off year after 3 straight 13 win seasons. That doesn't mean they don't have any young talent. They won 1 less game this year than the Eagles won last year. A lot can change in 1 year.

I'm not saying they can't be successful and turn it around. In fact I think they will in he comes back! But their best players are on their second contracts (or later) already so they're making big bucks. I don't really think the Eagles are a young team either, although I don't know their make-up that well. Their OL *seems* to be old and that is the heart of the team, and their front 7 too.



GARY - Yes and will be paid like it
JAIRE ALexander - $$$$
KENNEY CLARK - $$$$
AJ DILLION - JAG
RASUL DOUGLAS - JAG
ROMEO DOUBS - Maybe
RUDY FORD - JAG
ELGTON JENKINS - $$$$
JORDAN LOVE - Maybe
JOSH MEYERS - Underwhelming for an R2 center for sure
KEISON NIXON - Jury out
JARRAN REED - JAG
SEAN RHYAN - LOL
JON RUNYAN - Decent player is he a starter on a top notch line? Shoot IDK. Is he anywhere close to TJ Lang or Eric Turner?
CHRISTAIN WATSON - Hopefully!
DEVONTE WYATT - Jury out
YOSH NIJMAN - Not a starter on a good line
ROYCE NEWMAN - LOL

[run pMc]

They do have some young talent on the roster - Gary, the CBs, Kenny Clark, Wyatt, Walker and TJ Slaton on defense. On offense, they have a mostly young OL (Elgton is 27), plus Dillon, Watson, Doubs, possibly Toure/Melton. They aren't totally lacking talent, but they have a few holes, and they underperformed last year. The defense is less than the sum of its parts, and they relied on rookies and RPOs too much on offense.

I can think of a handful of 'good' players for CHI: Darnell Mooney, Jaquan Brisker, Jaylon Johnson, Khalil Herbert, and Justin Fields. They have a few others probably I'm forgetting, but the point is GB has more talent under contract than CHI does. GB has a lot less cap space though, which is one area CHI can make up ground quickly if they use that space smartly.

I also wonder how long Fields going to survive long enough as a running QB. He's already taken a lot of hits and had some minor-ish injuries. I think that will start to add up, and with him still developing behind a suspect OL it's possible that even if he pans out he might be roadkill by then.

[red]

They had an off year after 3 straight 13 win seasons. That doesn't mean they don't have any young talent. They won 1 less game this year than the Eagles won last year. A lot can change in 1 year.

they had an up and coming young QB, we have a quickly declining old QB. big difference

thats why i said after last season that i would be happier if they moved on from rodgers.

going 8-9 with rodgers is pretty pathetic. if we had gone 8-9 with Love, then maybe we all feel a bit better about the situation and our future

its exciting to watch young guys taking small steps forward, its a gut punch watching old guys falling ass over tits backwards down the stairs

[Joemailman]

I'm not saying they can't be successful and turn it around. In fact I think they will in he comes back! But their best players are on their second contracts (or later) already so they're making big bucks. I don't really think the Eagles are a young team either, although I don't know their make-up that well. Their OL *seems* to be old and that is the heart of the team, and their front 7 too.

Packers ranked 11th in average age of player at the start of the 2022 season. And that's with 3 of the oldest players in the NFL. Packers are a pretty young team and could get younger depending on what happens with Rodgers, Lewis and Crosby. Other than Bakhtiari, all members of the OL are 27 or younger.

[call_me_ishmael]

Packers ranked 11th in average age of player at the start of the 2022 season. And that's with 3 of the oldest players in the NFL. Packers are a pretty young team and could get younger depending on what happens with Rodgers, Lewis and Crosby. Other than Bakhtiari, all members of the OL are 27 or younger.

I agree they have young players but they don’t have any good young players. They don’t have anyone that is dramatically outperforming their rookie contract and due for a huge raise like Jaire and arguably Gary. 2020, 2021 are looking horrible so far. Looking like 2013-2016 TT. You could let those draft classes walk and not resign them and still be about the same. That’s why the Packers stunk in 2017, 2018 and looking like they stunk in 2023 and possibly 2024.

[run pMc]

Agree the 2021 draft isn't looking great but the 2022 draft looks like a good one.

2020 draft has Dillon and Runyan Jr. (and Love and Deguara) so a bit meh.
If Love actually sticks around and shows something as a QB could be a good draft, Deguara was efficient when used this year.

I don't think they lack any good young players, but '20 and '21 produced few starters (Stokes, Myers, Runyan).

[call_me_ishmael]

If I'm the Packers, I'm thinking OT, DL, WR, TE, and S for the first five picks. Those are the holes. Gotta fill 'em. Kinda hoping for some trading up and loading up on earlier round players rather than depth. They need some home runs here.

[ThunderDan]

If I'm the Packers, I'm thinking OT, DL, WR, TE, and S for the first five picks. Those are the holes. Gotta fill 'em. Kinda hoping for some trading up and loading up on earlier round players rather than depth. They need some home runs here.

What are we going to trade up with? It's not like we have a ton of picks in the draft to wheel and deal with. Do you want to give up some of next year's picks?

[ThunderDan]

Fanspeak is allowing access to their Ultimate GM Draft Simulator through the weekend.

15: R1 P15 S Brian Branch - Alabama
45: R2 P14 TE Dalton Kincaid - Utah
100: R3 P37 LB Dorian Williams - Tulane
116: R4 P14 WR Charlie Jones - Purdue
128: R4 P26 G Warren McClendon - Georgia
151: R5 P15 DE Adetomiwa Adebawore - Northwestern
162: R5 P26 OT Ryan Hayes - Michigan
171: R5 P35 EDGE Robert Beal - Georgia
208: R6 P31 CB Darrell Luter Jr. - South Alabama
234: R7 P15 TE Josh Whyle - Cincinnati
237: R7 P18 WR Jake Bobo - UCLA
244: R7 P25 EDGE Isaiah Land - Florida A&M
257: R7 P38 LB Bumper Pool - Arkansas

[RashanGary]

Ted Thompson had great luck drafting WRs in the second round. But the best one he took was a white supremacist from Kansas State. Let that sink in.

[Fritz]

Ted Thompson had great luck drafting WRs in the second round. But the best one he took was a white supremacist from Kansas State. Let that sink in.

Do you have any evidence Jordy Nelson was or is a white supremacist? I have heard zero about anything like that.

[RashanGary]

Do you have any evidence Jordy Nelson was or is a white supremacist? I have heard zero about anything like that.

My woke black friend who was raised by a white mom and acts more white than anyone I know told me all white people are white supremacists. Wake up.

[red]

Fanspeak is allowing access to their Ultimate GM Draft Simulator through the weekend.

15: R1 P15 S Brian Branch - Alabama
45: R2 P14 TE Dalton Kincaid - Utah
100: R3 P37 LB Dorian Williams - Tulane
116: R4 P14 WR Charlie Jones - Purdue
128: R4 P26 G Warren McClendon - Georgia
151: R5 P15 DE Adetomiwa Adebawore - Northwestern
162: R5 P26 OT Ryan Hayes - Michigan
171: R5 P35 EDGE Robert Beal - Georgia
208: R6 P31 CB Darrell Luter Jr. - South Alabama
234: R7 P15 TE Josh Whyle - Cincinnati
237: R7 P18 WR Jake Bobo - UCLA
244: R7 P25 EDGE Isaiah Land - Florida A&M
257: R7 P38 LB Bumper Pool - Arkansas

do we really have that many picks, or are you projecting trades?

if we have that many picks then we definitely don't need that many rookies, time to make some trades