WHAT IF WINNING THE LAST TWO GAMES SECURED JOE BARRY'S JOB ??? THOUGHTS ?

[Bretsky]

What would your preference be ?

[Bretsky]

What do you say Rats ? What is the bare minimal you are content with ?

Would you say you are happy, at bare minimum, if GB ends strong at 2-0, fails to make the playoffs, the JB's job is secured ?
Do you have to see GB make the playoffs for JB to stay ?
Or do you consider moving on from Joe Barry and the greater good and are willing to sacrifice the playoffs for a hopeful huge upgrade at DC ???

[Bretsky]

No surprise how I will vote. The team has been fun to watch. We are completely a different team with Watson; but we are not threat to anybody if we slide into the last spot.
Embrace the greater good; and hopefully we find competence in the next 2 years and can make a legitimate run.

[Fosco33]

If we win the superb owl then I’d expect JB to stay. If we get blown out in wild card or divisional - it’s not even a hard decision to move past. We have the talent to be top 10 but he lost this team - CBs playing for home runs constantly. Injuries to MLB and DL stars have hurt but the poor angles, poor tackling, scheme/adjustments (until what week 6 - we played zone and 3-4 man rush - now we blitz every couple plays). That’s all on coaching.

If Jimmy is game - I think he’d be perfect.

[bobblehead]

Its not so much about winning and losing as it is about how Joe Barry's defense performs. Since our Offense still isn't stellar and the Vikings have a high powered offense, the only way I expect to win is if Joe Bs squad has a decent day.

Last year we completely shut down the 49ers. The offense and ST let us down horribly. If Barry's squad performs and balls out to end the season he probably deserves to stay. Especially if he has a good run in the playoffs.

[texaspackerbacker]

Both the second and third choices are good/make a lot of sense ....... but as of the time I'm posting this, incredibly, the only other three people voting STUPIDLY and SHAMEFULLY voted for the first one. Sure, I'm as much in favor of getting rid of Barry as anybody, but wishing for Packer losses? And these dumbasses claim to be Packer fans? That's downright sickening.

[King Friday]

Barry needs to go. If it takes losing to get rid of him, do it. Wallowing in mediocrity is unacceptable, and Barry is notoriously mediocre. Any scenario that would keep him around is a setback for Green Bay.

[Joemailman]

I didn't vote because I disagree with the premise of the poll which seems to be that if the Packers win their last 2 games, Barry has to stay. I think there is ample evidence that this defense has underachieved under Barry, even if they do make the playoffs. Heck, 2 years ago they moved on from Pettine after making the playoffs 2 years in a row. If they could move on from Pettine, who is a better coach than Barry, then they can move on from Barry. The only way firing Barry is really difficult is if they make a deep run in the playoffs spurred by outstanding defensive play.

[George Cumby]

^ Yeah, there needs to be another option:

Packers make PO's but still fire Barry.

[Bretsky]

^ Yeah, there needs to be another option:

Packers make PO's but still fire Barry.

That would be a p@say like poll. A poll is supposed to spur differences. Everybody would select your option

[Bretsky]

I didn't vote because I disagree with the premise of the poll which seems to be that if the Packers win their last 2 games, Barry has to stay. I think there is ample evidence that this defense has underachieved under Barry, even if they do make the playoffs. Heck, 2 years ago they moved on from Pettine after making the playoffs 2 years in a row. If they could move on from Pettine, who is a better coach than Barry, then they can move on from Barry. The only way firing Barry is really difficult is if they make a deep run in the playoffs spurred by outstanding defensive play.


There is no assumed premise. I am asking for opinions. If you don’t believe Barry is capable of directing a defense to a championship then this should be debateable

If I am making good polls I don’t want some to like them :))

[MadtownPacker]

Packers already fucked off a top 10 pick, might as well win out and see what happens.

[call_me_ishmael]

Don't push this energy out there in the world Bretsky lol. Both of these things need to happen. Bring home Jimmy, move on from Barry, make the playoffs and make a run.

[MadScientist]

Saw a blog somewhere that noted the DC churn for the Packers under MLF. If they do ditch Barry, will this churn make it less likely for a good coordinator to come to GB knowing he's likely to be scapegoated in short order. DC's are lasting about as long as defense against the dark arts professors.

[Bretsky]

Serious question ??? Who has been our best DC on a Rodgers team ? Dom Capers ??

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Serious question ??? Who has been our best DC on a Rodgers team ? Dom Capers ??

Bob Sanders. No seriously, Capers, no a doubt. Capers’ D, without all-pro Nick Barnett and all-pro Al Harris (both of whom were acquired by Sherman), won the last game of the 2010 season, clinching a playoff birth. Carried momentum into the playoffs.
Woulda dominated the Steel-fuckers in the Big Game, but Jarrett Bush was forced into action after Wood got KIA.

Sure, Kap owned Capers and the Packers, but it’s understandable. Kap was/is awesome.

[Joemailman]

Serious question ??? Who has been our best DC on a Rodgers team ? Dom Capers ??

Yes. Barry, and to a lesser extent Pettine, have had more talent to work with than Capers did. Reason being Gute's willingness to sign FA's to shore up holes on defense compared to TT's almost total reliance on the draft and UDFA's. Capers' defenses in 2009, before Kampman and Harris got hurt, 2010 and 2012 were very good.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Yes. Barry, and to a lesser extent Pettine, have had more talent to work with than Capers did. Reason being Gute's willingness to sign FA's to shore up holes on defense compared to TT's almost total reliance on the draft and UDFA's. Capers' defenses in 2009, before Kampman and Harris got hurt, 2010 and 2012 were very good.

Kampman, a Sherman draft pick, was such a misfit in Capers’ 3-4 defense, he was shipped off to Jacksonville after one season in the system.

[Bretsky]

appears the ending to the season secured JB's job per Matt's hashita NewFloor

[Joemailman]

appears the ending to the season secured JB's job per Matt's hashita NewFloor

Seems that way. He seems to think Barry can get the defense to do for a whole season what they did the last 5 weeks. He better be right or his own job could end up in jeopardy before too long.

[King Friday]

Hope all you gobblers who wanted Packers success late in 2022 all speak nothing but high praise and love for Barry moving forward. Rather than do what was necessary to improve moving forward, the Packers satisfied the whim of a near 40 year old QB and wound up with no real idea of how to move forward, and are still stuck with an inept DC.

Hope 8-9 was worth it for ya!

[Bretsky]

Hope all you gobblers who wanted Packers success late in 2022 all speak nothing but high praise and love for Barry moving forward. Rather than do what was necessary to improve moving forward, the Packers satisfied the whim of a near 40 year old QB and wound up with no real idea of how to move forward, and are still stuck with an inept DC.

Hope 8-9 was worth it for ya!


The concept of the Greater Good was destroyed, and we still didn't make the dam playoffs to get our asses handed to us by San Fran

[red]

we would have been in much better shape moving forward if we had lost those 4 games

[Fosco33]

we would have been in much better shape moving forward if we had lost those 4 games

Why stop there? If we had just lost all of them after winning our 3rd game we could’ve picked 1st in the draft!!

….

I mean - we were a drive away from the playoffs and y’all want to worry about the draft? Smh

[RashanGary]

We might get all time lucky, Rodgers retired, jordan Love stinks, the front office runs out of money and cuts a bunch of guys, we lose 14 games next year and draft the next HOF QB! All is not lost!

[call_me_ishmael]

Man, I don't really like the way Joe Barry was running the D but I guess fair is fair, he did turn it around. I'm not so sure there is another slam dunk candidate out there.

Do the Packers just not have the personnel to stop the run sufficiently, or what is the deal there? It feels like the D should be better given how much they invested there. I'm not totally convinced another coordinator will get better results.

[Deputy Nutz]

Yuck. His defenses had to become so very simplistic at the end because he couldn't get the back end to cover when we brought more than 4 rushers. There was no creativity to anything at all. At least Alexander turned his season around, but everyone else dropped off. The Packers have used extensive draft capital on the defensive side of the ball and I don't see it making an impact. You could blame crappy drafting, or crappy coaching. Joe Barry was hired because he is bros with MLF and that won't change. MLF will keep him on staff until he is given and ultimatum.

[bobblehead]

I think the D finished strong. D didn't exactly crush our D, we had 3 turnovers. We also lost one of the best young pass rushers in the league and a very good young cover corner. Its tough to overcome that kind of thing, but by the last few weeks we had adjusted to it.

I am no Barry apologist, but I don't blame him for this teams woes this season. That falls directly on the piss poor play of Mr. Rodgers.

[Joemailman]

It was the defense that got the Packers back into playoff contention. Gave up just 17.6 PPG and forced 12 turnovers in the 4 wins. And as Bobble pointed out, played well enough to win vs Detroit if offense hadn't turned it over 3 times. Now, it took Barry too long to get the defense playing at a high level, but few if any teams would fire Barry in this situation. On the other hand, on how many NFL teams would Adam Stenavich be the offensive coordinator?

[beveaux1]

It was the defense that got the Packers back into playoff contention. Gave up just 17.6 PPG and forced 12 turnovers in the 4 wins. And as Bobble pointed out, played well enough to win vs Detroit if offense hadn't turned it over 3 times. Now, it took Barry too long to get the defense playing at a high level, but few if any teams would fire Barry in this situation. On the other hand, on how many NFL teams would Adam Stenavich be the offensive coordinator?

Good point, but might be extenuating circumstances with 3 rookie WRs for a first year coordinator. Next year if Rodgers is still there and there’s no improvement to the offense, that might be a great point.

[Bretsky]

It was the defense that got the Packers back into playoff contention. Gave up just 17.6 PPG and forced 12 turnovers in the 4 wins. And as Bobble pointed out, played well enough to win vs Detroit if offense hadn't turned it over 3 times. Now, it took Barry too long to get the defense playing at a high level, but few if any teams would fire Barry in this situation. On the other hand, on how many NFL teams would Adam Stenavich be the offensive coordinator?


There are absolutely ZERO nfl teams other than Green Bay who would want our defensive coordinator OR our offensive coordinator. Heck I don’t want either at my favorite college football team either

[call_me_ishmael]

There are absolutely ZERO nfl teams other than Green Bay who would want our defensive coordinator OR our offensive coordinator. Heck I don’t want either at my favorite college football team either

I'm not sure I agree with this with Stenovich. Certainly prior to last year I think he could have had some jobs if he wanted 'em. Barry - you're probably right.

[Freak Out]

The off coverages on third and 4 should get him fired on its own. Savage needs to be gone long ago.

[Teamcheez1]

Barry is not making the defense better considering the talent and investment made on the defensive side of the ball. He should be gone.

From Packers wire:

2022 2021 Improve/regress
Points per game 21.8 (17th) 21.8 (14th) Same
Yards per game 336.5 (17th) 328.2 (9th) Regress
Yards per play 5.8 (28th) 5.4 (15th) Regress
Takeaways 24 (12th) 26 (9th) Regress
Scoring% 38.2 (23rd) 36.6 (15th) Regress
TDs allowed 42 (20th) 44 (16th) Improve
Passer rating allowed 88.3 (15th)86.9 (10th) Regress
Sacks 34 (27th) 39 (16th) Regress
Tackles for loss 68 (24th) 52 (32nd) Improve
Yards/attempt 7.4 (28th) 6.7 (7th) Regress
Yards/carry 5.0 (28th) 4.7 (30th) Regress
Interceptions 17 (4th) 18 (6th) Regress
3rd down% 37.6 (8th) 42.9 (24th) Improve
4th down% 57.9 (23rd) 45.5 (7th) Regress
Red zone TD% 53.7 (13th) 67.3 (30th) Improve
Average yards/drive 33.0 (23rd)32.1 (18th) Regress
Average points/drive 2.07 (26th)2.12 (20th) Improve
Penalties 100 (25th). 88 (4th) Regress
DVOA 2.7% (20th). 3.6% (22nd) Improve
PFF grade. 67.7 (21st) 76.8 (3rd) Regress
EPA -63.86 (20th) -55.57 (16th) Regress

[Joemailman]

I think MLF has to decide whether the defensive resurgence last 5 games was an anomaly or whether Barry has turned a corner as a DC. I don't buy the notion that MLF will stick with Barry because they're buddies. MLF knows if he gets this call wrong, his own future could be in jeopardy.

[Fritz]

I think MLF has to decide whether the defensive resurgence last 5 games was an anomaly or whether Barry has turned a corner as a DC. I don't buy the notion that MLF will stick with Barry because they're buddies. MLF knows if he gets this call wrong, his own future could be in jeopardy.

With the incredible investment on the defensive side of the ball - is it six or seven first-round picks on that defense ? - it would be hard to argue that the defense was really even good enough. That was an underacheiving defense. Sure they played better the last five games, but Nutz made a good point - they couldn't call anything exotic at all because apparently the players would get too confused, so they ended up with this simplistic defense that could not stop a fourth down play, and could not stop the run. That defense was so hyped up in training camp that many thought this was a top-five unit. And they weren't even close.

I would fire Barry, but it looks like he's coming back. And Stenavich - well, what a great offensive line coach. But as an O-coordinator, well, he was stuck with an aging, obstinate QB and a bunch of oft-injured rookie wide receivers - but that offensive line, even when they had their preferred unit out there - they sucked. Butkus, the O-line coach, really ought to go. That offensive line underperformed.

I'm going to be so, so disappointed if they trot out the same coaching staff and the same QB and the same basic players plus draft picks next year. If they try to "run it back" again it's going to look like one of Amari Rodgers's attempts to run it back.