Studs and Duds Bills Edition

[beveaux1]

We had a near 400 yard offensive performance and outgained the Bills. We won the turnover battle for the first time this year.

Unfortunately, we still were beaten by 10 because of a poor first half defensive performance by the Packers or a great first half offensive performance by the Bills.

Studs:

Jones
Dillon
Rodgers
Doubs
Run blocking OL

Duds:

Savage
Amos
Walker
Pass blocking Interior OL

[RashanGary]

Tom isn’t ready. He’s a natural ball player but too small.

[Joemailman]

Alexander was a stud. INT, 4 passes defensed and did not give up a reception when covering Diggs.

I thought Gary was a dud. 1 tackle, 0 QB hits. Enagbare, in far less playing time, was better.

[beveaux1]

Alexander was a stud. INT, 4 passes defensed and did not give up a reception when covering Diggs.

I thought Gary was a dud. 1 tackle, 0 QB hits. Enagbare, in far less playing time, was better.

Actually, none of the CBs stunk the joint up. Stokes was better than he has been. Douglas had a tough assignment, covering Diggs, and he did OK.

Savage was bad. Worst tackler on the defense.

I thought there was good pressure on Allen the whole game. How much was Gary I don’t know. They just couldn’t tackle him.

[Tony Oday]

No reason 23 isn't on Diggs, this d coordinator shouldn't have been allowed on the plane.

AR actually three the ball tonight, he needs to realize he can throw the ball to these guys and let them make plays. Jones and Dillon looked great.

[Joemailman]

Aaron Nagler last night:

"When did Darnell Savage become Ha-Ha Clinton-Dix?"

[call_me_ishmael]

Seriously, how did this guy become so bad? He has all the tools. Nick Collins he is not.

[texaspackerbacker]

Gary was getting in there, coming close all game, but when Allen move up in the pocket, our D Line had no push there and he was able to get away. The interior D Line also allowed a lot of big runs early in the game. It's probably not that they were so bad, just that Buffalo had a good O Line, like most teams. Gary, Smith, and Enagbare all lost contain a few times, but overall, I wouldn't call them duds.

Campbell was playing like a dud even before going out. Ditto that to some extent for Walker. Wilson and McDuffie were seemingly no worse, maybe better than the starters.

Absolutely, Savage was a dud. I'd bench him and use Douglas at Safety with Nixon at Slot. Maybe try Savage at punt returning - he is at least fast, and he couldn't be worse than Amari.

This was the best our O Line has looked in a long time - close to being studs on run plays, although Jones and to a lesser extent Dillon did a lot with not very good blocking on some plays. For once, I don't even have much of a complaint against the sacred cow, Bakhtiari - although they were helping out him and Nijman a LOT with TEs. Really, it was just Tom who gor beat consistently. I don't think they came over Myers and Runyan much. I woulda thought they'd have tried Newman for Tom. He may not be much, but I don't recall him being as bad as Tom.

Studs: all mentioned already - roughly in order, A. Jones, Jaire, Rodgers, Doubs, Toure, I'll throw in Tonyan and DeGuara too - the best I've seen that latter play.

It don't take much to look like a stud compared to recent games hahahahaha. Kinda disgusting to have this much positive to say in a loss, even to a good team.

[Sparkey]

Studs: Toure.... His first TD catch and he made a great adjustment to bend off the route after the defender turned his back. Unteachable stuff. Doubs looked good. Dillon and Jones ran the ball hard and forcefully. Rodgers looked better and more active in the pocket and made some really good throws. Missed the one to Doubs early as it was an under throw.

Duds: The defensive line is just bad and the whole read/react by the line is a joke. These guys are being pushed and manipulated and making it really difficult for the rest of the defense. Is it me or does the defense seem even more passive than last years line ?

Zach Tom is not big or strong enough to play guard. The loss of Jenkins for this game really hurt. In hindsight, thinking that Bahk and Jenks would both be ready was a mistake and it is costing them games.

The TE's: All their TE's are terrible in the passing game. Tonyan has no acceleration and it is making it too easy on defenses.

Super Dud: I have seen enough! Barry is terrible. Fire his ass and let Gray run the defense the rest of the year. Don't care that Gray is a 4-3 guy. He can't be any worse than Barry.

[beveaux1]

I'm not high on Barry, but one of our biggest problems all year has been tackling. That's on the guys playing defense, not the coach.

Stokes never tackles in run-support. Savage is pretty useless. Campbell is not tackling like he did last year. Amos is missing tackles.

Every 4 yard run becomes an 8 yard run. An 8 yard run becomes a 22 yard run.

The first thing I'd do is replace Savage with Rudy Ford. That guy flies around like a missile. He has deficiencies in pass coverage, but he can tackle.

There's a reason that the replacement ILBs weren't noticeably bad. They made some tackles. Maybe a demotion will wake up the defense.

[bobblehead]

Tom isn’t ready. He’s a natural ball player but too small.

You can't just move a guy every week to a new position and expect him to ball out. He can and will be fine. If the preferred line is bak, jenkins, myers, runyan, yosh than Tom is the odd man out and this is his role for now. If the preferred line can stay healthy and play together I think it can be pretty damn good. The moved the ball and did ok against the best defense in football. Give Tom a real NFL off season to gain mass and muscle, and then give him a position and he will be good. In the meantime we can figure out of Bak can ever be relied on week in and out again. Maybe Jenkins can get back to 100% as well.

Sadly it doesn't look like its in the books for this year, but then again, stranger things have happened than a talented team putting it together at the right time.....

[bobblehead]

Alexander was a stud. INT, 4 passes defensed and did not give up a reception when covering Diggs.

I thought Gary was a dud. 1 tackle, 0 QB hits. Enagbare, in far less playing time, was better.

Gary is my new nominee for the most held player in the league.

[bobblehead]

Aaron Nagler last night:

"When did Darnell Savage become Ha-Ha Clinton-Dix?"
From the prediction thread

Offenses usually try to target a defenses weakness. To start the season we don't have any discernible soft spots on D. I'll predict that a bunch of "2nd tier" guys look like all pros simply because teams will test them. Others will be exposed for being over rated.

So my biggest prediction is massive disappointment in Savage. He will be picked on and exposed as not what we hoped he would be.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

I'm not high on Barry, but one of our biggest problems all year has been tackling. That's on the guys playing defense, not the coach.

Stokes never tackles in run-support. Savage is pretty useless. Campbell is not tackling like he did last year. Amos is missing tackles.

Every 4 yard run becomes an 8 yard run. An 8 yard run becomes a 22 yard run.

The first thing I'd do is replace Savage with Rudy Ford. That guy flies around like a missile. He has deficiencies in pass coverage, but he can tackle.

There's a reason that the replacement ILBs weren't noticeably bad. They made some tackles. Maybe a demotion will wake up the defense.

Hasn't that always been a Packer problem? At least for the secondary guys..

[bobblehead]

Studs: Toure.... His first TD catch and he made a great adjustment to bend off the route after the defender turned his back. Unteachable stuff. Doubs looked good. Dillon and Jones ran the ball hard and forcefully. Rodgers looked better and more active in the pocket and made some really good throws. Missed the one to Doubs early as it was an under throw.

Duds: The defensive line is just bad and the whole read/react by the line is a joke. These guys are being pushed and manipulated and making it really difficult for the rest of the defense. Is it me or does the defense seem even more passive than last years line ?

Zach Tom is not big or strong enough to play guard. The loss of Jenkins for this game really hurt. In hindsight, thinking that Bahk and Jenks would both be ready was a mistake and it is costing them games.

The TE's: All their TE's are terrible in the passing game. Tonyan has no acceleration and it is making it too easy on defenses.

Super Dud: I have seen enough! Barry is terrible. Fire his ass and let Gray run the defense the rest of the year. Don't care that Gray is a 4-3 guy. He can't be any worse than Barry.

Tom needs an offseason as I said. He is big enough to play guard and probably can right now, but added strength will help him a lot. He is undersized to play tackle, but his technique is so good he probably can...but again, adding 15 pounds of muscle this offseason will make him better than serviceable.

We played the NFLs best team and they were coming off a bye week. We had none of our preseason "top 3" WR from the time Watson left the game. We still moved the ball and ran it very well (although they lined up daring us to pass all game long). We played a juggernaut off a bye week. We got beat by a better team. Wouldn't it be awesome if we got healthy and clicked LATE for a change and got a rematch in the post season!!!

[Jaire]

Tom isn’t ready. He’s a natural ball player but too small.

Yeah. I saw that in the Washington game. MLF was sweating bullets after the game (and before when he had to throw Tom in there). That's a failure by Gute.

If we get a little luck, we can have Bakh-Jenkins-Myers-JRJ-Nijman. That's a better line up than the last two years (post injuries, playoff line up). Bulaga at least thought Bakh had a great game: STUD. I didn't really notice him: couldn't take my eyes off the interior caving on a lot of plays.

Edit: I agree with Bobblehead that he has great potential IF and only IF he can put some weight on. And I like him more as future LT right now. He was getting pushed back every snap in the Commanders game when he had no help, as well. He can't handle a bull rush at all right now and they really have to scheme him help.

[Jaire]

Studs: Toure.... ...... [YES: very excited about his future]
The TE's: All their TE's are terrible in the passing game. Tonyan has no acceleration and it is making it too easy on defenses.

Super Dud: I have seen enough! Barry is terrible. Fire his ass and let Gray run the defense the rest of the year. Don't care that Gray is a 4-3 guy. He can't be any worse than Barry.

Agree on Tonyan, BUT he is not going to be recovered from that injury til next year. HE DOES catch just about everything and is smart, reliable, good at getting open enough, and this team needs his reliable hands. Given what he is, he was a STUD in that game and had a TD stolen by the refs.

[texaspackerbacker]

Yeah. I saw that in the Washington game. MLF was sweating bullets after the game (and before when he had to throw Tom in there). That's a failure by Gute.

If we get a little luck, we can have Bakh-Jenkins-Myers-JRJ-Nijman. That's a better line up than the last two years (post injuries, playoff line up). Bulaga at least thought Bakh had a great game: STUD. I didn't really notice him: couldn't take my eyes off the interior caving on a lot of plays.

Edit: I agree with Bobblehead that he has great potential IF and only IF he can put some weight on. And I like him more as future LT right now. He was getting pushed back every snap in the Commanders game when he had no help, as well. He can't handle a bull rush at all right now and they really have to scheme him help.

Tom stunk it up in this game, but he didn't do as bad when he played Tackle. He seems to have some ability to move laterally. I wonder if Nijman could play Guard. Size and strength seems to be his strong suit. Bakhtiari wasn't very noticeable, which is a fairly good thing. I think he and Nijman both were getting a lot of help from TEs, though.

As I said in a different post, I'd like to see Douglas at Safety. It's just about unanimous that Savage is awful and not just in this one game. Use Nixon as slot Corner and Douglas in Savage's spot/ And as I also said elsewhere, maybe Savage would be an upgrade from Amari returning punts.

[Joemailman]

Yeah. I saw that in the Washington game. MLF was sweating bullets after the game (and before when he had to throw Tom in there). That's a failure by Gute.

If we get a little luck, we can have Bakh-Jenkins-Myers-JRJ-Nijman. That's a better line up than the last two years (post injuries, playoff line up). Bulaga at least thought Bakh had a great game: STUD. I didn't really notice him: couldn't take my eyes off the interior caving on a lot of plays.

Edit: I agree with Bobblehead that he has great potential IF and only IF he can put some weight on. And I like him more as future LT right now. He was getting pushed back every snap in the Commanders game when he had no help, as well. He can't handle a bull rush at all right now and they really have to scheme him help.

Bakh gave up no pressures on 34 pass pro snaps. He made Von Miller disappear. If Bakh and Jenkins can get and stay healthy, things could get a lot better. Shore up Rodgers' blind side and we'll see more downfield passing instead of so much stuff thrown behind the line.

[Bretsky]

A lot of Gutebag's questionable picks make the duds list for me

WYATT.....on a run Defense that's a sieve, the dude is playing so poorly he only got on the field for 10 dam snaps and did nothing
WALKER..Extreme talent with little production....perhaps that is on the DC
STOKES...Hate to say it, but he's not taking a step forward this year and his overall play seems to be going the wrong way from last year
SAVAGE...If you are a safety drafted in round one, you need to make some plays. I liked Savage at times; he's playing poorly at this point
GARY.......Pretty invisible. He's still a stud overall in my book (unlike the other 4 Gutebag draft picks listed first) but he was not on this game
RUN DEFENSE.....Have we really shut down anybody ? If we somehow squak into the playoffs, it's one and done if we can't stop the run

STUDS
Aaron Jones, our best offensive player
The Dubmeister- Great catch on a throw that was not that great
Backmeister - Would be great to see him string several games played in a row
Alexander -Showed some fire and backed it up

[Joemailman]

A lot of Gutebag's questionable picks make the duds list for me

WYATT.....on a run Defense that's a sieve, the dude is playing so poorly he only got on the field for 10 dam snaps and did nothing
WALKER..Extreme talent with little production....perhaps that is on the DC
STOKES...Hate to say it, but he's not taking a step forward this year and his overall play seems to be going the wrong way from last year
SAVAGE...If you are a safety drafted in round one, you need to make some plays. I liked Savage at times; he's playing poorly at this point
GARY.......Pretty invisible. He's still a stud overall in my book (unlike the other 4 Gutebag draft picks listed first) but he was not on this game
RUN DEFENSE.....Have we really shut down anybody ? If we somehow squak into the playoffs, it's one and done if we can't stop the run

STUDS
Aaron Jones, our best offensive player
The Dubmeister- Great catch on a throw that was not that great
Backmeister - Would be great to see him string several games played in a row
Alexander -Showed some fire and backed it up

Walker had 5 tackles and a forced fumble in 15 snaps before the ejection. He had his best game the week before at Washington. Obviously getting ejected hurt the team, but the light is really starting to come on for him.

PFF gave Wyatt a solid run defense grade. He's starting to play better even though he's not playing a lot.

[call_me_ishmael]

^ Bretsky hit the nail on the head as usual. How bad is Wyatt that he cannot get on the field. Did he just royally miss on that one? I thought he'd be a beast from day one since he is like 26 or something carzy.

[Sparkey]

^ Bretsky hit the nail on the head as usual. How bad is Wyatt that he cannot get on the field. Did he just royally miss on that one? I thought he'd be a beast from day one since he is like 26 or something carzy.

24

[bobblehead]

Yeah. I saw that in the Washington game. MLF was sweating bullets after the game (and before when he had to throw Tom in there). That's a failure by Gute.

If we get a little luck, we can have Bakh-Jenkins-Myers-JRJ-Nijman. That's a better line up than the last two years (post injuries, playoff line up). Bulaga at least thought Bakh had a great game: STUD. I didn't really notice him: couldn't take my eyes off the interior caving on a lot of plays.

Edit: I agree with Bobblehead that he has great potential IF and only IF he can put some weight on. And I like him more as future LT right now. He was getting pushed back every snap in the Commanders game when he had no help, as well. He can't handle a bull rush at all right now and they really have to scheme him help.

He will. This isn't a long lean Jason Spriggs situation...plus Tom isn't a tire fire as is. He is serviceable right now. He can be a stud with some muscle mass. People try and claim he is the same size as Bak....no, he is same as bak was when he came out. I don't give a damn what they are listed at right now. Bak is 320 easy....and when he stays on the field he is playing pretty good. I had written him off, and I still want to see him string 3 games together without the knee forcing him out, but if he is full go by playoffs and Jenkins also....this team still has a lot of chances to make a run of it.

Remember also that he was playing LT against the commanders. Being bull rushed in pass pro from the edge is VERY different than a bull rush inside. Size isn't preferred, its required. I realize fans don't get that, but its simply a fact. From the middle you stop worrying about a nimble guy like sweat making an inside move because its already clogged up. You simply anchor away and slow the fatty down. I've made long detailed posts about OL plenty of times, but I assure you Tom can be a good guard today if he stays put and gets a few starts there....but that isn't his role for now.

[bobblehead]

Tom stunk it up in this game, .

As usual, we watched different games. Tom had TWO bad snaps in the game. Exactly 2. PFF had Tom with the 4th best grade on offense.

[bobblehead]

Bakh gave up no pressures on 34 pass pro snaps. He made Von Miller disappear. If Bakh and Jenkins can get and stay healthy, things could get a lot better. Shore up Rodgers' blind side and we'll see more downfield passing instead of so much stuff thrown behind the line.

Ageed. 2 keys left to this season. Sneak into playoffs. Have a fully healthy OL of Bak, Jenkins, Myers, Runyan, Yosh when we get there.

[bobblehead]

A lot of Gutebag's questionable picks make the duds list for me

WYATT.....on a run Defense that's a sieve, the dude is playing so poorly he only got on the field for 10 dam snaps and did nothing
WALKER..Extreme talent with little production....perhaps that is on the DC
STOKES...Hate to say it, but he's not taking a step forward this year and his overall play seems to be going the wrong way from last year
SAVAGE...If you are a safety drafted in round one, you need to make some plays. I liked Savage at times; he's playing poorly at this point
GARY.......Pretty invisible. He's still a stud overall in my book (unlike the other 4 Gutebag draft picks listed first) but he was not on this game
RUN DEFENSE.....Have we really shut down anybody ? If we somehow squak into the playoffs, it's one and done if we can't stop the run

STUDS
Aaron Jones, our best offensive player
The Dubmeister- Great catch on a throw that was not that great
Backmeister - Would be great to see him string several games played in a row
Alexander -Showed some fire and backed it up

From PFF grades on defense:

1. CB Jaire Alexander: 90.8
2. DL TJ Slaton: 76.2
3. LB Quay Walker: 75.3
4. DL Jarran Reed: 71.1
5. DL Devonte Wyatt: 69.6

Wyatt, over 10 snaps, earned a solid run-defense grade.

I'll say this (edit because it got cut off). Wyatt got in the game because we were bleeding run yards. When he got on the field it improved.

[bobblehead]

^ Bretsky hit the nail on the head as usual. How bad is Wyatt that he cannot get on the field. Did he just royally miss on that one? I thought he'd be a beast from day one since he is like 26 or something carzy.

Good god, he turned 24 right before the draft. He is not 26 and won't be until right before the 2024 season. And honestly he is a victim of having a really talented DL. You will be loving that pick in a season or 2.

[Jaire]

Ageed. 2 keys left to this season. Sneak into playoffs. Have a fully healthy OL of Bak, Jenkins, Myers, Runyan, Yosh when we get there.

(And healthy receivers. It's ridiculous: top four receivers injured/ out / hobbled.)

But agreed................... that's why AR has NOT LOST HOPE, but he has also said it will take (injury) luck.

[Jaire]

As usual, we watched different games. Tom had TWO bad snaps in the game. Exactly 2. PFF had Tom with the 4th best grade on offense.

As the former Packer Linemen have been chatting about on Twitter, there's pass pro and there's pass pro. It's not the same if you get help, and not the same if the ball's out in 1.5 seconds. Tom can't handle a bull rush. If he gets some sand in his pants he may be very good in the future, but right now Jenkins needs to get back to his former self. He was a late scratch; so hopefully Jenkins is back next week. PFF has nothing to say about getting help or about how LONG those linemen need to hold. We all remember 2020: Rodgers was hardly sacked AND had all day to throw.

[Bretsky]

Good god, he turned 24 right before the draft. He is not 26 and won't be until right before the 2024 season. And honestly he is a victim of having a really talented DL. You will be loving that pick in a season or 2.



Perhaps they will get way better; but this really talented DL has been shitty against the run pretty much all season

[bobblehead]

As the former Packer Linemen have been chatting about on Twitter, there's pass pro and there's pass pro. It's not the same if you get help, and not the same if the ball's out in 1.5 seconds. Tom can't handle a bull rush. If he gets some sand in his pants he may be very good in the future, but right now Jenkins needs to get back to his former self. He was a late scratch; so hopefully Jenkins is back next week. PFF has nothing to say about getting help or about how LONG those linemen need to hold. We all remember 2020: Rodgers was hardly sacked AND had all day to throw.

Tom can't handle a bull rush playing LT and that is why he got help. He does just fine from the interior. He got blown up 2x, and one was a run play.

[bobblehead]

Perhaps they will get way better; but this really talented DL has been shitty against the run pretty much all season

Nah, our MLB dynamic duo has not been good.

[Jaire]

Tom can't handle a bull rush playing LT and that is why he got help. He does just fine from the interior. He got blown up 2x, and one was a run play.

I didn't look at his play this game, just last. That is good news, esp for the future.

[bobblehead]

I didn't look at his play this game, just last. That is good news, esp for the future.

If you want to feel good, just realize that he didn't practice at LT all summer, but the team felt he was the best option when Bak suddenly flared up. Not reshuffling things, not someone else....Him.

[call_me_ishmael]

Nah, our MLB dynamic duo has not been good.

I wonder if they're stuck with the expensive MLB. He kinda stinks this year. Definitely not worth the money. Probably a two year and we'll see deal.

[RashanGary]

Tom will be fine next year. He’s got a feel for the game. Just needs weight and strength. Even 5-7 pounds and some strength will make him average.

Sean Rhyan might pan out too.