More Banjo - Packers vs Titans

[call_me_ishmael]

Do yo thang

[Joemailman]

Iitans must have really celebrated on the trip home last night/this morning. Titans OC Todd Downing was arrested for speeding and DUI in Williamson County TN at 4:39 AM.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fh2aOfcXkAAV979?format=jpg&name=900x900

[call_me_ishmael]

Wow, that's crazy and selfish. How stupid.

[Joemailman]

Just some reactions from people who cover the Packers.



Zach Kruse
@zachkruse2

Christian Watson caught 2 TD passes, Quay Walker had a team-high 5 "stops" and JJ Enagbare had a team-high 3 pressures on TNF.

Zach Tom looks like a future starter along OL.

Need Devonte Wyatt to start coming on and Romeo Doubs to get healthy, but 2022 draft class looking ok



Zach Kruse
@zachkruse2

I think the most deflating/frustrating thing from last night was the fact that the Packers couldn't stop one of the worst passing offenses in football AND the Packers couldn't take advantage of a passing defense down to backups of backups.



Zach Kruse
@zachkruse2

Down 27-17 and with the season hanging in the balance, Packers QB Aaron Rodgers went 8/16 for 60 yards on the final four drives against a Titans secondary missing just about everyone.



Andy Herman
@AndyHermanNFL

I’m not sure why anyone would want to promote Jerry Gray to defensive coordinator when his secondary can’t figure out how to communicate for the 10th week in a row. That’d be like promoting Amari Rodgers to starting quarterback after his 7th fumble.



Matt Schneidman
@mattschneidman

The Packers fooled us with their overtime win over the Cowboys.

Turns out they are who we thought they were for the first nine game of the season.

Inconsistent on offense + inconsistent on defense + inconsistent on special teams = a bad football team:

[call_me_ishmael]

I wasn't watching the game too closely. Did Rodgers have good protection four those final four drives? It seems odd that he'd lose his accuracy overnight.

[bobblehead]

I wasn't watching the game too closely. Did Rodgers have good protection four those final four drives? It seems odd that he'd lose his accuracy overnight.

Rodgers had plenty of time and support. He was bad. End of story.

I know good old cleft crusty used to keyboard scream at people who would say the team looked flat. "YOU CAN'T TELL IF A TEAM IS FLAT ON A TV SCREEN". But I'm sorry. Rodgers looks disinterested. I think he has moved on from football, but can't quite figure out how to leave. He got it up for one game against fat Mike, but that was it.

I'm not saying that he couldn't use more help. Clearly if he had more support around him we would be winning more and he probably would be more into it. I'm simply saying this isn't the best Rodgers on the field right now. On the sack that more or less ended it he could have simply taken the snap and run straight up the middle for close to a first down. Would have set up 3rd and 2 or even a first. He stood in the pocket until it collapsed. There was at least one open receiver that I saw.

At times he still flashes what we are used to from him. At times he just looks like football is down his list of priorities.

[Joemailman]

Rodgers is looking a lot like late-career/late season Favre. The difference is that 15 years ago Packers had a GM who knew when it was time to move on.

[Tony Oday]

Rodgers is looking a lot like late-career/late season Favre. The difference is that 15 years ago Packers had a GM who knew when it was time to move on.

Gute knows to move on, he just missed on the trash can that is Love.

[Joemailman]

Gute knows to move on, he just missed on the trash can that is Love.

If he knew it was time to move on, he wouldn't have signed Rodgers to that contract.

[call_me_ishmael]

If he knew it was time to move on, he wouldn't have signed Rodgers to that contract.

I don't know if he really had a choice. Rodgers had all of the leverage. I do think Gooter thought the window would be open this year again.

What do you all think of this plan?

https://twitter.com/DaireCarragher/status/1593643451601637381


Let Rodgers give the Eagles his best shot next Sunday. If they win, keep him in.

If they lose, put him on IR with a fake thumb injury and see what you’ve got in Love for the last 5 games.

I like it, I just don't know that MVP would go for that. On the other hand, if Rodgers has already committed to being back next year, maybe he would for two reasons: 1) better draft equity, 2) getting clarity and a pick for Love, 3) Setting up his friend JL for his role on a diff team next year

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

If he knew it was time to move on, he wouldn't have signed Rodgers to that contract.

And my best guess so far is Gute was wrong..

[Jaire]

Andy Herman and Mike Wahle have some interesting analysis. In their opinion, Rodgers' problems really stem from season long line issues (not this game) and WRs running really really bad routes. Even if they run good routes, he has a hard time trusting them.

To me, he looks sharp a lot of the time. If the WRs are more consistent, you'll see better play from 12. He hasn't lost it, but he is aging. This is the most inconsistent play from his WRs in his career. IMO that falls on coaching, as well as the sloppy defense. They are no longer coaching fundamentals in GB. THAT seems to be Wahle's over all assessment, and Herman has some interesting insight why that is league wide. We are simply not used to this in GB.

And I remember last year, Rodgers insistance on the veteran's really showing the young guys how to be professionals, last year. They lost many of them this year. And the coaches aren't doing it any more. That seems the bottom line. A few teams still do really coach: Miami and the Titans come to mind. Overall it's poor play: something we're not used to in GB.

[Joemailman]

I don't know if he really had a choice. Rodgers had all of the leverage. I do think Gooter thought the window would be open this year again.



He could have traded Rodgers to Denver for multiple picks. If he had, Love would be playing now and they'd be getting an idea of whether Love can be the guy. If he can't, they'd have the draft capital this year to trade up and draft the QB of the future.

[Jaire]

He could have traded Rodgers to Denver for multiple picks. If he had, Love would be playing now and they'd be getting an idea of whether Love can be the guy. If he can't, they'd have the draft capital this year to trade up and draft the QB of the future.

I agree with Wahle. They are worse with any QB not named Rodgers. Route running is still a hot mess.

I don't trust this FO to produce a championship team without AR. HoF calibre QBs do not come around every year, and we've had long droughts in the draft that produce no franchise QBs. See the QBs drafted between 2006 and 2016: Cam, Stafford, Wilson, Luck, and Cousins are the standouts, and I don't think any of those make HoF. We have a few potential Hall of Famers in the recent drafts. I'd stick with AR, even if he falls off. I am not sure he is there yet. Get him a little more help for a change (and a new DC)

And based on what I've seen, I don't think MLF is good enough to do it without someone like AR.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Not making excuses for Butte’s subpar game, but if the German GM wasn’t so incompetent, Allen Fucking Lazard wouldn’t be Packers #1 WR right now. In 2019, no one outside of uncool Pack fans could name 2 Packers WR. The 2019 drafted was loaded with hotshot WRs. The German Shepherd coulda - and shoulda - drafted the two Ole Miss ‘roid bois in DK Metcalf and AJ Brown. Instead, he took 21 Savage, a better rapper than football player, and the Fucking Center, a bum at tackle.

The offense is rhythmless and impotent. That is a reflection of the German Shepherd’s incompetence.

[SudsMcBucky]

I don't know if he really had a choice. Rodgers had all of the leverage. I do think Gooter thought the window would be open this year again.

What do you all think of this plan?

https://twitter.com/DaireCarragher/status/1593643451601637381



I like it, I just don't know that MVP would go for that. On the other hand, if Rodgers has already committed to being back next year, maybe he would for two reasons: 1) better draft equity, 2) getting clarity and a pick for Love, 3) Setting up his friend JL for his role on a diff team next year

Except I don't think it's a FAKE thumb injury. It's pretty clear it's a real issue.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

And, yeah, this game, Butte was more inaccurate than Graham Mertz. But not even the great Tom Brady would be able to climax with the milksops currently playing WRs for the Packers.

And, btw, I am taking a dump at the moment as I compose this post. My feces are are worth more than the chickenshit the Packers currently have at tight end. It ain’t that difficult to find another J-Mike. Unless, of course, the GM is incompetent.

[bobblehead]

I agree with Wahle. They are worse with any QB not named Rodgers. Route running is still a hot mess.

I don't trust this FO to produce a championship team without AR. HoF calibre QBs do not come around every year, and we've had long droughts in the draft that produce no franchise QBs. See the QBs drafted between 2006 and 2016: Cam, Stafford, Wilson, Luck, and Cousins are the standouts, and I don't think any of those make HoF. We have a few potential Hall of Famers in the recent drafts. I'd stick with AR, even if he falls off. I am not sure he is there yet. Get him a little more help for a change (and a new DC)

And based on what I've seen, I don't think MLF is good enough to do it without someone like AR.

There are several flaws in the logic, but I'll simply point out one fact. When MLF was the OC of the Titans Marcus Marriota looked serviceable. After MLF left Marcus lost his job and his a mess in Atlanta right now.

The truth is that as I always say its a complete picture. Most coaches don't win Owls with bad QBs. But good teams with good coaching win with good QBs and solid rosters. Especially if the QB is on a first contract, or if you brought him in after drafting high several years in a row. Guys like Brady, Rodgers, Maholmes....they are in the thick of it every year. With good coaches and average ones. Great coaches are partly a myth. No coach wins with bad talent, and even average coaches can win with elite talent. Bad coaches are NOT a myth. Bad coaches ruin careers and lose even with talent. I have seen enough to be just fine with MLF. He just won more games in 3 seasons than the other coaches. This year has been a mess. Rebuilding the WR room while shuffling the OL every week. Bak and Jenkins throw a wrench in things because you can't really bench Jenkins, and Bak is in and out of the lineup. Then you have to deal with watkins and Cobb getting hurt, Doubs getting hurt, Watson starting the season hurt, then being in and out of the lineup.

Is Rodgers washed up? No, he definitely can still win. But can he carry a hot mess on his shoulders and make the playoffs....no, those days are past. The problem is that we are paying him like he can, and we haven't put enough talent around him due to various reasons.

[Fritz]

He could have traded Rodgers to Denver for multiple picks. If he had, Love would be playing now and they'd be getting an idea of whether Love can be the guy. If he can't, they'd have the draft capital this year to trade up and draft the QB of the future.

I was disappointed it was Seattle trading Wilson and not Green Bay trading Rodgers to Denver for the picks...

Denver has not fared well this year and if they had Rodgers I don't think they'd be much better. Conversely, I'm not sure Green Bay would be all that much worse with Love behind center. And they'd have a bunch of picks.

Gute made the wrong choice. It's an understandable choice, for sure, but it was the wrong choice.

There was one play in particular in the Titans game that says it all: Rodgers was back, looking, looking, pocket started to push in on him, and he just curled over, ready to take a sack - but no one came to sack him, so he scrambled forward. But he was clearly ready to take the non-existent sack.

He's looking older and older every game.

[Bretsky]

Andy Herman and Mike Wahle have some interesting analysis. In their opinion, Rodgers' problems really stem from season long line issues (not this game) and WRs running really really bad routes. Even if they run good routes, he has a hard time trusting them.

To me, he looks sharp a lot of the time. If the WRs are more consistent, you'll see better play from 12. He hasn't lost it, but he is aging. This is the most inconsistent play from his WRs in his career. IMO that falls on coaching, as well as the sloppy defense. They are no longer coaching fundamentals in GB. THAT seems to be Wahle's over all assessment, and Herman has some interesting insight why that is league wide. We are simply not used to this in GB.

And I remember last year, Rodgers insistance on the veteran's really showing the young guys how to be professionals, last year. They lost many of them this year. And the coaches aren't doing it any more. That seems the bottom line. A few teams still do really coach: Miami and the Titans come to mind. Overall it's poor play: something we're not used to in GB.



I'll take Tauscher and TJ Lang's analysis over Wahl's any day. Tauscher has been a Rodgers apologist all year long til the last week Even Tauscher has went luck warm on Rodgers now. He admits of a lot of the routes are being runn poorly; but he's finally acknowleding Rodgers is missing wide open guys and often even when he hits them the passes are off. Maybe it's his injury; maybe it's his decreasing play. Who knows. But our offense is a f'cked up mess and imo Rodgers needs to share some of the blame

And for the record, I don't know why anybody hasn't called for the firing of the WR coach. These guys don't seem to be developing at all and "part" of the problem is some shitty routes

[Bretsky]

He could have traded Rodgers to Denver for multiple picks. If he had, Love would be playing now and they'd be getting an idea of whether Love can be the guy. If he can't, they'd have the draft capital this year to trade up and draft the QB of the future.


OR there is a chance if we traded Rodgers for the multiple picks maybe we use Denver's pick to draft da Bears QB

[Joemailman]

I'm talking about 2022 draft. Fields was drafted in 2021.

[run pMc]

Is Rodgers' thumb broken? I recently heard that it was. If that's the case, he probably couldn't grip and throw properly in the cold/snow. You'd think they'd try to bench him for a week or two so it could heal up.
There's also the theory of older players not playing well in colder weather (take that for what you think it's worth) and maybe he's hit that expiration date for late season Lambeau games.

Either way, WTF is up with Joe Barry playing CBs off on one of the worst receiving/passing offenses in the league? They did an ok-ish job on Henry, but they got dog-walked down the field and let them convert to many short 3rd/4th downs. They have these great athletes who can surely play up and challenge 30 year old Robert Woods' of the world... and they make them play 8 yards off the line. Just madness. Tannehill looked like a sniper out there outplaying Rodgers while going for an efficient 22/27 for 330 yards...just awful.

They need to figure out balance on offense as well. If Rodgers is throwing more than 30-32 times they are going to lose. He hasn't played that great and his receivers aren't that good.

[call_me_ishmael]

I have two thoughts. Maybe not good ones, though.

1) Were they too quick to get rid of Mike Pettine? I didn't think he was all that bad although there were a few clear communication breakdowns that were pretty egregious.

2) It is just me or does it seem like a new coordinator/coach does great the first year then sort of stinks and reverts to their career average? Seemed like it happened with Dom, Pettine, and now Berry.

[RashanGary]

Teams are playing 2 high safeties almost consistently around the league because it prevents the big passing plays. A major downside of playing 2 high is it softens run defense. Man defense also softens run defense. Playing 2 high and man defense would be begging the Titans to run it down our throat.

Each defense is a give and take.

[bobblehead]

Right about now are we sure that Denver won't still throw a bunch of capital at us for Rodgers?

[run pMc]

Teams are playing 2 high safeties almost consistently around the league because it prevents the big passing plays. A major downside of playing 2 high is it softens run defense. Man defense also softens run defense. Playing 2 high and man defense would be begging the Titans to run it down our throat.

Each defense is a give and take.

True, and the 2 high is reportedly a reason scoring is down this year.

I think you could mix in other coverages (Cover-1) on early downs or at least play more Cover-2 Man instead of playing Jaire in a curl/flat zone. Dude runs a 4.3 and makes like $25M and you're playing him in off zone coverage like he's Quentin Rollins. That just doesn't seem like smart use of your personnel. Coaches should put the players in position to succeed based on what they do well.

Barry has often chosen to just run a borrowed scheme vs. create a scheme that is tailored to his players.

[run pMc]

Right about now are we sure that Denver won't still throw a bunch of capital at us for Rodgers?

It would probably require us taking both Russ and Hackett lol.

[Joemailman]

Right about now are we sure that Denver won't still throw a bunch of capital at us for Rodgers?

They traded away their 2023 1st and 2nd round picks in the Russell Wilson trade.

[Sparkey]

And my best guess so far is Gute was wrong..

I'm starting to think the Rodgers signing was a Mark Murphy move. Say all you want about Gute, but at the top of the three silos is a chair that Murphy sits in.

[Sparkey]

I have two thoughts. Maybe not good ones, though.

1) Were they too quick to get rid of Mike Pettine? I didn't think he was all that bad although there were a few clear communication breakdowns that were pretty egregious.

2) It is just me or does it seem like a new coordinator/coach does great the first year then sort of stinks and reverts to their career average? Seemed like it happened with Dom, Pettine, and now Berry.
Pettine - communication issues in secondary
Berry - communication issues in secondary

Both coaches have the same db coach ? Hmmm.

[Joemailman]

I'm starting to think the Rodgers signing was a Mark Murphy move. Say all you want about Gute, but at the top of the three silos is a chair that Murphy sits in.

No question Murphy would have to approve it. Ball was the guy who had to work out all the numbers. Hard to say for sure if Gute was fully on board.

[Fritz]

I'm starting to think the Rodgers signing was a Mark Murphy move. Say all you want about Gute, but at the top of the three silos is a chair that Murphy sits in.

This was always PBMax's complaint, this silo design.

Yeah, it's hard to say who thought what - we may never find out.

Trade Rodgers! Last year you might've gotten two firsts; maybe you could still get one.

[RashanGary]

True, and the 2 high is reportedly a reason scoring is down this year.

I think you could mix in other coverages (Cover-1) on early downs or at least play more Cover-2 Man instead of playing Jaire in a curl/flat zone. Dude runs a 4.3 and makes like $25M and you're playing him in off zone coverage like he's Quentin Rollins. That just doesn't seem like smart use of your personnel. Coaches should put the players in position to succeed based on what they do well.

Barry has often chosen to just run a borrowed scheme vs. create a scheme that is tailored to his players.

Jaire is a better zone corner so they are putting him in position to succeed. And 2 high man, we wouldn’t be able to stop the run. There is a reason 2 high zone is being used right now. Offenses can do too many things against the other defenses.

[bobblehead]

They traded away their 2023 1st and 2nd round picks in the Russell Wilson trade.

I didn't say DRAFT capital...although 2024 picks wouldn't bother me

[run pMc]

Jaire is a better zone corner so they are putting him in position to succeed. And 2 high man, we wouldn’t be able to stop the run. There is a reason 2 high zone is being used right now. Offenses can do too many things against the other defenses.

Jaire can play either well, but I think he's a better man corner.
They can't really stop the run no matter what they call, which is not how it was supposed to be.

To be clear, I'm not against them playing zone, Barry and Gray have them playing so far off in zone that it's almost a practice drill for the opposing team. Zone has its benefits but they should mix it up more and play it tighter. playing 8 yards off on 3rd and 6 is bad.

[RashanGary]

Jaire can play either well, but I think he's a better man corner.
They can't really stop the run no matter what they call, which is not how it was supposed to be.

To be clear, I'm not against them playing zone, Barry and Gray have them playing so far off in zone that it's almost a practice drill for the opposing team. Zone has its benefits but they should mix it up more and play it tighter. playing 8 yards off on 3rd and 6 is bad.

I see him beat more often in man. I think he’s a really quick trigger from zone and can cover all routes from off. But I could be wrong.

Hard to tell if our average defense is because of talent or coaching. Coaching is easier to change. Might have to make a move. Gute has to be getting into hot water. Lafleur too. They’re not very good right now.

[Bretsky]

It’s a shame but I am making the call that Jimmy Jimmy Jimmy is coming off the market by December 1st. He’d have been such a great fit in gb it’s a shame they weren’t more aggressive in their pursuit on a
Fiscal level. Barry has to go away though

[call_me_ishmael]

I don't think Goot or LaFleur are in hot water, but I suspect they will make a DC change if only to change things up. There D was legit last year, I have to wonder what has changed. The players, if anything, got better. My gut feeling is that coaches, like everyone else, gets a little more comfortable and puts in less work in later years, and then voices start to get blocked out. Personally, I think it's important to rotate coaches every few years.

[bobblehead]

I don't think Goot or LaFleur are in hot water, but I suspect they will make a DC change if only to change things up. There D was legit last year, I have to wonder what has changed. The players, if anything, got better. My gut feeling is that coaches, like everyone else, gets a little more comfortable and puts in less work in later years, and then voices start to get blocked out. Personally, I think it's important to rotate coaches every few years.

This is a league where good coaches learn a way and run it, but great coaches study film and adapt. There are a lot of good coaches, but the Vic Fanzio or Mike Zimmer guys are few. Is MiLF a guy who learned the Shanahan way, or is he a guy who will adapt? I think we got our answer regarding Berry or Barry or whatever.