CALL OUT THE BLAME TIME

[Bretsky]

Pollster is striking again. There is a boatload of blame to go around. But who is most to blame for the Packers Crap Start here ?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I vote German Shepherd.

Seemed like Ted Thompson used to draft a WR in the 2nd round every year. German Shepherd’s refusal to address the WR position til it’s too late is fucking up Butte’s fragile rhythm. It’s a QB-plagued league. If the QB sucks, normally, the whole team sucks. German Shepherd shoulda drafted DK Metcalf and that Redcoats WR, McLauren or something, when he had the chance.

[Jaire]

I just posted on Gute's failure in another thread. I forgot to mention he extended Bakh too early. At the time, I was very concerned about Bakh's health.

But it's Gute, then ...... we'll see about MLF, but that line is so fragile right now: and that's 100% on Gute. It didn't begin this year, but with all that draft capital and knowing you need to get a starter out of this draft: he got cute and went ILB with the first pick. Nothing against Quay, and you can even take Quay if you drafted a WR in 2020 like you SHOULD and COULD have, half dozen ways.

Edit: Just to be very clear: the only position in the 2020 draft was WR. Gute could have packaged a one, two, and four and got Jefferson (and still got Dillon in the third). Or stayed put and taken Tee Higgens or Sutton. Move down, get Clayton. But the draft busts go deep. 12 busts in rounds two and three since Adams, and of them all the only real great pick (not including this year) was Jenkins. It's really bad. I give TT a pass when he should have been retired. And that's not the whole: it's just this crazy upside down, none prioritized drafting. And I can't give credit for a good draft this year because it was the deepest draft in twenty years and he just wasted capital and did not get a starting offensive line man.

[NewsBruin]

I really wanted to pick #12, but he's just one dude, and the front office should have been prepared that a few losses would turn him into a moody teenager.

[call_me_ishmael]

All of the above. Matty is running a boring ass offense. I'm not sure who Joe is. Gooter done fucked up with some of these extensions, although I disagree that Bak extension looked bad at the time. I dunno what the alternative was to paying Rodgers. Offense looks different if there #1 receiver (the kid they drafted) is healthy. You gotta pay Jaire, but he's gotta play better. Maybe not #1 overall CB money coming off of season ending injury. Is he the same guy?

I'd like to see them get a better DC next off-season. Chicago old guy.

I think promoting the OL coach was to keep him obviously, but maybe that wasn't the right move for the team and he should focus more on the OL instead of offense as a whole.

[Fosco33]

2 losses - one by 2 and a shitty overturned TD - the other by 5 in a weird London game against a Giants team that isn’t all that bad.

Chill.

We’ll make the playoffs and maybe a run. WRs need to get healthy and maybe we go find one in FA. Offensive Line - same.

I do agree play calling on short yardage is suspect. And we aren’t in sync.

[bobblehead]

Health of the OLine. /thread

[bobblehead]

I just posted on Gute's failure in another thread. I forgot to mention he extended Bakh too early. At the time, I was very concerned about Bakh's health.


Why in God's name were you concerned about Baks health when he had just turned 29 and missed a total of 6 games in 10+ years dating back to college?? Are you just that prescient?? I think you were either dumb lucky or you are rewriting history just a bit.

To top it off they didn't "extend" him until halfway through the final year of his deal. If they had forced him to wait til the season was over and he DIDN'T get hurt they would have had to compete with 31 other teams.

[bobblehead]

As for all the people who are still crying about Jordan Love I would point out for the 2nd time that the Aaron Rodgers we are watching RIGHT NOW looks very similar to the guy who played the 2-3 seasons immediately PRECEDING the Love pick.

So if you think Rodgers isn't playing well and is finished, but you also claim the Love pick was the worst mistake in the history of mistakes then you need to think about the logic.

[Jaire]

Why in God's name were you concerned about Baks health when he had just turned 29 and missed a total of 6 games in 10+ years dating back to college?? Are you just that prescient?? I think you were either dumb lucky or you are rewriting history just a bit.

To top it off they didn't "extend" him until halfway through the final year of his deal. If they had forced him to wait til the season was over and he DIDN'T get hurt they would have had to compete with 31 other teams.

You tag him or get a deal done post season. He was 30 at game three of his new contract; he's a bit undersized; and I was looking at ALL the tackles we had in GB and what year they started breaking down as starters. Also how we dealt with other OL, and when we let them go: and what happened immediately after. Gotta wait on that one. It ain't even hard to figure.

As to 2020, that draft was a joke. Use a two to move up and get Jefferson, or stay and grab Tee Higgins. You don't draft a starting RT or a WR for seven years but waste a draft on a QB, #3RB, and an HB (1,2,3). joke. GB has 12 duds as their 2&3 picks since Adams; only great pick is Jenkins. Not only don't you have a draft philsophy, you can't evaluate talent. And your replaying fake history about the back to back MVP, as if this complete mess of an offense is his fault. Gute decided to get cute again and draft an ILB instead of get a legit starting RT: that's five years he's known that he needs to fill that. absurd.

[Bretsky]

As for all the people who are still crying about Jordan Love I would point out for the 2nd time that the Aaron Rodgers we are watching RIGHT NOW looks very similar to the guy who played the 2-3 seasons immediately PRECEDING the Love pick.

So if you think Rodgers isn't playing well and is finished, but you also claim the Love pick was the worst mistake in the history of mistakes then you need to think about the logic.


What is the common theme for that bad year of AROD, and this....bad year for AROD ?

[Bretsky]

You tag him or get a deal done post season. He was 30 at game three of his new contract; he's a bit undersized; and I was looking at ALL the tackles we had in GB and what year they started breaking down as starters. Also how we dealt with other OL, and when we let them go: and what happened immediately after. Gotta wait on that one. It ain't even hard to figure.

As to 2020, that draft was a joke. Use a two to move up and get Jefferson, or stay and grab Tee Higgins. You don't draft a starting RT or a WR for seven years but waste a draft on a QB, #3RB, and an HB (1,2,3). joke. GB has 12 duds as their 2&3 picks since Adams; only great pick is Jenkins. Not only don't you have a draft philsophy, you can't evaluate talent. And your replaying fake history about the back to back MVP, as if this complete mess of an offense is his fault. Gute decided to get cute again and draft an ILB instead of get a legit starting RT: that's five years he's known that he needs to fill that. absurd.



A packer media head (I think it was actually Tausch) noted that one of the view TT often embraced was only giving an OL one big extension. I agree you tag him. i was happy we kept the player but I didn't like the fiscals of that deal.

[texaspackerbacker]

I haven't disagreed with some of what Gutekunst has done, but his teams have been up around 13 wins for several seasons, and he did hire LaFleur. I don't think he gets the primary blame.

Rodgers gets blame in proportion to the credit he gets for the previous great seasons - as well as for whatever bounceback we have this year. He's been a little bit worse, but even with that, he's been way above average as NFL QBs go. The ingrates pissing on Rodgers are gonna really get a wake up when at some point, we no longer have him and the team is really in the toilet - hopefully many years from now.

LaFleur may be hitting a new floor, but that floor is higher than just about any other coach's ceiling.

Barry has all the talent any DC could ever hope to have. Yet his teams have been mediocre or worse. And his ability to adjust in-game has been horrible. He gets my vote for primary blame.

[beveaux1]

I haven't disagreed with some of what Gutekunst has done, but his teams have been up around 13 wins for several seasons, and he did hire LaFleur. I don't think he gets the primary blame.

Rodgers gets blame in proportion to the credit he gets for the previous great seasons - as well as for whatever bounceback we have this year. He's been a little bit worse, but even with that, he's been way above average as NFL QBs go. The ingrates pissing on Rodgers are gonna really get a wake up when at some point, we no longer have him and the team is really in the toilet - hopefully many years from now.

LaFleur may be hitting a new floor, but that floor is higher than just about any other coach's ceiling.

Barry has all the talent any DC could ever hope to have. Yet his teams have been mediocre or worse. And his ability to adjust in-game has been horrible. He gets my vote for primary blame.

Gute didn't hire LaFleur, Murphy did.

[Sparkey]

The same offensive disfunction that was showing up in 2017 and 2018 is the same as what is going on now. The oline has changed, the rb's have changed and receivers have changed and the coaches have changed. What hasn't changed ? Yup, the QB!

[King Friday]

I voted Gute. This all started with his incompetent decision to draft Love, which appears at this point to be a complete dud. So he didn’t make the roster any better with a first round pick…and started a domino effect of actions to appease Rodgers. Gute has also had some nice draft picks, but the Love pick was a huge error from the standpoint that it wasn’t necessary with a QB who was still likely to play at a high level for at least 3 more years.

[King Friday]

As for all the people who are still crying about Jordan Love I would point out for the 2nd time that the Aaron Rodgers we are watching RIGHT NOW looks very similar to the guy who played the 2-3 seasons immediately PRECEDING the Love pick.

So if you think Rodgers isn't playing well and is finished, but you also claim the Love pick was the worst mistake in the history of mistakes then you need to think about the logic.

Rodgers clearly wasn’t finished 3 years ago. He’s probably not finished now, but he needs a better supporting cast.

If your argument is that the only way a team can properly motivate a QB is to reach on a draft pick, you are the only who needs to think about the logic. Gute could have and should have done better.

[Freak Out]

The buck stops with Gute…or Murph?

[bobblehead]

You tag him or get a deal done post season. He was 30 at game three of his new contract; he's a bit undersized; and I was looking at ALL the tackles we had in GB and what year they started breaking down as starters. Also how we dealt with other OL, and when we let them go: and what happened immediately after. Gotta wait on that one. It ain't even hard to figure.

As to 2020, that draft was a joke. Use a two to move up and get Jefferson, or stay and grab Tee Higgins. You don't draft a starting RT or a WR for seven years but waste a draft on a QB, #3RB, and an HB (1,2,3). joke. GB has 12 duds as their 2&3 picks since Adams; only great pick is Jenkins. Not only don't you have a draft philsophy, you can't evaluate talent. And your replaying fake history about the back to back MVP, as if this complete mess of an offense is his fault. Gute decided to get cute again and draft an ILB instead of get a legit starting RT: that's five years he's known that he needs to fill that. absurd.

Born September 30 1991. Signed extension November 15th 2020. That would be 6 weeks after his birthday. And I suck at the birthday age thing, but doesn't that mean he had JUST turned 29? Big men age a bit different than the smaller speed oriented guys. WR hit a wall at 32 based on history. Its accepted that the best OL hit that wall a year or 2 later. You could tag him. That generally pisses a guy off though and you end up with an Adams situation. Or Leveon Bell. Or Khalil Mack.

There was nothing wrong with locking him up when they did. My real gripe was restructuring base to bonus making sure we couldn't cut bait anytime soon.

I'll ask this. How often have you seen guys actually PLAY on the tag. Its very rare. It usually ends up with a contract like he signed or a trade.

[Bretsky]

In a game obviously becoming dominated by the passing game, how many years did it take GB to find another good WR in the draft after the year Devante Adams was drafted ?

FUNNY that J Sternberger tweeted out after the Redskins game that Green Bay should have drafted Scary Terry instead of him in round 3

[Joemailman]

Gute didn't hire LaFleur, Murphy did.

Gute had a hand in it. In fact, it was at Gute's insistence that LaFleur was added to the list of candidates. It was ultimately Murphy's decision, but it's not like he made it alone.

[Bretsky]

Aaron turned SHARON again on his weekly show with his dickwad tool Patty today

Anybody hear the audio info from ESPN ? He noted they had mental errrors on 20 percent of the plays and noted maybe it's time to play those players less and give the opportunities to others who aren't seeing the field much. ESPN showed some of his really bad throws; needless to say he took no acountabilty for anything at all.

He's not a leader.

Sharon played Green Bay better than anybody I've ever seen. He manipulated the front office and ended up getting the type of contract that was only good for himself. And his antics imo definitely had an impact of Devante Adams view about staying in GB completely flippipng in less than a year when Gutebag didn't close the deal the year before Adams jumped ship.

[Joemailman]

Rodgers is right that there are too many mental mistakes and there needs to be more accountability. But that is a conversation he should be having in LaFleur's office, not on Pat McAfee's show.

[NewsBruin]

If all of the blockers were 100% healthy clones of Tauscher and Bahktiari, and all the receivers were clones of Davante who only had eyes for Aaron, and all the running backs were like Aaron Jones and took full responsibility for keeping a positive lockerroom, and all the plays were simple with the option to sandlot it whenever Aaron wants to, and the front office asks him how much frothed milk he wants in his tea, and none of the lying national media questioned him about statements he made when they have their mics pointed at him, and all the Division I schools had recruited him, and every team had a battle Royale to draft him with the #1 pick, and all the women would just let him do his thing and stop asking all those relationship questions like "Where do you want to go for dinner?" and "Are we dating?", then maybe he wouldn't be forced to go on his chucklebro's livestream show to set the record straight.

[Sparkey]

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2022/10/25/23422735/aaron-rodgers-green-bay-packers-week-8-2022-breakdown

[MadtownPacker]

For want of a good quarterback rating a game was lost. For want of a good game a season was lost. For want of a good season a team was lost. For want of a good team a fanbase was lost.

https://img1.ak.crunchyroll.com/i/spire1/c7d705d018a576500138844d862d37dd1629385285_main.jp g

While I voted Gute I want to change it to Murphy. Shit rolls down hill which means it must have started at the top.

[texaspackerbacker]

Rodgers is right that there are too many mental mistakes and there needs to be more accountability. But that is a conversation he should be having in LaFleur's office, not on Pat McAfee's show.

Very True.

If he did that, though, all those dumbass haters blaming him that need to be contradicted would not have their shit contradicted. Rodgers hasn't been as great as he's been in the past or still should be, but it's got to be frustrating to have so many dropped passes, wrong routes, etc. and then people blame him.

I certainly don't blame him for speaking directly on McAfee rather than through the bastards of the fake news media who have shitted all over him for years.

[Jaire]

For want of a good quarterback rating a game was lost. For want of a good game a season was lost. For want of a good season a team was lost. For want of a good team a fanbase was lost.

https://img1.ak.crunchyroll.com/i/spire1/c7d705d018a576500138844d862d37dd1629385285_main.jp g

While I voted Gute I want to change it to Murphy. Shit rolls down hill which means it must have started at the top.

You had me do a double take. I didn't remember a Murphy choice.

[bobblehead]

Aaron turned SHARON again on his weekly show with his dickwad tool Patty today

Anybody hear the audio info from ESPN ? He noted they had mental errrors on 20 percent of the plays and noted maybe it's time to play those players less and give the opportunities to others who aren't seeing the field much. ESPN showed some of his really bad throws; needless to say he took no acountabilty for anything at all.

He's not a leader.

Sharon played Green Bay better than anybody I've ever seen. He manipulated the front office and ended up getting the type of contract that was only good for himself. And his antics imo definitely had an impact of Devante Adams view about staying in GB completely flippipng in less than a year when Gutebag didn't close the deal the year before Adams jumped ship.

To point about owning up, he admitted that he made some bad plays. He also made a few bad "reads" because the guy who was open had already dropped passes. I don't excuse that....gotta throw to the open guy. If they keep dropping passes the coaches will eventually bench them.

To Sharon playing GB...most fans were on his side. I don't think there were 2 posters besides me that said "trade him now"

[bobblehead]

If all of the blockers were 100% healthy clones of Tauscher and Bahktiari, and all the receivers were clones of Davante who only had eyes for Aaron, and all the running backs were like Aaron Jones and took full responsibility for keeping a positive lockerroom, and all the plays were simple with the option to sandlot it whenever Aaron wants to, and the front office asks him how much frothed milk he wants in his tea, and none of the lying national media questioned him about statements he made when they have their mics pointed at him, and all the Division I schools had recruited him, and every team had a battle Royale to draft him with the #1 pick, and all the women would just let him do his thing and stop asking all those relationship questions like "Where do you want to go for dinner?" and "Are we dating?", then maybe he wouldn't be forced to go on his chucklebro's livestream show to set the record straight.

Now thats some funny shit. However, every fan on this forum was even MORE butthurt about drafting Love than Rodgers was. He was just in a position to pull a dickhead move over it.

[MadtownPacker]

You had me do a double take. I didn't remember a Murphy choice.
I did word it like that! He needs to be an option on the pole since he is in charge of all these fuckheads.

[bobblehead]

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2022/10/25/23422735/aaron-rodgers-green-bay-packers-week-8-2022-breakdown

Favre tried that once. TT was destroyed by fans and the media over it. Its only because Rodgers became Rodgers that TT survived it. So Rodgers didn't hold anyone hostage. The team made a decision. One the fans largely agreed with at the time. They sold out to keep Rodgers happy. Personally I would have let him sit and not restructured. I think at the time I said that my only compromise would have been to agree to trade Love and tack on 2 years at $25 million on the back end of his existing contract if he felt a committment was needed. I would not have given him the farm and I wouldn't have traded or Cobb.

At a minimum 80% of the posters here sided with him at the time.

[MadtownPacker]

To point about owning up, he admitted that he made some bad plays. He also made a few bad "reads" because the guy who was open had already dropped passes. I don't excuse that....gotta throw to the open guy. If they keep dropping passes the coaches will eventually bench them.

To Sharon playing GB...most fans were on his side. I don't think there were 2 posters besides me that said "trade him now"Mofo I drove up and you jumped on that wagon to join me. Shit needed to happen 2 years ago.

[bobblehead]

Mofo I drove up and you jumped on that wagon to join me. Shit needed to happen 2 years ago.

I'll give you full credit. But you hate Erin so your view of it all is jaded. I agree with you on a lot. I don't think either of us needs to be lead to water. Hell I doubt either of us is capable of being lead anywhere.

[MadtownPacker]

I'll give you full credit. But you hate Erin so your view of it all is jaded. I agree with you on a lot. I don't think either of us needs to be lead to water. Hell I doubt either of us is capable of being lead anywhere.
I despise him for being a shitty person. Nothing to do with his football player side, have always said he is an incredible passer. I have also always said he was a poor leader and that was based on my personal encounter with him and then all the video evidence he has shown through the years. Basically the dude made me think even worse of him somehow.

But let’s not lose sight of the main message of your post and you are right both of us are fucking great! :lol:

[Fosco33]

MTP - how can you hate on a guy that speaks his mind? Does boomers and ayahuasca while winning back-back MVPs? He was dead right on a bunch of the political shit too (even though no one should pay attention to athletes non fb points of view).

I used to hate his demeanor in games but he’s been surprisingly less so the last 2-3 years.

I’d be more annoyed if he just gave canned answers and looked mellow with people playing like ass around him.

[Jaire]

If all of the blockers were 100% healthy clones of Tauscher and Bahktiari, and all the receivers were clones of Davante who only had eyes for Aaron, and all the running backs were like Aaron Jones and took full responsibility for keeping a positive lockerroom, and all the plays were simple with the option to sandlot it whenever Aaron wants to, and the front office asks him how much frothed milk he wants in his tea, and none of the lying national media questioned him about statements he made when they have their mics pointed at him, and all the Division I schools had recruited him, and every team had a battle Royale to draft him with the #1 pick, and all the women would just let him do his thing and stop asking all those relationship questions like "Where do you want to go for dinner?" and "Are we dating?", then maybe he wouldn't be forced to go on his chucklebro's livestream show to set the record straight.

Most of Aaron's content there is solid, and entertaining. Both AR and chucklbro are a tad narcissisitic but that's also true of ninety percent of my graduating class. Just the times we're in.

This FO royallly screwed up the 2020 draft. If they got him some receiver help then, maybe we win won or two more SB's. These recent losses I have to put on Gute who has been hell bent not to get AR some legit talent. And I just rewatched two of Peyton's Superbowls: I've never seen AR play as horrible a play off game as Payton did both in Indy and Denver. I was was actually embarassed for him. Also, the game this year is so CRAP compared to how it used to be played. I'm really appreciating Wahle's new podcast (esp his last).

Proof of said perennial screw up: they are about to give up multiple picks for Moore. Glad Gute is seeing some light finally.

[ThunderDan]

I put the blame squarely on Murphy.

He fucked up the end of the TT era by letting him stay to long. I also think the breaking up of responsibilities between Gute and Ball is a huge mistake. One of those two needs to have total authority to run the club.

Murphy needs to be fired by the Board and someone needs to come in and put things back the way they were when Wolfe and TT were the GMs.

[ThunderDan]

MTP - how can you hate on a guy that speaks his mind? Does boomers and ayahuasca while winning back-back MVPs? He was dead right on a bunch of the political shit too (even though no one should pay attention to athletes non fb points of view).

I used to hate his demeanor in games but he’s been surprisingly less so the last 2-3 years.

I’d be more annoyed if he just gave canned answers and looked mellow with people playing like ass around him.

I dislike him because he is speaking his mind in all the wrong places.

I own my own CPA firm and I don't go running to the media or my clients to tell them that an employee fucked something up. You go to them personally and try to help them correct their mistakes and not do what they did again. If they still don't change, you fire them but thank them for their time with the organization.

LaFleur knows that there are mental mistakes right now. Gute knows every time someone drops the ball or runs the wrong route that he needs to address the WR position.

ARod running his mouth doesn't help anything.

[Fosco33]

Lots of people here are putting the blame for poor play on ARod personally and calling for Love.

He’s saying two things - one, 1) we have to play within our personnel and talent, 2) far too many mistakes.

Dudes a perfectionist. And he’s now learned that you just control your own narrative.

And he’s not the leader of the GBP. He’s key personnel. He’d be your top CPA and may influence recruiting. But he doesn’t get to hire/fire anyone.

[Jaire]

Lots of people here are putting the blame for poor play on ARod personally and calling for Love.

He’s saying two things - one, 1) we have to play within our personnel and talent, 2) far too many mistakes.

Dudes a perfectionist. And he’s now learned that you just control your own narrative.

And he’s not the leader of the GBP. He’s key personnel. He’d be your top CPA and may influence recruiting. But he doesn’t get to hire/fire anyone.

Spot on.

Man, it's got to be so frustrating for AR; he's really just trying to make the best of lemons. That's all he can do, and I think he's come a long way the past few years tbh. He's getting older and his play has declined a bit, but if he had half the pieces Peyton was given in Denver, no one would be talking smack about ARod. No one's perfect (and plenty I disagree with ARod on), but dude is a totally unique cat in the history of football. He's earned my respect. ..... And obviously many others' as well; that chat that BB gave him after the NE game wasn't just a photo-op: it was straight up the GOAT paying his homage to a player he truly appreciates and respects.

[Fritz]

I'm surprised The Flower isn't getting more hate. You all seem to be giving him a pass.

Gutes did what he had to do to keep Rodgers, which a few of you pointed out is what most fans wanted (go back and check my posts; I wanted him traded but that might've been a dumb move too, who knows?). People here also seem to be forgetting that Davante Adams wanted o-u-t of Green Bay - he wanted to go play back home. So Gutes got what he could - it was a good trade in terms of compensation.

Guter also loaded up the defense - you can't say they lack talent. The talent is there. Sure, they could use another all-pro lineman, but who couldn't and maybe Wyatt will develop as the season goes on.

Gutes went all-in and resigned guys we didn't think they could afford to keep - Devondre Campbell, Rasul Douglass. He gave Jaire Alexander a contract to keep him.

On offense, the majority of us were slobbering over the depth of the offensive line - so many good ones we thought we'd lose a really good developmental guy!

Pretty much everybody here had a preseason boner for Doubs and especially Christian "Hamstring" Watson.

He pulled a TT and signed a wiley vet WR to a reasonable contract to see if he could pitch in. He also brought Cobb back to make Rodgers happy.

But the team is not just working out the kinks on offense - shit is just flat-out wrong.

But who hired that wizard Joe Barely to work with this deeply talented defense and make it a dominant one? I thought they'd carry the offense for the first part of the season but they're not playing well, and don't give me that shit that they're too tired because they're on the field too much. Are they a really good defense, or not? No, they are not.

And if Rodgers is getting out of control - making decisions on where the ball is going pre-snap and just getting rid of it - well, where's the head coach getting Rodgers back on track? We bitched about Sherman losing control of Favre, we bitched about McCarthy losing control of Rodgers, and so why aren't we bitching about The Flower not doing his job?

And when our best player was not getting enough touches a few weeks in a row, where was the head coach on that?

What the hell. It's LeFleur's ship, and it's listing.

[bobblehead]

MTP - how can you hate on a guy that speaks his mind? Does boomers and ayahuasca while winning back-back MVPs? He was dead right on a bunch of the political shit too (even though no one should pay attention to athletes non fb points of view).

I used to hate his demeanor in games but he’s been surprisingly less so the last 2-3 years.

I’d be more annoyed if he just gave canned answers and looked mellow with people playing like ass around him.

I, like everyone, give athletes the same weight on their political opinions as I do anyone else. If they agree with me, they are very smart. If they differ, they are very stupid. I do not think I am unique in this regard.

[bobblehead]

I put the blame squarely on Murphy.

He fucked up the end of the TT era by letting him stay to long. I also think the breaking up of responsibilities between Gute and Ball is a huge mistake. One of those two needs to have total authority to run the club.

Murphy needs to be fired by the Board and someone needs to come in and put things back the way they were when Wolfe and TT were the GMs.

I think we owed TT some loyalty. To be honest it wouldn't shock me if Gutes was in charge of the last couple drafts and basically was the GM before TT stepped down. Remember Gutes turned down another GM offer so there was definitely some behind the scenes we weren't privy to.

Just curious, and I won't go back and look, but you can answer. At the time, did we "owe" it to fat mike to let him finish the season? Did we "owe" anything to Favre when he "unretired". I guess I'm wondering if you are consistent in how guys near the end should be handled. Personally I can be a pretty cold bastard with these kind of things. TT should have been sent off earlier (and I think he was internally). TT understood the deal. He often said "its a young mans game" when not giving out that 3rd contract.

For my taste I loved TT before he lost it. He seemed very even keeled and immune to outside pressures and believed in his methods to his very core.

[Bretsky]

I'm surprised The Flower isn't getting more hate. You all seem to be giving him a pass.

Gutes did what he had to do to keep Rodgers, which a few of you pointed out is what most fans wanted (go back and check my posts; I wanted him traded but that might've been a dumb move too, who knows?). People here also seem to be forgetting that Davante Adams wanted o-u-t of Green Bay - he wanted to go play back home. So Gutes got what he could - it was a good trade in terms of compensation.

Guter also loaded up the defense - you can't say they lack talent. The talent is there. Sure, they could use another all-pro lineman, but who couldn't and maybe Wyatt will develop as the season goes on.

Gutes went all-in and resigned guys we didn't think they could afford to keep - Devondre Campbell, Rasul Douglass. He gave Jaire Alexander a contract to keep him.

On offense, the majority of us were slobbering over the depth of the offensive line - so many good ones we thought we'd lose a really good developmental guy!

Pretty much everybody here had a preseason boner for Doubs and especially Christian "Hamstring" Watson.

He pulled a TT and signed a wiley vet WR to a reasonable contract to see if he could pitch in. He also brought Cobb back to make Rodgers happy.

But the team is not just working out the kinks on offense - shit is just flat-out wrong.

But who hired that wizard Joe Barely to work with this deeply talented defense and make it a dominant one? I thought they'd carry the offense for the first part of the season but they're not playing well, and don't give me that shit that they're too tired because they're on the field too much. Are they a really good defense, or not? No, they are not.

And if Rodgers is getting out of control - making decisions on where the ball is going pre-snap and just getting rid of it - well, where's the head coach getting Rodgers back on track? We bitched about Sherman losing control of Favre, we bitched about McCarthy losing control of Rodgers, and so why aren't we bitching about The Flower not doing his job?

And when our best player was not getting enough touches a few weeks in a row, where was the head coach on that?

What the hell. It's LeFleur's ship, and it's listing.



As Chris Carter used to say, COME ON MAN

Gutebag has ignored, or failing to successfully address our gaping hole of talent at WR since Devante Adams was drafted. And now he's finally exposed

Gutebag failed to resign Devante Adams the year before all this shit happened. When Adams left that was when he made the captain obvious move of securing the other guys

THE TALE OF TWO TEAMS LOSING THEIR ELITE WIDE RECEIVER----and were their talent levels really that different besides both having elite QB's ?

KC vs GB

How did each team, the GM's and the Head Coaches react ?

KC went out and got MVS and traded for JUJU and drafted a WR in round two in Sky Moore. GB signed some of their own to apparently create an elite Defense. And then he drafted defense with his first two round picks (one performing a little and one not at all so far), and then in an act of desperation, IMO he trade "BOTH" of our second round picks for a guy with upside who most considered needing development. Add a 4th and 7th, who appear positive, but dam....I know......too soon to judge, but the early comparison is ugly.

And it's very fair for you to argue Reid is an elite coach, and MLF and Joe Barry have really fallen short. A good argument could be made that the coaching difference is huge.

But my bias is with Gutebag

[bobblehead]

As Chris Carter used to say, COME ON MAN

Gutebag has ignored, or failing to successfully address our gaping hole of talent at WR since Devante Adams was drafted. And now he's finally exposed

Gutebag failed to resign Devante Adams the year before all this shit happened. When Adams left that was when he made the captain obvious move of securing the other guys

THE TALE OF TWO TEAMS LOSING THEIR ELITE WIDE RECEIVER----and were their talent levels really that different besides both having elite QB's ?

KC vs GB

How did each team, the GM's and the Head Coaches react ?

KC went out and got MVS and traded for JUJU and drafted a WR in round two in Sky Moore. GB signed some of their own to apparently create an elite Defense. And then he drafted defense with his first two round picks (one performing a little and one not at all so far), and then in an act of desperation, IMO he trade "BOTH" of our second round picks for a guy with upside who most considered needing development. Add a 4th and 7th, who appear positive, but dam....I know......too soon to judge, but the early comparison is ugly.

And it's very fair for you to argue Reid is an elite coach, and MLF and Joe Barry have really fallen short. A good argument could be made that the coaching difference is huge.

But my bias is with Gutebag

I would like to revisit history just a bit. A couple years ago everyone on this board assured me that KC had this great WR who was much better than MVS name Sammy Watkins.

As for this years draft the chiefs ALSO had 2 firsts and took 2 defensive players and didn't draft a WR until AFTER we did. And their guy is healthy and ours isn't. Thats called luck.

JuJu, I think was an FA, and one not too many teams were desiring after his fall off the last 2 years. He had played 12 games in 2 years. We are in cap hell. That is what fans wanted the entire TT era. A GM who would spend until we couldn't spend anymore. Plus I am pretty sure they were counting on Adams staying. I know fans weren't aware he was simply done in GB until well after all the FA WR were signed.

None of this means mistakes weren't made. I'm simply pointing out that things are never as black and white as in a fans mind.

[Fosco33]

Almost everyone here hated adams for the droppsies. I think our rooks will be awesome by year 4.

[ThunderDan]

I think we owed TT some loyalty. To be honest it wouldn't shock me if Gutes was in charge of the last couple drafts and basically was the GM before TT stepped down. Remember Gutes turned down another GM offer so there was definitely some behind the scenes we weren't privy to.

Just curious, and I won't go back and look, but you can answer. At the time, did we "owe" it to fat mike to let him finish the season? Did we "owe" anything to Favre when he "unretired". I guess I'm wondering if you are consistent in how guys near the end should be handled. Personally I can be a pretty cold bastard with these kind of things. TT should have been sent off earlier (and I think he was internally). TT understood the deal. He often said "its a young mans game" when not giving out that 3rd contract.

For my taste I loved TT before he lost it. He seemed very even keeled and immune to outside pressures and believed in his methods to his very core.

I thought we owed TT some loyalty also but the last few years were brutal in the watching TT interact with people. I would have gotten rid of him a year or two before the Packers did.

I was surprised that we got rid of MM during the season. I would have waited until the end of the season unless there was someone on staff that I thought could be the next head coach. I was ready to get rid of him for a couple of years. At the beginning, he really had a brilliant offensive mind. He got lazy and stale by the end.

[ThunderDan]

Just so we have the facts. Here are the 1st half defensive numbers.

Week 1 - 17 pts 257 yards
Week 2 - 7 pts 74 yards
Week 3 - 3 pts 97 yards
Week 4 - 10 pts (pick 6 by Rodgers) 121 yards
Week 5 - 10 pts 130 yards
Week 6 - 3 pts 65 yards
Week 7 - 10 pts 141 yards

Average - 8.58 pts 126.4 yards

I would take that every week all year long. 1st half defense hasn't been our problem this year.

[ThunderDan]

Had the wrong MN yards initially as 398.

[Fritz]

Just so we have the facts. Here are the 1st half defensive numbers.

Week 1 - 17 pts 257 yards
Week 2 - 7 pts 74 yards
Week 3 - 3 pts 97 yards
Week 4 - 10 pts (pick 6 by Rodgers) 121 yards
Week 5 - 10 pts 130 yards
Week 6 - 3 pts 65 yards
Week 7 - 10 pts 141 yards

Average - 8.58 pts 126.4 yards

I would take that every week all year long. 1st half defense hasn't been our problem this year.

If only football games were only two quarters long - we'd have a great defense!

But your numbers also ignore the number of games in which the defense got the team into a hole by allowing a score on the first drive.

[Jaire]

Man,

I agree with everyone on this page. A lot of good points.

So, to put it together:

1) Gute did a lot of good things, but in the end it doesn't make up for the boneheaded complete waste of a draft in 2020. I really really think it cost us one or two rings already. And IT HURTS RIGHT NOW.

2) MLF cost us that game against the Bucs as well. He should have called a time out: that was imo the ONE truly boneheaded play of the game. The field goal at the end looked worse than it was: even the analytics had it close, and the circumstances said probably don't go for 6 and 2, right there. Still no risk it, no biscuit. If you go for it, literally no one says "you should have kicked." A bit too hesitant, which MLF is: little too much brake, not enough gas. But if you called the time out first half, no need to kick a field goal on 4th and goal (and there were a number of small mistakes throughout: had to be perfect to beat TB). There weren't a lot of horrible plays that game. The line was banged up and outmatched. The whole team was outmatched and they still almost pulled the upset: and should have. A couple players really played amazing: Jaire, MVS, Lazard and AR. A couple players had atypical games including Adams. But it was coaches. Which brings us to the present coaching shortcomings. I think MLF makes a very good OC; not sure about HC. He keeps saying he needs to fix his mistakes and it's sounding old. This is a SB caliber team (primary because of AR): but they have had more talent than many prior years except at Wide Out, I would say. SO.......we'll see. I haven't watched enough, but a few things Barry has done during the game are real head scratchers. MLF's man.

[Jaire]

Here's the thing, and I think this is the problem.

With AR, you don't need an offensive coordinator. He's like Manning in that regard. Just give him the talent, coach the technique, and AR can still dissect anyone. I don't think Gute gets this. That's the frustration. If he had Brady's talent (albeit that oline is struggling), he'd put on a show. Not that I'm down on our guys. We just need a couple of pieces -- even one -- he can play with. He needs a better line too. And hopefully they get him some help before next year (when the rookies will get better). Otherwise he may not be back especially if he gets knocked out. At least during the regular season in 2020 he had all day and was hardly touched. You just can't let your franchise get beat up the way AR is. not his fault.

He still has it. After he threw that pick six, he was pretty pissed and turned it on and brought that game back. It's kinda like when someone belt's him in a game. Except once, that didn't go too well for the oppostiion.

[Jaire]

Watching this Bills game. It's very clear Gute is the problem. Barry is runner up

[Bretsky]

Watching this Bills game. It's very clear Gute is the problem. Barry is runner up


I would still vote for Gute as I did.

And I'd say Barry is second as well.

[Bretsky]

PACKER POST GAME..suggesting GB going out and getting Chase Claypool....lol

[texaspackerbacker]

After tonight's game, I'm back to thinking we don't need to trade for a WR - unless maybe we can get somebody good for really cheap, and that ain't likely.

Doubs, Toure, with Watson and Lazard coming back, and Cobb in a few weeks, that's good enough to win - or would be if the O Line was any good and the D didn't give away the game.

[th87]

As for all the people who are still crying about Jordan Love I would point out for the 2nd time that the Aaron Rodgers we are watching RIGHT NOW looks very similar to the guy who played the 2-3 seasons immediately PRECEDING the Love pick.

So if you think Rodgers isn't playing well and is finished, but you also claim the Love pick was the worst mistake in the history of mistakes then you need to think about the logic.

Um, he had just led us to the NFCCG. Even in his "decline", he was a good enough QB to win with. Adding a WR would've helped even further.

If they had to go with Love, then they should've gone with a rebuild right then and there and traded Rodgers. The timeline for drafting Love made no sense. If Rodgers stayed and played two more years, you'd only have two years of Love left on his rookie contract, which completely negates the cap advantage of a low-cost QB (assuming he was good).

Learning for two years behind a HOF QB isn't a thing. Complete myth. Whether he'll be good is up to him and the coaches.

Gute tried to have it both ways and did both sub-optimally. This had cascading effects like Rodgers' decision to spitefully "get his" at the expense of the team.

It was a complete boner of a decision. And it's not like Love was a cant-miss opportunity that was worth the risk.

So Gute is to blame.

[th87]

Most of Aaron's content there is solid, and entertaining. Both AR and chucklbro are a tad narcissisitic but that's also true of ninety percent of my graduating class. Just the times we're in.

This FO royallly screwed up the 2020 draft. If they got him some receiver help then, maybe we win won or two more SB's. These recent losses I have to put on Gute who has been hell bent not to get AR some legit talent. And I just rewatched two of Peyton's Superbowls: I've never seen AR play as horrible a play off game as Payton did both in Indy and Denver. I was was actually embarassed for him. Also, the game this year is so CRAP compared to how it used to be played. I'm really appreciating Wahle's new podcast (esp his last).

Proof of said perennial screw up: they are about to give up multiple picks for Moore. Glad Gute is seeing some light finally.

This. The 2020 draft was a complete catastrophe, which was predicted by many as it happened, and is now even more evident as time passes.

Picking Love was nonsensical from:
- a team need standpoint
- a team chemistry standpoint
- a salary cap standpoint (by wasting Love's rookie contract)
- a player development standpoint (QBs improving via a long apprenticeship is not necessary)

CEOs making this type of blunder get fired. And nothing else he's done is really redeemable. Alexander, Jenkins (who knows now), and Gary are his best picks. That's nice, but we'd probably unearth the same talent level if we "auto-drafted" out of a magazine those years due to the high picks we had.

[texaspackerbacker]

I agree with pretty much all of this last post except for the conclusion that Gutekunst is "to blame" and deserves to get fired. 13 or 14 wins the past several seasons says otherwise.

I still say the greatest blame for the bad start this year - the original poll question - is Barry. His mediocre D performance despite having a shitload of talent and high picks is inexcusable. With better D, we'd be in good shape despite the shoddy O Line performance and the inexperienced if not downright lame WRs. The teams doing well on D it seems are the ones with young innovative D Coordinators who can adjust to the way offenses have changed over time. Barry has not done well that way.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Actually, it is quite simple, teams succeed or fail based on quality of coaches and the players, with a little luck thrown in here and there. Our current team is mediocre cause the overall quality of coaches and players is mediocre. We have had a great run, it has been exciting. Time to rebuild, which we should have started last year..

[call_me_ishmael]

Bills are the best team in the league and the Pack outplayed them in the second half. There edit: fuck this forum I typed up a long post and it’s gone now.

[texaspackerbacker]

I say again, it's NEVER time to rebuild. You just tune things up on the fly. Fire-saling good players is absolutely a stupid thing to do. Even when that dark day comes that we no longer have Aaron Rodgers, it would be all out stupid to rebuild the way the Panthers, for example, are doing or the way the Steelers or Dolphins or several teams in other sports have done.

CMI, the forum has done that to me a few times too. Sometimes if you backspace, it's still there - you can edit and copy what you wrote. The preventative thing especially if you are editing, is to copy the whole thing just in case.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

[QUOTE=call_me_ishmael;1123499]Bills are the best team in the league and the Pack outplayed them in the second half. There edit: fuck this forum I typed up a long post and it

Where did my post go?

[texaspackerbacker]

hahahaha the system KNOWS you and fucks up accordingly.

[bobblehead]

Um, he had just led us to the NFCCG. Even in his "decline", he was a good enough QB to win with. Adding a WR would've helped even further.

If they had to go with Love, then they should've gone with a rebuild right then and there and traded Rodgers. The timeline for drafting Love made no sense. If Rodgers stayed and played two more years, you'd only have two years of Love left on his rookie contract, which completely negates the cap advantage of a low-cost QB (assuming he was good).

Learning for two years behind a HOF QB isn't a thing. Complete myth. Whether he'll be good is up to him and the coaches.

Gute tried to have it both ways and did both sub-optimally. This had cascading effects like Rodgers' decision to spitefully "get his" at the expense of the team.

It was a complete boner of a decision. And it's not like Love was a cant-miss opportunity that was worth the risk.

So Gute is to blame.

Rodgers had 3 of his only 4 seasons with a QBR under 100 the three seasons prior to picking love. He only had 25 and 26 TD passes the 2 before. People were really down on him....just like right now.

Learning behind a QB absolutely IS a thing. It just doesn't get done much anymore because of the pressure on GMs to win now. I can think of a guy it worked out really well for. And it isn't vital, I'll agree. You can have 2 losing seasons WHILE they learn, but its not advised. Much better for them to learn while the team wins. Quick....name the last rookie or 2nd year QB to win an OWL (hint, there were no rookies and 4 second year guys. All 4 of those guys had great teams around them, and 1 was Kurt warner who learned in arena and Europe)

Finally, no one argues that drafting Love was the right move. I was pissed as hell and still think it was a fuck up. If you believe that ARod would have dutifully played happy and been Mr. Team if we hadn't drafted Love you are nuts. No matter what he would have "got his". Thats the way the NFL is. Every great player gets paid. The only point I actually made (not the 5 you think I made) is that drafting Love, given all the circumstances was understandable. Just as I made the point a couple decades ago at about the exact time in Rodgers career...Under the circumstances drafting Rodgers wasn't the worst move ever.

[bobblehead]

Actually, it is quite simple, teams succeed or fail based on quality of coaches and the players, with a little luck thrown in here and there. Our current team is mediocre cause the overall quality of coaches and players is mediocre. We have had a great run, it has been exciting. Time to rebuild, which we should have started last year..

39 wins in 3 seasons is mediocre.....except its actually THE BEST IN THE LEAGUE.

[bobblehead]

The best post by any rat ever (I wish I recalled who) was a meme of some guy sitting at the computer screaming at his wife:

HOLD ON FOR CHRIST SAKE....SOME GUY ON THE INTERNET IS WRONG!!!!

Epic post. Moments like these when things are going bad and the team isn't playing well and I spend way too much time here I try and remember that meme. Later guys, real life calls.....even if you are all wrong.

[Jaire]

"understandable"

No. I am squarely on the others side. What made it so so much worse was getting a THIRD RB in round two, and Deguara in round 3. Everyone was screaming for McLaurin instead of Jace (who I liked as a pick) in 2019. I think this was BOTH MLF and GUTE. Those picks in 2019 and 2020 screamed MLF, and as GM you just can't abandon your draft philosophy for a rookie HC. That 2020 draft was so egregious and it cost us at least one SB. This boneheaded drafting was given an exclamation point with the Quay pick. ILB round one when you absolutely need a starter on the line with Jenkins and Bakh out to begin the season. Joe Barry got his guy, and you gave the finger to the MVP instead: he needs to be fired ASAP (I mean Joe, not Gute: Gute will be gone soon enough).

I'm also in the "not understandable" category for a very divisive matter. AR is the best. Both the Rams and Niners were ready to trade away everything and their kitchen sink (not to mention Denver) for the so called declining over the hill QB. This is just a big divide in WI, and I really think it's more like 50/50 because a lot of the older folks (like myself) aren't on internet forums: they really really know what's coming and how lucky we are to have AR. It is simply amazing how well he has aged: only Favre and Brady (and Moon come think of it) have held up like this. Of those three, AR still is the most talented. He is incredibly underrated, but it's a divide in the fan base: what it is. Give him his 2020 oline (and we're not far perhaps from that) and a couple more WRs, and he can still have an MVP season again. It's that simple. Gute has NOT done what's needed, NOW FOR FOUR DRAFTS IN A ROW, to help out this offense. It's like AR can always get by with the scraps in the draft: NO HE CAN'T. He's older and needs MORE not LESS help, esp protection. And your only shot at another title has been to help AR, who is the most reliable guy in GB for 15 years, not your new HC, not Joe Barry. You support and bolster the knowns. Gute has dropped the quality of this FO a lot in his tenure. He just doesn't get it.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

39 wins in 3 seasons is mediocre.....except its actually THE BEST IN THE LEAGUE.

True, BUT part of the rebuilding process is always knowing when to trade for the most value..

[Fritz]

FIRE EVERYONE

TRADE EVERYONE

OH MY GOD THIS IS SO HORRIBLE

And if the new regime, from the president to the GM to the head coach to the players, don't win three in a row right off the bat, FIRE THEM TOO.

DON'T STOP FIRING PEOPLE UNTIL I FEEL BETTER.

[beveaux1]

Sometimes your players just don’t play well. They don’t block. They don’t tackle. They drop the ball. They make mistakes. Sometimes they get hurt.

In 2019, everything fell just right and we won 13 games with a 9 or 10 win team. We got all the calls by the refs. This year, maybe we’re a 9 or 10 win that doesn’t get any of the calls so we win 6 or 7. It happens. You don’t fire everyone until it becomes a losing culture.

We’re spoiled. 30 years of elite football. We tried to stretch it a couple more years. May work, may not. Let’s see how it plays out and how our coaches and front office act and react. That’s football.

[bobblehead]

"understandable"

No. I am squarely on the others side. What made it so so much worse was getting a THIRD RB in round two, and Deguara in round 3. Everyone was screaming for McLaurin instead of Jace (who I liked as a pick) in 2019. I think this was BOTH MLF and GUTE. Those picks in 2019 and 2020 screamed MLF, and as GM you just can't abandon your draft philosophy for a rookie HC. That 2020 draft was so egregious and it cost us at least one SB. This boneheaded drafting was given an exclamation point with the Quay pick. ILB round one when you absolutely need a starter on the line with Jenkins and Bakh out to begin the season. Joe Barry got his guy, and you gave the finger to the MVP instead: he needs to be fired ASAP (I mean Joe, not Gute: Gute will be gone soon enough).

I'm also in the "not understandable" category for a very divisive matter. AR is the best. Both the Rams and Niners were ready to trade away everything and their kitchen sink (not to mention Denver) for the so called declining over the hill QB. This is just a big divide in WI, and I really think it's more like 50/50 because a lot of the older folks (like myself) aren't on internet forums: they really really know what's coming and how lucky we are to have AR. It is simply amazing how well he has aged: only Favre and Brady (and Moon come think of it) have held up like this. Of those three, AR still is the most talented. He is incredibly underrated, but it's a divide in the fan base: what it is. Give him his 2020 oline (and we're not far perhaps from that) and a couple more WRs, and he can still have an MVP season again. It's that simple. Gute has NOT done what's needed, NOW FOR FOUR DRAFTS IN A ROW, to help out this offense. It's like AR can always get by with the scraps in the draft: NO HE CAN'T. He's older and needs MORE not LESS help, esp protection. And your only shot at another title has been to help AR, who is the most reliable guy in GB for 15 years, not your new HC, not Joe Barry. You support and bolster the knowns. Gute has dropped the quality of this FO a lot in his tenure. He just doesn't get it.

Just to clarify one point. No one was calling us trying to trade for ARod in 2019. They were calling AFTER he ran the offense and won an MVP award.....and I advocated trading him at the time.

[bobblehead]

True, BUT part of the rebuilding process is always knowing when to trade for the most value..

Except that it isn't. Nearly every poster on this board was backing AR and against trading him. The GM did what most of the fans wanted. I don't recall your position at the time, but if you can bump a post where you advocated trading him, then yes, you were almost as smart as Mad and myself in that regard. I don't think that was your stance then though.

Edit: And I'm talking about preseason 2021....not after he upset you with his vaccine stance.

[texaspackerbacker]

"understandable"

No. I am squarely on the others side. What made it so so much worse was getting a THIRD RB in round two, and Deguara in round 3. Everyone was screaming for McLaurin instead of Jace (who I liked as a pick) in 2019. I think this was BOTH MLF and GUTE. Those picks in 2019 and 2020 screamed MLF, and as GM you just can't abandon your draft philosophy for a rookie HC. That 2020 draft was so egregious and it cost us at least one SB. This boneheaded drafting was given an exclamation point with the Quay pick. ILB round one when you absolutely need a starter on the line with Jenkins and Bakh out to begin the season. Joe Barry got his guy, and you gave the finger to the MVP instead: he needs to be fired ASAP (I mean Joe, not Gute: Gute will be gone soon enough).

I'm also in the "not understandable" category for a very divisive matter. AR is the best. Both the Rams and Niners were ready to trade away everything and their kitchen sink (not to mention Denver) for the so called declining over the hill QB. This is just a big divide in WI, and I really think it's more like 50/50 because a lot of the older folks (like myself) aren't on internet forums: they really really know what's coming and how lucky we are to have AR. It is simply amazing how well he has aged: only Favre and Brady (and Moon come think of it) have held up like this. Of those three, AR still is the most talented. He is incredibly underrated, but it's a divide in the fan base: what it is. Give him his 2020 oline (and we're not far perhaps from that) and a couple more WRs, and he can still have an MVP season again. It's that simple. Gute has NOT done what's needed, NOW FOR FOUR DRAFTS IN A ROW, to help out this offense. It's like AR can always get by with the scraps in the draft: NO HE CAN'T. He's older and needs MORE not LESS help, esp protection. And your only shot at another title has been to help AR, who is the most reliable guy in GB for 15 years, not your new HC, not Joe Barry. You support and bolster the knowns. Gute has dropped the quality of this FO a lot in his tenure. He just doesn't get it.

Another excellent post from you.

To that idiot OBNDY and anybody else thinking "rebuild", doing that - a fire sale, like the Bears now seem to be doing - is NEVER a good idea. Rebuild on the fly! That's been the Packer way for a long long time if not forever, and it's like that for almost all of the successful teams.

[th87]

Rodgers had 3 of his only 4 seasons with a QBR under 100 the three seasons prior to picking love. He only had 25 and 26 TD passes the 2 before. People were really down on him....just like right now.

Learning behind a QB absolutely IS a thing. It just doesn't get done much anymore because of the pressure on GMs to win now. I can think of a guy it worked out really well for. And it isn't vital, I'll agree. You can have 2 losing seasons WHILE they learn, but its not advised. Much better for them to learn while the team wins. Quick....name the last rookie or 2nd year QB to win an OWL (hint, there were no rookies and 4 second year guys. All 4 of those guys had great teams around them, and 1 was Kurt warner who learned in arena and Europe)

Finally, no one argues that drafting Love was the right move. I was pissed as hell and still think it was a fuck up. If you believe that ARod would have dutifully played happy and been Mr. Team if we hadn't drafted Love you are nuts. No matter what he would have "got his". Thats the way the NFL is. Every great player gets paid. The only point I actually made (not the 5 you think I made) is that drafting Love, given all the circumstances was understandable. Just as I made the point a couple decades ago at about the exact time in Rodgers career...Under the circumstances drafting Rodgers wasn't the worst move ever.

Many, many of us were suspicious that Rodgers' "decline" in those years was due to the terribly unimaginative 3-wide no-motion offense that MM put out there, along with the scraps at WR besides Adams (who himself only became himself in 2018). We were proven right when we brought in a creative mind that actually schemed receivers open (like we jealously saw other teams do). Accordingly, when he played lights out, many of us weren't surprised at all.

I'd say one year is the sweet spot for a QB to sit and learn. If they sit for two, you only have one evaluation year before an extension looms, and that year will be full of growing pains, so it'd be hard to truly tell if they're worth extending. And the sitting would be to get used to the speed of the game and to learn the offense. I seriously doubt there's some secret that the new guy picks up from the old guy that no one else knows, that also cannot be picked up in one year.

That it worked out for Rodgers doesn't mean it was definitively the right approach. We're fortunate he was cool about sitting for 3 full years, and was willing to sign a cheap extension. But then we lost some years in which we could've loaded the team while he was on his rookie deal. It definitely seems he was ready in 2007, so it could've been good to have his breakout year come a year early in 2008.

Regarding drafting Rodgers versus Love, the circumstances were different. Contracts, where the team was at the time, what the incumbent QB was saying, all those things. Favre hinted at retirement multiple times by then; Rodgers said he wanted to keep playing into his 40s. The 2004 team looked a long way from contention, getting mooned by the Vikings, while the 2019 team had made it to the NFCCG, where Pettine couldn't figure out how to stop simple handoffs.

Nothing to do with your arguments, but my view is that the Packers should go Rams-all-in during the time Rodgers is here. The year he retires, draft the BPA, then go in with a journeyman stopgap QB. The following year, draft your QB of the future, and let him learn behind the stopgap. Then hand over the reins. I don't think it makes sense to do half all-in, half think about the future.

[th87]

"understandable"

No. I am squarely on the others side. What made it so so much worse was getting a THIRD RB in round two, and Deguara in round 3. Everyone was screaming for McLaurin instead of Jace (who I liked as a pick) in 2019. I think this was BOTH MLF and GUTE. Those picks in 2019 and 2020 screamed MLF, and as GM you just can't abandon your draft philosophy for a rookie HC. That 2020 draft was so egregious and it cost us at least one SB. This boneheaded drafting was given an exclamation point with the Quay pick. ILB round one when you absolutely need a starter on the line with Jenkins and Bakh out to begin the season. Joe Barry got his guy, and you gave the finger to the MVP instead: he needs to be fired ASAP (I mean Joe, not Gute: Gute will be gone soon enough).

I'm also in the "not understandable" category for a very divisive matter. AR is the best. Both the Rams and Niners were ready to trade away everything and their kitchen sink (not to mention Denver) for the so called declining over the hill QB. This is just a big divide in WI, and I really think it's more like 50/50 because a lot of the older folks (like myself) aren't on internet forums: they really really know what's coming and how lucky we are to have AR. It is simply amazing how well he has aged: only Favre and Brady (and Moon come think of it) have held up like this. Of those three, AR still is the most talented. He is incredibly underrated, but it's a divide in the fan base: what it is. Give him his 2020 oline (and we're not far perhaps from that) and a couple more WRs, and he can still have an MVP season again. It's that simple. Gute has NOT done what's needed, NOW FOR FOUR DRAFTS IN A ROW, to help out this offense. It's like AR can always get by with the scraps in the draft: NO HE CAN'T. He's older and needs MORE not LESS help, esp protection. And your only shot at another title has been to help AR, who is the most reliable guy in GB for 15 years, not your new HC, not Joe Barry. You support and bolster the knowns. Gute has dropped the quality of this FO a lot in his tenure. He just doesn't get it.

Bravo, sir.

[red]

FIRE EVERYONE

TRADE EVERYONE

OH MY GOD THIS IS SO HORRIBLE

And if the new regime, from the president to the GM to the head coach to the players, don't win three in a row right off the bat, FIRE THEM TOO.

DON'T STOP FIRING PEOPLE UNTIL I FEEL BETTER.

THATS THE SPIRIT!!!!

https://trailhead.salesforce.com/trailblazer-community/download/file/0694S000002i8TgQAI

[bobblehead]

Many, many of us were suspicious that Rodgers' "decline" in those years was due to the terribly unimaginative 3-wide no-motion offense that MM put out there, along with the scraps at WR besides Adams (who himself only became himself in 2018). We were proven right when we brought in a creative mind that actually schemed receivers open (like we jealously saw other teams do). Accordingly, when he played lights out, many of us weren't surprised at all.

I'd say one year is the sweet spot for a QB to sit and learn. If they sit for two, you only have one evaluation year before an extension looms, and that year will be full of growing pains, so it'd be hard to truly tell if they're worth extending. And the sitting would be to get used to the speed of the game and to learn the offense. I seriously doubt there's some secret that the new guy picks up from the old guy that no one else knows, that also cannot be picked up in one year.

That it worked out for Rodgers doesn't mean it was definitively the right approach. We're fortunate he was cool about sitting for 3 full years, and was willing to sign a cheap extension. But then we lost some years in which we could've loaded the team while he was on his rookie deal. It definitely seems he was ready in 2007, so it could've been good to have his breakout year come a year early in 2008.

Regarding drafting Rodgers versus Love, the circumstances were different. Contracts, where the team was at the time, what the incumbent QB was saying, all those things. Favre hinted at retirement multiple times by then; Rodgers said he wanted to keep playing into his 40s. The 2004 team looked a long way from contention, getting mooned by the Vikings, while the 2019 team had made it to the NFCCG, where Pettine couldn't figure out how to stop simple handoffs.

Nothing to do with your arguments, but my view is that the Packers should go Rams-all-in during the time Rodgers is here. The year he retires, draft the BPA, then go in with a journeyman stopgap QB. The following year, draft your QB of the future, and let him learn behind the stopgap. Then hand over the reins. I don't think it makes sense to do half all-in, half think about the future.

Nice long winded post, except for one detail...the first year in the MLF young creative offense he DID NOT play so great. He only dialed the clock back and won an MVP AFTER we drafted Love and he felt disrespected....much like Brent had 2 of his best seasons AFTER we disrespected him and traded him away. No bigger critic of fat mike than me, but ARod wasn't the ARod of old WITH adams until we drafted Love. Those are simply facts.

[Jaire]

Just to clarify one point. No one was calling us trying to trade for ARod in 2019. They were calling AFTER he ran the offense and won an MVP award.....and I advocated trading him at the time.

Yeah. So, we are on opposites sides of that divide I was talking about. And I do understand your position. On my side, I just think AR has carried a lot of water (and continues to) for both coaching and more for the FO (which has become middle of the pack, where they were once the envy of the league). It's been a noticeable decline, I'd say since 2015: I gave Gute the benefit of the doubt til now, because now it's clearer whereas before I was just hoping it was reasonable mistakes.

[Jaire]

Nice long winded post, except for one detail...the first year in the MLF young creative offense he DID NOT play so great. He only dialed the clock back and won an MVP AFTER we drafted Love and he felt disrespected....much like Brent had 2 of his best seasons AFTER we disrespected him and traded him away. No bigger critic of fat mike than me, but ARod wasn't the ARod of old WITH adams until we drafted Love. Those are simply facts.

I agree. He did have a very good look in the mirror. He said so.

Honestly I think he took on a lot of the character (and flaws) of MM. That he overcame it is credit to AR. It was a bounce back. Regardless, I absolutely hated what they were doing in 2020 to AR. It absolutely stunk imo, and as you criticize AR, I think it's altogether fitting and deserved to criticize the FO which many at the time did. Also, I remember HOW they fired MM. I was for the firing (cuz he lost the locker room -- just can't do that), but HOW they did it stunk: no way around. I do think Gute has become better since. I just don't think he can ever lead us back to a SB. It was there for his taking, and I'd even say this year, it was there.

Anyways, tbh, I don't really care about SBs for GB or as a fan even. I just feel bad for AR and the players. I'm VERY appreciative both of AR and this whole locker room. They deserve a bit better from the FO and coaching (esp on the defensive side).

[Fritz]

I feel bad for them too. Then I look at my paycheck. Then I look at their paycheck. I think about how we both work really hard.

And then I don't feel so bad for them any more.

[Jaire]

I feel bad for them too. Then I look at my paycheck. Then I look at their paycheck. I think about how we both work really hard.

And then I don't feel so bad for them any more.

indeed. what am I thinking? Moreover, the players themselves could have won their last two outs, despite the circumstances. It was in their grasp.

[th87]

Nice long winded post, except for one detail...the first year in the MLF young creative offense he DID NOT play so great. He only dialed the clock back and won an MVP AFTER we drafted Love and he felt disrespected....much like Brent had 2 of his best seasons AFTER we disrespected him and traded him away. No bigger critic of fat mike than me, but ARod wasn't the ARod of old WITH adams until we drafted Love. Those are simply facts.

You don't think picking up a new offense might cause growing pains? Despite that, he was much better than the last years under MM.

And he had a solid playoff game to get us to the NFCCG.