Fed up

[GutesBrain]

Gute can't draft, and can't construct a roster. Le Fleur can't maintain discipline. Barry is lost. It all starts at the top, with Murphy. Big changes are needed.

[Vincenzo]

Ahhh, join the Club.

[th87]

Was thinking of starting a similar thread.

It's really sinking in how poorly the FO has mismanaged the gift of Rodgers, and now that window has closed. With a whimper.

Idiots. All of them. It's all about who you know in the management ranks. Talent and intelligence are distant seconds.

Just one deadline trade could've gotten us multiple SBs. Marshawn Lynch for example. But no, can't do it, because TT couldn't give up the right to draft Alex Green. Handed Seattle their run instead.

It's honestly criminal how they squandered Rodgers' career. He made them rich, and they'd be collecting unemployment if not for him. They should be run out of Green Bay.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Was thinking of starting a similar thread.

It's really sinking in how poorly the FO has mismanaged the gift of Rodgers, and now that window has closed. With a whimper.

Idiots. All of them. It's all about who you know in the management ranks. Talent and intelligence are distant seconds.

Just one deadline trade could've gotten us multiple SBs. Marshawn Lynch for example. But no, can't do it, because TT couldn't give up the right to draft Alex Green. Handed Seattle their run instead.

It's honestly criminal how they squandered Rodgers' career. He made them rich, and they'd be collecting unemployment if not for him. They should be run out of Green Bay.

And now we must start to think of the odds of finding another HoF Quarterback within our lifetimes, after having two in a row, especially with current management..

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Was thinking of starting a similar thread.

It's really sinking in how poorly the FO has mismanaged the gift of Rodgers, and now that window has closed. With a whimper.

Idiots. All of them. It's all about who you know in the management ranks. Talent and intelligence are distant seconds.

Just one deadline trade could've gotten us multiple SBs. Marshawn Lynch for example. But no, can't do it, because TT couldn't give up the right to draft Alex Green. Handed Seattle their run instead.

It's honestly criminal how they squandered Rodgers' career. He made them rich, and they'd be collecting unemployment if not for him. They should be run out of Green Bay.

Word.

[run pMc]

It's all about who you know in the coaching ranks. Talent and intelligence are distant seconds.

FIFY

Gute isn't going anywhere. He just signed an extension and has assembled a roster that on paper looks pretty good. He's not above criticism however.

[bobblehead]

Gute can't draft, and can't construct a roster. Le Fleur can't maintain discipline. Barry is lost. It all starts at the top, with Murphy. Big changes are needed.

Great first post. Where were you to bitch about these clowns when we won 39 games in 3 seasons?

[texaspackerbacker]

Finally a couple of sensible voices the last two posts.

Yeah, 39 wins in 3 seasons is pretty damn good. The Love blunder and generally not maximizing things are negatives for Gutekunst, and arguably Aaron Rodgers gets the lion's share of credit, but no way Gutekunst is all that bad.

[Tony Oday]

I think that the front office has done an ok job, they are decent enough at drafting and put together a team that used to win. The problem is they had a plan and it didn't work then they doubled down and didn't try to fix it when they could have attempted a fix.

My hope is that the FO has the ability to go all in next year, solidify the O-Line, get two WRs and a new safety.

[Sparkey]

Was thinking of starting a similar thread.

It's really sinking in how poorly the FO has mismanaged the gift of Rodgers, and now that window has closed. With a whimper.

Idiots. All of them. It's all about who you know in the management ranks. Talent and intelligence are distant seconds.

Just one deadline trade could've gotten us multiple SBs. Marshawn Lynch for example. But no, can't do it, because TT couldn't give up the right to draft Alex Green. Handed Seattle their run instead.

It's honestly criminal how they squandered Rodgers' career. He made them rich, and they'd be collecting unemployment if not for him. They should be run out of Green Bay.

He has played in 5 NFC Championship games with a record of 1-4. He has has some bad luck, but its not like he has not had opportunities. Same number as Favre.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/brett-favre-career-nfc-championship-game-stats FAVRE

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/aaron-rodgers-career-nfc-championship-game-stats RODGERS

Just perusing that stats above, Favre was the better qb than Rodgers in NFC Championship games ( w/l records are the same )

[call_me_ishmael]

Great first post. Where were you to bitch about these clowns when we won 39 games in 3 seasons?

I think it's not super unusual to be very successful early in the tenure. People get lazier and more complacent after they've had some success and been around awhile. It'll be interesting to see if he can get his drafting groove back. 2020 and 2021 drafts are looking really bad right now. Like TT mid 2010s bad. AKA horrible.

[bobblehead]

I think that the front office has done an ok job, they are decent enough at drafting and put together a team that used to win. The problem is they had a plan and it didn't work then they doubled down and didn't try to fix it when they could have attempted a fix.

My hope is that the FO has the ability to go all in next year, solidify the O-Line, get two WRs and a new safety.

They won't need 2 WR next year. The 3 rookies will have a year in the system. Maybe a good veteran slot would be a plus, especially if he can return.

We have 3 straight 13 win seasons and this year the storm hit. Devante decided he wouldn't stay for any price. Bak has been in and out of the lineup (although he is playing at a high level when he does play which gives me hope). Jenkins hasn't fully recovered.

So those 2 factors have really hurt our offense. That in turn has put too much pressure on the defense and Rodgers.

Over the years we have been victims of success. This makes 2x (3 maybe if you count Khalil Mack) that the Pack has been outbid for a trade because our offer of picks come too late in the round. Shit happens. I look forward to things gelling as we win 5 or 6 out of the next 7 against the "tough part" of our schedule. Hopefully this year we peak at just the right time. As I said before, not like it would be the first time a team didn't look good early and the put it together at just the right time.

[bobblehead]

I think it's not super unusual to be very successful early in the tenure. People get lazier and more complacent after they've had some success and been around awhile. It'll be interesting to see if he can get his drafting groove back. 2020 and 2021 drafts are looking really bad right now. Like TT mid 2010s bad. AKA horrible.

I disagree. 2020 will be decided by Jordan Love, but without that first we landed 1 starter 2 contributors and 2 more still on the roster that contribute some. 2021 landed 2 starters, 2 contributors and a guy who was traded for a similar pick. Every other guy is still rostered and only in their second year.

[run pMc]

They won't need 2 WR next year. The 3 rookies will have a year in the system. Maybe a good veteran slot would be a plus, especially if he can return.

We have 3 straight 13 win seasons and this year the storm hit. Devante decided he wouldn't stay for any price. Bak has been in and out of the lineup (although he is playing at a high level when he does play which gives me hope). Jenkins hasn't fully recovered.

So those 2 factors have really hurt our offense. That in turn has put too much pressure on the defense and Rodgers.

Over the years we have been victims of success. This makes 2x (3 maybe if you count Khalil Mack) that the Pack has been outbid for a trade because our offer of picks come too late in the round. Shit happens. I look forward to things gelling as we win 5 or 6 out of the next 7 against the "tough part" of our schedule. Hopefully this year we peak at just the right time. As I said before, not like it would be the first time a team didn't look good early and the put it together at just the right time.

I agree with the general substance of this. They will need a couple of WRs, whether in FA or draft. I don't believe for a second they bring back Cobb, Lazard, Watkins and Amari Rodgers. At most 2 of those players will be back, meaning there will be spots on the roster. No, Juwann Winfree probably isn't getting one. He's JAG.

They have had a number of things go wrong on them this year, more than perhaps the law of averages would suggest with
- injuries (Bahk, Jenkins, the WRs),
- coaching (not running the ball consistently, Joe Barry),
- execution (missed tackles, poor communication, bad blocking, dropped passes, bad QB play, Amari Rodgers returning punts),
- and what I'll call bad luck (inopportune penalties, dropped interceptions, bad snaps)

They have yet to play a complete game on offense or defense; they play a good half and disappear. Maybe they need a year for some of the younger players to click. Maybe they need more stability on the OL, or a new DC. There isn't one single silver bullet.
At some point they have to play well for all 4 quarters of a game. And yet they're one game out of a wildcard spot! I won't play the if-only game, but the margin for error is virtually nonexistent for this team. If they can execute better they will start winning some games.

[call_me_ishmael]

I disagree. 2020 will be decided by Jordan Love, but without that first we landed 1 starter 2 contributors and 2 more still on the roster that contribute some. 2021 landed 2 starters, 2 contributors and a guy who was traded for a similar pick. Every other guy is still rostered and only in their second year.

If he's a HOFer, then sure. If he's an above average starter and fringe pro bowler - nah, 2020 draft will still stink. JRJ is the only starter and he's mediocre at best. AJ Dillon is a contributor but not a great one (clearly regressed this year). Everyone else is gone or sucks. That is a truly horrible draft.

2021 looks better than 2020 but still pretty bad. Too early to truly judge, next year is make or break. I guess I just don't think Myers is ever going to be anywhere close to Linsley or a solid guy. Kinda seems oft injured and more like JC Tretter - lots of unrealized potential. The CB seems to have regressed this year.

[call_me_ishmael]

https://twitter.com/PackersNotes/status/1587821489004417024


Ted's first 5 drafts produced Aaron Rodgers, Nick Collins, Greg Jennings, A.J. Hawk, James Jones, Mason Crosby, Jordy Nelson, Jermichael Finley, Josh Sitton, B.J. Raji, Clay Matthews, and T.J. Lang... 9 Pro Bowl players... Don't need to make trades when drafts are this good.

Pretty damn impressive. Would be two HOF if not for Nick's injury.

[Bretsky]

I disagree. 2020 will be decided by Jordan Love, but without that first we landed 1 starter 2 contributors and 2 more still on the roster that contribute some. 2021 landed 2 starters, 2 contributors and a guy who was traded for a similar pick. Every other guy is still rostered and only in their second year.


I don't get this positive spin. Here are all 10 picks. I assume we gained a few picks due to players losses


JORDAN LOVE- Round 1 AND round 4 Pick - Tee Higgins or Pittman anyone ?
AJ DILLON-- Round 2 Decent player, but is he the RB you draft in round 2
JOSIAH DEGUARA Round 3 BLA....aka...Just a guy. He's a nice value in round 5

NOBODY Round 4 See Round 1 Gutebag trade
Kamal Martin Round 5 I honestly thought he might be good, but he's gone
Jon Runyan Round 6 AWESOME pick cause he was me the draft contest. Solid value pick here as we get an ok starter in round 6
JAKE HANSON Round 6 Ok Backup I think
SIMON STAPANIAK Round 6 Gone
VERNON SCOTT Round 7 Gone
JONATHAN GARVIN Round 7 Stlll on Roster, I think


10 Draft Picks

AJ Dillon is OK, but RB's don't get drafted in round one anymore. Often the elite RB's are R2. I would not consider Dillon to be elite. Maybe somebody down the road

Runyan was a good pick in round 6 .

For 10 draft picks, this falls very very short in my book, CAPTAIN OBVIOUS POINT- DRAFT LOADED WITH WR'S. GUTE FAILED TO GET ONE

[Jaire]

CAPTAIN OBVIOUS POINT- DRAFT LOADED WITH WR'S. GUTE FAILED TO GET ONE

I was not big on drafting WR the year before, but 2020 was a weak draft and WR heavy. And you have no WRs under contract after next year.

Strongly agree with rest, though I would emphasize that Dillon was RB3 as well.

[bobblehead]

https://twitter.com/PackersNotes/status/1587821489004417024



Pretty damn impressive. Would be two HOF if not for Nick's injury.

Yet people still bitched about TTs drafts. How about Gutes first 5 drafts? Ted got a little lucky that Rodgers slid to him, and maybe Gutes reached for Love (time will tell). Otherwise Jaire, Gary, Savage, Jenkins, Dillon, Runyan, Stokes, Myers, and this years class.

Now its WAY to early to compare drafts over a decade ago to the most recent 5, but I could easily see Gutes drafts being just as good....realize your list has had entire careers play out, Gutes has had at most 4 full seasons of a career.

And your list includes AJ Hawk and a kicker. Also a journey man WR in Jones, and a never was in Finely. I actually believe if that is the extent of the TT list, then Gutes will rival it easy when the final story is told. I intentionally left this years class off the list, but either Watson or Doubs could have a Jones career. Walker could EASILY surpass the downfield tackling machine that Hawk was. Tom could easily end up with a sitton like career.

[bobblehead]

For perspective here is Teds First draft and Gutes first:

1 24 24 Aaron Rodgers Quarterback California
2 19 51 Nick Collins Safety Bethune-Cookman
2 26 58 Terrence Murphy Wide Receiver Texas A&M
4 14 115 Marviel Underwood Safety San Diego State
4 24 125 Brady Poppinga Linebacker BYU
5 7 143 Junius Coston Guard North Carolina A&T
5 31 167 Mike Hawkins Cornerback Oklahoma
6 6 180 Michael Montgomery Defensive End Texas A&M
6 21 195 Craig Bragg Wide Receiver UCLA
7 31 245 Kurt Campbell Linebacker Albany
7 32 246 Will Whitticker Guard Michigan State

1 18 18 Jaire Alexander Cornerback Louisville
2 13 45 Josh Jackson Cornerback Iowa
3 24 88 Oren Burks Linebacker Vanderbilt
4 33 133 J'Mon Moore Wide Receiver Missouri
5 1 138 Cole Madison Guard Washington State
5 35 172 J. K. Scott Punter Alabama
5 37 174 Marquez Valdes-Scantling Wide Receiver South Florida
6 33 207 Equanimeous St. Brown Wide Receiver Notre Dame
7 14 232 James Looney Defensive End California
7 21 239 Hunter Bradley Long Snapper Mississippi State
7 30 248 Kendall Donnerson Linebacker Southeast Missouri State

[RashanGary]

Odds aren’t as bad as you think finding a HOF QB

Right now Rodgers, Brady and maybe Mahommes, Allen, Herbert, Wilson, Lamar, Burrow.

That’s 8 of 32 teams with HOF QB play or 1 of 4. So we have about a 25% chance to land another.

[Jaire]

Odds aren’t as bad as you think finding a HOF QB

Right now Rodgers, Brady and maybe Mahommes, Allen, Herbert, xxxxx, Lamar, Burrow.

That’s 8 of 32 teams with HOF QB play or 1 of 4. So we have about a 25% chance to land another.


There was a drought of around 10 years at QB. Those five are really good, esp Mahommes and Allen. Not as easy as that. We could see another drought. Also, coaching and FO can make or break a QB: I don't think GB is in the top ten in coaching or FO any more. And that is the real weakness on the team. It has more talent than many years past. Just think: we had Wynn, Green, Zombo, and Walden for one of the best stretches this defense has played the last 20 years. This D has more talent than that squad. A coach change and I have real hope for this year, tbh

[bobblehead]

Odds aren’t as bad as you think finding a HOF QB

Right now Rodgers, Brady and maybe Mahommes, Allen, Herbert, Wilson, Lamar, Burrow.

That’s 8 of 32 teams with HOF QB play or 1 of 4. So we have about a 25% chance to land another.

I'll eat my hat of Wilson or Lamar Make the hall. A long ways to go to be projecting Allen, Herbert and Burrow into Canton as well. And Brady is past his sell by date.

At this exact moment there are 3 elite QBs in the NFL that make a huge difference. Allen, Maholmes and Burrow. All the rest need a LOT of talent around them. Hell, maybe even those guys do. We just saw Burrow without Chase present.

[Jaire]

I'll eat my hat of Wilson or Lamar Make the hall. A long ways to go to be projecting Allen, Herbert and Burrow into Canton as well. And Brady is past his sell by date.

At this exact moment there are 3 elite QBs in the NFL that make a huge difference. Allen, Maholmes and Burrow. All the rest need a LOT of talent around them. Hell, maybe even those guys do. We just saw Burrow without Chase present.

Yes. They have a lot of talent, all of them but Herbert and the Chargers (per usual) are dealing with injuries. I don't care who it is, no great QB has ever done it without the talent, especially in the post season. But all those guys can be HoF with talent. The only guy I don't know is Jackson, only because I have seen so little of him myself.

edit: I did not mean to include Wilson. His shot is done; I don't see him turning it around.

[Fritz]

Man, if the Packers could've landed Hockenson, they'd have had an instant bona fide pass-catcher and blocker. I know it wouldn't make sene financially, but on the field he'd have made a world of difference, I think, if the O-line can get its woes straightened out.

[run pMc]

Is Wilson better than Eli Manning? Matt Stafford? Why do people talk about those two as being fringe HOF QBs? Wilson was better than either of them.
The Broncos O is a mess right now but I think it's coaching. Well, that and Wilson being allowed to go off the deep end. These QBs turn into weirdo divas after some success.

You can say 8 of 32 QBs are HOF or have HOF potential, but part of that requires having a draft pick high enough and getting lucky with the player available. Lots of top 10 QB flame-outs drafted in the last 10 years... some of them still hanging around the league.
Teams have to keep spending high picks until they hit on a QB and then you do everything you can to keep them, even if it wrecks your cap. The value of a franchise QB is outsized and hard to overstate (if they are performing as such) in the modern NFL.

[run pMc]

Man, if the Packers could've landed Hockenson, they'd have had an instant bona fide pass-catcher and blocker. I know it wouldn't make sene financially, but on the field he'd have made a world of difference, I think, if the O-line can get its woes straightened out.

Would also have shaped their long-term future at TE. Tonyan is a FA, behind him there's Big Dog, Deguara and Tyler Davis. They'll need to draft and/or develop more TEs soon, and that takes time.

[run pMc]

Just think: we had Wynn, Green, Zombo, and Walden for one of the best stretches this defense has played the last 20 years. This D has more talent than that squad. A coach change and I have real hope for this year, tbh

They also had in-his-prime-Tramon, Woodson, Nick Collins, pre-HGH Clay III, Cullen Jenkins, BJ Raji and Ryan Pickett. And a promising UDFA named Sam Shields.

I agree the D has a lot of talent and a DC change would help them. I also think a year of seasoning for Quay will help, and doing something about Darnell Savage.

[Jaire]

They also had in-his-prime-Tramon, Woodson, Nick Collins, pre-HGH Clay III, Cullen Jenkins, BJ Raji and Ryan Pickett. And a promising UDFA named Sam Shields.

I agree the D has a lot of talent and a DC change would help them. I also think a year of seasoning for Quay will help, and doing something about Darnell Savage.

I'm not dissing that 2010 defense at all. It was amazing how they elevated that talent. AND Capers maximized the talent in the backend which might have been best in the league. The talent on this team is being squandered, and I remember thinking at the time, "how are they going to fit together Douglas, Stokes, and Ja," when they signed Douglas. There still doesn't seem to be a plan, and I really sense those guys are frustrated with what's being asked of them.

I just saw some more pics of Barry's defensive alignments, and I'm just scratching & scratching my head at what they are doing. It seems set up for failure. This d can be a lot better just in strategy: I'd roll the dice and run it very aggressive. Just put a lot on the cb's: these guys are competitors and shine when challenged. Put it all on them. You will lose some, but at least you lose swinging and maximinizing the talent. I can't blame that strategy. Right now they are not maximizing the talent, especially against subpar QBs.

[Mayhem]

Is Wilson better than Eli Manning? Matt Stafford? Why do people talk about those two as being fringe HOF QBs? Wilson was better than either of them.
The Broncos O is a mess right now but I think it's coaching. Well, that and Wilson being allowed to go off the deep end. These QBs turn into weirdo divas after some success.

You can say 8 of 32 QBs are HOF or have HOF potential, but part of that requires having a draft pick high enough and getting lucky with the player available. Lots of top 10 QB flame-outs drafted in the last 10 years... some of them still hanging around the league.
Teams have to keep spending high picks until they hit on a QB and then you do everything you can to keep them, even if it wrecks your cap. The value of a franchise QB is outsized and hard to overstate (if they are performing as such) in the modern NFL.
Maybe people think if Joe Namath made the HOF with his 65.5 passer rating, that Eli and Matt would make it?

[bobblehead]

Maybe people think if Joe Namath made the HOF with his 65.5 passer rating, that Eli and Matt would make it?

Yes, lets compare stats from the 60s to stats today. If that is your metric Put Lynn Dickey in yesterday!!

[run pMc]

I'm not old enough to remember Namath in his prime, I vaguely remember him bounce passing throws at the end of his career. There are a few 'unworthies' in the Hall, it's unclear to me if Namath is one.

IMO Stafford does not belong in the HOF. A lot of his stats were on bad DET teams where he had to throw in basically extended garbage time. He won his SB ring on the backs of Cooper Kupp and Aaron Donald.
Manning is interesting because he won multiple SBs but he wasn't a great regular season QB. He has a lot of counting stats but that's more a testament to longevity than greatness. I think he belongs in the Hall of Very Good, but not the HOF. He was extremely streaky, and those Giants teams won because they were so good in trenches (especially the DL).

The passing game is such that you have to evaluate QBs for the hall differently I think. Even a shitty QB now would look great statistically 30 years ago.

[Fritz]

I was a kid in 1971, just turned eleven, and I was watching pre-season football (my parents were home so I couldn't get to my old man's porn stash). The Jets were playing the Lions, and I remember the play in which Broadway Joe tore up his knee. He was trying to tackle Mike Lucci, who'd intercepted a pass.

That was the beginning of the end of Joe Willie. Those days, knee injuries were pretty much a death knell. Namath was still only 28 at the time. He hung on and hung on afterward, but was a shell of himself - thus the lousy career passer rating.

But in his prime, yeah, he was something else.

I'm not a huge Stafford fan. He was good in Detroit, but not HOF good by any stretch. And really, he didn't play well in the playoffs for the Rams, outside that final drive where he just kept throwing to Cooper Kupp. Stafford threw a bunch of picks in the playoffs. A bunch.

[texaspackerbacker]

This will be my last Packer post this season unless or until the Packers win three straight. This season has completely turned to shit, and prospects of it turning around are pretty grim.

The offensive line is downright pathetic, but it's been near that bad for most of the Favre and Rodgers eras, and the Packers have won big time anyway. Our defense is talented but horribly handled in a lot of ways. Barry needs to go. I've always praised LaFleur, but his game planning and decision making this season seems questionable at best. I've always thought and said that LaFleur's best quality was that he subordinated his ego and went with Aaron Rodgers as the primary reason for his and the Packers success. Well, this year, has fallen short, and LaFleur has been exposed. As for Rodgers' rotten season which just got geometrically worse today, my theory is that Rodgers thrived despite the lame-assed O Line, but this year either he is not the QB he used to be, or the lack of decent receivers AND the O Line mess are just too much to compensate for.

Next year and beyond, either we will have Rodgers or we won't. If he is still in Green Bay for 1, 2, 3, or more years, I remain confident that just a little bit of fine tuning will get the Packers offense back on top - hopefully with Barry gone and a much improved D, but probably even without improved D. If Rodgers is gone next season - or probably whenever he is gone, I fully expect the team to be a complete disaster - much like today's game and worse than the way the season has gone before today.

It ain't much consolation, but it's been a pretty shitty year for a lot of other predicted to good teams too.

At least we've got the Bucks, and hopefully the Badger football season is back on track as well as hopefully a great year for Badger basketball, not too mention that unmentionable topic I will continue to post about in FYI.

[Teamcheez1]

You certainly wear rose colored glasses in regards to Packer football and are quite the homer for Wisconsin sports. I appreciate your posts nonetheless.

[Rastak]

This will be my last Packer post this season unless or until the Packers win three straight. This season has completely turned to shit, and prospects of it turning around are pretty grim.

The offensive line is downright pathetic, but it's been near that bad for most of the Favre and Rodgers eras, and the Packers have won big time anyway. Our defense is talented but horribly handled in a lot of ways. Barry needs to go. I've always praised LaFleur, but his game planning and decision making this season seems questionable at best. I've always thought and said that LaFleur's best quality was that he subordinated his ego and went with Aaron Rodgers as the primary reason for his and the Packers success. Well, this year, has fallen short, and LaFleur has been exposed. As for Rodgers' rotten season which just got geometrically worse today, my theory is that Rodgers thrived despite the lame-assed O Line, but this year either he is not the QB he used to be, or the lack of decent receivers AND the O Line mess are just too much to compensate for.

Next year and beyond, either we will have Rodgers or we won't. If he is still in Green Bay for 1, 2, 3, or more years, I remain confident that just a little bit of fine tuning will get the Packers offense back on top - hopefully with Barry gone and a much improved D, but probably even without improved D. If Rodgers is gone next season - or probably whenever he is gone, I fully expect the team to be a complete disaster - much like today's game and worse than the way the season has gone before today.

It ain't much consolation, but it's been a pretty shitty year for a lot of other predicted to good teams too.

At least we've got the Bucks, and hopefully the Badger football season is back on track as well as hopefully a great year for Badger basketball, not too mention that unmentionable topic I will continue to post about in FYI.


When the going gets tough, the tough get going.

[Jereamiah]

I made a couple points earlier this season. Had a couple takes, was basically shined on because it was my "5th post" or some shit and they were looking forward to my next, or whatever. But here's the thing: Ya need an owner. Not that stupid ass "Im an owner" shit. The org has no direction. They tried to flex with the Love pick, ventured out. Making moves. Knowing Rodgers was nearing his end. But then 12 gets MVP. Instead of sticking with their plan with Love, they listened to all the MVP "greatest QB EVER" shit and caved on that. But not totally. They half-assed it. If they were going to put it all in on Rodgers? Make some WR picks this last draft. Early. DO SOMETHING TO GO WITH THAT DECISION. But they dont. THEN, as this season progressed, they make (reportedly) couple half assed moves at the trade deadline but to no avail. Whats it going to be? Anywaqy, everyone knows 12 is a giant d-bag, and that management is waffling. It's like the organization is rudderless. Maybe 5 people in a room throwing darts at a board trying to decide what to do. Get a real owner... LOL

[call_me_ishmael]

Yet people still bitched about TTs drafts. How about Gutes first 5 drafts? Ted got a little lucky that Rodgers slid to him, and maybe Gutes reached for Love (time will tell). Otherwise Jaire, Gary, Savage, Jenkins, Dillon, Runyan, Stokes, Myers, and this years class.

Now its WAY to early to compare drafts over a decade ago to the most recent 5, but I could easily see Gutes drafts being just as good....realize your list has had entire careers play out, Gutes has had at most 4 full seasons of a career.

And your list includes AJ Hawk and a kicker. Also a journey man WR in Jones, and a never was in Finely. I actually believe if that is the extent of the TT list, then Gutes will rival it easy when the final story is told. I intentionally left this years class off the list, but either Watson or Doubs could have a Jones career. Walker could EASILY surpass the downfield tackling machine that Hawk was. Tom could easily end up with a sitton like career.

TT either go unhealthy or lazy, because the average draft quality diminished big time from the super bowl onward. I did a comprehensive analysis on this. TT was an all-timer early in his tenure though.

I would be shocked if his first 5 draft rival Ted's. I would be shocked if his *best* 5 draft rival Teds best 5. I don't hate Gooter or anything but to me it's pretty clear he is a good GM but in different ways.

[call_me_ishmael]

Odds aren’t as bad as you think finding a HOF QB

Right now Rodgers, Brady and maybe Mahommes, Allen, Herbert, Wilson, Lamar, Burrow.

That’s 8 of 32 teams with HOF QB play or 1 of 4. So we have about a 25% chance to land another.

I think the odds that Herbert, Lamar, Allen, and Burrow all make it is very, very, very slim. Russell Wilson - man IDK if he is a HOFer. If he is, it's barely and the bar is clearly too low in that case.

[red]

I made a couple points earlier this season. Had a couple takes, was basically shined on because it was my "5th post" or some shit and they were looking forward to my next, or whatever. But here's the thing: Ya need an owner. Not that stupid ass "Im an owner" shit. The org has no direction. They tried to flex with the Love pick, ventured out. Making moves. Knowing Rodgers was nearing his end. But then 12 gets MVP. Instead of sticking with their plan with Love, they listened to all the MVP "greatest QB EVER" shit and caved on that. But not totally. They half-assed it. If they were going to put it all in on Rodgers? Make some WR picks this last draft. Early. DO SOMETHING TO GO WITH THAT DECISION. But they dont. THEN, as this season progressed, they make (reportedly) couple half assed moves at the trade deadline but to no avail. Whats it going to be? Anywaqy, everyone knows 12 is a giant d-bag, and that management is waffling. It's like the organization is rudderless. Maybe 5 people in a room throwing darts at a board trying to decide what to do. Get a real owner... LOL

its a thought i've had over the years too

right now we pretty much have a guy who was appointed "owner" for life.

who is there to fire him if he fucks up? not a single person. he gets all the joys and all the say of a real owner, without actually having to spend a cent of his money, in fact i'm sure he gets paid a pretty penny to play owner.

now he is doing some good things by putting the team in good shape financially with the whole packerland thing, or whatever its called. but from what i've heard, he's completely fucking over local businesses to do it

and who is there to hold him accountable? no one.

if this team turns into the team from the 70's and 80s then no amount of outside development is gonna save it

[King Friday]

The accountability question is one that needs to become entrenched in those that cover the Packers in the media. The team has had a wild card in their poker hands for 3+ decades due to having HOF caliber QBs. Things changed quickly in the 1970s when the Bart Starr era ended. It would seem we are rapidly moving toward that again, and is Mark Murphy giving any thought to that…or is his sole focus on bottom line profitability? He needs to be pressed on the specifics of what he is doing to ensure football remains the focus, not business.

[Bretsky]

This will be my last Packer post this season unless or until the Packers win three straight. This season has completely turned to shit, and prospects of it turning around are pretty grim.

The offensive line is downright pathetic, but it's been near that bad for most of the Favre and Rodgers eras, and the Packers have won big time anyway. Our defense is talented but horribly handled in a lot of ways. Barry needs to go. I've always praised LaFleur, but his game planning and decision making this season seems questionable at best. I've always thought and said that LaFleur's best quality was that he subordinated his ego and went with Aaron Rodgers as the primary reason for his and the Packers success. Well, this year, has fallen short, and LaFleur has been exposed. As for Rodgers' rotten season which just got geometrically worse today, my theory is that Rodgers thrived despite the lame-assed O Line, but this year either he is not the QB he used to be, or the lack of decent receivers AND the O Line mess are just too much to compensate for.

Next year and beyond, either we will have Rodgers or we won't. If he is still in Green Bay for 1, 2, 3, or more years, I remain confident that just a little bit of fine tuning will get the Packers offense back on top - hopefully with Barry gone and a much improved D, but probably even without improved D. If Rodgers is gone next season - or probably whenever he is gone, I fully expect the team to be a complete disaster - much like today's game and worse than the way the season has gone before today.

It ain't much consolation, but it's been a pretty shitty year for a lot of other predicted to good teams too.

At least we've got the Bucks, and hopefully the Badger football season is back on track as well as hopefully a great year for Badger basketball, not too mention that unmentionable topic I will continue to post about in FYI.


YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO LEAVE !!!!!! The ultra homer is not allowed to walk the plank. And if you need 3 straight GB wins we may not see you for several years

PLUS, I need you to stick around for the BUCKS, and BADGERS

Say it with me Tex, you'll feel better..........JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY JIMMY .........

[texaspackerbacker]

I didn't say no Badger, Buck, Brewer posting, just no Packer posting. The negativists are in all their sick glory now. I'll just let whine on like they are so good at. The only way it's several years is if they get their way and Rodgers is gone.

[Bretsky]

I didn't say no Badger, Buck, Brewer posting, just no Packer posting. The negativists are in all their sick glory now. I'll just let whine on like they are so good at. The only way it's several years is if they get their way and Rodgers is gone.

ya; I am so disappointed I'm numb when I watch Green Bay. I'm unable to feel emotion either way. So many things baffle me.

In the end, Tex, and you are going to hate to hear this. The Rodgers era is coming to an end.

We'd be wise to get our next franchise QB in next years draft. I think there are 2 to 3 great ones on their way to the NFL

[bobblehead]

ya; I am so disappointed I'm numb when I watch Green Bay. I'm unable to feel emotion either way. So many things baffle me.

In the end, Tex, and you are going to hate to hear this. The Rodgers era is coming to an end.

We'd be wise to get our next franchise QB in next years draft. I think there are 2 to 3 great ones on their way to the NFL

Ted drafted brohm while we had rodgers. No one says you can't have a backup plan..... Well no one except Aaron Rodgers

[run pMc]

The offensive line is downright pathetic, but it's been near that bad for most of the Favre and Rodgers eras, and the Packers have won big time anyway. Our defense is talented but horribly handled in a lot of ways. Barry needs to go. I've always praised LaFleur, but his game planning and decision making this season seems questionable at best. I've always thought and said that LaFleur's best quality was that he subordinated his ego and went with Aaron Rodgers as the primary reason for his and the Packers success. Well, this year, has fallen short, and LaFleur has been exposed. As for Rodgers' rotten season which just got geometrically worse today, my theory is that Rodgers thrived despite the lame-assed O Line, but this year either he is not the QB he used to be, or the lack of decent receivers AND the O Line mess are just too much to compensate for.

I 100% agree on the defense -- there's plenty of talent but Barry isn't using it right.
Was last year a result of many players having career years (Lowry, Devondre, Rasul)?

I think the OL has been on balance pretty good thru most of the Favre and Rodgers eras. You can't be consistently good on offense without a good OL, and they've had some good running games during that time too.
As for the offense, does this look like a Shanahan offense? All the shotgun and RPO stuff doesn't look like it to me. Lack of pre-snap motion, play action from under center, etc. There's also the theory of whether Gute is drafting for a Shanahan offense but they are running too much McCarthy in their hybrid offense or whatever they call it. Lots of speculation out there.

I also agree that -- unless we absolutely see Rodgers turn into "final year Payton Manning" -- his arm should still be good enough to help win games. I'm worried about where his head is though.
Despite the contract and its expectations, he's not good enough at this stage of his career to carry a team. I think with some help in the passing game and better run/pass balance consistency they could be better.

I think this year they are all but eliminated from the playoffs at this point -- they've lost too many tiebreakers and are 3 games under .500. There's still a lot of games left and I'll be cheering for them. I'm mostly looking at how the young players develop and to see what happens in the offseason. This team will probably look much different.