Week 17 Other Games Thread

[Joemailman]

17 Thu 2022-12-29 7:15PM Dallas Cowboys @ Tennessee Titans
17 Sun 2023-01-01 12:00PM Carolina Panthers @ Tampa Bay Buccaneers
17 Sun 2023-01-01 12:00PM Pittsburgh Steelers @ Baltimore Ravens
17 Sun 2023-01-01 12:00PM New Orleans Saints @ Philadelphia Eagles
17 Sun 2023-01-01 12:00PM Miami Dolphins @ New England Patriots
17 Sun 2023-01-01 12:00PM Jacksonville Jaguars @ Houston Texans
17 Sun 2023-01-01 12:00PM Denver Broncos @ Kansas City Chiefs
17 Sun 2023-01-01 12:00PM Arizona Cardinals @ Atlanta Falcons
17 Sun 2023-01-01 12:00PM Cleveland Browns @ Washington Commanders
17 Sun 2023-01-01 12:00PM Chicago Bears @ Detroit Lions
17 Sun 2023-01-01 12:00PM Indianapolis Colts @ New York Giants
17 Sun 2023-01-01 3:05PM San Francisco 49ers @ Las Vegas Raiders
17 Sun 2023-01-01 3:05PM New York Jets @ Seattle Seahawks
17 Sun 2023-01-01 3:25PM Minnesota Vikings @ Green Bay Packers
17 Sun 2023-01-01 7:20PM Los Angeles Rams @ Los Angeles Chargers
17 Mon 2023-01-02 7:30PM Buffalo Bills @ Cincinnati Bengals

[Joemailman]

CBS Early - Most of Wisconsin, Michigan and Chicago area gets Indianapolis at New York Giants. Kevin Harlan and Trent Green with the call. Northwest Wisconsin, most of Minnesota and Alaska get Miami at New England. Ian Eagle and Charles Davis with the call.

https://506sports.com/2022/17-CBS-E-V4.png

Fox Single - Great lakes area gets Chicago at Detroit. Kenny Albert and Jonathan Vilma with the call. Alaska gets New York Jets at Seattle. Chris Myers and Robert Smith with the call. The orange area on the map is Cleveland at Washington. Adam Amin and Mark Schlereth with the call.

https://506sports.com/2022/17-FOX-V2.png

[Joemailman]

538.com gives Browns a 48% chance of beating Commanders.

[Teamcheez1]

If the Eagles win on Sunday, the Cowboys have nothing to play for against the Commanders next week. Their playoff seeding will be locked at 5th.

[Joemailman]

If the Eagles win on Sunday, the Cowboys have nothing to play for against the Commanders next week. Their playoff seeding will be locked at 5th.

That's part of why I'm not as optimistic as some that the Packers are in if they win out. They could very easily be the best team record-wise not to make the playoffs.

[RashanGary]

That's part of why I'm not as optimistic as some that the Packers are in if they win out. They could very easily be the best team record-wise not to make the playoffs.

That’s why I made the commanders Cleveland thread. It’s our best chance.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

If Mother Luck shows mercy on this hapless burger flipping loser, the following 8 teams will ALL win AND beat the spread in some cases:

1. TB (vs Car) -4
2. Cle (at Was) ML
3. NYG (vs Ind) -6
4. Mia (at NE) ML
5. Atl (vs Ari) -6
6. Sea (vs NYJ) ML
7. GB (vs Min) -3
8. Pit (at Bal) ML

[texaspackerbacker]

You're gonna get knocked down by Carolina, New England, and maybe Baltimore and the Jetsm but good luck anyway hahahaha.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Points spread and Mermen fucked me.

[MadtownPacker]

Wow miners just got lit up!!

[Fosco33]

Hamlin been down for 9min and getting cpr. Didn’t look like a bad hit - just got up and fell. Crazy

[Sparkey]

So, they were loading Hamlin on the ambulance, then quickly pulled him off the ambulance to administer CPR. I see no way to continue this game.

Nearly 50 minutes and no updates ? Not good. It is just a game.

[red]

hate to say it, but it looked a lot like hank gathers when he went down

[red]

So, they were loading Hamlin on the ambulance, then quickly pulled him off the ambulance to administer CPR. I see no way to continue this game.

you can't, you just can't

i wasn't watching at the time, but from when i saw, both teams are very shaken up, you can't play right after seeing that

[Joemailman]

Looks like equipment people are putting stuff away, so they're likely done for tonight.

[red]

Looks like equipment people are putting stuff away, so they're likely done for tonight.

yeah, after seeing both coaches hugging and on the phone, that had to be with goodell figuring out what to do next

[Joemailman]

Wasn't a really violent hit, but Hamlin took a helmet in the chest area.

[red]

hope its not this

Commotio Cordis

https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/902504-overview

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commotio_cordis

they did just say he's at the hospital in critical condition, so he's still alive

[Fosco33]

I watched live and replays. Wasn’t bad at all - was to the left side of his chest. When he got up and fell and hit his head that looked worse.
He never clutched his chest or anything visible.

Hate to think it could’ve been rib puncturing the heart or something. Clearly cardiac

[MadScientist]

hope its not this

Commotio Cordis

https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/902504-overview

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commotio_cordis

they did just say he's at the hospital in critical condition, so he's still alive

That sounds like the most likely cause. Extremely rare, and just terrible luck. We can only hope that CPR was in time and enough for him to survive and recover. Not sure why there weren't defibrillators on hand. They have them on hand in little league parks for just such an emergency.

[bobblehead]

you can't, you just can't

i wasn't watching at the time, but from when i saw, both teams are very shaken up, you can't play right after seeing that

When I was pole vaulting in high school a kid balked on his run and his leg slipped between the mats causing a Theisman type compound fracture. No way in hell anyone was pole vaulting that day. I actually was surprised the NFL did the right thing and called it, although I think the players probably simply said no.

[bobblehead]

hope its not this

Commotio Cordis

https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/902504-overview

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commotio_cordis

they did just say he's at the hospital in critical condition, so he's still alive

I heard a lot of talking heads speculating about this, but I did hear one Dr. say that its unlikely that this was the case in a 24 year old who played football his whole life. He pointed out that it had never happened in the history of the NFL.

edit: I also just read a non expert say that if it was this he wouldn't have stood up. If the hit caused his heart to stop, he doesn't stand up before dropping. What I know from many firearm courses I have taken is that a bullet that hits the heart causes a near instant death. This makes sense, but I am not a Dr....although I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

[hoosier]

Not impossible that with commotio cordis he would have gotten up and taken a few steps before collapsing. Experiments with pigs getting hit over heart silhouette with wooden balls have shown that the first, immediate change is from normal rhythm to something that looks like polymorphic v tach, which then within a few seconds deteriorates into v fib and immediate unconsciousness. During those few seconds of "v tach," you would be conscious and ambulatory.

https://www.ahajournals.org/cms/asset/f26029f6-b17d-4f1e-bb90-69e97415c2ae/hae0011204550002.jpg

[MadScientist]

A few years ago, a Brewers prospect went into Commotio Cordis after being hit by a pitch. It took him months to start recovering, but he did. There's a good chance that Hamlin will recover, but I don't expect he'll play again.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2017/10/16/brewers-minor-leaguer-julio-mendez-making-remarkable-recovery-cardiac-event/769416001/

[bobblehead]

Not impossible that with commotio cordis he would have gotten up and taken a few steps before collapsing. Experiments with pigs getting hit over heart silhouette with wooden balls have shown that the first, immediate change is from normal rhythm to something that looks like polymorphic v tach, which then within a few seconds deteriorates into v fib and immediate unconsciousness. During those few seconds of "v tach," you would be conscious and ambulatory.


I deleted the charts as I have no idea what they mean, but if it was studied and thats the case I believe it. As I said, the thing I read was from a non expert and I was only guessing. I'm sure this will be covered til the cows come home eventually and we will probably get some pretty solid answers. I will say this though...thats just fucking cruel, even if they were just pigs.

[hoosier]

I deleted the charts as I have no idea what they mean, but if it was studied and thats the case I believe it. As I said, the thing I read was from a non expert and I was only guessing. I'm sure this will be covered til the cows come home eventually and we will probably get some pretty solid answers. I will say this though...thats just fucking cruel, even if they were just pigs.

It's an EKG strip, not a chart. I was merely correcting the record, that Hamlin's getting up before collapsing isn't at all incompatible with cardiac arrest resulting from a sudden, ill-timed blow with no underlying condition. Cruel it may be, but what do you think modern medicine has grown up on?

[hoosier]

Interesting, but not terribly surprising, how Roger and the NFL are trying to take credit for having the good sense and decency to make the decision to suspend last night's game. Of course, they don't mention that the players and coaches first had to refuse to follow the league's directive to warm up and resume playing.

[bobblehead]

Agree, Roger is a snake. He is good at the business of football, but he is an inconsistent prick none the less.

I don't totally blame him for trying to say "the show must go on". I've never seen a game stopped for injury. Not theisman or smith. Not dickerson when he went numb from the neck down. But I also fully get the players saying forget it. Who wants to play after watching 9 minutes of CPR.

[MadScientist]

Agree, Roger is a snake. He is good at the business of football, but he is an inconsistent prick none the less.

I don't totally blame him for trying to say "the show must go on". I've never seen a game stopped for injury. Not theisman or smith. Not dickerson when he went numb from the neck down. But I also fully get the players saying forget it. Who wants to play after watching 9 minutes of CPR.

Times have changed:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/an-nfl-player-died-on-the-field-and-everyone-went-on-playing/ar-AA11ZCEI

[Teamcheez1]

Interesting, but not terribly surprising, how Roger and the NFL are trying to take credit for having the good sense and decency to make the decision to suspend last night's game. Of course, they don't mention that the players and coaches first had to refuse to follow the league's directive to warm up and resume playing.

That was completely false.

[Fosco33]

How will this work if they don’t resume play this week and don’t change week 18s schedule.

Presume the outcome change playoff seeding how would they not play it?

Would they delay all playoff games by a week?

[The Shadow]

Anyone old enough to remember Chuck Hughes of the Lions?
https://www.news4jax.com/sports/2023/01/03/remembering-chuck-hughes-the-only-nfl-player-to-die-on-the-field-during-a-game/

[Freak Out]

How will this work if they don’t resume play this week and don’t change week 18s schedule.

Presume the outcome change playoff seeding how would they not play it?

Would they delay all playoff games by a week?

Football is a violent game. Players can die pretty much every snap. They have to play this game or just hang the cleats up for good.

[texaspackerbacker]

Anyone old enough to remember Chuck Hughes of the Lions?
https://www.news4jax.com/sports/2023/01/03/remembering-chuck-hughes-the-only-nfl-player-to-die-on-the-field-during-a-game/

I was 24 at the time. I recall it was determined in his autopsy that he had a congenital condition that made him extremely susceptible to cholesterol buildup - which caused his fatal heart attack. With today's technology, he might have survived the same as Hamlin has so far. It might be interesting to determine what underlying conditions Hamlin might have. Some people have said the way he went down reminded them of Len Bias - for anybody that remembers his demise. There is also, of course, the theory that bobblehead is talking about, which seems to have a good possibility of validity.

Regarding Fosco's post above, yes, they can't wait very long to finish that game without screwing up the whole playoff situation by drastically shortening the time for those two teams to prepare for the first week of playoff games. This would piss me off, as does all the sanctimonious bullshit floating around about why delay is "necessary" (let the whiny piss ants in here chime in hahahaha).

[texaspackerbacker]

Football is a violent game. Players can die pretty much every snap. They have to play this game or just hang the cleats up for good.

Damn right! And for that risk, the players are paid EXTREMELY well - to play a basically fun game that so many of us could only dream of having the opportunity to get paid for. Anybody that can't handle the risk v reward can, as you say, just hang up their cleats. A few have, but most see the risk as worth it for the rewards. I don't see any reason to lessen that risk if it means harming the quality of the game.

My first thought when I heard about this on field incident was that a bunch of shitheads (with motivations unmentionable this side of FYI) might try to use the incident to destroy the NFL in the sick name of "safety" - like so many changes already that have watered it down.

[MadScientist]

Damn right! And for that risk, the players are paid EXTREMELY well - to play a basically fun game that so many of us could only dream of having the opportunity to get paid for. Anybody that can't handle the risk v reward can, as you say, just hang up their cleats. A few have, but most see the risk as worth it for the rewards. I don't see any reason to lessen that risk if it means harming the quality of the game.

My first thought when I heard about this on field incident was that a bunch of shitheads (with motivations unmentionable this side of FYI) might try to use the incident to destroy the NFL in the sick name of "safety" - like so many changes already that have watered it down.
Players know they can get injured on any play, potentially ending their careers. None of them were thinking they could die on any play before Monday's game. They NFL owes it to the players to at least fully investigate this incident to see how exactly it happened (blow strength, location, angle, and any medical conditions the player had). It's likely that some modifications to the chest protection gear will come from this to reduce the chance of this happening again.

Remember, football was almost banned in the early 1900's due to deaths. I'm sure there were jackasses back then that said helmets, protective gear and allowing the forward pass would ruin the game.

[Teamcheez1]

This happens once in 100 years. We don’t need wholesale changes.

[run pMc]

This happens once in 100 years. We don’t need wholesale changes.

Agree. I think it was a fluky thing. I don't know that there's much if anything the league can do. A different chest plate? Would the players opt to wear it, especially if it could hamper movement?

The players know they are putting their bodies (and their lives) on the line when they play. High risk, high reward. Most wash out of the league in 3 years with lifelong injuries.

I will say the medical personnel worked very fast and saved Hamlin's life, which is the most important thing. Having trained staff on the field made the difference, and I hope Hamlin recovers and lives a full life.

Will be curious to see how this game gets rescheduled - it had playoff seeding implications. Stopping the game was the right call - few players looked ready to continue the game for one thing. The NFL wouldn't want the PR nightmare fallout of not stopping, for another.

[Freak Out]

Those guys were in no condition to play after that incident but they need to play the game. Thursday? Delay the whole NFL a week?

[Joemailman]

Those guys were in no condition to play after that incident but they need to play the game. Thursday? Delay the whole NFL a week?

Sounds like they're not playing the game this week. So one option is moving the schedule back a week. That likely means either changing the date of the Super Bowl or eliminating the extra week between conference title games and Super Bowl. The other option is just cancelling the game, resulting in Bills and Bengals playing one less game, and going with winning pct. to determine playoff seeding. The NFL was prepared to do this in 2020 in the event that games were cancelled due to Covid.

[ThunderDan]

Sounds like they're not playing the game this week. So one option is moving the schedule back a week. That likely means either changing the date of the Super Bowl or eliminating the extra week between conference title games and Super Bowl. The other option is just cancelling the game, resulting in Bills and Bengals playing one less game, and going with winning pct. to determine playoff seeding. The NFL was prepared to do this in 2020 in the event that games were cancelled due to Covid.

I would guess at this point the game is a scratch.

[bobblehead]

I would guess at this point the game is a scratch.

Seems that way. I'm kind of shocked the NFL went this route. I figured they would finish it tonight so both teams would get a 3 day rest ala playing on Thur after sunday. Another option would have been to have them finish tomorrow in an unscheduled thur night football, then both play next monday instead of sunday. I'm really shocked the NFL is going to make a mess of an already horrible situation.

[call_me_ishmael]

Hopefully they're refunding people.

[MadtownPacker]

Record the game as a tie if both teams will agree. It is the only way to minimize the effect on the playoffs of the don’t play this week.

Or have them do some shit like APB would do, play a game of madden over it.

[Fosco33]

If the bills won both their games - they’d get 1 seed and the bye. I doubt they’ll settle for an extra playoff game…

[MadScientist]

On a good note for the Bills and the NFL, Hamlin is improving:
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/damar-hamlin-buffalo-bills-update-01-05-23/index.html

[bobblehead]

On a good note for the Bills and the NFL, Hamlin is improving:
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/damar-hamlin-buffalo-bills-update-01-05-23/index.html

Thats good news. He is lucky this was an NFL game, not some high school where he wouldn't have gotten the care as immediately. This might have been one of only a few settings he survives a coronary of that magnitude.

[texaspackerbacker]

Assuming they just leave things the way they are, Baltimore and Buffalo are harmed big time. The Ravens would be playing the Bengals this week for 1st in their division, and the Ravens would have the tie breaker with a win. And Buffalo win a win in the suspended game would would be tied with K.C., and the Bills also would have the tiebreaker with a head to head win. But all that is deemed to be less significant than stupid hurt feelings or whatever the fuck they're concerned about.

[Fritz]

Somebody mentioned that the NFL is considering just adding an extra team to each conference's playoffs, and giving the top two teams in each conference a bye. Wouldn't that shake everything up? It would also allow the NFL next year to continue to water down the importance of the regular season, cuz once you open that door, you ain't going to shut it again.

[Fosco33]

They’ll vote and decide something today. Which is changing the rules mid season - a slippery ass slope.

This kinda stuff (games cancelled late season) should be well understood of implications.

The fair thing to do would be give Cincy the W. They were at home, w/ the lead and the ball. They were being kind in their response to a once every 50 year event.

But expanding the playoffs and adding a 2nd seed bye plus some neutral site implications would be most likely.

That’d suck for the local bills, chiefs fans having to drive to MN or DET for championship wknd

[Freak Out]

What's wild as hell is the Fantasy/Betting implications. Whoa...some folks are going to be pissed off.

[bobblehead]

What they should have done is schedule to finish the game within a day or 2, picking up where they left off. The NFL dropped the ball big time on this one. Adding a team at this juncture? WTF is that. Imagine adding a team, then that team runs it. Or imagine adding a team (and thus a game) and the QB of the one seed gets injured in a game they weren't supposed to play.

Roger is a fucking idiot.

[RashanGary]

Roger is just the fall guy for 31 spoiled brats decisions. Please stop insinuating he makes decisions and blaming him.

[George Cumby]

Roger is just the fall guy for 31 spoiled brats decisions. Please stop insinuating he makes decisions and blaming him.

Affirmative.

He's the very well compensated lightning rod.

[call_me_ishmael]

I am frankly shocked that they didn't land on adding another team to the playoffs. All about the benjamins.