More Banjo - End of an Era

[Anti-Polar Bear]

As the #1 Butte fanboy, I blame Aaron…Jones.

Why did this muthafucka have to go and poop out the rock? Muthafucka single-handily killed momentum and annihilated space and time!

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Good news is, I can now boycott the NFL til next fall. If I ain’t watch NFL games, I ain’t gamble on NFL games.

#frogskins

[red]

props to jamaal williams

tied lions season record for td's in a season with the great barry sanders

dedicated the game to his grandfather who just died

[call_me_ishmael]

It's hard not to love Jamal Williams. He seems like a great teammate. I'm happy for him and his success.

Man, this one hurts. It just feels like it's time with Aaron.

[ThunderDan]

Another game to get into the playoffs and the O under performs against the worst D in the league.

ARod didn’t have it this year at all.

[red]

shhhhhh

don't let others know you think that

stats and the eye test kinda make it look like he wasn't even top 15 this year

[call_me_ishmael]

I'd like to see some more weapons brought in. AJO is unbelievable but rest of pass catchers outside of the young boy are meh at best. Lazard is a TE.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I love #33, but he's fumbled in a lot of big games recently. Hopefully, Jordan Love is good. He'll have a good OL, Watson, Doubs, and Dillon--which are good starting blocks. Do you let Jones go, and get Bijan Robinson in the draft, if he falls to #15? Probably not. We need an edge rusher.

[red]

I'd like to see some more weapons brought in. AJO is unbelievable but rest of pass catchers outside of the young boy are meh at best. Lazard is a TE.

i think we have a real nice start with watson and doubs, and lazard is fine as a #3 or 4

we have always needed a real pass catching TE

and then we need a QB who will throw to the guys when they're open

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Another game to get into the playoffs and the O under performs against the worst D in the league.

ARod didn’t have it this year at all.

Pussies didn’t play their top corner. I think they had their 3rd/4th corners out there. In the past, Butte woulda feasted on them scrubs. Then again, in the past, Butte threw to Driver, Jennings, Nelson, J-Mike, a young Cobb and Adams.

This could be the end. And in the end, it’s all about the Love you’re sending out, to borrow Coldplay.

[red]

I love #33, but he's fumbled in a lot of big games recently. Hopefully, Jordan Love is good. He'll have a good OL, Watson, Doubs, and Dillon--which are good starting blocks. Do you let Jones go, and get Bijan Robinson in the draft, if he falls to #15? Probably not. We need an edge rusher.

could you trade jones?

he's reaching THAT age. maybe only one or two good years left

a SB contender might be willing to trade for him

[King Friday]

As much as I want to move on from Rodgers, it won’t happen. This team has an enormous hard on for the guy still, and Rodgers isn’t walking away from all that cash.

[HarveyWallbangers]

You almost have to go with Jordan Love next year, but the Packers may be at the mercy of ARod. If you tank, then the 2024 QB class should be better than this year's class.

[Sparkey]

I think an 8-9 team with a young QB is far better than an 8-9 team with an aging QB.

[red]

god damn, the reporters in the locker room sure are treating this like a retirement

[call_me_ishmael]

I love #33, but he's fumbled in a lot of big games recently. Hopefully, Jordan Love is good. He'll have a good OL, Watson, Doubs, and Dillon--which are good starting blocks. Do you let Jones go, and get Bijan Robinson in the draft, if he falls to #15? Probably not. We need an edge rusher.

No way do they let AJO go IMO. He is not only their best player but only of the best players in the league IMO. Honestly, I believe he is an MVP candidate if they give him 20 touches a game.

To me this result is less about Rodgers and more about the Lions DL. They were dominant and he never seemed to have time. What happened to Doubs? After such a great camp and a reasonably good start he has been invisible. Lazard is a good TE. Watson needs to do something other than the deep route. I think the Packers will look at WR, TE, PR, S, OT this off-season.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

god damn, the reporters in the locker room sure are treating this like a retirement

You must be a masochist if you’re watching the post game show after a Packer loss.

I’ve already disconnected the antenna from my cheap smart TV, locked up antenna in the closet, deleted the YouTube app off said TV, turned TV off, and cancelled my PackersNews subscription.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Home: Bears, Lions, Vikings, Buccaneers, Saints, Chiefs, Chargers, Rams
Away: Bears, Lions, Vikings, Raiders, Falcons, Panthers, Broncos, Lions, Giants, Steelers

Outside of the Chiefs, the 2023 schedule doesn't look all that bad. Good year to break in Love.

The Vikings will play the Bengals, 49ers, and Eagles--instead of the Steelers, Rams, and Giants. The Lions will play the Ravens, Seahawks, and Cowboys. The Bears aren't really relevant, but they will play the Browns, Cardinals, and Commanders.

[Joemailman]

Look at the bright side. We were spared another playoff loss to the 49ers.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Look at the bright side. We were spared another playoff loss to the 49ers.

Word.

They say you can’t be prom king if you ain’t in the dance. But a playoff loss is actually more painful than not making the playoffs at all. It’s easier on the mind knowing you ain’t got a shot at Jennifer Lawrence than knowing you had a shot at her but fucked it up.

That being said, fuck the Detroit Pussies and their redneck, F150-driving coach! I hope the Packers fuck them to hell twice next season!

[call_me_ishmael]

Is Mason Crosby washed? IDK, he seems to be a solid 45 and under kicker, but is really bad from 50+.

https://twitter.com/RobDemovsky/status/1612286936831623168

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Home: Bears, Lions, Vikings, Buccaneers, Saints, Chiefs, Chargers, Rams
Away: Bears, Lions, Vikings, Raiders, Falcons, Panthers, Broncos, Lions, Giants, Steelers

Outside of the Chiefs, the 2023 schedule doesn't look all that bad. Good year to break in Love.

The Vikings will play the Bengals, 49ers, and Eagles--instead of the Steelers, Rams, and Giants. The Lions will play the Ravens, Seahawks, and Cowboys. The Bears aren't really relevant, but they will play the Browns, Cardinals, and Commanders.

NFC East was the worst division last season. All 4 teams almost made the playoffs this year. Point being, it ain’t gonna be easy.

[call_me_ishmael]

Does anyone else feel like LaFleur turtles up in must-win situations? Kind of the opposite of McCarthy to some extent there, who I think generally had folks rise to the occasion.

[King Friday]

Does anyone else feel like LaFleur turtles up in must-win situations? Kind of the opposite of McCarthy to some extent there, who I think generally had folks rise to the occasion.

So that last INT from Rodgers is due to MLF “turtle” syndrome? MLF deserves criticism for this year, but clearly more of the blame for turtle time has to rest on 12. When was the last time he came up big in a critical game? Rodgers only wants to run the offense his way and it showed heavily this season. Looked shockingly similar to Favre’s final year in Green Bay.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Yet another disappointing end to the season. Many questions now and few if any answers. Should be an interesting off season..

[Fritz]

There is blame enough for most everyone. Early in the game when the Packers went for it on fourth down in their own territory - what the hell kind of play call was that? Calling an east-west run play with Lazard?

Aaron Jones's fumble was a killer. That was, at the least, a six-point swing.

Doubs's drop toward the end when they needed the first down was also killer. He could have gotten a big big gain had he hung on.

MLF never being able to solve the red-zone problems. He didn't have many answers this year, and when he did (Kesean Nixon, Joe Barry making adjustments) they came awfully late.

That last interception - why was there no outlet in the middle of the field for Rodgers? That space was so wide open. I thought that was one of the fundamentals of breaking a blitz - throw it to the area the blitzers came from.

Rodgers is not playing very well. He looks old now, and really misses lots of open receivers. He threw some real head-scratchers in that game. Outplayed by Goff, who was not great but was good enough.

The offensive line was pretty awful, though. What a mess. The offensive line coach pooped the bed. Stenavich seemed over his head as offensive coordinator. And mine you, they had their preferred line out there at the beginning of the game.

Kesean Nixon seemed to forget what got him the success he'd had in earlier games. Watch some film - the dude would catch the ball and get up the field. Against Detroit, he went east and west way too much.

My buddy and I commented last night that watching that game was pretty typical of watching a Packers' game for most of the year. Stalling offense, defense can't quite get them over the hump, uneven special teams, turnovers. Reminded me of the Commanders game, for one. Or the first Detroit game.

I for one am more than ready to move on from Rodgers. All the moaners out there during the Thompson regime who complained constantly that ol' Ted wouldn't cook the cap to try for that one big year - well, that's what Gute did. He brought in FA's, pacified Rodgers, pushed the team t salary cap hell for the next couple of years, and how'd that work out? 8 - 9. I would've preferred 8 - 9 if they'd played Love to see what they had for sure.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

I wonder how long before 12 announces his intentions? Earlier would be better I would think..

[jklowan]

Biggest mistake this year was not trading Rodgers for the haul Denver got. 8-9 with Love and a shit ton of picks would feel alot better this morning. Now AR retires and we get nothing, hopefully the D played bad enough last nite to seal the d co-ordinator getting fired Barry gotta go, AR gotta go, time for a fresh start.

[ThunderDan]

That last interception - why was there no outlet in the middle of the field for Rodgers? That space was so wide open. I thought that was one of the fundamentals of breaking a blitz - throw it to the area the blitzers came from.


He had Lazard breaking across the middle open by a step right at the first down marker.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Biggest mistake this year was not trading Rodgers for the haul Denver got. 8-9 with Love and a shit ton of picks would feel alot better this morning.

Mostly agree.

The positive for the future could be the maturing receivers. 2022 was transition year with loss of Adams. They have a stud TE who got healthy thru 2022.

I think Rodgers is done, altho maybe for cap reasons he hangs on another season. It would have been helpful to the franchise if Rodgers' thumb injury was a little worse so Love could be tested for a few games.

[Harlan Huckleby]

BTW, I don't think Rodger's problem is reading defenses. That just seems unlikely. I think it's his legs. In his prime, AR erred on the side of holding the ball too long. Most of the time it paid off. Now that he is not so nimble or swift footed he can't buy extra time, and he is unloading the ball a bit sooner. He doesn't have as much time to read the field. He's not as brave - for good reason.

[Fosco33]

Dropped passes, personal fouls, dumb plays, interception and fumble really killed us. Didn’t deserve to win…

Masons long FGA
Not challenged the potential INT
Douglas making a fg 15 yards closer
Quay… wth
-2 in turnover margins

I would’ve been fine going to SF w/ no expectations of winning and seeing if you could shock them. Now we’re left with what to do’s…

Barry, Bahk, Mason are gone
I’m guessing Cobb and Rodgers are a package deal - part of me thinks they’ll retire but I’d be fine w/ trading.

[Teamcheez1]

I think this humorous take on Rodgers sums up some of my feelings about him.

https://deadspin.com/aaron-rodgers-ended-the-packers-season-interception-1849964853

[call_me_ishmael]

So that last INT from Rodgers is due to MLF “turtle” syndrome? MLF deserves criticism for this year, but clearly more of the blame for turtle time has to rest on 12. When was the last time he came up big in a critical game? Rodgers only wants to run the offense his way and it showed heavily this season. Looked shockingly similar to Favre’s final year in Green Bay.

The INT isn't but the team in general just did not look ready to play. Where was the innovation on offense? What about defense? This was a must-win game at home in the cold and they couldn't stop or scheme there way out against the pass rush.

Favre's final year in GB was outstanding aside from the last game. Rodgers kind of looked meh all year IMO. I think Rodgers really didn't have much as far as receivers and folks overrate Doubs and Watson this year. Lazard is a weird case because I don't think he's a difference maker but he is valuable to this team with his blocking.

[Deputy Nutz]

Rodgers is terrible against Cover 2. Can't read the safety. Both his INTS(one called back on penalty) was because he didn't pick up the safety.

Rodgers's contract was guaranteed. his cap hit will be the same whether he plays or not in 2023 which is like 53 million. OUCH!!!

Lion's pass rush was a problem all night and the Packers couldn't adapt their passing game because the Lions really didn't bring more than 4 or 5 all night.

Lions beat the Packers up front, Packers couldn't rely on running the ball when they needed less than 3 yards for a TD or a first down. Lions played with nothing to lose, they were more dangerous because they didn't care if they lost, they had nothing to lose and pulled out all the stops. Going 9-8 was damn successful season for them.

Also undisciplined bullshit severely cost the Packers a playoff berth. Douglas and Walker penalties directly led to points that the Packers could not afford to give up. Do I blame MLF? It's his team and those are the types of things he has to answer for.

[ThunderDan]

NFC East was the worst division last season. All 4 teams almost made the playoffs this year. Point being, it ain’t gonna be easy.

never mind.

[run pMc]

When a team plays undisciplined, that's a coaching issue IMO. They've played that way for large parts of the season.

Kirby Joseph must have an invisibility cloak or something, that dude has 3 picks on Rodgers this year. For some corners, that's a good career vs. Rodgers.

Rodgers is bad vs. Cover 2. That's not new. Defenses have shifted to more of it this year, that's allegedly at least part of why scoring was down around the league. Every team's playbook has Cover-2 beaters. Tonyan can't run the seam well still, which is a problem but not the only way to beat Cover 2. You'd think by now Rodgers would adjust his game to play against it, but I think he's stubborn to adapt his game, period. He still has elements of McCarthy-offense and hero ball in his game. I don't know if he'll be back. I do know that he had a bad year (for him) and that's both by the eye test and looking at the stats. Aside from Year 2 leaps from Watson-Doubs-Toure and health on the OL, I'm not sure there's much else to point to as reasons he might play better next season. The thumb, rib, etc. bothered him this year...but even when healthier he wasn't playing great. He's still an above average QB, but he's not elite.

Did they deserve to win?

They had turnovers that were very costly. The bad 4th down call early, the fumble, and the late interception. Lots of questions for this team in the offseason.

[KYPack]

Good to see the old Deputy back on the site...

This mornings PFT had a piece on Rodger's contract that was even worse than we've been talking about. The hit for 23 for Rodgers is just shy of 60 million fully guaranteed. I've also seen reports that Love's contract for the upcoming 5th year is 20 million. (Checked Spotrac, Love is just North of 4 mill for '23) That equates to bye bye Bahk. Out salary structure can't support that many 20 million dollar deals.

Somebody fill me in on what in the hell Douglas was doing on that kick attempt. I've never seen the wing on a kick block team go in and fool with the snapper. Also, didn't the refs call a penalty on the LIons while that play was going on?

We had two substitutions for starters in the game for performance issues. Ford was subbed by Savage going back to his ole spot after Ford revealed himself to being slow as an oar barge on Lake Michigan. Also Tom was hustled in for Nijman after Hutchinson went ape shit. We need to move Nijman back to LT and let Tom start at RT.

Quay Walker wins the Lunkhead of the Year award for twice being ejected for hitting sideline personnel. Can he really be that lame?

At least the ballclub is being spared the indignity of another ass whoopin in SF at the hands of the Whiners.

God, this is a bad feeling.

[NewsBruin]

I hoped to trade Rodgers for picks and players, but I honestly enjoyed seeing him sail deep shots all throughout this game. He makes those long throws seem effortless. I really hope that his midseason inaccuracy was due to his thumb and perhaps his side.

Another offseason of reflection and more psychoactive drugs won't make him a better teammate, but I think he should still have good release, range, and accuracy for a few more seasons. I'm sure his trade value and TV value have dropped off a cliff since last season. I hate for Rodgers to have no good options for 2023, but we need to see what we can get for him.

[texaspackerbacker]

Well, the haters are riding high now. APB, same as you, I pretty much consider this shitty NFL season over and done with too. The one exception would be if my second favorite team, the Cowboys, go anywhere in the playoffs, and based on how they stunk it up yesterday, chances of that are looking grim. McCarthy brought back a lot of bad Packer memories - over and over and over again, wasting first and second down just running it into the line and putting pressure on the QB to bail things out. Yesterday at least, Dak failed miserably at that scenario that Rodgers had to live with for over a decade.

These dumbasses wanting to "move on" need to be careful what they wish for. Last night we saw an overall mediocre Lions team that actually had a real O Line and a fairly decent D Line too completely outclass the Packers on the line of scrimmage.

Yes, Barry is hopefully gone - but I wouldn't bet the house on that. Yes, Crosby too, although if he retires, I hope they keep him on speed dial - maybe even make him an assistant coach, in case the new guy gets hurt or just gets in a prolonged slump. Hell no, don't get rid of Aaron Jones. I suspect he's got way more than just a couple more good years left, and he is the kind of RB we/any team needs. Dillon, on the other hand, is kinda the "sacred cow" of RBs - overrated. He is not even as good as Jamal Williams, much less Aaron Jones. I'm not sure I wouldn't rather have Patrick Taylor playing than Dillon. As I said, the haters got some fuel with the way Rodgers played last night and most of the season, but I fully expect him to be back next season (and well beyond that) and when healed up, to be back to his old GOATish self.

[Joemailman]

Can't finish.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmCj4DaWAAAJvId?format=jpg&name=small

[red]

yeah, thats what i asked in the gDT, when was the last time he had a really good game in the playoffs or late in the season when we needed it?

[Deputy Nutz]

Usually QBs don't play well in their last game of the season because the team usually loses. It's a QB league. Now I won't defend Rodgers play, Its borderline average to awful at times. I struggle to see him take over games, put the team on his shoulders, and pull out wins during the 2023 season. He played the game soft this season and we can only ponder if it was the early season injuries, or if he is just trying to protect himself and his job. The Packers are not in a financial position to let him go or to move on from Rodgers, and I don't think you would really want to. Unfortunately I don't think Rodgers has the off season work ethic of a Tom Brady which for someone owed close to 60 million is really too bad for the Packers. I don't see him getting a whole lot better from the 2023 season if he continues to play,

[NewsBruin]

I did enjoy De'Andre's failed hurdle attempt.

Ah, Herr we go: https://twitter.com/Someone20241575/status/1612295901002825729?s=20&t=uO5EMZRs411Caq0YW0Fe5A

[bobblehead]

i think we have a real nice start with watson and doubs, and lazard is fine as a #3 or 4

we have always needed a real pass catching TE

and then we need a QB who will throw to the guys when they're open

I hate to talk free agency when we are strapped up against the cap, but Mike Gesicki of Miami is a very athletic slot type TE that was ascending until the new coaching staff decided he should be an inline blocker. Given the horrible season he just put up he might come for a very reasonable price.

[bobblehead]

could you trade jones?

he's reaching THAT age. maybe only one or two good years left

a SB contender might be willing to trade for him

I would like to see a Miami type blowup/rebuild. Trade Jones, Bak, Rodgers if he wants to play another year. Trade Savage for a 7th since you already gave the 5th year option. Spend next year in cap hell with youth gaining experience then be ready to sign a key piece or 2 in 2024 with Love having a year under his belt as the starter. They have really good young talent, but a cap reword is necessary at this point.

[Teamcheez1]

Rodgers has the Packers right where he wants them. The more I read and think about this, AR is too vain to retire and remove himself from the spotlight. That and $60M will be very difficult for him to move on from. He might accept a trade, but not likely.

Maybe he is ready to call it quits, but it would surprise me if he did.

[Sparkey]

Get rid of all of his guys. Help him make a choice. No Luxury Automobile, Crosby, Cobb, Lazard, Tonyan, Bahktiari....

[Joemailman]

Get rid of all of his guys. Help him make a choice. No Luxury Automobile, Crosby, Cobb, Lazard, Tonyan, Bahktiari....

I'm with you except for Tonyan and Bakhtiari. Tonyan showed some signs the last few weeks of being his 2020 self, and Bakh is back.

[call_me_ishmael]

I'm with you except for Tonyan and Bakhtiari. Tonyan showed some signs the last few weeks of being his 2020 self, and Bakh is back.

Money Mase is a free agent anyway, so I think they could resign him for a small fraction of the price or move on. My guess is they move on, but if ARod returns maybe they bring him back for a milly or something. That feels fair. If LA wants to return, why wouldn't they do that for a cheap deal? Dude is a really great blocker, where's the problem?

[sharpe1027]

Tonyan looked better, but that's saying very little.

[run pMc]

I think Crosby is done. His leg isn't what it used to be.
Big Dog will be back if he wants to be the oldest TE in history or whatever. They like his blocking and locker room presence.
Would rather have Bahk than Tonyan, honestly. Tonyan didn't show a lot this year, other than his speed is gone. Maybe you bring him if there's no FA interest and the draft doesn't fall your way, but I wouldn't rush to do it. 3rd and Cobb is fun but well past his prime. Lazard will get overpaid by CHI as they basically try to copy GBs tall WR fetish but with less success.

[RashanGary]

Get rid of all of his guys. Help him make a choice. No Luxury Automobile, Crosby, Cobb, Lazard, Tonyan, Bahktiari....

Haha!!! Make that fucker miserable! And I like Rodgers, but his contract pisses me off. He had two MVP seasons and put the screws straight to Gute. He forced that contract and now he’s declining. Ouch. We’re fucked.

[RashanGary]

Rodgers blew up the Packers winning ways. He talked about “no loyalty” and “people problems” from the Packers brass. He highlighted all the times the Packers low balled, cut, traded and moved on from long term, hard working, loyal players. He didn’t mention all the names, but Sitton, Lang, Bulaga, Nelson, Matthew’s, Cobb, etc. He watched it all go down and resentment built.

Rodgers is a 39 year old man who’s spent almost all of his adult life around the most cut throat work environment in the country. He had enough and wasn’t going to be another name on the list of those screwed over by the Packers. He was going to act and get his. And he did.

And not only did he get his, but he spread the word around the locker room. Adams, Lazard, Bakh, Cobb, Mercedes…. The guy isn’t married and has no kids. The lockerroom is his family when he’s in football season. You better believe Rodgers spread the word. He cares about those guys and he told them all…. Take every penny because they will fuck you over as soon as they find a young cheap guy to replace you!

Adams was like, yeah, fuck you guys, I’m out. Lazard isn’t gonna take a team friendly deal. Rodgers has spread the word that there’s no loyalty in the Packers organization and you damn well better suck every dime out of them.

The entire culture in the Packers locker room is to get yours now. They all know. They’ve heard it from Rodgers what a prick Gute is.

Gute better draft well because after Rodgers influence, it’ll be 5 years before he signs another team friendly deal. He’s not gonna win with good contracts. Bet on that one.

[red]

its funny you mention the team is like his family

he doesn't talk to his family anymore cause he once heard that one of them didn't like like the chick he was dating like 7 chicks ago

[Bretsky]

I'm with you except for Tonyan and Bakhtiari. Tonyan showed some signs the last few weeks of being his 2020 self, and Bakh is back.

I don't see the upside of Tonyan as a TE; I'd like a top pass receiver there. I'll take him back if the price is right

[Bretsky]

Haha!!! Make that fucker miserable! And I like Rodgers, but his contract pisses me off. He had two MVP seasons and put the screws straight to Gute. He forced that contract and now he’s declining.

I really think his mindset may have changed once Adams left. He was then out for nothing but himself.

[Joemailman]

I don't see the upside of Tonyan as a TE; I'd like a top pass receiver there. I'll take him back if the price is right

I think they can get him on a pretty low 1 year deal. I'd like to see them keep him and draft a TE in the 2-4 round.

[Bretsky]

I think they can get him on a pretty low 1 year deal. I'd like to see them keep him and draft a TE in the 2-4 round.

I am game for that as well; thinking maybe 4 MIL/Yr. Not sure he's worth much more. And then get a receiving TE with upside and some speed

Oh, and draft a WR in Round 1 :))))

[call_me_ishmael]

I sincerely doubt he is getting 4M per year. I was thinking vet minimum.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't see the upside of Tonyan as a TE; I'd like a top pass receiver there. I'll take him back if the price is right

Tonyan is a cornerstone. Pass catching TEs are hard to replace.

ps. were you one of the people who wanted the packers to let Jared Cook go?

[Joemailman]

I sincerely doubt he is getting 4M per year. I was thinking vet minimum.

He'll get more than vet minimum. Made 2.4 million last year. 3 million sounds about right for 2023

[run pMc]

Tonyan is a cornerstone. Pass catching TEs are hard to replace.

ps. were you one of the people who wanted the packers to let Jared Cook go?

I wouldn't call him a cornerstone. He'll be 29 and had one good year. He catches everything and 12 trusts him, but he throws to him like 3 times a game.
He's a meh blocker... I'd say a TE who can run, block and catch is hard to find and replace.
They have Austin Allen on the PS now, he can catch.

FWIW there are several 6-5 250lb TE who can run and catch in the draft. Mayer can supposedly even block. Musgrave, Kincaid, LaPorta, Kraft all are possibilities, and Darnell Washington is a moose who supposedly can block.

I don't think Tonyan is a must-sign or a cornerstone. I'd bring him back if he doesn't get a lot of interest, but I don't think there's really any upside with him and you'll get next year what you got this year out of him. If you think that's good enough you're going to need big contributions elsewhere in the passing game, because it wasn't enough last year. The offense is what ultimately let this team down.

[King Friday]

Tonyan is aging, which saps him off the few traits that make him serviceable. Our offense was miserable in the red zone this year because he was not the same TE he once was. It is a mistake to think he will suddenly return to form for anything more than short bursts at this point. His ceiling is now minimal, and his floor is descending. Why invest in that? Cut bait, and seek to find something with more potential.

[call_me_ishmael]

I'm willing to take a flyer on him - he was fresh off of the ACL. I do think they need to add some juice to that room via a draft pick.

[Bretsky]

Tonyan is a cornerstone. Pass catching TEs are hard to replace.

ps. were you one of the people who wanted the packers to let Jared Cook go?


NO

[run pMc]

Not a Packer among them.
https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2023-free-agent-rankings-free-agency

They actually have a lot of players under contract for 2023, but I expect bargain bin diving and draft picks to backfill the roster.

Keisean Nixon might be the top priority to resign, depending on who you ask.

[texaspackerbacker]

Not much on that list I'd want the Packers to be interested in. I guess I agree, they need to re-sign Nixon, but not for too much. He gets injured pretty easy, and it's possible he just got lucky on those long returns.

[run pMc]

Not much on that list I'd want the Packers to be interested in. I guess I agree, they need to re-sign Nixon, but not for too much. He gets injured pretty easy, and it's possible he just got lucky on those long returns.

You had me until the last sentence.
Running back a 93 yarder and then a 105 yarder back to back weeks and being named AP All Pro in a half season may be a hot streak, but I wouldn't call it luck. Just ask GB's prior 10 years' worth of returners. That's like saying Aaron Jones' long runs are pure luck and any RB off the street could do the same, implying he's not worth keeping.

I do think you can find dynamic returners but you have to look harder than GB has in the past. Nixon is a nice player but I wouldn't throw crazy money at him. If he gets a big contract elsewhere good for him and I wish him well.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm hopeful Nixon really is that good, and yeah, given the recent past among Packer kick and punt returners, I hope they keep him. But on those returns, basically the coverage just parted like the Red Sea, and he was gone. Against the Lions, he looked pretty ordinary. As for a Jones comparison, you can see Jones jumpcutting and sometimes breaking tackles like Dillon doesn't and Nixon basically didn't need to do.

[flamacue]

I would do the radical change. I’d get a good coach and general manager and get then get Purdy from the 49ers. Probably not a popular stance on here.

[bobblehead]

I would do the radical change. I’d get a good coach and general manager and get then get Purdy from the 49ers. Probably not a popular stance on here.

Lol....probably not a popular stance anywhere.

[Joemailman]

I would do the radical change. I’d get a good coach and general manager and get then get Purdy from the 49ers. Probably not a popular stance on here.

Good idea. Maybe 49ers will let us have Lynch and Kyle Shanahan.

[call_me_ishmael]

What is John Lynch doing that everyone else isn't? How are the Niners so good at drafting these days?

[run pMc]

What is John Lynch doing that everyone else isn't? How are the Niners so good at drafting these days?

Are they? Ask SF fans how they feel about Trey Lance and the draft capital they gave up.
They went thru a string of bad years where they had a ton of R1 picks on the OL under Harbaugh, then the DL as Shanahan took over. Those bad years gave them chances to draft early.

They were in position to draft Aiyuk, who GB liked, and Deebo before that. Kittle they lucked into as a Day 3 pick. I know people here liked him but I don't think anybody thought he'd turn out like he did. Fred Warner was picked a few spots (to my chagrin) earlier than Oren Burks.

Some of that was Trent Baalke. Lynch has been pretty good but as with all GMs he's had his share of missteps along the way. They cut Trey Sermon pretty fast, Kinlaw hasn't been as good of a replacement as DeForest Buckner, etc.

I'd say they've done very well with their coaches lately: Shanahan, Saleh, McDaniels, Ryans. If you're drafting talented athletes, coaching them the scheme's concepts properly and putting them in position to succeed matters. That last part is something I question GB's coaches do consistently well (or at all in Joe Barry's case).

[MadtownPacker]

What is John Lynch doing that everyone else isn't? How are the Niners so good at drafting these days?
They aren’t showing undying loyalty to a QB once he starts sucking?

[Fritz]

They aren’t showing undying loyalty to a QB once he starts sucking?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

As Larry the Cable Guy would say, that is some funny shit right there.

And true.

[call_me_ishmael]

Most folks seem to think Brady is _not_ retiring, which I think makes it more likely that Rodgers does. Although I still think he plays next year too, and Brady plays for several more years since he threw his non-football life away for the game.

[Joemailman]

Sounds like Rodgers wants to stay with the Packers as long as they keep his guys. Lewis, Cobb, Tonyan, Bakhtiari. https://twitter.com/i/status/1615437838446907392

[red]

Sounds like Rodgers wants to stay with the Packers as long as they keep his guys. Lewis, Cobb, Tonyan, Bakhtiari. https://twitter.com/i/status/1615437838446907392

team needs to immediately say all those players will not be coming back

stop allowing yourself to be extorted by a regressing QB

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Sounds like Rodgers wants to stay with the Packers as long as they keep his guys. Lewis, Cobb, Tonyan, Bakhtiari. https://twitter.com/i/status/1615437838446907392

Then the Packers should cut a couple of them..

[Fosco33]

Sounds like Rodgers wants to stay with the Packers as long as they keep his guys. Lewis, Cobb, Tonyan, Bakhtiari. https://twitter.com/i/status/1615437838446907392

I think he was right about Cobb. I like Bobby. Lazard is a good 3.

I’m on record saying Bahk is unreliable but not sure what we can do with him. Lewis? Heck, if he wants a Mercedes and Giannis can have his whole family - f it.

Minute 130 of that interview is spot on.

[call_me_ishmael]

I 100% got the sense from that interview that he's gonna be traded.

[NewsBruin]

Pussies didn’t play their top corner. I think they had their 3rd/4th corners out there. In the past, Butte woulda feasted on them scrubs. Then again, in the past, Butte threw to Driver, Jennings, Nelson, J-Mike, a young Cobb and Adams.

This could be the end. And in the end, it’s all about the Love you’re sending out, to borrow Coldplay.

I would have paid #10 like five dollars to have the CHOOSE LOVE message on the back of his helmet this season.

[Joemailman]

I would have paid #10 like five dollars to have the CHOOSE LOVE message on the back of his helmet this season.

Cobb did.

https://scontent-msp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/306919169_10159868986770073_5697248959034019567_n. jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=LU9dP4s91o0AX_4hh0Q&_nc_ht=scontent-msp1-1.xx&oh=00_AfDr1Y8GewI0DzUYdkFq9ktN-09pAeelKLkTIwCLgrOebA&oe=63CCB7AD

[Joemailman]

Love did feel they needed a change at QB.

https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/w_736,h_485,c_fill,g_auto,f_auto/https%3A%2F%2Fnflspinzone.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fgetty-images%2F2018%2F08%2F1351907720-850x560.jpeg

[Joemailman]

I 100% got the sense from that interview that he's gonna be traded.

Could be. Andy Herman with an interesting question.



Andy Herman
@AndyHermanNFL

Rodgers feels like he can win MVP in the right situation but he wasn’t close to MVP last year, which makes me think, that he thinks, he wasn’t in the right situation

Praised Cobb, Watson, Tonyan, Lazard, Bakh & Lewis

So what does he want changed to be back & play like an MVP ������

[sharpe1027]

Wow. That sounds like he's half out the door and getting ready to pin the blame for why on the Packers organization.

[call_me_ishmael]

I mean to be fair I think we can all agree the supporting cast was not very good this year. They had Aaron Jones, Bak a few games, and that’s it. The rest were average or below average players.

[Bretsky]

I mean to be fair I think we can all agree the supporting cast was not very good this year. They had Aaron Jones, Bak a few games, and that’s it. The rest were average or below average players.


Supporting cast was sub par due to Gutebag neglecting getting AROD a #2 WR for many years

Also, Rodgers made nobody better this year.

Today's interview was pretty sickening.

[Joemailman]

Rodgers acted in that interview like he's doing everyone in Green Bay a huge favor by considering coming back. I wonder if he has any sense at all of how many Packer fans have tired of his act and would be just fine with him leaving.

[woodbuck27]

Yes. I like him in the Green and Gold.

[woodbuck27]

Yup.

[woodbuck27]

Hahahaaha

[Bretsky]

Rodgers acted in that interview like he's doing everyone in Green Bay a huge favor by considering coming back. I wonder if he has any sense at all of how many Packer fans have tired of his act and would be just fine with him leaving.


SO TRUE

Gutebag had a telling interview last week that told me he really doesn't care to let Sharon Abuse him anymore. Take some time, and decide if you want to come back and be a dedicated Green Bay Packer. Ball is in your court. And it's even be appreciated if anybody came to the OTA's and was a devoted teammate. Everything Sharon didn't want to hear.

Sharon used him media bitch (the one G'd Dam Media guy I know) to take a piss on Gutebag's message and throw back he wants no part of being part of a rebuilding process (hint hint, bring Sharon's boyz back and others) and clearly he's going drama queen and wants to feel wanted.
Well, aside from the ridiculously structured contract that essentially married Gutebag to Sharon as long as he played. If Sharon doesn't get what he wants, he'd be open to a divorce but he's keeping all the ching....like a bug forwarded inheritance.... Well played, very well played

[woodbuck27]

Aaron Rodgers wasn't given a generous Contract Extension so that he could win another NFL MVP Award. As a 4 Time MVP he was paid to be a Team Player and Leader.

The Drama is on. What other NFL Team would embrace his tiring drama? He needs to find some Big Boy Pants.He'll be back next Season.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Rodgers acted in that interview like he's doing everyone in Green Bay a huge favor by considering coming back. I wonder if he has any sense at all of how many Packer fans have tired of his act and would be just fine with him leaving.

So you’re telling me, management won’t give a fuck if I quit burger flipping? I ready know that, hombre.

Next week Saturday, a day where the joint is usually short-staffed, gonna clock in and then immediately clock out just to fuck with management. There’s a 4 attendance strikes and terminate policy. Overslept last month cos I spent all day pissing away frogskins at the poker tables. Have 1 strike, so still have 3 more to spare. Fuck burger flipping.

Enough about moi. Starting to sound like Bobble, a narcissist. Without Butte, Packers woulda sucked and German Shepherd woulda been so unattractive, he never woulda gotten his current gig in the first place. Krause never won shit without Jordan. Packers would not have won shit without Butte. Be careful what you wish for.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Aaron Rodgers wasn't given a generous Contract Extension so that he could win another NFL MVP Award. As a 4 Time MVP he was paid to be a Team Player and Leader.

The Drama is on. What other NFL Team would embrace his tiring drama? He needs to find some Big Boy Pants.He'll be back next Season.

S’up, Woody.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Aaron Rodgers wasn't given a generous Contract Extension so that he could win another NFL MVP Award. As a 4 Time MVP he was paid to be a Team Player and Leader.

The Drama is on. What other NFL Team would embrace his tiring drama? He needs to find some Big Boy Pants.He'll be back next Season.

Nice to see you again woody, rumor had it you went to the big packer game in the sky..

[Der Lehrer]

50+ million for a below average QB isn't bad enough. We have to carry 30+ million in the largely washed up entourage? Give me a break.

If we take that flotsam into training camp we are as unserious about winning next season as we were this season.

[Fosco33]

It’s like y’all don’t have a clue what’s it like to sign a contract. Somehow it’s Aaron’s fault that Gute gave him an extension with player friendly terms? That shits funny af

[Fritz]

It’s like y’all don’t have a clue what’s it like to sign a contract. Somehow it’s Aaron’s fault that Gute gave him an extension with player friendly terms? That shits funny af

Lots of posters here are blaming Gutes for kowtowing to Rodgers. I don't think anyone is saying that it's Rodgers's fault.

But some people are saying that for a guy that is already filthy rich and says he's all about winning, it's a bummer that he still feels the need to get paid the crazy amount he's getting while bitching that he won't be part of a rebuild. He is dictating terms to the GM - he wants Cobb, Lazard, etc. all back, or maybe he won't come back, all of that - but he's hamstrung the GM with that contract.

My hope is that Rodgers will be traded after June 1st and we can be done with him. I really don't care if he goes somewhere else and wins a championship - though I seriously doubt that would happen. I'm just done with him being the de facto GM, done with him making pronouncements on what should or shouldn't be done, done with him setting all the conditions. He wants to be the highest paid QB in the league, AND he wants a Star-studded surrounding cast, AND he doesn't seem to take responsibility about his role in this past season's crumminess.

I'm just done.

[ThunderDan]

It’s like y’all don’t have a clue what’s it like to sign a contract. Somehow it’s Aaron’s fault that Gute gave him an extension with player friendly terms? That shits funny af
Having an NFL player as a client of our firm, I do know how this works.

I don't blame ARod one bit for getting every dollar that he can. What I am sick of is listening to all his shit during the offseason about how Green Bay is disrespecting him and needs to keep certain players. How he goes on the McAfee show and talks about how he could be an MVP if the situation is right and who knows if it is in Green Bay or not. Hearing him talk about putting certain high price pieces in place to support him and then not giving the team any room to help make those acquisitions.

If you wanted the money and took it that is fine, but stop pretending that you have done the franchise any favors.

[Fritz]

Let's contrast that with another highly-paid Green Bay player at a different position: nose tackle.

After the Pat McAfee interview with Rodgers, and all the BS that Rodgers spewed, I read a piece on PackersWire about Kenny Clark saying he needs to be more consistent next year, needs to do so in part to be a better example to his young line mates, was disappointed in his own play this past season against the run.

[George Cumby]

I'm just done.

+1

[bobblehead]

Lots of posters here are blaming Gutes for kowtowing to Rodgers. I don't think anyone is saying that it's Rodgers's fault.

But some people are saying that for a guy that is already filthy rich and says he's all about winning, it's a bummer that he still feels the need to get paid the crazy amount he's getting while bitching that he won't be part of a rebuild. He is dictating terms to the GM - he wants Cobb, Lazard, etc. all back, or maybe he won't come back, all of that - but he's hamstrung the GM with that contract.

My hope is that Rodgers will be traded after June 1st and we can be done with him. I really don't care if he goes somewhere else and wins a championship - though I seriously doubt that would happen. I'm just done with him being the de facto GM, done with him making pronouncements on what should or shouldn't be done, done with him setting all the conditions. He wants to be the highest paid QB in the league, AND he wants a Star-studded surrounding cast, AND he doesn't seem to take responsibility about his role in this past season's crumminess.

I'm just done.

I'm mostly with you. We just saw what the packers with a bad QB look like. I doubt Love would be worse than Rodgers was this season. He was bottom 5 in total QBR I believe (could be wrong...he was after like 12 weeks for sure).

[MadtownPacker]

Having an NFL player as a client of our firm, I do know how this works.

I don't blame ARod one bit for getting every dollar that he can. What I am sick of is listening to all his shit during the offseason about how Green Bay is disrespecting him and needs to keep certain players. How he goes on the McAfee show and talks about how he could be an MVP if the situation is right and who knows if it is in Green Bay or not. Hearing him talk about putting certain high price pieces in place to support him and then not giving the team any room to help make those acquisitions.

If you wanted the money and took it that is fine, but stop pretending that you have done the franchise any favors.
Wow, sounds like Erron wishes he was the Lebron of the NFL.

[bobblehead]

Rodgers acted in that interview like he's doing everyone in Green Bay a huge favor by considering coming back. I wonder if he has any sense at all of how many Packer fans have tired of his act and would be just fine with him leaving.

His act, while annoying doesn't bother me at all. His play on the field on the other hand....

[bobblehead]

50+ million for a below average QB isn't bad enough. We have to carry 30+ million in the largely washed up entourage? Give me a break.

If we take that flotsam into training camp we are as unserious about winning next season as we were this season.

So you think this years team wasn't serious about winning because we came into the season with reigning 2x MVP? Because we had what many considered the best roster in forever?

I'll give you credit for the first part of the post though, addressed in my next reply a bit more.

[bobblehead]

It’s like y’all don’t have a clue what’s it like to sign a contract. Somehow it’s Aaron’s fault that Gute gave him an extension with player friendly terms? That shits funny af

True, but if you are going to sign that deal, it gets really silly to demand that the team sign all your buddies who are mostly well past their prime and also want the best deal they can get. Its a salary cap era. Resources are limited despite what some try to argue. If you want to WIN you don't sign a deal that puts the team in cap hell, then insist they also carry several players who simply aren't that good anymore.

No, its not his fault he grabbed the most cash he could. It IS his fault that he then whines that the team committed the sin of not putting the "right situation" around him to win another MVP award. Honestly, this team was mostly healthy by week 18 with a win and in game. The team had come around. The defense was playing well. But the QB play to get into the playoffs is what was lacking and his inability to admit that has made MOST of the fan base ready for him to move on.

Again, if you glazed over my post. He grabbed the money, played for shit despite a pretty good roster and is now crying about it.

[bobblehead]

Wow, sounds like Erron wishes he was the Lebron of the NFL.

LeBron had more success when he was playing great and dictating terms less. He is still great, but not otherworldly and the high priced talent he maneuvered onto the roster was a bad fit for his style of play (and hurt all the time).

If Rodgers could go full Elway and become a game manager at this stage we probably would have won 12 games.

[call_me_ishmael]

LeBron is still one of the best players in the NBA in a much more physically demanding position. Aaron wishes he had LeBron's dedication to his craft.

Was Aaron not a game manager this year? He didn't have 300 yards once. They didn't really rely on his arm. They relied on Aaron Jones.

[call_me_ishmael]

Again, if you glazed over my post. He grabbed the money, played for shit despite a pretty good roster and is now crying about it.

I think that Aaron thinks those players are better than maybe you or others do. I think Cobb would find a spot on a roster somewhere for sure. Lewis has his role and if the other two TE were any good there'd be no prob with him having that role.

I disagree the roster was pretty good. Offensively it was hot garbage earlier in the year. It settled in later in the year. They had AJO on offense and that was about it.

[Fritz]

I think that Aaron thinks those players are better than maybe you or others do. I think Cobb would find a spot on a roster somewhere for sure. Lewis has his role and if the other two TE were any good there'd be no prob with him having that role.

I disagree the roster was pretty good. Offensively it was hot garbage earlier in the year. It settled in later in the year. They had AJO on offense and that was about it.

This may be where one of the posters who's talked about the poor line play this year has a point. The line was unsettled much of the year, and even once they got their preferred five out there, they weren't great. Exhibit A being Nijman in the Lions' game. Sure, Hutchinson is really good, but Nijman has not played that badly in a while - he was a turnstile.

With better O-line play, the Packers get better rushing production in the Detroit game and maybe control the clock. That, and Aaron Jones's fumble was really damaging. That was at least a six-point swing.

[run pMc]

This may be where one of the posters who's talked about the poor line play this year has a point. The line was unsettled much of the year, and even once they got their preferred five out there, they weren't great. Exhibit A being Nijman in the Lions' game. Sure, Hutchinson is really good, but Nijman has not played that badly in a while - he was a turnstile.

With better O-line play, the Packers get better rushing production in the Detroit game and maybe control the clock. That, and Aaron Jones's fumble was really damaging. That was at least a six-point swing.

Njiman was hurt which may have impacted his play, but Hutchinson had him turned around with bad footwork. Yosh has moments like that and I think while Tom gave up a couple of pressures he was an upgrade. Myers got trashed a couple of times by Buggs and McNeil; that was a problem for the running game. Aaron Jones getting stuffed for a yard isn't cutting it.

All year long it seemed like there were 10 players doing ok and 1 who screwed up the play. That's bad execution and to me that feels like a coaching issue. You have to get those guys on the same page, if they aren't you replace them a la Tom for Njiman.

33's fumble was one of the most important plays of the game -- if Bakh gets a better block on Comisky, he doesn't hit Jones, Jones doesn't fumble, and they have a first down deep in Lions territory. Given their RZ woes (another issue) let's say they chew up some clock and get 3 points. It's a 12-3 game at that point. Instead it's 9-6 with DET getting the kickoff to start Q3.

Their scoring and especially the RZ offense has been pretty bad all year; that they couldn't score on the #32 ranked defense in TWO games this year should be an indictment of the offense in itself. IIRC they had something like 25 points off 12 possessions inside the Lions 30 in those games.