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View Full Version : REGGIE BUSH vs. MARIO WILLIAMS and other tidbits



Bretsky
09-16-2006, 12:17 AM
Williams' light hidden under Bush
Posted: Sept. 14, 2006
NFL Beat

Tom Silverstein
E-MAIL

Life is good for Reggie Bush.

The same can't be said for Mario Williams, however. It appears that every time Bush does something significant on the football field, Williams is going to have to pay for it.

Bush, of course, is the running back the Houston Texans didn't select with the No. 1 pick in the draft. He was the consensus No. 1 pick until the Texans did a two-step and settled on Williams, the Adonis-like defensive end from North Carolina State.

On Sunday, Bush looked as NFL-ready as just about any back in the league, carrying 14 times for 61 yards, catching eight passes for 58 yards and returning three punts for 22 yards in New Orleans' 19-14 upset of Cleveland.

Plenty of people wanted the Texans to take Bush before the draft and plenty more wished they had after lead running back Domanick Davis was lost for the season with a knee injury during training camp. So while the Saints trot out Bush and Deuce McAllister, the Texans take the field with sixth-round pick Wali Lundy, Heisman Trophy bust Ron Dayne and the newly acquired former Packer Samkon Gado.

Saints RB Reggie Bush avoids a tackle by Cleveland's Brodney Pool during a pass play on Sunday.

In a 24-10 home loss to Philadelphia on Sunday, the Texans rushed for just 70 yards, the sixth-lowest team total in Week 1, and managed just one sack of Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb. Williams had two solo tackles and one assist.

Everyone who scouted Williams, a junior eligible, knew he was an unfinished product unlike Bush, who probably could have played in the pros in the sixth grade. So it's not surprising that he didn't have a Reggie White impact in his first game.

The Texans probably didn't help his cause, either, playing him all across the defensive line during the course of the game. He played both end spots, the tackle position and over the nose. Instead of getting a steady diet of outside rushes, he had to adjust his game down to down.

"I don't think moving him around has hurt him," Texans coach Gary Kubiak said. "He shows no signs of the mental part bothering him. If we think that keeping him at one spot makes him more effective, then we'll do that, too."

Williams had been mostly a defensive end in college, although he did shift inside on some passing downs. But moving him around lessens the fatigue factor on the offensive tackle who has to face him down after down and it could be limiting his success.

Someone who knows a little bit about making an impact as a rookie is end Dwight Freeney of the Indianapolis Colts, who play host to the Texans this weekend. Freeney was put at right end from the day he arrived in Indianapolis and told to get the quarterback. He has been doing it with frightening frequency ever since.

"If you want a guy to get better, you have to have him do the same thing over and over and over," Freeney said. "If he does 20 different things, he's going to be average. Sometimes, he'll be below average. Sometimes, he might be a little bit better. If you're not doing the same thing every single day, it's going to catch up to you.

"You'll be a good utility player but at the end of the day, you have to be put in a position to excel."

The same can't be said about moving Bush around. The Saints used him as a running back and a receiver and it's likely they'll move him around in more interesting ways this Sunday against Green Bay.

He creates a mismatch with a linebacker if a team plays a base defense against the Saints and if they go with an extra defensive back the Saints can run the ball against a six-man front. It's looking like having Bush fall into their laps in the draft is the best thing that could have happened for the Saints.

"It's good for a quarterback," said Drew Brees, New Orleans' man behind center.

The old fashioned way
If it were Bud Grant and Fran Tarkenton meeting on the sideline, one would have thought it was an NFL Films clip.

Only it wasn't the two old Vikings, it was new Vikings coach Brad Childress and quarterback Brad Johnson, forced to gather on the sideline after a number of plays because their wireless communication system had failed Monday night at FedEx Field. It was throwback night for the Vikings as Childress sent in plays with his wide receivers and yelled plays to his quarterback whenever he could make it over to the sideline.

"Hadn't done that since Pop Warner," receiver Travis Taylor said of relaying in the plays. "They would give me the formation and the play. Brad pretty much knows the plays, so I just had to remember two or three words of it and everything was good."

It wasn't so good with Childress, who called the league this week to find out why his system went down and home team Washington's didn't.

Bye bye birdie
For some reason, wide receivers in the NFL have magic powers over ownership.

They seem to be the only players who can force themselves out of town when they aren't on the same page with their head coach or don't like their contract. A lot has changed over the years since Sterling Sharpe once tried to hold Green Bay hostage the night before the 1994 season opener but managed to get only minor adjustments to his contract.

Perhaps the turnaround was when Keyshawn Johnson misbehaved his way out of Tampa Bay in 2003, forcing the team to deactivate him - with pay - for the last six games of the season. Before that, Joey Galloway and Terry Glenn, to a lesser degree, got out and after that Terrell Owens, Javon Walker and Ashley Lelie wiggled their way out of situations they couldn't live with.

The latest to do so was New England wide receiver Deion Branch, who after holding out all of training camp was given the opportunity to negotiate with other teams. When Branch filed grievances with the Patriots because they refused to trade him after he made a deal, the Patriots relented and traded him to Seattle for a first-round pick.

It's unclear why wide receivers have the ability to do what so few others can, but a lot of it appears to be that teams don't want to deal with their behavior anymore. They're usually vocal about their displeasure and it's easier to ship them out than to wait them out.

Shuffle board
One of the reasons the Carolina Panthers were so successful last season was the stability of their offensive line.

This year, they have problems.

Left tackle Travelle Wharton was lost for the season Sunday with a knee injury and center Justin Hartwig (groin) is questionable for Sunday, so it's possible the Panthers could have a complete shuffle of their offensive line with up to four players lined up at new positions.

"You've got to play the cards you're dealt," said left guard Mike Wahle, who could play tackle but probably won't be moved. "You don't ever foresee a guy blowing his (knee) out, but it's part of the deal."

Carpenter's dream
You can't fool Takeo Spikes.

If it looks like rebuilding and quacks like rebuilding, it must be rebuilding.

That's what the Buffalo Bills are apparently doing after cutting ties with veteran Troy Vincent and going with a pair of rookies - Donte Whitner and Ko Simpson - at the safety position.

"I never did want to look at it that way," Spikes said. "But you have to be a realist about every situation that happens. If you write it down on paper or say it out loud, it spells rebuild. As much as you don't want it to be that way, ultimately that's the way that it is."

It takes brains
Don't be surprised if Arizona defensive tackle Darnell Dockett finds himself $10,000 lighter in the pocket.

Dockett put such an obvious late hit on San Francisco 49ers quarterback Alex Smith that even his own coach said he was wrong for doing it. Smith had rolled all the way out to the right sideline when he stepped out of bounds before throwing. Along came Dockett, who dived at Smith's legs and knocked him down.

"Anytime you play hard and you play all out, you may hit somebody late," Dockett said. "You may tackle somebody the wrong way. If you're not playing hard, then you don't have to worry about hitting anybody out of bounds. I don't think it was a dumb mistake."

Not so, said coach Dennis Green, who flat out told Dockett he was wrong.

Sweet dreams
Tampa Bay quarterback Chris Simms has had better nights of sleep.

After throwing three interceptions - one returned 60 yards for a touchdown - in the season opener Sunday against the Ravens, he was sentenced to a night of somnolent replay.

"You know, I sleep," Simms said. "But 5 o'clock in the morning rolls around and I wake up just like everybody else does for a couple seconds and I get visions of Chris McAlister running down the sidelines. That's the honest truth. I fall back to sleep eventually, but it's not the most peaceful dreams in the world."

Short yardage
Miami brought in former Detroit wide receiver Charles Rogers for a workout but he was not signed to a contract. . . . After beating his old team, Johnson, the Minnesota quarterback, was seen wearing a Washington jersey on his way to the team bus. . . . The Bills re-signed former Wisconsin safety Jim Leonhard, who was released on the final cut. He'll help back up the two rookies. . . . Oakland signed wide receiver Leo Bookman to its practice squad. Bookman spent a short time in the Packers' training camp.

HarveyWallbangers
09-16-2006, 12:41 AM
There was another article that came out today that said Mario Williams will be a good player, but he'll never be a great player. It also said the Texans should have taken Reggie Bush (well, duh). I was going to post it, but I thought I'd be kind to bulldog. Plus, I think it's too early to judge him. I can't find the article now, but it basically said he's big and fast, but he doesn't have the "quick twitch" needed to be a great pass rushing DE.

Bretsky
09-16-2006, 12:44 AM
There was another article that came out today that said Mario Williams will be a good player, but he'll never be a great player. It also said the Texans should have taken Reggie Bush (well, duh). I was going to post it, but I thought I'd be kind to bulldog. Plus, I think it's too early to judge him. I can't find the article now, but it basically said he's big and fast, but he doesn't have the "quick twitch" needed to be a great pass rushing DE.

Thanks for the article Harv :wink: ; that's why I'm here.....so I don't have to surf elsewhere to find the good juice.

Cheers,
B

Terry
09-16-2006, 03:22 AM
There was another article that came out today that said Mario Williams will be a good player, but he'll never be a great player. It also said the Texans should have taken Reggie Bush (well, duh). I was going to post it, but I thought I'd be kind to bulldog. Plus, I think it's too early to judge him. I can't find the article now, but it basically said he's big and fast, but he doesn't have the "quick twitch" needed to be a great pass rushing DE.

I wonder if Mike Sherman had any influence on that pick. Or how he felt about it at the time.

ND72
09-16-2006, 01:07 PM
Mario Williams could be a 10+ sack a year guy, get 120 sacks in his career...and never be able to reach what & where Reggie Bush will be.

Scott Campbell
09-16-2006, 01:22 PM
I still wish we had traded up for Bush.

Willard
09-16-2006, 02:12 PM
I still wish we had traded up for Bush.

What would you have given up? Do you think NO would have swapped picks if we threw in Favre? I think it would have taken a lot more than that.

ND72
09-16-2006, 02:16 PM
NO...they just signed Brees to a big contract, you think they'd take Favre and 10 million dollars? especially when Favre might only play for 1 maybe 2 years. That's doubtful...I'm still more than happy with AJ Hawk, who by the end of the year will be showing exactly why he was considered the "safest" pick for defense.

Scott Campbell
09-16-2006, 02:17 PM
Walker, or the pick we got for Walker.

wist43
09-16-2006, 02:20 PM
The Texans are mishandling Williams by moving him around. He played LDE in college. Let him get acclimated to the NFL at his natural position, and go from there.

It never ceases to amaze me how people who have risen to the highest ranks in the NFL can take a great player, or in this case a potentially great player, and project him to another position that he clearly isn't suited for.

Sometimes projections make sense b/c of the stark differences between the NFL and college; but, in this case, it's obvious the Texans coaching staff went out behind the barn, smoked some grass, and came back with the hairbrained idea to move Williams up and down the line, thereby all but ensuring that he will struggle.

Willard
09-16-2006, 02:23 PM
Walker, or the pick we got for Walker.

My guess is it would take more than a #36 to move up from #5 to #2 when a player like Bush is the prize, but you are right that Walker may have been part of the package. My guess is at least our #5, JWalk AND next year's first round pick. At least.

Harlan Huckleby
09-16-2006, 02:30 PM
My guess is at least our #5, JWalk AND next year's first round pick. At least.

This sounds about realistic. Wish the Packers had played Aaron Rodger against Seattle's 2nd string in season finale last year. Then they would have picked #3.

Can't complain about AJ HAwk, tho.

HarveyWallbangers
09-16-2006, 08:36 PM
Would Texans take Bush now?
By Len Pasquarelli, ESPN.com

One week into a season, and just one game into any player's career, is a little early in the process to be authoring a work of revisionist history.

But, c'mon, don't you think that if the Houston Texans were exercising the top overall selection in the draft now, instead of on April 29, tailback Reggie Bush would have been the choice? We're not talking about hindsight, just the present view, OK? And currently the Houston brass is looking through a prism that does not include starting tailback Domanick Davis, shelved for the season by a knee injury.

With 70 rushing yards in last week's season-opening loss to the Eagles, the Texans were forced to start sixth-rounder Wali Lundy and to scramble for veteran backups. Bush must have looked pretty good from afar to a Texans brain trust that remains pretty sensitive when questioned about the first pick. In his debut for New Orleans, the elusive Bush totaled 141 all-purpose yards. Defensive end Mario Williams, the player selected ahead of Bush, had two solo tackles and one assist and, according to the coaching staff, had some problems with assignment and alignment in the opener.

So, for a change, let's have a little fun here. Let's reconstruct what the top 10 selections in the first round might look like were the teams making them now, with today's conditions, instead of on April 29. The only ground rule is that choices must be made from among the top 15 players chosen in the first round:

1. Houston: Even five months after the fact, it is difficult to fathom that the Texans opted for Williams over Bush with the top selection. For all the rationalization the Houston brass has done, and for all the whispers that emanated from a management team about the inability to strike a contract agreement with Bush and agent Joel Segal, the Texans know in their hearts that was a contrived excuse. If the Texans made the call truly based on position, as former general manager Charley Casserly insisted last weekend in his new role as a CBS studio analyst, so be it. Whether we buy the logic or not doesn't matter. But if the pick were made today, not on April 29, the guess is that the "signability" myth would be out the window and Bush would be the Texans' starting tailback.

2. New Orleans: The Saints couldn't believe their good fortune the night before the draft, when word broke that the Texans were taking Williams, allowing Bush to fall into their laps. But if Bush was off the board, the guess is that the Saints would grab the man they intended to take all along, linebacker A.J. Hawk. Yeah, he was the choice over Williams until Bush slipped out of the top slot. The former Ohio State star, who subsequently went in the No. 5 slot to Green Bay, has struggled more than people anticipated, but scouts still feel Hawk will be a multiple Pro Bowl performer. And think about this: The Saints have either signed as free agents or traded for nine veteran linebackers since the end of the 2005 season.

3. Tennessee: The Titans grabbed Vince Young and common sense indicates that, even if they were given a do-over, the results would be the same. The former University of Texas star was the top-rated quarterback on the Tennessee draft board and, with the staff disenchanted with presumptive caretaker Billy Volek and forced to sign Kerry Collins off the street, Young would still be the youngster around whom the Titans would want to build for the future.

4. New York Jets: Were this story written a week ago, the choice here would have been one of the top quarterbacks in the draft, either Jay Cutler or Matt Leinart. But it's being written today, with the memory of Chad Pennington's stellar opening-game performance still fresh in everyone's minds. Sure, Pennington has to demonstrate that he can repeat that kind of outing on a regular basis. But he threw the ball with authority and accuracy last week, and displayed better arm strength than anticipated, so perhaps he still is the Jets' quarterback for the future as well as the present. If that is indeed the case, then the selection of offensive tackle D'Brickashaw Ferguson, the pass protector New York chose in April, stands as a solid one.

5. Green Bay: The Packers selected Hawk on April 29 and, if he was still available, probably would do so again. But with Hawk having gone second, to New Orleans, in the revisionist draft, the Packers have to refocus on a different first-rounder. And the pick would be safety Michael Huff, who went to Oakland in the real draft. Huff would provide a physical presence in the middle of the secondary, a young hitter to team with second-year safety Nick Collins.

6. San Francisco: Niners coach Mike Nolan desperately needs a pass-rusher and, with Williams still on this board, it would be difficult to pass him. Williams might not be a good fit for Nolan's 3-4 front, and it remains to be seen if he is the pass-rush force everyone projects him to be, but San Francisco might at least have a chance to pressure the pocket with him in the lineup.

7. Oakland: Given the way Cutler played in preseason, and the abysmal performance by Aaron Brooks in the Raiders' opening-game loss last week, the former Vanderbilt quarterback, who was chosen by Denver with the 11th choice, has to look pretty good. Cutler has the kind of big arm Raiders owner Al Davis covets and, while it's hard to put too much stock in preseason results, it appears he is more ready to play quickly than most scouts had anticipated.

8. Buffalo: The Bills were criticized for reaching for Donte Whitner and, while that assessment might be true, the Ohio State safety has played well. The No. 8 slot might have been a little high for Whitner, but he is all football player. With the loss of veteran Troy Vincent (hamstring) for the season, the Bills probably wouldreach again for Whitner if they were making the choice today.

9. Detroit: The Lions loved weakside linebacker Ernie Sims five months ago. They'd probably love him just as much today. The former Florida State star is a very active defender and, with nine tackles in the opener, he seems like a guy who could contend for defensive rookie of the year honors.

10. Arizona: With incumbent starter Kurt Warner 35 years old, no one can argue with the decision to take Matt Leinart, certainly the player around whom the franchise will build for the future. But the Cardinals have needed a tight end for years. And with Vernon Davis still on the board, it's impossible to pass him. The athletically gifted Davis would provide Warner a superb inside target to team with standout young wide receivers Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald. Arizona, by the way, did land a potentially solid tight end in the third round of real draft, snagging Leonard Pope of Georgia.

Bretsky
09-16-2006, 08:58 PM
Thanks Harvey; Great Article.

But I can't see GB passing on Mario at 5; Bulldog would be crying foul for the next 10 years.

Cheers,
B

b bulldog
09-16-2006, 08:59 PM
Mario has underperformed but most noted that he was raw and will need time to develop. reggie looks real good and looks to be the reasl deal while Ernie Sims looks to be the best LB in this years draft. I think Hawk will be OK, not great. It iss till very early so these predictions could be way off so .......

Bretsky
09-16-2006, 09:02 PM
Mario has underperformed but most noted that he was raw and will need time to develop. reggie looks real good and looks to be the reasl deal while Ernie Sims looks to be the best LB in this years draft. I think Hawk will be OK, not great. It iss till very early so these predictions could be way off so .......

Bull,
Are you ready to admit Mario is a project with upside, or do you still see him as more than that ?

BTW, Michigan looked awesome today.

B

b bulldog
09-16-2006, 09:05 PM
Look back at my posts before the draft and I stated that it will probably take a year and a half for him to shine. He is very raw but I still think he will be a stud but I may be wrong. Do you still think Hawk is the most NFL ready Dplayer??

Tony Oday
09-16-2006, 09:06 PM
Id still rather have Hawk because I do not think that Hawk will ever be on the front page doing something bad only maybe beating an armed robber with a tree trunk!

b bulldog
09-16-2006, 09:08 PM
Sims will be very good in the Tampa style D(dERRICK bROOKS). He will be the best LB chosen in this years draft imo.

Bretsky
09-16-2006, 09:16 PM
Look back at my posts before the draft and I stated that it will probably take a year and a half for him to shine. He is very raw but I still think he will be a stud but I may be wrong. Do you still think Hawk is the most NFL ready Dplayer??

Dam Good Memory; well it certainly seems that Bush is the most NFL ready; I'm not at all convinced Sims would have been effective in our system. I still feel that Hawk was the correct pick unless we traded down and I still feel we'll see him in some Pro Bowls.

B

b bulldog
09-16-2006, 09:21 PM
Hopefully your right but he looks lost somewhat but he is young. Watching OSt., one might wonder if it is the system that produces the LB's more so than great individual players. Their LB's have looked like they aren't missing Bobby,AJ or the middle backer from last years team.

KYPack
09-16-2006, 09:23 PM
I almost feel sorry for this kid. The moved him to RDE as has been said and he is one lost soul. When you pay the kind of $ Houston put out, you want the kid to come at the QB from the blind side.

The problem is, he's totally a fish out of water. He's not only shaky in his footwork, he' doesn't know how to use his hands. He isn't used to coming out of his stance from the right side, so he a beat off in his first step. Not only that, he has no punch, he keeps his hands low & slow. The film I saw, that was earning him a fat lip.

They need to get an old gnarly RDE to work with him and teach him the tricks. Right now, he's lost at sea.

HarveyWallbangers
09-16-2006, 09:25 PM
Sims will be like Dan Morgan. Hurt as much as he's healthy. Hawk will have a better career, IMHO.

You don't take a project #1 overall. Reggie Bush was the biggest no-brainer for a #1 pick in awhile. The Texans blew it.

b bulldog
09-16-2006, 09:26 PM
He was moved to DT on passing downs but with his size, I'd probably do the same. He is getting paid very handsomely to make plays and he needs to make them no matter where he puts his hand down.

KYPack
09-19-2006, 09:17 PM
I almost feel sorry for this kid. The moved him to RDE as has been said and he is one lost soul. When you pay the kind of $ Houston put out, you want the kid to come at the QB from the blind side.

The problem is, he's totally a fish out of water. He's not only shaky in his footwork, he' doesn't know how to use his hands. He isn't used to coming out of his stance from the right side, so he a beat off in his first step. Not only that, he has no punch, he keeps his hands low & slow. The film I saw, that was earning him a fat lip.

They need to get an old gnarly RDE to work with him and teach him the tricks. Right now, he's lost at sea.

Saw a bit of the Texans game.

They moved him back to his old home, LDE.

And....

He played like crap. The RT took his one move(an edge rush) and just rode him right out of every pass rush. He had two tackles and wasn't even a factor. I really don't know if this kid will ever make it. He's green as goose shit.