Off-season 2023 Banjo

[call_me_ishmael]

Lazard said he’s leaving.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/107qwla/nfl_unlimited_allen_lazard_says_that_he_has/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

[RashanGary]

Gonna miss war daddy. Kid is a baller. He’s a hybrid TE/WR and they used him in that sort of role. He’ll have a long career with the way he blocks and can still be a pass catcher.

[Bretsky]

Lazard said he’s leaving.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/107qwla/nfl_unlimited_allen_lazard_says_that_he_has/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf



Put me in the WFC category; we'll have to find another undrafted FA to replace him. Him starting shows what a shit job Gutebag has done in finding another WR before this year

[Joemailman]

Seems maybe WR's want out of Green Bay. Packers need to figure out why, if they don't already know.

[red]

Seems maybe WR's want out of Green Bay. Packers need to figure out why, if they don't already know.

well theres been stories printed, but because they weren't gobbling on the mighty ones donger, people said it was just made up bullshit

maybe someone will pay him, but he's a #3 or #4, not much more

[HarveyWallbangers]

Lazard said he’s leaving.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/107qwla/nfl_unlimited_allen_lazard_says_that_he_has/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

This is dumb (more the Reddit headline). He never said he was leaving, if you actually listened to the interview.

[Joemailman]

well theres been stories printed, but because they weren't gobbling on the mighty ones donger, people said it was just made up bullshit

maybe someone will pay him, but he's a #3 or #4, not much more

The class of FA WR's is weak, so a good chance Lazard will get overpaid.

[call_me_ishmael]

Seems maybe WR's want out of Green Bay. Packers need to figure out why, if they don't already know.

I think it’s the other way around. Didn’t he want a contract this year and didn’t get one?

[Joemailman]

I think it’s the other way around. Didn’t he want a contract this year and didn’t get one?

Which may be why WR's may eventually want out of Green Bay. Maybe they don't feel Gute recognizes and rewards their value to the team.

[Joemailman]

This is dumb (more the Reddit headline). He never said he was leaving, if you actually listened to the interview.

You may be right. At first listen I thought he was saying he has already decided it was his last game here. But he may have just been saying it was potentially his last game here.

[call_me_ishmael]

This is dumb (more the Reddit headline). He never said he was leaving, if you actually listened to the interview.

Not sure I agree. He said “which it is” IIRC to it being his last game.

[call_me_ishmael]

Which may be why WR's may eventually want out of Green Bay. Maybe they don't feel Gute recognizes and rewards their value to the team.

Good point, it very well could be a thing. I think Lazard is not as valuable to other teams as the Pack. Lunch pail player but I like him around.

[call_me_ishmael]

When is Mark Murphy’s retirement? I have a theory that maybe they will do whatever they can to keep ARod around through that so they keep their jobs through the new guy.

[Joemailman]

When is Mark Murphy’s retirement? I have a theory that maybe they will do whatever they can to keep ARod around through that so they keep their jobs through the new guy.

I think he said he's due to retire in summer of 2025.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Not sure I agree. He said “which it is” IIRC to it being his last game.

"I came to the realization that my first game here and potentially my last game was versus the Lions"

Nowhere in that video did he say "which it is".

[MadScientist]

"I came to the realization that my first game here and potentially my last game was versus the Lions"

Nowhere in that video did he say "which it is".

He says "potentially my last game, which it is". Easy to interpret it as him saying it was his last game, but he's only, accurately, saying it potentially is his last game for the Packers. No intention or desire to leave the organization, but no strong desire to come back either. Often you hear players hoping to be back, but nothing in this case.

He's going to test the waters, no reason for him not to since the Packers won't give him a massive contract. He'll get what he can get, probably elsewhere.

[texaspackerbacker]

As somebody said, he didn't say what the title implies - I think the term for that is click bait. I expect Lazard to be in Green Bay next year and maybe beyond with a respectable but not overly high salary.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Well, I misheard that. Took me three times to listen to that to actually hear it. That's a strange thing to say.

[King Friday]

The only reason people are leaving at this point is because the Packers cap space is almost entirely ate up by a handful of players. Anyone looking to get a top level salary is going to have to look elsewhere at this point, because the Packers won’t be in the market for any more expensive contracts until they dig out from the clusterfuck of Rodgers’ contract.

[run pMc]

The only reason people are leaving at this point is because the Packers cap space is almost entirely ate up by a handful of players. Anyone looking to get a top level salary is going to have to look elsewhere at this point, because the Packers won’t be in the market for any more expensive contracts until they dig out from the clusterfuck of Rodgers’ contract.

True. They have cap issues to sort out, and what they do with the QB will drive many decisions too.
I doubt Lazard's the top priority for them this offseason.

I think they'd like to bring Lazard back; he has more value to certain teams like GB, SF, MIA, LAR... possibly CHI and MIN. Any with Shanahan roots that would like a big blocking WR.
He's a good blocker and best in the 'big slot' role, but some teams aren't going to value him. He'll get interest and with the WR FA market being kind of bananas he could get a nice offer. If that's the case I wish him luck -- he seems like a good dude and he's earned a payday. He's a nice player but I don't think his skills are irreplaceable. I could see GB going younger (Lazard is 27) and cheaper, possibly with a TE who can run.

[Joemailman]

I think the best scenario is wait until after June 1 and trade Rodgers to Las Vegas for a 2024 1st round pick. Rodgers gets reunited with Adams, and gets the chance to play close to home so he'll agree to the contract. Raiders can afford it because they will save almost $30 million on the cap by cutting Carr. Give Love a chance to play with these young receivers. If Love isn't good Packers will have the draft capital to move up in the 2024 draft to draft a quarterback.

[RashanGary]

I think the best scenario is wait until after June 1 and trade Rodgers to Las Vegas for a 2024 1st round pick. Rodgers gets reunited with Adams, and gets the chance to play close to home so he'll agree to the contract. Raiders can afford it because they will save almost $30 million on the cap by cutting Carr. Give Love a chance to play with these young receivers. If Love isn't good Packers will have the draft capital to move up in the 2024 draft to draft a quarterback.

I like it.

[MadScientist]

I think the best scenario is wait until after June 1 and trade Rodgers to Las Vegas for a 2024 1st round pick. Rodgers gets reunited with Adams, and gets the chance to play close to home so he'll agree to the contract. Raiders can afford it because they will save almost $30 million on the cap by cutting Carr. Give Love a chance to play with these young receivers. If Love isn't good Packers will have the draft capital to move up in the 2024 draft to draft a quarterback.

Unless Over the Cap is wrong, trading Rodgers after June 1st leads to a massive cap hit.
https://overthecap.com/player/aaron-rodgers/1085

I think it might be possible to trade Rodgers very soon (before March) so that the next team has to pay the guaranteed bonus coming up.

[run pMc]

I don't like it. That's basically like a R2 in this year's draft. I guess getting the cap relief would be the main thing, but I think Rodgers still has 'slightly above average' play in his tank, and that's worth more than a Chase Claypool. Speaking of...how about trading him to CHI for Fields and the #1 pick lol

[call_me_ishmael]

I think the best scenario is wait until after June 1 and trade Rodgers to Las Vegas for a 2024 1st round pick. Rodgers gets reunited with Adams, and gets the chance to play close to home so he'll agree to the contract. Raiders can afford it because they will save almost $30 million on the cap by cutting Carr. Give Love a chance to play with these young receivers. If Love isn't good Packers will have the draft capital to move up in the 2024 draft to draft a quarterback.

This is probably what they will do, I agree.

[Joemailman]

Unless Over the Cap is wrong, trading Rodgers after June 1st leads to a massive cap hit.
https://overthecap.com/player/aaron-rodgers/1085

I think it might be possible to trade Rodgers very soon (before March) so that the next team has to pay the guaranteed bonus coming up.

If I'm reading it right, according to OTC, the cap hit is 98 million if they trade him before June 1, and 30 million if they trade him after June 1. I don't think you can trade players anymore in this league year.

[red]

If I'm reading it right, according to OTC, the cap hit is 98 million if they trade him before June 1, and 30 million if they trade him after June 1. I don't think you can trade players anymore in this league year.

Somewhere on this site someone found a link to a guy who actually had a really good breakdown of his deal and it was nowhere near as bad as we all thought it was by looking at OTC and sporran

We take a big hit, but it’s not 98 million (I don’t think). And could be spread over 2 years

[Joemailman]

Somewhere on this site someone found a link to a guy who actually had a really good breakdown of his deal and it was nowhere near as bad as we all thought it was by looking at OTC and sporran

We take a big hit, but it’s not 98 million (I don’t think). And could be spread over 2 years

Ken Ingalls.



Ken Ingalls - Packers Cap ������
@KenIngalls

Replying to
@KenIngalls
There is zero way to reduce this $40.31M of dead cap. There is no magic Drew Brees or Bobby Bonilla method to make this disappear as the money has already been paid.

Best case is to spread $15.83M to 2023 & $24.48M to 2024 if the retirement is processed after June 1, 2023.



Ken Ingalls - Packers Cap ������
@KenIngalls

These numbers are exactly the same if Aaron Rodgers is traded instead of retires. The $40.31M does not transfer to the new team even if they would be willing to take some/all of it on.

A new team would have Rodgers at a $15.79M cap hit in 2023 after exercising his $58.3M option.

[Fritz]

Trade Rodgers. My dream is that the Raiders want him and that the Packers can still get a first-round pick for him. Looks like trading him after June 1st is the most logical scenario, so okay - god I hope the Raider want him and will give up their 2024 #1.

The Packers can still salvage the mess from last year and start the rebuild. See is Love is the man next year. Give him the season to play and grow. IF he's the guy, great. If he's not, you go fishing in the draft.

Weird that the Lions are in a better place managing the cap and in terms of young talent and rebuilding.

[ThunderDan]

Trade Rodgers. My dream is that the Raiders want him and that the Packers can still get a first-round pick for him. Looks like trading him after June 1st is the most logical scenario, so okay - god I hope the Raider want him and will give up their 2024 #1.

The Packers can still salvage the mess from last year and start the rebuild. See is Love is the man next year. Give him the season to play and grow. IF he's the guy, great. If he's not, you go fishing in the draft.

Weird that the Lions are in a better place managing the cap and in terms of young talent and rebuilding.

Weird historically, but really not weird when you think about it.

I think CHI and DET finally got some front office people who understand what they are doing. Drafting smart, taking all their cap hits in years they know they aren't going anywhere, and in CHI case have a boatload of cap space in 2023 to sign free agents.

[ThunderDan]

Also, forgot to mention that both teams traded really good players that would cost too much going forward for the talent on the team and have gotten a lot of draft picks for it. Though I still don't understand the Chase Claypool trade by the Bears.

[red]

Ken Ingalls.

There is a giant roster bonus do on the first day of the new year. If the team picks that up, then the dead cap jumps up to like 100 million

I think I read somewhere that if they pick up the first option it locks in all the other years options

[call_me_ishmael]

https://twitter.com/PatMcAfeeShow/status/1612873132943245312

:eyes: emoji

edit: LOL not that eyes one! ������

[Joemailman]

Rodgers has now gone 22 straight games without a 300 yard passing game. The last one was December 12, 2021 against the Bears. In that same time period, Jared Goff has had 6. Kirk Cousins 4.

[beveaux1]

I think we're wishfully thinking that Rodgers will be traded. My guess is that the Packers front office put all their money on Rodgers and they're all in on that decision.

If there's someone up there that regrets it, the best that person can hope for is a $60 million miracle retirement.

I don't see any trade happening.

[George Cumby]

I'm as tired of Erin as I was of Bert.

So over the drama.

[Deputy Nutz]

The Packers offered this deal less than a year ago, he signed the deal less than a year ago. He was 38 years old. The Packers deserve to be cattle prodded after that ridiculous contract. 3 years 150 million with 101 million upfront, Just stupid.

[Deputy Nutz]

I'm as tired of Erin as I was of Bert.

So over the drama.

It's actually worse with Aaron. Favre wanted say or to contribute to personnel decisions. The Packers refused to give to him so he retired, then unretired and got traded. Aaron got 150 million and an apology from the franchise for not asking his opinion and contributions on personnel decisions. Hell, he got Randall Cobb back to GB. All Favre wanted was Randy Moss for a 4th round draft pick. You know, the same Randy Moss that went to break the all time receiving touchdown record for a season with NE.

This organization should have at least 6 more Super Bowls from 1997 to the Present, and the franchise has done all the can to not win Super Bowls. No other Franchise besides the 49ers has had the 30 years of Hall of Fame QB play that the Packers have had and they have 3 Super Bowl appearances to show for it. Marginal drafting, lack of free agent signings, and personnel departments headed up by scared GMs, Sherman wasn't scared he was just inept.

[red]

The Packers offered this deal less than a year ago, he signed the deal less than a year ago. He was 38 years old. The Packers deserve to be cattle prodded after that ridiculous contract. 3 years 150 million with 101 million upfront, Just stupid.

and the probalem was, he was already under contract, no one needed to give him an extension, and he WANTED to be traded

[run pMc]

Trade Rodgers. My dream is that the Raiders want him and that the Packers can still get a first-round pick for him. Looks like trading him after June 1st is the most logical scenario, so okay - god I hope the Raider want him and will give up their 2024 #1.

The Packers can still salvage the mess from last year and start the rebuild. See is Love is the man next year. Give him the season to play and grow. IF he's the guy, great. If he's not, you go fishing in the draft.

Weird that the Lions are in a better place managing the cap and in terms of young talent and rebuilding.

Lions offloaded or let a lot of players go over the last 2-3 years. Trading Stafford for Goff and a boatload of picks will turn out well for them I think. Those draft picks (if well chosen) become less expensive cost-controlled contracts for younger, often healthier players with upside.

This article went out re: options a while back, seems like trading - not cutting - would be their option.
https://overthecap.com/looking-ahead-to-the-packers-options-with-aaron-rodgers


The cap charge here would depend on when he was traded. If Rodgers were to be traded prior to June 1st the Packers would take on a $40,313,750 cap hit in 2023. If he was traded after June 1st it would be a $15,833,570 cap hit in 2023 with $24,480,000 due in 2024. This assumes that the Packers did not exercise the option before the trade. If the option is exercised then the trade number spikes to nearly $100 million. There should be no need to exercise the option until the last possible day.

FWIW, I think they will run it back with Rodgers next year. Just a hunch.

[Deputy Nutz]

and the probalem was, he was already under contract, no one needed to give him an extension, and he WANTED to be traded
That should make all your wieners bleed out of frustration

[bobblehead]

and the probalem was, he was already under contract, no one needed to give him an extension, and he WANTED to be traded

I agree Red. We don't see eye to eye all the time on things, but Gutes et al fucked this one up good. At the time I said you call him with 3 options. 1) Agree to a trade where ever we can get the max value, but we will try and aim for your desired targets. 2) Sit there and pout, but hope Love doesn't ball out and make you look like a clown. 3) Fine, we will trade Love for what we can get if you agree to add $25 million one season to current deal. The next 2 years become fully gauranteed if as long as you play and report to EVERY practice.

Any of those would have worked I think. However, the solution of, we'll give you a shit ton of money to have us sit Love until you decide to retire and DROP a year from the current deal was absolutely asinine. And yes, I realize I am comparing 2 offseasons ago to last offseason. They dropped a year off to get him into camp. He won the MVP. They should have just let him play out the last year of the deal and went from there.

[call_me_ishmael]

But those aren't realistic things Bobblehead. Why would Aaron take 25M in 2023 in the hypothetical above? The going rate for a top QB is ~50M.

[RashanGary]

Had him play out the last year and then tag him if he’s still dominating. What they did was cave to 12. And now they pay.

[red]

Had him play out the last year and then tag him if he’s still dominating. What they did was cave to 12. And now they pay.

they caved, and then they threw all the money they had at him to make it up to him, even though they never did anything wrong

[Sparkey]

It wasn't Gutes. Murphy is the brainchild behind this whole train wreck. Gutes wanted/wants to give Love a shot. Murphy was pissing himself thinking about the bad pub he'd get during phase II of the TitleTown district development.

[NewsBruin]

I remember the timing of Aaron's extension being "someone close to Rodgers camp" reporting that Green Bay wanted to trade Aaron, and that Aaron wanted to retire and become the next Wink Martindale rather than face such disrespect from a stone-eared front office that never wanted to give him anything nice. This extension was all about caving into Aaron's hurt from such unprecedented disloyalty to a humble football Saint. The front office didn't want to be the bad guys and didn't want to risk Love flopping as the next Brett Hundley as a no-notice starter.

Embellishment aside, this was all about Green Bay locking itself into a contract that would give Aaron bonuses to show how sorry they were and guaranteed salaries with early triggers to show they'd never do it again.

[call_me_ishmael]

They didn't think JLo was the guy when they wrote that contract, or they wouldn't have done it. Earned or not (it obviously was).

The question is do they still think that. I think the bigger question is Brady retiring this year. If he is, then Rodgers returns to the NFL. If not, maybe Rodgers views this as a good time to walk away.

[Bretsky]

The Packers offered this deal less than a year ago, he signed the deal less than a year ago. He was 38 years old. The Packers deserve to be cattle prodded after that ridiculous contract. 3 years 150 million with 101 million upfront, Just stupid.


Once it was clear adams was gone I think Sharon grabbed gutebag by the balls and just kept squeezing til he cried and gave him everything he wanted and more

[call_me_ishmael]

I don't really understand that positioning. I think it's wrong.

Rodgers re-negotiated his contract in 2021 to remove the 2023 year, so if they didn't give him an extension, he'd be a lame duck and/or a free agent right now.

He was coming off back to back MVPs, who isn't resigning that guy when he has one year left??

He got 10% more than Josh Allen a year later and about 12% more than Mahomes two years later. That feels about right and typical of contracts, no?

One can gripe about the structure of the contract and I think that is fair to complain about but it looks like it was done such a way to minimize cap space used in 2022 and 2023. Would you rather they have as much extra space as possible to sign other players in 2022 and 2023 and pay the bill later when they're rebuilding or pay it all up front? I want the championships like Bretsky so the answer is obvious.

In short, I don't think what Gooter did is different than what every other GM would have done. Pay this man his money. Don't splash the pot.

The other thing I think is sorta weird is the positioning that he's not worth the contract or whatever. Fair enough, but he earned it at the time and all parties agreed so it's not really your concern one way or another. The team probably isn't winning with Rodgers or Love right now so I don't really care about the money aspect and would rather just see ARod play a bit more ball if possible.

[run pMc]

Per https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2023/1/11/23549795/green-bay-packers-roster-update-2023-futures-contract-signings

Here’s a breakdown of the Packers’ 2023 roster, by position, as it stands today:

QB (3): Aaron Rodgers, Jordan Love, Danny Etling
RB (4): Aaron Jones, AJ Dillon, Patrick Taylor, Tyler Goodson
WR (5): Christian Watson, Romeo Doubs, Samori Toure, Bo Melton, Jeff Cotton
TE (3): Josiah Deguara, Austin Allen, Nick Guggemos
OL (12): David Bakhtiari, Elgton Jenkins, Josh Myers, Jon Runyan, Yosh Nijman (likely-to-be-tendered RFA), Zach Tom, Royce Newman, Sean Rhyan, Luke Tenuta, Caleb Jones, Rasheed Walker, Jean Delance
DL (5): Kenny Clark, Devonte Wyatt, TJ Slaton, Jonathan Ford, Chris Slayton
OLB (5): Rashan Gary, Preston Smith, Kingsley Enagbare, Jonathan Garvin, La’Darius Hamilton
ILB (3): De’Vondre Campbell, Quay Walker, Isaiah McDuffie
CB (7): Jaire Alexander, Eric Stokes, Rasul Douglas, Shemar Jean-Charles, Kiondre Thomas, Tyrell Ford, Benjie Franklin
S (4): Darnell Savage, Innis Gaines, Vernon Scott, James Wiggins
K (1): Parker White
P (1): Pat O’Donnell
LS (1): Jack Coco

[Joemailman]

DeGuara has a pretty good chance of making the team.

[RashanGary]

CMI, he’s 39 years old. A 3 year extension (4 year deal) at top QB dollar….. they could have known he would decline. And the chemistry thing with 17. They could have known he wouldn’t play as well.

It was a bad contract.

[sharpe1027]

I didn't like the contract extension back when they did it. I like it even less now.

[call_me_ishmael]

CMI, he’s 39 years old. A 3 year extension (4 year deal) at top QB dollar….. they could have known he would decline. And the chemistry thing with 17. They could have known he wouldn’t play as well.

It was a bad contract.

Eh, I disagree. It's a market value contract that was earned. Maybe the Packers would have been better moving on but they didn't and needed to sign him. He'd have gotten the same money if not more anywhere else. The structure arguably would be different for a team with more cap space.

[texaspackerbacker]

Obviously, I liked the contract when it was done, and obviously I still like it now. Why? Because it keeps Rodgers in Green Bay. Of course, the haters and shitheads would rather have Rodgers gone - apparently willing to settle for the mediocrity that would bring. Fortunately, the powers that be wanted to keep Rodgers on the team, and I suspect they are not stupidly regretting the contract like some dumbasses in here.

It's probably true that Rodgers doesn't want to retire the same year as Brady. It's also probably more likely to be true he doesn't want to retire before Brady. It may even be true that he wants to play to at least the same age Brady is when he retires. Or then again, maybe he doesn't give a shit one way or the other about Brady. Unlike several shitheads in here who think they know what's in rodgers' mind or that of LaFleur or Gutekunst or whoever, I don't pretend to know that the guy is thinking beyond what I hear him say directly - usually on McAfee's show. I sure as hell hope he doesn't retire anytime soon and he stays with the Packers 'til the end because the alternative is long term mediocrity - which some dumbasses seem to either want or seem to be oblivious about.

[King Friday]

DeGuara has a pretty good chance of making the team.

So does Jeff Cotton at this point.

[run pMc]

I sure as hell hope he doesn't retire anytime soon and he stays with the Packers 'til the end because the alternative is long term mediocrity - which some dumbasses seem to either want or seem to be oblivious about.



I think he has one more season in him at most with Green Bay. What he (and the rest of the offense) showed this year was closer to ineptitude than mediocrity, especially in the RZ or short yardage/4th downs. Rodgers can play better, but I think his elite days are gone. When guys like Brock Purdy are operating the Shanahan offense into the playoffs, you have to wonder why Rodgers can barely make it look competent.

I don't think Rodgers plays out the contract, which as a back-to-back MVP he might have deserved...but that structure is cap crippling and it's a gamble with an aging QB.
He may or may not care about Brady, but you can bet when Brady goes in he will get all the attention and I doubt 12 would like being the sidekick/opening act.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Had him play out the last year and then tag him if he’s still dominating. What they did was cave to 12. And now they pay.

Nope, we all pay..

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

I didn't like the contract extension back when they did it. I like it even less now.

Ditto..

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Obviously, I liked the contract when it was done, and obviously I still like it now. Why? Because it keeps Rodgers in Green Bay. Of course, the haters and shitheads would rather have Rodgers gone - apparently willing to settle for the mediocrity that would bring. Fortunately, the powers that be wanted to keep Rodgers on the team, and I suspect they are not stupidly regretting the contract like some dumbasses in here.

It's probably true that Rodgers doesn't want to retire the same year as Brady. It's also probably more likely to be true he doesn't want to retire before Brady. It may even be true that he wants to play to at least the same age Brady is when he retires. Or then again, maybe he doesn't give a shit one way or the other about Brady. Unlike several shitheads in here who think they know what's in rodgers' mind or that of LaFleur or Gutekunst or whoever, I don't pretend to know that the guy is thinking beyond what I hear him say directly - usually on McAfee's show. I sure as hell hope he doesn't retire anytime soon and he stays with the Packers 'til the end because the alternative is long term mediocrity - which some dumbasses seem to either want or seem to be oblivious about.

We are already at long term mediocrity..

[Fritz]

It wasn't Gutes. Murphy is the brainchild behind this whole train wreck. Gutes wanted/wants to give Love a shot. Murphy was pissing himself thinking about the bad pub he'd get during phase II of the TitleTown district development.

Sparkey, this is interesting. Do you have any evidence for this? I'm curious as to what Gutes really wanted to do.

[sharpe1027]

Tex, I want to know if I'm a shit head or just a hater.

Rodgers is one of the greatest ever play the game. With the same team and coaching staff, would rather have Rodgers than Brady. That being said, he's not playing remotely close to his contract and that is hurting the Packers.

[bobblehead]

Tex, I want to know if I'm a shit head or just a hater.

Rodgers is one of the greatest ever play the game. With the same team and coaching staff, would rather have Rodgers than Brady. That being said, he's not playing remotely close to his contract and that is hurting the Packers.

I'm both I think. You have to work hard to get in my rarified air.

[bobblehead]

But those aren't realistic things Bobblehead. Why would Aaron take 25M in 2023 in the hypothetical above? The going rate for a top QB is ~50M.

That would have been to get us to trade Love. If we would trade the future he would need to give something back and an extra year at $25 million when he would have turned 41 during that season would have been fair. We also would have gauranteed the 2022 and 2023 season if he showed up. Bottom line, he was under contract and at the time he had 2 options. Report or sit (or start negotiating). They gave him something for nothing (cutting a year off the current contract). Thats just bad negotiating.

[bobblehead]

They didn't think JLo was the guy when they wrote that contract, or they wouldn't have done it. Earned or not (it obviously was).

The question is do they still think that. I think the bigger question is Brady retiring this year. If he is, then Rodgers returns to the NFL. If not, maybe Rodgers views this as a good time to walk away.

This is just silly. When they did it Rodgers had just won the MVP award. What they thought was that they had a super bowl roster and wanted the league MVP at QB instead of Love. That says almost zero about what they thought about Love at the time.

Edit: and everyone has one thing wrong. He got his contract to start 2021 after he won ONE MVP. He then won it again AFTER he signed the deal.

[call_me_ishmael]

This is just silly. When they did it Rodgers had just won the MVP award. What they thought was that they had a super bowl roster and wanted the league MVP at QB instead of Love. That says almost zero about what they thought about Love at the time.

Edit: and everyone has one thing wrong. He got his contract to start 2021 after he won ONE MVP. He then won it again AFTER he signed the deal.

I disagree, if they thought he was the bees knees they would have moved on. See Packers 2008 where Favre was MVP runner up.

[Joemailman]

This is just silly. When they did it Rodgers had just won the MVP award. What they thought was that they had a super bowl roster and wanted the league MVP at QB instead of Love. That says almost zero about what they thought about Love at the time.

Edit: and everyone has one thing wrong. He got his contract to start 2021 after he won ONE MVP. He then won it again AFTER he signed the deal.

He signed the current contract March of 2022 after winning his 2nd straight MVP. He had one year left on his old contract when he signed it. I think they had an agreement in 2021 that they would talk contract after the 2021 season.

[Joemailman]

Woody Johnson, the Jets owner reportedly willing to pay for a veteran QB. https://twitter.com/i/status/1613617243396444160

I'm not sayin'. I'm just sayin'.

[texaspackerbacker]

hahahaha I'm not naming names. Their words betray them.

Seriously, ya'all don't think Rodgers will bounce back? You seriously don't think LaFleur, Gutekunst, etc. think Rodgers will be back on top next season? Or do ya'all think you know better than them?

[run pMc]

hahahaha I'm not naming names. Their words betray them.

Seriously, ya'all don't think Rodgers will bounce back? You seriously don't think LaFleur, Gutekunst, etc. think Rodgers will be back on top next season? Or do ya'all think you know better than them?

I think if Rodgers wants to play next year, GB will play him. I think they are more likely to trade Jordan Love than Aaron Rodgers (contract is easier to move, and he's younger).
I do NOT think Rodgers will bounce back to elite level of play, but I do think he can play better than he did this year. He has to put in some work to play better though.

After next season I think he's probably done.
Every year the cold feels colder, the grind gets tougher, the players get younger and faster and hit harder. His body language speaks volumes.

I would be stunned if they traded Rodgers. If NYJ want to hand over a couple of R1 picks I'm sure Gute would listen.

[sharpe1027]

hahahaha I'm not naming names. Their words betray them.

Seriously, ya'all don't think Rodgers will bounce back? You seriously don't think LaFleur, Gutekunst, etc. think Rodgers will be back on top next season? Or do ya'all think you know better than them?

He might improve some, but I believe he's lost the chip on his shoulder that really made him great. No matter how poorly he plays, I suspect you'll say it's not that bad, not his fault, or both.

Let me put it this way so it's more objective. I don't think he'll be top ten in passer rating or similar metrics. I think top ten is his realistic ceiling and the floor is much lower.

I hope I'm wrong. I am not against Rodgers doing well, I just call it like I see it.

[ThunderDan]

Rodgers was 11th in the league in passing yards, 7th in TDs, 7th in INTs, and 17th passer rating for QBs with at least 100 attempts.

[George Cumby]

Woody Johnson, the Jets owner reportedly willing to pay for a veteran QB. https://twitter.com/i/status/1613617243396444160

I'm not sayin'. I'm just sayin'.

Oh Dear God, please, yes.

[George Cumby]

We are already at long term mediocrity..

Ayuh.

[run pMc]

Rodgers was 11th in the league in passing yards, 7th in TDs, 7th in INTs, and 17th passer rating for QBs with at least 100 attempts.

20th in completion percentage, 20th in ANY/A, and 24th in Y/A, 27th in ESPN's stupid QBR.
Jared Goff had a better year than Rodgers, and not by some small margin.

He's still got talent and can make throws, but he can't make them as often (or consistently) as he used to. He's got to change his play style from the gunslinger to the facilitator (not a game manager). Gute has to give him some weapons and just let them do the work. Rodgers' best game this year was vs. Dallas, he only needed to throw 20 passes. I don't believe that was a coincidence.

[sharpe1027]

Giving Rodgers more weapons is made harder by his salary.

[Joemailman]

20th in completion percentage, 20th in ANY/A, and 24th in Y/A, 27th in ESPN's stupid QBR.
Jared Goff had a better year than Rodgers, and not by some small margin.

He's still got talent and can make throws, but he can't make them as often (or consistently) as he used to. He's got to change his play style from the gunslinger to the facilitator (not a game manager). Gute has to give him some weapons and just let them do the work. Rodgers' best game this year was vs. Dallas, he only needed to throw 20 passes. I don't believe that was a coincidence.

So Packers are paying 50 million a year to a game manager. That's the problem. A great quarterback will elevate the performance of his receivers. The Packers need receivers to elevate the quarterback.

[texaspackerbacker]

He might improve some, but I believe he's lost the chip on his shoulder that really made him great. No matter how poorly he plays, I suspect you'll say it's not that bad, not his fault, or both.

Let me put it this way so it's more objective. I don't think he'll be top ten in passer rating or similar metrics. I think top ten is his realistic ceiling and the floor is much lower.

I hope I'm wrong. I am not against Rodgers doing well, I just call it like I see it.

hahahahahaha If he ever read the shit in here, that chip would come back in a hurry.

A generally good post, runpMc - at least in comparison to most of the hater crap from some in here.

I guess it doesn't occur to any of those dumbasses that a large part of the reason for Rodgers' worse stats was a better run game? or lower quality and/or less experienced receivers? I bet some of ya'all haters were the same shitheads who used to whine that Rodgers was a "stat whore" when he was consistently throwing for 300 yards a game and 40+ TDs a season.

[run pMc]

I guess it doesn't occur to you that Rodgers is clearly showing signs of decline. It happens to everyone: Manning, Brady, Favre, Marino, and yes even Aaron Rodgers.
You can point to receivers, line, etc., but he's transcended that in the past; why can't he now?

****
3rd and goal at the 3.5 yard line against the Lions. Rodgers runs out of the pocket to his right and towards the line of scrimmage. In past years he'd have run for it or given a pump fake and tried to run it in. If he'd done that he'd have gotten it close the goal line and made it an easier 4th and goal. Instead he throws an off target pass in Dillon's direction.

There are tons of examples like this. His skills have diminished.

Lower quality receivers? You called Watson & Doubs a
net positive in the short term and
Watson should end up with at least as good a year as Adams had last year and much better than Adams will have this year with the Raiders.

OL was a little shaky, but his pressured rate was actually lower this year than last by quite a bit (and below league average).
Having Bahk & Jenkins hit their groove in the second half of the season helped that.

I would love to see Rodgers throw 24-28 times a game for 280-320 yards and 2-3TDs. I just don't know that he can anymore. Blaming the stats on the run game is a little questionable; there were games where MLF seemed to ignore Aaron Jones and give him 8 carries. Rodgers had 542 attempts this year, or ~31.9 per game compared to 33.2 and 32.9 in 2022 and 2021 respectively, so he's not throwing much less on average. And yet his yards/game is way down. So you have a QB who is throwing for less yardage on almost the same # of attempts despite getting less pressure.

[MadScientist]

hahahahahaha If he ever read the shit in here, that chip would come back in a hurry.

A generally good post, runpMc - at least in comparison to most of the hater crap from some in here.

I guess it doesn't occur to any of those dumbasses that a large part of the reason for Rodgers' worse stats was a better run game? or lower quality and/or less experienced receivers? I bet some of ya'all haters were the same shitheads who used to whine that Rodgers was a "stat whore" when he was consistently throwing for 300 yards a game and 40+ TDs a season.

Rodgers' stats were down because he wasn't good this season. His rating was the worst of his career, and his QBR was an anemic 39.4. Having a good running game should have helped those numbers. The lack of sustained drives and poor red-zone performance doomed this season and Rodgers was a big part of those failings. Can he bounce back? Maybe. He's had seasons bad enough for me to start the "Is Arron Rodgers good anymore" thread, and bounced back to playing great.

Why Rodgers will rebound:
1) Injuries - The broken thumb was causing him problems for a large part of the season. Not just in bad passes, but in lack of practice time.
2) Receivers - Doubs and Watson are clearly talented and another year should get them on the same page with Rodgers and just better prepared to play a full NFL season
3) OLine - Jenkins will be healthy and in his more natural position. Bach might finally be healthy for the start of the season, and Tom will have a year under his belt.

Why Rodgers won't rebound:
1) Age - Rodgers turns 40 this year. Age is not going to help his mobility or ability to heal.
2) No chip on his shoulder - His contract makes Love no threat to him, and he plays better when he has something to prove.
3) Cold - Even if the Packers are better next year, Rodgers has looked bad in the cold for several years.

Best guess - He'll rebound enough to be good, but not great. They'll make the playoffs and be bounced in the first round.

[Deputy Nutz]

I just saw a tweet that said the Packers could trade Rodgers this off-season and take a 40 million dollar hit, or they can keep him on the roster and take a 65 million hit in 2024. I think if you wait till 2024 to move on from Rodgers you are going to lose Love. Maybe you can trade Love and start over on the QB of the future.

[RashanGary]

I just saw a tweet that said the Packers could trade Rodgers this off-season and take a 40 million dollar hit, or they can keep him on the roster and take a 65 million hit in 2024. I think if you wait till 2024 to move on from Rodgers you are going to lose Love. Maybe you can trade Love and start over on the QB of the future.

This year is a really good time for a trade. It gets stickier every year of the contract. But I don’t think they like Love. The Rodgers contract shows they don’t have much confidence in the young guy.

[Joemailman]

They clearly didn't feel Love was ready last March or they wouldn't have given Rodgers the contract they did. The question is whether that's changed with Love's improved play this past year. If so, it's hard to see them wanting to trade Love after developing him for 3 years. The problem is Rodgers doesn't really want to be traded. He wants to finish his career with Green Bay. The Packers may either have to play Rodgers or convince him to retire.

[Fritz]

Woody Johnson, the Jets owner reportedly willing to pay for a veteran QB. https://twitter.com/i/status/1613617243396444160

I'm not sayin'. I'm just sayin'.

Woody gave me a woody.

A first rounder for Rodgers.

But would he?

And Rodgers - playing in New York following the same sorry career path of his predecessor?

Would he?

[call_me_ishmael]

The question ultimately boils down to this I guess:

Do you think Love is good enough over the next 5 years to risk burning a bridge and moving on from Rodgers?

If he's going to be middle of the road, it honestly probably isn't worth it.
If he's going to be top 5-10, then yeah it probably is.

I believe the Packers think they know the answer to this.

[Joemailman]

The question ultimately boils down to this I guess:

Do you think Love is good enough over the next 5 years to risk burning a bridge and moving on from Rodgers?

If he's going to be middle of the road, it honestly probably isn't worth it.
If he's going to be top 5-10, then yeah it probably is.

I believe the Packers think they know the answer to this.

Gute said as much last month when asked if they need to see Jordan Love in the late season games.


“No,” general manager Brian Gutekunst said on Monday. “We’re really pleased with his progression and what he’s been able to do. I think that it would be really good for him, the growth that you need to go through, seeing things for the first time, making those mistakes that you need to make. But I think from our end of it, we’ve seen what we need to see.”

[Teamcheez1]

So we have a middle of the road old QB and a middle of the road young QB.

[Joemailman]

Gute just said in his PC he can envision both Love and Rodgers on the Packers in 2023. Acknowledged that Love is ready to play and chomping at the bit (his words). Also said he'd like to see all players here in the offseason while acknowledging much of it is voluntary. Acknowledged that older players need workouts less, but said it's good for younger players for everyone to be here.

[texaspackerbacker]

I guess it doesn't occur to you that Rodgers is clearly showing signs of decline. It happens to everyone: Manning, Brady, Favre, Marino, and yes even Aaron Rodgers.
You can point to receivers, line, etc., but he's transcended that in the past; why can't he now?

****
3rd and goal at the 3.5 yard line against the Lions. Rodgers runs out of the pocket to his right and towards the line of scrimmage. In past years he'd have run for it or given a pump fake and tried to run it in. If he'd done that he'd have gotten it close the goal line and made it an easier 4th and goal. Instead he throws an off target pass in Dillon's direction.

There are tons of examples like this. His skills have diminished.

Lower quality receivers? You called Watson & Doubs a and

OL was a little shaky, but his pressured rate was actually lower this year than last by quite a bit (and below league average).
Having Bahk & Jenkins hit their groove in the second half of the season helped that.

I would love to see Rodgers throw 24-28 times a game for 280-320 yards and 2-3TDs. I just don't know that he can anymore. Blaming the stats on the run game is a little questionable; there were games where MLF seemed to ignore Aaron Jones and give him 8 carries. Rodgers had 542 attempts this year, or ~31.9 per game compared to 33.2 and 32.9 in 2022 and 2021 respectively, so he's not throwing much less on average. And yet his yards/game is way down. So you have a QB who is throwing for less yardage on almost the same # of attempts despite getting less pressure.

There of course were signs of decline last year. What did you see, though, that wasn't directly attributable to the thumb injury? Did his mobility decline? No, not much. His stats declined, as I said, and as would be expected with the team running more. Comparison to others? Manning played until 40. He had a clearly debilitating injury - which Rodgers does not. Favre played well into his 40s with some decline toward the end - all I can say there is he may not have taken as good care of his body as Rodgers. Marino I don't really remember, but I think there was some kind of injury factor there too. Brees, who you didn't mention, declined some, but he was at least serviceable until 42 or so. Brady may have declined some this season, but he's 45 or so, and prior to this year, he was damn near as good as ever.

Regarding receivers, I did say "lower quality and/or less experienced" - you know I have as high an opinion of Watson and Doubs as anybody, but they did lack experience, not to mention each missing major chunks of the season with injury.

Screwed up plays: there have always been those, and it's hard to tell whose fault they are - Rodgers, LaFleur, other players not executing, etc. In an overall bad season, those things stand out more long term, but they're hardly a sign of decline.

I've said, the O Line actually seemed better this year (better without the sacred cow than with him hahahaha). Part of the reason for less pressures, total numbers as well as the rate, was more use of the running game.

"I would love to see Rodgers throw 24-28 times a game for 280-320 yards and 2-3TDs" - what you'd love to see: That IMO is extremely doable going forward with a healthy Rodgers, even with the team relying as umch on the running game. I also thoroughly expect his interception rate - which rose all the way to almost as bad as most QBs - to drop back down to Rodgers-normal, which means practically zero.

CMI brought up QBs playing into their 40s, other than Brady: Obviously Favre and Brees just in recent years, and you could go back to Blanda, admittedly a bad example because he was primarily a kicker. It's a different NFL now with rule changes, better conditioning, etc. Most of the QBs who quit younger in recent times were never close to Rodgers or Brady level to begin with - literally nobody has been other than P. Manning.

[call_me_ishmael]

So we have a middle of the road old QB and a middle of the road young QB.

If there is no clear advantage to rolling with Love, I don't think you make the change. It's not worth it.

[call_me_ishmael]

CMI brought up QBs playing into their 40s, other than Brady: Obviously Favre and Brees just in recent years, and you could go back to Blanda, admittedly a bad example because he was primarily a kicker. It's a different NFL now with rule changes, better conditioning, etc. Most of the QBs who quit younger in recent times were never close to Rodgers or Brady level to begin with - literally nobody has been other than P. Manning.

Neither Brees or Favre were any good in their 40s though.

[ThunderDan]

If there is no clear advantage to rolling with Love, I don't think you make the change. It's not worth it.

Why not? ARod's contract is a huge drag on the franchise. If the play level is going to be the same, why not rip the bandaid off this year and get it over with?

[ThunderDan]

Hard to believe that some here can't see a difference in 2022 and 2021 ARod play.

2022 Green Bay Packers 17 542 350 64.6 3695 6.8 58 26 12 177 32.7 53 32 258 91.1
2021 Green Bay Packers 16 531 366 68.9 4115 7.8 75 37 4 213 40.1 55 30 188 111.9

ARod attempted more passes in 2022 than 2021. His total yardage on more pass attempts went down 420 yards or 10.2%.
His yardage per attempt went from 7.8 yards to 6.8 yards or 12.8%. That stat has nothing to do with the number of runs called.
TDs down 11 or 30%. Ints up 8 or 300%.
QB Rating went from 111.9 to 91.1. Down 20.8 points or 18.6%.

[call_me_ishmael]

Why not? ARod's contract is a huge drag on the franchise. If the play level is going to be the same, why not rip the bandaid off this year and get it over with?

I can see that logic to but what is the upside if they're not winning games either way. I guess I lean towards letting the legend finish his career the way he wants on his terms and getting a very friendly post-career appearances agreement, etc.

[sharpe1027]

hahahahahaha If he ever read the shit in here, that chip would come back in a hurry.

A generally good post, runpMc - at least in comparison to most of the hater crap from some in here.

I guess it doesn't occur to any of those dumbasses that a large part of the reason for Rodgers' worse stats was a better run game? or lower quality and/or less experienced receivers? I bet some of ya'all haters were the same shitheads who used to whine that Rodgers was a "stat whore" when he was consistently throwing for 300 yards a game and 40+ TDs a season.

You keep lumping everyone that disagrees with you together using labels like shit head and dumbasses. It just weakens your credibility.

I never called Rodgers a stat whore. I have only ever wanted him to be successful. I have no agenda or desire to be proven right. I'm just sharing what I see and believe. Is it inconceivable to you that people raise questions about Rodgers because they are just reasonably concerned for the Packers?

[run pMc]

You keep lumping everyone that disagrees with you together using labels like shit head and dumbasses. It just weakens your credibility.

I never called Rodgers a stat whore. I have only ever wanted him to be successful. I have no agenda or desire to be proven right. I'm just sharing what I see and believe. Is it inconceivable to you that people raise questions about Rodgers because they are just reasonably concerned for the Packers?

This, and ThunderDans' post as well.
Rodgers is on the decline.

The Packers ran the ball 10 times more this year than last year, and that's over 17 games not 16, so you could argue they ran less. His mobility did decline: Rodgers scrambles/runs per game were at a career low, and when he did it was obvious he can't run like he did 5 years ago. All in all, I don't see how you could not see his efficiency and production declined. I also don't know why anyone would think a declining player would suddenly be rejuvenated and play like an MVP in their age 40 season. He declined across the board, not just in one area, which would be more indicative of an external circumstance.

If you can back up your position with stats I might agree with you.

[Fritz]

Why not? ARod's contract is a huge drag on the franchise. If the play level is going to be the same, why not rip the bandaid off this year and get it over with?

I agree. Why not get this over with instead of dragging it out?

And time heals all wounds. Brent came back to standing O's after all of his transgressions - the horrible retirement/unretirement, the dic pics, the stories, his sorry play in the playoffs against the Gints.

Rodgers has "only" been a whiny prick in comparison.

[Teamcheez1]

If I’m Jordan Love, I tell the Packers to pick up my 5th year option or trade me before the draft.

[Joemailman]

Jordan Love excited about finally becoming Packers starting QB.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmJ62ZvWQAAyI9u?format=jpg&name=900x900

[George Cumby]

Why not? ARod's contract is a huge drag on the franchise. If the play level is going to be the same, why not rip the bandaid off this year and get it over with?

Fucking A right.

[texaspackerbacker]

You keep lumping everyone that disagrees with you together using labels like shit head and dumbasses. It just weakens your credibility.

I never called Rodgers a stat whore. I have only ever wanted him to be successful. I have no agenda or desire to be proven right. I'm just sharing what I see and believe. Is it inconceivable to you that people raise questions about Rodgers because they are just reasonably concerned for the Packers?

Well, sorry if the labels don't fit hahahahaha, but just read what some of these imbeciles say - this Thunderdan post and Cumby's above ....... that's about as stupid and shitheadish as you can get. Next year and beyond will tell the story - whether what they say proves to be idiocy either way, success with Rodgers or mediocrity without him. Maybe I'm gonna get proven wrong, but I really don't think so.

[call_me_ishmael]

Rodgers expected to return it sounds like according to Ian Rapoport.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1613974163978321924

[HarveyWallbangers]

Looks like pure speculation.

[Joemailman]

It's speculation, but it's based on the fact that Rodgers would sacrifice huge amounts of money if he retires. So it's not based on nothing.

[George Cumby]

For a guy who's supposedly enlightened and self-actualized, and used to be a Franciscan, IIRC, Erin sure needs a lot of money.

[Bretsky]

a near 40 year old QB who'll soon be making over 1/3 of the cap and we miss the playoffs this year. Bring on Next year :)

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

a near 40 year old QB who'll soon be making over 1/3 of the cap and we miss the playoffs this year. Bring on Next year :)

Next decade?

[King Friday]

Rodgers will come back, simply to ensure that Love never plays for Green Bay. I think that has been his ultimate goal ever since Gute made that draft pick.

[bobblehead]

Rodgers will come back, simply to ensure that Love never plays for Green Bay. I think that has been his ultimate goal ever since Gute made that draft pick.

I can't imagine how you could possibly come to this conclusion. It has zero basis in anything anyone has ever said.

That out of the way, I have no idea what Rodgers is going to do. Its a LOT of money. However he has more than he can spend and he looked quite disinterested all season. I'm not convinced of anything, especially not what is "reported". I think it was one of the "insiders" earlier this season who reported that everyone in the GB organization knows Rodgers is retiring after the season. Now the same group of insiders thinks he will be back. They know as much as I do, which is to say they can read signals. Problem is that Rodgers has given mixed signals so we can only rely on what we know about him. He has a huge ego and won't like going out the way he just did. He also is pretty sharp and probably realizes the organization is ready to move on.

My best bet is he agrees to a trade after 6/1. Thats pure speculation based on all available information I can put together.

[King Friday]

It’s not about what anyone has said. Rodgers isn’t going to come out and say he wants to punch Gute in the sack, but it is very clear by his actions that he has been ENTIRELY about sticking it to Gute whenever he has a chance.

[King Friday]

He also is pretty sharp and probably realizes the organization is ready to move on.

Really? That is not at all what Gute came across with at his latest press conference.

[bobblehead]

Really? That is not at all what Gute came across with at his latest press conference.

If you wanted to trade someone would you announce it to those who may be interested?

[bobblehead]

It’s not about what anyone has said. Rodgers isn’t going to come out and say he wants to punch Gute in the sack, but it is very clear by his actions that he has been ENTIRELY about sticking it to Gute whenever he has a chance.

That may be true, but Rodgers would also realize that what you suggest would be even worse than anything Favre ever did to him. Only a truly awful person hurts someone to get to someone else.

[Bretsky]

Really? That is not at all what Gute came across with at his latest press conference.


I listened to Gutebag's press conference and really read it differently. To me he kept coming accross with a tone of indifference. He gave the gm speak he's going to give Rodgers his space and let him figure out what he'd like to do first.

When I listened to Aaron he sounded like Sharon; referencing whether GB wants him to come back. I think he completely wants to feel loved, wanted, and wants GB to beg and also get him more weapons.

I get the impression Gutebag doesn't wanna beg anymore.


Now as for Flower Boy, Rodgers owns his ass. He's really incapable of being a leader as long as Rodgers is here, IMO, from what I've seen. He skirts around every question he gets like he's terrified of what the other will feel.

[Joemailman]

I listened to Gutebag's press conference and really read it differently. To me he kept coming accross with a tone of indifference. He gave the gm speak he's going to give Rodgers his space and let him figure out what he'd like to do first.

When I listened to Aaron he sounded like Sharon; referencing whether GB wants him to come back. I think he completely wants to feel loved, wanted, and wants GB to beg and also get him more weapons.

I get the impression Gutebag doesn't wanna beg anymore.


Now as for Flower Boy, Rodgers owns his ass. He's really incapable of being a leader as long as Rodgers is here, IMO, from what I've seen. He skirts around every question he gets like he's terrified of what the other will feel.

I basically agree. Gute to me sounded like he wants Aaron Jones back more than Rodgers. One thing that got overlooked was him talking about how he'd like to see all the players here for offseason workouts. I wonder if that was aimed at Rodgers a bit. I get the sense Gute realizes giving Rodgers the extension was a mistake, and is hoping Rodgers will bail him out by retiring or agreeing to a trade. He won't show disrespect for Rodgers, but he won't beg him to stay. Although Rodgers might take take that as disrespect.

[texaspackerbacker]

Another round of irrational comments from dumbasses who pretend to know what's in Rodgers' mind.

Thankfully, there's a helluva lot more sanity from the Packer brass than from many in here.

Where does this shit about a $50 million cap hit come from? Spotrac has it at $31.2 million up from $28.5 this past season. Up $2.7 million ....... I think it's safe to assume the cap will increase a lot more than $2.7 million.

[Teamcheez1]

Whatever AR is getting paid is too much for an aging QB with mediocre stats.

[red]

Another round of irrational comments from dumbasses who pretend to know what's in Rodgers' mind.

Thankfully, there's a helluva lot more sanity from the Packer brass than from many in here.

Where does this shit about a $50 million cap hit come from? Spotrac has it at $31.2 million up from $28.5 this past season. Up $2.7 million ....... I think it's safe to assume the cap will increase a lot more than $2.7 million.

it comes from people just dividing the money by the years of the contract, ignoring how the cap actually works

you are right that he actually is counting just the 28 million against the cap this year, and not 50 million being thrown around

next season he would count 31 million, which is also less then 50

i brought this up a couple months ago in the big rodgers thread

[sharpe1027]

There's no way Gute would say anything other than he wants Rodgers back. Their cap would be really hard to manage if he retires and it's not feasible to cut him.

The Packers are already going to be around $20M over the cap for 2023 with what's on the books now. They have one of the worst cap situations. Expect a bunch of restructuring and maybe some surprise cuts.

[sharpe1027]

The only options that seem possible are:

Rodgers plays and counts $31M towards this year's cap and you have a somewhat similar situation the following year.

Rodgers retires and they resign him to split the cap hit over the next two seasons at around $16M this year and $25M next year.

Trade Rodgers after June 1sr and take basically the same cap hit as the retirement option.

None of the options are particularly good unless Rodgers plays for the Packers and has a great bounce back year. I think that's the best option to hope for, but it's risky long term because you won't have much ammunition to rebuild and potentially lose Love.

For all those people who always beat the drum about win now while we have a window with Rodgers, that's exactly what they did in terms of cap. It didn't work and now it's coming due.

[King Friday]

The only thing Gute would be begging for at this point is a way out of this mess…but begging won’t help that.

[texaspackerbacker]

That's just stupid. Ya'all seriously think the Packers would be better off without Rodgers? And even more ridiculous, you seriously think Gutekunst, LaFleur, etc. have that idiotic mentality? They signed Rodgers with eyes wide open. I strongly suspect they are still glad they did. And undoubtedly that will be vindicated in the next year or two or more. Ideally, all of them and Rodgers too would be reading the shamefully stupid crap some in here are posting, but I doubt it.

[sharpe1027]

What's stupid, Tex? Are you referring to my post?

[texaspackerbacker]

Among others

[run pMc]

That's just stupid. Ya'all seriously think the Packers would be better off without Rodgers? And even more ridiculous, you seriously think Gutekunst, LaFleur, etc. have that idiotic mentality? They signed Rodgers with eyes wide open. I strongly suspect they are still glad they did. And undoubtedly that will be vindicated in the next year or two or more. Ideally, all of them and Rodgers too would be reading the shamefully stupid crap some in here are posting, but I doubt it.

I think they think Rodgers gives them the best chance to win, but I don't think they are glad they did that crazy extension. Rodgers is on the decline and he can't carry a team like he did in the McCarthy era.
My guess is Rodgers comes back, and that's fine. I still think he's a good QB, just not elite. They'll need to figure out what to do with Jordan Love though.

I suppose they could try to move Rodgers in a trade before exercising the $59M bonus, start Love and if he bombs you move on the following year with a high R1 pick to use on a QB and start your rebuild with cap space and Watson/Doubs etc. entering their Year 3.
It might be a better long term solution vs. running Rodgers and the usual suspects back for another year. After an 8-9 season with that group it's hard to be optimistic they will bounce back with Detroit positioned to threaten Minnesota as division champ and Chicago having a ton of cap space. Things change fast and each season is different so I guess anything could happen.

I'm not sure Murphy, Gute and MLF have the stones for a potentially messy breakup with Rodgers (and some angry fans) to pull a trade unless Rodgers requests one.

[Joemailman]

Rodgers can't carry a team anymore. If he's back in 2023, he could be somewhat better for 2 reasons. Presumably the thumb will be healed. The rookie wide receivers won't be rookies anymore. But in the 4th quarter of an elimination game, he'll come up short because he tries to do too much. It's happened 3 years in a row. I think he's past being able to change.

[sharpe1027]

Among others

My post is primarily factual with a conclusion that the best outcome is keeping Rodgers and hopefully he has a bounce back year.

It seems like you're disagreeing just to be a dick at this point.

[ThunderDan]

Well, sorry if the labels don't fit hahahahaha, but just read what some of these imbeciles say - this Thunderdan post and Cumby's above ....... that's about as stupid and shitheadish as you can get. Next year and beyond will tell the story - whether what they say proves to be idiocy either way, success with Rodgers or mediocrity without him. Maybe I'm gonna get proven wrong, but I really don't think so.

If I am a shithead, then that makes you a dumb shit!!

I answered a simple question, if ARod and Love are going to play at the same level, why would you choose to pay $31.6 million instead of $3.9 million for the same production?

That’s complete stupidity.

The question wasn’t who will play better or who gives the Packers a better chance at winning, but your age addled mind apparently can pick that out anymore because it is blinded by you misguided homerism. Especially this year when we finished 8-9 and missed the playoffs.

[ThunderDan]

Fuck, I have season tickets and own more Packer gear than I care to admit. The corporation I worked for had a 4 tickets in the Champions Club before we split off on our our again. My wife went to Super Bowl XXXII before we ever met.

We love the Packers. But that doesn’t mean you can’t analytically look at the team and see where they need improvement.

[red]

If I am a shithead, then that makes you a dumb shit!!

I answered a simple question, if ARod and Love are going to play at the same level, why would you choose to pay $31.6 million instead of $3.9 million for the same production?

That’s complete stupidity.

The question wasn’t who will play better or who gives the Packers a better chance at winning, but your age addled mind apparently can pick that out anymore because it is blinded by you misguided homerism. Especially this year when we finished 8-9 and missed the playoffs.

they really need to ban computer use at nursing homes

how can you have discussions with someone who doesn't even know what reality is?

[Freak Out]

If Arod wants to retire then great. Play Love and draft another QB. If he wants back for another year and you can't trade him then trade love.

[MadtownPacker]

Fuck, I have season tickets and own more Packer gear than I care to admit. The corporation I worked for had a 4 tickets in the Champions Club before we split off on our our again. My wife went to Super Bowl XXXII before we ever met.

We love the Packers. But that doesn’t mean you can’t analytically look at the team and see where they need improvement.Damn, you probably can never live up to the big game before you. :lol:

[MadtownPacker]

they really need to ban computer use at nursing homes

how can you have discussions with someone who doesn't even know what reality is?
They let you post from the penal colony so not much difference.

[sharpe1027]

If Arod wants to retire then great. Play Love and draft another QB. If he wants back for another year and you can't trade him then trade love.

It's all but guaranteed that if they let Love go, he'll make the probowl.

[MadtownPacker]

It's all but guaranteed that if they let Love go, he'll make the probowl.
Maybe also eliminate the Packers from playoff contention….

[Fritz]

I'm with Sharpe. I'm guessing the Packers are going to roll with Rodgers and trade Love.

And just watch. He's going to develop into a promising starting QB, and Rodgers is going to whine his way through another season, offering up excuses like he's getting them from Tex. Then Rodgers will retire, and the Packers will watch Love take the team he's traded to into the Promised Land.

So fuck all ya'all, as they say in Texas. Or at least the ya'alls that want to see them hang on to Rodgers and get rid of Love.

[texaspackerbacker]

The idiocy and dumbassery is in thinking that it's unlikely Rodgers will bounce back. It's also idiotic to think that the Packer brass have the same kind of stupidity manifested by some fools in here.

The question mark would be how Love would play if he got the chance. I'd say the range on that would be from a little below average to a little above average for NFL QBs, which probably is where Rodgers was this past season with the injuries to him and the receivers etc. I say again, it's typically stupid for ya'all haters to expect that to continue.

[run pMc]

it comes from people just dividing the money by the years of the contract, ignoring how the cap actually works

you are right that he actually is counting just the 28 million against the cap this year, and not 50 million being thrown around

next season he would count 31 million, which is also less then 50

i brought this up a couple months ago in the big rodgers thread

The $31M is correct. HOWEVER, if he comes back there's a $59M guaranteed bonus payable between now and the start of training camp. I've heard that if they trade Rodgers this year before the $59M payout, his cap hit is closer to $40M. Cutting him would guarantee the payout, so that's not an option.
The thing is, if he comes back, plays one more year, then the cap hit is closer to 50M+, but it's because he's been paid the $59M bonus. The timing of that is critical, as is the circumstances of his final season with GB.

With how he played this season (arguably his worst as the starter) you have to wonder what the upside is to keeping him and whether they are a legit SB contender. Based on how he played, I'd say the window has closed and he's not worth the money. They could miss the playoffs with or without Rodgers, question is do to want to save themselves a lot of money and start Jordan Love.

[run pMc]

The idiocy and dumbassery is in thinking that it's unlikely Rodgers will bounce back. It's also idiotic to think that the Packer brass have the same kind of stupidity manifested by some fools in here.

The question mark would be how Love would play if he got the chance. I'd say the range on that would be from a little below average to a little above average for NFL QBs, which probably is where Rodgers was this past season with the injuries to him and the receivers etc. I say again, it's typically stupid for ya'all haters to expect that to continue.

On what basis do you think he will bounce back? He dropped off about 20% from his historical performance this year. As a 40 year old QB, what makes you think he's going to get that 20% back? Not being a hater; I legitimately want you to make a coherent case for keeping Rodgers.
(Saying "it's better than indefinite mediocrity" is not a case, nor can you actually prove that -- Jordan Love could possibly be a good QB. )

[RashanGary]

The offensive line was awful and the rookies were finding their way. With better OL play and development from Watson and Doubs, Rodgers could be much more productive.

Tom is likely to improve, and there’s a chance he’s really good.
Bakh has a chance to be healthy all year and be much better
Meyers, Runyan and Jenkins could all be better with health and continuity.
And Doubs and Watson could easily be much better.

It’s not a pipe dream that Rodgers plays much better next year with a better supporting cast. And it’s not a pipe dream that the supporting cast could be better. Nor is it a pipe dream that Rodgers could be healthier.

Tex isn’t too off base, despite the emotional swings of the majority of fans making it seem that way.

[call_me_ishmael]

Kinda wish MILF would make a call to Todd Balls. He’s a great coordinator but a bad head coach. I suspect he will be looking for a job so maybe GB is a good fit.

[call_me_ishmael]

Dallas vs SF is going to be a great game. I kinda think the winner of it wins the NFC. I am rooting for MM.

[texaspackerbacker]

runpMc, I don't consider you part of the group of dumbasses and haters I refer to.

Since you asked: Virtually all of the years he has been a starter for the Packers up until this past season is the reason. 20% dropoff? I woulda thought it was even worse than that. Given the thumb injury as well as injuries to Watson, Doubs, and Lazard as well as inexperience of the rookies, a 20% drop off is not much of a surprise. The best thing about Rodgers' game, not throwing interceptions, was mostly still there. His mobility seemed to be about as good as ever. Yeah, he's 40. So what. Brady, as immobile as he has always been, played good past 40. Why would anybody think Rodgers couldn't do at least as good? With hopefully a full year of improved performance by the rookies as well as possibly improved play by Tonyan a year plus out from his injury as well as IMO a good chance Lazard stays as well as maybe drafting somebody, there's a lot of reason he will have better targets. So why the hell not?

Is that enough for you? I assume it is not for some of these pathetic haters.

After reading RG's post, I'll include probably better O Line play as a reason also. RG, the only quarrel I would have with your post is the idea that it's a majority of people in here posting that idiotic crap - more like 5 or 6 or 7 Rodgers hating dumbasses.

[call_me_ishmael]

I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibility that Rodgers plays significantly better next year. I also think he could play as bad or worse. My gut feeling is he would have a better regular season and lose in the playoffs again in the wild card or divisional round.

[MadScientist]

The offensive line was awful and the rookies were finding their way. With better OL play and development from Watson and Doubs, Rodgers could be much more productive.

Tom is likely to improve, and there’s a chance he’s really good.
Bakh has a chance to be healthy all year and be much better
Meyers, Runyan and Jenkins could all be better with health and continuity.
And Doubs and Watson could easily be much better.

It’s not a pipe dream that Rodgers plays much better next year with a better supporting cast. And it’s not a pipe dream that the supporting cast could be better. Nor is it a pipe dream that Rodgers could be healthier.

Tex isn’t too off base, despite the emotional swings of the majority of fans making it seem that way.
It's not a pipe dream that Rodgers is better and the supporting cast is better. It's a bit of a stretch for all the players listed to improve and be healthy. It is probably a pipe dream to think that Rodgers will put up the numbers he did in 2020 and 2021. So where does that leave the Packers? Playoffs and a 1 and done.

The Packers are stuck with Rodgers so we'll have to hope for the best. I'm just not expecting it to be that great.

[sharpe1027]

The idiocy and dumbassery is in thinking that it's unlikely Rodgers will bounce back. It's also idiotic to think that the Packer brass have the same kind of stupidity manifested by some fools in here.

The question mark would be how Love would play if he got the chance. I'd say the range on that would be from a little below average to a little above average for NFL QBs, which probably is where Rodgers was this past season with the injuries to him and the receivers etc. I say again, it's typically stupid for ya'all haters to expect that to continue.

It's not idiocy. Before this season started we both know you would have called someone an idiot if they expressed concern that Rodgers would have a poor year and play like an average QB. He did.

Everyone knows he has the chance to bounce back. Everyone but you also realizes there are legit reasons to be concerned. Your position is so extreme that your valid points lose credibility.

[RashanGary]

It's not a pipe dream that Rodgers is better and the supporting cast is better. It's a bit of a stretch for all the players listed to improve and be healthy. It is probably a pipe dream to think that Rodgers will put up the numbers he did in 2020 and 2021. So where does that leave the Packers? Playoffs and a 1 and done.

The Packers are stuck with Rodgers so we'll have to hope for the best. I'm just not expecting it to be that great.

Starting the season, the best odds any team has at a SB is 1 in 4. So literally no team in the league is ever expected to win the SB. Saying we’re unlikely to win the Super Bowl is just stating the obvious.

The Packers need a really special offseason of growth from young players. It’s possible to win one with 12. And the situation isn’t that dire.

[SudsMcBucky]

The offensive line was awful and the rookies were finding their way. With better OL play and development from Watson and Doubs, Rodgers could be much more productive.

Tom is likely to improve, and there’s a chance he’s really good.
Bakh has a chance to be healthy all year and be much better
Meyers, Runyan and Jenkins could all be better with health and continuity.
And Doubs and Watson could easily be much better.

It’s not a pipe dream that Rodgers plays much better next year with a better supporting cast. And it’s not a pipe dream that the supporting cast could be better. Nor is it a pipe dream that Rodgers could be healthier.

Tex isn’t too off base, despite the emotional swings of the majority of fans making it seem that way.

Above all those things, I think the thing that hurt him the MOST this year was his thumb injury. He will/should be fully healed from that to start next season.

[Tony Oday]

AR will be the MVP next year.

[call_me_ishmael]

AR will be the MVP next year.

If he's on a different team

[Fritz]

Kinda wish MILF would make a call to Todd Balls. He’s a great coordinator but a bad head coach. I suspect he will be looking for a job so maybe GB is a good fit.

Lots of posters here think LeFleur needs Balls.

[Deputy Nutz]

MLF and Gute need to simply approach Rodgers like McCarthy and Thompson approached Favre, "We aren't going to make any special circumstances for you anymore in Green Bay, we would like to have you back in Green Bay, but our roster is in the hands of the front office and we like always will do our best to put together a championship roster."

For a guy that states that he is all about relationships, Rodgers should know that when you take up 1/4 of the salary cap certain buddies of yours won't be able to stick around anymore because they make too much money and the Packers can't afford to pay Rodger's buddies that are free agents. Do you want Aaron Jones on the roster, or Randall Cobb and Mercedes Lewis? Do you want David Baktari on the roster, or would you rather the team resign Rashan Gary? For as intelligent as everyone claims Rodgers is, he sure acts completely ignorant how the NFL actually works. Maybe if he didn't fuck up the cap situation by demanding his 2023 year on his old contract be voided so he could sign a new 200 million dollar deal just so his ego could be appeased the Packers would have negotiated earlier with Devante Adams and wouldn't have insulted him.

The guy is an asshole and every interview he does you can just see it drip out of the fake mask he wears as a compassionate teammate and relationship builder in the locker room. The Packers are completely held hostage by his contract. There is no realistic way the Packers can make any moves with the numbers on the books whether he stays, retires, or gets traded. He has handcuffed the franchise with his embarrassing over blown ego.

Refuse to sign Cobb, restructure or cut Baktari, send Lewis into retirement and make it clear to Rodgers who is in charge, and that his play simply doesn't dictate who stays, comes, or goes anymore, because his play ain't that great anymore.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Funny how a burger flipper is smarter than y’all professionals on here. I am talking about y’all professors, business executives and even our resident CPA.

Bluntly put, the cap is irrelevant, as it can always be cooked. The cap serves no other purpose but to cut labor expenses for the pig owners. The Packers ain’t feeding a pig, as they ain’t got one since that Irish drunk sold the team for sixpence. They have, what, $800M sitting in a bank earning interests faster than the speed of fuck. Bezo’s making it rain.

Cash flow, not the cap, is the thing. And the Packers ain’t lacking cashing flow. Cook the fucking cap and buy a fucking Super Bowl, for fuck’s sake! The fucking Sheep-fuckers (Rams) did it!

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Let’s put all the cap misunderstandings to rest: no team in a cap hell (thanks to its diva QB, right?) would be able to pay the Fucking Center, a milksop at tackle, $68M to play to play LG.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Btw, good to smell you again, Nutz. Still listening to Coldplay and showing American Underdog to your players?

[Deputy Nutz]

Btw, good to smell you again, Nutz. Still listening to Coldplay and showing American Underdog to your players?

No, and No.

Cap hell is a bit of a stretch, but the reality is as teams have given away more and more guaranteed money the cap has limited wiggle room. The reason Rodgers deal is so heavy on the cap is because he has never shown that he is willing to restructure. It would be nice if he was going to retire that he would restructure and the Packers could push some of the cap hit through multiple years. The Best option since the Packers are paying for Rodgers in 2023 and 2024 is to have him play, but corners will be cut in the next couple of years until his contract is off the books.

[texaspackerbacker]

Plus One to all three of yours, APB.

About the only thing those posters you mentioned are right about is that the Packers are "stuck with" Rodgers for a couple of years. What they're stupidly wrong about is thinking that is a bad thing. BTW, APB, did you notice, you're pretty much in agreement with TonyOday? Hell yeah, there's a good chance Rodgers will again be MVP next year. I tned to think comeback player of the year is more likely, though. He may not get the stats he had back when those same dumbasses were calling him a stat whore.

The scenario I would expect is that he plays those two years, and after next year hhe gets extended with void years or whatever, thus cooking the cap and making it entirely possible he plays a couple more beyond that - as well as smoothng things out so the team is not too bad off when he finally does hang it up.

[ThunderDan]

Hell yeah, there's a good chance Rodgers will again be MVP next year.

TPB, what do you think the odds are of Rodgers winning the MVP in 2023 if you feel there is a good chance?

[call_me_ishmael]

The elephant in the room WRT to the cap is the Packers don't have good young players coming up to make the expensive old guys expendable. Nobody would care about trading Bak or something if they had another up-and-coming tackle coming. Their difference makers are all on their second contract and the 2020 and 2021 drafts look like ass and are killing the team. 2018, 2019 look pretty good.

[run pMc]

Thanks for the responses.
I agree it's possible Rodgers has a bounce back year. Not everything was his fault.

I will say the offensive line was NOT "awful" - they finished 3rd in PFF's rankings. They started the year rough but got better each week. That they thought Hanson/Newman was a good pairing on the right OL makes me wonder about the coaching/self-scouting of the team. Overall Rodgers pressured rate % was down and the Jones/Dillon gained 1800-ish yards rushing.

Bakh won't get much better, he's about as good as he's going to be going forward. If the knee isn't an issue anymore he can be good player. Jenkins might get a little better with more time from the knee injury. I think that side of the line is pretty good but you're not likely to see much improvement there.

I'm not sure how much better Myers, Runyan or Njiman get.

It's possible the rookies (Tom, Watson, Doubs, etc.) make a leap. I certainly hope they do. It's just as possible they have a Sophomore Slump.

They're bringing Joe Barry back; how much better can they be with him at DC? Walker should be better, Wyatt too. Stokes and Gary will be coming back from bad injuries and probably won't play until mid-season. They were atrocious vs. the run. Counting on internal improvement from the rookies is a real thing, but it's not the only thing.

They will start the year over the cap and will have to redo some contracts or cut players. They probably will get a new K who might not be as clutch. They might not be able to afford Nixon who helped their ST look good. A number of starters are UFAs and either won't or shouldn't be back. (Lewis, Lazard, Tonyan, Cobb, Crosby, Amos, Lowry, Reed) You might get addition by subtraction there.

Finally we get to Rodgers, who had his most interceptions since 2008. His accuracy has declined, his mobility has declined, and his Y/C, Y/A, and ANY/A were also the lowest of his career as a starter. He crossed the 250 passing yards threshold 3 times this season, and hasn't passed for 300 since Week 10 of the previous season. He had 5 games this season -- including 3 of the final 6 -- where he didn't crack 200 yards passing. This is not a QB with performance trending up. I cannot stress that enough.
You could argue the decline started last season...he started to look iffy leading up to and especially in that SF playoff game. he's 40 - maybe he hates getting hit, maybe it's the cold.
He's been a great QB but he isn't one anymore. You're paying him to lift the team, I don't think he can do that either. He will need to be surrounded by playmakers who will have to do the heavy lifting. Hard to do that when you don't have cap space.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think:
he comes back to GB & they pay his $59M
he leads them to 10-7 and a WC playoff exit before deciding he's had enough, disappearing into the jungle and leaving a cap mess behind.
They never find out what they have in Jordan Love and lose him in FA and
GB starts all over from scratch in 2024.

[Joemailman]

I hope I'm wrong, but I think:
he comes back to GB & they pay his $59M
he leads them to 10-7 and a WC playoff exit before deciding he's had enough, disappearing into the jungle and leaving a cap mess behind.
They never find out what they have in Jordan Love and lose him in FA and
GB starts all over from scratch in 2024.

They won't lose Love in FA. They'll pick up his 5th year option next May and either keep him or give in to his trade demands before the draft and pick up a draft pick or 2. So they might hit 2024 without both Love and Rodgers. If Gute allows that to happen it will be...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-JAGVV4EKvk8/UpS-RfDOEXI/AAAAAAAAPKs/oWm4n_T4XtU/s1600/pitchforks.gif

[texaspackerbacker]

TPB, what do you think the odds are of Rodgers winning the MVP in 2023 if you feel there is a good chance?

Certainly not impossible. After all, there are something over 1,700 players in the league hahahaha. I would almost bet money that he would win Comeback Player of the Year. Like I said in the earlier post, his stats won't be as high as a few years ago, though, because the team will probably rely more on the running game. I always try to answer a question, so odds: somewhere between 10:1 and 20:1, which would be better than all but a handfull of QBs in the league.

[texaspackerbacker]

runpMc, fairly good comprehensive summary although I disagree with a lot of your conclusions.

Joe, I agree also with what you say about picking up Love's option and then either keeping or trading him.

[Deputy Nutz]

Certainly not impossible. After all, there are something over 1,700 players in the league hahahaha. I would almost bet money that he would win Comeback Player of the Year. Like I said in the earlier post, his stats won't be as high as a few years ago, though, because the team will probably rely more on the running game. I always try to answer a question, so odds: somewhere between 10:1 and 20:1, which would be better than all but a handfull of QBs in the league.

For Rodgers to improve on a down year by his standards, and to regain the form it would take to win an MVP or even comeback player of the year he would have to put in 100% effort in the off-season. He has to improve his body, his speed, and his footwork. His arm strength has diminished because his legs are not what they once were. His arm strength isn't there because he can't put enough sauce on the ball when his feet aren't under him. I think if Rodgers re-dedicates himself like he did in 2020 off season he just might get back to the MVP level. Like I said in the previous post, he ain't no Tom Brady in the off season.

Also, he never said in an interview that he could once again lead this team to a Super Bowl, he said he could see himself winning another MVP in the right situation. Rodgers is and always has been a player that looks out for #1.

[Deputy Nutz]

runpMc, fairly good comprehensive summary although I disagree with a lot of your conclusions.

Joe, I agree also with what you say about picking up Love's option and then either keeping or trading him.

It really doesn't matter Tex, as soon as Rodgers is gone, you will either cheer the trade and become a fanboy of the next GB QB, or if Rodgers retires you will cherish the memories and become a fanboy of the next GB QB. I don't know why you hold on so tight.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

It really doesn't matter Tex, as soon as Rodgers is gone, you will either cheer the trade and become a fanboy of the next GB QB, or if Rodgers retires you will cherish the memories and become a fanboy of the next GB QB. I don't know why you hold on so tight.

Tex has always been delusional.

Green Bay has to start over and no time like the present..

[bobblehead]

The offensive line was awful and the rookies were finding their way. With better OL play and development from Watson and Doubs, Rodgers could be much more productive.

Tom is likely to improve, and there’s a chance he’s really good.
Bakh has a chance to be healthy all year and be much better
Meyers, Runyan and Jenkins could all be better with health and continuity.
And Doubs and Watson could easily be much better.

It’s not a pipe dream that Rodgers plays much better next year with a better supporting cast. And it’s not a pipe dream that the supporting cast could be better. Nor is it a pipe dream that Rodgers could be healthier.

Tex isn’t too off base, despite the emotional swings of the majority of fans making it seem that way.

I agree with everything you said, but still think trading Rodgers is the best move for the franchise. Its just time. Love is ready. Rodgers has 2 seasons left at best based on his body language. He isn't all in to win in the NFL anymore. He is thinking about life after football. You can't be in a marriage and be thinking about how great it will be when you get divorced once the kids leave for college.

We should trade Rodgers and watch him have 2 good years, just like we did Favre. Love might not be the man, or he might be, but the time to find out is right now. Honestly, when Rodgers decided to NOT run for the endzone against TB I realized it was likely all over. You can win an MVP. You can put up nice numbers. But unless you have that fire in your belly, you ain't winning an OWL.

[Joemailman]

Andrew Brandt
@AndrewBrandt

The same conversations the past two years.
The team has blinked until this point.
Now? We will see..

Ken Ingalls - Packers Cap ������
@KenIngalls

My gut tells me in the first post-week 18 conversations between Rodgers & Packers (among other asks) Aaron discussed ensuring his close buddies like Cobb, Lewis, Tonyan, Crosby, and Bakhtiari would be back on the 2023 roster, and it was not met with enthusiasm from the Packers.

This is likely right.

[bobblehead]

The elephant in the room WRT to the cap is the Packers don't have good young players coming up to make the expensive old guys expendable. Nobody would care about trading Bak or something if they had another up-and-coming tackle coming. Their difference makers are all on their second contract and the 2020 and 2021 drafts look like ass and are killing the team. 2018, 2019 look pretty good.

Disagree. They have 2 WR who will be on rookie deals for awhile yet. They drafted an OLB who will be on a rookie deal for a bit and he looked pretty good. Tom, Meyers are both on rookie deals. Quay and Wyatt are on rookie deals. Stokes is on a rookie deal. We are also carrying a mountain of dead money. We also are set to pay a RB a mountain of money. We look like any team who has an old vet QB on his 3rd or 4th deal and the numbers are coming home.

Expendable old guys? I'm not aware of any team so talented that the can just cut good players for fun.

[Fritz]

For Rodgers to improve on a down year by his standards, and to regain the form it would take to win an MVP or even comeback player of the year he would have to put in 100% effort in the off-season. He has to improve his body, his speed, and his footwork. His arm strength has diminished because his legs are not what they once were. His arm strength isn't there because he can't put enough sauce on the ball when his feet aren't under him. I think if Rodgers re-dedicates himself like he did in 2020 off season he just might get back to the MVP level. Like I said in the previous post, he ain't no Tom Brady in the off season.

Also, he never said in an interview that he could once again lead this team to a Super Bowl, he said he could see himself winning another MVP in the right situation. Rodgers is and always has been a player that looks out for #12.

There you go, Nutzy.

Agree with you, and agree with Bobble. Let's see Gutes trade him after June 1, get what he can, and try the Love train. If he shows enough to be the guy, then good. If not, you start over. Rodgers can go somewhere else and be all pissed off and bust his ass and have another good year (which I don't think he will, but okay), then keep his new team dangling while he muses over whether to come back for another year.

[bobblehead]

There you go, Nutzy.

Agree with you, and agree with Bobble. Let's see Gutes trade him after June 1, get what he can, and try the Love train. If he shows enough to be the guy, then good. If not, you start over. Rodgers can go somewhere else and be all pissed off and bust his ass and have another good year (which I don't think he will, but okay), then keep his new team dangling while he muses over whether to come back for another year.

IT would be reminiscent of Favre leaving and doing all the things the Packer brass begged him to do that he refused. Worked out all offseason. Stopped throwing late over the middle. Took the underneath stuff when it was there. Brents best "post MVP" years came after we traded him and he decided to "show us". What he showed is that the brass had been right all along.

[George Cumby]

Lots of posters here think LeFleur licks Balls.

FTFY

[King Friday]

The fact that Rodgers is more worried about returning to MVP form than winning a Super Bowl tells me all I need to know. Dump the diva now. He’s only out for himself.

[Joemailman]

The fact that Rodgers is more worried about returning to MVP form than winning a Super Bowl tells me all I need to know. Dump the diva now. He’s only out for himself.

To be fair, Rodgers did say in the interview that winning is important to him: “Because there’s no point in coming back if you don’t think you can win it all.”

[call_me_ishmael]

TPB, what do you think the odds are of Rodgers winning the MVP in 2023 if you feel there is a good chance?

90% if he is traded. Historic regular season followed laying an egg is divisional round or championship round.

[call_me_ishmael]

Disagree. They have 2 WR who will be on rookie deals for awhile yet. They drafted an OLB who will be on a rookie deal for a bit and he looked pretty good. Tom, Meyers are both on rookie deals. Quay and Wyatt are on rookie deals. Stokes is on a rookie deal. We are also carrying a mountain of dead money. We also are set to pay a RB a mountain of money. We look like any team who has an old vet QB on his 3rd or 4th deal and the numbers are coming home.

Expendable old guys? I'm not aware of any team so talented that the can just cut good players for fun.

The reality is all of their stars are on expensive contracts. 2020 draft sucks majorly. They have literally no one other than RJR and Dillon and they’re just a guy. 2021 is Kosh Myers, who is not a top 15 center, and Stokes, who looks like he could be good but looked below average this year.

If they had two pro bowlers or close out of those ~15 picks, they’d be in really good shape right now.

[Bretsky]

To be fair, Rodgers did say in the interview that winning is important to him: “Because there’s no point in coming back if you don’t think you can win it all.”

and then he randomly started blabbing about how he doesn't want to be part of a rebuild, and can be MVP form "with the right people around him" and then he went on to pimp Mercedes Lewis, The Lizard, Tonyan, his BFF Randall Cobb, and Bach.

Dear Rodgers, SUAP

SHUT UP AND PLAY


P.S.

YOU SUCK AS A GM

[run pMc]

The fact that Rodgers is more worried about returning to MVP form than winning a Super Bowl tells me all I need to know. Dump the diva now. He’s only out for himself.

For context: I think the answer was in response to a question about his own performance, not the team itself. Something about critics saying he's washed.

I don't think he's washed, but in 1-2 more seasons he will be. Father Time being undefeated and all.
(and before someone throws out Brady as an example, ol' Tom is a unicorn. Plus, he stunk this year and last year showed signs of meh. The SB year he had a very very good OL, Godwin/Evans/Gronk/AB as receivers and an elite playmaking defense. He wasn't carrying that team, he had lots of help.)

[texaspackerbacker]

It really doesn't matter Tex, as soon as Rodgers is gone, you will either cheer the trade and become a fanboy of the next GB QB, or if Rodgers retires you will cherish the memories and become a fanboy of the next GB QB. I don't know why you hold on so tight.

The simple fact is, Rodgers is the GOAT QB, maybe GOAT NFL player. I had an extremely high opinion of Favre too, of course. All things considered, he was certainly close to be the greatest as of his time. I saw something in Rodgers, though, maybe before most people, that he was going to be even greater, and I was in agreement with the decision at the time to not let Rodgers go - even knowing it meant Favre wouldn't finish in Green Bay. As for whatever comes next, if he approaches GOAT level, that's wonderful, and damn straight I'd want to hang onto whoever it is. I'd put it at about 20/80 or less that Love is that good. As blessed as we Packer fans have been, though, who knows if Vince pulls some strings up there and gets us another on the Favre/Rodgers level or near it.

You said in your other post "if Rodgers does whatever in the offseason" and that "maybe he isn't up to Brady level in that". Where does that come from? First of all, considering the huge money everybody in the NFL makes, I doubt if virtually any do not do their offseason training at pretty much 100%. Secondly, I don't think there's a bit of evidence that Rodgers doesn't. Other than the effects of the thumb injury, was there any evidence of diminished arm strength? I'd say no. Diminished accuracy, sometimes, but that even more so was probably the thumb. His legs? He showed the mobility and ability to run on rare occasions just about as good as ever - way better than Brady ever did, Throwing problems because of his legs? He always has thrown a lot from nonstandard positions - almost as much as Favre. That ability shows the arm strength - putting the "sauce" on it even without his legs set under him.

As for improving, the worst thing this season to me was the interceptions - the greatest of all his great qualities over his career. What did he throw? 11 or something like that? Still better than most other top level QBs. I certainly dobn't think that was due to a change in his mindset not to throw picks. It was the injury as well as the inexperienced receivers for the most part. Thus, I expect that absolutely to return to MVP level next season.

A lot was made by the shitheads in here of the fact that he threw for less yardage - none or very few 300 yard games. Well, that was likely same idiots who whined that he was a "stat whore" in years where he threw for a lot more yardage. The main reason, of course for the lesser passing yards was dependence on the running game as well as the inexperienced receivers. That should improve some next season, but I still don't expect it to get to the level of his MVP years.

The bottom line in terms of MVP or Comeback Player or whatever is the record of the team. If we get to 13-4 or 14-3 again, very possible IMO, then hell yeah. If we win or at least get to the Super Bowl, there's a strong chance he gets MVP, as the team sure won't get that far if he isn't playing at a high level.

As for cheering for a trade - like the dumbasses in here are craving? First of all, hell no - not unless it is 4 or 5 years from now and the next Rodgers level QB is waiting in the wings. and second of all, it just ain't gonna happen in the short term. One thing even the dumbasses wanting a trade I think would agree, his contract - for better or worse, I say BETTER - effectively prevents a trade. Some people in here whine about Rodgers demanding huge money and holding the team hostage or whatever. What he got - and what IMO was his motivation - was a contract that effectively kept him in Green Bay/prevented a trade. And clearly - to me at least - that's what Gutekunst and LaFleur wanted too - paying him so much that staying is way more attractive than retiring. The shitheads think that is a bad thing. I don't, and I think it's safe to say Gutekunst and LaFleur don't think it's a bad thing either.

[run pMc]

As for improving, the worst thing this season to me was the interceptions - the greatest of all his great qualities over his career. What did he throw? 11 or something like that? Still better than most other top level QBs. I certainly dobn't think that was due to a change in his mindset not to throw picks. It was the injury as well as the inexperienced receivers for the most part. Thus, I expect that absolutely to return to MVP level next season.

You might be surprised to know Rodgers is listed at #9 for most interceptions this year. Mahomes and Burrow also threw 12 interceptions, but a lower % of their throws were intercepted, and they also threw for far more yards and touchdowns. In other words, they had some picks but generally were more efficient and effective throwers. Adams was a very good outlet for 50/50 and "fuck it" throws from Rodgers; I suspect losing him was a cause... I think that level of trust took years to build and won't magically happen next season. His Int % might improve but his MVP days are done. Mahomes threw for 800 more yards for crying out loud.

I don't accuse him of being a stat whore, and the run game was generally good this year -- with some exceptions, often due to OL issues or MLF not calling runs enough or Rodgers checking out of them. They didn't really gain more yardage running this year vs. last, and didn't really run the ball much more either... so that argument doesn't really hold. If he's so good he should be able to make even inexperienced receivers work...and what about Lazard, Cobb and Tonyan? They aren't inexperienced. Not saying they aren't factors in his performance but I think you're overemphasizing them.

The thumb injury hurt his production but if he can't throw he shouldn't play. They have Jordan Love as a backup, see what he's got. By the Rams game his thumb was better, and he still wasn't throwing it great. I'm skeptical of just how much water the excuses hold.

[call_me_ishmael]

Are we even having this discussion if Gooter landed one solid starter in the 2020 and 2021 drafts? The team is looking not as talented _because_ the team isn't as talented. Those two drafts are the reason why. You get 2 or 3 solid starters from both of those drafts and this team is absolutely loaded right now.

[Deputy Nutz]

If the Packers are "lucky" enough to stick with Rodgers, then the 2020 is all in all pretty terrible because Love still hasn't contributed as a 1st round pick. Dillion was over valued as a 2nd round pick. Frustrating because if you were willing to use a 2nd round pick on a running back, instead of trading up for Love you could have held your original pick and taken Johnathan Taylor, I don't think anyone here would argue that Dillion is a better back than Taylor. Deguara was also over valued for what he brings, you would expect more from a 3rd round pick than being a decent blocker out of the Y-off position.

Packers also passed on a need at LB when drafting Love, they had Queen, and Brooks on the board when they selected Love. Both are far better than anything the Packers have in Green Bay.

2021 Draft, hard to value this draft with it only being two seasons ago, I really liked Eric Stokes as a rookie. He probably played more than anyone thought because of the injury to Alexander. He can run but his agility isn't top tier, has issues flipping his hips and being able to break on the comeback route. Also might not be the smartest cat in the DB room, hard to see the progress when he was hurt for 12 games this season, Josh Myers is slightly above average, He has also been banged up with knee injuries so its tough to get a good read on his progress. Amari Rodgers is garbage. Weird, because at the time it was a pretty decent value pick. Slaton has been ok on the defensive line, most likely will be a rotation guy or fill guy which isn't terrible for the round you drafted him in.

So far in two drafts you haven't gotten one stud or superstar out of those classes. I agree more attention should be paid to how shitty Gute has drafted in recent times.

[Deputy Nutz]

You said in your other post "if Rodgers does whatever in the offseason" and that "maybe he isn't up to Brady level in that". Where does that come from? First of all, considering the huge money everybody in the NFL makes, I doubt if virtually any do not do their offseason training at pretty much 100%.
Brady is known for ridiculous amount of training in the off-season and doing what he can to keep father time at bay. I think Brady is the Mount Rushmore of off season training as far as QBs are concerned. My reference to this, is when Rodgers's season fell apart in the last year of McCarthy everyone said he was washed up or at the very least on the down side of his career.
He of course took it personal and talked about his training regiments over and over again with McAfee. He got into power lifting and said his legs never felt better. Now you see him go on vacations with his ex girlfriend and movie stars, or his trips into another dimension taking the purple drank from the shaman. Look at his stats in the last several years, particularly his rushing stats. They have fallen off each year. It was one of his most under rated qualities because defenses had to account for it, which opened up the high low game for the Packers passing offense. Defenses can just sit on the curl/flat routes now because he doesn't break the pocket as often. He can't get out of the pocket either! He took too many sacks in 2023.


Secondly, I don't think there's a bit of evidence that Rodgers doesn't. Other than the effects of the thumb injury, was there any evidence of diminished arm strength? I'd say no. Diminished accuracy, sometimes, but that even more so was probably the thumb. His legs? He showed the mobility and ability to run on rare occasions just about as good as ever - way better than Brady ever did, Throwing problems because of his legs? He always has thrown a lot from nonstandard positions - almost as much as Favre. That ability shows the arm strength - putting the "sauce" on it even without his legs set under him.
Not this year, you can blame the thumb injury, but I saw a lack of accuracy and the ability to get the ball out to the side line when his feet weren't set. I will never compare Rodgers ability to run the ball to Brady's. Rodgers although needs it a bit more than Brady ever did. It wasn't as good as ever because he got tracked down from behind way more this year than ever before.


As for improving, the worst thing this season to me was the interceptions - the greatest of all his great qualities over his career. What did he throw? 11 or something like that? Still better than most other top level QBs. I certainly dobn't think that was due to a change in his mindset not to throw picks. It was the injury as well as the inexperienced receivers for the most part. Thus, I expect that absolutely to return to MVP level next season.

A lot was made by the shitheads in here of the fact that he threw for less yardage - none or very few 300 yard games. Well, that was likely same idiots who whined that he was a "stat whore" in years where he threw for a lot more yardage. The main reason, of course for the lesser passing yards was dependence on the running game as well as the inexperienced receivers. That should improve some next season, but I still don't expect it to get to the level of his MVP years.
Aaron is never going to throw a lot of INTs, some of them this year were very unlike Aaron in years past. Almost careless with some of his passes, which has never been a fault of his. New receiving core can also be responsible for some of it, but him not seeing safeties and defenders sneaking into zones or robbing zones was a head scratcher this year


The bottom line in terms of MVP or Comeback Player or whatever is the record of the team. If we get to 13-4 or 14-3 again, very possible IMO, then hell yeah. If we win or at least get to the Super Bowl, there's a strong chance he gets MVP, as the team sure won't get that far if he isn't playing at a high level.
Obviously great QB play is the biggest trump card in the NFL. If Rodgers comes back and plays like the 2021 or 2020 Rodgers then I think the Packers will be very successful. I think it's about 50/50 he can do that. What doesn't work is constantly being at odds with the front office and coaching staff. That's not good for anybody.


As for cheering for a trade - like the dumbasses in here are craving? First of all, hell no - not unless it is 4 or 5 years from now and the next Rodgers level QB is waiting in the wings. and second of all, it just ain't gonna happen in the short term. One thing even the dumbasses wanting a trade I think would agree, his contract - for better or worse, I say BETTER - effectively prevents a trade. Some people in here whine about Rodgers demanding huge money and holding the team hostage or whatever. What he got - and what IMO was his motivation - was a contract that effectively kept him in Green Bay/prevented a trade. And clearly - to me at least - that's what Gutekunst and LaFleur wanted too - paying him so much that staying is way more attractive than retiring. The shitheads think that is a bad thing. I don't, and I think it's safe to say Gutekunst and LaFleur don't think it's a bad thing either.
I don't know about a trade, Rodgers has made the money regardless if he is traded or if he wants the trade. He for some reason doesn't think the Packers have or willing to do what it takes to win a Super Bowl. I think he is a control freak, he knows that the only thing he can really control is himself so thats why he talks so much about MVP, its an individual awards, its within his control. Too many moving pieces to talk about Super Bowl or bust. My point to you personally, is if the Packers did trade him you would positively spin it so that you support it.

[texaspackerbacker]

You make some valid points on some of that, and not so much on others.

On the offseason thing, I've heard that about Brady too, but my point was, these days, who in the NFL doesn't do that. As for Rodgers, is there really any reason to think he didn't do as much as Brady or anybody else, just because of his well-publicized activities? Do any of us know for sure how much he does or doesn't do? The result of the training is the best indicator, and he certainly didn't appear to be out of shape. And I say again, anything with the arm could probably be attributed to the thumb. Brady does all that training, and he ain't and never has been the QB Rodgers or a lot of others are with respect to his legs? What does that say about the two of them? Age creeps up on everybody (even me sometimes hahahaha), so Rodgers may have been a little bit slower or less mobile, but certainly not much.

I noticed the same uncharacteristic shit on the interceptions as well as some other throws he got away with that didn't seem normal for him. Most of those, though, were in a few bad games. The healthier the thumb got and the WRs got, the more he looked like his old self.

The crap about Rodgers fighting with LaFleur and to slightly less extent with Gutekunst is greatly overblown IMO - a product of media bastards doing their damnedest to stir up trouble. Some in here seem to swallow the shit like it's candy. Everything I've heard from the principals involved says mostly harmony, during the season anyway. There might have been some wrangling before the contract, but not after. And the "control freak" thing? To the very small extent (IMO) that was true, the team was better off for it.

[Bretsky]

The crap about Rodgers fighting with LaFleur and to slightly less extent with Gutekunst is greatly overblown IMO - a product of media bastards doing their damnedest to stir up trouble. Some in here seem to swallow the shit like it's candy. Everything I've heard from the principals involved says mostly harmony, during the season anyway. There might have been some wrangling before the contract, but not after. And the "control freak" thing? To the very small extent (IMO) that was true, the team was better off for it.



I think it's much worse. And I think Rodgers has encourages and is almost a part of the media bastards now. Remember when Brett Favre used to ask himself questions in front the media, and then answer himself. Rodgers has resorted to the same shit lately. The more you listen to Erin the media guy answer his own questions on the show with the Jokester the worse he sounds.

Did you hear Rodgers interview where he said the last three of Flowers play calls in that loss stunk ? And did you see the follow up question to Flower about how he felt about Aaron making those comments ? Flower just squirmed and he looked like he wanted to cry. Flower feels helpless at this point and watched every word he says. I think Gute is fed up with the Assitant GM part of Rodgers and at this point I don't blame him.

The team is no better off with Randall Cobb and Mercedes Lewis taking up roster spots and that should be Gute's call. But Rodgers the media guy asks himself the question on the show with his tool and then answers it all and there is no good that comes out of that. It's just more leveraging from the Assistant GM. And while I'm perfectly FINE with Rodgers if he's going to come back as a TEAM player, he needs to be FIRED as the ASSISTANT GM.

If he's going to leverage bringing back sub par players in place of young guys with upside, that is not a leader I want to have anymore.

[Bretsky]

The crap about Rodgers fighting with LaFleur and to slightly less extent with Gutekunst is greatly overblown IMO - a product of media bastards doing their damnedest to stir up trouble. Some in here seem to swallow the shit like it's candy. Everything I've heard from the principals involved says mostly harmony, during the season anyway. There might have been some wrangling before the contract, but not after. And the "control freak" thing? To the very small extent (IMO) that was true, the team was better off for it.


I'd add this to. This is what RODGERS SHOULD HAVE SAID AFTER THE SEASON......

It was a fun ending to the season, and we obviously have a lot of youthful talent at the receiving position and maybe we'll have the opportunity to add more. We finished the season winning 4 of the last 5 games and many of us were working through injuries last year.

I'm really excited about continuing the develop the chemistry with your youngers receivers and making a playoff run next year when we are all healthy

WOULD THAT HAVE REALLY BEEN THAT HARD ?

Instead, he turns to Sharon after the Bears game, starting to use the media tools to play the game....that at the end of the year he's going to have to see if GB wants him back and he wants to continue.

AT THAT POINT, WE KNEW THE DRAMA WAS ON IT'S WAY AGAIN

[sharpe1027]

Favre doesn't need to go public with this type of statements. The fact that is does shows it's more about himself than the team.

That's separate from his ability to still play, but annoying just the same.

[call_me_ishmael]

It is absolutely malpriactice to not at least see if you can get old man Fangio in for an interview.

[Fritz]

It is absolutely malpriactice to not at least see if you can get old man Fangio in for an interview.

I was reading an article in PFF and saw this great Joe Barely slam just kinda casually ending a segment on which Packer free agent the team could least afford to lose: "But with Green Bay keeping defensive coordinator Joe Barry on staff, it doesn’t seem to matter how many investments they make on defense."

How true that is.

[bobblehead]

It is absolutely malpriactice to not at least see if you can get old man Fangio in for an interview.

Fangio, Leonhard, Evero, Bowles, Del Rio

This would be the time to make a switch.

[texaspackerbacker]

I agree, but it seems like there's a strong chance LaFleur does not.

[call_me_ishmael]

It does make you kind of wonder. If they are going to trade ARod, you'd think they'd clean house and start over. Keeping this dude maybe implies they're not going to do that.

[Bretsky]

Maybe they think the Love Machine might be successful

[The Shadow]

It is absolutely malpriactice to not at least see if you can get old man Fangio in for an interview.

This.

[Joemailman]

Fangio has signed with Dolphins making him NFL's highest paid coordinator.

[call_me_ishmael]

Maybe they think the Love Machine might be successful

Fair but I do think they’d still clean house a bit and get out of cap trouble now because if he’s good they’re gonna be paying for the medicine of past deeds in year two and three when he’s established vs year one.

[Bretsky]

It is absolutely malpriactice to not at least see if you can get old man Fangio in for an interview.


Looks like VIC is getting hired.

Flower Boy is happy with his buddy JoeBlow

[Teamcheez1]

The thing that I find odd is that the Packers have made zero changes to their coaching staff. You see teams that made the playoffs making changes to their staffs, but we are apparently happy with every coaches performance and see no need to make changes.

This makes me start to question MLF and his leadership as the head coach.

[red]

Maybe they think the Love Machine might be successful

would have been nice to find out, but erin decided he didn't want the team to see what they have in love

and the sad part was eric did next to jack shit during the late season run

[red]

The thing that I find odd is that the Packers have made zero changes to their coaching staff. You see teams that made the playoffs making changes to their staffs, but we are apparently happy with every coaches performance and see no need to make changes.

This makes me start to question MLF and his leadership as the head coach.

what do you expect from a head coach in his 20's or whatever he is

you need a GM or president with balls to tell him he has to make a change

[run pMc]

what do you expect from a head coach in his 20's or whatever he is

you need a GM or president with balls to tell him he has to make a change

MLF reports to Murphy, not Gute... so that's on Murphy. I got the sense that Gute is disappointed with Barry but can't really say/do much.
I also get the sense that MLF has been frustrated with Barry at times but it's his pick and he's going to be loyal to his guy. Inheriting Pettine gave him some rope but MLF's picks at ST coach with Drayton and DC with Barry have not been good.

[Fritz]

MLF reports to Murphy, not Gute... so that's on Murphy. I got the sense that Gute is disappointed with Barry but can't really say/do much.
I also get the sense that MLF has been frustrated with Barry at times but it's his pick and he's going to be loyal to his guy. Inheriting Pettine gave him some rope but MLF's picks at ST coach with Drayton and DC with Barry have not been good.

This is a good point. Now, his current OC was a surprisingly good hire - as the OL coach. But he's an example of the Peter Principle - he's risen to his level of incompetence. Or so it would seem.

Next year is a big year for The Flower - no matter who's quarterbacking. He could be one of those coaches who looks like Charles Atlas but has the staying power of a gnat. Interesting test of his abilities, this coming year.

[call_me_ishmael]

Cap up 20M next year. Nice jump. Making those big QB contracts look more reasonable after the cap going up 20% in two years.

[Fritz]

So can they afford to give Gary the big contract he'll be looking for?

I still say, use that extra room to cushion the blow from the Rodgers cap hit after you trade his passive-aggressive ass to wherever he's willing to go.

[call_me_ishmael]

Cap is probably gonna go up another 20M next year if not more. Saul goodman.

They'll resign Gary. I am not as high on him as some peeps. I hope he can become a superstar. Right now I fear he's gonna get a superstar contract and just not be that.

[run pMc]

Cap is probably gonna go up another 20M next year if not more. Saul goodman.

They'll resign Gary. I am not as high on him as some peeps. I hope he can become a superstar. Right now I fear he's gonna get a superstar contract and just not be that.

He'd get a lot on the FA market if they don't extend him. GB's pass rush was actually much worse without him.

[Fritz]

Cap is probably gonna go up another 20M next year if not more. Saul goodman.

They'll resign Gary. I am not as high on him as some peeps. I hope he can become a superstar. Right now I fear he's gonna get a superstar contract and just not be that.

For the kind of money he's going to get, you'd like to see him set an edge much better than he does. He's like Z Smith that way.

[bobblehead]

For the kind of money he's going to get, you'd like to see him set an edge much better than he does. He's like Z Smith that way.

I disagree. One of the things that has impressed me has been his ability to set an edge. I think he has become a top 5 well rounded "big edge".

[Joemailman]

I disagree. One of the things that has impressed me has been his ability to set an edge. I think he has become a top 5 well rounded "big edge".

He has the ability to set the edge. But this year, like Z, he wasn't always where he was supposed to be on run plays.

[run pMc]

Agree he can set the edge, it's a matter of doing it consistently. There were times both he and Preston sold out on the pass rush and guessed wrong, letting someone run right through the area they should have been.
That's partly coaching and partly player execution. I'd like to see a little more discipline by the defense -- there was too much freelancing, bad communication, and penalties.

Gary's gotten better at edge-setting, but I don't think it will impact his ability to get a big contract. He's a crazy athlete who can rush the passer. Now I don't think he's worth Top 5 money, but he's worth Top 10 money given his age, production, and work ethic.

[Fritz]

Agree he can set the edge, it's a matter of doing it consistently. There were times both he and Preston sold out on the pass rush and guessed wrong, letting someone run right through the area they should have been.
That's partly coaching and partly player execution. I'd like to see a little more discipline by the defense -- there was too much freelancing, bad communication, and penalties.

Gary's gotten better at edge-setting, but I don't think it will impact his ability to get a big contract. He's a crazy athlete who can rush the passer. Now I don't think he's worth Top 5 money, but he's worth Top 10 money given his age, production, and work ethic.

So does Harvey Korman:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRzkgExmsR4

[Fritz]

Wow. Who knew that Harvey Korman, in a movie rated PG, would be age-restricted by YouTube? Wow.

[run pMc]

Kids these days just don't understand humor.

[run pMc]

On a serious note, the weird penalties, especially on defense, tell me there's a lack of discipline. Rasul walking up on that FG and then retaliating & Quay getting ejected in Week 18, Quay two other times (BUF, and MIN games) as well. Not playing your called coverage right, poor run defense fits, keeping Savage & Lowry out there when struggling. Don't feel like there's enough accountability either. I put that on the coaches as much as on the players.

Margin for error is small -- look at what the penalty on Ossai meant for CIN. I don't feel like this team is sharp enough to avoid those or overcome them. Maybe they come back in 2023 with better discipline, poise, and tackling, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Deputy Nutz]

How do you know that the Edges where actually the Force player or the Edge setter on certain plays? They could be playing a spill technique or there could have been a gap exchange going on with the edge and possibly the LB or even the safety. Roles and jobs responsibilities change based on play calls and offensive formation.

[Fritz]

How do you know that the Edges where actually the Force player or the Edge setter on certain plays? They could be playing a spill technique or there could have been a gap exchange going on with the edge and possibly the LB or even the safety. Roles and jobs responsibilities change based on play calls and offensive formation.

Geezuz, Nutz, you remind me of Patler here, trying to inject a knowledgeable post that asks people to consider the reality of the situation.

What the hell is wrong with you? If I say Gary sucks at setting an edge, then it must be true, because I think it's true.

You and your damn facts.

[texaspackerbacker]

Gary sets the edge fine a lot of times. When he doesn't, it's a matter of scheme to go all out on pass rush with somebody else responsible for the edge. I think Z. Smith got burned a lot more often than Gary on the edge, maybe because he freelanced sometimes when he shouldn't have. Ultimately, it probably comes back to Barry in almost all cases.

[Tony Oday]

Sign Gary to a contract, get a TE in FA like Evan Engram, Add a WR like Jakobi Meyers, DT in the vein of Rankins. Lets go all the hell in, restructure everyone and get ready for cap hell in three years :)

[run pMc]

How do you know that the Edges where actually the Force player or the Edge setter on certain plays? They could be playing a spill technique or there could have been a gap exchange going on with the edge and possibly the LB or even the safety. Roles and jobs responsibilities change based on play calls and offensive formation.

Fair question. There were numerous instances of Gary rushing upfield and the offense just running right at the vacated area. Maybe there's supposed to be someone filling in or rotating and they are either blocked or not executing. Maybe it's a shitty play call by the DC. It's happened enough with Gary where it would be quite the coincidence if that were the case.

The regression of Campbell and Walker being a rookie certainly contributed to run issues. There were a lot more missed tackles this year which is a problem -- a defense that can prevent yards after contact is more likely to force a punt and get off the field.

[bobblehead]

How do you know that the Edges where actually the Force player or the Edge setter on certain plays? They could be playing a spill technique or there could have been a gap exchange going on with the edge and possibly the LB or even the safety. Roles and jobs responsibilities change based on play calls and offensive formation.

Agree, we can't always know. But sometimes I can watch a play unfold and see what a player is trying to accomplish to understand his responsibility on a given play. Once upon a time I said my big fear was that Gary would be really good at whatever he was told to do, but not be able to transition (for instance, setting the edge, but then pushing to a rush when the QB dropped back). He is actually better at it than I ever thought he would be. I think he is a fantastic player. Better than I dreamed him becoming. I also have always been a huge Mike White fan for developing 3-4 OLB. We missed him last year already.

[Fritz]

So if this is the list of "his guys" that Favre - err, Rodgers - wants back, which ones are most important to him, and which would he be willing to play without? (I'm not including Bakhtieri because he's under contract and I'm pretty sure the Packers are bringing him back no matter who the QB is going to be):

Tonyan
Lewis
Lazard
Cobb

Here's what Rodgers said to McAfee a few weeks ago:

“This game is about relationships,” Rodgers said. “It’s about the guys you rely on, even if they don’t show up huge in the stat book. A guy like Marcedes Lewis, he’s an important cog in the wheel of the locker room and the momentum of the team. That’s a guy I want to finish my career with, you know? If I’m playing, I want that guy next to me. I want the Randall Cobbs of the world, if he wants to keep playing, in my locker room. Guys you can win with. Allen Lazard, Bobby Tonyan..."

So of those four, who are the Packers most and least interested in retaining? Your guesses and thoughts?

[Joemailman]

Lazard the most. Cobb the least.

[sharpe1027]

Lazard the most. Cobb the least.

This, but none are critical.

Rodgers can retire and apply for a GM position somewhere. Otherwise, stop adding to the media drama.

[Fritz]

I wouldn't mind seeing Tonyan back on a cheap deal - does he need to sign one more "prove it" contract, or has he done enough that some team is willing to invest more in him than the Packers would be?

I love Mercedes Lewis. I think there's always room for a guy like him in any locker room.

Alan Lazard is very good in his role, but I don't think that role - the third receiver, the great run blocker - is worth a big contract.

Cobb does have utility as that third-down guy, but I don't think the Packers want him back, and I can understand why.

[sharpe1027]

The answer to this question obviously changes depending on the contracts needed to keep them. I wouldn't pay much for any of them.

[Bretsky]

So if this is the list of "his guys" that Favre - err, Rodgers - wants back, which ones are most important to him, and which would he be willing to play without? (I'm not including Bakhtieri because he's under contract and I'm pretty sure the Packers are bringing him back no matter who the QB is going to be):

Tonyan
Lewis
Lazard
Cobb

Here's what Rodgers said to McAfee a few weeks ago:

“This game is about relationships,” Rodgers said. “It’s about the guys you rely on, even if they don’t show up huge in the stat book. A guy like Marcedes Lewis, he’s an important cog in the wheel of the locker room and the momentum of the team. That’s a guy I want to finish my career with, you know? If I’m playing, I want that guy next to me. I want the Randall Cobbs of the world, if he wants to keep playing, in my locker room. Guys you can win with. Allen Lazard, Bobby Tonyan..."

So of those four, who are the Packers most and least interested in retaining? Your guesses and thoughts?


First off, you explain to Sharon that we are not longer going to choose his "relationships" over the best interest of the Packers

COBB............NO
Tonya...........YES if on the Cheap (which is likely)
LEWIS...........UNLIKELY
LIZARD.........ONLY if it's cost effective. Some think he's getting north of 10 MIL...HARD NO then

[texaspackerbacker]

Cobb has, I think, a contract for $6 or 7 million. He needs to get cut, obviously, BUT to then re-sign him for the vet minimum or at most maybe $1 million or so, that makes sense - he's plenty good enough even at his age to be a 5th or 6th WR and back up kick returner.

Lazard, I say again, IMO will not get the big money from other teams some think. I think he stays with the Packers for maybe $5-7 million with a cap friendly contract.

No reason to think Lewis won't stay for the same million or so, especially if Rodgers is still the QB.

Tonyan will be back. Whether they sign him long term or just "prove it" depends on the medical assessment. Hopefully that is a positive.

We still could use a high round TE and a mid-round WR.

[run pMc]

The answer to this question obviously changes depending on the contracts needed to keep them. I wouldn't pay much for any of them.

Lazard is going to get money. The pundits say it's a terrible WR FA crop. I haven't looked real closely, but from what I saw they appeared mostly correct. Caveat would be some team cuts someone (e.g., Brandin Cooks) under contract, but there's more demand than supply. Considering Christian Kirk got something like 16-17M a year and MVS got 10M, what do you think Lazard is going to get? I love Lazard but he's a WR3 who blocks really well, but that's not worth 8M+ a year. Not when you're over the cap by $20M and have to restructure Aaron Jones.

[run pMc]

Cobb has, I think, a contract for $6 or 7 million.

Cobb's contract was for that, but they redid it by adding void years. So he's a FA who will be counting against the cap in future years. He's not worth bringing back unless it's as you say -- for a vet minimum as your emergency WR6 type. He can field punts but aside from that doesn't give you much else. I could see them easily going with a rookie R7 WR pick who can return punts and play more teams instead. Cheaper and more upside, and less likely to get injured. Love Cobb but he can't stay healthy.

Agree they could stand to draft a TE and another WR.

[sharpe1027]

There's a pretty good argument that Cobb looked better than he is because Rodgers targeted him because of his relationship and trust.With a neutral QB, I suspect Cobb would have been targeted much less.

I can't prove this, but there's enough tape on Rodgers overlooking wide open WRs last.year to make it plausible.

[Bretsky]

Is it in our best interest to bring back the cronies as opposed for looking for youth with upside, OR are those who advocate it trying to talk themselves into the logic just to get Sharon back ?

If Love was our QB, would you viewpoints change ?

I am fine with Lazard for 5 MIL (but no more) and Tonyan for a couple Mil. Pass on the others

[Joemailman]

Lazard is worth more than 5 million, but probably not worth what he will get. Tonyan is worth bringing back. It will take a bit more than 2 million. I'm not totally opposed to bringing Cobb back, especially if Love is the QB. An inexperienced QB could use at least 1 savvy vet WR, and it looks like it won't be Lazard. If Rodgers is the QB, I'm not sure I want Cobb back, because Rodgers preference will be to go to Cobb instead of developing the young guys. I wouldn't mind bringing Lewis back no matter who the QB is, although I'm not sure he's worth the 4 million they've been paying him.

[call_me_ishmael]

Is JIMMY getting the CB job or what Bretsky?

[Joemailman]

Do people in Wisconsin overrate Leonhard's status? Doesn't seem like you hear any news in relation to Leonhard except from Packer fans.

[Fritz]

Is JIMMY getting the CB job or what Bretsky?

I thought he was a safety.

[run pMc]

He was a safety, and a good one. Was basically the field general for the NYJ Rex Ryan defenses that got them to the playoffs during the brief Sanchize era. Vexed Brady, even.

I think he's probably taking the year off, he's getting paid by the Badgers (and its students and boosters) to do nothing, and all the college coaching posts are about taken. They are deep into recruiting and planning spring practices; he should have been hired by now.

There's other considerations: why uproot your family to take a pro coaching position for a year or two for 500K when you could get paid millions to build and run your own college program for a decade somewhere? I'm sure he has some interest from pro teams, but not to the Packers as a secondary coach. He'd want a higher position than that, especially since they offered him the DC job previously. Finally, I don't know if his philosophies jive with Barry's.

Is he overrated because of being in the backyard? Possibly. He has run some good defenses, but I don't think it's anything revolutionary, nor would I think he gets that much more rope than other recent DC's who have turned into punching bags (Capers, Pettine, Barry) by the fans.

[Bretsky]

Is JIMMY getting the CB job or what Bretsky?



Highly unlikely IMO that Jimmy comes to GB
Jimmy got a pretty nice deal from UW--Jimmy's getting paid $1,000,000 the upcoming year as kind of a severance/good soldier deal; so Jimmy's going to be selctive
I've never heard any whispers about Jimmy wanting to be the CB coach in GB; I have heard whispers that a couple major colleges are offering him DC positions and he's considering them
I'd be surprised if Jimmy took a job under Joekster Barry who runs a very very different defense than Jimmy would run

I would not be surprised if Jimmy took a year off, or ended up as a DC at a major college, or even in the NFL.

But I do think Jimmy's going to be selctive given that he can take the year off and chillax if he wants to

[Bretsky]

Do people in Wisconsin overrate Leonhard's status? Doesn't seem like you hear any news in relation to Leonhard except from Packer fans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur0g-R7ZODY

[call_me_ishmael]

I was thinking DB coaching gig could give him a year to learn and get comfy with MILF before taking the DC job next year. I can't imagine Barry lasts beyond one more year given his awful track record.

If the Packers roll with Love, I kinda hope they bring in Hendon Henderson in the 2nd. It sounds like scouts absolutely love him and he could be the sleeper of the draft.

[Joemailman]

I was thinking DB coaching gig could give him a year to learn and get comfy with MILF before taking the DC job next year. I can't imagine Barry lasts beyond one more year given his awful track record.

If the Packers roll with Love, I kinda hope they bring in Hendon Henderson in the 2nd. It sounds like scouts absolutely love him and he could be the sleeper of the draft.

Hendon Hooker? 2nd might be a little early. But it's early. He'd be a developmental guy who ran a spread offense very different from NFL offenses.


Hooker operates in a vertical spread tempo offense with very little translatability to the next level. The receiver alignments are incredibly wide and the vertical passing concepts are mostly foreign to the NFL. The system feasts on manufactured spacing with very little progression-style passing. Hooker isn’t tasked with making many decisions and throws are often predetermined. Hooker hasn’t showcased himself as a quarterback who makes anticipatory throws with consistency. Further complicating his projection to the NFL is that he turns 25 in January of 2023 and tore his ACL late in the 2022 season and may need to take a full redshirt year in the NFL.

Hooker’s age, injury status, and adjustment to the next level make him a complicated evaluation. There is appeal for him as a developmental starter if everything comes together but he at least should provide value as a backup.

[run pMc]

Yeah, I've heard some people basically claim that Tennessee (and thus Hendon Hooker) don't really run a real offense. Makes me wonder about the two WRs (Wyatt and ???) and their learning curves. His age and injury history are concerns also. Day 3 developmental guy. Same with Michael Penix. BTW, both could sell a lot of jerseys lol

The COVID super senior stuff will work its way out soon, but when I see some of these 5th and 6th year seniors putting on highlights it doesn't wow me. They're basically 23 year olds playing against 19 year olds... of course they should dominate. Compare with Kenny Clark, who just finished his 7th season. Dude is 27 years old and seems like he's been seeing double teams playing for GB forever. Still needs help on the DL.

[Fritz]

Nobody really wants an aging Hooker.

[SudsMcBucky]

Nobody really wants an aging Hooker.

:rs:

[Joemailman]

Nobody really wants an aging Hooker.

Or just an average one.

https://www.footballcardgallery.com/1973_Topps/429/Fair_Hooker.jpg

[call_me_ishmael]

LOL!!!!!

[Fritz]

Maybe it just means the price isn't exorbitant.

[call_me_ishmael]

You think Rodgers is literally going to this dark room thing by himself? Do you think he has security detail?

It seems super risky to go somewhere where folks know you have nothing in the way of security, communication, etc.

Anyone just think it's a BS story and he's not actually doing that for four days? That seems like a gigantic waste of time.

[Fritz]

You think Rodgers is literally going to this dark room thing by himself? Do you think he has security detail?

It seems super risky to go somewhere where folks know you have nothing in the way of security, communication, etc.

Anyone just think it's a BS story and he's not actually doing that for four days? That seems like a gigantic waste of time.

Ish, that seems like EXACTLY the kind of thing Rodgers would do.

Not sure how the security part would work. Maybe the facility has private security all over the place. And someone to greet you after four days without light, to re-orient you. Bet that messes a person up.

[RashanGary]

You think Rodgers is literally going to this dark room thing by himself? Do you think he has security detail?

It seems super risky to go somewhere where folks know you have nothing in the way of security, communication, etc.

Anyone just think it's a BS story and he's not actually doing that for four days? That seems like a gigantic waste of time.

We should have a packerrats field trip and show up on day 2 of his darkness retreat to get his autograph!